Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:28 AM - Lycoming 320-E2A (Neil Henderson)
2. 04:38 AM - RV-8 canopy (Parker43rp@aol.com)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: Fuel Valve Concerns (Alex Peterson)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: RPM Limitations (Dwpetrus@aol.com)
5. 05:39 AM - Re: RPM Limitations (Alex Peterson)
6. 05:45 AM - Re: RPM Limitations (Dwpetrus@aol.com)
7. 06:42 AM - Re: RPM Limitations (Dougpsr@aol.com)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: RPM Limitations (Dougpsr@aol.com)
9. 06:44 AM - Re: RPM Limitations (Dougpsr@aol.com)
10. 06:54 AM - Re: Duckworks lights (Ernest Kells)
11. 06:55 AM - Firewall - Asbestos Washers (Ernest Kells)
12. 07:02 AM - Re: Lycoming 320-E2A (Tedd McHenry)
13. 07:19 AM - Re: TEL (John Brick)
14. 07:24 AM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Brian Denk)
15. 07:56 AM - Re: Firewall - Asbestos Washers (Elsa & Henry)
16. 07:56 AM - RV-6 For Sale (Dave Pinegar)
17. 08:00 AM - Re: Lycoming 320-E2A (Michael McGee)
18. 08:19 AM - Re: RV-10, oh No, an opinion!! (Norman)
19. 08:20 AM - Re: TEL (kempthornes)
20. 08:24 AM - Re: Firewall - Asbestos Washers (Bill Dube)
21. 08:54 AM - Re:Painting Question for the group (P M Condon)
22. 09:03 AM - Re: RV Turboprop (Jim Jewell)
23. 09:16 AM - Aeroplane Mag. (Schilling Karl)
24. 09:37 AM - Re: Re:Painting Question for the group (Kyle Boatright)
25. 09:49 AM - an interesting ride ..... (Rob W M Shipley)
26. 10:07 AM - off sub, curtesy car? (WPAerial@aol.com)
27. 10:41 AM - Re: Lycoming 320-E2A (Elsa & Henry)
28. 11:00 AM - Re: RV-8 canopy (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com)
29. 11:00 AM - Re: Non RV message to our veterans. (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com)
30. 12:22 PM - Re: off sub, curtesy car? (Neil McLeod)
31. 02:30 PM - RV-6 For Sale (Dave Pinegar)
32. 02:33 PM - fuel valve (Wheeler North)
33. 02:56 PM - Re: off sub, curtesy car? (Doug Rozendaal)
34. 02:59 PM - Re: RV-10, oh No, an opinion!! (Evan and Megan Johnson)
35. 03:27 PM - RV-8 canopy (Parker Thomas)
36. 07:05 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Meketa)
37. 07:11 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 05/26/03 (Christopher J Fortin)
38. 07:15 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (PASSPAT@aol.com)
39. 07:40 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Finn Lassen)
40. 09:10 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Meketa)
41. 09:45 PM - July's Air & Space Magazine (Kyle Boatright)
42. 10:19 PM - Re: TEL (Tedd McHenry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lycoming 320-E2A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
Lister's
I have just obtained a 320 for fitment to my RV9-A. It's been recently overhauled
and has only run for a couple of hours, 30 min's in the air, but that's another
story. I have a couple of questions.
Firstly, what precautions should I take in respect of corrosion protection. The
engine has only been drained of oil and is in my workshop sitting upside down
on an old tyre. I plan on fitting it to the air frame within the next 6/8 weeks
and hope to be flying about this time next year.
Secondly, it came with the original starter and 60A alternator. The seem in good
condition. Is there any reason other than weight saving why I could not use
them or should I replace them with a lightweight starter and a Honda type alternator.
Regards Neil Henderson n/r Aylesbury UK
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
Listers:
I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition that
disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the canopy, I
found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1 inch.
This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of 230 mph.
The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and understandably it
thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in service,
and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to a
windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an alternate
source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required tooling. He
can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and action
they have taken.
Ray
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fuel Valve Concerns |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> When I received my finishing kit for the 6A it had the newer
> valve, left off right or vise versa as well as good crisp
> dedents. Installed one in the 6 and changed the placard,
> really like it and the price is right.
