Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:29 AM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Dan Checkoway)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: Fw: rv-6 forced landing (doug)
3. 05:00 AM - Engine Builder (J. R. Dial)
4. 05:02 AM - Re: Wind shear (RV_8 Pilot)
5. 06:13 AM - Re: Wind shear (Pat Hatch)
6. 06:29 AM - Re: Wind shear (a flyer)
7. 06:32 AM - Re: Wind shear (David Burton)
8. 06:41 AM - dynon engine monitor (Frazier, Vincent A)
9. 06:50 AM - PC Flight Systems. (Dana Overall)
10. 06:56 AM - Re: Wind shear (lucky macy)
11. 07:13 AM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Sam Buchanan)
12. 08:01 AM - Re: Dynon Discussion (SportAV8R@aol.com)
13. 08:37 AM - Re: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum NY (Charles Rowbotham)
14. 09:14 AM - Re: Engine Builder (Terry Watson)
15. 09:14 AM - Re: Avionics master relay (Tim Bryan)
16. 09:32 AM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Dan Checkoway)
17. 09:52 AM - longer screws for rocker box covers (Dan Checkoway)
18. 09:56 AM - Re: Dynon Discussion (Sam Buchanan)
19. 10:08 AM - Re: longer screws for rocker box covers (Brian Denk)
20. 10:25 AM - Re: longer screws for rocker box covers (Kyle Boatright)
21. 11:00 AM - LRI/AOA, airspeed (Dan Checkoway)
22. 11:10 AM - Re: Engine Builder (Scott Bilinski)
23. 12:51 PM - LRI/AOA (Al Mojzisik)
24. 01:35 PM - Re: LRI/AOA, airspeed (Sam Buchanan)
25. 02:40 PM - RVA Training (Rquinn1@aol.com)
26. 02:57 PM - RV-4 seat templates ()
27. 02:58 PM - Re: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump (czechsix@juno.com)
28. 03:15 PM - Re: LRI/AOA, airspeed (long) (Doug Rozendaal)
29. 03:23 PM - Re: RVA Training (McFarland, Randy)
30. 03:59 PM - N # change (David.vonLinsowe)
31. 04:03 PM - Re: RVA Training (Nick N)
32. 04:22 PM - Left over parts! (dmedema@att.net)
33. 04:45 PM - Avionics for Sale (Jim Nolan)
34. 05:11 PM - VULTURES formation inbound - FLAPJACK Squadron ESCORT call to arms!!! Re: Fulton NY 9th RV forum (RV6160hp@aol.com)
35. 05:27 PM - Re: Left over parts! (J. R. Dial)
36. 06:44 PM - Re: LRI/AOA, airspeed (long) (Dana Overall)
37. 06:46 PM - SoCAL RV RendezVous (RV6 Flyer)
38. 07:04 PM - AOA (Wheeler North)
39. 07:26 PM - Lost Contact (Emrath)
40. 07:40 PM - Re: Wind shear (Wheeler North)
41. 07:43 PM - Re: AOA (John Starn)
42. 08:02 PM - Mike seager (Gert)
43. 08:15 PM - Cabin Heat (smoothweasel@juno.com)
44. 09:14 PM - Re: Mike seager (N223RV@aol.com)
45. 09:30 PM - Wind shear (Charles Brame)
46. 10:06 PM - Re: Mike seager (aronsond)
47. 10:30 PM - Re: Wind shear (Leland)
48. 10:50 PM - Re: Avionics master relay (Vanremog@aol.com)
49. 10:53 PM - Re: Avionics master relay (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Forget the airspeed indicator and fly your approach by the LED lights.
Wow. Just one little bout with wind shear and you might regret you said
that... 8-) I know, I'm taking you too literally, but that's a pretty bold
statement.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
)_( Dan
not a big fan of AOA/LRI
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: rv-6 forced landing |
Netscape/7.02
--> RV-List message posted by: doug <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Was the engne fitted with the govenor oil line with the correct blanking
plate on the pad?
If it was not and the openings plugged then it is perfectly understandable.
Doug Gray
again... do not archive
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> FYI
>
> )_( Dan
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Vetter" <doug@dvcfi.com>
> To: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Subject: rv-6 forced landing
>
>
>
>>Dan,
>>
>>Thought you might want to hear...
>>
>>I was at my mechanic's shop today and saw a really nice -6 covered in
>>oil. My mechanic explained that the guy mounted a fixed pitch prop on
>>the 200HP IO360 WITHOUT drilling the hole in the rear crank plug. The
>>pressure built up and forced the forward seal out, which pumped all but
>>4.5 quarts of oil out of the engine. He landed it in one piece, but
>>told my mechanic it was nearly impossible to see out of the canopy
>>through all the oil.
>>
>>Figured you might want to let the RV list guys know about this and
>>remind any builders putting fixed pitch props on the IO360 to make sure
>>they drill that hole, or else!
>>
>>-Doug
>>
>>--
>>--------------------
>>Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA
>>dwvcfii@yahoo.com
>>http://www.dvcfi.com
>>--------------------
>>
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Anybody used America's Aircraft Engines, Inc. for new XP-360
engines and are you satisfied etc? I am ready to buy an engine and would
appreciate past experience. Email me direct if you choose rather than
clutter the list.
Thanks
Dick
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Thanks for sharing that interesting story with us, Wheeler. I've never
experienced anything that severe landing. I've got into pretty good
sinks/downdrafts near mountains and thunderstorm cells, but basically just
180'd out of them.
when I'm landing (and teaching them) in gusty or questionable wind
siutuations, I recommend normal approach +5 or 10 on the airspeed. Not very
sophisticated, but it gives a little additional energy to play with if
something like you experienced happens.
To detect this, other than seeing airspeed fluctuations, I'd say your
eyeballs and maybe the VSI would be about the best way to recognize
excessive decent rate. VASI and glideslope would be helpful if
present/equipped.
In hindsight, I wonder about pulling flaps though. I'd probably think
leaving them in (at least at a reasonable climb stetting) would be better.
If one smacks the ground, at least they'd have less groundspeed/energy.
my 2
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
>I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
>incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might also
>be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
>recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
>
>In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it, know
>it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought of
>it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
>always very bad bad bad.
>
>But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
>black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not anything
>close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
>
>Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as the
>wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then on
>mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than it
>was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in
>and
>it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
>apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to not
>go zipping on by the rwy.
>
>I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
>recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail flaps
>and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a riptide,
>but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation. I
>also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
>such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
>
>This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was
>not
>prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
>180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel the
>change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was very
>illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed through
>it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
>
>I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
>out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Wheeler,
I can tell you how we train for wind shear in the Gulfstream jets if that
might help. We practice in the simulator all the time. They have various
actual scenarios programed into the sim, like the DC-10 accident at DFW.
