Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Re: Need a battery (Doug Gray)
2. 01:40 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (JRWillJR@aol.com)
3. 04:04 AM - Re: 6A Tow Bar... (Lenleg@aol.com)
4. 04:28 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (Dana Overall)
5. 04:58 AM - Re: Using cork with Proseal - was "Fuel Lube" (lucky macy)
6. 05:35 AM - Re: 6A Tow Bar... (KAKlewin@aol.com)
7. 06:07 AM - Re: 6A Tow Bar... (Ollie Washburn)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (John Helms)
9. 06:24 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (Steven Eberhart)
10. 06:37 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (John Helms)
11. 06:48 AM - polishing (Frazier, Vincent A)
12. 07:17 AM - Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual (Richard V. Reynolds)
13. 08:30 AM - Fw: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (C. Rabaut)
14. 08:34 AM - Paint - Should I attempt this? (Pat Hatch)
15. 08:39 AM - Fw: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck? (C. Rabaut)
16. 08:44 AM - Re: Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual (Dave von Linsowe)
17. 09:04 AM - Re: Overpainting powder paint (Keith Vasey)
18. 09:10 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck? (John Helms)
19. 09:34 AM - Re: Barts Engines (Van Artsdalen, Scott)
20. 09:37 AM - > Need a Battery ( Long Boring ) (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
21. 09:37 AM - Re: Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual (Cy Galley)
22. 09:41 AM - Re: I'd like to fly in an RV somewhere around Seattle, WA (Rick Jory)
23. 09:46 AM - Re: Experimental Engines Vs. Certificated (Larry Pardue)
24. 10:30 AM - gas springs for tip-up canopy (SportAV8R@aol.com)
25. 11:03 AM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (JRWillJR@aol.com)
26. 11:12 AM - Heated seats (John Furey)
27. 11:24 AM - Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy (Cy Galley)
28. 11:42 AM - Grass Strip Construction (Ross Schlotthauer)
29. 11:43 AM - Fw: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (C. Rabaut)
30. 11:56 AM - Re: Experimental Engines-insurance update (JRWillJR@aol.com)
31. 12:09 PM - Re: Grass Strip Construction (SportAV8R@aol.com)
32. 12:35 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance (Scott Brumbelow)
33. 12:42 PM - Re: Grass Strip Construction (John Furey)
34. 12:45 PM - Re: Heated seats (Rick Jory)
35. 01:00 PM - RV6's for sale...? (Eric Whiteside)
36. 01:18 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & (kempthornes)
37. 01:21 PM - (Bill VonDane)
38. 01:37 PM - > Re: Grass Strip Construction (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
39. 01:44 PM - > Re: Heated Seats (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
40. 01:46 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (RV8ter@aol.com)
41. 01:46 PM - Re: upholster ? (kempthornes)
42. 02:00 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (John Helms)
43. 02:04 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur (Van Artsdalen, Scott)
44. 02:08 PM - Re: (Van Artsdalen, Scott)
45. 02:22 PM - Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy (LarryRobertHelming)
46. 02:34 PM - Re: Heated seats (Konrad Werner)
47. 02:52 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (Michael Sices)
48. 03:02 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & (Michael McGee)
49. 03:15 PM - Re: Heated seats (Cy Galley)
50. 03:36 PM - Engine's and insurance clarification (John Helms)
51. 03:42 PM - Re: Heated seats (Jim Jewell)
52. 03:43 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck? (WALTER KERR)
53. 03:55 PM - Re: Grass Strip Construction (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
54. 04:04 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (WALTER KERR)
55. 04:08 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck? (John Helms)
56. 04:17 PM - Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy (Jeff Point)
57. 04:26 PM - Using cork with Pro-Seal (Eustace Bowhay)
58. 04:33 PM - Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell (WALTER KERR)
59. 04:39 PM - Re: Engine's and insurance clarification (Jeff Point)
60. 04:41 PM - Re: Grass Strip Construction (Louis Willig)
61. 04:41 PM - Fw: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (C. Rabaut)
62. 04:48 PM - Fw: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance Rates (C. Rabaut)
63. 04:50 PM - Fw: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur ance Rates (C. Rabaut)
64. 04:53 PM - Another new builder (Roger Humphrey)
65. 05:03 PM - Re: Engine's and insurance clarification (John Helms)
66. 05:11 PM - Re: Grass Strip Construction (C J Heitman)
67. 05:12 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur (Van Artsdalen, Scott)
68. 05:26 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance (Charlie & Tupper England)
69. 05:30 PM - Re: Engine's and insurance clarification (Dave Bristol)
70. 05:32 PM - Re: upholster ? (Lenleg@aol.com)
71. 05:54 PM - Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy (Mark Phillips)
72. 06:24 PM - RV8 upholster (Ski2001a@aol.com)
73. 06:29 PM - Re: Engine's and insurance clarification (Jeff Point)
74. 06:45 PM - Re: Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell (Richard Dudley)
75. 06:46 PM - RV-3 condition inspection checklist (Randy Compton)
76. 06:47 PM - Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy (Dan Checkoway)
77. 06:57 PM - Re: Heated seats (Larry Bowen)
78. 07:05 PM - Re: Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell (RV8ter@aol.com)
79. 07:11 PM - Moving (RVPilot4@webtv.net (BOBE.))
80. 07:11 PM - >Re: Experimental engines VS. Certificated engines & Insurance. (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
81. 07:18 PM - Re: Another new builder (Jeff & Leslie)
82. 07:22 PM - Painting RV-6 thread (David Carter)
83. 07:26 PM - Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance (Sam Buchanan)
84. 07:37 PM - Re: Heated seats (Charlie Kuss)
85. 07:58 PM - Vertical Stab (Wier, Daniel C.)
86. 08:28 PM - Re: Heated seats (Stan Blanton)
87. 08:34 PM - Re: Heated seats (Stan Blanton)
88. 08:47 PM - Re: Heated seats (Larry Bowen)
89. 09:05 PM - Re: Engine's and insurance clarification (kempthornes)
90. 09:09 PM - Re: Vertical Stab (kempthornes)
91. 10:17 PM - Wing tip strobes. (Rob W M Shipley)
92. 10:36 PM - Re: Engine's and insurance clarification (Rob Prior)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Need a battery |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Apologies to Henry Hore for missing his original point, Henry of course
was exactly correct... "measure the voltage drop on both positive and
negative terminal wiring".
Doug Gray
(too much skim reading the rv-list posts...)
do not archive
>
> How about measuring voltage across the starter itself, ie the voltage
> between the starter case (ground at the starter) and the starter
> terminal that way you will also include any drop in the ground return path.
>
> Regarding the Concorde specs, perhaps I missed this but is the internal
> resistance given for these batteries?
>
> Doug Gray
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
I spoke to Falcon again today and was told the same thing, they can insure
the Aerosport Power engine at the same rates as a Lycoming. I specifically
told him the engine was not a Lycoming, and I was told that was understood.
Here is the deal with me. They will insure it or I will do without, at this
point I am tired of being lied to by so many people in insurance. Since in
more than 3,000 hours of flying I have never made a claim so I think I will
just self insure or get non flight coverage. I will not carry passengers
other than my wife in that case if it turns out that way. I think these
insurance companies are misrepresenting themselves and the facts--NOT ME. I
cannot imagine why they are lying but you have me convinced the whole
industry is a bunch of "Big Fat Liars."
Further, not to speak for Aerosport but their engines are likely a mix of
parts whether you get one "re"built on a used Lycoming case or a new Superior
or ECi case. I chose to get all new parts. What if you bought an engine run
out, it had a cracked case and replaced the case with a Superior PMA case?
What if it has Lycoming pistons, ECi crank and Titan cylinders with Airflow
Fuel Injection, Lightspeed ignition, with automobile spark plugs and a mix
and match sump and accessory case????? The insurance companies that
apparently have been lying to me/us are going to have to decide if a data
plate is their only criteria, if so many of us will be without insurance and
since there is some question as to if they would pay out maybe it is best to
do without. If a RV crashes and the investigation reveals that the Lycoming
engine data plate was on a mix and match engine what will happen, what if the
engine still meets it's TC requirements, which is conceivable since the parts
are PMA, what if the non-Lycoming engine meets the TC requirements for an
equivalent Lycoming but without Lycoming data plate? If the requirment is to
maintain "certified" status per the TC for that engine (A1B, E2D etc) then
there are an awfull lot of defacto uninsured RVs out there--like I bet over
half the fleet or more. What about a certified engine with high compression
pistons, the data plate says one thing and the engine is yet another? Strange
I was able to get insurance for my Rotax powered Kitfox and pretty darn cheap
to for 25,0000 hull and liability and all that garbage etc. Maybe they lied
then too. It started out about 1,200 a year and dropped over the course of
several years I think to about 900, those numbers may not be exact but does
it even matter if they will not payout on a claim. Do Not Archive. JR
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 6A Tow Bar... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
Kurt:
I bought the Deluxe Cessna Tow Bar from Sportys that I saw suggested on the
list. Well, it worked great until I put on the wheelpants. It no longer
works. It will not expand around the pant.
I also bought a light aluminum one from a guy in California that also does
not fit now that the pants are on. I will also have to modify it.
You are right in being cautious. Not everything posted on the list is gospel
!!!
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL
Greensboro, N.C.
51 hours !!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Boy John, you sure have a lot of generic questions out there now.
Just some rambling thoughts. If I buy a "certified Lyc", the minute "I"
install it in my RV is it now a non certified Lyc and no longer eligible for
insurance? The minute "I" decide to put on a non certified oil filter
housing, is the engine now non certified and no longer eligible? The minute
"I" pull the jugs and routinely hone the valve seats, is the engine now non
certified and no longer eligible?
Another thought, if I do have an A&P install that oil filter bracket, don't
I have to have an IA sign off my annual for that one part if I want to keep
it certified and under insurance??
My Bonanza is back in annual, I am at the mercy of the A&P/IA. If a cyl is
not within 10% of the compression of the other 5 or if all cyls are a couple
pounds above the minumum and he says I have to pull the engine for 20K, I'm
screwed. I love my Bonanza and am always asked, "why are you selling that
airplane", my reply is pointing at the FBO. I've had to wait 5-6 weeks for
a routine 3K annual, screw that!! I am able and willing to ALL the work on
my RV, but I have worked too hard not to carry insurance to cover myself and
family.
The repairman certificate covers the airframe but I want to do the engine
work also. If I have to pay $600 more per year for insurance, I figure I
can save that much, and remain safe, by doing A&P/IA work myself.
I really would like for anyone to chime in on my questions.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Using cork with Proseal - was "Fuel Lube" |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
you can back a screw out of a nut plate if you put sealant on the threads
like it was locktite inside the nutplate? I'll bet that's a fun job.
>From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh@attbi.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Using cork with Proseal - was "Fuel Lube"
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:54:39 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Henderson" <randallh@attbi.com>
>
>[snip]
> > I took the precaution of putting caps on all the nut-plates, sealed
> > with proseal, to prevent fuel weeping down the screw threads.
>[...]
>
>Good idea but not really needed. Others have reported that they used sealed
>nutplates which also seem like a good idea but IMHO not worth bothering
>with. Proseal works fine on its own -- it gets in the threads when you put
>the screws in, and if you also put some around the hole before putting the
>screws in, it'll seal the heads as well. Still concerned? Smear it over the
>screw heads.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~450 hrs)
>Portland, OR
>www.vanshomewing.org
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 6A Tow Bar... |
--> RV-List message posted by: KAKlewin@aol.com
Thanks Craig...