BTW, Van's valve can be installed L-R-Off if one desires. I've heard on
this thread that folks don't like the L-Off-R scheme, so simply don't
install it that way. Mine is pointing 45 degrees to the left for L, 45
degrees to the right for R, and off requires pushing down a gate and
swinging it another 90 degrees towards aft.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RPM Limitations |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
I talked to tech support at Hartzell last week and he said there is a limit
to "avoid continuous operation above 2600 RPM for the 0360A1A.
Wayne Petrus
RV8A
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Is this perhaps the new scimitar shaped C/S? If it is the old (more
than a couple months ago) style C/S, there was no 2600 limitation. Not
really a factor anyway, no one would cruise at that type of RPM anyway
with a C/S.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
>
> I talked to tech support at Hartzell last week and he said
> there is a limit
> to "avoid continuous operation above 2600 RPM for the 0360A1A.
>
> Wayne Petrus
> RV8A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RPM Limitations |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com
My is the old style CS (1 year old) and the tech at Hartzell was very careful
and specific to make sure that I new about the recommended limits. The
number is
800-942-7767 if you would like to give them a call.
Wayne Petrus
RV8A flying
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RPM Limitations |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dougpsr@aol.com
Thanks Wayne.
Doug
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RPM Limitations |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dougpsr@aol.com
It is the old style. Looks like my limits are 2000-2350.
Thanks,
Doug
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RPM Limitations |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dougpsr@aol.com
OK. Not really a factor anyway.
Thanks.
Doug
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Duckworks lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
Ken and Others:
On page 6 of the Duckworks documentation, quote from Section 3.3
"The lights are biased for a nose-high final approach. Much adjustment is
available. Note: I originally flew my RV-6 500 hours with a wood prop.
When I changed to a constant speed prop the approaches became so steep that
I needed to re-aim my lights. So, aiming them through trial and error seems
to be required. "
I using two Duckworks lights for taxi and landing (on the outmost rib bays
on the wings). My weird logic figured that there would be less glare for
the left seat if the landing light was on the right wing. Since I am using
a wood prop I decided to use platenuts in all six holes (better access
during wing construction). For the taxi light I used the I used the
location on the template. I used the forward platenut to tip the landing
light forward. I wasn't very scientific - it would be easy enough to add
another platenut if I really screwed this up. The instructions are vague,
probably due to different a/c models, different prop types, etc. You won't
know for certain until your fly-off period. Good Luck.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90% Complete - for the last several months
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
> I've got the round Duckworks light going in an 8. The plans are a little
> confusing/contradictory about the platenuts on the ribs. The drawing shows
> two platenuts on the top of the rib, but the template only shows one. The
> plans say to drill six holes then it only says to install four platenuts.
I
> assume the extra hole is for more flexibility in aiming, but is this extra
> platenut not necessary anymore?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Firewall - Asbestos Washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
I am using Vans Stainless Steel firewall shields. For example, I plan to
use some MS35489-2.9 (AN932-2.9) firewall approved grommets. I would like
to use an asbestos shield as well. The only one that I can find is
MS25769-1. It just doesn't look right in the ACS catalogue. See AN900
gaskets on page 127 . I can't find anything else, anywhere else. What do
others use ? ? Do you just goop it up with proseal or high-temp RTV, etc ?
? Thanks.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90% Complete - same as the last several months
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming 320-E2A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> Firstly, what precautions should I take in respect of corrosion protection.
There's a good article on that by Eustace Bowhay at:
http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/eng_store_properly.shtml
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Brick" <jbrick@wolfenet.com>
More beating please...
I've been waiting for answers to some basic questions but haven't seen them
yet.
1. Don't cars have about the same compression ratios or even higher than the
aircraft engines we use?
2. Assuming yes to the first question, what is it about aircraft engines
that require leaded fuel to prevent detonation, when cars do not?
3. Transmission gearing? Seems like a constant speed prop is sort of
similar, no?
4. Variable ignition timing? FADEC should handle that, no?
5. Bore and valve size. Is that a player?
6. Anti-knock sensors are not the only reason, right?
7. Why are aircraft engines too noisy for anti-knock sensors? It's not just
the lack of a muffler and prop noise, is it?
jb
do not archive yet
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Although this has been beat to death...
The evidence is fairly straight forward. "Octane" is a rating system. Rating
systems means you are comparing to a standard. Examples are tire ply
ratings, and specific gravity. They compare to a standard, such as cotton
plys or the density of pure H2O.