You get to experience the visual, some of the motion, and get the cues for
what it looks like. The way they teach it is anytime you see something that
doesn't look right or feel right, add full power, rotate to the stick shaker
and do not change any configuration. It is pretty dramatic, sometimes you
crash, sometimes you make it out, depends on your technique, how soon you
start the recovery, how smooth you are. How does this translate to the
RV's? One technique might be: add full power, rotate to Vx, do not raise
flaps until out of the situation.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
<Wheeler.North@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wind shear
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Folks,
>
> I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
> incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might
also
> be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
> recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
>
> In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it, know
> it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought of
> it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
> always very bad bad bad.
>
> But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
> black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not anything
> close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
>
> Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as
the
> wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then
on
> mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than it
> was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in
and
> it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
> apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to
not
> go zipping on by the rwy.
>
> I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
> recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail
flaps
> and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a
riptide,
> but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation. I
> also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
> such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
>
> This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was
not
> prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
> 180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel the
> change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was very
> illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed
through
> it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
>
> I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
> out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
>
> Post to me as well as the list as I'm would like to include y'all's
comments
> in an article for our local chapter newsletter.
>
> thx
> W
> wnorth@sdccd.net
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: a flyer <aflyer@direcway.com>
Wheeler, it sounds like you flew under a microburst. They are not uncommon
in the dry, mountain west, especially in the afternoon.
Basically, a shaft of virga (rain that evaporates in the dry air, before
reaching the ground) cools the air with the evaporation, and creates a
column of cold air that "falls" to the ground. High in the air, the column
of air will cause quite a downdraft, for a minute or so as you fly through
it. Closer to the ground, the column of air causes an area of winds that
blow away from it, as the falling column impacts the ground.
So, as you fly on final toward the microburst, you have a headwind, and your
ground speed is reduced. Then you fly into the falling column itself, and
you lose some airspeed, and are in a downdraft (full power now). Then you
fly out of the downdraft, but into an area of tailwinds (still full power).
As indicated by its name, micro burst, it can be a small, concentrated area,
and the whole cycle can happen in 30 seconds on final.
This phenomenon has brought down many airplanes...hard landings in 172, and
full blown crashes in airliners (imagine waiting for your engines to spool
up while you are falling). Denver International Airport has had an
experiment going on for the last couple of years with a huge array of
sensors to detect microbursts, and provide automated warning to incoming and
outgoing airliners.
There have been many articles in the flying mags over the years complete
with good graphics, etc. It is something to watch for as you fly in the dry
mountain areas, and the afternoons are the worst time. Best thing you can do
in our country is be at your destination by noon.
John Huft RV8
Pagosa Springs, CO (100 nm north of Santa Fe)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
<Wheeler.North@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wind shear
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Folks,
>
> I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
> incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might
also
> be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
> recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
>
> In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it, know
> it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought of
> it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
> always very bad bad bad.
>
> But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
> black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not anything
> close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
>
> Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as
the
> wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then
on
> mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than it
> was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in
and
> it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
> apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to
not
> go zipping on by the rwy.
>
> I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
> recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail
flaps
> and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a
riptide,
> but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation. I
> also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
> such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
>
> This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was
not
> prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
> 180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel the
> change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was very
> illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed
through
> it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
>
> I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
> out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
>
> Post to me as well as the list as I'm would like to include y'all's
comments
> in an article for our local chapter newsletter.
>
> thx
> W
> wnorth@sdccd.net
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was.
I suspect that the 7000' elevation may have played some part in this. I
don't know where your home airport is.... mine is at sea level. Maybe
Brian Denk would like to chime in on this.
Message 8
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| Subject: | dynon engine monitor |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
Not that I wouldn't want an HSI, but I, for one, am anxiously looking forward to
the Dynon engine monitor. I can't believe the price of the ones on the market
now.... over $3000 for a bunch of thermocouples and pressure sensors. Gasp!
I think the folks at Dynon have a sound business plan going for them if they can
get an EM to the market for a reasonable price... anything less than $2000 IMHO.
Vince
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | PC Flight Systems. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
This may be a viable stand alone backup for me to go along with my Dynon and
Grand Rapids. I really would like to pitch these round gauges.
Does anyone on the list have the pcflightsystems egyro stand alone IPAQ? If
so, how do you like it? The idea of having a second totally separate,
battery backup artificial horizon with airspeed and altitude (albeit, coming
from a GPS) is a little interesting.
Striving to be all glass!!
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
From the you got to be ready for anything department:
While doing touch and goes on a very calm and dark night in a C-172 at a
towered airport with separate ground and air freqs, there was a citation jet
at the runup area (he was there before I came into the pattern and there was
no comm that I heard from/to him) with his exhaust pointed down the runway
(I discovered later). I also later learned he was doing full power runups
to test engines which were just worked on.
About 30 to 50 feet above the runway on final, the "bottom fell out" from
underneath the runway and the student pilot passenger and I thought we were
going to pancake in. At the last possible moment, we cleared through the
jet blast and it felt like a hand came up under the wings and pushed them
up just enough to make it a rough landing vs. the crash we were preparing
for. I had gone to full throttle during the final decent and as a result
was at take off speed in no time and ended up leaving the ground. I decided
to continue up as everything felt normal again and looked normal.
It felt like how a really bad wind shear might be described but how could
that be on a beautiful night?
As I was trying to figure out how to ask tower about what just occured and
what they knew of it while on downwind, another piston plane was taking off
me and called up during takeoff to say he almost got completely blown off
the runway and barely got off the ground. He literally said it was the
strangest feeling he ever had in an airplane. I had to agree with him on
that one!
Tower immediately calls over to the citation and asks them nicely to turn
the jet around a little bit so the exhaust wouldn't go towards the active.
What would you do?
lucky
do not archive
>From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Wind shear
>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:58:56 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
>Thanks for sharing that interesting story with us, Wheeler. I've never
>experienced anything that severe landing. I've got into pretty good
>sinks/downdrafts near mountains and thunderstorm cells, but basically just
>180'd out of them.
>
>when I'm landing (and teaching them) in gusty or questionable wind
>siutuations, I recommend normal approach +5 or 10 on the airspeed. Not
>very
>sophisticated, but it gives a little additional energy to play with if
>something like you experienced happens.
>
>To detect this, other than seeing airspeed fluctuations, I'd say your
>eyeballs and maybe the VSI would be about the best way to recognize
>excessive decent rate. VASI and glideslope would be helpful if
>present/equipped.
>
>In hindsight, I wonder about pulling flaps though. I'd probably think
>leaving them in (at least at a reasonable climb stetting) would be better.
>If one smacks the ground, at least they'd have less groundspeed/energy.
>
>my 2
>
>Bryan Jones -8
>Pearland, Texas
>
> >I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
> >incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might
>also
> >be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
> >recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
> >
> >In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it,
>know
> >it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought
>of
> >it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
> >always very bad bad bad.
> >
> >But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
> >black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not
>anything
> >close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
> >
> >Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as
>the
> >wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then
>on
> >mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than
>it
> >was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in
> >and
> >it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
> >apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to
>not
> >go zipping on by the rwy.
