Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Super RV's (Wayne R. Couture)
2. 04:25 AM - Re: Re: Tee Shirts (graham jones)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: RV-10 Photos (graham jones)
4. 05:34 AM - Re: Removing a Sensenich prop (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
5. 06:13 AM - Handheld Radio Wiring (Lenleg@aol.com)
6. 06:37 AM - Re: Super RV's (Finn Lassen)
7. 06:40 AM - Re: Ground adj rudder pedals RV8 QB (Jack Fromm)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: Infinity stick grip wiring logic (Dwpetrus@aol.com)
9. 06:48 AM - Re: Removing a Sensenich prop (Cy Galley)
10. 07:04 AM - jerry s / i did photos albany (WPAerial@aol.com)
11. 07:35 AM - Re: Super RV's (Brian Denk)
12. 08:03 AM - Re: Removing a Sensenich prop (Elsa & Henry)
13. 08:14 AM - Re: Super RV's (Wayne R. Couture)
14. 08:19 AM - Re: Super RV's (Wayne R. Couture)
15. 08:21 AM - Re: Super RV's (Scott Bilinski)
16. 08:39 AM - This is easier than I thought. (Bill Dube)
17. 09:04 AM - Re: Super RV's (RV_8 Pilot)
18. 10:42 AM - Re: Super RV's (Finn Lassen)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: Super RV's (Finn Lassen)
20. 10:59 AM - Email Address (Bell, Bruce B.)
21. 11:37 AM - Re: Super RV's (Canyon)
22. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: LED swivel map/night lights ( Help ) (Bill Dube)
23. 12:13 PM - Hot to Cool Flight (Wheeler North)
24. 12:42 PM - Re: Super RV's (Boyd C. Braem)
25. 12:46 PM - Dynon Update Report (Wheeler North)
26. 12:50 PM - Canoopy cuttin time (Al Grajek)
27. 12:54 PM - Re: This is easier than I thought. (Bob)
28. 01:07 PM - Re: Bendix throttle body/fuel line to fuel injector (Bob)
29. 01:59 PM - Lake County Airport (was: Hot to Cool Flight) (Bill Dube)
30. 02:45 PM - Re: Dynon Update Report (Randy Lervold)
31. 02:50 PM - Re: Dynon Update Report (Phil Birkelbach)
32. 03:26 PM - max ROC (David.vonLinsowe)
33. 03:30 PM - Re: Super RV's (Kevin Horton)
34. 03:53 PM - Tee Shirts (Ken Brooks)
35. 03:56 PM - Re: Canoopy cuttin time (Jim Sears)
36. 04:10 PM - Furnace Creek to Leadville (John)
37. 04:13 PM - Re: Canoopy cuttin time (Jim Sears)
38. 04:25 PM - fuel float wire (Wayne Pedersen)
39. 04:28 PM - T&B or TC (J. R. Dial)
40. 04:58 PM - Re: Super RV's (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
41. 05:18 PM - Re: Furnace Creek to Leadville (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
42. 05:32 PM - Re: Furnace Creek to Leadville (Konrad Werner)
43. 05:32 PM - Engine bolts ()
44. 05:35 PM - Re: fuel float wire (Doug Gray)
45. 05:52 PM - Re: Humor - Delete Now (Kevin Horton)
46. 06:09 PM - Looking for E-Mail Address (David Schaefer)
47. 06:17 PM - Flying days (Austin)
48. 06:21 PM - Re: Super RV's (Doug Gray)
49. 07:00 PM - Re: Furnace Creek to Leadville (Michael McGee)
50. 07:06 PM - Re: Dynon Update Report (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
51. 07:14 PM - Re: Hot to Cool Flight (RV6 Flyer)
52. 07:21 PM - Re: Looking for E-Mail Address (Elsa & Henry)
53. 07:30 PM - Re: Super RV's (Finn Lassen)
54. 07:30 PM - Re: Humor - Delete Now (Tom Gummo)
55. 07:50 PM - Yaesu handheld nav/com (Rob W M Shipley)
56. 08:31 PM - Re: Super RV's (Jaye and Scott Jackson)
57. 08:38 PM - Re: Email Address (Vanremog@aol.com)
58. 08:43 PM - C/S prop spitting oil (Alex Peterson)
59. 08:57 PM - Re: Supporting the other ends of our gyros (Alex Peterson)
60. 09:01 PM - Re: Looking for E-Mail Address (Vanremog@aol.com)
61. 09:04 PM - Twelfth Annual Homewing RV Fly-In (Randall Henderson)
62. 09:44 PM - Re: C/S prop spitting oil (Tim Lewis)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I am considering
hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A when and if
they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed me that they
have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine weighs less than 200
lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to handle the extra HP?
Any thoughts?
Wayne
RV-8A qb
Wiring
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: graham jones <gratech2@bigpond.com>
Dick, and other Listers
What sort of primer should I use on my Tee shirt?..... and should I wash it
in Alumiprep or some other pre wash soaker before priming .......????
My mother always warned me about using harsh scourers on delicates so should
I get a softer grader of scotchbrite to rub it back???
Will the 567-3 AN rivets be enough to hold the edge seams together or should
I use Proseal (or RTV???) for extra strength???
Sorry, Couldn't resist.....
But please, please, PLEASE, EVERYBODY! Get over IT!!!! (This Tee shirt
thing!) MOVE ON, MOVE UP and GET A LIFE!!!!!
Jonesy in OZ...
Definitely - Do not archive !
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Photos |
--> RV-List message posted by: "graham jones" <gratech2@bigpond.com>
Hmmm, Only a two bladed prop up front..... I guess it's only a mule prop on
the engine at the moment but what will this thing climb like with a three
bladed MT stiring up the molecules???
Ahhhh, Lust is a wonderful thing.....
Jonesy in OZ
No Graham! You can't have one till you've built your 6A!!!!!!!......
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Removing a Sensenich prop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug and Bonnie" <dmedema@att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Removing a Sensenich prop
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug and Bonnie" <dmedema@att.net>
>
> I'm working on mounting my spinner on my Sensenich prop.
> The prop extension has two pins that insert into holes in
> the prop itself. I cleaned the pins with Scotch brite
> and polished the holes in the prop with Scotch brite and
> mounted the prop, spinner rear plate, and prop extension
> onto my engine. It was a tight fit, but I pulled the
> assembly tight using the prop bolts. I now have the
> spinner cutouts done and the spinner drilled to the
> rear mounting plate. I removed the prop, spinner rear
> plate, and prop extension from the engine and tried to
> separate them. No joy!
> Any suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM (reserved) nearly ready for the
Doug: When in doubt, call Sensenich. My removal method is as follows: On
a solid surface, block the prop/back plate/extension combination with wood
so that the extension is clear of the surface by an inch or more. If the
surface is concrete, place a wood guard on the floor to catch the extension.
Using a drift and suitable hammer (2# works well) drive the dowels out of
the prop a little at a time alternating so as to not cock the assy. The
drift needs to be hard enough and small enough in diameter that it doesn't
bind in the prop. I used a drill blank about 5"long and 1/32 smaller than
the hole in the prop. When assembling the combination, rather than use the
prop bolts to pull with, try the same hammer, a block of hardwood and a
solid surface. I don't know if you could stretch the bolts or not but you
might increase thread wear using them. The dowels basically drive the prop
and are supposed to be tight. They needn't be polished but should be clean.
