---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/03/03: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:50 AM - Lightening Strikes a Plane! (Bruce Swayze) 2. 05:11 AM - VOR Antenna for Vert. Stab. - RV-7 (Stucklen, Frederic IFC) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: Fw: Starter enable switch etc. (Doug Rozendaal) 4. 07:10 AM - Re: VOR Antenna for Vert. Stab. - RV-7 (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 5. 07:12 AM - >interior paint woes (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 6. 07:20 AM - Re: Pogo got it right (Van Artsdalen, Scott) 7. 07:22 AM - Re: Pogo got it right (Van Artsdalen, Scott) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: Pogo got it right (Van Artsdalen, Scott) 9. 07:27 AM - Re: Newest Airline (Van Artsdalen, Scott) 10. 07:35 AM - New Insurance Thread (terence.gannon@telus.net) 11. 07:47 AM - Re: New Insurance Thread (Glenn Brasch) 12. 08:11 AM - Re: interior paint woes (dcarter@datarecall.net) 13. 08:37 AM - Re: interior paint woes (Fabian Lefler) 14. 08:49 AM - Re: interior paint woes (Francis Malczynski) 15. 08:56 AM - Re: interior paint woes (lucky macy) 16. 09:45 AM - Re: interior paint woes (Elsa & Henry) 17. 10:23 AM - Re: Lightening Strikes a Plane! (Elsa & Henry) 18. 10:53 AM - Thanks, the RV-list still works (HCRV6@aol.com) 19. 10:57 AM - Re: Pogo got it right (Cy Galley) 20. 11:05 AM - Re: New Insurance Thread (Charlie & Tupper England) 21. 11:17 AM - RV7A tip-up canopy (sjhdcl@kingston.net) 22. 12:03 PM - DC Rating (was: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request) (Bill Dube) 23. 12:44 PM - Re: interior paint woes (Bill Dube) 24. 01:56 PM - O-360 powered Seraphim and Cherubim? (Rob W M Shipley) 25. 02:29 PM - Re: New Insurance Thread (DANIEL W WATTERS) 26. 02:58 PM - Fw: Remembering ... (C. Rabaut) 27. 03:52 PM - RV tools (Was: New Insurance Thread) (Bill Dube) 28. 04:03 PM - (Streiker, Stephen D (Steve), WHLSL) 29. 04:45 PM - RV list hint (Jim Jewell) 30. 07:09 PM - Sorry (DANIEL W WATTERS) 31. 07:58 PM - Re: (HalBenjamin@aol.com) 32. 09:27 PM - Sidetone (Mr Christopher McGough) 33. 09:35 PM - Re: Sorry (Konrad Werner) 34. 10:02 PM - Trim (Dave von Linsowe) 35. 10:39 PM - Sidetone (Chris Fordham) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:02 AM PST US From: Bruce Swayze Subject: RV-List: Lightening Strikes a Plane! --> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze Fellow Listers, This is admittedly a bit off subject, but the pictures are so amazing I just had to share them with all of you. A big plane is hit by lightening on take-off. The story as I heard it from a commercial pilot is that this happened in Hong Kong, and the aircraft circled back and landed for an inspection, and was then sent on its way with no apparent harm done. Hard to believe after seeing these pictures! It takes a few minutes to download, but worth the wait: http://lightning.pwr.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/lrg/temp/plane.html DO NOT ARCHIVE --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:51 AM PST US From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" Subject: RV-List: VOR Antenna for Vert. Stab. - RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" Ted, I too am an IFR pilot, and have flown my first RV-6A in hard IFR over the last 10 years. (I've recently sold N925RV so that I can complete the next IFR RV..) I had the VOR antenna mounted onto the top of the Vertical stab. The primary ILS receiver was a Narco 122A that had a special slitter separating the VOR, LOC, Glide Slope, and Marker beacons into the three inputs into this radio. Newer radios (like the UPS SL-30 and the SL-10SM audio panel with marker beacon) require a separate antenna for the marker beacon. Mounting the VOR/LOC/GS antenna on top of the vertical stab after construction should not be difficult if you haven't already mounted the fairing. The newer counter weight rudder design on the RV-7 & RV-8's don't allow as much room for this antenna, but it is sufficient. What I recommend is constructing a "U" shaped bracket that the VOR antenna can mount too, that fits upside down between the side skins. The bracket edges rest on the top edge of the vertical stab rib flange. The bracket should be wide enough to support the hockey puck part of the CI-159C VOR/GS antenna ( I think 2"..). Use nut plates for the antenna mounting bolts. The holes in the center of the bracket, and the vertical stabs top rib, should be large enough for the antenna coax connector to go through (the coax connects to the bottom of the hock puck). The vertical stab rib hole should have a plastic grommet to protect the coax and keep the coax from falling into the vertical stab when disconnected from the antenna. The bracket can be riveted to the skin, or screwed in place (use nut plates on the bracket). The vertical stab fairing is then notched such that it fits over the hockey puck part of the VOR antenna (which does protrude out over the edge of the skins). The fairing is then mounted with screws and nut plates so that the antenna can be serviced.... Hope that helps. I haven't constructed this part on the new plane (RV-6A with old rudder design) so I don't have any pictures. Fred Stucklen RV-6A -----Original Message----- From: Willke, Theodore L [mailto:theodore.l.willke@intel.com] Subject: VOR Antenna for Vert. Stab. - RV-7 Hi, I am a member of the RV-List and saw some archived discussion on your mounting of a VOR dipole antenna on the vertical stabilizer of your RV-6. I'm an IFR pilot that would like VOR/GS and LOC capability. I see that Van's offers a number of VOR AV parts. One in particular, the AV CI-215, is a VOR GS/LOC Antenna. It appears essentially like any other VOR dipole and would assume the mounting is similar. Anyway, I'm just starting the empennage kit and would greatly appreciate any insight you might have on: * The selection of a VOR dipole antenna for full IFR use * Parts needed to complete the installation in the vert. stab. and wire it up * At what points in the empennage build-up do I need to accommodate steps for antenna installation I was just about to start right in when I realized that there would be no way to mount the antenna on the tail if I completed the kit first and then purchased the antenna parts. From the list, I can see that many a builder have made this mistake and have been forced to mount the antenna in inferior locations, from a black-out and range point-of-view. Thanks So Much, Ted Willke PS - Congrats. on building a great RV example! ------------------------------ Ted L. Willke Server I/O Architecture Enterprise Platforms Group Intel Corporation DuPont, WA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:34 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: Starter enable switch