Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch (Jerry Calvert)
2. 06:30 AM - Vernatherm (Ronschreck99@aol.com)
3. 06:47 AM - Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help (P M Condon)
4. 07:12 AM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. (Boyd C. Braem)
5. 07:43 AM - Canopy locks (Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov)
6. 08:31 AM - Re: Vernatherm (Denis Walsh)
7. 08:49 AM - Re: Canopy locks (kempthornes)
8. 08:51 AM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. (Vanremog@aol.com)
9. 09:01 AM - Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security (George McNutt)
10. 09:17 AM - Re: Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help (Bill Dube)
11. 09:17 AM - Re: Canopy locks (Chris W)
12. 09:41 AM - Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security (John Helms)
13. 09:55 AM - Re: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch (Dan Checkoway)
14. 09:59 AM - Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security (LarryRobertHelming)
15. 10:06 AM - AlternatorPulleyPosition (DAVID REEL)
16. 10:08 AM - Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security (Bill Dube)
17. 10:18 AM - MAG Timing Article on Internet/AVWEB (P M Condon)
18. 10:22 AM - Alt cooling air required? (Scott Bilinski)
19. 11:05 AM - Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor power. (HCRV6@aol.com)
20. 11:39 AM - Re: Fuel Senders (czechsix@juno.com)
21. 11:40 AM - Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor (Canyon)
22. 11:59 AM - Re: AlternatorPulleyPosition (Denis Walsh)
23. 12:16 PM - Re: Vernatherm (Ed Bundy)
24. 12:22 PM - Re: AlternatorPulleyPosition (Ed Bundy)
25. 12:25 PM - Re: Alt cooling air required? (Laird Owens)
26. 12:51 PM - RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? (Gilbert Alexander)
27. 02:09 PM - Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security (George McNutt)
28. 02:43 PM - Re: Alt cooling air required? (Randy Lervold)
29. 03:32 PM - Re: VOR prognosis? (Richard Lundin)
30. 03:53 PM - Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor (Michael McGee)
31. 03:53 PM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently (Michael McGee)
32. 04:06 PM - Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor (Canyon)
33. 04:08 PM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently (Michael McGee)
34. 04:16 PM - Re: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? (Dan Checkoway)
35. 04:25 PM - Re: Alt cooling air required? (Michael McGee)
36. 04:30 PM - Re : Alt cooling air required ? (Martin Hone)
37. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? (Gilbert Alexander)
38. 04:44 PM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. (Sam Buchanan)
39. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? (Dan Checkoway)
40. 04:49 PM - Re: Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help (Tracy Crook)
41. 05:39 PM - Re: Re : Alt cooling air required ? (Doug Weiler)
42. 06:42 PM - Re: VOR prognosis? (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
43. 06:55 PM - Re: Alt cooling air required? (Elsa & Henry)
44. 07:24 PM - RV-6A FOR SALE (DNA) (RV6 Flyer)
45. 07:49 PM - Sad News... (Bill VonDane)
46. 08:11 PM - Re: Alt cooling air required? (Vanremog@aol.com)
47. 08:40 PM - Everett-area Project? (Tedd McHenry)
48. 08:53 PM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently (Michael McGee)
49. 09:19 PM - Re: VOR prognosis? (thomas a. sargent)
50. 09:48 PM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor (Jerry Springer)
51. 10:01 PM - RV-6 canopy cover (Jaye and Scott Jackson)
52. 10:38 PM - HS 710 and HS 714 drilling ()
53. 11:33 PM - Re: HS 710 and HS 714 drilling (Dan Checkoway)
54. 11:37 PM - Re: HS 710 and HS 714 drilling (Jim Jewell)
55. 11:52 PM - Re: Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Dan,
I use ND Industries Vibra-Tite. It will not crack the canopy like other
thread lockers will. What ever you end up using, test it on a scrap piece
of canopy by drilling a hole and put a dab of locker by the hole. Even the
fumes from some lockers will create spider web cracks all around the screw
hole.
Here is the url for info on it:
http://www.adhesivesmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__I
tem/0,2101,3601,00.html
If I remember correctly, I ordered it online from MSC Industrial Supply.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 N296JC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Does anybody know where you can get Nylok True Blue spray-on patch, or
> something equivalent?
>
> http://www.nylok.com/blue.html
>
> I'm looking for something like this to apply to the #6 screws holding my
> rear window down to the roll bar (tip-up canopy) so they don't come loose
> (don't even say Loct...). I'm definitely open to other suggestions.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (finish)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ronschreck99@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2003 3:00:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, unknown lister
writes:
>
> Do you have a door on your cooler to completely shut off all cooling air
in
> flight? If you don't, then even the small (9 row) cooler will overcool at
> current WA temperatures. This time of year in CA I have my oil cooler
door
> completely closed to maintain oil temp above 170 deg F in flight. If your
> oil temperature probe is in the normal position, the oil cooler is
> completely
> blocked off and your oil is still not hot enough (>180 deg F) in flight,
> then
> consider this.
>
> The vernatherm (please forgive the obvious comparisons to male sexual
> response) starts out retracted and stays retracted until its activation
> temperature is reached. Oil bypasses the cooler circuit. If the critical
> temperature is never reached then it just stays retracted, but oil
continues
>
> to flow thru the filter and to the engine. In this case the filter would
be
>
> warm and the oil cooler, well...cooler.
>
> If the vernatherm is broken in the retracted condition, this condition
would
>
> persist. If on the other hand, the vernatherm is broken in the extended
> position (I wish) the oil would always be diverted to go thru the cooler
and
>
> if cooling air continued thru the cooler then you may not get the oil warm
> enough until summer.
>
> If you suspect the vernatherm is defective, pull it out and examine it.
You
>
> will see if it is retracted or extended. If extended at room temp it is
> broken, if retracted then it may be okay. You can test it for activation
> temperature by warming in a pan of oil on a hot plate (do this outside or
> your wife will dope slap you). It should extend at some temperature
around
> 170 (??) deg F IIRC. If not, it is bogus.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV 596hrs)
>
Pardon my ignorance, but this is the first I have heard of this "Vernatherm".
I was reading about all the neat doors that listers have fabricated to close
off the oil cooler when the OAT gets chilly, now I find that this here
"Vernatherm" causes the oil to bypass the cooling circuit when the oil is
below a certain threshold temperature. If that is the case why do we need
these %$#
% doors?
Ron Schreck
RV-8, Charlotte NC
Message 3
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| Subject: | Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Got a real odd bug with my Terra Comm Tx-760D Digital (newer orange led
Terra/Trimble radio). With the RV shutdown, inside a metal hanger with
all the doors closed I can hear and x-mit to the airplanes in the
pattern with no problem. With the engine on and taxing around, still no
problem for about 3 or 4 minutes THEN, after 4 or so minutes of engine
runup/taxiing - when I x-mit I sound like Charlie Brown's parents
(Garbled over modulated and not intelligible). Any ideas on what would
cause this behavior? Four or five cold starts, over a two week period
showed the same bug and time to show the bug (not antenna related)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
How about 32 (high) - 14 (low) degrees.
Michael McGee wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
>
> I suspect (and I'm not a CS expert) that in a climbing RV making normal
> power a CS prop is a long ways from the stops. Maybe 5 or 6 degree off the
> stops. Max pitch change is something like 11 or 12 degrees. Now you've
> got me curious...
>
> Who's got the pitch range of a Hartzell set up for an RV?
>
> Mike
>
> At 21:59 2003-04-20 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
> >
> >I guess it is just me, it still does not add up because a prop at low
> >pitch to the stops and with that kind of rpm it should be climbing like
> >everything. UNLESS!! the prop also was not setup right and the flat
> >pitch was so flat there was not any thrust being produced.
> >
> >See ya around,
> >
> >Jerry
> >do not archive
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
Sorry for the late reply to this, but I've been out of town and just read the
list. I'm building an 8A for the first time so I'm new to the RV stuff, but I'm
very familiar with security issues and crime (a little opinionated too). And
I just have to say something.
I read with interest the entries from Larry Pardue, Scott Bilinski and Kyle
Boatwright last week concerning the issue of locking your canopy or
not. I understand your reasoning that leaving the canopy unlocked will
save you some time and money if your electronics are stolen. The thief
leaves the canopy and airframe undamaged, but gets the avionics.
Insurance pays either way, but you save the time and trouble of
rebuilding the airframe. Your reasoning, however, is flawed.
The scenario MAY play out that way, and you feel like you got a break
that the scumbag didn't damage your canopy. But what about when you
replace the avionics? MANY times these turds will wait for you to
replace the stolen equipment with insurance money, then come back and
steal the new equipment too. And even if they don't come back
themselves, they spread the word to their dirtbag friends about the
"easy" time they had ripping you off. Maybe the friends come and rip
you off. Again, insurance pays off for you, but one criminal act
perpetrated another.
