Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (Doug Rozendaal)
2. 06:36 AM - apologies for the repost! (Frazier, Vincent A)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (lm4@juno.com)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (Phil Birkelbach)
5. 07:24 AM - EAA Golden West Fly-in and Air Show (Clinchy, Dave)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (John Allen Hurn)
7. 08:30 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (John Helms)
8. 08:50 AM - EAA (Wheeler North)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com)
10. 09:24 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (James E. Clark)
11. 09:29 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (Scott Brumbelow)
12. 10:19 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (Robert Miller)
13. 10:28 AM - Camlock question (Doug Weiler)
14. 11:14 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (John Helms)
15. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: CD player..Kinda RV related (Jeff Dowling)
16. 11:23 AM - Re: Recommended RV camping gear? (Jeff Dowling)
17. 11:30 AM - Re: Re: CD player..Kinda RV related (Robert Miller)
18. 11:30 AM - Camlock installation (Scott Bilinski)
19. 11:38 AM - Re: Camlock question (Randy Lervold)
20. 11:41 AM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new (Scott Bilinski)
21. 12:21 PM - Saving a Signature for your Email Posts (Ernest Kells)
22. 12:22 PM - Was thoughts... now evolving fly-ins (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
23. 12:52 PM - Dynon ship update (Dana Overall)
24. 01:46 PM - Re: EAA (Cy Galley)
25. 01:50 PM - Re: Camlock installation (Terry Watson)
26. 02:15 PM - Re: Recommended RV camping gear? (Cy Galley)
27. 02:21 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (BrownTool@aol.com)
28. 02:30 PM - Re: Camlock installation (Scott Brumbelow)
29. 03:06 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (Scott Bilinski)
30. 03:12 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (Scott Bilinski)
31. 04:00 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (Terry Watson)
32. 04:19 PM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (Wayne Reese)
33. 04:31 PM - Re: Camlock installation (Cy Galley)
34. 05:23 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (kempthornes)
35. 05:34 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (C J Heitman)
36. 05:45 PM - New web group for San Francisco Bay Area Rvators (Kevin Hester)
37. 05:46 PM - Dynon EFIS questions (Kevin Horton)
38. 06:00 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (John Starn)
39. 06:02 PM - Graphics (John Mcmahon)
40. 06:23 PM - State park flyins (was:Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new (Charlie & Tupper England)
41. 06:28 PM - Re: Dynon EFIS questions (Larry Bowen)
42. 06:30 PM - Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization (Mike Mckenna)
43. 06:44 PM - Re: New web group for San Francisco Bay Area Rvators (RV6 Flyer)
44. 07:13 PM - Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!! (Dana Overall)
45. 07:16 PM - Re: Camlock installation - (Sam Buchanan)
46. 07:48 PM - Re: Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!! (Kyle Boatright)
47. 07:49 PM - Re: Graphics (JusCash@aol.com)
48. 07:53 PM - Re: AFP Boost Pump and Fuel Lines in RV-6 (emrath)
49. 07:58 PM - Re: Dynon EFIS questions (Steve J Hurlbut)
50. 08:02 PM - Re: Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!! (Steve J Hurlbut)
51. 08:02 PM - Adhesive for non-structural metal-to-metal (j1j2h3@juno.com)
52. 08:30 PM - Re: Graphics (Dr. Leathers)
53. 09:02 PM - Re: Dynon EFIS questions (Jim Jewell)
54. 09:49 PM - Re: Graphics ()
55. 10:10 PM - Re: Graphics (James E. Clark)
56. 10:15 PM - No license, no experience, building an RV-8 (Brett Morawski)
57. 11:18 PM - Re: No license, no experience, building an RV-8 (John Starn)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
We are a pretty small constitiuency fighting a pretty big Goverment, and a
whole bunch of soccer moms. If we want to keep flying the way we do now, we
need some pretty big, politically powerful, organizations working for us.
Every one is welcome to join any club you want, go sit under a the wing of
your airplane in a pasture, away from the non-flying public, and tell each
other that you are a great pilots or builders you are. But DO NOT stop
supporting the political (and commercial) machines, AOPA and EAA that are
fighting for us in Washington and in the public eye.
I have some beefs with EAA, and I make them known in the right circles, (I
am pretty sure no one cares) but they do a great job in many areas. Join
SAA if you like, that is great, but for a different purpose. All of us
should continue to support EAA and AOPA until SAA or another group has a
political machine to fight for us. I don't see that happening anytime
soon.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | apologies for the repost! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
Guys,
Sorry about reposting Monday's RV-list. My "send" button and the pull down window
I was trying to access were too close together! I tried to recall the email...
but no luck. I sure hope it had a do not archive string in it somewhere.
Vince
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
Tom,
I've been thinking about this for years. I have been to
every Osh since 76 and have watched the metamorphesis
of EAA. I sincerely believe that this animal is out of control
and that nothing can be done to change it. It began feeding
on itself when they let Pepsi & McDonald's in.
While Osh probably can't be saved I believe there is
a way we can save ourselves. There is a booth at Osh run by
the Chamber of commerce, I think, and in this booth are two
maps. One of the U.S. and one of the world. The people there
want you to stick a pin in the map representing your home
town. If some of us could get copies of the U.S. map we could
determine where the concentrations of pilots are. Naturally
there will be more pilots on the left coast but where ever they
are is the place to start a grass roots Air Show. Now I have to
believe, though I could be wrong, that Paul Poberesney is as
tired of the money grubbing as we are and that he could be
invaluable in helping us set up a number of gatherings throuout
the U.S. I would think that these organizations could affiliate
or associate with each other, in the name of politics,
ei advancement of G.A., without coming under one single
board of dictators. What do you think ?
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
lm4@juno.com
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:37:06 -0700 "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo@verizon.net>
LIVE LARGE. At the local level, I am a chapter president. The
chapter members volunteer their time, efforts, and money and
receive nothing in return except the knowledge that we worked
hard to support general aviation. I want the EAA to be a
volunteer organization, where my dues are used to support
general aviation, and not pay large salaries, build large and
fancy offices, etc, etc.
I only have so many dollars I can put into aviation.
I cant just throw money at both organizations. I have to pick one.
I will currently stay with the EAA.
However, I have seen a couple of emails on this RV-List
that have wanted to start another organization. I will be
watching as I am not happy with my current choices. Sorry, I
cant help with money at this time but let me know if I can help
in another way.
Tom Gummo
President EAA Chapter 768
Apple Valley, CA
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Here here Doug. Well Said. If the last two years have taught us nothing
else they should have taught us that the non-flying public and the
governement pencil pushers have no clue about what general aviation is, and
like anything else in life people tend to fear things that they don't
understand, and the more they fear us the more likely they are to erase our
freedom to fly.
If the AOPA and the EAA did nothing else besides the lobby for us I would
happily send my money. I hear so many people say they don't want to join
the AOPA because the magazine is full of airplanes that they can't afford.
WHO CARES, the magazine is a perk the reason that we should be sending them
our money is because they are fighting hard for us all over the country.
Does the EAA do the same, yes. Maybe not with the same veracity but they
are working for us behind the scenes and the EAA tends to focus more on
issues relating to smaller home built airplanes.
If my dues are making Tom P. rich then by all means. That is what is
supposed to happen to a person that runs a huge organization. You get what
you pay for. If you think that Tom is doing a bad job then go to Oshkosh
and vote for somebody else, or send your proxy with a friend to vote for
someone else. If he is doing a good job then pay him. I am sure that we
could get somebody that would be willing to run the organization for
$10/hour at any McDonalds but... Money is incentive, and I personally think
that Tom is doing a fine job. He's not doing quite the job that Phil Boyer
is doing but our rights as homebuilders are not being attacked nearly the
way our airports and airspace are being attacked. If we are not paying Phil
Boyer a LOT of money then we aren't paying him enough, and should give him a
raise.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
EAA - 653540
AOPA - 04257858
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> We are a pretty small constitiuency fighting a pretty big Goverment, and a
> whole bunch of soccer moms. If we want to keep flying the way we do now,
we
> need some pretty big, politically powerful, organizations working for us.
> Every one is welcome to join any club you want, go sit under a the wing
of
> your airplane in a pasture, away from the non-flying public, and tell each
> other that you are a great pilots or builders you are. But DO NOT stop
> supporting the political (and commercial) machines, AOPA and EAA that are
> fighting for us in Washington and in the public eye.
>
> I have some beefs with EAA, and I make them known in the right circles, (I
> am pretty sure no one cares) but they do a great job in many areas. Join
> SAA if you like, that is great, but for a different purpose. All of us
> should continue to support EAA and AOPA until SAA or another group has a
> political machine to fight for us. I don't see that happening anytime
> soon.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | EAA Golden West Fly-in and Air Show |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Clinchy, Dave" <clinchd@losrios.edu>
Listers:
Any of you planning on attending the Golden West Fly-in at Marysville Ca
on June 20-22? I see on their website,
http://www.goldenwestflyin.org/gwaahome.shtml, that there will be a
workshop on building a XP-360 engine, presented by Eagle Aviation. Any
one know any thing about Eagle aviation or about this workshop?