etc. --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" snip > I have my mag switches set up so that the starter is only enabled if the > left impulse-coupled mag is on by itself. snip > From what I have heard, it is pretty hard to get the prop to stop > windmilling on a gliding RV, so airstarts generally wouldn't require the use > of the starter. snip Curt, My personal opinion here only, but I think when weighing memorizing what you have to do to start the airplane on the ground with a certain mag configuration vs. memorizing the configuration to make the prop turn in flight, I would vote for the former. Would a better solution be to copy, I am sorry but, a standard system that grounds the mag without the impulse coupling when you hit the starter? This could be easily done with a DPST switch that grounds the mag and engages the starter. As for the prop stopping, I have dead-sticked the panther many times, intentionally. It is a 160 hp, wooden climb prop, and a steel ring. The prop stops around 100 mph. If you just touch the starter, it is running. You are absolutely entitled to set up your airplane as you wish, but for those still wondering, I will continue to beat the drum, simple and standard is better. Just my thoughts. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:35 AM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: VOR Antenna for Vert. Stab. - RV-7 --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Hi All, Just thought I might add that the best operational NAV antenna is still the Sportcraft wingtip antenna. Sportcraft has a marker beacon antenna kit that can be installed in the same wingtip as the NAV antenna. A number of people on the list have already done this. You could check the archives for their comments. Jim Ayers member of the "Old Dog" oversight committee :-) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:56 AM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: >interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com Dan; Try grounding the pieces before you spray the paint. Just grab a hunk of wire ( any kind ) and ground one end to a piece of galvanized water pipe driven into the ground . Put an alligator clip on the other end and clamp it to the material being painted. You could also tie it to a cleco and put in a hole in the material. The ground lug of a wall electrical outlet would suffice if you can't reach an outside pipe with your wire. ( Be SURE you know which is the GROUND hole in the outlet ! ) Don't go to a lot of expense , test it first. Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:18 AM PST US From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Subject: RE: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Rick, I'm with you on this but let me ask you this. How many of those pilots have Internet access? There are a lot of people who (still) don't have (or want) Internet access. Now that being said, how many list members are there on this list? More than 138 I'd say. At any rate, you've shamed me into going to the site and leaving my comments. :-) -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network Manager Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Rick Galati [mailto:rick07x@earthlink.net] Subject: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" Lets see, there are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA? I'm sure that more than one participant of this list knows the precise number and any one of a usual number of suspects are predictably quick to offer up a dutiful correction. Yet, where is that glibness when a new rule visits the Republic that makes a mockery of due process, and singles out FAA certificate holders for special Orwellian consideration? Oh, we can read lots of whining and complaining about FAA-2003-14293 on this board and elsewhere. The usual passionate arguments are oft repeated to a rapt and righteous choir of the like-minded. Mostly this staple consists of boiler plate fodder including such blue-plate specials such as constitutional guarantees, due process, the well known price of giving up liberty for temporary security, privileges versus rights..... heady stuff like that. But an all too human condition is playing itself out among our brethren yet again. What is occurring within our flying fraternity is certainly not unique to any special interest group such as those who participate in this forum, but nonetheless is indicative of a larger American condition. Out of 600,000 pilots, you would think the vast majority would have at least some small interest in preserving their freedom of flight that goes beyond engaging in casual, if at times lively chit chat among the like-minded. This is the impression one can certainly get based on some of the more outrageous sound bites masquerading as outrage we can read over and over again. A few minutes ago, when I lasted checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a miniscule and pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred Thousand licensed pilots have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY HEARD in a governmental forum where that personal comment can at least in some small way count for something. What is it about going on record that brings out the "anonymous" in a few and renders the majority of people suddenly mute and stopped cold in their self interested tracks? Rick Galati ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:31 AM PST US From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Subject: RE: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" As a follow-up to my last email... Another reason people might not be making comments is the relative difficulty in leaving a comment. At first glance, it appears that you have to register to leave a comment. It appears to be much more complicated than it really is to leave a comment. Many of our less experienced Internet users will give up. -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network Manager Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Rick Galati [mailto:rick07x@earthlink.net] Subject: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" Lets see, there are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA? I'm sure that more than one participant of this list knows the precise number and any one of a usual number of suspects are predictably quick to offer up a dutiful correction. Yet, where is that glibness when a new rule visits the Republic that makes a mockery of due process, and singles out FAA certificate holders for special Orwellian consideration? Oh, we can read lots of whining and complaining about FAA-2003-14293 on this board and elsewhere. The usual passionate arguments are oft repeated to a rapt and righteous choir of the like-minded. Mostly this staple consists of boiler plate fodder