But besides all of that, why make it easy for these mopes? Most crimes
are crimes of opportunity. It is easier to find a plane with the canopy
unlocked than to try to break into the canopy AND steal the avionics.
And if they have to break into the canopy or defeat the lock, just maybe
they will make enough noise or it will make them stay at the scene long
enough to draw attention to themselves. Maybe the ###hole got away
just because he wasn't delayed by a lock. Maybe he continues to rip of
other RVs because yours was easy.
I hate to draw this analogy, and I hope the ladies will forgive me - but
your thinking is kinda like a woman facing a rapist. She may choose to
not resist and do as told in the hope that the rapist will "ONLY" rape her
and not beat or kill her. Or she may fight, kick, scream and do what she
can to ward him off. In doing so she risks enraging the rapist or she may
scare him off and remain relatively unscathed. There are proponents of
both courses of action, and each person makes their own choice. My
wife Terri once faced a guy coming in her kitchen window in the middle
of the night. She scared the guy off before he ever touched her, but she
vows never to be a compliant victim. She WILL kick and scream (and
shoot).
My point here is - don't make it any easier for these scumbags than you
have to. Each person has to be involved and do what you can to stop
and/or prevent crime. You HAVE to be involved! I'm a firm believer in
AOPA's "Airport Watch" program. I'm a firm believer in Neighborhood
Watches - I've seen them work. Risk your canopy but know you won't
be an easy victim. And if you catch one of these guys in the act - beat
the HELL out of him. Civilians can do that, I can't.
BTW - I'm working on my canopy (love that fiberglass) and I've been
racking my thought processes on a canopy lock. I will have one.
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@attbi.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ronschreck99@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2003 3:00:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, unknown lister
> writes:
>
>> >
>> > Do you have a door on your cooler to completely shut off all cooling air
> in
>> > flight? If you don't, then even the small (9 row) cooler will overcool at
>> > current WA temperatures. This time of year in CA I have my oil cooler
> door
>> > completely closed to maintain oil temp above 170 deg F in flight. If your
>> > oil temperature probe is in the normal position, the oil cooler is
>> > completely
>> > blocked off and your oil is still not hot enough (>180 deg F) in flight,
>> > then
>> > consider this.
>> >
>> > The vernatherm (please forgive the obvious comparisons to male sexual
>> > response) starts out retracted and stays retracted until its activation
>> > temperature is reached. Oil bypasses the cooler circuit. If the critical
>> > temperature is never reached then it just stays retracted, but oil
> continues
>> >
>> > to flow thru the filter and to the engine. In this case the filter would
> be
>> >
>> > warm and the oil cooler, well...cooler.
>> >
>> > If the vernatherm is broken in the retracted condition, this condition
> would
>> >
>> > persist. If on the other hand, the vernatherm is broken in the extended
>> > position (I wish) the oil would always be diverted to go thru the cooler
> and
>> >
>> > if cooling air continued thru the cooler then you may not get the oil warm
>> > enough until summer.
>> >
>> > If you suspect the vernatherm is defective, pull it out and examine it.
> You
>> >
>> > will see if it is retracted or extended. If extended at room temp it is
>> > broken, if retracted then it may be okay. You can test it for activation
>> > temperature by warming in a pan of oil on a hot plate (do this outside or
>> > your wife will dope slap you). It should extend at some temperature
> around
>> > 170 (??) deg F IIRC. If not, it is bogus.
>> >
>> > -GV (RV-6A N1GV 596hrs)
>> >
> Pardon my ignorance, but this is the first I have heard of this "Vernatherm".
> I was reading about all the neat doors that listers have fabricated to close
> off the oil cooler when the OAT gets chilly, now I find that this here
> "Vernatherm" causes the oil to bypass the cooling circuit when the oil is
> below a certain threshold temperature. If that is the case why do we need
> these %$#
> % doors?
>
> Ron Schreck
> RV-8, Charlotte NC
>
>
Good question.
Short answer is because they =B3work=B2. Most users report they can increase
oil temp by 10 to 15 degrees on really cold days. By closing off airflow
through the cooler
Longer answer. The vernatherm does not shut off all flow through the
cooler. It always allows some oil flow even when the engine is stone cold.
In RVs even this small flow is sometimes enough to keep the oil from
reaching optimum temp in cool air at 200MPH.
Denis
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy locks |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Something to ask your insurance man: if the canopy is not lockable, will
they pay for the losses?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 4/20/2003 10:37:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jmpcrftr@teleport.com writes:
> I suspect (and I'm not a CS expert) that in a climbing RV making normal
> power a CS prop is a long ways from the stops. Maybe 5 or 6 degree off the
>
> stops. Max pitch change is something like 11 or 12 degrees. Now you've
> got me curious...
>
> Who's got the pitch range of a Hartzell set up for an RV?
High speed stop is set at 12 deg and low speed stop is around 37 deg. This
is set at 30" radius (83% of span for a 72" diameter prop). I had to
readjust the high speed stop on mine to a little higher angle (probably 14
deg) to prevent engine overspeed. Now mine never gets above 2675 (as checked
after flight on the VM1000 flight data min/max collection function).
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 598hrs)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Canopy locks/Avionics security |
--> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy locks
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
I understand your reasoning that leaving the canopy unlocked will
save you some time and money if your electronics are stolen. The thief
leaves the canopy and airframe undamaged, but gets the avionics.
Insurance pays either way, but you save the time and trouble of
rebuilding the airframe.
------------------snip---------------------
One more point on avionics security, - on some of the newer avionics such as
my UPSAT SL-60 GPS/Comm you enter your name and address into the units
database and it is displayed each time the unit is started.
This is a theft deterent that cannot be erased and is a point to consider
when making your avionics purchase.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@boulder.nist.gov>
Perhaps your voltage regulator is set too high.
13 volts. Just after starting, the voltage will be 13.5 volts or less. Once
the battery comes back up to charge, it is possible to drive it over 15
volts, perhaps as high as 16 volts.
Check the voltage. If over 14.7 volts when the battery is fully
charged, you need to turn the regulator down.
At 07:48 AM 4/21/2003, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>Got a real odd bug with my Terra Comm Tx-760D Digital (newer orange led
>Terra/Trimble radio). With the RV shutdown, inside a metal hanger with
>all the doors closed I can hear and x-mit to the airplanes in the
>pattern with no problem. With the engine on and taxing around, still no
>problem for about 3 or 4 minutes THEN, after 4 or so minutes of engine
>runup/taxiing - when I x-mit I sound like Charlie Brown's parents
>(Garbled over modulated and not intelligible).
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy locks |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <chrisw3@cox.net>
How about a more creative aproach. Get 3 old 12 gauge shot guns. Render
them unusable by removing the fireing pin and maybe melt some lead into the
chamber or whatever. Just make sure they still appear normal and functional
from the outside. Then mount them together so one points one way and the
other point 45 degrees to either side. Run some string from the trigers
through some pullies up under the instrament panel or some where out of
site. Mount them on a flat base so you can set them on the front seat and
one will be pointing straight up and the other two out the sides. They
should think twice about atempting a break in then. And if the think they
can maybe break the canopy from a safe distance and set them off safely,
then when they don't go of the will be worried that if they go to inspect
they might go off then. The fact that they never go off will make them more
nervous. At the very least it will slow them down. Even if they think they
can set them off from a safe distance so they won't get hurt they will be
worried about the blast of 3 shot guns attracting attention. As a nice
touch you could rig up a vibration sensing alarm that would play the famous
line by Clint Eastwood, "Go ahead, make my day!"
Just my crazy idea, and yes I know I have too much time on my hands, but I
will be able to afford the RV kit before too long and you won't have to
listen to my crazy ideas becuase I will be busy building :)
and of course do not archive
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I just got asked if the presence or absence of a canopy lock would affect
whether or not insurance would cover a theft claim. My answer would be no.
Even if the lock was present but left unlocked they would likely pay (with
the notable exception of the direct writer).
If it were me, I would not only include a lock, but would make sure it was
visible. It's the same question of a steering wheel lock in a car. It is a
visible deterrent. The thief will see it, and (hopefully) move on to an
aircraft that will be easier to get into and that he'll spend less time and
noise getting into. If he must break the canopy, the likelyhood of being
heard exists. The thief might appear to be the owner to someone unaware if
he just walked up and popped open the canopy. It might go unnoticed by
passers-by.
