Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Cool running (Arthur and Christine)
2. 12:22 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (Arthur and Christine)
3. 03:42 AM - Re: > Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink (Dana Overall)
4. 03:59 AM - Re: Oil on Belly (Dave von Linsowe)
5. 04:55 AM - Re: Brakes Sticking?? (Dan DeNeal)
6. 05:07 AM - Re: Eyeballs & Carb Heat (Wayne R. Couture)
7. 06:02 AM - Re: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps (John Huft)
8. 06:07 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (Bill Marvel)
9. 06:30 AM - Re: Cool running (Alex Peterson)
10. 06:37 AM - Re: Eyeballs & Carb Heat (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
11. 06:41 AM - Re: Cool running (Bill Marvel)
12. 06:43 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (Cy Galley)
13. 06:49 AM - Re: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps (Bill Marvel)
14. 06:49 AM - Re: AOA audio out to UPS/Apollo GX-65 intercom (Charles Rowbotham)
15. 06:56 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (JRWillJR@aol.com)
16. 07:10 AM - Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink (Jordan Grant)
17. 07:12 AM - Re: Eyeballs & Carb Heat (Cy Galley)
18. 07:17 AM - Re: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps (Dave von Linsowe)
19. 07:19 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (Dave von Linsowe)
20. 07:24 AM - Re: Cool running (Randy Lervold)
21. 07:30 AM - Ant. distance (Larry Bowen)
22. 08:15 AM - Re: Hangar Fire (Dr. Leathers)
23. 08:33 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (Bill Marvel)
24. 08:38 AM - Re: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps (John Huft)
25. 08:52 AM - Re: Cool running (Alex Peterson)
26. 09:01 AM - Re: Hangar Fire (James E. Clark)
27. 09:02 AM - Re: Hangar Fire (Hal Rozema)
28. 09:12 AM - Fw: Adequate Carb Heat (Eustace Bowhay)
29. 09:46 AM - Re: Fw: Adequate Carb Heat (Jerry Springer)
30. 09:49 AM - Re: Ant. distance (Brian Denk)
31. 09:50 AM - Re: Hangar Fire (Steve Struyk)
32. 09:54 AM - Skybolt Cowl Attachment (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
33. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink (Dana Overall)
34. 10:11 AM - Re: Hangar Fire (HCRV6@aol.com)
35. 10:40 AM - Re: Skybolt Cowl Attachment (fgoggio)
36. 10:43 AM - Re: Hangar Fire (Karie Daniel)
37. 11:15 AM - Rudder wiring. (Todd Rudberg)
38. 11:25 AM - Re: Cool running (Mark Phillips)
39. 12:10 PM - Re: Brakes Sticking?? (Sam Buchanan)
40. 02:16 PM - Carb Cleaner as pre-prime cleaner? ()
41. 02:40 PM - Re: Rudder wiring. (Jim Oke)
42. 02:40 PM - Re: "Survey" (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
43. 03:10 PM - Re: interior paint woes (perfeng@3rivers.net)
44. 04:01 PM - Re: Brakes Sticking?? (Dan DeNeal)
45. 04:14 PM - Re: Rudder wiring. (Larry Bowen)
46. 04:14 PM - : Adequate Carb Heat/Prop Pitching (JRWillJR@aol.com)
47. 04:24 PM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (William Davis)
48. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: "Survey" (Jerry Springer)
49. 05:21 PM - Re:ELT Antenna (Dave Bristol)
50. 05:53 PM - was, Brakes Sticking??; now, engine test runs (Sam Buchanan)
51. 05:55 PM - Fw: Re: "Survey" (Daniel A. Storer)
52. 05:56 PM - Re: Prop testing data posted (Kevin Horton)
53. 06:08 PM - Re: ELT Antenna (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
54. 06:16 PM - HS Nose Ribs (Glenn Brasch)
55. 06:22 PM - Re: "Survey" (Daniel A. Storer)
56. 06:32 PM - Re: Cool running (Richard Sipp)
57. 06:39 PM - Wanted: Used Stuff! (Michael Saffold)
58. 06:54 PM - Re: Cool running (David Aronson)
59. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: "Survey" (Chris)
60. 07:29 PM - Re: Carb Cleaner as pre prime cleaner (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
61. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: "Survey" (Chris)
62. 07:48 PM - Re: HS Nose Ribs (david just david)
63. 07:58 PM - Re: Re: "Survey" (Jerry Springer)
64. 08:29 PM - Re: was, Brakes Sticking??; now, engine test runs (Bill Marvel)
65. 08:51 PM - Re: HS Nose Ribs (Bill Marvel)
66. 08:58 PM - N169AK First Flight (Andy Karmy)
67. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: "Survey" (Bill Marvel)
68. 09:08 PM - Re: N169AK First Flight (Bill Marvel)
69. 09:09 PM - Exhaust system (Russ Alnutt)
70. 09:09 PM - Re: N169AK First Flight (John Schnebeck)
71. 09:13 PM - Tip-up canopy frame...are the instructions really in English? (Dan Checkoway)
72. 09:21 PM - Re: Re: "Survey" (Jerry Springer)
73. 09:34 PM - Alcad Priming ()
74. 09:42 PM - Cracks in quickbuild WD603-R&L and WD-602-R&L (phil jones)
75. 09:59 PM - Re: Alcad Priming (Bill Marvel)
76. 11:44 PM - Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) (czechsix@juno.com)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
Hi,
Briefly the cylinder head temps on our RV-8 are running too cool and I am
open to any ideas on how to increase them, has anyone had this problem
before? If so what was your solution?
We recently had the pleasure of the company of, Harry Fenton from Unison,
Adrian McHardy (Asia-Pacific Rep) and Paul McBride from Lycoming. They
unanimously agreed that we need to up our CHT's from the 290 to 300 degree F
range to 350 acceptable or 380 preferable.
Suggestions so far have been holes in baffles to dump some of the HP air or
dams against the leading cylinders (Lycoming guys) and to reducing inlet
area (Tom Green Van's).
What we have-
RV-8, HO-360-C1A converted with an updraft sump and airflow performance
injection, sensenich metal propeller, oil cooler on baffel behind Nr. 4
cylinder.
Air inlets 3.5" high reducing to about 2.8" between the inlet ramp and the
fibreglass flow smoother on the top cowl.
CHT's in climb 90kts full power - 294, 316, 328, 292
CHT's in cruies 3000' 23.5" 2700rpm about 160kts IAS leaned - 278, 308, 318,
283
What I have done so far-
1) Dam against front of nr. 1 cylinder plus a speed bump (very aerodynamic
about .75" high) at front of left inlet ramp.
Effect-
Climb 100kts full power - 343, 314, 323, 299
Cruise - 322, 305, 305, 282
So dam increased Nr 1 and deacreased Nr 3 with no overall increase in temps.
Speed bump had zero effect, air just wizzed right on trough as with a
venturi.
I have permanently installed a smaller dam agains the Nr 1 cylinder head.
2) Removed about 30 percent of the baffell rubber seal from back of engine.
Effect-
Negligable rise in temps; all that effort putting that rubber seal on for
what? :)
3) Bent some 32 thou alclad strips and pop riveted them to the very front of
the inlet ramps to form a 1.1" high dam across each ramp (who cares about
smooth airflow!)
Effect-
Climb - 352, 340, 350, 322
Cruise - 353, 352, 343, 307
I have checked the calibration of the CHT guage (electronics internation) by
checking the readings on all probes early in the morning on the RV-8 and our
Cessna 206. All readings egt and cht on both aeroplanes were within 3 deg F
of others.
Put CHT probes from 2 and 4 cylinders in a jug of boiling water, both read
204 deg f which I presume is about right for an elevation of 1350'.
I have swapped the injectors on Nr's 2 and 4 cylinders to see if a faulty
injector is causing the cylinder to run cooler than the others. Will fly
tomorrow to check though a quick comparison of EGT's today did not point to
a fault.
A knowledgable person suggested that the oil cooler on the baffle would draw
more air to the back increasing the cooling for the Nr. 4 cylinder.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Cheers,
Arthur Whitehead
Very cool RV-8 with about 8.5 hours air time.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
Hi Stein,
Asked sensenich just the other day, here is the reply.
"Arthur,
This is very good news. You are correct that the 85 pitch is obviously not
loading the engine and a pitch adjustment is in order which will give you
more cruising speed. Most RV-8's are using the 85 pitch so you either have a
clean, light aircraft or a great engine, or a combination of both.
First off, I would recommend going to an 87, maybe even an 88. These
propellers can be twisted a total of 8 inches from their median pitch which
in this case is an 83. Therefore we are well within the pitch limits. That
will not be a problem. The reason I recommended an 87 pitch is simply
because I would rather see you go up gradually rather then go up to the 88
and then realize that the 87 would have been better. Now you could go back
down to the 87 because it is within the 8 total inches, but you are running
low on pitch limits at that point. Either way is not a wrong decision, I
just tend to be a little more conservative.
You have a good prop shop in New Zealand who should be able to handle the
job for you. I believe they have seen this prop before but I'm not sure.
Either way it shouldn't be a problem because this is a normal Sensenich prop
as far as repitching goes. If they don't have the specs and tooling, they
know where I am to get it.
FLIGHTLINE AVIATION
ARDMORE AIRPORT
PAPKURA AUCKLAND
Contact: BRIAN SUTHERLAND
64-9-299-6710
Please keep me informed on what is happening. I'm sure I'll hear a word or
two from Flightline also. If you have any other questions or need
clarification, please let me know.
Ed"
Cheers,
Arthur Whitehead
RV-8 8.5hrs.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: > Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Yep, throw the crosslink in there. It is easy to gauge, just mix up what
you are going to use that day. The theory is to chemically link dried
applications as the carrier (water) evaporates, leaving only the dry filler
material.
I have put on numerous forums on Smoothprime. I was the national gathering
host for two years for a "plastic" airplane and put forums on there with
provided material from Poly Fiber, in addition to forums in Arkansas and
somewhere else that eludes me at this time.
Roll the stuff and dry sand it off, leaving only the material that fills the
pinholes and weave. If will sand off very easily. If you are going to use
smoothprime as a primer/UV roll on (do not spray on, rolling is easier and
fills the holes better, you are going to sand the stuff anyway) the next
several layers and dry sand to a smooth finish. Paint over that. If you do
not want to use smoothprime as a primer, after you sanded the first several
layers down to the point of leaving only the pinhole filling material....use
whatever primer you want.
I have used literally gallons and gallons of this stuff and tried several
different ways to cheat the system to see what would happen. About the only
way, in normal use, you are going to muck it up is to wet
sand..........don't do it, dry sand. This is a water based application
which evaporates leaving only the filler material behind to be sanded. It
dry sands like there is not tomorrow. You will feel like Pigpin leaving a
cloud of white dust.
Nope, I don't get paid by Poly Fiber. I do still have several gallons of
the stuff from prior forums along with a "little" Super Fil.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil on Belly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
In discussing performance mods with Ly-Con a couple of years ago, they said
that on Sean Tucker's engine they port the crankcase vent (after the
inverted oil system) to a low pressure point in the exhaust system. This
did two things for them, reduced weight because on aerobatic airplanes the
vent typically runs all the way back to the tail and that they picked up 5
hp on the dyno from reducing crankcase pressure.
I've tried to verify this from other sources because I was thinking about
installing an Air Wolf oil/air separator which uses vacuum pump exhaust
pressure to pressurize the system. Their claim is that the air from the
vacuum pump helps spin the oil/air for better separation and theirs is the
only one that will return the oil back to the engine while the engine is
running.
Dave
RV-6
The need for speed--->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
<kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
>
> The venturi effect is exactly what happens if you create a venturi by
> misinstalling the breather tube and by providing a source (such as a loose
> dipstick) so the venturi can draw air and oil through your engine.
>
> KB
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Brakes Sticking?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
The first comment you made about quite taxiing and
start flying is something I can't wait to do. However,
I am waiting for my final inspection and one thing in
the paperwork said they wanted 1 hour of taxiing time
before coming out to inspect. And, all this taxiing
has allowed me to get a better feel for this airplane.
I have discovered a mag problem and a broken vacuum
pump, not to mention the brakes. Discovering all this
on the ground sure makes me glad I'm still on the
ground. :
)
--- Gary Zilik <zilik@direcpc.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik
> <zilik@direcpc.com>
>
> First of all quit taxiing and start flying. If you
> have a new or
> overhauled engine taxiing is the worst thing you
> could possibly do to it.
>
> As for the brakes; Depending on how old your parts
> are there was a mess
> of Cleveland cylinders with weak springs that needed
> replacement. The
> matco master cylinders (internal spring) is now
> standard and this
> problem does not apply. I find that many builders
> install all the
> hardware a little to tight on the pedals so to keep
> the loose play to a
> minimum. This is about the only place where you want
> everything a little
> loose so that there can be no binding of the
> pedals. Make sure
> everything is loose, and if you have the external
> springs then maybe you
> need new replacements.
>
> One post mentioned the paint on the disks as a
> possible problem. I think
> the paint rubs off on the first application of
> brakes but this could
> possibly add to the problem. Also if the brakes are
> dragging so bad that
> you cannot push the plane then they are real hot
> too. This can be hard
> on the seals. I had one dragging and it got hot
> enough to melt the
> elastic insert in the fiber locknuts. Ruined the
> internal seal too.
>
> Gary
>
> Dan denial wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal
> <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I have been doing a lot of taxing around the
> airport
> >the last several days. And each time I come back to
> >the hangar, I can't push or pull the airplane by
> >myself into the hangar. It seems the brakes are
> >sticking. How do I correct this problem?
> >
> >Dan DeNeal
> >rv6a - N256GD
> >
> >http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Eyeballs & Carb Heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
This eye problem can be overcome by following one simple addage. I quote: "
When you break ground, fly into the wind. Don't break wind and fly into the
ground!"
