Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Gyros (Steve Glasgow)
2. 04:30 AM - Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch (RV3)
3. 05:25 AM - Re: Marvel Schebler (Elsa & Henry)
4. 07:47 AM - OSH - flying in Wed or Thr (eregensburg)
5. 08:46 AM - Re: Marvel Schebler (Sam Buchanan)
6. 08:59 AM - Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch (czechsix@juno.com)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch (RV3)
8. 02:42 PM - Dimpling nutplates (Allan.James@hstna.com)
9. 03:10 PM - Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch (SportAV8R@aol.com)
10. 03:40 PM - Re: Dimpling nutplates (Dan Checkoway)
11. 04:39 PM - Re: Dimpling Nutplates (Graham Potts)
12. 05:01 PM - C/S plumbing (Emrath)
13. 06:56 PM - Re: Marvel Schebler (Elsa & Henry)
14. 07:17 PM - Re: [nonspam] Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch (Larry Pardue)
15. 07:27 PM - Re: Dimpling nutplates (Steve J Hurlbut)
16. 09:10 PM - Lander, WY (H.Ivan Haecker)
17. 10:11 PM - RV-7 Trim Access Plate (Karie Daniel)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Does anyone have any experience with Falcon AH and DG. I understand they
are made in China and are clones of the RC Allen gyros. They are guaranteed
for 1 year but not TSO'd.
Any INFO would be greatly appreciated.
Steve Glasgow
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
>I believe the key word here is OPTIMIZED for cruise. What you say is true if
>that is the way you plan to fly your RV. Most of the people I know that fly with
>FP like to have a compromise prop that gives reasonable performance for takeoff
>and climb. This well cause loss of performance at higher altitude, well not loss
>of performance, but cause you to have to run at a higher RPM to cruise the same
>speed were as CS can adjust rpm and manifold pressure for the altitude they fly
>at.
>
>I wonder how many of you FP pilots fly at WOT at altitude? I prefer not to in
my
>RV-6
>
If you want 75% power at 8000 feet or so you will be using WOT or close
to it.
At some high altitude, WOT will be the only game left in town. <g>
To really blow your mind, there is an accepted cruise technique that uses
WOT all the time.... with horsepower being controlled strictly by
leaning mixture.
Best to have calibrated Gami injectors installed to make max use of it,
though.
Perhaps you missed that enlightening discussion on rah about 8 weeks ago.
>
>Are you saying your RV-3 well only climb at 300 fpm at 3000'? Surely a slip of
>the finger. :-)
>
No slip of the finger, Jerry.
Not only does my RV-3 climb at 300 fpm at 2600 rpm....
It also climbs at ZERO fpm at 2700 rpm.
You see, Sensenich limits my 70CM metal prop to 2600 rpm,
hence the 300 fpm climb blurb only to prevent overspeeding.
Near the other end of the rpm spectrum, the RV-3 can climb appx
1900 fpm @ 2250 rpm, etcetera, etcetera - depending on factors
such as desired airspeed.
>
>As someone else mentioned a CS is also good for aerobatics but I seem to have
as
>much fun as the guys with CS and that $5000.00 sure bought a lot of gas. The
>person who posted the original question needs to evaluate the type of flying you
>plan to do the most of and then buy a prop based on that, not what other people
>think. These airplanes fly great with either one.
>
>Jerry
>do not archive
>
FWIW...
If a constant speed prop is used for_hard_aerobatics, it should be one
approved for that activity, in case oil pressure goes away at WOT.
It's not a pretty picture to find your rods outside the crankcase when
loss of oil to the prop system lets the RPM run out of sight.
P.S.
Last I knew...
Van does not approve aerobatics for the RV3 when a C.S. prop is used.
The additional weight places it outside the aerobatic envelope.
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Schebler |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Great contribution, Bill! That has been added to my engine library.----Now,
does anybody have a similar article on Slick Magnetos?------Thanx!
