---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/15/03: 71 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:10 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Ronschreck99@aol.com) 2. 06:19 AM - Re: Alternative Engines (Tracy Crook) 3. 06:19 AM - RV-3 pirep from 1971 (Doug Gray) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (WALTER KERR) 5. 06:40 AM - Re: Low and Slow (WALTER KERR) 6. 06:53 AM - Re: Low and Slow (Bill Dube) 7. 06:59 AM - Re: Ammeter & MP (Bill Dube) 8. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Ed Perry) 9. 07:49 AM - Re: new kid here (Evan and Megan Johnson) 10. 08:04 AM - For sale - Matronics Fuel Scan LT (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 11. 08:04 AM - Re: Low and Slow (David Carter) 12. 08:25 AM - Parts plane on EBay (Bill Dube) 13. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Steven Eberhart) 14. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (James E. Clark) 15. 08:42 AM - Re: Parts plane on EBay (Patrick Kelley) 16. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Phil Birkelbach) 17. 08:48 AM - Re: rv related website ( Fuel Tank Site) (P M Condon) 18. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Ollie Washburn) 19. 09:04 AM - Re: Parts plane on EBay (kempthornes) 20. 09:13 AM - Matronics Fuel Scan SOLD (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 21. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Kysh) 22. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Terry Watson) 23. 09:23 AM - back from sun n fun:-) (WPAerial@aol.com) 24. 09:28 AM - Just an opinion (John Starn) 25. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Terry Watson) 26. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Sam Buchanan) 27. 10:12 AM - Re: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 28. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Kyle Boatright) 29. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Bob Hassel) 30. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight (Joshua Siler) 31. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first (Scott Bilinski) 32. 10:54 AM - OT request (Chris W) 33. 11:06 AM - LOE3 (Bill VonDane) 34. 11:11 AM - Re: Low and Slow (Scott Vanartsdalen) 35. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Doug Rozendaal) 36. 11:30 AM - Re: Low and Slow (Canyon) 37. 11:42 AM - Re: Low and Slow (Jaye and Scott Jackson) 38. 11:53 AM - RV9/9A (Peter Laurence) 39. 12:02 PM - Re: LOE3 (Brian Denk) 40. 12:05 PM - Re: RV9/9A (Knicholas2@aol.com) 41. 12:13 PM - Re: RV9/9A (Glenn Brasch) 42. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Steven Eberhart) 43. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (mstewart@qa.butler.com) 44. 12:51 PM - Re: RV-3 pirep from 1971 (Jim Oke) 45. 12:54 PM - rv9 (Peter Laurence) 46. 12:55 PM - Re: Parts plane on EBay (Bill Dube) 47. 01:40 PM - Re: Wig-wags (was: Rudder tip strobe?) (Ken Harrill) 48. 01:58 PM - Re: Low and Slow (Chris Carpenter) 49. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight (Ross Schlotthauer) 50. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: rv related website ( Fuel Tank Site) (Evan and Megan Johnson) 51. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Charlie & Tupper England) 52. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Kysh) 53. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Low and Slow (Ron Calhoun) 54. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (Fabian Lefler) 55. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (mitchf@netscape.com (Mitchell Faatz)) 56. 04:07 PM - Re: Which engine setup? (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 57. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (C. Rabaut) 58. 04:35 PM - Re: Low and Slow (Tom Gummo) 59. 05:26 PM - Re: Which engine setup? (Larry Pardue) 60. 06:26 PM - Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. (Donald Mei) 61. 06:39 PM - Re: Wig-wags (was: Rudder tip strobe?) (Bert Forero) 62. 07:06 PM - Re: Low and Slow (Wayne Reese) 63. 07:37 PM - Re: Which engine setup? (RV6 Flyer) 64. 08:11 PM - Re: OT request (Karie Daniel) 65. 08:20 PM - Re: Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. (Doug Rozendaal) 66. 08:21 PM - Re: Which engine setup? (Jerry Springer) 67. 08:27 PM - Fuel injection systems (Geoff Evans) 68. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Low and Slow (John Schnebeck) 69. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: Low and Slow (John Starn) 70. 10:45 PM - Re: Low and Slow (Meketa) 71. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 (James E. Clark) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:38 AM PST US From: Ronschreck99@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Ronschreck99@aol.com In a message dated 4/15/2003 3:09:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Russ Werner writes: > I spoke with a VERY knowledgeable source at SNF and he indicated that the > Blue Mountain EFIS One is not independent of the GPS signal for attitude. > That, if true, is a serious thing that they are not mentioning/denying. > Lancair apparently has confirmed that the unit will lose attitude reference > with loss of GPS signals. Not good. > > Maybe not a problem for some installations, but certainly for some it is. > > Russ I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) and was quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their engine monitor and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or a split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude reference is not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of Blue Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? Ron Schreck RV-8, Charlotte NC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:04 AM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternative Engines --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" Excellent Choices on both airplane and engine Jeff : ) In my admittedly biased opinion, the rotary is the only viable alternative that will give the same power *and* weight as the Lycoming. The core engine is more expensive than a small block Chevy but still a tiny fraction of a Lyc. I initially spent around $5000 FWF on my -4 back in 1994 (everything except prop). After flying it for over 8 years, many builders are finally convinced that the engine will work but few thought it performed as well as the Lyc. Hope my win in the Sun 100 race helps convince them. The turbo in a rotary powered aircraft will be a bigger challenge than most think. The engine will tolerate the boost well enough but the high EGT of the rotary is right at the upper limit of turbine inlet temperature. I suspect that turbo life will be short. Don't let me discourage you though, I'd love to be proven wrong. If the urge for more power won't go away, consider the 'more cubic inches' approach with a 20B three rotor. I'm putting one on my -8. Cost of the 20B is much higher but probably not more than a properly done turbo 13B installation. Weight with a fixed pitch prop will be very close to an IO - 360 with CS prop (max that Van's recommends for the -8 ). Happy building! Tracy Crook 13B powered RV-4 1300+ hours 20B powered RV-8 still making airplane noises while sitting in the cockpit > --> RV-List message posted by: "j tramontano" > > > Hi, > My name is Jeff and I am a future RV builder from NJ. I am a commercial > rated pilot building time and experience toward a professional aviation > career while I take distance-learning courses from Embry Riddle. I am > already chatting on the 8/8A list and am coming here for the broad spectrum. > My plans call for an RV-8 QB with some sort of alternative engine as a > major possibility. As I am 22 years old, I am going to build a budget fun > flyer as money allows and might be looking for a partner. To be honest the > plane will prob be like another girlfriend and I dont share my girlfriend > so thats prob not an option I would like. I am pretty set on the 8 with its > great fighter looks but like I said, its a budget project so if a cheaper > "lost interest" QB project comes along I would consider a 6 or 7. Right now > I am gathering information on the basics but am focusing on the engine > choice, as its the most expensive single part on the a/c. Right now I am on > the rotary turbo kick as I have been racing turbo cars for a few years now. > Sun n Fun sold me on the RV series and I am planning on taking the plunge > this summer. > > > Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:04 AM PST US From: Doug Gray Subject: RV-List: RV-3 pirep from 1971 --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepRV3.html ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:42 AM PST US From: "WALTER KERR" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" Hi Ron, Greg at GRT is a super guy that makes a great EIS unit. Have used one in my 6A for 350+ hours. I am sure he will deliver a great EFIS, but question whether it is worth 3 times the Dynon. Time will sort this out. I am currently thinking Dynon especially if their AOA works satisfactorily. Will probably back it up with something if I ever start flying IFR with my rotary powered 9A. Bernie Kerr > > I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) and was > quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their engine monitor > and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or a > split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude reference is > not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of Blue > Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? > > Ron Schreck > RV-8, Charlotte NC ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:49 AM PST US From: "WALTER KERR" Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" I agree that she was correct. Some city dudes come out our way and chase cattle with their airplanes , then the rancher takes a pot shot at me and I can't blame him. Bernie Kerr, cattle country in Fla (yep, you may not think that, but believe we are 2nd only to Texas in beef production) > Right, privledge, whatever........She was still correct about making > aviators look bad. Not cool. Use your head..... > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:02 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 06:47 PM 4/14/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: ranchspinner@webtv.net (Mary L Bradley) > >How stupid do you have to be to chase Elk for twenty minutes. That's >called harassment of wildlife. Stresses them way to much. You should >loose your flying privileges.THINK!!!! DO NOT make the flying community >look bad. Big fine if you get caught. You can get in similar trouble chasing livestock. The difference is that the rancher is likely to just shoot you instead of turning you in. : ) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:11 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Ammeter & MP --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 05:14 PM 4/14/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: JDaniel343@aol.com > >I know this has been talked about before. But has anyone come to the >conclusion that this occurs because of RF interferance? You should used shielded twisted pair ("microphone" wire) between the ammeter and the shunt. You should also keep the "naked" portion of the wire, where the leads are unshielded, as short as possible and as tight to the shunt as possible. The twisted pair and the lead dress serve to reduce the "presented area" as much as possible. This presented area acts as a loop antenna. What also might help is to pass the wire though some ferrite beads just before it enters the meter. One of those clamshell type that you see on computer power cords, etc. might work. (They make the cord look like a snake that ate a big meal.) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:15 AM PST US From: "Ed Perry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" I'm not sure that it is 3X more than the Dynon. The Flight option is $1995 and it looks like it gives almost the same info as the Dynon. I have the EIS 4000 and have only used it for about a half hour, so it is a little early for me to start singing its praises but I do know that Greg and Sandy have been more than responsive and helpful when I call with questions. When I talk my wife into it I will be rearranging my instrument panel and including the GRT version of the flight instruments. Ed Perry RV8 180/CS ----- Original Message ----- From: WALTER KERR Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" > > Hi Ron, > > Greg at GRT is a super guy that makes a great EIS unit. Have used one in my > 6A for 350+ hours. > > I am sure he will deliver a great EFIS, but question whether it is worth 3 > times the Dynon. Time will sort this out. I am currently thinking Dynon > especially if their AOA works satisfactorily. Will probably back it up with > something if I ever start flying IFR with my rotary powered 9A. > > Bernie Kerr > > > > > I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) and was > > quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their engine > monitor > > and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or a > > split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude reference > is > > not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of > Blue > > Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? > > > > Ron Schreck > > RV-8, Charlotte NC > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:01 AM PST US From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Subject: Re: RV-List: new kid here --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Check this out on Dougs page...not sure its still available but it sounds like an excellent deal on a virgin kit. http://www.b2g3.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1049938105&user=vansairf orce Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: "j tramontano" Subject: RV-List: new kid here > --> RV-List message posted by: "j tramontano" > > > Hi, > My name is Jeff and I am a future RV builder from NJ. I am a commercial > rated pilot building time and experience toward a professional aviation > career while I take distance-learning courses from Embry Riddle. I am > already chatting on the 8/8A list and am coming here for the broad spectrum. > My plans call for an RV-8 QB with some sort of alternative engine as a > major possibility. As I am 22 years old, I am going to build a budget fun > flyer as money allows and might be looking for a partner. To be honest the > plane will prob be like another girlfriend and I dont share my girlfriend > so thats prob not an option I would like. I am pretty set on the 8 with its > great fighter looks but like I said, its a budget project so if a cheaper > "lost interest" QB project comes along I would consider a 6 or 7. Right now > I am gathering information on the basics but am focusing on the engine > choice, as its the most expensive single part on the a/c. Right now I am on > the rotary turbo kick as I have been racing turbo cars for a few years now. > Sun n Fun sold me on the RV series and I am planning on taking the plunge > this summer. > > > Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:02 AM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: RV-List: For sale - Matronics Fuel Scan LT --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" For Sale: I've got a brand new - (still in the box) - Matronics Fuel Scan LT. This is a really nice piece of work, but as it turns out I'm not going to use it. Anybody want it? Retail value: $800 For sale now: $500 (credit cards OK) Andy 800 780-4115 do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:03 AM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" Better to chase ducks in the air - they go faster than elk and try to out-maneuver you. Had to slow to 80 MPH to stay behind, and then put down half flaps to stay with them in their turns. When they first noticed me camped at 6 oclock, their heads swiveled around, then they flapped faster and went into a hard right turn. They'd keep sneaking a peek over their right wing and keep on turning. I didn't chase them for 20 minutes, though. Holy gamoly, anybody knows that would over-stress them. David DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dube" Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > At 06:47 PM 4/14/2003, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: ranchspinner@webtv.net (Mary L Bradley) > > > >How stupid do you have to be to chase Elk for twenty minutes. That's > >called harassment of wildlife. Stresses them way to much. You should > >loose your flying privileges.THINK!!!! DO NOT make the flying community > >look bad. > > Big fine if you get caught. > > You can get in similar trouble chasing livestock. The difference > is that the rancher is likely to just shoot you instead of turning you in. : > ) > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:06 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: Parts plane on EBay --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube This looks like it would make a goods parts plane. Price is certainly right. If you live nearby, it might be ideal. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2411417702 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:06 AM PST US From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart So far I have been very impressed with the attitude and professional way both Dynon and Grand Rapids have handled the entire process of bringing new technology to general aviation. I have been less than impressed with Blue Mountain. The market place will show who is on the right track. Just as a FYI, included here is a post from Blue Mountain on the Europa list. Form your own opinion: =============== This posting is in response to a number of postings that show that there is a substantial lack of information and understanding about AHRS systems and the technology behind them. Comparisons are being made by individuals who are not qualified to make those comparisons, which is then misleading others. Unfortunately for BMA, once a vendor is able to show a computer screen that can display an electronic ADI working on the bench, there is a general assumption, by the prospective customer, that the work is complete. The differences in how these ADIs are implemented is substantial. On the bench, two $80 electronic spirit levels could supply enough information to create what looks like a working ADI. In the air this approach would clearly fail. Experience and technical know how really pay off when an EFIS system is put through a real series of flight tests. Grand Rapids display was nice but it was only a computerized demo, nothing more than that. There was no AHRS box anywhere to be found at Sun and Fun! It was nothing more than a self running set of screen shots not too much unlike a PowerPoint presentation. I think it is unreasonable for BMA to be compared to the Grand Rapids unit that, at the present time, is a long way from producing or even showing their first real working system. Using any variant of Windows for this type of application simply highlights the fact that the system is not targeted to serious, IFR flight conditions. To my knowledge, there are no other EFIS systems based upon any version of Windows for very good reasons. If we have come across as arrogant, as some have suggested, you have my apology. It's probably out of frustration when caparisons are made between apples and oranges. Dynon has released its version of our EFIS/Lite, however after they explained how they have implemented their solution and what they have not implemented, it's clear why they only recommend the unit (see their own web site) for VFR! Kirk Hammersmith at Lancair is ready to test the Dynon unit anytime they will provide one. So far they have not. BMA completed testing of the EFIS/One at Lancair earlier this year (see Kirk Hammersmith's posting on the Lancair list). This testing put us up against standards that Lancair uses to test systems costing 3 to 4 times our price. The EFIS/One had to perform to within a .25 degree for all maneuvers and never go divergent. In other words, you could recover the aircraft from unusual attitudes wearing foggles and with only the use of the ADI display. Seems like a simple and obvious requirement of an ADI but this is extremely difficult to achieve. In the end, time will tell with the Dynon and Grand Rapids units when they have flight test data from real customers on production units. I'm sure Lancair can help them create a better product, just as they did BMA. On a different subject, BMA's warranty is incorrectly stated as being US only. It is a worldwide, 1 year warranty. General Manager Malcolm Thomson Blue Mountain Avionics. =============== Ronschreck99@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Ronschreck99@aol.com > > In a message dated 4/15/2003 3:09:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Russ Werner > writes: > > >>I spoke with a VERY knowledgeable source at SNF and he indicated that the >> Blue Mountain EFIS One is not independent of the GPS signal for attitude. >> That, if true, is a serious thing that they are not mentioning/denying. >> Lancair apparently has confirmed that the unit will lose attitude reference >> with loss of GPS signals. Not good. >> >> Maybe not a problem for some installations, but certainly for some it is. >> >> Russ >> > > I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) and was > quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their engine monitor > and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or a > split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude reference is > not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of Blue > Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? > > Ron Schreck > RV-8, Charlotte NC > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:25 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <<>> > > I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies > (GRT) and was > quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their > engine monitor > and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or a > split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude > reference is > not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than > those of Blue > Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? Have spoken at length with them (much before and during SnF). I am impressed with what it is *supposed* to do. They have been listening to the feedback for those things that are not locked down. For example it originally would NOT fit into 6.25". For some of us this is critical. Originally the displays were DIFFERENT. Now, according to Greg you will be able to swap the display used for "engine monitoring" not only logically but physically for the one used as EFIS. The point here is if you are off on a long trip and a display dies (probably not likely), you could unplug and swap. The concept they have seems to be a very good one. It is *different* from the Dynon in my opinion. Not better or worse, just different. I also looked at the Dynon (again) and like it. I remain on their list and if I had the panel already done and had a 3 1/8" hole I could use, I would probably be using it. The GRT Horizon also has the ability to show a basic nav page. I understand that they **might** improve on that later as it is very rudumentary right now. This is probably a good idea for right now as they are focussing on getting the basics (AHRS/air data computer part) really right first along with a proper representation of the engine data. I am monitoring this rather closely. I had planned to use the ACS 2002 which seems to be a mighty fine engine monitor. But if I use the GRT EFIS, it will make more sense for me to use GRT engine monitor instead. ... also looked at the Blue Mountain over the last couple of years or so. Looks good overall but is not 6.25" wide and that is important to me. Also the Lite does not fit in an existing instrument hole so that is problematic for me. Great people, great product (it appears) but not the form factor I need. Ahhhh .... choices, choices, choices. :-) James > > Ron Schreck > RV-8, Charlotte NC > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:30 AM PST US From: "Patrick Kelley" Subject: RE: RV-List: Parts plane on EBay --> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" Dunno if the price is right... what's the reserve? Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Fuselage parts being painted -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: Parts plane on EBay --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube This looks like it would make a goods parts plane. Price is certainly right. If you live nearby, it might be ideal. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2411417702 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:29 AM PST US From: "Phil Birkelbach" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" The GRT is $5995 if you want the air data computer and the AHRS. The $1995 is for a single display only, the $2495 version will display all the same information but you would have to hook it up to the $5995 version that you already have. If you already have an EIS the $1995 flight display will connect to it and you'll have all the information that is in the EIS. For what it is worth I have a Dynon on order. The plan is that when I get ready to make my RV-7 an IFR bird I'll buy one of these GRT units and use my Dynon as the backup. I intend to use the EIS-4000 as my engine monitor right up front so I'll have the fancy engine gauges as soon as I hook up the Horizon EFIS. The GRT unit adds a moving map display that the Dynon does not have, as well as the ability to display the engine data from the EIS-4/6/9000. Give Greg a few years and, I bet, the thing will have a terrain database and synthetic vision. It's really gonna be cool!!!! Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Perry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" > > I'm not sure that it is 3X more than the Dynon. The Flight option is $1995 > and it looks like it gives almost the same info as the Dynon. I have the > EIS 4000 and have only used it for about a half hour, so it is a little > early for me to start singing its praises but I do know that Greg and Sandy > have been more than responsive and helpful when I call with questions. When > I talk my wife into it I will be rearranging my instrument panel and > including the GRT version of the flight instruments. > Ed Perry > RV8 180/CS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: WALTER KERR > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > Greg at GRT is a super guy that makes a great EIS unit. Have used one in > my > > 6A for 350+ hours. > > > > I am sure he will deliver a great EFIS, but question whether it is worth 3 > > times the Dynon. Time will sort this out. I am currently thinking Dynon > > especially if their AOA works satisfactorily. Will probably back it up > with > > something if I ever start flying IFR with my rotary powered 9A. > > > > Bernie Kerr > > > > > > > > I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) and > was > > > quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their engine > > monitor > > > and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or > a > > > split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude > reference > > is > > > not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of > > Blue > > > Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? > > > > > > Ron Schreck > > > RV-8, Charlotte NC > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:33 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: RV-List: Re: rv related website ( Fuel Tank Site) --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon Be sure this gets into the Yeller pages under the proper title, not "rv related site". I am sure lots of builders would appresiate your services... rv related website Time: 11:11:09 AM PST US From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Subject: RV-List: rv related website --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" For those of you who have not yet foud it, I now have a website. All of the information you would typically have to call to get about my tank building service can now be downloaded. It is a relativly new deal for me so it may yet have some holes in it...all help finding them will be graciously accepted. Please take a look, especially those of you getting close to needing tanks or repairs. www.evansaviationproducts.com As always, feel free to email or call with questions or comments. Thanks a bunch...Evan Johnson evmeg@snowcrest.net (530)247-0375 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:46 AM PST US From: "Ollie Washburn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronschreck99@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 Ron---------I am so impressed by their monitors that I am taking out my individual Micro Vision system and installing their eng monitor (i want more panel space) and I should be #4 or 5 on their order list for the EFIS.It is the best I have seen for the price. Ollie----6A---Central Fl. I spoke at length with the folks at Grand Rapid Technologies (GRT) and was quite impressed with their EFIS. It also incorporates their engine monitor and a GPS driven map. Any of the displays can be put on the screen or a split screen allows two of the three to be displayed. Attitude reference is not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of Blue Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? Ron Schreck RV-8, Charlotte NC ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:15 AM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: Parts plane on EBay --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes It is an auction. You can't really tell what the price is till it sells. The reserve hasn't even been met yet so even if there are no other bids, it won't sell at this price. The engine alone would be worth way more. Put in a bid! hal kempthorne do not archive At 09:27 AM 4/15/2003 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > This looks like it would make a goods parts plane. Price is > certainly >right. If you live nearby, it might be ideal. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2411417702 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:53 AM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: RV-List: Matronics Fuel Scan SOLD --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" The Fuel Scan is sold That was quick. Thank you to everyone who was interested. Andy > For Sale: > > I've got a brand new - (still in the box) - Matronics Fuel Scan LT. This > is a really nice piece of work, but as it turns out I'm not going to use it. > Anybody want it? > > Retail value: $800 > For sale now: $500 (credit cards OK) > > Andy > 800 780-4115 > > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:14 AM PST US From: Kysh Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh As Steven Eberhart was saying: > --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart > > So far I have been very impressed with the attitude and professional way > both Dynon and Grand Rapids have handled the entire process of bringing > new technology to general aviation. I have been less than impressed > with Blue Mountain. The market place will show who is on the right track. > > first real working system. Using any variant of Windows for this type of > > application simply highlights the fact that the system is not targeted > > to serious, IFR flight conditions. To my knowledge, there are no other > > EFIS systems based upon any version of Windows for very good reasons. If > > we have come across as arrogant, as some have suggested, you have my > > apology. It's probably out of frustration when caparisons are made > > between apples and oranges. Wow. Just from my own personal experience (With embedded programming, systems administration and safety critical applications), this piece here would completely turn me away from the GR suite- Using Windows in any sort of aerial navigation (Or any other safety-critical) capacity is insane! As I heard an avionics engineer once say, "It puts a whole new meaning to the 'Blue Screen of Death'". Judging solely from this letter, I would be inclined to be on the side of BMA, given no other information. Other than a general lack of professional courtesy towards competitors (Which, by his comments, might be a valid stance), I don't see anything overtly wrong with his statement. As you said, we will see what the market says. We'll find out who initially is better at a good sales pitch and giving warm fuzzies, and then as he suggests, down the road we'll find out who has the better product. Having never used any of the products, I can only refer to Steven's comments and the message he forwarded, so take my own comments with a grain of salt; I intend merely to show that conclusions divergent from Steven's can be reached from the information he passed on. -Kysh do not archive -- | 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying | | CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr | | 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang | | Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ | | KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham | | Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ | ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:26 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" If the Blue Mountain EFIS/one display were much bigger, it wouldn't fit in an RV-8 panel. You must be referring to the EFIS lite. Terry RV-8A Do not archive .... Attitude reference is not GPS dependent and the display is considerably larger than those of Blue Mountain or Dynan. Anybody else impressed with these guys at GRT? Ron Schreck RV-8, Charlotte NC ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:22 AM PST US From: WPAerial@aol.com Subject: RV-List: back from sun n fun:-) --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com Got back to Oregon from sun n fun yesterday. Spent a week in the keys. Put just under 6000 miles on my rv6a that I first flew in dec. no problems. what a great time. The weather treated us just right coming and going to our surprise, thank you. On the way we were seeing ground speeds of 238 mph. two days travel time each way. Lot of nice people every where. Jerry Wilken Albany Oergon N699WP 90.2 hours rv6a ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:52 AM PST US From: "John Starn" Subject: RV-List: Just an opinion --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" Just went to CH-701 web site to make sure I was not speaking out of turn or from a bad memory. Compare any RV with CH-701 is like comparing HRII to the crates the parts were shipped in. (Have not seen the CH crates). BUT you can buy a kid the very best P-51D model to play with and some kids will play with the box. Do Not Archive. Think I saw an early version of the CH at Bakersfield BBQ fly-in a coupla years ago. "in the eye of the beholder", "only a mother could.....", "to each his own" all came to mind. KABONG ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:12 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" The terrain database and synthetic vision IS great. Go to the bluemountainavionics.com and have a look. Terry Do not archive The GRT unit adds a moving map display that the Dynon does not have, as well as the ability to display the engine data from the EIS-4/6/9000. Give Greg a few years and, I bet, the thing will have a terrain database and synthetic vision. It's really gonna be cool!!!! Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage http://www.myrv7.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:19 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Kysh wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh > > As Steven Eberhart was saying: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart > > > > So far I have been very impressed with the attitude and professional way > > both Dynon and Grand Rapids have handled the entire process of bringing > > new technology to general aviation. I have been less than impressed > > with Blue Mountain. The market place will show who is on the right track. > > > > first real working system. Using any variant of Windows for this type of > > > application simply highlights the fact that the system is not targeted > > > to serious, IFR flight conditions. To my knowledge, there are no other > > > EFIS systems based upon any version of Windows for very good reasons. If > > > we have come across as arrogant, as some have suggested, you have my > > > apology. It's probably out of frustration when caparisons are made > > > between apples and oranges. > > Wow. Just from my own personal experience (With embedded programming, systems > administration and safety critical applications), this piece here would completely > turn me away from the GR suite- Using Windows in any sort of aerial navigation > (Or any other safety-critical) capacity is insane! As I heard an avionics engineer > once say, "It puts a whole new meaning to the 'Blue Screen of Death'". > > Judging solely from this letter, I would be inclined to be on the side of BMA, > given no other information. Other than a general lack of professional courtesy > towards competitors (Which, by his comments, might be a valid stance), I don't > see anything overtly wrong with his statement. It would be very naive and foolish to state support for BMA, and criticize the Grand Rapids unit, based on the Europa list letter, or any one letter for that matter. The Grand Rapids unit I saw at Sun-N-Fun had a functional (on the bench at least) AHRS platform and was not Windows based. I was told the code for the display and platform was developed by Grand Rapids personnel. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:15 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: RE: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Sounds like the engine is pulling close to rated power (2700 rpm@28" MP) , or put another way, how can it turn that rpm with that MP and NOT be producing rated HP, so maybe the question should be "Why won't it climb?" This one will be instructive to learn the answer to.... Jerry Cochran RV6a/fwf ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:42 AM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > > Kysh wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh > > > > As Steven Eberhart was saying: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart > > > > > > So far I have been very impressed with the attitude and professional way > > > both Dynon and Grand Rapids have handled the entire process of bringing > > > new technology to general aviation. I have been less than impressed > > > with Blue Mountain. The market place will show who is on the right track. > > > > > > first real working system. Using any variant of Windows for this type of > > > > application simply highlights the fact that the system is not targeted > > > > to serious, IFR flight conditions. To my knowledge, there are no other > > > > EFIS systems based upon any version of Windows for very good reasons. If > > > > we have come across as arrogant, as some have suggested, you have my > > > > apology. It's probably out of frustration when caparisons are made > > > > between apples and oranges. > > > > Wow. Just from my own personal experience (With embedded programming, systems > > administration and safety critical applications), this piece here would completely > > turn me away from the GR suite- Using Windows in any sort of aerial navigation > > (Or any other safety-critical) capacity is insane! As I heard an avionics engineer > > once say, "It puts a whole new meaning to the 'Blue Screen of Death'". > > > > Judging solely from this letter, I would be inclined to be on the side of BMA, > > given no other information. Other than a general lack of professional courtesy > > towards competitors (Which, by his comments, might be a valid stance), I don't > > see anything overtly wrong with his statement. > > > It would be very naive and foolish to state support for BMA, and > criticize the Grand Rapids unit, based on the Europa list letter, or any > one letter for that matter. > > The Grand Rapids unit I saw at Sun-N-Fun had a functional (on the bench > at least) AHRS platform and was not Windows based. I was told the code > for the display and platform was developed by Grand Rapids personnel. > > Sam Buchanan > In this vein, it is a bad idea to listen to Vendor "A"'s assessment of Vendor "B"'s competitive product. In the EFIS area, the 3 or 4 players are all still in a roll-out stage (and in fact, may still be in a development phase). I doubt that any of them have had the time to do an in-depth analysis of their competitor's products... KB ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:31 AM PST US From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" While not generally a supporter of MS - I have to say that the old Blue Screen of Death argument just isn't valid with today's OS systems. I've really liked BMA since I first saw them @ Osh 2001. However I certainly wouldn't put down a system just because it's OS base is windows. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Kysh wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh > > As Steven Eberhart was saying: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart > > > > So far I have been very impressed with the attitude and professional way > > both Dynon and Grand Rapids have handled the entire process of bringing > > new technology to general aviation. I have been less than impressed > > with Blue Mountain. The market place will show who is on the right track. > > > > first real working system. Using any variant of Windows for this type of > > > application simply highlights the fact that the system is not targeted > > > to serious, IFR flight conditions. To my knowledge, there are no other > > > EFIS systems based upon any version of Windows for very good reasons. If > > > we have come across as arrogant, as some have suggested, you have my > > > apology. It's probably out of frustration when caparisons are made > > > between apples and oranges. > > Wow. Just from my own personal experience (With embedded programming, systems > administration and safety critical applications), this piece here would completely > turn me away from the GR suite- Using Windows in any sort of aerial navigation > (Or any other safety-critical) capacity is insane! As I heard an avionics engineer > once say, "It puts a whole new meaning to the 'Blue Screen of Death'". > > Judging solely from this letter, I would be inclined to be on the side of BMA, > given no other information. Other than a general lack of professional courtesy > towards competitors (Which, by his comments, might be a valid stance), I don't > see anything overtly wrong with his statement. It would be very naive and foolish to state support for BMA, and criticize the Grand Rapids unit, based on the Europa list letter, or any one letter for that matter. The Grand Rapids unit I saw at Sun-N-Fun had a functional (on the bench at least) AHRS platform and was not Windows based. I was told the code for the display and platform was developed by Grand Rapids personnel. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:21 AM PST US From: "Joshua Siler" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight --> RV-List message posted by: "Joshua Siler" Propeller problems? Josh Siler RV-7A emp Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry2DT@aol.com --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Sounds like the engine is pulling close to rated power (2700 rpm@28" MP) , or put another way, how can it turn that rpm with that MP and NOT be producing rated HP, so maybe the question should be "Why won't it climb?" This one will be instructive to learn the answer to.... Jerry Cochran RV6a/fwf ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:33 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Ya know, I am sure this is not the case but I have seen this exact thing several times on radio controlled airplanes, the engine sounds just great but no speed or climb. Its always the same thing..........The prop is on backwards. As said above, I am sure this is not the case or even possible, but reminded me of my RC aircraft flying. At 01:10 PM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > >Sounds like the engine is pulling close to rated power (2700 rpm@28" MP) , or >put another way, how can it turn that rpm with that MP and NOT be producing >rated HP, so maybe the question should be "Why won't it climb?" This one will >be instructive to learn the answer to.... > >Jerry Cochran >RV6a/fwf > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:24 AM PST US From: Chris W RV-list Subject: RV-List: OT request --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W I am looking to contact the owner/manager of 2OK2 - TWIN LAKES AIRPORT but the phone number I find online doesn't seem to be correct. I thought I heard of an RV-8 owner on the list that had his plane out there maybe he knows the right number. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw@programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:01 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" "vansairforce" Subject: RV-List: LOE3 --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Where's everyone staying in Las Cruces this year? -Bill ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:59 AM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen Not many Elk in my area to chase. But I have been known to chase a coyote or two. The only people that seem to get upset about that is the Fish and Game folks. Makes them coyotes harder to shoot from their Super-Cubs because the coyotes hear the aiplane noise and scatter! Bill Dube wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 06:47 PM 4/14/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: ranchspinner@webtv.net (Mary L Bradley) > >How stupid do you have to be to chase Elk for twenty minutes. That's >called harassment of wildlife. Stresses them way to much. You should >loose your flying privileges.THINK!!!! DO NOT make the flying community >look bad. Big fine if you get caught. You can get in similar trouble chasing livestock. The difference is that the rancher is likely to just shoot you instead of turning you in. : ) -- For God says, "At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you." Indeed, God is ready to help you right now. Today is the day of salvation. 