Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:23 AM - Re: from the EAA news wire re insurance (JRWillJR@aol.com)
2. 01:37 AM - Low airsped on first flights (Arthur and Christine)
3. 06:49 AM - Tip-up canopy help (Bob Hartley)
4. 07:26 AM - Re: Swivel Mushroom Set with Rubber Guard (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
5. 07:47 AM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Serge Boucher)
6. 08:58 AM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Jeff Point)
7. 09:05 AM - Re: Cowling issues (Gary)
8. 09:58 AM - Re: Swivel Mushroom Set with Rubber Guard (HCRV6@aol.com)
9. 10:53 AM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Elsa & Henry)
10. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Cowling issues (Elsa & Henry)
11. 12:08 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Mr Christopher McGough)
12. 12:12 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Jim Jewell)
13. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Cowling issues (Dr. Leathers)
14. 03:00 PM - RV's in St. Pete, FL? (T Bronson)
15. 05:20 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Robert McCallum)
16. 07:02 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Jim Jewell)
17. 07:25 PM - Tinted Canopy (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
18. 07:44 PM - Rivet set (Russ Werner)
19. 08:10 PM - Re: Tip-up canopy help (Robert McCallum)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: from the EAA news wire re insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/2003 10:10:44 PM Central Standard Time,
sbuc@hiwaay.net writes:
> Effective immediately, aircraft powered by most auto
> engine conversion packages and non-type certificated aircraft engines
> are insurable under the plan.
Yep, that is what I said. I claim no responsibility for this clarification
(but I did make some calls) but now those who claim the non-insurability of
non TC engines have someone else to argue with other than me. Meanwhile, I
think I will go polish the chrome on my new--INSURED--engine and thank God
that I live in this great country were individual voices count. Do Not
Archive. JR
Message 2
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| Subject: | Low airsped on first flights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
With regard to the engine red lining at 140kts IAS on our RV-8 with a Sensenich
Fm prop.
We deduced that the ASI is reading 10 kts slow by flying in formation with an RV-6A
and using GPS tracks in a spreadsheet. Have sent the ASI away to be repaired
which is unfortunate as it is brand new ex Van's.
Have borrowed a recently calibrated ASI out of our C206, TAS at 7500' pres alt
from both the ASI and GPS are within 1 knot.
Much more fun flying the 8 now that it goes that much faster:)
Cheers,
Arthur Whitehead
RV-8 about 4.5 hrs air time
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hartley" <rv9a_9@hotmail.com>
I'm trying to drill and fit the tip up canopy for RV9A (same as
7A if you wish to help me)
I've buted the canopy frame skin right up to the forward top skin as per
directions. The fit was perfect and I was very happy with the fit. Now I
can't get the canopy frame to tip-up! The skins are too close together and
instead of opening the canopy, the skins just but agaist each other. I can
open the frame maybe 1/2" before they bind and the canopy skin starts to
bend. I unclecoed the forward skin and figured out it must be 1/8" away from
the canopy frame to stop them from buting.
Any others had this happen? Any fixes? Maybe the 1/4" bolts holes drilled in
the canopy frame are too far aft in the hinge? I can't see much of a fix
since the holes are drilled once everything is in place.
Thankx for giving me a hand. Help!
Bob Hartley
RV9A
CA
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Swivel Mushroom Set with Rubber Guard |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
List, Sam makes a good point on the swivel set as it very easy to use.
Don't forget to use the back rivet technique as it always produced good
looking rivets for me and never a smile!
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Swivel Mushroom Set with Rubber Guard
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>
> Joshua Siler wrote:
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Joshua Siler" <joshs@ninatek.com>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I just received my 7A empennage kit, and I'm now just a
workbench
> > away from getting started. My question is about my flush rivet set. I
got
> > the mushroom set without the guard to start with, as a lot of people had
> > recommended it. However, having put a smile on my starter projects in an
RV
> > construction class, and not quite trusting my concentration to stay 100%
> > while riveting, I decided to go to the safe side and get the set with
the
> > rubber guard and the swivel.
