Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:35 AM - Re: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
2. 02:57 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Kevin Horton)
3. 05:10 AM - Re: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop (Pat Perry)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Sam Buchanan)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function (lucky macy)
6. 07:27 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Brad Benson)
7. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted (Vanremog@aol.com)
8. 08:08 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 (lm4@juno.com)
9. 08:16 AM - Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function (Neil McLeod)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: Engine input-Please (Eustace Bowhay)
11. 09:11 AM - Re: Garmin 196 in panel bring home (WPAerial@aol.com)
12. 09:23 AM - Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function (Steve Allison)
13. 09:50 AM - Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
14. 09:51 AM - Re: RV-Panel (Jim Cimino)
15. 10:42 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Kevin Horton)
16. 11:22 AM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Joshua Siler)
17. 04:00 PM - Instrament Panels (Bobby Hester)
18. 06:44 PM - Re: Dynon D-10 (Paul Besing)
19. 08:35 PM - Dynon D-10 First Flight (Doug Rozendaal)
20. 08:50 PM - RV's and Mexico (Parker Thomas)
21. 10:53 PM - very basic rivet question (rpmiller)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted |
tests=AWL,BAYES_01,NO_REAL_NAME,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,
QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_IN_WHITELIST
autolearn=ham version=2.53
--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
Nice formation pictures Lucy.
I believe the other guys are the 3C's from the Leesburg VA area huh?
And guys, don't forget to put the obligatory "do not archive" in your posts
and replies! None of these replies had it.
Mike Stewart
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: lucky macy [mailto:luckymacy@hotmail.com]
Subject: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
I put some RV p-40 pics at
http://hometown.aol.com/rv8ter/page2.html
>From: "Aaron Zeff" <aaronzeff@hotmail.com>
>To: luckymacy@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:41:12 +0000
>
>Lucky,
>
>How can I get a view of the P-40 scheme RV-8?
>
>Thanks,
>Naked RV-8
>
>
>>From: "lucky macy" <>
>>Reply-To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
>>To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:32:50 -0400
>>
>>http://hometown.aol.com/rv8ter/myhomepage/index.html
>>
>>here's the picture. They were all 3 painted a little differently on
>>purpose
>>as they were still experimenting with details like the different sizes of
>>Stars and Bars. I like the closest one's Stars and Bars best. The others
>>are too small, I think. All of these planes have been updated and look a
>>little better now and I think I have varous updated pictures though maybe
>>not in formation like this.
>>
>>There's also a flying tigers P-40 with shark teeth scheme in the mix too.
>>
>>I'll post a few more if I find some good ones.
>>
>>
>> >From: "Danny King" <danny.king@charter.net>
>> >Reply-To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
>> >To: <rv8list@yahoogroups.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
>> >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:25:30 -0500
>> >
>> >Lucky,
>> >I'd like to see that picture too!
>> >Danny
>> >danny.king@charter.net
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: lucky macy
>> > To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com ; azeff@priorityparking.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:52 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's three 8's in a WWII D-day invasion scheme flying formation.
>> >There is
>> > a "squadron" of them around the PA/MD area. Maybe up to 8 or 9
>>painted
>> >this
>> > way now?
>> >
>> > Anyway, they look very good. RV8 is a poor man's P-51. No Axis paint
>> > schemes yet but I'd be tempted with all the *allied targets* flying
>> >around
>> > here :-)
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: "azeff2000" <azeff@priorityparking.com>
>> > >Reply-To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
>> > >To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
>> > >Subject: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
>> > >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:21:15 -0000
>> > >
>> > >Help! RV-8 Needs Paint.
>> > >
>> > >After building and flying my unpainted RV-8 for over 75 hours, I
>> > >still haven't determened the appropriate scheme. I've untilized
>> > >schemedesigners, friends, family, ect. From considering the P-40 to
>> > >the F-4 Phantom I am still undecided. Any thoughts or ideas would
>>be
>> > >appreciated. Does any other builder have a scheme that they wish
>> > >they did or should have done? Make my day!!
>> > >
>> > >Regards,
>> > >A Naked RV-8
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ADVERTISEMENT
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
>> >
>> > IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO :
>> >
>> > rv8list-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>Control Hunger EZ with fast acting oral EZ Appetite Suppressant Spray
>>from VitaminBoost.com. 1 Month Supply - 2oz., 80 sprays: $19.97.
