Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Dynon survey (Jeff Point)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: Dynon survey (RV3)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Doug Rozendaal)
4. 04:56 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Dana Overall)
5. 05:36 AM - Re: Dynon survey (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
6. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich (doug)
7. 06:01 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Pat Hatch)
8. 06:14 AM - Re: Dynon survey (RV3)
9. 06:31 AM - Off list - Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensinech (doug)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: wheel bearings heads up (Bob Japundza)
11. 07:31 AM - Re: RV vs Lancair (Scott Bilinski)
12. 07:32 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Ken Harrill)
13. 07:46 AM - Re: RV-4 footwells (Tracy Crook)
14. 08:02 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Dana Overall)
15. 09:11 AM - lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
16. 09:28 AM - Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor (Brian Denk)
17. 09:31 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Terry Watson)
18. 09:37 AM - Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
19. 09:38 AM - Re: Dynon survey (Dan Checkoway)
20. 09:50 AM - Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor (Dan Checkoway)
21. 09:56 AM - Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor (Scott Bilinski)
22. 10:02 AM - Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor (Terry Watson)
23. 11:15 AM - Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang (Dana Overall)
24. 11:39 AM - Cylindrical Facet fuel pump (Mitch Faatz)
25. 12:09 PM - Re: Dynon survey (RV3)
26. 12:22 PM - Fw: Remote compass...ferrous connector? (Dan Checkoway)
27. 12:37 PM - Re: Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang (Dan Checkoway)
28. 01:40 PM - Re: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions (JDaniel343@aol.com)
29. 01:53 PM - Re: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions (Trampas)
30. 02:24 PM - Re: Dynon survey (N223RV@aol.com)
31. 02:46 PM - Re: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump (Jim Sears)
32. 02:55 PM - Re: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump (Mitch Faatz)
33. 03:06 PM - Re: Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang (Dana Overall)
34. 03:33 PM - Dynon Discussion (Wheeler North)
35. 03:42 PM - New Online Store (Stein Bruch)
36. 04:07 PM - EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum NY Sept. 12-13-14 (RV6160hp@aol.com)
37. 04:19 PM - VULTURES formation group, Mid Atlantic VAF wing attending Fulton NY 9th RV forum (RV6160hp@aol.com)
38. 04:42 PM - Re: Fw: Remote compass...ferrous connector? (Bill Dube)
39. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich (Eustace Bowhay)
40. 05:00 PM - Wing to fuse fairings (Tim Bryan)
41. 05:19 PM - EAA B17 At DXR (Tony Castellano)
42. 05:20 PM - Re: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum NY Sept. 12-13-14 (Cy Galley)
43. 05:25 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Ken Simmons)
44. 05:47 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Bob Hassel)
45. 06:09 PM - Re: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot (Thomas Velvick)
46. 06:10 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Ken Simmons)
47. 06:18 PM - Fw: rv-6 forced landing (Dan Checkoway)
48. 07:01 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Kevin Horton)
49. 07:29 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Terry Watson)
50. 07:43 PM - efis efis, bla bla bla (Amit Dagan)
51. 08:27 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (DEREK REED)
52. 09:07 PM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Ken Simmons)
53. 09:22 PM - Re: Dynon Survey (Robin Wessel)
54. 09:28 PM - Re: efis efis, bla bla bla (James E. Clark)
55. 11:27 PM - Wind shear (Wheeler North)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
-uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
-functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
-inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
-marker beacon lights would be neat
-GPS annunciator would be realy neat
-no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
-priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
Jeff Point
RV-6 Panel, wiring
Milwaukee WI
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
>With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
>have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
>regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
>hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
>offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
>
>-uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
>-functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
>-inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
>-marker beacon lights would be neat
>-GPS annunciator would be realy neat
>-no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
>-priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
>
>I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
>
Not I.
Bob - A fool and his money are soon parted.
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Count me in! I would send a check today!
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon survey
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
> have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
> regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
> hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
> offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
>
> -uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
> -functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
> -inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
> -marker beacon lights would be neat
> -GPS annunciator would be realy neat
> -no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
> -priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
>
> I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 Panel, wiring
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
>
>Bob - A fool and his money are soon parted.
To each his own, but I certainly feel this is a great time to be buying
instruments. Why in the world do I want to waste time and foolish money by
installing heavy, outdated, clangy ol instruments. One can say, "because
they are proven". In the last 4 years I've had the airspeed indicator,
alitimeter, one old radio, both mags and one vac pump worked on from my
Bonanza. Not a great track record in my book. Same deal with my previous
172.
Yes, I am willing to make a little financial gamble to do away with
spinners, suckers and mechanical spark makers for the electronic stuff. If
it were up to me, I'd throw all this round sh$t out but it wouldn't be
prudent..........yeah, right. This stuff will be nothing but backup, let's
just hope it doesn't quit working before the electronic stuff.
Dynon, Grand Rapids, Garmin 430 coupled to TruTracks new Digitrack 2 mounted
on my recently completed carbon fiber panel in my black RV-7 with the tinted
canopy. Can't wait to fly it!!
Like I said, to each his own.
BTW, Dynon moniters this site so they know about this thread.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 5
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tests=AWL,BAYES_01,NO_REAL_NAME,USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.53
--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
Sent my e-mail saying the same yesterday.
And lets put the do not archive in there . Especially on the questions. Let
the author of a good response remove it. I watched a dozen ?'s go out
yesterday without it.
Mike Stewart
Its up there
<snip>
With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
offering from them?
Jeff Point
RV-6 Panel, wiring
Milwaukee WI
<snip>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich |
--> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Rick,
I understand your concern and can confirm that I have re-read SI 1435
after Eustace's post. True, this SI says absolutely nothing about the
option to retain the line and not pierce the rear plug. Also, I do not
recall any mention of this option in the AD adressing the interior
corrosion on hollow cranks fitted with constant speed props.
That said, I believe Eustace's comments to be 100% correct. It makes
perfect sense to drain the oil from the crank through the govenor line
back to the sump. I'm sure this was Lycoming's intent.
What I don't understand is why SI 1435 does not entertain this option at
all. Is Lycoming being ultra conservative? I suspect they are but on
the other hand perhaps there is a legitimate engineering requirement to
remove the line and puncture the rear plug beyond simply draining the
oil pressure.
It would be best if Lycoming did confirm this as an option or explain
why it is not.
Doug Gray
Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
>
> Hi Rick:
>
> Maybe my post on this subject needs further clarification.
>
> As I posted, if the engine has the governor line installed, that is the line
> from the governor adapter to the front gallery and has the correct cover on
> the adapter (has a slot in it to allow the oil to return to the crankcase
> and prevent any build-up of pressure between the two front plugs the rear
> plug does not need to be pierced.
>
> If the engine does not have a governor line installed and the rear plug is
> installed then it would have to be pierced. An easy way to tell is to remove
> the fitting from the front gallery (the one that the governor line goes to
> and blow in it. If pressure builds it would mean that the rear plug is
> installed and not pierced. This would require removal of the front plug and
> piercing of the rear plug and a new front plug installed. This piercing
> should be done with a sharp punch and not drilled to prevent and metal going
> into the engine.
>
> Bottom line is we don't want any pressure build-up between the two plugs to
> prevent blowing the front one.
>
> This says it is possible to have several different combinations depending on
> the engine source.
>
> Check list would be, if installing a fixed pitch on an engine with a
> governor adapter and line installed to the front gallery disconnect the line
> at the front and blow into the line,this will establish if the governor
> adapter has the correct cover on it no pressure should build. Then blow into
> the front gallery, if the pressure builds this means that the rear plug is
> in place and a constant speed could be installed by only removing the front
> plug. If pressure does not build the rear plug would have to be replaced to
> run a constant speed.
>
> I will be at Van's Homecoming and will check the new engines from Lycoming
> and determine how they are shipped.
