---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/06/03: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Paint on canopies (Jim Jewell) 2. 03:19 AM - Re: Free Speed (Richard Dallmann) 3. 04:35 AM - SportAir RV workshop (Paul Parashak) 4. 07:05 AM - Remote mag sensing, was "Re: Dynon Update" (Miller Robert) 5. 07:11 AM - Re: Paint on canopies (Rob Miller) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: SportAir RV workshop (BARRY POTE) 7. 08:17 AM - Re: Paint on canopies (Ken Harrill) 8. 08:55 AM - Rear Spar (Jim Duckett) 9. 09:08 AM - Paint on Canopies (Jim Duckett) 10. 09:21 AM - IO-360 prop governer housing (Gert) 11. 09:28 AM - Re: RV9-A QB fuselage (kempthornes) 12. 10:28 AM - IO-360 prop governer housing (Gert) 13. 11:20 AM - Re: Paint on canopies (Garth Shearing) 14. 01:00 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (Van Artsdalen, Scott) 15. 01:37 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (Scott Brumbelow) 16. 01:38 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (John Starn) 17. 02:08 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (C. Rabaut) 18. 02:33 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (Bill Dube) 19. 02:45 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (Dr. Leathers) 20. 03:00 PM - Re: RV9-A QB fuselage (Dave Bristol) 21. 03:50 PM - For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) (Al Mojzisik) 22. 04:46 PM - Re: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) (C. Rabaut) 23. 04:54 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (rv6tc) 24. 04:56 PM - Re: Altimeter heads up (rv6tc) 25. 05:33 PM - Re: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) (Arthur Nation) 26. 05:37 PM - crimping big terminals (Steve J Hurlbut) 27. 06:25 PM - >Re: Crimping Big Terminals (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 28. 06:39 PM - Re: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) (John Starn) 29. 08:15 PM - For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) (Al Mojzisik) 30. 10:20 PM - Re: VM Fuel Flow Sender needed (Vanremog@aol.com) 31. 11:02 PM - Re: VM Fuel Flow Sender needed (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)) 32. 11:06 PM - Re: RV9-A QB fuselage (kempthornes) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:10 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: RV-List: Paint on canopies --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Can anyone tell me if there are kinds of paint that should not be used on Plexiglas? Conversely what paints are considered safe? I want to paint around the edges of the inside perimeter of the windshield section so as to provide a cleaner finished appearance after the epoxy and glass bonding is done. Earlier there was some amount of discussion re-chemicals that reacted with Plexiglas and I did not see any reference to paints and there effects. do not archive Jim in Kelowna ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:43 AM PST US From: "Richard Dallmann" Subject: RE: RV-List: Free Speed --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Dallmann" take me off your email list -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of WILLMINCEY@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Free Speed --> RV-List message posted by: WILLMINCEY@aol.com I fly the mighty RV-3 and yes I have the recommended hook to keep low pressure from raising the tail of the canopy (slider). I froze each winter until I fabricated the piece as suggested in the early RVator magazine. Yes, it was good for at least 3mph and I now can fly without a jacket in the winter.(I have a heater). My hangermate also has an RV-3 and a canopy hook is installed with the same results. I went a step farther and replaced the inspection plates with a plate with 20 3/16in holes shaped/looks like a cheese grader. This keeps the wings from pumping air into the cockpit so strong. I don't need boots around the flight controls now. By the way, I installed Van's two piece wheel pants and yes they produced the additional airspeed as advertised. Will Mincey RV-3 N81TD ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:22 AM PST US From: Paul Parashak Subject: RV-List: SportAir RV workshop --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Parashak I am a future 7A builder at the preview plans stage, as I like to say. I am going to the Atlanta March RV workshop, and I would like to ask some questions of those who have attended these in the past. What questions do you wish you asked at the time? What skills do you wish you learned there that weren't taught? How many instructors per student were there? Regards, Paul Parashak http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:25 AM PST US From: Miller Robert Subject: RV-List: Remote mag sensing, was "RE: Dynon Update" --> RV-List message posted by: Miller Robert > 1) Does the thin but still stainless steel firewall about 12-14" away from > the display unit present enough of a potential magnetic snag to worry about > it, or would nearby TC gyro motors and avionics and stuff like that be more > likely culprits? > I've been thinking about exactly this.... for a while. This issue is of concern in that I wish to use a panel mount whiskey compass (will be using a tip-up, and prefer the compass on the panel in any case). Will almost certainly use an EFIS, as well. 1. It seems to me that the firewall, if stainless, should not affect the mag compass. Only bright steel is an issue. Problem is, a number of different alloys of steel are sold under the description "stainless". Just need to put a compass near the firewall and test this directly. 