Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:00 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? (Kevin Horton)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Wayne R. Couture)
3. 05:58 AM - R V Fly-in Fall Classic (M54) (John Mcmahon)
4. 07:02 AM - F-1 Rocket Quickbuild for sale (Nate)
5. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Tim Lewis)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: Adding lead to elevator counterweights after painting?? (Larry Bowen)
7. 07:34 AM - Lycoming Alternator Update (Ronnie Brown)
8. 08:13 AM - Re: F-1 Rocket Quickbuild for sale (Cy Galley)
9. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? (Charlie & Tupper England)
10. 09:29 AM - Re: Adding lead to elevator counterweights after painting?? (Elsa & Henry)
11. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ed Holyoke)
12. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ed Holyoke)
13. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ed Holyoke)
14. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ed Holyoke)
15. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Bruce Gray)
16. 10:19 AM - Re: Lycoming Alternator Update (Jim Streit)
17. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ed Holyoke)
18. 01:32 PM - Re: Phone Jack Fiber Washers (Kevin Horton)
19. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? (Kevin Horton)
20. 02:42 PM - Installation Requirements (Jim Nolan)
21. 05:56 PM - RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery methods (Charlie & Tupper England)
22. 06:28 PM - Re: RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery methods (Patrick Kelley)
23. 06:35 PM - Re: Adding lead to elevator counterweights after painting?? (LarryRobertHelming)
24. 07:08 PM - More Dynon IFR (Doug Rozendaal)
25. 07:29 PM - Re: Installation Requirements (Stanley Blanton)
26. 08:25 PM - Re: Phone Jack Fiber Washers (flmike)
27. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ken Stribling)
28. 09:06 PM - Primer performance & edge finishing - Yes I checked the archives & not trying to start a primer war (Brett Morawski)
29. 09:52 PM - Re: Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux (very long) (Ed Holyoke)
30. 10:01 PM - Re: RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery methods ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? |
Redux (very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
I'm grasping at straws here, but I'm wondering if it could be vapour
lock. The description makes it sound as if the problem happens after
you do a fuel stop, which is consistent with vapour lock. The time
on the ground allows the fuel system components ahead of the firewall
to become heat soaked. The problem would be more likely with high
ground temperatures and higher cruise altitudes. Different batches
of fuel could have slightly different vapour pressures, so you might
see the problem with fuel from some airports and not others.
But, I've never heard that C-150s had a problem with vapour lock. I
would have thought that the typical trainer use would have been lots
of trips with short stops in between, which should bring a vapour
lock problem to the fore if it was there. So, that leads me to ask
if there is anything different or amiss in the fuel system ahead of
the firewall. Different fuel line routing. Reduced clearances
between fuel system components and exhaust. Some component that is
deteriorating and should be replaced, etc.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton
At 19:50 -0700 13/9/03, Ed Holyoke wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
>On June 30 I posted to the SoCal RV-list list about a problem my C-150
>had with suspected carb ice. I've reposted it below for reference. Sorry
>about the long post. I'm still having problems with it and am looking
>for ideas.
>
>First what we did after the other incident:
>
>1. Pulled carb airbox and inspected it. Showed it to a couple of
>AI's. decided it was serviceable.
>2. Pulled carburetor and sent it to airmotive. They reported that
>the float would slowly rise indicating a problem with needle and seat.
>Observed "witness mark" on seat but could not locate any debris. Screen
>was clear. Installed new needle and seat and flow tested. Returned with
>yellow tag.
>3. Drained fuel tanks through carb feed hose. Fuel flowed just fine
>with no hiccups until tanks were empty (about 17 gals).
>4. Removed fuel on/off valve. Replaced o-ring and lubed valve with
>fuel lube and reinstalled.
>5. Removed engine primer valve. Cleaned and replaced o-rings.
>Checked that it pumps fuel by removing line to intake manifold and
>operating primer.
>6. Replaced fuel cap gaskets and checked that underwing fuel vent
>was unblocked by blowing through it until the tank creaked and listening
>to the air coming back out the vent tube.
>7. Installed "iceman" carb ice detector. It has an led and
>photocell on a probe in the carb throat and lights a light on the panel
>and an audible alarm when the photocell picks up less light.
>8. Had it blessed and returned to service by an AI.
>
>Two test flights totaling about an hour and a half showed nothing wrong
>and if anything, running better than before.