Kurt
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 6A Tow Bar... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator@msn.com>
Len----I just sent Kurt pictures of a slightly modified cessna type tow bar that
does work with wheel pant.
Ollie---6A Central Fl.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenleg@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A Tow Bar...
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
Kurt:
I bought the Deluxe Cessna Tow Bar from Sportys that I saw suggested on the
list. Well, it worked great until I put on the wheelpants. It no longer
works. It will not expand around the pant.
I also bought a light aluminum one from a guy in California that also does
not fit now that the pants are on. I will also have to modify it.
You are right in being cautious. Not everything posted on the list is gospel
!!!
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL
Greensboro, N.C.
51 hours !!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Yes, it would, but like you, I find that highly unlikely given his OEM
agreement with them.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
John,
This may be a silly question, but what if Van came out and "endorsed"
the XP-360 for RVs? With the ads he and Lycoming run that may not be
likely, but if he did, would it negate the problem you described below?
I and many others do appreciate the time you take to straighten us out
on these things.
Jeff Point
John Helms wrote:
>Basically, the application's question of "Does the airplane have any
>modifications not provided by the manufacturer?" or something to that
effect
>would come to be at issue. The insurance companies consider Van's Aircraft
>to be the manufacturer (I know many of you consider yourselves to be such,
>but that is not important.) What is important is what could be
>supported/proven in court. (because it could get to that point if they
were
>to deny a claim.)
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
I must be missing something here. The following is a direct quote from
Mattituck's web site:
"This engine has undergone a rigorous testing schedule, with engine
operation manual and performance data completed. By the time engines
were available in April, all of the XP-360 engine parts have been
FAA-PMA approved"
I read this to mean that every component in a Mattituck assembled
Superior XP-360 engine is FAA-PMA approved for use in a certified
Lycoming engine.
I understand that as an Experimental aircraft builder, with the
repairman's certificate, I can assemble my engine and sign off the work.
I can also legally affirm that every component in the engine is
FAA-PMA approved for use in certified Lycoming engines. Seems to me if
it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and the FAA agrees that every
component is certified for use in a duck..............
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A with future duck power
Dana Overall wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Boy John, you sure have a lot of generic questions out there now.
>
> Just some rambling thoughts. If I buy a "certified Lyc", the minute "I"
> install it in my RV is it now a non certified Lyc and no longer eligible for
> insurance? The minute "I" decide to put on a non certified oil filter
> housing, is the engine now non certified and no longer eligible? The minute
> "I" pull the jugs and routinely hone the valve seats, is the engine now non
> certified and no longer eligible?
>
> Another thought, if I do have an A&P install that oil filter bracket, don't
> I have to have an IA sign off my annual for that one part if I want to keep
> it certified and under insurance??
>
> My Bonanza is back in annual, I am at the mercy of the A&P/IA. If a cyl is
> not within 10% of the compression of the other 5 or if all cyls are a couple
> pounds above the minumum and he says I have to pull the engine for 20K, I'm
> screwed. I love my Bonanza and am always asked, "why are you selling that
> airplane", my reply is pointing at the FBO. I've had to wait 5-6 weeks for
> a routine 3K annual, screw that!! I am able and willing to ALL the work on
> my RV, but I have worked too hard not to carry insurance to cover myself and
> family.
>
> The repairman certificate covers the airframe but I want to do the engine
> work also. If I have to pay $600 more per year for insurance, I figure I
> can save that much, and remain safe, by doing A&P/IA work myself.
>
> I really would like for anyone to chime in on my questions.
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Sam you have touched on many subjects. First of all, I would like to
emphasize that for the most part (except AVEMCO and their sister company US
Specialty), the companies that are left today do not look for reasons to
deny coverage (thus my mentioning the Chevy powered RV that Phoenix paid a
total loss on). One of my main points in the many emails is that when you
are purchasing insurance you and the insurance company are entering into a
contract. You have provided them information, and they are providing you
with the promise of the coverages you and they have agreed upon. The
information you have provided to them is used by them to evaluate if they
want to insure your risk, and if so, how much to charge you. If that
information is not accurate, or disclosed fully, then the claims process (if
you have one) could be difficult. And worst case it could result in a
denial of coverage.
Nobody wants that.
I am very aware of the Lycoming engine changes that many people make. This
is one of my main arguments as far as getting engines like Superior XP-360s
included. I think that those are better engines than a used core that's
been put together by a non-A+P (no offense intended to you non-A+P's out
there). It is just my feeling.
As far as the electronic ignitions, etc. I would recommend that you take a
few moments and list those modifications on any insurance application that
you make (you'll find the modification question in the detailed questions on
most aviation insurance applications.... I'm talking about the actual paper
application that you get in the mail from the agent after binding coverage,
not something you fill out online to apply for a quote.) You ask for a set
of standards. Impossible. You all think the rates are too high now. How
much would they have to charge to have someone do that originally, and keep
track of changes (remember RV's aren't the only homebuilt, and also there
are about 500,000 production planes out there too.... they'd go out of
business trying to do that.) They rely upon you to tell them what you've
done that varies from the plans, and allow them to evaluate it on a case by
case basis.
In general, the companies aren't going to have a problem with stuff like the
electronic ignition systems and the like. But won't it be a comforting
feeling knowing that you've been as upfront as possible with them, and you
know that any claim you might have is going to go very smoothly?
Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you read:
http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of the
manufacterer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how Van has
indicated in the plans.
I hope I hit all the points you asked about. I am sure we have opened a can
of very large worms yesterday that will take hours to close.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
John, I was following your logic for a while but it is now getting
somewhat hazy. :-)
If I understand your position (and I suppose the position of insurance
companies if you have accurately reflected their stance on this subject)
a Lycoming engine is only a Lycoming (and therefore insurable) if the
data plate on the engine states Lycoming as the manufacturer.
You may not be aware of this, but many, many "Lycoming" engines in RVs
have no data plate, or a plate that has the aircraft builder's name as
the manufacturer. This is because the FARs do not require the "Lycoming"
plate on the engines of experimental aircraft, and many experimental
"Lycoming" engines are built out of a mixture of parts off the shelf of
a homebuilder or engine rebuilder wherein traceability or logability of
the components is impossible. If tracibilty of the components of the
engine is impossible, and a data plate is not present, the FAA does not
recognize the engine as a Lycoming.
Are you stating that the RV builder who possessed such an engine in
his/her RV is in danger of non-payment should a claim arise? If the
answer is yes, then just how is a "Lycoming" engine defined? Is it one
that has a data plate and valid logs traceable back to the factory, in
other words, a "certificated" engine? Or, is it one that merely "looks"
like a certificated Lycoming engine?
And if merely looking like a certificated engine is sufficient, then
what is the difference in the data-plateless engine I build in my
carport (similar to the hundreds of engines currently in RVs) and the
hundreds of engines built by Aerosport which has a non-Lycoming
dataplate?
If indeed this is the angle the insurance companies are taking, this is
a can of worms the bottom of which we will never find! You are now
placing RV builders in the position of stating that their engine must
meet a "standard", and we don't even know the parameters of the
standard!
What is the definition of "any major modifications to this aircraft
including alterations to powerplant or airframe that differs from the
original manufacture or design?" Does the inclusion of electronic
ignition which Lycoming has not blessed qualify as a "major
modification"? What about a fuel injection system such as the highly
popular Airflow Performance system?
Or......if Vans, who you say the insurance company considers as the
manufacturer, decides to install electronic ignitions, fuel injection
systems, four into two exhaust systems, high compression pistons, and a
different cam profile in their demonstrator planes, does that then clear
us for using the same or similar components in our planes with full
insurance coverage?
Does Vans know they are the manufacturer of our planes and are now
liable for any damage we manage to inflict on our passengers or other
people's property?
John, I appreciate your input on this subject. I suspect the
experimental community has moved much faster and farther toward
custom-built "Lycoming" engines than you and the insurance industry
realize. If the industry is now qualifying just what is and what isn't
an insurable Lycoming engine.........we need to see a WRITTEN set of
standards!
Respectfully,
Sam Buchanan
==================================
Larry Pardue wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@carlsbad.net>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
> >
> > Larry,
> >
> > Scott is an O.K agent, but AIG now has that wording on their online
> > applications (only been on their for a few months to combat an
> unscrupulous
> > agent that was getting quotes as RV-4's that were actually Harmon
> Rockets.)
> >
> > But, I would think twice about renewing that with AIG without expressly
> > having Scott tell them about the engine and get their o.k.
> >
>
> I guess I don't understand this. Each year I am sent a questionaire that
> takes about 2 hours to fill out. It delves into my entire aviation
history.
> How many hours multiengine. How many hours glider. How many hours last
six
> months. How many total hours. How many airframe hours on my airplane?
How
> many engine hours on the Aerosport Power O-360 (listed as such)? How many
> hours tailwheel? This is not enough? It seems to me that you are saying
I
> am supposed to deal with all the insurance companies my agent may use.
How
> am I supposed to even know who they even are?
>
> Due dilligence requires I ask my agent, who has forgotten in the last 20
> minutes more than I have ever known about insurance in my entire 53 years
to
> check with AIG? Who is AIG? Why am I paying my agent a commission if I
am
> supposed to know more than him? All the information is well documented.
I
> know he knows it because it comes back to me every year and if I should
ever
> have a claim it better be paid because I am abiding by the contract.
>
> I am completely honest on everything I tell my agent, I expect he is the
> same with the companies he deals with. I do not think I am negligent!
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
So easy. No special equipment or skill required.
Get a 2" diameter (or whatever dia. you want) piece of scotchbrite pad, find a
suitable device to chuck it up in your drill press (or milling machine or whatever).
A quick change disk holder (p.28 of the Wicks catalog) works great. Layout
a grid to follow or just freehand it. All you need to do is touch the scotchbrite
to the workpiece for a few seconds and move on.
A scotchbrite pad makes a nicer finish than the surfacing conditioning discs mentioned
by another lister. The softer pad will conform to the workpiece a bit
easier, IMHO.
Then if you really want a finish on your aluminum parts that will "WOW!" the crowds,
get an anodizing kit from www.caswellplating.com and anodize your parts.
Dye them to whatever color you like. Now you've got something.
Vince Frazier
1946 Stinson, NC97535, flying
F-1H Rocket, "Six Shooter", N540VF reserved,
canopy installation stage
<http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
In the 2003 FAR/AIM, Para 91.9 speaks to a "Civil Aircraft Flight
Manual"
Is the Aircraft Flight Manual the new name for the Pilot Operating
Handbook?
Where are detailed requirements for the contents of the Aircraft Flight
Manual?
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, doing paperwork while it's too
cold (60F) to work in hangar ;)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Way valid points.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JRWillJR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>
> I spoke to Falcon again today and was told the same thing, they can insure
> the Aerosport Power engine at the same rates as a Lycoming. I specifically
> told him the engine was not a Lycoming, and I was told that was
understood.
> Here is the deal with me. They will insure it or I will do without, at
this
> point I am tired of being lied to by so many people in insurance. Since in
> more than 3,000 hours of flying I have never made a claim so I think I
will
> just self insure or get non flight coverage. I will not carry passengers
> other than my wife in that case if it turns out that way. I think these
> insurance companies are misrepresenting themselves and the facts--NOT ME.