Octane rating compares the detonation qualities of 100% pure iso-octane fuel
(I think its C8H18) to the blend being used. The original blends used to be
heptanes mixed with iso-octanes. They then found out they could cheat this
by using additives since the iso-octane was pricy and limited. Has has been
said, TEL was the best for the buck, but not drinkable. Hence the need for a
rating system that compared the anti-detonation characteristics of the fuel
with additives to that of the fuel made with only iso-octanes and heptanes.
But, the only way one could get get more then 100% iso-octane (ie 130/140,
etc.) was to add these additives.
Like asbestos is the best for brake linings, nothing works like TEL to
eliminate detonation, but fall out from both is kinda ichy.
In Diesel fuel they use a Cetane rating and this is almost the inverse of
the Octane rating (its the desire of the fuel to auto-boom) since Diesels
are self ignited.
And finally, knocking is detonation, it just isn't audible over the rest of
the aircraft noise, like it is in a car. The knock sensors used in cars are
listening for the high frequency shock wave that occurs during
pre-detonation and detonation. They then back off the timing a little until
it goes away.
do not archive
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
>
>Listers:
>
>I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition that
>disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the
>canopy, I
>found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1 inch.
>This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of 230
>mph.
>
>The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and understandably
>it
>thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in
>service,
>and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to a
>windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an
>alternate
>source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required tooling.
>He
>can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
>
>I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and action
>they have taken.
>
>Ray
>
ONE TENTH of an inch?? Holey Moley. That's not right. I'd make sure Van's
knows about it. I would also want a refund/replacement.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall - Asbestos Washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Not liking the idea of working with asbestos, I made my own washers by
taking a 4" long strip of 9oz fiberglass tape and coating both sides with
Hi-Temp RTV. When cured, I cut pieces to fit the insides of the shields and
holes as req'd for the wires or what ever.
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Pinegar" <dpinega@attglobal.net>
1991 RV-6, TTAF 980, Lyc 0320 D2J 300SMOH to factory new specs, cylinders
ported, polished, and flow balanced by Lycon. IFR equipped, fresh Imron
paint. Great interior. See pics and details at www.azavicon.com. $57,000.
Dave 928-925-0915.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming 320-E2A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
At 10:27 2003-05-27 +0100, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
>
>Lister's
>
>I have just obtained a 320 for fitment to my RV9-A. It's been recently
>overhauled and has only run for a couple of hours, 30 min's in the air,
>but that's another story. I have a couple of questions.
>
>Firstly, what precautions should I take in respect of corrosion
>protection. The engine has only been drained of oil and is in my workshop
>sitting upside down on an old tyre. I plan on fitting it to the air frame
>within the next 6/8 weeks and hope to be flying about this time next year.
>
>Secondly, it came with the original starter and 60A alternator. The seem
>in good condition. Is there any reason other than weight saving why I
>could not use them or should I replace them with a lightweight starter and
>a Honda type alternator.
>
>Regards Neil Henderson n/r Aylesbury UK
Are you going with a wood prop? If so, keep the heavy hardware. Even with
a metal prop I would wait until you fly it and see how much improvement
your W&B could really use. I'm assuming that with a -E2A you are not going
with a CS prop.
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10, oh No, an opinion!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
I'm a couple of weeks late in reading my mail, so here's an old thread...
> I think we can be reasonably certain that the proprietor of Van's aircraft
> has done a most careful market assessment for the RV-10 project and is
> confident the demand is there for the right 4-seat design.
>
> Everyone has an opinion so IMHO, the RV-10 is directed at the Cessna/Piper
> four seater replacement/upgrade market and not what might be called the
> "traditional RV sport aviator"
Here's my opinion just for fun. I think Van is building the 4 seater because
so many people hassled him for one. I also think Lanciar and a few others
are in for some sales troubles when Van's hits the market at less than half
the price of theirs.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
Do not archive opinions and rants
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 07:17 AM 5/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Brick" <jbrick@wolfenet.com>
>
>More beating please...
>
>I've been waiting for answers to some basic questions but haven't seen them
>yet.
>
>1. Don't cars have about the same compression ratios or even higher than the
>aircraft engines we use?
Yes.