>
> Eustace
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>Subject:
>>
>>
>>Option for CS after fitting FP Sensinech
>>
>>From:
>>
>>
>>doug (dgra1233@bigpond.net.au)
>>
>>Date:
>>
>>
>>Mon Aug 11 - 3:13 AM
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
>>
>>
>>Eustace Bowhay wrote:
>>
>>To run the fixed pitch on a factory new just bolt the prop
>>
>>on,
>>
>>
>>If I install a Sensenich 70CM with the 2.25" spacer on a Factory new O-320
>
> D1A I understand from Eustace's post that I do nothing but bolt it to the
> engine. This is good newssnip
>
>>
>>Doug Gray
>>
>>
>>Doug,
>>
>>
>>I would look into that assumption a little closer. After several phone
>
> calls by me and others to Lycoming with confusing advice, here's what Tom
> Green of Van's had to say.
>
>>
>>Tom Green <tomg@vansaircraft.com> wrote:
>>Thanks Rick, we certainly recommend the piercing... as a matter of
>>fact, we are the folks who demanded that each new engine
>>delivered by Van's have SI 1435 in the box. Prior to that there was
>>only our word on it... Lycoming is pretty clear on it and we ahve
>>published it in our RVator within the last couple of years as well... I
>>am curious what information or where you got conflicting info on the
>>topic, Tom
>>
>>
>>Rick, for use with a FIXED PITCH propeller, the front plug must FIRST be
>
> removed, the INTERIOR plug pierced, and then a NEW front plug inserted.Tom
>
>>
>>Rick Galati FWF RV-6A 0320-D1A
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Dynon D-11 HSI--I'm a buyer.
do not archive
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon survey
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
> have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
> regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
> hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
> offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
>
> -uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
> -functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
> -inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
> -marker beacon lights would be neat
> -GPS annunciator would be realy neat
> -no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
> -priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
>
> I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 Panel, wiring
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
>Like I said, to each his own.
>
>BTW, Dynon moniters this site so they know about this thread.
>
>
>Dana Overall
>
Oooooooo....
So, Dynon monitors this thread.
Good idea for them.
In the first place, I'm not bad mouthing Dynon.
I'm just not leaping to spend thousands of hard earned dollars
on any product that is less than somewhat proven or still vaporware.
Like you say, to each his own. I'm just stating an
opinion that has evolved from flying for 50 years and
65 years of being subjected to most every heartbreak
know to man and woman.
Nothing quite like 'having been there'.
If you haven't.... YMMV.
Best of luck to all who insist on following blindly,
especially in VFR conditions. :-P
Bob -
No fool like an old fool.
Act in haste, repent in leisure.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Off list - Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensinech |
--> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Thanks Eustace, So if the spinner rear bulkhead has a flange 11/16
inches wide then it should fit just fine.
Doug
Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
>
> Hi Doug:
>
> On my 0360 Hartzell combination the distance from the rear edge of the
> spinner to the face of the ring gear is 1 and 9/16 inches give or take a 32
> second.
>
> Eustace
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "doug" <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com.Netscape/7.02>
> Subject: RV-List: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensinech
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
>>
>>Eustace Bowhay wrote:
>>
>>>To run the fixed pitch on a factory new just bolt the prop
>>>on,
>>
>>
>>If I install a Sensenich 70CM with the 2.25" spacer on a Factory new
>>O-320 D1A I understand from Eustace's post that I do nothing but bolt it
>>to the engine. This is good news.
>>
>>Now if I install the Sensenich and cut the Standard (used to be called a
>>Constant Speed cowl) polyester cowl to fit, and later I choose to
>>upgrade to a Constant Speed Prop, can someone tell me if the cowling
>>will then fit the CS prop?
>>
>>I'm thinking a Hartzell or MT one day...
>>
>>If it does I will be very happy...
>>Doug Gray
>>
>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: wheel bearings heads up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
I've bought bearings a few times from Applied (used to be Bearings Inc.) and their
prices on the Timken 08125 (cone) and 08231 (races) are fairly close to typical
aircraft supplier prices (about $60/wheel), so no big savings there. If
I understood Robby correctly (I may be wrong) he was saying that it was $40 for
bearings for both wheels (four bearings, four races), because I told him I
gave $120 for bearings/races for both wheels. I think you'd have to cross-reference
by dimensions, not the part number, for cheaper bearings. I believe the
08125-08231 #'s are for the faa-cert versions of the bearings.
Regards, Bob
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV vs Lancair |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I talked with Van's and read some posts here. The way I understand it is
the RV was half off the runway (at taxi speed) when it was hit. I was told
that the Lancair already had at lest one wheel in the grass and after
impact ended up 1000 feet down the runway. So that guy was really moving!!!
Not sure if the RV will be fixed and the Lancair may be totalled. That what
I have gathered.
At 10:25 AM 8/11/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
>Anybody know how the Lancair/RV incident went down. (this may have already
>scrolled by on the list, but I just got back from OSH myself.)
>
>rumor I heard was RV turned into Lancair after both touched down, but I
>didn't actually see it happen. I was looking the other way trying to direct
>a C-195 into a parking spot. I didn't know it was the factory's Little Red.
>I would now be suprised to hear this rumor is accurate as the Vans guys all
>seem to fly very conservatively these days.
>
>
>W
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Harrill <KHarrill@osa.state.sc.us>
I would definitely buy a Dynon HSI. I have been thinking along these lines
recently and actually emailed Dynon suggesting such a unit before this
thread started.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 220 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Point [mailto:jpoint@mindspring.com]
Subject: RV-List: Dynon survey
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
-uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
-functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
-inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
-marker beacon lights would be neat
-GPS annunciator would be realy neat
-no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
-priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
Jeff Point
RV-6 Panel, wiring
Milwaukee WI
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV-4 footwells |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
>
> I have the 18 years of RVator, and the plans are in there. Like another
> lister said, mine too interfered with the aileron pushrods. I had to move
the
> front walls of the footwells back about 3/4" from the dimensions on those
plans
> and they cleared. Just a heads up, may save you some re-work.....
> -Mike Kraus
> RV-4 N223RV 75 hours
I built the "interfearing" footwells too. Instead of starting over, I cut
away the semi circular area that interfears with the aileron tube and built
a sheetmetal hump in the well. It ends up being perfectly positioned for an
"arch support". Very comfy for barefoot passengers.
Tracy Crook
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
>
> >Like I said, to each his own.
> >
> >BTW, Dynon moniters this site so they know about this thread.
> >
> >
> >Dana Overall
> >
>
>Oooooooo....
>So, Dynon monitors this thread.
>Good idea for them.
>
Sorry Bob, I didn't mean it the way the seem to have taken it. What was
meant by that short sentence was Dynon has seen the interest in the unit
being discussed, not spying for tidbits. Heck, my Dynon is supposed to be
here Thurs like I said, but I am also installing a Grand Rapids. Did you
hear that Dynon;)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Can someone comment on the choice of Lightspeed sensors - in the flywheel vs
the hall effect sensor in the mag.
Seems to me the direct crankshaft sensor has the advantages of being more
accurate and simpler - meaning fewer things to break; but the disadvantage
of being difficult to install.
So my question is how hard is it? Is it just a simple matter of drilling a
hole in the flywheel? Can it be done with the flywheel attached? And then,
how does the magnet fasten into the wheel? Any other comments?
Andy
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>Can someone comment on the choice of Lightspeed sensors - in the flywheel
>vs
>the hall effect sensor in the mag.
>
>Seems to me the direct crankshaft sensor has the advantages of being more
>accurate and simpler - meaning fewer things to break; but the disadvantage
>of being difficult to install.
>
>So my question is how hard is it? Is it just a simple matter of drilling a
>hole in the flywheel? Can it be done with the flywheel attached? And
>then,
>how does the magnet fasten into the wheel? Any other comments?
>
>Andy
I say forget about the flywheel sensor. Just get the mag hole module. It's
ridiculously easy to install and time. Any gear slop is insignificant in
the overall ignition equation.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Lightspeed w/ mag module for two years and love it.
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Oooooooo....
So, Dynon monitors this thread.
Good idea for them.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the VP of Engineering at
Dynon is an RV-6 builder.
Terry
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor |
tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,
USER_IN_WHITELIST
autolearn=ham version=2.53
--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
Add direct crank is cheaper to your list of item to compare.
And ILL add do not archive again today.
Mike Stewart
Dual LSI plasma III's
-----Original Message-----
From: Aircraft Technical Book Company [mailto:winterland@rkymtnhi.com]
Subject: RV-List: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
<winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Can someone comment on the choice of Lightspeed sensors - in the flywheel vs
the hall effect sensor in the mag.