>>http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2866&lp=ezappetite3.html
>>http://us.click.yahoo.com/aSJFwB/XWXGAA/ySSFAA/1yWplB/TM
>>
>>Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
>>
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>
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>Paul Besing wrote:
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
>>
>> I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start
>> flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument
>> (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary
>> attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds.
>
>
>Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the
>Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them
>unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground
>is...........useless.
>
>I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though
>is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when
>subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the
>Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one.
>But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown
>actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That
>will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with
the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a
cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is
really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS
fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial
panel.
If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed,
altimeter and VSI.
I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable
solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have
failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv@hotmail.com>
I just stopped at Barnesville S.E. of Columbus on Sunday and fueled up for
2.15/gal 100LL.
Keep in mind the FBO isn't normally opened on Sunday.
Pat Perry
N154PK RV-4
Dallas, PA
Do Not Archive
>From: "Richard Bibb" <richard.bibb@verizon.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:53:37 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <richard.bibb@verizon.net>
>
>Looking for a fuel stop enroute to Oshkosh someplace around Columbus, Ohio.
>Looking fro cheap gas as I won't be flyying the RV this time but a T-6 and
>cheap gas is kinda a necessity.
>
>Any suggesstions?
>
>Richard Bibb
>RV-4 N144KT
>T6-G N3518G
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> >
> >Paul Besing wrote:
> >>
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
> >>
> >> I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start
> >> flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument
> >> (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary
> >> attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds.
> >
> >
> >Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the
> >Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them
> >unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground
> >is...........useless.
> >
> >I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though
> >is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when
> >subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the
> >Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one.
> >But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown
> >actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That
> >will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together.
> >
> >Sam Buchanan
> >
> I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with
> the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a
> cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is
> really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS
> fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial
> panel.
>
> If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed,
> altimeter and VSI.
>
> I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable
> solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have
> failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
By "only flight instrument" I was referring to flying approaches (IMC or
under the hood) using the Dynon as the only source of reference for
flight information.
Obviously the Dynon should have at least partial panel backup in actual
IMC.
Sam Buchanan
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
Bruno,
You wrote "I have a SL-40 installed in my RV-4 and I can used the intercom
and the monitoring function without having a separate switch installed. I
believe an avionics shop can take care of that."
Am I to understand that this unit doesn't ordinarily support this
functionality and that the OWNER MUST make a change to it first before it
you can separate the intercom and standby frequency monitoring? If so, is
this change in the instructions so the owner can do it themselves?
thx,
lucky
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Benson" <brad@cds-inc.com>
Hi Kevin,
I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention a backup gyro (TC / T&B / AI / whatever)
- was that intentional?
I have my panel layout just about ready for cutting. Essentially, I used the
Dynon to replace the attitude indicator and the gyro compass - the Dynon will
be located in place of the attitude indicator and I'm putting the VOR head underneath
where the gyro compass would have been. I kept the turn coordinator
as a backup gyro "just in case", and kept the other instruments (ASI, altimeter,
VSI) in the six pack as well for the same reason.
I figure that what I have done is traded one liability (the vaccuum system & associated
gyros) for a smaller one (the Dynon w/battery backup) and saved some
weight at the same time. After factoring everything in (AOA, G-meter, etc.),
it looks like this swap is a wash, cost-wise.
Thanks!
Brad "Sharpie" Benson
RV6AQB underway...
"Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" - http://www.notamd.com
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 7/18/2003 at 5:53 AM Kevin Horton wrote:
>I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with
>the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a
>cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is
>really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS
>fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial
>panel.
>
>If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed,
>altimeter and VSI.
>
>I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable
>solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have
>failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 7/18/2003 2:38:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mstewart@qa.butler.com writes:
> Nice formation pictures Lucy.
I'm sure that only his very good friends call him Lucy.
Do not archive!
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 609hrs)
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
Kevin,
I've done some thinking on this and you've just caught
me off guard. I realize that the dynon or BM could replace the
gyro AI and the wiskey compass replaces the gyro compass but
why would you want a VSI instead of a T&B ?