$.02
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
Pleasure and Business Branch
----- Original Message -----
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy locks/Avionics security
--> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy locks
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
I understand your reasoning that leaving the canopy unlocked will
save you some time and money if your electronics are stolen. The thief
leaves the canopy and airframe undamaged, but gets the avionics.
Insurance pays either way, but you save the time and trouble of
rebuilding the airframe.
------------------snip---------------------
One more point on avionics security, - on some of the newer avionics such as
my UPSAT SL-60 GPS/Comm you enter your name and address into the units
database and it is displayed each time the unit is started.
This is a theft deterent that cannot be erased and is a point to consider
when making your avionics purchase.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Thanks. Yesterday morning I ordered an ounce of Vibra-Tite Formula 3 from
McMaster Carr, where it's a buck more expensive...didn't know about the
better price at MSC at that point. 8-)
This stuff is gonna come in handy in lots of spots!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
>
> Dan,
>
> I use ND Industries Vibra-Tite. It will not crack the canopy like other
> thread lockers will. What ever you end up using, test it on a scrap piece
> of canopy by drilling a hole and put a dab of locker by the hole. Even
the
> fumes from some lockers will create spider web cracks all around the screw
> hole.
>
> Here is the url for info on it:
>
http://www.adhesivesmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__I
> tem/0,2101,3601,00.html
>
> If I remember correctly, I ordered it online from MSC Industrial Supply.
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok
> RV6 N296JC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>; <SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Nylok True Blue spray-on patch
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >
> > Does anybody know where you can get Nylok True Blue spray-on patch, or
> > something equivalent?
> >
> > http://www.nylok.com/blue.html
> >
> > I'm looking for something like this to apply to the #6 screws holding my
> > rear window down to the roll bar (tip-up canopy) so they don't come
loose
> > (don't even say Loct...). I'm definitely open to other suggestions.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D (finish)
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy locks/Avionics security |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Does this mean you should never buy one used?
Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Working on Canopy of Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy locks/Avionics security
> --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: Canopy locks
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov"
<Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
>
>
> I understand your reasoning that leaving the canopy unlocked will
> save you some time and money if your electronics are stolen. The thief
> leaves the canopy and airframe undamaged, but gets the avionics.
> Insurance pays either way, but you save the time and trouble of
> rebuilding the airframe.
>
> ------------------snip---------------------
>
> One more point on avionics security, - on some of the newer avionics such
as
> my UPSAT SL-60 GPS/Comm you enter your name and address into the units
> database and it is displayed each time the unit is started.
>
> This is a theft deterent that cannot be erased and is a point to consider
> when making your avionics purchase.
>
> George McNutt
> Langley, B.C.
Message 15
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| Subject: | AlternatorPulleyPosition |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
Van's 35amp alternator kit positions the alternator pulley one eighth of an inch
too far forward to be aligned with the drive pulley on back of the O360A1A starter
drive gear. So, I'm seeking advice from others who have had this problem.
Van's advice was to slot the four bolt holes in the mounting bracket so the
bracket could be moved aft 1/8 inch. However, this means grinding away some
of the forward most mounting tab base to clear the bolt head and retaining washer,
weakening the tab. Others advised me to grind 1/8 inch from the pulley
bushing so it will move aft on the alternator shaft. But, I don't see how to
remove and install the bushing retaining nut since the shaft rotates freely.
In addition, I'm not sure I could do this accurately enough to keep the pulley
square on the shaft. Any advice appreciated.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Canopy locks/Avionics security |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@boulder.nist.gov>
Why not run a car alarm with a remote control? A simple pin switch on the
canopy to set it off if not disarmed with the remote. Some CD players have
alarms built in.
Message 17
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| Subject: | MAG Timing Article on Internet/AVWEB |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Go to AVWEB http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/184370-1.html and
print out a copy for your engine manuals. A very comprehensive article
on timing your mags. I recommend printing it because, in the future,
this URL may not be active. Besides, you need a printed version when you
are at the airport anyway.... For the RV archives and the Archive CD,
here is a cut-n-paste of the Avweb article. Good Stuff..
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/184370-1.html
April 16, 2003
Mag Timing is
Easy as One,
Two, Three
There are several easy ways to time a magneto,
as well as specific how-to data. The staff of
Light Plane Maintenance describes a common and
accurate way.
This article originally appeared in the November
2001 issue of Light Plane Maintenance, and is
reprinted here by permission.
First, we want you to understand
that timing magnetos doesn't fall
under the heading of "preventive
maintenance." For certificated aircraft,
this is A&P country -- especially if the
magnetos are to be removed from the
engine.
However, nothing prevents you from checking timing
as long as you are simply performing an inspection,
and make no adjustments or disconnect anything
without being under the watchful eye of your trusty
A&P.
Simple timing changes are neither complex nor
difficult, and knowing that the spark plugs are firing
the fuel-air mixture at the proper time goes a long
way toward getting the most from the avgas you
buy, as well as helping to prevent detonation and
ensuring a long TBO run.
It should be noted, though, that improper application
of these timing procedures could cause severe
engine damage in the form of detonation, rough
running, loss in power, and complete failure. When in
doubt, seek the counsel of a certificated mechanic.
Dual Ignition
Aircraft engines are
equipped with dual ignition
systems for several
reasons. The safety found
in redundancy is the
obvious choice but high
cylinder pressures, fixed
timing, combustion
chamber size, design, and
the goal of optimum
combustion, require the
ignition of the fuel-air
mixture to occur via two
plugs in one combustion chamber.
This is so that the entire mixture can be burned before the pressure
inside
the cylinder reaches the critical pressure of the fuel-air mix. Since
typical
aircraft timing doesn't have adjustable timing according to conditions
like
their automotive cousins, dual ignition provides the required
capability for an
adequate ignition source.
If the mixture is ignited at only one place, the flame-front will move
progressively across the combustion chamber, heating and compressing
the
remaining fuel-air charge until it reaches its critical pressure and
temperature. If you combine this function with a magneto that is
mis-timed or
cross firing, the charge can explode rather than continue a proper
burn rate.
This explosion, known as detonation, can be so severe that pistons can
literally melt away and cylinder heads can be blown completely free of
the
barrel. It's for this reason that magneto-to-engine timing must be
maintained
within a very narrow tolerance and that both mags are operating at
their
peak.
Timing Marks
Most aircraft reciprocating engines have timing
reference marks built into them. The actual number
of degrees may be found on the engine data plate
mounted on the engine case. In most cases the
number is in the neighborhood of 25 degrees
before top dead center, and both magnetos have
the same timing with few exceptions such as the
TCM C-85.
On direct drive engines (no propeller reduction
gear), the timing mark will be on the edge of the
propeller-mounting flange on the crank. The TC (top
center) mark on the flange will align with the top
crankcase split line on most Lycoming engines.
On Continental engines, the TC mark on the propeller flange will align
with the
lower crankcase split line. These marks, when properly positioned,
indicate
that the number-one piston in the number-one cylinder is at top dead
center.
Other marks on the flange indicate degrees before or after top dead
center.
Some engines have the timing marks on the alternator pulley that
correspond
to marks on the accessory housing. Other engines have the timing marks
on
the crankshaft or some crankshaft drive gear and can be viewed by
removing
a plug from the crankcase.
The engine manufacturer's instructions will always give the location
of the
built-in timing reference marks.
When using built-in timing marks, be sure to sight straight across the
stationary pointer or mark on the nose section, the propeller shaft,
crankshaft flange, or ring gear (whichever is appropriate). Sighting
at an
angle will result in a parallax error in positioning the crankshaft
and the
number-one piston.
This has been enough of a problem for some engines
that Teledyne Continental Motors (TCM) has issued
Mandatory Service Bulletin MSB94-8A, which
provides a procedure for timing magnetos to all
TCM engines.
It has a wealth of information, including timing data
and which O-200 engines are eligible for increased
timing. A copy of this Service Bulletin may be
obtained from your local aircraft parts dealer or
from TCM.
By far the easiest way to get the bulletins is to use
the Internet. Register on the TCM Web site (you
will need a valid engine serial number). You will then
have access to all Service Bulletins and much more
for free.
Limited service literature is available for free at the Lycoming Web
site, but
the Lycoming site still falls short of the data available for free
from
Continental for their engines.
Of course, Lycoming service literature is probably four times the
volume of
Continental and is available, including CD format, but for a fee.
Further, both
sites are in a constant state of change, as is so much of the
Internet, so
expect to see changes when you visit.
The Continental bulletin describes, in detail, the use
of a timing disc attached to the propeller and a
piston-locating plug inserted in the top plug hole of
the number-one cylinder. This procedure is
probably the most frequently employed in the timing
of all piston engines and is preferred over the
engine sighting mark method as potentially more
accurate. Limited instructions also come with any
timing disk apparatus you may buy.
