Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - RAIM Prediction (Ronnie Brown)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 Encoder Question (N223RV@aol.com)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: RAIM Prediction (Kevin Horton)
4. 10:15 AM - Re: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs (Gert)
5. 10:26 AM - Re: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs (Gert)
6. 10:53 AM - Re: RAIM Prediction (Jim Oke)
7. 11:40 AM - Re: RAIM Prediction (Chris W)
8. 11:55 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 Encoder Question (LarryRobertHelming)
9. 12:13 PM - Re: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs (Gert)
10. 12:33 PM - Wing Tip Lockers (John Starn)
11. 02:14 PM - [ John Starn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
12. 02:37 PM - [ John Starn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
13. 03:23 PM - CORRECTION ...flare fittings torque - and link to good tech. (Emrath)
14. 05:40 PM - Electrical question (Doug Weiler)
15. 06:11 PM - Alternator Belt (Jim Bean)
16. 07:11 PM - Re: Electrical question (Cy Galley)
17. 07:14 PM - Re: Alternator Belt (Ed Perry)
18. 07:25 PM - Re: Electrical question (Gert)
19. 07:26 PM - >Re:Electrical Question (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
20. 07:33 PM - Re: Electrical question (Vanremog@aol.com)
21. 08:56 PM - Re: Electrical question (Doug Weiler)
22. 10:05 PM - RV-List (smoothweasel@juno.com)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
You're correct about the health of the satellites, but I don't think that is
the major problem. The biggest problem for IFR RAIM approach predictions is
that the satellites are not in a good geometry for the FAA required accuracy
for approaches. You can get reasonable GPS position even if there is a RAIM
warning - especially if you have your GPS antenna located such that is
seeing the whole sky. In 600 hours of flying with a Garmin 95 hand held, I
have only lost GPS position three times, which is pretty good considering
the 95 has pretty old GPS receiver technology (single channel) and the
antenna was mounted on the windshield and a lot of sky was blocked by my
Cessna 172's wings.
And I would guess the RAIM predictions in the simulator are probably based
on predicted satellite geometry - which is known well in advance - like
years. However I have not confirmed the simulator with my Garmin 430. Next
time I see a RAIM error in my 430, I'll come back and check the simulator
and see if it agrees and let you know.
By the way, you're not considering using a hand held to do approaches with
are you? - Shame on you! ( ;>)
Ronnie Brown
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon D-10 Encoder Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
All this is great, but no one answered my original question. See below, any
thoughts? Should I use my stand alone encoder or go with Dynon's?
Thanks!
-Mike
> My Dynon D-10 is supposed to be shipped this week (FYI, I'm order #199). I
>
> have a question about the included encoder. Is anyone flying using the
> Dynon
> encoder? If so, how does it work (good, bad, needed adjustment, etc.).
>
> I am contemplating whether to keep my stand alone encoder, or remove it and
> just utilize the Dynon's built in encoder.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RAIM Prediction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>
>You're correct about the health of the satellites, but I don't think that is
>the major problem. The biggest problem for IFR RAIM approach predictions is
>that the satellites are not in a good geometry for the FAA required accuracy
>for approaches. You can get reasonable GPS position even if there is a RAIM
>warning - especially if you have your GPS antenna located such that is
>seeing the whole sky. In 600 hours of flying with a Garmin 95 hand held, I
>have only lost GPS position three times, which is pretty good considering
>the 95 has pretty old GPS receiver technology (single channel) and the
>antenna was mounted on the windshield and a lot of sky was blocked by my
>Cessna 172's wings.
>
Ronnie probably understands that the RAIM function can produce at
least two very different kinds of RAIM warnings, but I'll mention it
just to be sure that no one misinterprets his message.
The GPS receiver needs a certain minimum number of satellites
available so can determine its position (it needs four satellites if
the geometry is perfect, more than that if the geometry is not so
good). If it has extra satellites available it can use the
additional information to do the RAIM function. The RAIM function
calculates the position using different combinations of the available
satellites. If all satellites are putting out good info, all these
position calculations should match within a small tolerance. If one
or more satellites is putting out bad info, these different position
calculations will be all over the map, and the receiver will give a
"Position Integrity" warning (or some similar wording), and it may
flag the output to the CDI. This message should not be ignored, as
it means the GPS position is quite probably in error.