I
> cannot imagine why they are lying but you have me convinced the whole
> industry is a bunch of "Big Fat Liars."
> Further, not to speak for Aerosport but their engines are likely a mix of
> parts whether you get one "re"built on a used Lycoming case or a new
Superior
> or ECi case. I chose to get all new parts. What if you bought an engine
run
> out, it had a cracked case and replaced the case with a Superior PMA case?
> What if it has Lycoming pistons, ECi crank and Titan cylinders with
Airflow
> Fuel Injection, Lightspeed ignition, with automobile spark plugs and a
mix
> and match sump and accessory case????? The insurance companies that
> apparently have been lying to me/us are going to have to decide if a data
> plate is their only criteria, if so many of us will be without insurance
and
> since there is some question as to if they would pay out maybe it is best
to
> do without. If a RV crashes and the investigation reveals that the
Lycoming
> engine data plate was on a mix and match engine what will happen, what if
the
> engine still meets it's TC requirements, which is conceivable since the
parts
> are PMA, what if the non-Lycoming engine meets the TC requirements for an
> equivalent Lycoming but without Lycoming data plate? If the requirment is
to
> maintain "certified" status per the TC for that engine (A1B, E2D etc) then
> there are an awfull lot of defacto uninsured RVs out there--like I bet
over
> half the fleet or more. What about a certified engine with high
compression
> pistons, the data plate says one thing and the engine is yet another?
Strange
> I was able to get insurance for my Rotax powered Kitfox and pretty darn
cheap
> to for 25,0000 hull and liability and all that garbage etc. Maybe they
lied
> then too. It started out about 1,200 a year and dropped over the course of
> several years I think to about 900, those numbers may not be exact but
does
> it even matter if they will not payout on a claim. JR
Message 14
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| Subject: | Paint - Should I attempt this? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
For what it's worth, I posted a story on my web page detailing the saga of my RV-6
paint job. It is intended for those considering doing their own painting.
You may want to read this before making your decision. This is just one story,
so please don't base your decision solely on my experience! I recommend reading
Randy Levold's and Sam Buchanan's excellent sites for further research.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch
I will be glad to answer any questions that you may have after reading my account.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, N44PH, 40 hrs
O-360, Hartzell C/S
Vero Beach, FL
Message 15
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates..Is it a Duck?
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Yes, but the real question is...
Can the insurance companies take the $$$ you've been payin' for insurance
and use it to pay their Attorneys to fight you (so they don't have to pay
you on any claim), by saying that Duck isn't a Duck?
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
>
> I must be missing something here. The following is a direct quote from
> Mattituck's web site:
>
> "This engine has undergone a rigorous testing schedule, with engine
> operation manual and performance data completed. By the time engines
> were available in April, all of the XP-360 engine parts have been
> FAA-PMA approved"
>
> I read this to mean that every component in a Mattituck assembled
> Superior XP-360 engine is FAA-PMA approved for use in a certified
> Lycoming engine.
>
> I understand that as an Experimental aircraft builder, with the
> repairman's certificate, I can assemble my engine and sign off the work.
> I can also legally affirm that every component in the engine is
> FAA-PMA approved for use in certified Lycoming engines. Seems to me if
> it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and the FAA agrees that every
> component is certified for use in a duck..............
>
> Steve Eberhart
> RV-7A with future duck power
>
> Dana Overall wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Boy John, you sure have a lot of generic questions out there now.
> >
> > Just some rambling thoughts. If I buy a "certified Lyc", the minute "I"
> > install it in my RV is it now a non certified Lyc and no longer eligible
for
> > insurance? The minute "I" decide to put on a non certified oil filter
> > housing, is the engine now non certified and no longer eligible? The
minute
> > "I" pull the jugs and routinely hone the valve seats, is the engine now
non
> > certified and no longer eligible?
> >
> > Another thought, if I do have an A&P install that oil filter bracket,
don't
> > I have to have an IA sign off my annual for that one part if I want to
keep
> > it certified and under insurance??
> >
> > My Bonanza is back in annual, I am at the mercy of the A&P/IA. If a cyl
is
> > not within 10% of the compression of the other 5 or if all cyls are a
couple
> > pounds above the minumum and he says I have to pull the engine for 20K,
I'm
> > screwed. I love my Bonanza and am always asked, "why are you selling
that
> > airplane", my reply is pointing at the FBO. I've had to wait 5-6 weeks
for
> > a routine 3K annual, screw that!! I am able and willing to ALL the work
on
> > my RV, but I have worked too hard not to carry insurance to cover myself
and
> > family.
> >
> > The repairman certificate covers the airframe but I want to do the
engine
> > work also. If I have to pay $600 more per year for insurance, I figure
I
> > can save that much, and remain safe, by doing A&P/IA work myself.
> >
> > I really would like for anyone to chime in on my questions.
> >
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
I sure wish it was 60 F in my hangar, that would be a heat wave. I'm going
out to drain the fuel and pull the tanks. It's going to be a high of 15
today...
Dave
Michigan
>
> Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, doing paperwork while it's too
> cold (60F) to work in hangar ;)
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Overpainting powder paint |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Vasey" <keith@galvinflying.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Subject: Re: RV-List: Overpainting powder paint
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
I overpainted several powdercoated parts. Scotchbrite the heck out of it,
until when viewed at an angle with a bright light there is literally no
shine whatsoever to it, then paint. I did not prime, just painted. So far
it's holding up just fine, in fact as well as on any other surface.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 287.4 hrs
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Stewart" <davestewart@globalserve.net>
Subject: RV-List: Overpainting powder paint
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Stewart"
<davestewart@globalserve.net>
>
> I'm considering overpainting some of the (blindingly white) powdercoated
components, (gear mounts, maybe canopy frame), with Rustoleum "hammered" or
the like, to make them less obvious. I'd appreciate any comments on the
proper steps to prepare/paint the parts from anyone who's done this
successfully. Thanks.
> Dave (90252)
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates..Is it a Duck?
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Not if you've informed them about exactly what the "duck" is and they've
approved it ahead of time.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Subject: Fw: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck?
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Yes, but the real question is...
Can the insurance companies take the $$$ you've been payin' for insurance
and use it to pay their Attorneys to fight you (so they don't have to pay
you on any claim), by saying that Duck isn't a Duck?
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
>
> I must be missing something here. The following is a direct quote from
> Mattituck's web site:
>
> "This engine has undergone a rigorous testing schedule, with engine
> operation manual and performance data completed. By the time engines
> were available in April, all of the XP-360 engine parts have been
> FAA-PMA approved"
>
> I read this to mean that every component in a Mattituck assembled
> Superior XP-360 engine is FAA-PMA approved for use in a certified
> Lycoming engine.
>
> I understand that as an Experimental aircraft builder, with the
> repairman's certificate, I can assemble my engine and sign off the work.
> I can also legally affirm that every component in the engine is
> FAA-PMA approved for use in certified Lycoming engines. Seems to me if
> it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and the FAA agrees that every
> component is certified for use in a duck..............
>
> Steve Eberhart
> RV-7A with future duck power
>
> Dana Overall wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Boy John, you sure have a lot of generic questions out there now.
> >
> > Just some rambling thoughts. If I buy a "certified Lyc", the minute "I"
> > install it in my RV is it now a non certified Lyc and no longer eligible
for
> > insurance? The minute "I" decide to put on a non certified oil filter
> > housing, is the engine now non certified and no longer eligible? The
minute
> > "I" pull the jugs and routinely hone the valve seats, is the engine now
non
> > certified and no longer eligible?
> >
> > Another thought, if I do have an A&P install that oil filter bracket,
don't
> > I have to have an IA sign off my annual for that one part if I want to
keep
> > it certified and under insurance??
> >
> > My Bonanza is back in annual, I am at the mercy of the A&P/IA. If a cyl
is
> > not within 10% of the compression of the other 5 or if all cyls are a
couple
> > pounds above the minumum and he says I have to pull the engine for 20K,
I'm
> > screwed. I love my Bonanza and am always asked, "why are you selling
that
> > airplane", my reply is pointing at the FBO. I've had to wait 5-6 weeks
for
> > a routine 3K annual, screw that!! I am able and willing to ALL the work
on
> > my RV, but I have worked too hard not to carry insurance to cover myself
and
> > family.
> >
> > The repairman certificate covers the airframe but I want to do the
engine
> > work also. If I have to pay $600 more per year for insurance, I figure
I
> > can save that much, and remain safe, by doing A&P/IA work myself.
> >
> > I really would like for anyone to chime in on my questions.
> >
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts@unionsafe.com>
My shipping from Bart's facility was through Yellow Freight and was close to
the same amount Wayne paid.
-----Original Message-----
From: Konrad Werner [mailto:Connywerner@wans.net]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Barts Engines
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
Dear Wayne,
What shipping company was used for that incredibly low price? (You are
talking from Bart's facility in Canada all the way to Louisiana, right?)
Konrad
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dwpetrus@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Barts Engines
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
>
> I live in Louisiana and I was shocked that my total shipping cost on the
> 0-360a1a was only $195.
>
> Wayne Petrus
> RV8A flying
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | > Need a Battery ( Long Boring ) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Kyle ;
If you will go to Dan Checkoways Posting on Jan. 15 ,2003 you can see the
URL's for two places to get the Odyssey battery at a much lower price than
either of the Concordes.
I put the Odyssey 925 in my RV-4 ( 23 lbs.) and I FOR SURE have plenty of
reserve . I paid $105 - delivered with NO hazardous charges . As I said - I
put the Concorde in my old tractor. It is JUNK compared to the Odyssey. I
changed battery in my plane and nothing else , so I had a direct comparison.
do not archive , there is too much trash here already.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Be very careful. Open the hangar door to drain. Fumes are very explosive.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pilot Operating Handbook / Airplane Flight Manual
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
>
> I sure wish it was 60 F in my hangar, that would be a heat wave. I'm
going
> out to drain the fuel and pull the tanks. It's going to be a high of 15
> today...
>
> Dave
> Michigan
>
> >
> > Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, doing paperwork while it's too
> > cold (60F) to work in hangar ;)
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: I'd like to fly in an RV somewhere around Seattle, WA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" <rickjory@msn.com>
Another option is to hook up with Mike Seager in Vernonia (outside
Portland). He does transition training in both a 6 and 6A. Of course, you
pay for his time and the plane's time, but this will give you a chance to
fly as much as you'd like.
do not archive
Rick Jory RV8A . . . proud two-night patron of the Vernonia Inn
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr. Leathers <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: I'd like to fly in an RV somewhere around Seattle, WA
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> Josh,
> Let me know it you want to go to Pltd to visit Vans. I've been meaning to
do
> it myself. Maybe we can ride down together.
>
> DOC
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Siler" <joshs@ninatek.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: I'd like to fly in an RV somewhere around Seattle,
WA
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Joshua Siler" <joshs@ninatek.com>
> >
> > If you can't find a ride, just jump down to Van's in Portland. They give
> > first rides in the factory demonstrators there, and you can check out
> > the factory at the same time.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv7a
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: I'd like to fly in an RV somewhere around Seattle, WA
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: rv7a <rv7a@prosody.org>
> >
> >
> > I'm considering building an RV-7A.
