Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:00 AM - Re: 168hp 0-360 A1A (Kevin Horton)
2. 03:00 AM - Re: 168hp 0-360 A1A (Kevin Horton)
3. 03:43 AM - FW: SWPC: (no subject) (William Costello)
4. 05:52 AM - Flat black on top cowl? (czechsix@juno.com)
5. 06:12 AM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (James E. Clark)
6. 06:37 AM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (James E. Clark)
7. 07:09 AM - Re: 168hp 0-360 A1A (Mike Stephenson)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com)
9. 07:33 AM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (Scott Bilinski)
10. 08:14 AM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (James E. Clark)
11. 08:53 AM - Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In (JDaniel343@aol.com)
12. 08:55 AM - Re: Rudder Stiffener Tooling Marks? (Andy Karmy)
13. 09:16 AM - Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In (lucky macy)
14. 09:18 AM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com)
15. 10:01 AM - Re: prop spacer thanks (HCRV6@aol.com)
16. 10:03 AM - Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In (zilik@direcpc.com)
17. 10:31 AM - Re: Rudder Stiffener Tooling Marks? (Bill Dube)
18. 10:47 AM - Raim Prediction (Ronnie Brown)
19. 10:58 AM - IFR and TSO'd instruments ?? (Ronnie Brown)
20. 11:16 AM - Re: Best Stops to Oshkosh (Karen and Robert Brown)
21. 12:34 PM - High compression Pistons ()
22. 02:36 PM - Re: prop spacer thanks (chris m)
23. 02:42 PM - Re: High compression Pistons (RV6 Flyer)
24. 03:27 PM - Re: IFR and TSO'd instruments ?? (Mike Robertson)
25. 03:53 PM - Looking for Cargo Trailer to move RV-6 (Jordan Grant)
26. 05:35 PM - Re: Raim Prediction (Kevin Horton)
27. 09:15 PM - Re: Looking for Cargo Trailer to move RV-6 (RobHickman@aol.com)
28. 10:09 PM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (Jeff Bertsch)
29. 10:11 PM - Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... (James E. Clark)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 168hp 0-360 A1A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Stephenson" <mike@proclaimweb.com>
>
>Yep . . . I have a very modest goal in mind - to build a perfect RV. . . :)
>
>The 0-320 - 160hp is a very smooth running engine. (I have tried it, and
>most of the van's employees seem to agree) I was just wondering if a lower
>compression, 0-360, with it's 1/2" longer stroke, might even be smoother. Of
>course, I am only willing to go 1 mile per hour slower, don't you know.
>
>mike stephenson
If everything else is equal, I would expect a longer stroke engine to
vibrate more, as the pistons are being moved a longer distance and
the piston speeds are higher.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 168hp 0-360 A1A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Stephenson" <mike@proclaimweb.com>
>
>I'm trolling for knowledge.
>
>For my 6A, I just picked up a run out 0-360 A1A core. What would be the good
>and bad side if, during rebuild, I install low compression pistons instead
>of the normal high compression ones. If I remember correctly it would then
>develop168 hp, rather than the normal 180hp.
>
>Questions:
>
>With 12hp less, how much would the rate of climb decrease?
Assuming a prop efficiency of 78%, a 12 hp decrement at the engine
would be a decrease of about 9.4 hp delivered by the prop. At a
weight of 1650 lb, this should reduce the rate of climb by 9.4 x
33,000/1650 = 187 ft/mn.
Notes: I assumed a constant speed prop in both cases, so the full
engine power was available. The difference in power between the two
engines would be greatest at sea level, and would be less as the
altitude is increased. So the decrease in rate of climb would also
be less as altitude is increased. The prop efficiency may actually
not be the same in the two cases, so that could affect the result.
>What effect would it have on cruise performance?
For small changes in power, you can figure that the speed varies as
the cube root of the power. So, if you can cruise at 197 mph at 75%
at 8,000 ft with a 180 hp engine (Van's numbers), the 168 hp engine
should give you 197 x (168/180)
(1/3) = 193 mph.
>
>What effect would it have on fuel usage at cruise?
Well, this engine produces about 7% less power than the 180 hp
version, so it will burn less fuel. However, brake specific fuel
consumption (BSFC) increases with a decrease in compression ratio
(CR) - in other words for the same power output, a lower compression
ratio engine will burn more fuel. I don't have the formula handy
that relates BSFC and CR, but a SWAG would be that you would see a 5
- 6% decrease in fuel burn in cruise.
>
>Would it run cooler?
Less power produced means less heat produced, so it should run cooler.
>
>Since the low compression engines were designed for 80 octane, would a 168hp
>be smoother, quieter and less prone to detonation, when burning autogas?