> >
> >I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
> >recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail
>flaps
> >and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a
>riptide,
> >but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation.
>I
> >also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
> >such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
> >
> >This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was
> >not
> >prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
> >180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel
>the
> >change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was
>very
> >illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed
>through
> >it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
> >
> >I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
> >out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > Forget the airspeed indicator and fly your approach by the LED lights.
>
> Wow. Just one little bout with wind shear and you might regret you said
> that... 8-) I know, I'm taking you too literally, but that's a pretty bold
> statement.
Hmmmm........
It has been my experience with the LRI that wind shear on approaches is
detected MUCH quicker with the LRI than with the airspeed indicator. It
is interesting to compare the LRI needle to the airspeed indicator on a
gusty approach; the LRI is in constant motion as the airflow around the
probe changes while the airspeed indicator is showing a more stable
speed.
I would think an AOA would be the superior instrument when encountering
wind shear since it reacts quicker to the rapidly changing wind
conditions.
I too have learned to fly approaches, calm air or otherwise, by using
the LRI as the primary instrument.
Sam Buchanan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
In a message dated 08/12/2003 6:33:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us writes:
> During take off I have now had several high density altitude take offs
> where
> both airspeeds said go, but the AOA was still saying to much AOA for the
> current airspeed so I gratefully left it on the runway a little longer.
>
Okay, time to admit confusion here... I am mystified as to why this would be
so. I always thought the airspeed indicator was subject to density altitude
errors equal in magnitude and direction to the density altitude effect on the
wing's performance. In other words, I have assumed that an _indicated_
airspeed would give a reliable prediction of the wing's performance regardless
of
density altitude.
As an aside (but also a corollary) I had assumed, without ever testing it
myself, that in unaccelerated level flight at the aircraft service ceiling, the
indicated airspeed would read a value very close to Vstall, showing that the
wing, while actually moving significantly faster in terms of TAS, was seeing
such thin air that it was at the critical AoA just maintaining altutude Tell me
what I'm missing, somebody.
-Bill B
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV Forum |
NY
Sept. 12-13-14
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Cy,
Oswego airport, just NE of Syrcuse, NY
Chuck
>From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV
>Forum NY Sept. 12-13-14
>Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:17:38 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>Sounds like a nice event BUT WHERE? I read thru your message but the
>location wasn't to be found.
>
>Cy Galley
>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <RV6160hp@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: EAA FORUM Fulton NY, NOW RV9 Flight Training, 9th RV
>Forum
>NY Sept. 12-13-14
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
> >
> > Mark your calendars and plan to attend.
> > September 12, 2003 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA
>486 General meeting night too.
> > September 13, 2003 Saturday technical seminars all day, meals provided
>to
>paid attendee's. Then a nice dinner banquet with a presentation. This
>year Mr. Kirk House, ex-Director Curator of the Glenn Cirtiss Museum will
>talk about the books on Glenn he wrote, and how Glenn was the ultimate
>Experimenter!
> > September 14, 2003 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a
>coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
> >
> > see us at www.eaachapter486.com
> >
> > We will be updating (correcting-there are ome errors now) our site soon
>with the 2003 plans. Last year over 56+ RV's and 25 SPAM's flew in with
>over 150 attendee's.
> >
> > This year we have (thank the man upstairs and VAN for the support) Mike
>Seager and the Factory RV9, yes RV9 doing transitional RV flight
>instruction
>(which is filling up fast again this year so you builders who are close to
>flight email Craig Warner at cwarner@twcny.rr.com )
> >
> > I could go on...but you've been here before and get the picture...just
>ask
>some one who has been there the $40 (pre registered) is easily worth it.
>Hope to See you all there.
> >
> > OH and Al and I plan to give rides this year Dammmmmit! You know my
>RV?
>ARE YOU GAME...you need to initiate requests to Piots on your own...don't
>be
>shy, many pilots waiting for the kind gesture-request!!!!
> >
> > Respectfully,
> > David McManmon
> > President EAA 486
> > RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Anybody used America's Aircraft Engines, Inc. for new XP-360
engines and are you satisfied etc? I am ready to buy an engine and would
appreciate past experience. Email me direct if you choose rather than
clutter the list.
Thanks
Dick
I know this is not an answer to the question you asked, but it seems like a
good time to report how extremely pleased I am that I bought my engine from
Aero Sport Power, often referred to on the list as Bart, the owner. It is a
Superior IO-360-B1B, but the data plate says Aero Sport Power, not Superior.
It has the Lightspeed ignition (flywheel sensor) on the right side and
Airflow Performance fuel injection. It is set up for a constant speed prop.
Otherwise it is stock. The thing that has pleased me so much so far is that
is that I keep running across little things that they have done to make it
easier for me. The Airflow Performance fuel injection came with Van's
install kit including anodized filtered air box plate and throttle and
mixture control brackets. The purge valve, an option with the Airfllow
Performance fuel injection, was installed. The fuel pump and filter were in
the box. The fire-sleeved prop governor hose was installed. And to top it
off, the restrictor fitting for the oil pressure was already installed. It
won't fly for a long time yet but I am really glad of my choice of engine
builder.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 hooking up the engine
Seattle
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Avionics master relay |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <tim@bryantechnology.com>
I got the scoop on this relay from the av tech that installed it. A lister
gave me information enough to track him down. (Thank You)
The interesting part is the relay is a NC relay. When it is powered up via
the Master relay it closes and prevents power from flowing to the av bus and
then when the avionics master switch is turned on the relay is unpowered to
power up the av bus. I have tested this to be true and was told it was to
eliminate the relay from getting hot. ( must not be continuous duty)
Questions:
1 - Does this eliminate the need for a diode?
2 - Is there a split second when the master relay comes on and power goes to
the av bus
before the av relay shuts it down?
3 - Is there any reason for this to be different?
In your opinion, of course.
Thanks
Tim
-------Original Message-------
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/11/2003 6:28:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tim@bryantechnology.com writes:
> On the label there are two different numbers as follows:
> - W-R/RBM (In bold)
> -70-311224-5A
>
This relay is made by White-Rogers, so you could consult them for a wiring
diagram or you could buzz it out yourself with an ohmmeter.
My guess is that the two small terminals are for the primary coil and the
two
large terminals are the normally open (NO) switched contacts. The case is
likely not electrically connected to anything. You would want to install a
catch diode (1N4002) back biased across the primary coil to protect your
switch.
I would also guess that, since it is meant to be a continuous duty type
relay, the primary coil resistance is around 16 ohms.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 642hrs)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> > > Forget the airspeed indicator and fly your approach by the LED lights.
> >
> > Wow. Just one little bout with wind shear and you might regret you said
> > that... 8-) I know, I'm taking you too literally, but that's a pretty
bold
> > statement.
>
> It has been my experience with the LRI that wind shear on approaches is
> detected MUCH quicker with the LRI than with the airspeed indicator. It
No doubt. All I was saying is that if you're flying in conditions where
wind shear and/or downdrafts are predictably present, the LRI should no
longer be your "primary" resource, and airspeed again becomes critical. You
might have all the lift in the world, but if you don't have an appropriately
safe margin of airspeed (added specifically for the situation), then you
might get into trouble.