>
>Today I loaded it up and headed out to Oceano. Stopped for 80 octane at
>SZP and continued. Over Lake Cachuma and at 6500 ft I noticed some
>roughness and about 50 rpm drop. The carb ice detector was not sounding
>(and it's not shy- it's gone off several times during runup and power
>reductions). I pulled carb heat anyway and went full throttle. The rpm
>degraded some more and then seemed to recover slightly then dropped to
>1500 and immediately came back up to about 2500. It them proceeded to
>cycle back and forth between 2500 and 1500 continuously. I experimented
>with throttle, carb heat and mixture and was unable to find a sweet spot
>where it would run normally. The mixture control did have an effect on
>rpm as did the carb heat. If I pulled the throttle back to about 1600,
>it seemed to run OK, but more throttle put it back in cycling mode. By
>this time I was over Santa Ynez at about 4000' and, low and behold it
>seemed to run fine at any throttle setting. I landed.
>
>Unable to locate and A&P and after some more unsuccessful attempts to
>diagnose the problem, including blowing compressed air through the
>underwing vent tube with one fuel cap off at a time, I decided to run it
>up and try it out over the airport. I climbed to 7500' in the vicinity
>of the airport and then turned east still climbing at minimum speed to
>11,500' and flew it back to WHP while talking to SoCal. It flew just
>fine the whole way. I did get a carb ice alarm twice while descending,
>but it cleared up instantly with carb heat.
>
>I'm at a loss. Does anybody have any ideas about what to do next? The
>plan is to sell the Cessna when the RV's about ready and my nephew, Mark
>intends to buy a tail kit at that point with his half of the proceeds.
>We can't, in good conscience, sell it without solving this problem
>though.
>
>Ed Holyoke
>6 QB (very slow)
>I've finished my wings and now it's back to the canopy. I've promised
>myself an engine when I finish that.
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ed Holyoke [mailto:bicyclop@pacbell.net]
>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:15 PM
>> To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas?
> >
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> On Saturday I flew down to Compton in my C-150 to pick up some
>antennas
>> from Bob Archer. I filled up with 80 octane there. On the way back,
>> having passed through the VFR corridor at 4500' and just about to fly
>> around the west end of the Burbank class C back to WHP, I noticed the
>> engine losing some rpm and beginning to run rough. I went full rich
>and
>> full carb heat. The rpm dropped some more and then seemed to recover
>> slightly and then lost power completely. About 20 seconds later I got
>a
>> shot of power for about 2 seconds. It went through several cycles of
>> these brief power surges followed by quiet while I decided which was
>> closer - SMO or VNY. Santa Monica won out by about a mile and a half
>and
>> I turned back. As I was dialing up the tower frequency, it quit
>surging
>> and just died. So I called in saying I was 5 north with engine out
>> emergency. Tower cleared me to land any runway, say type and how many
>> aboard. I was alone and down to about 4000'. They called back and
>wanted
>> me to ident and say fuel level. I acknowledged the ident and said full
>> tanks. I noticed that the sidetone sounded funny on that transmission
>> and when I looked to the gps for guidance to the airport it was
>> rebooting. Just what I need - electrical problems. During my spare
>time
>> I was playing with the engine controls with no joy. They asked me to
>> ident again and I told them that it appeared that I had an electrical
>> problem as well as the engine failure and if they didn't hear from me
>> again, I'm still coming. The gps finished rebooting and acquired
>> satellites and rebooted again right as it was about to tell me where
>the
>> airport was. OK, so I'll have to find the airport the old fashioned
>way
>> - except I couldn't see through all those puffy little clouds
>scattered
>> around where I thought it should be. Tower wanted to talk about
>> something and I said "I'm at about 2000' and I'm not even real sure
>> where the airport is." They came back cleared to land any runway. Then
>I
>> spotted it peeking through the clouds at 11 O'clock and about a mile.
>I
>> announced airport in sight and said I'd make left downwind for runway
>> 25. They said transmission garbled but at this point I didn't care if
>> they could heard me or not or whether or not I had any battery left at
>> all. I announced left downwind for 21 (I heard them telling somebody
>> else to make right traffic for 21) and they called me in sight.
>Somebody
>> else, inbound from the Sepulveda pass was asking tower if the airport
>> was likely to close because he was short on fuel. Then while on
>downwind
>> my engine surged once more and then started running like nothing had
>> ever happened. I let it run for a few seconds and it seemed like a
>real
>> shame to pull throttle for landing. I made as nice a landing as I have
>> in quite a while and taxied to transient normally. The alternator
>> breaker had blown and I reset it successfully before shutdown. Too bad
>I
>> didn't have the presence of mind to do that when I needed the gps!