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eyeballs & Carb Heat
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
>
> George McNutt wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: -------
> >
> >
> > --------------big snip ---------------------
> >
> > It just irritates the hell out of me when I hear people say well I might
> > be in a situation where I can't help flying into some kind of adverse
> > weather, that is total BS, anyone with their eyeballs open can see what
> > kind of weather they are flying in and take preventative action.
> > Anyone that flies into know weather conditions beyond their experience
> > or the ability of their aircraft should maybe take up basket weaving.
> >
> > I guess with this one I better get out the old flame suit.
> > -----------------------------
> >
> > (1) Eyeballs!
> >
> > Yes - since you suggested it here is your flame, and possibly a new
> > discussion.
> >
> > - It would not be good PR for flight schools or the aviation industry to
> > advertise the fact that the human visual system is one of the weakest
> > components of our VFR flight system. There are many situations where
you, or
> > myself, could fly into the ground, water, cloud or another aircraft
without
> > being able to detect same with our mark one eyeballs!!
> > If you disagree try flying across Greenland without your altimeter.
> >
> > The next time you line up on the runway remember that your depth
perception
> > system reaches all the way out to the first runway light, your judgment
of
> > how far away distant objects are is based on experience not your
eyeballs,
> > judging your distance from some cloud is impossible.
> >
> > Unfortunately life is to short to experience all the lighting, weather,
and
> > optical illusions that one can encounter in flying, however experience
and
> > training can prevent many of the risks associated with our inadequate
> > (20/20) mark one eyeballs.
> >
>
> Gee Gorge I guess maybe if that is the case I just as well put on
> blinders and go fly. :-) Yes eyeballs can be tricked, BUT in the end
> it is still a see and be seen environment. I am not talking necessarily
> about judging distances from clouds I am talking about seeing the damn
> thing in the first place. It is not judging distance from them that is
> the problem it is idiots sitting there in the cockpit fat dumb and happy
> and pushing into weather they or their airplane have no business flying
> into. My goal is to have people set limits for their themselves based on
> their experience. If a person does not have experience to judge how far
> they are from the clouds or any situation they don't have experience
> with stay away from it tell you can make a informed decision. I agree
> with you that experience and training and I might add common sense are
> the key to long flying carriers. If it seems I am harping on this
> weather and ability thing it is because I have lost more friends by
> flying into weather situations than any other aspect of flying.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
>
> > (2) Carb Heat
> >
> > - the FAR's say that at 30 degrees F. your carb heat must produce a 90
> > degree F rise at 75% power, I have never had a certified light aircraft
> > (with CAT gauge) that could produce that much heat.
> >
> > I would be interested in hearing from others how much temperature rise
their
> > RV's (with CAT) are getting when carb heat is selected on.
> > In flight my carb temp shows about 10 deg F cooler than the OAT gauge
and I
> > get about a 15 degree F rise in CAT in flight when the carb heat is
selected
> > on. On run up on my 6A (0-320) I have a 30 RPM drop when carb heat is
> > selected on. I have a custom heat muff about 8" long on one crossover
pipe
> > and plan a new larger carb heat muff surrounding both crossover pipes.
> >
>
> Are you using the FAB from Van? All the heat in the world well not do
> you any good if you clog the filter with snow before you use carb heat.
> In thinking over the situation I can see how a alternate air source may
> be a good thing but I don't like any I have seen so far.
>
> > In flight I am getting higher carb temperature readings with carb heat
at
> > low power settings (approach) than I do at cruise power.
> >
> > (3) And the answer as to when carb heat could raise the temperature to
the
> > point where carb ice could occur, - when flying in ice crystals.
> >
> >
> > George McNutt
> > Langley, B.C.
> > 6A - 117 hrs
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil on Belly and air/oil seps |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
I have been watching this thread with some interest. I have a Ly-Con engine
in my -8, and also the 4-into-1 exhaust from Sky Dynamics, which was
recommended by Ly-Con. The breather is plumbed into the middle of the
exhaust collector, which causes a vacuum. I have heard about the HP increase
from NASCAR guys as well. Also, the prez of Sky Dynamics told me that the
system (which has been in use for years now on Pitts, Eagles etc) helps keep
the engine compartment clean because seals leak less (e.g. valve cover
gaskets etc). I have only a little exhaust soot on my belly. (actually, the
airplane's belly)
I have been flying only 52 hours now, but have had no leakage problems. So
far, I have managed to keep the filler cap on. With a normal breather
system, if you leave the cap off, you still have a big mess, just all over
the engine rather than on the belly (ask me how I know).
Now, to start a new argument...it seems to be more and more agreed that
returning the oil from the separator to the crankcase is a bad idea. We are
told to always fly long enough get the oil hot so the moisture will boil
off. I have had quite a few people tell me that the air/oil sep will pick up
the water with the oil and if so plumbed, return it to the crankcase. Not
good.
The new approach is to just trap this oil in a small holding can, and empty
it at oil change. For a healthy engine, it will total less than a quart per
50 hours or so. This can should have an overflow just in case.
Or, use the Sky Dynamics exhaust, and burn the oil and the water in the
exhaust. Or, use Van's system, and dribble the breather output onto the
outside of the exhaust pipe.
John Huft
52 hours, the eight is getting paint
www.lazy8.net/rv8.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
In discussing performance mods with Ly-Con a couple of years ago, they said
that on Sean Tucker's engine they port the crankcase vent (after the
inverted oil system) to a low pressure point in the exhaust system. This
did two things for them, reduced weight because on aerobatic airplanes the
vent typically runs all the way back to the tail and that they picked up 5
hp on the dyno from reducing crankcase pressure.
I've tried to verify this from other sources because I was thinking about
installing an Air Wolf oil/air separator which uses vacuum pump exhaust
pressure to pressurize the system. Their claim is that the air from the
vacuum pump helps spin the oil/air for better separation and theirs is the
only one that will return the oil back to the engine while the engine is
running.
Dave
RV-6
The need for speed--->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
<kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
>
> The venturi effect is exactly what happens if you create a venturi by
> misinstalling the breather tube and by providing a source (such as a loose
> dipstick) so the venturi can draw air and oil through your engine.
>
> KB
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Stein:
This may make a lot of people in the experimental community unhappy with me, but
here goes.
> Speaking of prop testing data, I have a similar (but different) question. I
> know this thread has been about C/S props, but mine is about the FP
> Sensenich. Here's my question,
>
> Has anyone twinted these beyone 85"?????
>
> I ask because of my data:
>
> I have a 180hp AEIO-360/B4A Lyc swinging an 85" sensenich.
> Static RPM 2250 - Full throttle up to 10.5K I can easily run to 2750-2800+
> RPM.
Having just looked through reams of RV accidents, both fatal and not, I was
surprised at the number involving broken prop blades. Personally, I would call
Sensenich and ask them. They know their product better than anyone and know the
implications of doing what you are thinking about. Some things are worth
experimenting with, but I don't think pushing the limits in the area of prop and
engine compatibility is one of them.
Bill Marvel
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> CHT's in climb 90kts full power - 294, 316, 328, 292
> CHT's in cruies 3000' 23.5" 2700rpm about 160kts IAS leaned -
> 278, 308, 318, 283
Arthur, a couple questions:
This just seems impossible that the 90kt full power climb temps are the
same as 160 knot cruise temps. From what altitude to what altitude do
the climbs represent? What is your fuel burn rate during full power?
Approx during what OAT were these temps noted? If all is accurate, I
need to come look at your plane and borrow some parts/ideas! What about
the gap under each cylinder and barrel in the baffles? Also, I'm not
sure why you would want to increase the temps, unless the CHT's
discussed were taken on a 90F day (implying that during winter ops, they
would be really low).
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 259 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Eyeballs & Carb Heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eyeballs & Carb Heat
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
>
> > My personal opinion... for what it is worth.... No VFR pilot should be
up
> > in anything less than absolute CAVU unless he is trained and comfortable
>
> under instrument conditions. This includes night VFR.
> >
>
> Oh, I really hate to read that kind of opinion.
I'm with you, Jim. Simplistic, dogmatic assertions are often not very
helpful.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cool running |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Hi:
From your post, it looks like you have pretty well covered the various available
options. I don't know how common it is to have too much cooling in an O- or
IO-360 but that surely is a nicer place to start than too little.
>
> Air inlets 3.5" high reducing to about 2.8" between the inlet ramp and the
> fibreglass flow smoother on the top cowl.
Is this is a modification from the kit cowling? I don't know the dimensions off
hand. Curious if you increased the opening.
> So dam increased Nr 1 and deacreased Nr 3 with no overall increase in temps.
> Speed bump had zero effect, air just wizzed right on trough as with a
> venturi.
>
I did the same thing with a dam in front of number 1 on my -8A with the same
result. Number 1 was too cool and number 3 too hot. The simple dam solved the
problem nicely.
>
> 2) Removed about 30 percent of the baffell rubber seal from back of engine.
>
> Effect-
>
> Negligable rise in temps; all that effort putting that rubber seal on for
> what? :)
>
It's heresy to say that, but I have noted the same thing on other airplanes.
Supposedly a small air leak the size of a quarter (don't know the NZ currency
size equivalent) is significant but I have never seen that. Maybe in some
airplane somewhere that size of air leak can cause a problem but I am
skeptical.
> 3) Bent some 32 thou alclad strips and pop riveted them to the very front of
> the inlet ramps to form a 1.1" high dam across each ramp (who cares about
> smooth airflow!)
>
> Effect-
>
> Climb - 352, 340, 350, 322
> Cruise - 353, 352, 343, 307
>
From your posted data, it seems like this mod, or a variation of it, is the way
you ought to go. After all, too cool means too much cooling air passing over
the engine and there are not a lot of options available to reduce it.
Certainly, closing off some of the inlet airflow is the first thing that comes
to mind since it is easy and simple. Could you make up a couple of sets -- the
one you have and another that blocks off even more flow to see if that works to
elevate the temps further? Depending on climate variations, you might even want
to use nut plates and switch them out for summer and winter.
> A knowledgable person suggested that the oil cooler on the baffle would draw
> more air to the back increasing the cooling for the Nr. 4 cylinder.
>
How is your oil temperature? You might want to consider covering up part of the
air inlet to it behind number 4 to see what effect this has both on number 4
CHT and on the oil temp. In my airplane (O-360-A1A and CS prop), my oil runs
too cool and the cooler inlet has to be partially covered, even in summer. This
would be an easy thing to check and would require just a little duct tape to
make the temporary cover.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. If you know Rob Leach, tell him I said hi.
Bill Marvel
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
According to my info from Sensenich you can twist a TOTAL of 8 inches from
the manufacturing pitch. You may already be there. If you twist 4
additional and then back 4 inches to the original point, I understand you
have "used" your entire allotment of 8 inches.
But if the factory did some twisting from the manufactured twist, then you
may scrapped the prop if the factory twist and your twist is more than the 8
inches. So before you start twisting, ask the factory the manufactured
pitch.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Speaking of prop testing data, I have a similar (but different) question.
I
> know this thread has been about C/S props, but mine is about the FP
> Sensenich. Here's my question,
>
> Has anyone twinted these beyone 85"?????
>
> I ask because of my data:
>
> I have a 180hp AEIO-360/B4A Lyc swinging an 85" sensenich.
> Static RPM 2250 - Full throttle up to 10.5K I can easily run to 2750-2800+
> RPM.
> I have a solid (aerobatic) crank, so I can't use a C/S, but I'm wondering
if
> I can put in a couple more inches of twist without harming the prop.
>
> #1) Is this wise?
> #2) Would I lose too much static RPM to offset the top end gain?
>
> Basically I'm just looking for a way to utilize some more hp at slower
> RPM's. I don't cruise around at 2750-2800RPM, usually around 2500. My
> engine is used, came off a Pitts, and I suspect it may be putting out a
bit
> more HP than I originally thought. The logs are a bit vague about what
was
> done at the last OH (600hrs ago), so I don't know if it's stock or not, I
> just know it runs like a banshee!
>
> Thanks in advance for any tips,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6, Minneapolis.
>
> Oh, and YES the C/S guys can out-climb me, but I keep up just fine (or
> better) on the top end.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
John:
Now, to start a new argument...it seems to be more and more agreed that
> returning the oil from the separator to the crankcase is a bad idea. We are
> told to always fly long enough get the oil hot so the moisture will boil
> off. I have had quite a few people tell me that the air/oil sep will pick up
> the water with the oil and if so plumbed, return it to the crankcase. Not
> good.
There is another issue here and is the reason I got rid of that type of
separator on my Grumman Tiger years ago. One of the methods we use to determine
engine health is oil consumption. If excess breather oil loss is the source of
high consumption, and it gets returned to the case, it serves to mask the
existence of the problem. I elected to just get on the creeper and clean the
belly of the Tiger and the -8A now and then.
Bill Marvel
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: AOA audio out to UPS/Apollo GX-65 intercom |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Mike,
We wired ours directly to the headset jacks - works well no issues.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
Rv8A
>Subject: RV-List: AOA audio out to UPS/Apollo GX-65 intercom
>Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:54:32 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Nightingale Michael"
><NightingaleMichaelV@JohnDeere.com>
>
>Question:
>
>Can the audio output (Bitching Betty) of the Proprietary Software AOA
>(Angle
>of Attack) be tied parallel to head phone output of the com. radio/intercom
>of a UPS GX-65. The AOA has output impedances of 560 Ohms & 26 Ohms and
>also has a volume control. We would like to use just the built-in intercom
>of GX-65.
>
>Thanks
>RV-9A
>90259
>Michael V. Nightingale
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
In a message dated 2/23/2003 8:08:36 AM Central Standard Time,
bmarvel@cox.net writes:
> This may make a lot of people in the experimental community unhappy with me,
> but
> here goes.
Not nearly as unhappy as you might be should the prop throw a blade. Get some
more opinions before doing that. It will definitly affect the props
integrity. Do Not Archive. JR
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant@sw.rr.com>
I'm sending this back to the list so it can be in the archives. You
never know - there may be somebody else out there with the same
question.