> >
> > I just received it from Cleaveland. Regarding the rubber guard, it looks
> > like it would keep the set from sitting flush on the skin while
riveting. Do
> > I need to grind it down a little bit to be a closer fit, or will it
squish
> > down to allow the head of the set to sit flush on the skin?
> >
> > Thanks for any advice.
> >
> > Josh Siler
> > RV-7A Empennage!
>
> I started out with the all-metal set and quickly replaced it with the
> swivel set which I used for the remainder of the project. I did spend a
> couple minutes rubbing the set on a sheet of sandpaper to work down the
> rubber guard a bit, but I never had any problems with rivet setting
> thereafter.....unless it was gross operator error. :-(
>
> One advantage of the swivel set is that you can draft your teenage child
> or other untrained rivet gun operator and they can quickly be driving
> rivets in a totally acceptable manner. I also like the swivel since I
> did most of the riveting singlehanded; often my eyes were on the bucking
> bar side of the job and the rivet gun had to be operated "blind". The
> swivel allowed me to get good results as long as the gun was pointed
> more-or-less at the rivet.
>
> As with everything else on this project, use whatever works best for
> you. One of the biggest mistakes you can make is to blindly follow the
> advice of others without determining if a particular method or
> installation is best for YOUR plane.
>
> Sam Buchanan (1999 RV-6, 460 hrs)
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Serge Boucher" <serge.boucher4@sympatico.ca>
I had the same problem on my RV6. I fittted a piece of rubber with contact cement
under the skin at the front edge of the tip up. The rubber was taken from
an old bicycle tube and is approximately 1/16 think. This raised the skin enough
that it no long binds.
Good luck
Serge Boucher
1999 RV6 C-GRVB 315hrs
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hartley" <rv9a_9@hotmail.com>
I'm trying to drill and fit the tip up canopy for RV9A (same as
7A if you wish to help me)
I've buted the canopy frame skin right up to the forward top skin as per
directions. The fit was perfect and I was very happy with the fit. Now I
can't get the canopy frame to tip-up! The skins are too close together and
instead of opening the canopy, the skins just but agaist each other. I can
open the frame maybe 1/2" before they bind and the canopy skin starts to
bend. I unclecoed the forward skin and figured out it must be 1/8" away from
the canopy frame to stop them from buting.
Any others had this happen? Any fixes? Maybe the 1/4" bolts holes drilled in
the canopy frame are too far aft in the hinge? I can't see much of a fix
since the holes are drilled once everything is in place.
Thankx for giving me a hand. Help!
Bob Hartley
RV9A
CA
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Bob,
I had the same problem on my 6 tip up. I think the fact that the canopy
skin is riveted down, while the forward skin is only clecoed,
contributes to the problem. It is not possible to put clecos on the aft
edge of the forward skin and still open the canopy, and having the aft
edge un-clecoed allows the forward skin to lift up when the canopy is
opened, causing this problem. I suspect (hope!) that when I rivet the
forward skin down, it will fix this. That, plus the weather strip under
the forward edge of the canopy to lift it up a hair.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finish kit
Milwaukee WI
Bob Hartley wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hartley" <rv9a_9@hotmail.com>
>
>
>I'm trying to drill and fit the tip up canopy for RV9A (same as
>7A if you wish to help me)
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling issues |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary" <rv9er@3rivers.net>
Your problem is the norm. However, don't be in a hurry to cut, fill, and grind.
That is what I did, also, on my -9A recently. But, I found afterward that
it would have been better to heat form the area around the air inlet where the
top and bottom meet.
The instructions and some articles in the RVator collection talk about using a
heat gun and clamping, pressure, and wrestling, to make a better fit in this
area. As I recall, the outboard air inlet on the bottom didn't want to fit inside
the mating portion on the top cowl. Heat it up until you need welding gloves
to handle it, and try to form a better lip.