2. The avionics and electric motors of any mechanical gyros will all have an electro-magnetic field around them. This is obviously, an issue. The compass needs good compensators that are well adjusted. Compensators will have to be adjusted once panel is all together, in plane, and everything is on. If you change anything in the future (even velcroing a handheld GPS nearby on the panel), compensation may again be required. 3. So, it seems to me that remote mounting of mag sensors for the EFIS may be helpful. Remember, though, that even electric wiring may have a surrounding field. Of course, the inverse square law applies.... so as you increase the distance, the effect on the mag sensors drops off with the square of the distance. Conclusion: No perfect installation, but "good enough" should be achievable. Robert Miller Dan Checkoway wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > Our optional remote compass module allows you to place the magnetic > > sensors in a location away from any interference and thus minimizes > > the problems stated above. However, for it to be accurate, it has > > to be precisely aligned with the EFIS-D10 (including any tilt.) > > The calibration process described above will relax the requirements > > on alignment and allow for an easier installation of the remote > > compass module. > > Doug, > > This seems like the best way to go...putting the remote sensor in the aft > fuselage (i.e. RV-7) where there's little or no steel nearby. And with a > SmartTool or digital protractor I'm sure getting the thing precisely aligned > wouldn't be a huge deal. > > 1) Does the thin but still stainless steel firewall about 12-14" away from > the display unit present enough of a potential magnetic snag to worry about > it, or would nearby TC gyro motors and avionics and stuff like that be more > likely culprits? > > 2) Assuming we go with a remote magnetic sensor, what's the wiring > requirement there...what size/# of wires, any length limitations, etc.? > > Thanks again, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (canopy) > http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:19 AM PST US From: Rob Miller Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint on canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Miller Jim I used epoxy flat black spray paint on mine. I tested it first on a piece of scrap, letting it sit for a week and examining it carefully for any reaction before applying it to the windscreen edges. Rob Miller -8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 47 hours --- Jim Jewell wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > > Can anyone tell me if there are kinds of paint that should not be used > on Plexiglas? Conversely what paints are considered safe? > I want to paint around the edges of the inside perimeter of the > windshield section so as to provide a cleaner finished appearance after > the epoxy and glass bonding is done. > Earlier there was some amount of discussion re-chemicals that reacted > with Plexiglas and I did not see any reference to paints and there > effects. > > do not archive Jim in Kelowna > > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:01 AM PST US From: BARRY POTE Subject: Re: RV-List: SportAir RV workshop --> RV-List message posted by: BARRY POTE Paul, I was glad I went. The class gives an overview of what it is all about. It lets you 'touch' the tools. It takes away most of the fears. There were 2 teachers and about a dozen to maybe 15 of us. I would have made sure what was an acceptable sheet metal edge. I think I have gone to the extreme 'smooth' end of things and don't believe it is really necessary. Barry Pote Freezing in NJ! RV9a canopy ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Parashak Subject: RV-List: SportAir RV workshop > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Parashak > > I am a future 7A builder at the preview plans stage, > as I like to say. I am going to the Atlanta March RV > workshop, and I would like to ask some questions of > those who have attended these in the past. > > What questions do you wish you asked at the time? > > What skills do you wish you learned there that weren't > taught? > > How many instructors per student were there? > > Regards, > > Paul Parashak > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > _- > ======================================================================_ -= - The RV-List Email Forum - > _- > ======================================================================_ -= !! NEWish !! > _- > ======================================================================_ -= List Related Information > _- > ====================================================================== > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:12 AM PST US From: Ken Harrill Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint on canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Ken Harrill Jim, I bought a small bottle of black pigment from West Marine to mix with the epoxy resin. Works great. Brush a coat onto the plexi and let