---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/29/03: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:51 AM - IO 360 A1A & 3 Blade Hartzell for Sale (Frank Dombroski) 2. 03:04 AM - Re: IO 360 A1A & 3 Blade Hartzell for Sale (Kevin Horton) 3. 04:13 AM - Re: Elevator and Rudder Cracks (Jim Nolan) 4. 04:53 AM - Re: Engine Painting (willfly) 5. 05:37 AM - RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again (James Bond) 6. 06:27 AM - Re: Painting question for the group (P M Condon) 7. 06:31 AM - Re: Plane FUN (Jeff Dowling) 8. 06:32 AM - Re: RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again (Ed Perry) 9. 07:42 AM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Doug Gray) 10. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Painting question for the group (Steven Eberhart) 11. 08:04 AM - Re: Plane FUN (rv6tc) 12. 08:25 AM - Bakersfield EAA 71 BBQ & Fly-in (MeangreenRV4@aol.com) 13. 08:32 AM - Re: RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again (SportAV8R@aol.com) 14. 10:21 AM - RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (czechsix@juno.com) 15. 10:26 AM - Re: RV-10 First Flight (Fabian Lefler) 16. 11:27 AM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 17. 01:00 PM - Vibrations (John Furey) 18. 01:06 PM - Toronto-area Builders (terence.gannon@telus.net) 19. 01:35 PM - Re: RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Scott Vanartsdalen) 20. 03:30 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Bob Japundza) 21. 03:32 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Richard Pettigrew) 22. 03:40 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Richard Pettigrew) 23. 04:09 PM - Cracked canopy (Rquinn1@aol.com) 24. 04:17 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Alex Peterson) 25. 04:54 PM - (Dr. Leathers) 26. 04:58 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Rob Prior) 27. 05:11 PM - Re: Vibrations (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 28. 05:34 PM - Re: RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Keith Vasey) 29. 05:41 PM - Re: Elevator/rudder cracks (Tedd McHenry) 30. 06:00 PM - Re: Cracked canopy (Bob) 31. 06:03 PM - Re: (Dave Bristol) 32. 06:03 PM - Re: (Bob) 33. 06:13 PM - Re: (Jerry Springer) 34. 06:23 PM - Re: (Cy Galley) 35. 06:32 PM - Re:Cracked Canopy (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 36. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Painting question for the group (James Freeman) 37. 08:05 PM - windscreen fairing cracks/vibrations (Brian Denk) 38. 09:16 PM - Re: Cracked canopy (kempthornes) 39. 09:30 PM - Re: windscreen fairing cracks/vibrations (Dave Bristol) 40. 09:32 PM - Re: Cracked canopy (Art Glaser) 41. 11:23 PM - Re: Vibrations (James E. Clark) 42. 11:28 PM - Re: (James E. Clark) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:18 AM PST US From: Frank Dombroski Subject: RV-List: IO 360 A1A & 3 Blade Hartzell for Sale --> RV-List message posted by: Frank Dombroski Engine : IO-360-A1A Engine Serial Number : RL-3650-51A Engine Total Time : 1193 hours 27 min T.S.O. : 210 hours 46 Min - Factory Reman All Accessories Included * Note : This engine has zero-time since it was disassembled, cleaned, and inspected by PROAERO ENGINES, Inc. in Canada on June 6, 2002 because of a minor Prop strike. Propeller : HC-C3YR-1RF/F7282 Hub Serial Number : DY5453B Prop Manufactured Date : August, 2002 Prop Total Time : -0- ( New) $30K for the pair. Frank 480-510-9454 f_dombroski@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:56 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: IO 360 A1A & 3 Blade Hartzell for Sale --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: Frank Dombroski > >Engine : IO-360-A1A >Engine Serial Number : RL-3650-51A >Engine Total Time : 1193 hours 27 min >T.S.O. : 210 hours 46 Min - Factory Reman >All Accessories Included >* Note : This engine has zero-time since it was disassembled, >cleaned, and inspected by PROAERO ENGINES, Inc. in Canada on June 6, >2002 because of a minor Prop strike. Just for info, Pro Aero Engines is part of the same group of companies as Aero Sport Power (Bart Lalonde). Pro Aero Engines does the work for type certificated aircraft, and Aero Sport Power does the work for homebuilts. They use the same facility, equipment, etc. I guess I am trying to say that this engine was inspected by a quality shop, not some fly-by-night place. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:55 AM PST US From: "Jim Nolan" Subject: RV-List: Re: Elevator and Rudder Cracks --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" Guys, After 11 years of flying an RV, I've seen quite a few RV's at different flyins. The one's with cracks at the trailing edge comes from not running the stiffener as close to the edge as possible. My airplane is 160 hp and has no cracks. I've seen cracks in 150hp RV's also. The bigger engine might make it happen sooner. The problem I have is that since 600 hrs. the rivets close to the fuselage on the right top and bottom left main spars of the horizontal stabilizer are smoked. They smoke progressively each year. I've seen the same thing on a lot of RV's, Sixes and Fours. Van says it's because the rivets were machine countersunk. When I built the eight tail, I dimpled the spar and skin as Van NOW recommends. The only explanation for this problem would be the flow of air hitting the tail from the prop. When I built my horizontal stabilizer, Van recommended machine countersinking. Live and Learn. Jim Nolan N444JN 1100 hrs. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:22 AM PST US From: "willfly" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Painting --> RV-List message posted by: "willfly" The XP does not require painting. It is mostly anodized. Steve Glasgow ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:11 AM PST US From: James Bond Subject: RV-List: RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again --> RV-List message posted by: James Bond Hello all can you help be find the link to the RV planer web site?? I found a site one time and you typed in the airport and it told you fuel burn for an RV-6 it was great and it was free. I have seen several flight planers that charge to get the info but this seemed related to RV flight planing can someone send me the link. For those that have not used it you put in you curse alt and it caluates fuel burn and trip ticket as where you will be in time check it out. But first we have to find the link. Thanks All James Bond RV-6A Dallas --------------------------------- Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:58 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: RV-List: Re: Painting question for the group --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon Poly Fiber Top Gloss is a water bourne, cross linked urathane top coat paint for aircraft that does not require a pressure breathing, fresh air source. Does anyone have a comment on this product ?? http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ ....."" If you do find a suitable paint that fits your criteria, please follow-up to the list with the product name and supplier(s), and then with progress reports a ......"" .................................................................................... Time: 07:22:18 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: RV-List: Re: Painting question for the group --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon Right under my nose was a 10 month continuing article series in the EAA Sport Aviation Mag. by Ron Alexander on painting your airplane. I've painted cars in high school and did the body work thing so I am no stranger...then again I am not a professional either (Didn't stay in a Holiday Express either) Randolph and Poly Fiber offer a urethane paint process that a charcoal mask is the only breathing requirement, so I am looking into those processes. The new water/cross link systems from Poly Fiber are lung friendly also. I want to research the sanding, blending & polishing aspects of these products, and of course, the long term result and wearability of the top coat of paint. Everyone seems to be shooting the polyurethane paint processes, so I can't argue with success here. Does anyone have any input on the newer Poly Fiber paint processes ?? ............................................................................ Any of the paints (Imron, Catalyzed Centari, Concept, etc.) that use a catalyst *can* be deadly. The catalyst is the "big nasty". I am unaware of any high quality paint that isn't a laquer or enamel which doesn't require forced air respiration. If you do find a suitable paint that fits your criteria, please follow-up to the list with the product name and supplier(s), and then with progress reports as you go through the painting process. Personally, I found the painting process (with the breather, chem-suit, everlasting solvent fumes, etc) the worst of the worst as far as the building process was concerned. KB ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:26 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Plane FUN --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Follow them to the drop zone and pass em then :) Do not archive Shemp x herc drvr ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Gummo Subject: RV-List: Plane FUN > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > Everybody, > > I just learned one of the problems with having the slowest Harmon Rocket. > > I was just finishing a aileron roll when I saw a C-130 fly about 1000 feet > below me. My pax and I both saw TWO shadows on the ground but only one > plane. This caused some delay on my part as I didn't want to find the > second plane the HARD way (never found the second C-130, maybe the second > shadow was mine). So, after a very careful scan of the sky, I dropped the > nose of the Rocket and ran down the C-130. I was only able to get to about > 1000 feet from the C-130 when he started to pull away. > > If I just had one of those "big" engines, I might have been able to pull up > on their wing and waved to the pilots in the cockpit. HOW COOL WOULD THAT > HAVE BEEN. > > I will just have to settle for close but no cigar. IT WAS FUN!!!! > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > Harmon Rocket II, N561FS, flying > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:41 AM PST US From: "Ed Perry" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" Dan's RV Project website has tons of information and is free. The Flight Planner is there and check out the weather page. http://www.rvproject.com/planner.jsp ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bond" Subject: RV-List: RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again > --> RV-List message posted by: James Bond > > Hello all can you help be find the link to the RV planer web site?? > I found a site one time and you typed in the airport and it told you fuel burn for an RV-6 it was great and it was free. I have seen several flight planers that charge to get the info but this seemed related to RV flight planing can someone send me the link. For those that have not used it you put in you curse alt and it caluates fuel burn and trip ticket as where you will be in time check it out. But first we have to find the link. > > > Thanks All > James Bond > RV-6A > Dallas > > > --------------------------------- > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:44 AM PST US From: Doug Gray Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray The question I have is what is the distance between the ends of the stiffners and your mainspar and trailing edge? Also how close is the forward stiffner rivet to the spar? I expect that if the stiffners 'over hang' the end rivet then buffeting would depress the skin and cause the skin and stiffner to separate to a slight extent. This bending would concentrate the strain at the forward rivet. The closer the rivet is placed to the spar (Ah ha .. no prepunching on the old kits here!) I suspect it would be less likely for the skins to crack at the rivet itself. Gluing the stiffner to the skin would further reduce this cracking. Doug Gray Doug Weiler wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" > >>Hey Doug, >> >>When you were building your .016 rudder and elevators, did you put a dab > > of > >>RTV at the trailing edges of the stiffeners? When I did my 6 Van was >>advising to do this to avoid cracks from the skins vibrating. I'm not >>expecting any cracks. >> >>Norman Hunger >>RV6A Delta BC > > > > Yes I did put RTV at the rear of the stiffeners, but I did not do anything > at the front. That seems to be the problem as Alex mentioned in his note. > Perhaps a glob of RTV in the front might also prevent this possibility of > cracks. As I mentioned, 4EM which is just sold had no problem at all in 10 > years. But I'm sure the .020 skins helped. My new RV-4 (22DW) will be > flown unpainted and I just hate to spring for a super paint job to then have > the tail surfaces begin to crack. > > Doug Weiler > Hudson, WI > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:02 AM PST US From: Steven Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Painting question for the group --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart Take a look at a Europa builders experience with Top Gloss. He ended up stripping his plane and repainting it :-( Poly Fiber settled with him for an undisclosed amount. http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272ca.html Steve Eberhart RV-7A - installing Duckworth landing lights P M Condon wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon > > > Poly Fiber Top Gloss is a water bourne, cross linked urathane top coat > paint for aircraft that does not require a pressure breathing, fresh air > source. Does anyone have a comment on this product ?? > > http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ > > > ....."" If you do find a suitable paint > that fits your criteria, please follow-up to the list with the product > name > and supplier(s), and then with progress reports a ......"" > > .................................................................................... > Time: 07:22:18 AM PST US > From: P M Condon > Subject: RV-List: Re: Painting question for the group > > --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon > > Right under my nose was a 10 month continuing article series in the EAA > Sport Aviation Mag. by Ron Alexander on painting your airplane. I've > painted cars in high school and did the body work thing so I am no > stranger...then again I am not a professional either (Didn't stay in a > Holiday Express either) > > Randolph and Poly Fiber offer a urethane paint process that a charcoal > mask is the only breathing requirement, so I am looking into those > processes. The new water/cross link systems from Poly Fiber are lung > friendly also. I want to research the sanding, blending & polishing > aspects of these products, and of course, the long term result and > wearability of the top coat of paint. > > Everyone seems to be shooting the polyurethane paint processes, so I > can't argue with success here. Does anyone have any input on the newer > Poly Fiber paint processes ?? > > > ............................................................................ > Any of the paints (Imron, Catalyzed Centari, Concept, etc.) that use a > catalyst *can* be deadly. The catalyst is the "big nasty". > > I am unaware of any high quality paint that isn't a laquer or enamel > which > doesn't require forced air respiration. If you do find a suitable paint > that fits your criteria, please follow-up to the list with the product > name > and supplier(s), and then with progress reports as you go through the > painting process. Personally, I found the painting process (with the > breather, chem-suit, everlasting solvent fumes, etc) the worst of the > worst > as far as the building process was concerned. > > KB > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:36 AM PST US From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: RV-List: Plane FUN --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" Geeeze, Gummo.... I though Rockets were supposed to be fast. The only thing slower than a Herc is a Hawg. Please don't tell me they out ran you too! You sure you had the canopy closed? Keith Hughes Denver do not archive ----- Original Message ----- >. I was only able to get to about > 1000 feet from the C-130 when he started to pull away. > Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket II, N561FS, flying ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:33 AM PST US From: MeangreenRV4@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Bakersfield EAA 71 BBQ & Fly-in --> RV-List message posted by: MeangreenRV4@aol.com That's right this Saturday, May 31st make your plans to fly in to Bakersfield Mun5), spend the day with us. EAA Chapter 71 is putting on one hell of a BBQ. Lots of fast airplanes & good people. We will be serving around 2:30-3:00 Tri-tip, beans, Salad, Bread, & Beverages. The local weather man says it will be another beautiful day in Bakersfield. Any questions please call Tim Barnes (661) 393-7519 or John Harmon (661) 836-1028.................................See ya there! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:20 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Trip Planer Link can you help me find it again --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com In a message dated 05/29/2003 8:38:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rvflyingisfun@yahoo.com writes: > Hello all can you help be find the link to the RV planer web site?? Sounds painful. Hoow much thickness does it shave off in one pass? Any airspeed increase from that? > I found a site one time and you typed in the airport and it told you fuel > burn for an RV-6 it was great and it was free. I have seen several flight > planers that charge to get the info but this seemed related to RV flight planing > can someone send me the link. For those that have not used it you put in you > curse alt and it caluates > > Let me guess: do you have to enter "you curse alt" in Hex-a-decimal??? > > sorry. should have resisted, I guess... too rainy to fly today, bored at > work... > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:02 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From: czechsix@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com Check out Van's website....RV-10 is flying. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D prepping for paint... The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:04 AM PST US From: "Fabian Lefler" Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-10 First Flight --> RV-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" Just got off the phone with Ken Scott (Vans) he told me that the RV-10 flew just a 1/2 hour or so ago, and pictures should be on the website in about a couple of hours. Fabian 90292 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:06 AM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Hi All, Just curious. 1.) Have any of these 360/CS combinations been dynamically balanced AND have a problem with elevator/rudder skin cracks? 2.) Have any of the 360 non-counterweighted engines been running in the 2000 to 2300 RPM range AND getting elevator/rudder skin cracks? Jim Ayers ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:28 PM PST US From: "John Furey" Subject: RV-List: Vibrations --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" All this talk about cracks make me question ... I went from a very smooth O-360 Sterba to a Rough O-320 Sensinich. Other than the inherent difference in the wood vs metal is there anything that you are doing to smooth these out? John Furey RV6A 80hrs ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:59 PM PST US From: terence.gannon@telus.net Subject: RV-List: Toronto-area Builders --> RV-List message posted by: terence.gannon@telus.net 'Listers -- I'm looking for somebody in the Toronto, Ontario area that might be in a position to help me out. I'm considering the purchase of a project aircraft out there, and it would be useful to get some pictures of it and have them emailed to me. If you may be in a position to help me out, please contact me off list. Thank you very much! Regards, Terry in Calgary RV-6 S/N 24414 "Wings" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:53 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I think the 10 is going to sell well. It looks great in the air, and IF it can perform with 4 people as well as the -9 with 2 people it ought to be a great success. I wish I could afford one. czechsix@juno.com wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com Check out Van's website....RV-10 is flying. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D prepping for paint... The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you Luke 6:28, NAS --------------------------------- Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:36 PM PST US From: Bob Japundza Subject: RV-List: Re: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza Guys, I have had cracks on my RV-6 rudder show up on the forward end on three stiffeners on the right side. Airplane has 180 with a Hartzell and I do a fair amount of gentleman's aerobatics. Prop was dynamically balanced and it runs smooth. The rudder cracks started around 200 hours, then stopped (they haven't gotten any longer, started elsewhere, etc.). I am still flying with the cracks there and they have posed no problem in the last 250 hours, and I've kept a close eye on them Rather than over analyze the thing I think it has to do with workmanship more than anything. If there is any sort of oil-canning then cracks will propagate. On the other side of the rudder, and above and below the side where the cracks are there is no oil canning, thus no cracks. I believe the .020 is more forgiving when you bend the trailing edge as far as the oilcanning goes. If you use a 3/16" rod inside the trailing edge to support the skins as you bend them then you shouldn't have a problem. I have recently built a new RV-7 rudder/vfin for the airplane and bent the t/e as I described and everything is as tight as a drum. I did use some old proseal to glue the stiffeners as I riveted them on and that worked out very well, albeit a little messy. Regards, Bob Japundza, RV-6 N244BJ --------------------------------- Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:41 PM PST US From: Richard Pettigrew Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Pettigrew I built a 1991 kit with the .016 rudder skins , 160HP + fixed pitch Sensenich . Cracks started appearing at the front edge of the stiffeners in the rudder after about 150 hrs. They are progressing slowly and after 650 hrs there are about 6 of them starting at the final front rivet in the stiffener . Sooner or later a new rudder will probably be in order. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:00 PM PST US From: Richard Pettigrew Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Pettigrew Where do you get Click Patches ? ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:25 PM PST US From: Rquinn1@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Cracked canopy --> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com I have a 2" crack in my windscreen. I stop drilled the crack as soon as I noticed it and it seems to have ended. Does any one have a suggestion how I can repair or hide the crack? I looked in the archives but could find nothing about repairing cracks. Thanks Rollie ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:10 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com > > Hi All, > > Just curious. > > 1.) Have any of these 360/CS combinations been dynamically > balanced AND have > a problem with elevator/rudder skin cracks? Yes. > > 2.) Have any of the 360 non-counterweighted engines been > running in the 2000 > to 2300 RPM range AND getting elevator/rudder skin cracks? No. BTW, there is no noticable vibration in the 2000 - 2250 rpm range. Any untoward vibrations that may exist in that range are torsional on the crank, and don't show up in the airframe that I can notice. Good questions, both. However, if the airframe were vibrating enough to crack the rudder, much larger pieces would fall off. The issue, in my engineering opinion, is that the rudder or elevator skin assembly gets excited by the prop pulses at its natural frequency, hence causing some resonance. This is exacerbated by the fact that the stiffeners don't attach to the spar at their forward points, and act as a stress concentrator at their forward end. This same problem exists at their aft end, but is easily remedied by the recommended RTV. Go push on the side of the rudder skins, and watch the area around the forward most rivet on the stiffeners. Duh. It is interesting to note that the RV10's stiffeners are attached to the spar... congratulations to Van on the first flight! Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 308 hours www.rvforum.org www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:23 PM PST US From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" Hey Guys, Does anyone know if someone at Van's reads this list? I have never seen a single posting on this list from Van's about anything. I would think that they would want to watch this list for things that they could help with. Just curious! DOC ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:12 PM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior Alex Peterson wrote: > The issue, in my > engineering opinion, is that the rudder or elevator skin assembly gets > excited by the prop pulses at its natural frequency, hence causing some > resonance. This is exacerbated by the fact that the stiffeners don't > attach to the spar at their forward points, and act as a stress > concentrator at their forward end. This same problem exists at their > aft end, but is easily remedied by the recommended RTV. Go push on the > side of the rudder skins, and watch the area around the forward most > rivet on the stiffeners. With this in mind, is it possible that applying a small amount of RTV in a "patch" around the forward end of the stiffeners would distribute this load enough to prevent cracks? In my "engineering opinion", it seems a patch about 1 to 1.5" in diameter centered at the end of the stiffener may do it... But i'm not that familiar with the properties of RTV so I couldn't say for sure. As a related question, are people applying RTV along the entire length of the stiffeners as well as in the trailing edge, or just at the trailing edge? -Rob rv7 "at" b4.ca ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:12 PM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vibrations --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" John Furey wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" > > All this talk about cracks make me question ... I went from a very smooth O-360 Sterba to a Rough O-320 Sensinich. Other than the inherent difference in the wood vs metal is there anything that you are doing to smooth these out? > > John Furey > RV6A 80hrs is this a new Sensenich? I had a prop once that was rough when It came back from a re-pitch. We checked it up and down the blades with a prop protractor at 6 inch stations and found that the pitch from each side vairied from the other side. (only perhaps .2 of a degree, but it was un matched all over the prop) I sent it to another guy who had high recomendations and he "trued " it so that each blade matched the other blade. This worked out great for me. just a thought. Phil ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:46 PM PST US From: "Keith Vasey" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Vasey" I took off today right behind Van. He was in the RV-10. I was in our Mooney Ovation2 demonstrator. He has 260 horses I have 280. I'm probably about twice the weight, but I took a lot more than twice the runway to get off! I like the looks of it. I wanted to sit in the back seat, but they weren't letting lookey-loos close to it. Keith Vasey RV-8 (finish kit) Seattle Spent way too much money at the factory today. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-10 First Flight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I think the 10 is going to sell well. It looks great in the air, and IF it can perform with 4 people as well as the -9 with 2 people it ought to be a great success. I wish I could afford one. czechsix@juno.com wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com Check out Van's website....RV-10 is flying. --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D prepping for paint... The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you Luke 6:28, NAS --------------------------------- Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:38 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator/rudder cracks --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > As a related question, are people applying RTV along the entire length > of the stiffeners as well as in the trailing edge, or just at the > trailing edge? I have a blob at the end of each stiffener that is big enough to bridge across to the corresponding stiffener on the other side. That's my interpretation of the instructions. properties but it's stiffness is quite low, so I don't think it would redistribute the load significantly or change the resonant frequency much unless there was a truly huge glob of it at that location. So I don't think it would help. (A subjective opinion, only.) I think you'd need something stiffer, like a patch of aluminum (or, evidently, thicker skins). Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC -6 wings ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:09 PM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Cracked canopy --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Actually, there is quite a bit of information about repairing a canopy crack in the archives, the most innovative solution that I read about was to put an EAA sticker over the crack! Sorry I can't tell you exactly were to look. Bob >I have a 2" crack in my windscreen. I stop drilled the crack as soon as I >noticed it and it seems to have ended. Does any one have a suggestion how I >can repair or hide the crack? >I looked in the archives but could find nothing about repairing cracks. >Thanks >Rollie > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:28 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Scott McDaniels used to monitor the list and he gave us direct input to Van's and always had good information to share, but a few of the guys on the list were unnecessarily rough on him and ran him off. I can't say that I blamed him for leaving either. Some people just don't know when they've got a good thing going. Dave Dr. Leathers wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > >Hey Guys, > >Does anyone know if someone at Van's reads this list? I have never seen a single posting on this list from Van's about anything. > >I would think that they would want to watch this list for things that they could help with. Just curious! > >DOC > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:35 PM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: Bob I have been on the list for nine years, the closest I have seen to anyone from Van's on the list was Jeremey Benedict, who was the son of one of Van's empoyees. Jeremy is now flying on the other side. Bob >Does anyone know if someone at Van's reads this list? I have never seen a >single posting on this list from Van's about anything. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:05 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Scott M was here for a very long time. Jeremy was not actually doing any tech help. Bob wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Bob > > I have been on the list for nine years, the closest I have seen to anyone > from Van's on the list was Jeremey Benedict, who was the son of one of > Van's empoyees. Jeremy is now flying on the other side. > > Bob > > > >>Does anyone know if someone at Van's reads this list? I have never seen a >>single posting on this list from Van's about anything. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:36 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" It used to be monitored by a Van's employee but after a couple of rude comments, he quit! Some need to be a little more restrained with their nasty comments. He was very helpful until the insults. Cy Galley - MVR-AACA www.aaca.org/mvr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: RV-List: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Hey Guys, > > Does anyone know if someone at Van's reads this list? I have never seen a single posting on this list from Van's about anything. > > I would think that they would want to watch this list for things that they could help with. Just curious! > > DOC > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:10 PM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:Cracked Canopy --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com I have used 'Super Glue' to seal and hide cracks in windshields. I just applied with a toothpick and let it migrate down into the crack. Just apply enough to fill the crack. do not arvhive Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Painting question for the group From: James Freeman --> RV-List message posted by: James Freeman > > Randolph and Poly Fiber offer a urethane paint process that a charcoal > mask is the only breathing requirement, so I am looking into those > processes. The new water/cross link systems from Poly Fiber are lung > friendly also. I want to research the sanding, blending & polishing > aspects of these products, and of course, the long term result and > wearability of the top coat of paint. > > Everyone seems to be shooting the polyurethane paint processes, so I > can't argue with success here. Does anyone have any input on the newer > Poly Fiber paint processes ?? > > > ........ > You might want to read a few pages here: http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272ca.html one not so good experience with Poly fiber "Top Gloss" well documented. JFF ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:35 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RV-List: windscreen fairing cracks/vibrations --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" Listers, I have been living with several cracks in my paint along the base of my windscreen fairing where it blends into the fuselage deck. This happened early after I had the plane painted and I am pretty much convinced it's from that Lycosaur wet-dog rattle that it always does upon startup. I mean, the whole front end of the airplane just gets wracked when it fires off. Have any of you folks had this same problem? I used carbon fiber and glass tape to lay up the fairing, and it was filled with Vari prime before final paint application. Nothing terribly unusual there. I put almost 100 hours on the airplane before paint, and the fairing showed no signs at all of stress. Maybe the paint is too thick or brittle, primer wasn't applied properly, or not adhering? (PPG metallic urethane with clearcoat.) It's not truly a "fairing", I suppose, as it's permanently adhered to the windshield and fuse. I scuffed up both surfaces plenty well and cleaned before applying the resin and carbon/glass tapes. The windscreen is quite securely attached to the airplane, but that twisting motion must have been just enough to tweak the paint. It's not all that noticeable from a distance (not at all actually) but looks crappy up close. My engine is O-360 with a metal 72FM Sensenich prop. Yeah, I know...a shaky combination. Thanks for any input you may have. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD the -10 flies! Uh oh...where's my credit card ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:10 PM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: Cracked canopy --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes At 07:08 PM 5/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com > >I have a 2" crack in my windscreen. I stop drilled the crack as soon as I >noticed it and it seems to have ended. Does any one have a suggestion how I >can repair or hide the crack? The windscreen is acrylic plastic which can be welded. One side of the crack can be welded to the other by using a syringe to insert a tiny amount of name of stuff goes here . Check with a plastic supplier. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:32 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: windscreen fairing cracks/vibrations --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Brian, It's probably cracking due to the different expansion rates of the aluminum skin and glass fairing with temperature changes. My recommendation (which of course won't help you now) is to make the fairing a separate piece and not try to blend it into the skin. I think you'll find that others have had the same problem. Dave RV6, So Cal EAA Technical Counselor Brian Denk wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > >Listers, > >I have been living with several cracks in my paint along the base of my >windscreen fairing where it blends into the fuselage deck. This happened >early after I had the plane painted and I am pretty much convinced it's from >that Lycosaur wet-dog rattle that it always does upon startup. I mean, the >whole front end of the airplane just gets wracked when it fires off. Have >any of you folks had this same problem? > >I used carbon fiber and glass tape to lay up the fairing, and it was filled >with Vari prime before final paint application. Nothing terribly unusual >there. I put almost 100 hours on the airplane before paint, and the fairing >showed no signs at all of stress. Maybe the paint is too thick or brittle, >primer wasn't applied properly, or not adhering? (PPG metallic urethane with >clearcoat.) It's not truly a "fairing", I suppose, as it's permanently >adhered to the windshield and fuse. I scuffed up both surfaces plenty well >and cleaned before applying the resin and carbon/glass tapes. > >The windscreen is quite securely attached to the airplane, but that twisting >motion must have been just enough to tweak the paint. It's not all that >noticeable from a distance (not at all actually) but looks crappy up close. >My engine is O-360 with a metal 72FM Sensenich prop. Yeah, I know...a shaky >combination. > >Thanks for any input you may have. > >Brian Denk >RV8 N94BD >the -10 flies! Uh oh...where's my credit card > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:19 PM PST US From: Art Glaser Subject: Re: RV-List: Cracked canopy --> RV-List message posted by: Art Glaser Weldon is available in several forms including a solvent and I believe a two part filler that cures clear. kempthornes wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes > > At 07:08 PM 5/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com > > > >I have a 2" crack in my windscreen. I stop drilled the crack as soon as I > >noticed it and it seems to have ended. Does any one have a suggestion how I > >can repair or hide the crack? > > The windscreen is acrylic plastic which can be welded. One side of the > crack can be welded to the other by using a syringe to insert a tiny amount > of name of stuff goes here . Check with a plastic supplier. > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > RV6-a N7HK flying! > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:56 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Vibrations --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Have you tried getting it dynamically balanced? James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Furey > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:01 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Vibrations > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" > > All this talk about cracks make me question ... I went from a > very smooth O-360 Sterba to a Rough O-320 Sensinich. Other than > the inherent difference in the wood vs metal is there anything > that you are doing to smooth these out? > > John Furey > RV6A 80hrs > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:34 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Scott McDaniels used to until he decided he had far better things to do than get insulted for trying to help people during his "free time". I, for some reason, **think** he might from time to time listen in but I doubt if he will take the time again to actively participate. I would have quit too given some of the snide, cynical, un-called for remarks. Also, if they spent as much time as some of spend on this list, the RV-10 would not be flying (or designed!) yet. :-) James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dr. Leathers > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 7:59 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > Hey Guys, > > Does anyone know if someone at Van's reads this list? I have > never seen a single posting on this list from Van's about anything. > > I would think that they would want to watch this list for things > that they could help with. Just curious! > > DOC > >