Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:35 AM - Re: Constitutionality of FAA/TSA rule 14293 (Jim Sears)
2. 03:55 AM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (Jerry Calvert)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: RV-7A Photo? (Dana Overall)
4. 05:35 AM - Re: Cycling Voltage Question (Wayne R. Couture)
5. 05:38 AM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (Doug Rozendaal)
6. 07:21 AM - Re: Cycling Voltage Question (Doug Weiler)
7. 07:21 AM - Re: Cycling Voltage Question (Dave Bristol)
8. 07:38 AM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (Dave Bristol)
9. 07:55 AM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (RV6 Flyer)
10. 09:04 AM - RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (Mark Antenbring)
11. 09:22 AM - Re: Parts/Assemblies with Accelerated Wear/Breakage (Chris Good)
12. 09:45 AM - Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (Phil Birkelbach)
13. 10:02 AM - Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (Rob Prior)
14. 10:31 AM - Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
15. 10:58 AM - Baffles - a baffling question (Ernest Kells)
16. 11:20 AM - Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (Phil Birkelbach)
17. 11:43 AM - Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (Neil McLeod)
18. 12:03 PM - Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? (RV4)
19. 12:38 PM - [Fw: Re: RV7 Replacement Rudder Status?] (Rob Prior)
20. 02:08 PM - off topic request (Chris)
21. 02:41 PM - Re: off topic request (Jim Daniels)
22. 03:43 PM - Re: RV-7A Photo? (Bobby Hester)
23. 03:54 PM - Re: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!! (Bobby Hester)
24. 04:19 PM - Re: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!! (Jim Jewell)
25. 04:42 PM - Re: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!! (Konrad Werner)
26. 04:42 PM - Aileron bracket interferes with flap hinge (thomas a. sargent)
27. 05:41 PM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (George McNutt)
28. 06:13 PM - Re: Century I help (JVanLaak@aol.com)
29. 06:36 PM - Re: off topic request (Mark Phillips)
30. 06:39 PM - Pogo got it right (Rick Galati)
31. 07:16 PM - Re: Pogo got it right (Neil McLeod)
32. 07:48 PM - Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request (ron dewees)
33. 07:56 PM - Re: Pogo got it right (Mark Phillips)
34. 10:28 PM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (Jerry Calvert)
35. 11:27 PM - Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? (Meketa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Constitutionality of FAA/TSA rule 14293 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
Having watched this issue with interest, and the fact that I did comment on
the docket item as well, I thought you might like to see what came out in
the AOPA weekly newsletter this morning. Whether it's a "right to fly", or
not, makes no difference to me if some fella with dark sunglasses comes up
to me and tells me I'm a security risk, even though I'm a Vet, and takes my
ticket with no recourse. Thank goodness we have AOPA to help us with this
matter. You are a member, aren't you?
Jim Sears in KY
AOPA TO CHALLENGE NEW SECURITY RULE
AOPA President Phil Boyer told a gathering of some 400 pilots Tuesday night
that the new Transportation Security Administration (TSA)/FAA security rule
allowing the FAA to revoke pilot certificates goes too far. He vowed that
AOPA will challenge portions of the rule that tread on pilot rights. "We
certainly support lawful efforts to prevent terrorists from using aircraft
to attack the United States," Boyer said during an AOPA Pilot Town Meeting
in Baltimore, "but this rule smacks of McCarthyism. The TSA has become
judge, jury, and executioner. What's happened to due process?"
Last Friday, TSA and the FAA implemented new rules that direct the FAA to
revoke the pilot certificate of anyone that TSA determines is a threat to
transportation or national security. But the process provides no independent
review. A pilot can only appeal the threat determination back to TSA--and
TSA, because of national security concerns, doesn't have to reveal the
information implicating the pilot. Boyer said that AOPA legal and technical
staff are already researching the new rules, noting that AOPA's legal
counsel's
preliminary opinion is that TSA exceeded the authority Congress had granted
it. Boyer said that AOPA immediately brought its concerns to TSA management.
And Boyer will begin personally presenting those same concerns to members of
Congress next week.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
If you are using a main bus and essential bus technology like in Bob N's
book, you won't need a seperate starter enable switch. I set mine up where
the mag has a toggle switch and the electronic ignition has a toggle
switch. The starter button is wired into these toggles for power. When
the switches are in the start position which is MAG OFF and EI ON, you can
push the starter button and start the engine. When the mag and EI are both
off or both on, there is no power to the starter button. The wiring for
this setup is in the book.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 N296JC(res)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lane" <jlane@crosscountybank.com>
Subject: RV-List: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Lane" <jlane@crosscountybank.com>
>
> CAN SOMEONE PLEASE RECOMMEND A SPECIFIC BRAND OR SOURCE OF A STARTER
ENABLE SWITCH FOR USE WITH THE INFINITY STICK GRIPS FOR DISABLING THE
STARTER FUNCTION THAT YOU LIKE THE LOOKS AND SIZE OF ? I HAVE HEARD SOME
REFER TO SOMETHING OTHER THAT A TOGGLE SWITCH. PERHAPS ONE THAT YOU HAVE TO
LIFT A COVER TO ENABLE ?