Another accurate method of determining piston
position precisely is called the Time-Rite system,
which uses a precision sensor screwed into the
cylinder under test. It's made by ATS, (800)
248-0638, and a complete setup will run close to
$300. One reason why the much cheaper timing disk procedure is so
popular.
The famous or infamous, as the case may be, Bendix dual mag (two
magnetos
in one case) is timed to the engine in a conceptually similar way as
the
following information, but has different technical checks to assure
proper
timing to the engine. See the appropriate Bendix manual for the
specifics on
this unique magneto.
Top Dead Center
Any given piston position is referenced to top dead center (TDC). This
piston
position is not to be confused with a rather hazily defined position
called top
center (TC). A piston in top center has little value from a timing
standpoint
because the crankshaft position may vary from one to five degrees in
this
piston position.
In other words, the piston is at the top of its travel and is in its
"no-travel"
zone. This occurs between the time the crankshaft and connecting rod
stop
pushing the piston upward and continues until the crankshaft has swung
the
lower end of the connecting rod into a position where the piston is
now pulled
downward.
Top dead center, on the other hand, is the point at which the piston
is
positioned the maximum distance from the center of the crankshaft
journal.
It is also in the center of the "no travel zone." This places the
piston in a
position at which a straight line can be drawn through the center of
the
crankshaft journal, the crankpin, and the piston pin.
This is the point from which all other piston and crankshaft positions
are
referenced. Placing the piston in this position by turning the
crankshaft can be
accomplished in any one of several ways.
There are several "top dead center" indicators in
use today; however, the most common and least
expensive of the group uses a locator plug and
timing protractor. The "flower pot," as it is called,
is available from ATS under their P/N E25, and
sells in the neighborhood of $58.
To use it properly, simply bring the number-one
cylinder up on the compression stroke by putting a
finger over the spark plug hole to feel for air
pressure. Then screw the top dead center
locator-pin into the top spark plug hole and bring
the piston slowly up the barrel until it hits the
locator pin.
Attach the "flower pot" to the front of the spinner by wrapping the
elastic
bands around two propeller blades and back to the "flower pot." Set
the disk
so that the hanging needle (be sure the needle attach point is
lubricated and
the needle doesn't stick) points to zero or TC (top center). Then turn
the
propeller backward until the piston again hits the locator plug.
Go slowly with this procedure. You don't want to damage the piston,
locator
plug, or connecting rod. Record the number of degrees the propeller
has
turned in this procedure and divide that result by two.
Remove the locator plug and turn the prop in the normal direction of
rotation
until you reach the exact number of degrees travel previously
calculated.
This will be BDC (bottom dead center) for the number one-piston on the
compression stroke.
Next, reset the timing disc to BC and then rotate the propeller in the
normal
direction of rotation until you reach TC. The piston will now be at
top dead
center on the compression stroke.
Now, back the propeller up approximately five degrees more than what
the
engine data plate calls for in engine timing. Slowly bump the prop in
the
normal direction of rotation until the correct timing position is
reached. (It's
important to move the prop up to the correct timing mark in order to
eliminate any gear train backlash and slop.)
Now that you have properly positioned the engine to fire the
number-one
cylinder at the correct time before top center (BTC), you'll need to
attach a
timing light to the magnetos in order to verify that the points are
just
beginning to open.
If your magnetos are equipped with impulse couplings, be sure to
"unload" the
impulse by turning the prop past TDC and listen for the snap (clank
may be
more descriptive) before setting your engine to the proper firing
position.
Failure to do this will make it impossible to set the timing
correctly.
Lights and Timing
There are two general types of timing lights in
common use today. Both have two lights and three
external wire connections. Each has different
internal characteristics but they function in much
the same way.
One timing light illuminates and buzzes when the
points are open. This of course is called the "buzz
box" and is probably the best-known and most widely used magneto
timing
light on the market today.
It can be purchased from ATS (Aircraft Tool Supply) under their P/N
E50
or from US Tool, P/N TP105E for $88-90. US Tool also has a house brand
buzz box we have not tried that is available for $60, and it has a P/N
of
TP105.
The other timer type has lights that extinguish when the points are
closed. It
also makes a two-tone sound that is much easier on the ear than that
of the
"buzz box." This timing light is available from ATS under a P/N LED52
or
from US Tool, P/N TP300B for under $50. Regardless of the timing light
used, make sure you know what happens to the lights when the points
open.
To connect the timing light to the magneto, clip the lead marked
"left" to the
primary or P-lead on the left magneto. The lead marked "right" goes to
the
P-lead on the right magneto. The ground lead (or black lead) must be
connected to a good ground.
On timing leads that are not marked "left" or "right," you will notice
that one
lead is green and the other is red. Like the navigation lights on your
aircraft,
red is left and green is right. I know that this all sounds painfully
obvious but
to do it wrong can cause you some real frustration.
With most Slick and Bendix magnetos the P-leads do not have to be
disconnected from the magneto but the magneto switch must be in the
"both"
position. With some S-20 series Bendix magnetos, you must remove the
P-lead from the magneto and place a conductor of some sort in the hole
where the P-lead belongs.
Most A&P mechanics have made a Bendix magneto timing lead from an old
set
of Bendix P-leads. If you have the need and can get your hands on a
set of
these little gems they will prove helpful. If you can't beg, borrow,
or steal
any of these leads you can get a set in kit form from Bendix.
The different kit numbers are too numerous to list here but are shown
in the
Bendix System Support Manual and can be ordered through your local
aircraft parts dealer. They are called Bendix magneto terminal kits.
With this
type of magneto you can leave the magneto switch in the "off"
position.
In the interest of safety, make sure the ignition leads are
disconnected at
the spark plugs. If the magneto-to-engine timing must be adjusted, you
need
only to loosen the two mounting nuts and nudge the magneto enough to
turn
the timing light off (or on, depending on the light).
If the magneto won't turn due to dried sealant or a
stuck gasket, grasp the magneto by the housing and
rock gently up and down. Often enough, this will
free the gasket and allow the mag to be adjusted.
If the mag remains stuck, try tapping gently with a
soft mallet to jar the mag free.
Use care with this part of the process. If the
gasket is damaged or torn you will be the proud
owner of a new oil leak, making a replacement
gasket necessary. Once the magneto timing is set,
tighten the hold down nuts using an even
"step-torque" procedure.
This insures that the magneto won't be pulled to
one side of the pad, altering your timing adjustment.
Don't remove the mounting nuts or the magneto
unless you must. There are two rubber cushions
that hold the magneto drive gear to the
engine-driven cup.
These cushions remain secure in the cup when the
magneto is assembled to the engine but can fall
free, lodging in the accessory housing or falling to
the sump when the mag is removed.
Point gap and internal timing should be checked
before installation and the Bendix impulse coupling
(if installed) will need to be inspected. Breaker
points wear with normal use. Point material loss and
cam follower deterioration will alter the
magneto-to-engine timing sufficiently enough to
change the internal E-gap timing.
This reduces the magneto's ability to provide a hot
spark and degrades overall engine performance.
Simply re-timing the mag will help, but when the
point set gap closes enough to affect operation, the
only sure way to correct the problem is to remove
the mag and reset the point gap or replace the
contacts. Seek the counsel of your local mechanic if
your points are reaching the nearly closed position.
Remember, there is mag to engine timing, which is what we have been
previously discussing, and involves the position of the mag relative
to the
engine. Internal magneto E-gap timing, on the other hand, involves an
internal
adjustment within the magneto itself, and requires adjusting the
magneto
internal points to open at the optimal time for maximum spark
production.
The E-gap (Efficiency gap) is the point at which the greatest magnetic
field
stress occurs. The specific number of degrees beyond the neutral
magnetic
position is called the E-gap angle. Opening the breaker points at this
time
interrupts the primary circuit current flow, and allows current to be
induced
in the secondary coil. This results in the maximum spark being
produced at
the plugs.
Gaskets and Sealant
Many mechanics use Lubriplate 105 white grease on the magneto gasket.
This
makes it easy to move the magneto, but once the engine has been run
and
warmed up, the gasket is there to stay.
Some mechanics swear by Permatex Aviation Gasket Sealer, which will
allow
you to move the magneto before it sets up and will surely keep it from
leaking. But, again, removal means replacement.
Many have had good experience with putting the gasket on dry, which
seems
to allow movement of the magneto for timing purposes without damaging
the
gasket's ability to seal.
If you must reuse the gasket (which we don't recommend), remove any
grease or oil from the surface prior to installation. Do not attempt
to reuse a
cracked or broken gasket. It will leak no matter how much sealant is
used.