For what its worth, I did one layer with a roller, sanded it off, then
sprayed on a few more layers. I have yet to sand off the sprayed-on
layers, but for me, both methods seemed to work fine. I sure like
working with water instead of acetone/MEK/etc. though!
Thanks for the help,
-Jordan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Yep, throw the crosslink in there. It is easy to gauge, just mix up
what
you are going to use that day. The theory is to chemically link dried
applications as the carrier (water) evaporates, leaving only the dry
filler
material.
I have put on numerous forums on Smoothprime. I was the national
gathering
host for two years for a "plastic" airplane and put forums on there with
provided material from Poly Fiber, in addition to forums in Arkansas and
somewhere else that eludes me at this time.
Roll the stuff and dry sand it off, leaving only the material that fills
the
pinholes and weave. If will sand off very easily. If you are going to
use
smoothprime as a primer/UV roll on (do not spray on, rolling is easier
and
fills the holes better, you are going to sand the stuff anyway) the next
several layers and dry sand to a smooth finish. Paint over that. If
you do
not want to use smoothprime as a primer, after you sanded the first
several
layers down to the point of leaving only the pinhole filling
material....use
whatever primer you want.
I have used literally gallons and gallons of this stuff and tried
several
different ways to cheat the system to see what would happen. About the
only
way, in normal use, you are going to muck it up is to wet
sand..........don't do it, dry sand. This is a water based application
which evaporates leaving only the filler material behind to be sanded.
It
dry sands like there is not tomorrow. You will feel like Pigpin leaving
a
cloud of white dust.
Nope, I don't get paid by Poly Fiber. I do still have several gallons
of
the stuff from prior forums along with a "little" Super Fil.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Eyeballs & Carb Heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Pilots that haven't experienced low visibility are liable to panic when it
suddenly happens. They need some gradual experience do some flying in
limited VFR conditions. Remember the FAA requires some hood time but that is
not the same as actually getting into bad conditions accidentally.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eyeballs & Carb Heat
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort"
<gcomfo@tc3net.com>
>
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Eyeballs & Carb Heat
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> > > My personal opinion... for what it is worth.... No VFR pilot should be
> up
> > > in anything less than absolute CAVU unless he is trained and
comfortable
> >
> > under instrument conditions. This includes night VFR.
> > >
> >
> > Oh, I really hate to read that kind of opinion.
>
> I'm with you, Jim. Simplistic, dogmatic assertions are often not very
> helpful.
>
> Gordon Comfort
> N363GC
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
John,
How complete does the oil burn in the exhaust? Does the inside of the
exhaust pipes get caked up with carbon? How big is the orifice into the
exhaust, any chance of it getting carboned over? The 3/16" dia. smoke
injectors I had would need occasional cleaning.
I was taken back when I first saw the RV setup of dumping the vent on the
exhaust. After flying an airplane for many years that vented at the tail
wheel and had a polished exhaust system I hadn't given much thought to oil
on the belly or burnt oil caked all over the exhaust pipe. The vent in the
exhaust seems like an elegant solution.
Dave
RV-6
The need for (more)speed---->
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
>
> I have been watching this thread with some interest. I have a Ly-Con
engine
> in my -8, and also the 4-into-1 exhaust from Sky Dynamics, which was
> recommended by Ly-Con. The breather is plumbed into the middle of the
> exhaust collector, which causes a vacuum. I have heard about the HP
increase
> from NASCAR guys as well. Also, the prez of Sky Dynamics told me that the
> system (which has been in use for years now on Pitts, Eagles etc) helps
keep
> the engine compartment clean because seals leak less (e.g. valve cover
> gaskets etc). I have only a little exhaust soot on my belly. (actually,
the
> airplane's belly)
>
> I have been flying only 52 hours now, but have had no leakage problems. So
> far, I have managed to keep the filler cap on. With a normal breather
> system, if you leave the cap off, you still have a big mess, just all over
> the engine rather than on the belly (ask me how I know).
>
> Now, to start a new argument...it seems to be more and more agreed that
> returning the oil from the separator to the crankcase is a bad idea. We
are
> told to always fly long enough get the oil hot so the moisture will boil
> off. I have had quite a few people tell me that the air/oil sep will pick
up
> the water with the oil and if so plumbed, return it to the crankcase. Not
> good.
>
> The new approach is to just trap this oil in a small holding can, and
empty
> it at oil change. For a healthy engine, it will total less than a quart
per
> 50 hours or so. This can should have an overflow just in case.
>
> Or, use the Sky Dynamics exhaust, and burn the oil and the water in the
> exhaust. Or, use Van's system, and dribble the breather output onto the
> outside of the exhaust pipe.
>
> John Huft
> 52 hours, the eight is getting paint
> www.lazy8.net/rv8.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
>
> In discussing performance mods with Ly-Con a couple of years ago, they
said
> that on Sean Tucker's engine they port the crankcase vent (after the
> inverted oil system) to a low pressure point in the exhaust system. This
> did two things for them, reduced weight because on aerobatic airplanes the
> vent typically runs all the way back to the tail and that they picked up 5
> hp on the dyno from reducing crankcase pressure.
>
> I've tried to verify this from other sources because I was thinking about
> installing an Air Wolf oil/air separator which uses vacuum pump exhaust
> pressure to pressurize the system. Their claim is that the air from the
> vacuum pump helps spin the oil/air for better separation and theirs is the
> only one that will return the oil back to the engine while the engine is
> running.
>
> Dave
> RV-6
> The need for speed--->
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
> <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
> >
> > The venturi effect is exactly what happens if you create a venturi by
> > misinstalling the breather tube and by providing a source (such as a
loose
> > dipstick) so the venturi can draw air and oil through your engine.
> >
> > KB
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
Do you recall how many were C/S props?
Dave
RV-6
The need for (more)speed---->
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Marvel" <bmarvel@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
>
> Stein:
>
> This may make a lot of people in the experimental community unhappy with
me, but
> here goes.
>
> > Speaking of prop testing data, I have a similar (but different)
question. I
> > know this thread has been about C/S props, but mine is about the FP
> > Sensenich. Here's my question,
> >
> > Has anyone twinted these beyone 85"?????
> >
> > I ask because of my data:
> >
> > I have a 180hp AEIO-360/B4A Lyc swinging an 85" sensenich.
> > Static RPM 2250 - Full throttle up to 10.5K I can easily run to
2750-2800+
> > RPM.
>
> Having just looked through reams of RV accidents, both fatal and not, I
was
> surprised at the number involving broken prop blades. Personally, I would
call
> Sensenich and ask them. They know their product better than anyone and
know the
> implications of doing what you are thinking about. Some things are worth
> experimenting with, but I don't think pushing the limits in the area of
prop and
> engine compatibility is one of them.
>
> Bill Marvel
>
>
> Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
> P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
> San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
>
> One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Cool running |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Arthur, sounds like you have already solved most of the problem in terms of
evening out the temps a bit, but be aware you are testing during the winter.
Wait until you're on a cross country near gross weight and you stop for fuel
and an airport at 5,000' msl with the OAT 90 degrees or above. Then you want
to climb to 10k after refueling your already hot engine. At that time you'll
be glad your cooling system is working so well.
How are your oil temps?
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 295 hrs
EAA Technical Counselor
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
Subject: RV-List: Cool running
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
>
> Hi,
>
> Briefly the cylinder head temps on our RV-8 are running too cool and I am
> open to any ideas on how to increase them, has anyone had this problem
> before? If so what was your solution?
>
> We recently had the pleasure of the company of, Harry Fenton from Unison,
> Adrian McHardy (Asia-Pacific Rep) and Paul McBride from Lycoming. They
> unanimously agreed that we need to up our CHT's from the 290 to 300 degree
F
> range to 350 acceptable or 380 preferable.
>
> Suggestions so far have been holes in baffles to dump some of the HP air
or
> dams against the leading cylinders (Lycoming guys) and to reducing inlet
> area (Tom Green Van's).
>
> What we have-
>
> RV-8, HO-360-C1A converted with an updraft sump and airflow performance
> injection, sensenich metal propeller, oil cooler on baffel behind Nr. 4
> cylinder.
>
> Air inlets 3.5" high reducing to about 2.8" between the inlet ramp and the
> fibreglass flow smoother on the top cowl.
>
> CHT's in climb 90kts full power - 294, 316, 328, 292
> CHT's in cruies 3000' 23.5" 2700rpm about 160kts IAS leaned - 278, 308,
318,
> 283
>
> What I have done so far-
>
> 1) Dam against front of nr. 1 cylinder plus a speed bump (very aerodynamic
> about .75" high) at front of left inlet ramp.
>
> Effect-
>
> Climb 100kts full power - 343, 314, 323, 299
> Cruise - 322, 305, 305, 282
>
> So dam increased Nr 1 and deacreased Nr 3 with no overall increase in
temps.
> Speed bump had zero effect, air just wizzed right on trough as with a
> venturi.
>
> I have permanently installed a smaller dam agains the Nr 1 cylinder head.
>
> 2) Removed about 30 percent of the baffell rubber seal from back of
engine.
>
> Effect-
>
> Negligable rise in temps; all that effort putting that rubber seal on for
> what? :)
>
> 3) Bent some 32 thou alclad strips and pop riveted them to the very front
of
> the inlet ramps to form a 1.1" high dam across each ramp (who cares about
> smooth airflow!)
>
> Effect-
>
> Climb - 352, 340, 350, 322
> Cruise - 353, 352, 343, 307
>
>
> I have checked the calibration of the CHT guage (electronics internation)
by
> checking the readings on all probes early in the morning on the RV-8 and
our
> Cessna 206. All readings egt and cht on both aeroplanes were within 3 deg
F
> of others.
>
> Put CHT probes from 2 and 4 cylinders in a jug of boiling water, both read
> 204 deg f which I presume is about right for an elevation of 1350'.
>
> I have swapped the injectors on Nr's 2 and 4 cylinders to see if a faulty
> injector is causing the cylinder to run cooler than the others. Will fly
> tomorrow to check though a quick comparison of EGT's today did not point
to
> a fault.
>
> A knowledgable person suggested that the oil cooler on the baffle would
draw
> more air to the back increasing the cooling for the Nr. 4 cylinder.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arthur Whitehead
> Very cool RV-8 with about 8.5 hours air time.
>
>
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I'm considering mounting my bent-whip com antennae under one foot well
and my blade xpdr antennae under the other foot well. This will give
approximately 24" between the two. Is this enough distance between the
two? Has anyone else done this? What were your results?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 wires ...
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Tom,
That reminds me of something. A friend who is building a Murphy SR2500 said
that he was unable to insure his aircraft under construction. Does anyone
know if insurance is available for the airplane while it is in your garage
or workshop or hanger while it is uncompleted? Seemed odd to me at the time,
but now that I'm close to ordering, I'd like to hear from listers on this.
DOC
---- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
<rocket-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
>
> Guys,
>
> John Harmon of Harmon Rocket Fame and his wife stopped by Apple Valley
> Airport (APV) today for a couple of hours. I wish I had a better memory
but
> he stated that there was a hangar fire and three Harmon Rockets under
> construction were destoryed. I believe there were several RV involved
too.
>
> Sorry, I don't remember where and don't know any of the names, but my best
> wishes go out to all the owner-builders in the hangar.
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley CA
> Harmon Rocket N561FS - 104 Hours
> Flies GREAT.
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
No, Dave, I don't. However, I do not recall seeing any. You can download
synopses of all RV accidents from either EAA, FAA or NTSB, but I don't recall
which. It is a very educational read, since you see the same things happening
repeatedly. I was surprised that there were several in-flight breakups (mostly
-3s) and several -6A nose gear leg failures. I was saddened at how many losses
occurred due to running out of fuel and flying into deteriorating weather.
There seems to be no end to that until the last light airplane on the planet is
gone.
Bill Marvel
Dave von Linsowe wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
>
> Do you recall how many were C/S props?
>
> Dave
> RV-6
> The need for (more)speed---->
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Marvel" <bmarvel@cox.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted)
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
> >
> > Stein:
> >
> > This may make a lot of people in the experimental community unhappy with
> me, but
> > here goes.
> >
> > > Speaking of prop testing data, I have a similar (but different)
> question. I
> > > know this thread has been about C/S props, but mine is about the FP
> > > Sensenich. Here's my question,
> > >
> > > Has anyone twinted these beyone 85"?????
> > >
> > > I ask because of my data:
> > >
> > > I have a 180hp AEIO-360/B4A Lyc swinging an 85" sensenich.
> > > Static RPM 2250 - Full throttle up to 10.5K I can easily run to
> 2750-2800+
> > > RPM.
> >
> > Having just looked through reams of RV accidents, both fatal and not, I
> was
> > surprised at the number involving broken prop blades. Personally, I would
> call
> > Sensenich and ask them. They know their product better than anyone and
> know the
> > implications of doing what you are thinking about. Some things are worth
> > experimenting with, but I don't think pushing the limits in the area of
> prop and
> > engine compatibility is one of them.
> >
> > Bill Marvel
> >
> >
> > Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
> > P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
> > San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
> >
> > One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
> >
> >
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 24
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| Subject: | Oil on Belly and air/oil seps |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
It does burn completely, that is, there is no liquid oil on the belly. But,
I think there is more soot than usual. The fitting for the tube is -10, and
the pipe between the 4 exhaust pipes in the collector is about 5/8" ID. The
end of the breather pipe is about 3 inches from the end (inside) of the tail
pipe (collector).
For negative g aerobatics, you might loose more than could be burned. On the
other hand, I doubt it would ever freeze up. It does not drip on the hangar
floor like my 185.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
John,
How complete does the oil burn in the exhaust? Does the inside of the
exhaust pipes get caked up with carbon? How big is the orifice into the
exhaust, any chance of it getting carboned over? The 3/16" dia. smoke
injectors I had would need occasional cleaning.