It would definitely be less prone to detonation. I can't comment on
the other aspects.
>
>Would the the lower compression engine last longer?
It might, if you actually ran it the same way you would run the 180
hp version. But it might not last as long if you ran it harder to
try to keep up to those 180 hp guys.
>
>What actually started me thinking along this line, is that most of Van's
>employees prefer the 160hp/constant speed setup It is reported to be
>smoother and quieter.
The smoothness may be related to O-320 vs O-360, and not 160 hp vs
180 hp. So you may not find this mystical smoothness via a
compression ratio decrease.
>
>Regards,
>Mike Stephenson
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 3
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| Subject: | FW: SWPC: (no subject) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William Costello" <wmcenterprises@earthlink.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-swpc@lists.his.com [mailto:owner-swpc@lists.his.com]
On Behalf Of Pop6756@aol.com
Subject: SWPC: (no subject)
Don, sorry but saw this AD on the Barnstormers site.
Jeff @ INDY
WARNING-WARNING-WARNING . ANNOUNCEMENT!! DON'T deal with Air
Parts of Michigan, Jason Burke, 586-489-3740, unless you want to
get RIPPED OFF. Jason Burke talks a good talk, takes your money,
and ONLY after repeated phone calls, emails, getting him banned
from Barnstormers for the past 2 weeks, finally ships CRAP. Like
to see a package of emails passed back and forth for the past
month; just contact me and make up your own mind before dealing
with this person. Your money, your choice. Contact Ronald
<mailto:ronwright5@yahoo.com%3FsubjectBarnstormers%20Web%20Site
%20Inquiry:%20WARNING-WARNING-WARNING> Wright located Overland
MO USA. Telephone: 314-423-5058. -- Posted 23 June 2003 -- Show
<http://www.barnstormers2000.com/show_matching.asp?Company+&Las
tNameWright&FirstNameRonald> all Ads posted by this Advertiser
<http://www.barnstormers2000.com/send_to_friend.asp?ID113285>
here.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Flat black on top cowl? |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
I'm considering my options for the black paint that goes on the top cowl from the
spinner to the windshield on my military-themed -8A paint scheme. I know others
have used gloss black here because it holds up better (less resistant to
scuffs and scratches) but I've seen a few RV's that have a flat or semi-gloss
black and they looked better IMHO. Glare isn't really a huge concern to me,
since many have stated that it's a non-issue regardless of paint color or texture,
I just think the flat black LOOKS nicer. Wondering if there's any consensus
on the best type of paint to use if I want flat black?
The two RV-4's I have seen with flat black both used rattle can paint instead of
adding a flattening agent to a polyurethane so that if it does get scratched,
it's easier to touch up later on. This logic makes sense to me. One guy was
using the John Deere Blitz Black (made for touching up farm/lawn/garden machinery)
and the other guy used SEM Flat Trim Black (for touching up trim on cars).
Another one I'm considering is Tempo Epoxy Propeller Coating in Flat Black....I
figure if it can hold up fairly well on a prop, it should be reasonably
tough...anyone have experience with this stuff on a cowl?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing paint booth...
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 5
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Forgot to mention that exhaust was also re-checked two days ago. NO JOY.
It **had** done that before but got fixed. That **seems** to be OK now. Easy
to go and re-check one more time though.
Thanks,
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:08 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> James E. Clark wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> <james@nextupventures.com>
> >
> > HELP ...
> >
> > Our RV has a bit of "the shakes" and I cannot seem to find out
> why. When the
> > plane is first started, it is barely there and it seems to
> deliver power as
> > expected.
> >
> > But, after about 5-10 minutes of flight, I can feel the vibes
> 'a coming on.
> > Subtle, but there.
> >
> > It does NOT go away. It exists at all RPMs though seemingly
> more so at some
> > and maybe a bit less with a throttle back/nose down condition of "less
> > load". In other words it **seems** be maybe power related and not just
> > rotational but I cannot say that for sure.
> >
> > The cylinder head temps and exhaust gas temps seem low to me
> (CHT in the low
> > 300's and EGTs about 1200). The oil temp is around 190-200 with
> OAT about
> > 80-90 degress F. Have tried different leanings and carb heat settings
> > without any change.
