Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Neil Henderson)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (PASSPAT@aol.com)
3. 05:30 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Cy Galley)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Cy Galley)
5. 07:28 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Mark Phillips)
6. 08:04 AM - EAA- 25 pilots to Kitty Hawk (A20driver@aol.com)
7. 08:19 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Cy Galley)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge ()
9. 09:55 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Elsa & Henry)
10. 10:25 AM - Re: Vans Oil temp gauge WAS:Oil Pressure Gauge (kempthornes)
11. 10:38 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (kempthornes)
12. 10:42 AM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (kempthornes)
13. 12:03 PM - Re: Aerosport rocker covers for sale (Doug Weiler)
14. 01:04 PM - Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
15. 01:37 PM - Re: Central Texas Fly-in (Bob Hassel)
16. 03:42 PM - Lyc. Eng. parts (Bell, Bruce B.)
17. 03:43 PM - Re: Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? (RGray67968@aol.com)
18. 03:50 PM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Meketa)
19. 04:41 PM - Re: Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? (Dan Checkoway)
20. 04:43 PM - Re: Atitude Indicator Interference? (Kenneth Beene)
21. 05:03 PM - RV Ramblings-Long (Larry Pardue)
22. 05:08 PM - Dynon D-10 (Doug Rozendaal)
23. 05:20 PM - So, Mike Stewart, How did you do? (BBreckenridge@att.net)
24. 06:31 PM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Alex Peterson)
25. 06:36 PM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Ernest Kells)
26. 07:01 PM - cowl preparation & Superfil (Dave Ford)
27. 07:22 PM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Cy Galley)
28. 07:46 PM - Eng. Instrument redundancy (thomas a. sargent)
29. 07:51 PM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Larry Bowen)
30. 08:07 PM - Re: cowl preparation & Superfil (Brian Denk)
31. 08:21 PM - Re: Eng. Instrument redundancy (RV6 Flyer)
32. 08:23 PM - Re: Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? (Mark Phillips)
33. 08:41 PM - Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge (Dave Bristol)
34. 09:19 PM - Re: floor mods (was: Atitude Indicator Interference?) (Dan Checkoway)
35. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: floor mods (was: Atitude Indicator Interference?) (Jerry Springer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
My sender is mounted on the Van's Transducer Manifold. This is Anodized Alloy.
Not conducive to a good electrical connection. Possible problem?
Neil Henderson RV9-A ( Firewall Foward ) Aylesbury UK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: PASSPAT@aol.com
Hi
Guys I studied Vans sending units for fuel pressure using regulated
pressure
We had four sending units. We tested them from 0-15 psi we used
regulated
pressure and cert anolog gauges . We found all sending units to be
defective to
some degree .
all sending units had some internal friction which reflected
differrent presure
readings at the same regulated settings.
Also we found that both MP and AM were very easy
to pick up RFI from the radio transmissions and during transmitting
gave false
readings as well. We concluded that the guage itself with reguards to
the read-
ing was ok the sending units in all cases was the problem.
Pat Patterson
RV-7-A N602EP / EAA-TC / A&P
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
On the other hand, the direct reading mechanical gage is known to break. The
oil then is quickly pumped out leaving NO OIL. This is why car
manufacturers don't use them anymore.
Which is better... a defective gage that says no oil or a mechanical gage
that has no oil?
If you feel the need for redundancy, then get a second electric transducer.
Incidentally, placing a restrictor in the mechanical pressure line only
slows down the oil loss when the line breaks. This gives you maybe another
minute or two. You have had a primer line break haven't you? Same kind of
line.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>
> > >
> > > Has anyone had trouble with Vans Oil Pressure Gauge?
> > > My gauge reads ok on startup but once in the air oil
> > pressure slowly
> > > varies form 80 to 40 to 60 to 25 to 40, somtimes 0. I have an idiot
> > > light installed (mostly to remind me to shut the master
> > off) it never
> > > lights up. A buddy of mine and I installed a tee and ran
> > the electric
> > > sender and a manual oil pressure gauge of a common line.
> > Manual gauge
> > > read 80 electric showed 20. I've checked for loose wire and such.
> > > Anyone have any ideas?
> > >
> > > John Danielson
> > > RV-6 145 hrs.
