---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/02/03: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Re: Dutch Rolls (Kevin Horton) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Dutch Rolls (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: Warkne Props (Ron Calhoun) 4. 05:15 AM - Painting a QB (David Schaefer) 5. 05:30 AM - Microair Transponder Problem (N13eer@aol.com) 6. 06:04 AM - Re: Warkne Props (Finn Lassen) 7. 06:09 AM - Re: Warkne Props (Bill VonDane) 8. 06:15 AM - Re: Painting a QB (DWENSING@aol.com) 9. 06:20 AM - Re: Dutch Rolls (Sam Buchanan) 10. 06:51 AM - Re: Microair Transponder Problem (Cy Galley) 11. 08:36 AM - Re: Dutch Rolls (Robert E. Lynch) 12. 09:40 AM - RV-10 Order Info (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 13. 10:34 AM - Bendix KMD-150 (Crosley, Rich) 14. 10:52 AM - Re: Microair Transponder Problem (GMC) 15. 11:36 AM - Breather vent (smoothweasel@juno.com) 16. 11:50 AM - Re: Microair Transponder Problem (Brian Denk) 17. 12:23 PM - Re: Painting a QB (Phil Birkelbach) 18. 12:26 PM - Re: Breather vent (mstewart@qa.butler.com) 19. 05:49 PM - Re: Breather vent (Brian Blazey) 20. 06:17 PM - Re: CS props and Acro & Split S (David.vonLinsowe) 21. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: CS props and Acro & Split S (RV8ter@aol.com) 22. 07:04 PM - Re: Painting a QB (N67BT@aol.com) 23. 07:09 PM - Annual R V Fall Clasic fly in Sept 20 (John Mcmahon) 24. 08:31 PM - Re: [nonspam] Re: CS props and Acro & Split S (Larry Pardue) 25. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: CS props and Acro & Split S (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 26. 08:45 PM - Re: Pitot line (Bobby Hester) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:11 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: RE: RV-List: Dutch Rolls --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" > >>I've noticed a puzzling misuse of the term "dutch roll" over the last >>few years. Many gen-av pilots seem to use it to describe some sort >>of coordination maneuver involving rolling the aircraft back and >>forth........... > >Well, maybe not misused. Perhaps slang would be a better word. I first >learned about "Dutch rolls" in the early '70s when I was learning to >fly. It is a "banking without turning" and is a maneuver to teach >coordination. I do it every time I get in a new airplane to help get the >feel for what inputs do what. Silly? You bet. Works for me. The name >"Dutch roll" was just easier to say than "banking without turning or the >nose rising or falling" or "banking with the nose on a point". Correct? >No. Do most people know what you are referring to? Probably. Except >those swept wing jet jocks. I vote to keep it. > >Michael > And there is nothing wrong with slang, as long as all the people involved in the conversation know what it means. The problem comes when it is used outside of its home environment as then people don't know what the heck is being talked about. Anyway, I'm glad to finally know what people mean when they use Dutch roll in this way. To me it has always being a combined oscillatory rolling and yawing manoeuvre that the aircraft either did all by itself, or that I deliberately triggered in a flight test to see how quickly it damped out. And its not just swept wing jets that have a tendency to Dutch roll. The tail wagging motion in turbulence that people moan about in V-tail Bonanzas is Dutch roll. There is just a lot more yaw than roll in the Dutch roll in that aircraft. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:22 AM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dutch Rolls --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" It probably is not really slang. It probably is really two different meanings, depending on how it is talked about. I too, have heard and used both meanings since back in the early 60's. Phil Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:18 AM PST US From: "Ron Calhoun" Subject: RE: RV-List: Warkne Props --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" I would like to know some comparable prop makers if someone has gone through this before. When you get over a thousand dollars for a wood prop, might as well buy a metal prop. Thanks for the help. Ron Calhoun RV-4 Test flight soon --> RV-List message posted by: "R. Perry McConnell" Don't think there is one, anymore. The website which used to say only "coming soon" is now defunct (www.warnkeairproducts.com), and of the two numbers I found for them last fall, one had a recording that gave the other number, and leaving a message on the other ("Thank you for calling Warnke Air Products", etc.) resulted in no response whatsoever. Ron Calhoun wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" > >I have a friend looking for a Warkne wood prop. Yeller page phone number is >no good. Anyone know what their new number is? > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:03 AM PST US From: "David Schaefer" Subject: RV-List: Painting a QB --> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" I'm