If, after several mount, dismount events, the dowels are slightly out of
place in the extension, they can be repositioned using the above
techniques.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
p.s. Ed Zercher monitors this list and he may wish to comment.
GC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Handheld Radio Wiring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
List:
Okay you electronic gurus ... I need your help.
I have a Yaseau handheld for backup with the Icom A200 installed in my 8A. I
would like to be able to somehow get the Yaseau in line though my headset to
use in air to air communication. There are no y adaptors for this that I can
find.
I thought of trying to build up something myself but before going to the
trouble I am not sure it would even work ??? Thoughts?
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL
Greensboro, N.C.
73 hours !!
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
I'd suggest you install a couple of extra fuel tanks. Their reported low
fuel burn in the Sport Aviation article is pure bunk! See the article in
the latest Kit Planes, which have somewhat more realistic figures.
Expect at least double the fuel burn burn per horse power, compared to a
piston (and rotary) powered airplane!
Now you can't say you weren't warned!
Finn
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I am considering
hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A when and
if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed me that they
have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine weighs less than 200
lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to handle the extra HP?
Any thoughts?
>
>Wayne
>RV-8A qb
>Wiring
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ground adj rudder pedals RV8 QB |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Fromm" <jfromm1@hotmail.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com>
><Snip>
>Well, when I place my rudder pedal angles on the floor at the proper
>distance
>from each other and the proper distance from the centerline of the rivets
>that are already in the floor, the angles sit directly over the tops of the
>rivets in the firewall angle and in the gear box angle.
Geoff,
I had the exact same problem. I drilled out the rivets in both the gear box
and firewall angles, made a template to transfer the holes to the rudder
pedal angles and then put a blind rivet in both holes. I didn't call Van's
about it but figured that both rivets were important. The floor doesn't
seem that strong so I thought the whole structure should be tied together by
the more substantial angles at the firewall and gear tower. Of course this
was after I drilled the rudder pedal angle holes per the plans without
seeing how it would fit in the actual airplane. :-( Ended up ordering new
angles.
Jack Fromm
RV-8 QB
Engine baffles
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Infinity stick grip wiring logic |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
I put a switch to disconnect the ground from whichever stick in not in use
for electric trim.
Wayne Petrus
RV8A flying
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Removing a Sensenich prop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
If the prop extension is aluminum and the pins are steel, I would try
warming the two so that differential expansion would free the pins.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug and Bonnie" <dmedema@att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Removing a Sensenich prop
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug and Bonnie" <dmedema@att.net>
>
> I'm working on mounting my spinner on my Sensenich prop.
> The prop extension has two pins that insert into holes in
> the prop itself. I cleaned the pins with Scotch brite
> and polished the holes in the prop with Scotch brite and
> mounted the prop, spinner rear plate, and prop extension
> onto my engine. It was a tight fit, but I pulled the
> assembly tight using the prop bolts. I now have the
> spinner cutouts done and the spinner drilled to the
> rear mounting plate. I removed the prop, spinner rear
> plate, and prop extension from the engine and tried to
> separate them. No joy!
>
> I made a "gear puller" of sorts by using some 3/8"
> threaded rods pushing on a washer which pushed on the pin.
> I put some nuts on the threaded rod and placed a 1/4" piece
> of steel over the two pieces of threaded rod. I could raise
> this piece of steel by moving the nuts. I then put two pieces
> of 1/4" steel across the first piece and tied them to the
> prop using the straps Van supplied with the wing kit.
> Turning the nuts so as to raise the steel cross bar resulted
> in the 1/4" steel bending! I suppose I could get some
> thicker steel, but there seems like there has to be a better
> way.
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM (reserved) nearly ready for the
> airport!
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | jerry s / i did photos albany |
--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
Jerry,
Sent first e-mail direct to you but it came back for some reason.
Yep that was me doing the airplane photos in Albany.
Wish we still had a place on the airport for breakfast. I really miss all the
Independence guys that used to come every week. We still meet every Sat. at
7:00 at Yaquina Bay restaurant a crossed the freeway by McDonnalds. even have
a few people from out of town stop in. If you come and don't want to walk the
3/4 mile give me a call the day before and I'll be glad to give you a ride.
try it sometime.
do not archive
Jerry Wilken
Albany Or.
541-926-8316
RV6A 104 hrs.
N699WP
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I am
>considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
>when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed
>me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
>weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to
>handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
>
>Wayne
>RV-8A qb
>Wiring
>
I can't address the airframe beef-up question, but you will most definitely
be in for a major league amount of front end work. The lighter engine will
require a much more forward location for CG reasons. I'd make contact with
the RV4 driver with this engine installed for particulars on
installation/operation of this engine in an RV airframe. If that engine
could put out 290hp continuously, it would be beeeeutifull in the RV-10!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Removing a Sensenich prop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Doug,
You have to drive the two pins that came with the prop extension, out of
prop and back into the extension all the way in to clear the prop. That is
the gist of what Sensenich writes in their manual. Use a heavy duty~3/8" dia
flat end drift to do the job.(Sears sells them). Suggest you wrap the end of
the drift with several turns of tape to prevent it contacting the sides of
the bores in the prop, which could mar them. You will also have to use a
heavy hammer (~4-5 lbs) to pound the drift. Don't forget to use eye
protection to prevent injury, while pounding, in the event that a chip flies
off the drift.
Good Luck-------- Cheers!! ----Henry Hore
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
I just got through reading that article and it reports a fuel burn of about
9-10gph, but that's a smaller turbine. ATP "says" they got there engine at
13.5gph at full throttle with the new electronic fuel injection at sea level
and there seeing much more than 200hp! What are you using as a basis to
call these numbers "bunk"?
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Super RV's
> --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>
> I'd suggest you install a couple of extra fuel tanks. Their reported low
> fuel burn in the Sport Aviation article is pure bunk! See the article in
> the latest Kit Planes, which have somewhat more realistic figures.
>
> Expect at least double the fuel burn burn per horse power, compared to a
> piston (and rotary) powered airplane!
>
> Now you can't say you weren't warned!
>
> Finn
>
> Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
<commando@cox-internet.com>
> >
> >I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I
am considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed
me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to
handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
> >
> >Wayne
> >RV-8A qb
> >Wiring
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Super RV's
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> >
> >I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I
am
> >considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
> >when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP
informed
> >me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
> >weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required
to
> >handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
> >
> >Wayne
> >RV-8A qb
> >Wiring
> >
>
> I can't address the airframe beef-up question, but you will most
definitely
> be in for a major league amount of front end work. The lighter engine
will
> require a much more forward location for CG reasons. I'd make contact with
> the RV4 driver with this engine installed for particulars on
> installation/operation of this engine in an RV airframe. If that engine
> could put out 290hp continuously, it would be beeeeutifull in the RV-10!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
> ATP are the one's who put it in the RV-4 and they say the engine requires
a more frontal position of about 10". I don't know if this would take care
of the hole problem though. The nose wheel would also have to be moved
forward.
Wayne
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I would not count on that engine being available at all. They are pretty
much stopped dead in their tracks on any developement due to finanical
issues. Also call your insurance company and see what they say, the answer
will be "no way". At least thats what I was told a year ago, even Loyds
turned me down.
At 05:57 AM 5/12/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I am
>considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A when
>and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed me
>that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine weighs
>less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to handle
>the extra HP? Any thoughts?