>2. Assuming yes to the first question, what is it about aircraft engines
>that require leaded fuel to prevent detonation, when cars do not?
Combustion chamber design. Autos have sixty years progress.
>3. Transmission gearing? Seems like a constant speed prop is sort of
>similar, no?
No. With gearing the engine turns at a differing speed from the output
shaft. With CS prop only the pitch angle of the blades changes. CS prop =
good. Expensive due to low volume and competition.
>4. Variable ignition timing? FADEC should handle that, no?
I think the electronic ignitions available for Lycomings do to, don't
they? Easy to do.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall - Asbestos Washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@boulder.nist.gov>
At 07:47 AM 5/27/2003, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
>
>I am using Vans Stainless Steel firewall shields. For example, I plan to
>use some MS35489-2.9 (AN932-2.9) firewall approved grommets. I would like
>to use an asbestos shield as well. The only one that I can find is
>MS25769-1. It just doesn't look right in the ACS catalogue. See AN900
>gaskets on page 127 . I can't find anything else, anywhere else. What do
>others use ? ? Do you just goop it up with proseal or high-temp RTV, etc ?
You are not going to find asbestos products anywhere anymore. Any
company that makes or sells an asbestos product might as well sign over all
their assets to the lawyers ahead of time to save the anguish and expense
of going to court. :-)
One of the more well-known substitutes is Nomex. There are other
substitutes as well. It is likely that a number of the substitutes will
cause lung cancer as well, but it will be 30 years before we get the hard
data. :-)
>? Thanks.
>Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> 90% Complete - same as the last several months
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re:Painting Question for the group |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
I am looking for direction from the paint knowledgeable folks in the
group. What paint process is available that doesn't require a pressure
breathing system for the painter, is relative new (not old lacquer or
enamel), can be wet sanded and polished and looks pretty slick(wet) when
completed. I've followed the paint recommendations from the group by
reading the archives, but there is some conflicting data. Is a acrylic
enamel (DuPont centari or chroma-color) useable without being as deadly
to apply ? Is there something from PPG, Sherwin-Williams or Sickens
that folks are having success with ??
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RV Turboprop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Norman,
Has the Cascar season strated yet? When do you expect to be in this area
(Kelowna / Vernon) next?
How's the progress on the RV these days?
Will you be at Langley on the 7th?, I will be.
Might see you there.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Subject: RV-List: RV Turboprop
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> Hi guys and gals,
>
> I haven't been on the list in awhile due to job and racing season. Haven't
been building since Christmas break either due to same.
>
> My stalled project (airframe/interior/wiring complete, nothing firewall
forward) got me thinking, what's new in the way of powerplants coming up?
>
> Any one working on a small turboprop?
>
> If I'm going to be a part time builder for the next few years I may as
well keep my mind open to new options.
>
> What happened to the rotary from Powersport?
>
> Diesels from Europe?
>
> Regards,
> Norman Hunger
> CASCAR #96
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: Schilling Karl <Karl.Schilling@ssfhs.org>
This is off topic but I hope someone can help I am looking for a Jan. 03
issue of the British Mag. Aeroplane. I have tried for weeks to get one from
the publisher with no luck. There is a article in this issue about a friend
of mine and I would like to have a copy. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks Karl in Indy
RV-8 711KN
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re:Painting Question for the group |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Paul,
Any of the paints (Imron, Catalyzed Centari, Concept, etc.) that use a
catalyst *can* be deadly. The catalyst is the "big nasty".
I am unaware of any high quality paint that isn't a laquer or enamel which
doesn't require forced air respiration. If you do find a suitable paint
that fits your criteria, please follow-up to the list with the product name
and supplier(s), and then with progress reports as you go through the
painting process. Personally, I found the painting process (with the
breather, chem-suit, everlasting solvent fumes, etc) the worst of the worst
as far as the building process was concerned.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "P M Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Re:Painting Question for the group
> --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
> I am looking for direction from the paint knowledgeable folks in the
> group. What paint process is available that doesn't require a pressure
> breathing system for the painter, is relative new (not old lacquer or
> enamel), can be wet sanded and polished and looks pretty slick(wet) when
> completed. I've followed the paint recommendations from the group by
> reading the archives, but there is some conflicting data. Is a acrylic
> enamel (DuPont centari or chroma-color) useable without being as deadly
> to apply ? Is there something from PPG, Sherwin-Williams or Sickens
> that folks are having success with ??