> >
> >
> > Aircraft Background:
> >
> > - RV6 with O-320 B2B (160 HP)
> > - ~150 hours on aircraft and engine
> > - Ed Sterba Wood Prop
> > - ElectroAir Ignition + 1 mag
> > - "Harmonic Balancer" Ring
> > - Conical Mount
> >
> >
> > Checked to date (not necessarily in this order):
> >
> > 1. Electronic ignition ... verified and replaced (including a couple of
> > cracked plugs and wires) <thanks Jeff>... NO JOY
> > 2. Prop re-balanced and blade angles re-checked <thanks Ed>... NO JOY
> > 3. Engine mount sag ... "washered up" and snugged up ... NO JOY
> > 4. Ring removed and engine run with just prop ... NO JOY
> > 5. Earlier dynamic balancing of prop ... NO JOY
> > 6. Timing ... all checked and reset ... NO JOY
> > 7. Prop "tracked" to ~ 1/16" (Ed's book says to get within 1/8")
> >
> >
> > Did notice in the archives a case of engine mounts being
> replaced solved a
> > vibration problem after the person had gone through a similar
> list of things
> > but it just *seems* that we have a problem elsewhere.
> >
> > We are at the point of taking the plane to a "trusted" shop
> > ("professionals") for further (engine related) analysis but I figured it
> > could not hurt to get the view of those on the list with significant
> > experience.
> >
> > ==> (????) Do any of you listers have any idea as to what
> *might* be going
> > on here? Although I have just a few more, I am running out of things to
> > check.
> >
> > If you have some insight into matters like this, and prefer to
> contact me
> > "off-list", please do so at james@nextupventures.com. Later I
> will summarize
> > the findings to the list.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > James
> >
> >
>
> James is your exhaust anywhere near touching the bottom of the
> airplane where it
> exits the cowl? My exhaust hanger rubber mounts are starting to
> get old enough
> that the exhaust well at certain speeds or attitudes touch the
> bottom of the
> airplane at the point of exit causing a noticeable vibration.
>
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Thanks Jeff,
Induction leak has been mentioned and I did take a look at the clamps around
the hoses connecting the sump to the induction pipes.
Do you know exactly where you friend's induction leak occurred?
Do you (or anyone on the list) know if there is some "tell-tale" sign that
makes it easy to determine if there is a leak? I took a clean paper towel
with alchohol on it and wiped around the pipes as I was told or read
somewhere that sometimes there might be a blue stain (fuel dye) if there was
such a leak.
Again, thanks.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Bertsch
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:50 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
>
> A friend had a problem with an engine miss that caused
> roughness. It was caused by an induction leak. The
> trick was that the leak did not start until the engine
> heated up and the "crack" expanded.
> This sounds like what you are experiencing too.
> I hope this helps.
>
> Jeff Bertsch
> RV-4
> --- "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> > <james@nextupventures.com>
> >
> > HELP ...
> >
> > Our RV has a bit of "the shakes" and I cannot seem
> > to find out why. When the
> > plane is first started, it is barely there and it
> > seems to deliver power as
> > expected.
> >
> > But, after about 5-10 minutes of flight, I can feel
> > the vibes 'a coming on.
> > Subtle, but there.
> >
> > It does NOT go away. It exists at all RPMs though
> > seemingly more so at some
> > and maybe a bit less with a throttle back/nose down
> > condition of "less
> > load". In other words it **seems** be maybe power
> > related and not just
> > rotational but I cannot say that for sure.
> >
> > The cylinder head temps and exhaust gas temps seem
> > low to me (CHT in the low
> > 300's and EGTs about 1200). The oil temp is around
> > 190-200 with OAT about
> > 80-90 degress F. Have tried different leanings and
> > carb heat settings
> > without any change.
> >
> >
> > Aircraft Background:
> >
> > - RV6 with O-320 B2B (160 HP)
> > - ~150 hours on aircraft and engine
> > - Ed Sterba Wood Prop
> > - ElectroAir Ignition + 1 mag
> > - "Harmonic Balancer" Ring
> > - Conical Mount
> >
> >
> > Checked to date (not necessarily in this order):
> >
> > 1. Electronic ignition ... verified and replaced
> > (including a couple of
> > cracked plugs and wires) <thanks Jeff>... NO JOY
> > 2. Prop re-balanced and blade angles re-checked
> > <thanks Ed>... NO JOY
> > 3. Engine mount sag ... "washered up" and snugged up
> > ... NO JOY
> > 4. Ring removed and engine run with just prop ... NO
> > JOY
> > 5. Earlier dynamic balancing of prop ... NO JOY
> > 6. Timing ... all checked and reset ... NO JOY
> > 7. Prop "tracked" to ~ 1/16" (Ed's book says to get
> > within 1/8")
> >
> >
> > Did notice in the archives a case of engine mounts
> > being replaced solved a
> > vibration problem after the person had gone through
> > a similar list of things
> > but it just *seems* that we have a problem
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > We are at the point of taking the plane to a
> > "trusted" shop
> > ("professionals") for further (engine related)
> > analysis but I figured it
> > could not hurt to get the view of those on the list
> > with significant
> > experience.