>
>Wayne
>RV-8A qb
>Wiring
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 16
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| Subject: | This is easier than I thought. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@boulder.nist.gov>
After spending months getting the crap cleaned out of the garage and
setting up my shop, I started actually building the tail of my RV-7A this
weekend. I spent about 10 hours working and I got a surprising amount done.
I'm just drilled all the holes in the left HS skin and I'm about to
disassemble the left HS for deburring and dimpling. I figure that I am
about 15% complete on the tail.
The kit and instructions are very well done. The parts seem high-quality
and the instructions are clear and concise. The pre-punch is almost
"cheating". :-) So far, I'm really enjoying the assembly process. At this
point, I'm leaning away from the "quick build", but I'll wait until the
tail is complete to decide.
Tool stuff:
I made my own fluting pliers. They work great. This kind of shows how much
I like to build things myself.
A small cordless screwdriver is the best way to twist the deburring tool.
The V style deburring tool is a must, as is the ScotchBrite deburring wheel.
I bought a Vixen file, but I haven't used it much. The bench belt/disk
sander, along with the ScotchBrite wheel and V deburring tool, seems to do
almost everything you might do with the Vixen file. The Vixen file was
useful for removing occasional "nubs and nits" from the sheared edges,
however.
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Great minds think alike! ;) reminds me of a Lancair IVP - T in Abilene
last year! made it from Las Vegas to Abilene in some increadible time like
3-3.5 hrs. RV-10T might not make that kind of time, but it's a project to
think about!
do not archive
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
>I can't address the airframe beef-up question, but you will most definitely
>be in for a major league amount of front end work. The lighter engine will
>require a much more forward location for CG reasons. I'd make contact with
>the RV4 driver with this engine installed for particulars on
>installation/operation of this engine in an RV airframe. If that engine
>could put out 290hp continuously, it would be beeeeutifull in the RV-10!
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Here data from two people that's a lot more knowledgeable than me:
>Several reasons. The main one I think is the limited compression ratio
>> one can obtain with a single stage of centrifugal compressor
>> is only about 3:1. These APU engines are made from glorified turbo chargers.
>> Fuel consumption was of little consequence.
>>
>> The Mazda rotary is up to about 10:1 CR and a diesel
>> is up to about 20:1 Modern axial flow turbo fan compressors are over
>> 8:1 I think. Another is the compressor and turbine clearance
>> is critical and as you make it smaller the clearance gap becomes a larger
>> and larger percentage of the total leakage. The third thing is turbine inlet
>> temperature. Efficient high temp turbines are very expensive indeed.
>> Paul Lamar
>
>
>
>-Dan Ruggirello wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> Theoretically, it is possible to get the fuel efficiency they are claiming,
>>> realistically, impossible. I ran the numbers some time ago when I was
>>> interested in the ATP turbine. I plugged in some knowns and assumptions in
>>> a turbine analysis software package and these are the numbers needed to
>>> develop 200 HP:
>>>
>>> air flow rate : 126.5 gal/s (wow!)
>>> compressor pressure ratio : 4:1
>>> Turbine max exhaust temp : 1090 F
>>> fuel consumption : 15 gal/hr
>>> Shaft HP : 186.3 HP
>>> Thrust HP : 13.7 HP
>>> Total HP : 200 HP
>>> BSFC : 0.47
>>> thermal efficiency : 29%
>>> compressor efficiency : 100%
>>> turbine efficiency : 100%
>>> combustion efficiency : 100%
>>> gearbox efficiency : 100%
>>>
>>> Notes:
>>> The air flow rate required is astounding.
>>> The 4:1 compression ratio is possible only for a very well designed
>>> centrifugal compressor.
>>> ATP is using the full residual thrust to make up the 200HP. This is not
>>> realistic because the exhaust must be deflected and piped.
>>> The thermal efficiency is the best you can possibly ever attain using the
>>> Joule-Brayton cycle.
>>> The 100% compressor effeciencies are of course impossible. High
>>> efficiencies are typical for multi-stage compressors. But, this is a single
>>> stage compressor........
>>> The remaining 100% efficiencies are all of course also impossible.
>>>
>>> I defected from the ATP camp because I didn't believe their numbers and they
>>> couldn't supply the data to back them up like the prop thrust vs hp curves.
>>> I too believe they are operating a scam.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> PS - for those interested - here is the hand calc for thermal efficiency
>>> and fuel consumption -
>>> Best possible efficiency and gph calcs:
>>>
>>> Assumptions:
>>> Joule-Brayton thermal cycle applies
>>> constant specific heat, k = 1.4
>>> T1 = ambient temperature = 60 F
>>> P1 = ambient pressure = 14.7 psia
>>> P2/P1 = compressor pressure ratio = 4.0
>>> T4 = max turbine exit temp = 1090 F
>>> HV = heating value of JP4 = 18700 BTU/lb
>>> d = density of JP4@60F = 6.3lbs/gal
>>> no ram air pressure
>>> no regeneration gains
>>> isentropic, adiabatic compression and expansion
>>> adiabatic combustor
>>> 100% component efficiencies
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> n = thermal efficiency
>>> = useful work done/heat added
>>> = 1-1/((P2/P1)
((k-1)/k))
>>> = 1-1/((4
(1.4-1)/1.4))
>>> = 1-1/4
.286
>>> = .327 or 32.7%
>>>
>>> in terms of fuel consumption and HP:
>>> n = HP*2544/(HV*FC*d)
>>>
>>> where
>>> FC = fuel consumption (gal/hr)
>>> d = density of fuel = 6.7 lbs/gal
>>> HP = total power
>>> Assuming that total power is 200HP,
>>>
>>> FC = HP*2544/(HV*d*n)
>>> = 200*2544/(18700*6.3*.327)
>>> = 13.21 gal/hr
>>>
>>> Using variable specific heat, thermal efficiency is calculated to
>>> be ~31% (calcs not shown). Fuel consumption is then:
>>> FC= 200*2544/(18700*6.3*.31)
>>> = 13.98 gal/hr
>>
>>
>
>
>
Finn
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>I just got through reading that article and it reports a fuel burn of about
>9-10gph, but that's a smaller turbine. ATP "says" they got there engine at
>13.5gph at full throttle with the new electronic fuel injection at sea level
>and there seeing much more than 200hp! What are you using as a basis to
>call these numbers "bunk"?
>
>Wayne
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Super RV's
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>>
>>I'd suggest you install a couple of extra fuel tanks. Their reported low
>>fuel burn in the Sport Aviation article is pure bunk! See the article in
>>the latest Kit Planes, which have somewhat more realistic figures.
>>
>>Expect at least double the fuel burn burn per horse power, compared to a
>>piston (and rotary) powered airplane!
>>
>>Now you can't say you weren't warned!
>>
>>Finn
>>
>>Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
>>>
>>>
><commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>
>>>I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I
>>>
>>>
>am considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
>when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed
>me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
>weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to
>handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
>
>
>>>Wayne
>>>RV-8A qb
>>>Wiring
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Put simply: there is no way you are going to see a BSFC (brake specific
fuel comsumption) of .41 (or less) at sea level in a single stage jet
engine. No way!
Investigate it yourself: Talk to guys who's flying jets, especially new
high efficiency jet engines. Ask them about fuel flow vs. horse power at
sea level and at what altitude jets start to become fuel efficient.
Finn
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>I just got through reading that article and it reports a fuel burn of about
>9-10gph, but that's a smaller turbine. ATP "says" they got there engine at
>13.5gph at full throttle with the new electronic fuel injection at sea level
>and there seeing much more than 200hp! What are you using as a basis to
>call these numbers "bunk"?