>
> THANKS IN ADVANCE,
>
> JIM
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7A Photo? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Anybody who wants a good 7A pic go to Van's page then click on Bobby Hesters
page on the links. The bottom of his page has a pic of the 7A that is going
through it's flight testing requirements in KY right now.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
>From: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: RV-7A Photo?
>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:43:57 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>Anyone have a high resolution digital photo of a completed RV-7A ? I would
>like to have a photo I could take to Kinko's and have reproduced into
>poster size to hang on my 'workshop/garage' wall. Friends and neighbors
>would then be able to see what the heck I'm building and it will also
>provide some good 'motivation' when the going gets tough.... :-)
>
>Van's has a poster for the RV-7, but not an RV-7A. :-(.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Jack Lockamy #71103
>Camarillo, CA
>empennage complete, waiting on QB fuse and wing
>0-320 (178 HP), C/S, slider, IFR
>www.jacklockamy.com
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cycling Voltage Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
I'd suspect a bad voltage regulator!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <N8292W@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cycling Voltage Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: N8292W@aol.com
>
>
> I have about 16 hours on my RV-4 and have a question. My voltmeter and
> ammeter cycle between 13-14.5 V on the voltmeter and between 5-10 amps
every
> 1/2 second or so. The volt meter rapidly rises from 13 volts to 14.5
volts
> and back almost like the voltage is rising, gets too high, cuts out, drops
> below 13 volts, kicks back in, rises to 14.5 volts, cuts out...... It
just
> rapidly cycles up and down. I have tried adjusting the voltage regulator
> lower but does not seem to help the cycling.....
>
> I have a 35 amp Van's supplied alternator, a Van's supplied $35ish voltage
> regulator, and an Aeroelectric overvoltage protection device. This issue
> does not seem to cause any problems, but it does not seem right.
>
> Last night I turned on all my electrical accessories and it seemed to
steady
> out at about 13 V, but if I turn off just a couple of items, it goes right
> back to cycling. I don't understand what is going on or if it is an
issue,
> but it just does not seem right. Does anyone have any ideas on what to
check?
>
> Thanks
> Mike Kraus
> N223RV - 16 hours and loving it!
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
I would like to share my thoughts about this, "starter on the stick" as well
as other, non-standard controls in general. Everything here is opinion,
fuel for discussion, and not intended as a personal attack directed at
anyone. Just some thoughts from someone who flies many different airplanes
on a regular basis.
Let me share a simple example. In WWII the radio PTT was on the throttle
and the gun was on the stick. The P-51 that I fly is true to this
configuration. It is a good thing the P-51 doesn't have real 50's. Every
weekend, I try to talk on the guns at least a couple times.
The nicest, and the safest airplanes I fly, are those that most closely
match the controls you find in a "store bought" airplane. Numerous
functions on the stick are fine in an F-16 where pilots fly one and only one
type of airplane, spend hours and hours of intense training in a specific
airplane, drilling and drilling emergency procedures.
I have NEVER flown with a civil pilot in a recreational airplane with that
kind of discipline and training regime. Further, even if a civil pilot did,
sooner or later, someone else is going to fly your airplane.
What happens to them when they get in the airplane and can't figure out how
to start the blasted thing? Even worse, what if fire goes out, and you, or
the "guest pilot" or new owner of your beautiful chariot, amid the confusion
of an emergency, forget which buttons, or what switches must be where, to
engage the starter?
I know that some will say that experimental airplanes should not be trapped
by the status quo, true. However non-standard controls need to be
justified with performance improvements, and placarded as clearly as
possible for others who fly your airplane.
My personal OPINION is that "starter on the stick" does not meet that
standard. Without the "enable switch" certainly there will be inadvertant
engagement, and with the switch, it will add to the workload when you want
to get cranking in a hurry. One message in this thread described a system
where the mag / distributor switches had to be in a certain configuratioin
to engage the starter. My OPINION is placarding that in an manner that
could be understood by a "guest pilot" would be difficult at best.
Trim controls, autopilot disconnect, and PTT buttons are standard
"essential" functions on the stick. Flip-Flop frequencys, Xponder Ident
buttons, checklist buttons, and other "non-essential" functions are great!
IMHO Flaps, gear, starter and other "essential" functions should be
standardized as much as possible.
Just my thoughts
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cycling Voltage Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
I had this very same problem with my RV-4 which had one of Van's 35 amp
alternators (it was 10 years old and 700 hours). I ended up replacing both
the alternator and the VR and the problem was cured.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
>
> I'd suspect a bad voltage regulator!
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <N8292W@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Cycling Voltage Question
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: N8292W@aol.com
> >
> >
> > I have about 16 hours on my RV-4 and have a question. My voltmeter and
> > ammeter cycle between 13-14.5 V on the voltmeter and between 5-10 amps
> every
> > 1/2 second or so. The volt meter rapidly rises from 13 volts to 14.5
> volts
> > and back almost like the voltage is rising, gets too high, cuts out,
drops
> > below 13 volts, kicks back in, rises to 14.5 volts, cuts out...... It
> just
> > rapidly cycles up and down. I have tried adjusting the voltage
regulator
> > lower but does not seem to help the cycling.....