Yeah, I know, it's all tied into each other and you really can't have one
without the other (airspeed without lift), all things being equal.
All I'm suggesting is -- *still* use that airspeed indicator, whether you
have LRI/AOA or not. Otherwise, why do you have it in the plane at all?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | longer screws for rocker box covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I'm looking for a source for slightly longer rocker box cover screws. My
understanding is that you need to build up a flat surface with washers in
order to use an adel clamp for spark plug wires (the cover itself has an
up-turned flange that would get in the way). I'm not sure if I can use the
stock screws as-is, i.e. whether there would be enough thread left over
after adding those washers and the clamp itself.
Anyway, can somebody point me at a source for longer screws, if they exist?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Discussion |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > > > Forget the airspeed indicator and fly your approach by the LED lights.
> > >
> > > Wow. Just one little bout with wind shear and you might regret you said
> > > that... 8-) I know, I'm taking you too literally, but that's a pretty
> bold
> > > statement.
> >
> > It has been my experience with the LRI that wind shear on approaches is
> > detected MUCH quicker with the LRI than with the airspeed indicator. It
>
> No doubt. All I was saying is that if you're flying in conditions where
> wind shear and/or downdrafts are predictably present, the LRI should no
> longer be your "primary" resource, and airspeed again becomes critical. You
> might have all the lift in the world, but if you don't have an appropriately
> safe margin of airspeed (added specifically for the situation), then you
> might get into trouble.
>
> Yeah, I know, it's all tied into each other and you really can't have one
> without the other (airspeed without lift), all things being equal.
>
> All I'm suggesting is -- *still* use that airspeed indicator, whether you
> have LRI/AOA or not. Otherwise, why do you have it in the plane at all?
>
I don't want to drag out this discussion beyond its usefulness, but I
fail to follow your argument and am afraid it may be misleading to some
who are new to the concept of "flying" an AOA indicator.
Yes, it is very prudent to add a fudge factor to approach speeds to
allow for the unexpected gust when flying in turbulence. But the
airspeed indicator is not necessary for this allowance when using an AOA
indicator. With the LRI, simply fly with the needle a bit higher into
the green than usual; with the LED type indicators, fly a couple bars
higher (I think it's higher) on the indicator. This will allow for the
"gust factor" and still yield the superior performance of the AOA over a
conventional airspeed indicator.
Are you suggesting that the Navy-trained aviators chuck their AOA
indicators and revert to the airspeed indicator when the wind starts
blowing?
As to why to even have an airspeed indicator--The LRI is useful only at
airspeeds in the flap range. Besides, I need numbers to throw at C172
drivers when they start asking about RVs...... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: longer screws for rocker box covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
om: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: longer screws for rocker box covers
>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:50:19 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>I'm looking for a source for slightly longer rocker box cover screws. My
>understanding is that you need to build up a flat surface with washers in
>order to use an adel clamp for spark plug wires (the cover itself has an
>up-turned flange that would get in the way). I'm not sure if I can use the
>stock screws as-is, i.e. whether there would be enough thread left over
>after adding those washers and the clamp itself.
>
>Anyway, can somebody point me at a source for longer screws, if they exist?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
Just bend the tabs on the Adel clamps a bit so they nest down over the lip
of the cover. Stock screws work fine.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
345 hrs.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: longer screws for rocker box covers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: longer screws for rocker box covers
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> I'm looking for a source for slightly longer rocker box cover screws. My
> understanding is that you need to build up a flat surface with washers in
> order to use an adel clamp for spark plug wires (the cover itself has an
> up-turned flange that would get in the way). I'm not sure if I can use
the
> stock screws as-is, i.e. whether there would be enough thread left over
> after adding those washers and the clamp itself.
>
> Anyway, can somebody point me at a source for longer screws, if they
exist?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
Dan,
IIRC, these are simply coarse threaded 5/16 screws. You could amost
certainly get a similar screw at the local hardware store. I bought some
through Van's (they provide a few in the baffle hardware kit, I simply
ordered a few more). The odd thing is that the screws I got from Van's
(which have phillips heads) tend to back out over time, and the ancient
slotted ones that came with my engine core don't back out...
Go figure.
KB
Message 21
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| Subject: | LRI/AOA, airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Are you suggesting that the Navy-trained aviators chuck their AOA
> indicators and revert to the airspeed indicator when the wind starts
> blowing?
No, 'course not. I'm just saying that they're not ignoring their airspeed
either. 8-)
The way it strikes me, hearing you guys boast (maybe that's the wrong term)
about how you can fly approaches solely by reference to the LRI/AOA is like
saying you can ditch the DG or compass on an ILS approach as long as you
keep the CDI needle centered.
All I'm saying is be smart and fly safely.
Hey, just curious. What failure modes do these LRI/AOA indicators have, and
what are the symptoms? Again, just curious...not trying to pick on 'em.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Your forgot to mention that it comes with Alt and light weght starter also!!
I needed a very expensive fitting that i could not find anywhere. i called
them up and they sent me one free. In my book they (AeroSport Power) are
the best.
At 09:13 AM 8/13/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
>
>
> Anybody used America's Aircraft Engines, Inc. for new XP-360
>engines and are you satisfied etc? I am ready to buy an engine and would
>appreciate past experience. Email me direct if you choose rather than
>clutter the list.
> Thanks
> Dick
>I know this is not an answer to the question you asked, but it seems like a
>good time to report how extremely pleased I am that I bought my engine from
>Aero Sport Power, often referred to on the list as Bart, the owner. It is a
>Superior IO-360-B1B, but the data plate says Aero Sport Power, not Superior.
>It has the Lightspeed ignition (flywheel sensor) on the right side and
>Airflow Performance fuel injection. It is set up for a constant speed prop.
>Otherwise it is stock. The thing that has pleased me so much so far is that
>is that I keep running across little things that they have done to make it
>easier for me. The Airflow Performance fuel injection came with Van's
>install kit including anodized filtered air box plate and throttle and
>mixture control brackets. The purge valve, an option with the Airfllow
>Performance fuel injection, was installed. The fuel pump and filter were in
>the box. The fire-sleeved prop governor hose was installed. And to top it
>off, the restrictor fitting for the oil pressure was already installed. It
>won't fly for a long time yet but I am really glad of my choice of engine
>builder.
>Terry
>RV-8A #80729 hooking up the engine
>Seattle
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik <prober@iwaynet.net>
(BIG SNIP)
>Note: I spent a few minutes talking to Al Mojzisik of InAir
>Instruments, one of the two vendors selling LRI systems. Al showed
>me an add-on aural warning unit that he plans to have on the market
>soon. It apparently (I hope I've got this right) can be added to
>existing LRI installations to give an aural warning as the stall is
>approached. This info isn't yet on their web site.
