---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/08/03: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:07 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing (RV3) 2. 04:17 AM - Re: flexible brake lines (Roger Embree) 3. 05:32 AM - More Cleaning out of hangar (Scott Brown) 4. 06:17 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (Scott Bilinski) 5. 06:47 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing (Bob) 6. 07:05 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing (SportAV8R@aol.com) 7. 07:09 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (David E. Nelson) 8. 07:09 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (SportAV8R@aol.com) 9. 07:46 AM - Re: Cardinal Paint (Emrath) 10. 07:54 AM - Re: flexible brake lines (Gil Alexander) 11. 08:07 AM - Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any interest???? (James E. Clark) 12. 08:19 AM - Oshkosh RV-6 accident (Steven Eberhart) 13. 08:57 AM - Re: flexible brake lines (Jim Oke) 14. 09:16 AM - Re: flexible brake lines (WPAerial@aol.com) 15. 09:34 AM - Re: Oshkosh RV-6 accident (Michael McGee) 16. 09:47 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (Scott Bilinski) 17. 10:00 AM - Re: Oshkosh RV-6 accident (Gert) 18. 10:55 AM - Re: flexible brake lines (Paul Besing) 19. 11:12 AM - Re: flexible brake lines (JusCash@aol.com) 20. 11:30 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (SportAV8R@aol.com) 21. 11:51 AM - Engine Crankcase Breather (HCRV6@aol.com) 22. 11:57 AM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (Scott Bilinski) 23. 12:15 PM - 4" Alternator Pulley (Chuck Weyant) 24. 12:28 PM - Re: Off Airport Landing (Pat Perry) 25. 12:34 PM - Re: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks (Tracy Crook) 26. 02:25 PM - First Flight N757X RV-7A (Scott) 27. 02:33 PM - Re: Off Airport Landing (Terry Watson) 28. 02:36 PM - Re:4" Alternator Pulley (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 29. 02:43 PM - Low fuel level indicator (Amit Dagan) 30. 02:50 PM - Re: Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any interest???? (Amit Dagan) 31. 02:53 PM - Re: Oshkosh RV-6 accident (Amit Dagan) 32. 02:58 PM - Re: Low fuel level indicator (Mitch Faatz) 33. 03:45 PM - Re: flexible brake lines (Jerry Calvert) 34. 06:42 PM - EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot (Thomas Velvick) 35. 06:49 PM - Re: First Flight N757X RV-7A (Charles Rowbotham) 36. 07:21 PM - RV6A - 2 partners wanted (eregensburg) 37. 07:26 PM - Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP (Michael McGee) 38. 08:26 PM - Re: Re: Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any interest???? (James E. Clark) 39. 08:46 PM - need dimensions for 3ATI panel cutout (C J Heitman) 40. 09:38 PM - Re: Engine Crankcase Breather (Vanremog@aol.com) 41. 10:47 PM - RESULTS-Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP (Michael McGee) 42. 11:27 PM - Re: Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP (Todd Houg) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:09 AM PST US From: RV3 Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing --> RV-List message posted by: RV3 Jerry Springer wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > >RV3 wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Did I miss something in airplane 101? >>> >>>Alex Peterson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Apparently not. >> >> >>Do not archive. >> >> >>_- >> >> >> >Bob I think where the confusion comes from is that with the carb >attached to the oil sump on a Lycoming there is some heat transfer to >the carb >which helps retard carb ice. > >Jerry >do not archive > Yep.... Now that I've been corrected, that's about all I can come up with to minimize the effect of my brain fart. Thanx, Jerry. :-[ Bob Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:02 AM PST US From: Roger Embree Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree I am also interested in a flexible line setup. A fellow builder just completed a 6a and was doing some high speed taxi testing. With heavy braking he experienced the groaning and vibration reported here before. The next day in the hangar, he noticed brake fluid on the floor beneath this section of aluminum tubing. It had cracked on the inside of the bend. The caliper is held in place by pins that allow it to float freely sideways. When the break pads are not tight against the rotor the caliper can be moved around quite a bit and is restricted in movement partly by the aluminum break line. So, any movement of the caliper is tranfered directly to the brake line. Bending metals causes them to strain harden which is not what you want for something that could be exposed to severe vibrations. I am interested in where you got your fittings etc, (pictures?). Roger Embree RV4 C-GIRH 140 hrs Jerry Calvert wrote: >I am considering using flexible brake lines from the caliper to the aluminum line. I have found brake lines that have a banjo fitting that would attach to the caliper. > >Anyone have experience with this setup? Trying to determine if there is any problems with this arrangement. > >Thanks, >Jerry Calvert > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:41 AM PST US From: "Scott Brown" Subject: RV-List: More Cleaning out of hangar --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Brown" Listers, I have cleaned out more of the hangar, and have found more items that I will not be using. I have the following: - One pair of Sam James Wheel Pants...fits all RVs and Rockets............$75 ea - One pair of Harmon Rocket Fuel Tank Skins....21 gals per side...fits HR2, RV4, RV6.......$75 ea - One pair of Full Leading edge Fuel Tank Skins....Fits RV-4 and RV-6........$150 ea - One parachute....very thin backpack...great for RVs......