You may still need to do some cut and fill work, but get it as good as you can
this way first. Be aware that when you heat form the fiberglass, it takes more
heat next time, so try to get it in a couple of tries.
If you want to talk some more about this, email me off list, and I'll try to help.
Gary
Time: 10:35:09 AM PST US
From: HCRV6@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling issues....
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/03 8:20:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Knicholas2@aol.com writes:
<< I am disappointed in the fit of the top -to bottom fiberglass cowling on
my
RV9A. I can see that I need to to alot of trimming and sanding to get the
front of the cowling pieces to fit together even closely, let alone look
good. Has anyone else had this problem or did I just get a lousy fiberglass
job? Any suggestions?
>>
Hiya Kim, guess what, I am about a week ahead of you in fitting my epoxy cowl
to my -6. The area around the inlets requires a lot of sanding, filing,
cutting away and re-glassing to get a decent fit. I suppose we are lucky
compared to some of the horror stories I have heard about the old polyester
cowls but that sure doesn't make it any more fun. I am a certified member of
the I Hate Fiberglass club, and still have much to do. Just keep reminding
yourself that it's all part of the learning process.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, starting firewall forward
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Swivel Mushroom Set with Rubber Guard |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 2/7/03 1:31:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, joshs@ninatek.com
writes:
<< Regarding the rubber guard, it looks like it would keep the set from
sitting flush on the skin while riveting. Do I need to grind it down a little
bit to be a closer fit, or will it squish down to allow the head of the set
to sit flush on the skin? >>
I don't know about others but I had exactly that trouble with the rubber
guard when I started this project about 1000 years ago. I trimmed the guard
so that it was flush with the face and it has worked fine ever since.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, starting firewall forward
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
I had the same problem on my 6-A and reasoned like Jeff did, and went ahead
and riveted-in the nose skin as the last thing I did before moving the
'plane out to my hangar. Friends helped me install the canopy there and
departed soon after. Sitting inside, I lowered the canopy and everything
looked fine until I tried to open it. The !#$*%*~! thing was stuck! It
hanged up at the canopy/nose skin interface! As I was stuck inside, I had no
option but to force it open, which it did with a loud snap. The canopy skin
was bent down and the fiberglass fairing had cracked and come un-glued for
about 5'' along the nose skin. Luckily the plexi was OK. Don't ask me what I
did after!!
Looking at the geometry of the J-hook hinges and the retaining pins, as the
nose skin is above the hinges, it makes sense that rotating the canopy from
the closed position would result in a forward motion of the nose-skin hence
the hang-up if the gap there is small. BEWARE!!!
Cheers!?-------Henry Hore
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling issues |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
I don't know how epoxy cowls behave after re-shaping with application of
heat, but I can attest to the fact that polyester cowls (like mine) can be
shaped nicely to fix the discontinuities around the air inlets. It looked
great before a Carib vacation hiatus of three weeks, but when I got back to
work, there was my cowl just as bad as before the work I did on it!! That
stuff has a memory and goes back to its original molding contour! So back to
the cut, fill, grind and sand routine!
Cheers!! ------Henry Hore
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mr Christopher McGough" <vhmum@bigpond.com>
Mine got stuck even after riveting forward skin. I trimmed the canopy skin a
bit and all was fixed.
Chris and Susie
VH-MUM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hartley" <rv9a_9@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Tip-up canopy help
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hartley" <rv9a_9@hotmail.com>
>
>
> I'm trying to drill and fit the tip up canopy for RV9A (same as
> 7A if you wish to help me)
>
> I've buted the canopy frame skin right up to the forward top skin as per
> directions. The fit was perfect and I was very happy with the fit. Now I
> can't get the canopy frame to tip-up! The skins are too close together and
> instead of opening the canopy, the skins just but agaist each other. I can
> open the frame maybe 1/2" before they bind and the canopy skin starts to
> bend. I unclecoed the forward skin and figured out it must be 1/8" away
from
> the canopy frame to stop them from buting.