>
>http://www.liftreserve.com/
>(Snip)
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Kevin,
Yes I was displaying a prototype system at Oshkosh this year that will give
you a green LED when flying above the trip settings that you set on your
LRI and then it will change to a yellow LED and give you an audible warning
in your headset and then five marks lower on your LRI gauge will change to
a red LED and give you another audible warning. These points are exactly
the width of the white arc on the LRI gauge. The pilot will be able to set
these warnings points with the simple push of a small button on the LED
panel with a paper clip but they will always be five marks apart. The
display will be about .5" tall and about 1.5" wide and about 1/8" thick
with the wire going out the back so that it can either be inset in the
panel or simply use Velcro to stick it to the panel. The details are
still being worked out, however it will be a first class installation. The
magic controller box is 2" X 3.25" X 1.125" and will simply "T" into the
air lines between the probe and gauge. The unit will run on anything from 5
to 34 volts (9v battery or 12v-24v aircraft electrical system.) and can be
placed almost anywhere in the aircraft. Current owners of LRI's purchased
from InAir Instruments will be offered these annunciators at a discount
initially. I hope to have units available by the end of this year if
testing goes smoothly. Sam Buchanan has agreed to Beta Test one of the
first units since I know he will be unbiased and won't hold back about
criticism. This electronic annunciator will not be available without the
gauge. I would strongly recommend that it not be installed without the
gauge since the gauge offers so much useful information when you learn to
fly it.
Another thing we are working on is a 2.25" gauge that will display almost
as large as the current LRI but will fit in a standard 2.25" hole on your
panel. I hope to have these available by the end of the year also. Again
current LRI owners of record will have these available at a discount first
if they choose to exchange gauges from the current format.
We have no plans for a pure LED LRI since I still believe that flying the
needle is the way to go. Simple and trouble free and totally stand alone
as a system. When everything else spills electrons, your LRI will still be
there to get you down safely when you need it most!
As a side note we are working on a new upgraded website thanks to another
RV-Lister. (Thanks Mark)
I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this company information on the RV-List
and will refrain from any further promotion of the LRI here. AL
Al Mojzisik
InAir Instruments LLC
Lift Reserve Indicator
(614) 890-6301
http://www.liftreserve.com/
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: LRI/AOA, airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
<snip>
> The way it strikes me, hearing you guys boast (maybe that's the wrong term)
> about how you can fly approaches solely by reference to the LRI/AOA is like
> saying you can ditch the DG or compass on an ILS approach as long as you
> keep the CDI needle centered.
Yep, "boast" is definitely the wrong term.
And, the comparison you make between using an AOA indicator and ignoring
all directional instruments on an approach is faulty and irrelevant. In
none of my posts on this subject did I state that the LRI was the only
instrument available to me while flying an approach in turbulent air. I
merely stated that after becoming very familiar with the LRI, it is the
*primary* instrument used to determine desired speed on final. I suspect
that the CDI is also the primary instrument used by most IFR pilots when
flying an ILS approach unless something happens to cause them to suspect
the validity of the CDI.
>
> All I'm saying is be smart and fly safely.
Is the implication that pilots who use an AOA indicator as a primary
instrument are stupid and flying unsafely? ;-)
>
> Hey, just curious. What failure modes do these LRI/AOA indicators have, and
> what are the symptoms? Again, just curious...not trying to pick on 'em.
Good question. The only "AOA" system I have first-hand experience with
is the LRI. It is an extremely simple unit, basically a differential
pressure gauge that is ram-air driven by a blade-type pitot that is
mounted on the bottom surface of the wing. The only failure mode I see
is either a plugged port on the blade, a blade that has been damaged
between flights (the system is calibrated by adjusting the angle of the
pitot blade) or a failed indicator. Preflight includes looking at the
index marks on the pitot to insure it has not been disturbed, and during
takeoff, the LRI and airspeed indicators are crosschecked to make sure
no gross errors are occurring. I must admit that I then assume the
indicator will work properly the remainder of the flight. However, I
also perform a crosscheck with the airspeed indicator a couple of times
during the pattern to make sure that nothing crazy has happened to the
LRI.
Dan, I certainly appreciate and support your right to not be an AOA fan,
and your prejudice against the AOA systems is very evident. :-)
But.......I think if you flew with one for awhile......you would like
it.
I need to clarify a statement I made in an earlier post. I said that the
LRI only works while in the flap range of speeds. That is not
technically correct. In what most of us would consider routine flight
ops, once we exceed the white arc, the LRI needle is pegged in the
green. However, if a high-G stall occurred, the needle *should* drop
back down to indicate the loss of lift. I say *should*, because I have
never done a 4-G stall in my plane. Ok, so I'm a wimp....
Sam Buchanan (looking forward to testing Al's new audio add-on)
LRI installation here:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
Message 25
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--> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com
A few months ago a RV builder who is also a CFI sent a message that he would
consider helping RV6A builders become aquatinted with their new aircraft and
that he could travel to the site to provide this help.
If I remember correctly he was out of Fort Worth.
Can anyone provide us some guidance?
Thanks
Rollie & Rod
RV6A. Almost ready
Message 26
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| Subject: | RV-4 seat templates |
--> RV-List message posted by: <tomvelvick@cox.net>
Does anyone have or have a link to a site that give the dimensions to make RV-4
seats?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
RV-4 N53KT
RV-6a N188KJ wiring
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
I'm the one who originally posted the info on the 40007E pump, and as Mitch says
the *primary* visible difference between the 478360 (which is widely used on
low wing Pipers) and the 40007E is that the 40007E has larger 1/4" pipe threads
on the inlet and outlet, which is compatible with the fuel lines and fittings
used on the RV. The 478360 will undoubtedly work just fine, but you are adding
two more unnecessary restrictions to the fuel flow which can be avoided with
the 40007E. The other difference is that the "E" in 40007E designates that
the pump has Facet's new and improved solid-state triggering device to actuate
the pump, vs. the old mechanical contact points used in the 478360 series.
While the reliability of the points has proven to be pretty good, the solid state
control eliminates one more thing to wear out and fail.
Everything else about the 40007E is identical to the 478360, including the inlet
screen (which serves as a type of filter, but call it whatever you like :).
As for gascolators, I won't go into the debate on whether or not they are needed
or even beneficial since it's been discussed quite a bit in the archives. But
I will inquire as to what kind of gascolator your friend is having trouble
with? Many of the gascolators on spam cans have well-deserved bad reputations
because of the crappy way in which they are secured (if the word "secure" can
even be used in this context!). If that were my only option I'd fly without
one too. But the Andair unit I have seems to me to be mechanically robust and
pretty foolproof in its assembly and maintenance. I imagine the O-ring seal
could eventually wear out, or leak if it were badly marred, but simple inspection
before reassembly should alleviate any concerns about this causing a problem.
If anyone has had problems with Andair's gascolator I'd sure like to hear
about it...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D painting....