> >
>> After telling the fire department thanks for coming but I'm not on
>fire
>> and talking to the nice policeman for a few minutes, I started trying
>to
>> figure out what happened. I tapped fuel from both tanks and the
>> gascolator and the fuselage sump. All samples looked completely
>normal.
>> No water, no debris. I was unable to locate any A&P's but I did find a
>> guy tying down his long eze who let me use some tools. I looked in the
>> gascolator without finding anything. I pulled some bottom plugs. None
>> were fouled. I pulled the scat tube and inspected the carb heat box. I
>> had somebody operate the control and verified both full hot and full
>> cold positions. Air filter clean and about two months old. The general
>> consensus on the ramp was carb ice. Unable to find anything obviously
>> wrong, I re-cowled and did a thorough runup at 1700rpm and full
>> throttle. Mags checked OK, carb heat about 75 rpm drop - nominal.
>Taxied
>> up to the runway and while waiting it seemed that it was running rough
>> at 1000rpm so I turned around and ran it up again. Everything seemed
> > fine so I asked for permission to climb over the airport. They gave me
>> permission to climb just north of the field after I stated that I
>> thought that the problem had been carb ice. At about 3500', I said
>> thanks and so long and turned for home. I don't know if it was jitters
>> or what, but it didn't seem to quite make full rpm once I had leveled
>> off and I was too spooked to lean it out. I hit the carb heat several
>> times on the way home just to be sure that it didn't ice again.
>>
>> Carb ice is a convenient diagnosis, but I'm freaked out by the way it
>> surged to full power and back to nothing and then died only to return
>to
>> (apparently) full power after several minutes of gliding. In
>retrospect,
>> full rich doesn't sound like a great idea along with full carb heat,
>but
>> I don't know, would that make it act like that? It's had these
>symptoms
>> on two other occasions, although not as bad. Today I talked to a
>couple
>> of A&P's about it. One said that it sounded like carb ice to him. The
>> other said to pull the carb and get it yellow tagged at Airmotive. I
>> believe that it has the metal float and metal needle and one piece
>> venturi but I haven't verified all of that yet.
>>
>> Any ideas out there?
>>
>> Glad to be alive,
>>
>> Ed Holyoke
> > 6 qb (slow)
>>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
I'm no expert either, but could it be a clogged vent on the fuel tank cap?
I understand that the right tank cap only has a vent on it and it could be
clogged.
Wayne
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux
(very long)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
> On June 30 I posted to the SoCal RV-list list about a problem my C-150
> had with suspected carb ice. I've reposted it below for reference. Sorry
> about the long post. I'm still having problems with it and am looking
> for ideas.
>
> First what we did after the other incident:
>
> 1. Pulled carb airbox and inspected it. Showed it to a couple of
> AI's. decided it was serviceable.
> 2. Pulled carburetor and sent it to airmotive. They reported that
> the float would slowly rise indicating a problem with needle and seat.
> Observed "witness mark" on seat but could not locate any debris. Screen
> was clear. Installed new needle and seat and flow tested. Returned with
> yellow tag.
> 3. Drained fuel tanks through carb feed hose. Fuel flowed just fine
> with no hiccups until tanks were empty (about 17 gals).
> 4. Removed fuel on/off valve. Replaced o-ring and lubed valve with
> fuel lube and reinstalled.
> 5. Removed engine primer valve. Cleaned and replaced o-rings.
> Checked that it pumps fuel by removing line to intake manifold and
> operating primer.
> 6. Replaced fuel cap gaskets and checked that underwing fuel vent
> was unblocked by blowing through it until the tank creaked and listening
> to the air coming back out the vent tube.
> 7. Installed "iceman" carb ice detector. It has an led and
> photocell on a probe in the carb throat and lights a light on the panel
> and an audible alarm when the photocell picks up less light.
> 8. Had it blessed and returned to service by an AI.
>
> Two test flights totaling about an hour and a half showed nothing wrong
> and if anything, running better than before.