Dave Clinchy
7 Fuse
Sacramento, Ca
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Allen Hurn" <hurns-ac@attbi.com>
Sounds like the right idea. Can you just see some National State Park, with
an old grass strip in the USA with no commercial food venders and ever one
tail gating a big two day lunch. Wow! Now that would be like the old wagon
train days only with airplanes. We all chip in to pay the State Park not
some one else.
Johnny wrote.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I know about and recently read some accounts of the Central TX fly-in, and
have been following the posts here. I think those types of get togethers
are great, but see a problem with them too.
Of course, the worst possible situation is that someone would get killed at
the event and their survivors sue the organizers and shuts the whole thing
down because there was no event insurance. It's never quite as simple as it
sounds.
And in anticipation of the flames, please don't be mad at insurance
companies or agents such as myself... take it out on the ambulance chasing
lawyers. Insurance makes stuff like what you're talking about possible in
the litigious society we have today.
There are thousands of things like having to pay for insurance which (IMHO)
have caused the EAA to become the bureaucratic megalith that it is today.
And those things have caused the cost to attend to rise, and the necessity
of vendors. And when you attract enough people, you're going to attract
folks like Van's Aircraft, Inc, and others who'll want to set up booths.
You'll ask a modest charge for him to attend to cover costs.
It is creep. Next thing you know you'll be holding workshops and seminars.
Another good example of the creep, with no food vendors, people who don't
want to cook for themselves will urge the organizers to contract with a
local caterer the next year. They'll do that, and it'll be great. Then
people will complain that it's a monopoly and they'll theorize that
somebody's probably getting a kickback, so you'll invite 3
restaurants/caterers the next year. and on it goes until you have the same
thing as Oshkosh.
I think you get my point, but for those of you who don't know the history of
it, ask about how Sun'n'Fun started. What you're describing, and the things
we are talking about have all been done before, and not all that long ago.
Please do not archive.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
Pleasure and Business Branch
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allen Hurn" <hurns-ac@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Allen Hurn" <hurns-ac@attbi.com>
Sounds like the right idea. Can you just see some National State Park, with
an old grass strip in the USA with no commercial food venders and ever one
tail gating a big two day lunch. Wow! Now that would be like the old wagon
train days only with airplanes. We all chip in to pay the State Park not
some one else.
Johnny wrote.
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
The one thing OSH does for me is give me a place to volunteer where I get to
see every type of airplane land and takeoff, and get to write the whole trip
off as its not only volunteer wrok, but I also get credit for it in my
professional development plan.
;{)
If they can work the system, I can work the system.
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
06/11/2003 10:37:36 AM
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
Okay here are my latest thoughts.
1. I beleive EAA should be around. we do need the lobbying protectection it
provides along with the AOPA.
2. I would like to see changes made that bring it back to basics and away
from the commercialism.
3. new programs instituted that help it's members. One program I have been
toying with is an engine program that the biz jets currently have and that
is you pay a buy in fee and hourly fee for times flown. When your engine
has a problem or reaches TBO you are aided with repairs and overhaul costs
at a reduced rate or covered 100% based on the fee you choose.
4. I believe we need the EAA hoever I also believe there is more than
enough room to grow a new grass roots club where the members are owners and
have a direct say as to how the club operates, not a proxy vote. I believe
in capitilism, I would like to become wealthy doing what I love to do but
how much is enough?
I have plenty of ideas and thoughts and could go on and on. However after
reading all of your post's both public and private I see I am not the only
one who feels the way I do.
I would like to get together and discuss these pertinent issues with all
who have issues face to face. Since that is not possible Please continue to
e-mail me with your ideas and thougths.
regards
Glenn Williams
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Phil, Doug, Gary ... "spot on!"
Having a small gathering of (custom built) planes is not the only (or major)
thing the org is about these days. And I for one am glad that is the case.
There is power in numbers. Imagine what would happen if the Mayor of
*Oshkosh* decided to plow up the runway in the middle of the night! Forget
about us pilots complaining (not really :-) ), just imagine the hundred
thousand LOCAL, voting, non-flyers who would be joining Ford and John Deere
in chorus.
These orgs (EAA and AOPA) serve a much larger purpose and I too think they
are doing a fine job at that. Because of the size of membership **and** the
ability to pull of things like "AirVenture", the org has impact with other
groups like the FAA and thereby have the ability to do good for us all. So
if it takes a big commercial event to help them be able to influence on our
behalf .. then great. There are a lot of other airports and fly-ins I can
attend at other times of the year.
Also, I think that EAA and AOPA are a complementary pair. They focus on
different but important things that affect us all.
That being said, I will repeat, it looks like Paul P is working on the
"small gathering of friends" notion and I think that it too will be
something nice to attend.
James
Do Not Archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Birkelbach
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:12 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new
> organization
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> Here here Doug. Well Said. If the last two years have taught us nothing
> else they should have taught us that the non-flying public and the
> governement pencil pushers have no clue about what general
> aviation is, and
> like anything else in life people tend to fear things that they don't
> understand, and the more they fear us the more likely they are to
> erase our
> freedom to fly.
>
> If the AOPA and the EAA did nothing else besides the lobby for us I would
> happily send my money. I hear so many people say they don't want to join
> the AOPA because the magazine is full of airplanes that they can't afford.
> WHO CARES, the magazine is a perk the reason that we should be
> sending them
> our money is because they are fighting hard for us all over the country.
> Does the EAA do the same, yes. Maybe not with the same veracity but they
> are working for us behind the scenes and the EAA tends to focus more on
> issues relating to smaller home built airplanes.
>
> If my dues are making Tom P. rich then by all means. That is what is
> supposed to happen to a person that runs a huge organization.
> You get what
> you pay for. If you think that Tom is doing a bad job then go to Oshkosh
> and vote for somebody else, or send your proxy with a friend to vote for
> someone else. If he is doing a good job then pay him. I am sure that we
> could get somebody that would be willing to run the organization for
> $10/hour at any McDonalds but... Money is incentive, and I
> personally think
> that Tom is doing a fine job. He's not doing quite the job that
> Phil Boyer
> is doing but our rights as homebuilders are not being attacked nearly the
> way our airports and airspace are being attacked. If we are not
> paying Phil
> Boyer a LOT of money then we aren't paying him enough, and should
> give him a
> raise.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> EAA - 653540
> AOPA - 04257858
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new
> organization
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
> >
> > We are a pretty small constitiuency fighting a pretty big
> Goverment, and a
> > whole bunch of soccer moms. If we want to keep flying the way
> we do now,
> we
> > need some pretty big, politically powerful, organizations
> working for us.
> > Every one is welcome to join any club you want, go sit under a the wing
> of
> > your airplane in a pasture, away from the non-flying public,
> and tell each
> > other that you are a great pilots or builders you are. But DO NOT stop
> > supporting the political (and commercial) machines, AOPA and
> EAA that are
> > fighting for us in Washington and in the public eye.
> >
> > I have some beefs with EAA, and I make them known in the right
> circles, (I
> > am pretty sure no one cares) but they do a great job in many
> areas. Join
> > SAA if you like, that is great, but for a different purpose. All of us
> > should continue to support EAA and AOPA until SAA or another group has a
> > political machine to fight for us. I don't see that happening anytime
> > soon.
> >
> > Tailwinds,
> > Doug Rozendaal
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
Doug is right on the money. I have been a member of EAA and AOPA for years: EAA
because of the homebuilding side and "Sport Aviation"; AOPA because of my
perception of their lobbying abilities. After 9/11, my wife finally understood
why I send my check to AOPA every year for a magazine I rarely read (like many
others on this list, I do not care about the $250,000+ aircraft). However, after
seeing how Boyer (and crew) responded post 9/11 - to congress, to the media
outlets, etc. - AOPA likely gained my support for life.
My PERCEPTION is that EAA tries really hard to be as effective as AOPA in such
lobbying, but they are not even close. 9/11 only clarified the need to have a
strong voice to represent my interests, and $40 a year is a small price to pay
AOPA for that voice.
The point here is that we all need that voice (whether it is AOPA or whatever).
While I too have not been as happy with the increased commercialization of
Oshkosh every year, fun fly-ins are not the primary reason I send such
organizations my dues.
Doug is right. Regardless of what other organizations may be developed, please
do not stop supporting the ones that give us our only voice to the politicians
and the general public. You cannot simply put the blinders on when it comes to
public perception of GA. If there is no voice to protect it, it WILL grow
sour...
Scott in MEM
do not archive
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> We are a pretty small constitiuency fighting a pretty big Goverment, and a
> whole bunch of soccer moms. If we want to keep flying the way we do now, we
> need some pretty big, politically powerful, organizations working for us.
> Every one is welcome to join any club you want, go sit under a the wing of
> your airplane in a pasture, away from the non-flying public, and tell each
> other that you are a great pilots or builders you are. But DO NOT stop
> supporting the political (and commercial) machines, AOPA and EAA that are
> fighting for us in Washington and in the public eye.