>
>Wayne
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Super RV's
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>>
>>I'd suggest you install a couple of extra fuel tanks. Their reported low
>>fuel burn in the Sport Aviation article is pure bunk! See the article in
>>the latest Kit Planes, which have somewhat more realistic figures.
>>
>>Expect at least double the fuel burn burn per horse power, compared to a
>>piston (and rotary) powered airplane!
>>
>>Now you can't say you weren't warned!
>>
>>Finn
>>
>>Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
>>>
>>>
><commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>
>>>I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I
>>>
>>>
>am considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
>when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed
>me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
>weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to
>handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
>
>
>>>Wayne
>>>RV-8A qb
>>>Wiring
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell@door.net>
Anyone on the list know Bruce Cruikshank's current email address?
Thanks,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Finn Lassen wrote:
>Ask them about fuel flow vs. horse power at
>sea level and at what altitude jets start to become fuel efficient.
---
OK -- I'll bite. :-)
At what altitude? And how about some of the older mil surplus small
pure jets -- worth fooling with or overhauling? Of course that would
be a tough surgery placing that in an RV but Quixote might enjoy it.
Steve
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | re: LED swivel map/night lights ( Help ) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@boulder.nist.gov>
Here is an LED gooseneck unit that plugs into a USB port that might do
the
trick. You could mount a female USB connector in the panel and wire up a
voltage regulator (~$1) to drop the bus voltage down to the 5 volts the
light needs.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Hot to Cool Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Hey,
has anybody ever done a flight from Furnace Creek CA to Leadville CO?
Roughly 534NM with a change in altitude of 10137'
Seems like it would be great fun to give it a go.
do not archive
Message 24
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Unfortunately, Finn is correct ( and, I don't mean it's unfortunate that
Finn is right, for a change, <grin> but that his info is right for
people that want jet engines). Although axial combustion engines
(danger, Will Robinson--not to include rotary Mazda engines in this
discussion) are getting better--right now, there is still no good
solution to the altitude/fuel flow/TAS problem--esp.!!! for a
single-stage jet engine. As far as I can tell from the literature, the
ATP engine is derived from an APU design, and *efficiency* was never
really put into any APU design that I've ever seen. I could be wrong
and, Lord knows, I've been wrong a lot--but, I have truly done my share
to contribute to global warming with all kinds of jet, turbine, fan,
turboprop, blah,blah, blah, blah blah.
There's a company down in Texas that puts Allison turbos in Bonanzas
(the whole mod deal is close to a cool million--but, my ol' brain pan is
starting to short circuit--and that price may not be currently
accurate)--but the biggest logistical deal of the mod is to squeeze fuel
into that Bonanza airframe so they can fly 1,000 mile legs with
reserves, and I'm not sure that they get even that.
So, for the present, anyone who claims to have an economical, relatively
high horsepower GA turbine engine for our little airplanes, still has a
lot of 'splaining (thank you, Ricky Ricardo) to do.
Boyd
RV-Super 6 (160 hp/11.5 gph@50% power) and I do hate myself for bringing
that up
do not archive
Finn Lassen wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>
>Put simply: there is no way you are going to see a BSFC (brake specific
>fuel comsumption) of .41 (or less) at sea level in a single stage jet
>engine. No way!
>Investigate it yourself: Talk to guys who's flying jets, especially new
>high efficiency jet engines. Ask them about fuel flow vs. horse power at
>sea level and at what altitude jets start to become fuel efficient.
>
>Finn
>
>Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>>
>>I just got through reading that article and it reports a fuel burn of about
>>9-10gph, but that's a smaller turbine. ATP "says" they got there engine at
>>13.5gph at full throttle with the new electronic fuel injection at sea level
>>and there seeing much more than 200hp! What are you using as a basis to
>>call these numbers "bunk"?
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Super RV's
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>>>
>>>I'd suggest you install a couple of extra fuel tanks. Their reported low
>>>fuel burn in the Sport Aviation article is pure bunk! See the article in
>>>the latest Kit Planes, which have somewhat more realistic figures.
>>>
>>>Expect at least double the fuel burn burn per horse power, compared to a
>>>piston (and rotary) powered airplane!
>>>
>>>Now you can't say you weren't warned!
>>>
>>>Finn
>>>
>>>Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>><commando@cox-internet.com>
>>
>>
>>>>I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>am considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
>>when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed
>>me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
>>weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to
>>handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Wayne
>>>>RV-8A qb
>>>>Wiring
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Dynon Update Report |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Folks,
After some discussion with Doug M. at Dynon I changed my static source for
the D-10 to be common with the other "Vans" twin static port.
The WX was kinda lousy until this weekend. So I finally got to fly it to
Columbia Apt from San Diego, for a camping outing. The two airspeeds were
glued to each other at all speeds/alt both ways. Total time in air 4:40.
The altitude is within 30 ft up to 9k but it sometimes lags by a few feet
when going up or down quickly (RV style).
The alt sometimes read about 30-40 ft off when on the ground, but it seems
to be much closer in flight.
I can hardly wait for the magnetometer and the pitot/AOA tube.
The one thing I miss on it though is TAS. It would be really nice to have
the scroll scale read in IAS with the digital readout displaying TAS. Hint
hint. A temp sensor in the magnetometer would allow for this.
The other thing that I didn't expect is its very difficult to get myself to
focus on the data in the D-10. My scan genes are trained to go all around
the panel and not stay in one place.
W
Message 26
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rv-list@matronics.com, vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Canoopy cuttin time |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
Listers:
I have searched the archives, but cant find what I am looking for. Does
anybidy know of a good website, etc, that shows and explains well, the
process of cutting and fitting the RV8 Canopy.
Thanks
Al Grajek
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: This is easier than I thought. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
> I bought a Vixen file, but I haven't used it much.
I ended up buying a entire set of files. I used them mostly on the
fuselage. Don't worry, you will get you money worth out of your files.
Bob
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Bendix throttle body/fuel line to fuel injector |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
I ran mine to the rear of the accessory case and through the back baffle to
the spider. I do get fuel vapor lock on the ground after engine shut
off. I am planning to modify the fuel line by running it through some scat
tubing that will receive ram air from the plenum area (back baffle). I have
seen this done on C 310 and Twin Comanches. All of my fuel lines FWF are
firesleeved.
Bob
>Need a bit of advice. I have a IO320 with a Bendix injection system. How
>should I route the fuel line between the throttle body and the fuel
>distributor which is mounted on top of the engine? Any help from guys with
>this setup is greatly appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Bill Griffin RV6
>Baltimore, MD
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Lake County Airport (was: Hot to Cool Flight) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@boulder.nist.gov>
At 01:12 PM 5/12/2003, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
>Hey,
>
>has anybody ever done a flight from Furnace Creek CA to Leadville CO?
>Roughly 534NM with a change in altitude of 10137'
>
>Seems like it would be great fun to give it a go.
At 9,740 feet AGL, density altitude makes the take-off roll
exciting, to say the least. You often need every bit of the 6,400 feet of
runway to get the wheels off with a lightly-loaded 172. Don't be too quick
to retract the flaps after you clear the runway. Luckily, there are no
trees to clear at either end of the runway. Perhaps they have been
previously "cleared" by folks that were loaded just a bit too heavily. :
)
You may have to leave some passengers or baggage behind on a hot
day. No joke.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Update Report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> The one thing I miss on it though is TAS. It would be really nice to have
> the scroll scale read in IAS with the digital readout displaying TAS. Hint
> hint. A temp sensor in the magnetometer would allow for this.