Seems to me the direct crankshaft sensor has the advantages of being more
accurate and simpler - meaning fewer things to break; but the disadvantage
of being difficult to install.
So my question is how hard is it? Is it just a simple matter of drilling a
hole in the flywheel? Can it be done with the flywheel attached? And then,
how does the magnet fasten into the wheel? Any other comments?
Andy
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Count me in (in about a year or two when I have the money to blow). That's
pretty much exactly what that hole is reserved for right beneath my 1st
Dynon... 8-)
http://www.rvproject.com/images/panel/panel-20030709.jpg
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon survey
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days, I
> have decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
> regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
> hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
> offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
>
> -uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
> -functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
> -inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
> -marker beacon lights would be neat
> -GPS annunciator would be realy neat
> -no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
> -priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
>
> I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 Panel, wiring
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Seems to me the direct crankshaft sensor has the advantages of being more
> accurate and simpler - meaning fewer things to break; but the disadvantage
> of being difficult to install.
I agree 100% with this and went with the direct crank sensor instead of the
Hall effect sensor. The only problems I've heard about with the LSE systems
has been with the Hall effect sensor...seems like an easy decision to make
based on that [possibly limited] information.
> So my question is how hard is it? Is it just a simple matter of drilling
a
> hole in the flywheel? Can it be done with the flywheel attached? And
then,
> how does the magnet fasten into the wheel? Any other comments?
http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Products/CrankSensor.htm
"Use a number 32 drill, 1/8" deep so that the magnets can be pressed in
flush with the surface. Use loctite and stake around them."
LSE charges only $50 (which in my opinion is *easily* justifiable) for them
to install the magnets in your flywheel for you. Takes the guesswork out of
it and *still* costs less than the Hall effect sensor, I believe.
"You may wish to send your flywheel to LSE for installation of the magnets
and the timing marks; cost is $50 plus $10 for insured shipping; plan on 1
day plus shipping time."
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I went with the crank fire it was installed when the engine was built. From
what I can see remove flywheel and send to Light speed and let them drill
it. This is something you should not try on a drill press. The magnet is
pressed in place. You will then have to run a cable through the fire wall
to the brain box. From the brain box 2 coax cables to the coils (back
through the fire wall) most likely mounted on top of the engine. Spark plug
adaptors so you can use the provided automotive spark plugs. Your right
about the crank fire and less to go wrong. You will also need the large
flywheel to fit the crank fire pick up. I dont think they have a set up for
the small flywheel but call and verify if thats what you have. From what I
have seen on my engine and installing the brain boxes plan on a long
weekend to install. One more thing when routing the coax to the coils DO
NOT clamp the wires tightly. OR, just use RG-400 and make new cables.
Read everything on their web site also.
At 10:03 AM 8/12/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
><winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
>
>Can someone comment on the choice of Lightspeed sensors - in the flywheel vs
>the hall effect sensor in the mag.
>
>Seems to me the direct crankshaft sensor has the advantages of being more
>accurate and simpler - meaning fewer things to break; but the disadvantage
>of being difficult to install.
>
>So my question is how hard is it? Is it just a simple matter of drilling a
>hole in the flywheel? Can it be done with the flywheel attached? And then,
>how does the magnet fasten into the wheel? Any other comments?
>
>Andy
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 22
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| Subject: | lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Andy,
From the Lightspeed installation instructions: " ... the direct crank sensor
system provides complete redundancy for single or dual Plasma CDI systems.
This crank sensor concept requires removal of the flywheel for installation.
Its reliability and performance is expected to be superior to that of the
accessory case mounted Hall Sensor Module because of its lack of bearings,
seals, and gears. All 6-cylinder versions use direct crank sensors."
The manual seems pretty clear, but I didn't have to do it myself. Aero
Sport Power installed it on the engine I bought from them.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aircraft Technical
Book Company
Subject: RV-List: lightspeed crank sensor vs hall sensor
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
<winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Can someone comment on the choice of Lightspeed sensors - in the flywheel vs
the hall effect sensor in the mag.
Seems to me the direct crankshaft sensor has the advantages of being more
accurate and simpler - meaning fewer things to break; but the disadvantage
of being difficult to install.
So my question is how hard is it? Is it just a simple matter of drilling a
hole in the flywheel? Can it be done with the flywheel attached? And then,
how does the magnet fasten into the wheel? Any other comments?
Andy
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
I could use a little helping hand here. When you slider guys sit on the
pilot side of your 7 or 9, where would say your line of sight intersects the
top of the panel. If you could point out this location in relation to the
7017L where it screws to the panel via the nutplate, it would be helpful. I
want to position my Dynon at this point and also need to position my 430
within the accepted vision parameters to avoid installation of an
annunciater panel. I realize I am going to have to cut and reinforce the
7017, so be it.
I know my layout, I just need a good reference in relation to the attachment
point of the 7017L.
BTW, I just got an order of steam guages delivered by FedEx........yuck.
Sorry, couldn't resist;)
Thanks,
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Cylindrical Facet fuel pump |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchfaatz@hotmail.com>
In the near future, those of us that want to use the "beer can" facet fuel
pump as described in the archives will have a much easier time getting the
pump. Dealing with J&N, etc was ridiculous and was going to be very
expensive. I talked with Aircraft Spruce this morning and apparently I was
the straw that broke the camel's back - they are going to start stocking
that fuel pump as a regular item now. To save a trip to the archives, it's
the Facet 40007E and since it has 1/4" inlets it makes putting the fuel pump
and gascolator in the wing root much easier. It has a good-sized inlet
filter element that is easy to inspect and clean, and is used on thousands
of Piper aircraft. Search for messages from Mark Navratil
(czechsix@juno.com) for more good details about the pump.
Price quoted by Aircraft Spruce was $55. J&N started quoted me at $140 and
I "worked them down" to $79. No thanks.
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV3 <rv3@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>
>>Oooooooo....
>>So, Dynon monitors this thread.
>>Good idea for them.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Sorry Bob, I didn't mean it the way the seem to have taken it. What was
>meant by that short sentence was Dynon has seen the interest in the unit
>being discussed, not spying for tidbits. Heck, my Dynon is supposed to be
>here Thurs like I said, but I am also installing a Grand Rapids. Did you
>hear that Dynon;)
>
>
>Dana Overall
>
No problem, Dana. I'm not at all offended.
In fact, if nobody bought the latest and greatest gizmos
as quick as they came from the oven, where would
conservatives like me be? Still waiting at the station for
the bus, train or plane to be invented? Could be.
Anywhooo, business needs guys like you
and even me.... after you're well satisfied.. :-)
Bob -
Waiting for faster, better and cheaper, but...
make it quick. I'm not getting any younger.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Fw: Remote compass...ferrous connector? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
FYI...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Bogner" <nick@dynondevelopment.com>
Subject: RE: Remote compass...ferrous connector?
> Dan, That is a very good question. We have done testing for that very
> thing and there in no problem using a standard d-sub connector. That is
why
> the connector is at one end of the box and the actual sensors are at the
> other.
>
>
> Nick Bogner - Lead Design Engineer
> Dynon Avionics, Inc. www.dynondevelopment.com
> 19501 144th Ave NE, Ste. C-500, Woodinville, WA 98072
> Ph. (425)402-0834 fax (425) 984-1751
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gillian D'Ancicco [mailto:gillian@dynondevelopment.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 8:21 AM
> To: Nick Bogner
> Subject: FW: Remote compass...ferrous connector?
>
>
> Gillian C. D'Ancicco
>
> Business Manager
> Dynon Avionics Inc.
> 19501 144th Ave NE
> Suite C-500
> Woodinville, WA 98072
> (425)402-4404 Phone (425)984-1751 Fax
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan@rvproject.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:22 AM
> To: Gillian D'Ancicco
> Subject: Remote compass...ferrous connector?
>
>
> Gillian,
>
> I have a question about the remote compass used with the EFIS-D10. I
> installed it the other day in my RV-7 and everything was hunky dory until
I
> realized that the D-9 connector I'm using, including the retaining screws,
> all happily jump right up to a magnet.
>
> Is this significant enough that I should worry about it? I haven't seen
any
> all-plastic or brass D-9 connectors.