> > I fly out of Boeing Field - got my PPL in November.
> >
> > I saw an RV flying out of 0S9 yesterday - cool.
> > I like what I see in the RVs.
> > But I don't want to commit without flying in one.
> >
> > Can any of you PNW RV flyers give me a ride?
> >
> > Please let me know.
> >
> > Thanks, Joe Edwards
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines Vs. Certificated |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@carlsbad.net>
>jhelms@i1.net
>
> Larry,
>
> Scott is an O.K agent, but AIG now has that wording on their online
> applications (only been on their for a few months to combat an
unscrupulous
> agent that was getting quotes as RV-4's that were actually Harmon
Rockets.)
>
> But, I would think twice about renewing that with AIG without expressly
> having Scott tell them about the engine and get their o.k.
>
I just found out, accidentally, that AIG, who my insurance is with, does
indeed know about my non-certified Aerosport Power engine. The full
coverage rate is very reasonable and actually went down almost $300 last
year.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | gas springs for tip-up canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Jeff posted this a while back:
>
> >> I contacted Vans about the struts. The bad news is, they don't know of
>> any local(autoparts) source. The good news is they agreed to send me a
>> replacementfor free. Based on the responses I got and the archives, these
>> struts seem tohave a high infant mortality rate, perhaps Vans got a bad
>> batch, or they havebeen sitting too long.Jeff PointThe bottom line is,
>> there isn't much of a price difference even if you couldfind them.Good
>> luck. If you do come up with a part number, let us know.Van's part number
>> is C-690 $$22.86
The price is now $25.00 in the web store, by the way.
For the second time, I have lost function in a gas spring on my 6A, this time
causing my one and only canopy stress crack to double in length (it's not
good when a tip-up unexpectedly shuts on its own!) The first time this
happened, Van replaced the barely one year old strut for free. I doubt I
could get away with that after five years. Before I order one from Van's, I
wanted to give the List one more shot, to see if anyone had located a
close-enough part in a local auto parts store since the date of this last
posting. Any takers?
Meanwhile, I shall try to find a local source for Weld On #3 solvent cement,
to avoid hazmat charges from A/C Spruce... (sigh)
Bill B
do not archive
if anyone has a source for the gas springs, we'll archive that, with various
search words: gas spring/shock/strut, etc.
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 1/21/2003 8:42:28 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net
writes:
> Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you read:
> http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of the
> manufacturer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how Van has
> indicated in the plans.
I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not the
manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
paperwork is the manufactuer.
I called Falcon again today. They again told me they could insure the
Aerosport engine. I told them about there being a discussion about insuring
these engines. I now think I know what is going on here. I mentioned a
company name--Falcon. Competing companies and representatives did not like
that.
So, if I purchase a scrap Lycoming that has been serving as boat anchor and
remove it's data plate and stick it on my Aerosport I guess everything will
be cool, I as an A&P will just write in the engine logbook, engine torn down
for overhaul R&R all parts, Test run OK. Works for me. JR
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
A few weeks back someone posted a note about seat pads that plug into the lighter
socket. Where can they be purchased?
Thanks,
John Furey
RV6A O-320 50hrs
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
The two Nationwide plastics Co. are Cope and Cadillac might try Yellow Pages
under Plastics Products and sheets and rods, tubes etc.
We have both in our 300,000 person area.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <SportAV8R@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: gas springs for tip-up canopy
> --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
> Jeff posted this a while back:
> >
> > >> I contacted Vans about the struts. The bad news is, they don't know
of
> >> any local(autoparts) source. The good news is they agreed to send me a
> >> replacementfor free. Based on the responses I got and the archives,
these
> >> struts seem tohave a high infant mortality rate, perhaps Vans got a bad
> >> batch, or they havebeen sitting too long.Jeff PointThe bottom line is,
> >> there isn't much of a price difference even if you couldfind them.Good
> >> luck. If you do come up with a part number, let us know.Van's part
number
> >> is C-690 $$22.86
>
> The price is now $25.00 in the web store, by the way.
>
> For the second time, I have lost function in a gas spring on my 6A, this
time
> causing my one and only canopy stress crack to double in length (it's not
> good when a tip-up unexpectedly shuts on its own!) The first time this
> happened, Van replaced the barely one year old strut for free. I doubt I
> could get away with that after five years. Before I order one from Van's,
I
> wanted to give the List one more shot, to see if anyone had located a
> close-enough part in a local auto parts store since the date of this last
> posting. Any takers?
>
> Meanwhile, I shall try to find a local source for Weld On #3 solvent
cement,
> to avoid hazmat charges from A/C Spruce... (sigh)
>
> Bill B
> do not archive
>
> if anyone has a source for the gas springs, we'll archive that, with
various
> search words: gas spring/shock/strut, etc.
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer@yahoo.com>
Listers,
Has anyone out there put in a grass strip? I am very
interested in doing so but I am worried about the
regulations. Does anyone have any experience with
this. I also wonder what size is needed and what type
of grass to use.
Thanks in advance,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7 Fuse
Message 29
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
I whole heartily agree, We ARE the Manufacturer! And all the Federal Regs
(and case law) support that stance. But God help you if you add an oil
cooler, electronic ignition, fuel injection, inverted oil system, etc...
anything that an Attorney (not representing you) can say "modified" that
aircraft so it "No longer meets the terms & conditions" for insurance
coverage.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JRWillJR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/21/2003 8:42:28 AM Central Standard Time,
jhelms@i1.net
> writes:
>
>
> > Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you read:
> > http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of
the
> > manufacturer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how Van
has
> > indicated in the plans.
>
> I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not
the
> manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
> paperwork is the manufactuer.
> I called Falcon again today. They again told me they could insure the
> Aerosport engine. I told them about there being a discussion about
insuring
> these engines. I now think I know what is going on here. I mentioned a
> company name--Falcon. Competing companies and representatives did not like
> that.
> So, if I purchase a scrap Lycoming that has been serving as boat anchor
and
> remove it's data plate and stick it on my Aerosport I guess everything
will
> be cool, I as an A&P will just write in the engine logbook, engine torn
down
> for overhaul R&R all parts, Test run OK. Works for me. JR
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines-insurance update |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
Sorry for yet another post. I again called the EAA insurance program listed
in Sport Av through or represented by Falcon. I spoke to a very knowledgeable
gentleman, I will not give out his name but if you call the number it will be
him or he will get referred to you, about this issue. He was also very
nice/patient considering I was somewhat irritated. I was yet again told, they
can insure the pro-built Aerosport, Mattituck, Air Power etc PMA clone
engines. I did not ask for a quote but I was told the policies would be
similar to a Lycoming. They look at the overall package which of course
includes the pilot and his/her past history, ratings etc. Bottom line is that
anyone purchasing these engines can expect to find insurance at similar rates
to a supposedly certified Lycoming. I asked about other engines, turbines and
Subarus maybe a problem, he said they would have to shop around but he did
not say they could not insure them but I get the feeling it might be very
difficult--read as expensive but that is me saying that, not them.
Conclusion, regardless of Internet Hype, most people with an aviation type,
PMA Lycoming rebuild or PMA new clone will have no unreasonable difficulty
getting insurance at reasonable rates (such as they are). Damn the torpedoes,
full speed ahead! Do Not Archive. JR
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
contact me off list. been there, still doing that!
-Bill Boyd
Hop-Along Airstrip
12VA
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
After reading this thread yesterday, I contacted my Falcon representative about
my flight coverage for my RV-8A. Long story short: he contacted AIG (my carrier)
via email regarding my Superior XP-360 engine (the question referred to by JT in
one of the earlier posts was NOT on the on-line form back in October when we had
to activate my insurance) and AIG replied back - via email - that "this engine
is
okay for the RV." No change in my premium (about $1,500 per year). Yes, I will
be
saving this email, just in case.
While I am now comfortable that my XP-360 is covered, JT's point is well-taken:
Provide all of the information requested for coverage, then read the policy
carefully when it is issued. I went over mine when issued and ended up with a
page of questions. The answers were all what I expected, but now is the time to
identify any potential issues with your coverage. I for one cannot afford to
self-insure this thing
I think some of this depends on how literally you read the text, and this is a
good example. If the issue is "major modifications" or "powerplant alterations"
that diverge from the manufacturer, I could argue both sides. On the one hand,
Van does have an OEM agreement with Lycoming, and those are the engines he
endorses. On the other hand, should a difference in BRAND count as a major
modification or powerplant alteration? I guess I can see where some would argue
"yes," but I am just not buying it. What if I used a different brand of rivets
than Van used? What if I used different instruments? What if I used a different
stick grip? I realize there is a big difference between an engine and these other
items, but you see where I am going - how would you know how far to take it? My
XP-360 is an AIRCRAFT engine, designed solely for use in an aircraft. It is not
a
car engine modified to fit. It is not a rubber-band powered hoss. It is not
electric or solar powered. The point here is that the XP-360 is a CONVENTIONAL
aircraft engine with a CONVENTIONAL installation. To take it a step further, I
have not modified this engine with high compression pistons or anything like that
either. It is not some one-off design that I have created in the wee hours of the
night in the dark recesses of my garage. THESE are the kinds of things I
interpret "major modifications" or "powerplant alterations" as intending to
address. My XP-360 is essentially equivalent to a Lycoming (except with a MUCH
better paint job).
Finally, from the reasonable man's perspective, my Superior Air Parts XP-360 is
completely, 100%, made up of FAA approved Lycoming-replacement parts. From an
insurance carriers' perspective, which is riskier - my BRAND NEW XP-360 with all
parts completely FAA approved, assembled and test run at a reputable shop, or me
buying a run-out true "Lycoming" and slapping it on the front? Or how about me
taking that same run-out Lycoming, and then overhauling it MYSELF in my garage
(I
am not an A&P nor do I have any engine work experience)?
While I am now completely confident that my coverage with AIG is complete, I do
appreciate JT (and others) occasionally raising such issues. Again, I would
rather make sure everything is in order now than find out otherwise the hard way
on down the road...
Scott in Memphis
RV-8A with good-looking (not gun metal gray) XP-360 up front
Targeting June for first flight
JRWillJR@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/21/2003 8:42:28 AM Central Standard Time, jhelms@i1.net
> writes:
>
> > Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you read:
> > http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of the
> > manufacturer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how Van has
> > indicated in the plans.
>
> I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not the
> manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
> paperwork is the manufactuer.
> I called Falcon again today. They again told me they could insure the
> Aerosport engine. I told them about there being a discussion about insuring
> these engines. I now think I know what is going on here. I mentioned a
> company name--Falcon. Competing companies and representatives did not like
> that.
> So, if I purchase a scrap Lycoming that has been serving as boat anchor and
> remove it's data plate and stick it on my Aerosport I guess everything will
> be cool, I as an A&P will just write in the engine logbook, engine torn down
> for overhaul R&R all parts, Test run OK. Works for me. JR
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Yes, I put a 2600' strip in my back yard. I'll be happy to discuss the
details if you email me or call me at 330-592-4944.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Heated seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" <rickjory@msn.com>
Texas State Penitentiary.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Do not archive
Rick Jory RV8A
>
> A few weeks back someone posted a note about seat pads that plug into the
lighter socket. Where can they be purchased?