>
> I have some beefs with EAA, and I make them known in the right circles, (I
> am pretty sure no one cares) but they do a great job in many areas. Join
> SAA if you like, that is great, but for a different purpose. All of us
> should continue to support EAA and AOPA until SAA or another group has a
> political machine to fight for us. I don't see that happening anytime
> soon.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
> do not archive
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
To claim... even for a moment ... that it is only the lawyers that have caused
so much of our problems in these areas is misleading, at the least.
I can tell you from much experience, over many years, that insurance companies
and the lawyers work together all the time to the financial benefit of each,
and to the harm of the poor person who has over years paid his money in good
faith.
It's a truly shameful racket.
Go ahead. Flame me. But I assure you, I speak from much experience and speak
only the truth here.
I've suggested before that you form a Yahoo group dedicated to avaition
insurance issues.
Those who wish, will subscribe to that group.
The rest of us can be spared your efforts, overt or covert, to sell insurance
to all of us.
Robert E. Miller, M.D.
And I know, you will find dishonest people in any profession... certainly
including doctors.
But that doesn't begin to tell the story of the racket that exists between
lawyers and the multibillion dollar insurance companies.
John Helms wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> And in anticipation of the flames, please don't be mad at insurance
> companies or agents such as myself... take it out on the ambulance chasing
> lawyers. Insurance makes stuff like what you're talking about possible in
> the litigious society we have today.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Camlock question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
Greetings all:
I was wondering if anyone on the list has had any long term experience with
Camlocs for their cowling installation. Several local folks have used them
with good success but I was curious as to any long term issues. I used
Camloc 2700's in my RV-4 installation (which is about to fly) installed as
per Skybolt Fasteners instructions.
Just curious,
Doug Weiler
N722DW, RV-4 awaiting FAA inspection
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I don't sell Commercial insurance. And I think you're thinking of Health
Insurance companies (which from your profession I would gather is your area
of expertise.)
I merely intended to point out that the 'gatherings' people are doing, or
talking about forming can have concerns beyond peoples well intentioned
goals. Sun and Fun is the most recent that I can think of. Oshkosh is
actually another example.
They started out as exactly the same kind of thing as what people are
discussing here and actually doing (as in the case of the Central TX
fly-in). SnF and Oshkosh have naturally evolved into what they are today.
I think that it would be naive to think that gathering people together today
would be any different in how the gathering evolved for a variety of reasons
more vast than those I mentioned in my earlier post.
My area of expertise happens to be insurance. I am vaguely (sp?)familiar
with commercial insurance as my company has offices that do that and I
originally started down that path before RV's and other light aircraft
presented an opportunity for me.
do not archive
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Miller" <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
To claim... even for a moment ... that it is only the lawyers that have
caused
so much of our problems in these areas is misleading, at the least.
I can tell you from much experience, over many years, that insurance
companies
and the lawyers work together all the time to the financial benefit of each,
and to the harm of the poor person who has over years paid his money in good
faith.
It's a truly shameful racket.
Go ahead. Flame me. But I assure you, I speak from much experience and
speak
only the truth here.
I've suggested before that you form a Yahoo group dedicated to avaition
insurance issues.
Those who wish, will subscribe to that group.
The rest of us can be spared your efforts, overt or covert, to sell
insurance
to all of us.
Robert E. Miller, M.D.
And I know, you will find dishonest people in any profession... certainly
including doctors.
But that doesn't begin to tell the story of the racket that exists between
lawyers and the multibillion dollar insurance companies.
John Helms wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> And in anticipation of the flames, please don't be mad at insurance
> companies or agents such as myself... take it out on the ambulance
chasing
> lawyers. Insurance makes stuff like what you're talking about possible in
> the litigious society we have today.
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: CD player..Kinda RV related |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Will the ipod talk to an IBM machine?
Not to pleased with my archos.
Jeff Dowling
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: CD player..Kinda RV related
> --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
>
> I've been flying my RV with my iPod for a year and a half. I love
> it. Matter of fact, I just upgraded to the new 15gig as a present to
> myself. One of the best gadgets I own.
>
> There's a picture of my installation of my iPod at the bottom of the page
at:
> http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/429050/guest.phtml
>
> Laird
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I have a Sony car cd player in mounted in the panel of my RV-6, and
> >wouldn't recommend going that route. It skips when you put any
> >g-load on the airplane.
> >
> >Recently I bought a 15gb Apple iPod and I think it is the best thing
> >since sliced bread. I've gotten very attached to it. I have about
> >60 cd's loaded on it right now and am barely using over 3 gb out of
> >the 15 available at 192kbs vbr encoding rate which is very close to
> >cd quality (my ears can't tell the difference, but at 128kbs I can).
> >It doesn't skip even when you shake it (it has a tiny hard drive
> >inside) and I wired up a jack in the panel to plug it in. At first
> >my wife told me I was crazy for buying what amounted to a $400
> >walkman and I had a case of sticker shock initially but that quickly
> >wore off. They are worth the $$ if you like your music. The
> >software that comes with the iPod (for windows) is not very good, I
> >use some shareware software to sync the iPod with my pc, and no
> >commercially-available mp3 encoder can touch eac/lame which is a
> >combination of freeware mp3 encoding programs.
> >
> >Bob Japundza
> >RV-6 flying 450hrs, F1 under const.
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Recommended RV camping gear? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Just a very small note for a small item(s). If you're used to sleeping in a
dark and quiet place, you may consider 2 essential items. Earplugs and
eyeshield. The sun comes up earlier when you're in a tent, ecspecially when
you accidentally hangar fly a little too late the night before :)
Jeff Dowling
6a
ps does anyone know how to save a signature block using windows and outlook
express?
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Recommended RV camping gear?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham"
<crowbotham@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Bill,
>
> We puchased a Serria Designs Clip 3 tent (although it suppose to be for 3
> it's really a 2 peron tent. The tent is great high quality and I expect it
> to last. The good news ot weiths in at 5.5 lbs and is baged in a cylinder
> shape about 1' long. The ouch is it's $175 on the net (but that is not bad
> for a quality tent.
>
> You may want to rent a good tent and try camping - I enjoyed it before you
> take the plung.
>
> Chuck Rowbotham
> RV-8A
>
> >From: SportAV8R@aol.com
> >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: Recommended RV camping gear?
> >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:51:30 EDT
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
> >
> >I think my wife and I are nearing the point of getting adventurous in our
> >old
> >age and thinking about how cool it might be to actually travel a bit in
our
> >RV to places where a rental car was not the first necessity upon arrival.
> >Camping with the plane sounds like a way to recover some of our lost
> >youthfulness... but so much has changed since we camped as kids or as
young
> >parents in the
> >80's. Would those of you who are now adventuring in this way give us a
> >heads
> >up on some of the new hi-tech gear we should be shopping for? Obviously
it
> >has to be able to fit in a -6A, so the lighter and smaller, the better.
We
> >are
> >also into comfort, so I would especially cherish any advice on good
> >sleeping
> >gear and shelter.
> >
> >Bill B
> >at almost 47, not quite the Tom Sawyer / Huck Finn type I once was...
> >
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: CD player..Kinda RV related |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
yes.
Jeff Dowling wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
>
> Will the ipod talk to an IBM machine?
>
> Not to pleased with my archos.
>
> Jeff Dowling
>
> Do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: CD player..Kinda RV related
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
> >
> > I've been flying my RV with my iPod for a year and a half. I love
> > it. Matter of fact, I just upgraded to the new 15gig as a present to
> > myself. One of the best gadgets I own.
> >
> > There's a picture of my installation of my iPod at the bottom of the page
> at:
> > http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/429050/guest.phtml
> >
> > Laird
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >I have a Sony car cd player in mounted in the panel of my RV-6, and
> > >wouldn't recommend going that route. It skips when you put any
> > >g-load on the airplane.
> > >
> > >Recently I bought a 15gb Apple iPod and I think it is the best thing
> > >since sliced bread. I've gotten very attached to it. I have about
> > >60 cd's loaded on it right now and am barely using over 3 gb out of
> > >the 15 available at 192kbs vbr encoding rate which is very close to
> > >cd quality (my ears can't tell the difference, but at 128kbs I can).
> > >It doesn't skip even when you shake it (it has a tiny hard drive
> > >inside) and I wired up a jack in the panel to plug it in. At first
> > >my wife told me I was crazy for buying what amounted to a $400
> > >walkman and I had a case of sticker shock initially but that quickly
> > >wore off. They are worth the $$ if you like your music. The
> > >software that comes with the iPod (for windows) is not very good, I
> > >use some shareware software to sync the iPod with my pc, and no
> > >commercially-available mp3 encoder can touch eac/lame which is a
> > >combination of freeware mp3 encoding programs.
> > >
> > >Bob Japundza
> > >RV-6 flying 450hrs, F1 under const.
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > >Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Camlock installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
How are regular camlocks held in place? I have heard there is a expensive
tool used to install them but I have looked at the camlock and can see no
way to do anything to them with a tool that will make them stay in place.