Wheeler,
Once you've lived with real time TAS you don't want to be without it. That
is precisely why I'm not upgrading to a D10 at this time. My Aircraft
Instruments Air Data Computer (ADC) has it and I love it.
(picure at http://www.aircraftinstruments.com/adc_features.htm). Glance at
the TAS and at the GPS groundspeed and you immediately know what's going on
with the winds. As you point out, TAS would require an OAT sensor. I
encouraged Dynon last summer at Arlington to add this feature to no avail.
To those that agree this is an important feature, please make your opinion
known to Dynon.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 307 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Update Report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
What did you use as a reference for the altitude measurements?
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon Update Report
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Folks,
>
> After some discussion with Doug M. at Dynon I changed my static source for
> the D-10 to be common with the other "Vans" twin static port.
>
> The WX was kinda lousy until this weekend. So I finally got to fly it to
> Columbia Apt from San Diego, for a camping outing. The two airspeeds were
> glued to each other at all speeds/alt both ways. Total time in air 4:40.
>
> The altitude is within 30 ft up to 9k but it sometimes lags by a few feet
> when going up or down quickly (RV style).
>
> The alt sometimes read about 30-40 ft off when on the ground, but it seems
> to be much closer in flight.
>
> I can hardly wait for the magnetometer and the pitot/AOA tube.
>
> The one thing I miss on it though is TAS. It would be really nice to have
> the scroll scale read in IAS with the digital readout displaying TAS. Hint
> hint. A temp sensor in the magnetometer would allow for this.
>
> The other thing that I didn't expect is its very difficult to get myself
to
> focus on the data in the D-10. My scan genes are trained to go all around
> the panel and not stay in one place.
>
> W
>
>
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
Hi guys,
I'm curious as to what airspeed you're getting max rate of climb in a 180 hp, RV-6
with a C/S prop? I'm doing some prop comparison testing and would like to
start somewhere in the ball park. Since the VSI is pegged and I don't have room
for something like the Rocky Mountain Micro Encoder, I'll be timing the altitude
blocks.
Thanks,
Dave
RV-6 O-360 C/S
The need for (more) speed
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
The numbers I have seen for Allison 250 turboprops show a brake
specific fuel consumption of about 0.65 lb fuel/hr per hp, or higher.
The Allison 250 was designed as an aviation engine, so minimizing
fuel consumption would have been a design goal. Allison 250s put out
300 - 500 hp (roughly), depending on the model.
Turbine engines generally get less efficient as they get smaller, so
a smaller engine (like the ATP) would be expected to have a higher
BSFC. Add in the fact that low fuel consumption is not a design goal
for APUs, as they typically don't run more than a few minutes per
flight, and you must conclude that this engine would likely have a
BSFC of 0.7 or greater.
So, if it makes 200 hp, I would expect it to burn more like 140
lb/hr, or about 20 gph (Jet A is about 7 lb/gal). If it only burns
about 13.5 gph, I would suspect it wasn't putting out more than 135
shaft hp, plus perhaps a bit of thrust.
You should be awfully cautious about putting any money down until ATP
demonstrates that they can deliver engines that perform as they
claim, and are suitably reliable. Modern turbines are very reliable.
But the ATP probably has more in common with the turbines designed in
the 50s, which weren't nearly as reliable as the current generation.
Don't say we didn't warn you,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
At 10:13 -0500 12/5/03, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>I just got through reading that article and it reports a fuel burn of about
>9-10gph, but that's a smaller turbine. ATP "says" they got there engine at
>13.5gph at full throttle with the new electronic fuel injection at sea level
>and there seeing much more than 200hp! What are you using as a basis to
>call these numbers "bunk"?
>
>Wayne
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Super RV's
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>>
>> I'd suggest you install a couple of extra fuel tanks. Their reported low
>> fuel burn in the Sport Aviation article is pure bunk! See the article in
>> the latest Kit Planes, which have somewhat more realistic figures.
>>
>> Expect at least double the fuel burn burn per horse power, compared to a
>> piston (and rotary) powered airplane!
>>
>> Now you can't say you weren't warned!
>>
>> Finn
>>
>> Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>>
>> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
><commando@cox-internet.com>
>> >
>> >I would like to pose a question to the super RV owners and builders. I
>am considering hanging one of "Affordable Turbine Powers" engines on my 8A
>when and if they come available this summer. Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed
>me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from this engine. The engine
>weighs less than 200 lbs. Would any beef-up of the airframe be required to
>handle the extra HP? Any thoughts?
>> >
>> >Wayne
>> >RV-8A qb
>> >Wiring
>> >
> > >
> > >
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
Gee, DICK. . .
I don't think that last Signature block admonition is RV-related! Tch,
tch! Naughty, naughty! Get a life. Kindly do not archive.
Dick DeCramer
diesel@rconnect.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Canoopy cuttin time |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Grajek <algrajek@msn.com>
<rv8list@yahoogroups.com>; <rv-list@matronics.com>;
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: Canoopy cuttin time
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
>
> Listers:
> I have searched the archives, but cant find what I am looking for. Does
> anybidy know of a good website, etc, that shows and explains well, the
> process of cutting and fitting the RV8 Canopy.
> Thanks
> Al Grajek
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Furnace Creek to Leadville |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
I don't fully agree regarding needing all that 6,400 feet of runway at
Leadville to get off. Perhaps in a heavily loaded C-172 on a hot day, but in
my 160HP fixed pitch prop RV6A I go in and out of Leadville (pattern
altitude 10,700) with no real noticable difference than when operating from
Salida at 7,500 ft. I certainly don't need more than 1000 feet or so and I
have been in and out of Leadville perhaps 20 times.
The only real difference I see is their coffee isn't so good !
FWIW John at Salida, CO
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Canoopy cuttin time |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
Please excuse my goof. I sent my previous message by accident. That's what happens
when one hits the send button instead of the cut button. :-( I sent a
note to Al off line because he's a local and one of our building buddies. Jim
Render and I are currently cutting and fitting the canopy to Jim's -9A. I can
show Al some of that, if he wishes to drop by.
BTW, I found that doing the slider canopy with Jim's RV is pretty simple. I was
dreading it; but, it's not been that bad. I have to admit that I dreaded doing
my tip up canopy on my -6A; but, I got through it just fine. :-) The neat
thing was that we didn't have the plexi on the fuse for the first time until
I'd cut it across the bow. Now, that sure is different than my old Orndorff
tapes! When we finally did put it on the fuse, the darned thing was pretty close
to being ready to drill. Neat!
Jim Sears in KY
Do not archive
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne@pedersentransport.com>
I bent the wire of the fuel float in the wrong direction. If I bend it back
I fear that I will have weakened the wire and a potentially break. The NAPA
store says I can only buy the wire with the sender. Anybody know where I can
source just the fuel float wire by its self ?
Thanks
Wayne
RV 7a tanks
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
I have a free Turn & Bank or I can buy a Turn Coordinator. I
know the difference in both but for partial panel only in emergency is
there a good reason to prefer one over the other. This RV6 is not
intended to be
an IFR airplane. Can answer off list if you prefer.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 40
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--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
In a message dated 05/12/2003 4:03:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
commando@cox-internet.com writes:
> Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from
> this engine. (Stuff Cut)
>
> Wayne
> RV-8A qb
> Wiring
>
You might want to get some real data from an independent source on this one.