including such blue-plate specials such as constitutional guarantees, due process, the well known price of giving up liberty for temporary security, privileges versus rights..... heady stuff like that. But an all too human condition is playing itself out among our brethren yet again. What is occurring within our flying fraternity is certainly not unique to any special interest group such as those who participate in this forum, but nonetheless is indicative of a larger American condition. Out of 600,000 pilots, you would think the vast majority would have at least some small interest in preserving their freedom of flight that goes beyond engaging in casual, if at times lively chit chat among the like-minded. This is the impression one can certainly get based on some of the more outrageous sound bites masquerading as outrage we can read over and over again. A few minutes ago, when I lasted checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a miniscule and pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred Thousand licensed pilots have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY HEARD in a governmental forum where that personal comment can at least in some small way count for something. What is it about going on record that brings out the "anonymous" in a few and renders the majority of people suddenly mute and stopped cold in their self interested tracks? Rick Galati ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:23 AM PST US From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Subject: RE: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" I can hear the Battle Hymn of the Republic playing in the background.... And... I commented. Do not archive. -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network Manager Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: C. Rabaut [mailto:crabaut@coalinga.com] Subject: Fw: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" Rick, Truly our society, like all the rest, is largely populated by sheep. When things are good they bah, when things are bad they bleat. God knows how or when the brave take up arms to save the flock. http://dms.dot.gov/ Anyone else care to be heard... http://dms.dot.gov/ There is a place http://dms.dot.gov/ a forum http://dms.dot.gov/ yes http://dms.dot.gov/ you can make a difference. http://dms.dot.gov/ Do not pass up this opportunity to be counted. Go To http://dms.dot.gov/ Chuck do not archive http://dms.dot.gov/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: Pogo got it right > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" > > > Lets see, there > are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA? I'm sure > that more than one participant of this list knows the precise number > and any one of a usual number of suspects are predictably quick to > offer up a dutiful correction. Yet, where is that glibness when a new rule > visits the Republic that makes a mockery of due process, and singles out FAA > certificate holders for special Orwellian consideration? Oh, we can > read lots of whining and complaining about FAA-2003-14293 on this board and > elsewhere. The usual passionate arguments are oft repeated to a rapt > and righteous choir of the like-minded. Mostly this staple consists > of boiler plate fodder including such blue-plate specials such as > constitutional guarantees, due process, the well known price of giving up > liberty for temporary security, privileges versus rights..... heady stuff > like that. But an all too human condition is playing itself out > among our brethren yet again. What is occurring within our flying > fraternity is certainly not unique to any special interest group such as those > who participate in this forum, but nonetheless is indicative of a larger > American condition. Out of 600,000 pilots, you would think the > vast majority would have at least some small interest in preserving their > freedom of flight that goes beyond engaging in casual, if at times lively chit > chat among the like-minded. This is the impression one can certainly > get based on some of the more outrageous sound bites masquerading as outrage we > can read over and over again. A few minutes ago, when I lasted > checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a > miniscule and pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred > Thousand licensed pilots have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY HEARD in a > governmental forum where that personal comment can at least in some small way > count for something. What is it about going on record that brings out > the "anonymous" in a few and renders the majority of people suddenly mute and > stopped cold in their self interested tracks? > > Rick Galati > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:53 AM PST US From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Subject: RE: RV-List: Newest Airline --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Who cares??!! The bigger the better! :-P Do not archive -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network Manager Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: JNice51355@aol.com [mailto:JNice51355@aol.com] Subject: Re: RV-List: Newest Airline --> RV-List message posted by: JNice51355@aol.com In a message dated 1/30/03 2:50:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, dougr@petroblend.com writes: > I am sure HOOters air flies the fanjet powered 737's with the "Large > Nacelles" > > Question is: "Do they artificially enhance the SIZE of those nacelles?" do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:41 AM PST US From: terence.gannon@telus.net Subject: RV-List: New Insurance Thread --> RV-List message posted by: terence.gannon@telus.net I thought that things were getting a little quiet on the 'List, so I figure I would stir up a new insurance thread. ;-) Heard what may well be an urban myth that insurance companies are reluctant/unwilling to accept DIGITAL photographs to substantiate a claim. The theory, I'm assuming, that there fairly easy to doctor these days. I'm assuming that a lot of 'Listers are using precisely this technology for documenting their projects, and if it's an issue, I figured we oughtta know about it. Comments?? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:50 AM PST US From: "Glenn Brasch" Subject: Re: RV-List: New Insurance Thread --> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" I recently had a claim with my company, Progressive, on some hail damage. THEY documented it on their end with a digital camera. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: New Insurance Thread > --> RV-List message posted by: terence.gannon@telus.net > > I thought that things were getting a little quiet on the 'List, so I figure I > would stir up a new insurance thread. ;-) Heard what may well be an urban > myth that insurance companies are reluctant/unwilling to accept DIGITAL ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:34 AM PST US From: dcarter@datarecall.net Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: dcarter@datarecall.net > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > I'm having a couple of problems: > > 1) Dust, dust, and more dust. I'm painting the parts on table tops on top > of masking paper, so maybe that's the problem right there> > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) > http://www.rvproject.com Dan, Can't help witht he "dissimilar color splotches" other than to say that when I was applying corrosion control primer, "thinner was better than thicker" - had to thin the paint to avoid splothes - when it went on really thin, the splotches went away - took maybe four passes to cover instead of 1 or 2 passes. A Glastar builder in my EAA chapter built a simple "rotisserie" (sp?) to hang small parts on: Basic idea - think of a paddle wheel steamer on the Mississippi River, except it only has two blades on the paddle wheel. Build any type of framework to rest on the ground to hold the "paddle wheel", mount the paddle wheel with a bolt through each end to the framework so you can rotate the paddle wheel, then screw in a lot of cup holders on each "paddle", then make lots of little wire "hooks" (buy a box of paper clips and a box of rubber bands), and "daisey chain" the little parts together with hooks (thru rivet holes) and rubber bands from one "blade" across to the other. Now, rotate the parts to see one side and pait that side, then flip the paddle wheel 180 degrees and paint the other side. The rubber bands apply enough tension that the parts don't blow in the wind while painting. If these are exterior parts, you can prevent the slight shadow where the metal hook covered the part from the hole to the edge - you shape the hook ends so that instead of being a simple 180 degree loop, it would be a 90 deg corner, then a 1/4 or 1/2 inch flat across the top - with a little "dip" in the middle to catch the edge of the rivet hole and hold the pard in the middle, then another 90 degree turn to complete the 180 degree "hook" effect. Now, the sides of the hooks will be "stood off" from the sides of the part and you can shoot the spray paint at an angle on each side of a part to shoot behind the clip so as not to have a shadow. David Carter --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using EXP Webmail. http://www.exp.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:55 AM PST US From: "Fabian Lefler" Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" Dan, I just finished painting my interior a couple of weeks, and I can relate to your problems. My experience has shown that with polyurethane paints, what you see is what you get. Anytime you wet sand any areas of it, you will lose the gloss. Don't believe that 1500, 2000 or whatever grit paper you can get will keep the gloss. I tried it. It won't. Nevertheless, after the gloss is removed, you can do two things: either spray another light coat of paint on top, or go spray a coat of clear. Either way you will be re-spraying the area. For my cockpit, I purchased a gallon of Sherwin Williams Acrylid (Acrylic Enamel-color 50023). But after talking to some friends, I was convinced that the polyurethane would be a better choice. So, I decided to return the reducer and the hardener and got a gallon of Sunfire (color 50023). Let me tell you that the acrylic enamel would have been just fine. I did some test sample with the acrylic after the curing period, and it held up just fine. The benefit of the acrylic vs. the polyurethane is that you can usually get rid of any imperfections on it by wet sanding followed by some rubbing compound and liquid wax. Not so with the polyurethane. My advice for you is not to believe that you can achieve the perfect paint job on the first attempt. For instance in my case, a had a lot things working against me. For starters, I had never done it before. Also, I painted the cockpit already riveted together and the gun had to be maneuvered in a lot of different ways to get an even coat on the many surfaces. And then is that dust problem. I hung plastic all the way around, cleaned up the area, wetted down everything, and I still got stuff to fall on the freshly painted pieces. Unless you have a dust free booth, you will likely get something to fall on your parts, especially, the ones painted on a flat surface. You can try hanging most of the parts on a wire and paint them vertically, I did some this way, but that method brings another set of problems to the table... RUNS! In the end, I am extremely happy with the results. The cockpit looks fantastic, but I have had to re-spray some parts more than once. I know that you are probably concerned about re-spaying due to the color variations between your batches, and not being a paint expert, I can only suggest that you stick to one manufacturer for the paint, reducer and hardener. Everything I used was from Sherwin Williams. I have mixed and sprayed paint on three different occasions and I can't see any variations between the batches. My mixing ratio was 4:2:1 As far as the gun, the Harbor Freight gun is what I used and I am encouraged to use the same gun for the exterior. I am convinced that the order of priorities when painting should be: 1. Dust free area, 2. Lighting, 3. Patience, 4. lighting, 5. technique, 6. lighting, 7. gun. I hope this helped some. Best of luck. Regards, Fabian Lefler RV-9A 900292 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: RV-List: interior paint woes > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > I've scoured the archives in search of tips and information, but I'm still > coming up short. > > After screwing around with Cardinal air-dry acrylic enamel spray cans, and > being very unhappy with its durability and its tendency to splatter dark > drops on the piece, I switched to Sherwin Williams single-stage Dimension > 3.5 urethane enamel. I'm using the reducer and hardener that my local auto > paint shop sold me, and I'm mixing it 5:1:1 as the instructions say to do. > > I'm having a couple of problems: > > 1) Dust, dust, and more dust. I'm painting the parts on table tops on top > of masking paper, so maybe that's the problem right there...but I've got > plastic up all around my garage and I tried wetting the floor down and > everything, yet I still get dust particles in there like crazy. Is there > any way to fix/buff/sand that out after the fact? I've got 1000 and 2000 > grit wet/dry sand paper, but even the 2000 grit takes the gloss right off. > What to do? Do most people hang parts to paint them? How do you stabilize > small lightweight parts? I've seen people hang wires beneath the part to > grab, but I don't think that will stabilize this stuff well enough (little > cover panels, etc.). > > 2) Color bleed. Bleed is probably the wrong term. I'm using a light gray, > and in several spots on almost all of the pieces, the color comes out > lighter in splotches. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how much > paint I'm putting on, because even on subsequent coats (20-30 minutes later) > the lighter splotches bleed right through. The gloss is totally consistent, > it's just the color that's off in these spots. It's totally unpredictable > in that light splotches pop up in random spots. Could this have something > to do with temperature or moisture or the wrong reducer? I have an inline > moisture filter at the regulator and another one at the gun (and yes, it's a > clean, non-oiled hose). Could this have anything to do with the type of > gloves I'm wearing and handling the parts with? The spots don't seem to > coincide with handling, but I'm not ruling that out. > > For what it's worth, I'm spraying with a touch-up sprayer from Harbor > Freight. Please don't tell me to spend lots of money on an HVLP sprayer...I > know there are people out there who have successfully painted their > interiors with cheap touch-up guns... I'm generally happy with the gloss > and finish (other than the dust), it's just the color thing that's plaguing > me right now. > > I'm very happy with the durability and finish that this Dimension paint > seems to have...it's just these little pesky problems that are dragging me > down right now. Any advice is much appreciated! > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:24 AM PST US From: "Francis Malczynski" Subject: RE: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: "Francis Malczynski" I can only tell you what I did. To cut down on dust I not only wet the floor down, but I was pulling air through my plastic in-garage paint booth by using furnace filters on one end and two window fans on the other end. I later experimented with one window fan and it was very adequate to the task. I also used a surface cleaner over all the parts in addition to using a tack rag just prior to shooting. This did not keep out all the dust, but the nits that were left I sanded with1000 - 1500 grit paper and then restored the shine by using 3M fine compound with a wool bonnet mounted on a electric drill. I used Martin-Senour urethane enamel (which I loved) and with the color pre-reduced the mixture with the hardener was 3:1. Some parts I did paint with the same Harbor Freight touch up gun and they turned out as well as the ones I did with my $350 DeVllbiss. In all fairness the DeVilbiss had a larger capacity and the spray pattern was large and you could cover a lot of area in a short time. Can't help you with the light splotches other then after I had done my final clean on the part I never touched them with my bare fingers. I always wore latex or vinyl gloves. Hope this helps. Fran Malczynski RV-6 N594EF Olcott, NY -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" I've scoured the archives in search of tips and information, but I'm still coming up short. After screwing around with Cardinal air-dry acrylic enamel spray cans, and being very unhappy with its durability and its tendency to splatter dark drops on the piece, I switched to Sherwin Williams single-stage Dimension 3.5 urethane enamel. I'm using the reducer and hardener that my local auto paint shop sold me, and I'm mixing it 5:1:1 as the instructions say to do. I'm having a couple of problems: 1) Dust, dust, and more dust. I'm painting the parts on table tops on top of masking paper, so maybe that's the problem right there...but I've got plastic up all around my garage and I tried wetting the floor down and everything, yet I still get dust particles in there like crazy. Is there any way to fix/buff/sand that out after the fact? I've got 1000 and 2000 grit wet/dry sand paper, but even the 2000 grit takes the gloss right off. What to do? Do most people hang parts to paint them? How do you stabilize small lightweight parts? I've seen people hang wires beneath the part to grab, but I don't think that will stabilize this stuff well enough (little cover panels, etc.). 2) Color bleed. Bleed is probably the wrong term. I'm using a light gray, and in several spots on almost all of the pieces, the color comes out lighter in splotches. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how much paint I'm putting on, because even on subsequent coats (20-30 minutes later) the lighter splotches bleed right through. The gloss is totally consistent, it's just the color that's off in these spots. It's totally unpredictable in that light splotches pop up in random spots. Could this have something to do with temperature or moisture or the wrong reducer? I have an inline moisture filter at the regulator and another one at the gun (and yes, it's a clean, non-oiled hose). Could this have anything to do with the type of gloves I'm wearing and handling the parts with? The spots don't seem to coincide with handling, but I'm not ruling that out. For what it's worth, I'm spraying with a touch-up sprayer from Harbor Freight. Please don't tell me to spend lots of money on an HVLP sprayer...I know there are people out there who have successfully painted their interiors with cheap touch-up guns... I'm generally happy with the gloss and finish (other than the dust), it's just the color thing that's plaguing me right now. I'm very happy with the durability and finish that this Dimension paint seems to have...it's just these little pesky problems that are dragging me down right now. Any advice is much appreciated! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:54 AM PST US From: "lucky macy" Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" Are you open to using a completely different paint type? I just saw the nicest painted RV ever this past week. The interior QB fuselage was painted with a type of textured looking gray paint which will wear extremely well and you wouldn't notice if fur balls were mixed with the paint. Not too rough to the touch and should not be "glary" in flight. He's a retired AF pilot and know exactly what he wanted. He said it was "aircraft" paint which I believe he said he ordered through Aircaft Spruce. I will see him at the EAA meeting tonight and ask for details if you want. lucky >From: "Dan Checkoway" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: interior paint woes >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:29:37 -0800 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >I've scoured the archives in search of tips and information, but I'm still >coming up short. > >After screwing around with Cardinal air-dry acrylic enamel spray cans, and >being very unhappy with