>
> Thanks,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/2003
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/2003
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Instead of all that, why not just center it up on the control stick? That's
what I did and it's directly in front of me...tip-up or slider aside.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> I could use a little helping hand here. When you slider guys sit on the
> pilot side of your 7 or 9, where would say your line of sight intersects
the
> top of the panel. If you could point out this location in relation to the
> 7017L where it screws to the panel via the nutplate, it would be helpful.
I
> want to position my Dynon at this point and also need to position my 430
> within the accepted vision parameters to avoid installation of an
> annunciater panel. I realize I am going to have to cut and reinforce the
> 7017, so be it.
>
> I know my layout, I just need a good reference in relation to the
attachment
> point of the 7017L.
>
> BTW, I just got an order of steam guages delivered by FedEx........yuck.
> Sorry, couldn't resist;)
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider/fuselage
> Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: JDaniel343@aol.com
I am on my second sending unit. Still have fluctuating oil pressure reading. This
last weekend I soldered a wire directly to the sending unit and ran it to my
grounding buss. Still have fluctuating oil pressure readings. I know I have
goo oil pressure because a friend and I tee'd off at the oil line and ran a mechanical
gauge and the electrical unit. 80 psi on the mechanical, 40 psi on the
electrical.
Is there a way to check the electrical gauge?
John Danielson
Message 29
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| Subject: | Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Yes, try disconnecting the gauge from sender and then using an ohm meter
arcos the sender. If the ohms fluctuate it is most likely sender. If not
then reconnect the gauge to sender and measure voltage on the wire from
sender to gauge. If the voltage fluctuates then the problem is gauge or
power to gauge. Thus next check power at gauge and see if it fluctuates,
if so then power problem if not it is a bad gauge.
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JDaniel343@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Oil Pressure Guage Questions
--> RV-List message posted by: JDaniel343@aol.com
I am on my second sending unit. Still have fluctuating oil pressure
reading. This last weekend I soldered a wire directly to the sending
unit and ran it to my grounding buss. Still have fluctuating oil
pressure readings. I know I have goo oil pressure because a friend and I
tee'd off at the oil line and ran a mechanical gauge and the electrical
unit. 80 psi on the mechanical, 40 psi on the electrical.
Is there a way to check the electrical gauge?
John Danielson
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
Count me in too! I already have a nice hole under my D-10 that it would fit
nicely in!
Right now I have my Garmin 295 HSI, but would prefer the Dynon!
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 75 hours
Do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
> To save a trip to the archives, it's the Facet 40007E and since it
> has 1/4" inlets it makes putting the fuel pump and gascolator in the > wing root
much easier. It has a good-sized inlet
> filter element that is easy to inspect and clean, and is used on
> thousands of Piper aircraft. Price quoted by Aircraft Spruce was
> $55.
I've been using the Facet #478360 sold by Aircraft Spruce for three years. It
looks just like the one I had in my Cheetah. What's so different about the #40007E?
Is it the filter element, size, or what? The #478360 doesn't have a
filter; but, it does have a screen in the bottom. The bottom comes off easily
for maintenance and costs a about $70. The price is certainly better! Alas,
I don't have a gascolator on my RV. A friend of mine did and is already having
problems with it.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchfaatz@hotmail.com>
>I've been using the Facet #478360 sold by Aircraft Spruce for three years.
>It looks just like the one I had in my Cheetah. What's so different about
>the #40007E? Is it the filter element, size, or what? The #478360
>doesn't have a filter; but, it does have a screen in the bottom. The
>bottom comes off easily for maintenance and costs a about $70. The price
>is certainly better! Alas, I don't have a gascolator on my RV. A friend
>of mine did and is already having problems with it.
I believe the main difference is that the 478360 has smaller 1/8" pipe
threads.
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument location for 7 & 9 gang |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>Instead of all that, why not just center it up on the control stick?
>That's
>what I did and it's directly in front of me...tip-up or slider aside.
Well after that brain f@rt, I guess I am required to leave the dumb@$$ sign
stuck to my forehead, for all to see, for at least a day:-)
Thanks Dan!!
Without a doubt.........DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Ken, and others, I'm not sure why you say this
<<<<<<Their AOA is
not working yet and the way it's implemented will probably be of little
value,
in my opinion.>>>>>>>
First said, I'm NOT trying to bite your head off, and I would like to hear
your reasons for this.
Having several hundred landings on the Dynon AOA I'm the lone nut who can
testify that their AOA does work as does their external compass module which
has flown me cross country twice now. I am a little confused as to why you
feel the AOA would be of little value as implemented.
The darned AOA thing has completely changed the way I finish an approach to
landing, and how I take off. It is my understanding that the Navy has also
found these to be the only way to hit the postage stamp in the correct AOA
condition for stopping 100000 lbs in 100 ft.
I keep the bar at the intersection of the green to yellow, just before touch
down I add a small amount of power and touch down three point, or I pull
back slightly and touch down tail first. In both cases if I time it right
the plane touches down at the same time the bar goes into the red. In all
the stalls I did calibrating and then testing, once calibrated the unit has
never stalled in the yellow or green, whether fast, slow, quick, turning,
flaps up, flaps down etc.
During take off I have now had several high density altitude take offs where
both airspeeds said go, but the AOA was still saying to much AOA for the
current airspeed so I gratefully left it on the runway a little longer.
(This, by the way, is why I rarely do three point takeoffs)
The only difficulty I have had with this unit is training my eye muscles to
use it, to land my focal point on it in the right spot/focal length when I
go from outside view to inside view, then scan the other gauges as needed.
And this problem has faded fairly quickly in spite of the fact that I'm not
very trainable.
If there is an implementation issue with the AOA such as display location
that I'm missing, please let us know as Dynon has been very receptive to
their clientelle's input.
RE IFR, its pure sillyness to put your eggs into one basket, but this unit
makes it very easy to have the standard six flight instruments with the AI
replaced by the Dynon, and the DG/TC replaced by electrics and, viola no
vacume!!! The backup battery/alternator options available today make
redundancy issues possible ad infinitum. (by the way AI is currently the FAA
way to refer to a pitch and roll reference indicator, which leads me to
believe they are accepting the use of non-gyro based indicators)
If Dynon were to make an HSI the question I would think they would have for
the list is which data source would you want them to use, GPS or VOR/ILS.
The reason I ask this is because Dynon has not indicated much interest in
making TSO'd products for Type Certified aircraft. It just doesn't seem to
be their current market. (I may be speaking out of order here so if a Dynon
employee is lurking out there I apologize)
But to make a navigational instrument that is legally allowed to be used in
a precision approach they would then need to seek certification of the
accuracy and reliability of the unit and software as defined in several FAA
Orders. This is because the rules are different for IFR navigational devices
(under Part 91 and FAA Orders) as compared to flight instruments (soley
under part 91). The issue with navigational IFR devices is that Part 91 says
the navigational devices must be "appropriate" to the facilities being used.
They then define "appropriate" in numerous "Technical Standard Orders". This
doesn't really happen for flight instruments. Their only issue is what
acceptable/approved data allows them to be installed in a specific aircraft.
And this data is mostly not required for EXPs unless the device is
externally interactive like a nav/com radio, elt or xponder.
But if Dynon used lower cost GPS input, with their magnetic compass data to
correct for wind they could make a very nice non-precision situational
awareness device (SAD) for moderate costs. You would still need a precision
device (TSO'd to the above mentioned "appropriateness") like the VAL INS422
or the Narco 122D+ to fly a legal precision approach.
On the down side the (SAD) market is fairly saturated, so that may be why
they are looking to other high accuracy precision indicator (HAPI) market
devices first.
thx
W
ps, I wasn't sure I could do that last sentence with a straight face... ;{)
do not archive
Message 35
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|
"Rv8-List" <rv8-list@matronics.com>, "Rv9-List" <rv9-list@matronics.com>,
"Rv-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | New Online Store |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi All,
Sorry for the plug here, but I just finished the first part of my new online
store. Items for sale include ATO blade fuses, fuse blocks, terminals,
wire, and more to come. Same brand and quality of products, but %25-50
cheaper than most other places on the web (Van's, etc..).
Wes able to negotiate some great deals with suppliers so we all can save
money.
The store is on my website at: http://www.steinair.com and click on "store".