I was taken back when I first saw the RV setup of dumping the vent on the
exhaust. After flying an airplane for many years that vented at the tail
wheel and had a polished exhaust system I hadn't given much thought to oil
on the belly or burnt oil caked all over the exhaust pipe. The vent in the
exhaust seems like an elegant solution.
Dave
RV-6
The need for (more)speed---->
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil on Belly and air/oil seps
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
>
> I have been watching this thread with some interest. I have a Ly-Con
engine
> in my -8, and also the 4-into-1 exhaust from Sky Dynamics, which was
> recommended by Ly-Con. The breather is plumbed into the middle of the
> exhaust collector, which causes a vacuum. I have heard about the HP
increase
> from NASCAR guys as well. Also, the prez of Sky Dynamics told me that the
> system (which has been in use for years now on Pitts, Eagles etc) helps
keep
> the engine compartment clean because seals leak less (e.g. valve cover
> gaskets etc). I have only a little exhaust soot on my belly. (actually,
the
> airplane's belly)
>
> I have been flying only 52 hours now, but have had no leakage problems. So
> far, I have managed to keep the filler cap on. With a normal breather
> system, if you leave the cap off, you still have a big mess, just all over
> the engine rather than on the belly (ask me how I know).
>
> Now, to start a new argument...it seems to be more and more agreed that
> returning the oil from the separator to the crankcase is a bad idea. We
are
> told to always fly long enough get the oil hot so the moisture will boil
> off. I have had quite a few people tell me that the air/oil sep will pick
up
> the water with the oil and if so plumbed, return it to the crankcase. Not
> good.
>
> The new approach is to just trap this oil in a small holding can, and
empty
> it at oil change. For a healthy engine, it will total less than a quart
per
> 50 hours or so. This can should have an overflow just in case.
>
> Or, use the Sky Dynamics exhaust, and burn the oil and the water in the
> exhaust. Or, use Van's system, and dribble the breather output onto the
> outside of the exhaust pipe.
>
> John Huft
> 52 hours, the eight is getting paint
> www.lazy8.net/rv8.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave von Linsowe
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
>
> In discussing performance mods with Ly-Con a couple of years ago, they
said
> that on Sean Tucker's engine they port the crankcase vent (after the
> inverted oil system) to a low pressure point in the exhaust system. This
> did two things for them, reduced weight because on aerobatic airplanes the
> vent typically runs all the way back to the tail and that they picked up 5
> hp on the dyno from reducing crankcase pressure.
>
> I've tried to verify this from other sources because I was thinking about
> installing an Air Wolf oil/air separator which uses vacuum pump exhaust
> pressure to pressurize the system. Their claim is that the air from the
> vacuum pump helps spin the oil/air for better separation and theirs is the
> only one that will return the oil back to the engine while the engine is
> running.
>
> Dave
> RV-6
> The need for speed--->
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on Belly
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
> <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
> >
> > The venturi effect is exactly what happens if you create a venturi by
> > misinstalling the breather tube and by providing a source (such as a
loose
> > dipstick) so the venturi can draw air and oil through your engine.
> >
> > KB
>
>
Message 25
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
I think Arthur has summer right now in NZ.
Alex P.
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
>
> Arthur, sounds like you have already solved most of the
> problem in terms of evening out the temps a bit, but be aware
> you are testing during the winter. Wait until you're on a
> cross country near gross weight and you stop for fuel and an
> airport at 5,000' msl with the OAT 90 degrees or above. Then
> you want to climb to 10k after refueling your already hot
> engine. At that time you'll be glad your cooling system is
> working so well.
>
> How are your oil temps?
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, 295 hrs
> EAA Technical Counselor
> www.rv-8.com
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
Try AVEMCO.
I have a construction policy with them. Seems to be a "standard" offering
from them.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dr. Leathers
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:18 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hangar Fire
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> Tom,
>
> That reminds me of something. A friend who is building a Murphy
> SR2500 said
> that he was unable to insure his aircraft under construction. Does anyone
> know if insurance is available for the airplane while it is in your garage
> or workshop or hanger while it is uncompleted? Seemed odd to me
> at the time,
> but now that I'm close to ordering, I'd like to hear from listers on this.
>
> DOC
>
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> To: "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>; "Rocket List"
> <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Hangar Fire
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > John Harmon of Harmon Rocket Fame and his wife stopped by Apple Valley
> > Airport (APV) today for a couple of hours. I wish I had a better memory
> but
> > he stated that there was a hangar fire and three Harmon Rockets under
> > construction were destoryed. I believe there were several RV involved
> too.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't remember where and don't know any of the names,
> but my best
> > wishes go out to all the owner-builders in the hangar.
> >
> > Tom Gummo
> > Apple Valley CA
> > Harmon Rocket N561FS - 104 Hours
> > Flies GREAT.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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--> RV-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Falcon has mine as non-flying, no liability, very economical
Hal
theplanefolks.com
"Dr. Leathers" wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> Tom,
>
> That reminds me of something. A friend who is building a Murphy SR2500 said
> that he was unable to insure his aircraft under construction. Does anyone
> know if insurance is available for the airplane while it is in your garage
> or workshop or hanger while it is uncompleted? Seemed odd to me at the time,
> but now that I'm close to ordering, I'd like to hear from listers on this.
>
> DOC
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> To: "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>; "Rocket List"
> <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Hangar Fire
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > John Harmon of Harmon Rocket Fame and his wife stopped by Apple Valley
> > Airport (APV) today for a couple of hours. I wish I had a better memory
> but
> > he stated that there was a hangar fire and three Harmon Rockets under
> > construction were destoryed. I believe there were several RV involved
> too.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't remember where and don't know any of the names, but my best
> > wishes go out to all the owner-builders in the hangar.
> >
> > Tom Gummo
> > Apple Valley CA
> > Harmon Rocket N561FS - 104 Hours
> > Flies GREAT.
> >
> >
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Fw: Adequate Carb Heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
I am reposting this in connection with the recent discussion. This has worked well
for me for over ten years. I have Larry's exhaust system on the 6A and it
has the same crossover design so expect it to work the same way.
I have one of the small heat muffs for cabin heat and if full heat is applied it
produces cooler air than if set say at half, this is telling me that the small
muff does not have the capacity to heat the air at the high volumes produced
by the high airspeeds of the RV.
While I don't have any actual numbers for the rise in intake temperatures when
alternate air is selected I am sure it is giving adequate heat considering the
unrestricted flow from the two exhaust pipes running at hundreds of degrees located
only inches above the alternate air opening. In the tests I did in actual
icing conditions when carb ice was indicated by a drop in manifold pressure
it was quickly cleared with the selection of alternate air.
Running with alternate air selected only causes a small loss in performance so
used it when ever conditions were marginal with the carb. With fuel injection
the only time I use it is when passing through a local snow condition. Selecting
alternate air before entering snow seems to be the answer. With a good fitting
alternate air door and a unrestricted flow of air from inside the cowling
I don't see how it would be possible to ice up the filter. The air is preheated
by the cylinders and then by the exhaust pipes it would have to be well above
freezing entering the air box. It is my feeling that little if any snow passes
into the air box when alternate air is selected.
Don't believe this would work without the crossover system or if power was reduced
below a level that would not produce enough heat, however this also applies
to a dedicated carb heat system.
Here again safety should be the top priority and I am not recommending doing away
with a dedicated carb heat system or a means of bypassing the filter. My experience
is with this particular installation and would not apply to many.
Van's filtered air box is the best system I have seen, it assures absolute clean
air to the engine with the highest manifold pressures and hope that any changes
will not take away from this.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Eustace Bowhay
Subject: Adequate Carb Heat
All carburated engines that I have flown make carb ice given the right conditions
including my 0360 in my RV6 prior to converting to fuel injection. When I built
it in 90-92 carb heat was a concern because of the available heat from the
small heat muffs available.
My exhaust system is Allen Tolle's cross-over very similar to Larry's system. When
I installed the fillterd air box it was obvious that the alternate air source
was in an ideal location to capture a good deal of heated air from the two
exhaust pipes running over the opening for the alternate air. I decided to do
some testing without any dedicated carb heat.
I found that my engine was not prone to carb ice, I believe because of the good
design of the Lycoming transferring heat from the sump to the carb. However under
severe icing conditions it definitely would make carb ice with a drop in
manifold pressure of around one inch in five minutes. This was easily cleared
with the use of the alternate air only.
On one test, flying two and a half hours in marginal VFR with the temp just at
freezing and picking up some occasional airframe ice the carb ice would form at
the rate I mentioned . As expected the longer the time between the application
of alternate air the longer it took to clear it, the secret seamed to be clearing
it as soon as you lost an inch of manifold pressure . Another concern was
icing up the filter so flew it with the alternate air on continuously and that
was the end of the carb ice.
I flew with the carb for five and a half years and a fair bit of it was in cold
conditions, some above the arctic circle and in less than ideal conditions and
never ever was in a situation that the alternate air was not adequate.
I am not recommending that this is the route to go, just relating my experience.
The 6A just finishing up is also fuel injected so carb ice is no longer a concern.
As Jerry mentioned I can see carb ice not being a concern with a combination
of the Lycoming design plus the location and design of Van's filtered air
box. I am sure that the cross-over exhaust has a lot to do with it.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
Eustace
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Adequate Carb Heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Eustace Bowhay wrote:
>
> From: Eustace Bowhay
> To: rv list
> Subject: Adequate Carb Heat
>
>
> All carburated engines that I have flown make carb ice given the right conditions
including my 0360 in my RV6 prior to converting to fuel injection. When I
built it in 90-92 carb heat was a concern because of the available heat from
the small heat muffs available.
>
> My exhaust system is Allen Tolle's cross-over very similar to Larry's system.
When I installed the fillterd air box it was obvious that the alternate air source
was in an ideal location to capture a good deal of heated air from the two
exhaust pipes running over the opening for the alternate air. I decided to
do some testing without any dedicated carb heat.
>
> I found that my engine was not prone to carb ice, I believe because of the good
design of the Lycoming transferring heat from the sump to the carb. However
under severe icing conditions it definitely would make carb ice with a drop in
manifold pressure of around one inch in five minutes. This was easily cleared
with the use of the alternate air only.
>
> On one test, flying two and a half hours in marginal VFR with the temp just at
freezing and picking up some occasional airframe ice the carb ice would form
at the rate I mentioned . As expected the longer the time between the application
of alternate air the longer it took to clear it, the secret seamed to be
clearing it as soon as you lost an inch of manifold pressure . Another concern
was icing up the filter so flew it with the alternate air on continuously and
that was the end of the carb ice.
>
> I flew with the carb for five and a half years and a fair bit of it was in cold
conditions, some above the arctic circle and in less than ideal conditions
and never ever was in a situation that the alternate air was not adequate.
>
> I am not recommending that this is the route to go, just relating my experience.
The 6A just finishing up is also fuel injected so carb ice is no longer a
concern. As Jerry mentioned I can see carb ice not being a concern with a combination
of the Lycoming design plus the location and design of Van's filtered
air box. I am sure that the cross-over exhaust has a lot to do with it.
>
> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
>
> Eustace
>
>
Eustace that is the exact same system I have been using for 14 years
with the same result you are seeing. Like you I don't recommend this for
anyone except me. It does show that with proper alternate/carb heat door
and a crossover system there is plenty of heat in the cowling with
proper operating procedures. Some have expressed concern that maybe the
engine would get to cold at low power settings in the pattern and not
pick up enough heat from the exhaust/cowling. Unless you are doing
lOOOONNGG power off glides there is still plenty of heat. But
If you think about it the same thing applies with a standerd carb heat
setup in a long glide. The secret is power management and planning.
Jerry
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Ant. distance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I'm considering mounting my bent-whip com antennae under one foot well
>and my blade xpdr antennae under the other foot well. This will give
>approximately 24" between the two. Is this enough distance between the
>two? Has anyone else done this? What were your results?
>
>Thanks,
That's where my antennae reside. Works fine.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
I've been very pleased with Nation Air's builder's risk policy. Ask for J.T.
at 636-532-0023.
Steve Struyk
RV-8 N842S (res.)
St. Charles, MO
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
>
> Try AVEMCO.
>
> I have a construction policy with them. Seems to be a "standard" offering
> from them.
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dr. Leathers
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:18 AM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > That reminds me of something. A friend who is building a Murphy
> > SR2500 said
> > that he was unable to insure his aircraft under construction. Does
anyone
> > know if insurance is available for the airplane while it is in your
garage
> > or workshop or hanger while it is uncompleted? Seemed odd to me
> > at the time,
> > but now that I'm close to ordering, I'd like to hear from listers on
this.
> >
> > DOC
> >
> >
> > ---- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> > To: "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>; "Rocket List"
> > <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> > >
> > > Guys,
> > >
> > > John Harmon of Harmon Rocket Fame and his wife stopped by Apple Valley
> > > Airport (APV) today for a couple of hours. I wish I had a better
memory
> > but
> > > he stated that there was a hangar fire and three Harmon Rockets under
> > > construction were destoryed. I believe there were several RV involved
> > too.
> > >
> > > Sorry, I don't remember where and don't know any of the names,
> > but my best
> > > wishes go out to all the owner-builders in the hangar.
> > >
> > > Tom Gummo
> > > Apple Valley CA
> > > Harmon Rocket N561FS - 104 Hours
> > > Flies GREAT.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Skybolt Cowl Attachment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
List, I am about to install the cowling on my RV6-A using the "Skybolt Fastener
System" and was wondering if anyone has a pictorial of their installation on
the Web?
I also want to thank Ned Bowers for posting a message last month about
"Skybolt's Fun-N-Sun Special Pricing"! I contacted Pete Lorenzo, A&P at Skybolt
and he was very helpful and knowledgeable about the product.