> >
> > ==> (????) Do any of you listers have any idea as to
> > what *might* be going
> > on here? Although I have just a few more, I am
> > running out of things to
> > check.
> >
> > If you have some insight into matters like this, and
> > prefer to contact me
> > "off-list", please do so at
> > james@nextupventures.com. Later I will summarize
> > the findings to the list.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 168hp 0-360 A1A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Stephenson" <mike@proclaimweb.com>
Thanks Kevin, man is this list great or what?
Regards,
Mike Stephenson
Message 8
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
06/25/2003 08:47:21 AM
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
four suggestions from me:
1: Have you checked the firewall to engine mount bolt torque? If engine is
on, take a hoist to remove the load and recheck your firewall to engine
mount torque.
2. It is possible that you have recieved some badly manufactured isolation
mounts(dynofocal or conical). Or they may have been damaged during
installation. It would be a good idea to get these replaced while you are
checking the firewall torque, if there is any doubt.
3. It is extremely possible that you have some part of the engine touching
part of the cowl/firewall area. If so this would set up airframe vibration.
check your cowls for any discoloration on the inside with the exception of
the rubber baffle area there should be no part of the engine that is hard
attached touching any part of the cowl or firewall.
4. Check the piano hinge areas for cracking or deformation. These are
sometimes hard to see but a good visual inspection will reveal if any of
the eyes are broken causing the cowling to buffet, while airborne.
NOTE: I do not know how much time you have on your aircraft. These
suggestions are based on aircraft I have seen with a little time on them
and are based on the fact that all engine parameters are within normal
reange.
Regards
Glenn Williams
A&P
Fort Worth, Texas
8A N81GW
Finishing
Message 9
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
There should be a difference in EGT in the leaking cylinder. Right?
At 09:37 AM 6/25/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
>
>Thanks Jeff,
>
>Induction leak has been mentioned and I did take a look at the clamps around
>the hoses connecting the sump to the induction pipes.
>
>Do you know exactly where you friend's induction leak occurred?
>
>Do you (or anyone on the list) know if there is some "tell-tale" sign that
>makes it easy to determine if there is a leak? I took a clean paper towel
>with alchohol on it and wiped around the pipes as I was told or read
>somewhere that sometimes there might be a blue stain (fuel dye) if there was
>such a leak.
>
>Again, thanks.
>
>James
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Bertsch
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:50 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...
>>
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
>>
>> A friend had a problem with an engine miss that caused
>> roughness. It was caused by an induction leak. The
>> trick was that the leak did not start until the engine
>> heated up and the "crack" expanded.
>> This sounds like what you are experiencing too.
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Jeff Bertsch
>> RV-4
>> --- "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> wrote:
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
>> > <james@nextupventures.com>
>> >
>> > HELP ...
>> >
>> > Our RV has a bit of "the shakes" and I cannot seem
>> > to find out why. When the
>> > plane is first started, it is barely there and it
>> > seems to deliver power as
>> > expected.
>> >
>> > But, after about 5-10 minutes of flight, I can feel
>> > the vibes 'a coming on.
>> > Subtle, but there.
>> >
>> > It does NOT go away. It exists at all RPMs though
>> > seemingly more so at some
>> > and maybe a bit less with a throttle back/nose down
>> > condition of "less
>> > load". In other words it **seems** be maybe power
>> > related and not just
>> > rotational but I cannot say that for sure.
>> >
>> > The cylinder head temps and exhaust gas temps seem
>> > low to me (CHT in the low
>> > 300's and EGTs about 1200). The oil temp is around
>> > 190-200 with OAT about
>> > 80-90 degress F. Have tried different leanings and
>> > carb heat settings
>> > without any change.
>> >
>> >
>> > Aircraft Background:
>> >
>> > - RV6 with O-320 B2B (160 HP)
>> > - ~150 hours on aircraft and engine
>> > - Ed Sterba Wood Prop
>> > - ElectroAir Ignition + 1 mag
>> > - "Harmonic Balancer" Ring
>> > - Conical Mount
>> >
>> >
>> > Checked to date (not necessarily in this order):
>> >
>> > 1. Electronic ignition ... verified and replaced
>> > (including a couple of
>> > cracked plugs and wires) <thanks Jeff>... NO JOY
>> > 2. Prop re-balanced and blade angles re-checked
>> > <thanks Ed>... NO JOY
>> > 3. Engine mount sag ... "washered up" and snugged up
>> > ... NO JOY
>> > 4. Ring removed and engine run with just prop ... NO
>> > JOY
>> > 5. Earlier dynamic balancing of prop ... NO JOY
>> > 6. Timing ... all checked and reset ... NO JOY
>> > 7. Prop "tracked" to ~ 1/16" (Ed's book says to get
>> > within 1/8")
>> >
>> >
>> > Did notice in the archives a case of engine mounts
>> > being replaced solved a
>> > vibration problem after the person had gone through
>> > a similar list of things
>> > but it just *seems* that we have a problem
>> > elsewhere.