>
> Today I loaded it up and headed out to Oceano. Stopped for 80 octane at
> SZP and continued. Over Lake Cachuma and at 6500 ft I noticed some
> roughness and about 50 rpm drop. The carb ice detector was not sounding
> (and it's not shy- it's gone off several times during runup and power
> reductions). I pulled carb heat anyway and went full throttle. The rpm
> degraded some more and then seemed to recover slightly then dropped to
> 1500 and immediately came back up to about 2500. It them proceeded to
> cycle back and forth between 2500 and 1500 continuously. I experimented
> with throttle, carb heat and mixture and was unable to find a sweet spot
> where it would run normally. The mixture control did have an effect on
> rpm as did the carb heat. If I pulled the throttle back to about 1600,
> it seemed to run OK, but more throttle put it back in cycling mode. By
> this time I was over Santa Ynez at about 4000' and, low and behold it
> seemed to run fine at any throttle setting. I landed.
>
> Unable to locate and A&P and after some more unsuccessful attempts to
> diagnose the problem, including blowing compressed air through the
> underwing vent tube with one fuel cap off at a time, I decided to run it
> up and try it out over the airport. I climbed to 7500' in the vicinity
> of the airport and then turned east still climbing at minimum speed to
> 11,500' and flew it back to WHP while talking to SoCal. It flew just
> fine the whole way. I did get a carb ice alarm twice while descending,
> but it cleared up instantly with carb heat.
>
> I'm at a loss. Does anybody have any ideas about what to do next? The
> plan is to sell the Cessna when the RV's about ready and my nephew, Mark
> intends to buy a tail kit at that point with his half of the proceeds.
> We can't, in good conscience, sell it without solving this problem
> though.
>
> Ed Holyoke
> 6 QB (very slow)
> I've finished my wings and now it's back to the canopy. I've promised
> myself an engine when I finish that.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ed Holyoke [mailto:bicyclop@pacbell.net]
> > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:15 PM
> > To: SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas?
> >
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > On Saturday I flew down to Compton in my C-150 to pick up some
> antennas
> > from Bob Archer. I filled up with 80 octane there. On the way back,
> > having passed through the VFR corridor at 4500' and just about to fly
> > around the west end of the Burbank class C back to WHP, I noticed the
> > engine losing some rpm and beginning to run rough. I went full rich
> and
> > full carb heat. The rpm dropped some more and then seemed to recover
> > slightly and then lost power completely. About 20 seconds later I got
> a
> > shot of power for about 2 seconds. It went through several cycles of
> > these brief power surges followed by quiet while I decided which was
> > closer - SMO or VNY. Santa Monica won out by about a mile and a half
> and
> > I turned back. As I was dialing up the tower frequency, it quit
> surging
> > and just died. So I called in saying I was 5 north with engine out
> > emergency. Tower cleared me to land any runway, say type and how many
> > aboard. I was alone and down to about 4000'. They called back and
> wanted
> > me to ident and say fuel level. I acknowledged the ident and said full
> > tanks. I noticed that the sidetone sounded funny on that transmission
> > and when I looked to the gps for guidance to the airport it was
> > rebooting. Just what I need - electrical problems. During my spare
> time
> > I was playing with the engine controls with no joy. They asked me to
> > ident again and I told them that it appeared that I had an electrical
> > problem as well as the engine failure and if they didn't hear from me
> > again, I'm still coming. The gps finished rebooting and acquired
> > satellites and rebooted again right as it was about to tell me where
> the
> > airport was. OK, so I'll have to find the airport the old fashioned
> way
> > - except I couldn't see through all those puffy little clouds
> scattered
> > around where I thought it should be. Tower wanted to talk about
> > something and I said "I'm at about 2000' and I'm not even real sure
> > where the airport is." They came back cleared to land any runway. Then
> I
> > spotted it peeking through the clouds at 11 O'clock and about a mile.
> I
> > announced airport in sight and said I'd make left downwind for runway
> > 25. They said transmission garbled but at this point I didn't care if
> > they could heard me or not or whether or not I had any battery left at
> > all. I announced left downwind for 21 (I heard them telling somebody
> > else to make right traffic for 21) and they called me in sight.
> Somebody
> > else, inbound from the Sepulveda pass was asking tower if the airport
> > was likely to close because he was short on fuel. Then while on
> downwind
> > my engine surged once more and then started running like nothing had
> > ever happened. I let it run for a few seconds and it seemed like a
> real
> > shame to pull throttle for landing. I made as nice a landing as I have
> > in quite a while and taxied to transient normally. The alternator
> > breaker had blown and I reset it successfully before shutdown. Too bad
> I
> > didn't have the presence of mind to do that when I needed the gps!