> >
> > I have a 35 amp Van's supplied alternator, a Van's supplied $35ish
voltage
> > regulator, and an Aeroelectric overvoltage protection device. This
issue
> > does not seem to cause any problems, but it does not seem right.
> >
> > Last night I turned on all my electrical accessories and it seemed to
> steady
> > out at about 13 V, but if I turn off just a couple of items, it goes
right
> > back to cycling. I don't understand what is going on or if it is an
> issue,
> > but it just does not seem right. Does anyone have any ideas on what to
> check?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mike Kraus
> > N223RV - 16 hours and loving it!
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cycling Voltage Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Mike,
For what it's worth, mine does the same thing, same alternator and regulator and
it's done it since day one - 2 1/2 years. I suspect that it's the regulator but
since I don't have electronic ignition and don't fly IFR it isn't a big deal if
it quits. But, I will be interested in what you find.
Dave
do not archive
N8292W@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: N8292W@aol.com
>
> I have about 16 hours on my RV-4 and have a question. My voltmeter and
> ammeter cycle between 13-14.5 V on the voltmeter and between 5-10 amps every
> 1/2 second or so. The volt meter rapidly rises from 13 volts to 14.5 volts
> and back almost like the voltage is rising, gets too high, cuts out, drops
> below 13 volts, kicks back in, rises to 14.5 volts, cuts out...... It just
> rapidly cycles up and down. I have tried adjusting the voltage regulator
> lower but does not seem to help the cycling.....
>
> I have a 35 amp Van's supplied alternator, a Van's supplied $35ish voltage
> regulator, and an Aeroelectric overvoltage protection device. This issue
> does not seem to cause any problems, but it does not seem right.
>
> Last night I turned on all my electrical accessories and it seemed to steady
> out at about 13 V, but if I turn off just a couple of items, it goes right
> back to cycling. I don't understand what is going on or if it is an issue,
> but it just does not seem right. Does anyone have any ideas on what to check?
>
> Thanks
> Mike Kraus
> N223RV - 16 hours and loving it!
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Thank you Doug, as an EAA Technical Counselor I've been echoing these thoughts
for 30 years. I've seen some really wild electrical systems that would baffle
almost anyone and I contend that "non standard" control systems are a definite
safety hazard. I love to experiment with electrical systems - it's been my
vocation and avocation for 45 years but PLEASE be careful what you do in your
airplane - don't compromise safety.
Dave Bristol, RV6, EAA Tech. Counselor
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> I would like to share my thoughts about this, "starter on the stick" as well
> as other, non-standard controls in general. Everything here is opinion,
> fuel for discussion, and not intended as a personal attack directed at
> anyone. Just some thoughts from someone who flies many different airplanes
> on a regular basis.
>
> Let me share a simple example. In WWII the radio PTT was on the throttle
> and the gun was on the stick. The P-51 that I fly is true to this
> configuration. It is a good thing the P-51 doesn't have real 50's. Every
> weekend, I try to talk on the guns at least a couple times.
>
> The nicest, and the safest airplanes I fly, are those that most closely
> match the controls you find in a "store bought" airplane. Numerous
> functions on the stick are fine in an F-16 where pilots fly one and only one
> type of airplane, spend hours and hours of intense training in a specific
> airplane, drilling and drilling emergency procedures.
>
> I have NEVER flown with a civil pilot in a recreational airplane with that
> kind of discipline and training regime. Further, even if a civil pilot did,
> sooner or later, someone else is going to fly your airplane.
>
> What happens to them when they get in the airplane and can't figure out how
> to start the blasted thing? Even worse, what if fire goes out, and you, or
> the "guest pilot" or new owner of your beautiful chariot, amid the confusion
> of an emergency, forget which buttons, or what switches must be where, to
> engage the starter?
>
> I know that some will say that experimental airplanes should not be trapped
> by the status quo, true. However non-standard controls need to be
> justified with performance improvements, and placarded as clearly as
> possible for others who fly your airplane.
>
> My personal OPINION is that "starter on the stick" does not meet that
> standard. Without the "enable switch" certainly there will be inadvertant
> engagement, and with the switch, it will add to the workload when you want
> to get cranking in a hurry. One message in this thread described a system
> where the mag / distributor switches had to be in a certain configuratioin
> to engage the starter. My OPINION is placarding that in an manner that
> could be understood by a "guest pilot" would be difficult at best.
>
> Trim controls, autopilot disconnect, and PTT buttons are standard
> "essential" functions on the stick. Flip-Flop frequencys, Xponder Ident
> buttons, checklist buttons, and other "non-essential" functions are great!
>
> IMHO Flaps, gear, starter and other "essential" functions should be
> standardized as much as possible.
>
> Just my thoughts
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Amen.