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | an interesting ride ..... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob@RobsGlass.com>
Eustace Bowhay- Blind Bay, B.C. wrote -
When I have a choice I prefer a valve without the both position. Had a cover come
off on a C185 on floats equipped with long range tanks, both sides reading
3/4 on take-off with the fuel selector on both and the engine quit 25 minutes
later, both tanks competely dry. Was an interesting ride, was at 6000 on top
and the surface elevation around 1100 ft with 300 and 1/2 for ceiling and vis.
Well! What happened next?
Do not archive.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV Fuselage - now a canoe!!!
Message 26
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| Subject: | off sub, curtesy car? |
--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
What is the edict when an fbo gives you a car to go two miles to lunch? If
you don't buy gas from them how $$ much should you give them for car gas ect.?
do not archive
Jerry Wilken
Albany Or.
N699WP
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming 320-E2A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
I have read the article posted by Ted McHenry and it is essentially what
Atlantic Aviation* told me to do for long term storage. (*Where I got my
overhauled O-320). They told me to fill it up to the brim with auto engine
oil (I used Castrol GTX 10W30). Following their directions, I filled it
through the crankcase breather pipe. It took 26 1/2 liters of oil to fill
it! As there is always some of the valves that are open, oil will get into
the manifolds and upper parts of the cylinders, so all ports should be well
sealed. It will take some time for the oil to get into the upper part of the
cylinders, past the piston rings, which have both valves closed so after 6
months I was able to add more oil. After a year, I added some more and that
was it for the rest of the 4 years I had it stored. It is working great. I
have 40 hours on it now with an oil change at 20 hours at which time and we
just filled it with 5 quarts of which 1 quart was burned in the next 20
hours.
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
Message 28
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22, 2002) at 05/27/2003 02:00:36 PM
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
I am building an 8A as well. My canopy is about 1/8" thick at the front
windshield. I feel comfortable with the stock canopy supplied from Vans.
Glenn Williams
A&P
Fort Worth, Texas
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Non RV message to our veterans. |
22, 2002) at 05/27/2003 02:00:35 PM
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
thanks for your kind thoghts.
Glenn Williams
A&P
Fort Worth, Texas
Current millitary U.S.Army
Message 30
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| Subject: | off sub, curtesy car? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock@theriver.com>
I don't know about everyone else but I return the car full of gas and
always top off my plane as well. If for some reason I couldn't do that I
would give 'em 5 or 10 bucks.
Neil McLeod
Bisbee, AZ
7 QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
WPAerial@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: off sub, curtesy car?
--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
What is the edict when an fbo gives you a car to go two miles to lunch?
If
you don't buy gas from them how $$ much should you give them for car gas
ect.?
do not archive
Jerry Wilken
Albany Or.
N699WP
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Pinegar" <dpinega@attglobal.net>
1991 RV-6, TTAF 980, Lyc 0320 D2J 300SMOH to factory new specs, cylinders
ported, polished, and flow balanced by Lycon. IFR equipped, fresh Imron
paint. Great interior. See pics and details at www.azavicon.com. $57,000.
Dave 928-925-0915.
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
CFR Title 14 23.995 g 2
Although it doesn't apply to exp's its a good idea. Fuel valve may not pass
through any off position when switching from one tank to another. I would
rather have it feed from both then from none if it got left in the middle.
W
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: off sub, curtesy car? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
The Rules,
#1 ALWAYS leave it with more gas than you found it
#2 You should buy some (airplane) gas, if at all possible, even if it is
$1.50 higher than car gas at home, buy some. A rental car or a cab will
always be more expensive.
#3 Crew cars are for CREWS, not for the pax to drive to town and conduct
business. When that happens the rental car, or cab companies pressure the
airport or FBO management to drop crew cars because of lost rental business.
#4 Don't be gone for hours on end, because another CREW may show up and need
to get lunch.
Anyone who abuses crew car privileges should be shot, just like Richard
Daley, because, just like airports, they are a precious resource that used
to be everywhere. Each time some bonehead causes an FBO to drop their crew
car each and every one of our airplanes become less useful!
Thanks for asking....
Doug Rozendaal
> --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
>
> What is the edict when an fbo gives you a car to go two miles to lunch?