> >
> > After telling the fire department thanks for coming but I'm not on
> fire
> > and talking to the nice policeman for a few minutes, I started trying
> to
> > figure out what happened. I tapped fuel from both tanks and the
> > gascolator and the fuselage sump. All samples looked completely
> normal.
> > No water, no debris. I was unable to locate any A&P's but I did find a
> > guy tying down his long eze who let me use some tools. I looked in the
> > gascolator without finding anything. I pulled some bottom plugs. None
> > were fouled. I pulled the scat tube and inspected the carb heat box. I
> > had somebody operate the control and verified both full hot and full
> > cold positions. Air filter clean and about two months old. The general
> > consensus on the ramp was carb ice. Unable to find anything obviously
> > wrong, I re-cowled and did a thorough runup at 1700rpm and full
> > throttle. Mags checked OK, carb heat about 75 rpm drop - nominal.
> Taxied
> > up to the runway and while waiting it seemed that it was running rough
> > at 1000rpm so I turned around and ran it up again. Everything seemed
> > fine so I asked for permission to climb over the airport. They gave me
> > permission to climb just north of the field after I stated that I
> > thought that the problem had been carb ice. At about 3500', I said
> > thanks and so long and turned for home. I don't know if it was jitters
> > or what, but it didn't seem to quite make full rpm once I had leveled
> > off and I was too spooked to lean it out. I hit the carb heat several
> > times on the way home just to be sure that it didn't ice again.
> >
> > Carb ice is a convenient diagnosis, but I'm freaked out by the way it
> > surged to full power and back to nothing and then died only to return
> to
> > (apparently) full power after several minutes of gliding. In
> retrospect,
> > full rich doesn't sound like a great idea along with full carb heat,
> but
> > I don't know, would that make it act like that? It's had these
> symptoms
> > on two other occasions, although not as bad. Today I talked to a
> couple
> > of A&P's about it. One said that it sounded like carb ice to him. The
> > other said to pull the carb and get it yellow tagged at Airmotive. I
> > believe that it has the metal float and metal needle and one piece
> > venturi but I haven't verified all of that yet.
> >
> > Any ideas out there?
> >
> > Glad to be alive,
> >
> > Ed Holyoke
> > 6 qb (slow)
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | R V Fly-in Fall Classic (M54) |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Mcmahon <rv6@earthlink.net>
Just to remind all this upcoming week-end
the Fall Classic R V fly-in near Nashville,Tn (M54)
at Lebanon,Tn 20 miles east of Nashville.......
There will be a fly Mart this year..Y'all come
John McMahon 615-452-8742
R V6 Paint near future
Message 4
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| Subject: | F-1 Rocket Quickbuild for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Nate" <nateaf@earthlink.net>
Interested in a RV-4 or RV-8? The F-1 Rocket is another tandem 2-seater but with a lot more performance. I am selling kit #111 with the tailkit for $31,500. There is no work done so there should be no problem with the 51% rule. If you would like more information on the F-1, visit http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/.
Contact info: E-mail nateaf@hotmail.com
Phone: 310-416-1686
Location: Los Angeles
Nate Elliott
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@earthlink.net>
Grasping at straws:
- How about looking for an induction system leak? (crack/hole in the
rubber hoses that join induction system components; loose screws/bolts
holding the carb to the engine).
- How about dirty/clogged/defective air filter?
Tim******
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
Message 6
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| Subject: | Adding lead to elevator counterweights after painting?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
I think in the olden days, before Van sold the pre-formed wieghts,
people would mix lead shot in epoxy and pour it in place. Maybe you
could try that....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>
> Only problem with that is that if one of those baby's comes
> loose it can
> jam your elevator. They should be permanently attached.
>
> Dave -6 flying CPM, EAA Tech Counselor
>
> Jack Lockamy wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
> >
> >Why not go to your local tire store and pick up some of the
> 'stick-on
> >lead weights' which are used on the inside of mag wheels for
> balancing?
> >They come in various weights, they're small, hold well, and so cheap
> >the tire store operator may just give you a handful FREE....
> >
> >I've used them successfully on other aircraft for balancing control
> >surfaces.
> >
> >Jack Lockamy
> >Camarillo, CA
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Lycoming Alternator Update |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
I found and fixed my alternator problem. There was a broken wire between the field
slip ring and the field winding. I added a U shaped piece of wire to reach
beyond the broken end of the field wire and soldered it back together. It
worked fine for one hour yesterday.