Usually the GPS system is putting out good info, and the receiver
will give a good position, even if it does not have enough satellites
to do the RAIM function (this is the situation that Ronnie was
referring too). In this case it will give a "RAIM Not Available"
message (or some similar wording).
Unfortunately each GPS manufacturer has their own wording for the
various messages. Some of the wording can be confusing if the user
does not understand how the RAIM function works. For example, my
GNS-430 has a "RAIM is not available" message, and a "RAIM position
warning" message. The "RAIM position warning" message corresponds to
the "Position Integrity" message that I mentioned earlier.
GPS users need to clearly understand the difference in meaning
between the various RAIM related messages that their GPS receiver can
generate.
>And I would guess the RAIM predictions in the simulator are probably based
>on predicted satellite geometry - which is known well in advance - like
>years. However I have not confirmed the simulator with my Garmin 430. Next
>time I see a RAIM error in my 430, I'll come back and check the simulator
>and see if it agrees and let you know.
>
There are spare GPS satellites in orbit, waiting to replace
satellites that fail. The GPS prediction in the simulators wouldn't
know when a satellite has failed and been replaced by another
satellite. And it wouldn't know when new satellites are launched, or
old ones are decommissioned. Using the RAIM prediction from a GPS
simulator would be like using the Farmers' Almanac to check weather
for your cross country flight.
http://164.214.2.59/GandG/sathtml/satinfo.html
http://www.farmersalmanac.com/weather/weather.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
I am 6'6" and genreally wear a straw hat. Then there is my fellow
compadre and brother in arms Jeff, who is just a hair or two shorter
than I am who mans the point with me.
We always appreciate a smile and a wave, we even appreciate constructive
feedback as we are not without fault either. If we could improve, change
or otherwise help you, come on up and tell us. If at all possible we'll
accomodate you. In the end, Jeff and I are both RVers too.
of course, better yet, come on over to our campsite and have a beer or
two with us. We tend to camp around the childrens pavilion by the red
barn. Yer all welcome to stop by.
Gert
Larry Bowen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
>
> Will do, Gert. Thanks for the reminder. And shame on those folks that
> are less than nice to the volunteers.
>
> I'll make up a sign that says "Hi Gert" too. How can we recognize you?
>
> -
> LB
> Do not archive
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert
>>Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 10:38 PM
>>To: rv-list; rv8list@egroups.com
>>Subject: RV-List: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs
>>
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
>>
>>Fellow RVers
>>
>>If you plan on flying into OSHKOSH during the convention,
>>please, please
>> read the NOTAMS *AND* prepare a *READABLE* sign for the
>>people on the
>>ground to direct you.
>>
>>If not, you will be stopped by about everybody with an orange vest to
>>ask where you want to go. It has become highly frustrating
>>for me and my
>>colleagues to be mouthed off by yet another fellow RVer, or other
>>pilots, as to why #$%$%% everybody is stoppen them, can't
>>they tell it's
>>an RV. Well yes, but some go parking, some go camping,
>>different ends of
>>18-36 ya know.
>>
>>You can use the 3 letter designated in the NOTAM or just
>>write "parking"
>>or "camping". anything which remotely makes sence will get
>>you were you
>>want to go and help us from not having to come near your propellor.
>>
>>Now, I say fellow RVers here because I work at the
>>intersection (North
>>point) by the trimotor and the warbirds, the last spot to
>>sort out RVs
>>from going in the wrong direction, and so we stop every RV without a
>>sign there. Some RV folks last year got rather vocal about
>>being stopped
>>calling names and swearwords, but hey, they didn't need a darn sign,
>>they knew where they were going, great for them, but we
>>didn't and OSH
>>changes every year as far as parking is concerned.
>>
>>Then of course there are the pilots bragging that in the
>>10-12-20 years,
>>pick your time, they have flown into Scare Venture, they have never
>>needed no stinking NOTAM.
>>
>>Readable means at least a 8x11 inch sheet with big FAT readable
>>lettering. a 2x2 sticky note on the inside of a tinted
>>canopee does not
>>cut it. This year the ground crew will be armed with 5x8" notes, with
>>extra small print saying "I can't read yours either".