Thanks, Tom in Ohio
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
The reason the instructions say not to spray it on is not because it can't
be done. The reason rolling is the preferred method is the pressure applied
forces the material into the pinholes instead of simply layering over which
can reduce it's effectivness. I've tried both ways in my forums. You may
come out OK in that you rolled the first layer on. Not looking at my notes
but several thin layers work better than one thick application.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
>From: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant@sw.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Re: UV Smoothprime- What is Crosslink
>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:09:21 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant@sw.rr.com>
>
>I'm sending this back to the list so it can be in the archives. You
>never know - there may be somebody else out there with the same
>question.
>For what its worth, I did one layer with a roller, sanded it off, then
>sprayed on a few more layers. I have yet to sand off the sprayed-on
>layers, but for me, both methods seemed to work fine. I sure like
>working with water instead of acetone/MEK/etc. though!
>
>Thanks for the help,
>-Jordan
>
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
NationAir (J. T. Helms at 636-532-0023) sells builders insurance. Others may
also.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Skybolt Cowl Attachment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "fgoggio" <fgoggio@nc.rr.com>
tom,i am using the skybolt fastners on my 6a cowling, i like them so far as
being able to adjust the size of them to the dept of the glass,no guess work
as to the sizing,and the cowling seems to be tight once in place, no
movement once in place,if you want i can take digital pictures of it and
email to you
frank goggio 6A fayetteville NC----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Subject: RV-List: Skybolt Cowl Attachment
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>
> List, I am about to install the cowling on my RV6-A using the "Skybolt
Fastener System" and was wondering if anyone has a pictorial of their
installation on the Web?
> I also want to thank Ned Bowers for posting a message last month
about "Skybolt's Fun-N-Sun Special Pricing"! I contacted Pete Lorenzo, A&P
at Skybolt and he was very helpful and knowledgeable about the product.
>
Thanks, Tom in Ohio
>
>
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" <karie4@attbi.com>
I just purchased the Nation Air builders risk policy before hauling my 7A QB
to Seattle from Vans. 350.00 bucks seems reasonable for a policy that covers
everything including transport and $15.00 an hour for the work that you have
done and lost due to any accident.
Karie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
>
> I've been very pleased with Nation Air's builder's risk policy. Ask for
J.T.
> at 636-532-0023.
>
> Steve Struyk
> RV-8 N842S (res.)
> St. Charles, MO
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Hangar Fire
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <jclark@conterra.com>
> >
> > Try AVEMCO.
> >
> > I have a construction policy with them. Seems to be a "standard"
offering
> > from them.
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dr. Leathers
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:18 AM
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > That reminds me of something. A friend who is building a Murphy
> > > SR2500 said
> > > that he was unable to insure his aircraft under construction. Does
> anyone
> > > know if insurance is available for the airplane while it is in your
> garage
> > > or workshop or hanger while it is uncompleted? Seemed odd to me
> > > at the time,
> > > but now that I'm close to ordering, I'd like to hear from listers on
> this.
> > >
> > > DOC
> > >
> > >
> > > ---- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > To: "RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>; "Rocket List"
> > > <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV-List: Hangar Fire
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > >
> > > > Guys,
> > > >
> > > > John Harmon of Harmon Rocket Fame and his wife stopped by Apple
Valley
> > > > Airport (APV) today for a couple of hours. I wish I had a better
> memory
> > > but
> > > > he stated that there was a hangar fire and three Harmon Rockets
under
> > > > construction were destoryed. I believe there were several RV
involved
> > > too.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I don't remember where and don't know any of the names,
> > > but my best
> > > > wishes go out to all the owner-builders in the hangar.
> > > >
> > > > Tom Gummo
> > > > Apple Valley CA
> > > > Harmon Rocket N561FS - 104 Hours
> > > > Flies GREAT.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 37
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--> RV-List message posted by: Todd Rudberg <todd_rudberg@yahoo.com>
Guys,
I am currently working in the UK and planning my next
assault on my airplane upon my return to the states.
I am fighting on three fronts and the war is going
well. However, I don't yet have a very good plan for
getting wires from the fuse to the lower rudder
fairing. I am installing a strobe/tail light there.
I would be very interested in seeing some
installations...especially if you are particularly
happy with the way you did it.
Thanks,
Todd.
Cowl, Canopy and Paint to go (oh yeah and those wires
to the tail strobe).
www.acubedllc.com
todd@acubedllc.com
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Cool running |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Howdy list- this is kind of long, but I'm looking for "well-informed opinion" -
any
of that around here? 8-)
In looking into various designs for constructing a plenum, I theorize that one
reason
for higher rear cylinder temps may be due to the much slower air velocity around
them. I suspect this because on most plenums I have seen, mostly fabricated from
Vans standard baffle kit, the high rear wall of the plenum (which would also apply
to
the stock baffle/seal design) allows a much larger volume of air above the rear
cylinders. Since the air entering the inlets is distributed down through the fins,
reducing the total air volume as the inlet air moves rearward, and because the
plenum
gets much larger in cross section from its narrowest point (after the inlet) directly
above #s 1 & 3, the air velocity must decelerate a tremendous amount by the time
it
reaches #s 2 & 4. I also suspect a large amount of wasted energy in turbulence
as
the air may be "stagnant" in the upper rear part of the chamber, causing the air
in
this area to swirl around a lot looking for an exit. Take a look at the following,
please:
On Randy Lervolds excellent site, the photos of Dick Martins plenum show the it
tightly fitted around the rear cylinders, and the Sam James cowl Randy beat into
submission is also fairly low at the rear. see:
http://www.rv-8.com/Cowl.htm
The same is true for the plenum on Jim Normans gorgeous plane- see:
http://www.steinair.com/jn/index.htm
I have also noticed on the standard Jabiru installation for the 4 and 6 cyl. engines
that the basic "baffling" is a simple fiberglas scoop on each side over the
cylinders, large at the front and narrowing toward the rear, with additional
intercylinder baffling. This raises the question of whether the Lycoming would
be
adequately or even more efficiently cooled by employing a separate plenum for each
side only extending from the cylinder base to the top of the heads, reducing stagnant
airflow around the top of the crankcase. I know this would be more trouble to
construct, but might this be more efficient? Does this area of the crankcase benefit
from a supply of cooling air?
Would any of you aerodynamicist or fluid dynamicist types out there care to shed
some
light on this? Just attempting to understand the physics here before diving in....
Thanks folks- we'll " do not archive " this too-long post unless some interesting
comes of it!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Brakes Sticking?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dan DeNeal wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
>
> The first comment you made about quite taxiing and
> start flying is something I can't wait to do. However,
> I am waiting for my final inspection and one thing in
> the paperwork said they wanted 1 hour of taxiing time
> before coming out to inspect. And, all this taxiing
> has allowed me to get a better feel for this airplane.
> I have discovered a mag problem and a broken vacuum
> pump, not to mention the brakes. Discovering all this
> on the ground sure makes me glad I'm still on the
> ground. :
> )
The DAR is requiring one hour of taxi time before inspection?
Unbelievable.
One hour of taxi time could be enough to guarantee that the rings in a
new or freshly overhauled engine would NEVER seat properly. It could
also be enough time to overheat a new, tight engine.
Builders, if your DAR tries to force this restriction on
you...........find another DAR!
Sam Buchanan
Message 40
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| Subject: | Carb Cleaner as pre-prime cleaner? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
I was preparing some internal parts for priming, and it hit me that carb cleaner
would make an excellent cleaner/degreaser of the parts due to:
* It's made for Alum. carbs
* Most come in high pressue spray cans (blows the stuff out of the holes)
* Cheap
* Extremely powerful cleaner
* Evaporates quickly
Anyone think of any reason not to? I did not see any mention of such use in the
archives. It is important to note that your skin will feel like it is melting
if sprayed with the stuff, so definitely use gloves.
Thanks,
Scott
7A Emp
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder wiring. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Todd;
No really neat or easy answers here. On a -6A type tail there is the tiedown
fitting to deal with and on a -6 type tail there is the aft tailwheel spring
mount to consider when locating a hole into the fuselage.
I initially went out the front end of the fiberglass with a wire pair (+12v
and gnd.) but this interfered with the tail tiedown fitting even after
grinding a fair bit of it off. Changed that to go forward but over top of
the fiberglass passing close to the lower rudder hinge then down the back of
the rudder spar with a cable clamp and forward through a hole low and
outside of the rudder spar. (I have a -6A.) I ran the wires a few feet
forward and made my splice arrangements there to gain some extra room to
work. I pull the tail fairing and reach down through the holes in the tail
deck - tight but easier than through the elevator bolt access hole.
Good luck!
Jim Oke
RV-6A (at the hangar - final details)
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Rudberg" <todd_rudberg@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Rudder wiring.
> --> RV-List message posted by: Todd Rudberg <todd_rudberg@yahoo.com>
>
> Guys,
>
> I am currently working in the UK and planning my next
> assault on my airplane upon my return to the states.
> I am fighting on three fronts and the war is going
> well. However, I don't yet have a very good plan for
> getting wires from the fuse to the lower rudder
> fairing. I am installing a strobe/tail light there.
> I would be very interested in seeing some
> installations...especially if you are particularly
> happy with the way you did it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd.
> Cowl, Canopy and Paint to go (oh yeah and those wires
> to the tail strobe).
> www.acubedllc.com
> todd@acubedllc.com
>
>
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
Message 42
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't know,
but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
Jerry Cochran
RV6a/FWF
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: interior paint woes |
--> RV-List message posted by: perfeng@3rivers.net
Okay Dan,
First, I know this is late in coming but, I've been really busy and away from
the shop for a few weeks...
Anyway, your problem with dust and particulate matter is somewhat a fact of
life. Air is dirty! You will always get some size and amount of dirt even in a
$500K paint booth.
To help reduce this try doing your final wipe down with cotton or non- static
paper towels. The static charge draws dust.
As for your sanding, 1500 to 2000 is great. Now all you need to do is buff it
back to a beautiful shine. Don't use a "Rubbing Compound" as it is too
abrasive. There are compounds and polishes specifically made for clear-coats
and urethanes.
Your spots sound like "blushes" form the way you describe them. Meaning your
probably using to "hot" a reducer. Try to stay well under the uppper temp
limit of the reducer. In other words don't use a medium reducer (65-75) when
it's 72 degrees and expect to get perfect results without having lots of
experience with the product.
As for your shooting things on the table, we always try to hang parts and
components when we can. If the parts are small we've even gone to using
tweezers to hold them (what ever works)
Hope this helps
Jim Duckett N708JD
Quoting Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com>:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> I've scoured the archives in search of tips and information, but I'm still
> coming up short.
>
> After screwing around with Cardinal air-dry acrylic enamel spray cans, and
> being very unhappy with its durability and its tendency to splatter dark
> drops on the piece, I switched to Sherwin Williams single-stage Dimension
> 3.5 urethane enamel. I'm using the reducer and hardener that my local auto
> paint shop sold me, and I'm mixing it 5:1:1 as the instructions say to do.
>
> I'm having a couple of problems:
>
> 1) Dust, dust, and more dust. I'm painting the parts on table tops on top
> of masking paper, so maybe that's the problem right there...but I've got
> plastic up all around my garage and I tried wetting the floor down and
> everything, yet I still get dust particles in there like crazy. Is there
> any way to fix/buff/sand that out after the fact? I've got 1000 and 2000
> grit wet/dry sand paper, but even the 2000 grit takes the gloss right off.
> What to do? Do most people hang parts to paint them? How do you stabilize
> small lightweight parts? I've seen people hang wires beneath the part to
> grab, but I don't think that will stabilize this stuff well enough (little
> cover panels, etc.).
>
> 2) Color bleed. Bleed is probably the wrong term. I'm using a light gray,
> and in several spots on almost all of the pieces, the color comes out
> lighter in splotches. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how much
> paint I'm putting on, because even on subsequent coats (20-30 minutes later)
> the lighter splotches bleed right through. The gloss is totally consistent,
> it's just the color that's off in these spots. It's totally unpredictable
> in that light splotches pop up in random spots. Could this have something
> to do with temperature or moisture or the wrong reducer? I have an inline
> moisture filter at the regulator and another one at the gun (and yes, it's a
> clean, non-oiled hose). Could this have anything to do with the type of
> gloves I'm wearing and handling the parts with? The spots don't seem to
> coincide with handling, but I'm not ruling that out.
>
> For what it's worth, I'm spraying with a touch-up sprayer from Harbor
> Freight. Please don't tell me to spend lots of money on an HVLP sprayer...I
> know there are people out there who have successfully painted their
> interiors with cheap touch-up guns... I'm generally happy with the gloss
> and finish (other than the dust), it's just the color thing that's plaguing
> me right now.
>
> I'm very happy with the durability and finish that this Dimension paint
> seems to have...it's just these little pesky problems that are dragging me
> down right now. Any advice is much appreciated!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage/finish)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Brakes Sticking?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
It's not from the DAR it is in the paperwork from the
FEDS!!!
The comes from the "PROGRAM LETTER" which accompanys
the paperwork for final inspection.
"The powerplant installation has undergone at least
one hour of ground operation at various speeds from
idle to full power to determine and insure that all
systems are operating properly."
Sorry, but I did not write the rules.
Lycoming also recommends using different power
settings on the ground before flight. If you would
like I can send this Lyc. sheet to you.
Dan
--- Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan
> <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>
> Dan DeNeal wrote:
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal
> <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
> >
> > The first comment you made about quite taxiing and
> > start flying is something I can't wait to do.
> However,
> > I am waiting for my final inspection and one thing
> in
> > the paperwork said they wanted 1 hour of taxiing
> time
> > before coming out to inspect. And, all this
> taxiing
> > has allowed me to get a better feel for this
> airplane.
> > I have discovered a mag problem and a broken
> vacuum
> > pump, not to mention the brakes. Discovering all
> this
> > on the ground sure makes me glad I'm still on the
> > ground. :
> > )
>
>
> The DAR is requiring one hour of taxi time before
> inspection?
