Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:29 AM - Re: TEL/compression ratios (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: TEL (Alex Peterson)
3. 05:39 AM - Re: RV-8 canopy (DAVAWALKER@aol.com)
4. 05:40 AM - Engine Painting (Edward O'Connor)
5. 06:04 AM - Re: Engine Painting (Sam Buchanan)
6. 06:14 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 05/27/03 (Frazier, Vincent A)
7. 06:39 AM - Re: Engine Painting (Joe Hine)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: TEL (Tedd McHenry)
9. 07:22 AM - Re: Painting question for the group (P M Condon)
10. 08:11 AM - (Al Grajek)
11. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Painting question for the group (Scott Bilinski)
12. 08:47 AM - Re: wiring question (Scott Brumbelow)
13. 09:27 AM - Re: (Rob Miller)
14. 09:59 AM - Re: RV-8 canopy (czechsix@juno.com)
15. 10:19 AM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Bruce Gray)
16. 11:04 AM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
17. 12:27 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Greg Young)
18. 12:49 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Bruce Gray)
19. 12:50 PM - Re: Engine Painting (Doug Weiler)
20. 12:50 PM - Elevator/rudder cracks (Doug Weiler)
21. 12:50 PM - ferrite beads (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
22. 01:00 PM - "Out of the mouths of babes" (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
23. 01:04 PM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Garmin 196 (Bill VonDane)
24. 02:06 PM - Re: RV-8 canopy (Konrad Werner)
25. 02:09 PM - Re: "Out of the mouths of babes" (John Starn)
26. 02:34 PM - Engine Pickling (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
27. 03:08 PM - Re: (Jim Cimino)
28. 03:15 PM - Re: Engine Pickling (Gert)
29. 03:21 PM - Navaid Auto Pilot for sale. (Garry LeGare)
30. 03:55 PM - Re: "Out of the mouths of babes" (david just david)
31. 04:23 PM - New RV-10 Photo's on Van's web site! (Bob Hassel)
32. 04:44 PM - Plane FUN (Tom Gummo)
33. 04:53 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Alex Peterson)
34. 05:43 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Norman)
35. 05:44 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 05/27/03 (Wheeler North)
36. 06:01 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 05/27/03 (Wheeler North)
37. 06:08 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Alex Peterson)
38. 06:55 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Doug Weiler)
39. 06:59 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Doug Rozendaal)
40. 07:29 PM - Re: Engine Pickling (Dave Bristol)
41. 07:40 PM - Prop governor drive (Gert)
42. 08:16 PM - Re: Engine Pickling (Charlie & Tupper England)
43. 08:19 PM - Re: Prop governor drive (Mike Stephenson)
44. 09:23 PM - unsubscibe (ACEACORN@aol.com)
45. 10:14 PM - RV4 built by Wiley Harrington?? (kempthornes)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: TEL/compression ratios |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: TEL
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> > 1. Don't cars have about the same compression ratios or even higher than
the
> > aircraft engines we use?
There may be other factors to consider. The effective CR is often lower
than the numerical ratio. The increasing use of variable valve timing,
variable intake lengths and particularly the timing of valve events with
large overlap can result in compression pressures that resemble lower CR
numbers, especially in part throttle operations. Lycoming engines, with
their low working rpms and high relative power settings have conservative
valve timing and are apt to produce high pressures. When the auto engine
control modules can respond to detonation by changing ignition timing for
those times when compression pressures are high, lower anti-knock numbers in
the fuel are tolerable. I believe that aircooled engines are mechanically
noisier and the type of noise makes it harder to sense and discriminate
between that noise and combustion detonation. It is probably doable but as
a practical matter, not so far.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> > 1. Don't cars have about the same compression ratios or even higher
> > than the aircraft engines we use?
>
> Yes, and they'd be even higher except for the emission
> regulations. Hal is right, combustion chamber design makes
> auto engines significantly more resistant to detonation.
> Liquid cooling also helps.
>
> When you run 100LL in an auto engine you can run 10.5:1
> compression (or even higher depending on the engine) and
> ignition advance up to nearly 40 degrees.
>
> > 7. Why are aircraft engines too noisy for anti-knock
> sensors? It's not
> > just the lack of a muffler and prop noise, is it?
>
> I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if air cooling is a
> problem there, too. Aircraft engines are a lot less rigid
> than auto engines, so they probably "sing" at lower frequencies.
>
Those auto engines wouldn't do too well if their jugs were 5" to 6" in
diameter, and they were run at full throttle while at 2700 rpm when the
car was in overdrive while going uphill enough to keep the car from
accelerating. That would be apples to apples, sort of. Try that with
your manual transmission car sometime, and listen to the knocking. Then
do it for ten minutes straight.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: DAVAWALKER@aol.com
What are Piper washers?
D. Walker RV7
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Edward O'Connor" <edwardoconnor@compuserve.com>
I will be building up my XP 360 soon and in reading the Lyc overhaul manual,
there is a section on painting the engine. Pretty complicated from reading
it and lots of thinners and types of paints I had not considered.It
specifies the use of "Toluene" thinner and "Phtalate Resin type enamel".
Never heard of these. It specifies this for both the case and cylinders.
Can anyone who has painted their engine provide any advice on what is
required and how did you go about painting it. I have the Sky Ranch engine
book and am about to read it. The enging has also been zygloed or it looks
like it. Thanks
Ed O'Connor/RV-8/Panama City Fl
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Painting |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Edward O'Connor wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Edward O'Connor" <edwardoconnor@compuserve.com>
>
> I will be building up my XP 360 soon and in reading the Lyc overhaul manual,
> there is a section on painting the engine. Pretty complicated from reading
> it and lots of thinners and types of paints I had not considered.It
> specifies the use of "Toluene" thinner and "Phtalate Resin type enamel".
> Never heard of these. It specifies this for both the case and cylinders.
> Can anyone who has painted their engine provide any advice on what is
> required and how did you go about painting it. I have the Sky Ranch engine
> book and am about to read it. The enging has also been zygloed or it looks
> like it. Thanks
> Ed O'Connor/RV-8/Panama City Fl
I found PlastiCoat (sp?) engine enamel in aerosol cans to be very
durable on my engine. It is available at many auto parts stores. A
couple of cans was plenty to spray the case and accessories with 2-3
coats. The Millennium cylinders were left as delivered.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/overhaul.htm
Sam Buchanan
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 05/27/03 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
SNIP
I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition that
disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the canopy, I
found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1 inch.
This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of 230 mph.
The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and understandably it
thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in service,
and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to a
windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an alternate
source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required tooling. He
can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and action
they have taken.