As an Electrical Engineer, A&P, and EAA Tech Counselor that flys a lot, I
agree 100%.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,248 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
I would like to share my thoughts about this, "starter on the stick" as well
as other, non-standard controls in general. Everything here is opinion,
fuel for discussion, and not intended as a personal attack directed at
anyone. Just some thoughts from someone who flies many different airplanes
on a regular basis.
Let me share a simple example. In WWII the radio PTT was on the throttle
and the gun was on the stick. The P-51 that I fly is true to this
configuration. It is a good thing the P-51 doesn't have real 50's. Every
weekend, I try to talk on the guns at least a couple times.
The nicest, and the safest airplanes I fly, are those that most closely
match the controls you find in a "store bought" airplane. Numerous
functions on the stick are fine in an F-16 where pilots fly one and only one
type of airplane, spend hours and hours of intense training in a specific
airplane, drilling and drilling emergency procedures.
I have NEVER flown with a civil pilot in a recreational airplane with that
kind of discipline and training regime. Further, even if a civil pilot did,
sooner or later, someone else is going to fly your airplane.
What happens to them when they get in the airplane and can't figure out how
to start the blasted thing? Even worse, what if fire goes out, and you, or
the "guest pilot" or new owner of your beautiful chariot, amid the confusion
of an emergency, forget which buttons, or what switches must be where, to
engage the starter?
I know that some will say that experimental airplanes should not be trapped
by the status quo, true. However non-standard controls need to be
justified with performance improvements, and placarded as clearly as
possible for others who fly your airplane.
My personal OPINION is that "starter on the stick" does not meet that
standard. Without the "enable switch" certainly there will be inadvertant
engagement, and with the switch, it will add to the workload when you want
to get cranking in a hurry. One message in this thread described a system
where the mag / distributor switches had to be in a certain configuratioin
to engage the starter. My OPINION is placarding that in an manner that
could be understood by a "guest pilot" would be difficult at best.
Trim controls, autopilot disconnect, and PTT buttons are standard
"essential" functions on the stick. Flip-Flop frequencys, Xponder Ident
buttons, checklist buttons, and other "non-essential" functions are great!
IMHO Flaps, gear, starter and other "essential" functions should be
standardized as much as possible.
Just my thoughts
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the lowest
priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
Mark
RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
Do no archive.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Parts/Assemblies with Accelerated Wear/Breakage |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood@lycos.com>
I would add:
Cracks in engine baffling - may be more of an issue on my 6A with an aluminum plenum
cover.
Cracks in oil cooler mounting, if baffle mounted.
Failure of cowling hinge.
Cracks in air filter mounting plate - after this happened I added a bracing strut
when I replaced the plate.
Regards,
Chris Good
West Bend, WI
RV-6A N86CG, 490 hrs
--
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:21:29
Kyle Boatright wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
>
>It is time again for my condition inspection, and this brings to mind several
areas where builders/owners have experienced premature wear or failures. These
are the items I came up with:
>
>- Exhaust mounting hardware (Failure mode - cracks at bends)
>- Engine/Gear mount (Failure mode - cracks due to gear leg shimmy or hard landings)
>- Carb heat cable (Failure mode - fails where it enters fitting)
>
>I'm sure there are other parts of the aircraft which may be more wear/failure
prone. I'd like to take a good look at each of them while I'm doing my condition
inspection this weekend, and I'm sure a list of these potential problem areas
would be of benefit to everyone in the RV community.
>
>What else can be added to the list?
>
>KB
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Mine came in the finish kit. They haven't forgotten. They probably won't
ship them separate, and I can't blame them. There were over a thousand kits
out there when they discovered the rudder problem and 1000 multiplied by
whatever it would cost them to UPS the rudder to you would be tens of
thousands of dollars so I wouldn't look for the new rudder until you order
the next major kit, and then don't be disappointed if it doesn't come.
Don't worry there is plenty to do. :-)
Godspeed,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
<mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
>
> Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
> replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the lowest
> priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
> Mark
> RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
> Do no archive.
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
I haven't heard anything either, but thanks for the reminder as I keep
forgetting to contact them to ask about it. I just sent an email asking
for an update, and will pass on any useful info I get back.
-RB4
Do not archive
Mark Antenbring wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
>
> Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
> replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the lowest
> priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
> Mark
> RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
> Do no archive.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
What exactly was the problem with the rudders on the RV7s? (Please forgive
me if this has already been discussed).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> Mine came in the finish kit. They haven't forgotten. They probably won't
> ship them separate, and I can't blame them. There were over a thousand
kits
> out there when they discovered the rudder problem and 1000 multiplied by
> whatever it would cost them to UPS the rudder to you would be tens of
> thousands of dollars so I wouldn't look for the new rudder until you order
> the next major kit, and then don't be disappointed if it doesn't come.
> Don't worry there is plenty to do. :-)
>
> Godspeed,
> Phil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
> <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> >
> > Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
> > replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the lowest
> > priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
> > Mark
> > RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
> > Do no archive.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Baffles - a baffling question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
I am scratch building my own baffles. Unfortunately, Vans doesn't offer a
solution for an RV-9A with an O-235. Does everyone install the rear
baffles straight across the back of the engine?? On my very low time O-235
I detect a gummy residue showing that the baffle on the right side had a dog
leg around the adjustable Oil Relief Valve plug (see Fig 7-1 of the Lyc.