Make sure all old gasket material is removed from the magneto flange
and
the engine accessory case. It's essential that no gasket material be
allowed
to drop into the engine since it can get into the oil and wreaks
havoc.
Once the mag is in place and properly timed, ground run the engine and
perform a magneto check. Note the response on the EGT to single mag
operation -- the EGT should go up about the same amount on each mag
selected and the RPM drop should be smooth and even.
After the run, inspect the magneto bases for oil leaks and double
check the
security of mounting nuts and P-lead grounding wires (including the
wire
braiding).
If your ground run leaves you with doubt or backfiring and loud
explosions
accompany it, discontinue the run and consult with your local expert.
He has
seen this kind of problem before and can make the necessary
adjustments.
It also wouldn't hurt to give the radios a quick audio check to make
sure you
haven't introduced any RFI while under the hood during maintenance.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Alt cooling air required? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
This question is related to alternators but not electrically. I have a RV-8
and want to know if a cooling tube is necessary to a 40 amp alt? If yes
does it blow onto the back or the front?
At 01:04 PM 4/21/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>Van's 35amp alternator kit positions the alternator pulley one eighth of an
>inch too far forward to be aligned with the drive pulley on back of the
>O360A1A starter drive gear. So, I'm seeking advice from others who have had
>this problem. Van's advice was to slot the four bolt holes in the mounting
>bracket so the bracket could be moved aft 1/8 inch. However, this means
>grinding away some of the forward most mounting tab base to clear the bolt
>head and retaining washer, weakening the tab. Others advised me to grind
>1/8 inch from the pulley bushing so it will move aft on the alternator
>shaft. But, I don't see how to remove and install the bushing retaining nut
>since the shaft rotates freely. In addition, I'm not sure I could do this
>accurately enough to keep the pulley square on the shaft. Any advice
>appreciated.
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor power. |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 4/20/03 7:37:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes:
<< Most CS props have stops at low pitch so it is not like the prop is going
to flatten out so much that it well not produce any thrust. >>
I have been following this thread without comment because nothing about the
conditions described made sense to me and I like to think I subscribe to the
principal of never missing an opportunity to keep my mouth shut when I don't
have anything to offer. However in this case I suspect Jerry Springer has
put his finger on a possible explanation and also pointed out a possible
second problem, assuming that one problem was a super rich mixture (but
without lots of black smoke?). A careful check of the props low pitch stops
would seem to be in order. I will be very interested in the final
explanation of this.
Do Not Archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Senders |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Hi Scott,
I would highly recommend the Grand Rapids EIS over a panel full of steam gauges...simpler
installation, lighter weight, takes up less panel space, and WAY more
functionality for only a bit more cost. In principle it's more reliable too.
I'm an avionics guy by trade, and there's a reason why the state of the art
has moved away from steam gauges. It's not just to look cool, it's for all the
above reasons and more. I'm not flying yet but the EIS has an outstanding
reputation in the field, and I've played with my EIS quite a bit in the shop and
really like it. Greg Toman at Grand Rapids is a super guy to work with and
incorporated some custom features for my EIS at no extra cost.
To answer your question, the EIS-4000 can work with either resistive (float-type)
or capacitive fuel senders. I bought and installed the floats from Vans but
after Greg came out with the Princeton capacitive probes that are custom-made
for the RV tanks, I bought the capacitive probes instead. They are lighter,
require no bending or fitting (they screw right into the hole pattern in the
tank access cover), and best of all you will probably never have to pull a tank
(or even the access cover) to fix a bad float sender since the capacitive probes
are solid state and have no moving parts to break or wear out. I know someone
personally, as well as several listers, who've had to change out float senders
after the airplane was flying, and they tell me it's not nearly as much
fun as flying. : )
I believe you can also use Vans capacitive fuel probe sender kit with the EIS-4000...probably
should ask Greg to make sure if you go this route. It would probly
be a bit cheaper than getting the probes from Greg, just not quite as quick
or elegant.
And yes, you are correct that capacitive senders won't work with analog fuel gauges
(at least not Vans gauges or any others I'm aware of....they would require
seperate circuitry inside to work with capacitive probes). Best way to know
for sure is to contact the manufacturer.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D firewall forward stuff...
Time: 10:12:47 PM PST US
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Senders
From: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
The day has come to order the 7A wings, and I am trying to determine which senders
to choose. I searched the archives on the comparison, and most of the data
seemed somewhat outdated (prior to many of the new enginer monitors being released).
That being said...I will likely go with one of two options:
1) Panel full of steam guages
2) "Cheap" engine monitor (Grand Rapids?)
Will either capacitance or resistance work with most of the new electronic monitors?
If I understand correctly...capacitance won't work with the analog gauges?
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
7A Emp
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor |
power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
> A careful check of the props low pitch stops
>would seem to be in order. I will be very interested in the final
>explanation of this.
-
I'm much like you on this subject, Harry -- but I haven't seen any
response that would even indicate conclusively what kind of prop was
used. Maybe I just missed it -- do we know it was CS?
Steve
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: AlternatorPulleyPosition |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@attbi.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
> Van's 35amp alternator kit positions the alternator pulley one eighth of an
> inch too far forward to be aligned with the drive pulley on back of the
> O360A1A starter drive gear. So, I'm seeking advice from others who have had
> this problem. Van's advice was to slot the four bolt holes in the mounting
> bracket so the bracket could be moved aft 1/8 inch. However, this means
> grinding away some of the forward most mounting tab base to clear the bolt
> head and retaining washer, weakening the tab. Others advised me to grind 1/8
> inch from the pulley bushing so it will move aft on the alternator shaft.
> But, I don't see how to remove and install the bushing retaining nut since the
> shaft rotates freely. In addition, I'm not sure I could do this accurately
> enough to keep the pulley square on the shaft. Any advice appreciated.
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
Find someone who has one or stop by a tire shop and use one of those rat a
tat air driven wrenches to get the pulley nut off.
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@velocitus.net>
I have some hard and fast data points that may be helpful. The first year
my 6A was flying I didn't have any way of blocking off airflow to the
cooler. On my first cross country, at 10,500' with an OAT of 30, my oil
temp only got up to 140F. Obviously, no good.
Then I put a door on the exit of the oil cooler. In the same scenario, I
was able to get 155F. Better, but still no joy. After making a door that
blocks the entire *intake* for the cooler, I was able to get 190F in the
exact same situation. I have always been able to get at least 170F even in
OAT's below 20F.
So, an effective door can raise the temp by some 50 degrees. The vernatherm
apparently passes a significant amount of oil.
Ed Bundy RV6a 500+ hours
> Short answer is because they =B3work=B2. Most users report they can
increase
> oil temp by 10 to 15 degrees on really cold days. By closing off airflow
> through the cooler
>
> Longer answer. The vernatherm does not shut off all flow through the
> cooler. It always allows some oil flow even when the engine is stone
cold.
> In RVs even this small flow is sometimes enough to keep the oil from
> reaching optimum temp in cool air at 200MPH.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: AlternatorPulleyPosition |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@velocitus.net>
I had the same problem with my 0-320-D1a and 35a alternator/bracket, all of
which was purchased from Van's, so I don't know why these things don't fit.
Anyway, I ended up filing the excess off of the mounting ears of the
alternator itself. There was plently of material left, and it's been fine
for 6.5 years now.
> Van's 35amp alternator kit positions the alternator pulley one eighth of
an inch too far forward to be aligned with the drive pulley on back of the
O360A1A starter drive gear. So, I'm seeking advice from others who have had
this problem. Van's advice was to slot the four bolt holes in the mounting
bracket so the bracket could be moved aft 1/8 inch. However, this means
grinding away some of the forward most mounting tab base to clear the bolt
head and retaining washer, weakening the tab. Others advised me to grind
1/8 inch from the pulley bushing so it will move aft on the alternator
shaft. But, I don't see how to remove and install the bushing retaining nut
since the shaft rotates freely. In addition, I'm not sure I could do this
accurately enough to keep the pulley square on the shaft. Any advice
appreciated.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Alt cooling air required? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
I have 700 hrs on my -6 B&C alternator with no failures, and no blast tube.
Laird
SoCal
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>This question is related to alternators but not electrically. I have a RV-8
>and want to know if a cooling tube is necessary to a 40 amp alt? If yes
>does it blow onto the back or the front?
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gilbert Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Guys
.... I just restarted working on my RV-6A kit after a way too long gap of 3+ years,
and now have the ability to incorporate some of Vans later improvements...:
)
I'm updating to the new Odessey battery with a front of firewall mount, and
the RV-7 heat distribution on aft firewall, center floor cover for wire/hose
routing and an aft firewall mount for the fuel pump. Since I'm just starting
on the cockpit internals, the timing is just right for these changes.