Ray SNIP
I have a 1/4" bubble from Todd for my Rocket. I wanted a slightly custom shape
(taller and longer) and Todd handled it nicely. But the main reason I wanted
a thicker canopy is to give a little extra strength against all of the $%&*ing
birds that go whizzing past at 230mph!
One caveat... the 1/4" is noticably heavier. OTOH, it is noticably sturdier too.
Vince in Indiana
Rocket, plumbing time.
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe Hine" <joehine@rogers.com>
Alex
I just painted my case and accessorys with the same paint I painted the
airplane with. An Acrylic enamal. No problems so far (200 hrs). I painted
the cylinders with black engine paint from rattle cans.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Edward O'Connor
Subject: RV-List: Engine Painting
--> RV-List message posted by: "Edward O'Connor"
<edwardoconnor@compuserve.com>
I will be building up my XP 360 soon and in reading the Lyc overhaul manual,
there is a section on painting the engine. Pretty complicated from reading
it and lots of thinners and types of paints I had not considered.It
specifies the use of "Toluene" thinner and "Phtalate Resin type enamel".
Never heard of these. It specifies this for both the case and cylinders.
Can anyone who has painted their engine provide any advice on what is
required and how did you go about painting it. I have the Sky Ranch engine
book and am about to read it. The enging has also been zygloed or it looks
like it. Thanks
Ed O'Connor/RV-8/Panama City Fl
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> That would be apples to apples, sort of.
It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. An auto engine typically has a
much shorter stroke, giving it lower piston speeds at a given RPM. For an
apples-to-apples comparison, you'd want the same BMEP AND piston speed. That
would come from running your auto engine at WOT and something like 3500-4000
RPM, exactly as a typical auto conversion does. Then you'd find the auto
engine easily as happy as a Lycoming (slightly happier, actually, because of
the stiffer block, crankshaft, and rods).
Let's make an apples-to-apples comparison between your O-360 and the engine in
my 2003 Subaru (which happens to be the same engine Eggenfellner converts for
aircraft use). To match the conditions the Lycoming experiences at 2700 RPM
and WOT I'd have to run the Subaru at 3800 RPM and WOT. Not a problem and, in
fact, 3800 RPM is the low cruise RPM that Eggenfellner recommends. However, I
HAVE run my Subaru at 2700 RPM and WOT, and it was perfectly happy. The
equivalent to that for the O-360 would be 1920 RPM and WOT. Perhaps one of the
auto engine skeptics on this list would like to try that for a while on his
Lycoming and report back to us with the results?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Painting question for the group |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Right under my nose was a 10 month continuing article series in the EAA
Sport Aviation Mag. by Ron Alexander on painting your airplane. I've
painted cars in high school and did the body work thing so I am no
stranger...then again I am not a professional either (Didn't stay in a
Holiday Express either)
Randolph and Poly Fiber offer a urethane paint process that a charcoal
mask is the only breathing requirement, so I am looking into those
processes. The new water/cross link systems from Poly Fiber are lung
friendly also. I want to research the sanding, blending & polishing
aspects of these products, and of course, the long term result and
wearability of the top coat of paint.
Everyone seems to be shooting the polyurethane paint processes, so I
can't argue with success here. Does anyone have any input on the newer
Poly Fiber paint processes ??
............................................................................
Any of the paints (Imron, Catalyzed Centari, Concept, etc.) that use a
catalyst *can* be deadly. The catalyst is the "big nasty".
I am unaware of any high quality paint that isn't a laquer or enamel
which
doesn't require forced air respiration. If you do find a suitable paint
that fits your criteria, please follow-up to the list with the product
name
and supplier(s), and then with progress reports as you go through the
painting process. Personally, I found the painting process (with the
breather, chem-suit, everlasting solvent fumes, etc) the worst of the
worst
as far as the building process was concerned.
KB
Message 10
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tomscherder@hotmail.com, vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
--> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
Listers:
I am trying to decide the best way to route the wiring from the engie
instruments to the firewall in An RV8. With the location of the baggage
compartment, it seems you may have to go under it or run a conduit thru it?
Also what is the best way to route the pitot and static lines. I am up to
the panel, but not sure how to get the lines behind the panel unless I just
run the under it, bnut they will just be hanging there? ANy suggetsions.
Thanks.
Al Grajek
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Painting question for the group |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I called Cardinal paint and asked to talk to their safety engineer. I told
him I wanted to spray Polyurethane with charcoal mask/respirator only. I
explained my paint booth will have flowing air in and out and I would be
painting about 1.5 gallons over a 2 month period. I could hear him looking
through papers and he then told me a quality respirator is all that would
be needed. Since then I have talked with several paint shops and they do
not use forced air respirators with polyurethane.
At 10:27 AM 5/28/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>Right under my nose was a 10 month continuing article series in the EAA
>Sport Aviation Mag. by Ron Alexander on painting your airplane. I've
>painted cars in high school and did the body work thing so I am no
>stranger...then again I am not a professional either (Didn't stay in a
>Holiday Express either)
>
>Randolph and Poly Fiber offer a urethane paint process that a charcoal
>mask is the only breathing requirement, so I am looking into those
>processes. The new water/cross link systems from Poly Fiber are lung
>friendly also. I want to research the sanding, blending & polishing
>aspects of these products, and of course, the long term result and
>wearability of the top coat of paint.
>
>Everyone seems to be shooting the polyurethane paint processes, so I
>can't argue with success here. Does anyone have any input on the newer
>Poly Fiber paint processes ??
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: wiring question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
Al - I actually have two firewall holes for wiring for my -8A. I used Van's
wiring harness kit, and per guidelines from that have one on the right side
(pilot's perspective) just UNDER the angle piece on the inside of the baggage
compartment. I MAY at some point decide to build up more protection for this
bundle (other than simply running it under that angle). My battery is firewall
mounted, and this hole is primarily for battery/master/alternater/etc. wiring.
I have a similarly located hole in the other side for my EI gauge wiring,
magnetos, oil pressure, fuel pressure, etc. This one is again right at the
side, but is UNDER the baggage compartment floor as you mention.
My static line was run on the right side (again, pilot's perspective) through
the instrument panel via the hole for my headset wiring (which is at the far
right lower corner), then through the bulkheads close to the top rail of the
fuselage (the one that the canopy rail rests on). In this location no
additional support was required and the only part you really see (and you have
to really look for it) is where all of this goes through the lower right corner
of the instrument panel.
I have not routed my pitot line from the wing to the fus (which I won't be
doing until the fus joins the wings for good at the airport) so I cannot advise
on that.