Here's what I found out while researching this problem:
My alternator is made by Hitachi and used on 81-87 Mazda (probably not RX-7's)
per NAPA parts manual and does not have an internal voltage regulator. I have
a VR-600 solid state regulator mounted on the firewall. Don George built my Lycoming
IO360C1C and says he obtained my alternator from AirTec at 1-800-366-4746.
They supply non- certified alternators for the homebuilt crowd.
Also, someone says the Velocity factory sells an internally regulated alternator
for $200
I also got an email from <Mahlon_Russell@teledyne.com>
| Hi Ronnie,
| I think the actual P/N of the alternator you may have is a Mitsubishi
| 186-0355 or 14700. It may help in your quest for brushes! If you need a
| replacement we sell the complete set up: belt, alt. mounts brackets and
| hardware for $245.00. I agree expensive by automotive standards!
| Good Luck,
| Mahlon
|
Mahlon also sent the following:
| Hi Ronnie,
| It depends on where your engine came from or what application you are
| trying to mimic.
| Pipers used Mopar and Prestolite on O-320's
| Cessna used Ford on O-320's
| Beech used Ford and Prestolite on O-320's
| Can't remember what Bellanca and some of the others used but basically they
| all used some version of Ford, Prestolite or Mopar. To further complicate
| things the mounting brackets and ring gear support assemblies were
| different for each of the installations. IE belt that fit a ford alt.
| pulley doesn't fit a MOPAR flywheel and same thing for the mounting
| brackets. You really need to know what brackets and what flywheel you have
| to make the correct determination of what's the right Alternator. If you
| let me know what you have I will try to check it out for you On Monday when
| I am back in the shop. If you are totally confused feel free to call me at
| 1-800-624-6680 ext 305 and maybe I can better explain verbally.
| Anyway I hope this helps,
| Mahlon Russell
|
Time: 12:37:48 PM PST US
From: "Jim and Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
Subject: RV-List: Alternator
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim and Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
The Pelican alternator sold by ACS is off of a Chevy Sprint
Spectrum. It is a small 65 amp alternator that is self regulating and has automatic
overheat protection that resets when an overheated condition is resolved.
I have one and it works well.
Jim Cone
Another post from kr shultz" <sfg0152002@yahoo.com
Think it is a Suzuki Samurai 1995 to 2001
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: F-1 Rocket Quickbuild for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Work done has NO bearing on 51% rule... NONE!
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nate" <nateaf@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: F-1 Rocket Quickbuild for sale
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Nate" <nateaf@earthlink.net>
>
> Interested in a RV-4 or RV-8? The F-1 Rocket is another tandem 2-seater
but with a lot more performance. I am selling kit #111 with the tailkit for
$31,500. There is no work done so there should be no problem with the 51%
rule. If you would like more information on the F-1, visit
http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/.
>
> Contact info: E-mail nateaf@hotmail.com
> Phone: 310-416-1686
> Location: Los Angeles
>
> Nate Elliott
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? |
Redux (very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Tim Lewis wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@earthlink.net>
>
>Grasping at straws:
>- How about looking for an induction system leak? (crack/hole in the
>rubber hoses that join induction system components; loose screws/bolts
>holding the carb to the engine).
>- How about dirty/clogged/defective air filter?
>
>Tim******
>Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
>RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
>http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
>******
>
Another possibility is sticking valves. A friend's Cub with a C90
Continental gave him fits for months (years?) until he pulled the
cylinders & cleaned the lead off the valve stems & guides. Symptom was
intermittant & unpredictable rough running.
Charlie
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Adding lead to elevator counterweights after painting?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>I think in the olden days, before Van sold the pre-formed weights,
>people would mix lead shot in epoxy and pour it in place. Maybe you
>could try that....
Yep, that was in the instructions for the elevators on the -6. Except the
Manual advised to pour molten lead and to line the corners of the cavity
where the lead is poured with aluminum foil beforehand (to prevent molten
lead from pouring out of seems) Don't know if the -7 elevators have an angle
of aluminum across the width of the area where the lead goes, to act as a
dam, but this could be easily added if you intend to go this way. The kit
even provided four 1/4-20 hardware bolts to install (2 per elevator) to pour
the lead around them.The dam was positioned 3" aft from the forard end of
the counter weight arm and I found that the resulting balance was a tad
heavy when the cavity was filled to the brim with lead. Easy to drill holes
to get balance right after painting.
(Sometimes design changes to make things easier don't work out that way!)