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
do not archive
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:53:22 -0400 Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Let's not forget that if the EFIS fails you need some other flight
instruments so you can do partial panel.
If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have
backup airspeed, altimeter and VSI.
>
I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 9
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| Subject: | SL-40 Intercom/monitor function |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock@theriver.com>
On my SL-40 you can select the intercom and monitor functions as it came
from Stark. I cannot use both at the some time however.
Neil McLeod
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky macy
Subject: Re: RV-List: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
Bruno,
You wrote "I have a SL-40 installed in my RV-4 and I can used the
intercom
and the monitoring function without having a separate switch installed.
I
believe an avionics shop can take care of that."
Am I to understand that this unit doesn't ordinarily support this
functionality and that the OWNER MUST make a change to it first before
it
you can separate the intercom and standby frequency monitoring? If so,
is
this change in the instructions so the owner can do it themselves?
thx,
lucky
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine input-Please |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
Hi Dana:
From your reply to my questions I make the age of the engine 20 + years, for
me that would be a mandatory overhaul.
From the information you have it sounds like it would be a premium core. I
would contact Aero Sport and talk to Bart. (250 376-2955 )
If you could get it for say 6000 and overhaul it you would have a good deal.
If you shipped to Bart and have him inspect it and run it, it is possible
you could get by without an overhaul.
Eustace
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine input-Please
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm going to reply to Eustace's questions as an example of just why I am
> building an experimental aircraft. And they wonder why I'm getting rid of
a
> beautiful Bonanza. Well, follow this thread and you will see why. It's
> absurd.
>
> Just for grins, I called the shop I use for avionics on my Bonanza to see
> just what it would cost to have my newly acquired Garmin 430 installed to
> replace "other" Garmin panel mounted approach certified GPS/COM. Read my
> lips, plug and play..............$2300. Man, I can't wait to fly this RV
> summer of 2004!! As you can tell, the more I think about it, the more
> freckin ticked (nicest way I could say it) I get.
>
> I may or may not buy the engine, but it's just why it was removed that is
> absurd.
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider/fuselage
> Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
> >From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine input-Please
> >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:18:46 -0700
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
> >
> >Hi Dana:
> >
> >This engine can be equipped with a fuel pump without changing the
accessory
> >case. Aero Sport builds a hybrid mag that will replace the duel mags
> >without
> >any changes to the drive gears, you would then run one electronic. In
other
> >words it is a very straightforward installation in an RV. Also being
> >counterweighted I believe this eliminates and RPM restrictions.
>
>
> The engine already is converted for a mechanical fuel pump. All I have to
> do is buy another fuel pump, as it was put on the new engine. More to
> follow
> >
> >However the things that I would be most concerned about are:
> >
> >Why was it removed with only 900 hours? Was it removed for an upgrade or
> >what?
>
> The original engine siezed and was replaced by this A1F6D. During an
annual
> 18 years after it's install (after 18 years of total problem free
operation)
> the A&P discovered this engine was not the original engine in the
airplane.
> He made the owner install a new A1A as called for. The A1F6D
> is an A1A with differnet mags but..........get this........a
counterweighted
> crank. So a counterweighted crank is a bad thing?? I've talked with the
> A&P who made the guy replace it. The A&P has the engine.
> >
> >Would need to know the complete history, has it ever been involved in any
> >kind of incident, prop strike etc.
>
> Nothing, absolutely nothing.
> >
> >How old is it and was it run on a regular basis? What where the
conditions
> >that it has been stored under in the past two years.
>
> About 50 hours a year. Pickled since it's removal 2 years ago.
> >
> >If the engine is in good condition the price is on the cheap side and
> >creates some suspicion on my part.
>
> Mine too.
> >
> >If I were buying it I would ask that the crankshaft be guaranteed
> >serviceable and better still ask if he would agree to having it run in a
> >test stand at your expense (cost in the area of $200.00)before you pay
for
> >it. In any event have the flange dialed by a qualified person before you
> >make a decision.
>
> Will guarantee crank and cam.
> >
> >If the crank is damaged, such as the run-out on the flang being beyond
> >limits the engine is basically worthless. If it needs an overhaul your
cost
> >will be getting close to the cost of a new one
>
> See above
> >
> >On the other hand if it turns out to be a good engine with a 1000 hours
of
> >service left in it, you will be one of the lucky ones in this age of
scarce
> >good used engines.