>
> Unbelievable.
>
> One hour of taxi time could be enough to guarantee
> that the rings in a
> new or freshly overhauled engine would NEVER seat
> properly. It could
> also be enough time to overheat a new, tight engine.
>
> Builders, if your DAR tries to force this
> restriction on
> you...........find another DAR!
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 45
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I recently did this on my RV-8. I penetrated the last bulkhead at the
very bottom, about 8 o'clock. This missed the VS spar -- as recommened
by Van's tech support. I've covered the wires with flex-sleeve, and
sprial wrap in the vicinity of the hole. In the near future, I'll be
drilling a hole in the ridder bottom cap big enough to pass the
connector though should the rudder ever have to come off. A rubber
grommet will close that hole to the size of the wires.
Feedback?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Rudberg
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 2:13 PM
> To: RVList
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder wiring.
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Todd Rudberg <todd_rudberg@yahoo.com>
>
> Guys,
>
> I am currently working in the UK and planning my next
> assault on my airplane upon my return to the states.
> I am fighting on three fronts and the war is going
> well. However, I don't yet have a very good plan for
> getting wires from the fuse to the lower rudder
> fairing. I am installing a strobe/tail light there.
> I would be very interested in seeing some
> installations...especially if you are particularly happy with
> the way you did it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd.
> Cowl, Canopy and Paint to go (oh yeah and those wires
> to the tail strobe).
> www.acubedllc.com
> todd@acubedllc.com
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | RV-List:: Adequate Carb Heat/Prop Pitching |
--> RV-List message posted by: JRWillJR@aol.com
A few months ago a tragic end came to a RV lister who crashed on a dock in
Tampa. Remember that it was agreed by most that it was better to tell people
what they are doing is stupid than to allow them to die in ignorance even if
it meant loosing a friend, at least they would be alive. OK, so here we are
with the eyeball and heat thread and now this repitching beyond limits thread
and a couple of strong but well intentioned statements from one fellow about
flying VFR in marginal weather and at night----and--the usual condemnation of
the persons voicing the strong, educated opinions. Isn't this what they
should do--supply an alternate view, a warning?
Before flaming these fellows remember the tragedy in Tampa and other such
totally avoidable circumstances such as a friend of mine who flew into a box
canyon in Az and crashed after having been warned, but not adequately, of
such things. OK,
1. Not having an alternate air source could result in an off airport landing.
2. Flying VFR day or night into marginal weather or other than local night
VFR under good conditions could be a dumb thing to do and fatal
--example--Kennedy.
Do Not Archive. JR
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Davis" <rvpilot@695online.com>
Stein,
Why not ask Sensenich??
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Speaking of prop testing data, I have a similar (but different) question.
I
> know this thread has been about C/S props, but mine is about the FP
> Sensenich. Here's my question,
>
> Has anyone twinted these beyone 85"?????
>
> I ask because of my data:
>
> I have a 180hp AEIO-360/B4A Lyc swinging an 85" sensenich.
> Static RPM 2250 - Full throttle up to 10.5K I can easily run to 2750-2800+
> RPM.
> I have a solid (aerobatic) crank, so I can't use a C/S, but I'm wondering
if
> I can put in a couple more inches of twist without harming the prop.
>
> #1) Is this wise?
> #2) Would I lose too much static RPM to offset the top end gain?
>
> Basically I'm just looking for a way to utilize some more hp at slower
> RPM's. I don't cruise around at 2750-2800RPM, usually around 2500. My
> engine is used, came off a Pitts, and I suspect it may be putting out a
bit
> more HP than I originally thought. The logs are a bit vague about what
was
> done at the last OH (600hrs ago), so I don't know if it's stock or not, I
> just know it runs like a banshee!
>
> Thanks in advance for any tips,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6, Minneapolis.
>
> Oh, and YES the C/S guys can out-climb me, but I keep up just fine (or
> better) on the top end.
>
>
Message 48
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
I got the same feeling it was to smoothly written. I knew I was not
going to respond to it.
Jerry
do not archive
Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't know,
> but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
>
> Jerry Cochran
> RV6a/FWF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 49
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--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Larry,
An ELT is actually about the same as a small com radio with no receiver.
The problem is that you have a com antenna that is surrounded by metal
and under the very best conditions it's unlikely that you'd have any
kind of a decent signal. If you installed your communications antenna in
that location you probably wouldn't be able to communicate over anything
but a very short distance and the ELT transmitter has only a little over
one tenth the power of your com radio (about 150 mw for the Ameriking).
The same spacing rules for com antennas apply equally to ELT antennas.
Dave, RV6, So.Cal
EAA Tech Counselor
From Larry Bowen <larry@bowenaero.com> ***********
Please elaborate. I recently mounted my ELT and its antennae under
the VS and the emp. fairing. What's the problem?
-Larry, RV-8 wires.
Message 50
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| Subject: | was, Brakes Sticking??; now, engine test runs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Thanks for the reply, Dan.
It appears that things have gotten a little muddled. You stated in your
initial post "they wanted 1 hour of taxiing time before coming out to
inspect".
What Lycoming is suggesting for engine break-in IS NOT taxiing! I have
not seen Lyc's sheet (I suspect it is similar to Continental's which I
have used) but I bet it is for a sequence of engine runs at various
increasing rpms with cool-down between runs. The high power settings and
cool-downs are to enable new rings, cylinders and pistons to seat
without overheating the engine.
Here is a link on Lycoming's site on their recommendations for test runs
for a new or rebuilt engine:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/support/publications/keyReprints/maintenance/reciprocatingEngine.html
(You may need to paste the URL into one line)
Having said that, a lot of A&Ps and other knowledgeable engine people
will strongly suggest that all engine break-in occur during flight with
the absolute minimum ground run that is necessary to make sure there are
no oil leaks and to get the plane to the runway. I don't think you will
find any engine people who will recommend an hour of taxiing around at
low power settings. Matter of fact, to subject even a broken-in engine
to extended taxi is to invite problems.
Dan, you did not indicate whether or not your engine is new, freshly
overhauled, or used. If it is an engine with hours already on it, you
don't have to worry about seating the rings, but there are other reasons
not to conduct extended taxi operations. Obviously, a used engine will
not fall under the recommendations by Lycoming in their service letters
for break-in procedures.
The letter you referenced from the FAA is news to me, so I would really
like to see a copy of it for my education. However, the quote you
provided is NOT recommending one hour of taxiing, but rather a procedure
closer to what Lycoming recommends.
But, if it was MY new engine, and the DAR asked if it had been ground
tested for an hour, my answer would be that I had complied with all
recommendations per the engine manufacturer, and if he had a problem
with that answer, ask the DAR to take up the issue of ground-running
with Lycoming. ;-)
Best wishes for a great inspection and test phase,
Sam Buchanan
=========================================
Dan DeNeal wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
>
> It's not from the DAR it is in the paperwork from the
> FEDS!!!
>
> The comes from the "PROGRAM LETTER" which accompanys
> the paperwork for final inspection.
>
> "The powerplant installation has undergone at least
> one hour of ground operation at various speeds from
> idle to full power to determine and insure that all
> systems are operating properly."
>
> Sorry, but I did not write the rules.
>
> Lycoming also recommends using different power
> settings on the ground before flight. If you would
> like I can send this Lyc. sheet to you.
>
> Dan
>
> --- Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan
> > <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> >
> >
> > Dan DeNeal wrote:
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal
> > <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > The first comment you made about quite taxiing and
> > > start flying is something I can't wait to do.
> > However,
> > > I am waiting for my final inspection and one thing
> > in
> > > the paperwork said they wanted 1 hour of taxiing
> > time
> > > before coming out to inspect. And, all this
> > taxiing
> > > has allowed me to get a better feel for this
> > airplane.
> > > I have discovered a mag problem and a broken
> > vacuum
> > > pump, not to mention the brakes. Discovering all
> > this
> > > on the ground sure makes me glad I'm still on the
> > > ground. :
> > > )
> >
> >
> > The DAR is requiring one hour of taxi time before
> > inspection?
> >
> > Unbelievable.
> >
> > One hour of taxi time could be enough to guarantee
> > that the rings in a
> > new or freshly overhauled engine would NEVER seat
> > properly. It could
> > also be enough time to overheat a new, tight engine.
> >
> > Builders, if your DAR tries to force this
> > restriction on
> > you...........find another DAR!
> >
> > Sam Buchanan
> >
> >
Message 51
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Daniel A. Storer" <storerda@cox.net>
Yes my survey is very legitimate, its all about RV safety. My questions
were simple and to the point the first time around, but after my GRP
committee (a bunch of PhD's) reviewed them a mutation occurred. Both the
EAA and Van's have reviewed my study and gave me insight for the survey .
Thanks for your input.
Dan Storer
Oklahoma City
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: "Survey"
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't know,
> but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
>
> Jerry Cochran
> RV6a/FWF
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Prop testing data posted |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
>At 9:59 AM -0800 22/2/03, you wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
>>
>>> How do you account for the 10 degree OAT difference in the
>>> cruise table?
>>
>>
>>Good question, I don't know how to mathematically compensate for it. Van saw
>>my data and said that he thought it wouldn't make that much difference, and
>>that when taken in context with the rest of the tests he thought it was
>>probably an accurate reflection. Of course there's always a +/- tolerance
>>involved, none of this testing is perfect.
>>
>>Randy Lervold
>
>Randy,
>
>I took a look at your comparative data, and offer the following rough
>corrections for the differences in temperature and weight between the
>different configurations:
>
>Climb data - the mid-altitude for your climbs was 3500 ft. The
>Lycoming power chart suggests the full throttle MP would be about
>25.5", and the power would be about 166 hp for both sets of tests.
>The RV-6A CAFE report suggests about 138 lb of drag for an RV-6A at
>1650 lb. Assuming that drag varies linearly with weight, that gives
>a drag of about 143 lb at 1704 lb. The RV-8 should be a tiny bit
>cleaner than the RV-6A, so I'll assume 142 lb of drag for the tests
>with the Hartzell. 120 mph CAS at 3500 ft at 40 deg F gives about
>125 mph TAS, or about 125 x 5280 / 3600 = 183 ft/sec. 142 lb x 183
>ft/sec / 550 ft-lb/sec/hp = 47.3 hp required to maintain level flight.
>
>You measured a temperature of about 40 deg F, which is a bit colder
>than standard temperature. With non-standard temperatures there is a
>barometric altitude error to correct for (i.e. 1000 of barometric
>altitude change is actually a bit less than 1000 ft real altitude
>change). You measured a barometric climb rate of 1659 ft/min with
>the Hartzell. We need to multiply your measured rate of climb by
>the ratio of actual temperature to the standard temperature for this
>altitude, with both values express as absolute temperatures. Using
>degrees Kelvin, this translates to a real climb rate of 1659 x (277.6
>/ 288.12) = 1598 actual feet per minute.
>
>Now, rate of climb = excess power (x 33,000 ft-lb/hp) / weight. Or,
>excess power = rate of climb x weight / 33,000. 1598 x 1704 / 33,000
>= 82.5 hp. 47.3 hp required for level flight + 82.5 hp excess for
>the climb = 129.5 hp that must be produced by the prop. If the
>engine was producing 166 hp, and the prop produced 129.8 hp, that
>means the prop efficiency was about 78.3%, which is quite believable.
>
>On a standard day, the engine would be producing a bit less power,
>and the TAS would be a bit higher (which means a bit more power is
>required to maintain level flight). That translates to a predicted
>rate of climb at 1704 lb of about 1575 ft/min, or about 23 ft/min
>less than at the test conditions.
>
>With the Whirlwind prop, I calculate a real rate of climb at the test
>conditions of about 1645 ft/min, and a prop efficiency of about
>76.8%. At 1704 lb on a standard day, that gives a predicted rate of
>climb of about 1525 ft/min. So, if you assume the test data is 100%
>accurate to a gazillion decimal places, you would say the Whirlwind
>150 produced about a 50 ft/min rate of climb loss compared to the
>Hartzell. In reality, there is always a bit of inaccuracy in test
>data, so the actual performance difference could be a bit different
>from this calculation.
>
>I'll attack the cruise data later - my wife has a long list of things
>she thinks I need to do, and I've avoided her about as long as I can
>get away with for now.
>
>Cavaet - I haven't done this type of calculation since test pilot
>school - now days I let my flight test engineer worry about crunching
>the numbers. So, there is certainly a risk that I've fouled this up
>slightly, and some careful guy may be able to point his finger at an
>error.
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
I fine tuned my analysis of the climb data. My original assumption
that the drag varied linerally with weight isn't really a very good
one. I dug a bit deeper into that CAFE report on the RV-6A to
extract some data to come up with approximations for how induced drag
varies with weight.
The updated analyis estimates that at the same weight and
temperature, the Whirlwind 150 would produce a climb rate about 35
ft/min less than with the Hartzell. But, if you acknowledge that if
everything else is equal you will always be flying 28 lb lighter with
the Whirlwind the estimated rate of climb is within one ft/min of the
Hartzell. Of course no test data is perfect, so these estimates have
a certain error in them. I would say that the climb performance of
the Hartzell and Whirlwind are effectively the same.
I'm still working on the analysis of the cruise data.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 53
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--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
The basic question comes down to : What are you willing to stake your LIFE on
? The ELT is there to start hollering ,"Come Get Me ", if you are down
somewhere. If you choke the poor thing down , it can't holler very loud. I
want mine to be heard clear to infinity !!! If I am down in the boonies.
Just my common sense ideas.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
Message 54
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
I am building a RV-9, so I don't know if you other RV folks have had the same problem
as me with the 9, but below is a note I posted on the RV-9 list, if you
folks have any ideas, they would be welcome.
I have encountered the same problem as others with these ribs, especially the center
one that when riveted wants to pull the skin down flat. I have searched
the archives and appears one fix is to put in a shim between the rib flange and
skin. Is this the general consensus, or are there any other ideas out there?
