---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/10/03: 46 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:08 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot (George McNutt) 2. 04:02 AM - Re: Dynon Shipped (Kevin Horton) 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Oshkosh RV-6 accident (Cy Galley) 4. 06:42 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (david.keck@amd.com) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot (Jim Oke) 6. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 7. 07:00 AM - Re: Re:MK-319-BS Shank Size (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 8. 07:12 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 9. 07:29 AM - Re: Cardinal Paint (Steve Struyk) 10. 08:02 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Gert) 11. 08:03 AM - Re: Dynon and IFR (Donald Mei) 12. 08:14 AM - Re: Tire Wear (Cy Galley) 13. 08:14 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Jeff Orear) 14. 08:15 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Alex Peterson) 15. 08:20 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Jeff Orear) 16. 08:22 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Larry Bowen) 17. 08:26 AM - Re: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions () 18. 08:26 AM - Re: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions () 19. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware (Lenleg@aol.com) 20. 09:09 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Jim Oke) 21. 09:19 AM - Max Height of Avionics Stack in -7A Slider (Jack Lockamy) 22. 09:31 AM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (David Burton) 23. 12:32 PM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (kempthornes) 24. 12:39 PM - Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot (Thomas Velvick) 25. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware () 26. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Dynon and IFR (Gil Alexander) 27. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot (Gary & Carolyn Zilik) 28. 02:22 PM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (mstewart@qa.butler.com) 29. 02:55 PM - Re: Tire Wear (RV3) 30. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Dynon and IFR (Patrick) 31. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Dynon and IFR (Jerry Springer) 32. 04:06 PM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Greg Young) 33. 04:25 PM - Re: MK-319-BS Shank Size? (William Davis) 34. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware () 35. 07:02 PM - Nylon T fitting that goes to break res. (Karie Daniel) 36. 07:03 PM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (Gert) 37. 07:27 PM - pitot tube routing (Dave Ford) 38. 08:02 PM - Re: MK-319-BS Shank Size? (Richard Dudley) 39. 08:10 PM - Re: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. (David Burton) 40. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware (Michael McGee) 41. 08:51 PM - Prop weight was Re: Tire Wear (Michael McGee) 42. 08:54 PM - Control stick bushings (Geoff Evans) 43. 08:59 PM - Used Navaid Test? () 44. 09:12 PM - Re: pitot tube routing (Jim Oke) 45. 10:08 PM - Re: grommet question (Jim Jewell) 46. 10:08 PM - Re: Prop weight was Re: Tire Wear (RV3) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:16 AM PST US From: "George McNutt" Subject: RE: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan George McNutt wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" > > Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot > > --> RV-List message posted by: Thomas Velvick > > I have been beta testing the EZ Pilot digital autopilot from Trio Avionics > (www.trioavionics.com). It replaces the Navaid > AP gyro with a new digital head that has a lot more capabilities (if you > dont already have a Navaid, they will also include a servo). > > Hi Tom > > Had a quick look at their web site and it looks like the one (essential to > me) thing it cannot do is provide turn & bank info. Here is a quote from the web site: "A convenient Display switch allows the pilot to read the Waypoint Designator, Ground Speed, Distance to Waypoint, Time to Waypoint, and a graphic Turn Coordinator." Sam Buchanan Thanks Sam I noticed that later when I took a closer look at the web page. Wonder how the turn info is derived. George McNutt Langley B.C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:47 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon Shipped --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton At 22:28 -0500 9/8/03, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > >> >>>Uhhh, has anyone else had this thought: sounds like an awful lot of >>>people are building IFR RV's out there with all these Dynons being >>>ordered. This is a good thing, if true. >>> >> Frankly that is the last place I would put one, in an IFR RV. >> That is a bad thing IMO if true. >> >> > >I don't know much about Dynon's system. However, I do know a lot about >component design and system design. There are a lot of dead guys behind >the evolution of many designs in aviation, airframes and systems. One >does need to be quite humble to where the certified industry has evolved >to over the years. It is very easy to chuck rocks at their "antiquated" >methodology, and jump to new stuff. No problem with VFR, but altogether >different for IFR. > >That being said, I am certainly not saying we should not use new >technology. I only caution those who do make leaps of technology to be >very, very aware of how small changes to a design, system, etc., usually >have unforeseen consequences. These unforeseen consequences can be >nasty, and I've never seen a design change that didn't have surprises. >It is quite easy to point to accidents caused by mechanical gyro >failures and conclude we just need to replace them with something else. >Keep in mind, in doing this "analysis", that the area under the >cumulative time in use of vacuum gyros combined with electric TC/TB (for >example) is huge, while the total time the newcomers (Dynon) have is >quite limited, probably one millionth as much time. > >Something to think about - the temptation to believe that a design >change will be an overall improvement is overwhelming, but experience >tells otherwise. Systems like Dynon's are clearly where the future is, >but expect turbulence and dead guys along the way. > >Alex Peterson If you are going to use a Dynon for IFR, you should equip your aircraft so that a total failure of the Dynon leaves you no worse off than a failure of a vacuum pump or electrical system on a more conventionally equipped aircraft. You also need to assume that the Dynon could start displaying misleading info at any time. I'm intending to install a Dynon, and I intend to eventually fly it IFR. But I am only using the Dynon to replace the AI and DG, and I will do a lot of testing before I head into a cloud. I agree that we need to tread carefully. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:05 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I confess, It was me! Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" > > Listers, > > I believe it was "our" own Cy Galley who won a "Lifetime Achievement" award > at OSH this year. > > Each year, we often hear about planes that won awards but Cy (along with > about four others, including a member of our chapter) got one for doing good > stuff over many years. > > Congrats Cy!! > > And if I got this wrong ... oh well. :-) > > James > (from EAA Chapter 242) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley > > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 7:07 PM > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > It is my understanding that they boxed it up and drove it back home. > > > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org > > > > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steven Eberhart" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh RV-6 accident > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart > > > > > > Has anyone heard what they did with Van's red demonstrator RV-6 > > that was > > > involved in the runway accident at Oshkosh? Just curious if they are > > > going to replace the wing in the workshop at Pioneer field. Possibly > > > borrow a wing from the EAA young eagles RV-6 so they could > > ferry it home? > > > > > > Steve Eberhart > > > RV-7A - working on wings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:11 AM PST US From: david.keck@amd.