> > >
> > Been there, seen that. It certainly got my heart rate up
> > until I got used to it. Mine usually headed toward zero as
> > soon as I got about 10 miles into
> > the Mountains. I've been fighting the problem off and on
> > for years, with
> > Van's remote oil press sensor and indicator. What I wound up
> > with was the following which has worked for over a year. (I
> > also swapped out sensors and gages, etc.).
>
> Folks, this is why, with an electric oil pressure gauge, I consider it
> mandatory to have a mechanical backup. UMA sells a nice small gauge,
> plumb it in with 1/8 line, and problem solved. When the electric one
> shows zero pressure, what course of action can one take other than an
> immediate precautionary landing? The only other reliable indicator that
> the pressure is indeed zero is when the engine packs it in. All other
> engine indications are not as important or have other backups. I know,
> one can look at the oil temp, but this assumes you have oil reaching the
> sender.
>
> Please consider what you would do if your sole source of oil pressure
> indication says zero.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 309 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Anodized Aluminum is NON-conductive!
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson"
<neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
>
> My sender is mounted on the Van's Transducer Manifold. This is Anodized
Alloy. Not conducive to a good electrical connection. Possible problem?
>
> Neil Henderson RV9-A ( Firewall Foward ) Aylesbury UK
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Then I suppose tapping the holes used for the transducers slightly
deeper to remove the anodizing and using star lock washers under the
manifold mounting bolt heads would resolve this? How reliable is
checking for low resistance from the transducer housing to ground using
a DMM?
From The PossumWorks
Mark
Cy Galley wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Anodized Aluminum is NON-conductive!
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson"
>>
> <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
>
>>My sender is mounted on the Van's Transducer Manifold. This is Anodized
>>
> Alloy. Not conducive to a good electrical connection. Possible problem?
>
>>Neil Henderson RV9-A ( Firewall Foward ) Aylesbury UK
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | EAA- 25 pilots to Kitty Hawk |
--> RV-List message posted by: A20driver@aol.com
Did everyone notice how few experimental planes were selected by the EAA to
do the state flag flight to Kitty Hawk??? Begins to look like the EAA div. of
the AOPA....Jim Brown, NJ, 2-RV-3s and an RV-4
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
If deeper tapping would not damage internals, this would help. The star
washer by itself, however should fix it. Your DMM should be able to check
for high resistances.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Then I suppose tapping the holes used for the transducers slightly
> deeper to remove the anodizing and using star lock washers under the
> manifold mounting bolt heads would resolve this? How reliable is
> checking for low resistance from the transducer housing to ground using
> a DMM?
>
> From The PossumWorks
> Mark
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > Anodized Aluminum is NON-conductive!
> >
> > Cy Galley
> > Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson"
> >>
> > <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
> >
> >>My sender is mounted on the Van's Transducer Manifold. This is Anodized
> >>
> > Alloy. Not conducive to a good electrical connection. Possible problem?
> >
> >>Neil Henderson RV9-A ( Firewall Foward ) Aylesbury UK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
I have Van's OP gauge and sender, mounted on the anodized manifold.
Tightening down the sender apparently does a good job of getting through
the anodization, as I have a measured 0.05 ohms resistance between the
sender case and single point aircraft ground, and rock steady OP
indications (ditto Van's FP gauge/sender).
Also have Low OP LED as a backup (seperate DPST sender, also operates
Hobbs meter). Did not consider mechanical gauges, as thier use invites
the possibility of either fluid, under pressure, spraying into the cockpit
without a ready way to stop it when airborne.
Rob Acker (RV-6 flying)
do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Anodized Aluminum is NON-conductive!
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson"
> <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
>>
>> My sender is mounted on the Van's Transducer Manifold. This is
>> Anodized
> Alloy. Not conducive to a good electrical connection. Possible problem?
>>
>> Neil Henderson RV9-A ( Firewall Foward ) Aylesbury UK
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
I don't know about you-all, but any electrical device, transducers, et-al,
that rely on electrical ground contact through its mechanical mounting
method is completely unacceptable to me! Hard wire electrical grounds should
be provided. When I purchased my Westach dual oil-pressure / temperature
instrument, its sender has a four wire connector, one of which is a ground.