>>
>>If and when the RV's will park again in the same place, what we call
>>"area 51" and "The skunk works", please don't forget the
>>taxiway leading
>>up to those areas is a one-way street. if somebody is coming
>>out we have
>>to stop all traffic going in. This means we'll stop you in
>>the throat of
>>the warbird area till the road is clear. Please don't ignore us, flip
>>the finger, and continue on anyway, you might find yourself
>>head to head
>>with the P-51's (or trimotor, etc). (happened last year) You'll loose
>>and have to make a U turn and come back out. Major loss of face !!
>>
>>I will get of my soapbox now. I hope to see all of you taxing by with
>>that big smile, happy you made it safely. I just hope you'll do it
>>holding that (big) piece of paper up.
>>
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Gert
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Yeah, what Jeff forgot to stress is that the taxi way leading to these
parking areas is too narrow for 2 way traffic. so we constantly are
holding traffic on either side to accomodate flow. flow's only going to
increase.
Then of course, somebody hears a P51 start and panic ensues, as soon as
P51 starts, everything has to be sanitized....even if the guy sits there
ronking away for 10-15-30 minutes, take your pick. Shame on the poor
homebuild who happened to be taxing in or out. Whenever a P51 is
inconvienenced, poor P51 fellow has a 30 sec delay, we at NorthPoint
generally receive the brund of the whining and complaints. I appologize
in advance for those who are indeed understanding but some of them act
as if they own, sponsor and regulate the airshow. There seems to be next
to nill information flowing from the warbird area other than 'plane
coming out, sanitize and hold all traffic'. Questions like 'where does
he want to go??' or 'does he want 18-36 or 9-27 ??' are answered with a
shrug. Well excuse me but I can't read their minds, but if we point him
wrong all hell breaks loose.
I was a fair number of RVers who were pushed back off the taxiway last
year just because a P51 started intheir parking lot.
> Larry Bowen wrote:
> I'll make up a sign that says "Hi Gert" too. How can we recognize you?
>
> Easy. He's about six foot nineteen, wearing a straw hat, waving his arms
> about and yelling at you in a language you can't understand. Oh, and
> he's usually standing next to me.
Yup, that sums it about up ;-)
Thanks Jeff !!
>
> Rant Over. do not archive.
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 FWF
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RAIM Prediction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Without wanting to beat the RAIM horse too much longer, there is yet another
GPS position checking technique called "fault detection and exclusion". In
Kevin's scenario below, one of the five satellites is bad but which one is
it? There are five ways of choosing the four satellites needed to get a
position, of which four combinations are going to include the bad satellite
and so give an erroneous position which will not be much help in narrowing
things down. But, what if there are six satellite available? Then you could
drop one sateliite at a time and do a RAIM integrity check on the remaining
five. If the RAIM check comes up OK, those five are "good" satellites and
then you repeat the process with another combination of five satellites. In
this method, there is some hope of identifying a bad satellite and removing
it from the position solution.
With FDE, the question then becomes "what is the largest position
uncertainty the system can tolerate and still identify a bad satellite?".
The uncertainty keeps changing as the satellite positions change. One name
given to this value is the "Horizontal Integrity Limit" or HIL. Some systems
keep constantly checking the HIL and provide a warning if the HIL exceeds
the value for the stage of flight (approaches need a tighter tolerance than
enroute for obvious reasons). In these systems doing a "RAIM Check" for a
future time and location means the system decides how big the HIL will be
then/there and will provide an alarm if the HIL is too large.
As Kevin says the expression RAIM is a bit generic and can mean different
things at different times regarding different GPS systems.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A (waiting for paper - but its raining today at YWG anyway...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RAIM Prediction
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
> >
> >You're correct about the health of the satellites, but I don't think that
is
> >the major problem. The biggest problem for IFR RAIM approach predictions
is
> >that the satellites are not in a good geometry for the FAA required
accuracy
> >for approaches. You can get reasonable GPS position even if there is a
RAIM
> >warning - especially if you have your GPS antenna located such that is
> >seeing the whole sky. In 600 hours of flying with a Garmin 95 hand held,
I
> >have only lost GPS position three times, which is pretty good considering
> >the 95 has pretty old GPS receiver technology (single channel) and the
> >antenna was mounted on the windshield and a lot of sky was blocked by my
> >Cessna 172's wings.