In their recent article, they claim 10,000' in 11 minutes.
I can do better than that with 140 hp. 17,500' in around 15 minutes. The
first 10,000' is the easy part.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A engine MT electric CS propeller
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Furnace Creek to Leadville |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
John wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
> I don't fully agree regarding needing all that 6,400 feet of runway at
> Leadville to get off. Perhaps in a heavily loaded C-172 on a hot day, but in
> my 160HP fixed pitch prop RV6A I go in and out of Leadville (pattern
> altitude 10,700) with no real noticable difference than when operating from
> Salida at 7,500 ft. I certainly don't need more than 1000 feet or so and I
> have been in and out of Leadville perhaps 20 times.
>
> The only real difference I see is their coffee isn't so good !
>
> FWIW John at Salida, CO
>
> _
Do not archive
I just wonder if the coffee water ever boils...
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Furnace Creek to Leadville |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
Dear John,
Your comparison is like Apples vs. Oranges for Performance #'s.
I do believe your numbers in respect to your sporty RV 2-Seater.
However:
What is your -6A's Service Ceiling & Climb Rate at Sealevel?
What is a C-172's Service Ceiling & Climb Rate at Sealevel?
The engine may be the same, but not the frame (and mission)!
(It's like putting the 350cid Chevy into a Camaro "OR" a PickUp.)
P.S.: Who wouldn't rather fly a -6A out of Leadville than a -172, (or out
of any other place for that matter)!
Keep smiling!
Konrad
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
Subject: RV-List: Furnace Creek to Leadville
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
> I don't fully agree regarding needing all that 6,400 feet of runway at
> Leadville to get off. Perhaps in a heavily loaded C-172 on a hot day, but
in
> my 160HP fixed pitch prop RV6A I go in and out of Leadville (pattern
> altitude 10,700) with no real noticable difference than when operating
from
> Salida at 7,500 ft. I certainly don't need more than 1000 feet or so and I
> have been in and out of Leadville perhaps 20 times.
>
> The only real difference I see is their coffee isn't so good !
>
> FWIW John at Salida, CO
>
>
Message 43
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--> RV-List message posted by: <nauga@brick.net>
I'm stuck away from the hangar for a few days
and forgot to write stuff down last night.
Can anyone tell me the bolt sizes (diameter
and/or thread size) for the alternator bracket
bolts (boss mount) and that single odd-size
baffle mount bolt on the outboard backside of
the #4 cylinder (Lyc O-320)?
Thanks,
Dave Hyde
nauga@brick.net
RV-4, the last 10%
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: fuel float wire |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
I remember something about this in the 18years of Rvator I think. The
tip was rather than bending it back, twist the wire leading to the
eroneous bend through 180 degrees to put the bend in the correct direction.
Doug Gray
Wayne Pedersen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne@pedersentransport.com>
>
> I bent the wire of the fuel float in the wrong direction. If I bend it back
> I fear that I will have weakened the wire and a potentially break. The NAPA
> store says I can only buy the wire with the sender. Anybody know where I can
> source just the fuel float wire by its self ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne
> RV 7a tanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Humor - Delete Now |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
>
>T-Shirt, What T-Shirt, Where T-Shirt!
>We don't need any stinking T-Shirts.
>
>Sorry. :-)
>
>
>The other day, I was washing the plane when a group of people came up and
>asked if they could look at the plane. They were a A&P class with their
>instructor. After a couple minutes they started to leave when the
>instructor said "From the look of the bug pattern on the plane, I think you
>should fly higher."
>
>God, I love living here in the high desert of Southern Calif where one
>minute after TO, I can fly as low as I can go without seeing another soul.
>However, yesterday as I crested a small hill, I flew over a flock of sheep.
>The slowest Rocket is fast enough to be gone before the sheep could even
>react. Damn it was fun.
>
>Unsigned to protect the guilty.
>
>do not archive
Man it must have been scary back in the days when you were a fighter
pilot and sheep were afraid :)
--
Kevin Horton
If the shot is there, you just have to take it
Message 46
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| Subject: | Looking for E-Mail Address |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
I'm trying to locate an e-mail address or phone number for Ken Barto.
If anyone can help me, I'd appreciate it.
David Schaefer
RV6-A
Message 47
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin" <6430@axion.net>
Hi Listers,
Bear with me if you can, and delete if you cannot, but
after Tee Shirt debate etc., and how guys want to talk RV stuff ( which is
good), and now that I am flying again, I forget that there are still guys
who are just banging together the tail group.
Well, this is for you.
You have a long way to go, but if you keep the faith and do something almost
every day, you will have many days like I had today.
We had turbulence today, and low ceilings and not so good vis.,
but did I have a blast today.
Again, I want to emphasize that if I can fly this jumping bean then ANYBODY
can, and have mucho fun in the doing....
First off, I got a friend to put me through some BASIC instrument chores.
I mean BASIC, because I have no gyros and am too poor to put anything else
in there, ( which keeps the airplane light and very quick and silky
responsive ), so we first tried procedure turns and let downs under the hood
and these are so valuable drills, and I did not cheat, and did an acceptable
job for a rusty old builder.
Then, we tried no flap approaches in turbulence and cross wind component
along with wind shear over the numbers that made me keep compensating and
using more runway than I wanted, but amazingly, even after a full stop, with
two guys, full tanks, warm day, wind shear, we were off in only yards to try
it all over again.
Another thing about my RV that amazes me is how easily the RV maintains
airspeed and such a low RPM...downwind leg and slippery, and trying to slow
down without flap...( for practice ), she just floats along as though she
doesn't want to come down.
My pal says that an RV is such a versatile little runner that you can
fly out and around so many slower moving weather systems that you can make
your choice to run and avoid and get back to better stuff quicker than most
other airplanes.....I have to agree....what a sweet performer.
I sure love my Lycoming too..with an ANR kit in the headset, I
don't know if I prefer the transmission any better, but the noise and engine
harmonics are much nicer to tolerate...this old Lyc, especially when
throttled back in the circuit, is so quiet and smooth it almost makes you
wonder if you need any power at all.
I said before that I don't believe much in practicing circuits
because I only wear out tires and brakes and one landing can be totally
different from the last, so all I do is watch the numbers and the slope and
take the lights with a grain of salt, and try to let her settle.
Today though, I was thinking of the times the the instructor would cover up
the airspeed for landings, I would not have liked that today however,
because the wind and turbulence and shear kept me busy enough without
testing the gravity Gods.
I would like to try that later when I have more time.
A hard habit to break, was deadstick landings with no power at all, but then
again, an RV is no Cessna 120.
Van's video of a very short arrival and touchdown confirms what the airplane
really can do if you know her well.
Turbulence ain't all that much fun, but we can't always fly on glass smooth
days ..that's why my wife flys very seldom..at least with me....maybe she is
telling me something.....
But windy days put another factor into flying well and that should be the
mission...not like I used to do..take off, gaze at the ground, be a Sunday
tourist over what I could recognize and at the end of it all, hope I could
pull off a good landing and drive home at landing speed with a dumb grin,
thinking I had really done some aviating..
Each flight should teach something...hopefully..
As a matter of fact, one flight that I relish thinking about to this day
happened about 5 years ago when flying under a 1,000 foot ceiling with the
cloud base very dark and black and flat as a table top stretched as far as
you could see and under that was a bright wash of sun from off the sea,
bringing with it a stinging wind that was a real test for a casual flyer.