Overhaul Manual). This doesn't make sense (IMHO????). My guess is that it
was routed (to exclude this assembly) so that the builder would not have to
deal with the top/right engine mount.
I don't see why this assembly could not face the air coming across the top
of the engine. Whadya think?? Thanks ( do not archive - Vans should
solve this problem quickly )
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 85% Complete
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
It wasn't really a 'problem'. During the flight testing of the prototype
RV-7 Van hired a professional test pilot to do some spin testing. It turned
out that the recovery from a fully developed spin was slower than Van wanted
so he put an RV-9 rudder on the RV-7 and it improved the spin recovery
performance. Van decided that from that point on all RV-7's would come with
the RV-9 rudder and anyone that already had a kit could get one free of
charge. Pretty good service if you ask me.
Godspeed,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
<DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> What exactly was the problem with the rudders on the RV7s? (Please
forgive
> me if this has already been discussed).
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> >
> > Mine came in the finish kit. They haven't forgotten. They probably
won't
> > ship them separate, and I can't blame them. There were over a thousand
> kits
> > out there when they discovered the rudder problem and 1000 multiplied by
> > whatever it would cost them to UPS the rudder to you would be tens of
> > thousands of dollars so I wouldn't look for the new rudder until you
order
> > the next major kit, and then don't be disappointed if it doesn't come.
> > Don't worry there is plenty to do. :-)
> >
> > Godspeed,
> > Phil
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
> > <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> > >
> > > Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
> > > replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the lowest
> > > priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
> > > Mark
> > > RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
> > > Do no archive.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock@theriver.com>
I got mine when I got the finish kit.
Neil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> It wasn't really a 'problem'. During the flight testing of the prototype
> RV-7 Van hired a professional test pilot to do some spin testing. It
turned
> out that the recovery from a fully developed spin was slower than Van
wanted
> so he put an RV-9 rudder on the RV-7 and it improved the spin recovery
> performance. Van decided that from that point on all RV-7's would come
with
> the RV-9 rudder and anyone that already had a kit could get one free of
> charge. Pretty good service if you ask me.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
> <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> >
> > What exactly was the problem with the rudders on the RV7s? (Please
> forgive
> > me if this has already been discussed).
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> > >
> > > Mine came in the finish kit. They haven't forgotten. They probably
> won't
> > > ship them separate, and I can't blame them. There were over a
thousand
> > kits
> > > out there when they discovered the rudder problem and 1000 multiplied
by
> > > whatever it would cost them to UPS the rudder to you would be tens of
> > > thousands of dollars so I wouldn't look for the new rudder until you
> order
> > > the next major kit, and then don't be disappointed if it doesn't come.
> > > Don't worry there is plenty to do. :-)
> > >
> > > Godspeed,
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> > > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
> > > <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
> > > > replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the
lowest
> > > > priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
> > > > Mark
> > > > RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
> > > > Do no archive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV4" <VansRV4GRVMJ@btinternet.com>
I believe disappointing recovery during spin testing. I've just finished the
tailkit of an RV7, and I would live with the old folded skin rudder. The two
piece RV9 rudder is more difficult to built, because of the double flush
rivetted trailing edge, that is, if you want a straight trailing edge.
Marcel
RV7#1125
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
<DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> What exactly was the problem with the rudders on the RV7s? (Please
forgive
> me if this has already been discussed).
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> >
> > Mine came in the finish kit. They haven't forgotten. They probably
won't
> > ship them separate, and I can't blame them. There were over a thousand
> kits
> > out there when they discovered the rudder problem and 1000 multiplied by
> > whatever it would cost them to UPS the rudder to you would be tens of
> > thousands of dollars so I wouldn't look for the new rudder until you
order
> > the next major kit, and then don't be disappointed if it doesn't come.
> > Don't worry there is plenty to do. :-)
> >
> > Godspeed,
> > Phil
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: RV7 Rudder - anyone got their replacement yet?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
> > <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
> > >
> > > Has anyone that's still working on the -7 empennage, received the
> > > replacement RV9 rudder yet? I know empennage builders have the lowest
> > > priority, but it's been about 8 months for me. Just curious.
> > > Mark
> > > RV7 (starting on the old rudder in case they forgot about me)
> > > Do no archive.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Re: RV7 Replacement Rudder Status?] |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Here's the reply I just received from Vans re: new Rudders for
Empennage-kit-only owners.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: RV7 Replacement Rudder Status?
We are just starting on the wing kit owners now, so it will be some
months, unless you order a wing kit in which case we would ship it
with that.
Vans
On 31 Jan 03, at 9:58, Rob Prior wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've been meaning to contact you to ask about this for a month or two,
> but it keeps slipping my mind while i'm near my email...