its durability and its tendency to splatter dark >drops on the piece, I switched to Sherwin Williams single-stage Dimension >3.5 urethane enamel. I'm using the reducer and hardener that my local auto >paint shop sold me, and I'm mixing it 5:1:1 as the instructions say to do. > >I'm having a couple of problems: > >1) Dust, dust, and more dust. I'm painting the parts on table tops on top >of masking paper, so maybe that's the problem right there...but I've got >plastic up all around my garage and I tried wetting the floor down and >everything, yet I still get dust particles in there like crazy. Is there >any way to fix/buff/sand that out after the fact? I've got 1000 and 2000 >grit wet/dry sand paper, but even the 2000 grit takes the gloss right off. >What to do? Do most people hang parts to paint them? How do you stabilize >small lightweight parts? I've seen people hang wires beneath the part to >grab, but I don't think that will stabilize this stuff well enough (little >cover panels, etc.). > >2) Color bleed. Bleed is probably the wrong term. I'm using a light gray, >and in several spots on almost all of the pieces, the color comes out >lighter in splotches. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how much >paint I'm putting on, because even on subsequent coats (20-30 minutes >later) >the lighter splotches bleed right through. The gloss is totally >consistent, >it's just the color that's off in these spots. It's totally unpredictable >in that light splotches pop up in random spots. Could this have something >to do with temperature or moisture or the wrong reducer? I have an inline >moisture filter at the regulator and another one at the gun (and yes, it's >a >clean, non-oiled hose). Could this have anything to do with the type of >gloves I'm wearing and handling the parts with? The spots don't seem to >coincide with handling, but I'm not ruling that out. > >For what it's worth, I'm spraying with a touch-up sprayer from Harbor >Freight. Please don't tell me to spend lots of money on an HVLP >sprayer...I >know there are people out there who have successfully painted their >interiors with cheap touch-up guns... I'm generally happy with the gloss >and finish (other than the dust), it's just the color thing that's plaguing >me right now. > >I'm very happy with the durability and finish that this Dimension paint >seems to have...it's just these little pesky problems that are dragging me >down right now. Any advice is much appreciated! > >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish) >http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:02 AM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" I painted all the small parts, wired together and strung between two "L" brackets clamped to the ends of a 4' X 8' table. However, the wiring together was done by forming heavy galvanized wire (i.e. fence wire) into oblong circles, about 2" wide, with hooks along the sides to permit completing the circle after threading it through near edge rivet holes in the piece to be painted. The whole string was attached to the end brackets by connecting each end it to swivel balls of a key chain. The hole string can then be rotated easily for painting all over. The idea of the large diameter wire circles is that it prevents the paint spray from being shadowed by the wires. Cheers!!---Henry Hore ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:54 AM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightening Strikes a Plane! --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" I have the same thing in my files. It happened in Osaka, Japan. Henry Hore Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:10 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Thanks, the RV-list still works --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Although I have separately contacted and thanked everyone who responded to my request for guidance in wiring my KX-125, I just want to repeat that thanks and let others know what a great resource this list is. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, starting firewall forward ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:38 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Pogo got it right --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Revised instructions. I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought maybe some of the rest of you could do this so here are some simple instructions and suggestions. 1. I went to: http://dms.dot.gov and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at this point. 2. I clicked continue on the next page. 3. After entering the docket number. You only need to enter 14293; the digits after the dash. It then took me to the comment page. It is probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be required. There are several as Anonymous. 4. Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all. HINT! You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word processor. I need this to make me look intelligent. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Subject: RE: RV-List: Pogo got it right > --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > > As a follow-up to my last email... Another reason people might not be > making comments is the relative difficulty in leaving a comment. At first > glance, it appears that you have to register to leave a comment. It appears > to be much more complicated than it really is to leave a comment. Many of > our less experienced Internet users will give up. > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > Network Manager > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Galati [mailto:rick07x@earthlink.net] > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: Pogo got it right > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rick Galati" > > > Lets see, there > are......600,000 plus, licensed pilots in the USA? I'm sure > that more than one participant of this list knows the precise number > and any one of a usual number of suspects are predictably quick to > offer up a dutiful correction. Yet, where is that glibness when a new rule > visits the Republic that makes a mockery of due process, and singles out FAA > > certificate holders for special Orwellian consideration? Oh, we can > read lots of whining and complaining about FAA-2003-14293 on this board and > elsewhere. The usual passionate arguments are oft repeated to a rapt > and righteous choir of the like-minded. Mostly this staple consists > of boiler plate fodder including such blue-plate specials such as > constitutional guarantees, due process, the well known price of giving up > liberty for temporary security, privileges versus rights..... heady stuff > like that. But an all too human condition is playing itself out > among our brethren yet again. What