>> >
>> > We are at the point of taking the plane to a
>> > "trusted" shop
>> > ("professionals") for further (engine related)
>> > analysis but I figured it
>> > could not hurt to get the view of those on the list
>> > with significant
>> > experience.
>> >
>> > ==> (????) Do any of you listers have any idea as to
>> > what *might* be going
>> > on here? Although I have just a few more, I am
>> > running out of things to
>> > check.
>> >
>> > If you have some insight into matters like this, and
>> > prefer to contact me
>> > "off-list", please do so at
>> > james@nextupventures.com. Later I will summarize
>> > the findings to the list.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > James
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Contributions
>> > any other
>> > Forums.
>> >
>> > latest messages.
>> > List members.
>> >
>> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
>> > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
>> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 10
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Thanks Glenn.
Comments below.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:14 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
>
>
> four suggestions from me:
>
> 1: Have you checked the firewall to engine mount bolt torque? If engine is
> on, take a hoist to remove the load and recheck your firewall to engine
> mount torque.
Have NOT checked the torque on those bolts. We did (as mentioned) re-do the
bolts that go through the conical mounts.
>
> 2. It is possible that you have recieved some badly manufactured isolation
> mounts(dynofocal or conical). Or they may have been damaged during
> installation. It would be a good idea to get these replaced while you are
> checking the firewall torque, if there is any doubt.
This is one of the things on the list. We did have some sag and fixed that
but at the time we did not assume that they may have been bad and in need of
replacement. A note from 1998 in the archives mentioned that such a
replacement solved the problem one person had in this area.
>
> 3. It is extremely possible that you have some part of the engine touching
> part of the cowl/firewall area. If so this would set up airframe
> vibration.
> check your cowls for any discoloration on the inside with the exception of
> the rubber baffle area there should be no part of the engine that is hard
> attached touching any part of the cowl or firewall.
Haven't seen anything out of the ordinary in this area.
>
> 4. Check the piano hinge areas for cracking or deformation. These are
> sometimes hard to see but a good visual inspection will reveal if any of
> the eyes are broken causing the cowling to buffet, while airborne.
Haven't seen anything out of order here either. Also, the *feels* is more
like vibration from the engine/prop as opposed to something else "rattling".
>
> NOTE: I do not know how much time you have on your aircraft. These
> suggestions are based on aircraft I have seen with a little time on them
> and are based on the fact that all engine parameters are within normal
> reange.
The plane has about 150 hours. The oil temp is in the 190-200 range on 80+
degree days down low. Once up and in cruise, it is more like 185-190.
EGT/CHT seems to be low to me ~1200/300 +/- 25.
>
> Regards
> Glenn Williams
> A&P
> Fort Worth, Texas
> 8A N81GW
> Finishing
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: JDaniel343@aol.com
How many of the list members are attending the Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In in
Longmont, CO. this weekend?
There usually is a large contingent of RV's that show up as well as one of Vans
demo planes. This is the FLy-Ins 25th anniversary and the event is trying to
get as many past show plane winners to come.
There used to be a large barbacue for the RV people at one of the hangers. I don't
know if that is still happening or not, please let us know if it is.
Hope to see you there.
John Danielson
RV-6 155 HRS.
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Rudder Stiffener Tooling Marks? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Andy Karmy <andy@karmy.com>
Hey Scott,
Those notch shaped holes are the cut holes for you to use to taper and
round the stiffeners. You take your ruler and draw a line between them
and cut with snips. One end of the stiffener should be tapered quite a
bit and the other end blunt.
As for the bent flange, one side has them on the bottom and one side
has them on the top. That way when the skins come together they clear
each other.
lastly, Simply hold the stiffener in place for the first hole. Drill by
hand, cleco into the table. Then move it in to place and drill the
other end and cleco that one. Then you can go down the line and drill
and cleco the rest.
- Andy Karmy
RV9A (with 2 rudders now!)
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
Stupid question...I have a 7A kit and am building the new 9
rudder.=A0=A0The stiffeners
have three oval-shaped holes (middle and both ends) at the bend radius.
They also have a two half-notches on the side (one on each side).=A0=A0Are
these tooling
marks?=A0=A0I am assuming so, as I did not see any mention in the plans.
Also...in looking at other's webpages...I assume when mounting the
stiffeners that
the flange (part that sticks out) does on the bottom (wider) side of
the rudder
on both sides?=A0=A0It's hard to tell from the plans.