FWIW, though I certainly made some changes, I found the wiring harness kit from
Van's to be a HUGE timesaver as a starting point.
Hope this helps!
Scott in MEM
RV-8A baffles, FAB to go...
Al Grajek wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
>
> Listers:
> I am trying to decide the best way to route the wiring from the engie
> instruments to the firewall in An RV8. With the location of the baggage
> compartment, it seems you may have to go under it or run a conduit thru it?
> Also what is the best way to route the pitot and static lines. I am up to
> the panel, but not sure how to get the lines behind the panel unless I just
> run the under it, bnut they will just be hanging there? ANy suggetsions.
> Thanks.
> Al Grajek
>
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
Al
I converted the vertical section of the fwd baggage compartment to a
battery/electrical hub. Battery, Voltage Regulator, Battery Contactor,
and fuse box are all contained within this area. (Slots were cut to vent
this box on the top and inside). All of the "Bad Cat's" electrical runs
through here. This set-up has worked out well so far.
Rob Miller -8 N262RM "Bad Cat"
--- Al Grajek <algrajek@msn.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
>
> Listers:
> I am trying to decide the best way to route the wiring from the engie
> instruments to the firewall in An RV8. With the location of the baggage
> compartment, it seems you may have to go under it or run a conduit thru
> it?
> Also what is the best way to route the pitot and static lines. I am up
> to
> the panel, but not sure how to get the lines behind the panel unless I
> just
> run the under it, bnut they will just be hanging there? ANy suggetsions.
> Thanks.
> Al Grajek
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Ray,
I agree with you wholeheartedly and went the exact same route...I organized a group
buy from Todd Silver for RV-8 canopies a while back, and for my trouble Todd
sent me two canopies for the price of one--one was 3/16" and the other 1/4"
(actually the 1/4" one had a defect in it, but it was in the aft part of the
canopy where it didn't matter since I only needed the windscreen...so it worked
out well for both of us). Anyway I didn't want to use 1/4" for the whole canopy
because it adds about 5 lbs and most of it doesn't do you any good--in fact
it could do you harm in the event that you need to break out of it. So I
fit the 3/16" canopy first, then set aside the windscreen and cut a new one from
the 1/4" plexi. I haven't actually measured the difference, but was surprised
how much beefier the 1/4" one is. You can set the two windscreens side-by-side
on the workbench and stand on the other side of the garage and clearly see
the difference in thickness by looking at the edges, and most importantly,
when you pick them up the 1/4" is noticeably more rigid and solid-feeling whereas
the 3/16" one is quite flimsy by comparison.
I was concerned about birdstrikes after seeing pictures of what happend to two
RV-6's that had birds come through the canopy. The 1/4" thickness will undoubtedly
offer more protection, not only in resistance to breakage, but even if the
bird still comes through it will dissipate more energy before hitting me in
the face. I also have a fighter helmet with visor, although I don't know if
it will be comfortable enough to wear all the time and particularly in the summer
when it's hot (and the birds are all flying : ). If I can wear it and still
enjoy flying with it, I fully intend to do so. It offers some bird strike
and crash protection benefits. I'm not paranoid--just taking what I consider
reasonable and easy precautions to increase the margin of safety. FWIW, I think
a bird strike in the face of an RV pilot could easily be fatal....perhaps not
the actual impact, but the ensuing accident that would result from the pilot's
inability to fly the aircraft with feathers, blood, and plexi embedded in
his/her face, not to mention the wind blast, shock and disorientation. In one
respect the guys in the side-by-side RV's are a little better off if the bird
only takes out one side of the windscreen, they can shift to the other side of
the cockpit and get some protection from the wind. Whereas the tandem drivers
would not have any protection from the breeze, and if you could still see anything
your only hope would be pulling power all the way back and maybe slipping
it a bit...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D prepping for paint...
Time: 04:38:00 AM PST US
From: Parker43rp@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
--> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
Listers:
I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition that
disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the canopy, I
found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1 inch.
This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of 230 mph.
The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and understandably it
thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in service,
and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to a
windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an alternate
source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required tooling. He
can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and action
they have taken.
Ray
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Bird strikes are a serious concern for all of us. I'm glad the plexi
windshield in my Glasair III is 1/2 inch thick. Of course, the low
altitude cruise speed of a GIII is 240 KTAS.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
czechsix@juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Ray,
I agree with you wholeheartedly and went the exact same route...I
organized a group buy from Todd Silver for RV-8 canopies a while back,
and for my trouble Todd sent me two canopies for the price of one--one
was 3/16" and the other 1/4" (actually the 1/4" one had a defect in it,
but it was in the aft part of the canopy where it didn't matter since I
only needed the windscreen...so it worked out well for both of us).
Anyway I didn't want to use 1/4" for the whole canopy because it adds
about 5 lbs and most of it doesn't do you any good--in fact it could do
you harm in the event that you need to break out of it. So I fit the
3/16" canopy first, then set aside the windscreen and cut a new one from
the 1/4" plexi. I haven't actually measured the difference, but was
surprised how much beefier the 1/4" one is. You can set the two
windscreens side-by-side on the workbench and stand on the other side of
the garage and clearly see the difference in thickness by looking at the
edg!
es, and most importantly, when you pick them up the 1/4" is noticeably
more rigid and solid-feeling whereas the 3/16" one is quite flimsy by
comparison.
I was concerned about birdstrikes after seeing pictures of what happend
to two RV-6's that had birds come through the canopy. The 1/4"
thickness will undoubtedly offer more protection, not only in resistance
to breakage, but even if the bird still comes through it will dissipate
more energy before hitting me in the face. I also have a fighter helmet
with visor, although I don't know if it will be comfortable enough to
wear all the time and particularly in the summer when it's hot (and the
birds are all flying : ). If I can wear it and still enjoy flying with
it, I fully intend to do so. It offers some bird strike and crash
protection benefits. I'm not paranoid--just taking what I consider
reasonable and easy precautions to increase the margin of safety. FWIW,
I think a bird strike in the face of an RV pilot could easily be
fatal....perhaps not the actual impact, but the ensuing accident that
would result from the pilot's inability to fly the aircraft with
feathers, blo!
od, and plexi embedded in his/her face, not to mention the wind blast,
shock and disorientation. In one respect the guys in the side-by-side
RV's are a little better off if the bird only takes out one side of the
windscreen, they can shift to the other side of the cockpit and get some
protection from the wind. Whereas the tandem drivers would not have any
protection from the breeze, and if you could still see anything your
only hope would be pulling power all the way back and maybe slipping it
a bit...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D prepping for paint...