Radio was no great hell, as usual, but I got through and cleared straight in
and a big twin was about to join up and I fought my way down to the numbers
and touched on three points and made the slickest smoothest arrival I had
done in about 100 hours.
When I slid back the hood, the wind about took my hair and the control stick
with it, but the RV was stable and quiet as an old cow pony....and this, you
training wheel doubters, in a... gasp....tail dragger.....
I never fail to get a boot out of that title of a book...."Taming the tail
dragger "....
This last RV effort took me 4 years of steady going and I got rusty, but it
doesn't take long to get better and do the RV justice.
What I need to do now, is let her have the bit and run for as long as the
gas holds out...I plan some serious cross country and I'll bet the thrill
will never wear off, especially if I can fly and take pictures at the same
time.
Also, to fly in company with another RV is wondrous....it lets you see how
you must look from another seat and test your skills of maintaining exact
altitude, which imparts another sense of pride.
Finally, landing together and taxiing to the pumps always brings out the
guys who want to ask all about RVs and wither thou art bound and from whence
you came etc. and it never gets tiresome.
Many good days awaiting you.
The hours and expense is well spent.
Austin
do not archive
Message 48
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--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
I agree that things may not be ready just yet for the GT RV but I
encourage those who are trying to keep going. There is after all a
magnetic interest in GT for GA and I believe it will come.
I cannot talk about the efficiency verses size but what I can say is
that when I was at university in the early 70s I was hell bent on
putting a turbocharger on my motor car, the selection I had to choose
from were from diesel trucks and stationary engines, not very well
matched to my 1.5 litre 4 banger. But look now !!!
From the article in 'Sport Aviation' Mr Nearhoof may just be the person
who can address the engineering issues in coming up with an efficient GT
for our end of the Aviation industry. Personally I wish him the very
best and look forwad to what ATP can produce.
Doug Gray
>
>>Mr. Nearhoof of ATP informed me that they have seen as much as 290 hp from
>>this engine. (Stuff Cut)
>>
>>Wayne
> You might want to get some real data from an independent source on this one.
> In their recent article, they claim 10,000' in 11 minutes.
>
> I can do better than that with 140 hp. 17,500' in around 15 minutes. The
> first 10,000' is the easy part.
>
> Jim Ayers
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Furnace Creek to Leadville |
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
At 19:19 2003-05-12 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
><sisson@consolidated.net>
>
>John wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> >
> > I don't fully agree regarding needing all that 6,400 feet of runway at
> > Leadville to get off. Perhaps in a heavily loaded C-172 on a hot day,
> but in
> > my 160HP fixed pitch prop RV6A I go in and out of Leadville (pattern
> > altitude 10,700) with no real noticable difference than when operating from
> > Salida at 7,500 ft. I certainly don't need more than 1000 feet or so and I
> > have been in and out of Leadville perhaps 20 times.
> >
> > The only real difference I see is their coffee isn't so good !
> >
> > FWIW John at Salida, CO
> >
> > _
>
>Do not archive
>
>I just wonder if the coffee water ever boils...
It boils alright. It's just that the water's luke warm when you're trying
to make coffee.
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
Message 50
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| Subject: | Dynon Update Report |
tests=AWL,NO_REAL_NAME,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
USER_IN_WHITELIST
autolearn=ham version=2.53
--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
Randy I'm with you on the TAS. Dynon. Listen up!
I like my RMI unit cause I have it set to display TAS always.
Its the number I fly to and tells me how Im doing realitive to other trips.
I can nail a TAS and fuel flow, and EGT every time. Lets me know my plane is
doing what it is supposed to.
do not archive
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@rv-8.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Update Report
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> The one thing I miss on it though is TAS. It would be really nice to have
> the scroll scale read in IAS with the digital readout displaying TAS. Hint
> hint. A temp sensor in the magnetometer would allow for this.
Wheeler,
Once you've lived with real time TAS you don't want to be without it. That
is precisely why I'm not upgrading to a D10 at this time. My Aircraft
Instruments Air Data Computer (ADC) has it and I love it.
(picure at http://www.aircraftinstruments.com/adc_features.htm). Glance at
the TAS and at the GPS groundspeed and you immediately know what's going on
with the winds. As you point out, TAS would require an OAT sensor. I
encouraged Dynon last summer at Arlington to add this feature to no avail.
To those that agree this is an important feature, please make your opinion
known to Dynon.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 307 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Hot to Cool Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Paul Rosales and I have done that and took off in formation at both
airports. Was not a non-stop flight and it did not occur in the same month.
Density Altitude at Leadville was over 14,000 when we were there.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,274 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: Hot to Cool Flight
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Hey,
has anybody ever done a flight from Furnace Creek CA to Leadville CO?
Roughly 534NM with a change in altitude of 10137'
Seems like it would be great fun to give it a go.
do not archive
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for E-Mail Address |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Don't have his e-mail address, but I bought my tow-bar from him a few years
ago and his phone No. then was 315-622-2072
Cheers!!-----Henry Hore
Message 53
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--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
I'm the wrong person to ask. I don't fly jets or turbo props.
I think you have to get up in the high twenties. Low air resistance
(drag) yet can deliver full power.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to put one of these units in an RV,
as long as you realize you're probably going to double your fuel
consumption. Heck, I've even played with the idea of putting on in my
RV-3. The lesser weight should give an even more spectacular climb rate.
But to get 200 HP you are looking at a fuel flow of 30 GPH or more!
Either ATP are outright lying or their dyno is off by a factor of two.
Their numbers simply do not add up. An RV-4 should be flying well in
excess of 200 mph with 200 HP.
I still recommend the article in the June issue of Kitplanes. Numbers
quoted there make a lot more sense.
Finn
Canyon wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
>
>Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>
>>Ask them about fuel flow vs. horse power at
>>sea level and at what altitude jets start to become fuel efficient.
>>
>>
>---
>
>OK -- I'll bite. :-)
>
>At what altitude? And how about some of the older mil surplus small
>pure jets -- worth fooling with or overhauling? Of course that would
>be a tough surgery placing that in an RV but Quixote might enjoy it.
>
>Steve
>
>
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Humor - Delete Now |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
do not archive
Kevin,
I got to learn about low level flying while assigned to Turkey in the earily
70's. If there were any rules, there wasn't anybody to report them (or
telephones to call the base). We just flew as low as we wanted. Of course,
a four-ship of F-4s would scare the sh*t out of the sheep. It was a great
learning experience. I started at about 500 agl (my comfort level) and
slowly worked my way down to 100 feet (Air Force minimum). I might have
broken that rule a couple of times but 100 feet at 480 knots GS is fun
enough.
I was and am still married to a great lady so the sheep didn't have anything
to fear from me in other ways. :-)
Looking forward to your next visit to Southern Calif. This time a rocket
ride will be available.
Tom
Keep pounding those rivets, you can't believe how much fun flying a baby
fighter plane, i.e., an RV is.
>
> Man it must have been scary back in the days when you were a fighter
> pilot and sheep were afraid :)
> --
> Kevin Horton
> If the shot is there, you just have to take it
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Yaesu handheld nav/com |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
My many thanks to all who offered suggestions when I asked for help a few weeks
ago when trying to identify the TX problem with my handheld.
I'm ashamed to admit that I don't remember who suggested that the battery pack,
(original 3 yr old NiCad), might be the problem.
This was right on the money! I used fresh alkalines in the back up power pack
and checked the TX function against a couple of handhelds and a panel mount whilst
down at SEE this weekend and got a nice nice clear signal.