getting ready to paint the interior of my QB and wonder what folks are doing about cleaning the 'wash primer' that comes from the Philippians. There is a cosmolene (sp?)like residue that protected the aircraft during the ocean transit. How do you clean it off with out removing the primer. Can you then paint the base primer directly on-top of the wash primer? Your help will be appreciated. Regards, David Schaefer RV6A QB - Paint ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:43 AM PST US From: N13eer@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Microair Transponder Problem --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com Has anyone else had problems with there microair transponder? Every time I take off from my home airport (which is a class C) the tower reports my transponder is not reporting (no mode A or C). The transponder is showing replies the entire time. After about 10 minutes they say the transponder is on and everything is solid. I have moved and replaced the antenna and cable. I about to send the unit back for repair, unless someone has a suggestion. Thanks Alan Kritzman RV-8 N8EM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:28 AM PST US From: Finn Lassen Subject: Re: RV-List: Warkne Props --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen Didn't they move to Alaska? Check archives. Finn do not archive Gil Alexander wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander > > From the Tucson Qwest Yellow Pages (the business pages white section) > >Warnke Propellers >8405 N. Via Socorro >Tucson AZ 85653 > >520-884-8132 > > ...gil in Tucson > >At 10:01 PM 9/1/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" >> >>I have a friend looking for a Warkne wood prop. Yeller page phone number is >>no good. Anyone know what their new number is? >> >>Ron Calhoun >>RV-4 >> >> >> >> > >RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... >77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:39 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: Warkne Props --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" I have a Sterba: http://www.greatplainsas.com/ed.html I love the prop, nice performance envelope.. Ed is great to work with, and he offers free repitches for the life of the prop, but you probably wont need it... Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Calhoun" Subject: RE: RV-List: Warkne Props --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" I would like to know some comparable prop makers if someone has gone through this before. When you get over a thousand dollars for a wood prop, might as well buy a metal prop. Thanks for the help. Ron Calhoun RV-4 Test flight soon --> RV-List message posted by: "R. Perry McConnell" Don't think there is one, anymore. The website which used to say only "coming soon" is now defunct (www.warnkeairproducts.com), and of the two numbers I found for them last fall, one had a recording that gave the other number, and leaving a message on the other ("Thank you for calling Warnke Air Products", etc.) resulted in no response whatsoever. Ron Calhoun wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" > >I have a friend looking for a Warkne wood prop. Yeller page phone number is >no good. Anyone know what their new number is? > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:39 AM PST US From: DWENSING@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting a QB --> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com In a message dated 9/2/03 8:15:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dschaefer1@kc.rr.com writes: > I'm getting ready to paint the interior of my QB and wonder what folks > are doing about cleaning the 'wash primer' that comes from the > Philippines. There is a cosmolene (sp?)like residue that protected the > aircraft during the ocean transit. How do you clean it off without > removing the primer. Can you then paint the base primer directly on-top > of the wash primer? > > I wiped it down with mineral spirits then painted. Paint is holding well after four years. Dale Ensing RV6AQB ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:46 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Dutch Rolls --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Kevin Horton wrote: To me it has always being a combined oscillatory > rolling and yawing manoeuvre that the aircraft either did all by > itself, or that I deliberately triggered in a flight test to see how > quickly it damped out. And its not just swept wing jets that have a > tendency to Dutch roll. The tail wagging motion in turbulence that > people moan about in V-tail Bonanzas is Dutch roll. And those of us with the "classic, small tailed" RVs know about Dutch roll in turbulence as well, especially when using a wing leveler. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:58 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair Transponder Problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Sound like you need to turn it on at Start as it does take some time to warm up. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Microair Transponder Problem > --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com > > Has anyone else had problems with there microair transponder? Every time I take off from my home airport (which is a class C) the tower reports my transponder is not reporting (no mode A or C). The transponder is showing replies the entire time. After about 10 minutes they say the transponder is on and everything is solid. I have moved and replaced the antenna and cable. I about to send the unit back for repair, unless someone has a suggestion. > > Thanks > Alan Kritzman > RV-8 N8EM > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:45 AM PST US From: "Robert E. Lynch" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dutch Rolls --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert E. Lynch" Enough of the guessing what a Dutch roll is. I have been teaching future airplane drivers for about 39 years[dam am I that old]. The Dutch roll is a maneuver I use when I get a lazy rudder driver. It is simply holding the nose on a spot on the horizon a nd rocking the wings left and right without moving the nose off the spot. Try it , is a great tool to teach coordination. Just be careful you don't make some one barf. It is not as easy as it seems. Remember the nose cannot move off your spot. Robert E. Lynch RV Check Pilot 6507 Old Lohman Rd. Jefferson City, MO. 65109 573-893-2291 rv6lynch@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:29 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Order Info From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" I hadn't heard anything from Van's on my -10 order fax so I called this morning to check on it. Since I've seen a little bit of conflicting info about how many they're planning on I though I'd pass along what they said: - They're still getting over the initial demand shock - They've increased the initial order twice from 50 to 100 and then to 150 - They're still saying that they expect to start shipping emp kits in mid September - As of last week they had sold somewhere between 102 and 104 kits Good news is that based on the above, it appears that everybody that's placed an order so far will be getting it from the first batch. Anybody in the Omaha area willing to give a newbie an intro to building? Bob ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:56 AM PST US From: "Crosley, Rich" Subject: RV-List: Bendix KMD-150 --> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" If you're interested in the KMD-150 GPS, big screen, check out ebay, item # 2430675584 Rich Crosley RV-8 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:33 AM PST US From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: Microair Transponder Problem --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" Subject: RV-List: Microair Transponder Problem --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com Has anyone else had problems with there microair transponder? Every time I take off from my home airport (which is a class C) the tower reports my transponder is not reporting (no mode A or C). The transponder is showing replies the entire time. After about 10 minutes they say the transponder is on and everything is solid. I have moved and replaced the antenna and cable. I about to send the unit back for repair, unless someone has a suggestion. Thanks Alan Kritzman RV-8 N8EM ----------------------------------------- Hi Allen If we talking only the mode "C" altitude reply from the transponder my understanding is that the altitude encoder has a small heater inside which takes several minutes to come up to operating temperature. Prior to that there is no altitude output from the encoder to the transponder and hence to ATC. This is easy to see on transponders like my UPSAT SL-70 which shows the altitude output. Try turning the system "on" to standby immediately after starting the engine to give it time to warm up before departure. George McNutt Langley, B.C. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:01 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Breather vent From: smoothweasel@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com Does anyone have any advise on the choice of engine breather configurations. I am considering one of the following: 1 Running a line to the tail 2 using a separator tank and then venting at the bottom of the cowl 3 venting into the exhaust I like the idea of venting in the exhaust but won't it still cause a mess on the belly or will it be completely burned? The other options could be used but seem more complex. Also when plumbing the pitot tube to the airspeed, is it necessary to use AN line or is nylon sufficient? The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:34 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: Microair Transponder Problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >Has anyone else had problems with there microair transponder? Every time I >take off from my home airport (which is a class C) the tower reports my >transponder is not reporting (no mode A or C). The transponder is showing >replies the entire time. After about 10 minutes they say the transponder >is >on and everything is solid. I have moved and replaced the antenna and >cable. I about to send the unit back for repair, unless someone has a >suggestion. > >Thanks >Alan Kritzman >RV-8 N8EM Alan, Have you had the same trouble at any other Class C/B airport? Might be something unique to the area, and your installation. Also, I'm not completely sure about this but I think the indicator on the transponder is showing you that it is being interrogated by ATC, but not necessarily that you are returning anything. I would next try to get a code from the tower while on the ground and stationary and see if they pick anything up, then wait while you start timing on your watch. If it suddenly appears on their screens, you might indeed have a flakey transponder, or it just likes to warm up and stretch first before being put into service! I always power up my transponder after I energize the avionics master (after enigne start with stable bus voltage) and put it in standby mode so that it is up to operating temp before I actually need it. I know that my VAL Com radio likes to warm up a bit on cold winter days. I get a strange overtone in the headset for a few minutes during tansmit or receive until it has been on for a few minutes. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:03 PM PST US From: "Phil Birkelbach" Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting a QB --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" I primed my interior with the same stuff that Van's uses on the QB's and when I went to paint the interior I was told to scuff it up, clean it well and re-prime, but don't use another self-etching primer, something about the acid in the self-etching primer not being well recieved by the primer that is there. I scuffed with a scotchbrite pad and cleaned it up with some MEK. So far it seems to be sticking pretty well. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Schaefer" Subject: RV-List: Painting a QB > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" > > > I'm getting ready to paint the interior of my QB and wonder what folks > are doing about cleaning the 'wash primer' that comes from the > Philippians. There is a cosmolene (sp?)like residue that protected the > aircraft during the ocean transit. How do you clean it off with out > removing the primer. Can you then paint the base primer directly on-top > of the wash primer? > > Your help will be appreciated. > > Regards, > > David Schaefer > RV6A QB - Paint > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:50 PM PST US From: mstewart@qa.butler.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Breather vent tests=AWL,BAYES_01,NO_REAL_NAME,ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham version=2.53 --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com I think you will find venting to the exhaust works pretty well. Of course to the tail would be ideal if your gonna really mess it up. I would not bother adding the weight of a line to the tail. I run a smoke system and do a fair amount of acro and it seems that I have to give her a belly cleaning about every 50 hours. Its those long lines on the hammerheads that are the worst by far. I can mess up the belly on one flight of 10 hammerheads(my personal favorite RV maneuver) than a flight of dumping 5 gallons of smoke into the exhaust. My vent dumps right on top of the exhaust. Don't forget the whistle hole. Ask me how I know! Dumping on the exhaust gets most of it. But I think the airflow out of the cowl, rushing by the exhaust where it dumps, carries some to the belly. Perhaps an exhaust fitting is ideal to get it directly in there. My breather vent is cut to the shape of the exhaust with about 1/8th" clearance (was zero but heat burned it back). Still some gets on the belly. You can search the archives on the air/oil separator idea. Its been hashed out many times. I do not use one. Mike Stewart 6A, 1000+ hours do not archive -----Original Message----- From: smoothweasel@juno.com [mailto:smoothweasel@juno.com] Subject: RV-List: Breather vent --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com Does anyone have any advise on the choice of engine breather configurations. I am considering one of the following: 1 Running a line to the tail 2 using a separator tank and then venting at the bottom of the cowl 3 venting into the exhaust I like the idea of venting in the exhaust but won't it still cause a mess on the belly or will it be completely burned? The other options could be used but seem more complex. Also when plumbing the pitot tube to the airspeed, is it necessary to use AN line or is nylon sufficient? The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:17 PM PST US From: Brian Blazey Subject: Re: RV-List: Breather vent --> RV-List message posted by: Brian Blazey Plastic is used on many certificated aircraft and is fine. smoothweasel@juno.