Time: 04:38:00 AM PST US
From: Parker43rp@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
--> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
Listers:
I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition
that
disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the
canopy, I
found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1
inch.
This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of
230 mph.
The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and
understandably it
thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in
service,
and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to
a
windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an
alternate
source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required
tooling. He
can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and
action
they have taken.
Ray
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 16
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Are those plastic birds really that fast??
DOC
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> Bird strikes are a serious concern for all of us. I'm glad the plexi
> windshield in my Glasair III is 1/2 inch thick. Of course, the low
> altitude cruise speed of a GIII is 240 KTAS.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> czechsix@juno.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I agree with you wholeheartedly and went the exact same route...I
> organized a group buy from Todd Silver for RV-8 canopies a while back,
> and for my trouble Todd sent me two canopies for the price of one--one
> was 3/16" and the other 1/4" (actually the 1/4" one had a defect in it,
> but it was in the aft part of the canopy where it didn't matter since I
> only needed the windscreen...so it worked out well for both of us).
> Anyway I didn't want to use 1/4" for the whole canopy because it adds
> about 5 lbs and most of it doesn't do you any good--in fact it could do
> you harm in the event that you need to break out of it. So I fit the
> 3/16" canopy first, then set aside the windscreen and cut a new one from
> the 1/4" plexi. I haven't actually measured the difference, but was
> surprised how much beefier the 1/4" one is. You can set the two
> windscreens side-by-side on the workbench and stand on the other side of
> the garage and clearly see the difference in thickness by looking at the
> edg!
> es, and most importantly, when you pick them up the 1/4" is noticeably
> more rigid and solid-feeling whereas the 3/16" one is quite flimsy by
> comparison.
>
> I was concerned about birdstrikes after seeing pictures of what happend
> to two RV-6's that had birds come through the canopy. The 1/4"
> thickness will undoubtedly offer more protection, not only in resistance
> to breakage, but even if the bird still comes through it will dissipate
> more energy before hitting me in the face. I also have a fighter helmet
> with visor, although I don't know if it will be comfortable enough to
> wear all the time and particularly in the summer when it's hot (and the
> birds are all flying : ). If I can wear it and still enjoy flying with
> it, I fully intend to do so. It offers some bird strike and crash
> protection benefits. I'm not paranoid--just taking what I consider
> reasonable and easy precautions to increase the margin of safety. FWIW,
> I think a bird strike in the face of an RV pilot could easily be
> fatal....perhaps not the actual impact, but the ensuing accident that
> would result from the pilot's inability to fly the aircraft with
> feathers, blo!
> od, and plexi embedded in his/her face, not to mention the wind blast,
> shock and disorientation. In one respect the guys in the side-by-side
> RV's are a little better off if the bird only takes out one side of the
> windscreen, they can shift to the other side of the cockpit and get some
> protection from the wind. Whereas the tandem drivers would not have any
> protection from the breeze, and if you could still see anything your
> only hope would be pulling power all the way back and maybe slipping it
> a bit...
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D prepping for paint...
>
> Time: 04:38:00 AM PST US
> From: Parker43rp@aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
>
> Listers:
>
> I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition
> that
> disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the
> canopy, I
>
> found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1
> inch.
> This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne of
> 230 mph.
>
> The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and
> understandably it
> thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in
> service,
> and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting to
> a
> windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been an
> alternate
>
> source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required
> tooling. He
>
> can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
>
> I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and
> action
> they have taken.
>
> Ray
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Hey Doc,
DNA doesn't work. You actually have to spell out "do not archive" to
suppress the storage.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
> --> <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> Are those plastic birds really that fast??
>
> DOC
> DNA
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
A slow Glasair III will only do 220 KTAS. The race guys are doing
295-300 MPH (260~265 KTS) at Reno. BTW, Vne is listed as 291 KTS.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Kevin P.
Leathers
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
<DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Are those plastic birds really that fast??
DOC
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> Bird strikes are a serious concern for all of us. I'm glad the plexi
> windshield in my Glasair III is 1/2 inch thick. Of course, the low
> altitude cruise speed of a GIII is 240 KTAS.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> czechsix@juno.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I agree with you wholeheartedly and went the exact same route...I
> organized a group buy from Todd Silver for RV-8 canopies a while back,
> and for my trouble Todd sent me two canopies for the price of one--one
> was 3/16" and the other 1/4" (actually the 1/4" one had a defect in
it,
> but it was in the aft part of the canopy where it didn't matter since
I
> only needed the windscreen...so it worked out well for both of us).
> Anyway I didn't want to use 1/4" for the whole canopy because it adds
> about 5 lbs and most of it doesn't do you any good--in fact it could
do
> you harm in the event that you need to break out of it. So I fit the
> 3/16" canopy first, then set aside the windscreen and cut a new one
from
> the 1/4" plexi. I haven't actually measured the difference, but was
> surprised how much beefier the 1/4" one is. You can set the two
> windscreens side-by-side on the workbench and stand on the other side
of
> the garage and clearly see the difference in thickness by looking at
the
> edg!
> es, and most importantly, when you pick them up the 1/4" is noticeably
> more rigid and solid-feeling whereas the 3/16" one is quite flimsy by
> comparison.
>
> I was concerned about birdstrikes after seeing pictures of what
happend
> to two RV-6's that had birds come through the canopy. The 1/4"
> thickness will undoubtedly offer more protection, not only in
resistance
> to breakage, but even if the bird still comes through it will
dissipate
> more energy before hitting me in the face. I also have a fighter
helmet
> with visor, although I don't know if it will be comfortable enough to
> wear all the time and particularly in the summer when it's hot (and
the
> birds are all flying : ). If I can wear it and still enjoy flying
with
> it, I fully intend to do so. It offers some bird strike and crash
> protection benefits. I'm not paranoid--just taking what I consider
> reasonable and easy precautions to increase the margin of safety.
FWIW,
> I think a bird strike in the face of an RV pilot could easily be
> fatal....perhaps not the actual impact, but the ensuing accident that
> would result from the pilot's inability to fly the aircraft with
> feathers, blo!
> od, and plexi embedded in his/her face, not to mention the wind blast,
> shock and disorientation. In one respect the guys in the side-by-side
> RV's are a little better off if the bird only takes out one side of
the
> windscreen, they can shift to the other side of the cockpit and get
some
> protection from the wind. Whereas the tandem drivers would not have
any
> protection from the breeze, and if you could still see anything your
> only hope would be pulling power all the way back and maybe slipping
it
> a bit...