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Do Not Archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum NY |
Sept. 12-13-14
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
Mark your calendars and plan to attend.
September 12, 2003 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA 486 General
meeting night too.
September 13, 2003 Saturday technical seminars all day, meals provided to paid
attendee's. Then a nice dinner banquet with a presentation. This year Mr. Kirk
House, ex-Director Curator of the Glenn Cirtiss Museum will talk about the
books on Glenn he wrote, and how Glenn was the ultimate Experimenter!
September 14, 2003 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a coordinated
fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
see us at www.eaachapter486.com
We will be updating (correcting-there are ome errors now) our site soon with the
2003 plans. Last year over 56+ RV's and 25 SPAM's flew in with over 150 attendee's.
This year we have (thank the man upstairs and VAN for the support) Mike Seager
and the Factory RV9, yes RV9 doing transitional RV flight instruction (which is
filling up fast again this year so you builders who are close to flight email
Craig Warner at cwarner@twcny.rr.com )
I could go on...but you've been here before and get the picture...just ask some
one who has been there the $40 (pre registered) is easily worth it. Hope to See
you all there.
OH and Al and I plan to give rides this year Dammmmmit! You know my RV? ARE
YOU GAME...you need to initiate requests to Piots on your own...don't be shy,
many pilots waiting for the kind gesture-request!!!!
Respectfully,
David McManmon
President EAA 486
RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
Message 37
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| Subject: | VULTURES formation group, Mid Atlantic VAF wing attending Fulton |
NY 9th RV forum
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
The Mid Atlantic RV Wing will again attend the EAA 486's, 9th annual RV Forum in
Fulton NY, KFZY Oswego Co Airport Saturday Sept 13, 2003 (RV9 and Mike Seager
there too).
The "Vultures" will plan on flying some Formation passes as they did last year
see website. We look forward to having them at our event again this year and
hope to see you all there too!
I believe, out of the 24+, spam's and 56+ RV's, Vultures-Mid Atlantic group was
12+ of the RV's....go to:
www.eaachapter486.com
Find the link for:
RV Forum Pictures! bottom RH side-corner, by Joe Czachorowski, "Vulture Lead" with
the Mid Atlantic RV Wing
See what I mean!!!!
Respectfully,
David McManmon
President EAA 486
RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Remote compass...ferrous connector? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
about magnetic fields (like near a compass or magnetic sensor) is cartridge
brass. This is the material that they use to make the brass tubing and
brass plates that you buy at the hobby store. Of course, they also make
ammunition cartridges from it as well.
The specific alloy that they use for cartridge brass just so happens to
have magnetic properties that mimics a vacuum. It has a relative
permeability of 1.0000 (susceptibility of zero.) Basically, to a DC
magnetic field, cartridge brass is transparent. Cartridge brass is better
than paper, wood, graphite, aluminum, nylon, or any other solid material.
So, if you are mounting a compass, use cartridge brass.
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
The reason that some engines are set up with both front and rear plugs
intact and equipped with the governor adapter and governor line is to give a
choice off running either fixed or constant speed with the least amount of
hassle. In this configuration to run a constant speed all that is required
is to install the governor and remove the front plug. To run the fixed pitch
as I have said before just bolt it on.
Replacing the rear plug can be a bit of a bummer for those that don't have
the experience or proper tools.
Just make sure that the oil can get back through the line to the adapter.
the adapter must have the slot in the cover, has the shape of a small paper
clip and is around 3/32 deep. The shape of the cover prevents it from being
installed incorrectly, make sure it has the proper gasket for this type of
cover.
I ran this info by Bart Lalonde at Aero Sport to be sure that it is all
correct and he confirmed that it was.
Eustace Bowhay
----- Original Message -----
From: "doug" <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich
> --> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
>
> Rick,
> I understand your concern and can confirm that I have re-read SI 1435
> after Eustace's post. True, this SI says absolutely nothing about the
> option to retain the line and not pierce the rear plug. Also, I do not
> recall any mention of this option in the AD adressing the interior
> corrosion on hollow cranks fitted with constant speed props.
>
> That said, I believe Eustace's comments to be 100% correct. It makes
> perfect sense to drain the oil from the crank through the govenor line
> back to the sump. I'm sure this was Lycoming's intent.
>
> What I don't understand is why SI 1435 does not entertain this option at
> all. Is Lycoming being ultra conservative? I suspect they are but on
> the other hand perhaps there is a legitimate engineering requirement to
> remove the line and puncture the rear plug beyond simply draining the
> oil pressure.
>
> It would be best if Lycoming did confirm this as an option or explain
> why it is not.
>
> Doug Gray
>
> Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
> >
> > Hi Rick:
> >
> > Maybe my post on this subject needs further clarification.
> >
> > As I posted, if the engine has the governor line installed, that is the
line
> > from the governor adapter to the front gallery and has the correct cover
on
> > the adapter (has a slot in it to allow the oil to return to the
crankcase
> > and prevent any build-up of pressure between the two front plugs the
rear
> > plug does not need to be pierced.
> >
> > If the engine does not have a governor line installed and the rear plug
is
> > installed then it would have to be pierced. An easy way to tell is to
remove
> > the fitting from the front gallery (the one that the governor line goes
to
> > and blow in it. If pressure builds it would mean that the rear plug is
> > installed and not pierced. This would require removal of the front plug
and
> > piercing of the rear plug and a new front plug installed. This piercing
> > should be done with a sharp punch and not drilled to prevent and metal
going
> > into the engine.
> >
> > Bottom line is we don't want any pressure build-up between the two plugs
to
> > prevent blowing the front one.
> >
> > This says it is possible to have several different combinations
depending on
> > the engine source.
> >
> > Check list would be, if installing a fixed pitch on an engine with a
> > governor adapter and line installed to the front gallery disconnect the
line
> > at the front and blow into the line,this will establish if the governor
> > adapter has the correct cover on it no pressure should build. Then blow
into
> > the front gallery, if the pressure builds this means that the rear plug
is
> > in place and a constant speed could be installed by only removing the
front
> > plug. If pressure does not build the rear plug would have to be replaced
to
> > run a constant speed.
> >
> > I will be at Van's Homecoming and will check the new engines from
Lycoming
> > and determine how they are shipped.
> >
> > Eustace
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@yahoo.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: Option for CS after fitting FP Sensenich
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>Subject:
> >>
> >>
> >>Option for CS after fitting FP Sensinech
> >>
> >>From:
> >>
> >>
> >>doug (dgra1233@bigpond.net.au)
> >>
> >>Date:
> >>
> >>
> >>Mon Aug 11 - 3:13 AM
> >>
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
> >>
> >>
> >>Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> >>
> >>To run the fixed pitch on a factory new just bolt the prop
> >>
> >>on,
> >>
> >>
> >>If I install a Sensenich 70CM with the 2.25" spacer on a Factory new
O-320
> >
> > D1A I understand from Eustace's post that I do nothing but bolt it to
the
> > engine. This is good newssnip
> >
> >>
> >>Doug Gray
> >>
> >>
> >>Doug,
> >>
> >>
> >>I would look into that assumption a little closer. After several phone
> >
> > calls by me and others to Lycoming with confusing advice, here's what
Tom
> > Green of Van's had to say.
> >
> >>
> >>Tom Green <tomg@vansaircraft.com> wrote:
> >>Thanks Rick, we certainly recommend the piercing... as a matter of
> >>fact, we are the folks who demanded that each new engine
> >>delivered by Van's have SI 1435 in the box. Prior to that there was
> >>only our word on it... Lycoming is pretty clear on it and we ahve
> >>published it in our RVator within the last couple of years as well... I
> >>am curious what information or where you got conflicting info on the
> >>topic, Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>Rick, for use with a FIXED PITCH propeller, the front plug must FIRST be
> >
> > removed, the INTERIOR plug pierced, and then a NEW front plug
inserted.Tom
> >
> >>
> >>Rick Galati FWF RV-6A 0320-D1A
> >>
> >>---------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Wing to fuse fairings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <tim@bryantechnology.com>
Hello Listers,
I am fitting and cutting my wing to fuse fairings. I have scribed and trim
the first one to fit against the fuse just fine but still have lots hanging
out over the wing root rib. How much should I trim it back for overhang
over the root rib of the wing? Also there is a difference between the main
portion of the wing root rib and the tank root rib.