One of the items I need to work on next is the tip-up canopy latch handle
that fits in the slot in the left cockpit side.
Do the later RV-9's and RV-7's have the same assembly? Or has this mechanism
been improved?
....thanks Gil Alexander
PS .. just got Vans pre-punched (almost pre-built..:
) glove box, and can't believe the fit and quality of the parts, it's great - My
kit is an early mark it and drill it yourself one...
PPS ..had to buy a Grumman Tiger to fill my new hangar so I wouldn't forget how
to fly... the cheesy Grumman glove box (which is actually certified) is held
to-gether with staples!
RV-6A, #20701, working on cockpit interior
Tucson, AZ at 57AZ
Message 27
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| Subject: | Canopy locks/Avionics security |
--> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Does this mean you should never buy one used?
> ------------------snip---------------------
One more point on avionics security, - on some of the newer avionics such
as my UPSAT SL-60 GPS/Comm you enter your name and address into the units
database and it is displayed each time the unit is started.
This is a theft deterent that cannot be erased and is a point to consider
when making your avionics purchase.
-----------------------------------------------
Hi Larry
Good question, - my SL-60 lost my name & address during a modification at
the factory. After I got home UPSAT technical support walked me through the
procedure for re-entering the info after I provided the serial number etc.
This was quite a complicated procedure and required the unit to be running
as they talked me through the pages via telephone. It is not something that
the averge radio thief could do.
Not sure what info UPSAT would require from a second owner to authorize a
name change, however I am sure it can be done.
Do not archive
George
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Alt cooling air required? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
I have 304 hrs on my B&C alternator also with no blast tube... no problem.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, Vancouver, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laird Owens" <owens@aerovironment.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alt cooling air required?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
>
> I have 700 hrs on my -6 B&C alternator with no failures, and no blast
tube.
>
> Laird
> SoCal
>
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >This question is related to alternators but not electrically. I have a
RV-8
> >and want to know if a cooling tube is necessary to a 40 amp alt? If yes
> >does it blow onto the back or the front?
> >
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: VOR prognosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Lundin <rlundin46@yahoo.com>
Since the LORAN system is still in operation, I think
the vor system is going to be around a long time.
Rick
--- Gary <rv9er@3rivers.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> <rv9er@3rivers.net>
>
>
> Anyone in the know regarding the fate of VOR??
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
>
> Jeff......I am not, but to me it is a moot point. I
> have never had any use for the VOR system anyway.
> Let's hear it for GPS!
>
> Gary
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor |
power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
At 13:38 2003-04-21 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
>HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
> > A careful check of the props low pitch stops
> >would seem to be in order. I will be very interested in the final
> >explanation of this.
>-
>I'm much like you on this subject, Harry -- but I haven't seen any
>response that would even indicate conclusively what kind of prop was
>used. Maybe I just missed it -- do we know it was CS?
>
>Steve
A fixed pitch prop turning 2700, assuming it is pitched for an RV, would
have had plenty of power behind it otherwise you wouldn't get that much
rpm. If it was climbing at only 500 ft/min, it would have been doing
something like 170 mph. (Assuming a 180 HP engine)
A CS prop, on the stops (flat or fine pitch), MIGHT only need 70 HP or so
to spin it 2700. (That's a guess but a reasonable example).
Mike
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently |
poor power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
At 11:49 2003-04-21 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 4/20/2003 10:37:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>jmpcrftr@teleport.com writes:
>
> > I suspect (and I'm not a CS expert) that in a climbing RV making normal
> > power a CS prop is a long ways from the stops. Maybe 5 or 6 degree off
> the
> >
> > stops. Max pitch change is something like 11 or 12 degrees. Now you've
> > got me curious...
> >
> > Who's got the pitch range of a Hartzell set up for an RV?
>
>High speed stop is set at 12 deg and low speed stop is around 37 deg. This
>is set at 30" radius (83% of span for a 72" diameter prop). I had to
>readjust the high speed stop on mine to a little higher angle (probably 14
>deg) to prevent engine overspeed. Now mine never gets above 2675 (as checked
>after flight on the VM1000 flight data min/max collection function).
>
>-GV (RV-6A N1GV 598hrs)
Why didn't the governor keep it from overspeeding?
Mike
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Random thoughts Re: new RV with apparently poor |
power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Michael McGee wrote:
>A CS prop, on the stops (flat or fine pitch), MIGHT only need 70 HP or
>so
>to spin it 2700. (That's a guess but a reasonable example).
---
Thanks Mike -- I understand that but it seems to me that the facts were
not all presented and no follow up that I've seen. How do we even know
if the prop was suitable for the plane at all, CS or FP? I maybe just
missed some mail but I haven't seen the boundaries on the possibilities
yet, I think.
Heck, if you put the wrong prop on it, you could even make it go
backwards! :-)
Regards,
Steve
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently |
poor power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
Thanks to Boyd and GV for the numbers.
Using the fine pitch of 14 degrees measured at 30" radius and 2700 rpm and
assuming a propellor efficiency of 85% I get 99 statute mph at 2700 rpm.
Someone might want to check my math.
12 degrees fine pitch lowers that to 85 statute mph. Getting only 85 smph
at 2700 in an RV doesn't sound right but it would have a lot of pull at
brake release. A real stump puller! I would expect the 14 degrees and 99
smph at 2700 is more correct. Again, I'm not an expert on this.
MGM
At 09:29 2003-04-21 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
>How about 32 (high) - 14 (low) degrees.
>
>Michael McGee wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
> >
> > I suspect (and I'm not a CS expert) that in a climbing RV making normal
> > power a CS prop is a long ways from the stops. Maybe 5 or 6 degree off the
> > stops. Max pitch change is something like 11 or 12 degrees. Now you've
> > got me curious...
> >
> > Who's got the pitch range of a Hartzell set up for an RV?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > At 21:59 2003-04-20 -0700, you wrote:
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > >I guess it is just me, it still does not add up because a prop at low
> > >pitch to the stops and with that kind of rpm it should be climbing like
> > >everything. UNLESS!! the prop also was not setup right and the flat
> > >pitch was so flat there was not any thrust being produced.
> > >
> > >See ya around,
> > >
> > >Jerry
> > >do not archive
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> One of the items I need to work on next is the tip-up canopy latch
handle that fits in the slot in the left cockpit side.
> Do the later RV-9's and RV-7's have the same assembly? Or has this
mechanism been improved?
I'm pretty sure the mechanism hasn't changed a bit from the -6 to the -7.
It looks identical on all of the -6s I've seen and seen pictures of.
One thing you do have the luxury of now, though, is the canopy reinforcement
kit ($20 from Van's). I'm not sure if that was available when you started,
but now it's pre-cut and pre-punched.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Alt cooling air required? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
Mine (RV-4) worked well with no blast tube for 150 hours then I REALLY
tightened up the baffling, effectively starving the alternator of any
air. It is important to point out that I have an internal regulator so ALL
of the heat is generated in the alternator. After tightening up the
baffling I still had no problems until a long day of flying and it gave out
in the dark with all lights on. It was a junk yard alternator out of a Geo
Storm with about 100k on it. Your mileage may vary... P-)
It's important to point out that the amount of heat generated by the
alternator is proportional to the electrical load. All lights and radios
on plus an electronic ignition will make much more heat than just a comm
radio and two mags. Do you have an external regulator? What is the
running load on your system?
If I needed one I would put the blast tube in the back pointing at the
regulator and brushes. I remember seeing a clamp on shroud for some units
that your blast tube plugs into. Probably overkill but looks good.
MGM
At 14:39 2003-04-21 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
>
>I have 304 hrs on my B&C alternator also with no blast tube... no problem.
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, Vancouver, WA
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Laird Owens" <owens@aerovironment.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Alt cooling air required?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
> >
> > I have 700 hrs on my -6 B&C alternator with no failures, and no blast
>tube.
> >
> > Laird
> > SoCal
> >
> >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > >
> > >This question is related to alternators but not electrically. I have a
>RV-8
> > >and want to know if a cooling tube is necessary to a 40 amp alt? If yes
> > >does it blow onto the back or the front?
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re : Alt cooling air required ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" <martin.hone@tradergroup.com.au>
Scott,
I have Vans 35 Amp alternator which I have modified by fitting a 4 inch alloy pulley
and a cold air blast tube. I simply removed the pressed steel plate on the
rear of the unit and JB "welded" an alloy tube to it after I cut the appropriate
hole, then attached some of Van's plastic 5/8 inch corrigated blast tube
which runs to a hole in the cowl inlet ramp. Fitting the larger pulley entailed
machining the spacer to get the alignment right. You should be able to undo
the nut on the shaft fairly easily, remove the pulley and spacers, then skim
a bit off the spacer on a lathe.