As I was also going to use Van's sender transducer manifold, I wanted to
make sure that it did not rely on a ground through the sender's 1/8-27
thread, (what with anodized threads, thread sealant, [what kind of
electrical contact can you reliably expect from that?] ) so I made a bench
test set-up and determined that the ground wire did the job and grounding
the case of the sender made no difference.
Cheers!!---Henry Hore
Message 10
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| Subject: | Vans Oil temp gauge WAS:Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 10:21 PM 6/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Mckenna" <mmckenna@bellsouth.net>
Speaking of ohms, my oil temp gauge is reading low, I suspect. Anyone able
to tell me ohms etc for sender? I do get full scale indications with zero
and infinite resistence so I suspect the sender mostly.
I guess I could boil it etc.
hal
>Sensor 3 ohms = 0 lbs
>Sensor 93 ohms = 60 lbs
>Sensor 113 ohms = 80 lbs
>Sensor 190 ohms = 150 lbs
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 07:28 AM 6/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>On the other hand, the direct reading mechanical gage is known to break. The
>oil then is quickly pumped out leaving NO OIL. This is why car
>manufacturers don't use them anymore.
I think the only thing worse than an oil line to gauge leaking on me would
be a fuel pressure line leaking on me.
Minimize the fluids in the cockpit, methinks.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 10:08 PM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>Folks, this is why, with an electric oil pressure gauge, I consider it
>mandatory to have a mechanical backup.
or an idiot light. One ounce.
Besides, how often do you look at your oil pressure gauge? A burst hose
or oil cooler could lose enough oil in thirty seconds that your actual
alarm might be a loud clatter.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aerosport rocker covers for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
.com>
>
> Greetings all:
>
> I have a set of AeroSport rocker box covers for sale (0-360, but I think
> they will also fit the 0-320). They are in perfect condition but will not
> fit a RV-4 (as I found out when I did the final fit on my airplane). They
> are fine for a RV-6, 7, 8, or 9. $100 for the 4 includes shipping.
Photos
> are here:
>
> http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/mnwing/id74.htm
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
Got 'em sold.
Thanks all
Doug
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
You can put it to one side or a lot lower.
Jerry
<< Time: 09:11:50 PM PST US
From: <315@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Atitude Indicator Interference?
--> RV-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
I bought an RV6A that has a non standard instrument layout. All the
standard 6 are there just not in the normal configuration. I was looking at
remounting them in the Standard config when I found that there is a
longitudinal rib on the back of the panel that prevents mounting the AI in
the top center hole. Anyone know how to work around this rib or modify it?
Thanks,
Ned
>>
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE: Central Texas Fly-in |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Quick update.
Just back from the Central Texas Flyin outside of Waco Tx.
Lot's of beautiful RV's, great people and fun, fun, fun! Two runways, two
parking areas (one for the production/war birds and the other for the RV's).
The crowds lined up under the mesquite trees on both sides of the RV runway,
to watch everyone come and go. You could smell the BBQ cooking, mixed in
with the sounds of engines, laughter and gentle fun badgering from those
evaluating the landings.
Right before the lunch hour there was a ten ship formation flying over that
really looked impressive to those of us on the ground. Could have been those
great 'Team RV' members leading the pack and it definitely looked like they
had been practicing.
Someone had a quiet Eggenfellner subie there as well as a rotary. The top
was popped on the eggenfellner so you could see it up close and personal.
Tru-Trak had their RV9A there loaded with ALL models of their auto-pilot
system. They had lexan windows in the wing and baggage area so you could
see their servo's. Why would you not put one of these in your 9 (or any
other x-country RV)?????? They looked great! They also had a Dynon EFIS
mounted in the panel. They were friendly as ever had dozens of us crawling
around their aircraft at any given time.
Only one incident, a RV8 went over on it's back. From what I could tell the
pilot received only minor injuries. He was coming in for a landing.
Pictures at 11. Just glad there were no serious injuries. The local Waco
EAA chapter appeared to be giving a hand and Doug Reeves was there even
though Flash wasn't.
We had a great time and ended up sprinting back up the highway to Dallas.
I'll post more about this new exciting journey on my web site as soon as I
get the pictures back.
Bob Hassel
RV9A - Plano, Tx
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell@door.net>
Hi All,
Where is a good place to buy O-320 parts. Rocker Arms and push rods.
Regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? |
--> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
Hmmm, I don't think that was quite the answer he was looking for. He wants to
use the same hole.........silly wabbit.
You'll have to cut the 60? (forget the number - nice to be flying :
)) rib to
allow enough room for the gyro to clear. Beef up the rib with some angle or
channel along the edge you cut out! Piece of cake when building. You may have
to secure your angle 'doubler' with pops since your bird is flying. Hope you
have an angle drill - if not get a 90 for your dremmel - one of the best tools
I
owned when building was the 90 attachment.
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
> You can put it to one side or a lot lower.
>
> Jerry
>
> <<Time: 09:11:50 PM PST US
> From: <315@cox.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Atitude Indicator Interference?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
> I bought an RV6A that has a non standard instrument layout. All the
> standard 6 are there just not in the normal configuration. I was looking at
> remounting them in the Standard config when I found that there is a
> longitudinal rib on the back of the panel that prevents mounting the AI in
> the top center hole. Anyone know how to work around this rib or modify it?
>
> Thanks,
> Ned
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Meketa" <acgm@gvtc.com>
Hello Yall
Wow! No senders without hardwired grounds, mechanical gauges only,
two oil pressure gauges.
If proper grounding practices are used a one wire senders body ground is
just as reliable as one hardwired independently. Millions of cars have them
with no problem.
I would personally never install a mechanical liquid pressure gauge in my
cockpit. Any failure would make a large mess and could be dangerous. A
high quality flex hose setup would add unnecessary weight. Also how many
good looking mechanical gauges that match others in the RV's are available?
(Have an RV4 friend who had a 1/8 copper line break with a cockpit full of
oil before he could land)
Instead of two gauges install an IDIOT lamp as others have stated. The only
problem is the low pressure threshold of the switches most use. My answer
was to use a transmission pressure switch from Chrysler. It opens the
contacts
at 35-40 psi (the red line on Van's gauge) giving true warning before total
loss
of pressure, has 1/8" pipe thread to match what we normally use and has two
spade terminals so either 12+ or ground can be switched depending on builder
needs.
Now I guess you want the part number? Chrysler #4221346. Order at your
local dealer.
George Meketa
RV8, N444TX, 322.3 hrs
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry"
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
> I don't know about you-all, but any electrical device, transducers, et-al,
> that rely on electrical ground contact through its mechanical mounting
> method is completely unacceptable to me! Hard wire electrical grounds
should
> be provided. When I purchased my Westach dual oil-pressure / temperature
> instrument, its sender has a four wire connector, one of which is a
ground.
> As I was also going to use Van's sender transducer manifold, I wanted to
> make sure that it did not rely on a ground through the sender's 1/8-27
> thread, (what with anodized threads, thread sealant, [what kind of
> electrical contact can you reliably expect from that?] ) so I made a bench
> test set-up and determined that the ground wire did the job and grounding
> the case of the sender made no difference.
>
> Cheers!!---Henry Hore
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I had this issue on my RV-7, where I wanted to put my AI (Dynon) directly in
front of me, as opposed to working around the panel rib. I moved the left
panel rib over about 2" to the left and it worked out great. Photos and
description here...
http://www.rvproject.com/20030209.html
I've been taking some flak on another list for making modifications in
various places to Van's design (i.e. baggage floor compartment)...so just
for the record, I'm not advocating modifying the per-plans design, I'm just
posting what I have done for your reference.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re:Atitude Indicator Interference?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> You can put it to one side or a lot lower.
>
> Jerry
>
> << Time: 09:11:50 PM PST US
> From: <315@cox.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Atitude Indicator Interference?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
>
> I bought an RV6A that has a non standard instrument layout. All the
> standard 6 are there just not in the normal configuration. I was looking
at
> remounting them in the Standard config when I found that there is a
> longitudinal rib on the back of the panel that prevents mounting the AI in
> the top center hole. Anyone know how to work around this rib or modify
it?
>
> Thanks,
> Ned
> >>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Atitude Indicator Interference? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene@citilink.com>
>
> I bought an RV6A that has a non standard instrument layout.
> All the standard 6 are there just not in the normal
> configuration. I was looking at remounting them in the
> Standard config when I found that there is a longitudinal rib
> on the back of the panel that prevents mounting the AI in the
> top center hole. Anyone know how to work around this rib or
> modify it?