Cheers!!---Henry Hore
Message 4
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| Subject: | OSH - flying in Wed or Thr |
--> RV-List message posted by: eregensburg <eregensburg@triad.rr.com>
Anyone going up to OSH later in the week ? I am thinking of leaving Wed or
Thursday - looking for some company enroute
Ed
RV6A - N925RV
Greensboro, NC
336-275-3009
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Schebler |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Elsa & Henry wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
> Great contribution, Bill! That has been added to my engine library.----Now,
> does anybody have a similar article on Slick Magnetos?------Thanx!
Try this one:
http://www.eaa49.av.org/techart/slick01.htm
Sam Buchanan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
One other comment I have on the C.S. vs. F.P. debate....I keep hearing
the old cliche argument that having a F.P. prop is like driving a car
with only one gear. This gets a bit tiring because IMHO this is really
stretching things a bit....if this were true, fixed pitch props would not
exist on airplanes any more than cars without transmissions (or only one
gear). I don't know about everybody else out there but I have two
stick-shift vehicles in my driveway, and to get either of them moving in
high gear (or "cruise" configuration, to make the analogy with a F.P.
cruise prop) is just about impossible. If you don't mind burning up the
clutch and taking 5 minutes to go 0-60, you could do it....but in the
real world a car like this would be completely impractical, and for all
but the vehicles with really big engines, just about impossible to drive
anywhere that requires stop-n-go operations (like a city for example).
A F.P. prop on the other hand does remarkably well considering that it's
"stuck in a single gear". True it may not launch you off the runway like
an F-18 off a catapault but it still accelerates a lot better than any
car I've tried to start out in 5th gear. And even if it didn't, the
analogy would still be poor because the airplane spends the vast majority
of it's time in the air, not starting and stopping to the same extent
that your average drive to the grocery store requires.
I still think a C.S. prop would be cool, and would like to have one some
day if I can find a way to justify spending the money over other
competing needs in my household....but I expect to enjoy a lot of hours
in my RV with the F.P. bolted to the nose and don't think it's as bad as
some folks make it out to be. If you're still trying to make the F.P. vs
C.S. decision, and money is an issue, I'd recommend getting an engine
that is set up for F.P. but can be easily converted for C.S. operation.
Upgrading down the road isn't that hard to do.
FWIW...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D painting...
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
czechsix@juno.com wrote:
>-
>A F.P. prop on the other hand does remarkably well considering that it's
>"stuck in a single gear". True it may not launch you off the runway like
>an F-18 off a catapault but it still accelerates a lot better than any
>car I've tried to start out in 5th gear. And even if it didn't, the
>analogy would still be poor because the airplane spends the vast majority
>of it's time in the air, not starting and stopping to the same extent
>that your average drive to the grocery store requires.
>
>I still think a C.S. prop would be cool, and would like to have one some
>day if I can find a way to justify spending the money over other
>competing needs in my household....but I expect to enjoy a lot of hours
>in my RV with the F.P. bolted to the nose and don't think it's as bad as
>some folks make it out to be. If you're still trying to make the F.P. vs
>C.S. decision, and money is an issue, I'd recommend getting an engine
>that is set up for F.P. but can be easily converted for C.S. operation.
>Upgrading down the road isn't that hard to do.
>
>FWIW...
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A CS prop can take off shorter than my fixed pitch RV-3.
I can only get airborne in 500 feet or so on a hot summer day.
A CS prop can out climb my fixed pitch RV-3.
My initial climb is only 1900 fpm or so on a hot day.
Life can still be reasonably sweet on a beer budget....
Sincerely,
RV-3 on $1.40 MOGAS...
with 150 hp Lycoming and 70 CM7S16-0-79 prop.
Do not archive
.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Dimpling nutplates |
18, 2001) at 07/26/2003 04:59:20 PM,
Serialize complete at 07/26/2003 04:59:20 PM
--> RV-List message posted by: Allan.James@hstna.com
Listers;
I'm getting ready to put the nut plates onto the trim tab
reinforcement plate, and have a dumb question. I'm assuming the holes on
the nutplates have to be dimpled for the flush rivets, but the first one I
did seems to bend the end of the nutplate. Am I right in that these must
be dimpled. I haven't been able to find any reference to this in the
archives, nor in the instructions.