I've been roaming the web, (Google), looking for a new power pack and found good
prices from the NiCad Lady and Sabah Oceanics. Any input on these sources or
suggestions for other vendors will be appreciated.
Thanks to all who responded. Fly safe.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage - now a canoe!!!
Message 56
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott@shaw.ca>
> I think you have to get up in the high twenties. Low air resistance
> (drag) yet can deliver full power.
>
Actually, it's a bit of both. Jet engines aren't supercharged, and their
power falls off with altitude too, but it still is a lot greater power than
a piston's for a given altitude. So the only savings is, as you stated, at a
high altitude where the draw is the almost doubling of true airspeed for a
given indicated airspeed.
Another factor is that the higher RPM the jet has to turn to produce the
required thrust at high altitude puts it into a turbine's lowest SFC
operating condition. this is determined during design as that's where the
engine will spend most of its operating life, and determine the range
perfromance and subsequent success of the individual airplane.
The turbine uses a lot of fuel to get up there, but, becomes quite
fuel-efficient once it's there. Imagine flying a single-engine jet trainer
and using over 60% of your fuel getting to cruising altitude, then being
able to continue all the way to destination on the remaining fuel. No wonder
turbine drivers bitch about being held down on departure and being forced
down too soon on descent.
So, despite the siren call of turbine power for my RV, there's a lot of
drawbacks. Turbine pilots pretty well have to have their very own oil well
out in the backyard. They are shackled with an airframe that has to carry a
lot more fuel to accomplish the same trip as a piston aircraft; whether
that's a safety concern is up to the individual. The engines are
subsceptible to inlet design and sensitive to throttle changes in
crosswinds, which can stall the inlet. They don't respond instantly to
acceleration commands; unlike just pouring more avgas into the cylinders to
keep the exhaust valves from melting, the turbine can only feed in enough
jet fuel to accelerate while not overtemping the turbine blades. This has to
be kept in mind on approach in varying wind speeds, where the lag can cause
one to get really slow at worst, and out-of-step with the power commands at
best.They can't breath filtered air , and this can seriously erode the blade
leading edges, reducing the little airfoils' efficiency, and wearing away
the clearance between the tip of the blades and the outer casing of the
engine, reducing the efficiency of individual compression stages. Pure
turbines-as opposed to turboprops- don't impart any benefit to the airframe
caused by propellor slipstream across the wing and over the elevator and
rudder on the tail. NO instant increase in lift by opening the throttle.
The higher altitude, despite being smooth and above most convective
activity, is no friend to the turbine either. The high rotational speed of
the turbine blades coupled with the thinner air leads to problems with
reduced stall margins on these tiny airfoils. So, now we have two potential
stallls we have to manage- the wing's and the engine's. And if your wife
doesn't mind arriving at destination with a bright, red circle around her
mounth and nose from the mask, and did I mention oxygen ear?
Having said all this, if it weren't for too many children, and being dumb
enough to saddle myself with a crushing mortgage, I, too, would have trouble
resisting the scent of Chanel JP4 instead of 100LowLife, and an airframe
that goes zoom-zoom while the engine goes hum, as opposed to
kapocketa-kapocketa....
Scott in Vancouver
-6, 60 hours
turbines-16000 hours
>
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Email Address |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 5/12/2003 11:01:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv4bell@door.net writes:
> Anyone on the list know Bruce Cruikshank's current email address?
He can be reached thru KS avionics. Contact info is in the Yeller Pages.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 602hrs)
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point
than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."---George
Bernard Shaw
Message 58
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| Subject: | C/S prop spitting oil |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
My apologies for asking an RV related question on the RV list (really -
if you are into t-shirts, etc., delete now).
My C/S prop (300 hours since new) has recently, but not consistently,
spit tiny oil droplets onto the passenger side windscreen. There is
evidence that this oil is coming from the root of one of the blades
(little streaks on the first 6 inches or so of blade). This happened
during the first 10 or 15 hours when the prop was new, and then went
away for a year and a half until at about 280 hours. Now, in about half
of the last 10 flights, there has been some mist on the right
windscreen. I would guess the entire amount of oil isn't even one drop
yet. I can imagine the seal at the blade root needs replacement, but can
anyone explain the sporadic nature of this? Air in the system? Flight
conditions are similar in each case, nothing unusual there.
Thanks,
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 297 hours
www.rvforum.org MAY 31st!!! Come one, come all!!!
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 59
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| Subject: | Supporting the other ends of our gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> What are you doing (have you done) to support the forward
> (back) ends of your long gyros?
>
> A couple of mine will go through the next forward bulkhead so
> I can probably rivet on a piece of angle and clamp the gyro
> to that. One (AI) is too short but is right on top of
> another (HSI) that goes through the next forward bulkhead - I
> was thinking of making up a spacer to put those two together
> and clamp them together using the support on the one that
> goes all the way through to hold both. Another of mine
> (S-Tec30 TC/AP) is also too short and is not close enough to
> another one to "lean" on.
>
> Your thoughts please,
I put some foam between instruments which were long (AH and HSI), just
in case they think about bumping. I agree with an earlier post though,
I wouldn't support them directly except at the panel. If the panel is
too floppy, I would be inclined to attach stiffeners to the panel.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 297 hours
www.rvforum.org MAY 31st!!
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for E-Mail Address |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 5/12/2003 6:11:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dschaefer1@kc.rr.com writes:
> I'm trying to locate an e-mail address or phone number for Ken Barto.
> If anyone can help me, I'd appreciate it.
>
The Yeller Pages has him listed.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 602hrs)
Message 61
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| Subject: | Twelfth Annual Homewing RV Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randall Henderson" <randallh@attbi.com>
Mark your calendars! The Twelfth Annual Home Wing RV Fly-In is coming up,
Saturday June 14 at Scappoose, OR Airport (56S). Check out the web page
www.vanshomewing.org for all the details (including a sneak preview of this
year's T-shirt art.) See you there!
Message 62
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owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: C/S prop spitting oil |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@earthlink.net>
I had the same problem at about 350 hrs TTSN. Turned out to be a grease
leak at the joint where the two halves of the prop hub come together.
Verified it by sparying dye penetrant "developer" (the white powder) in the
area... it turns dark where the leak is.
I ended up sending the prop to Hartzel for overhaul (which go me the new
hub that doesn't have the AD against it). I've heard of this problem more
than once on fairly new Hartzell CS props. I'm not impressed with this
aspect of their product.
Tim
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Subject: RV-List: C/S prop spitting oil
Date sent: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:43:06 -0500
Send reply to: rv-list@matronics.com
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> My apologies for asking an RV related question on the RV list (really -
> if you are into t-shirts, etc., delete now).
>
> My C/S prop (300 hours since new) has recently, but not consistently,
> spit tiny oil droplets onto the passenger side windscreen. There is
> evidence that this oil is coming from the root of one of the blades
> (little streaks on the first 6 inches or so of blade). This happened
> during the first 10 or 15 hours when the prop was new, and then went
> away for a year and a half until at about 280 hours. Now, in about half
> of the last 10 flights, there has been some mist on the right
> windscreen. I would guess the entire amount of oil isn't even one drop
> yet. I can imagine the seal at the blade root needs replacement, but can
> anyone explain the sporadic nature of this? Air in the system? Flight
> conditions are similar in each case, nothing unusual there.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 297 hours
> www.rvforum.org MAY 31st!!! Come one, come all!!!
>
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
>
>
>
>
******
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
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