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D prepping for paint...
>
> Time: 04:38:00 AM PST US
> From: Parker43rp@aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Parker43rp@aol.com
>
> Listers:
>
> I have been working on the canopy for my RV-8A, and find a condition
> that
> disturbs me. When I cut the wind screen section from the body of the
> canopy, I
>
> found that the thickness of part of the windscreen was less than 0.1
> inch.
> This seems to me a bit on the flimsy side for a plane that has a Vne
of
> 230 mph.
>
> The stock canopy is blown from 3/16 in. thick material, and
> understandably it
> thins as it forms into shape. There are a lot of these canopies in
> service,
> and as far as I know none have failed. However, I am now converting
to
> a
> windscreen made from 1/4 in. material by Todd Silver. Todd has been
an
> alternate
>
> source for canopies for many RV builders and has all the required
> tooling. He
>
> can be reached at<BSILVER05@aol.com> if you wish to inquire.
>
> I would like to know if there are others that share my concern and
> action
> they have taken.
>
> Ray
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Painting |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
> > I will be building up my XP 360 soon and in reading the Lyc overhaul
manual,
> > there is a section on painting the engine. Pretty complicated from
reading
> > it and lots of thinners and types of paints I had not considered.It
> > specifies the use of "Toluene" thinner and "Phtalate Resin type enamel".
> > Never heard of these. It specifies this for both the case and
cylinders.
> > Can anyone who has painted their engine provide any advice on what is
> > required and how did you go about painting it. I have the Sky Ranch
engine
> > book and am about to read it. The enging has also been zygloed or it
looks
> > like it. Thanks
> > Ed O'Connor/RV-8/Panama City Fl
>
>
Several years ago I had to replace the cam in my 0-320 on my Citabria. This
was a good time to paint the crankcase and make it all look new. I followed
Sacramento Sky' Ranchs procedure: stripped the case and cleaned it all up.
I did not use any primer at all (on their recommendation). Sprayed it with
Lycoming engine paint (rattle can) and then baked it in the oven for two
hours at 200 degrees. The current owner reports the paint is still in
perfect condition.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
Message 20
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| Subject: | Elevator/rudder cracks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
Fellow Listers:
An issue has come up around here regarding elevator and rudder cracking on
"older" RVs with .016 skins on 180 hp aircraft with C/S props. Two of our
local builders are discovering cracks at the forward edge of the rudder and
elevator stiffeners after as little as 180 hours total time. I believe Van
switches to .020 skins in the recent kits.
My "almost-ready-to-fly" RV-4 has the thin skins (it is 180 hp/CS). I am
expecting cracks to appear down the road. In fact I may even just go ahead
and plan on building a new elevator and rudder with .020 skins prior to
having the airplane painted next winter.
Has anyone else had this problem in aircraft with over 300 hours and .016
skins??
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
BTW, the RV-4 I recently sold was built in 1993 with .020 skins (180
hp/CS). After 710 hours... no cracks whatsoever.
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Has anyone used any ferrite shielding beads on their prewiring during the
construction phase?
If so can you tell us more about it and any results?
Phil
Message 22
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| Subject: | "Out of the mouths of babes" |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Listers...
You might enjoy this...
An essay written by a 5th grader
WHY I WANT TO BE A PILOT
WHEN I GRROW UP I WANT TO BE A PILOT BECAUSE IT IS A FUN JOB AND EASY TO DO.
THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SO MANY PIL;OTS FLYING AROUND THESE DAYS. PILOTS DON'T
NEED MUCH SCHOOL, THEY JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO READ NUMBERS SO THEY CAN READ THEIR
INSTRUMENTS. I GUESS THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO READ ROAD MAPS TOO, SO THEY CAN
FIND THEIR WAY IF THEY GET LOST. PILOTS SHOULD BE BRAVE SO THEY WON'T BE AFRAID
IF IT'S FOGGY AND THEY CAN'T SEE OR IF A WING OR MOTOR FALLS OFF. THEY SHOULD
STAY CALM SO THEY WILL KNOW WHAT TO DO. PILOTS SHOULD HAVE GOOD EYES TO SEE
THROUGH CLOUDS, AND THEY CAN'T BE AFRAID OF THUNDER OR LIGHTENING BECAUSE THEY
ARE SO MUCH CLOSER TO THEM THAN WE ARE. THE SALARY PILOTS MAKE IS ANOTHER
THING I LIKE. THEY MAKE MORE MONEY THAN THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH. THIS IS BECAUSE
MOST PEOPLE THINK FLYING IS DANGEROUS, EXCEPT PILOTS DON'T BECAUSE THEY KNOW
HOW EASY IT IS. I HOPE I DON'T GET AIR SICK BECAUSE I GET CAR SICK, AND THEN
I WOULD HAVE TO GO TO WORK
Jerry Cochran
Do not archive
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Garmin 196 |
"vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>"
<005101c32550$e7be84e0$6c01a8c0@Silky>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Here's the response I got from Garmin about a color 196:
Thank you for contacting Garmin:
The 176 C screen is a transflextive screen, that is a $5 college word that
means the unit needs sunlight to be seen. Which is great for Marine
applications but is less than desirable for aviation. Therefore, we don't
have one yet. I am sure that someday it will come out but right now there
are no current (near future) plans for this unit to be released in color.
Thank you and Best Regards
Burt Peterson
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Hodde
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Garmin 196
What do you think are the chances they will be introducing a NEW Garmin 296
that's the 196 in color? I was kinda waiting til Oshkosh to see if they
introduce one there. It seems like the next logical step. Doug
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <Connywerner@wans.net>
Dear Greg,
Q: What did you expect from a DOC?
A: DNA -Talk of course!
Do nOt arChive
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Young
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8 canopy
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Hey Doc,
DNA doesn't work. You actually have to spell out "do not archive" to
suppress the storage.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
> --> <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> Are those plastic birds really that fast??
>
> DOC
> DNA
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: "Out of the mouths of babes" |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Thanks Jerry, very good. Sounds like something "Johnny Cochran" could
believe or at least expound. Do Not Archive. 8*) KABONG (GBA)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: "Out of the mouths of babes"
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Listers...
>
> You might enjoy this...
>
> An essay written by a 5th grader
>
> WHY I WANT TO BE A PILOT
> Jerry Cochran
> Do not archive
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Wow! I have heard of extreme measures to preserve the ancient Lycosaurus over
the past 45 years but this one takes the prize. I wonder why Av engines seem
to be sooooo susceptible to rust and other nasties from sitting, while other
engines don't seem to. I have a 1947 Ford tractor that has sat for 6 months
yearly since then and shows no signs of this kind of grief. Burns not a drop of
oil and no measures of any kind are taken for preservation, nor does it's
original manual suggest any.