At 12:25 PM 6/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
>Greetings all:
>
>I was wondering if anyone on the list has had any long term experience with
>Camlocs for their cowling installation. Several local folks have used them
>with good success but I was curious as to any long term issues. I used
>Camloc 2700's in my RV-4 installation (which is about to fly) installed as
>per Skybolt Fasteners instructions.
>
>Just curious,
>
>Doug Weiler
>N722DW, RV-4 awaiting FAA inspection
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Camlock question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Doug, I've had the Skybolt version on my entire firewall perimeter for 310
hours, no problem at all. I love 'em. Good luck with the inspection and
getting airborne!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 310 hrs
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-List: Camlock question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> Greetings all:
>
> I was wondering if anyone on the list has had any long term experience
with
> Camlocs for their cowling installation. Several local folks have used
them
> with good success but I was curious as to any long term issues. I used
> Camloc 2700's in my RV-4 installation (which is about to fly) installed as
> per Skybolt Fasteners instructions.
>
> Just curious,
>
> Doug Weiler
> N722DW, RV-4 awaiting FAA inspection
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new |
organization
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
For those who want to give funds to the AOPA for gov relations, see below.
Thank you for contacting AOPA. You may make a donation to AOPA's Air
Safety Foundation, or Political Action Committee at any time. We are not
currently participating in any donation drives. Another option for you
would be signing up with a Family Membership. Basically you would pay
$19.00 and you would be considered a full member, but you would not receive
the magazine. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.
At 12:21 PM 6/11/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
>
>Phil, Doug, Gary ... "spot on!"
>
>Having a small gathering of (custom built) planes is not the only (or major)
>thing the org is about these days. And I for one am glad that is the case.
>
>There is power in numbers. Imagine what would happen if the Mayor of
>*Oshkosh* decided to plow up the runway in the middle of the night! Forget
>about us pilots complaining (not really :-) ), just imagine the hundred
>thousand LOCAL, voting, non-flyers who would be joining Ford and John Deere
>in chorus.
>
>These orgs (EAA and AOPA) serve a much larger purpose and I too think they
>are doing a fine job at that. Because of the size of membership **and** the
>ability to pull of things like "AirVenture", the org has impact with other
>groups like the FAA and thereby have the ability to do good for us all. So
>if it takes a big commercial event to help them be able to influence on our
>behalf .. then great. There are a lot of other airports and fly-ins I can
>attend at other times of the year.
>
>Also, I think that EAA and AOPA are a complementary pair. They focus on
>different but important things that affect us all.
>
>
>That being said, I will repeat, it looks like Paul P is working on the
>"small gathering of friends" notion and I think that it too will be
>something nice to attend.
>
>
>James
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Birkelbach
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:12 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new
>> organization
>>
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
>>
>> Here here Doug. Well Said. If the last two years have taught us nothing
>> else they should have taught us that the non-flying public and the
>> governement pencil pushers have no clue about what general
>> aviation is, and
>> like anything else in life people tend to fear things that they don't
>> understand, and the more they fear us the more likely they are to
>> erase our
>> freedom to fly.
>>
>> If the AOPA and the EAA did nothing else besides the lobby for us I would
>> happily send my money. I hear so many people say they don't want to join
>> the AOPA because the magazine is full of airplanes that they can't afford.
>> WHO CARES, the magazine is a perk the reason that we should be
>> sending them
>> our money is because they are fighting hard for us all over the country.
>> Does the EAA do the same, yes. Maybe not with the same veracity but they
>> are working for us behind the scenes and the EAA tends to focus more on
>> issues relating to smaller home built airplanes.
>>
>> If my dues are making Tom P. rich then by all means. That is what is
>> supposed to happen to a person that runs a huge organization.
>> You get what
>> you pay for. If you think that Tom is doing a bad job then go to Oshkosh
>> and vote for somebody else, or send your proxy with a friend to vote for
>> someone else. If he is doing a good job then pay him. I am sure that we
>> could get somebody that would be willing to run the organization for
>> $10/hour at any McDonalds but... Money is incentive, and I
>> personally think
>> that Tom is doing a fine job. He's not doing quite the job that
>> Phil Boyer
>> is doing but our rights as homebuilders are not being attacked nearly the
>> way our airports and airspace are being attacked. If we are not
>> paying Phil
>> Boyer a LOT of money then we aren't paying him enough, and should
>> give him a
>> raise.
>>
>> Godspeed,
>>
>> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
>> EAA - 653540
>> AOPA - 04257858
>> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
>> http://www.myrv7.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new
>> organization
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>> >
>> > We are a pretty small constitiuency fighting a pretty big
>> Goverment, and a
>> > whole bunch of soccer moms. If we want to keep flying the way
>> we do now,
>> we
>> > need some pretty big, politically powerful, organizations
>> working for us.
>> > Every one is welcome to join any club you want, go sit under a the wing
>> of
>> > your airplane in a pasture, away from the non-flying public,
>> and tell each
>> > other that you are a great pilots or builders you are. But DO NOT stop
>> > supporting the political (and commercial) machines, AOPA and
>> EAA that are
>> > fighting for us in Washington and in the public eye.
>> >
>> > I have some beefs with EAA, and I make them known in the right
>> circles, (I
>> > am pretty sure no one cares) but they do a great job in many
>> areas. Join
>> > SAA if you like, that is great, but for a different purpose. All of us
>> > should continue to support EAA and AOPA until SAA or another group has a
>> > political machine to fight for us. I don't see that happening anytime
>> > soon.
>> >
>> > Tailwinds,
>> > Doug Rozendaal
>> >
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 21
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| Subject: | Saving a Signature for your Email Posts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
> Jeff Dowling 6a
> ps does anyone know how to save a signature block using windows and
outlook
> express?
To have a signature at the end of your email message (similar to the one
below) just do the following;
From Outlook (when listing all the messages - not when you have opened one
of them):
Select TOOLS Menu.
Select OPTIONS.
Select SIGNATURES
fill in your message, click whether you want it automatically on every
message, etc.
Click OK
You're done.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90% Complete - Fairings
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Was thoughts... now evolving fly-ins |
ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_IN_WHITELIST
autolearn=ham version=2.53
--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
JT,
Keep the informative stuff coming.
Mike Stewart
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: John Helms [mailto:jhelms@i1.net]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I don't sell Commercial insurance. And I think you're thinking of Health
Insurance companies (which from your profession I would gather is your area
of expertise.)
I merely intended to point out that the 'gatherings' people are doing, or
talking about forming can have concerns beyond peoples well intentioned
goals. Sun and Fun is the most recent that I can think of. Oshkosh is
actually another example.
They started out as exactly the same kind of thing as what people are
discussing here and actually doing (as in the case of the Central TX
fly-in). SnF and Oshkosh have naturally evolved into what they are today.
I think that it would be naive to think that gathering people together today
would be any different in how the gathering evolved for a variety of reasons
more vast than those I mentioned in my earlier post.
My area of expertise happens to be insurance. I am vaguely (sp?)familiar
with commercial insurance as my company has offices that do that and I
originally started down that path before RV's and other light aircraft
presented an opportunity for me.
do not archive
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Miller" <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Miller <rmiller3@earthlink.net>
To claim... even for a moment ... that it is only the lawyers that have
caused
so much of our problems in these areas is misleading, at the least.
I can tell you from much experience, over many years, that insurance
companies
and the lawyers work together all the time to the financial benefit of each,
and to the harm of the poor person who has over years paid his money in good
faith.
It's a truly shameful racket.
Go ahead. Flame me. But I assure you, I speak from much experience and
speak
only the truth here.
I've suggested before that you form a Yahoo group dedicated to avaition
insurance issues.
Those who wish, will subscribe to that group.
The rest of us can be spared your efforts, overt or covert, to sell
insurance
to all of us.
Robert E. Miller, M.D.
And I know, you will find dishonest people in any profession... certainly
including doctors.
But that doesn't begin to tell the story of the racket that exists between
lawyers and the multibillion dollar insurance companies.
John Helms wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> And in anticipation of the flames, please don't be mad at insurance
> companies or agents such as myself... take it out on the ambulance
chasing
> lawyers. Insurance makes stuff like what you're talking about possible in
> the litigious society we have today.
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Dynon ship update |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
I just ordered my Dynon, #345. He told be they are up to about 150 on the
list now. Their stated goal is 15 per week but have hit 20 per week the
last couple weeks. I was told they are looking at 30 per week as a goal but
to not hold them to that. Look at you number and do the math.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Plus you can write the expenses off your income tax.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: EAA
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> The one thing OSH does for me is give me a place to volunteer where I get
to
> see every type of airplane land and takeoff, and get to write the whole
trip
> off as its not only volunteer wrok, but I also get credit for it in my
> professional development plan.
>
> ;{)
>
> If they can work the system, I can work the system.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Camlock installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I bought the kit from Skybolt but haven't installed it yet. If I recall
correctly, the expensive tool to install them with was a $40 version of a
modified $3.00 pair of pliers. I will assume it works, but it sure didn't
look like a $40 tool to me.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
How are regular camlocks held in place? I have heard there is a expensive
tool used to install them but I have looked at the camlock and can see no
way to do anything to them with a tool that will make them stay in place.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended RV camping gear? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Go to options and select the signature tab. There is a box to type in the
signature. if you high light the signature name you can re-name it and can
have several different signature.