It makes mention in the plans to just drill and cleco into your
workbench (if possible).
That's great for Clecoing already drilled holes, but it doesn't do
you any good for the initial cleco setup (prior to drilling).=A0=A0Do you
just cleco
as normal (with the work resting on cleco tips) until your start
drilling?
Am I missing something here?
Thanks,
Scott
7A Emp
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
i'll be there on sunday but i'll be driving there from pueblo as opposed to
flying.
Looks like great weather is forecasted.
lucky
do not archive
>From: JDaniel343@aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:52:07 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: JDaniel343@aol.com
>
>How many of the list members are attending the Rocky Mountain Regional
>Fly-In in Longmont, CO. this weekend?
>There usually is a large contingent of RV's that show up as well as one of
>Vans demo planes. This is the FLy-Ins 25th anniversary and the event is
>trying to get as many past show plane winners to come.
>There used to be a large barbacue for the RV people at one of the hangers.
>I don't know if that is still happening or not, please let us know if it
>is.
>Hope to see you there.
>
>John Danielson
>RV-6 155 HRS.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
06/25/2003 10:48:24 AM
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
Is the engine new or overhauled? Have you checked the spinner and attach
hardware? Is the spinner true? Also have the prop bolts been torqued?
another thing to check is
vibration could be coming through numerous sources and feel like they are
coming from somewhere else. I would check several items
wheel pants and leg fairings
wing to fuselage attach fairings
baffling security
I hope this helps you
Glenn
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: prop spacer thanks |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Chris: What pitch did you have and what did you change to?
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
Message 16
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| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: "zilik@direcpc.com" <zilik@direcpc.com>
My guess is 5. Heck I don't know. I do know I'll be there. The gentleman
that hosted the barbacue no longer owns a hangar at the airport so no RV
lunch that I know of.
If you do come please read the arrival procedures this year as there is a
temporary FAA control tower in effect. Tower frequency is 120.525
http://www.rmrfi.org/2003RMRFITowerProcedures.htm for more information
Gary Zilik
N99PZ
>How many of the list members are attending the Rocky Mountain Regional
Fly-In >in Longmont, CO. this weekend?
>There usually is a large contingent of RV's that show up as well as one of
>Vans demo planes. This is the FLy-Ins 25th anniversary and the event is
>trying to get as many past show plane winners to come.
>There used to be a large barbacue for the RV people at one of the hangers.
I >don't know if that is still happening or not, please let us know if it
is.
>Hope to see you there.
>John Danielson
>RV-6 155 HRS.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Stiffener Tooling Marks? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 11:11 PM 6/24/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
>
>
>Stupid question...I have a 7A kit and am building the new 9 rudder. The
>stiffeners have three oval-shaped holes (middle and both ends) at the bend
>radius. They also have a two half-notches on the side (one on each
>side). Are these tooling marks? I am assuming so, as I did not see any
>mention in the plans.
These are marks to guide your cuts. Kind of like "connect the dots."
It puzzled me for awhile too. I think it is mentioned somewhere in
the plans or instructions, but it is not at all obvious without close
study. I figured out what these notches were all about when I started
marking the stiffeners for trimming. Then it became very obvious.
Since you are working on the rudder now, you will soon be working
on the elevator. For the elevator, read the stiffener trim instructions
several times before proceeding. Then lay out the marked, but un-trimmed,
stiffeners on the elevator skins to make sure that have everything marked
correctly before you trim or match-drill any of the stiffeners.
>Also...in looking at other's webpages...I assume when mounting the
>stiffeners that the flange (part that sticks out) does on the bottom
>(wider) side of the rudder on both sides? It's hard to tell from the plans.
Yes, that is correct. Also, be sure to fully drive the last rivet,
nearest to the trailing edge, all the way (and maybe a little more).
>It makes mention in the plans to just drill and cleco into your workbench
>(if possible). That's great for Clecoing already drilled holes, but it
>doesn't do you any good for the initial cleco setup (prior to
>drilling). Do you just cleco as normal (with the work resting on cleco
>tips) until your start drilling? Am I missing something here?
Drill one hole, then place a Cleco. Then drill another hole.....
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
The free Garmin 430/530 simulators available from www.Garmin.com appear to have the Raim prediction enabled.
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | IFR and TSO'd instruments ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
No, the instruments do not have to be TSO'd.
I just had my Velocity static and transponder systems certified by a local avionics
shop for IFR use. I have a Rocky Mountain
uEncoder (I built it from the kit) which provides the gray code altitude for the
Garmin transponder. I also have non TSO'd
altimeter, and airspeed. No problem. All worked fine and met the accuracy requirements
so it got signed off.