The main diff I can think of is it's liquid cooled, but why would that
matter? I honestly wish someone would explain this scientifically, not anecdotally.
Is this an aviation urban myth, or is it real, and if so, why?
BTW, I was by Van's yesterday, took a peek out back and it looked like they
were working furiously on the -10. Bet it won't be long...
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
RV6a/Superior IO-36O soon
In a message dated 5/27/03 11:00:40 PM, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
<< From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming 320-E2A
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
I have read the article posted by Ted McHenry and it is essentially what
Atlantic Aviation* told me to do for long term storage. (*Where I got my
overhauled O-320). They told me to fill it up to the brim with auto engine
oil (I used Castrol GTX 10W30). Following their directions, I filled it
through the crankcase breather pipe. It took 26 1/2 liters of oil to fill
it! As there is always some of the valves that are open, oil will get into
the manifolds and upper parts of the cylinders, so all ports should be well
sealed. It will take some time for the oil to get into the upper part of the
cylinders, past the piston rings, which have both valves closed so after 6
months I was able to add more oil. After a year, I added some more and that
was it for the rest of the 4 years I had it stored. It is working great. I
have 40 hours on it now with an oil change at 20 hours at which time and we
just filled it with 5 quarts of which 1 quart was burned in the next 20
hours.
>>
Message 27
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Al,
I ran two conduits along the upper longerons (one on each side) through
the baggage compartment. As far as from the wings, I ran under the floor,
up the and under the arm rests and drilled a hole in the lower corner of the
instrument panel. I did this on both sides also. I am happy with the
results.
Jim
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
80+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>; <tomscherder@hotmail.com>;
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" <algrajek@msn.com>
>
> Listers:
> I am trying to decide the best way to route the wiring from the engie
> instruments to the firewall in An RV8. With the location of the baggage
> compartment, it seems you may have to go under it or run a conduit thru
it?
> Also what is the best way to route the pitot and static lines. I am up to
> the panel, but not sure how to get the lines behind the panel unless I
just
> run the under it, bnut they will just be hanging there? ANy suggetsions.
> Thanks.
> Al Grajek
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Pickling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Different strokes for different folks. I for one, have my engine filled
to the brim with oil also, if only to protect the camshaft from rusting.
Things rust quite easily in my garage. must have something to do with
running kerosine heaters in the winter on a irregular interval, always
good for lots of moistere condensation on my machining equipment.
either way 20 bucks of the cheap oil vs. the risk of rusted engine
interior seems a good investment somehow.
Glad your '47 ford tractor is showing no signs of grief. but when it
does, ya can just pull over and get a cheap replacement part..........
It is not so much a difference between water cooled vs. air cooled. it's
the material used and the posiion of the material in the crankcase which
makes the camshaft an easy target for moistere condensation.
gert
Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Wow! I have heard of extreme measures to preserve the ancient Lycosaurus over
> the past 45 years but this one takes the prize. I wonder why Av engines seem
> to be sooooo susceptible to rust and other nasties from sitting, while other
> engines don't seem to. I have a 1947 Ford tractor that has sat for 6 months
> yearly since then and shows no signs of this kind of grief. Burns not a drop
of
> oil and no measures of any kind are taken for preservation, nor does it's
> original manual suggest any.
>
> The main diff I can think of is it's liquid cooled, but why would that
> matter? I honestly wish someone would explain this scientifically, not anecdotally.
> Is this an aviation urban myth, or is it real, and if so, why?
>
> BTW, I was by Van's yesterday, took a peek out back and it looked like they
> were working furiously on the -10. Bet it won't be long...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
> RV6a/Superior IO-36O soon
>
>
> In a message dated 5/27/03 11:00:40 PM, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> << From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming 320-E2A
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
> I have read the article posted by Ted McHenry and it is essentially what
> Atlantic Aviation* told me to do for long term storage. (*Where I got my
> overhauled O-320). They told me to fill it up to the brim with auto engine
> oil (I used Castrol GTX 10W30). Following their directions, I filled it
> through the crankcase breather pipe. It took 26 1/2 liters of oil to fill
> it! As there is always some of the valves that are open, oil will get into
> the manifolds and upper parts of the cylinders, so all ports should be well
> sealed. It will take some time for the oil to get into the upper part of the
> cylinders, past the piston rings, which have both valves closed so after 6
> months I was able to add more oil. After a year, I added some more and that
> was it for the rest of the 4 years I had it stored. It is working great. I
> have 40 hours on it now with an oil change at 20 hours at which time and we
> just filled it with 5 quarts of which 1 quart was burned in the next 20
> hours.
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 29
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| Subject: | Navaid Auto Pilot for sale. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Garry LeGare <versadek@earthlink.net>
Hi guys,
I'm selling my Navaid Auto Pilot complete with the Smart Coupler 2.
Cost over $1450.. First $1000. takes all, including brackets etc. Will
supply original install instructions and close up pics of installation
in Casper (no cutting of the seat pan brackets or other structure).
125 hours TTSN used only 5 or 6 hours, and that's why I'm selling it.
Contact me of list.
Do not archive.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: "Out of the mouths of babes" |
--> RV-List message posted by: david just david <davlaw1@juno.com>
hello there, please remove my address from the list now. thanks to all
who answered my questions. good luck to all, and happy flying!!!!!
Message 31
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| Subject: | New RV-10 Photo's on Van's web site! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Bob Hassel
Email: bob@hassel-usa.com
URL: http://www.hassel-usa.com
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
Message 32
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"Rocket List" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
Everybody,
I just learned one of the problems with having the slowest Harmon Rocket.
I was just finishing a aileron roll when I saw a C-130 fly about 1000 feet
below me. My pax and I both saw TWO shadows on the ground but only one
plane. This caused some delay on my part as I didn't want to find the
second plane the HARD way (never found the second C-130, maybe the second
shadow was mine). So, after a very careful scan of the sky, I dropped the
nose of the Rocket and ran down the C-130. I was only able to get to about
1000 feet from the C-130 when he started to pull away.
If I just had one of those "big" engines, I might have been able to pull up
on their wing and waved to the pilots in the cockpit. HOW COOL WOULD THAT
HAVE BEEN.
I will just have to settle for close but no cigar. IT WAS FUN!!!!