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com > > Does anyone have any advise on the choice of > engine breather configurations. I am considering one of the following: > 1 Running a line to the tail > 2 using a separator tank and then venting at the bottom of the cowl > 3 venting into the exhaust > > I like the idea of venting in the exhaust but won't it still cause a mess > on the belly or will it be completely burned? The other options could be > used but seem more complex. > > Also when plumbing the pitot tube to the airspeed, is it > necessary to use AN line or is nylon sufficient? > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:04 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: CS props and Acro & Split S From: "David.vonLinsowe" --> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" If you want maximum prop braking (as in speed braking) I would highly recommend MT's MTV-12-B/183-59, 3 bladed prop. Less gyroscopic forces due to much lighter blades than a Hartzell, aircraft acceleration from and standstill is noticeably more pronounced and it will glide like a Pitts! 1000' agl close in pattern, pull the power at the end of the runway and turn. After the 180 degree turn you will land on the numbers. I don't have the counterweighted version so I didn't get carried away with doing a lot of acro with it, no up and down line stuff. Ex-Pitts driver, relatively new RV pilot observations. RV's can be good "sport" or "gentleman" aerobatic airplanes. If flown within their limitations and you must understand that their limitations are narrower than an "aerobatic" airplane. My Pitts had a 40 mph spread between cruise and red line. My RV has 20 mph. You had to work at it to get the Pitts to red line, not just "oops". Flying wires, struts, two wings and a large diameter prop all add up to a lot of drag when you need it. Guys have had Pitts' to 9 g's and nothing broke or bent, I had mine to +7 -4.5. From the load pictures I've seen from Van's I think that RV's start to bend at 6 g's. And that's just the wing, who knows about the tail... I've done a lot of stuff with the Pitts, I won't even loop a RV without a g meter in it... I may be overly cautious, but I've seen enough model airplanes come apart in the air to know I don't want to be in one that does. Spins. The Pitts would come out of any spin (upright or inverted, accelerated or flat) with the Beggs emergency spin recovery technique, throttle closed, let go of the stick and opposite rudder (opposite rudder will be the heavy rudder, in some spins your first guess at which way you're rotating will be wrong). With a RV you're a real test pilot doing any of these. I don't know about the RV, but the Pitts would gently go into a real nice inverted flat spin at the top of a hammer if you were too far on your back and holding a little extra down elevator. The Pitts locked on and "grooved" (pattern flier term) better than the RV. I found it easier to fly the Pitts more accurately than the RV. My wife, a non pilot and sometimes autopilot, even commented how much easier it was to fly the Pitts straight and level than the RV. I do miss the hardcore acro the Pitts provided. I don't miss how long it took to strap it on, though it still seems a little strange to fly without a chute. And I don't miss thinking about what "if" and would my passenger get out too... I really enjoy the fact that you can tailor the RV to be what you want it to be (my Pitts was certified, no mods allowed and it could have used some). In my case with the RV, I'm scheming on how I'm going to make it faster through aerodynamic clean up. Acro can be the most fun you can have with your clothes on! It can also kill you and does kill every year. Treat it with respect that it deserves, especially with a RV because it's not as forgiving as a Pitts. One more observation. I call it "non-completion-itis" probably caused by first time acro sensory overload. What happens is, the maneuver doesn't get completed and the airplane ends up with the nose down and going fast. Even after demonstrating the maneuver and telling student not to do it, the nose isn't brought back to level after a loop or even more dangerous, the roll is stopped while still inverted and the nose is coming down! Most people figure out the partial loop pretty quick. The partial roll leaves no time for hesitation, push and finish the roll! Even in the Pitts you don't want to start a Split S at cruise speed. Just some thoughts having been on both sides of the fence, Dave RV-6 The need for (more) speed----> Traded acro for speed and distance. From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: RV-List: CS props and Acro --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com A "big time & famous" airshow pilot gave me some advice once when I was asking about RVs before I committted to buying one. He (OK, so it wasn't Patty) told me that even with a constant speed prop he didn't consider the RV a good acro plane because the props used on 320s/360s weren't effective enough