I also wonder about moving the platenuts out between the root rib and the
second rib from the root in order to at least line up with the tank rib.
All suggestions appreciated.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
Message 41
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Castellano" <tcastell@bestweb.net>
EAA chapter 130, Danbury, CT, is hosting the EAA B17 Aluminum Overcast at Danbury
airport (DXR) from
Aug 19 to Aug 22.
Rides and ground tours are available on Aug 19, 20, and 21
Ground tours are free to World War 2 veterans.
For further information please contact me off list.
Tony Castellano
tcastell@bestweb.net
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6
N401TC
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum |
NY Sept. 12-13-14
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Sounds like a nice event BUT WHERE? I read thru your message but the
location wasn't to be found.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV6160hp@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum
NY Sept. 12-13-14
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
>
> Mark your calendars and plan to attend.
> September 12, 2003 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA
486 General meeting night too.
> September 13, 2003 Saturday technical seminars all day, meals provided to
paid attendee's. Then a nice dinner banquet with a presentation. This
year Mr. Kirk House, ex-Director Curator of the Glenn Cirtiss Museum will
talk about the books on Glenn he wrote, and how Glenn was the ultimate
Experimenter!
> September 14, 2003 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a
coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
>
> see us at www.eaachapter486.com
>
> We will be updating (correcting-there are ome errors now) our site soon
with the 2003 plans. Last year over 56+ RV's and 25 SPAM's flew in with
over 150 attendee's.
>
> This year we have (thank the man upstairs and VAN for the support) Mike
Seager and the Factory RV9, yes RV9 doing transitional RV flight instruction
(which is filling up fast again this year so you builders who are close to
flight email Craig Warner at cwarner@twcny.rr.com )
>
> I could go on...but you've been here before and get the picture...just ask
some one who has been there the $40 (pre registered) is easily worth it.
Hope to See you all there.
>
> OH and Al and I plan to give rides this year Dammmmmit! You know my RV?
ARE YOU GAME...you need to initiate requests to Piots on your own...don't be
shy, many pilots waiting for the kind gesture-request!!!!
>
> Respectfully,
> David McManmon
> President EAA 486
> RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
>
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I wasnt aware that anyone other than Dynon was testing the probe. I should have
expected that since its release to the public is imminent. Thats why Im still
leaning toward the Dynon even with my criticism of their AOA implementationtheir
thorough testing prior to product release.
Why I say it would be of little value? After some thought, I think that term, of
little value, was a little harsh.
First, Im not sure the Dynon is measuring AOA. It appears to work more like the
LRI. Im not saying either of these instruments is without value. However, they
both rely on an external probe so the placement of the probe would have an impact
on their accuracy, as does pitot placement on airspeed accuracy. The measurements
provided are measurements in relation to the probe not the wing itself.
Yes, they can be calibrated to eliminate error, but is this calibration valid
for all flight configurations? They do provide some type of margin to stall
so they would be of benefit. It seems the Piper blade type pitot/static would
provide a more realistic/conservative airspeed indication giving similar benefits
to the Dynon AOA or LRI.
I can almost overlook this, but I also have a problem with the way the AOA indication
is buried in the instrument along with no audible warning. Yes, a pilot
can train himself to add this to a scan, but why not get it up in the peripheral
vision and/or have an audible warning. I asked Dynon about this and they said
an audible warning is on the future possible features list. I also asked about
reading the data output and building my own audible warning. They said this
was possible, but I was on my own.
To me its just too much of a compromise so Ive decided on the AOA from Proprietary
Software. Yes, its expensive, almost half of the entire Dynon instrument,
but I think it accurately measures AOA and its operation is understandable to
me. I will very likely go with the Dynon and just not use/display the AOA indication.
I dont think there is any argument that some type of stall warning device is beneficial.
I also dont think Ive heard anyone say anything bad about any of these
instruments that theyve flown with.
I hope that answers your question Wheeler.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
>Ken, and others, I'm not sure why you say this
>
><<<<<<Their AOA is
>not working yet and the way it's implemented will probably be of little
>value,
>in my opinion.>>>>>>>
>
>First said, I'm NOT trying to bite your head off, and I would like to hear
>your reasons for this.
>
---snip---
The Internet Truckstop
The first and largest
freight matching
service on the
Intenet
______________ ______________ ______________ ______________
Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Do you have a link on the AOA you're talking about?
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken Simmons
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Discussion
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
I wasnt aware that anyone other than Dynon was testing the probe. I should
have expected that since its release to the public is imminent. Thats why Im
still leaning toward the Dynon even with my criticism of their AOA
implementationtheir thorough testing prior to product release.
Why I say it would be of little value? After some thought, I think that
term, of little value, was a little harsh.
First, Im not sure the Dynon is measuring AOA. It appears to work more like
the LRI. Im not saying either of these instruments is without value.
However, they both rely on an external probe so the placement of the probe
would have an impact on their accuracy, as does pitot placement on airspeed
accuracy. The measurements provided are measurements in relation to the
probe not the wing itself. Yes, they can be calibrated to eliminate error,
but is this calibration valid for all flight configurations? They do provide
some type of margin to stall so they would be of benefit. It seems the Piper
blade type pitot/static would provide a more realistic/conservative airspeed
indication giving similar benefits to the Dynon AOA or LRI.
I can almost overlook this, but I also have a problem with the way the AOA
indication is buried in the instrument along with no audible warning. Yes, a
pilot can train himself to add this to a scan, but why not get it up in the
peripheral vision and/or have an audible warning. I asked Dynon about this
and they said an audible warning is on the future possible features list. I
also asked about reading the data output and building my own audible
warning. They said this was possible, but I was on my own.
To me its just too much of a compromise so Ive decided on the AOA from
Proprietary Software. Yes, its expensive, almost half of the entire Dynon
instrument, but I think it accurately measures AOA and its operation is
understandable to me. I will very likely go with the Dynon and just not
use/display the AOA indication.
I dont think there is any argument that some type of stall warning device is
beneficial. I also dont think Ive heard anyone say anything bad about any of
these instruments that theyve flown with.
I hope that answers your question Wheeler.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
>Ken, and others, I'm not sure why you say this
>
><<<<<<Their AOA is
>not working yet and the way it's implemented will probably be of little
>value,
>in my opinion.>>>>>>>
>
>First said, I'm NOT trying to bite your head off, and I would like to hear
>your reasons for this.
>
---snip---
The Internet Truckstop
The first and largest
freight matching
service on the
Intenet
______________ ______________ ______________ ______________
Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot |
--> RV-List message posted by: Thomas Velvick <tomvelvick@cox.net>
I know they have a working model on the bench. When and if they will
release it, I dont know. I see on their website that they are working on
an additional optional digital gyro that plugs into their existing
autopilot Head for enhanced turbulence control.
Regards,
Tom
At 11:57 PM 8/11/03 -0700, you wrote:
>Time: 10:13:15 AM PST US
>From: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland@novellus.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: EZ Pilot Digital Autopilot
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "McFarland, Randy"
><Randy.McFarland@novellus.com>
>
>Tom, are they also developing an interface to allow you to couple an
>altitude hold to it as well?
>Randy
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
The website for the Proprietary Software AOA is
http://www.angle-of-attack.com
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
>
>Do you have a link on the AOA you're talking about?
>
>Do Not Archive
>
The Internet Truckstop
The first and largest
freight matching
service on the
Intenet
______________ ______________ ______________ ______________
Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Fw: rv-6 forced landing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
FYI
)_( Dan
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Vetter" <doug@dvcfi.com>
Subject: rv-6 forced landing
> Dan,
>
> Thought you might want to hear...
>
> I was at my mechanic's shop today and saw a really nice -6 covered in
> oil. My mechanic explained that the guy mounted a fixed pitch prop on
> the 200HP IO360 WITHOUT drilling the hole in the rear crank plug. The
> pressure built up and forced the forward seal out, which pumped all but
> 4.5 quarts of oil out of the engine. He landed it in one piece, but
> told my mechanic it was nearly impossible to see out of the canopy
> through all the oil.
>
> Figured you might want to let the RV list guys know about this and
> remind any builders putting fixed pitch props on the IO360 to make sure
> they drill that hole, or else!