> >
> Ronnie probably understands that the RAIM function can produce at
> least two very different kinds of RAIM warnings, but I'll mention it
> just to be sure that no one misinterprets his message.
>
> The GPS receiver needs a certain minimum number of satellites
> available so can determine its position (it needs four satellites if
> the geometry is perfect, more than that if the geometry is not so
> good). If it has extra satellites available it can use the
> additional information to do the RAIM function. The RAIM function
> calculates the position using different combinations of the available
> satellites. If all satellites are putting out good info, all these
> position calculations should match within a small tolerance. If one
> or more satellites is putting out bad info, these different position
> calculations will be all over the map, and the receiver will give a
> "Position Integrity" warning (or some similar wording), and it may
> flag the output to the CDI. This message should not be ignored, as
> it means the GPS position is quite probably in error.
>
> Usually the GPS system is putting out good info, and the receiver
> will give a good position, even if it does not have enough satellites
> to do the RAIM function (this is the situation that Ronnie was
> referring too). In this case it will give a "RAIM Not Available"
> message (or some similar wording).
>
> Unfortunately each GPS manufacturer has their own wording for the
> various messages. Some of the wording can be confusing if the user
> does not understand how the RAIM function works. For example, my
> GNS-430 has a "RAIM is not available" message, and a "RAIM position
> warning" message. The "RAIM position warning" message corresponds to
> the "Position Integrity" message that I mentioned earlier.
>
> GPS users need to clearly understand the difference in meaning
> between the various RAIM related messages that their GPS receiver can
> generate.
>
> >And I would guess the RAIM predictions in the simulator are probably
based
> >on predicted satellite geometry - which is known well in advance - like
> >years. However I have not confirmed the simulator with my Garmin 430.
Next
> >time I see a RAIM error in my 430, I'll come back and check the simulator
> >and see if it agrees and let you know.
> >
>
> There are spare GPS satellites in orbit, waiting to replace
> satellites that fail. The GPS prediction in the simulators wouldn't
> know when a satellite has failed and been replaced by another
> satellite. And it wouldn't know when new satellites are launched, or
> old ones are decommissioned. Using the RAIM prediction from a GPS
> simulator would be like using the Farmers' Almanac to check weather
> for your cross country flight.
>
> http://164.214.2.59/GandG/sathtml/satinfo.html
> http://www.farmersalmanac.com/weather/weather.html
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RAIM Prediction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <chrisw3@cox.net>
One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that when the WAAS becomes
officially online next month, RAIM is no longer needed. The WAAS satellite will
transmit information on all the satellites and tell if any are bad and provide
correction data for all the satellites. So as long as the WAAS satellite is
being received you will know if you have a good signal. Of course you have to
have a WAAS capable receiver but I think most IFR GPS units should be upgradable
to WAAS. In case you didn't know, the WAAS will only be of use when in or near
the USA.
One thing I am curious about is what if you are landing at an airport in a
mountain valley? Your view of the WAAS satellite in synchronous orbit over the
equator, is low in the southern sky, especially for those flying up in
Washington or Alaska. Are there airports where you will lose the WAAS signal on
approach because of a neary by mountain to the south?
do not archive
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon D-10 Encoder Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
The Dynon will drive a transponder. If that is all you need, then you do
not need a separate encoder. If you want to drive a GPS or some other
device that needs something other than the gray code or you want to fly IFR
using encoder output, you will need an encoder like the Sandia that provides
the GPS code.
Hope this answers your question: Depends on what your needs are.
That is how I plan to approach this decision at this point with my current
knowledge.
Larry in Indiana, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360
Working on Finish Kit
Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But ..... is terribly
unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
..Author unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: <N223RV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10 Encoder Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
>
> All this is great, but no one answered my original question. See below,
any
> thoughts? Should I use my stand alone encoder or go with Dynon's?
> Thanks!