> >
> >Good Luck
> >
> >Eustace Bowhay -Blind Bay, B.C. RV6 20383
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 196 in panel bring home |
--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
I sure do like being able to take my 196 home at night to see where I had
been and use it to see where I might like to go.
Do Not Archive
Jerry Wilken
RV6A N699WP
138 hr.
Albany OR
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Allison <stevea@svpal.org>
lucky macy wrote:
>Am I to understand that this unit doesn't ordinarily support this
>functionality and that the OWNER MUST make a change to it first before it
>you can separate the intercom and standby frequency monitoring? If so,
is
>this change in the instructions so the owner can do it themselves?
>
Here's the deal on the SL-40 intercom function and monitor function:
Intercom: Activating the intercom requires pulling pin 12 to ground.
This can be done with a switch on the panel (as shown in the installation
manual, switch not supplied with SL-40 install kit), or by hard wiring pin
12 to ground in the harness (if you want the intercom ON all the time).
Monitor: Activated by pressing the MON button on the front of the panel.
De-activated by pressing MON again.
There is no mention in either the Installation Manual or Users Guide of
not being able to use Intercom and Monitor at the same time.
All this and more can be found in the Installation Manual and Users Guide
available on the UPS Aviation Technologies website.
http://www.upsat.com/
I found the time spent reading the installation manuals and users guides
answered all my questions about functions, features, and how to mount the
hardware. Many manufacturers make both available to download in PDF
format.
Steve Allison
SL-40 on the shelf, along with other panel hardware....time to make holes
in the panel :-)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Neil McLeod wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock@theriver.com>
>
> On my SL-40 you can select the intercom and monitor functions as it came
> from Stark. I cannot use both at the some time however.
>
> Neil McLeod
>
Doesn't the monitor over ride the intercom when someone transmits?
Phil
do not archive
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Ron,
East Coast Avionics did a great job on my -8, Gulf Coast can do it too.
Jim
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Patterson" <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
>
> Anybody know where I can get a panel for my RV-4 that is custom made? I
have most of the avionics and need a fabricated unit to bolt up my radios to
and plug in the wiring. (also want a pre-wired package prepared for me by an
expert).
>
> Ron Patterson
> scc_ron@yahoo.com
> 510-421-2316
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
I didn't mention backup gyro (TC, T&B or backup AI) because I thought
the regs required a separate "rate of turn indicator", so it didn't
need to be mentioned again. However, now that I read FAR
91.205(d)(3) more closely, I see that you could literally comply with
the regs using the turn indicator function that is part of the Dynon
display. The situation is the same in Canada.
So, add turn coordinator, turn & bank or standby attitude indicator
to the list in my first e-mail. And to be completely complete, add a
magnetic compass too (although, practically speaking, GPS track is
probably good enough). The bottom line is that you need to be able
to fly partial panel if the Dynon dies. The regs don't require this,
but common sense certainly does. So figure out what you need to fly
partial panel, and make sure you have it if the Dynon dies.
I will point out this weakness in the regs to the guys in Transport
Canada who are responsible to update them. They work a few floors
above me (Transport Canada has long recognized that the people in the
upper floors of office towers are less likely to get out in the event
of the major emergency. So, they put the people who do the really
important work on the lower floors, giving the organization has the
best chance of still being able to function following a major
catastrophe. Senior management gets the upper floors, as the
organization could continue to tick along just nicely without them.
And the Minister of Transport is on the top floor. I'm almost at
ground level.)
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Benson" <brad@cds-inc.com>
>
>Hi Kevin,
>
>I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention a backup gyro (TC /
>T&B / AI / whatever) - was that intentional?
>
>I have my panel layout just about ready for cutting. Essentially,
>I used the Dynon to replace the attitude indicator and the gyro
>compass - the Dynon will be located in place of the attitude
>indicator and I'm putting the VOR head underneath where the gyro
>compass would have been. I kept the turn coordinator as a backup
>gyro "just in case", and kept the other instruments (ASI, altimeter,
>VSI) in the six pack as well for the same reason.
>
>I figure that what I have done is traded one liability (the vaccuum
>system & associated gyros) for a smaller one (the Dynon w/battery
>backup) and saved some weight at the same time. After factoring
>everything in (AOA, G-meter, etc.), it looks like this swap is a
>wash, cost-wise.