>
> -Doug
>
> --
> --------------------
> Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA
> dwvcfii@yahoo.com
> http://www.dvcfi.com
> --------------------
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
>I wasnt aware that anyone other than Dynon was testing the probe. I
>should have expected that since its release to the public is
>imminent. Thats why Im still leaning toward the Dynon even with my
>criticism of their AOA implementationtheir thorough testing prior to
>product release.
>
>Why I say it would be of little value? After some thought, I think
>that term, of little value, was a little harsh.
>
>First, Im not sure the Dynon is measuring AOA. It appears to work
>more like the LRI. Im not saying either of these instruments is
>without value. However, they both rely on an external probe so the
>placement of the probe would have an impact on their accuracy, as
>does pitot placement on airspeed accuracy. The measurements provided
>are measurements in relation to the probe not the wing itself. Yes,
>they can be calibrated to eliminate error, but is this calibration
>valid for all flight configurations? They do provide some type of
>margin to stall so they would be of benefit. It seems the Piper
>blade type pitot/static would provide a more realistic/conservative
>airspeed indication giving similar benefits to the Dynon AOA or LRI.
>
>I can almost overlook this, but I also have a problem with the way
>the AOA indication is buried in the instrument along with no audible
>warning. Yes, a pilot can train himself to add this to a scan, but
>why not get it up in the peripheral vision and/or have an audible
>warning. I asked Dynon about this and they said an audible warning
>is on the future possible features list. I also asked about reading
>the data output and building my own audible warning. They said this
>was possible, but I was on my own.
>
>To me its just too much of a compromise so Ive decided on the AOA
>from Proprietary Software. Yes, its expensive, almost half of the
>entire Dynon instrument, but I think it accurately measures AOA and
>its operation is understandable to me. I will very likely go with
>the Dynon and just not use/display the AOA indication.
>
>I dont think there is any argument that some type of stall warning
>device is beneficial. I also dont think Ive heard anyone say
>anything bad about any of these instruments that theyve flown with.
>
>I hope that answers your question Wheeler.
>
>Ken
Two comments:
1. I agree with the comment about the lack of audible warning, if you
are looking for a stall warning system. Any stall warning system
that requires the pilot to watch his instruments is doomed to
failure. Lets face it, if you know what your airspeed is, and pay a
bit of attention to how hard you pull on the stick, you probably
won't stall.
But, the Dynon (and classical LRI) visual indication only system
could in theory allow you to fly the aircraft more accurately and
achieve better performance. That may or may not be of value to you
depending on what type of flying you do. Certainly if I had an
engine failure I would welcome a system that allowed me to fly at the
lowest possible speed, no matter what my weight was, without risk of
stalling, so I could minimize the speed at touchdown.
Note: I spent a few minutes talking to Al Mojzisik of InAir
Instruments, one of the two vendors selling LRI systems. Al showed
me an add-on aural warning unit that he plans to have on the market
soon. It apparently (I hope I've got this right) can be added to
existing LRI installations to give an aural warning as the stall is
approached. This info isn't yet on their web site.
http://www.liftreserve.com/
2. I wouldn't worry so much about the fact that the Dynon system
"isn't measuring AOA". The Proprietary Software system isn't
measuring AOA either. Both systems measure pressures in the vicinity
of the wing, and infer the Angle of Attack from that. No angles are
measured at all. The only way to tell how well each system works is
to do a good system of flight tests.
Even the AOA vanes you find on fighters, and some transport aircraft
are mounted on the fuselage, so they aren't measuring the airflow
around the wing. There is always quite a big difference between the
changes in angle of the airflow seen at the location of the AOA
probe, and the AOA changes at the wing. But the manufacturer goes
through a test program to determine at what AOA vane angle the wing
will stall. This is not that different from the test program you
will need to do once you install any of the various "AOA" systems.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 49
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| Subject: | Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
* RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
<snip>
I can almost overlook this, but I also have a problem with the way the AOA
indication is buried in the instrument along with no audible warning. Yes, a
pilot can train himself to add this to a scan, but why not get it up in the
peripheral vision and/or have an audible warning. I asked Dynon about this
and they said an audible warning is on the future possible features list. I
also asked about reading the data output and building my own audible
warning. They said this was possible, but I was on my own.
To me its just too much of a compromise so Ive decided on the AOA from
Proprietary Software. Yes, its expensive, almost half of the entire Dynon
instrument, but I think it accurately measures AOA and its operation is
understandable to me. I will very likely go with the Dynon and just not
use/display the AOA indication.
<snip>
One of the things that Blue Mountain Avionics is incorporating into the
EFIS/one is a presentation of Proprietary Software's AoA information. I
installed the ports for the AoA in my wings maybe four years ago, and just
last week ordered the rest of the AoA Sport from Proprietary Software. I
told Jim that I had decided to install the AoA indicator separate from the
EFIS because I wanted it to be more obvious. He said that was fine, and
when I got it all installed, he would give me the code to run it through the
EFIS too, if I wanted. Although I haven't decided for sure, the indicator
may go on top of glare shield. I really didn't like that idea at first, but
the more I think about it, the more it seems like that's where it belongs -
almost in your line of site when looking over the nose.
Another thought ... a local RV-8 pilot told me a few months ago that he
thought his Proprietary Software AoA already saved his butt. The tower
asked him during his takeoff run if he could turn short of an intersecting
runway. He said he cranked it around and then heard the "Angle, Angle,
Push" alarm and realized that he was on the verge of a stall in a steep turn
close to the deck.
If he reads this and wants to correct my version of what I remember, please
do.
Terry
RV-8A finishing
Blue Mountain EFIS/one, Proprietary Software AoA
Someone asked: Proprietary Software's website is www.angle-of-attack.com
Message 50
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| Subject: | efis efis, bla bla bla |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan@hotmail.com>
Let me see if I got it right:
1. Having a TV in your panel is cool, but you need to keep your eyes looking
outside.
2. When IFR, you need to keep your eyes scanning the instruments, so an efis
is cool and useful.
3. Efis is exensive, but the new models are close to the sum of the cost of
individual instruments they are replacing, so that's not too bad.
4. What we really want is something to replace vacuum, or for that mater any
movng mass instrument that might fail, because solid state is the state of
the art.
Seems to me that what the public would realy go for, is:
1. Solid state "gyros" to replace the 3 gyros in the traditional six-pack,
with the same user interface.
2. Less than US$1000 each, somewhere between the price of a vacuum gyro and
an electric one.
3. They need to be the same form factor (unlike the BMA Lite, like the Dynon
D-10) - plug and play.
4. OPTIONAL: cool options like G, AOA, HSI, HITS, TWAS, etc.
The only step in this direction that I know of is PCFLightSystems's E-Gyro
III. The only place where you can see it is on the web, in a PDF brochure:
http://www.pcflightsystems.com/images/PCFSPRODUCTS2003.pdf
It's the first product, listed for US$995, and the form factor of the latest
version is actually
3.125" wide x 3.5" high x 2.0" deep.- that would fit in a standard 3" hole.
Can't wait to read/hear a pilot report on this product.
Amit.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEREK REED" <dreed@cdsnet.net>
I have used this unit for two years and would not be without it.
Put the light bar at the top of the panel right in line with your line of
sight.
Forget the airspeed indicator and fly your approach by the LED lights.
Derek Reed
RV6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon Discussion
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>
> The website for the Proprietary Software AOA is
> http://www.angle-of-attack.com
>
> Ken
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:44:16 -0500
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
> >
> >Do you have a link on the AOA you're talking about?
> >
> >Do Not Archive
> >
>
>
> The Internet Truckstop
> The first and largest
> freight matching
> service on the
> Intenet
>
> ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________
> Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Kevin,
I agree on point number 1. Any instrument that shows lift reserve, calculated AOA,
simulate AOA, whatever, would be a benefit to the pilot if it's used correctly.
I don't think it matters which instrument you're talking about as long as
it can be calibrated for a specific aircraft and the indications at specific
flight conditions are repeatable. The Proprietary Software AOA provides this
ability as well as a highly accurate stall warning. That's why I'm going that
route.