> -Mike
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Gary
Great idea....nothing sucks as much as having to chase your
airworthiness certificate and related pertinent documents along the
taxiway...yup, happened last year too. never saw an rv stop so quick,
shut down, the pilot jump out and run so fast ;-), we got it all back
though!
Thanks for the kind words, in the end the cranky asses are just blibs in
the landscape of happy memories of jobs well done. It's really our
pleasure to see so many RV's taxi by every year !!
Gert
RV6 Flyer wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Gert:
>
> Thanks for the reminder.
>
> I have been using a 3 ring View binder with all my NOTAM stuff in. Use MS
> Word in landscape to create an 8.5 X 11 sign with letters as large as I can
> make them to go in the cover. This binder keeps the paper from blowing
> around and has been large enough to see from a distance. Last year we flew
> in as a 4 ship and I made the signs for all the airplanes.
>
> Thanks for Volunteering. We that attend really appreciate all the fine work
> you guys do.
>
>
> Have a favor to ask of everyone that flys into Oshkosh AirVenture 2003.
> Every time you see a Volunteer, tell them "Thanks for Volunteering."
>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,294 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
> To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>, "rv8list@egroups.com"
> <rv8list@egroups.com>
> Subject: RV-List: OSH fly-in, NOTAMS and signs
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:38:01 -0500
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
>
> Fellow RVers
>
> If you plan on flying into OSHKOSH during the convention, please, please
> read the NOTAMS *AND* prepare a *READABLE* sign for the people on the
> ground to direct you.
>
> If not, you will be stopped by about everybody with an orange vest to
> ask where you want to go. It has become highly frustrating for me and my
> colleagues to be mouthed off by yet another fellow RVer, or other
> pilots, as to why #$%$%% everybody is stoppen them, can't they tell it's
> an RV. Well yes, but some go parking, some go camping, different ends of
> 18-36 ya know.
>
> You can use the 3 letter designated in the NOTAM or just write "parking"
> or "camping". anything which remotely makes sence will get you were you
> want to go and help us from not having to come near your propellor.
>
> Now, I say fellow RVers here because I work at the intersection (North
> point) by the trimotor and the warbirds, the last spot to sort out RVs
> from going in the wrong direction, and so we stop every RV without a
> sign there. Some RV folks last year got rather vocal about being stopped
> calling names and swearwords, but hey, they didn't need a darn sign,
> they knew where they were going, great for them, but we didn't and OSH
> changes every year as far as parking is concerned.
>
> Then of course there are the pilots bragging that in the 10-12-20 years,
> pick your time, they have flown into Scare Venture, they have never
> needed no stinking NOTAM.
>
> Readable means at least a 8x11 inch sheet with big FAT readable
> lettering. a 2x2 sticky note on the inside of a tinted canopee does not
> cut it. This year the ground crew will be armed with 5x8" notes, with
> extra small print saying "I can't read yours either".
>
> If and when the RV's will park again in the same place, what we call
> "area 51" and "The skunk works", please don't forget the taxiway leading
> up to those areas is a one-way street. if somebody is coming out we have
> to stop all traffic going in. This means we'll stop you in the throat of
> the warbird area till the road is clear. Please don't ignore us, flip
> the finger, and continue on anyway, you might find yourself head to head
> with the P-51's (or trimotor, etc). (happened last year) You'll loose
> and have to make a U turn and come back out. Major loss of face !!
>
> I will get of my soapbox now. I hope to see all of you taxing by with
> that big smile, happy you made it safely. I just hope you'll do it
> holding that (big) piece of paper up.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wing Tip Lockers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
WOW what a responce..... We, OK.... so Gummibear, have/has placed the file &
photos on the shared photos part of the list. 26 of you requested them so
far. For those of you who have the photos ya'll hereby have my permission to
use, re-use or put the likeness of any of the photos on t-shirts etc..etc..