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket II, N561FS, flying
Message 33
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| Subject: | Elevator/rudder cracks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> An issue has come up around here regarding elevator and
> rudder cracking on "older" RVs with .016 skins on 180 hp
> aircraft with C/S props. Two of our local builders are
> discovering cracks at the forward edge of the rudder and
> elevator stiffeners after as little as 180 hours total time.
> I believe Van switches to .020 skins in the recent kits.
>
> My "almost-ready-to-fly" RV-4 has the thin skins (it is 180
> hp/CS). I am expecting cracks to appear down the road. In
> fact I may even just go ahead and plan on building a new
> elevator and rudder with .020 skins prior to having the
> airplane painted next winter.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem in aircraft with over 300
> hours and .016 skins??
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
Doug has a typo in the last sentence, I suspect. What we want to know
is if anyone who has the thicker, .020", skins has seen any cracking.
We are looking for high time planes, maybe the -8's or preferably any
6's or 4's with the thicker skins. I have one of the planes Doug's
talking about, as my rudder has cracks in the skin after only 300 hours,
bummer. This is not from aerobatics, since the rudder isn't used much
during flight anyway. The cracks are on both sides, so it is likely the
prop pulses are causing a resonance in the rudder. The other plane is a
-4, and the cracks in the skins go right into the area of the spar. The
owner of that plane has grounded his plane for this repair at 180 hours
TT.
I'm skeptical that simply going from .016" to .020" skins will eliminate
the problem. It might delay it, but I doubt it will go away. If it
eliminates it, we won't know for quite some time, and it will be because
the resonant frequency was changed.
I did not like the "floating" stiffener design when I built the rudder
back in '94, but built it per plans anyway. It is simply a poor design
feature. The stiffeners can be managed at their aft ends through Van's
recommended technique of putting RTV or something in there. However, the
floating fronts are really a bad idea. When I rebuild mine, I will find
a way of fastening the stiffeners to the spar, or build ribs.
I highly recommend anyone who hasn't built theirs yet to find a way to
attach the stiffeners on the elevators and rudder to the spar.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator/rudder cracks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Hey Doug,
When you were building your .016 rudder and elevators, did you put a dab of
RTV at the trailing edges of the stiffeners? When I did my 6 Van was
advising to do this to avoid cracks from the skins vibrating. I'm not
expecting any cracks.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> An issue has come up around here regarding elevator and rudder cracking on
> "older" RVs with .016 skins on 180 hp aircraft with C/S props. Two of our
> local builders are discovering cracks at the forward edge of the rudder
and
> elevator stiffeners after as little as 180 hours total time. I believe
Van
> switches to .020 skins in the recent kits.
>
> My "almost-ready-to-fly" RV-4 has the thin skins (it is 180 hp/CS). I am
> expecting cracks to appear down the road. In fact I may even just go
ahead
> and plan on building a new elevator and rudder with .020 skins prior to
> having the airplane painted next winter.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem in aircraft with over 300 hours and .016
> skins??
Message 35
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 05/27/03 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
John, below
Time: 07:19:05 AM PST US
From: "John Brick" <jbrick@wolfenet.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: TEL
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Brick" <jbrick@wolfenet.com>
More beating please...
I've been waiting for answers to some basic questions but haven't seen them
yet.
1. Don't cars have about the same compression ratios or even higher than the
aircraft engines we use?
Depends on the engines. Vertical helo engines commonly use 10:1, others
around 8:1, genreally the same for most automotive.
2. Assuming yes to the first question, what is it about aircraft engines
that require leaded fuel to prevent detonation, when cars do not?
Hugh cylinder bores and pressures to develop power without an increase of
RPM.
3. Transmission gearing? Seems like a constant speed prop is sort of
similar, no?
Yes, but not entirely used in the same manner. It certainly can be used to
reduce detonation if the pilot could tell it was happening.
4. Variable ignition timing? FADEC should handle that, no?
Yes, but very few recips have FADEC, and the only certified FADEC out there
costs more than the engine it goes on.
5. Bore and valve size. Is that a player?
Is a major player, see above
6. Anti-knock sensors are not the only reason, right?
I don't understand the reference. The only reason for what?
7. Why are aircraft engines too noisy for anti-knock sensors? It's not just
the lack of a muffler and prop noise, is it?
They aren't. I meant they were too noisy for pilots to hear it. But I have
long believed they should be installed on every airmotive engine out there.
Of course it doesn't mean anything unless you have a method to get it out of
detonation, such as varible timing. A CS prop would be a way, or reducing
load with the elevator or throttle. I'm not sure why someone hasn't made a
anti-knock sensing system. It shouldn't be that hard, although the R&D to
get it tuned to each type of engine may be lengthy. I do know that GAMI has
been working with them on Continentals for some time now, not sure if they
are a part of their ignition system or not.
The display would be an idiot light on the panel that flickers on when the
sensor hears detonation.
W
jb
do not archive yet
Message 36
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 05/27/03 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>4. Variable ignition timing? FADEC should handle that, no?
>>>I think the electronic ignitions available for Lycomings do to, don't
they? Easy to do.
I currently have an Aerosance FADEC system (the only certified version I
know about) that I am installing on a test bed for our school, it doesn't
use a knock sensor. It has timing gear ref, egt, cht, map, fp and cat
sensors.
I'm not sure about the others. I don't think the LASAR uses one, but I could
be wrong. I thought they had a map sensor instead.
The down side of a knock sensor is one has to start pre-detonating to tell
they are about to detonate. In an aircooled engine this could be too late
according to some experts. Using MAP and RPM and some conservative math one
can keep the engine well away from detonation, and everybody is happy with
the technology since we aren't using some new fangled sensor. (I know Piezo
resistive sensors have been around for a very long time, its a sales thing,
not a reality thing)
do not archive
Message 37
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| Subject: | Elevator/rudder cracks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Norman, the cracks on my 6A's rudder are on the FORWARD edge of the
stiffeners. RTV would have to be real thick to span there.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> Hey Doug,
>
> When you were building your .016 rudder and elevators, did
> you put a dab of RTV at the trailing edges of the stiffeners?
> When I did my 6 Van was advising to do this to avoid cracks
> from the skins vibrating. I'm not expecting any cracks.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator/rudder cracks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> Hey Doug,
>
> When you were building your .016 rudder and elevators, did you put a dab
of
> RTV at the trailing edges of the stiffeners? When I did my 6 Van was
> advising to do this to avoid cracks from the skins vibrating. I'm not
> expecting any cracks.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
Yes I did put RTV at the rear of the stiffeners, but I did not do anything
at the front. That seems to be the problem as Alex mentioned in his note.