it cure for a short while before the first fiberglass lay up. Easier than paint and looks very professional. Ken Harrill 803 253-4160 ext. 211 --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Can anyone tell me if there are kinds of paint that should not be used on Plexiglas? Conversely what paints are considered safe? I want to paint around the edges of the inside perimeter of the windshield section so as to provide a cleaner finished appearance after the epoxy and glass bonding is done. Earlier there was some amount of discussion re-chemicals that reacted with Plexiglas and I did not see any reference to paints and there effects. do not archive Jim in Kelowna ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:32 AM PST US From: Jim Duckett Subject: RV-List: Rear Spar --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett Hi Guys, Well after months of other jobs, I'm finally back working on my own ship. In getting everything ready to permanently assemble the wings but I've come up with a question. In looking at the W-707A (Rear Spar) and the W-707F (End or Tip Reinforcing plate) the question arises concerning the flanges of both. What is the standard practice with these? Do you dimple both or just dimple the spar flange and C/S the plate? In my mind the .040 plate is getting pretty thick to dimple without offsetting the other holes on the spar web (Ribs and such). I couldn't find anything in the archives about this and figured I'd try the List before I called Van's. Just don't want to make other -707F's if I don't need to. Jim Duckett RV-7A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:52 AM PST US From: Jim Duckett Subject: RV-List: Paint on Canopies --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett Jim, To the best of my knowledge as long as you do not use a lacquer based paint you should be okay. In other words if you use any polymer based paint (urethanes and most acrylics) you'll be fine. The culprit is the high toulene used in some enamel spray cans and in lacquers. It attacks the plexi and causes it to craze and in time will make it brittle and susceptible to cracking. Hope this helps... Jim D. N708JD ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:33 AM PST US From: Gert rv-list Subject: RV-List: IO-360 prop governer housing --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Hi folks I have a prop governer adapter housing marked "71676 G". Can somebody verify that this is a prop governer housing for an IO-360 ?? I have a hollow shafted gear, no part #, which fits but appears too long for this housing. The shaft takes a snap-ring, but the snap ring appears to float above an oil seal. That somehow does not strike me as correct. I think this is a shaft for another type of governer housing. Both appear unused. Any info welcome.......... Gert -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:39 AM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9-A QB fuselage --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes At 08:07 PM 3/5/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel > >In short, the QB is, in my view, a very good value. Yes it costs more but >you will still get plenty of building experience. Actually, you get more experience with the QB. You do more different tasks but less repetition. I figured I hired builder assistance for about $8 per hour. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:55 AM PST US From: Gert "rv8list@egroups.com" Subject: RV-List: IO-360 prop governer housing --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Hi folks I have a prop governer adapter housing marked "71676 G". Can somebody verify that this is a prop governer housing for an IO-360 ?? I have a hollow shafted gear, no part #, which fits but appears too long for this housing. The shaft takes a snap-ring, but the snap ring appears to float above an oil seal. That somehow does not strike me as correct. I think this is a shaft for another type of governer housing. Both appear unused. Any info welcome.......... Gert -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:08 AM PST US From: "Garth Shearing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint on canopies --> RV-List message posted by: "Garth Shearing" Copier toner also works really well as a black pigment for epoxy resin. Some of this is thrown out every time a toner bottle is replaced. Garth Shearing VariEze and 80% RV6A Victoria BC Canada > > I bought a small bottle of black pigment from West Marine to mix with the > epoxy resin. Works great. Brush a coat onto the plexi and let it cure for > a short while before the first fiberglass lay up. Easier than paint and > looks very professional. > > Ken Harrill ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:15 PM PST US From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Subject: RE: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French decided to quit being butt-heads. Do not archive. -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network Manager Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley@qcbc.org] Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" You should have gotten an altimeter built by a "real" instrument builder --- C.G. Conn. That's what mine is and still works fine after being delivered to the AF in 1944. Of course my French Horn was also made in the same instrument factory in Elkhart Indiana. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Marvel" Subject: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel > > Hi all: > > For those of you in the market for altimeters, you are probably going to > choose between Aerosonic and United. I chose Aerosonic. A year later, > I now have a United altimeter. You may be interested in why. > > The short story -- Aerosonic altimeters have an internal mechanism to > diminish needle vibration that United instruments don't have. This > means that they also have more internal friction than does the United > version. My initial pitot static check was fine, but a year later I had > to troubleshoot a mode C problem. In the investigation process we did > another pitot static check and the altimeter flunked the friction test > -- by a lot. It was not yet two years old. What I learned from three > instrument repair shops and one technician who does nothing but pitot > static checks caused me to change over to the United altimeter and put > the other on the shelf. It is not uncommon for the newer Aerosonic > altimeters to fail the friction test, sometimes every two years. This > results in repeated repairs and overhauls. United altimeters don't have > the same problem. > > The longer story. When this happened, the tech doing the test asked me > what type of altimeter I had (you could not tell from the front). When > I told him it was an Aerosonic, his eyes rolled. He then told me that > he had been having problems with their new units for several years, > sometimes failing right out of the box and thereafter, mostly due to > excess friction. > > I Fed Ex'd the instrument to Aerosonic and then called them to ask what > was going on. After all, this unit was almost new and had failed a > friction test. I queried them as to manufacturing problems, etc. but > they said they were not aware of any and had received no feedback on > this problem. They also said they had confirmed the problem, that their > warranty was only good for one year and since the unit was out of > warranty, I would have to pay to have it repaired. I told them I would > be happy to pay for them to tell me why it failed and that I was > surprised they weren't interested themselves to find out what had > happened so early in its life. They started into the work. > > In the interim, I called the technician back and he gave me the numbers > of three major instrument shops -- one in Wichita, one in Van Nuys and > the third in Huntington Beach. The one in Wichita said they'd had this > problem for a good 10 years and had repeatedly told the factory about > it. He also explained to me the design feature Aerosonics had to > address the needle vibration seen in United altimeters and how this is > the cause of the friction problem. The other two shops said the same > thing and that they recommended United altimeters for that reason. > Aerosonic had told me nothing of this design matter and only that they > had no problems reported from the field. > > I ordered, installed and starting flying the United instrument, which > passed the pitot/static check fine. I called Aerosonic back and told > them what I had learned about the design and the problems that had been > experienced in the field. I gave them names and phone numbers. They > stuck to their story -- no problems with their instrument. The > president of the company later called me and said that they were going > to fix mine under warranty and send it back, and that they would call me > to keep me advised of what they learned. I got the altimeter back > without the phone call. I called and left a message. No return call. > I called again today and finally got through. All they did was > disassemble, clean, lube and reassemble the unit and it tested fine. It > is now sitting on my spares shelf. > > I have no ax to grind with Aerosonic and no kudos to toss at United. I > have no involvement with either of them, either directly or indirectly. > But this is what happened to me and what I learned about it. Your > mileage may vary. > > Bill Marvel > > > -- > Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 > 7617 > P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013 > San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334 > > One good deed beats 100 good intentions... > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:57 PM PST US From: Scott Brumbelow Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow You might as well melt it down now. That French decision will not be coming until they need us to - yet again - come save them from __________ (fill in the blank, i.e., Germans, etc.)... Do not archive. Scott "Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > > Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French > decided to quit being butt-heads. > > Do not archive. > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > Network Manager > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley@qcbc.org] > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > You should have gotten an altimeter built by a "real" instrument builder --- > C.G. Conn. That's what mine is and still works fine after being delivered > to the AF in 1944. > Of course my French Horn was also made in the same instrument factory in > Elkhart Indiana. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Marvel" > To: ; "So Cal RV Group" > > Subject: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel > > > > Hi all: > > > > For those of you in the market for altimeters, you are probably going to > > choose between Aerosonic and United. I chose Aerosonic. A year later, > > I now have a United altimeter. You may be interested in why. > > > > The short story -- Aerosonic altimeters have an internal mechanism to > > diminish needle vibration that United instruments don't have. This > > means that they also have more internal friction than does the United > > version. My initial pitot static check was fine, but a year later I had > > to troubleshoot a mode C problem. In the investigation process we did > > another pitot static check and the altimeter flunked the friction test > > -- by a lot. It was not yet two years old. What I learned from three > > instrument repair shops and one technician who does nothing but pitot > > static checks caused me to change over to the United altimeter and put > > the other on the shelf. It is not uncommon for the newer Aerosonic > > altimeters to fail the friction test, sometimes every two years. This > > results in repeated repairs and overhauls. United altimeters don't have > > the same problem. > > > > The longer story. When this happened, the tech doing the test asked me > > what type of altimeter I had (you could not tell from the front). When > > I told him it was an Aerosonic, his eyes rolled. He then told me that > > he had been having problems with their new units for several years, > > sometimes failing right out of the box and thereafter, mostly due to > > excess friction. > > > > I Fed Ex'd the instrument to Aerosonic and then called them to ask what > > was going on. After all, this unit was almost new and had failed a > > friction test. I queried them as to manufacturing problems, etc. but > > they said they were not aware of any and had received no feedback on > > this problem. They also said they had confirmed the problem, that their > > warranty was only good for one year and since the unit was out of > > warranty, I would have to pay to have it repaired. I told them I would > > be happy to pay for them to tell me why it failed and that I was > > surprised they weren't interested themselves to find out what had > > happened so early in its life. They started into the work. > > > > In the interim, I called the technician back and he gave me the numbers > > of three major instrument shops -- one in Wichita, one in Van Nuys and > > the third in Huntington Beach. The one in Wichita said they'd had this > > problem for a good 10 years and had repeatedly told the factory about > > it. He also explained to me the design feature Aerosonics had to > > address the needle vibration seen in United altimeters and how this is > > the cause of the friction problem. The other two shops said the same > > thing and that they recommended United altimeters for that reason. > > Aerosonic had told me nothing of this design matter and only that they > > had no problems reported from the field. > > > > I ordered, installed and starting flying the United instrument, which > > passed the pitot/static check fine. I called Aerosonic back and told > > them what I had learned about the design and the problems that had been > > experienced in the field. I gave them names and phone numbers. They > > stuck to their story -- no problems with their instrument. The > > president of the company later called me and said that they were going > > to fix mine under warranty and send it back, and that they would call me > > to keep me advised of what they learned. I got the altimeter back > > without the phone call. I called and left a message. No return call. > > I called again today and finally got through. All they did was > > disassemble, clean, lube and reassemble the unit and it tested fine. It > > is now sitting on my spares shelf. > > > > I have no ax to grind with Aerosonic and no kudos to toss at United. I > > have no involvement with either of them, either directly or indirectly. > > But this is what happened to me and what I learned about it. Your > > mileage may vary. > > > > Bill Marvel > > > > > > -- > > Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 > > 7617 > > P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013 > > San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334 > > > > One good deed beats 100 good intentions... > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:21 PM PST US From: "John Starn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" Was that a left handed slap attempt. Pun intended. :') KABONG Do Not Archive > --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French > decided to quit being butt-heads. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:06 PM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" You know with a last name like "Rabaut"... I should stay out of this thread... but, this is America, so here's what I heard some highly placed military leaders say while discussing the issue: Three star General to a two star general, "My God man, have you heard? The French will not join our military operations in Iraq!". The two star General replies, "Oh that's dreadful... Why that would be like going dear hunting without taking an accordion!". ; ) oh please, Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Van Artsdalen, Scott Subject: RE: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > > Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French > decided to quit being butt-heads. > > Do not archive. > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > Network Manager > Union Safe Deposit Bank > 209-946-5116 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cy Galley [mailto:cgalley@qcbc.org] > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > You should have gotten an altimeter built by a "real" instrument builder --- > C.G. Conn. That's what mine is and still works fine after being delivered > to the AF in 1944. > Of course my French Horn was also made in the same instrument factory in > Elkhart Indiana. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Marvel" > To: ; "So Cal RV Group" > > Subject: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel > > > > Hi all: > > > > For those of you in the market for altimeters, you are probably going to > > choose between Aerosonic and United. I chose Aerosonic. A year later, > > I now have a United altimeter. You may be interested in why. > > > > The short story -- Aerosonic altimeters have an internal mechanism to > > diminish needle vibration that United instruments don't have. This > > means that they also have more internal friction than does the United > > version. My initial pitot static check was fine, but a year later I had > > to troubleshoot a mode C problem. In the investigation process we did > > another pitot static check and the altimeter flunked the friction test > > -- by a lot. It was not yet two years old. What I learned from three > > instrument repair shops and one technician who does nothing but pitot > > static checks caused me to change over to the United altimeter and put > > the other on the shelf. It is not uncommon for the newer Aerosonic > > altimeters to fail the friction test, sometimes every two years. This > > results in repeated repairs and overhauls. United altimeters don't have > > the same problem. > > > > The longer story. When this happened, the tech doing the test asked me > > what type of altimeter I had (you could not tell from the front). When > > I told him it was an Aerosonic, his eyes rolled. He then told me that > > he had been having problems with their new units for several years, > > sometimes failing right out of the box and thereafter, mostly due to > > excess friction. > > > > I Fed Ex'd the instrument to Aerosonic and then called them to ask what > > was going on. After all, this unit was almost new and had failed a > > friction test. I queried them as to manufacturing problems, etc. but > > they said they were not aware of any and had received no feedback on > > this problem. They also said they had confirmed the problem, that their > > warranty was only good for one year and since the unit was out of > > warranty, I would have to pay to have it repaired. I told them I would > > be happy to pay for them to tell me why it failed and that I was > > surprised they weren't interested themselves to find out what had > > happened so early in its life. They started into the work. > > > > In the interim, I called the technician back and he gave me the numbers > > of three major instrument shops -- one in Wichita, one in Van Nuys and > > the third in Huntington Beach. The one in Wichita said they'd had this > > problem for a good 10 years and had repeatedly told the factory about > > it. He also explained to me the design feature Aerosonics had to > > address the needle vibration seen in United altimeters and how this is > > the cause of the friction problem. The other two shops said the same > > thing and that they recommended United altimeters for that reason. > > Aerosonic had told me nothing of this design matter and only that they > > had no problems reported from the field. > > > > I ordered, installed and starting flying the United instrument, which > > passed the pitot/static check fine. I called Aerosonic back and told > > them what I had learned about the design and the problems that had been > > experienced in the field. I gave them names and phone numbers. They > > stuck to their story -- no problems with their instrument. The > > president of the company later called me and said that they were going > > to fix mine under warranty and send it back, and that they would call me > > to keep me advised of what they learned. I got the altimeter back > > without the phone call. I called and left a message. No return call. > > I called again today and finally got through. All they did was > > disassemble, clean, lube and reassemble the unit and it tested fine. It > > is now sitting on my spares shelf. > > > > I have no ax to grind with Aerosonic and no kudos to toss at United. I > > have no involvement with either of them, either directly or indirectly. > > But this is what happened to me and what I learned about it. Your > > mileage may vary. > > > > Bill Marvel > > > > > > -- > > Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 > > 7617 > > P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013 > > San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334 > > > > One good deed beats 100 good intentions... > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:04 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RE: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 01:55 PM 3/6/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > >Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French >decided to quit being butt-heads. You may never play again. : ) Such contrary behavior is a proud tradition of the French. I should know. : ) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:46 PM PST US From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" Q) Why do the French plant trees along their streets??? A) So that the Germans can march in the shade! Do not archive. Everyone already knows this anyway! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Starn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" > > Was that a left handed slap attempt. Pun intended. :') KABONG > Do Not Archive > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > > > Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French > > decided to quit being butt-heads. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:09 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9-A QB fuselage --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Hal, I must have missed something. Do you mean that you feel that you get more experience building a quick build than building a slow build? Dave RV6 "slow build" flying in So.Cal do not archive kempthornes wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes > > At 08:07 PM 3/5/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Marvel > > > >In short, the QB is, in my view, a very good value. Yes it costs more but > >you will still get plenty of building experience. > > Actually, you get more experience with the QB. You do more different tasks > but less repetition. I figured I hired builder assistance for about $8 per > hour. > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > RV6-a N7HK flying! > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:05 PM PST US From: Al Mojzisik Subject: RV-List: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) --> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik FOR SALE: One French assault rifle. Condition: Never been fired but a few scratches from being dropped once. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:24 PM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" ...and a minor wear mark on the barrel from waving a piece of white cloth. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Mojzisik Subject: RV-List: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) > --> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik > > FOR SALE: > > One French assault rifle. > > Condition: > > Never been fired but a few scratches from being dropped once. > > Do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:27 PM PST US From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" Better settle in for a long siege. Do not archive Keith Hughes Capt (emeritus) USAF Denver ----- Original Message ----- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" > > Another French Horn player! Although I'm boycotting mine until the French > decided to quit being butt-heads. > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:27 PM PST US From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris? A: Don't know... it's never been attempted. Sorry. I'm sure that's a repeat. Do not archive Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter heads up > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Q) Why do the French plant trees along their streets??? > > A) So that the Germans can march in the shade! > > Do not archive. Everyone already knows this anyway! > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:29 PM PST US From: Arthur Nation Subject: Re: RV-List: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) --> RV-List message posted by: Arthur Nation On Thursday 06 March 2003 15:47, Al Mojzisik wrote: Ausgezeichnet! do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik > > FOR SALE: > > One French assault rifle. > > Condition: > > Never been fired but a few scratches from being dropped once. > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:18 PM PST US From: "Steve J Hurlbut" Subject: RV-List: crimping big terminals --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" Can someone give me a source to buy a large crimping tool for 6 and 8 AWG ring terminals (not insulated)? I tried to find a rental shop but no luck. Plus I'll need it for several other projects as well. Thank you Steve Hurlbut RV7A CFZQX Wiring ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:43 PM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: >Re: Crimping Big Terminals --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com I used my Nico-Press crimp tool. Probably someone nearby has one you can borrow. Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:12 PM PST US From: "John Starn" Subject: Re: RV-List: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" do not archive > > FOR SALE: > > > > One French assault rifle. > > > > Condition: > > > > Never been fired but a few scratches from being dropped once. > > > > Do not archive > > Rifle has never been loaded, only one bullet per Division and it's in the pocket of Pvt Barney Fife. In the french army only the men get loaded. Is that french wine or french whine to go with the cheese ? Do Not Archive KABONG ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:02 PM PST US From: Al Mojzisik Subject: RV-List: For Sale (was:Altimeter heads up) --> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." --- General George S. Patton "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." --Norman Schwartzkopf "I just love the French. They taste like chicken!" ---- Hannibal Lecter While speaking to the Hoover Institution today, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was asked this question: "Could you tell us why to date at least the Administration doesn't favor direct talks with the North Korean government? After all, we're talking with the French." The Secretary smiled and replied: "I'm not going there!" "We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it." ---- Marge Simpson An old saying: Raise your right hand if you like the French.... Raise both hands if you are French. "You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it." ---John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona "I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!" ---Jay Leno "You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He is French, people." --Conan O'Brien Do Not Archive and my apologies to any Quebec builders. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:41 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: VM Fuel Flow Sender needed --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com My Vision Microsystems P/N 3010019 fuel flow sender (for O-360-A1A carbureted use)has just been declared DOA by VM. It had been intermittent for the last 18 mos but, to quote VM every time I voiced the possibility (at OSH) that their sender could be bogus, "there must be something wrong in the rest of your wiring, these things never go bad". Ha. In the odd chance any lister has a new one for sale I would like to be made aware. My understanding is that they cost dearly from VM. Any help here? TIA -GV (RV-6A N1GV 593hrs) ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:58 PM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) "Re: RV-List: VM Fuel Flow Sender needed" (Mar 6, 10:34pm) Subject: Re: RV-List: VM Fuel Flow Sender needed --> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Hey Gary, I've only seen two failure modes on the FloScan transducers over the years. The first is wiring installation error where the power leads are reversed and the photo diode or LED are burned out. Obviously not your particular problem. The other mode of failure that I've gotten a few transducers back on is when the small rotor inside the unit becomes wedged for some reason. Almost always this is due to a piece of crap wedging the rotor and not allowing it to spin. Many times some soft or hard short bursts of blowing in one end or the other of the transducer will dislodge the problem. I had one of these just last week, as a matter of fact. A piece of tank sealer came flying out of the transducer and all of a sudden I heard the rotor spinning again! I can only remember one unit where no matter how much blowing I did, I couldn't get it spinning again. So, there's some hope. Unfortunately, VM uses the older style transducer with the high output and these are quite a bit more expensive than the newer style low output variety. Replacement cost will been in the $200-$300 range. You might consider calling FloScan and seeing about sending it in for "repair". They stand behind their transducers pretty well, and if its a totally blocked rotor, they might very well send you a replacement. Best of luck, Matt Dralle Matronics >-------------- >--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > >My Vision Microsystems P/N 3010019 fuel flow sender (for O-360-A1A carbureted >use)has just been declared DOA by VM. It had been intermittent for the last >18 mos but, to quote VM every time I voiced the possibility (at OSH) that >their sender could be bogus, "there must be something wrong in the rest of >your wiring, these things never go bad". Ha. > >In the odd chance any lister has a new one for sale I would like to be made >aware. My understanding is that they cost dearly from VM. Any help here? > >TIA > >-GV (RV-6A N1GV 593hrs) -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:44 PM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9-A QB fuselage --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes At 02:59 PM 3/6/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > >I must have missed something. Do you mean that you feel that you get more >experience building a quick build than building a slow build? I believe that it was one of Van's engineers who pointed this out to me. Having never built a slow build I am not certain. One thing I am fairly sure of is that I would not have had the patience to do the slow. It is an awesome endeavor. The QB'er forms bulkhead and ribs. He makes one of the arm rests by shaping flat aluminum. I can't recall which other items that the slow builder gets in his kit the QBer forms from raw stock . I suppose I am guilty of assuming that high repetition of a single task is not more experience. Both do the tasks that represent the most new learning, adjusting control surfaces, aligning parts, wiring, engine installation, canopy construction, fiberglass etc. The sheet metal is the easy part. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)