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Howdy Kevin,
Every time this has happened, it's been after a fill up. It's also been
after a climb. The soonest that it's happened after takeoff has been
about 15 minutes or so and yesterday's event was probably closer to 45
minutes after takeoff. It's always happened at 3000' to 6000' above
departure elevation.
I don't know for sure, but if it were heat soaked on the ground,
wouldn't you expect the vapor lock to show itself as hard starting or
soon after takeoff?
Nothing has been changed with fuel line routing. The only flex line is
from gascolator to carb and is firesleeved. I'll look again at exhaust
proximity.
The symptoms do sound like it could be vapor lock. I've been assuming
fuel delivery or venting so far.
Thanks,
Ed Holyoke
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:48 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>
> I'm grasping at straws here, but I'm wondering if it could be vapour
> lock. The description makes it sound as if the problem happens after
> you do a fuel stop, which is consistent with vapour lock. The time
> on the ground allows the fuel system components ahead of the firewall
> to become heat soaked. The problem would be more likely with high
> ground temperatures and higher cruise altitudes. Different batches
> of fuel could have slightly different vapour pressures, so you might
> see the problem with fuel from some airports and not others.
>
> But, I've never heard that C-150s had a problem with vapour lock. I
> would have thought that the typical trainer use would have been lots
> of trips with short stops in between, which should bring a vapour
> lock problem to the fore if it was there. So, that leads me to ask
> if there is anything different or amiss in the fuel system ahead of
> the firewall. Different fuel line routing. Reduced clearances
> between fuel system components and exhaust. Some component that is
> deteriorating and should be replaced, etc.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Kevin Horton
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hi Charlie,
Gosh I hope not. It doesn't feel like one or two cylinders, though. When
I say that it runs a little rough before the rpm falls off, I mean that
it's rough as if it were over leaned. It doesn't feel like a dog shaking
water off itself. Compressions all check normal, by the way.
Ed Holyoke
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie & Tupper England
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 8:16 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England
> <cengland@netdoor.com>
>
> Another possibility is sticking valves. A friend's Cub with a C90
> Continental gave him fits for months (years?) until he pulled the
> cylinders & cleaned the lead off the valve stems & guides. Symptom was
> intermittant & unpredictable rough running.
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hi Tim,
I know the carb bolts are good - I put 'em on myself. It's mounted with
a new gasket. Air filter is "Brackett" (it's a flat, oiled foam filter),
was replaced at annual and is clean and in good shape.
I'll look again at the hoses.
Thanks,
Ed Holyoke
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: Ed Holyoke; rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@earthlink.net>
>
> Grasping at straws:
> - How about looking for an induction system leak? (crack/hole in the
> rubber hoses that join induction system components; loose screws/bolts
> holding the carb to the engine).
> - How about dirty/clogged/defective air filter?
>
> Tim******
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> ******
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hi Wayne,
There's three vents on this '76 C-150 M:
There's a vent tube under the left wing near the strut and a crossover
tube to the right wing tank. Verified venting to both tanks with
compressed air.
Both caps have a flap of rubber covering four holes on the bottom which
communicate to the atmosphere in the handle part of the cap. The rubber
is flexible and not stuck to the caps. I blew through them to verify
that they're working.
You might be right about only one cap venting on earlier 150's. I seem
to recall my '63 150 C being that way. It had different style caps. It
did have the underwing vent also.
Thanks,
Ed Holyoke
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
<commando@cox-internet.com>
>I'm no expert either, but could it be a clogged vent on the fuel tank
cap?
>I understand that the right tank cap only has a vent on it and it could
be
>clogged.
>Wayne
>Do not archive
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Do yourself a favor and check the valves for sticking, lead buildup. Do
the infamous 'wobble check' service bulletin. It sure sounds like
sticking valves to me.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas? Redux (very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hi Tim,
I know the carb bolts are good - I put 'em on myself. It's mounted with
a new gasket. Air filter is "Brackett" (it's a flat, oiled foam filter),
was replaced at annual and is clean and in good shape.
I'll look again at the hoses.
Thanks,
Ed Holyoke
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: Ed Holyoke; rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@earthlink.net>
>
> Grasping at straws:
> - How about looking for an induction system leak? (crack/hole in the
> rubber hoses that join induction system components; loose screws/bolts
> holding the carb to the engine).
> - How about dirty/clogged/defective air filter?
>
> Tim******
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> ******
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Alternator Update |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net>
Ronnie, How many amp output is that alternator?