Perhaps a glob of RTV in the front might also prevent this possibility of
cracks. As I mentioned, 4EM which is just sold had no problem at all in 10
years. But I'm sure the .020 skins helped. My new RV-4 (22DW) will be
flown unpainted and I just hate to spring for a super paint job to then have
the tail surfaces begin to crack.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator/rudder cracks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
All,
The pink panther has a IO-320 160 hp and I run the snot out of it, acro and
every thing. I have several cracks on both sides, front and back rivit, I
have fixed all of them with "Click" patches which are a little kit for
sealing leaking rivits on Cherokee fuel tanks. I stop drill them, and apply
the patch and never had a problem again. Hammerheads and full rudder slips
aggravate the problem......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
> Hey Doug,
>
> When you were building your .016 rudder and elevators, did you put a dab
of
> RTV at the trailing edges of the stiffeners? When I did my 6 Van was
> advising to do this to avoid cracks from the skins vibrating. I'm not
> expecting any cracks.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
> >
> > Fellow Listers:
> >
> > An issue has come up around here regarding elevator and rudder cracking
on
> > "older" RVs with .016 skins on 180 hp aircraft with C/S props. Two of
our
> > local builders are discovering cracks at the forward edge of the rudder
> and
> > elevator stiffeners after as little as 180 hours total time. I believe
> Van
> > switches to .020 skins in the recent kits.
> >
> > My "almost-ready-to-fly" RV-4 has the thin skins (it is 180 hp/CS). I
am
> > expecting cracks to appear down the road. In fact I may even just go
> ahead
> > and plan on building a new elevator and rudder with .020 skins prior to
> > having the airplane painted next winter.
> >
> > Has anyone else had this problem in aircraft with over 300 hours and
.016
> > skins??
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Pickling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Jerry,
I firmly believe in properly preserving ANY engine for long term
storage. That being said, my O-360 sat totally un-preserved for 8 years
(before I bought it) on a damp hangar floor about 2 miles from the
Pacific Ocean in Southern California and when I opened it up there was
absolutely no sign of any kind of corrosion. So, while it's a VERY good
idea to correctly prepare it for storage, it's not necessarily going to
destroy the engine if you don't.
Dave RV6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor.
Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>Wow! I have heard of extreme measures to preserve the ancient Lycosaurus over
>the past 45 years but this one takes the prize. I wonder why Av engines seem
>to be sooooo susceptible to rust and other nasties from sitting, while other
>engines don't seem to. I have a 1947 Ford tractor that has sat for 6 months
>yearly since then and shows no signs of this kind of grief. Burns not a drop of
>oil and no measures of any kind are taken for preservation, nor does it's
>original manual suggest any.
>
>The main diff I can think of is it's liquid cooled, but why would that
>matter? I honestly wish someone would explain this scientifically, not anecdotally.
>Is this an aviation urban myth, or is it real, and if so, why?
>
>BTW, I was by Van's yesterday, took a peek out back and it looked like they
>were working furiously on the -10. Bet it won't be long...
>
>Jerry Cochran
>Wilsonville, OR
>RV6a/Superior IO-36O soon
>
>
>In a message dated 5/27/03 11:00:40 PM, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
><< From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming 320-E2A
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
>I have read the article posted by Ted McHenry and it is essentially what
>Atlantic Aviation* told me to do for long term storage. (*Where I got my
>overhauled O-320). They told me to fill it up to the brim with auto engine
>oil (I used Castrol GTX 10W30). Following their directions, I filled it
>through the crankcase breather pipe. It took 26 1/2 liters of oil to fill
>it! As there is always some of the valves that are open, oil will get into
>the manifolds and upper parts of the cylinders, so all ports should be well
>sealed. It will take some time for the oil to get into the upper part of the
>cylinders, past the piston rings, which have both valves closed so after 6
>months I was able to add more oil. After a year, I added some more and that
>was it for the rest of the 4 years I had it stored. It is working great. I
>have 40 hours on it now with an oil change at 20 hours at which time and we
>just filled it with 5 quarts of which 1 quart was burned in the next 20
>hours.
> >>
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Prop governor drive |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Hi Folks
I need a bit of enlightenment.
I am in need of a prop governor adapter. A quick look in the spec book
for the IO-360-A1B shows two types.
1.
"woodward" type governor adapter Lyc.# 75153
2. "AN" type governor adapter Lyc.# 75545
which one would be safer to get if one does not have the governor yet.
What is the difference? (number of splines??)
Somebody told me Van's engines come with the "woodward" type....
Thanks in advance
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Pickling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Gert wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
>
>Different strokes for different folks. I for one, have my engine filled
>to the brim with oil also, if only to protect the camshaft from rusting.
>
>Things rust quite easily in my garage. must have something to do with
>running kerosine heaters in the winter on a irregular interval, always
>good for lots of moistere condensation on my machining equipment.
>
>either way 20 bucks of the cheap oil vs. the risk of rusted engine
>interior seems a good investment somehow.
>
>Glad your '47 ford tractor is showing no signs of grief. but when it
>does, ya can just pull over and get a cheap replacement part..........
>
>It is not so much a difference between water cooled vs. air cooled. it's
>the material used and the posiion of the material in the crankcase which
>makes the camshaft an easy target for moistere condensation.
>
>gert
>
So, gert, when's the last time you bought parts for farm equipment?
'Cheap' ain't in the farm supplier's vocabulary. ;-) Also, as this city
boy has learned, farm equipment has more ways to kill you than aircraft,
with less warning.
Charlie
(mid 50's era Massey Ferguson money pit , RV-7 tail in progress)
do not archive
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Prop governor drive |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Stephenson" <mike@proclaimweb.com>
Can not help with your enlightenment but check out Ebay auction #
2417135901. A friend is selling the woodward type. I have seen it. It is
brand new.
Mike Stephenson
> I need a bit of enlightenment.
>
> I am in need of a prop governor adapter. A quick look in the spec book
> for the IO-360-A1B shows two types.
>
> 1.
> "woodward" type governor adapter Lyc.# 75153
> 2. "AN" type governor adapter Lyc.# 75545
>
> which one would be safer to get if one does not have the governor yet.
> What is the difference? (number of splines??)
>
> Somebody told me Van's engines come with the "woodward" type....
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Gert
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
Message 44
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--> RV-List message posted by: ACEACORN@aol.com
unsubscibe to rv-list digest aceacorn@aol.com
Message 45
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| Subject: | RV4 built by Wiley Harrington?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Anyone know anything about this plane? Good or bad?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
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