I think I have to disagree a little on point #2. True, you can argue that neither
of the systems are measuring true AOA. I did see one at Oshkosh that probably
does, but it has a large external probe with an airfoil piece that rotates
with the "relative wind" turning a potentiometer. I think it would still have
a problem with probe position errors. I think the difference with the Proprietary
Software AOA is that it's not measuring preasure on a probe in the vicinity
of the wing, it's measuring the pressure on the wing itself. I think this will
minimize the difference between the wing AOA and what the probe is seeing.
Yes jet aircraft have the AOA probe on the fuselage. I think that is the most
accurate you can hope for in a pressure based AOA. The probe in this location
on a fighter is not subject to prop wash nor the change in air flow over/under
the wing as AOA changes. No, it's not measuring an actual angle, but you can
calculate one with a high degree of accuracy.
You make a very good point with your last statement about going through a test
program to calibrate the unit. This is another reason for the Proprietary Software
AOA. They precalibrate the unit for my RV-8 assuming I install the sensing
ports at the correct chord positions on the wing. All I need to do is verify
the calibration.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
>>
>>I wasnt aware that anyone other than Dynon was testing the probe. I
>>should have expected that since its release to the public is
>>imminent. Thats why Im still leaning toward the Dynon even with my
>>criticism of their AOA implementationtheir thorough testing prior to
>>product release.
>>
>>Why I say it would be of little value? After some thought, I think
>>that term, of little value, was a little harsh.
>>
>>First, Im not sure the Dynon is measuring AOA. It appears to work
>>more like the LRI. Im not saying either of these instruments is
>>without value. However, they both rely on an external probe so the
>>placement of the probe would have an impact on their accuracy, as
>>does pitot placement on airspeed accuracy. The measurements provided
>>are measurements in relation to the probe not the wing itself. Yes,
>>they can be calibrated to eliminate error, but is this calibration
>>valid for all flight configurations? They do provide some type of
>>margin to stall so they would be of benefit. It seems the Piper
>>blade type pitot/static would provide a more realistic/conservative
>>airspeed indication giving similar benefits to the Dynon AOA or LRI.
>>
>>I can almost overlook this, but I also have a problem with the way
>>the AOA indication is buried in the instrument along with no audible
>>warning. Yes, a pilot can train himself to add this to a scan, but
>>why not get it up in the peripheral vision and/or have an audible
>>warning. I asked Dynon about this and they said an audible warning
>>is on the future possible features list. I also asked about reading
>>the data output and building my own audible warning. They said this
>>was possible, but I was on my own.
>>
>>To me its just too much of a compromise so Ive decided on the AOA
>>from Proprietary Software. Yes, its expensive, almost half of the
>>entire Dynon instrument, but I think it accurately measures AOA and
>>its operation is understandable to me. I will very likely go with
>>the Dynon and just not use/display the AOA indication.
>>
>>I dont think there is any argument that some type of stall warning
>>device is beneficial. I also dont think Ive heard anyone say
>>anything bad about any of these instruments that theyve flown with.
>>
>>I hope that answers your question Wheeler.
>>
>>Ken
>
>Two comments:
>
>1. I agree with the comment about the lack of audible warning, if you
>are looking for a stall warning system. Any stall warning system
>that requires the pilot to watch his instruments is doomed to
>failure. Lets face it, if you know what your airspeed is, and pay a
>bit of attention to how hard you pull on the stick, you probably
>won't stall.
>
>But, the Dynon (and classical LRI) visual indication only system
>could in theory allow you to fly the aircraft more accurately and
>achieve better performance. That may or may not be of value to you
>depending on what type of flying you do. Certainly if I had an
>engine failure I would welcome a system that allowed me to fly at the
>lowest possible speed, no matter what my weight was, without risk of
>stalling, so I could minimize the speed at touchdown.
>
>Note: I spent a few minutes talking to Al Mojzisik of InAir
>Instruments, one of the two vendors selling LRI systems. Al showed
>me an add-on aural warning unit that he plans to have on the market
>soon. It apparently (I hope I've got this right) can be added to
>existing LRI installations to give an aural warning as the stall is
>approached. This info isn't yet on their web site.
>
>http://www.liftreserve.com/
>
>2. I wouldn't worry so much about the fact that the Dynon system
>"isn't measuring AOA". The Proprietary Software system isn't
>measuring AOA either. Both systems measure pressures in the vicinity
>of the wing, and infer the Angle of Attack from that. No angles are
>measured at all. The only way to tell how well each system works is
>to do a good system of flight tests.
>
>Even the AOA vanes you find on fighters, and some transport aircraft
>are mounted on the fuselage, so they aren't measuring the airflow
>around the wing. There is always quite a big difference between the
>changes in angle of the airflow seen at the location of the AOA
>probe, and the AOA changes at the wing. But the manufacturer goes
>through a test program to determine at what AOA vane angle the wing
>will stall. This is not that different from the test program you
>will need to do once you install any of the various "AOA" systems.
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
The Internet Truckstop
The first and largest
freight matching
service on the
Intenet
______________ ______________ ______________ ______________
Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com
Message 53
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| Subject: | RE: Dynon Survey |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Wessel" <Robin.Wessel@verizon.net>
Yes, I would be very interested in a HSI solution from Dynon. My
definition would be as follows:
Must have
-GPS and mag heading displays on either a 360 deg or 60 deg arc
-HSI style display from GPS NMEA or Argus (ARINC or Aviation) serial
data
-GPS waypoint, course, bearing, distance etc display (this should be
easy)
-D-10 form factor
-<$2K price
-NAV source annunciation
Nice to have
-Analog +/- 150 mv course deviation, and flag inputs for localizer
display
-Heading bug with outputs to NMEA based autopilots such as the trutrack
-User selectable display of NMEA or Aviation serial data from GPS such
as fuel remaining etc
-"localizer alive" annuciator output
-Serial ARINC 429 support from Garmin or UPS GPS's for OBS course select
and glideslope/localizer indication
-Analog support for OBS output (sin/cos/xyz) assuming you do support
ARINC 429
-Built-in Database
Thanks,
Robin Wessel
RV-6A flying
RV-10 on order #23
Tigard, OR
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point
<mailto:jpoint@mindspring.com?subject=Re:%20Dynon%20survey&replyto=20030
8120725.h7C7PNv20270@matronics.com> jpoint@mindspring.com
With all the talk about the Dynon EFIS over the last couple of days,
Ihave decided to email the company and let them know about our feelings
regarding an electric HSI. Before I do so, I would like a show of
hands- how many listers would be interested in an electronic HSI
offering from them? The device I have in mind is as follows:
-uses current Dynon D-10 display hardware
-functions as HSI with 360 deg. and 60 deg arcs
-inputs and displays VOR, LOC and glideslope, as well as GPS signals
-marker beacon lights would be neat
-GPS annunciator would be realy neat
-no need for stormscope, TCAS etc. If you need that buy a Sandell.
-priced similar to the D-10 ($2K)
I would but such a unit right now today. How many others out there?
Jeff Point
RV-6 Panel, wiring
Milwaukee WI
Message 54
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| Subject: | efis efis, bla bla bla |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
They also had the product at OSH
James
<<<SNIP>>>
>
> Seems to me that what the public would realy go for, is:
> 1. Solid state "gyros" to replace the 3 gyros in the traditional
> six-pack,
> with the same user interface.
> 2. Less than US$1000 each, somewhere between the price of a
> vacuum gyro and
> an electric one.
> 3. They need to be the same form factor (unlike the BMA Lite,
> like the Dynon
> D-10) - plug and play.
> 4. OPTIONAL: cool options like G, AOA, HSI, HITS, TWAS, etc.
>
> The only step in this direction that I know of is
> PCFLightSystems's E-Gyro
> III. The only place where you can see it is on the web, in a PDF brochure:
>
> http://www.pcflightsystems.com/images/PCFSPRODUCTS2003.pdf
>
Message 55
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Wheeler.North@matronics.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Folks,
I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might also
be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it, know
it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought of
it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
always very bad bad bad.
But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not anything
close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as the
wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then on
mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than it
was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in and
it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to not
go zipping on by the rwy.
I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail flaps
and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a riptide,
but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation. I
also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was not
prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel the
change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was very
illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed through
it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
Post to me as well as the list as I'm would like to include y'all's comments
in an article for our local chapter newsletter.
thx
W
wnorth@sdccd.net
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