---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/14/03: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:41 AM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Larry Pardue) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: AN Fittings (Cy Galley) 3. 06:20 AM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Lenleg@aol.com) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: Diesel Power (Bill Dube) 5. 07:15 AM - Re: plexi and proseal (Bill Dube) 6. 08:14 AM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Randy Lervold) 7. 08:42 AM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Rob Prior) 8. 08:47 AM - < Re: RV or Rocket ???????? (Bob n' Lu Olds) 9. 09:23 AM - Re: plexi and proseal (Jim Jewell) 10. 09:32 AM - Re: AN Fittings (Elsa & Henry) 11. 11:05 AM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (John Starn) 12. 11:16 AM - RV-8 or Rocket (Stuart B McCurdy) 13. 11:17 AM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Brian Huffaker) 14. 12:21 PM - (Ron Patterson) 15. 12:24 PM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Bob Japundza) 16. 12:54 PM - Re: plexi and proseal (Bill Dube) 17. 01:09 PM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Tom Gummo) 18. 01:39 PM - Fuel System Parts for Sale (Ed_Cole@maximhq.com) 19. 01:44 PM - Re: (Jerry Springer) 20. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: RV or Rocket????? (Dr. Leathers) 21. 04:53 PM - Eyeball vents (Bill Dube) 22. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: RV or Rocket????? (Doug Rozendaal) 23. 08:26 PM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (Brian Denk) 24. 09:40 PM - Re: RV or Rocket????? (John Starn) 25. 10:42 PM - [ Daniel Carley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:05 AM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Help!!!! > > OK guys, I think I have decided on tandem over side by side. The RV7 is sweet, but I know that I'll be alone 90% of the time, just like now, in my spam can. Given that, the RV8 is the logical choice because of the advanced kit (over the RV4) and the fact that I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs. > > Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? > I don't meet your criteria but Larry Vetterman, who owns and flys a Rocket and an RV-4, sure does. You will probably have to call him on the phone. I have heard him talk about the additional speed that is available in the Rocket costing a whole lot in terms of fuel burn, if you use it. It seems like most of the guys who have Rockets don't consider them very aerobatic, although there is at least one guy who does airshow aerobatics in one. The Rocket sure is impressive looking and uses a fairly inexpensive engine; inexpensive until the RV-10 people start snapping them up and messing up the market like other RV's messed up the market for O-320's. There seem to be some insurance difficulties with the Rocket. You might check with your agent if you decide to go that way. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:59 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: AN Fittings --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" My 1948 Bellanca uses nothing but Aluminum tubing and AC type aluminum fittings. Probably all war surplus as well as the altimeter has a tag from 1944 Army Air Force contract. Further if the tubing or fittings would crack from the tanks to the engine driven fuel pump, No gas would escape as they are vacuum lines on that section, so the fuel pressure gage needle would oscillate as air was being sucked in. Incidentally, if your gage starts "dancing" look for a leak in the vacuum part of your fuel system. Tubing from the pump to the carb is all on the same vibration object but it has lasted 55 years with out failure. How can I be sure? Well have you ever tried replacing AC type fittings? Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "kempthornes" Subject: RE: RV-List: AN Fittings > --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes > > At 09:12 AM 2/13/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Hawkins > > > >My EAA tech advisor A&PIA says no aluminum on fuel lines FWF. The fact is, > >I've seen aluminum fittings on fuel lines FWF on "certified" airplanes. > > My Beech Debonair has aluminum fuel lines & fittings FWF and they have been > there for 38 years and 4900 hours apparently without a problem. Your tech > advisor might be well advised to recommend what works rather than plowing > new ground. > IMHO > Now if you had a situation where you might be concerned about tiles coming > off on re-entry..... > > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > RV6-a N7HK flying! > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:03 AM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com I would love to have a Rocket expecially now that I have built an 8A. The Harmon Rocket is a tough kit to complete ... like building an RV-4. The Team Rocket only comes as a quick build so you better be ready to lay out $30,000 - $35,000 up front. Even with all the power of my 8A, O-360, CS prop, etc. .... I would love to have a Rocket !!! Next project ????? Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, N.C. N910LL 55 hours ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:08 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Diesel Power --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 02:55 AM 2/13/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" > >Bill > >The WAM120 costs approx 15,000 Dollars US plus tax's the 160 HP version is >around 20,000. The firewall forward package is about the same as Vans >with regard to engine mount and cowl but the installation is considerably >simpler and will/should reflect a lower final cost. Apart from the single >lever control the engine comes with inbuilt oil cooler, and it's water >cooled so no friging about with air baffling. A data logging system is >available to monitor engine vitals, this is bussed to a cockpit display >via a single RS232 connection. Wow! Super. This sounds like the way to go. Keep us all posted as your project progresses. I'd very much like to go with diesel when I buy my power plant. This sort of stuff is why the "experimental" category was created. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:53 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: plexi and proseal --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > >No surface prep is necessary assuming you'll have the usual rivets thru >the plexi. Wipe any oil off the plexi with rubbing alcohol. Careful with alcohol on Plexiglass. Machined surfaces that have not been stress relived (like drilled holes or edges that have not been "flamed") have tiny surface cracks. The alcohol can penetrate and lubricate these tiny surface cracks and cause them to grow quickly, causing "crazing." ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:34 AM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? Insurance, otherwise I'd be building an F1 right now. Randy Lervold RV-8, 295 hrs www.rv-8.com Home Wing VAF ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:55 AM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior A local builder here in the Vancouver area has built the holy triumvirate of tandem RV-types, the -4, the -8, and now the HRII. Of the three he still likes the HRII the best. One of the big things he likes about it over the -8 is the room for your feet. The -8 has the landing gear boxes right about where your shins are in the cockpit, so as a result your feet are about 6 inches apart (if that) when you're flying. The HRII has the gear on the engine mount, and the pedals are spread out much more comfortably. I suspect the -8 may have more room inside, but that's just a guess based on a cursory visual inspection. It'll be a little slower, but will burn a bunch less fuel too. -RB4 Dr. Leathers wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? > > Also, if there are any Rocket builders lurking out there, what made you decide to go with your rocket over the RV8/8A? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:20 AM PST US From: "Bob n' Lu Olds" Subject: RV-List: < Re: RV or Rocket ???????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob n' Lu Olds" Doc ; You might want to take a look at Chip Gibbons website. He ia building a Rocket in NW Arkansas. > www.rocketclubhouse.com < Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X Charleston,Arkansas ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:41 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: plexi and proseal --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" As the flaming of edges is mentioned in the email below; Some time ago there was a strong advisory email from someone cautioning against flaming edges of Plexiglas. For anyone intending to "flame" edges, the information seemed well presented and should be sought out in the archives and examined. Please don't "flame" my edges(;-}!! Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dube" Subject: Re: RV-List: plexi and proseal > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > > > > >No surface prep is necessary assuming you'll have the usual rivets thru > >the plexi. Wipe any oil off the plexi with rubbing alcohol. > > Careful with alcohol on Plexiglass. Machined surfaces that have > not been stress relived (like drilled holes or edges that have not been > "flamed") have tiny surface cracks. The alcohol can penetrate and lubricate > these tiny surface cracks and cause them to grow quickly, causing "crazing." > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:18 AM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: AN Fittings --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" Anyway, all the fittings on the Aeroquip hose accessories that Van's sells are aluminum, aren't they? Cheers!!-------Henry H. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:30 AM PST US From: "John Starn" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" LONG AND WORDY. Do not archive. One plane at a time... RV-4: Have flown in -4 several times. Kinda tight at the shoulders and without the heel cups tough to fit in the back seat for a long time. I'm 6-0 240# and my legs get in the way of the canopy cross member. -4 is "U-drill" the holes and is much more of a challenge than the later -7, -8 and -9 RV's with the pre-punch. Not just of the drilling holes but the jigs and alignment problems that don't exist with pre-punch. Have observed construction of -4, -6, -7, -8, -9 (& A's) and of course the HRII in our hanger. RV-8: More room than the -4 because of the cowl being widened to cover the engine (no cowl cheeks) and that width carried back which widens both the front and rear cockpits. HRII has more leg, hip and shoulder room in both front and rear seats. The pre-punch is a huge advantage over the early RV's and the HRII in construction. The foot room in front of a -8 vs HRII makes the HRII a winner. 561FS has the battery between the rudder foot wells and still has lots of area for in-flight foot movement. HRII: Much the hardest to build. You take some -4 parts from supplier "V", mix and fit with other parts from supplier "HR", nothing is pre-drilled, pre-aligned or done for you (QB types). HRII has more room everywhere (wider, longer, taller) except between the firewall and engine. Have flown with -4 and -6 (and other makes) along side the HRII in search of a hamburger. They all fly out about the same amount of fuel when the HRII power is pulled way back and set to fly with a -4 or -6 but with a lot in reserve. We normally take off last as we have no problem catching up with anyone. F-1: Have seen several but not flown nor helped to build an F-1. Have used several of Marks Rocket products on 561FS and find them all to be great. F-1 is only available in Quickbuild mode so the cost up front is a lot more than the HRII and because 49% (yea, right) has been done for you it builds quicker. The F-1's I've seen were built by "others" which is OK if you have lots of money. Bottom line (from my point of view): I enjoyed the building of 561FS, BUT it did take 5 years of blood, sweat and tears. I know every rivet, some 16,000+, up close and personal. Tom, Wendell and I did not assemble somebody else's pre-made sections, we made and assembled a bunch of aluminum sheets, angle and "stuff" into a flying Rocket. Took apart and under the direction of an AI assembled everything including the IO-540. Would I do it again ? Yes. Would I build another HRII rather than a -7, -8, -9 ? Yes (but I sure wish HRII came in an "a" model.) Would I buy a QB of any type ? No. Would I change anything the next time ? Yes. Four seats and pre-punched, come on RV-10, our next project. 561FS is not the fastest Rocket, the best looking and was financed and owned by Gummibear but somewhere in there it's still, in some small part, "MY ROCKET". Would I trade it for the RV-10 ? NO. I would want both. Would I trade it for anything else, maybe a T-28D or and F-86H. (Tom would choose an F-4E) MAYBE....... KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Help!!!! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:15 AM PST US From: Stuart B McCurdy Subject: RV-List: RV-8 or Rocket --> RV-List message posted by: Stuart B McCurdy Doc, I went through the same decision about two years ago. Here's my thought process and why I decided on the RV-8, recognizing I live very close to my friend Mark Frederick and his Rocket facility. RV-8 1. Spring steel gear rather than the rod gear with its wheel dance. 2. Front and rear baggage for cross loading rather than stuffing it all behind the rear seat, creating a more aft CG. 3. Insurance costs lower and easier to obtain for RV-8. 4. IO-360 vs IO-540. I spend 90% of my flying in formation, mostly with other RVs, but also with various other experimental and general aviation aircraft like Bonanzas, Grummans. I would rather spend that time at more normal power settings rather than low power settings. 5. The looks of the RV-8 slick lower cowl rather than the airscoop. 6. Inflight adjustable rudder pedals. 7. More room between rear of engine and firewall for maintenance on the mag, oil filter, prop gov, fuel pump, pneumatic pump. 8. RV-8 less expensive to achieve a responsive formation platform. 9. Van's Aircraft has a 25 year history of excellent product support. Rocket Great looking airplane with lots of power and performance. Mark is a great, hard working, knowledgeable, trustworthy guy. If it was not for my formation flying interests, I might have chosen the Rocket. But, for the above reasons, I chose the RV-8. Now shall we have a debate over the RV-8 vs the RV-8A! Stu McCurdy RV-8, 78TX, 240hrs RV-3, 74TX, 800hrs Time: 09:27:36 PM PST US From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" Help!!!! OK guys, I think I have decided on tandem over side by side. The RV7 is sweet, but I know that I'll be alone 90% of the time, just like now, in my spam can. Given that, the RV8 is the logical choice because of the advanced kit (over the RV4) and the fact that I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs. Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? Also, if there are any Rocket builders lurking out there, what made you decide to go with your rocket over the RV8/8A? I'm not looking to start a war, I really just want to hear a well thought out debate from those who know more than I do, (read "anyone who has begun the process of doing what I'm about to do"). TIA DOC ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:10 AM PST US From: Brian Huffaker Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_IS_LIST,SUPERLONG_LINE, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Huffaker On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Dr. Leathers wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Help!!!! > > OK guys, I think I have decided on tandem over side by side. The RV7 is sweet, but I know that I'll be alone 90% of the time, just like now, in my spam can. Given that, the RV8 is the logical choice because of the advanced kit (over the RV4) and the fact that I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs. > > Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? I looked at the options, and decided that the rocket was just a bit too hot for me. Higher wing loading, lower power loading, just more than I wanted to take on as a pilot. Even with the 8A I plan to be in the lower performance end, build it light: day-vfr, no gyros, no lights, O-320, wood prop. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 Installing seat floor. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:57 PM PST US From: Ron Patterson --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson Doc Leather brings up the question I have been wrestling with as well. Anyone having an idea or opinion about the various 3 aircraft, please let us in on your decision making process. Thanks, Ron Patterson - California (RV-4??, RV-8??, F1 Rocket?, HRll??) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:08 PM PST US From: Bob Japundza Subject: RV-List: Re: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza Being an RV-6 builder/driver and F1 builder, having flown both an RV-8 and a HR2, I can tell you that as soon as I rode in the Rocket I fell in love. It is night and day different when comparing them to RV's. There is NO COMPARISON. Consider the following: 1. Burns less gas when flying at the same speed as RV's. 2. More power. More room in the front cockpit, back seat has more legroom. 3. Insurance isn't out of line if you consider that your hull coverage is twice what it is with an RV. I was quoted $2800/yr. To me it's the price of admission. 4. More comfortable cockpit. In the RV-8, I found that I didn't particularly care for rudder pedals being so close togther, or the gear towers. The panel is closer and lower. In a roll I had the stick well into my thigh. Roll rate is better in the Rocket. Vertical performance is also much better. I'm not knocking the -8, I just didn't "feel at home" in it. I do in a RV-4, more than I do than in my -6. 5. Engines are cheaper (that will change.) I paid 7K for my 540, zero-time but overhauled 20 years ago and never installed. Bought a prop for $1800, 300 smoh. Add it all up and I will about the same $$ as building a 200hp-C/S QB RV. Maybe even less. 6. Most Rocket guys cruise at very low power settings, thus improving the life of the engine and burn less gas than an IO-360-powered RV. 11 gph is typical for cruise. Depends on who's buying the gas. 6. Chicks dig cool planes. 7. Not everyone has one. 8. Tandem seating is the way to go. Tons more room, you aren't rubbing elbows, etc. 10. I'd rather fly than bang rivets every evening and having built a prehistoric era RV-6, QB is the only way to go. 9. Yes it costs more, but I drive a beat-up jeep and would rather invest my money in airplanes than waste it on a car payment. ok?? Bob Japundza RV-6 flying, F1 QB working on canopy do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:32 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: plexi and proseal --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 10:18 AM 2/14/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" >Some time ago there was a strong advisory email from someone cautioning >against flaming edges of Plexiglas. For anyone intending to "flame" edges, >the information seemed well presented and should be sought out in the >archives and examined. I looked up the archives on broken canopies and "flaming" pro and con. There is something to be said either way on flaming. Done correctly, it seems to work. Done incorrectly, it seems to make the situation worse instead of better. Carefully sanding and then polishing the edges seems to be a more