You may not need a blast tube, but it gets hot under the cowl. The B & C unit is
probably a much better unit than the Vans one.
Regards
Martin in Oz
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gilbert Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Dan .. does that kit replace the foam and glass re-inforcement in the front of
the tip-up frame?
If so, I've already done that...:
( gil A
-------Original Message-------
From: Dan Checkoway <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> One of the items I need to work on next is the tip-up canopy latch
handle that fits in the slot in the left cockpit side.
> Do the later RV-9's and RV-7's have the same assembly? Or has this
mechanism been improved?
I'm pretty sure the mechanism hasn't changed a bit from the -6 to the -7.
It looks identical on all of the -6s I've seen and seen pictures of.
One thing you do have the luxury of now, though, is the canopy
reinforcement
kit ($20 from Van's). I'm not sure if that was available when you
started,
but now it's pre-cut and pre-punched.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (finish)
<a target=_blank
href="http://www.rvproject.com">http://www.rvproject.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/subscription">http://www.matronics.com/subscription
href="http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm">http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
href="http://www.matronics.com/search">http://www.matronics.com/search
href="http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list">http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list
href="http://www.matronics.com/archives">http://www.matronics.com/archives
href="http://www.matronics.com/photoshare">http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
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href="http://www.matronics.com/emaillists">http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Michael McGee wrote:
<snip>
> 12 degrees fine pitch lowers that to 85 statute mph. Getting only 85 smph
> at 2700 in an RV doesn't sound right but it would have a lot of pull at
> brake release. A real stump puller!
<snip>
Ahhhhh..........I don't think so. The real problem with the original
post that started this thread was the 27-ish" of manifold pressure that
was stated. If you have 2700 rpm and ~27" MAP, a LOT of power is being
generated regardless of what kind of propeller is installed. That is why
many repliers have questioned the numbers stated originally because they
just don't add up.
The problem with the stump puller scenario is that a prop that will
yield only 85 mph at 2700 has practically no pitch and consequently,
very little thrust. Instead of pulling stumps, it probably would barely
be capable of pulling teeth! At 2700rpm and 85 mph, this very low pitch
prop would barely load the engine, so MAP would be very low.
The way to get "stump pulling thrust" is to install a *large* diameter,
low-pitch prop. Now the prop disc is large enough to load the engine
(high MAP) and the entire rated hp of the motor will be delivered to the
prop, but I have never seen such a large prop installed on an RV.
Those of us who have spent too much time messin' with R/C planes know
what I am describing. A model plane can be transformed from a high speed
screamer with its small diameter, high-pitch prop into a VSTOL craft by
installing a large diameter, low-pitch prop. In both cases the prop is
pitched so the engine develops full power and MAP at rated rpm; in one
case rpm is translated into speed (but poor climb), in the other, thrust
at low speed with great climb but very low top speed.
Sam Buchanan (formerly of R/C Report magazine)
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Yep, it's an alternative to the foam/glass approach. Disregard... 8-)
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilbert Alexander" <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: RV-6 tip-up latch - any improvements available?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gilbert Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
>
> Dan .. does that kit replace the foam and glass re-inforcement in the
front of the tip-up frame?
>
> If so, I've already done that...:
> ( gil A
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Both I and another rotary powered RV flyer I know have these Terra radios.
He is having the same problem right now. I have had it in the past. The
mic level seems to be very sensitive and drifts badly. Try turning the mic
gain down. I've had to readjust mine several times. There is another
internal (not accessible from outside the unit ) which can also cause the
problem.
The display died several times until I learned the trick of liberally
spraying the display driver board with Corrosion X. This corrects the
problem of various display segments not coming on until the unit is good &
warm. Moisture on the uncoated driver board is the culprit. It is a
florescent display, not LED.
This 'POS' will be replaced if it gives me one more excuse.
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: "P M Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Terra Radio Comm Problem - Help
> --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
> Got a real odd bug with my Terra Comm Tx-760D Digital (newer orange led
> Terra/Trimble radio). With the RV shutdown, inside a metal hanger with
> all the doors closed I can hear and x-mit to the airplanes in the
> pattern with no problem. With the engine on and taxing around, still no
> problem for about 3 or 4 minutes THEN, after 4 or so minutes of engine
> runup/taxiing - when I x-mit I sound like Charlie Brown's parents
> (Garbled over modulated and not intelligible). Any ideas on what would
> cause this behavior? Four or five cold starts, over a two week period
> showed the same bug and time to show the bug (not antenna related)
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Re : Alt cooling air required ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> I have Vans 35 Amp alternator which I have modified by fitting a 4 inch
alloy pulley and a cold air blast tube. I simply removed the pressed steel
plate on the rear of the unit and JB "welded" an alloy tube to it after I
cut the appropriate hole, then attached some of Van's plastic 5/8 inch
corrigated blast tube which runs to a hole in the cowl inlet ramp. Fitting
the larger pulley entailed machining the spacer to get the alignment right.
You should be able to undo the nut on the shaft fairly easily, remove the
pulley and spacers, then skim a bit off the spacer on a lathe.
> You may not need a blast tube, but it gets hot under the cowl. The B & C
unit is probably a much better unit than the Vans one.
>
> Regards
>
> Martin in Oz
My 35 amp Van's (Honda alternator) lasted 700 hours before it failed. It
used the original automotive fan plus a blast tube. The more cold air the
better.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: VOR prognosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Richard Lundin wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Lundin <rlundin46@yahoo.com>
>
> Since the LORAN system is still in operation, I think
> the vor system is going to be around a long time.
> Rick
> --- Gary <rv9er@3rivers.net> wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Gary"
> > <rv9er@3rivers.net>
> >
> >
> > Anyone in the know regarding the fate of VOR??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jeff Orear
> >
> > Jeff......I am not, but to me it is a moot point. I
> > have never had any use for the VOR system anyway.
> > Let's hear it for GPS!
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
Does GPS go out in real heavy rain like my dish Network does?
I have not flown GPS in heavy precip and I am just curious..
Thanks, Phil
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Alt cooling air required? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
I have the Van's Nipondenso alternator and I put a 4" pulley on it (from
Spruce) because it would run at an inordinate rpm with the small pulley it
came with. I also made a fiberglass hat to go over the rear cover and
connected a blast tube there. My cover was made to the exact diameter of the
rear cover and held in place with a large Jubilee hose clamp plus safety
wiring in case it popped off (it would fall back on the exhaust pipe if it
did) The mold for fibeglassing the cover was made by using a roll of 2"
Gyprock joint-tape, peeling off enough turns until I got the exact diameter.
When the fiberglass cover cured, the only way I could get it off the mold
was too remove the tape from the inside. I finished up with yards and yards
of tape on the floor but the results are great! If anybody is interested I
could e-mails some photos direct.
Cheers ---Henry Hore
Message 44
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| Subject: | RV-6A FOR SALE (DNA) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
I'm posting this for John Rost who can be e-mailed to:
johnrost@earthlink.net
1997 RV-6A, 320hrs TTAE, 180 hp 0-360, Hartzell C/S prop, slider, Garmin
295, Navaid autopilot, intercom, mode C transponder, VFR day/night, leather
interior, always hangered, excellent condition. $70,000 US
John, days 562-716-8296, evenings 714-593-6171, plane based at Long Beach
(LGB), CA.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,266 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
Message 45
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
I just got the sad news that Phil Arter passed away the past Saturday
evening of Coronary Heart Disease.
Phil had been building an RV-8 and I had spoken with him on the phone and
via email many time about his project, and my project, but unfortunately we
never had the chance to meet in person.
Phil's friend, Sal DeVincenzo, wrote me this evening and asked if I would
post the news and information regarding the Memorial Service. The service
is to be held Thursday at 1:30 PM at St Andrews Presbyterian Church, 3700
Baseline, Boulder Colorado.
For more information, please feel free to contact Sal at sdv@qwest.net.
-Bill.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Alt cooling air required? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2003 10:24:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes:
> This question is related to alternators but not electrically. I have a RV-8
> and want to know if a cooling tube is necessary to a 40 amp alt? If yes
> does it blow onto the back or the front?
Necessary? You be the judge. The alternator has a cooling fan that helps to
a small degree. All electronics (diodes in this case) are more reliable and
last a bunch longer when kept cool (case temperatures 65 deg C/149 deg F or
lower would be my recommendation). If you don't know how hot your diodes are
getting during operation, why not err on the side of caution and provide some
blast air for them (they'd do the same for you)? I have the 60A B&C on my
bird cooled by a 1" SCAT hose coming off the front baffle floor and safety
wired to the alternator rear housing so that air floods over the diodes.