$500 OBO Please repond offline at scottbrown@precisionjet.com Cheers! Scott ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:52 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I was thinking the same thing, why switch from a known good fuel source to a unknown, for lack of a better term. Then I thought about it, On a steep decent with 3~5 gallons in the tank all that fuel could flow forward and then you would be sucking air. Wonder if this is what happened? What would be really interesting is to put say 5 gallons in the tank and then lift the tail which would equal 10? degrees nose down and see if you can still pull fuel. At 08:45 PM 8/7/03 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV6ator@aol.com > >If the engine is running on a good tank with suffficient fuel prior to >takeoff or landing--don't screw with it! Leave the fuel selector where it >is. Switch >tanks at a safe altitude. > >Bill Mahoney >Sherman, CT >RV-6 N747W > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:11 AM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing --> RV-List message posted by: Bob What about the possibility of a relatively low fuel quantity in the tank and a nose low descent. With our fuel pick-ups in the rear of the tank, has anyone figured out the difference in useable fuel with a nose low attitude versus a climb or normal cruise attitude. Yes, this can happen. I have experienced engine sputtering with as much as seven gallons in a nose low decent, especially if I am slipping and the tank I am using is the low wing tank (this maneuver will unport the fuel pickup and is common in other types of aicraft also). I have a fuel injected system so I know it is "not carb ice", when the engine starts running rough I immediately switch tanks, this always solves the problem. Rules of thumb that I fly by: 1. I am always high on final, most of the time still at traffic pattern altitude. With engine idle, full flaps and a slip, you can get a really good sink rate ie. 1200-1500 fpm (if you really need it). I try and maintain 80 kts. 2. I plan to land by using the fuel tank that will be in the higher wing, ie when on a left hand traffic pattern, the right fuel tank is in the high wing. 3. My favorite thing to do in my RV is practice engine outs at various places in the traffic pattern. While in the pattern at pattern altitude, I feel very confident that I can make a safe landing on the runway no matter where the engine quits. Caveat, my rules work for me and my aircraft, if these rules of thumb bother you disregard. Bob ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:55 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com In a message dated 08/08/2003 12:00:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: > Bob I think where the confusion comes from is that with the carb > attached to the oil sump on a Lycoming there is some heat transfer to > the carb > which helps retard carb ice. > > Jerry > Touch your carb some time when you have the engine uncowled just after flight, as in oil-change time: mine gets too hot to leave your finger on for more than a half-second. I was amazed the fuel in the carb float bowl didn't boil. Not sure what effect the induction airflow of a running engine and cooling air through the cowling in flight has on these temperature conditions, but agree the carb gets a LOT of heat from the sump in a Lycoming. This always struck me as very inefficient design, likened to operating with the carb heat on all the time... -Bill B ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:25 AM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" Hi All, I'm just a student at this time (getting my x-country solos in - almost there!), but this has been a concern of mine in the back of my head....and now I read this. In the Jepperson book it talks about what causes carb ice to form and how to alleviate it. In particular, throttling back causes a high pressure differential in the carb and a drastic temp drop - throw in vaporizing fuel and humidity and you've got a bad recipe for disaster. I'm being taught to perform GUMPCS and turning carb heat off to be followed by throttleing back and decending through base and final. If you ask me, carb heat should be applied during GUMPCS but the POH and instructor say no. The POH says not to use CH due to possible detonation on full power. I think I'd rather have some detonation than no power at all and crash. Besides, I can either turn off CH or throttle back a little and get rid of the detonation - correct? Those two alternatives are quicker responding than letting the ice melt. Cash, sorry to hear about your experience but glad you survived. /\/elson On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 JusCash@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com > > This is the reason I hated to post my problem to the list. I knew that the > second guessing would start. I did the best I could with what I had to work > with. I just thank God I am here to tell you about it. The final consensus is > carb ice. > > Cash Copeland ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:49 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com In a message dated 08/08/2003 9:22:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes: > On a steep > decent with 3~5 gallons in the tank all that fuel could flow forward and > then you would be sucking air. Wonder if this is what happened? What would > be really interesting is to put say 5 gallons in the tank and then lift the > tail which would equal 10? degrees nose down and see if you can still pull > fuel. > Okay, but I don't make any descents on final that way. I try to get the plane slowed down to the back side of the power curve (1.3 x Vso), so it's more like 10 degrees nose UP for a steep descent, and if it needs to be steeper still, just pull the stick back more... -Bill B ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:46 AM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: RV-List: RE: Cardinal Paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" Oops, that name should be Cardinal not Pardinal Paint. This is an Acrylic touch-up paint. It seems that the cockpit could mostly be upholstered and so this should be adequate paint. Thanks for anyone's thoughts. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Emrath [mailto:emrath@comcast.net] Subject: Cardinal Paint Is anyone using the Pardinal Paint in spray cans to match Van's powder coating on the interior of their cockpit? If so, will you please comment as to it's durability. I may be interested in using for my cockpit and would be interested in purchasing any cans you may not have used or need, rather than purchasing a 6 pack from Cardinal. Marty in Brentwood, TN Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:01 AM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander Roger and Jerry ... why not just use -3 size Teflon braided flexible hose line from the top of the gear leg all the way down to the caliper?? This eliminates the need for a tube to hose fitting down by the caliper. No need for bajo fittings, just use AN type fittings The hoses can be bought pre-made here at a reasonable cost... http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/066.pdf For fittings in -3 size, see... http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/072.pdf Other RVs have been built this way..... many builders also use these hoses as the link from the pilot's side brake actuators to the firewall - much less bulky than the kit supplied hoses. gil in Tucson At 07:13 AM 8/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree > >I am also interested in a flexible line setup. A fellow builder just >completed a 6a and was doing some high speed