If the instance where the shop replaced all of the instruments just because they
weren't TSO'd rather than they weren't meeting
accuracy requirements, I'd go back and get my old instruments back and demand a
refund or at least educate the shop.
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Best Stops to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown@wmca.net>
When we flew to OSH a couple of years ago, a friend recommended stopping at Mitchell,
SD. We did and were not disappointed. A guy came RUNNING out to the plane,
tied it down before we could get out...loaned us a courtesy car. While
we were gone, it started raining and they came out and put our plane in a hangar...great
family run operation, beautiful facilities, camping OK. You can't
miss the exclusive aircraft tug which has its own garage...Plus a beautiful RV6
lives there and likes visitors. Another great spot is Custer, SD. we camped
there and the FBO manager gave us the keys to the FBO which has showers, TV,
etc...
Bob/Karen Brown
RV7A wiring&panel
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | High compression Pistons |
--> RV-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Anyone know the part numbers for high compresion pistons for the O320 E2G
engine? I believe it is a wide deck. I am looking for HC pistons of either
9.5 or 10:1.
Thanks
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: prop spacer thanks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "chris m" <vhmum@bigpond.com>
I had a79 and changed to 81...Going flying today to check it out.
Our RV6 is very light and straight with a bart 0320 160 horse. At 12500ft it
would just be over the 2600 limit.
Shall see today if I should have gone with 80??
All fun
Chris and Susie
VH-MUM
----- Original Message -----
From: <HCRV6@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: prop spacer thanks
> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
> Chris: What pitch did you have and what did you change to?
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, firewall forward
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: High compression Pistons |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Not sure of the part number but here is the source.
http://www.lycon.com/nfs.htm
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,294 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: <315@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: High compression Pistons
--> RV-List message posted by: <315@cox.net>
Anyone know the part numbers for high compresion pistons for the O320 E2G
engine? I believe it is a wide deck. I am looking for HC pistons of either
9.5 or 10:1.
Thanks
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR and TSO'd instruments ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
I would supoort what ronnie said. The reg says that the encoder and
instruments must meet the TSO requirements, but it does not say they must
have a TSO or be TSO'd. If the instruemtns meets the requriements for the
inspection then it can be assumed that they meet the TSO. This is a
position that I have researched and now take.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
>From: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: IFR and TSO'd instruments ??
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:58:06 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>
>No, the instruments do not have to be TSO'd.
>
>I just had my Velocity static and transponder systems certified by a local
>avionics shop for IFR use. I have a Rocky Mountain
>uEncoder (I built it from the kit) which provides the gray code altitude
>for the Garmin transponder. I also have non TSO'd
>altimeter, and airspeed. No problem. All worked fine and met the accuracy
>requirements so it got signed off.
>
>If the instance where the shop replaced all of the instruments just because
>they weren't TSO'd rather than they weren't meeting
>accuracy requirements, I'd go back and get my old instruments back and
>demand a refund or at least educate the shop.
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Looking for Cargo Trailer to move RV-6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant@sw.rr.com>
To all:
I am going to have to move across the country next month, and that
will necessitate moving my RV-6 project. Since I will also need storage
at my new home, and because renting a U-Haul one-way seems to be very
expensive, I am now in the market for a cargo trailer. Used cargo
trailers seem to be rather scarce, so if anyone has or knows of a 20' or
better enclosed cargo trailer for sale, I would appreciate the lead. Of
course, I live in Texas so it would have to be within reasonable driving
distance.
Thanks everyone,
Jordan Grant
RV-6 N198G
Mounting cowling
Only indirectly RV-related, so DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Raim Prediction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>
>The free Garmin 430/530 simulators available from www.Garmin.com
>appear to have the Raim prediction enabled.
>
Yeah, but the predictions won't be worth anything because the
simulator won't be receiving the info on satellite status and orbits
that a real receiver gets from the satellites.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for Cargo Trailer to move RV-6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com
Jordan,
I moved my RV-4 from Alabama to Oregon 6 years ago. What I did was purchase
a brand new Haul Mark trailer. I found that they are made in the South and
can be purchased far cheaper than out West. I used it for 3 months and then
sold it for $100 more than I paid for it. I crated the wings and stored them
under the fuselage which was on the gear with no engine yet. I wrapped the plane
in foam and packed all our stuff that would not fit in the moving truck
around the plane. In 2500 miles the plane did not get one scratch.
My wife even drove our pickup truck pulling it all the way to Oregon, and yes
I still here about it.
Rob Hickman
N401RH RV-4 250+ Hours
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 28
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| Subject: | RE: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
Sorry, I don't remember exactly where the leak was. It seems like it was in a
threaded fitting, possibly a fitting with a threaded plug. It was an RV-6 and
it took a while to figure out what was going on. It would also miss and stumble
on the ground until the engine cooled down.