>
>Thanks!
>Brad "Sharpie" Benson
>RV6AQB underway...
>"Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" -
>http://www.notamd.com
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>On 7/18/2003 at 5:53 AM Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with
>>the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a
>>cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is
>>really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS
>>fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial
>>panel.
>>
>>If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed,
>>altimeter and VSI.
>>
>>I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable
>>solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have
>>failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
>>--
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
> >http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
> >
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Joshua Siler" <joshs@ninatek.com>
Since by all accounts you need an autopilot to fly an RV IFR and maintain a
reasonable workload, it seems like one of those turn-and-bank integrated
autopilots would do double duty as a gyro backup quite well.
Josh Siler
RV-7 Emp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
I didn't mention backup gyro (TC, T&B or backup AI) because I thought
the regs required a separate "rate of turn indicator", so it didn't
need to be mentioned again. However, now that I read FAR
91.205(d)(3) more closely, I see that you could literally comply with
the regs using the turn indicator function that is part of the Dynon
display. The situation is the same in Canada.
So, add turn coordinator, turn & bank or standby attitude indicator
to the list in my first e-mail. And to be completely complete, add a
magnetic compass too (although, practically speaking, GPS track is
probably good enough). The bottom line is that you need to be able
to fly partial panel if the Dynon dies. The regs don't require this,
but common sense certainly does. So figure out what you need to fly
partial panel, and make sure you have it if the Dynon dies.
I will point out this weakness in the regs to the guys in Transport
Canada who are responsible to update them. They work a few floors
above me (Transport Canada has long recognized that the people in the
upper floors of office towers are less likely to get out in the event
of the major emergency. So, they put the people who do the really
important work on the lower floors, giving the organization has the
best chance of still being able to function following a major
catastrophe. Senior management gets the upper floors, as the
organization could continue to tick along just nicely without them.
And the Minister of Transport is on the top floor. I'm almost at
ground level.)
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brad Benson" <brad@cds-inc.com>
>
>Hi Kevin,
>
>I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention a backup gyro (TC /
>T&B / AI / whatever) - was that intentional?
>
>I have my panel layout just about ready for cutting. Essentially,
>I used the Dynon to replace the attitude indicator and the gyro
>compass - the Dynon will be located in place of the attitude
>indicator and I'm putting the VOR head underneath where the gyro
>compass would have been. I kept the turn coordinator as a backup
>gyro "just in case", and kept the other instruments (ASI, altimeter,
>VSI) in the six pack as well for the same reason.
>
>I figure that what I have done is traded one liability (the vaccuum
>system & associated gyros) for a smaller one (the Dynon w/battery
>backup) and saved some weight at the same time. After factoring
>everything in (AOA, G-meter, etc.), it looks like this swap is a
>wash, cost-wise.
>
>Thanks!
>Brad "Sharpie" Benson
>RV6AQB underway...
>"Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" -
>http://www.notamd.com
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>On 7/18/2003 at 5:53 AM Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with
>>the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a
>>cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is
>>really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS
>>fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial
>>panel.
>>
>>If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed,
>>altimeter and VSI.
>>
>>I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable
>>solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have
>>failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
>>--
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
> >http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
> >
Message 17
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| Subject: | Instrament Panels |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Ron Patterson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
>
>Anybody know where I can get a panel for my RV-4 that is custom made? I have most
of the avionics and need a fabricated unit to bolt up my radios to and plug
in the wiring. (also want a pre-wired package prepared for me by an expert).
>
>Ron Patterson
>scc_ron@yahoo.com
>510-421-2316
>
>
http://www.aerotronics.com - I saw there work at Sun-n-Fun and it looked
great!
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
Agreed. Even if I had a Dynon that was proven after some IFR trials, I
would still have at minimum a backup attitude indicator, altimeter, and
airspeed. Just a comfort factor so that I don't have all instruments
wrapped up in one. Heck, I would probably end up looking at the analog
altimeter and airspeed indicator most of the time anyway, since that is what
I am used to. I had a Rocky Mountain uEncoder and never used it.....guess
that qualifies me as "old school".