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | RV6's for sale...? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Whiteside" <erwhites@bellsouth.net>
A friend of mine has sold his current plane (Christen Eagle),
and is looking for an RV6 to buy. He prefers
180HP, constant speed, and IFR capable. If
you know of one for sale, please drop me a note.
Eric Whiteside
erwhites@bellsouth.net
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & |
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>JR Will wrote:
>I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not the
>manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
>paperwork is the manufactuer.
JR, will you please let the insurance industry, the FAA, the lawyers and
especially the kit manu -- er sellers know?
Thanks for setting us all straight!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 37
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"rv8list@yahoogroups.com" <rv8list@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <n8wv@vondane.com>
Anyone on this list fly out of Fremont County Airport (1V6) in Colorado?
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A ~ 85 hrs
www.vondane.com
do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: > Re: Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I too have done that in West Central Arkansas. Your location will make a
difference in type of grass,etc.
Email me too if you want more info on my project .
do not archive
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: > Re: Heated Seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Look in the archives under " Electric Seat Makers " , I think.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
In a message dated 1/21/2003 3:38:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
csbrumbelow@fedex.com writes:
> On the one hand,
> Van does have an OEM agreement with Lycoming, and those are the engines he
> endorses.
Van also has a Franklin powered RV8 demonstrator. Can't that be interpreted
as an endorsement of a Lycoming alternative? I also think he's got some
rebuilt non-factory new Lycoming(s) in the fleet if memory serves from
reading past issues of the RVAtor. Don't know if all the dataplates on his
engnies say Lycoming. Maybe someone knows already...
do not archive
Message 41
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--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 01:15 AM 1/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
>
> i need help in sewing the inter pannel in seats. how to keep them flat in
>the bottom of the seat and not stretch across the middle.
I'm no upholstery man, they call them 'trimmers' but I have done some
reading up on the subject. They use buttons in some places and sewed in
panels in others. I suppose the latter would be most appropriate where you
have to sit on it. I think you need to sew the seat in separate boxes so
that all the fabric is laying over flat or convex surfaces.
I would think you could also use adhesives but I don't know. You'd think
too that we would have a trimmer on the list?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Setting you far from straight is more like it.
Did you even bother to read the article I suggested?
(http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html) Written by a lawyer who
practices aviation law. He lays out precisely where your liability as the
assembler of a kit begins and ends and where Van's liability as the
manufacturer of the kit begins and ends.
You can put yourself on the data plate as the manufacturer, but I would
venture to say that you'd be arguing that you were not the manufacturer in a
court of law after a liability lawsuit was filed against you for an airplane
crash that was caused by failure of a component that you did not alter from
the original plans.
When the insurance companies ask you a question and refer to the
"manufacturer" they are talking about Van, not you. Believe me. They don't
trust your ability to engineer anything, but they do trust Van.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>JR Will wrote:
>I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not
the
>manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
>paperwork is the manufactuer.
JR, will you please let the insurance industry, the FAA, the lawyers and
especially the kit manu -- er sellers know?
Thanks for setting us all straight!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 43
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur |
ance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts@unionsafe.com>
If you look up my N number on Landings you will find that I am the
manufacturer of my plane...
N-number : N311SV
Aircraft Serial Number : 1054
Aircraft Manufacturer : VANARTSDALEN SCOTT
Model : RV-4
Aircraft Year :
Owner Name : VAN ARTSDALEN SCOTT D
Owner Address : OMITTED BY US MARSHALLS OFFICE
Registration Date : 26-Nov-2002
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
C'mon men, build! Build for all yer worth!
-----Original Message-----
From: C. Rabaut [mailto:crabaut@coalinga.com]
Subject: Fw: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
I whole heartily agree, We ARE the Manufacturer! And all the Federal Regs
(and case law) support that stance. But God help you if you add an oil
cooler, electronic ignition, fuel injection, inverted oil system, etc...
anything that an Attorney (not representing you) can say "modified" that
aircraft so it "No longer meets the terms & conditions" for insurance
coverage.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JRWillJR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/21/2003 8:42:28 AM Central Standard Time,
jhelms@i1.net
> writes:
>
>
> > Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you read:
> > http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of
the
> > manufacturer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how Van
has
> > indicated in the plans.
>
> I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not
the
> manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
> paperwork is the manufactuer.
> I called Falcon again today. They again told me they could insure the
> Aerosport engine. I told them about there being a discussion about
insuring
> these engines. I now think I know what is going on here. I mentioned a
> company name--Falcon. Competing companies and representatives did not like
> that.
> So, if I purchase a scrap Lycoming that has been serving as boat anchor
and
> remove it's data plate and stick it on my Aerosport I guess everything
will
> be cool, I as an A&P will just write in the engine logbook, engine torn
down
> for overhaul R&R all parts, Test run OK. Works for me. JR
>
>
Message 44
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts@unionsafe.com>
That's a big nokie-dokie Billy-boy! But I should be flying within a week or
two!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8wv@vondane.com]
Subject:
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <n8wv@vondane.com>
Anyone on this list fly out of Fremont County Airport (1V6) in Colorado?
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A ~ 85 hrs
www.vondane.com
do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Just like it is good and safe practice to replace batteries every year or
two (according to lectric Bob), maybe the tip-up gas struts should be
replaced ever so often too. ( these canopies are expensive aren't they?)
Has Vans said anything about what their expected life time is? What about
some sort of safety clamp just in case the struts fail?
Indiana Larry with tip-up and tailwheeled destined - 3XG ( reserved ) Only
the colors remain to be determined.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Heated seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
Rick,
How do you know?? Did you do time there and therefore have some first hand
experience with them?
SORRY, but I could not resist either.
Do NOT Archive - Do NOT Archive
> Texas State Penitentiary.
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> Do not archive
> Rick Jory RV8A
>
> >
> > A few weeks back someone posted a note about seat pads that plug into
the
> lighter socket. Where can they be purchased?
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael Sices" <msices@core.com>
I think a confusion here is the idea that somehow one has to be a
"manufacturer" to incur "product liability." Anyone in the chain of
distribution can incur product liability. An individual who lost a tooth
because he bit down on a what he thought was a "pitted" olive (only to
discover the pit still in it) sued both the bar who had served the can of
pitted olives, the canning company, the importer of the olives, and the farm
that grew the olives under product liability. In the end, when the lawyers
get a hold of an insured loss, everyone who ever touched the item gets
"named."
The problem for the insurance companies is that they know that a
manufacturer of transportation machinery (trains, boats, planes, etc) is
subject to "strict liability." Strict liability means you are pretty much
screwed in court. Lawyers don't really care what the FAA says on its forms,
or any one piece of the puzzle really. It is the entirety of the
information put together, then litigated that determines liability in cases
like this.
The real issue is what is a "covered claim" under these extremely vague
aviation insurance policies. I don't know many actuaries who are pilots.
They keep trying to guess where the risk is, but as we all know there are
lies, then there are damned lies. And then there are statistics.
Mike Sices
RV8 Builder and scum sucking bottom dweller (lawyer)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Helms
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Setting you far from straight is more like it.
Did you even bother to read the article I suggested?
(http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html) Written by a lawyer who
practices aviation law. He lays out precisely where your liability as the
assembler of a kit begins and ends and where Van's liability as the
manufacturer of the kit begins and ends.
You can put yourself on the data plate as the manufacturer, but I would
venture to say that you'd be arguing that you were not the manufacturer in a
court of law after a liability lawsuit was filed against you for an airplane
crash that was caused by failure of a component that you did not alter from
the original plans.
When the insurance companies ask you a question and refer to the
"manufacturer" they are talking about Van, not you. Believe me. They don't
trust your ability to engineer anything, but they do trust Van.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>JR Will wrote:
>I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not
the
>manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
>paperwork is the manufactuer.
JR, will you please let the insurance industry, the FAA, the lawyers and
especially the kit manu -- er sellers know?
Thanks for setting us all straight!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & |
Insurance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
At 16:43 2003-01-21 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 1/21/2003 3:38:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>csbrumbelow@fedex.com writes:
>
> > On the one hand,
> > Van does have an OEM agreement with Lycoming, and those are the engines he
> > endorses.
>
>Van also has a Franklin powered RV8 demonstrator. Can't that be interpreted
>as an endorsement of a Lycoming alternative? I also think he's got some
>rebuilt non-factory new Lycoming(s) in the fleet if memory serves from
>reading past issues of the RVAtor. Don't know if all the dataplates on his
>engnies say Lycoming. Maybe someone knows already...
>
>do not archive
The engine on the factory -9A is from Bart circa ~'98-'99. I remember them
showing it off at a Home Wing meeting one night at the old skunk works. It
was still setting on a shipping pallet at the time.
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Heated seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
That's how they work... "resist"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heated seats
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
>
> Rick,
> How do you know?? Did you do time there and therefore have some first
hand
> experience with them?
>
> SORRY, but I could not resist either.
>
> Do NOT Archive - Do NOT Archive
>
>
> > Texas State Penitentiary.
> >
> > Sorry, couldn't resist.
> > Do not archive
> > Rick Jory RV8A
> >
> > >
> > > A few weeks back someone posted a note about seat pads that plug into
> the
> > lighter socket. Where can they be purchased?
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I just spoke to the head's of the the light aircraft offices of AIG and Global
Aerospace (EAA's program). Both have told me within the last 30 minutes that
they do not write other than Lycoming engine powered RVs. (Falcon works with
AIG's AZ office but AIG assured me that he was re-iterating to that office the
guidelines).
AIG's specific question on their web site regarding that only came about a few
months ago, but is now on their quote request that your broker has to fill out
for both new business and renewals.
I am going to try to press the issue with Phoenix as soon as I can reach the head
of their department. I am not terribly hopeful that I am going to get the
positive answer most of you are hoping for.
I think you all may have experimented yourselves into a corner. AVEMCO will write
coverage for just about anything, but the other companies won't. And I think
a lot of you are aware of their reputation.
I will post an answer as soon as I know anything. Please do not call me if you're
insured with me regarding what type of engine you have. Phoenix does not
make a habit of denying claims (they paid a claim on a Chevy powered RV this year).
I will notify you about Phoenix's response here on the list when I know
anything.
I am not holding my breath. They have always held to the "engines approved by
Van's" mantra and I don't expect other than that from them now, but I'll do my
best. As one customer just called me re: he has one of Bart's engines.... I
only was made aware today that Bart was manufacturing XP-360s .... I thought he
was merely remanufacturing or overhauling Lycomings.
JT
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Heated seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Just imagine the size of the alternator that would take. Boy, talk about
inrush current!!!(g-)
Do not archive Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory@msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heated seats
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Jory" <rickjory@msn.com>
>
> Texas State Penitentiary.
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> Do not archive
> Rick Jory RV8A
>
> >
> > A few weeks back someone posted a note about seat pads that plug into
the
> lighter socket. Where can they be purchased?
> >
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates..Is it a Duck?
--> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
JT,
Does all this discussion pertain to hull insurance or liability regarding
"experimental" engines. Will the insurance companies in general write
liability for an engine that has a lightspeed ignition on one side?
Bernie Kerr, stock new 0-320 DIA in 6A, building 9A with rotary
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
ok, so far the reply are off list.
How come fellas?
I am very interested in the issues surround a grass strip.
I realize its probably a book. But just the bullets of issues would be an
interesting start.
I am fishing in this area also.
Mike Stewart
Flying, but wanting to live with my plane cause I fly too much.