>
> I'm building an RV-7 Empennage right now, and received my notice that
> there would be a replacement Rudder for me. I sent my form back
> registering for the replacement about a month after I got it, so
> coupled with the fact that i'm only working on my Empennage kit that
> means i'm probably not high on the list for replacement urgency... 8-)
>
> Still, it's been a few months now, and i've heard nothing. Can
> someone check and see where I am on the list?
Message 20
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|
<ExperimentalAvionics@yahoogroups.com>,
RV-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | off topic request |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
Sorry for the off topic request but I am out of options. I need a 20A
DPDT (ON) OFF (ON) switch. I have searched digikey.com mouser.com and
mcmaster.com all with no luck. Please help.
do not archive
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: off topic request |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Daniels <jwdanie@comcast.net>
On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 03:06 PM, Chris wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
> Sorry for the off topic request but I am out of options. I need a 20A
> DPDT (ON) OFF (ON) switch. I have searched digikey.com mouser.com and
> mcmaster.com all with no luck. Please help.
>
>
> do not archive
Newark Electronics
Eaton (Cutler-Hammer)
23F317 MS35059-27 (ON)-OFF-(ON) 20A@28VDC $29.63 each
http://www.newark.com/product-details/text/CD120/4905.html
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-7A Photo? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
The only RV7A, I've seen is the one at the bottom of my home page, I'll
send you it at it's full size.
Jack Lockamy wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>Anyone have a high resolution digital photo of a completed RV-7A ?
>
>
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
Rans S12xl For Sale: http://www.spitfire.org/bhester/s12.html or
http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/NewSite/Ranss12xlForSale.html
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Anyone that wants to be blown away should blow yourself away! You blew
yourself on the list. :-)
>
>
>
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
Rans S12xl For Sale: http://www.spitfire.org/bhester/s12.html or
http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/NewSite/Ranss12xlForSale.html
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
I think it's possible that someone else put him on the list for whom knows
what reason?!
do not archive
Jim in Kelowna----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR
LIST!!!!!!!!!
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> Anyone that wants to be blown away should blow yourself away! You blew
> yourself on the list. :-)
>
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Working on the wings :-)
> Rans S12xl For Sale: http://www.spitfire.org/bhester/s12.html or
> http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/NewSite/Ranss12xlForSale.html
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: i DONT WANT YOUR EMAILS,BLOW ME AWAY FROM YOUR
LIST!!!!!!!!!
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> Anyone that wants to be blown away should blow yourself away! You blew
> yourself on the list. :-)
Hey Bobby,
Let's help the man out, as he's begging for it !
BLOW HIM AWAY AND MAKE HIS DAY!
Do Not Archive
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Aileron bracket interferes with flap hinge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.com>
I am doing the control linkages on my RV-6A quick build and have
discovered that when I try to deflect the aileron upward, the A-607
bracket (that's the one on the inboard end of the aileron) doesn't quite
miss the flap hinge. It hits it about 1/8" in from the end of the
hinge. Were the aileron to go to full up deflection, the a-607 bracket
would intrude about 4mm into the hinge - that's just the thickness of
the hinge eye.
The easiest thing to do is cut off that hinge eye. But it occurs to me
that instead, cutting a 4mm x 4mm notch in the A-607 bracket might be
better since it would then be impossible for the aileron to ever be
fouled by the flap hinge pin, should its safety somehow fail and the
thing manage to back out (move outboard).
Has anyone dealt with such an interference?
--
Tom Sargent
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
If you are using a main bus and essential bus technology like in Bob N's
book, you won't need a seperate starter enable switch.
----------snip----------------
When the mag and EI are both off or both on, there is no power to the
starter button. The wiring for this setup is in the book.
Hi Jerry
Does this mean that a pilot would be unable to attempt an airstart without
manipulating mag switches?
I agree with the other posts about non-standard switches and controls. There
are numerous threads about liability in the archives, this would be a
liability worry issue for me after I sold the aircraft.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
115 hrs - 6A
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Century I help |
--> RV-List message posted by: JVanLaak@aol.com
Don,
Thanks for all of the help. I hope I am luckier than you on the gyro. My
instrument shop friend says they usually run forever. Simpler is better.
Jim
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: off topic request |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Chris- I just received such a switch as a "sample", gratis from NKK-
#S338R - it has a plastic "paddle" cover on the handle ("bat handle"
examples are #S338)-and looks like fine quality stuff- using for flaps
on my RV- go to:
http://www.nkkswitches.com/
and click on "Order samples at Switchzone" in the upper right hand
corner f their homepage- if I ever start an RV assembly line, these
folks will certainly be my switch supplier!! 8-)
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Chris wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
> Sorry for the off topic request but I am out of options. I need a 20A
> DPDT (ON) OFF (ON) switch. I have searched digikey.com mouser.com and
> mcmaster.com all with no luck. Please help.
>
>
> do not archive
>
> --
> Chris Woodhouse
> 3147 SW 127th St.