>
> Any others had this happen? Any fixes? Maybe the 1/4" bolts holes drilled
in
> the canopy frame are too far aft in the hinge? I can't see much of a fix
> since the holes are drilled once everything is in place.
>
> Thankx for giving me a hand. Help!
>
>
> Bob Hartley
> RV9A
> CA
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Jeff,
One possible way to hold these parts together for testing the fit etc. is to
use some inexpensive soft aluminum hardware store pop rivets in place of
clekos. These pop rivets are relatively if not very easy to drill out and
are soft enough that they don't enlarge the hole much, if at all.
I made a two part tool to convert this type of pop rivet to a flush type.
Part #1;
Center drill a hole lengthwise through a sawed off bolt that I has been
filed flat on the end. Drill the bolt with a drill that matched the size of
the pop rivet 'pull shank'. this bolt Must be slightly longer than the
length of the rivet pull shank.
Part # 2;
Using another bolt, file the head of the bolt flat. Center drill this bolt
head deep enough to accept the "rivet shank' without it bottoming out.
Countersink this hole to suit.
Clamp the Part # 2 vertically in a vise insert the pop rivet in the
countersunk hole. Put Part # 1 over the pull shank of the rivet and hit
lightly with a hammer.
This should produce a very good temporary rivet that will allow temporary
assembly of parts for fitting purposes. They hold tighter than spring type
Clekos as well.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tip-up canopy help
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> Bob,
>
> I had the same problem on my 6 tip up. I think the fact that the canopy
> skin is riveted down, while the forward skin is only clecoed,
> contributes to the problem. It is not possible to put clecos on the aft
> edge of the forward skin and still open the canopy, and having the aft
> edge un-clecoed allows the forward skin to lift up when the canopy is
> opened, causing this problem. I suspect (hope!) that when I rivet the
> forward skin down, it will fix this. That, plus the weather strip under
> the forward edge of the canopy to lift it up a hair.
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 finish kit
> Milwaukee WI
>
> Bob Hartley wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hartley" <rv9a_9@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> >I'm trying to drill and fit the tip up canopy for RV9A (same as
> >7A if you wish to help me)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling issues |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Does anyone offer a finished cowl for the RVs that does not require so much
massaging?
DOC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cowling issues
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry"
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
> I don't know how epoxy cowls behave after re-shaping with application of
> heat, but I can attest to the fact that polyester cowls (like mine) can be
> shaped nicely to fix the discontinuities around the air inlets. It looked
> great before a Carib vacation hiatus of three weeks, but when I got back
to
> work, there was my cowl just as bad as before the work I did on it!! That
> stuff has a memory and goes back to its original molding contour! So back
to
> the cut, fill, grind and sand routine!
> Cheers!! ------Henry Hore
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | RV's in St. Pete, FL? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "T Bronson" <bipetype@hotmail.com>
My apologies to those of you in the other 49 states and abroad.
I will be in St. Petersburg, FL, Sunday 2/09 (tomorrow), staying near Albert
Whitted Airport. In case I get some time free, is there any RV action,
project or flying, on the field? Can I get to it on foot without becoming a
"security risk" and jeopardizing my license?
Please respond off-list to:
bipetype@hotmail.com
Thanks.
Tim Bronson
Pittsburgh
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Jim Jewell wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> One possible way to hold these parts together for testing the fit etc. is to
> use some inexpensive soft aluminum hardware store pop rivets in place of
> clekos. These pop rivets are relatively if not very easy to drill out and
> are soft enough that they don't enlarge the hole much, if at all.
>
> I made a two part tool to convert this type of pop rivet to a flush type.