It's cheap and it's easy.
Overclockers (those wild eyed computer geeks that manage to drive their
gaming Pentiums at twice their rated speeds) get into all kinds of exotic
cooling systems to keep their chips below 50 deg C.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 598hrs)
Message 47
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| Subject: | Everett-area Project? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
I'll be working in Everett, WA on Wednesday and Thursday, looking for a project
to visit Wednesday evening. Contact me off-list.
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently |
poor power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
(Gettin' long winded but I still think it's a good discussion)
At 18:41 2003-04-21 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>
>Michael McGee wrote:
><snip>
> > 12 degrees fine pitch lowers that to 85 statute mph. Getting only 85 smph
> > at 2700 in an RV doesn't sound right but it would have a lot of pull at
> > brake release. A real stump puller!
><snip>
>
>Ahhhhh..........I don't think so. The real problem with the original
>post that started this thread was the 27-ish" of manifold pressure that
>was stated. If you have 2700 rpm and ~27" MAP, a LOT of power is being
>generated regardless of what kind of propeller is installed.
NO THERE ISN'T ! That's the point I'm trying to make. A CS prop setting
on the fine pitch stops doesn't need 180 hp to make 2700 rpm. If that
engine was running 2700 and 27" (ish) and pumping 25-30 gph through the
injectors it isn't making full power. At 180 HP the engine should be
flowing about 20 gph for max power. Anything more and it ain't making max
power. If you don't have fuel flow info, RPM and MAP don't tell you the HP
it's making.
>That is why
>many repliers have questioned the numbers stated originally because they
>just don't add up.
RPM and MAP alone can fool you. Since this was a first flight there was
never good power demonstrated prior to the problem. This is all hindsight
but I think its a very interesting to dig down and understand this. Had
the engine previously demonstrated good power then the bogus number theory
would have held water. I think Greg Young's comment about this experience
on his first & final RV-6 flight is good food for thought.
>The problem with the stump puller scenario is that a prop that will
>yield only 85 mph at 2700 has practically no pitch and consequently,
>very little thrust. Instead of pulling stumps, it probably would barely
>be capable of pulling teeth! At 2700rpm and 85 mph, this very low pitch
>prop would barely load the engine, so MAP would be very low.
Unless there was SO MUCH FUEL going in that the fuel was soaking up HP
instead of the prop, even at wide open throttle. You will still see 27 or
more inches and not be making full power.
>The way to get "stump pulling thrust" is to install a *large* diameter,
>low-pitch prop. Now the prop disc is large enough to load the engine
>(high MAP) and the entire rated hp of the motor will be delivered to the
>prop, but I have never seen such a large prop installed on an RV.
Yes a longer prop has much better static thrust, I should have left out the
stump puller anecdote, I was trying to be funny. A prop as long as an RV
can handle will never be a stump puller.
>Those of us who have spent too much time messin' with R/C planes know
>what I am describing. A model plane can be transformed from a high speed
>screamer with its small diameter, high-pitch prop into a VSTOL craft by
>installing a large diameter, low-pitch prop. In both cases the prop is
>pitched so the engine develops full power and MAP at rated rpm; in one
>case rpm is translated into speed (but poor climb), in the other, thrust
>at low speed with great climb but very low top speed.
>
>Sam Buchanan (formerly of R/C Report magazine)
Okay, we're getting into details that we could set down and write a book about.
In the special case you mention you are correct. But also in that example
you had engines that you knew were developing rated power, that is you had
the mixture set right with the needle valve. Richen the mixture up and it
was almost like closing the throttle until it starts bucking and popping.
Have you ever flown a plane that had an under-pitched prop and felt like it
hit a wall just above stall speed. Me neither and I wouldn't want to
without a long runway or a diaper. You can pitch a prop to maximize static
thrust and then as you start rolling the thrust diminishes until you won't
accelerate any more. That's what I was alluding to. This can happen on a
CS if your governor goes TU or you loose oil pressure.
Test question for you CS guys: You've been ignoring your oil pressure
gauge. What's the first clue that you've lost most of your oil?
My unemployedness has made me quite a prolific email junky. Unless we want
to write a book about this I'll let this thread evaporate. My degree is in
physics, I could theorize on this until my unemployment runs out.
MGM
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: VOR prognosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
I don't think rain has much effect on GPS, at least if it stays at
sub-biblical levels.
However, I plan to have both VOR and GPS. VOR is a nav system that is
completely independent from GPS. Once in my life I have seen my Magellan
GPS fail to acquire enough satellites to get a fix. I am not sure why.
I am willing to bet that something could go wrong with the GPS system
or, certainly, my GPS receiver. There's nothing like having 2
independent systems to cross-check. (And, that's not the same as 2
different GPS units.)
>Does GPS go out in real heavy rain like my dish Network does?
>
>I have not flown GPS in heavy precip and I am just curious..
>
>Thanks, Phil
>
>
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor |
power.
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Michael McGee wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
>
> (Gettin' long winded but I still think it's a good discussion)
>
You are right it is long winded but still does not add up with
those numbers. I don't even remember who the original poster
was, did they follow up with any numbers on the prop? :-)
If the prop stops are correct it should still fly fine at flat pitch.
Jerry
Message 51
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| Subject: | RV-6 canopy cover |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott@shaw.ca>
Does anyone know how many yards of fabric and what width that fabric has to be
to make up a canopy cover for an RV-6.
Thanks,
Scott in VAncouver
spending Canadian dollars....
Message 52
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| Subject: | HS 710 and HS 714 drilling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
A quick question came up on the HS that left me a little confused...on view A-A
there are four holes near the center of HS710 and HS714 that say to "enlarge
to 3/16 in assembly with fuselage". There is also a note specifying which rivet
to use in all of the HS710/HS714 holes. Do I A) Put rivets in all the holes
as specified, or B) Rivet everything but the four holes, drill the four holes
out to 3/16, then a rivet/bolt goes in later on.
Glad I did the VS first...it was definitely easier.
THanks,
Scott
7A Emp
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: HS 710 and HS 714 drilling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Those four holes are where the HS bolts to the aft deck of the fuselage (two
bars of F-711 sticking up...see the preview plans). It's best to, as the
instructions say, drill them in the assembly with the fuselage. The reason
for that is that it leaves room for a fiddle factor later...it's best to
drill to full size *once* and not risk elongation or enlargement.
So if there are pilot holes, just leave 'em. If there are no holes, just
leave it like that. Don't drill those spots, and don't put any rivets in
those 4 spots, just leave 'em as-is.
As you go forward, keep an eye out in the drawings for notes like that.
Often times the plans or instructions will tell you to drill holes to 1/8"
as opposed to #30, so that the full size #30 gets drilled "in assembly."
Same with 3/16" holes...often you'll drill 1/8" pilot holes and then the
3/16" gets drilled when everything's joined.
Hope this makes sense,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (finish)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: HS 710 and HS 714 drilling
> --> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
>
>
> All,
>
> A quick question came up on the HS that left me a little confused...on
view A-A there are four holes near the center of HS710 and HS714 that say to
"enlarge to 3/16 in assembly with fuselage". There is also a note
specifying which rivet to use in all of the HS710/HS714 holes. Do I A) Put
rivets in all the holes as specified, or B) Rivet everything but the four
holes, drill the four holes out to 3/16, then a rivet/bolt goes in later on.
>
> Glad I did the VS first...it was definitely easier.
>
> THanks,
> Scott
> 7A Emp
>
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: HS 710 and HS 714 drilling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Scott,
Rivet everything as per instructions except the four mounting bolt holes.
Don't drill ("enlarge to 3/16 in assembly with fuselage") the four mounting
bolt holes until you have the fuse ready for mounting and rigging the
horizontal stab.
Jim in Kelowna
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: HS 710 and HS 714 drilling
> --> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
>
>
> All,
>
> A quick question came up on the HS that left me a little confused...on
view A-A there are four holes near the center of HS710 and HS714 that say to
"enlarge to 3/16 in assembly with fuselage". There is also a note
specifying which rivet to use in all of the HS710/HS714 holes. Do I A) Put
rivets in all the holes as specified, or B) Rivet everything but the four
holes, drill the four holes out to 3/16, then a rivet/bolt goes in later on.
>
> Glad I did the VS first...it was definitely easier.
>
> THanks,
> Scott
> 7A Emp
>
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re:Late reply to plane new RV with apparently poor power. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 4/21/2003 3:54:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jmpcrftr@teleport.com writes:
> Why didn't the governor keep it from overspeeding?
>
Look in your Hartzell prop setup instructions and you will find that the high
speed stop should be at the prop, not the governor.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 598hrs)
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