-----Original Message-----
From: SportAV8R@aol.com [mailto:SportAV8R@aol.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Grass Strip Construction
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
contact me off list. been there, still doing that!
-Bill Boyd
Hop-Along Airstrip
12VA
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
I asked Van's today if all their engines had nameplates and were still
certified. They assured me that all their demo planes were certified, but
they did have one with an electronic ignition. They do not do customer
flights in this airplane.
Bernie Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael McGee" <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
>
> At 16:43 2003-01-21 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 1/21/2003 3:38:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >csbrumbelow@fedex.com writes:
> >
> > > On the one hand,
> > > Van does have an OEM agreement with Lycoming, and those are the
engines he
> > > endorses.
> >
> >Van also has a Franklin powered RV8 demonstrator. Can't that be
interpreted
> >as an endorsement of a Lycoming alternative? I also think he's got some
> >rebuilt non-factory new Lycoming(s) in the fleet if memory serves from
> >reading past issues of the RVAtor. Don't know if all the dataplates on
his
> >engnies say Lycoming. Maybe someone knows already...
> >
> >do not archive
>
> The engine on the factory -9A is from Bart circa ~'98-'99. I remember
them
> showing it off at a Home Wing meeting one night at the old skunk works.
It
> was still setting on a shipping pallet at the time.
>
> Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
> 13B in gestation mode
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates..Is it a Duck?
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
The underwriting rules that the companies follow apply no matter what type
of coverages are being requested or offered.
As for the ignition system alterations, that should be no problem.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck?
--> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
JT,
Does all this discussion pertain to hull insurance or liability regarding
"experimental" engines. Will the insurance companies in general write
liability for an engine that has a lightspeed ignition on one side?
Bernie Kerr, stock new 0-320 DIA in 6A, building 9A with rotary
Message 56
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|
| Subject: | Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Since I started this I will chime in. I continued looking but have not
found a strut available locally. Van did send me a replacement for
free. I plan to change them at regular intervals and keep a spare.
Jeff Point
>Jeff posted this a while back:
>
>
Message 57
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|
| Subject: | Using cork with Pro-Seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
When installing the covers on the fuel tanks I wanted to be able to get them of
if need be with a minimum of effort.
I cleaned and prepped the area around the covers, prepped the covers and installed
the cork gaskets dry. Tightened the screws as much as possible without deforming
the cover, then ran a bead of Pro-Seal around the edge of the cover sealing
the cover to the end baffle, then Pro-Sealed around each screw head.
Some years later needed to remove one and it was a simple matter using a sharpened
tongue depressor to remove the bead and around the screws. Cover came off
without damaging the gasket and was able to use it over again.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
Message 58
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|
| Subject: | Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell |
--> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
Have not heard a peep from Rick in about a year. Bill Shook apparently dropped
from the face of the earth.
Does anyone know the story of these two Fla RVators??
Do not archive'
Bernie Kerr
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>
>I am not holding my breath. They have always held to the "engines approved by
Van's" mantra and I don't expect other than that from them now, but I'll do my
best. As one customer just called me re: he has one of Bart's engines.... I
only was made aware today that Bart was manufacturing XP-360s .... I thought
he was merely remanufacturing or overhauling Lycomings.
>
>
Just to clarify this- when I last spoke to Bart about engines (Oshkosh
last year) he stated that he builds his new engines with all new parts.
In the past, this was a mix of Lyc, Superior and ECI parts, but now he
uses all Superior parts. His engines have an Aerpsport Power O-360 data
plate. He will also sell a "bona fide" XP-360 if you want, but the only
difference is the data plate. Neither is a genuine Lycoming, but both
are brand new, professionaly built engines with all PMA'd parts. Since
many have responded that their insurance companies knowingly insure with
an Aerosport engine but the same companies say no to the XP, I wonder if
the companies are aware of exactly what an Aerosport engine is? I
realize that many Aerosport engines bought over the years really are
rebuilt Lycs, but it is my understanding that even these leave the
factory zero timed with an Aerosport data plate. Is this good enough
for the insurance co, or should I start looking for a Lycoming data
plate on Ebay?
This kind of inconsistancy is what drives me (and many others) nuts
about insurance. I do not mean to flame insurance people, but I spent
yesterday meeting with my life insurance guy, and listening to him
justify why my rates are higher because I fly, but snowmobiling, jet
skiing etc. do not make a difference. I defy any actuary to show me how
being a pilot makes me a higher life insurance risk than those two
activities.
Boy, I was right when I said this thread would generate a lot of interest.
Rant mode off, back to the garage.
Jeff Point
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
At 03:06 PM 1/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
>contact me off list. been there, still doing that!
>
>-Bill Boyd
>Hop-Along Airstrip
>12VA
Bill,
Please don't go off the list. Plenty of us are interested in grass strips,
but know nothing about building them. I searched for many hours on the
internet and found very little.
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
255 exciting Hrs.
Message 61
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|
| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Well there's your mistake... NEVER take for Gospel anything an Attorney says
(or writes)!
----- Original Message -----
From: John Helms <jhelms@i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
Insurance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> Setting you far from straight is more like it.
>
> Did you even bother to read the article I suggested?
> (http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html) Written by a lawyer who
> practices aviation law. He lays out precisely where your liability as the
> assembler of a kit begins and ends and where Van's liability as the
> manufacturer of the kit begins and ends.
>
> You can put yourself on the data plate as the manufacturer, but I would
> venture to say that you'd be arguing that you were not the manufacturer in
a
> court of law after a liability lawsuit was filed against you for an
airplane
> crash that was caused by failure of a component that you did not alter
from
> the original plans.
>
> When the insurance companies ask you a question and refer to the
> "manufacturer" they are talking about Van, not you. Believe me. They
don't
> trust your ability to engineer anything, but they do trust Van.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
> Insurance Rates
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
>
> >JR Will wrote:
> >I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is not
> the
> >manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
> >paperwork is the manufactuer.
>
> JR, will you please let the insurance industry, the FAA, the lawyers and
> especially the kit manu -- er sellers know?
>
> Thanks for setting us all straight!
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK flying!
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
Message 62
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Nice to meet a "truthful Attorney" Michael....
Chuck (that F---in', good for nothing, cop)
RV-4's forever!
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Sices <msices@core.com>
>
> The real issue is what is a "covered claim" under these extremely vague
> aviation insurance policies. I don't know many actuaries who are pilots.
> They keep trying to guess where the risk is, but as we all know there are
> lies, then there are damned lies. And then there are statistics.
>
> Mike Sices
> RV8 Builder and scum sucking bottom dweller (lawyer)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Helms
Message 63
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| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur |
ance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Scott, you workin' "under cover brother"... or are "they" after you?
> Owner Address : OMITTED BY US MARSHALLS OFFICE???
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts@unionsafe.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur
ance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott"
<svanarts@unionsafe.com>
>
> If you look up my N number on Landings you will find that I am the
> manufacturer of my plane...
>
> N-number : N311SV
> Aircraft Serial Number : 1054
> Aircraft Manufacturer : VANARTSDALEN SCOTT
> Model : RV-4
> Aircraft Year :
> Owner Name : VAN ARTSDALEN SCOTT D
> Owner Address : OMITTED BY US MARSHALLS OFFICE
>
> Registration Date : 26-Nov-2002
> Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
>
>
> C'mon men, build! Build for all yer worth!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. Rabaut [mailto:crabaut@coalinga.com]
> To: RV-List
> Subject: Fw: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
> Insurance Rates
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
> I whole heartily agree, We ARE the Manufacturer! And all the Federal
Regs
> (and case law) support that stance. But God help you if you add an oil
> cooler, electronic ignition, fuel injection, inverted oil system, etc...
> anything that an Attorney (not representing you) can say "modified" that
> aircraft so it "No longer meets the terms & conditions" for insurance
> coverage.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JRWillJR@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
> Insurance Rates
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 1/21/2003 8:42:28 AM Central Standard Time,
> jhelms@i1.net
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you
read:
> > > http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of
> the
> > > manufacturer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how
Van
> has
> > > indicated in the plans.
> >
> > I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is
not
> the
> > manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
> > paperwork is the manufactuer.
> > I called Falcon again today. They again told me they could insure the
> > Aerosport engine. I told them about there being a discussion about
> insuring
> > these engines. I now think I know what is going on here. I mentioned a
> > company name--Falcon. Competing companies and representatives did not
like
> > that.
> > So, if I purchase a scrap Lycoming that has been serving as boat anchor
> and
> > remove it's data plate and stick it on my Aerosport I guess everything
> will
> > be cool, I as an A&P will just write in the engine logbook, engine torn
> down
> > for overhaul R&R all parts, Test run OK. Works for me. JR
> >
> >
>
>
Message 64
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| Subject: | Another new builder |
--> RV-List message posted by: Roger Humphrey <RogerAH3@attbi.com>
Monitored these news groups for years
Got preview plans last July
Started cleaning out the garage in August
Took my wife along to the "RV Assembly" workshop in Corona in September
And on the factory visit/demonstrator ride in November
And now we have taken the plunge RV9 empennage kit number 689 was delivered here
last week. QuickBuild RV9a fuselage and wings are on order.
I am still in the tooling up stage I have gathered materials for the "Standardized
Work Tables" and lots of questions. I live in Marin County and would love to be
in
contact with other builders in the area. I note that the local EAA chapter is
meeting, for the first time in a while, this Saturday.
Feeling challenged,
Roger Humphrey
RogerAH3@attbi.com
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Do I really need to reply as to whether or not changing the data plate only
is gonna make a difference?
Obviously, the paper trail is going to exist showing it's not a Lyc.
Deceipt is definetely not the way to go.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine's and insurance clarification
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>
>I am not holding my breath. They have always held to the "engines approved
by Van's" mantra and I don't expect other than that from them now, but I'll
do my best. As one customer just called me re: he has one of Bart's
engines.... I only was made aware today that Bart was manufacturing XP-360s
.... I thought he was merely remanufacturing or overhauling Lycomings.
>
>
Just to clarify this- when I last spoke to Bart about engines (Oshkosh
last year) he stated that he builds his new engines with all new parts.
In the past, this was a mix of Lyc, Superior and ECI parts, but now he
uses all Superior parts. His engines have an Aerpsport Power O-360 data
plate. He will also sell a "bona fide" XP-360 if you want, but the only
difference is the data plate. Neither is a genuine Lycoming, but both
are brand new, professionaly built engines with all PMA'd parts. Since
many have responded that their insurance companies knowingly insure with
an Aerosport engine but the same companies say no to the XP, I wonder if
the companies are aware of exactly what an Aerosport engine is? I
realize that many Aerosport engines bought over the years really are
rebuilt Lycs, but it is my understanding that even these leave the
factory zero timed with an Aerosport data plate. Is this good enough
for the insurance co, or should I start looking for a Lycoming data
plate on Ebay?
This kind of inconsistancy is what drives me (and many others) nuts
about insurance. I do not mean to flame insurance people, but I spent
yesterday meeting with my life insurance guy, and listening to him
justify why my rates are higher because I fly, but snowmobiling, jet
skiing etc. do not make a difference. I defy any actuary to show me how
being a pilot makes me a higher life insurance risk than those two
activities.
Boy, I was right when I said this thread would generate a lot of interest.
Rant mode off, back to the garage.