Time: 02:55:16 PM PST US
From: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchfaatz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cylindrical Facet fuel pump
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchfaatz@hotmail.com>
>I've been using the Facet #478360 sold by Aircraft Spruce for three years.
>It looks just like the one I had in my Cheetah. What's so different about
>the #40007E? Is it the filter element, size, or what? The #478360
>doesn't have a filter; but, it does have a screen in the bottom. The
>bottom comes off easily for maintenance and costs a about $70. The price
>is certainly better! Alas, I don't have a gascolator on my RV. A friend
>of mine did and is already having problems with it.
I believe the main difference is that the 478360 has smaller 1/8" pipe
threads.
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: LRI/AOA, airspeed (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Snip
> The way it strikes me, hearing you guys boast (maybe that's the wrong
term)
> about how you can fly approaches solely by reference to the LRI/AOA is
like
> saying you can ditch the DG or compass on an ILS approach as long as you
> keep the CDI needle centered.
>
> All I'm saying is be smart and fly safely.
Snip
Airspeed is a terrible way to fly an approach, UNLESS..... you have a chart
that gives a ref speed for every weight. In a big swept wing airplane Vref
is based on weight and then cross checked to AOA to determine if someone is
lying. The math determines the speed you need to get the AOA that you want
for a landing. The AOA or LRI type instruments indicate the desired AOA
directly regardless of weight, or Load factor, without gross weight or math
errors.
If all we did was take-off and land, we would definitely chose an AOA type
instrument over airspeed. For navigation (and a few other key functions) we
need airspeed, so we install it and then use it to land with because it is
good enough in a small airplane landing on a big runway. And with some pilot
skill we can use the seat of our pants to extract some additional
performance. One could build a case, that with GPS and AOA, the DG and the
Airspeed indicator are obsolete. ( that should stir the pot! Just kidding,
sort of, there is still that whole Vne thing )
As to the whole discussion of the configuration changes LRI vs a true AOA
indicator, on a simple airplane without slats or very complex flaps, these
instruments are accurate enough for the application without correction for
configuration.
Your comment about failure modes is a fair one, That is the reason the big
planes still figure a Vref even though they have AOA is just for that
purpose. If the computed Vref doesn't correlate with the AOA, then someone
is lying and then you figure out who is lying. The same would be true in an
RV. If the LRI gets a bug in a port, it will lie to you. The same is true
for your airspeed indicator. How do you backup your airspeed indicator when
a bug flies up the Pitot tube in an RV? The seat of your pants is a good
answer, but having said that, AOA is useful information if you want to
extract the last little bit of performance out of your airplane.
My biggest gripe about all these "gadgets" (Dynon, LRI, Rocky Enc etc) is
that they draw attention inside the cockpit. My new RV-4 is a full of
gadgets, and I am struggling to keep my head out. (of the cockpit!) Fly the
airplane!!! But having said that, (much to the dismay of my friend LRI Al)
when the heated pitot is available for the Dynon, I suspect I will buy one,
because someday, the fire might go out and, I may need to extract the last
ounce of lift from my airplane to put it in a really small spot....... .
"Just because it is the way we know how to do it best, it is not necessarily
the best way to do it........"
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland@novellus.com>
On the training subject, is there a 6A or 7A out there in the Ft. Worth area
that would be willing to give a 7A (60%) builder a ride over Thanksgiving
weekend so I can see what I'm getting myself into? I had a short demo ride
in the 9A so don't know how the 6A or 7A compares.
Thx
Randy McFarland
N821RL reserved
San Jose, Calif.
----------
From: Rquinn1@aol.com [SMTP:Rquinn1@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 2:38 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: RVA Training
--> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com
A few months ago a RV builder who is also a CFI sent a message that
he would
consider helping RV6A builders become aquatinted with their new
aircraft and
that he could travel to the site to provide this help.
If I remember correctly he was out of Fort Worth.
Can anyone provide us some guidance?
Thanks
Rollie & Rod
RV6A. Almost ready
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
I would like to change the N number on my RV. I've got the new number
reserved. What's next? What form do I need and where do I get it?
Thanks,
Dave
The need for (more) speed---->
I'm sure the new # will make it faster :-)
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Nick N" <rvator@nicknaf.com>
The one I know of is in Mesquite. Ben Johnson is flying a -6a.
http://mesquiteaviation.net/aircraft-rental.htm
I haven't flown with them, so no personal experience. YMMV.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rquinn1@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RVA Training
--> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com
A few months ago a RV builder who is also a CFI sent a message that he
would
consider helping RV6A builders become aquatinted with their new aircraft
and
that he could travel to the site to provide this help.
If I remember correctly he was out of Fort Worth.
Can anyone provide us some guidance?
Thanks
Rollie & Rod
RV6A. Almost ready
Message 32
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| Subject: | Left over parts! |
--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net
I'm doing final assembly of my -6A after 11+ years of construction.
One thing I've noticed is that I have left over hardware. Part
of this may be from getting hardware for parts of the kit that I
didn't get such as the tip-up canopy and the tailwheel. In any case,
I seem to have a lot of drilled bolts and castellated nuts. The
question is: did I forget to put them someplace? Working from
memory, here are all the places I used drilled bolts/castellated
nuts:
Engine mount to fuselage
Rudder/brake pedals
Rudder cables to rudder
Main wing rear spar attach
Fuel tank to fuse mount (don't think this is in the plans though)
I'll do a thorough check of the plans, but I can't fathom where
all the drilled bolts should/could be used. They include various
lengths of both AN3 and AN4 bolts including two approximately
3 inch AN4 bolts.
Can anybody add to my list for a -6A with sliding canopy?
Thanks,
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM reserved, hope to do 1st engine start on Friday!
Message 33
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| Subject: | Avionics for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jimnolan@insightbb.com>
Listers,
After upgrading my panel, I have a few items for sale. I have a VAL 760 Com
radio that was removed last month that works great. I have a Bendix King KN53
w/GS that works great, looks new and was removed last month. I also have a Flybuddy
Loran that I bought from a guy, never seen it operate but it looks good.
All the radios come with trays and wires marked. The KN53 was hooked to a KI209A
head. The pinouts for the wiring hookup ought to be worth something.
If anyone needs one or all of these items, e-mail me off the list. Let me know
how much you want to give and I'll let you know if I'll part with it for that
much.
Thanks
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Message 34
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| Subject: | VULTURES formation inbound - FLAPJACK Squadron ESCORT call to |
arms!!! re: Fulton NY 9th RV forum
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
VULTURES be advised.....
OK were gonna try to meet up with you from Oswego Co. and local CNY group. We
figure HHHeck you can't have all the FUN!!!!! Damm it!
Flapjack 1 and 2 are mustering our ranks to see if we can meet with you at Branford
PA.... 8 to 8:30am Saturday Sept 13 AM.
KFZY, Oswego County Airport, Fulton NY, 9th annual RV forum again praying for VFR
will certianly be the RV highlight for builders, wanna be's and pilots.................
be there or be plain.....and without planes!!!