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>
> Kevin Horton wrote:
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
> >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> > >
> > >Paul Besing wrote:
> > >>
> > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing"
<azpilot@extremezone.com>
> > >>
> > >> I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when
they start
> > >> flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some
instrument
> > >> (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my
primary
> > >> attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the
clouds.
> > >
> > >
> > >Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the
> > >Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them
> > >unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground
> > >is...........useless.
> > >
> > >I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though
> > >is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when
> > >subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the
> > >Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one.
> > >But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown
> > >actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That
> > >will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together.
> > >
> > >Sam Buchanan
> > >
> > I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with
> > the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a
> > cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is
> > really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS
> > fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial
> > panel.
> >
> > If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed,
> > altimeter and VSI.
> >
> > I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable
> > solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have
> > failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me.
>
>
> By "only flight instrument" I was referring to flying approaches (IMC or
> under the hood) using the Dynon as the only source of reference for
> flight information.
>
> Obviously the Dynon should have at least partial panel backup in actual
> IMC.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Dynon D-10 First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
I went to the hanger at 5:20 pm, ripped out the Vac Horizon, installed the
Dynon. Dropped the nuts and made what should have been a 5 minute task into
30. I had made a quick and dirty cable with an alligator clip on the hot
lead. At 6:30 I went home for dinner. After supper I went to Menards and
got 2- 1/4" Ts and nipples for the pitot static lines. Back to the airport,
hooked up the pitot & static, installed the cover over the panel and went
flying. Temp installation, less than 90 minutes.
I only had time to fly for about 20 minutes.
First of all in an RV-4 the display is Large enough. Maybe even too large.
I think I noticed errors that also exsist in Vacuum Horizon instruments but
mostly go unnoticed.
The Alt and airspeed functions work flawlessly and correlated with my TSO'd
altimeter and Rocky encoder with in a few feet and a knot or two.
The roll indications were for the most part right on, however, during turns
on the ground there was some bank indication error in sharp turns. During
level flight the roll indication wandered a a couple of degrees, mostly
indicating a left roll, again the display is so accurate the indication
probably would have gone unnoticed in a std 3 1/8 gyro instrument.
The pitch also wandered a few times, In most cases this was after large,
rapid pitch excursions. After a few moments it seemed to settle down.
The yaw indications seemed very accurate both in rate and the ball, but I
did not have time to really test standard rate turns etc.
I did several rolls and a half-Cuban. After the cuban the pitch was off by
nearly 10 deg but it settled quickly. The "attitude indeterminate" warning
never was never displayed in during the flight. It did several times when I
was experimenting with the insturment in my hands.
As advertised, The compass does not work at all. Sometimes it will be
pretty close and others it was 180 degrees off.
I did not have time to try long shallow banks.
So after one short flight, my thoughts are that the unit is pretty good, it
is not perfect. It has several really nice features. I have no doubt that
I can fly IFR successfully. The brightness of the display is excellent,
even in direct sunlight. It is big enough. The information is all very
easily to comprehend. and the accuracy is probably acceptable but I must
admit the pitch and roll is not everything I hoped for, but I am comfortable
enough with it to go find a cloud and fly around inside it.
In short, for you VFR types, Vacuum pumps are a thing of the past! This
thing is the answer! I am looking for an IFR solution and I am not ready
to rip out the vacuum system just yet. I should have several more hours on
it before the weekend is over. More to come.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 with no name, anybody got any good ideas?????
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Parker Thomas" <me@parkerthomas.com>
Has anyone out there flown an experimental into Mexico? I saw the
recent article about Francesquito in Pilot Getaways and thought a
weekend trip might be fun. Can't find anything online about flying an
RV.
See you at Oshkosh.
Thanks,
Parker
RV8 N321PT flying
Message 21
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| Subject: | very basic rivet question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rpmiller" <rpmiller@1usa.net>
O.K. I'm riveting my 4 wing and I am wondering why the leading edge is supposed
to use -4 rivets while the rest of the wing uses -3.5. Also I was merrily squeezing
the rivets that connect the leading edge to the spar web flange but am
finding that using a 3.5 the head height looks just barely big enough when the
rivet is squeezed just enough to reject the little avery rivet gauge. I tried
a -4 and of course it has a bigger head. I'd like to blindly follow the plans
but I thought someone might have some advice.
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