taxi testing. With heavy >braking he experienced the groaning and vibration reported here before. >The next day in the hangar, he noticed brake fluid on the floor beneath >this section of aluminum tubing. It had cracked on the inside of the bend. > >The caliper is held in place by pins that allow it to float freely >sideways. When the break pads are not tight against the rotor the >caliper can be moved around quite a bit and is restricted in movement >partly by the aluminum break line. So, any movement of the caliper is >tranfered directly to the brake line. Bending metals causes them to >strain harden which is not what you want for something that could be >exposed to severe vibrations. I am interested in where you got your >fittings etc, (pictures?). > >Roger Embree >RV4 C-GIRH 140 hrs > >Jerry Calvert wrote: > > >I am considering using flexible brake lines from the caliper to the > aluminum line. I have found brake lines that have a banjo fitting that > would attach to the caliper. > > > >Anyone have experience with this setup? Trying to determine if there is > any problems with this arrangement. > > > >Thanks, > >Jerry Calvert > > > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:01 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" Subject: RV-List: Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any interest???? --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" GlacierSeveral of us have used the Ritchie M2 electronic compass in our custom/homebuilt/experimental planes and they seem to work just fine. The sensor is remote from the display and as soon as you turn it on, it locks on to the correct heading. The reason for this message is that a few people asked about how to get one and I have found that Ritchie has put the program on the "back burner" (I guess due to lack of interest from boaters) and are therefore not making them at this time. There are many places that have them for $200+. BUT ... I have found about 10 or so of these units and if there is interest, I can purchase the entire lot. The price would be somewhere in the $100-$150 range, **definitely** less than $200. Any interest?? If so, email me "off-list" with contact info. (james@nextupventures.com) . James ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:34 AM PST US From: Steven Eberhart Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart Has anyone heard what they did with Van's red demonstrator RV-6 that was involved in the runway accident at Oshkosh? Just curious if they are going to replace the wing in the workshop at Pioneer field. Possibly borrow a wing from the EAA young eagles RV-6 so they could ferry it home? Steve Eberhart RV-7A - working on wings ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:37 AM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke Quite correct - flexing tubing beyond a certain amount will eventually weaken it and cause a break. However the RV plans (most any model) show a generous loop of aluminium tubing around the axle before the AN-8XX which connects it to the wheel caliper. The idea is that the 1/16" or so in/out movement in the brake caliper will be spread over this 6"-8" length of tubing and keep the amount of flexing quite small - below the fatigue limit of the material. Too small a loop and/or damage such as a nick in the tube are more likely the cause of a break in this area. The alternatives such as using some other material or adding a short section of flex hose for the caliper joint are likely to add weight, cost, and complexity and offer more leak opportunities. I would venture that the large majority of RVs flying use 1/4 aluminium tube down to the caliper and are trouble free in this area. Jim Oke RV-6A C-GKGZ RV-3 C-FIZM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Embree" Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines > --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree > > I am also interested in a flexible line setup. A fellow builder just > completed a 6a and was doing some high speed taxi testing. With heavy > braking he experienced the groaning and vibration reported here before. > The next day in the hangar, he noticed brake fluid on the floor beneath > this section of aluminum tubing. It had cracked on the inside of the bend. > > The caliper is held in place by pins that allow it to float freely > sideways. When the break pads are not tight against the rotor the > caliper can be moved around quite a bit and is restricted in movement > partly by the aluminum break line. So, any movement of the caliper is > tranfered directly to the brake line. Bending metals causes them to > strain harden which is not what you want for something that could be > exposed to severe vibrations. I am interested in where you got your > fittings etc, (pictures?). > > Roger Embree > RV4 C-GIRH 140 hrs > > Jerry Calvert wrote: > > >I am considering using flexible brake lines from the caliper to the aluminum line. I have found brake lines that have a banjo fitting that would attach to the caliper. > > > >Anyone have experience with this setup? Trying to determine if there is any problems with this arrangement. > > > >Thanks, > >Jerry Calvert > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:58 AM PST US From: WPAerial@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com Call Tom Geen at Van's. He has a few stories about the problems using flexible lines ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:16 AM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee At 10:18 2003-08-08 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart > >Has anyone heard what they did with Van's red demonstrator RV-6 that was >involved in the runway accident at Oshkosh? Just curious if they are >going to replace the wing in the workshop at Pioneer field. Possibly >borrow a wing from the EAA young eagles RV-6 so they could ferry it home? > >Steve Eberhart >RV-7A - working on wings It's probably back in Oregon by now. I talked to Rob Butt at Van's on Tuesday and he helped pull the wings off at Osh and put it on a truck. The wing spar was one of the early hand drilled type so any wing replacement will be all new and drilled in place. At that time they weren't sure what they were going to do with the plane, i.e. repair or salvage. The Lance was totaled. Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:23 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Not knocking your approaches its just thats not the way I was taught by Mike S. We came in high, engine at idle and full flaps, put the numbers just over the spinner and kept them there. This makes for a very steep decent and thinking about it could really cause a problem if you cut it too close on the fuel and only have a few gallons in one tank left. At 10:09 AM 8/8/03 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > >In a message dated 08/08/2003 9:22:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes: > > >> On a steep >> decent with 3~5 gallons in the tank all that fuel could flow forward and >> then you would be sucking air. Wonder if this is what happened? What would >> be really interesting is to put say 5 gallons in the tank and then lift the >> tail which would equal 10? degrees nose down and see if you can still pull >> fuel. >> > >Okay, but I don't make any descents on final that way. I try to get the >plane slowed down to the back side of the power curve (1.3 x Vso), so it's >more >like 10 degrees nose UP for a steep descent, and if it needs to be steeper >still, just pull the stick back more... > >-Bill B > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:26 AM PST US From: Gert Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident --> RV-List message posted by: Gert When I talked with Mike, he indicated they were going to drive the 6 back to Van's place. they were looking at a new wing, motor mount and engine stuff. That was till.... somebody in a great haste to make pictures of the broken 6 drove over Mike's >>up to then unharmed cowling<<, removed to look at the motor mount.... Things people do to get pictures of accident scenes, even if it involves friends. Just wondering what was so bleeding important to get those pictures to cause Mike more damage. Gert Michael McGee wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee > > At 10:18 2003-08-08 -0500, you wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart >> >>Has anyone heard what they did with Van's red demonstrator RV-6 that was >>involved in the runway accident at Oshkosh? Just curious if they are >>going to replace the wing in the workshop at Pioneer field. Possibly >>borrow a wing from the EAA young eagles RV-6 so they could ferry it home? >> >>Steve Eberhart >>RV-7A - working on wings >> > > It's probably back in Oregon by now. I talked to Rob Butt at Van's on > Tuesday and he helped pull the wings off at Osh and put it on a truck. The > wing spar was one of the early hand drilled type so any wing replacement > will be all new and drilled in place. At that time they weren't sure what > they were going to do with the plane, i.e. repair or salvage. The Lance > was totaled. > > Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR > 13B in gestation mode > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:48 AM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" I put flexible lines everywhere in my RV-6A. No problems in the first 100 hours that I flew it. A new owner has it now, and to my knowledge he hasn't had any problems either. My RV-10 will also have flexible brake lines. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Embree" Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines > --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree > > I am also interested in a flexible line setup. A fellow builder just > completed a 6a and was doing some high speed taxi testing. With heavy > braking he experienced the groaning and vibration reported here before. > The next day in the hangar, he noticed brake fluid on the floor beneath > this section of aluminum tubing. It had cracked on the inside of the bend. > > The caliper is held in place by pins that allow it to float freely > sideways. When the break pads are not tight against the rotor the > caliper can be moved around quite a bit and is restricted in movement > partly by the aluminum break line. So, any movement of the caliper is > tranfered directly to the brake line. Bending metals causes them to > strain harden which is not what you want for something that could be > exposed to severe vibrations. I am interested in where you got your > fittings etc, (pictures?). > > Roger Embree > RV4 C-GIRH 140 hrs > > Jerry Calvert wrote: > > >I am considering using flexible brake lines from the caliper to the aluminum line. I have found brake lines that have a banjo fitting that would attach to the caliper. > > > >Anyone have experience with this setup? Trying to determine if there is any problems with this arrangement. > > > >Thanks, > >Jerry Calvert > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:01 AM PST US From: JusCash@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com When the wheelpants departed the airplane, during my off airport landing, it also ripped the aluminum mount from the brake to axle attachment. It did not damage the aluminum brake line. My line is clamped to the front of the gear leg with a loop around the leg then into the caliper. I wouldn't be to concerned about cold working the tube as there is very little movement. Cash Copeland In a message dated 8/8/2003 8:58:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wjoke@shaw.ca writes: > > Quite correct - flexing tubing beyond a certain amount will eventually > weaken it and cause a break. > > However the RV plans (most any model) show a generous loop of aluminium > tubing around the axle before the AN-8XX which connects it to the wheel > caliper. The idea is that the 1/16" or so in/out movement in the brake > caliper will be spread over this 6"-8" length of tubing and keep the amount > of flexing quite small - below the fatigue limit of the material. > > Too small a loop and/or damage such as a nick in the tube are more likely > the cause of a break in this area. The alternatives such as using some other > material or adding a short section of flex hose for the caliper joint are > likely to add weight, cost, and complexity and offer more leak > opportunities. > > I would venture that the large majority of RVs flying use 1/4 aluminium tube > down to the caliper and are trouble free in this area. > > Jim Oke > RV-6A C-GKGZ > RV-3 C-FIZM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:51 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com No, Scott, you certainly aren't knocking my approaches, you're describing them :-) I, too, was taught by the Great Santini, er, Seegar. I think we have a failure to communicate... Whether one flies airspeed or pitch attitude on final probably makes little practical difference... I would guess you are seeing 65-70 mph IAS on final, just as I am, with full flaps and that trademark steep RV approach. My prime beef with this RV landing characteristic is that the nose will often obscure the touchdown point since it must be held so high. The bottom line is: I never, ever worry on final about fuel being too far forward in the tanks to reach the pickup tube... a pitch attitude sufficient to do that would put my airspeed well above the white arc in no time at all. I'm not sure what part of this technique is supposed to be especailly