If
> you don't buy gas from them how $$ much should you give them for car gas
ect.?
>
> do not archive
>
> Jerry Wilken
> Albany Or.
> N699WP
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10, oh No, an opinion!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
You guys are going to love it!!!!! I got an up close look at the RV10 a few
days ago and it is a beauty. Tom Green was gracious enough to let me disrupt
his work day and give me a tour of the plant...including getting to put my
hands on the new plane. As of Friday no taxi tests were performed
yet...though it sure looks ready for it. I guess the hold up now is the fact
that it has no doors yet. At first glance it felt like a BIG plane.....then
I started comparing to other 4 place airplanes in my mind and realized its
not. Think about anything Cessna makes that will perform even close and you
will see what I mean. I sure want one now....and I bet there will be a HUGE
demand. Just as soon as the airplane world gets a good look. I used to think
that 310's were pretty cool...sure is a perspective changer.
Cheers.....Evan
www.evansaviationproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-10, oh No, an opinion!!
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> I'm a couple of weeks late in reading my mail, so here's an old thread...
>
> > I think we can be reasonably certain that the proprietor of Van's
aircraft
> > has done a most careful market assessment for the RV-10 project and is
> > confident the demand is there for the right 4-seat design.
> >
> > Everyone has an opinion so IMHO, the RV-10 is directed at the
Cessna/Piper
> > four seater replacement/upgrade market and not what might be called the
> > "traditional RV sport aviator"
>
> Here's my opinion just for fun. I think Van is building the 4 seater
because
> so many people hassled him for one. I also think Lanciar and a few others
> are in for some sales troubles when Van's hits the market at less than
half
> the price of theirs.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
> Do not archive opinions and rants
>
>
Message 35
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--> RV-List message posted by: Parker Thomas <me@parkerthomas.com>
Ray -
I just had something interesting (and frustrating) happen to my RV-8
canopy over the weekend. I wonder if it is related.
I spent the weekend in Death Valley, CA - among the hottest places on
earth. On the way back, we were flying along at 12.5 over the Sierras
and heard a loud bang. We couldn't identify it, but when I turned
around to look at my passenger I noticed a new 10 inch crack in the
canopy right behind the passenger's head.
The crack is a continuation of a 1 inch crack that happened while I was
building. I stop drilled that crack and it ended well under where the
top of the skirt began - only visible from the inside. The new one
starts over that crack - it is about 10 inches long and goes from the
bottom of the plexi to slightly less than halfway over. It looks awful.
I'm going to stop drill it and then leave it. Repairing it would mean
replacing the canopy and I'm not about to attempt that. At the bottom
of the crack the two edges are about 1/64 apart - you can just barely
slide a fingernail in. I can't help but think it had something to do
with leaving the plane sitting in the sun in the hottest place on the
planet for a day. But I figured it would have cooled off adequately
overnight by the time we left. Also, I have a hard time thinking that
while building I would have built it with enough stress in the plexi to
make something like this happen. I had to force the back end of the
canopy down onto the frame - which would seem to make the sides push
together, not want to pull apart.
I wonder how thick that material is.
Parker Thomas
N321PT flying with huge crack.
Frustrated in SF.
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" <acgm@gvtc.com>
Ray
With such a tall bubble the original 3/16 (0.187) inch thickness has
stretched to 53.4 % of the original thickness to get 0.100 inch. If
the same ratio holds true the 1/4 inch material will give you a thickness
of 0.133 inch at the same measuring point. Will that be enough extra
material to make a difference?
At what point are you measuring? The front of the windscreen will be
thicker than the top.
Will a slightly thicker windscreen give any real safety margin? If anything
struck is large enough to come thru Van's canopy I doubt if Todd's will
stop it.
George Meketa
RV8, 316.9 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: <Parker43rp@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
> --> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
>
> Listers:
>
> I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition that
> disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the
canopy, I
> found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1 inch.
> This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of
230 mph.
>
> The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and understandably
it
> thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in
service,
> and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to a
> windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an
alternate
> source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required tooling.
He
> can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
>
> I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and action
> they have taken.
>
> Ray
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 05/26/03 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Christopher J Fortin <cjfortin@juno.com>
John,
I think you hit a nerve. I don't think you could have done better if you
were a dentist.