Jeff Point
>
>
Message 66
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| Subject: | Grass Strip Construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
After I put in my grass strip I had many email inquiries about dealing with
regulators. I put up a web page that summarizes what I went through so that
I wouldn't have to answer each email separately.
Here is the link: http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/airstrip.html
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
--> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer
Has anyone out there put in a grass strip? I am very
interested in doing so but I am worried about the
regulations. Does anyone have any experience with
this. I also wonder what size is needed and what type
of grass to use.
---
Message 67
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|
| Subject: | Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur |
ance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts@unionsafe.com>
THEY are always after me. Or so the voices in my head keep telling me.
Do not archive ... they might be searching the archives!!
-----Original Message-----
From: C. Rabaut [mailto:crabaut@coalinga.com]
Subject: Fw: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur
ance Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Scott, you workin' "under cover brother"... or are "they" after you?
> Owner Address : OMITTED BY US MARSHALLS OFFICE???
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Van Artsdalen, Scott <svanarts@unionsafe.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insur
ance Rates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott"
<svanarts@unionsafe.com>
>
> If you look up my N number on Landings you will find that I am the
> manufacturer of my plane...
>
> N-number : N311SV
> Aircraft Serial Number : 1054
> Aircraft Manufacturer : VANARTSDALEN SCOTT
> Model : RV-4
> Aircraft Year :
> Owner Name : VAN ARTSDALEN SCOTT D
> Owner Address : OMITTED BY US MARSHALLS OFFICE
>
> Registration Date : 26-Nov-2002
> Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified
>
>
> C'mon men, build! Build for all yer worth!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. Rabaut [mailto:crabaut@coalinga.com]
> To: RV-List
> Subject: Fw: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
> Insurance Rates
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
> I whole heartily agree, We ARE the Manufacturer! And all the Federal
Regs
> (and case law) support that stance. But God help you if you add an oil
> cooler, electronic ignition, fuel injection, inverted oil system, etc...
> anything that an Attorney (not representing you) can say "modified" that
> aircraft so it "No longer meets the terms & conditions" for insurance
> coverage.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JRWillJR@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
> Insurance Rates
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 1/21/2003 8:42:28 AM Central Standard Time,
> jhelms@i1.net
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > Van's is the manufacturer. You are the assembler. I suggest you
read:
> > > http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. You can assume some of
> the
> > > manufacturer liability if you vary how you build the plane from how
Van
> has
> > > indicated in the plans.
> >
> > I don't know where this comes from but I am here to tell you Van's is
not
> the
> > manufacturer. The person who builds the aircraft and applies for the
> > paperwork is the manufactuer.
> > I called Falcon again today. They again told me they could insure the
> > Aerosport engine. I told them about there being a discussion about
> insuring
> > these engines. I now think I know what is going on here. I mentioned a
> > company name--Falcon. Competing companies and representatives did not
like
> > that.
> > So, if I purchase a scrap Lycoming that has been serving as boat anchor
> and
> > remove it's data plate and stick it on my Aerosport I guess everything
> will
> > be cool, I as an A&P will just write in the engine logbook, engine torn
> down
> > for overhaul R&R all parts, Test run OK. Works for me. JR
> >
> >
>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>John, I was following your logic for a while but it is now getting
>somewhat hazy. :-)
>
>If I understand your position (and I suppose the position of insurance
>companies if you have accurately reflected their stance on this subject)
>a Lycoming engine is only a Lycoming (and therefore insurable) if the
>data plate on the engine states Lycoming as the manufacturer.
>
>You may not be aware of this, but many, many "Lycoming" engines in RVs
>have no data plate, or a plate that has the aircraft builder's name as
>the manufacturer. This is because the FARs do not require the "Lycoming"
>plate on the engines of experimental aircraft, and many experimental
>"Lycoming" engines are built out of a mixture of parts off the shelf of
>a homebuilder or engine rebuilder wherein traceability or logability of
>the components is impossible. If tracibilty of the components of the
>engine is impossible, and a data plate is not present, the FAA does not
>recognize the engine as a Lycoming.
>
>Are you stating that the RV builder who possessed such an engine in
>his/her RV is in danger of non-payment should a claim arise? If the
>answer is yes, then just how is a "Lycoming" engine defined? Is it one
>that has a data plate and valid logs traceable back to the factory, in
>other words, a "certificated" engine? Or, is it one that merely "looks"
>like a certificated Lycoming engine?
>
>And if merely looking like a certificated engine is sufficient, then
>what is the difference in the data-plateless engine I build in my
>carport (similar to the hundreds of engines currently in RVs) and the
>hundreds of engines built by Aerosport which has a non-Lycoming
>dataplate?
>
>If indeed this is the angle the insurance companies are taking, this is
>a can of worms the bottom of which we will never find! You are now
>placing RV builders in the position of stating that their engine must
>meet a "standard", and we don't even know the parameters of the
>standard!
>
>What is the definition of "any major modifications to this aircraft
>including alterations to powerplant or airframe that differs from the
>original manufacture or design?" Does the inclusion of electronic
>ignition which Lycoming has not blessed qualify as a "major
>modification"? What about a fuel injection system such as the highly
>popular Airflow Performance system?
>
>Or......if Vans, who you say the insurance company considers as the
>manufacturer, decides to install electronic ignitions, fuel injection
>systems, four into two exhaust systems, high compression pistons, and a
>different cam profile in their demonstrator planes, does that then clear
>us for using the same or similar components in our planes with full
>insurance coverage?
>
>Does Vans know they are the manufacturer of our planes and are now
>liable for any damage we manage to inflict on our passengers or other
>people's property?
>
>John, I appreciate your input on this subject. I suspect the
>experimental community has moved much faster and farther toward
>custom-built "Lycoming" engines than you and the insurance industry
>realize. If the industry is now qualifying just what is and what isn't
>an insurable Lycoming engine.........we need to see a WRITTEN set of
>standards!
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
Sam,
One question you didn't ask was how the claim will be handled on
homebuilt planes inspected by FSDO's like the one next door to you here
in Mississippi. Even brand spanking new Lycs must have their data plates
removed before the FSDO will issue your 'flying papers'.
Charlie
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
John,
I'm not aware of any sort of "reputation" that AVEMCO has - could you please enlighten
us?
Dave
John Helms wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> I think you all may have experimented yourselves into a corner. AVEMCO will
write coverage for just about anything, but the other companies won't. And I
think a lot of you are aware of their reputation.
>
Message 70
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--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
Okay Hal I am taking the bait !!!
I own a furniture manufacturing plant in North Carolina. We build
upholstery. If you would like to send me some pictures ... I can give you
the advise you are looking for.
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL
Greensboro, N.C.
51 hours !!
Message 71
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|
| Subject: | Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Go to:
http://www.mcmaster.com/
type "9416K17" in the "Find Products" window, click on "Find", click on
>catalog page, scroll down to the bottom chart and see whatcha tink...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Jeff Point wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> Since I started this I will chime in. I continued looking but have not
> found a strut available locally. Van did send me a replacement for
> free. I plan to change them at regular intervals and keep a spare.
>
> Jeff Point
>
>
>>Jeff posted this a while back:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 72
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Ski2001a@aol.com
Len,
Have you thought of setting up and manufacturing RV-8 seats. You could get a
fair amount of business and possibly offer some improved pricing for seats.
Tom
-8 Fastback
And looking to buy some seats!!!
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Do I really need to reply as to whether or not changing the data plate
only is gonna make a difference?
Well, yes. According to the discussions over the past few days, only a
genuine Lycoming is insurable. I could take a run out, have it rebuilt
by an A&P using all new everything from Superior, rivet the old data
plate back on, make the appropriate log entries, and voila- I have a 0
SMOH genuine Lycoming engine. And it is insurable. Or I could buy an
XP, which is mechanically identical, but not insurable. The only
difference is the data plate. So yes, it seems to make a huge
difference. I made the comment about buying a data plate on Ebay
tongue-in-cheek, to make the point, but maybe the sarcasm didn't come
across. ;)
Don't give up on us John, we really do appreciate you here. Except
maybe that F---in' good for nothing cop. ;)
Jeff Point
RV-6 finish kit
and F---in' good for nothing cop.
>
>
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Bernie,
I exchanged emails with Rick in October. He said that he was not
monitoring the list. He also said that after about 395 hours on his new
Lyc that he found excessive brearing metal in the oil filter and only
recourse was to rebuild.
At the time he was building a One Design for aerobatics.
Richard Dudley
WALTER KERR wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
>
> Have not heard a peep from Rick in about a year. Bill Shook apparently dropped
from the face of the earth.
>
> Does anyone know the story of these two Fla RVators??
>
> Do not archive'
> Bernie Kerr
>
Message 75
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|
| Subject: | RV-3 condition inspection checklist |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton@earthlink.net>
Folks:
I searched the archives, but came up empty. So, does anyone out there have
a checklist for the annual condition inspection for a RV-3? If so, could
you email me a copy.
Thanks,
Randy Compton
RV-3A N84VF
Gulf Breeze, FL
Message 76
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|
| Subject: | Re: gas springs for tip-up canopy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Not sure if this is what you're referring to, but on that same page
(different part #) they also have "lockable" gas springs, which use a latch
that apparently automatically pops into place when the strut gets extended.
Pull to release.
I imagine you could get by with one of those suckers on the pilot's side
only as added no-slam insurance.
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: gas springs for tip-up canopy
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Go to:
>
> http://www.mcmaster.com/
>
> type "9416K17" in the "Find Products" window, click on "Find", click on
> >catalog page, scroll down to the bottom chart and see whatcha tink...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
> Jeff Point wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Since I started this I will chime in. I continued looking but have not
> > found a strut available locally. Van did send me a replacement for
> > free. I plan to change them at regular intervals and keep a spare.
> >
> > Jeff Point
> >
> >
> >>Jeff posted this a while back:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 77
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
All kidding aside, over the past week or two I have had the pleasure of
occupying the back seat of Len Leggette's new RV-8A for a couple hours.
The seat is heated, and feels oh-so-good -- even when it's 15`F outside.
That's cold in North Carolina.
I recently purchased two kits from http://www.rostra.com/seat-heater.htm
for my RV-8.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003: The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad Werner
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:36 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Heated seats
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
>
> Rick,
> How do you know?? Did you do time there and therefore have
> some first hand experience with them?
>
> SORRY, but I could not resist either.
>
> Do NOT Archive - Do NOT Archive
>
>
> > Texas State Penitentiary.
> >
> > Sorry, couldn't resist.
> > Do not archive
> > Rick Jory RV8A
> >
> > >
> > > A few weeks back someone posted a note about seat pads that plug
> > > into
> the
> > lighter socket. Where can they be purchased?
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
Message 78
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| Subject: | Re: Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
In a message dated 1/21/2003 9:50:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rhdudley@att.net writes:
> Subj: Re: RV-List: Did Bill Shook's blackhole get Rick Caldwell
> Date: 1/21/2003 9:50:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: <A HREF="mailto:rhdudley@att.net">rhdudley@att.net
> Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:rv-list@matronics.com">rv-list@matronics.com
> To: <A HREF="mailto:rv-list@matronics.com">rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
>
> Bernie,
>
> I exchanged emails with Rick in October. He said that he was not
> monitoring the list. He also said that after about 395 hours on his new
> Lyc that he found excessive brearing metal in the oil filter and only
> recourse was to rebuild.