Thanks in advance. Glenn Brasch, Arizona, -9A Emp.
DO NOT ARCHIVE.
Message 55
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Daniel A. Storer" <storerda@cox.net>
Fellows,
Please understand there's no threat meant by this survey, only good. I'm
trying to complete my education and couple it with my love of flying. I was
hoping that I might be able to help with my "mandated research study"
improve RV safety, and learn more about the plane I will be building in two
months.
Dan Storer
Oklahoma City
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: "Survey"
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> I got the same feeling it was to smoothly written. I knew I was not
> going to respond to it.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
> Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
> >
> > Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't
know,
> > but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
> >
> > Jerry Cochran
> > RV6a/FWF
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Cool running |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
Subject: RV-List: Cool running
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
>
> Hi,
>
> Briefly the cylinder head temps on our RV-8 are running too cool and I am
> open to any ideas on how to increase them, has anyone had this problem
> before? If so what was your solution?
Art:
I believe the outlet fairing size on the engine baffles has a significant
effect on the cylinder temps. These are the curved sections of baffling
below the cyl head and cyl barrell. Kent Pazer in his book "Speed with
Efficiency" discussed the impact of changing the size of these openings.
I did some tweaking on mine in an attempt to more closely balance cylinder
temps and found a little goes a long way. Since there is no easy way to
measure temps at the barrel it might be best to work on the head baffle
only. Try closing them up in quarter inch increments until you get the temps
you are looking for. I would think temporary extensions could be pop
riveted on and then a more permanent mod fabricated.
Dick Sipp
N250DS RV4 360 hours
Message 57
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| Subject: | Wanted: Used Stuff! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael Saffold" <michaelsaffold@hotmail.com>
Hi everyone. I'm looking for a few used things . Orndorf videos, CP 214 type squeezer,
longeron yoke, Avery hand squeezer, quick connect pins for same.
Message 58
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--> RV-List message posted by: David Aronson <aronsond@pacbell.net>
How about trying a simple 1/2 or 1/4 oil cooler coverage with metallic
tape. Easy to accomplish and easy to adjust per seasons, etc.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Arthur and
Christine
Subject: RV-List: Cool running
--> RV-List message posted by: "Arthur and Christine" <act1@reap.org.nz>
Hi,
Briefly the cylinder head temps on our RV-8 are running too cool and I
am
open to any ideas on how to increase them, has anyone had this problem
before? If so what was your solution?
We recently had the pleasure of the company of, Harry Fenton from
Unison,
Adrian McHardy (Asia-Pacific Rep) and Paul McBride from Lycoming. They
unanimously agreed that we need to up our CHT's from the 290 to 300
degree F
range to 350 acceptable or 380 preferable.
Suggestions so far have been holes in baffles to dump some of the HP air
or
dams against the leading cylinders (Lycoming guys) and to reducing inlet
area (Tom Green Van's).
What we have-
RV-8, HO-360-C1A converted with an updraft sump and airflow performance
injection, sensenich metal propeller, oil cooler on baffel behind Nr. 4
cylinder.
Air inlets 3.5" high reducing to about 2.8" between the inlet ramp and
the
fibreglass flow smoother on the top cowl.
CHT's in climb 90kts full power - 294, 316, 328, 292
CHT's in cruies 3000' 23.5" 2700rpm about 160kts IAS leaned - 278, 308,
318,
283
What I have done so far-
1) Dam against front of nr. 1 cylinder plus a speed bump (very
aerodynamic
about .75" high) at front of left inlet ramp.
Effect-
Climb 100kts full power - 343, 314, 323, 299
Cruise - 322, 305, 305, 282
So dam increased Nr 1 and deacreased Nr 3 with no overall increase in
temps.
Speed bump had zero effect, air just wizzed right on trough as with a
venturi.
I have permanently installed a smaller dam agains the Nr 1 cylinder
head.
2) Removed about 30 percent of the baffell rubber seal from back of
engine.
Effect-
Negligable rise in temps; all that effort putting that rubber seal on
for
what? :)
3) Bent some 32 thou alclad strips and pop riveted them to the very
front of
the inlet ramps to form a 1.1" high dam across each ramp (who cares
about
smooth airflow!)
Effect-
Climb - 352, 340, 350, 322
Cruise - 353, 352, 343, 307
I have checked the calibration of the CHT guage (electronics
internation) by
checking the readings on all probes early in the morning on the RV-8 and
our
Cessna 206. All readings egt and cht on both aeroplanes were within 3
deg F
of others.
Put CHT probes from 2 and 4 cylinders in a jug of boiling water, both
read
204 deg f which I presume is about right for an elevation of 1350'.
I have swapped the injectors on Nr's 2 and 4 cylinders to see if a
faulty
injector is causing the cylinder to run cooler than the others. Will fly
tomorrow to check though a quick comparison of EGT's today did not point
to
a fault.
A knowledgable person suggested that the oil cooler on the baffle would
draw
more air to the back increasing the cooling for the Nr. 4 cylinder.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Cheers,
Arthur Whitehead
Very cool RV-8 with about 8.5 hours air time.
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 59
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--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
No offense, but are you guys paranoid or what? First of all the only method of
tracking who takes the survey is via your IP address and with the way many
companies use NAT several people would appear to all come from the same IP
address. Even if your computer has it's own IP address there is no proof that
you were using it. And for this to have even a hint of significance, the form
would have to store your IP address with the other data, a quick look at the
form reveals that is not happening. But if you are as paranoid as you sound I
doubt all the argument in the world would persuade you.
do not archive
Jerry Springer wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> I got the same feeling it was to smoothly written. I knew I was not
> going to respond to it.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
> Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
> >
> > Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't know,
> > but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
> >
> > Jerry Cochran
> > RV6a/FWF
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Cleaner as pre prime cleaner |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I would think that something that just evaporates will leave undesirable
coatings on the metal.
I used an aluminun etch and scotchbrite pad , then rinse well with lots of
water. I wanted my paint to become part of the metal. I primed all the
inside parts before assembly , because you won't see them again.
do not archive
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
Message 61
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--> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
"Daniel A. Storer" wrote:
> Fellows,
>
> Please understand there's no threat meant by this survey, only good. I'm
> trying to complete my education and couple it with my love of flying. I was
> hoping that I might be able to help with my "mandated research study"
> improve RV safety, and learn more about the plane I will be building in two
> months.
Two months!!??!!?? Now that's what I call fast building ;)
Yes I know he meant start building in 2 months,
do not archive
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: HS Nose Ribs |
--> RV-List message posted by: david just david <davlaw1@juno.com>
hi glenn,
my name is dave, also live in phx, and am looking to begin the 8a kit
soon. after talking with several ppl both who have built, and who are
currently building, as well as watching the orendorf video's.... that is
what they each have said.
small 1/2" x 1/2" shim, and dimpled to fit into place. there is no loss
of structural integrity.
this method would be as strong, if not stronger than with out....
if going on a rib, i would think the shim could be any length needed,
rather than several small ones??
hope this helps you
dave
a&p
rv8a kit soon to start
Message 63
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
I don't know Chris, aren't you the guy that wanted to fly an RV without
a tail wheel? Now that really makes me paranoid. If not nevermind.
Jerry
do not archive
----------
Chris wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
>
> No offense, but are you guys paranoid or what? First of all the only method
of
> tracking who takes the survey is via your IP address and with the way many
> companies use NAT several people would appear to all come from the same IP
> address. Even if your computer has it's own IP address there is no proof that
> you were using it. And for this to have even a hint of significance, the form
> would have to store your IP address with the other data, a quick look at the
> form reveals that is not happening. But if you are as paranoid as you sound
I
> doubt all the argument in the world would persuade you.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>>
>>I got the same feeling it was to smoothly written. I knew I was not
>>going to respond to it.
>>
>>Jerry
>>do not archive
>>
>>Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>>>
>>>Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't know,
>>>but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
>>>
>>>Jerry Cochran
>>>RV6a/FWF
>>
>
> --
> Chris Woodhouse
> 3147 SW 127th St.
> Oklahoma City, OK 73170
> 405-691-5206 (home)
> chrisw@programmer.net
> N35 20.492'
> W97 34.342'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: was, Brakes Sticking??; now, engine test runs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Sam:
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> -But, if it was MY new engine, and the DAR asked if it had been ground
> tested for an hour, my answer would be that I had complied with all
> recommendations per the engine manufacturer, and if he had a problem
> with that answer, ask the DAR to take up the issue of ground-running
> with Lycoming. ;-)
I also am not familiar with a requirement that the engine be run for a full hour
prior to signoff by a DAR. In my -8A with
a new engine, I had probably 15 minutes of running time on the ground before the
first flight. Yes, I did run up to full
power briefly, but only to make sure it would get there. The engine broke in fine.
In the case of a new or
newly-overhauled engine, running for an hour of taxi time is almost guaranteed
to glaze the cylinders. This would be time
very ill spent, in my view.
Bill Marvel
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: HS Nose Ribs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Glenn:
I don't know about a general consensus, but I for one had the same problem on my
-8A and used the shim method to address it. Not well, by the way, as I am prepping
for paint now and had to toss in some bondo to fill the small dent there.
In the overall scheme of things, this issue will be small potatoes (or no
e of you prefer). It won't be the last problem you run
into or have to conquer. Just fix the problem and head off into the rest of the
project. That's how you eventually get to fly it.
Bill Marvel
Glenn Brasch wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
>
> I am building a RV-9, so I don't know if you other RV folks have had the same
problem as me with the 9, but below is a note I posted on the RV-9 list, if you
folks have any ideas, they would be welcome.
>
> I have encountered the same problem as others with these ribs, especially the
center one that when riveted wants to pull the skin down flat. I have searched
the archives and appears one fix is to put in a shim between the rib flange
and skin. Is this the general consensus, or are there any other ideas out there?
Thanks in advance. Glenn Brasch, Arizona, -9A Emp.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE.
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 66
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"RV-9A@yahoogroups.com" <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | N169AK First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
RV9A 90374 - N169AK first flight
The day dawned clear and cold Sunday February 23, 2003. With the inspection over,
the planning done, checks and double checks finished, fuel added, it was time
to fly. Pulling the plane from the hanger people started showing up. My wife
and I had the plan in mind, but it was great to see a few of my local EAA buds
from the chapter show up just because they knew that I was going to fly today
Engine starts easily, and a quick trip down to the pumps for 5 more gallons of
gas. Now its run up time. 2200 RPM static full throttle on the ground is good
for the Sensenich FP prop. Everything is still looking good, so out to the runway
we go. Lineup full throttle, with no flaps I am off in a very short amount
of time. I run a bit on the main gear with the nose in the air as the RV9 has
such a large tail and good elevator control. Lift off is smooth and climb out
is brisk. Its about 40degrees and I am seeing 1600fpm at 100+mph! Still turning
about 2250 RPM during climb out.
Pitch felt good, ailerons needed just 2-3 taps on the electric aileron trim. Hey
this is just too cool The RV grin is starting! By downwind I am at 2000agl and
climbing, level off at 3000 and start the racetrack around the airport. I flew
about 20 minuets of just turning right and left in circles around the airport.
Next came slow flight, everything felt nice a easy at 70mph, so I dropped
the flaps to half and then full. Everything still nice and balanced, controls
are now much lighter in feel at 70mph. Everything looking good I accelerated
back to cruise.
At 3000agl with 2400RPM I was indicating a solid 160mph with no gear leg fairings
or wheel pants. Not bad, this baby is going to cruise nicely. Well everything
is still looking good, so its time to let down for landing. Pushing the nose
downhill winds the airspeed through 185+ very quickly, pull the power back and
float down onto the 45. Downwind established at about 120mph, pull the power
to idle abeam the numbers and start feeding in flaps as I come through 85, full
flaps on base and capture 70mph and about 500fpm descent. Sweeping around
to final and holding about 70 gives a nice approach for this first one, everything
is lined up and working great as I setup the landing flair from memory of
my training in the RV6A (Thanks Mike Seager) I hold the pitch attitude and wait,
however I was used to the 6A which sits quite a bit lower than the 9A, so
next thing I know the wheels hit and I get a little bounce out of it, holding
attitude the speed bleeds off and the second landing is smooth YEA first flight
is a success!
Post flight inspection did not uncover any leaks, or anything else that needed
working on. So whats a guy to do, but a second flight. While I was orbiting on
the second flight a friend from the EAA chapter came up in his RV6 to do some
formation inspection and video camera work. We had a great 30 min of air to air
shots and compared airspeeds etc. Great fun!
All in all 1.5 hours TT today and my face is still hurting from the famous RV grin!
As in those famous words, Keep pounding those rivets, because you are going to
love this plane!
Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
N169AK - Flying
Message 67
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Geez, Jerry, I can't fly anything WITH a tailwheel....
Bill Marvel
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jerry Springer wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> I don't know Chris, aren't you the guy that wanted to fly an RV without
> a tail wheel? Now that really makes me paranoid. If not nevermind.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
> ----------
>
> Chris wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Chris <chrisw3@cox.net>
> >
> > No offense, but are you guys paranoid or what? First of all the only method
of
> > tracking who takes the survey is via your IP address and with the way many
> > companies use NAT several people would appear to all come from the same IP
> > address. Even if your computer has it's own IP address there is no proof that
> > you were using it. And for this to have even a hint of significance, the
form
> > would have to store your IP address with the other data, a quick look at the
> > form reveals that is not happening. But if you are as paranoid as you sound
I
> > doubt all the argument in the world would persuade you.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > Jerry Springer wrote:
> >
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
> >>
> >>I got the same feeling it was to smoothly written. I knew I was not
> >>going to respond to it.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>do not archive
> >>
> >>Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
> >>>
> >>>Hate to sound paranoid, and this survey might be legitmate, I don't know,
> >>>but somehow it sounded like lawyer talk. My .02, do not archive.
> >>>
> >>>Jerry Cochran
> >>>RV6a/FWF
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Chris Woodhouse
> > 3147 SW 127th St.