Thanks in advance,
Allan James
RV7A QB - Elevators
N322AR
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
In a message dated 7/25/2003 8:15:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
racker@rmci.net writes:
> Hey, the part about 150/160hp -8's do just fine is valid <g>.
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6, 160hp, 2600 rpm f/p, no overspeed above 3.5K', formation
> with O-360 c/s identical cruise performance, 1400fpm@100K climb at 3k',
> can't wait to fly at sea level <g>).
> do not archive
>
Rob: what's your pitch? MIne's 76 and Sensenich is suggesting a repitch to
78 since I now have 160 hp (started out with 150 years ago...)
Bill B
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dimpling nutplates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Buy some NAS1097AD3-3.5 (or whatever length you need) rivets from Van's
(i.e. 1/8 of a pound for like $3). Those suckers require a much shallower
countersink/dimple than conventional AN426AD3-3.5 rivets.
The idea is that instead of dimpling, you machine countersink...but these
rivet heads only require a few turns by hand to get a countersink wide and
deep enough. Works great on material .032 and thinner, where machine
countersinking is iffy at best.
Anywhere you've got nutplates, these NAS1097s can come in really handy.
Wish I started using them long before I did!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Allan.James@hstna.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dimpling nutplates
> --> RV-List message posted by: Allan.James@hstna.com
>
> Listers;
>
> I'm getting ready to put the nut plates onto the trim tab
> reinforcement plate, and have a dumb question. I'm assuming the holes on
> the nutplates have to be dimpled for the flush rivets, but the first one I
> did seems to bend the end of the nutplate. Am I right in that these must
> be dimpled. I haven't been able to find any reference to this in the
> archives, nor in the instructions.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Allan James
> RV7A QB - Elevators
> N322AR
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Nutplates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Graham Potts" <graham.potts@btconnect.com>
I bought a bag of NAS1097 rivets for this and other places where flush
rivets are used to fix a nutplate in place. You can make a countersink
for these rivets in fairly thin skins using a hole deburring tool - it
only needs a very shallow countersink.
Graham
RV8 Wings (Fuel Tanks)
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Eustace: Thanks so much for your great post. I've wondered about this
for a long time, even after talking with Van's. My engine was not
purchased from Van's and when I spoke to them about Prop governor
adapters and gears, they really had no advice. I was not aware that the
adapter and gear was shipped with all Lyc's purchased from Van's! So,
if any Listeners have a governor oil line for a C/S set up that they
removed and would like to sell, I'll be happy to take one. Saves some
weight up front. I do seem to recall that Van's put a warning in one of
the Rvaitors about punching out the hole in the front plug. We had a
local Cozy IV engine bust the fount seal (well on the pusher it is a
"rear seal") and return to the airport, just as the engine ceased.
Do not archive
Marty in Brentwood TN
Time: 04:11:07 PM PST US
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List:crankshaft oil plugs - was Re: STD-1211
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
There has been lots about this in the achieves, because it is such a
critical item to safety I thought it should be run by again.
The new Lycomings with the hollow cranks are set up to run either props,
fixed or constant speed. When they arrive from the factory both the
front and rear plugs are installed in the crank. Also the governor line
from the front to the rear of the engine is in place. It has a cover
were the governor mounts and this has a slot built into it that releives
the oil pressure that would otherwise build up between the two plugs in
the front of the crankshaft. To run the fixed pitch on a factory new
just bolt the prop on, however if the governor line is removed and the
holes are plugged then the front plug has to be removed and the rear
plug either removed or punctured to relieve the pressure and a new plug
installed in the front. To run a constant speed the front plug is
removed and the governor installed in place of the cover and you are all
set.
The check list would be:
Fixed pitch with governor line installed, make sure that it has the
proper cover on the governor adapter with the slot in it. Fixed pitch
without governor line the rear plug must be removed or punctured
If the engine is other than factory new all of the above must be
verified.
Aero Sport engines are set up to the customer's requirements before
being shipped.
In any case the pressure has to be removed between the plugs when
running a fixed pitch or the front plug can be blown out and all of the
oil would be lost in a matter of minutes.