Chris
> From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Turboprop/proving speed claims
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem"
> <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
> John--
>
> I am very lucky to still be alive, because when I was young I was
> concerned about trying to "impress" people with myself or my
> airplane.
> For what? If I enter a race and beat somebody that I know is
> slower
> than I am or lose to someone I know is faster than I am, what does
> that
> prove?--assuming pilot skills are relatively equal--and, going from
>
> there, in 'planes with close performance, if I beat a less
> experiened
> pilot or get beat by a more experienced pilot, what does that
> prove?
>
> The only person I care about impressing is ME. If I do something
> better
> or faster than I did yesterday, I am a happy man and I sleep very
> well
> that night. I really don't give a flying rat's ass what you or
> anyone
> else think--it just really doesn't matter. I still takes risks,
> esp.
> when I fly low and fast, but I consider them controlled risks, these
>
> days--because I practice for them--for example, I practice saying
> "Oh,
> shit!!!" a lot.
>
> Boyd.
> Venice, FL
> do not archive
>
>
> John Huft wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <aflyer@direcway.com>
> >
> >One thing I have noticed in my years of flying (34 in Sept.), is
> that the
> >more experienced a pilot is, the more conservative he is in all
> aspects of
> >his flying. When we are young and invincible, we are risk
> takers,<snip>
> >
> >One thing that is cracking me up lately is the number of people who
> CLAIM to
> >have O-so-fast airplanes, but never seem to enter a race. The Sun
> 100 is a
> >great BS filter. I can even think of a couple of listers who live
> in
> >Florida....
> >
> >John Huft RV8
> >Pagosa Springs, CO
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: PASSPAT@aol.com
Parker
Well I don't know what to tell you about situation but if you check
you will find out the expansion rates between steel (4130 chrome moly) and the
plexie are totally different when they either warmed up or cooled off they got
some stress and used the nearest point of relief being the previous crack!!!
yikes. I think this might be a valid scenario. Just my thoughts thats why I
insist on piper washers around the roll bar were the mass of still versis the
small amount of plexie. By the way HOW IS scout
Pat
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Did you make the holes in the canopy extra large or oblong to alow for
thermal expansion/contraction?
There's a significant difference in plexi and alu/steel thermal
expansion coefficient.
Finn
Parker Thomas wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Parker Thomas <me@parkerthomas.com>
>
>Ray -
>
>I just had something interesting (and frustrating) happen to my RV-8
>canopy over the weekend. I wonder if it is related.
>
>I spent the weekend in Death Valley, CA - among the hottest places on
>earth. On the way back, we were flying along at 12.5 over the Sierras
>and heard a loud bang. We couldn't identify it, but when I turned
>around to look at my passenger I noticed a new 10 inch crack in the
>canopy right behind the passenger's head.
>
>The crack is a continuation of a 1 inch crack that happened while I was
>building. I stop drilled that crack and it ended well under where the
>top of the skirt began - only visible from the inside. The new one
>starts over that crack - it is about 10 inches long and goes from the
>bottom of the plexi to slightly less than halfway over. It looks awful.
>I'm going to stop drill it and then leave it. Repairing it would mean
>replacing the canopy and I'm not about to attempt that. At the bottom
>of the crack the two edges are about 1/64 apart - you can just barely
>slide a fingernail in. I can't help but think it had something to do
>with leaving the plane sitting in the sun in the hottest place on the
>planet for a day. But I figured it would have cooled off adequately
>overnight by the time we left. Also, I have a hard time thinking that
>while building I would have built it with enough stress in the plexi to
>make something like this happen. I had to force the back end of the
>canopy down onto the frame - which would seem to make the sides push
>together, not want to pull apart.
>
>I wonder how thick that material is.
>
>Parker Thomas
>N321PT flying with huge crack.
>Frustrated in SF.
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" <acgm@gvtc.com>
Hello yall
It sounds like the canopy was set up for a failure. The starting place
for the crack was already there and the plexi was pulled onto the
frame. Add a little expansion/contraction, maybe more than a 100
degree temperature swing in 24 hours. Not too suprising.
While building I was extra careful to build no stress into the canopy.
I have seen many cracks on 8's around the rear frame step, at the very
rear and a couple at the front where the front hoop is welded. Only time
will tell whether I have been successful.
Here are the things I did:
1. Most important. Used no rivets at any time.
2. Have no fasteners holding the rear 6-8 inches on each side of the
plexi to the frame.