>
> At the time he was building a One Design for aerobatics.
>
> Richard Dudley
I was off the list myself last year. What does the comment about Shook's
blackhole mean WRT Rick Caldwell?
Rick is a buddy of mine from when I used to live in FL and he is quite alive
and well today. A couple of deaths in the past year in Florida really got to
him (Abayman was one of them). He told me today that he got his engine back
from Lycoming yesterday and they did extensive work on it and they decided to
do so under warranty. They were "lawyering" his maintenance logs last fall
and he wasn't sure how it was going to turn out. But they redid so much they
0 timed his engine and so after 400 hours he gets to start over again for
basically the cost of shipping. He's happy again. He picked up a nice 1D and
has been flying that while the RV was laid up. He's discovering how much fun
acro is in a "real" acro plane. He doesn't monitor the lists anymore but he
might be at the free RV formation flying school being held next month in DE.
Ha, now that I think about it. He's been up to his you know what in WAY
OVERDUE HONEY DO's! He had no idea just how much his wife had waiting for
him :-) He spent the last few months redoing his house including gutting
his kitchen and starting from complete scratch.
Message 79
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--> RV-List message posted by: RVPilot4@webtv.net (BOBE.)
Please disconnect me for now.I am changing my carrier.
Thank you
Message 80
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|
| Subject: | Re: >Re: Experimental engines VS. Certificated engines & Insurance. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Hey tou guys ! :
Haven't you learned that lawyes are just professional liars ?
I thought everyone knew that!
Look at " Chikin ' Willie " - We know about HIM in Arkansas !!!
do not archive
Bob Olds
Charleston,Arkansas
Message 81
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| Subject: | Re: Another new builder |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff & Leslie" <aggiesioux@mymdu.com>
That's great Roger! Congratulations
I think we are going to take the plunge on the same kit, in Aug.
What engine have you decided upon? Or perhaps narrowed down to...
Thanks ~ Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Humphrey" <RogerAH3@attbi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Another new builder
> --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Humphrey <RogerAH3@attbi.com>
>
> Monitored these news groups for years
> Got preview plans last July
> Started cleaning out the garage in August
> Took my wife along to the "RV Assembly" workshop in Corona in September
> And on the factory visit/demonstrator ride in November
>
> And now we have taken the plunge RV9 empennage kit number 689 was
delivered here
> last week. QuickBuild RV9a fuselage and wings are on order.
>
> I am still in the tooling up stage I have gathered materials for the
"Standardized
> Work Tables" and lots of questions. I live in Marin County and would love
to be in
> contact with other builders in the area. I note that the local EAA chapter
is
> meeting, for the first time in a while, this Saturday.
>
> Feeling challenged,
>
> Roger Humphrey
> RogerAH3@attbi.com
>
>
Message 82
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| Subject: | Painting RV-6 thread |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
How to pay for the next warDoes someone have a mailing list for all these sponsors
- maybe they'll also sponsor my RV-6. (grins) See the picture (from one
of my good USAF OCS friends from Class of 62A)
David Carter (for Carter family & friends - this went to a LARGE BCC list so you
don't have to send it to each other)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Milt Birmingham
Subject: Fw: How to pay for the next war
I thought this one was good.
If NASCAR can do it...
Message 83
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| Subject: | Re: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines & Insurance |
Rates
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Michael Sices wrote:
<snip>
> The real issue is what is a "covered claim" under these extremely vague
> aviation insurance policies. I don't know many actuaries who are pilots.
> They keep trying to guess where the risk is, but as we all know there are
> lies, then there are damned lies. And then there are statistics.
>
> Mike Sices
> RV8 Builder and scum sucking bottom dweller (lawyer)
>
Bingo!
The way to provide wiggle room to avoid a particularly onerous legal
battle (and claim payment) is to maintain sufficient vagueness in the
stipulations for the policy holder that nobody can definitively agree on
just what the requirements really mean! ;-)
That is why we are hearing "talk to your insurer, tell them what kind of
engine modifications you have made, and they will review it case by
case".
So......I guess the first thing I need to do before I even buy the
preview plans for my next plane is to call the insurance agents and tell
them precisely what kind of "Lycoming" engine I will be installing in a
few years so I can determine whether or not the project will be
insurable five years for now......
And, as stated before, if I decide to install a "certificated Lycoming"
(actually such a beast doesn't exist in a plane with an experimental
certificate) I can look forward to hassles with the DAR or FSDO when it
comes time to make sure I have complied with all ADs before the pink
slip is issued!
This is what happens when EVERYBODY is trying to cover their
backside.......
I can't wait to hear what Superior and Mattituck have to say when they
find out some insurance companies have decided their engines are
uninsurable (and therefore unmarketable).
Sam Buchanan (somebody ain't tellin' us the straight scoop on this deal)
Message 84
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--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Larry,
No joy on the web link below. Is it just me or is there a typo there?
Charlie
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>All kidding aside, over the past week or two I have had the pleasure of
>occupying the back seat of Len Leggette's new RV-8A for a couple hours.
>The seat is heated, and feels oh-so-good -- even when it's 15`F outside.
>That's cold in North Carolina.
>
>I recently purchased two kits from http://www.rostra.com/seat-heater.htm
>for my RV-8.
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry@BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>2003: The year of flight!
Message 85
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wier, Daniel C." <daniel@thegreatwhite.net>
Hey everyone, I am new to the RV world and just starting for the most
part. I have spent several months trying to figure everything out, but
now I have two questions, I was hoping you experts could help me with.
1) What are lightening holes for and are they a good idea. I know
they are optional, but is the few ounces that you save really going to
matter at all?
2) Is there a place you can see all the option that you can
include in parts, for example light kits for the Vertical stab. This
would help to decide how much room and how to leave space for future
wiring.
Thanks everyone and I look forward to getting to know you all.
Daniel Wier
Wilmore, KY
Daniel@thegreatwhite.net
Message 86
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| Subject: | Re: Heated seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stan Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
Here's a copy of a post regarding seat heaters on 02/22/01.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Nellis"
<mnellis@peoplepc.com>
Here's a link for seat pads
http://www.skylitesunroofs.com/p_carbotex_round_deluxe_system.html
Another option is to use a heated vest and leave the jacket in the back.
http://www.4atlast.com/
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (res) Gooping up the tanks
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
http://bmnellis.com
Stan Blanton
RV-6
snip
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
> Larry,
> No joy on the web link below. Is it just me or is there a typo there?
> Charlie
>
Message 87
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| Subject: | Re: Heated seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stan Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
I did an archive search on"seat & heat" and had a number of hits including
this link.
http://www.rostra.com/oem-products.htm
Stan Blanton
RV-6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Heated seats
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
> Larry,
> No joy on the web link below. Is it just me or is there a typo there?
> Charlie
Message 88
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Doh! http://www.rostra.com/ looks correct, verified by the search
engines. Maybe their server down. I'll try again tomorrow.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003: The year of flight!
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:32 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Heated seats
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
> Larry,
> No joy on the web link below. Is it just me or is there a
> typo there? Charlie
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> >All kidding aside, over the past week or two I have had the
> pleasure of
> >occupying the back seat of Len Leggette's new RV-8A for a
> couple hours.
> >The seat is heated, and feels oh-so-good -- even when it's 15`F
> >outside. That's cold in North Carolina.
> >
> >I recently purchased two kits from
> >http://www.rostra.com/seat-heater.htm
> >for my RV-8.
> >
> >-
> >Larry Bowen
> >Larry@BowenAero.com
> >http://BowenAero.com
> >2003: The year of flight!
Message 89
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| Subject: | Re: Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 08:46 PM 1/21/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>Do I really need to reply as to whether or not changing the data plate
>only is gonna make a difference?
If we call the sun 'moon' and the moon 'sun', what will come up in the
morning???
The sun of course. Putting a Lycoming data plate on a Chevy V6 does not
make it a Lycoming. The same applies for anything else you might stick the
tag on.
I think John T is trying to get us to understand that lying or even fudging
on the insurance declarations is just another way to rip yourself off. If
I were an engine manufacturer, I would maintain that any engine that
contained *ANY* part made by someone other than my firm would not be my
engine. If the part were a spitting image made by someone else, not my
engine. How can Lycoming be responsible for something made by Superior?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 90
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 10:58 PM 1/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wier, Daniel C." <daniel@thegreatwhite.net>
>
>Hey everyone, I am new to the RV world and just starting for the most
>part. I have spent several months trying to figure everything out, but
>now I have two questions, I was hoping you experts could help me with.
>
>1) What are lightening holes for and are they a good idea. I know
>they are optional, but is the few ounces that you save really going to
>matter at all?
Van puts lightening holes in parts to reduce weight. They are a brilliant
idea that was not invented by Van, however. An ounce here, an ounce there,
it adds up. Think always about how to make the airplane lighter. The cool
thing for you, beginner, is to do as the plans say.
>2) Is there a place you can see all the option that you can
>include in parts, for example light kits for the Vertical stab. This
>would help to decide how much room and how to leave space for future
>wiring.
Build according to the plans. When you get down to the point where these
questions are issues you'll be an expert and know the answers. Also,
hopefully, you will have looked at many other RVs and been given guidance
by other builders. I always try to think of myself as a student.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
820 Jackson Drive
Paso Robles, CA 93446-1812
805.239.8112
805.674.5140 Cell
Message 91
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| Subject: | Wing tip strobes. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
I'm still debating the best way of arranging my lighting. Has anyone tried the
combination postion/strobe/tail lights, (Whelen A600PG/PR)? This seems the simplest
way to provide the lighting but I'm not quite convinced as to the ease
of mounting these to an RV wing tip to give the necessary coverage and also wonder
about the vulnerability issues.
Your thoughts please gentlemen.
Fly safe
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage.
Message 92
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| Subject: | Re: Engine's and insurance clarification |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
kempthornes wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
> I think John T is trying to get us to understand that lying or even fudging
> on the insurance declarations is just another way to rip yourself off. If
> I were an engine manufacturer, I would maintain that any engine that
> contained *ANY* part made by someone other than my firm would not be my
> engine. If the part were a spitting image made by someone else, not my
> engine. How can Lycoming be responsible for something made by Superior?
With this in mind, it makes John's statement earlier even more confusing,
though (see below). If changing the ignition system is "okay", then how
about changing one cylinder out for a Superior (no pun intended)
replacement, PMA cylinder? Does that make your insurance invalid? How
about two cylinders?
This is exactly what pisses me off about insurance, the fact that it's so
vague as to appear that you're going to get scr*wed if you ever have to make
a claim, because the adjuster is going to pull the old "but this clause
buried at the bottom of page 327, in the footnote, says you're not covered
if your first name starts with 'R'".
John Helms wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> The underwriting rules that the companies follow apply no matter what type
> of coverages are being requested or offered.
>
> As for the ignition system alterations, that should be no problem.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Engines VS Certificated Engines &
> Insurance Rates..Is it a Duck?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb@msn.com>
>
> Does all this discussion pertain to hull insurance or liability regarding
> "experimental" engines. Will the insurance companies in general write
> liability for an engine that has a lightspeed ignition on one side?
>
> Bernie Kerr, stock new 0-320 DIA in 6A, building 9A with rotary
--
---------
Rob Prior
rv7 "at" b4.ca
-----------------------------
Stop dreaming... Start flying
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'
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