problematic in regards to a low fuel situation. Just remember to do any slips away from the tank you've selected. I typically land using the right tank, and make any slips with left bank and right rudder. Fuel pressure goes up 1 psi just from the ram effect (just kidding there!!!) -Bill B do not archive > Not knocking your approaches its just thats not the way I was taught by > Mike S. We came in high, engine at idle and full flaps, put the numbers > just over the spinner and kept them there. This makes for a very steep > decent and thinking about it could really cause a problem if you cut it too > close on the fuel and only have a few gallons in one tank left. > > > At 10:09 AM 8/8/03 -0400, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > > > >In a message dated 08/08/2003 9:22:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes: > > > > > >> On a steep > >> decent with 3~5 gallons in the tank all that fuel could flow forward and > >> then you would be sucking air. Wonder if this is what happened? What > would > >> be really interesting is to put say 5 gallons in the tank and then lift > the > >> tail which would equal 10? degrees nose down and see if you can still > pull > >> fuel. > >> > > > >Okay, but I don't make any descents on final that way. I try to get the > >plane slowed down to the back side of the power curve (1.3 x Vso), so it's > >more > >like 10 degrees nose UP for a steep descent, and if it needs to be steeper > >still, just pull the stick back more... > > > >-Bill B > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:49 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Engine Crankcase Breather --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Has anyone out there using Aircraft Spruce's homebuilder's air/oil separator on an O-360 had any problems because of the smaller breather hose (5/8 I.D.) it is made for vs the 3/4 I.D. breather hose that the factory engines are set up for? Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:34 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I called the factory and asked about pitch angle and uncovering the pick up. They have never heard of it being a problem and "thought" a couple gallons would be fine. Thanks for sharing this situation/info with us, especially the decent rate with engine out. At 02:29 PM 8/8/03 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > >No, Scott, you certainly aren't knocking my approaches, you're describing >them :-) >I, too, was taught by the Great Santini, er, Seegar. I think we have a >failure to communicate... > >Whether one flies airspeed or pitch attitude on final probably makes little >practical difference... I would guess you are seeing 65-70 mph IAS on final, >just as I am, with full flaps and that trademark steep RV approach. My prime >beef with this RV landing characteristic is that the nose will often obscure >the >touchdown point since it must be held so high. The bottom line is: I never, >ever worry on final about fuel being too far forward in the tanks to reach the >pickup tube... a pitch attitude sufficient to do that would put my airspeed >well above the white arc in no time at all. > >I'm not sure what part of this technique is supposed to be especailly >problematic in regards to a low fuel situation. Just remember to do any >slips away >from the tank you've selected. I typically land using the right tank, and >make >any slips with left bank and right rudder. Fuel pressure goes up 1 psi just >from the ram effect (just kidding there!!!) > >-Bill B >do not archive > >> Not knocking your approaches its just thats not the way I was taught by >> Mike S. We came in high, engine at idle and full flaps, put the numbers >> just over the spinner and kept them there. This makes for a very steep >> decent and thinking about it could really cause a problem if you cut it too >> close on the fuel and only have a few gallons in one tank left. >> >> >> At 10:09 AM 8/8/03 -0400, you wrote: >> >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com >> > >> >In a message dated 08/08/2003 9:22:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >> >bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes: >> > >> > >> >> On a steep >> >> decent with 3~5 gallons in the tank all that fuel could flow forward and >> >> then you would be sucking air. Wonder if this is what happened? What >> would >> >> be really interesting is to put say 5 gallons in the tank and then lift >> the >> >> tail which would equal 10? degrees nose down and see if you can still >> pull >> >> fuel. >> >> >> > >> >Okay, but I don't make any descents on final that way. I try to get the >> >plane slowed down to the back side of the power curve (1.3 x Vso), so it's >> >more >> >like 10 degrees nose UP for a steep descent, and if it needs to be steeper >> >still, just pull the stick back more... >> > >> >-Bill B >> > >> > >> >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:39 PM PST US From: "Chuck Weyant" Subject: RV-List: 4" Alternator Pulley --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" Anyone know what happened to Josh who made the 4 inch alternator pulleys for the Nindenso Alternator? Or better yet, how to get hold of one. Spruce doesn't carry them anymore and I think I'd like one to slow down the alternator speed. Chuck ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:33 PM PST US From: "Pat Perry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Perry" >Since Lycoming PREHEATS the intake air through the oil sump, it is >exceedingly >rare that carb ice is ever the real culprit. Like one fella told me... >in 50 years of >flying Lycomings, only twice did he have any need for carb heat. > whoa! This is a new take on where carb ice forms.....I thought it formed at the venturi in the carb long before the mixture passes through the tubes in the oil sump. Doesn't it collect right about where the ice probe is attached? I also thought Lycomings were especially prone to carb ice because of 4 large cylinders sucking large volumes of air in short-fast cycles. Please explain.... Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 N154PK Flies great! >From: RV3 >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:31:42 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 > >Jerry Springer wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > > >Cash, glad all ended well, while bending an airplane is not good, coming > >away unhurt from an off airport landing means it ended well. > >Was wondering do you have an idea what OAT was at the time? which > >exhaust do you have, cross-over or? > > > >Jerry > > >Since Lycoming PREHEATS the intake air through the oil sump, it is >exceedingly >rare that carb ice is ever the real culprit. Like one fella told me... >in 50 years of >flying Lycomings, only twice did he have any need for carb heat. > >YMMV. > >Continental engines are a whole 'nuther story. > >I have never had need of carb heat in my Lycoming, yet. When the engine has >quit, it never was a carb ice problem. The last issue for me was >improper venting >of the fuel tank. Another time, switching tanks must have unported the >fuel pickup >while I was IFR on final The engine sputtered all the way to the >ground, but did >put out enough power to effect a safe landing, but it was scary. Never >again will >I be switching tanks on final approach.... IFR or otherwise. > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:22 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" This switching tanks issue is why I *love* the fuel system on my -4. Engine always draws fuel from the left tank. When I want to even the load I turn on a Facit transfer pump which fills the left from the right. No fuel selector valve. If I'm low on fuel I dump it all in the left tank. Very comforting to know that I'll crash with no usable fuel : -) and totally eliminates the "do I risk engine sputter now or later" conundrum. Tracy Crook ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Airport Landing / switching tanks > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > I was thinking the same thing, why switch from a known good fuel source to > a unknown, for lack of a better term. Then I thought about it, On a steep > decent with 3~5 gallons in the tank all that fuel could flow forward and > then you would be sucking air. Wonder if this is what happened? What would > be really interesting is to put say 5 gallons in the tank and then lift the > tail which would equal 10? degrees nose down and see if you can still pull > fuel. > > Scott Bilinski > At 08:45 PM 8/7/03 -0400, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV6ator@aol.com > > > >If the engine is running on a good tank with suffficient fuel prior to > >takeoff or landing--don't screw with it! Leave the fuel selector where it > >is. Switch > >tanks at a safe altitude. > > > >Bill Mahoney > >Sherman, CT > >RV-6 N747W > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:55 PM PST US From: "Scott" Subject: RV-List: First Flight N757X RV-7A --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott" At approximately 3 PM, RV-7A, N757X made its maiden flight of about .7 hrs at Martin State Airport in Baltimore, MD. No surprises...a tad left wing heavy. Now I can breathe again! At this point I would be totally remiss if I were not to thank the people that made this flight possible. Jack Fromm(an RV-8 Builder), who has the most hands-on helping with the plane and who spent an enourmous amount of hours these last weeks getting me through inspection and first flight. Mitch(Chip) Lock(flying RV-7) who by far and away has the most time in answering my stupid questions and who helped get my wing spars aligned when they were off from the Phillipines. And last but by no means least Mike Slate, friend and business partner who is responsible for all the stuff you really see...windshield fairing, canopy fit, cowl fit, wheel pants...not to mention getting the plane painted for me... Guys, I cannot thank you enough !!! Scott Rosenberger N757X FLYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:14 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Off Airport Landing --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" * RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com With the prop windmilling there was not enough oil pressure to hold the prop in coarse pitch. It automatically went to fine pitch. Cash This part troubles me. Somewhere I was lead to believe that there WOULD be enough oil pressure to keep the prop in coarse pitch. Was it a Hartzell? Would another constant speed prop behave any differently? Congratulations on having and using the skill to get it on the ground safely. Terry RV-8A Hung the Aerosport IO-360 B1B last night ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:38 PM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:4" Alternator Pulley --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com Mark Landoll has them. Ph: 405-393-3847. He does the Harmonic Dampeners for Lyc. engines ( Mine works great ) and is in the Sport Aviation classified adds under "Propellers". Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:17 PM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Low fuel level indicator --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" Latly there has been some discussion about a low fuel level indicator. With a sender already in the tanks (capacitor or resistor), it seemes to me there is no need for much more. In fact, take a look at the following : http://www.stores.yahoo.com/nisongerautomarine/monitoring-instruments-redline-warning-series--electrical-.html (make sure you have it all in one line). Amit, 7 FWF/Finishing. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:30 PM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Re: Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any interest???? --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" The Ritchie M2, which is discontinued, has a white on blue face. I got one of the last ones out there, for $99.77 (sale price) from West Marine. if you call them they can try and locate a unit in a store close to you. Call 1-800-boating (262 8464) and ask for part number 239320. If you want a black and white face (either black on white or white on black) and are willing to pay $100 more (US$195) look it up on: http://www.stores.yahoo.com/nisongerautomarine/compasses.html The size is slightly different than a regular aviation 2.25". Amit. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:03 PM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Re: Oshkosh RV-6 accident --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" The RV-6 is already in Aurora, I saw them unloading it from the U-haul truck this morning. do not archive Amit. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:59 PM PST US From: "Mitch Faatz" Subject: Re: RV-List: Low fuel level indicator --> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" But that will start flashing on, off, on, off for the 20 minutes that the fuel level is around the trigger point of the switch. The dampening they mention won't help much. But yes, it's a very cheap solution if you don't mind all the flashing. Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA >Latly there has been some discussion about a low fuel level indicator. >With a sender already in the tanks (capacitor or resistor), it seemes to me >there is no need for much more. > >In fact, take a look at the following : > >http://www.stores.yahoo.com/nisongerautomarine/monitoring-instruments-redline-warning-series--electrical-.html > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:46 PM PST US From: "Jerry Calvert" Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" Earl's has -3 brake hoses with AN fitting on one end and banjo fitting on the other. There is a 1/8"NPT bolt to attach it to the caliper. Earl's fittings can also be used for your fuel and oil lines. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC res You have to order the catalog at : http://my.coredcs.com/~wmeng/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Embree" Subject: Re: RV-List: flexible brake lines > --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree > > I am also interested in a flexible line setup. A fellow builder just > completed a 6a and was doing some high speed taxi testing. With heavy > braking he experienced the groaning and vibration reported here before. > The next day in the hangar, he noticed brake fluid on the floor beneath > this section of aluminum tubing. It had cracked on the inside of the bend. > > The caliper is held in place by pins that allow it to float freely > sideways. When the break pads are not tight against the rotor the > caliper can be moved around quite a bit and is restricted in movement > partly by the aluminum break line. So, any movement of the caliper is > tranfered directly to the brake line. Bending metals causes them to > strain harden which is not what you want for something that could be > exposed to severe vibrations. I am interested in where you got your > fittings etc, (pictures?). > > Roger Embree > RV4 C-GIRH 140 hrs > > Jerry Calvert wrote: > > >I am considering using flexible brake lines from the caliper to the aluminum line. I have found brake lines that have a banjo fitting that would attach to the caliper. > > > >Anyone have experience with this setup? Trying to determine if there is any problems with this arrangement. > > > >Thanks, > >Jerry Calvert > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:11 PM PST US From: Thomas Velvick Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot --> RV-List message posted by: Thomas Velvick I have been beta testing the EZ Pilot digital autopilot from Trio Avionics (www.trioavionics.com). It replaces the Navaid AP gyro with a new digital head that has a lot more capabilities (if you dont already have a Navaid, they will also include a servo). It understands the NMEA sentence format from handheld GPSs as well as the aviation format sentence from panel mount GPSs. This means you can get rid of your smart coupler to connect a handheld gps. Since the EZ Pilot reads the complete sentence output from the GPS it knows exactly where it is in relation to the waypoints, not just the cross track error like the Navaid uses. This allows it to fly the flight plan and anticipate each waypoint as well as to fly intercepts and course reversals. The AP also has a two line digital display that shows several parameters at one time such as ETE, GPS groundspeed, Distance to Waypoint, ETC. In actual practice, my EZ Pilot AP is now working excellent and handles turbulence better than the Navaid does. Its also nice to look at the display and see your course compared to the bearing to the waypoint and the distance in hundredth of a mile you are off the centerline. It is normally flying within 0 to 50 feet of the centerline. An additional digital gyro module is being developed as an option for enhanced turbulence control. There are other features that I haven't talked about. So if you are in the market for a digital autopilot or want to upgrade your Navaid, here's another option. Regards, Tom Velvick N53KT RV-4 N188KJ RV-6a wiring. d ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:11 PM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: Re: RV-List: First Flight N757X RV-7A --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Scott, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (190 hrs) >From: "Scott" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: , , > >Subject: RV-List: First Flight N757X RV-7A >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:29:34 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott" > >At approximately 3 PM, RV-7A, N757X made its maiden flight of about .7 hrs >at Martin State Airport in Baltimore, MD. No surprises...a tad left wing >heavy. Now I can breathe again! > >At this point I would be totally remiss if I were not to thank the people >that made this flight possible. Jack Fromm(an RV-8 Builder), who has the >most hands-on helping with the plane and who spent an enourmous amount of >hours these last weeks getting me through inspection and first flight. >Mitch(Chip) Lock(flying RV-7) who by far and away has the most time in >answering my stupid questions and who helped get my wing spars aligned when >they were off from the Phillipines. And last but by no means least Mike >Slate, friend and business partner who is responsible for all the stuff you >really see...windshield fairing, canopy fit, cowl fit, wheel pants...not to >mention getting the plane painted for me... Guys, I cannot thank you enough >!!! > >Scott Rosenberger >N757X FLYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:31 PM PST US From: eregensburg Subject: RV-List: RV6A - 2 partners wanted --> RV-List message posted by: eregensburg Attention RV builders in NC . Here's agreat way to build RV time while still building YOUR plane. N925RV is my fully IFR RV6A. We are based in North Carolina. The plane is kept at BUY - Burlington NC . I am buying a Cessna 210 (need room for a few people with golf clubs)and am willing to sell 2 - 1/3shares in N925RV with the agreement to buy the shares back once you finish building your plane. Details & costs to be discussed and agreed to in person. If interested let me know. (Respond direct/off list) Ed Regensburg eregensburg@triad.rr.com 336-275-3009 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:46 PM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: RV-List: Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee ..until you read this! Control surfaces that use the AEX wedge and double flush trailing edge rivets --7, 8, 9 rudders and 9 elevators and ailerons. The article that Jim Cone put on the RV-Lists photo share on July 29th is worth its weight in gold..or at least its weight in tail feather skins! If you are going to do your rudder or elevators this weekend DON'T UNTIL YOU READ JIM'S CONE'S ARTICLE! I just finished one of my elevator trailing edges for the -9A this afternoon and you almost can't tell which is the shop head and which is the manufactured head on the rivets! I'll post some pictures later tonight, IT'S REALLY THAT GOOD. There is a dark cloud to this silver