3. Have no fasteners near the step in the frame near where the rear bow
is welded.
4. Have no fasteners at the front of the plexi where front bow meets
the top horizontal tube.
5. Prosealed the plexi to the frame along the full length of the top
horizontal bar. A large irrigation syringe was used to run a bead along
the bottom of the frame with the assm. flipped upside down on
the bench. All holes are oversized with vacuum cap tips and counter
sunk trim washers used under clecos to center the holes in the plexi
with the holes in the frame while prosealing.
6. Used CS #6 screws to hold the skirt in place. All the holes in the plexi
are big enough for at least a loose #8. Used CS #4's with spacers as
required over the front bow. The frame was tapped for the screws.
7. Spent the time to fit the frame and plexi. The right rear side tube was
cut at the step and shortened. A lot of tweaking was done. The plexi
lies on the frame with only the slightest pressure needed to hold in
place.
8. All screw holes were rounded over and all edges where belt sanded
then blocked down with 400 sand paper.
9. Worked in the summer where the evening temps were in the low 90's.
I have been between the low teens and over a hundred on the ground
and well below zero to over a hundred in the air. The gap on the skirt has
never changed and the canopy has always opened and closed smoothly.
Another unlikely reason could be because the builder is being punished
for not letting a fellow builder know whether all the wiring diagrams he was
mailed had arrived and if they helped answer his questions.
Do Not Archive
George Meketa
RV8, N444TX, 316.9 hrs
> Ray -
>
> I just had something interesting (and frustrating) happen to my RV-8
> canopy over the weekend. I wonder if it is related.
>
> I spent the weekend in Death Valley, CA - among the hottest places on
> earth. On the way back, we were flying along at 12.5 over the Sierras
> and heard a loud bang. We couldn't identify it, but when I turned
> around to look at my passenger I noticed a new 10 inch crack in the
> canopy right behind the passenger's head.
>
> The crack is a continuation of a 1 inch crack that happened while I was
> building. I stop drilled that crack and it ended well under where the
> top of the skirt began - only visible from the inside. The new one
> starts over that crack - it is about 10 inches long and goes from the
> bottom of the plexi to slightly less than halfway over. It looks awful.
> I'm going to stop drill it and then leave it. Repairing it would mean
> replacing the canopy and I'm not about to attempt that. At the bottom
> of the crack the two edges are about 1/64 apart - you can just barely
> slide a fingernail in. I can't help but think it had something to do
> with leaving the plane sitting in the sun in the hottest place on the
> planet for a day. But I figured it would have cooled off adequately
> overnight by the time we left. Also, I have a hard time thinking that
> while building I would have built it with enough stress in the plexi to
> make something like this happen. I had to force the back end of the
> canopy down onto the frame - which would seem to make the sides push
> together, not want to pull apart.
>
> I wonder how thick that material is.
>
> Parker Thomas
> N321PT flying with huge crack.
> Frustrated in SF.
Message 41
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| Subject: | July's Air & Space Magazine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
The July 2003 issue of Air & Space Magazine has a couple of articles which might
be of interest to RV'ers...
1) An article on manufacturing wood propellors, featuring Sensenich and Sterba
props.
2) An article featuring pilots who test fly newly restored aircraft and who fly
other rare and/or exotic aircraft. This article primarily discusses those who
fly WWII warbirds, and has a few paragraphs and a picture of RV-Lister Doug
Rozendaal. Per the article, Doug is one of a dozen or so pilots who hold a Letter
of Authorization (LOA) to fly ALL piston engined aircraft.
Do not archive.
KB
Message 42
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> 1. Don't cars have about the same compression ratios or even higher than the
> aircraft engines we use?
Yes, and they'd be even higher except for the emission regulations. Hal is
right, combustion chamber design makes auto engines significantly more
resistant to detonation. Liquid cooling also helps.
When you run 100LL in an auto engine you can run 10.5:1 compression (or even
higher depending on the engine) and ignition advance up to nearly 40 degrees.
> 7. Why are aircraft engines too noisy for anti-knock sensors? It's not just
> the lack of a muffler and prop noise, is it?
I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if air cooling is a problem there,
too. Aircraft engines are a lot less rigid than auto engines, so they probably
"sing" at lower frequencies.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
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