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely burned because the girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out of the girls hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen and the pilot light on the stove ignited the lantern gas from several feet away. I believe Coleman lantern gas fumes are more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. Read the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about the vapors being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. Just a note to be careful with that stuff. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" Roger: For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts cleanup prior to priming throughout my project with very good results. A bit cheaper too. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A fuselage (waiting for finish kit) Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Evenson" Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" > > For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which solvent one uses? > Roger. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:19 AM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke George; Here is another quote from the Trio site: "Solid State Gyro Mechanical gyros have been a mainstay in aircraft instruments for years. However, they are now being strongly challenged by some very impressive solid state electronic gyros that are small enough to fit into a 1/4 inch cube. These gyros are highly responsive, accurate and not subject to the effects of mechanical wear and breakage of their mechanical ancestors. The new gyros are also different in that they do not obtain their attitude reference from gravity, but derive it from electronic signals from GPS receivers, electronic magnetic sensors or accelerometers. The EZ Pilot utilizes these new gyros to provide fast, accurate and reliable attitude information." Presumably by noting the rate of change of a suitably mounted gyro, aircraft turn rate can be derived and displayed by the EZ device. Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "George McNutt" Subject: RE: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot > --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > > George McNutt wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "George McNutt" > > > > Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Thomas Velvick > > > > I have been beta testing the EZ Pilot digital autopilot from Trio Avionics > > (www.trioavionics.com). It replaces the > Navaid > > AP gyro with a new digital head that has a lot more capabilities (if you > > dont already have a Navaid, they will also include a servo). > > > > Hi Tom > > > > Had a quick look at their web site and it looks like the one (essential to > > me) thing it cannot do is provide turn & bank info. > > > Here is a quote from the web site: > > "A convenient Display switch allows the pilot to read the Waypoint > Designator, Ground Speed, Distance to Waypoint, Time to Waypoint, and a > graphic Turn Coordinator." > > Sam Buchanan > > Thanks Sam > > I noticed that later when I took a closer look at the web page. Wonder how > the turn info is derived. > > George McNutt > Langley B.C. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:23 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Karie, I used a Kit for each Wing Tip 1 1/4 in. spacing as it adds better support for the tip to prevent tip sag after time. There are 2 other RV's in my area with the tips done this way and no sag after several years. I cut some 1/4 in. brake tube (2 pieces for Each Tip) that fit between a plate nut on the bottom and top of each tip to facilitate easy installation. You cut the tube to just allow the tip to be expanded the size of the wing end now one person can install them, plus I believe this a very light weight approach to making them hold their shape. Painting wings this week and moving them to the airport! Flying this fall!! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > I guess that's good enough for me then. :-) > > Thanks, I just wanted to make sure this was nice way to go. Just seems too > easy to me I guess! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cy Galley" > To: < > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > Well, Lyle Hefel uses the #4 screw for his wing tips and so did the Bronze > > Lindy winner Greg Klema. They look nice and are unobtrusive. > > > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org > > > > Always looking for articles for the Experimenter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karie Daniel" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > > > Since I will be moving to my QB wings shortly I purchased the Cleaveland > > wing tip attach kit (WHS-220) > > > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?numberWHS220&variatio > > n&aitem1&mitem1 > > > After receiving the kit I was surprised that these are only #4 screws. > > This seems very small to attach the wing tip? Instructions say to just > soft > > rivet plate nuts directly to the fiberglass the screw in. > > > > > > I feel pretty silly now paying $44.00 plus shipping for what looks like > > $3.00 worth of soft rivets, plate nuts and screws. Is this really a good > way > > to go? Is it going to go the distance to hold the wingtips securely for > > years to come? > > > > > > I'm not slamming Cleaveland here their great guys with great service and > > they are always excellent to deal with. I'm just wondering if I bought the > > right thing in this case. > > > > > > Karie Daniel > > > Sammamish, WA > > > RV-7A QB > > > > > > And yes, I've been busy in the garage lately. I just didn't want to pile > > 50 questions in to one mail. Thanks everyone! > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:34 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:MK-319-BS Shank Size --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Bob, I did the same thing (saw it on George's Video) and the 9/64" bit works fine although I had to run it through the hole a couple of times. I did get that drill bit a a Discount Store though. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Re:MK-319-BS Shank Size > --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com > > I found that a 9/64" bit works well with these rivets. I just tossed the > drill bit into the plastic drawer with the rivets,so I don't have to look for it > each time. > > Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor > RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now > Charleston, Arkansas > "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:02 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface (if it's to be painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or a paint prep solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > --> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com > > My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely burned because the girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out of the girls hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen and the pilot light on the stove ignited the lantern gas from several feet away. I believe Coleman lantern gas fumes are more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. Read the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about the vapors being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. > > Just a note to be careful with that stuff. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > Roger: > > For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts cleanup > prior to priming throughout my project with very good results. A bit > cheaper too. > > > Regards, > > Jeff Orear > RV6A > fuselage (waiting for finish kit) > Peshtigo, WI > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Evenson" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" > > > > For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which solvent one uses? > > Roger. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:11 AM PST US From: "Steve Struyk" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cardinal Paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" Marty, I used Cardinal's Paint but I used the stuff that comes in the one gallon cans, both primer and finish coats. I did however buy the spray cans that match perfectly with the power coat and have used that for touch-ups, and to paint things like my battery tray, battery hold down, small parts, etc. I have been impressed with durability of both the products I have used from Cardinal. I did try to paint some larger pieces with the spray cans but found it difficult to get an even uniform finish. Hope this helps Steve Struyk St. Charles, MO N842S (res.) FWF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emrath" Subject: RV-List: Cardinal Paint > --> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" > > Is anyone using the Pardinal Paint in spray cans to match Van's powder > coating on the interior of their cockpit? If so, will you please > comment as to it's durability. I may be interested in using for my > cockpit and would be interested in purchasing any cans you may not have > used or need, rather than purchasing a 6 pack from Cardinal. > > Marty in Brentwood, TN > Do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:40 AM PST US From: Gert Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Hmm, this is strange, I never used it myself, but, it has been touted as a good cleaner for, of all things, pre-proseal cleaner. If it left an oily residue, it would be the worst thing to use for proseal. Gert Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" > > Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface (if it's to be > painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or a paint prep > solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. > > Tom in Ohio > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com >> >>My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely burned because the >> > girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out of the girls > hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen and the pilot light on the > stove ignited the lantern gas from several feet away. I believe Coleman > lantern gas fumes are more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. > Read the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about the vapors > being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. > >>Just a note to be careful with that stuff. >> >>Dave >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? >> >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" >> >>Roger: >> >>For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts cleanup >>prior to priming throughout my project with very good results. A bit >>cheaper too. >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Jeff Orear >>RV6A >>fuselage (waiting for finish kit) >>Peshtigo, WI >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Roger Evenson" >>To: >>Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" >>> >>>For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which solvent one >>> > uses? > >>>Roger. >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:43 AM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: RE: Dynon and IFR --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" Someone stated that there seem to be a lot of IFR RVs going together based on the enthusiasm for the Dynon. Well, have no intention of turning my RV into an IFR airplane, which is precisely why I got the Dynon. My logic was as follows: I am not an Instrument rated pilot. I don't intend to get my instrument rating anytime soon. I however do enjoy flying at night, and do it a lot. With that said, I want to keep my RV light, like God and Vans intended. I have refused to put a vacume system in my airplane for the added backup an AI and DG can provide. I have toyed with the idea of putting in an electric AI, but countless stories of problems as well as the high price have kept me from acting. ($1800 and it may need to be rebuilt for $1200 every couple of years) So the Dynon comes along. I'd like the safety of an AI in an Oh Sh_t situation. It is reasonably priced. Has battery backup, since my plane's electrical system has no designed in redundancy or fault tolerance, and it slides right into a standard 3" instrument hole. It is a nearly perfect instrument for MY needs. Light, simple to retrofit, inexpensive. With that said, I would not purchase a dynon as my primary attitude instrument if I were building an IFR aircraft. The fact that it needs air data to maintain attitude is a problem in that area. The exact conditions that are likely to cause problems for the Dynon (pitot icing) are the conditions where you REALLY need to depend on your AI. There's been a lot of talk about the Dynon VS the Grand Rapids EFIS. Pointless in my opinion. The Grand Rapids EFIS costs almost THREE TIMES AS MUCH. I am not saying it isn't worth it, but its a different market. If I were building an IFR RV I might use the GR product for primary and Dynon for backup. Then again I might use a vacume AI with the Dynon as backup. Either way, the Dynon, GR and Blue mountain offerings all fill different needs. Make a list of your requirements, list the pros and cons of each system and purchase the one that most meets your needs as well as the restricitions of your wallet. Hope this helps. Best regards, Don Mei ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:29 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire Wear --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Why not turn down the idle? It will help you landings as well. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV3" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire Wear > --> RV-List message posted by: RV3 > > > >Hah...taildragger ain't no excuse either . I have 43 novice > >taildragger hours on my RV-6, lots of pattern work and landings, > >Aerotrainers (and brake pads) still look new. > > > >Personally, I think its people riding the brakes. I find the only time I > >need brakes is for stopping from a taxi, for tight turns, and for runup. > >You just don't need them any other time during normal ops. > > > >Rob Acker (RV-6 flying) > >do not archive > > > ============================================ > > I'm a ;-) novice with 8000 hours and 50 years in taildraggers. > > My RV-3, even at a 750 rpm idle, wants to run faster than > is smart to taxi on HARD SURFACE, so brakes MUST be > applied every now and then for safety's sake. > > YMMV. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:54 AM PST US From: "Jeff Orear" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" Dave: Exactly why I only use it either in my opened garage or out in the driveway, and it is stored in the garage. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A fuselage (waiting for finish kit) Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > --> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com > > My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely burned because the girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out of the girls hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen and the pilot light on the stove ignited the lantern gas from several feet away. I believe Coleman lantern gas fumes are more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. Read the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about the vapors being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. > > Just a note to be careful with that stuff. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > Roger: > > For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts cleanup > prior to priming throughout my project with very good results. A bit > cheaper too. > > > Regards, > > Jeff Orear > RV6A > fuselage (waiting for finish kit) > Peshtigo, WI > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Evenson" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" > > > > For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which solvent one uses? > > Roger. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:44 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface > (if it's to be > painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or > a paint prep solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. Interesting. Put some Coleman fuel on a glass slide and do the same with lacquer thinner, and look at the residuals. Lacquer thinner actually has a little oil in it to slow evaporation, while Coleman fuel is without oil, just comprised of naphtha. It does seem to decompose into something slimy, however. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 337 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:55 AM PST US From: "Jeff Orear" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" Gert: I have never noticed any oily residue while using Coleman Lantern fluid (Naphtha). I have had no trouble with primer adhereing. I did not use it on my tanks.....I found that xylol did a really good job there. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A fuselage (waiting for finish kit) Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gert" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > --> RV-List message posted by: Gert > > Hmm, this is strange, I never used it myself, but, it has been touted as > a good cleaner for, of all things, pre-proseal cleaner. If it left an > oily residue, it would be the worst thing to use for proseal. > > Gert > > Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" > > > > Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface (if it's to be > > painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or a paint prep > > solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. > > > > Tom in Ohio > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > > > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com > >> > >>My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely burned because the > >> > > girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out of the girls > > hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen and the pilot light on the > > stove ignited the lantern gas from several feet away. I believe Coleman > > lantern gas fumes are more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. > > Read the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about the vapors > > being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. > > > >>Just a note to be careful with that stuff. > >> > >>Dave > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] > >>To: rv-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > >> > >> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > >> > >>Roger: > >> > >>For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts cleanup > >>prior to priming throughout my project with very good results. A bit > >>cheaper too. > >> > >> > >>Regards, > >> > >>Jeff Orear > >>RV6A > >>fuselage (waiting for finish kit) > >>Peshtigo, WI > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Roger Evenson" > >>To: > >>Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" > >>> > >>>For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which solvent one > >>> > > uses? > > > >>>Roger. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:37 AM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I haven't noticed any problems with paint sticking. I have been using it since the beginning. All solvents have their dangers and should be used with care and common sense, of course. - Larry Bowen, RV-8 systems. Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom & Cathy Ervin [mailto:tcervin@valkyrie.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:11 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" > --> > > Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface > (if it's to be > painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or > a paint prep solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. > > Tom in Ohio > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com > > > > My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely > burned because > > the > girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out > of the girls hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen > and the pilot light on the stove ignited the lantern gas from > several feet away. I believe Coleman lantern gas fumes are > more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. Read > the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about > the vapors being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. > > > > Just a note to be careful with that stuff. > > > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > > > Roger: > > > > For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts > > cleanup prior to priming throughout my project with very > good results. > > A bit cheaper too. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff Orear > > RV6A > > fuselage (waiting for finish kit) > > Peshtigo, WI > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Roger Evenson" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" > > > --> > > > > > > For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which > solvent one > uses? > > > Roger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions From: --> RV-List message posted by: Suggest measuring your sender case to airframe grounding first to determine if "better" grounding is possible or required. My Van's senders (oil & fuel pressure) are mounted on the anodized manifold, measured resistance from sender cases to single point ground is in the milliohm range. No "better" grounding possible or required. Rob Acker (RV-6, 43hrs Van's gauges working perfectly) do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID DAVENPORT" > > > Many of you in the past have stated that Van's oil pressure sender needs > to be grounded better than that provided by the anodized aluminum > manifold block it mounts on. My question is, how have you guys been > acheiving a better ground? I am presently getting around a 40-45 PSI > indication regardless of RPM's. The oil line going to the sending unit > is filled with fluid, so that solution has already been applied, > resulting in about a 5-7 PSI increase. Has anyone been using these > guages for a while now and is acheiving good reliability? From all that > is in the archives, one has to wonder. Thanks in advance for any help. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions From: --> RV-List message posted by: Suggest measuring your sender case to airframe grounding first to determine if "better" grounding is possible or required. My Van's senders (oil & fuel pressure) are mounted on the anodized manifold, measured resistance from sender cases to single point ground is in the milliohm range. No "better" grounding possible or required. Rob Acker (RV-6, 43hrs Van's gauges working perfectly) do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID DAVENPORT" > > > Many of you in the past have stated that Van's oil pressure sender needs > to be grounded better than that provided by the anodized aluminum > manifold block it mounts on. My question is, how have you guys been > acheiving a better ground? I am presently getting around a 40-45 PSI > indication regardless of RPM's. The oil line going to the sending unit > is filled with fluid, so that solution has already been applied, > resulting in about a 5-7 PSI increase. Has anyone been using these > guages for a while now and is acheiving good reliability? From all that > is in the archives, one has to wonder. Thanks in advance for any help. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:25 AM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com In a message dated 8/9/2003 9:21:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, karie4@comcast.net writes: > Since I will be moving to my QB wings shortly I purchased the Cleaveland > wing tip attach kit (WHS-220) > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?numberWHS220&variation&aitem1&mitem1 > After receiving the kit I was surprised that these are only #4 screws. This > seems very small to attach the wing tip? Instructions say to just soft rivet > plate nuts directly to the fiberglass the screw in. > > I feel pretty silly now paying $44.00 plus shipping for what looks like > $3.00 worth of soft rivets, plate nuts and screws. Is this really a good way to > go? Is it going to go the distance to hold the wingtips securely for years to > come? > > I'm not slamming Cleaveland here their great guys with great service and > they are always excellent to deal with. I'm just wondering if I bought the right > thing in this case. > > Karie Daniel > Sammamish, WA > RV-7A QB > I used the same kit from Cleveland based on seeing Louis Smiths plane (one of the first 8s to fly). I probably would use #6 if I had it to do again but the #4s worked out okay. You simply have to throw the screws away after using them once. The threads don't seem to hold up to mutiple times in and out. As far as holding the tips on ... they aren't going anywhere without the rest of the plane !!! Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 116 hrs ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:10 AM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke One rumour that I have heard is that Coleman adds a bit of oil to their product to lubricate the innards of stoves, lanterns, etc. so that you are not getting straight naphtha. Could be wrong, could be urban legend stuff, or could be the amount of oil added is so small as to be unimportant. The paint prep cleaning stuff works well and is reasonably inexpensive. Watch the fumes for health reasons however.... Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > > Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface > > (if it's to be > > painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or > > a paint prep solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. > > > Interesting. Put some Coleman fuel on a glass slide and do the same > with lacquer thinner, and look at the residuals. Lacquer thinner > actually has a little oil in it to slow evaporation, while Coleman fuel > is without oil, just comprised of naphtha. It does seem to decompose > into something slimy, however. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 337 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:54 AM PST US From: "Jack Lockamy" Subject: RV-List: Max Height of Avionics Stack in -7A Slider --> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" Does any know what the maximum height of the avionics stack in a -7A w/slider could be with Van's stock instrument panel? My audio panel, two comms, and transponder are a 5.53" tall. Trying to determine if I can add a 4.5" tall Engine Monitor to the stack for a total of 10.3". TIA, Jack Lockamy Camarillo, CA RV-7AQB N174JL reserved ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:23 AM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" Coleman fuel is Naphtha and its ingredients are not regulated. It can have any kind of crap in it. Naphtha often contains Benzene which is a carcinogen. It also contains rust inhibitors and stabilizers which may not be compatible with paint and are actually intended to LEAVE a residue, to keep the inside of your stove or lantern from rusting.... Many other thinners such as lacquer thinner are carcinogenic or harmful to your health. Consider using Acetone which has low health hazard, is cheap and works as well as most cleaners to remove oily residue, paint and other contamination. If you feel that you must use one of the more dangerous chemicals to get the surface super clean, use it as a final cleaner after using acetone. It's not an accident that your wife's finger nail polish remover is nothing but acetone. It is a relatively safe solvent. Many others are very dangerous and there is little reason to use them. What we don't know can hurt us... Any question about any product like this- Check the MSDS for it on the internet. The answer is a click away. David Burton University Medical Center Seattle RV6-wings ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:14 PM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes Good words, David. Am I right in my understanding that MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) is even better than acetone? Water is a superb solvent. Use the clean stuff of course. Hot is better than cold - probably true of most solvents. I figure on removing oil and grease with stoddard solvent which I buy as cheapo mineral spirits paint thinner. I believe it is pretty safe if not inhaled for days on end. Check it out at www.atsdr.cdc.gov along with acetone,xylene and many others but not MEK. The next step is to wash with detergent & water and then rinse thoroughly. Zero residue. Hal Kempthorne At 09:36 AM 8/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > >Coleman fuel is Naphtha and its ingredients are not regulated. It can have >any kind of crap in it. Naphtha often contains Benzene which is a >carcinogen. It also contains rust inhibitors and stabilizers which may not >be compatible with paint and are actually intended to LEAVE a residue, to >keep the inside of your stove or lantern from rusting.... Many other >thinners such as lacquer thinner are carcinogenic or harmful to your health. >Consider using Acetone which has low health hazard, is cheap and works as >well as most cleaners to remove oily residue, paint and other >contamination. If you feel that you must use one of the more dangerous >chemicals to get the surface super clean, use it as a final cleaner after >using acetone. > >It's not an accident that your wife's finger nail polish remover is nothing >but acetone. It is a relatively safe solvent. Many others are very >dangerous and there is little reason to use them. What we don't know can >hurt us... > >Any question about any product like this- Check the MSDS for it on the >internet. The answer is a click away. > >David Burton >University Medical Center >Seattle >RV6-wings > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:51 PM PST US From: Thomas Velvick Subject: RV-List: Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot --> RV-List message posted by: Thomas Velvick Its has a digital turn and bank display as one of the options like the Navaid. I replaced the turn coordinator in my plane with the Navaid head so I have been flying without a turn coordinator for about a year. I am used to flying VFR without it now but would like to have it back. I plan on reinstalling my turn coordinator where my directional gyro is presently when I replace my vacuum AH and DG with a Dynon D-10 primary flight display. www.dynondevelopment.com. Regards, Tom At 11:57 PM 8/9/03 -0700, you wrote: >I have been beta testing the EZ Pilot digital autopilot from Trio Avionics >(www.trioavionics.com). It replaces the Navaid >AP gyro with a new digital head that has a lot more capabilities (if you >dont already have a Navaid, they will also include a servo). > > >Hi Tom > >Had a quick look at their web site and it looks like the one (essential to >me) thing it cannot do is provide turn & bank info. > >George McNutt >Langley B.C. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:20 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware --> RV-List message posted by: # 4 Screws with Tip-Tanks ?? How would the # 4 screws hold up if used with the optional Vans Tip Tanks (that I have sitting- & collecting dust in my garage). Would the ~9 gallons of fuel per side be to much weight to be handled by the #4's? Is there anyone out there who has the Vans Tip Tanks installed, who would like to give us their mounting solution & reasons? Thank you, Konrad ************* I used the same kit from Cleveland based on seeing Louis Smiths plane (one of the first 8s to fly). I probably would use #6 if I had it to do again but the #4s worked out okay. You simply have to throw the screws away after using them once. The threads don't seem to hold up to mutiple times in and out. As far as holding the tips on ... they aren't going anywhere without the rest of the plane !!! Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 116 hrs ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:45 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon and IFR --> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander Anyone, Doesn't the AI function depend on the Dynon internal gyros only, not any air data?? Where does air data (or lack of, due to icing) coe into the AI function? ...gil in Tucson >With that said, I would not purchase a dynon as my primary attitude >instrument if I were building an IFR aircraft. The fact that it needs air >data to maintain attitude is a problem in that area. The exact conditions >that are likely to cause problems for the Dynon (pitot icing) are the >conditions where you REALLY need to depend on your AI. > > >Don Mei > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:13 PM PST US From: Gary & Carolyn Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot --> RV-List message posted by: Gary & Carolyn Zilik Woa! The turn coordinator is the little ball in the tube. Step on the ball for coordinated turns. I do agree that the Navaid does not display bank information. It will give you a 2 minute turn if set up correctly. GZ Thomas Velvick wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Thomas Velvick > >Its has a digital turn and bank display as one of the options like the >Navaid. I replaced the turn coordinator in my plane with the Navaid head >so I have been flying without a turn coordinator for about a year. I am >used to flying VFR without it now but would like to have it back. I plan on >reinstalling my turn coordinator where my directional gyro is presently >when I replace my vacuum AH and DG with a Dynon D-10 primary flight >display. www.dynondevelopment.com. >Regards, >Tom > > >At 11:57 PM 8/9/03 -0700, you wrote: > > >>I have been beta testing the EZ Pilot digital autopilot from Trio Avionics >>(www.trioavionics.com). It replaces the Navaid >>AP gyro with a new digital head that has a lot more capabilities (if you >>dont already have a Navaid, they will also include a servo). >> >> >>Hi Tom >> >>Had a quick look at their web site and it looks like the one (essential to >>me) thing it cannot do is provide turn & bank info. >> >>George McNutt >>Langley B.C. >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:00 PM PST US From: mstewart@qa.butler.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. tests=AWL,BAYES_01,NO_REAL_NAME,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham version=2.53 --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com I used coleman throughout. Stunk. Cleaned well. Cheap. Paint still on. 1000hrs of flying. Mike Stewart Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: Larry Bowen Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I haven't noticed any problems with paint sticking. I have been using it since the beginning. All solvents have their dangers and should be used with care and common sense, of course. - Larry Bowen, RV-8 systems. Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom & Cathy Ervin [mailto:tcervin@valkyrie.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:11 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" > --> > > Remember also that Coleman Fuel is very oily and the surface > (if it's to be > painted) will have to be cleaned again with Lacuer Thinner or > a paint prep solution prior to painting for the paint to stick. > > Tom in Ohio > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: david.keck@amd.com > > > > My wife had a friend who's granddaughter was severely > burned because > > the > girls mother was using Coleman lantern gas to clean lice out > of the girls hair (duh). This was being done in the kitchen > and the pilot light on the stove ignited the lantern gas from > several feet away. I believe Coleman lantern gas fumes are > more volatile this way than other cleaning chemicals. Read > the warnings on the can and I think it mentions this about > the vapors being extremely flammable from remote ignition sources. > > > > Just a note to be careful with that stuff. > > > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeff Orear [mailto:jorear@new.rr.com] > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > > > Roger: > > > > For what it is worth, I have used Coleman lantern fluid for parts > > cleanup prior to priming throughout my project with very > good results. > > A bit cheaper too. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff Orear > > RV6A > > fuselage (waiting for finish kit) > > Peshtigo, WI > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Roger Evenson" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Roger Evenson" > > > --> > > > > > > For cleaning aluminum, does it make any difference which > solvent one > uses? > > > Roger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > Matronics Forums. > ========== > List members. > ========== > ========== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:21 PM PST US From: RV3 Subject: Re: RV-List: Tire Wear --> RV-List message posted by: RV3 Cy Galley wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > >Why not turn down the idle? It will help you landings as well. > >Cy Galley > Turn the idle down to what? Have you ever flown an 0-320 with wooden prop? Not enough flywheel mass to get much below 900 RPM without vibrating the sliding canopy off, if it's not closed and locked due to all the shake, rattle and roll. It's all academic now that I've recently swapped the 10 pound wood prop for a 26 pound metal Sensenich. YMMV. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:13 PM PST US From: Patrick Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon and IFR --> RV-List message posted by: Patrick Not that I know anything about avionics, but the guy at Osh manning the Dynon booth said they will be offering a heated pitot tube later this year. Gil Alexander wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander Anyone, Doesn't the AI function depend on the Dynon internal gyros only, not any air data?? Where does air data (or lack of, due to icing) coe into the AI function? ...gil in Tucson >With that said, I would not purchase a dynon as my primary attitude >instrument if I were building an IFR aircraft. The fact that it needs air >data to maintain attitude is a problem in that area. The exact conditions >that are likely to cause problems for the Dynon (pitot icing) are the >conditions where you REALLY need to depend on your AI. > > >Don Mei > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:42 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon and IFR --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Probably a little confusion here with the term AI sounds like some are thinking Airspeed Indicator and others are thinking Attitude Indicator? Jerry do not archive Patrick wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Patrick > >Not that I know anything about avionics, but the guy at Osh manning the Dynon booth said they will be offering a heated pitot tube later this year. > >Gil Alexander wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander > >Anyone, >Doesn't the AI function depend on the Dynon internal gyros >only, not any air data?? Where does air data (or lack of, due to icing) >coe into the AI function? > >...gil in Tucson > > > > >>With that said, I would not purchase a dynon as my primary attitude >>instrument if I were building an IFR aircraft. The fact that it needs air >>data to maintain attitude is a problem in that area. The exact conditions >>that are likely to cause problems for the Dynon (pitot icing) are the >>conditions where you REALLY need to depend on your AI. >> >> >>Don Mei >> >> >> >> > >RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... >77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ > > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:01 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Whoa Hal, MEK is nasty stuff. Much worse than acetone. I've been using denatured alcohol for almost everything. It's pretty benign unless you drink it. I tend to use the most solvent when scotchbrighting prior to priming. The alcohol is perfect for this. Safe, no residue. I wonder why I spend so many years with hands soaked in MEK and acetone before I wised up. Give it a try. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes > > Good words, David. > > Am I right in my understanding that MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) is even > better than acetone? > > Water is a superb solvent. Use the clean stuff of course. > Hot is better > than cold - probably true of most solvents. I figure on > removing oil and > grease with stoddard solvent which I buy as cheapo mineral > spirits paint > thinner. I believe it is pretty safe if not inhaled for days on > end. Check it out at www.atsdr.cdc.gov along with > acetone,xylene and many > others but not MEK. > > The next step is to wash with detergent & water and then rinse > thoroughly. Zero residue. > > Hal Kempthorne > > At 09:36 AM 8/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > > > >Coleman fuel is Naphtha and its ingredients are not > regulated. It can > >have any kind of crap in it. Naphtha often contains Benzene > which is a > >carcinogen. It also contains rust inhibitors and > stabilizers which may > >not be compatible with paint and are actually intended to LEAVE a > >residue, to keep the inside of your stove or lantern from > rusting.... > >Many other thinners such as lacquer thinner are carcinogenic > or harmful > >to your health. Consider using Acetone which has low health > hazard, is > >cheap and works as well as most cleaners to remove oily > residue, paint > >and other contamination. If you feel that you must use one > of the more > >dangerous chemicals to get the surface super clean, use it > as a final > >cleaner after using acetone. > > > >It's not an accident that your wife's finger nail polish remover is > >nothing but acetone. It is a relatively safe solvent. Many > others are > >very dangerous and there is little reason to use them. What > we don't > >know can hurt us... > > > >Any question about any product like this- Check the MSDS for > it on the > >internet. The answer is a click away. > > > >David Burton > >University Medical Center > >Seattle > >RV6-wings > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:39 PM PST US From: "William Davis" Subject: Re: RV-List: MK-319-BS Shank Size? --> RV-List message posted by: "William Davis" Karie, 7/32 is correct. Drill #33 Bill RV-8 Tiger-Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: RV-List: MK-319-BS Shank Size? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > Anyone know what the shank size of the MK-319-BS rivet is? I'm a little perplexed, seems like every bit I've tried is either slightly larger or slightly smaller for this rivet. I don't want a dimple that's too deep and hole that's too large. I called Vans and they said it was a 7/32. So either I'm looking at an entirely wrong blind rivet or Vans misunderstood my question. A 7/32 is gigantic compared to what I'm looking at as a MK-319-BS rivet. > > These are the four blind rivets you use on the trailing edge of the elevator near the trim tab, you can't get to this using a normal rivet. > > Karie Daniel > Sammamish, WA > RV-7A QB > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:52 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware --> RV-List message posted by: Do yourself a favor and just buy some -06 plate nuts and -06 screws. The -04's are a pain in the arse. I think the 6's are easier to work with and probably exponentially stronger. DArwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware > --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/9/2003 9:21:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, > karie4@comcast.net writes: > > > Since I will be moving to my QB wings shortly I purchased the Cleaveland > > wing tip attach kit (WHS-220) > > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?numberWHS220&variatio n&aitem1&mitem1 > > After receiving the kit I was surprised that these are only #4 screws. This > > seems very small to attach the wing tip? Instructions say to just soft rivet > > plate nuts directly to the fiberglass the screw in. > > > > I feel pretty silly now paying $44.00 plus shipping for what looks like > > $3.00 worth of soft rivets, plate nuts and screws. Is this really a good way to > > go? Is it going to go the distance to hold the wingtips securely for years to > > come? > > > > I'm not slamming Cleaveland here their great guys with great service and > > they are always excellent to deal with. I'm just wondering if I bought the right > > thing in this case. > > > > Karie Daniel > > Sammamish, WA > > RV-7A QB > > > > I used the same kit from Cleveland based on seeing Louis Smiths plane (one of > the first 8s to fly). I probably would use #6 if I had it to do again but > the #4s worked out okay. You simply have to throw the screws away after using > them once. The threads don't seem to hold up to mutiple times in and out. > > As far as holding the tips on ... they aren't going anywhere without the rest > of the plane !!! > > Len Leggette, RV-8A > Greensboro, NC N910LL > 116 hrs > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:56 PM PST US From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: RV-List: Nylon T fitting that goes to break res. --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" There is a nylon T fitting that goes through the firewall to the break reservoir. Do I prep the threads on this with anything? I'm guessing no since it's nylon but I want to make sure. Also, I searched the archives but didn't find much for what I would use to seal the hole where the break res goes through the firewall. Any suggestions? Proseal is ugly to deal with for such a small area. Thanks, Karie Daniel Sammamish, WA. BTW....Thanks for everyone's help regarding the wingtip attach kit and the blind rivet questions yesterday. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:16 PM PST US From: Gert Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Well, that settles it then, like primer, everybody has their own favorite solvent ;-) do not archive Gert Greg Young wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > > Whoa Hal, MEK is nasty stuff. Much worse than acetone. I've been using > denatured alcohol for almost everything. It's pretty benign unless you drink > it. I tend to use the most solvent when scotchbrighting prior to priming. > The alcohol is perfect for this. Safe, no residue. I wonder why I spend so > many years with hands soaked in MEK and acetone before I wised up. Give it a > try. > > Regards, > Greg Young - Houston (DWH) > RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix > Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes >> >>Good words, David. >> >>Am I right in my understanding that MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) is even >>better than acetone? >> >>Water is a superb solvent. Use the clean stuff of course. >>Hot is better >>than cold - probably true of most solvents. I figure on >>removing oil and >>grease with stoddard solvent which I buy as cheapo mineral >>spirits paint >>thinner. I believe it is pretty safe if not inhaled for days on >>end. Check it out at www.atsdr.cdc.gov along with >>acetone,xylene and many >>others but not MEK. >> >>The next step is to wash with detergent & water and then rinse >>thoroughly. Zero residue. >> >>Hal Kempthorne >> >>At 09:36 AM 8/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" >>> >>>Coleman fuel is Naphtha and its ingredients are not >>> >>regulated. It can >> >>>have any kind of crap in it. Naphtha often contains Benzene >>> >>which is a >> >>>carcinogen. It also contains rust inhibitors and >>> >>stabilizers which may >> >>>not be compatible with paint and are actually intended to LEAVE a >>>residue, to keep the inside of your stove or lantern from >>> >>rusting.... >> >>>Many other thinners such as lacquer thinner are carcinogenic >>> >>or harmful >> >>>to your health. Consider using Acetone which has low health >>> >>hazard, is >> >>>cheap and works as well as most cleaners to remove oily >>> >>residue, paint >> >>>and other contamination. If you feel that you must use one >>> >>of the more >> >>>dangerous chemicals to get the surface super clean, use it >>> >>as a final >> >>>cleaner after using acetone. >>> >>>It's not an accident that your wife's finger nail polish remover is >>>nothing but acetone. It is a relatively safe solvent. Many >>> >>others are >> >>>very dangerous and there is little reason to use them. What >>> >>we don't >> >>>know can hurt us... >>> >>>Any question about any product like this- Check the MSDS for >>> >>it on the >> >>>internet. The answer is a click away. >>> >>>David Burton >>>University Medical Center >>>Seattle >>>RV6-wings >>> >>> > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:59 PM PST US From: "Dave Ford" Subject: RV-List: pitot tube routing --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" I haven't had the wings on my 6 yet but am routing the pitot from the instruments to get to the wing root. Question is where to pop it through, forward or aft of F602, if forward then forward or aft of fuel tank/fuselage bracket? I realize you can actually put it through anywhere aft of F602 but want it out of the way as much as possible. Dave Ford RV6 finishing ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:43 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: RV-List: MK-319-BS Shank Size? --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley William and Karie, The drill for the MK-319-BS blind rivet is 7/64" (.109"). #33 (.113") is just .0036" larger while 7/32" is .219". Regards, Richard Dudley -6A late details William Davis wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "William Davis" > > Karie, > > 7/32 is correct. Drill #33 > > Bill RV-8 Tiger-Kat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karie Daniel" > To: > Subject: RV-List: MK-319-BS Shank Size? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > Anyone know what the shank size of the MK-319-BS rivet is? I'm a little > perplexed, seems like every bit I've tried is either slightly larger or > slightly smaller for this rivet. I don't want a dimple that's too deep and > hole that's too large. I called Vans and they said it was a 7/32. So either > I'm looking at an entirely wrong blind rivet or Vans misunderstood my > question. A 7/32 is gigantic compared to what I'm looking at as a MK-319-BS > rivet. > > > > These are the four blind rivets you use on the trailing edge of the > elevator near the trim tab, you can't get to this using a normal rivet. > > > > Karie Daniel > > Sammamish, WA > > RV-7A QB > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:32 PM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Thinner vs. Lacquer Thinner? Coleman fuel. --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > Whoa Hal, MEK is nasty stuff. Much worse than acetone. I've been using > denatured alcohol for almost everything. It's pretty benign unless you drink > it. I tend to use the most solvent when scotchbrighting prior to priming. > The alcohol is perfect for this. Safe, no residue. I wonder why I spend so > many years with hands soaked in MEK and acetone before I wised up. Give it a > try. Good advice! Alcohol is the cleaner I use if I can. For some applications in my work (not painting) I have to use acetone. MEK is not horrible, but worse then acetone. It causes liver and kidney damage and unfortunately acts to accelerate damage to the liver and kidneys from other chemicals. It makes a bad chemicals effects worse... We glue acrylic with it, but limit our use of it to that purpose and we try and do it under the hood. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:57 PM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Cleaveland RV Wing Tip Attach Hardware --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee We have a local RV-9A (not flown yet) that is set up for the tip tanks and they went to #8 screws in order to carry the load. They didn't do any engineering just eye-balled it up from the standard #6. Speaking as an engineer, I wouldn't use #4 screws in fiberglass to hold on to 54 pounds of fuel unless they were about 1/2" apart. Just my opinion. Mike Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode At 13:57 2003-08-10 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: > ># 4 Screws with Tip-Tanks ?? > >How would the # 4 screws hold up if used with the optional Vans Tip Tanks >(that I have sitting- & collecting dust in my garage). >Would the ~9 gallons of fuel per side be to much weight to be handled by >the #4's? > >Is there anyone out there who has the Vans Tip Tanks installed, who would >like to give us their mounting solution & reasons? > >Thank you, >Konrad >************* ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:57 PM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: RV-List: Prop weight was Re: Tire Wear --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee At 16:55 2003-08-10 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 > >Cy Galley wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > >Why not turn down the idle? It will help you landings as well. > > > >Cy Galley > > > >Turn the idle down to what? > >Have you ever flown an 0-320 with wooden prop? >Not enough flywheel mass to get much below 900 RPM >without vibrating the sliding canopy off, if it's not closed >and locked due to all the shake, rattle and roll. > >It's all academic now that I've recently swapped the >10 pound wood prop for a 26 pound metal Sensenich. > >YMMV. 26 pound metal Sensenich? I went from an 18 pound Warnke toothpick to a 41 pound Sensenich 70CM on my O-320. Have you checked your scales for accuracy? Of course a 10 pound prop WOULD need 900 rpm to idle! P-) Mike Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:05 PM PST US From: Geoff Evans Subject: RV-List: Control stick bushings --> RV-List message posted by: Geoff Evans While rigging my elevator control system for the first time, I noticed the following problem with the bolts that attach the control sticks to the control column that runs longitudinally in the center of the fuselage... The sticks are mounted to the column with AN4 bolts that pass through the center of a brass bushing. If I torque the nuts to the required 50-70 inch-pounds, the sticks bind and are very difficult to move. I have about 1/32" of bushing protruding out either side of the sticks, so it's not a case of clamping the edges of the column to the sticks -- the sticks do not touch the column at all. Best I can figure, the 50-70 inch-pounds is causing the bushing to bow slightly and preventing the stick from moving. If I back the nut off slightly, the stick moves so nicely that it feels frictionless. Anyone else had this problem? Should I just leave the nut backed off a little and call it good enough (it's a castle nut and not a lock nut, so it won't be going anywhere with the cotter pin installed)? By the way, I called Van's about this, but they didn't really have any advice for me. Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 QB fuselage __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:23 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Used Navaid Test? From: "" --> RV-List message posted by: "" All, I just got a used Navaid, and I wanted to do some sort of bench testing to verify that it works. The seller guarantees it to work, and he will return it within a specified time period if not. Anyone have any idea on a way to possibly bench test it? I just got wings a couple of weeks ago, so airplane testing is out of the question. I know I can give it power to hear the gyros spin and make sure all the lights light up, but I was hoping to do a little more than that. Also, it did not come with any documentation...anyone have a scanned copy of the pin-out diagram and/or any relevant manual info? Thanks, Scott 7A Emp/Wings ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:47 PM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: pitot tube routing --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke I ran my pitot line just aft of the F-602 so that it would fit under the aft facing flange and be out of the way and protected from feet climbing in and out, etc. (I think I put my F-602s in backwards so the open flange points aft not forward as the plans show - but I'm flying now so what the heck.) I used 1/4" poly tubing in this area and wondered about needing a 90 deg fitting to turn the corner from penetrating the fuse side to going straight up. In the end, I didn't bother and just have a snap bushing and a bend in the tube. No sign of kinking or any other problem. The tube goes up and then inboard to connect to the ASI. The F-602 area gets a bit tight with fuel lines, vent lines, probably some wiring, and inside finish upholstery all needing space so try and plan far enough ahead to fit it all in including your pitot line. Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB RV-6A C-GKGZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ford" Subject: RV-List: pitot tube routing > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" > > I haven't had the wings on my 6 yet but am routing the pitot from the instruments to get to the wing root. Question is where to pop it through, forward or aft of F602, if forward then forward or aft of fuel tank/fuselage bracket? I realize you can actually put it through anywhere aft of F602 but want it out of the way as much as possible. > > Dave Ford > RV6 finishing > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:37 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: grommet question --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Dan, Though it might represent a bit of extra work, some number of layers of heat shrink in that area might do the job. The kind with the glue inside has done the job for me in similar situations and it most often has a three to four to one shrink rate. This will allow getting it over various fittings to get it positioned as needed. Another choice: The self vulcanizing or bonding silicone tape that Bob Nuckolls or B&C sells works nicer than smooshing the Hi-Temp stuff in there. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: RV-List: grommet question > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > On my IO-360, I had to replace the hose that runs up from the fuel injection > controller to the spider. The new hose is thinner than the old hose, so the > grommet I was using in the lower baffling (AN931-12-17 or MS35489-20) is too > big (ID is too big, that is). The old hose was 3/4" (thus -12), but the new > hose is 9/16". They don't make an AN931-9-17 that I can find. > > I'm just curious if there's a simple solution for this, like wrapping > something around the hose where it passes through the grommet in order to > build the OD up to 3/4", or whether it's just a matter of getting out the > high-temp silicone and filling the gap with it (seems really cheesy to do > that). > > Does anybody know of a rubber grommet with: > > - ID = 9/16" or 5/8" > - hole size = 1" or 1 1/16" > > I guess I could replace that lower baffling (and drill a smaller grommet > hole in the new one) as a last resort, but I'd like to avoid that if > possible. > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:37 PM PST US From: RV3 Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop weight was Re: Tire Wear --> RV-List message posted by: RV3 >>> >>> >>Turn the idle down to what? >> >>Have you ever flown an 0-320 with wooden prop? >>Not enough flywheel mass to get much below 900 RPM >>without vibrating the sliding canopy off, if it's not closed >>and locked due to all the shake, rattle and roll. >> >>It's all academic now that I've recently swapped the >>10 pound wood prop for a 26 pound metal Sensenich. >> >>YMMV. >> >> > >26 pound metal Sensenich? I went from an 18 pound Warnke toothpick to a 41 >pound Sensenich 70CM on my O-320. Have you checked your scales for >accuracy? Of course a 10 pound prop WOULD need 900 rpm to idle! P-) >Mike > >Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR > My Pacesetter wood prop is actually 11.4 pounds without 4 inch extention or bolts. I don't recall what my 70CM weighs WITHOUT prop extention and bolts, but I don't remember it being remotely close to 41 pounds. However, the Sensenich web site uses 40.75 pounds for a TOTAL PACKAGE weight that may well include the UPS shipping carton. In any case, the mass of the metal prop, whether 26 or 41 pounds, still far exceeds that of my wooden one.... making a lower idle a piece of cake. :-) Do not archive