conservative approach than flaming as it can't be done "incorrectly." The main point I was making was confirmed in the archives, however. The use of solvents on machined Plexiglas surfaces can result in crazing. LocTite was the culprit in the archives. I have seen crazing caused by alcohol, silicone oil, mineral spirits, and gasoline. In all cases the surface(s) had been machined (drilled, turned, or milled.) Machined surfaces not in contact with the solvent were not crazed or were not as severely crazed. Unmachined surfaces showed no crazing. Bottom line; think twice before wetting a machined surface on Plexiglas with any solvent. Might be fun to flame a piece of Plexiglas on one edge and leave the other raw, then drop it in a bottle of alcohol and see what happens. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:52 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" TOO HOT - TOO HOT (Brian, I see that you fly a Starduster so I am not really trying to flame your answer but give my opinion on too hot and tailwheel at the same time.) Before the late 1940's, EVERYBODY learned to fly in a tail wheel aircraft. So for those who say, I can't or I don't want to learn to fly a tail wheel plane, HOG WASH. Those early pilots aren't any better than the us modern pilots. Is it harder to land a tail wheel plane, maybe. It just keeps flying until taxi speed unlike a trigear which quits after the mains are on the ground. Today I took a "new" hundred hour pilot up in the Rocket. He couldn't believe how easy it was to fly. He was doing 60 degree bank turns and hitting the prop wash at the 360 degree point. The plane is a dream to fly, just like all RVs. I totally believe if you can fly a RV-4 or RV-8, you can fly a rocket. TOO HOT is just a mind set that can be changed with a little training. Just an opinion - my opinion but then you get what you pay for on this list. I LOVE MY ROCKET but believe you will be happy with any of the RV series planes. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA HR-II flying do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Huffaker" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_IS_LIST,SUPERLONG_LINE, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 > --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Huffaker > > On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Dr. Leathers wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > > > Help!!!! > > > > OK guys, I think I have decided on tandem over side by side. The RV7 is sweet, but I know that I'll be alone 90% of the time, just like now, in my spam can. Given that, the RV8 is the logical choice because of the advanced kit (over the RV4) and the fact that I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs. > > > > Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? > > I looked at the options, and decided that the rocket was just a bit too > hot for me. Higher wing loading, lower power loading, just more than I > wanted to take on as a pilot. Even with the 8A I plan to be in the lower > performance end, build it light: day-vfr, no gyros, no lights, O-320, wood > prop. > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com) > RV-8A 80091 Installing seat floor. > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:29 PM PST US From: Ed_Cole@maximhq.com Subject: RV-List: Fuel System Parts for Sale --> RV-List message posted by: Ed_Cole@maximhq.com If anyone is interested I have the following for sale..... ACS Gascolator with bracket....new $40 (list is $65 for both pieces) Essex Fuel Primer.................used $75 (new list is $147) Contact me offline at edwardmcole@attbi.com Ed Cole RV6A N2169D Flying RV6A N648RV Finishing ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:11 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: RV-List: Re: --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer I well give you some really cheap advice, build what you like and don't base your choice on what someone else likes. In the end you well be the only one that has to be satisfied. Rockets are great airplanes but not all of you "jet jock want to be" are up to building OR flying one. I have ridden with John Harmon in his Rocket and absolutely loved it but in the end would I be happier if I had one? I doubt it, because to go faster you well burn more fuel and if you are going to just cruise around with your RV buddies at their speed then why do you need a Rocket. Yes it is great to climb at 3500fpm and go sailing by your buddies in their slow RVs but how many times are you going to do that? Tandems are fine but I like having my wife who is my best flying buddy up front with me. If you're single or your family does not like to fly YMMV. Jerry do not archive Ron Patterson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson > > > Doc Leather brings up the question I have been wrestling with as well. Anyone having an idea or opinion about the various 3 aircraft, please let us