>
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
Ned,
I don't know if you have a tip up or slider. The slider has a rib that
will be in the way of the AI. It can be modified to make room but this
would be difficult on a finished slider if the panel is riveted in
place. I cut out much of the rib and used an 1/8 inch doubler to
stiffen the remaining part. You can see the modified rib at
http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/building_finishing.html
The instrument layout is shown at
http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/
Good luck,
Ken
Message 21
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| Subject: | RV Ramblings-Long |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@carlsbad.net>
Listers:
When I checked the winds for todays foray over to Scott Field, it looked
like it was setting up pretty well for a high over, low back flight. I like
to do my best to get the best benefit out of tailwinds and the least penalty
from headwinds. I loaded the oxygen canula, because it looked like the best
tailwinds would be around 15,000 feet from Carlsbad, NM to Waco, TX. The
great altitude capabilities of the RV's make for a large selection of
practical altitudes.
During the climb I watched the difference in the TAS display on the
microEncoder and the GS display on the GPS. As it turned out, the winds
dropped off after 14,000 or so, so I went back down to 13,500 for the trip.
The tailwind component was about 20 to 25 knots and the temperature in the
high 30's F, a little cold for the way I was dressed for a summer afternoon
in central Texas. The low airdensity at this altitude allowed a fuel burn
of around 7 GPH with a groundspeed of 185 to 190 knots, just the way it is
supposed to work.
I couldn't see very much, flying into the Sun, but when the Sun would duck
behind some altocumulus there was a great glitter of water for about 30
miles, toward the Sun. Obviously there has been quite a bit of rain in
central Texas, and there must have been enough breeze to produce little
waves for me to see the reflection so bright for so many miles.
After slinging myself around P-49 I started looking for Scott Field. I am a
veteran of these fly-ins, so should be able to spot the airport, but I saw
something that looked like an airport and kind of focused too much on it.
Big mistake! Scott Field looks nothing at all like an airport. Finally I
saw a few RV's parked amongst the trees and realized I had arrived.
The wind today was light and variable and the grass was wet in the morning.
My landing was not very satisfying. I think the approach speed would have
been about right for a level runway, but 17, that we were landing on, is a
little downhill. I floated more than I would have liked, then did not have
very good braking action on the wet grass. I thought, rightaway, that people
were going to have to do things right today on this obstructed 1,900 foot
runway. I arrived at about 8:30 AM; 7:30 my time.
Attendance was down this year, but it was a good number of airplanes. Not
so many that the pattern got real busy and not so many that parking was a
problem and not so many you couldn't see them all and not so many that our
hosts ran out of food, but enough that there were lots of good and genial
people and enough that there were several showplanes and enough that there
was an interesting variety of aiplanes and powerplants, including Subaru and
rotary engines. Mark Frederick had his outrageous new F1 Rocket with a
steeply raked windscreen and MIG paint job. Bernie Kerr was taking an
inventory, so can say how many were there.
During the morning, there were quite a few go arounds during landing
attempts and every go around was a good decision. Around midmorning came
the RV-8 that was carrying quite a bit of speed, nearing the end of 17. You
could see the thoughts flashing through the pilot's head. Right at the end
of the runway, it appeared to me, he attempted to groundloop it, which I
thought was the appropriate decision at that point. As it started to go
around to the right, the tail came up, and it flipped, not right over the
nose, but over the nose and left wingtip. Many people ran over and helped
extricate the pilot. It appeared his worst injury was a cut from the broken
canopy plexiglass. I guess that stuff is sharper than it would seem, when
it is broken. He may also have gotten a thump on the head.
It was sobering stuff, but there was a light side. An ambulance came to
transport the pilot to a hospital and law enforcement officers came to
"investigate" the accident. This was certainly good entertainment. One
bystander remarked that it looked like they wanted to arrest somebody. They
cordoned off the area for the "investigation." It made me realize the big
difference in auto and airplane wrecks. This incident was witnessed by many
highly qualified witnesses and every one of them knows what happened, but it
is not like any kind of law was broken. It is more like an automobile race,
where things happen to very competent people. With the normal car accident,
someone probably broke a law and someone will probably get a ticket, maybe
two people. In the incident that happend at Scott today or what happens on
a race track it is different. Such a high level of competence is required
that it takes very little for things to go wrong. When someone is good and
is trying their hardest, it may not be quite enough every time if the
endevor is demanding..