8*) Do Not Archive BUT if you plan on using these photos for any use what
so ever you may want to "save" this e-mail. KABONG (GBA)
Message 11
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| Subject: | [ John Starn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: John Starn <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing Tip Storage Lockers
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jhstarn@earthlink.net.06.28.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | [ John Starn ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: John Starn <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing Tip Storage Lockers
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jhstarn@earthlink.net.06.28.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | CORRECTION ...flare fittings torque - and link to good tech. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Emrath <emrath@comcast.net>
Excellent!!!! Thanks Gil
Marty in Brentwood TN
Do Not Archive - it already is thanks to Gil
Time: 10:01:16 PM PST US
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: CORRECTION ...flare fittings torque - and link to
good tech.
document
--> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Sorry guys - correction to previous message
... the previous finger tight and then turn comment should have been
for
FLARELESS tubing fittings
http://www.avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING.html
The correct torque table for our FLARED fittings is in the center of the
page.
BTW this whole document is very useful, and should be book marked...
http://www.avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/
A lot of really good technical information is in this document.
gil in Tucson
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
Message 14
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| Subject: | Electrical question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
Fellow Listers:
Here's a question for the electrical experts out there...
My newly flown RV-4 has two wing-tip landing lights. These are the
Duckworth lights and I have 100W bulbs in them. By my calculations these
two lamps draw about 14 amps total (they are wired thru one switch and a 20
amp fuse.) Today I had the switch fail. It got hot and started putting out
very bad fumes and the terminal connections even melted (the fuse did not
blow). Anyway I bought all my switches from American Champion (they are
installed in their Citabrias). I specified that this particular landing
light switch should be rated for 20 amps. But it failed after 20 hours on
the airplane. But when I removed the damaged switch, I see that there are
no specs on it at all.
The other switches I have installed are different and have specs engraved on
the side. Here's what it reads:
10A 250V AC
15A 125V AC
3/4 HP 250V AC
1/2 HP 125V AC
4.2 AL 125V AC
It is a Cutler Hammer switch but I cannot find any model number on it.
So my question is: Do you think this switch would handle a 14 amp load of
my landing lights?
Doug Weiler
N22DW RV-4 (26 hours)
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Bean <jim-bean@att.net>
Listers,
Does anybody know of a source for the right size alternator belt for a
Lycoming IO360. Hopefully automotive or industrial. I hate to have to
pay Lycoming's price.
Local car mechanic matched the cross section but that size is not made
in very many lenghts, just too long and too short. Cars don't use
individual belts anymore.
Thanks Jim Bean
RV-8 engine room
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Using nominal 12 volts- current draw for both bulbs is almost 17 amps. Throw
in the tolerances and the cold rush current, you can easily exceed 20 amps.
You probably had a weak switch...tolerances again so I'd use a 25 amp rated
switch at least.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-List: Electrical question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Here's a question for the electrical experts out there...
>
> My newly flown RV-4 has two wing-tip landing lights. These are the
> Duckworth lights and I have 100W bulbs in them. By my calculations these
> two lamps draw about 14 amps total (they are wired thru one switch and a
20
> amp fuse.) Today I had the switch fail. It got hot and started putting
out
> very bad fumes and the terminal connections even melted (the fuse did not
> blow). Anyway I bought all my switches from American Champion (they are
> installed in their Citabrias). I specified that this particular landing
> light switch should be rated for 20 amps. But it failed after 20 hours on
> the airplane. But when I removed the damaged switch, I see that there are
> no specs on it at all.
>
> The other switches I have installed are different and have specs engraved
on
> the side. Here's what it reads:
>
> 10A 250V AC
> 15A 125V AC
> 3/4 HP 250V AC
> 1/2 HP 125V AC
> 4.2 AL 125V AC
>
> It is a Cutler Hammer switch but I cannot find any model number on it.
>
>
> So my question is: Do you think this switch would handle a 14 amp load of
> my landing lights?
>
>
> Doug Weiler
> N22DW RV-4 (26 hours)
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Belt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" <eperry@san.rr.com>
I went to PEP Boys and got a 33 1/2" fan belt.
Ed Perry
RV-8 IO-360-B1E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Bean" <jim-bean@att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Alternator Belt
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Bean <jim-bean@att.net>
>
> Listers,
> Does anybody know of a source for the right size alternator belt for a
> Lycoming IO360. Hopefully automotive or industrial. I hate to have to
> pay Lycoming's price.
> Local car mechanic matched the cross section but that size is not made
> in very many lenghts, just too long and too short. Cars don't use
> individual belts anymore.