in on your decision making process. > > Thanks, > > Ron Patterson - California (RV-4??, RV-8??, F1 Rocket?, HRll??) > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:51 PM PST US From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" Thanks Bob, Well said!! DOC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Japundza" Subject: RV-List: Re: RV or Rocket????? > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza > > Being an RV-6 builder/driver and F1 builder, having > flown both an RV-8 and a HR2, I can tell you that as > soon as I rode in the Rocket I fell in love. It is > night and day different when comparing them to RV's. > There is NO COMPARISON. Consider the following: > > 1. Burns less gas when flying at the same speed as > RV's. > 2. More power. More room in the front cockpit, back > seat has more legroom. > 3. Insurance isn't out of line if you consider that > your hull coverage is twice what it is with an RV. I > was quoted $2800/yr. To me it's the price of > admission. > 4. More comfortable cockpit. In the RV-8, I found > that I didn't particularly care for rudder pedals > being so close togther, or the gear towers. The panel > is closer and lower. In a roll I had the stick well > into my thigh. Roll rate is better in the Rocket. > Vertical performance is also much better. I'm not > knocking the -8, I just didn't "feel at home" in it. > I do in a RV-4, more than I do than in my -6. > 5. Engines are cheaper (that will change.) I paid 7K > for my 540, zero-time but overhauled 20 years ago and > never installed. Bought a prop for $1800, 300 smoh. > Add it all up and I will about the same $$ as building > a 200hp-C/S QB RV. Maybe even less. > 6. Most Rocket guys cruise at very low power > settings, thus improving the life of the engine and > burn less gas than an IO-360-powered RV. 11 gph is > typical for cruise. Depends on who's buying the gas. > 6. Chicks dig cool planes. > 7. Not everyone has one. > 8. Tandem seating is the way to go. Tons more room, > you aren't rubbing elbows, etc. > 10. I'd rather fly than bang rivets every evening and > having built a prehistoric era RV-6, QB is the only > way to go. > 9. Yes it costs more, but I drive a beat-up jeep and > would rather invest my money in airplanes than waste > it on a car payment. > > ok?? > > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying, F1 QB working on canopy > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:26 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: Eyeball vents --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube Someone was looking for eyeball vents. Here are a pair on Ebay. Item #2403596290 They may not be the exact brand you were looking for, but they are sharp looking. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:58 PM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" There is no replacement for displacment! I have flown both, and it is easy, go for the Rocket! Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr@petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:55 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >> >Now, I would like to ask all RV8/8A builders, past and present, why did you >choose the RV over a Harmon Rocket or an F1 Rocket? > In '97 when I started, the Rocket was a pretty rare breed. I had no knowlege of the strength of the company backing the product, nor the history of the airplane in general. I decided that my first airplane project would have to come from a very reputable company, with a proven track record. So, the RV8 was it for me. The insurance issue was completely unknown to me at the time, but with what I now know about it, even if I wanted a Rocket I couldn't afford to own it. Still, I love the way it looks! It's one helluva sexy airplane. They are quite roomy inside as well. I had always thought they were no wider than an RV4. Wrong! Plenty of room. If I was looking to build an airplane now, and the Rocket was no more expensive to insure, I would seriously consider one. Any RV is an excellent choice. Every model has it's pros and cons, but the pros seriously outweigh the cons every time! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:17 PM PST US From: "John Starn" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" DO NOT ARCHIVE What's the most ask question about the HRII ? Why do all you Rocket guys do those vertical climb outs ? Answer: (No, I never get tired of saying it) Because we can. If its any RV or derivative thereof it's a joy to build and a larger thrill to fly. KABONG 8 ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV or Rocket????? ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:56 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: [ Daniel Carley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Daniel Carley Subject: Twin Towers http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/DFCPAC@aol.com.02.14.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com