Visible damage to the RV-8 was a crushed left wingtip, broken canopy,
buckled right fuselage side and minor damage to wheel pants and rudder
tip/vertical stabilizer tip. Also, of course, bent prop blades, but the
Sensenich 72FM8 was not bent much.
Reassured that the pilot did not seem to be seriously injured and having
enjoyed the precision formation flying show, we dug into barbeque. There
were links or barbeque sandwiches with the fixings and a large selection of
tempting deserts, along with lots of drinks. I kept trying but could not
exhaust the supply of iced tea. The weather was warm and clear but not
really hot. Very pleasant under all the shade.
My plan was to refuel at Gatesville, before returning home, but there was
nobody there when I landed. I think he was over at Scott having more
dessert. I went on to Brownwood, which turned out to be a good deal. $1.95
self serve fuel. I'm a big fan of that self serve stuff. No call out fees.
Headed home, I tried the altitudes up to about 3,000 AGL and found around
1,500 to 2,000 AGL just had a 3 to 5 knot headwind. This is so low that I
hate to use normal cruise speeds, because they burn so much fuel, so I
slowed down a bit to 155 to 160 knot true for a good overall compromise. So
I was still able to make about 150 to 155 knots ground speed without too big
a fuel burn. This was a big difference from the smooth, cold ride coming
over. Bumping along at low altitude and heat in all the thermals can be
kind of tiring and boring. I find it helps to try to fly more efficiently.
A high performance, ballasted, sailplane can stay aloft and fly fast, on a
good thermal day, merely by changing speed. Most power pilots will try to
hold in altitude in thermals. There is an updraft so they push forward on
the stick to hold altitude. They thereby speed up. In the downdrafts, they
pull back and the speed sags way down. It is a discouraging way to fly, and
it costs speed and efficiency.
If we are bumping along, below VFR cruising altitudes, why not emulate the
sailplane pilot. When a thermal pushes the nose up, don't fight it, let the
nose come up, and maybe help it a little. By slowing down in rising air, we
spend more time in rising air. When the nose goes down and the airplane
sinks, don't fight it, let the nose drop and help it a little. That way we
spend less time in sinking air. Entertaining and practical. Higher speeds
and less stress on the engine.
When down this low you also see the same country in a whole different way.
Going west around Robert Lee, I could see how extremely muddy the Colorado
was. Similar to the other, old time Colorado through the Grand Canyon,
during spring runoff. More evidence of rain in this area. Around home
there were a couple of isolated CB's. Huge precipitation machines, going up
to 45,000 feet, pouring rain on a measly 3 square miles of sand.
I don't know who all contributed to the Scott fly-in this year, but I
appreciate Mike and Bonnie Anderson, and Phil and Anne Gresham very much.
Phil has been having some medical problems, but seemed to be enjoying the
event from a gold cart. The volunteer controller was excellent. It is
apparent that many people helped prepare the field and helped with parking,
cooking and serving. One guy was telling me about all the Chiggers he got,
cutting grass. Thank you also to extraordinary promoter Doug Reeves.
I do hope this fly-in under the trees continues. It is unique.
Do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http:www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
I see some new software on the Dynon site, anybody loaded it? Does it make
the heading work?
They told me I had a July shipping date, are others getting units as
promised or are the shipping dates lagging????
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 23
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| Subject: | So, Mike Stewart, How did you do? |
--> RV-List message posted by: BBreckenridge@att.net
Mike;
Nice mug shot on Page 40 of the July issue of Kitplanes! Any idea what your average
speed was? And, if you aren't too embarrassed to reveal how you placed as a "first-
timer", how was it? and, how did you do?
Bruce Breckenridge
Clackamas ,OR
Message 24
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| Subject: | Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> >
> >Folks, this is why, with an electric oil pressure gauge, I
> consider it
> >mandatory to have a mechanical backup.
>
> or an idiot light. One ounce.
>
> Besides, how often do you look at your oil pressure gauge?
> A burst hose
> or oil cooler could lose enough oil in thirty seconds that
> your actual
> alarm might be a loud clatter.