Cy Galley - MVR-AACA www.aaca.org/mvr
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Cy Galley - Webmaster www.qcbc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Recommended RV camping gear?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
>
> Just a very small note for a small item(s). If you're used to sleeping in
a
> dark and quiet place, you may consider 2 essential items. Earplugs and
> eyeshield. The sun comes up earlier when you're in a tent, ecspecially
when
> you accidentally hangar fly a little too late the night before :)
>
> Jeff Dowling
> 6a
>
> ps does anyone know how to save a signature block using windows and
outlook
> express?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charles Rowbotham <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Recommended RV camping gear?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham"
> <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > We puchased a Serria Designs Clip 3 tent (although it suppose to be for
3
> > it's really a 2 peron tent. The tent is great high quality and I expect
it
> > to last. The good news ot weiths in at 5.5 lbs and is baged in a
cylinder
> > shape about 1' long. The ouch is it's $175 on the net (but that is not
bad
> > for a quality tent.
> >
> > You may want to rent a good tent and try camping - I enjoyed it before
you
> > take the plung.
> >
> > Chuck Rowbotham
> > RV-8A
> >
> > >From: SportAV8R@aol.com
> > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV-List: Recommended RV camping gear?
> > >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:51:30 EDT
> > >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
> > >
> > >I think my wife and I are nearing the point of getting adventurous in
our
> > >old
> > >age and thinking about how cool it might be to actually travel a bit in
> our
> > >RV to places where a rental car was not the first necessity upon
arrival.
> > >Camping with the plane sounds like a way to recover some of our lost
> > >youthfulness... but so much has changed since we camped as kids or as
> young
> > >parents in the
> > >80's. Would those of you who are now adventuring in this way give us a
> > >heads
> > >up on some of the new hi-tech gear we should be shopping for?
Obviously
> it
> > >has to be able to fit in a -6A, so the lighter and smaller, the better.
> We
> > >are
> > >also into comfort, so I would especially cherish any advice on good
> > >sleeping
> > >gear and shelter.
> > >
> > >Bill B
> > >at almost 47, not quite the Tom Sawyer / Huck Finn type I once was...
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
In a message dated 6/11/2003 3:56:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
terry@tcwatson.com writes:
> I bought the kit from Skybolt but haven't installed it yet. If I recall
> correctly, the expensive tool to install them with was a $40 version of a
> modified $3.00 pair of pliers. I will assume it works, but it sure didn't
> look like a $40 tool to me.
>
My observations as an aircraft tool supplier:
The proper tool used to install Camlocs is a pair of Camloc Pliers (much more
than a pair of "modified $3.00 pliers"). Camloc Pliers are not modified from
anything, they are their own unique tool manufactured from their own unique
forgings and designed specifically to install Camlocs - nothing more - nothing
less. I am not sure what a $40 tool looks like, but I can assure you that
buying the correct tool for the job will more than pay for itself when
aggravation and lost time fumbling with improper tools is factored in.
Why might you ask are they more expensive than say Cleco Pliers which they
vaguely resemble - the answer is simple "Economy of Scale". We sell (as I
assume is true with most other tool suppliers) thousands and thousands of Cleco
Pliers every year. We sell less than a thousand Camloc Pliers per year. The more
you manufacture the cheaper the cost.
Now for a shameless plug: We sell Camloc Pliers on our website for $25.95.
For those of you interested, visit our website at <A HREF="www.browntool.com">www.browntool.com
Hope I have added something of use to the conversation.
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
3801 S. Meridian Ave.
Oklahoma City, OK 73119
USA
1-800-587-3883
405-688-6888
FAX 405-688-6555
browntool@aol.com
www.browntool.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
There are two tools Skybolt sells - the modified pliers to put the camlock
(i.e., screw) itself in, and this device to stretch and then install the
locking ring around the camlock housing. If I recall, they are $20-something
each, but if you buy both it costs $40 for both. While I too hate paying that
much for something like that, I would do it again as having the right tool
for what was needed made installation of all components a breeze. Both tools
work very well for what they are intended.
Scott in MEM
RV-8A baffles
Terry Watson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> I bought the kit from Skybolt but haven't installed it yet. If I recall
> correctly, the expensive tool to install them with was a $40 version of a
> modified $3.00 pair of pliers. I will assume it works, but it sure didn't
> look like a $40 tool to me.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A
> Seattle
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> How are regular camlocks held in place? I have heard there is a expensive
> tool used to install them but I have looked at the camlock and can see no
> way to do anything to them with a tool that will make them stay in place.
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I was told the Camlock tool is about $300.00.
At 05:17 PM 6/11/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 6/11/2003 3:56:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
>terry@tcwatson.com writes:
>
>> I bought the kit from Skybolt but haven't installed it yet. If I recall
>> correctly, the expensive tool to install them with was a $40 version of a
>> modified $3.00 pair of pliers. I will assume it works, but it sure didn't
>> look like a $40 tool to me.
>>
>My observations as an aircraft tool supplier:
>
>The proper tool used to install Camlocs is a pair of Camloc Pliers (much more
>than a pair of "modified $3.00 pliers"). Camloc Pliers are not modified from
>anything, they are their own unique tool manufactured from their own unique
>forgings and designed specifically to install Camlocs - nothing more -
nothing
>less. I am not sure what a $40 tool looks like, but I can assure you that
>buying the correct tool for the job will more than pay for itself when
>aggravation and lost time fumbling with improper tools is factored in.
>
>Why might you ask are they more expensive than say Cleco Pliers which they
>vaguely resemble - the answer is simple "Economy of Scale". We sell (as I
>assume is true with most other tool suppliers) thousands and thousands of
>Cleco
>Pliers every year. We sell less than a thousand Camloc Pliers per year. The
>more
>you manufacture the cheaper the cost.
>
>Now for a shameless plug: We sell Camloc Pliers on our website for $25.95.
>For those of you interested, visit our website at <A
>HREF="www.browntool.com">www.browntool.com
>
>Hope I have added something of use to the conversation.
>
>Michael Brown
>Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
>3801 S. Meridian Ave.
>Oklahoma City, OK 73119
>USA
>
>1-800-587-3883
>405-688-6888
>FAX 405-688-6555
>
>browntool@aol.com
>www.browntool.com
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
So what holds a camlock in place and how? What do the camlock pliers do or
install and how?
At 05:17 PM 6/11/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 6/11/2003 3:56:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
>terry@tcwatson.com writes:
>
>> I bought the kit from Skybolt but haven't installed it yet. If I recall
>> correctly, the expensive tool to install them with was a $40 version of a
>> modified $3.00 pair of pliers. I will assume it works, but it sure didn't
>> look like a $40 tool to me.
>>
>My observations as an aircraft tool supplier:
>
>The proper tool used to install Camlocs is a pair of Camloc Pliers (much more
>than a pair of "modified $3.00 pliers"). Camloc Pliers are not modified from
>anything, they are their own unique tool manufactured from their own unique
>forgings and designed specifically to install Camlocs - nothing more -
nothing
>less. I am not sure what a $40 tool looks like, but I can assure you that
>buying the correct tool for the job will more than pay for itself when
>aggravation and lost time fumbling with improper tools is factored in.
>
>Why might you ask are they more expensive than say Cleco Pliers which they
>vaguely resemble - the answer is simple "Economy of Scale". We sell (as I
>assume is true with most other tool suppliers) thousands and thousands of
>Cleco
>Pliers every year. We sell less than a thousand Camloc Pliers per year. The
>more
>you manufacture the cheaper the cost.
>
>Now for a shameless plug: We sell Camloc Pliers on our website for $25.95.
>For those of you interested, visit our website at <A
>HREF="www.browntool.com">www.browntool.com
>
>Hope I have added something of use to the conversation.
>
>Michael Brown
>Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
>3801 S. Meridian Ave.
>Oklahoma City, OK 73119
>USA
>
>1-800-587-3883
>405-688-6888
>FAX 405-688-6555
>
>browntool@aol.com
>www.browntool.com
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 31
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| Subject: | Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
OK, I thought maybe my memory was slipping a bit again so I went out to the
shop and dug out my genuine Camlock 4P3 1/4 fastener tooling, AKA Camlock
Pliers. Price: $34.00. No doubt they have their own castings, but they
sure look like a modified $3.00 pair of slip joint pliers to me. The other
tool that Skybolt told me I needed is the T26 snap ring tool, price $19.00.
Both are probably worth it, but I stand by my comment that the Camlock
Pliers look like a modified $3.00 pair of slip joint pliers.
If your are building a house and buy enough gun nails to put on the roof,
the nail supplier will sometimes give you the pneumatic nail gun to use them
in, which doesn't look anything like a modified $3.00 hammer.
One of the great things about building an airplane is how it conditions you
to spend money. I remember when I started out wondering where I could get
tools cheaper than Avery of Cleavland or Brown. After five years of
building and spending, I can order a $24,000 engine without my knees getting
weak, and I don't hesitate anymore about buying the right tool for the job.