is occurring within our flying > fraternity is certainly not unique to any special interest group such as > those > who participate in this forum, but nonetheless is indicative of a larger > American condition. Out of 600,000 pilots, you would think the > vast majority would have at least some small interest in preserving their > freedom of flight that goes beyond engaging in casual, if at times lively > chit > chat among the like-minded. This is the impression one can certainly > get based on some of the more outrageous sound bites masquerading as outrage > we > can read over and over again. A few minutes ago, when I lasted > checked http://dms.dot.gov/ , a > miniscule and pathetic fraction of only 138 souls out of Six Hundred > Thousand licensed pilots have bothered to MAKE THEIR VOICE OFFICIALLY HEARD > in a > governmental forum where that personal comment can at least in some small > way > count for something. What is it about going on record that brings out > the "anonymous" in a few and renders the majority of people suddenly mute > and > stopped cold in their self interested tracks? > > Rick Galati > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:05 AM PST US From: Charlie & Tupper England Subject: Re: RV-List: New Insurance Thread --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England terence.gannon@telus.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: terence.gannon@telus.net > >I thought that things were getting a little quiet on the 'List, so I figure I >would stir up a new insurance thread. ;-) Heard what may well be an urban >myth that insurance companies are reluctant/unwilling to accept DIGITAL >photographs to substantiate a claim. The theory, I'm assuming, that there >fairly easy to doctor these days. > >I'm assuming that a lot of 'Listers are using precisely this technology for >documenting their projects, and if it's an issue, I figured we oughtta know >about it. > >Comments?? > They didn't seem to have a problem with their adjuster using one when my pickup backed into a freind's C170. It wasn't my fault; I was inside the hanger at the time & had left the pickup (running) several minutes earlier. Charlie (Knight Rider) England ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:21 AM PST US From: sjhdcl@kingston.net Subject: RV-List: RV7A tip-up canopy --> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net Reference tip-up canopy RV7A. I have all the canopy frame drilled and clecoed. I'll rivet the W725 side supports to the W716 frame tonight. The next step calls to start cutting the canopy. Anybody see any reason I can't delay this step for now and move on to install to gas struts, hold downs, drill 631 together, etc right now? Too cold for plexi here and will be for another month. Steve Hurlbut Rv7A Ontario, Canada ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:14 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: DC Rating (was: [ExperimentalAvionics] off topic request) --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 08:41 PM 1/31/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "ron dewees" > >Hi.. I agree completely with what Marshall just said about using a relay to >handle current, but would add that believing the rating of a switch can be >VERY hazardous to you health. I rode a "quiet" 2 cycle engine to the ground >twice before realizing that the Mag switch that was rated at 20Amps AC is >only good for about 1/10th that in DC. Newbees to Electric Vehicles make this mistake all the time. You MUST have the proper DC voltage rating for the device to work correctly. This includes switches, relays, breakers, and fuses. The device will not open, but will arc across internally instead. In a silent EV, you can actually hear the hiss of the arc across the contacts, (kind of like a leak in a tire.) Then smoke starts to pour out. Then the switch catches fire. I have had a 7 amp fuse, not rated for the voltage, fail to clear when a component shorted out. It just arced across and the current kept flowing. The 70 amp main fuse, that was rated for the voltage, did clear and prevented the car from going up in flames. The Cutler-Hammer switches mentioned earlier in this thread are an excellent choice for DC. _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube' \'o.O' =(___) U Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:41 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: interior paint woes --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 09:56 AM 2/3/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" > >Are you open to using a completely different paint type? I just saw the >nicest painted RV ever this past week. The interior QB fuselage was painted >with a type of textured looking gray paint which will wear extremely well >and you wouldn't notice if fur balls were mixed with the paint. Not too >rough to the touch and should not be "glary" in flight. "Trunk" paint. Great stuff. Comes out of the gun/can multi-colored! Be sure to clear coat over it. It does not wear well and gets dirty easily if you don't clear coat. _ /| \'o.O' Bill Dube' =(___)= bdube@boulder.nist.gov U ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:27 PM PST US From: "Rob W M Shipley" Subject: RV-List: O-360 powered Seraphim and Cherubim? --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" ".............installing the Angel Bracket rivets" This builder at least must be doing absolutely heavenly work. ;-] Do NOT archive Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV Fuselage. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:08 PM PST US From: "DANIEL W WATTERS" Subject: Re: RV-List: New Insurance Thread --> RV-List message posted by: "DANIEL W WATTERS" Well Glenn, dammit, the deed is done. Avery has my order. I hope your guest bedroom is available. I ordered 2 of the marker blocks. I immediately got an email back asking why I needed two marker blocks. Sandra also questioned why I needed the rivet tool return spring since the C-arm comes with one. So I deleted that. I did get a unibit, a double edge deburring tool, the temporary assembly pins, a second set of cleco pliers, a back riveting plate (yes I know I could have got it cheaper at Cleaveland but it will come in the same box as everything else), air tool oil, Boelube, emery cloth, and a box of scotch-bright pads. Also got their dimpling mallet and after seeing Paul trying to get the scotch magic tape off of his skins I ordered a roll of rivet tape. Total with shipping is $1845.29. They have their pneumatic squeezer body on sale for $355. Regularily $475. Almost bit but Sandra told me if I wait until Sun n Fun it might be a little less. Seems like a good deal at $355 but I have already spent my allowance for the next few years so I better wait. The beginnings of my financial downfall have begun and it is all your fault ; ) Dan ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:08 PM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: RV-List: Fw: Remembering ... --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Rabaut Subject: Remembering ... In Memoriam of the crew of STS-107 "High Flight" Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of-wheeled and soared and swung High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there, I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air. Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace Where never lark, or even eagle flew - And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod The high untrespassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand and touched the face of God. John G. Magee, Jr. 1922-1941 Rick Husband William McCool Laurel Clark Kalpana Chawla Ilan Ramon Michael Anderson David Brown ~*~ When I must leave you for a little while Please do not grieve and shed wild tears And hug your sorrow to you through the years But start out bravely with a gallant smile; Reach out your hand in comfort and in cheer And I in turn will comfort you and hold you near; And never, never be afraid to die, For I am waiting for you in the sky! ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:37 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: RV tools (Was: New Insurance Thread) --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 03:05 PM 2/3/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "DANIEL W WATTERS" > >Well Glenn, dammit, the deed is done. Avery has my order. >They have their pneumatic squeezer body on sale for $355. Regularily $475. >Almost bit but Sandra told me if I wait until Sun n Fun it might be a little >less. Seems like a good deal at $355 but I have already spent my allowance >for the next few years so I better wait. Ebay is the way to buy aviation tools, especially expensive easy-to-ship items like a squeezer. Here are two CP 214C squeezer clones up for auction now: This one should go for about $140 because it comes with sets, but it is not a CP. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31482&item=3309290061&rd=1 This clone is brand new, but poorly listed, (hard to find) so not many folks will be bidding. It might possibly go for the minimum bid of $250, if at all. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10368&item=2402328450&rd=1 Here is a very spiffy looking genuine CP 214C for $285 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401718713&category=26442 I just bought a CP 214C clone for $130 + $10 shipping. Awhile back, I bought a monster CP 351 squeezer with 9 inch deep jaws for $100. Perfect for a bench-mount. It even has a hole in the lever for a cable-operated foot trip. Before that, I bought a Rockwell 1/4-28 angle drill with a big selection of brand new drills (like 200) and a set of collet chucks for just $76. I love Ebay for buying tools. : ) Bill Dube' ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:02 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: From: "Streiker, Stephen D (Steve), WHLSL" --> RV-List message posted by: "Streiker, Stephen D (Steve), WHLSL" Hi. I live in the New York metro area (Hoboken). I am interested in eventually building an RV-9. I wonder if anyone knows of a NY metro area RV builder. I'd be interested in helping out in exchange for experience. I just joined EAA. Thanks Steve Stephen D. Streiker Global Account Manager - AT&T Service Provider Markets 32 Avenue of the Americas - W616 - New York, NY 10013 Phone: 212-387-5355 Fax: 360-397-7362 Mobile: 917-865-9875 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:21 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: RV-List: RV list hint --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Recently I have noticed a few listers sending requests for lost or missing contact information for other listers. A simple way to obtain the most recent email addresses of other listers is to go to the list archives and enter the name or the email address that you have for the person being sought. Not always but often this will get the contact information desired. Entering your own email address/s can be interesting, A sort of journal like experience might describe the outcome. do not archive ... Jim in Kelowna ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:23 PM PST US From: "DANIEL W WATTERS" Subject: RV-List: Sorry --> RV-List message posted by: "DANIEL W WATTERS" My apologies for sending a private message to the entire list. I knew I had screwed up as soon as I hit send. Another lesson learned. Dan Watters Tucson, AZ. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:03 PM PST US From: HalBenjamin@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: HalBenjamin@aol.com Hi Steve, There are several RV builders on Long Island. I don't know if anyone is building an RV-9, but there's my 4, a 6, a couple of 8s, and I believe a 7 under construction. Feel free to give me a call in the evening during the week. Hal Benjamin RV-4, Fuselage Long Island, NY 631-385-6016 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:43 PM PST US From: "Mr Christopher McGough" Subject: RV-List: Sidetone --> RV-List message posted by: "Mr Christopher McGough" I have an Icom A200 with a Flightcom 403MC intercom. My problem is I have no side tone. Flightcom say it is the radio. Anyone now how to get it. Chris and Susie VH-MUM ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:56 PM PST US From: "Konrad Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Sorry --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" Some or even most of us KNEW TOO!! But that's life, so DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "DANIEL W WATTERS" Subject: RV-List: Sorry > --> RV-List message posted by: "DANIEL W WATTERS" > > My apologies for sending a private message to the entire list. I knew I had > screwed up as soon as I hit send. Another lesson learned. > > Dan Watters > Tucson, AZ. > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:06 PM PST US From: "Dave von Linsowe" Subject: RV-List: Trim --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" Hi guys, Has anyone tried setting up the MAC elevator or aileron trim with a control pot instead of push buttons? Dave RV-6 The need for speed ----> ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:38 PM PST US From: "Chris Fordham" Subject: RV-List: Sidetone --> RV-List message posted by: "Chris Fordham" Chris I had the same problem using a handheld that didn't generate its own sidetone, you or the backseater couldn't hear yourself talking when transmitting out. The way around it is to get a intercom that generates its own sidetone, one I believe is made by Pilot, 200 series specifically for handhelds. Chris F