I agree totally! My mechanical backup is so that I'll know if the
electric one, which is hooked to an alarm, is lying to me or not. If
you know you have no oil pressure, the engine will survive much longer
at idle than at 75% power.
My original question stands: What will you do when your electrical oil
pressure gauge shows zero when you are flying? No one tried to answer
this question yet. Next time you are flying, think about it.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 309 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
I have installed Vans oil pressure gauge and the tachometer. See page 19 of
the catalogue. There is an oil pressure switch available (IE SPDT PRES-15
SW). The switch is installed on the third manifold hole (with the
transducer and the oil pressure hose). It operates completely separate.
When pressure drops below about 15 lbs. the switch triggers a light as well
as a buzzer. I installed this capability for warning of a hot prop
condition - i.e.; master not turned off, and to control the operation of the
hour meter. It would seem to handle the situation in this thread, as well.
Simple and effective.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90% Complete
> >Folks, this is why, with an electric oil pressure gauge, I consider it
> >mandatory to have a mechanical backup.
>
> or an idiot light. One ounce.
>
> Besides, how often do you look at your oil pressure gauge? A burst hose
> or oil cooler could lose enough oil in thirty seconds that your actual
> alarm might be a loud clatter. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
Message 26
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| Subject: | cowl preparation & Superfil |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
I will be using Superfil on the cowl but wondered if acetone is the best agent
to use as a thinner to get a nice consistency for spreading the stuff.
Dave Ford
RV6
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Same thing you need to do when your mechanical shows zero... land!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> > >
> > >Folks, this is why, with an electric oil pressure gauge, I
> > consider it
> > >mandatory to have a mechanical backup.
> >
> > or an idiot light. One ounce.
> >
> > Besides, how often do you look at your oil pressure gauge?
> > A burst hose
> > or oil cooler could lose enough oil in thirty seconds that
> > your actual
> > alarm might be a loud clatter.
>
>
> I agree totally! My mechanical backup is so that I'll know if the
> electric one, which is hooked to an alarm, is lying to me or not. If
> you know you have no oil pressure, the engine will survive much longer
> at idle than at 75% power.
>
> My original question stands: What will you do when your electrical oil
> pressure gauge shows zero when you are flying? No one tried to answer
> this question yet. Next time you are flying, think about it.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 309 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Eng. Instrument redundancy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
All this talk about oil pressure gauges has me wondering about the need
for some redundancy. I have a VM1000 which I am going to install in my
6A and which I think is probably a fine unit. However, if it were to
fail - which it surely will some day - I would lose ALL of my engine
instruments at once; the infamous 'single point failure.' Many of us
are using all-in-one engine instruments like the VM1000. Has any one
out there considered this possibility to be sufficient grounds to
install separate, redundant oil pressure and oil temperature gauges?
The prospect of flying to the next airport without engine
instruments doesn't bother me much, but if I'm far from home, I probably
wouldn't be able to get the VM1000 repaired quickly and wouldn't want to
make a long flight home with no engine instruments at all.
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
I am late July too. Haven't heard anything otherwise....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Rozendaal
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 8:01 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Dynon D-10
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> I see some new software on the Dynon site, anybody loaded it?
> Does it make the heading work?
>
> They told me I had a July shipping date, are others getting
> units as promised or are the shipping dates lagging????
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: cowl preparation & Superfil |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
>
>I will be using Superfil on the cowl but wondered if acetone is the best
>agent to use as a thinner to get a nice consistency for spreading the
>stuff.
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
I dunno Dave, but my recently posted comments about cracks around my
windsheild base fairing leads me to believe it may not be the best filler
for the job. Perhaps I just used too much, too thick, wrong application,
whatever. Just wanted to offer my experience.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
341 hrs.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Eng. Instrument redundancy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Tom:
I said the same thing 10 years ago when I was building. I even had a used
tach that came out of the airplane my engine came out of . I installed ONLY
the RMI microMonitor. September will be 6 years that I have been flying it.
In that time, I have flown over 1,284 hours with it and NO hard failures.
I did a burn in of my RMI instruments in a card board box with a light bulb
as a heater. I also ran both units on the shelf in the hangar for 2 or 3
months to build reliability into the unit.