> > Oklahoma City, OK 73170
> > 405-691-5206 (home)
> > chrisw@programmer.net
> > N35 20.492'
> > W97 34.342'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: N169AK First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Congratulations, Andy! It was only about 10 months ago that I got the RV grin
in my -8A and a picture over my computer reminds me of it daily. There is just
no feeling quite like taking your project into the blue for the first time.
May I wish you many more happy adventures in the airplane. The world is a big
place but your RV makes it a lot smaller.
Bill Marvel
Andy Karmy wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
>
> RV9A 90374 - N169AK first flight
>
> The day dawned clear and cold Sunday February 23, 2003. With the inspection over,
the planning done, checks and double checks finished, fuel added, it was
time to fly. Pulling the plane from the hanger people started showing up. My wife
and I had the plan in mind, but it was great to see a few of my local EAA
buds from the chapter show up just because they knew that I was going to fly today
>
> Engine starts easily, and a quick trip down to the pumps for 5 more gallons of
gas. Now its run up time. 2200 RPM static full throttle on the ground is good
for the Sensenich FP prop. Everything is still looking good, so out to the runway
we go. Lineup full throttle, with no flaps I am off in a very short amount
of time. I run a bit on the main gear with the nose in the air as the RV9 has
such a large tail and good elevator control. Lift off is smooth and climb out
is brisk. Its about 40degrees and I am seeing 1600fpm at 100+mph! Still turning
about 2250 RPM during climb out.
>
> Pitch felt good, ailerons needed just 2-3 taps on the electric aileron trim.
Hey this is just too cool The RV grin is starting! By downwind I am at 2000agl
and climbing, level off at 3000 and start the racetrack around the airport. I
flew about 20 minuets of just turning right and left in circles around the airport.
Next came slow flight, everything felt nice a easy at 70mph, so I dropped
the flaps to half and then full. Everything still nice and balanced, controls
are now much lighter in feel at 70mph. Everything looking good I accelerated
back to cruise.
>
> At 3000agl with 2400RPM I was indicating a solid 160mph with no gear leg fairings
or wheel pants. Not bad, this baby is going to cruise nicely. Well everything
is still looking good, so its time to let down for landing. Pushing the nose
downhill winds the airspeed through 185+ very quickly, pull the power back
and float down onto the 45. Downwind established at about 120mph, pull the power
to idle abeam the numbers and start feeding in flaps as I come through 85,
full flaps on base and capture 70mph and about 500fpm descent. Sweeping around
to final and holding about 70 gives a nice approach for this first one, everything
is lined up and working great as I setup the landing flair from memory
of my training in the RV6A (Thanks Mike Seager) I hold the pitch attitude and
wait, however I was used to the 6A which sits quite a bit lower than the 9A, so
next thing I know the wheels hit and I get a little bounce out of it, holding
attitude the speed bleeds off and the second landing!
> is smooth YEA first flight is a success!
>
> Post flight inspection did not uncover any leaks, or anything else that needed
working on. So whats a guy to do, but a second flight. While I was orbiting
on the second flight a friend from the EAA chapter came up in his RV6 to do some
formation inspection and video camera work. We had a great 30 min of air to
air shots and compared airspeeds etc. Great fun!
>
> All in all 1.5 hours TT today and my face is still hurting from the famous RV
grin!
>
> As in those famous words, Keep pounding those rivets, because you are going to
love this plane!
>
> Andy Karmy
> RV9A Seattle WA
> N169AK - Flying
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 69
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Russ Alnutt" <rsalnutt@inreach.com>
I have an RV-6 and would like to find an exhaust system that does not cross in
front of my engine sump. Does anyone have any suggestions.
rsalnutt@inreach.com
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: N169AK First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Schnebeck" <schnebeck@attbi.com>
Congratulations, what a beautiful day for your 1st flight. Sounds like you
have the "grin"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
<RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: N169AK First Flight
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
>
>
> RV9A 90374 - N169AK first flight
>
> The day dawned clear and cold Sunday February 23, 2003. With the
inspection over, the planning done, checks and double checks finished, fuel
added, it was time to fly. Pulling the plane from the hanger people started
showing up. My wife and I had the plan in mind, but it was great to see a
few of my local EAA buds from the chapter show up just because they knew
that I was going to fly today
>
> Engine starts easily, and a quick trip down to the pumps for 5 more
gallons of gas. Now its run up time. 2200 RPM static full throttle on the
ground is good for the Sensenich FP prop. Everything is still looking good,
so out to the runway we go. Lineup full throttle, with no flaps I am off in
a very short amount of time. I run a bit on the main gear with the nose in
the air as the RV9 has such a large tail and good elevator control. Lift off
is smooth and climb out is brisk. Its about 40degrees and I am seeing
1600fpm at 100+mph! Still turning about 2250 RPM during climb out.
>
> Pitch felt good, ailerons needed just 2-3 taps on the electric aileron
trim. Hey this is just too cool The RV grin is starting! By downwind I am at
2000agl and climbing, level off at 3000 and start the racetrack around the
airport. I flew about 20 minuets of just turning right and left in circles
around the airport. Next came slow flight, everything felt nice a easy at
70mph, so I dropped the flaps to half and then full. Everything still nice
and balanced, controls are now much lighter in feel at 70mph. Everything
looking good I accelerated back to cruise.
>
> At 3000agl with 2400RPM I was indicating a solid 160mph with no gear leg
fairings or wheel pants. Not bad, this baby is going to cruise nicely. Well
everything is still looking good, so its time to let down for landing.
Pushing the nose downhill winds the airspeed through 185+ very quickly, pull
the power back and float down onto the 45. Downwind established at about
120mph, pull the power to idle abeam the numbers and start feeding in flaps
as I come through 85, full flaps on base and capture 70mph and about 500fpm
descent. Sweeping around to final and holding about 70 gives a nice approach
for this first one, everything is lined up and working great as I setup the
landing flair from memory of my training in the RV6A (Thanks Mike Seager) I
hold the pitch attitude and wait, however I was used to the 6A which sits
quite a bit lower than the 9A, so next thing I know the wheels hit and I get
a little bounce out of it, holding attitude the speed bleeds off and the
second landing!
> is smooth YEA first flight is a success!
>
> Post flight inspection did not uncover any leaks, or anything else that
needed working on. So whats a guy to do, but a second flight. While I was
orbiting on the second flight a friend from the EAA chapter came up in his
RV6 to do some formation inspection and video camera work. We had a great 30
min of air to air shots and compared airspeeds etc. Great fun!
>
> All in all 1.5 hours TT today and my face is still hurting from the famous
RV grin!
>
> As in those famous words, Keep pounding those rivets, because you are
going to love this plane!
>
> Andy Karmy
> RV9A Seattle WA
> N169AK - Flying
>
>
Message 71
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| Subject: | Tip-up canopy frame...are the instructions really in English? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I'm a hard time understanding one paragraph from the RV-7 tip-up canopy
instructions. Maybe somebody can help translate. Otherwise I guess I'll
call Van's in the morning. From page 9-4 of the RV-7 finish kit
instructions:
"When the forward ribs of the Wd-716 canopy frame assembly are manufactured,
the flanges do not form to the necessary 90 degrees. Use a file or belt
sander to remove some material on the aft edge of the upper flange so it's
90 degrees when checked with a square. Only the portion from the center to
about 3" outboard of each hinge bracket should be modified. Outboard of
that, the fuselage widens and the flange should be a little under-bent."
It took me about 6 read-throughs for me to understand what it's talking
about. Ribs? Several things could be construed as "ribs" on the canopy
frame. I have to assume "forward ribs" means the C channels at the front of
the frame. They're the only thing with flanges with an aft edge.
The only thing I can think of is that I assume you want the canopy skin to
lay flat where it abuts the forward top skin. Is that what we're talking
about here? If so, they could have just said "File the top surface of the
top flange of the C channel as necessary to allow the canopy skin to sit
flat and parallel with the forward top skin."
I don't mean to pick symantic nits, but I also don't want to miss or mistake
a critical step.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (canopy)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 72
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
OK Bill you got me. :-) Remember when someone wanted someone take their
tail wheel off a tailwheel equipped RV and put a skid or something there
to see how it would handle?
Bill Marvel wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
>
> Geez, Jerry, I can't fly anything WITH a tailwheel....
>
> Bill Marvel
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 73
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--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
Sorry to bother all with another priming question...couldn't find a real direct
answer in the archives. I have been priming all of the ribs and internal components
with the SW wash primer. To save time, money, and weight, I am planning
on not priming the interior surface of the skin (relying on the alcad for corrosion
protection). Question is this...I have heard many say that you want
to prime just along the "rib line" of the internal skins. I assume a person would
have to remove the alcad in that area, or would one just prime over the alcad?
If the ribs are primed well, then is primer along the inside skin "rivet
line" really necessary.
Thanks,
Scott
7A Emp
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 74
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|
| Subject: | Cracks in quickbuild WD603-R&L and WD-602-R&L |
--> RV-List message posted by: "phil jones" <phil.jones@medpacs.com>
After Waiting a very long time for my quickbuild fuselage, I am very upset to find
cracks in the welded parts in all four corners. Part number WD-603-L-1 WD-603-R-1
WD-602-R-1 and WD-502L-1. I have attached only on photo but all four are
the same. Anyone else have this and any input would be appreciated. I have
emailed Van's and am waiting their response.
Phil Jones
Message 75
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| Subject: | Re: Alcad Priming |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel <bmarvel@cox.net>
Scott:
IMHO, this entire area of internal corrosion protection is way over blown. Yes,
I did it, but I also realize that 50 year old airplanes are still flying without
anything inside but alclad. And WWII airplanes are out there with only zinc
chromate on the inside surfaces.
To answer your question, I would not try to remove the alclad to prime along the
rib lines. Just clean with lacquer thinner, scratch it up with Scotchbrite,
clean again and fire away with the primer. Or, as you said, prime only the ribs
and leave the alclad skin as is. Unless you're 16 years old, or living under
three feet of salt water, the airplane is going to last longer than you do.
There will probably be other opinions out there, maybe strong ones, but that's
mine. As I see it, the object is to complete the airplane and fly it all
over everywhere, not to make it another Mona Lisa to hang on a wall.
Bill Marvel
tx_jayhawk@excite.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
>
> Sorry to bother all with another priming question...couldn't find a real direct
answer in the archives. I have been priming all of the ribs and internal components
with the SW wash primer. To save time, money, and weight, I am planning
on not priming the interior surface of the skin (relying on the alcad for
corrosion protection). Question is this...I have heard many say that you want
to prime just along the "rib line" of the internal skins. I assume a person
would have to remove the alcad in that area, or would one just prime over the
alcad? If the ribs are primed well, then is primer along the inside skin "rivet
line" really necessary.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> 7A Emp
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
Message 76
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted) |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Stein,
The ultimate authority to answer your questions is of course Sensenich.
But I can tell you that yes, you can pitch the 72FM prop (O-360) beyond
85".....assuming it hasn't already been repitched several times since
new. There's a max limit to repitching for the life of prop in inches
but I can't recall what it is. Anyway if you got it new at 85" it would
be no problem going to 87" for example. There are only a couple guys I
know of running 87" pitch and I'm not sure if either of them are on the
List right now, but I have a vested interest since I've got an 87" prop
for my RV (not flying yet though).
The best data I could get was that an increase of a couple inches of
pitch will drop static rpm 25-50 rpm and reduce the altitude at which you
can fly WOT without exceeding 2700 by about 1500' or so....there's more
in the archives if you look. Russel Duffy was running an 85" pitch on
his RV-8 and had Sensenich repitch it to 87" (it costs $150 plus shipping
to have them do this BTW). He did it for the same reasons you are
expressing....wanted to be able to open up the throttle more at lower
altitudes without such high rpms. Gives you a bit better efficiency and
slightly more speed flat out. He didn't do any really accurate
before-and-after testing to get good data from the change but said it
didn't seem to affect his takeoff and climb performance much and he was
happier with it in cruise.
I expect to be happy with my setup once flying--well, as happy as one can
be without going CS : ) I think you'd like 87" since you're in MN at
relatively low elevations....if you're out West and routinely operate
from density altitudes above 2500' I wouldn't recommend anything over
83-85" max from what I've heard.
If you want to do a performance comparison without repitching your prop
feel free to fly down here to Cedar Rapids on a nice day.....you're only
an hour away from me. If the ground is dry enough you can land at
McBride (7IA3, nice grass strip on the N. side of town) a mile from my
house, or another hardtop runway like Marion if things are too soggy.
I'll bring my prop out, we can throw it on and you can go fly it and see
how you like it. Then you'll know what you're getting before repitching
yours.....
Let me know...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward and wiring....
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sensenich Prop (was Prop testing data posted)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hey guys,
Speaking of prop testing data, I have a similar (but different) question.
I
know this thread has been about C/S props, but mine is about the FP
Sensenich. Here's my question,
Has anyone twinted these beyone 85"?????
I ask because of my data:
I have a 180hp AEIO-360/B4A Lyc swinging an 85" sensenich.
Static RPM 2250 - Full throttle up to 10.5K I can easily run to
2750-2800+
RPM.
I have a solid (aerobatic) crank, so I can't use a C/S, but I'm wondering
if
I can put in a couple more inches of twist without harming the prop.
#1) Is this wise?
#2) Would I lose too much static RPM to offset the top end gain?
Basically I'm just looking for a way to utilize some more hp at slower
RPM's. I don't cruise around at 2750-2800RPM, usually around 2500. My
engine is used, came off a Pitts, and I suspect it may be putting out a
bit
more HP than I originally thought. The logs are a bit vague about what
was
done at the last OH (600hrs ago), so I don't know if it's stock or not, I
just know it runs like a banshee!
Thanks in advance for any tips,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis.
Oh, and YES the C/S guys can out-climb me, but I keep up just fine (or
better) on the top end.
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