2 Corinthians 6:2, New Living Translation --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:19 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" I spoke with the Dynon Folks yesterday, I asked if there was anyone who I could speak with that was flying one, they said someone in Kansas City, Paul Strattman????, has one in a -6. They have shipped around 30 it sounded like, and orders are 60 to 90 days out, depending on how "quickly they work out manufacturing bugs." They also said that the heading function was not working in the units they are shipping right now and that it was a "nasty problem." I want one of these really bad for the pink panther. If it works good maybe I will keep the panther instead of selling it, but I dont want to pay, with $ & pain, for the development of a new product. All of these devices are the greatest thing since GPS and I am anxiously waiting to fly (& buy) one. Tailwinds, Doug ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:35 AM PST US From: Canyon Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: Canyon Scott Vanartsdalen wrote: >2 Corinthians 6:2 --- Naw, I'd bet there are many more than 2 Mississippians that are 6' 2"... do not archive ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:51 AM PST US From: Jaye and Scott Jackson Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: Jaye and Scott Jackson harder to shoot from their Super-Cubs because the coyotes hear the aiplane noise and scatter! > Reminds me of an old, crude joke about why Scotsmen had to wear kilts around their sheep.... > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:23 AM PST US From: Peter Laurence Subject: RV-List: RV9/9A --> RV-List message posted by: Peter Laurence Any RV9/9A builders on the list. I just purchased the empennage kit. Peter Laurence ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:01 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: LOE3 --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >Subject: RV-List: LOE3 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:02:40 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" > >Where's everyone staying in Las Cruces this year? > >-Bill > Most likely at the Hampton Inn. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 338 hrs. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:18 PM PST US From: Knicholas2@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9/9A --> RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2@aol.com In a message dated 4/15/2003 11:54:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dr.laurence@mbdi.org writes: << Any RV9/9A builders on the list. >> Yup! Lots of us! Welcome to the family. I am in the final stages of construction on my RV9A and hope to be flying this summer. It is a long process but LOTS of fun! Kim Nicholas RV9A Seattle DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:13 PM PST US From: "Glenn Brasch" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV9/9A --> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" Yep! And there is a bunch on the RV-9 list too!! ;) Glenn in AZ -9A Emp. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Laurence" Subject: RV-List: RV9/9A > --> RV-List message posted by: Peter Laurence > > Any RV9/9A builders on the list. > > I just purchased the empennage kit. > > > Peter Laurence > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:16 PM PST US From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart Sam Buchanan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > > Kysh wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Kysh >> >>As Steven Eberhart was saying: >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart >>> >>>So far I have been very impressed with the attitude and professional way >>>both Dynon and Grand Rapids have handled the entire process of bringing >>>new technology to general aviation. I have been less than impressed >>>with Blue Mountain. The market place will show who is on the right track. [snip] > > It would be very naive and foolish to state support for BMA, and > criticize the Grand Rapids unit, based on the Europa list letter, or any > one letter for that matter. > > The Grand Rapids unit I saw at Sun-N-Fun had a functional (on the bench > at least) AHRS platform and was not Windows based. I was told the code > for the display and platform was developed by Grand Rapids personnel. > > Sam Buchanan I should have gone ahead and voiced my concerns rather than just posting the e-mail from Blue Mountain. I was less than impressed by the way the Blue Mountain representative was attacking Dynon and Grand Rapids. If you go back and read my original post, Blue Mountain doesn't say that the Grand Rapids unit is a Windows based system. They just talked about being able to quickly prototype something to show at a trade show and let the reader make the assumption that it was using windows. Just to get myself in more hot water here is a quote from Grand Rapid's web site: "Even a momentary interruption in processing can jeopardize the integrity of AHRs data. That is why the Horizon EFIS utilizes an processor dedicated solely to performing AHRs sensor measurement and processing. This processor does not have the overhead of a large operating system, nor any tasks unrelated to the calculation of attitude, heading, and related data. Its designed purely to provide high integrity, high reliability, flight-critical data." I will talk to Grand Rapids and try to find out just what they are using. Assuming that Grand Rapids is successful in bring their system to market it will be front and center in my RV-7A's panel. That is assuming I ever get my wings finished. Steve Eberhart RV-7A - working on wings (seems like forever) N14SE reserved ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:16 PM PST US From: mstewart@qa.butler.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.53 --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com Yes, Paul Stratman had it at SnF flying, and went over open water to Key West with the Team RV Guys for 3 days. You may send Paul an e-mail off his website http://home.kc.rr.com/pauljana/ Paul has made posts on the list on his progress. Check here. Do a search by name and you'll find him. Paul does not impress easily. You can see from his posts that so far so good. Mike Stewart Do Not Archive Snip could speak with that was flying one, they said someone in Kansas City, Paul Strattman????, has one in a -6. They have shipped around 30 it sounded Snip ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:04 PM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-3 pirep from 1971 --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke Somewhere around I have my copy of the 1973 Air Progress that Budd Davisson's RV-3 pirep originally appeared in. This pirep eventually persuaded me to build one and it turned out to be a great little airplane that performs as well as Budd says. Now 30 years later I have an RV-6A doing taxi tests - hope it feels the same - I expect it will. Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB RV-3 CFIZM (flying) RV-6A C-GKGZ (taxing) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Gray" Subject: RV-List: RV-3 pirep from 1971 > --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray > > http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepRV3.html > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:42 PM PST US From: Peter Laurence Subject: RV-List: rv9 --> RV-List message posted by: Peter Laurence Hello all, I just purchased a RV9/9A empennage kit. Anyone building the 9 ? Peter ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:26 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RE: RV-List: Parts plane on EBay --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 09:39 AM 4/15/2003, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" > >Dunno if the price is right... what's the reserve? Your guess is as good as mine. If I were to take a WAG, I would guess $10k. I ignore reserves. I just put in a bid that I am willing to pay. If it doesn't make the reserve, then I guess the reserve was too high. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:35 PM PST US From: Ken Harrill Subject: RE: RV-List: Wig-wags (was: Rudder tip strobe?) --> RV-List message posted by: Ken Harrill I have one of Bob Haan's Wig-Wag units on my RV-6. I am very pleased with it after one year and 180 hours. It seems to be well made and rugged. Bob provided excellent support. I did have noise in my electrical system caused by the unit's "keep warm" circuit, but one of the features of the unit is that the "keep warm" circuit can easily be defeated. The alternate flashing lights are "cool", but I am not sure how effective they are for collision avoidance. If I were building another aircraft, I am not sure I would bother installing a wig-wag. Probably more effective would be one of the new hi-intensity landing lights, left "on" all the time. Ken Harrill Columbia, SC RV-6, 180 hours -----Original Message----- From: Norman [mailto:nhunger@sprint.ca] Subject: Re: RV-List: Wig-wags (was: Rudder tip strobe?) --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" > I have read about wig wags for landing lights. They look cool, and > I thought about it, but it seemed to me to be one more thing to break or go > wrong. > > I have had the landing light fail on a moonless night and I would > not wish to repeat that experience. I bought Bob Haan's Wig Wag flasher. It looks very robust. The whole thing is encased in a bock of epoxy within three sides of aluminum with just the wires sticking out. It includes two wires that can be hooked up to panel LED indicators that will let you know if a landing light bulb fails. Very cool set up. I'm not flying yet but I have been told that Bob's flasher makes no electronic noise. I have heard that some of the cheaper police wig wag units create clicking in the headset. Wouldn't want that.... Norman Hunger RV6A Delta BC Do not archive ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:58 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow From: Chris Carpenter --> RV-List message posted by: Chris Carpenter As a wildlife biologist, permit me to explain why chasing Wildlife is frowned upon. Delete now if not interested or not willing to try and understand, no flames intended, etc. Animals spend their spring and summer recovering from and preparing for winter. If they spend their energy reserves being chased, they stand a greater chance of dying during winter. Since we live in heated houses with a constant source of food and water, we can hardly imagine how difficult a winter can be. 20 minutes., no big deal, lighten up, you say. OK, but now imagine 100,000 other ultralight pilots are also unaware of the impacts of their chasing. So the animals get chased once, maybe twice a day, not only by aircraft but by domestic dogs (also housed and fed during winter), snowmobiles, motorbikes, etc. etc. I am NOT anti-gun, anti-hunting, nor anti freedom of any kind. In fact I would thoroughly enjoy flying low and slow (avoiding wildlife of course). I just think we ought to try to preserve the creatures that are less intelligent than us. The impact of the overwhelming number of humans, all demanding the freedom to do whatever without knowing or caring about the impacts to the other creatures on this planet, seems terribly short-sighted and egocentric. This is not intended to inflame, or provoke a response, Just stating the facts, in the faint hope that eyes will be opened. Human are presently causing a greater rate of extinction of species than has ever occurred before on earth, including the massive extinction of the dinosaurs. Oh... and by the way, since my Nomex is on.... ... nah,,, it's just not worth it. Chris Carpenter Vancouver, B.C. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:25 PM PST US From: Ross Schlotthauer Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Lasar and/or fuel injection problems on first flight --> RV-List message posted by: Ross Schlotthauer He probably doesn't even have the prop on. Imagine how fast that thing will be with a prop. --- Scott Bilinski wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > > Ya know, I am sure this is not the case but I have > seen this exact thing > several times on radio controlled airplanes, the > engine sounds just great > but no speed or climb. Its always the same > thing..........The prop is on > backwards. As said above, I am sure this is not the > case or even possible, > but reminded me of my RC aircraft flying. > > At 01:10 PM 4/15/03 -0400, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > > >Sounds like the engine is pulling close to rated > power (2700 rpm@28" MP) , or > >put another way, how can it turn that rpm with that > MP and NOT be producing > >rated HP, so maybe the question should be "Why > won't it climb?" This one will > >be instructive to learn the answer to.... > > > >Jerry Cochran > >RV6a/fwf > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:06 PM PST US From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: rv related website ( Fuel Tank Site) --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" I thought I was in there....guess I better check. Thanks for looking. Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: "P M Condon" Subject: RV-List: Re: rv related website ( Fuel Tank Site) > --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon > > Be sure this gets into the Yeller pages under the proper title, not "rv > related site". I am sure lots of builders would appresiate your > services... > > > rv related website > > Time: 11:11:09 AM PST US > From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" > Subject: RV-List: rv related website > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" > > > For those of you who have not yet foud it, I now have a website. All of > the > information you would typically have to call to get about my tank > building > service can now be downloaded. It is a relativly new deal for me so it > may > yet have some holes in it...all help finding them will be graciously > accepted. Please take a look, especially those of you getting close to > needing tanks or repairs. www.evansaviationproducts.com As always, > feel > free to email or call with questions or comments. > > Thanks a bunch...Evan Johnson > evmeg@snowcrest.net > (530)247-0375 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:32 PM PST US From: Charlie & Tupper England Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England Bob Hassel wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" > >While not generally a supporter of MS - I have to say that the old Blue >Screen of Death argument just isn't valid with today's OS systems. > >I've really liked BMA since I first saw them @ Osh 2001. However I >certainly wouldn't put down a system just because it's OS base is windows. > >Bob > Your experience with Mr Gates is much better than mine. I suspect that your experience is unique. Charlie win95 winME win2000 winXP-PRO Contemplating the $200.00 Walmart Lindows (Linux) PC as an upgrade :-) ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:33 PM PST US From: Kysh Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh As Sam Buchanan was saying: > > Judging solely from this letter, I would be inclined to be on the side of BM > > given no other information. Other than a general lack of professional courte > > towards competitors (Which, by his comments, might be a valid stance), I don > > see anything overtly wrong with his statement. > > It would be very naive and foolish to state support for BMA, and > criticize the Grand Rapids unit, based on the Europa list letter, or any > one letter for that matter. Hence why I said, "Judging solely from this letter..." and "...given no other information.". Ergo, I was stating my opinion on the effect the letter would have on those with no other knowledge. It most certainly does not speak for itself in condemning Blue Mountain Avionics, which was implied by the poster. -Kysh do not archive -- | 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying | | CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr | | 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang | | Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ | | KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham | | Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ | ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:33 PM PST US From: "Ron Calhoun" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" Well, you opened my eyes. I never thought of that. Do not archive. Ron RV4 Taxing ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:04 PM PST US From: "Fabian Lefler" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" Doug, I have serial number 37. I called Dynon today and asked when I would be receiving mine since the estimated shipping date (Mar-28) came and went. Gillian told me that I had at least 15 orders ahead of mine. So, assuming that the orders leaving the factory match the serial numbers; then, only 22 have been shipped as early this morning. I am not really upset about the delay but they held off taking orders for so long, why didn't they just simply waited a little longer to work out the rest of the bugs. At any rate, I can't wait to get mine and the price is hard to beat if it works as advertized. DNA Fabian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" > > I spoke with the Dynon Folks yesterday, I asked if there was anyone who I > could speak with that was flying one, they said someone in Kansas City, Paul > Strattman????, has one in a -6. They have shipped around 30 it sounded > like, and orders are 60 to 90 days out, depending on how "quickly they work > out manufacturing bugs." > > They also said that the heading function was not working in the units they > are shipping right now and that it was a "nasty problem." I want one of > these really bad for the pink panther. If it works good maybe I will keep > the panther instead of selling it, but I dont want to pay, with $ & pain, > for the development of a new product. > > All of these devices are the greatest thing since GPS and I am anxiously > waiting to fly (& buy) one. > > Tailwinds, > Doug > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:03 PM PST US From: mitchf@netscape.com (Mitchell Faatz) Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: mitchf@netscape.com (Mitchell Faatz) Your comparing your 'open' machine (which gets software and who knows what crap downloaded daily) to a closed machine that leaves the shop in a known/tested stated and stays in that state. That's how IS shops can run NT and approach 99.x% uptime, the box has known software on it, and it isn't allowed to change. Now, if you have poorly written software running on that closed system, you'll still have problems. I was at a local avionics shop for an EAA meeting last week and saw their MX-20 reboot after running for about 45 minutes. A better argument about Windows vs an RTOS is 1) time to boot and 2) real time support, for which Windows is inadequate for *primary* flight displays. Neither of those are necessary for *supporting/secondary* flight displays (moving maps, engine monitors). Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA Charlie & Tupper England wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England > >Bob Hassel wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" >> >>While not generally a supporter of MS - I have to say that the old Blue >>Screen of Death argument just isn't valid with today's OS systems. >> >>I've really liked BMA since I first saw them @ Osh 2001. However I >>certainly wouldn't put down a system just because it's OS base is windows. >> >>Bob >> >> >> >Your experience with Mr Gates is much better than mine. I suspect that >your experience is unique. > >Charlie >win95 >winME >win2000 >winXP-PRO >Contemplating the $200.00 Walmart Lindows (Linux) PC as an upgrade >:-) > > > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:05 PM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Which engine setup? --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Hello Bobby, From my experience with lower horsepower engines and various propeller combinations, the O-320 with a constant speed propeller should be the better choice than a 360 with a fixed pitch prop. You could loose about 10 mph at the top end, but your take off roll and climb rate would be much better. At the same cruise speed, your fuel consumption should be slightly lower. (The extra 10 mph with the 360 engine should cost at least 1 gph, or more, to obtain.) Jim Ayers ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:05 PM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" Fabian, If you don't mind me asking (in this nice "private" setting)... what did you pay for yours O.T.D. (out the door)? Thanks, Chuck do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Fabian Lefler Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > --> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" > > Doug, > > I have serial number 37. I called Dynon today and asked when I would be > receiving mine since the estimated shipping date (Mar-28) came and went. > Gillian told me that I had at least 15 orders ahead of mine. So, assuming > that the orders leaving the factory match the serial numbers; then, only 22 > have been shipped as early this morning. > > I am not really upset about the delay but they held off taking orders for so > long, why didn't they just simply waited a little longer to work out the > rest of the bugs. At any rate, I can't wait to get mine and the price is > hard to beat if it works as advertized. > > DNA > > Fabian > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Rozendaal" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" > > > > I spoke with the Dynon Folks yesterday, I asked if there was anyone who I > > could speak with that was flying one, they said someone in Kansas City, > Paul > > Strattman????, has one in a -6. They have shipped around 30 it sounded > > like, and orders are 60 to 90 days out, depending on how "quickly they > work > > out manufacturing bugs." > > > > They also said that the heading function was not working in the units they > > are shipping right now and that it was a "nasty problem." I want one of > > these really bad for the pink panther. If it works good maybe I will > keep > > the panther instead of selling it, but I dont want to pay, with $ & pain, > > for the development