It is possible to go overboard with redundancy. The cost of redundancy
could easly be put to a hotel room while you wait to get a replacement part
/ unit. By the time you get out of your test phase, you will know if you
have instrumentation problems that need redundancy.
Been across the USA 8 times, across Lake Michigan 3 times, and as far north
as Ft. Yukon Alaska which is north of the Arctic Circle. In other words, I
have been places where you do not always have a place to land or get
replacement parts.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,284 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Eng. Instrument redundancy
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
All this talk about oil pressure gauges has me wondering about the need
for some redundancy. I have a VM1000 which I am going to install in my
6A and which I think is probably a fine unit. However, if it were to
fail - which it surely will some day - I would lose ALL of my engine
instruments at once; the infamous 'single point failure.' Many of us
are using all-in-one engine instruments like the VM1000. Has any one
out there considered this possibility to be sufficient grounds to
install separate, redundant oil pressure and oil temperature gauges?
The prospect of flying to the next airport without engine
instruments doesn't bother me much, but if I'm far from home, I probably
wouldn't be able to get the VM1000 repaired quickly and wouldn't want to
make a long flight home with no engine instruments at all.
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re:Atitude Indicator Interference? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
> I've been taking some flak on another list for making modifications in
> various places to Van's design (i.e. baggage floor compartment)...
Awright Bucko- whadja do to the floor? Better fess up now or we'll
reveal what primer you're usin'...
do NOT archive !!!
pwmark 8-)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Vans Oil Pressure Gauge |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Of course this will only warn you of a "hot prop" if you have 2
electronic ignitions that go off with the master - but NOT if you have
a magneto.
Dave
EAA Technical Counselor
Ernest Kells wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
>
>I have installed Vans oil pressure gauge and the tachometer. See page 19 of
>the catalogue. There is an oil pressure switch available (IE SPDT PRES-15
>SW). The switch is installed on the third manifold hole (with the
>transducer and the oil pressure hose). It operates completely separate.
>When pressure drops below about 15 lbs. the switch triggers a light as well
>as a buzzer. I installed this capability for warning of a hot prop
>condition - i.e.; master not turned off, and to control the operation of the
>hour meter. It would seem to handle the situation in this thread, as well.
>Simple and effective.
>Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> 90% Complete
>
>
>
>>>Folks, this is why, with an electric oil pressure gauge, I consider it
>>>mandatory to have a mechanical backup.
>>>
>>>
>>or an idiot light. One ounce.
>>
>>Besides, how often do you look at your oil pressure gauge? A burst hose
>>or oil cooler could lose enough oil in thirty seconds that your actual
>>alarm might be a loud clatter. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: floor mods (was: Atitude Indicator Interference?) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Awright Bucko- whadja do to the floor? Better fess up now or we'll
> reveal what primer you're usin'...
Let's not go there (prim3r). The floor modification -- well, I decided that
I wanted a hole to drop stuff through, so I made a big trap door. Just
kidding!
I just made a little sub-compartment between two ribs in the right side
baggage floor. 99% of the rationale was to make running wire conduit
through there possible (I didn't realize I should have done it before
riveting the baggage skins down), and 1% of the rationale was to have a
place to put a quart of oil, tools, severed limbs, etc. I've seen it on
other RVs, so it ain't my idea!
http://www.rvproject.com/20030604.html
A guy on the RV7and7A Yahoo group started talking about how I'm inviting the
possibility of "premature cabin collapse" and affecting "the torsional
stability" of the aircraft at high G forces.
This guy has obviously never seen RV-6s with removable panels on the front
deck for avionics access, sub-baggage-floor compartments, etc. I'm
admittedly straying from the design, but we're building experimental
aircraft after all, right?
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: floor mods (was: Atitude Indicator Interference?) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>>Awright Bucko- whadja do to the floor? Better fess up now or we'll
>>reveal what primer you're usin'...
>
>
> Let's not go there (prim3r). The floor modification -- well, I decided that
> I wanted a hole to drop stuff through, so I made a big trap door. Just
> kidding!
>
Great idea Dan and Laird, and ever who else did it. Wish I had thought of it
when I built my RV-6. I would not worry about the structure but if a person was
to worry about that you could rivet in some bulkheads at each end of the cut out
or make some type of shoe box arrangement to fit into the hole that would
support it from the perceived collapse.
Jerry
do not archive
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