lining..now I'm going to have to buy new rudder skins so my TAIL FEATHERS WILL MATCH. It was posted in a photo share last week. Here is a copy: A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Cone RV-List,RV3-List,RV4-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List,RV10-List Subject: Nice Straight Edge... http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.07.29.2003/index.html Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:43 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any interest???? --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Amit is correct. [Thanks AMit for the additonal info.] I want to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR ... Ritchie stopped making the units. Also, I am testing the need here ONLY because I was asked if I wanted to by a dozen when I called to see what was the deal. I already have mine mounted and over 180 hours on it. I also already have a spare. Since a few people asked about them (including at OSH) I figured I would test the waters so I did not end up making a purchase of something I did not need and nobody else did either. Anyone who has expressed an interest and would prefer the units listed below, PLEASE let me know. I will in NO WAY be offended as I am just trying to help out. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Amit Dagan > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:50 PM > To: rv-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Ritchie M2 electronic compasses ... any > interest???? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" > > The Ritchie M2, which is discontinued, has a white on blue face. > I got one > of the last ones out there, for $99.77 (sale price) from West > Marine. if you > call them they can try and locate a unit in a store close to you. > Call 1-800-boating (262 8464) and ask for part number 239320. > > If you want a black and white face (either black on white or > white on black) > and are willing to pay $100 more (US$195) look it up on: > http://www.stores.yahoo.com/nisongerautomarine/compasses.html > > The size is slightly different than a regular aviation 2.25". > > Amit. > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:47 PM PST US From: "C J Heitman" Subject: RV-List: need dimensions for 3ATI panel cutout --> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" Does anyone know where I can find a dimensioned drawing of the proper panel cutout for a 3-ATI instrument (as used on items such as a Sandel HSI - a square cutout with the corners cut at 45 degrees). No luck with an archive search or with a google search. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html --- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:48 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Crankcase Breather --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 8/8/2003 11:52:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HCRV6@aol.com writes: > Has anyone out there using Aircraft Spruce's homebuilder's air/oil > separator > on an O-360 had any problems because of the smaller breather hose (5/8 I.D.) > > it is made for vs the 3/4 I.D. breather hose that the factory engines are > set > up for? > Harry- Mine is the 5/8" and I converted the fitting on the engine to an AN one that's also 5/8" to match, but if you want the 3/4" one that's otherwise identical you can get it from Wicks. Don't know why ACS doesn't carry them. FYI, the breather port on the big 6 cylinder Continentals is also 5/8". -GV (RV-6A N1GV 642hrs) ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:25 PM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: RV-List: RESULTS-Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee Here's a quick and dirty page to show the results of using Jim Cone's trailing edge rivet method. It's just the left elevator so it's a short section. I'm going to do the right elevator probably on Saturday using this method and I'll post the continuing results. http://home.teleport.com/~dianas-rv9a/ConLogE/ConLogE_trailingedge.html Mike Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:05 PM PST US From: Todd Houg Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP --> RV-List message posted by: Todd Houg Micheal, That technique works great! I discovered that technique about 2 1/2 years ago when I was building my -9 rudder. I'm not sure if Jim picked it up from my page or thought it up himself - brilliant minds think alike you know! (Now isn't that arrogant! ;o) ) I recently borrowed my modified set to another -9 builder to do the same. You can use it for the flaps and ailerons(on a -9) also because they use the same AEX wedge with the same angle. There's more details on my website at www.toddhoug.com - select "Squeezing double flush rivets" from the menu window on the left. Good Luck, Todd Houg 90196 - slow slow build -----Original Message----- From: Michael McGee Subject: RV-List: Empennage/Aileron builders--STOP --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee .until you read this! Control surfaces that use the AEX wedge and double flush trailing edge rivets --7, 8, 9 rudders and 9 elevators and ailerons. The article that Jim Cone put on the RV-Lists photo share on July 29th is worth its weight in gold..or at least its weight in tail feather skins! If you are going to do your rudder or elevators this weekend DON'T UNTIL YOU READ JIM'S CONE'S ARTICLE! I just finished one of my elevator trailing edges for the -9A this afternoon and you almost can't tell which is the shop head and which is the manufactured head on the rivets! I'll post some pictures later tonight, IT'S REALLY THAT GOOD. There is a dark cloud to this silver lining..now I'm going to have to buy new rudder skins so my TAIL FEATHERS WILL MATCH. It was posted in a photo share last week. Here is a copy: A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Cone RV-List,RV3-List,RV4-List,RV6-List,RV7-List,RV8-List,RV9-List,RV10-List Subject: Nice Straight Edge... http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.07.29.2003/index.html Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode eJ8+IgsGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAsAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJ2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbQBTTVRQAHJ2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AAzABAAAAFgAAAHJ2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw AQAAABgAAAAncnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOlJWLUxJU1RA TUFUUk9OSUNTLkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAFgAAAHJ2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbQAAAAIB918BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHJ2LWxpc3RAbWF0 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