of a new product. > > > > All of these devices are the greatest thing since GPS and I am anxiously > > waiting to fly (& buy) one. > > > > Tailwinds, > > Doug > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:09 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" do not archive - please MY OPINION PLEASE DELETE NOW IF NOT INTERESTED Low and Slow - Get a helicopter. :-( Low and Fast is the way to go. Get a RV with a big engine or a Harmon Rocket II. :-) I just love going out into the desert (staying 500 feet away from people, places, and things) and flying as low as I can, as fast as I can. It puts a smile on my face. I sure miss 100 foot low level flights in the F-4G which we would do at 480 knots ground speed. However on some missions, if we had a little extra fuel and the proper airspace, we would push it up and do high 600 to low 700 knots on the deck. It makes your heart race, the hair on your head stand up, put wood in your .... (you know but the list is G rated and should be). The bottom line, Low and Slow or Low and Fast, stop by APV (I am in the phone book) and lets tell stories and hangar fly. There is room in the pilot world for both. I just happen to be one who loves FAST. Tom Gummo "GummiBear" Retired F-4G Wild Weasel Instructor Pilot Prez of EAA Chapter 768 Teller of tall tails (some maybe true) Pilot and owner of N561FS Harmon Rocket II Apple Valley, CA Apple Valley Airport - Building #6 Hangar #1 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:05 PM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Which engine setup? --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > Hello Bobby, > > From my experience with lower horsepower engines and various propeller > combinations, the O-320 with a constant speed propeller should be the better > choice than a 360 with a fixed pitch prop. > You could loose about 10 mph at the top end, but your take off roll and climb > rate would be much better. At the same cruise speed, your fuel consumption > should be slightly lower. (The extra 10 mph with the 360 engine should cost > at least 1 gph, or more, to obtain.) > Jim, Hmmm. I don't have the specific fuel consumption figures at hand, but am quite sure the O-360 is better than, at least, the 150 HP O-320. I have quite a bit of experience flying formation in my O-360 powered airplane with O-320 powered RV's. So far my fuel burn has been lower every single time. If somebody does have access to those figures I would like to see them. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:10 PM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" I missed the last days RV list, my email was full, so I may behind but I had a couple of ideas. First of all, if you have a constant speed prop, manifold pressure and rpm are not an entirely accurate means of measuring real power output. To illustrate my point, try this. (don't really do it, but run it through in your head) Pull the plugs from 2 cylinders. Now push the prop control and the throttle forward with the engine running on 2 cylinders. You will see. 28" of manifold pressure and 2700 rpm. This happens because the prop flattens to maintain the requested RPM, regardless of the actual power provided. (of course within the limits of the stops set on the prop) Another example. Dive your airplane to Vne. Now pull the mixture to idle cutoff. Adjust pitch to maintain Vne. Now, push the throttle and prop all the way in, while keeping mixture at idle cut off. What you will now see is an RPM reading of 2000 to 2500 rpm and a manifold pressure of 28 inches. But how much power is your engine making? Common sense says that with it not running it is making ZERO power. So here you have an engine at 2500 rpm (or any other rpm, I'm just trying to make a point) and 28" of manifold pressure that is not making power. Admittedly this is not as good as my spark plug example final 3rd example is a scenario of Carb icing. MP stays the same and rpm stays the same, but power gradually drops off. Manifold pressure and rpm only give actual power if the engine is running correctly. A constant speed prop masks potential power losses by adjusting to maintain a given rpm. If you are getting 2700 rpm and 28" MP with a fixed pitch prop, then the engine IS making reasonable power. One thing that I have not seen anyone suggest is to check CHT and EGT to make sure that all the cylinders are "working" and also as an indication of an excessively rich/lean condition. While this is sound theory, most of us have heard anecdotes where cylinders have "go bad"in a non destructive way. The pilots first indication of a problem is usually that at normal cruise manifold pressure and rpm, the climb/cruise figures are less. Fuel flow is a good indicator on a carbureted engine, but again, my example above without spark plugs will give a "normal" fuel flow reading on a fuel injected engine. (on a carbureted engine, the flow would be less, because the engine has to "suck" the fuel up out of the float bowl versus having it "blown" into intake. Re the flaps down a bit theory, when I was learning to fly my RV, I did a really bonehead move and took off with full flaps. I was climbing at nearly 1000 ft per minute. It wasn't until I pushed the nose down to pick up speed that I noticed the flaps were down. Bottom line, with full flaps the RV will still climb very well. 5 degrees of deflection will not make your plane into a 500 fpm sloth. If this RV has a constant speed prop, I'm betting that it is running very rich. Just a hunch. If it has a fixed pitch prop then the engine IS making reasonable power, and assuming the instruments are reasonably accurate, I am baffled. Don Mei 3B9 - Chester, CT > Don Mei > Network Manager > Town of Enfield, CT > 860-253-6360 > dmei@enfield.org > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:59 PM PST US From: "Bert Forero" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wig-wags (was: Rudder tip strobe?) --> RV-List message posted by: "Bert Forero" Ken: I know by a fact that just the lights, is not enough; you bet controllers will see you much sooner with a alternating flashing system. This is true when is hayzy in summer time, nothing to say when there is light rain.. You can prove this, by going to the airport,and see the difference.. I have.. Hope this will help some one too.. Bert rv6a. Do Not archive Sign up for Internet Service under $10 dollars a month, at http://isp.BlueLight.com ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:41 PM PST US From: "Wayne Reese" Subject: RE: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Reese" What happened to the people in the gondola? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Meketa Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" Mary It is not his fault. It is a guy thing and can not be explained. In fact I chased down a stray balloon over San Antonio this weekend. Cruising at 2500 feet msl and 170 knots the first one went by before any action could be taken. Going on the offensive a formation of several more were spotted up ahead. Zeroed in on one that was slightly out of position and downed him with the prop on the first pass. I quickly exited the area before his friends could get my "N" number. ATC never knew what happened. I am so bad. "DO NOT ARCHIVE" George Meketa > How stupid do you have to be to chase Elk for twenty minutes. That's > called harassment of wildlife. Stresses them way to much. You should > loose your flying privileges.THINK!!!! DO NOT make the flying community > look bad. > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:02 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Which engine setup? --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Larry: Do not have exact numbers but here is what I do know. I fly with a lot of other RVs. When I fly LEAD at 2300 RPM with 160 or 180 RVs, we all are very close to the same fuel burn. (Except for the 180 HP RV-4 who will burn one gallon per hour less.) If I bump it up to 2,500, the 180 burns 1 to 1.5 GPH less based on what we both buy at a fuel stop. The 160 Fixed Pitch will burn more than I do at that RPM. It has been awhile since I have flown with a 160 FP so do not remember the exact number. Usually will let the 160 FP set the pace as I can match it easier than it can match me. I want to say that when the 160 FP sets the pase at 2,500 RPM, I burn the same to 1/2 gallon per hour less. When I set the pace, I burn about a gallon per hour less. Have only done a little flying with a fixed pitch 150. It was slower and burned more fuel at any speed. The 160 CS will out run the 180 fixed pitch at sea level if the 180 keeps his RPM at redlind and does not go over. The 160 CS will out accelerate and out climb the 180 FP at any altitude below 80 KIAS. It is a pretty even match at 80 to 100 KIAS. The 180 FP will out climb or out run me above 100 KIAS. Above 8,000 feet, I cannot match the top speed of the 180 FP. The 180 FP cannot slow down or go down hill as fast as I can. The 180 will go over airframe redline at idle power with the nose downhill. The CS will fall out of the sky at 4,000 FPM, idle power, all engine numbers in the GREEN under airframe redline. (180 KIAS, 4,000 FPM DOWN, about 45 degrees nose down.) It takes more fuel to make more horsepower. You need more horsepower for more speed. More fuel means that it costs more to go faster. Hope this adds some light to the subject. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,262 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Which engine setup? --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > Hello Bobby, > > From my experience with lower horsepower engines and various propeller > combinations, the O-320 with a constant speed propeller should be the better > choice than a 360 with a fixed pitch prop. > You could loose about 10 mph at the top end, but your take off roll and climb > rate would be much better. At the same cruise speed, your fuel consumption > should be slightly lower. (The extra 10 mph with the 360 engine should cost > at least 1 gph, or more, to obtain.) > Jim, Hmmm. I don't have the specific fuel consumption figures at hand, but am quite sure the O-360 is better than, at least, the 150 HP O-320. I have quite a bit of experience flying formation in my O-360 powered airplane with O-320 powered RV's. So far my fuel burn has been lower every single time. If somebody does have access to those figures I would like to see them. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:14 PM PST US From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: Re: RV-List: OT request --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" Have you tried either of these contacts? Ownership: Privately-owned Owner: PILOTS HAVEN AIRPORT INC 13812 CHANDELLE DR NEWALLA, OK 74857 Phone 405-799-0096 Manager: HAROLD HOLLAND, PRES 13812 CHANDELLE DR NEWALLA, OK 74857 Phone 405-799-0096 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris W" Subject: RV-List: OT request > --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W > > I am looking to contact the owner/manager of 2OK2 - TWIN LAKES AIRPORT > but the phone number I find online doesn't seem to be correct. I > thought I heard of an RV-8 owner on the list that had his plane out > there maybe he knows the right number. > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 > chrisw@programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > "They that can give up essential liberty > to obtain a little temporary safety > deserve neither liberty nor safety." > -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania > > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:24 PM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" Sorry Don, but I disagree on one point. Carb ice causes MP to drop. BTDT. It blocks the venturi and has the same effect as closing the throttle, which reduces Manifold Pressure. The rest of your post is "spot on." Criusing along in the B-25 when you pull the mixture, you will see a momentary drop in Propellor RPM and then the engine will stabilize with normal readings no all gauges. (no EGT and no Fuel flow) Over time the temps will fall off, but initially everything is green as grass, but the airspeed falls off real fast pushing a windmilling propellor. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal > --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" SNIP > > final 3rd example is a scenario of Carb icing. MP stays the same and rpm > stays the same, but power gradually drops off. > > ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:51 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Which engine setup? --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer RV6 Flyer wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" > > Larry: > > Do not have exact numbers but here is what I do know. > > I fly with a lot of other RVs. When I fly LEAD at 2300 RPM with 160 or 180 > RVs, we all are very close to the same fuel burn. (Except for the 180 HP > RV-4 who will burn one gallon per hour less.) If I bump it up to 2,500, the > 180 burns 1 to 1.5 GPH less based on what we both buy at a fuel stop. The > 160 Fixed Pitch will burn more than I do at that RPM. It has been awhile > since I have flown with a 160 FP so do not remember the exact number. > Usually will let the 160 FP set the pace as I can match it easier than it > can match me. I want to say that when the 160 FP sets the pase at 2,500 > RPM, I burn the same to 1/2 gallon per hour less. When I set the pace, I > burn about a gallon per hour less. > > Have only done a little flying with a fixed pitch 150. It was slower and > burned more fuel at any speed. > > The 160 CS will out run the 180 fixed pitch at sea level if the 180 keeps > his RPM at redlind and does not go over. Gary, not what I experience, at sea level a 160hp CS well have a hard time staying with a FP 180. As we climb to a higher altitude then it begins to turn around as the CS becomes more efficent at higher altitudes. This has been my experience with many many hours flying next to a 160HP CS. > The 160 CS will out accelerate and out climb the 180 FP at any > altitude below 80 KIAS. My experience has been that if we take off in formation and go to best angle of climb then the 160hp CS can out climb me in my 180hp FP. If we take off in formation and stay at best rate of climb that allows me to build up more rpms therefore devloping more hp which inturn lets me accelerate faster. > It is a pretty even > match at 80 to 100 KIAS. The 180 FP will out climb or out run me above 100 > KIAS. Above 8,000 feet, I cannot match the top speed of the 180 FP. > > The 180 FP cannot slow down or go down hill as fast as I can. The 180 will > go over airframe redline at idle power with the nose downhill. The CS will > fall out of the sky at 4,000 FPM, idle power, all engine numbers in the > GREEN under airframe redline. (180 KIAS, 4,000 FPM DOWN, about 45 degrees > nose down.) This is very true, a CS makes a good speed brake. Jerry do not archive > > It takes more fuel to make more horsepower. You need more horsepower for > more speed. More fuel means that it costs more to go faster. > Hope this adds some light to the subject. > > Gary A. Sobek ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:09 PM PST US From: Geoff Evans Subject: RV-List: Fuel injection systems --> RV-List message posted by: Geoff Evans Can someone briefly compare and contrast the Bendix and Airflow Performance fuel injection systems? The Airflow Performance website is sorely lacking in the information department, and I'm looking for something to help me decide which system to use. Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 QB fuselage http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:06 PM PST US From: "John Schnebeck" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "John Schnebeck" Tom gives a great ride- I still dream about going low and fast and straight up. Still planning on doing a Rocket - Thanks for a great demo Ride Great bunch of guys around the breakfast table at APV.... John S - Seattle WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > do not archive - please > > MY OPINION PLEASE DELETE NOW IF NOT INTERESTED > > Low and Slow - Get a helicopter. :-( > Low and Fast is the way to go. > Get a RV with a big engine or a Harmon Rocket II. :-) > I just love going out into the desert (staying 500 feet away from people, > places, and things) and flying as low as I can, as fast as I can. It puts a > smile on my face. > > I sure miss 100 foot low level flights in the F-4G which we would do at 480 > knots ground speed. However on some missions, if we had a little extra fuel > and the proper airspace, we would push it up and do high 600 to low 700 > knots on the deck. It makes your heart race, the hair on your head stand > up, put wood in your .... (you know but the list is G rated and should be). > > The bottom line, Low and Slow or Low and Fast, stop by APV (I am in the > phone book) and lets tell stories and hangar fly. There is room in the > pilot world for both. I just happen to be one who loves FAST. > > Tom Gummo > "GummiBear" > Retired F-4G Wild Weasel Instructor Pilot > Prez of EAA Chapter 768 > Teller of tall tails (some maybe true) > Pilot and owner of N561FS Harmon Rocket II > Apple Valley, CA > Apple Valley Airport - Building #6 Hangar #1 > > ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:49 PM PST US From: "John Starn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" Oh, please don't say things like that... we had a problem during building and had to recline the front seat slightly to get Gummibears head to fit inside the canopy. (F-4 drivers sit bolt upright) If you keep saying things like that I'll have to modify the seat again. Right now I'm trying to get the rear seat pedals and power controls installed. 8+) Do Not Archive KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schnebeck" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Schnebeck" > > Tom gives a great ride- I still dream about going low and fast and straight > up. > > Still planning on doing a Rocket - Thanks for a great demo Ride > > Great bunch of guys around the breakfast table at APV.... > > John S - Seattle WA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Gummo" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Re: Low and Slow > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > > > do not archive - please > > > > MY OPINION PLEASE DELETE NOW IF NOT INTERESTED > > > > Low and Slow - Get a helicopter. :-( > > Low and Fast is the way to go. > > Get a RV with a big engine or a Harmon Rocket II. :-) > > I just love going out into the desert (staying 500 feet away from people, > > places, and things) and flying as low as I can, as fast as I can. It puts > a > > smile on my face. > > > > I sure miss 100 foot low level flights in the F-4G which we would do at > 480 > > knots ground speed. However on some missions, if we had a little extra > fuel > > and the proper airspace, we would push it up and do high 600 to low 700 > > knots on the deck. It makes your heart race, the hair on your head stand > > up, put wood in your .... (you know but the list is G rated and should > be). > > > > The bottom line, Low and Slow or Low and Fast, stop by APV (I am in the > > phone book) and lets tell stories and hangar fly. There is room in the > > pilot world for both. I just happen to be one who loves FAST. > > > > Tom Gummo > > "GummiBear" > > Retired F-4G Wild Weasel Instructor Pilot > > Prez of EAA Chapter 768 > > Teller of tall tails (some maybe true) > > Pilot and owner of N561FS Harmon Rocket II > > Apple Valley, CA > > Apple Valley Airport - Building #6 Hangar #1 ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:36 PM PST US From: "Meketa" Subject: Re: RV-List: Low and Slow --> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" Hello Yall I really did run down the small passengerless helium ballon this weekend. Would have gone back for more, being such a rare target rich environment, but was over downtown and ATC was watching. I had seen them when flying in the past and once turned around to get one in the Cessna 140 but could not find it. After that it became my personal mission to rid the skies of any strays. All in the name of national defense. DO NOT ARCHIVE George Meketa, RV8, 296.1 hours > > What happened to the people in the gondola? > > Mary > > It is not his fault. It is a guy thing and can not be explained. > > In fact I chased down a stray balloon over San Antonio this weekend. > Cruising at 2500 feet msl and 170 knots the first one went by before > any action could be taken. Going on the offensive a formation of several > more were spotted up ahead. Zeroed in on one that was slightly out > of position and downed him with the prop on the first pass. I quickly > exited the area before his friends could get my "N" number. ATC never > knew what happened. > > I am so bad. > > "DO NOT ARCHIVE" > > George Meketa > > > > How stupid do you have to be to chase Elk for twenty minutes. That's > > called harassment of wildlife. Stresses them way to much. You should > > loose your flying privileges.THINK!!!! DO NOT make the flying > community > > look bad. > > ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:48 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Following up on Mike's comment about Paul not being impressed easily. Having met and talked with Paul on a couple of occasions (TeamRV clinic etc.) I had that impression of him. When I pushed the Dynon people about how it **appeared** to me that the unit would "gray out" due to the RV roll rate that I tried to **simulate** by hand, they told me that some fellow name Paul Stratman had been flying one and had reported that it was solid ... as in did not get confused. They did not know that I knew Paul. Later that day (at SnF) when I saw Paul I asked him about it. He had good things to say. And from what I can tell, he pushed it pretty hard on the maneuvers. Maybe he will report something here, but having heard that from him, moved the Dynon folks up a couple of notches in my book. They really are packing a LOT into a small space. I wonder if it might not eventually need a fan to keep it cool and to lengthen its life. Wouldn't be a big deal though. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > mstewart@qa.butler.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 3:18 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 > > > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Yes, > Paul Stratman had it at SnF flying, and went over open water to Key West > with the Team RV Guys for 3 days. You may send Paul an e-mail off his > website > http://home.kc.rr.com/pauljana/ > > Paul has made posts on the list on his progress. Check here. > Do a search by name and you'll find him. > Paul does not impress easily. You can see from his posts that so far so > good. > > > Mike Stewart > Do Not Archive > > > Snip > could speak with that was flying one, they said someone in Kansas > City, Paul > Strattman????, has one in a -6. They have shipped around 30 it sounded > Snip > >