But these things still look like a modified $3.00 pair of slip joint pliers
to me. I don't remember if Skybolt charged me full price for the tools or
not.
Terry
My observations as an aircraft tool supplier:
The proper tool used to install Camlocs is a pair of Camloc Pliers (much
more
than a pair of "modified $3.00 pliers"). Camloc Pliers are not modified
from
anything, they are their own unique tool manufactured from their own unique
forgings and designed specifically to install Camlocs - nothing more -
nothing
less. I am not sure what a $40 tool looks like, but I can assure you that
buying the correct tool for the job will more than pay for itself when
aggravation and lost time fumbling with improper tools is factored in.
Why might you ask are they more expensive than say Cleco Pliers which they
vaguely resemble - the answer is simple "Economy of Scale". We sell (as I
assume is true with most other tool suppliers) thousands and thousands of
Cleco
Pliers every year. We sell less than a thousand Camloc Pliers per year. The
more
you manufacture the cheaper the cost.
Now for a shameless plug: We sell Camloc Pliers on our website for $25.95.
For those of you interested, visit our website at <A
HREF="www.browntool.com">www.browntool.com
Hope I have added something of use to the conversation.
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
3801 S. Meridian Ave.
Oklahoma City, OK 73119
USA
Message 32
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| Subject: | Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Reese" <waynereese@qwest.net>
Hear! Hear!
Wayne
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new
organization
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
We are a pretty small constitiuency fighting a pretty big Goverment, and
a
whole bunch of soccer moms. If we want to keep flying the way we do
now, we
need some pretty big, politically powerful, organizations working for
us.
Every one is welcome to join any club you want, go sit under a the wing
of
your airplane in a pasture, away from the non-flying public, and tell
each
other that you are a great pilots or builders you are. But DO NOT stop
supporting the political (and commercial) machines, AOPA and EAA that
are
fighting for us in Washington and in the public eye.
I have some beefs with EAA, and I make them known in the right circles,
(I
am pretty sure no one cares) but they do a great job in many areas.
Join
SAA if you like, that is great, but for a different purpose. All of us
should continue to support EAA and AOPA until SAA or another group has a
political machine to fight for us. I don't see that happening anytime
soon.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
See if your local EAA chapter doesn't own a set. Mine does!
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Brumbelow" <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Camlock installation
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
>
> There are two tools Skybolt sells - the modified pliers to put the camlock
> (i.e., screw) itself in, and this device to stretch and then install the
> locking ring around the camlock housing. If I recall, they are
$20-something
> each, but if you buy both it costs $40 for both. While I too hate paying
that
> much for something like that, I would do it again as having the right tool
> for what was needed made installation of all components a breeze. Both
tools
> work very well for what they are intended.
>
> Scott in MEM
> RV-8A baffles
>
>
> Terry Watson wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
> >
> > I bought the kit from Skybolt but haven't installed it yet. If I recall
> > correctly, the expensive tool to install them with was a $40 version of
a
> > modified $3.00 pair of pliers. I will assume it works, but it sure
didn't
> > look like a $40 tool to me.
> >
> > Terry
> > RV-8A
> > Seattle
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > How are regular camlocks held in place? I have heard there is a
expensive
> > tool used to install them but I have looked at the camlock and can see
no
> > way to do anything to them with a tool that will make them stay in
place.
> >
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 05:17 PM 6/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
>
>Why might you ask are they more expensive than say Cleco Pliers which they
>vaguely resemble - the answer is simple "Economy of Scale". We sell (as I
>assume is true with most other tool suppliers) thousands and thousands of
>Cleco
>Pliers every year. We sell less than a thousand Camloc Pliers per
>year. The more
>you manufacture the cheaper the cost.
Michael,
It is very, very difficult to get us rv'ers to understand the concept of
economy of scale, especially when it comes to engines for small aircraft.
However, if you are selling a 1000 pairs a year and others are selling some
too - maybe that is high. When I took a shop class in an Industrial
Engineer program, we made pliers and other very fine tools. Hand made
pliers on an antique drop hammer would take less than ten minutes of
unskilled labor. Allowing that they cost $10 to make, wholesaler pays that
+ $3 profit to the manufacturer. Now wholesaler sells to retailer for $13
plus maybe 30% and some shipping so retailer pays maybe $19. Retailer
marks it up 40% to $27. ??
Now maybe one of us who wants to get filthy rich could set up shop and make
some to compete at a lower price??
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 35
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| Subject: | Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
This page shows how Camloc pliers are used and also how the assemblies are
retained:
http://pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/079.pdf
If you are installing Camlocs on a regular basis it makes sense to have the
proper tools. However, for occasional use, you can improvise (IMHO). If your
EAA chapter has a tool crib, you may want to check to see if they have
Camloc tools available.
-----Original Message-----
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
So what holds a Camloc in place and how? What do the Camloc pliers do or
install and how?
Message 36
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| Subject: | New web group for San Francisco Bay Area Rvators |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Hester <kevinh-unfiltered@sneakyfrog.com>
Hi, (please ignore if not around SF/Silicon Valley)
I've noticed a dearth of electronic regional resources for the San
Francisco Bay Area - kinda odd since Van's shows a bunch of builders in
this 'high-tech' area. I did find a web page for an old group, but it
seems no longer active. To remedy this - I've created a small mailing
list for our use - if you are in the Bay Area, please sign up for this
low traffic mailing list at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bayarea-rvator/
The group description is as follows:
This group provides a forum to complement the various great national RV
mailing lists. Those lists provide a great forum for asking technical
questions or general discussions.
This forum is focused on local aspects of building or flying an RV. The
email traffic should be relatively low. Example topics for this group:
* Anyone want to trade bucking bar assistance (please email me off
list)?
* Anyone have an instrument hole cutter I can borrow?
* Hey, this looks odd can someone take a look?
* I'm at a major milestone in my project (i.e. 1st flight etc...) I'd
like to invite ya'll to give my work a critical look.
* I've got a hangar available for rent (yeah - we can all dream)
EAA 62 provides a forum for this sort of stuff - but it is more of a
monthly meeting sort of thing (with a potentially long drive for some
of us)
Message 37
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
I am very tempted by the Dynon D-10 EFIS, but I have a few questions
before decide whether to order one. Dynon hasn't answered my e-mail
yet, and I am an impatient type, so I'll fire some of the questions
to the list.
Night operation - as near as I can tell, there is no lighting for the
buttons, so they would only be lit by my cockpit flood lights. Is
that correct? Can the intensity of the display be set low enough for
night operation? Is the colour balance still OK at low intensity?
Does anyone have anything bad to say? I have read several posts from
those how are flying, and everyone seems delirously happy. Is this a
universal feeling?
What is the status of the heading function?
If I order a unit, how much of a deposit is required at the time of
order, and when is the rest of the money required?
I want to see one in person before I order. I live near Ottawa,
Ontario. Does anyone have one flying nearer than Green Bay, WI? If
so, would you be willing to take me up for a flight if I pay for the
gas? I've got some Air Canada frequent flyer points that might not
be worth much soon, so I might as well use them on a trip to see a
Dynon flying. Does anyone have one near to Ottawa who isn't flying
yet? Even a look at one powered up on the ground would be useful to
me.
Thanks,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Dang, didn't know I needed such a tool, didn't even know that such a tool
existed. I used the same "tool" that I used to install wheel keepers on my
kids toys. A deep, six point, 3/8" drive socket (sized to fit w/o wobble)
and tapped on with a light weight, rubber coated, mallet. Did remove a
coupla of the rings... used a thin blade screwdriver, did not reuse them.
The ones removed were exchanged for longer or shorter ones to fit flush.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Do Not Archive KABONG (GBA)
8*)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Camlock installation -
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> OK, I thought maybe my memory was slipping a bit again so I went out to
the
> shop and dug out my genuine Camlock 4P3 1/4 fastener tooling, AKA Camlock
> Pliers. Price: $34.00. www.browntool.com
>
> Hope I have added something of use to the conversation.
>
> Michael Brown
> Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
> 3801 S. Meridian Ave.
> Oklahoma City, OK 73119
> USA
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: John Mcmahon <rv6@earthlink.net>
Has anyone in RV land installed Graphic's on their RV,and if so what Co
did you use..
I checked the archives !!
Thanks
John McMahon (Paint Prep)
Do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | State park flyins (was:Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a |
new
organization)
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
John Allen Hurn wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Allen Hurn" <hurns-ac@attbi.com>
>
>Sounds like the right idea. Can you just see some National State Park, with
>an old grass strip in the USA with no commercial food venders and ever one
>tail gating a big two day lunch. Wow! Now that would be like the old wagon
>train days only with airplanes. We all chip in to pay the State Park not
>some one else.
>
>Johnny wrote.
>
Oklahoma has (or had the last time I looked) quite a few state parks
with nice runways within the parks, complete with a phone to call the
ranger for ground transport. Several have lodges & cabins for rent, as
well as camping facilities.
I attended a T-18 flyin at one about 10 years ago, & went back on my own
later because it was so nice.
If someone wants to do the legwork to organize it, I'll try to attend.