This pressure can exceed 100 psi on take-off when the engine is not
properly warmed up.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. RV6 20383
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Schebler |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Another great contribution, this one from Sam re magnetos! (Hey Sam, this is
becoming a habit! First the thanks for your warning on the Cleveland brake
snafu and now my thanks re the Magneto info!) Way to Go!!
Cheers!!-----Henry Hore
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed vs. Fixed Pitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@carlsbad.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
> Guys,
>
>
> A F.P. prop on the other hand does remarkably well considering that it's
> "stuck in a single gear". True it may not launch you off the runway like
> an F-18 off a catapault but it still accelerates a lot better than any
> car I've tried to start out in 5th gear. And even if it didn't, the
> analogy would still be poor because the airplane spends the vast majority
> of it's time in the air, not starting and stopping to the same extent
> that your average drive to the grocery store requires.
>
> I still think a C.S. prop would be cool, and would like to have one some
> day if I can find a way to justify spending the money over other
> competing needs in my household....but I expect to enjoy a lot of hours
> in my RV with the F.P. bolted to the nose and don't think it's as bad as
> some folks make it out to be.
Have you ever noticed how folks with constant speeds actually use them.
They take off at the higher RPM their prop allows them, then the bring the
RPM back to where mine already was. The big advantage exists for about 20
seconds or so.
Fly with a Bonanza sometime. You have the choice of throttling back to
about 2100 RPM (fixed pitch), or outclimbing them so bad they won't see you
for long. They never complain about the poor performance of a fixed pitch.
I have flown with a lot of RV's with constant speeds, and have never had a
problem keeping up. Having said all that, though, I would enjoy the more
spectacular runway performance and more relaxed cruise RPM of a constant
speed, and I may well do it some day when my ship comes in.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Dimpling nutplates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
I use NAS1097 rivets well.
If you do dimple the nutplates they will bow a bit to prevent them from
sitting flush.
After dimpling them, take a flat pair of pliers and straighten them out 1
side at a time.
It is much faster and easier to use NAS1097 rivets. Get yourself a selection
of them.
I have 3-3, 3-3.5, 3-4, and 3-4.5. Saves time and a bit of heart ache in
places.
Steve
RV7A
Almost airworthy
Off to Oshkosh now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dimpling nutplates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Buy some NAS1097AD3-3.5 (or whatever length you need) rivets from Van's
> (i.e. 1/8 of a pound for like $3). Those suckers require a much shallower
> countersink/dimple than conventional AN426AD3-3.5 rivets.
>
> The idea is that instead of dimpling, you machine countersink...but these
> rivet heads only require a few turns by hand to get a countersink wide and
> deep enough. Works great on material .032 and thinner, where machine
> countersinking is iffy at best.
>
> Anywhere you've got nutplates, these NAS1097s can come in really handy.
> Wish I started using them long before I did!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Allan.James@hstna.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Dimpling nutplates
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Allan.James@hstna.com
> >
> > Listers;
> >
> > I'm getting ready to put the nut plates onto the trim tab
> > reinforcement plate, and have a dumb question. I'm assuming the holes
on
> > the nutplates have to be dimpled for the flush rivets, but the first one
I
> > did seems to bend the end of the nutplate. Am I right in that these
must
> > be dimpled. I haven't been able to find any reference to this in the
> > archives, nor in the instructions.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Allan James
> > RV7A QB - Elevators
> > N322AR
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl@gvtc.com>
Hi all,
I hope to be spending a week near Lander, WY and would like to know if anyone on
the list is based there. I would especially like to know if there would be hangar
space available for July 29 -Aug 6. Any info appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Ivan Haecker rv-4 925 hrs. So. Cen. TX
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | RV-7 Trim Access Plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" <karie4@comcast.net>
I am working on installing the electronic trim in the elevator and the access plate
has 7 nutplates for what appears to be flush screws. The flush screws appear
to be too long. I don't want to drive the screw beyond the end of the nut
plate do I? Is it possible that I just have the wrong screws?
Also, anyone out there have an electric trim installed alongside a manual trim?
I'm thinking I might want to add the manual trim now if it's possible to have
both. I prefer the manual over the electronic since you can "feel" what's going
on a bit better.
Karie Daniel
Sammamish, WA
RV-7A QB
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