> Oklahoma City, OK 73170
> 405-691-5206 (home)
> chrisw@programmer.net
> N35 20.492'
> W97 34.342'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Pogo got it right |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
Lets see, there
are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA? I'm sure
that more than one participant of this list knows the precise number
and any one of a usual number of suspects are predictably quick to
offer up a dutiful correction. Yet, where is that glibness when a new rule
visits the Republic that makes a mockery of due process, and singles out FAA
certificate holders for special Orwellian consideration? Oh, we can
read lots of whining and complaining about FAA-2003-14293 on this board and
elsewhere. The usual passionate arguments are oft repeated to a rapt
and righteous choir of the like-minded. Mostly this staple consists
of boiler plate fodder including such blue-plate specials such as
constitutional guarantees, due process, the well known price of giving up
liberty for temporary security, privileges versus rights..... heady stuff
like that. But an all too human condition is playing itself out
among our brethren yet again. What is occurring within our flying
fraternity is certainly not unique to any special interest group such as those
who participate in this forum, but nonetheless is indicative of a larger
American condition. Out of 600,000 pilots, you would think the
vast majority would have at least some small interest in preserving their
freedom of flight that goes beyond engaging in casual, if at times lively chit
chat among the like-minded. This is the impression one can certainly
get based on some of the more outrageous sound bites masquerading as outrage we
can read over and over again. A few minutes ago, when I lasted
checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a
miniscule and pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred
Thousand licensed pilots have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY HEARD in
a
governmental forum where that personal comment can at least in some small way
count for something. What is it about going on record that brings out
the "anonymous" in a few and renders the majority of people suddenly mute and
stopped cold in their self interested tracks?
Rick Galati
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Pogo got it right |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <neilmcleod@direcway.com>
Point well taken, there is at least oone more comment there now!
Neil McLeod
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Pogo got it right
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" <rick07x@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Lets see, there
> are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA? I'm sure
> that more than one participant of this list knows the precise number
> and any one of a usual number of suspects are predictably quick to
> offer up a dutiful correction. Yet, where is that glibness when a new rule
> visits the Republic that makes a mockery of due process, and singles out
FAA
> certificate holders for special Orwellian consideration? Oh, we can
> read lots of whining and complaining about FAA-2003-14293 on this board
and
> elsewhere. The usual passionate arguments are oft repeated to a rapt
> and righteous choir of the like-minded. Mostly this staple consists
> of boiler plate fodder including such blue-plate specials such as
> constitutional guarantees, due process, the well known price of giving up
> liberty for temporary security, privileges versus rights..... heady stuff
> like that. But an all too human condition is playing itself out
> among our brethren yet again. What is occurring within our flying
> fraternity is certainly not unique to any special interest group such as
those
> who participate in this forum, but nonetheless is indicative of a larger
> American condition. Out of 600,000 pilots, you would think the
> vast majority would have at least some small interest in preserving their
> freedom of flight that goes beyond engaging in casual, if at times lively
chit
> chat among the like-minded. This is the impression one can certainly
> get based on some of the more outrageous sound bites masquerading as
outrage we
> can read over and over again. A few minutes ago, when I lasted
> checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a
> miniscule and pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred
> Thousand licensed pilots have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY
HEARD in a
> governmental forum where that personal comment can at least in some small
way
> count for something. What is it about going on record that brings out
> the "anonymous" in a few and renders the majority of people suddenly mute
and
> stopped cold in their self interested tracks?
>
> Rick Galati
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request |
--> RV-List message posted by: "ron dewees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay to
handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can be
VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the ground
twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC is
only good for about 1/10th that in DC. It arched across the contacts and
shut the magneto off by grounding it. If you do go with a switch and it
operates on DC, make sure the switch has the current rating you need for DC
Hope this helps someone avoid my impromptu soaring lession
Ron DeWees
Atlanta, Ga
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall M. Dues" <mmdues@hal-pc.org>
Subject: Re: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request
> Chris and all,
>
> For switching rather high current (10 to 20 amp) circuits, it is better
> to use a lesser rated switch to control a small Bosch type relay that
> uses 30 to 40 amp contacts to turn on the heavier loads, like landing
> lights, etc. These little relays are popular in most German vehicles.
> They are available at most auto parts stores. I used them exclusively
> to turn on halogen type landing and taxi lights on my RV-6. Never had a
> failure in 675 hours. Switching heavy currents through a toggle switch
> makes for relatively short life of the switch. The contacts arc each
> time they make and break, and soon they either weld themselves shut, or
> simply carbon themselves over and won't make next time they are turned
> on. And your request is certainly not off topic - it falls in the realm
> of wiring our RVs.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Marshall Dues
> Katy, Texas
> RV-6 N243MD
> Based: KDWH airport
> Spring, TX
>
>
> >
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Pogo got it right |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Thanks, Rick- unfortunately sometimes I'm afraid we ARE the enemy...
Y'all git off yer butts and get them comments in!!!!!!!
Mark - do not archive
Rick Galati wrote:
> Lets see, there
> are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA?