> Thanks Jim Bean
> RV-8 engine room
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Doug
No, if it does not have any DC ratings, be very very wary.
you'll find that the DC rating for switches generally is less than if
you'd run the same switch on AC. This has to do with arc differences
between AC and DC. DC is much much harder on switch contacts.
the top rating below is for 15 amps on AC, I would NOT trust this switch
with 20 amps DC, irrespectable of voltage used.
But, in the end that's my opinion.
Gert
Doug Weiler wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Here's a question for the electrical experts out there...
>
> My newly flown RV-4 has two wing-tip landing lights. These are the
> Duckworth lights and I have 100W bulbs in them. By my calculations these
> two lamps draw about 14 amps total (they are wired thru one switch and a 20
> amp fuse.) Today I had the switch fail. It got hot and started putting out
> very bad fumes and the terminal connections even melted (the fuse did not
> blow). Anyway I bought all my switches from American Champion (they are
> installed in their Citabrias). I specified that this particular landing
> light switch should be rated for 20 amps. But it failed after 20 hours on
> the airplane. But when I removed the damaged switch, I see that there are
> no specs on it at all.
>
> The other switches I have installed are different and have specs engraved on
> the side. Here's what it reads:
>
> 10A 250V AC
> 15A 125V AC
> 3/4 HP 250V AC
> 1/2 HP 125V AC
> 4.2 AL 125V AC
>
> It is a Cutler Hammer switch but I cannot find any model number on it.
>
>
> So my question is: Do you think this switch would handle a 14 amp load of
> my landing lights?
>
>
> Doug Weiler
> N22DW RV-4 (26 hours)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: >Re:Electrical Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
You need to get a switch with adequate DC rating for the load. AC ratings
aren't appropiate for DC loads.
If you use an AC switch,it should probably have a capacity twice the rating
for your DC load.
Best solution= get a switch rated DC load slightly more than your load.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 6/28/2003 5:41:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dougweil@pressenter.com writes:
> My newly flown RV-4 has two wing-tip landing lights. These are the
> Duckworth lights and I have 100W bulbs in them. By my calculations these
> two lamps draw about 14 amps total (they are wired thru one switch and a 20
> amp fuse.) Today I had the switch fail. It got hot and started putting out
> very bad fumes and the terminal connections even melted (the fuse did not
> blow).
These really should be controlled via relay (one if you always use them both
together, or two if you want to actuate them independently-I have a split
switch for normal steady state ops and a parallel wig-wag circuit for visibility
enhancement) both of which work thru two relays. There are all kinds out there
with a 30A rating in auto land used for connecting up high wattage auxiliary
lamps. The cheap plastic ones are crap, but I've used the NTE brand that I
think Digikey carries with a good service history.
They are available with a metal mounting bracket and are easy to install with
a single 10-32 fastener and slip-on flag terminals. Don't make the switch do
this work, as you are only asking for continuing issues no matter whose
switch you may put in. Use a relay.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 609hrs)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
>
> These really should be controlled via relay (one if you always use them
both
> together, or two if you want to actuate them independently-I have a split
> switch for normal steady state ops and a parallel wig-wag circuit for
visibility
> enhancement) both of which work thru two relays. There are all kinds out
there
> with a 30A rating in auto land used for connecting up high wattage
auxiliary
> lamps. The cheap plastic ones are crap, but I've used the NTE brand that
I
> think Digikey carries with a good service history.
>
> They are available with a metal mounting bracket and are easy to install
with
> a single 10-32 fastener and slip-on flag terminals. Don't make the switch
do
> this work, as you are only asking for continuing issues no matter whose
> switch you may put in. Use a relay.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV 609hrs)
>
Thanks for all the good advice. I think you are right. It's interesting in
that these switches which only list AC ratings are being used in an
FAA-certified aircraft (the American Champion line).
For the time being, I'm going to keep flying my test time off and probably
rewire the lights using a relay.
Thanks again
Doug
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
I am considering bying a RV-4 that is about ready
to fly. Would I be able to get this plane regesterd considering that I
would not have been the builder of "51%" of it? What if the previous
owner is unwilling to regester it in his name. I am usuming that there
is a way to do this because what if a owner of a 99% completed kit would
die?
Considering RV-4
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