Oklahoma should be within reach of a lot of RV'rs for a weekend trip.
Charlie
(no, I'm not from Oklahoma.)
Message 41
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
They'll need my CC number when it's ready to ship. I've given them no
money yet.
I get the impression from some of the pictures on Dynon's site that the
buttons are labled via the screen. Push any button and the menu/labels
appear -- so lighting to the buttons themselves wouldn't be needed.
Guessing -- could be wrong.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:43 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com; rv8list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: Dynon EFIS questions
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I am very tempted by the Dynon D-10 EFIS, but I have a few questions
> before decide whether to order one. Dynon hasn't answered my e-mail
> yet, and I am an impatient type, so I'll fire some of the questions
> to the list.
>
> Night operation - as near as I can tell, there is no lighting for the
> buttons, so they would only be lit by my cockpit flood lights. Is
> that correct? Can the intensity of the display be set low enough for
> night operation? Is the colour balance still OK at low intensity?
>
> Does anyone have anything bad to say? I have read several posts from
> those how are flying, and everyone seems delirously happy. Is this a
> universal feeling?
>
> What is the status of the heading function?
>
> If I order a unit, how much of a deposit is required at the time of
> order, and when is the rest of the money required?
>
> I want to see one in person before I order. I live near Ottawa,
> Ontario. Does anyone have one flying nearer than Green Bay, WI? If
> so, would you be willing to take me up for a flight if I pay for the
> gas? I've got some Air Canada frequent flyer points that might not
> be worth much soon, so I might as well use them on a trip to see a
> Dynon flying. Does anyone have one near to Ottawa who isn't flying
> yet? Even a look at one powered up on the ground would be useful to
> me.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new organization |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Mckenna" <mmckenna@bellsouth.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Helms
Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts on Glenn Williams ideas of a new
organization
"And when you attract enough people, you're going to attract
folks like Van's Aircraft, Inc, and others who'll want to set up booths.
You'll ask a modest charge for him to attend to cover costs."
Unfortunately, these big events (Osh, Sun N Fun) are charging the vendors
so much money to setup, they are starting to shrink there displays or not
show. The "Home Show" vendors appear to be taking over the buildings at
Sun N Fun. There soon will be no attraction at these events for the grass
roots EAA minded individuals.
Mike Mckenna
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: New web group for San Francisco Bay Area Rvators |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Kevin:
On May 14th, another RV builder started a group in your area also.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorCal-rvlist/?yguid=99675710
So far, there are 25 members and they are planning a get together on the
28th at one of their hangars at Reid-Hillview.
I spent some time in Sunnyvale and have RV friends there. My RV was flying
in and out of RHV every weekend during a 6 week business trip. I had a tie
down at Vern Miller Aviation.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,285 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Kevin Hester <kevinh-unfiltered@sneakyfrog.com>
Subject: RV-List: New web group for San Francisco Bay Area Rvators
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Hester
<kevinh-unfiltered@sneakyfrog.com>
Hi, (please ignore if not around SF/Silicon Valley)
I've noticed a dearth of electronic regional resources for the San
Francisco Bay Area - kinda odd since Van's shows a bunch of builders in
this 'high-tech' area. I did find a web page for an old group, but it
seems no longer active. To remedy this - I've created a small mailing
list for our use - if you are in the Bay Area, please sign up for this
low traffic mailing list at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bayarea-rvator/
The group description is as follows:
This group provides a forum to complement the various great national RV
mailing lists. Those lists provide a great forum for asking technical
questions or general discussions.
This forum is focused on local aspects of building or flying an RV. The
email traffic should be relatively low. Example topics for this group:
* Anyone want to trade bucking bar assistance (please email me off
list)?
* Anyone have an instrument hole cutter I can borrow?
* Hey, this looks odd can someone take a look?
* I'm at a major milestone in my project (i.e. 1st flight etc...) I'd
like to invite ya'll to give my work a critical look.
* I've got a hangar available for rent (yeah - we can all dream)
EAA 62 provides a forum for this sort of stuff - but it is more of a
monthly meeting sort of thing (with a potentially long drive for some
of us)
Message 44
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| Subject: | Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Thought that subject line just might avoid an ol index finder delete!!
Here's the question. The only time I have ever been to Oshkosh, other than
last year, I have flown in. I alway carried the nessessary refreshments on
board due to the lack of off site transportation. Can you bring beer though
the gates to airplane camping?? Those who attended the beer and brats get
together and SNF campsite, know where this might be going.
Just stock up on the airplane lies!!!!!
I'm planning on spend so much instrument money, I'll have to have
refreshments to settle my nerves............
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Camlock installation - |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
kempthornes wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
> At 05:17 PM 6/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
> >
> >Why might you ask are they more expensive than say Cleco Pliers which they
> >vaguely resemble - the answer is simple "Economy of Scale". We sell (as I
> >assume is true with most other tool suppliers) thousands and thousands of
> >Cleco
> >Pliers every year. We sell less than a thousand Camloc Pliers per
> >year. The more
> >you manufacture the cheaper the cost.
>
> Michael,
>
> It is very, very difficult to get us rv'ers to understand the concept of
> economy of scale, especially when it comes to engines for small aircraft.
>
> However, if you are selling a 1000 pairs a year and others are selling some
> too - maybe that is high. When I took a shop class in an Industrial
> Engineer program, we made pliers and other very fine tools. Hand made
> pliers on an antique drop hammer would take less than ten minutes of
> unskilled labor. Allowing that they cost $10 to make, wholesaler pays that
> + $3 profit to the manufacturer. Now wholesaler sells to retailer for $13
> plus maybe 30% and some shipping so retailer pays maybe $19. Retailer
> marks it up 40% to $27. ??
>
> Now maybe one of us who wants to get filthy rich could set up shop and make
> some to compete at a lower price??
Ok guys......let's see if we can run another industry supplier off the
list! Maybe we can add Mike Brown to the other experts (like Scott
McDaniels) who have left the list after enduring senseless abuse.
Good grief, could we have a little civility, please?
Sam Buchanan
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Dana,
Of course you can bring as much beer through the gates as you can carry.
There is a grocery store within a (lengthy) walk of the showplane camping
area. The bus service can drop you off at the grocery store, although this
is by request only, and they (generally) won't stop to pick you up on the
return trip. The upside is that there is always someone at the grocery
store who is a pilot and understands EXACTLY why you (and your 3 cases of
beer) need a ride to the campground.
You'd asked me to reply off-list if I was planning on attending Osh, and
since I don't follow directions well, I'll answer "yes" on-list.
By the way, I don't really carry so much campgear in the RV. It helps to
have a buddy bring most of the big stuff in a SUV.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!!
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Thought that subject line just might avoid an ol index finder delete!!
>
> Here's the question. The only time I have ever been to Oshkosh, other
than
> last year, I have flown in. I alway carried the nessessary refreshments
on
> board due to the lack of off site transportation. Can you bring beer
though
> the gates to airplane camping?? Those who attended the beer and brats get
> together and SNF campsite, know where this might be going.
>
> Just stock up on the airplane lies!!!!!
>
> I'm planning on spend so much instrument money, I'll have to have
> refreshments to settle my nerves............
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider/fuselage
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
Message 47
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--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
I would also like info on graphics provider. I'm having trouble finding a
company willing to work with me on a design.
Cash Copeland
RV6 Solid White in need of color
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: AFP Boost Pump and Fuel Lines in RV-6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: emrath <emrath@comcast.net>
I'm about at this stage and could use some pictures of Van's set up. Can
anyone put up pictures on Matt's photo page or send to me? I was thinking
of using the standard fuel valve, drop a line to the floor, run it forward
to the battery mount, but instead of mounting the battery here (mount
battery on the forward side of the firewall using the -7 kit), the AFP
package here, continue the line through the firewall with a bulkhead
fitting, probably to the left of centerline. Then cover the floor, at least
the center between the stiffeners, and the pump in the battery's normal
location with a cover. Probably cover the rest of the floor and sandwich
some insulation between this sub floor and the forward belly skin. Any
thoughts about this? Really would like to see some pictures of the normal
-7 mounting for this kit.
Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A flap mounting.
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
I haven't flown it at night, but I've turned it on at night.
The intensity can be set very low. Perfect night viewing.
The buttons to not need to be lit. When any button is pressed to menu
appears above the
buttons on the LCD screen.
Bad things so far:
Electrical connections and pitot, static connections on back are too close
together. I had to grind
a bit off of the electrical housing and really think about what nylon
fitting to use.
The heading currently does not work well. It is a simple software problem.
The wiring includes
a 9 pin connector for a lap top and data is uploaded very easily. The
heading software
is expected to be improved and released soon.
Feel free to see mine. Its not flying yet but I can remove it from the panel
and you can
observe the gyro response.
Steve
Kingston, Ont
RV7A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon EFIS questions
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I am very tempted by the Dynon D-10 EFIS, but I have a few questions
> before decide whether to order one. Dynon hasn't answered my e-mail
> yet, and I am an impatient type, so I'll fire some of the questions
> to the list.