( Joseph Czachorowski feel free to email me to coordinate I am not sure I have
your email address right )
Regards
David McManmon
RV6 Flyer-Builder-Pilot N58DM
Call sign: Flapjack2
OH and President, EAA 486
Message 35
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| Subject: | Left over parts! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
AN4 approx 3" probably for the sticks where they attach to the
mixer and the holes have bushings in them. I have extra hardware too and
have had to buy some I did not get or lost.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmedema@att.net
Subject: RV-List: Left over parts!
--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net
I'm doing final assembly of my -6A after 11+ years of construction.
One thing I've noticed is that I have left over hardware. Part
of this may be from getting hardware for parts of the kit that I
didn't get such as the tip-up canopy and the tailwheel. In any case,
I seem to have a lot of drilled bolts and castellated nuts. The
question is: did I forget to put them someplace? Working from
memory, here are all the places I used drilled bolts/castellated
nuts:
Engine mount to fuselage
Rudder/brake pedals
Rudder cables to rudder
Main wing rear spar attach
Fuel tank to fuse mount (don't think this is in the plans though)
I'll do a thorough check of the plans, but I can't fathom where
all the drilled bolts should/could be used. They include various
lengths of both AN3 and AN4 bolts including two approximately
3 inch AN4 bolts.
Can anybody add to my list for a -6A with sliding canopy?
Thanks,
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM reserved, hope to do 1st engine start on Friday!
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: LRI/AOA, airspeed (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Gang this post will serve no purpose at all, but this thread has been
extremely useful.
Thanks
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 37
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|
vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, NorCal-rvlist@yahoogroups.com,
AZ_RVList@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | SoCAL RV RendezVous |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Want to give everyone an advance notice of the upcoming SoCAL RV RendezVous
on Saturday 1 November 2003 at Cable Airport (CCB,
http://www.cableairport.com) Upland, California.
Want to get the word out and have as many RVs show up as possible.
Any suggestions on FREE advertising is welcome off list. Posted message to
EAA and AOPA yesterday.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,349 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Ken and all,
thank you. I do agree an aural warning would be a nice feature, as would one
that produces various aural tones for various G levels during a loop etc.
But I disagree with the implied value discussion due to possible
inaccuracies from pressure types or fuselage types of AOA sensors. The whole
idea is to calibrate any of them such that the plane won't stall in any
flight condition while in the yellow or green. This doesn't require
spaceship orbital trajectory levels of sensitivity, all it needs is
repeatability. And just like any other installation within an aircraft each
installation needs to be thoroughly tested (and calibrated if needed) before
certifying for continued use in that aircraft. It also gives one a great
opportunity to go out and practice a whole lot of stalls. Although
manufacturers may produce simple calibration routines, one still needs to do
a full set of every kind of stall you can imagine to verify that it won't
drop in the yellow/green in your installation.
I currently have the D-10 high up on the panel, in the top middle of a
standard "six" layout and have found the AOA presentation fairly easy to
land my view on when going from inside to outside. Now that I'm used to it
making it bigger wouldn't improve its usefulness to me as its such a simple
display. And my eyes are definately on the engineer side of pocket
protector blind.
My thought would be for them to manufacture the Audio Unit as an add on
unit, with an in/out pass through connector for the PC data serial port, a
volume knob and one output lead over to the audio panel. Then make it
programmable for various types of in flight alerts such as, "Warning Will
Robinson - Why is the little screen all brown? Eject, Eject, But take me
with you..." That would be very useful and would allow the consumer to
develop their system modularly as well as make it easier for retro add ons.
(not sure if they are listening as they are probably busy catching up on
orders, so will bcc this their way as food for future disgestion)
W
do not archive
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
One of the posters herein answered me directly about a need I have for
the hose connecting the Governor Adapter to the front of the engine and
I've lost the email. I believe the first name was Mark. Will you please
contact me again?
Thanks, Marty in Brentwood TN
Do not Archive.
Message 40
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"'rv-list@matronics.com'"@matronics.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Dan and all,
thanks for the feed back,
What the event really brought home to me was "OK, I figured it out, I know
what's wrong, but I'm at the end of my training, now what do I do???" And I
suspect I'm not the only one who can say this about windshear. Its seems the
airline guys get good training on it though.
I have had several airline pilots responses that were very good, both agreed
that one should not change configuration or flight direction, just add
power. The thought seems to be maximize lift, doing anything other than full
power will reduce lift. Plus if one does hit, max power landing attitude is
not a bad choice for reducing impact damage. This is very contrary to what
my instincts were saying which was "Go into something bad, turn around ASAP
and get out."
Some of the precurser indications seem to be any high winds, T-cells,
virago, abnormal power settings on descent when atis says its calm on the
ground or anything else that indicates significant wind gradient across
altitude or locations such as GPS ground speed vs airspeed, compared to
several local ATIS/AWOS. Then if these exist carry more speed, and go around
early, for anything unusual. Also I do remember the Flight Guide having a
comment about this being possible at Santa Fe, and that may have put me in a
greater state of alert, but that dosen't change the fact that I really
didn't know what was the best reaction to implement once in it.
W
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan@rvproject.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wind shear
Sounds more like downdrafts rather than wind shear, although they're usually
closely related proximity-wise.
I think the only sane recommendation I can come up with is never to fly when
there are T-storms within 100nm.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
<Wheeler.North@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wind shear
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Folks,
>
> I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
> incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might
also
> be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
> recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
>
> In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it, know
> it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought of
> it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
> always very bad bad bad.
>
> But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
> black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not anything
> close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
>
> Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as
the
> wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then
on
> mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than it
> was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in
and
> it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
> apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to
not
> go zipping on by the rwy.
>
> I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
> recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail
flaps
> and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a
riptide,
> but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation. I
> also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
> such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
>
> This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was
not
> prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
> 180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel the
> change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was very
> illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed
through
> it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
>
> I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
> out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
>
> Post to me as well as the list as I'm would like to include y'all's
comments
> in an article for our local chapter newsletter.
>
> thx
> W
> wnorth@sdccd.net
>
>
Message 41
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
We tried to calibrate the AOA for stall break in HRII N561FS but had a
problem with the 30 degree up angle and full power, no flaps. Tom quit at
14,700 as we didn't have OXY. Little humor guys...8*). We did set the AOA
without pants/fairings using the gravity indication device. (ping ball ball)
and checked after they were installed. Stall speeds were lower in all
configurations so we reset AOA. Do Not Archive KABONG (GBA)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: AOA
>
Message 42
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--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Hi Folks
Looking for Mike Seager's email address.
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 43
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--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
Does anyone with a rv-4 know if passenger heat is needed or will one heat
regester in the front be enough to heat the entire cockpit ?
Joel Graber
Brooksville MS
finishing -4
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 44
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--> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
rv6cfi@vernonia.com
-Mike Kraus N223RV RV-4 and trained with Mike in Oregon!