in braking like his IO-540 size is and because Van really emphasised speed in the design (ie, RV is too clean). Not here to debate that but it does beg the question does anyone have enough acro time with and without a CS prop in a RV to say there's a usable safety margin on the downhill maneuvers using a CS prop? lucky ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:07 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: CS props and Acro & Split S --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Yep, but back to the main question, do you have a CS prop on your RV and have you compared that to a non-CS equipped RV in acro enough to see a noticeable difference in the *braking* department? In a message dated 9/2/2003 9:21:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com writes: > Subj: RV-List: Re: CS props and Acro &Split S > Date: 9/2/2003 9:21:36 PM Eastern Standard Time > From: David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com > Reply-to: rv-list@matronics.com > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent from the Internet > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" < > David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com> > > If you want maximum prop braking (as in speed braking) I would highly > recommend MT's MTV-12-B/183-59, 3 bladed prop. > > Less gyroscopic forces due to much lighter blades than a Hartzell, aircraft > acceleration from and standstill is noticeably more pronounced and it will > glide like a Pitts! 1000' agl close in pattern, pull the power at the end of > the runway and turn. After the 180 degree turn you will land on the numbers. > > I don't have the counterweighted version so I didn't get carried away with > doing a lot of acro with it, no up and down line stuff. > > Ex-Pitts driver, relatively new RV pilot observations. > > RV's can be good "sport" or "gentleman" aerobatic airplanes. If flown > within their limitations and you must understand that their limitations are > narrower than an "aerobatic" airplane. > > My Pitts had a 40 mph spread between cruise and red line. My RV has 20 mph. > You had to work at it to get the Pitts to red line, not just "oops". > Flying wires, struts, two wings and a large diameter prop all add up to a lot of > drag when you need it. > > Guys have had Pitts' to 9 g's and nothing broke or bent, I had mine to +7 > -4.5. From the load pictures I've seen from Van's I think that RV's start to > bend at 6 g's. And that's just the wing, who knows about the tail... > > I've done a lot of stuff with the Pitts, I won't even loop a RV without a g > meter in it... I may be overly cautious, but I've seen enough model > airplanes come apart in the air to know I don't want to be in one that does. > > Spins. The Pitts would come out of any spin (upright or inverted, > accelerated or flat) with the Beggs emergency spin recovery technique, throttle > closed, let go of the stick and opposite rudder (opposite rudder will be the heavy > rudder, in some spins your first guess at which way you're rotating will be > wrong). With a RV you're a real test pilot doing any of these. I don't know > about the RV, but the Pitts would gently go into a real nice inverted flat > spin at the top of a hammer if you were too far on your back and holding a > little extra down elevator. > > The Pitts locked on and "grooved" (pattern flier term) better than the RV. > I found it easier to fly the Pitts more accurately than the RV. My wife, a > non pilot and sometimes autopilot, even commented how much easier it was to > fly the Pitts straight and level than the RV. > > I do miss the hardcore acro the Pitts provided. I don't miss how long it > took to strap it on, though it still seems a little strange to fly without a > chute. And I don't miss thinking about what "if" and would my passenger get > out too... > > I really enjoy the fact that you can tailor the RV to be what you want it to > be (my Pitts was certified, no mods allowed and it could have used some). > In my case with the RV, I'm scheming on how I'm going to make it faster > through aerodynamic clean up. > > Acro can be the most fun you can have with your clothes on! It can also > kill you and does kill every year. Treat it with respect that it deserves, > especially with a RV because it's not as forgiving as a Pitts. > > One more observation. I call it "non-completion-itis" probably caused by > first time acro sensory overload. What happens is, the maneuver doesn't get > completed and the airplane ends up with the nose down and going fast. Even > after demonstrating the maneuver and telling student not to do it, the nose > isn't brought back to level after a loop or even more dangerous, the roll is > stopped while still inverted and the nose is coming down! Most people figure out > the partial loop pretty quick. The partial roll leaves no time for > hesitation, push and finish the roll! Even in the Pitts you don't want to start a > Split S at cruise speed. > > Just some thoughts having been on both sides of the fence, > > Dave > RV-6 > The need for (more) speed----> > Traded acro for speed and distance. > > From: RV8ter@aol.com > Subject: RV-List: CS props and Acro > > --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > A "big time &famous" airshow pilot gave me some advice once when I was > asking about RVs before I committted to buying one. He (OK, so it wasn't > Patty) > > told me that even with a constant speed prop he didn't consider the RV a > good > acro plane because the props used on 320s/360s weren't effective enough in > braking like his IO-540 size is and because Van really emphasised speed in > the > > design (ie, RV is too clean). Not here to debate that but it does beg the > question does anyone have enough acro time with and without a CS prop in a > RV to > say > there's a usable safety margin on the downhill maneuvers using a CS prop? > > lucky > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:04 PM PST US From: N67BT@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting a QB --> RV-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com I used a wax/grease remover which does not affect the wash primer that Van's uses then epoxy primer over that. A call to Van's confirmed that almost anything can be used over the wash primer but as someone just suggested I would not use an etch primer. Probably because the acid may not even make it to the metal. If still possible, take the fuselage to a car wash and blast off all that gunk. Bob Trumpfheller Building a RV7A QB in western Colorado > There is a cosmolene (sp?)like residue that protected the > aircraft during the ocean transit. How do you clean it off with out > removing the primer. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:45 PM PST US From: John Mcmahon Subject: RV-List: Annual R V Fall Clasic fly in Sept 20 --> RV-List message posted by: John Mcmahon To those of you that are building and flying R V's, Lebanon Chapter 863 of the EAA is having our annual fall classic fly-in Sept 20th (SAT)...There will be judging and award plaques sent out to the winners. We are also having a Fly-mart and reduced fuel prices..Mike S will be there again this year. Our location is Lebanon,Tn (M54) about 20 miles east of Nashville,Tn If anyone is in need of additional info, feel free to call me.. John McMahon ( RV6 near ready to paint) Weeee 615-452-8742 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:17 PM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: [nonspam] RV-List: Re: CS props and Acro & Split S --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" > --> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" > snip > > Guys have had Pitts' to 9 g's and nothing broke or bent, I had mine to +7 -4.5. From the load pictures I've seen from Van's I think that RV's start to bend at 6 g's. And that's just the wing, who knows about the tail... > This is a good post but I do not agree about the 6 g's. RV's start to bend at far less than 6 g's but do not permanently deform until a far higher loading than that. My RV has been to 6 g's plus a little and I can testify there is no permanent deformation. Bending, sure, probably at 1 g! Ever watched the bending on an ASW-20 sailplane at 1 g, awesome! I think around 9+ g's, where I have not been, is where some permanent deformation might occur. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:36 PM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: CS props and Acro & Split S --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com In a message dated 09/02/2003 6:42:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RV8ter@aol.com writes: > Yep, but back to the main question, do you have a CS prop on your RV and > have > you compared that to a non-CS equipped RV in acro enough to see a noticeable > > difference in the *braking* department? > The comments on the MTV CS propeller were valid. Great air brake, when you want it. Jim Ayers RV-3 sn N47RV Flown with Warnke fixed pitch prop, Ivoprop electric in-flight adjustable prop, and MTV-7-C/L175-112 electric CS 3 blade propeller ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:40 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot line --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester Ken Simmons wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > >Next question on the pitot. The plans aren't real clear about installing the pitot line in the wing. It just pretty much says do it. The only thing in the drawing I found was the actual pitot itself, not the route back to the fuselage. > >The question is what to do with the inboard end of the pitot line? I know many use plastic tubing to the pitot and I still may do that for part of the run to the instruments. The best solution I've seen is the way Dan Checkoway terminated his pitot line with a bulkhead fitting on the inboard rib. Any other ideas? > >Thanks. > >Ken > > Here is how I did mine: http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/FuseAssyPg2.htm I'll go to plastic inside the fuselage. -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)