I don't know how to find an induction leak, and would also appreciate anyone's
advice on that topic.
Jeff Bertsch
RV-4
Subject: RE: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...From: James E. Clark
(james@nextupventures.com)Date: Wed Jun 25 - 6:37 AM
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>Thanks Jeff,Induction leak has been mentioned and I did take a look at the clamps aroundthe hoses connecting the sump to the induction pipes.Do you know exactly where you friend's induction leak occurred?Do you (or anyone on the list) know if there is some "tell-tale" sign thatmakes it easy to determine if there is a leak? I took a clean paper towelwith alchohol on it and wiped around the pipes as I was told or readsomewhere that sometimes there might be a blue stain (fuel dye) if there wassuch a leak.Again, thanks.James> -----Original Message-----> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Bertsch> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:50 AM> To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>>> A friend had a problem with an engine miss that caused>
roughness. It was caused by an induction leak. The> trick was that the leak
did not start until the engine> heated up and the "crack" expanded.> This sounds
like what you are experiencing too.> I hope this helps.>> Jeff Bertsch> RV-4>
--- "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> wrote:> > --> RV-List message
posted by: "James E. Clark"> > <james@nextupventures.com>> >> > HELP ...> >>
> Our RV has a bit of "the shakes" and I cannot seem> > to find out why. When
the> > plane is first started, it is barely there and it> > seems to deliver
power as> > expected.> >> > But, after about 5-10 minutes of flight, I can feel>
> the vibes 'a coming on.> > Subtle, but there.> >> > It does NOT go away.
It exists at all RPMs though> > seemingly more so at some> > and maybe a bit
less with a throttle back/nose down> > condition of "less> > load". In other
words it **seems** be maybe power> > related and not just> > rotational but I
cannot say that for sure.> >> > The cylinder head temps and
exhaust gas temps seem> > low to me (CHT in the low> > 300's and EGTs about 1200).
The oil temp is around> > 190-200 with OAT about> > 80-90 degress F. Have
tried different leanings and> > carb heat settings> > without any change.> >>
>> > Aircraft Background:> >> > - RV6 with O-320 B2B (160 HP)> > - ~150 hours
on aircraft and engine> > - Ed Sterba Wood Prop> > - ElectroAir Ignition + 1
mag> > - "Harmonic Balancer" Ring> > - Conical Mount> >> >> > Checked to date
(not necessarily in this order):> >> > 1. Electronic ignition ... verified and
replaced> > (including a couple of> > cracked plugs and wires) <thanks Jeff>...
NO JOY> > 2. Prop re-balanced and blade angles re-checked> > <thanks Ed>...
NO JOY> > 3. Engine mount sag ... "washered up" and snugged up> > ... NO JOY>
> 4. Ring removed and engine run with just prop ... NO> > JOY> > 5. Earlier dynamic
balancing of prop ... NO JOY> > 6. Timing ... all checked and reset ...
NO JOY> > 7. Prop "tracked" to ~ 1/16" (Ed's book says to
get> > within 1/8")> >> >> > Did notice in the archives a case of engine mounts>
> being replaced solved a> > vibration problem after the person had gone through>
> a similar list of things> > but it just *seems* that we have a problem>
> elsewhere.> >> > We are at the point of taking the plane to a> > "trusted"
shop> > ("professionals") for further (engine related)> > analysis but I figured
it> > could not hurt to get the view of those on the list> > with significant>
> experience.> >> > ==> (????) Do any of you listers have any idea as to>
> what *might* be going> > on here? Although I have just a few more, I am> >
running out of things to> > check.> >> > If you have some insight into matters
like this, and> > prefer to contact me> > "off-list", please do so at> > james@nextupventures.com.
Later I will summarize> > the findings to the list.> >>
>> > Thanks,> >> > James
---------------------------------
Message 29
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| Subject: | "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Thanks Glenn.
The engine is overhauled.
No change in the spinner since first flight, so I think it is basically
true.
Prop bolts have been torqued (prop removed a few times)
I have noticed that one of the wheel pants is a little more loose than the
other so I guess that is something to check and tighten up.
Baffling seems fine.
Again, thanks.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:15 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: "All Shook Up" ... and in search of help ...
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
>
>
> Is the engine new or overhauled? Have you checked the spinner and attach
> hardware? Is the spinner true? Also have the prop bolts been torqued?
>
> another thing to check is
>
> vibration could be coming through numerous sources and feel like they are
> coming from somewhere else. I would check several items
>
> wheel pants and leg fairings
>
> wing to fuselage attach fairings
>
> baffling security
>
> I hope this helps you
>
> Glenn
>
>
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