>
> Part #1;
> Center drill a hole lengthwise through a sawed off bolt that I has been
> filed flat on the end. Drill the bolt with a drill that matched the size of
> the pop rivet 'pull shank'. this bolt Must be slightly longer than the
> length of the rivet pull shank.
>
> Part # 2;
> Using another bolt, file the head of the bolt flat. Center drill this bolt
> head deep enough to accept the "rivet shank' without it bottoming out.
> Countersink this hole to suit.
> Clamp the Part # 2 vertically in a vise insert the pop rivet in the
> countersunk hole. Put Part # 1 over the pull shank of the rivet and hit
> lightly with a hammer.
>
> This should produce a very good temporary rivet that will allow temporary
> assembly of parts for fitting purposes. They hold tighter than spring type
> Clekos as well.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
If you are using cheap, soft hardware store rivets only as a temporary fastener
why wouldn't you
just buy the countersunk variety in the first place without going to all this trouble????
Pop
(USM), Marson, and Avdel all offer these in most of the sizes that regular domed
head rivets are
available in.
--
Bob McC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Robert,
Only because I could not find any in my area and I already had a good supply
of the easier to find type. The tool took less time to make (about ten
minutes) than the time it would take to phone and drive around trying to
find what I could make at home.
do not archive ..Jim in Kelowna ..yet!(:-}
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tip-up canopy help
> --> RV-List message posted by: Robert McCallum
<robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
>
> Jim Jewell wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
> >
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > One possible way to hold these parts together for testing the fit etc.
is to
> > use some inexpensive soft aluminum hardware store pop rivets in place of
> > clekos. These pop rivets are relatively if not very easy to drill out
and
> > are soft enough that they don't enlarge the hole much, if at all.
> >
> > I made a two part tool to convert this type of pop rivet to a flush
type.
> >
> > Part #1;
> > Center drill a hole lengthwise through a sawed off bolt that I has been
> > filed flat on the end. Drill the bolt with a drill that matched the size
of
> > the pop rivet 'pull shank'. this bolt Must be slightly longer than the
> > length of the rivet pull shank.
> >
> > Part # 2;
> > Using another bolt, file the head of the bolt flat. Center drill this
bolt
> > head deep enough to accept the "rivet shank' without it bottoming out.
> > Countersink this hole to suit.
> > Clamp the Part # 2 vertically in a vise insert the pop rivet in the
> > countersunk hole. Put Part # 1 over the pull shank of the rivet and hit
> > lightly with a hammer.
> >
> > This should produce a very good temporary rivet that will allow
temporary
> > assembly of parts for fitting purposes. They hold tighter than spring
type
> > Clekos as well.
> >
> > Jim in Kelowna
> >
>
> If you are using cheap, soft hardware store rivets only as a temporary
fastener why wouldn't you
> just buy the countersunk variety in the first place without going to all
this trouble???? Pop
> (USM), Marson, and Avdel all offer these in most of the sizes that
regular domed head rivets are
> available in.
>
> --
> Bob McC
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
Bert:
Glad I could help. I live in Clearwater. Do stop if you get nearby.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Pete
RV-6, N216PH (reserved)
Instrument panel (with a Garman 530 - WOW)
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Russ Werner" <russ@maui.net>
Josh,
When I got mine, I took an exacto knife and trimmed the rubber down a bit.
It was excessive and caused more problems than it solved. Now, I never use
it, favoring instead a no-rubber set.
Aloha and good luck,
Russ
HRII
Maui
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Tip-up canopy help |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Jim Jewell wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Only because I could not find any in my area and I already had a good supply
> of the easier to find type. The tool took less time to make (about ten
> minutes) than the time it would take to phone and drive around trying to
> find what I could make at home.
>
> do not archive ..Jim in Kelowna ..yet!(:-}
OK that sounds like a perfectly valid reason. Have done things like that myself
many times. The
original post made it sound like a lot of effort for something easily obtainable
but if they aren't
readily obtainable for you ya gotta do what ya gotta do!
--
Bob McC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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