>
> Night operation - as near as I can tell, there is no lighting for the
> buttons, so they would only be lit by my cockpit flood lights. Is
> that correct? Can the intensity of the display be set low enough for
> night operation? Is the colour balance still OK at low intensity?
>
> Does anyone have anything bad to say? I have read several posts from
> those how are flying, and everyone seems delirously happy. Is this a
> universal feeling?
>
> What is the status of the heading function?
>
> If I order a unit, how much of a deposit is required at the time of
> order, and when is the rest of the money required?
>
> I want to see one in person before I order. I live near Ottawa,
> Ontario. Does anyone have one flying nearer than Green Bay, WI? If
> so, would you be willing to take me up for a flight if I pay for the
> gas? I've got some Air Canada frequent flyer points that might not
> be worth much soon, so I might as well use them on a trip to see a
> Dynon flying. Does anyone have one near to Ottawa who isn't flying
> yet? Even a look at one powered up on the ground would be useful to
> me.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
Of course you can bring beer.
Just bring REAL beer (i.e. Canadian made) and you'll be fine.
Steve
Up north, Ont
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh & Beer.....forget Coke!!
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Thought that subject line just might avoid an ol index finder delete!!
>
> Here's the question. The only time I have ever been to Oshkosh, other
than
> last year, I have flown in. I alway carried the nessessary refreshments
on
> board due to the lack of off site transportation. Can you bring beer
though
> the gates to airplane camping?? Those who attended the beer and brats get
> together and SNF campsite, know where this might be going.
>
> Just stock up on the airplane lies!!!!!
>
> I'm planning on spend so much instrument money, I'll have to have
> refreshments to settle my nerves............
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider/fuselage
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Adhesive for non-structural metal-to-metal |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Dale
I understand Gorilla Glue can only be used when one of the materials
being fastened is wood, since it is the moisture in the wood that
catalyzes it. Am I mistaken? Have you used it for metal to metal?
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (on hold pending move to
Tennessee)
Do not archive
On 06/04/03, DWENSING@aol.com wrote:
(snip)
You don't say what temperatures the application sees or if it needs
chemical
resistance (like gas or oil) or UV resistance...... but you could try a
structural epoxy such as PC-7 sold in hardware stores or Gorilla Glue.
Info
available at www.gorillaglue.com or 1-800-966-3458.
Dale Ensing
Message 52
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Try these guys, I've been using their stuff for years. They are terrific!
Tell them Dr. Leathers sent you!
Doc
http://www.prismvinyl.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: <JusCash@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Graphics
> --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
>
> I would also like info on graphics provider. I'm having trouble finding a
> company willing to work with me on a design.
> Cash Copeland
> RV6 Solid White in need of color
>
>
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hello Kevin and Larry,
Larry has it right about the buttons, on touch to any one of the buttons and
a strip of identifiers along the bottom of the screen lights up. These
buttons seem to me to well thought out in regard to their functions and
their tendency to be quite intuitive in use.
The display can be turned down in several button push steps to almost off.
The color balance is good.
As with most of these types of screens very direct sunlight is the enemy. In
this regard the D-10 is readable, brighter would be unreasonable in all
other conditions.
My opinion on this;
In bright sunlight the eyes will tend to be outside. all other conditions
this unit reads very well. With the sun low on your six I think you will
still be able to read the unit.
The heading function calibration of the compass requires that it is done in
flight with a portable computer on board. I would think that it would be a
two person job. If you don't have a complicated magnetic control panel
environment you will not need the remote compass unit and calibration might
not be all that difficult. I hear that some programming is in the works for
the heading function but have no first hand knowledge.
I would ask direct questions of them in this regard. they have been really
good people to deal with and I'm sure they will level with you on any
subject re their product.
It seems that the majority of people that see the D-10 first hand like the
unit. I have not heard of anyone sending one back for a refund yet.
There is no down money asked for to my knowledge. They are still selling
units as fast or faster than they can produce them. If you have a change of
heart on delivery day they will move to the next name on the list.
Please keep in mind that I do have the unit in hand. It is not installed in
a flying aircraft as yet. I'm still doing wiring etc. My actual flying
experience is next to none.
That said, I still feel safe in saying that you will like Dynon's product
when you get to play with it a bit.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon EFIS questions
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I am very tempted by the Dynon D-10 EFIS, but I have a few questions
> before decide whether to order one. Dynon hasn't answered my e-mail
> yet, and I am an impatient type, so I'll fire some of the questions
> to the list.
>
> Night operation - as near as I can tell, there is no lighting for the
> buttons, so they would only be lit by my cockpit flood lights. Is
> that correct? Can the intensity of the display be set low enough for
> night operation? Is the colour balance still OK at low intensity?
>
> Does anyone have anything bad to say? I have read several posts from
> those how are flying, and everyone seems delirously happy. Is this a
> universal feeling?
>
> What is the status of the heading function?
>
> If I order a unit, how much of a deposit is required at the time of
> order, and when is the rest of the money required?
>
> I want to see one in person before I order. I live near Ottawa,
> Ontario. Does anyone have one flying nearer than Green Bay, WI? If
> so, would you be willing to take me up for a flight if I pay for the
> gas? I've got some Air Canada frequent flyer points that might not
> be worth much soon, so I might as well use them on a trip to see a
> Dynon flying. Does anyone have one near to Ottawa who isn't flying
> yet? Even a look at one powered up on the ground would be useful to
> me.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 54
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Cash,
Try Kirby's Kustom Graphics. www.angelfire.com/oh2/kirbysgraphics/index.html
He does a lot of Giant Scale model aerobatic planes and I believe he has
worked with a few "real" planes. He also has about every aviation related
logo known to man. The man behind the machine is Dennis Kirby, great guy.
I'm getting ready to order stuff for my 35% Extra model.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: <JusCash@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Graphics
> --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
>
> I would also like info on graphics provider. I'm having trouble finding a
> company willing to work with me on a design.
> Cash Copeland
> RV6 Solid White in need of color
>
>
Message 55
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Have you tried "Freedom Graphics"??
We **FAXED** them the "back of napkin" design that Patty came up with. They
emailed artwork and after a few iterations we said OK.
All I provided was the fax, the fact that it was an RV6 and what colors to
use where.
We get many compliments on the look of the plane.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JusCash@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:46 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Graphics
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
>
> I would also like info on graphics provider. I'm having trouble
> finding a
> company willing to work with me on a design.
> Cash Copeland
> RV6 Solid White in need of color
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | No license, no experience, building an RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski" <brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
Everyone -
I've just started building an RV-8 tail and have been following this list for a
few months. My plan is to have the RV complete in 3 years. I currently have
a grand total of 2 hours flying time -1 in a 172, 1 (sort of) in an SNJ and no
training.
My question is - how much experience is required to fly this plane safely? I'm
not much of a risk-taker and will not fly this plane until I know it's at least
a safe as getting in my truck to drive to work.
Getting my license and a bunch of hours before starting to build is out of the
question because I have no interest in flying if the only thing I'll ever be able
to fly is a rented 172.
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Sorry if this if a common question
that has been addressed in the archives but I couldn't find any search strings
that resulted in less than 1000 results. I am, however, proud of myself for
so far not posting any questions on priming.
Brett Morawski
Toledo, OH
RV-8 emp
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: No license, no experience, building an RV-8 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
IF your building a -8 not an -8A I would recommend that you learn to fly in
a tail dragger, cub, champ etc. and start now. Sounds like the sailor who
figured he'd learn how to swim IF he ever fell off the boat. Know of a guy
that spent years (15) building a Q-2 (?)tailwheel only to buy a C-140 when
he sold his Q-2 project and found out that he will NEVER be comfortable
landing a taildragger. Lots of hours with instructor but NO solo. He sold
the C-140, bought a nose gear airplane but hasn't soloed it either as its
going thru it's annual.
Don't let your ego write a check your body/training can't cash. I also have
1 hr. in an SNJ (last Saturday) but I was along for the "ride". I did some
steep turns, Dutch rolls, etc. but it was for fun not "training" and it's
not in my log book (pilot was a CFI) . Good luck on your building, ask
anything of the guys on the list. You will get honest answers and lots of
help from those of us that have been there-done that. KABONG (GBA) Do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Morawski" <brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
Subject: RV-List: No license, no experience, building an RV-8
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski"
<brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
>
> Everyone -
>
> I've just started building an RV-8 tail and have been following this list
for a few months. My plan is to have the RV complete in 3 years. I
currently have a grand total of 2 hours flying time -1 in a 172, 1 (sort of)
in an SNJ and no training.
>
> My question is - how much experience is required to fly this plane safely?
I'm not much of a risk-taker and will not fly this plane until I know it's
at least a safe as getting in my truck to drive to work.
>
> Getting my license and a bunch of hours before starting to build is out of
the question because I have no interest in flying if the only thing I'll
ever be able to fly is a rented 172.
>
> Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Sorry if this if a common
question that has been addressed in the archives but I couldn't find any
search strings that resulted in less than 1000 results. I am, however,
proud of myself for so far not posting any questions on priming.
>
> Brett Morawski
> Toledo, OH
> RV-8 emp
>
>
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