Message 45
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--> RV-List message posted by: Charles Brame <charleyb@earthlink.net>
Sounds to me like you recognized a windshear/downdraft situation and did
the correct thing - you didn't hit the ground. Back in my airline pilot
days, we practiced unannounced windshears and downdrafts in the
simulator, and our procedure was much like what you did.
The first and trickiest part of the drill was situation recognition. A
windshear would usually be preceded by a large fluctuation in airspeed.
In most cases, the only perceived indication of a downdraft (microburst)
would be a rapidly increasing rate of descent. The worst case was a
large decrease in airspeed AND a rapidly increasing rate of descent.
During any approach, it was our company procedure for the non-flying
pilot to monitor the instruments and the VSI in particular. If the
vertical descent rate exceeded 1000'/minute a callout (rate of descent)
was required. If the rate of descent continued to increase, the callouts
became frequent, loud and urgent. In the case of a large windshear, the
callout was "WINDSHEAR" followed by the airspeed reading and a rate of
descent call if necessary. In either situation, the required action by
the flying pilot was to initiate a go-around, increase power to max, and
rotate the nose up to what ever angle was required to keep from hitting
the ground, dissipating airspeed in the process right down to stall
speed if necessary. During any go around in the MD-80 we went from full
flaps (40) to 15 flaps - little change in stall speed, but a great
reduction in drag. I'm not sure of the flaps procedure in other big
birds but suspect something similar.
Our windshear/downdraft drills in the sim usually began while on final approach,
configured for landing, at approach speed, and below 1000' AGL. We also
did them on take off at varying speeds and altitudes. Any
windshear/downdraft drill was a pass/fail exercise. Miss the ground, you
passed. Hit the ground, you failed. It was always exciting. I never saw
a serious windshear or downdraft situation in a real cockpit, but know
of several guys that did and lived to talk about it. Practice makes perfect.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
> Time: 11:27:14 PM PST US
> From: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
> Wheeler.North@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Wind shear
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Folks,
>
> I wanted to take a few moments to start a discussion about a wind shear
> incident that occured to me on the way to OSH this July. Cy, you might also
> be interested in this topic as a future article, although I wouldn't
> recommend using any of my drool as I really don't know much about it.
>
> In fact, that's the problem I had with it. I have always heard of it, know
> it can be horizontal or vertical or both, and have always kinda thought of
> it as a slamming kind of event that one easily gets made aware of and is
> always very bad bad bad.
>
> But it happened going into Santa Fe NM on rwy 02 I think it was. The big
> black things with sparkys underneath were around the area but not anything
> close to IMC. The wind was stright down the rwy at 15-20 kts.
>
> Basically on final the rwy picture was getting bigger in slow spurts as the
> wind gusted, but it was fairly stable and not to hard on the bumps, then on
> mid to short final the rwy pic just started getting flatter faster than it
> was getting bigger. I finally noticed that I had dialed all the power in and
> it was still getting flatter. So I started yanking flaps up when I
> apparently punched through the shear layer and it was all I could do to not
> go zipping on by the rwy.
>
> I now realize that I have had no real training in my repertoire on how to
> recognize this, how to get out of it, etc. My instincts were to bail flaps
> and turn towards lower ground/downwind, much like getting out of a riptide,
> but I now realize that this could have kept me in it, in this situation. I
> also was severely deluded in that it can occur very quickly but gradually
> such that you don't feel a vector change, like I had imagined.
>
> This might be a common thing for that runway, but I can assure you I was not
> prepared to suddenly be at full power in a climb attitude going down in a
> 180 hp fixed pitch RV close to the ground. The lack of ability to feel the
> change by anything other than a strangely changing runway picture was very
> illusive, and I now consider myself to be very lucky to have pushed through
> it having not recognized and turned out of it early on.
>
> I would love to hear anybody elses thoughts on what's the best way to get
> out of this, how to recognize it earlier etc.
>
> Post to me as well as the list as I'm would like to include y'all's comments
> in an article for our local chapter newsletter.
Message 46
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--> RV-List message posted by: "aronsond" <aronsond@pacbell.net>
Mike Seager
E-mail Address(es):
rv6cfi@hotmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert@execpc.com>
Subject: RV-List: Mike seager
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
>
> Hi Folks
>
> Looking for Mike Seager's email address.
>
> Gert
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
>
>
>
Message 47
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--> RV-List message posted by: Leland <Federigo@pacbell.net>
Speaking of wind shear and Dynons, one of the Salesmen for Blue Mountain
claims that their EFIS is superior to the Dynon unit because the Dynon
unit's AI depends on airspeed, and the Dynon unit can give a false
reading in wind shear. I wonder if this is just smoke or if there is
substance to the claim.
Leland in Pleasanton
Firewall forward in an RV9A
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics master relay |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/13/2003 9:15:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tim@bryantechnology.com writes:
> I got the scoop on this relay from the av tech that installed it. A lister
> gave me information enough to track him down. (Thank You)
>
> The interesting part is the relay is an NC relay. When it is powered up via
> the Master relay it closes and prevents power from flowing to the av bus and
> then when the avionics master switch is turned on the relay is unpowered to
> power up the av bus. I have tested this to be true and was told it was to
> eliminate the relay from getting hot. ( must not be continuous duty)
>
> Questions:
> 1 - Does this eliminate the need for a diode?
This is an odd arrangement IMO, but it will work. If the relay is NC as you
say, then when you turn ON your Avionics Master switch, you actually are
opening the circuit to the primary coil, the coil flux field collapses and the
arcing occurs at your switch contacts as they spread. Ergo, you need a diode to
protect your switch. With a more normal relay arrangement, this arcing occurs
as you turn OFF the Master switch.
> 2 - Is there a split second when the master relay comes on and power goes
> to
> the av bus
> before the av relay shuts it down?
Yes, but its duration is only a fraction of a second.
> 3 - Is there any reason for this to be different?
Not if you don't mind being odd.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 642hrs)
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics master relay |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/13/2003 9:15:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tim@bryantechnology.com writes:
> I got the scoop on this relay from the av tech that installed it. A lister
> gave me information enough to track him down. (Thank You)
>
> The interesting part is the relay is an NC relay. When it is powered up via
> the Master relay it closes and prevents power from flowing to the av bus and
> then when the avionics master switch is turned on the relay is unpowered to
> power up the av bus. I have tested this to be true and was told it was to
> eliminate the relay from getting hot. ( must not be continuous duty)
>
> Questions:
> 1 - Does this eliminate the need for a diode?
This is an odd arrangement IMO, but it will work. If the relay is NC as you
say, then when you turn ON your Avionics Master switch, you actually are
opening the circuit to the primary coil, the coil flux field collapses and the
arcing occurs at your switch contacts as they spread. Ergo, you need a diode to
protect your switch. With a more normal relay arrangement, this arcing occurs
as you turn OFF the Master switch.
> 2 - Is there a split second when the master relay comes on and power goes
> to
> the av bus
> before the av relay shuts it down?
Yes, but its duration is only a fraction of a second.
> 3 - Is there any reason for this to be different?
Not if you don't mind being odd.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 642hrs)
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