A few minutes ago, when I lasted checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a miniscule and
pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred Thousand licensed pilots
have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY HEARD in a governmental forum where
that personal comment can at least in some small way count for something.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Hello George,
I haven't flown a great variety of aircraft, but I have noticed differences
in checklists and procedures from aircraft to aircraft. I would wager that
the emergency procedures listed in the POH and on checklists from RV to RV
would also vary due to the freedom of the builders to experiment with
configurations. There is no standard setup that must be followed. For
that very reason, any pilot who doesn't take time to know the aircraft and
the emergency procedures for THAT aircraft is asking for problems. I would
hope previous owners are not liable for the stupidity of the new owner, but
with today's court system...who knows.
Good point though.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
>
> If you are using a main bus and essential bus technology like in Bob N's
> book, you won't need a seperate starter enable switch.
>
> ----------snip----------------
>
> When the mag and EI are both off or both on, there is no power to the
> starter button. The wiring for this setup is in the book.
>
>
> Hi Jerry
>
> Does this mean that a pilot would be unable to attempt an airstart without
> manipulating mag switches?
>
> I agree with the other posts about non-standard switches and controls.
There
> are numerous threads about liability in the archives, this would be a
> liability worry issue for me after I sold the aircraft.
>
> George McNutt
> Langley, B.C.
> 115 hrs - 6A
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: STARTER ENABLE SWITCH ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" <acgm@gvtc.com>
Hello Yall,
This thread started out as an enable switch question so I will answer that
first. The S700-2-50 on-on-(on) switch from B&C works well. The first
click up enables the grip and the momentary position can be used if there
was a grip problem. I installed a relay activated by the grip and the
momentary position provides direct current to the starter. An aluminium
guard could be easily fabricated to help prevent accidental activation.
Mine is to the far side of a row of switches and requires no guard.
I have Infinity grips on my 8 with PTT, trim, flaps, and fuel pump on both
grips with a Copilot cutout switch. The front grip also has starter (with an
enable switch) and auto pilot select/altitude hold switches. It sounds like
a lot but is actually very easy and ergonomic and better than having
switches
in different places around the panel.
It would be difficult to have only one standard arangement for all
airplanes,
especially RVs. A tandem with a left hand throttle quadrand is very
different
from a side by side with vernier controls. Anyway, no pilot should fly a
new
airplane without becoming familiar with all instuments, switches, controls,
etc. Switches on the grip are no more difficult to become famialiar with
than
a well laid out panel mounted switch arrangement. Just lay then out in a
logical
way.
If you want full dual controls in a tandem the grip route is the best way to
go.
Manual vernier trim on a 8 would not work for the back seater. Where
does one put the fuel pump and flap switches for the rear seater?
The best part about having functions on the grip is that the hands NEVER
have to leave the stick and throttle to start and fly the airplane. .
George Meketa
RV8, N444TX, 242.1 hours
> I would like to share my thoughts about this, "starter on the stick" as
well
> as other, non-standard controls in general. Everything here is opinion,
> fuel for discussion, and not intended as a personal attack directed at
> anyone. Just some thoughts from someone who flies many different
airplanes
> on a regular basis.
>
> Let me share a simple example. In WWII the radio PTT was on the throttle
> and the gun was on the stick. The P-51 that I fly is true to this
> configuration. It is a good thing the P-51 doesn't have real 50's. Every
> weekend, I try to talk on the guns at least a couple times.
>
> The nicest, and the safest airplanes I fly, are those that most closely
> match the controls you find in a "store bought" airplane. Numerous
> functions on the stick are fine in an F-16 where pilots fly one and only
one
> type of airplane, spend hours and hours of intense training in a specific
> airplane, drilling and drilling emergency procedures.
>
> I have NEVER flown with a civil pilot in a recreational airplane with that
> kind of discipline and training regime. Further, even if a civil pilot
did,
> sooner or later, someone else is going to fly your airplane.
>
> What happens to them when they get in the airplane and can't figure out
how
> to start the blasted thing? Even worse, what if fire goes out, and you,
or
> the "guest pilot" or new owner of your beautiful chariot, amid the
confusion
> of an emergency, forget which buttons, or what switches must be where, to
> engage the starter?
>
> I know that some will say that experimental airplanes should not be
trapped
> by the status quo, true. However non-standard controls need to be
> justified with performance improvements, and placarded as clearly as
> possible for others who fly your airplane.
>
> My personal OPINION is that "starter on the stick" does not meet that
> standard. Without the "enable switch" certainly there will be inadvertant
> engagement, and with the switch, it will add to the workload when you want
> to get cranking in a hurry. One message in this thread described a system
> where the mag / distributor switches had to be in a certain configuratioin
> to engage the starter. My OPINION is placarding that in an manner that
> could be understood by a "guest pilot" would be difficult at best.
>
> Trim controls, autopilot disconnect, and PTT buttons are standard
> "essential" functions on the stick. Flip-Flop frequencys, Xponder Ident
> buttons, checklist buttons, and other "non-essential" functions are great!
>
> IMHO Flaps, gear, starter and other "essential" functions should be
> standardized as much as possible.
>
> Just my thoughts
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
>
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