Jim Streit
90073
fuse
Ronnie Brown wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
>
>
>I found and fixed my alternator problem. There was a broken wire between the
field slip ring and the field winding. I added a U shaped piece of wire to reach
beyond the broken end of the field wire and soldered it back together. It
worked fine for one hour yesterday.
>
>Here's what I found out while researching this problem:
>
>My alternator is made by Hitachi and used on 81-87 Mazda (probably not RX-7's)
per NAPA parts manual and does not have an internal voltage regulator. I have
a VR-600 solid state regulator mounted on the firewall. Don George built my Lycoming
IO360C1C and says he obtained my alternator from AirTec at 1-800-366-4746.
They supply non- certified alternators for the homebuilt crowd.
>
>Also, someone says the Velocity factory sells an internally regulated alternator
for $200
>
>I also got an email from <Mahlon_Russell@teledyne.com>
>
>
>| Hi Ronnie,
>| I think the actual P/N of the alternator you may have is a Mitsubishi
>| 186-0355 or 14700. It may help in your quest for brushes! If you need a
>| replacement we sell the complete set up: belt, alt. mounts brackets and
>| hardware for $245.00. I agree expensive by automotive standards!
>| Good Luck,
>| Mahlon
>|
>
>Mahlon also sent the following:
>
>
>| Hi Ronnie,
>| It depends on where your engine came from or what application you are
>| trying to mimic.
>| Pipers used Mopar and Prestolite on O-320's
>| Cessna used Ford on O-320's
>| Beech used Ford and Prestolite on O-320's
>| Can't remember what Bellanca and some of the others used but basically they
>| all used some version of Ford, Prestolite or Mopar. To further complicate
>| things the mounting brackets and ring gear support assemblies were
>| different for each of the installations. IE belt that fit a ford alt.
>| pulley doesn't fit a MOPAR flywheel and same thing for the mounting
>| brackets. You really need to know what brackets and what flywheel you have
>| to make the correct determination of what's the right Alternator. If you
>| let me know what you have I will try to check it out for you On Monday when
>| I am back in the shop. If you are totally confused feel free to call me at
>| 1-800-624-6680 ext 305 and maybe I can better explain verbally.
>| Anyway I hope this helps,
>| Mahlon Russell
>|
>
>Time: 12:37:48 PM PST US
>From: "Jim and Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Alternator
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim and Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
>
>The Pelican alternator sold by ACS is off of a Chevy Sprint
>Spectrum. It is a small 65 amp alternator that is self regulating and has automatic
>overheat protection that resets when an overheated condition is resolved.
>I have one and it works well.
>
>Jim Cone
>
>Another post from kr shultz" <sfg0152002@yahoo.com
>Think it is a Suzuki Samurai 1995 to 2001
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Hi Bruce,
Is the wobble test applicable to a Continental O-200? I'll talk to an AI
about it.
I stuck a valve (I think) on my old C-150 when I reduced power too fast
at high altitude and it backfired in the exhaust a few times before
clearing up but it didn't feel at all like this problem.
Thanks for the idea,
Ed Holyoke
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:10 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> Do yourself a favor and check the valves for sticking, lead buildup.
Do
> the infamous 'wobble check' service bulletin. It sure sounds like
> sticking valves to me.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Phone Jack Fiber Washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>
>All-
>
>If anyone out there has a spare set of phone jack insulating washers, that
>normally come with all of the name brand 4-place intercoms, would you mind
>donating one set (one fiber shoulder washer and one fiber flat
>washer) to the cause
>of my buddy John Hyde's Fokker D7 replica?
>
>I had a few extra from the last three planes I built, but apparently gave
>them away to others over the years. The D7 is a single seater sans
>intercom but
>needs them for the Microair Com mic plug.
>
>TIA
>
>-GV (RV-6A N1GV 648hrs)
>
GV,
If you get stuck, I just successfully made some insulating washers
for a couple of phone jacks I had. I cut off a piece of a snap
bushing to make a plastic bushing for the body of the jack to go in,
and a I made some washers from styrene sheet I found at a hobby
store. Slightly ugly, but the jacks are not in plain sight so I
don't care.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? |
Redux (very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Ed,
I don't have any direct experience with vapour lock, so I could be
completely out to lunch, but I would expect the problem to happen
earlier in the flight if vapour lock was the cause of your problem.
You've run me out of ideas. All I can say is that I wouldn't venture
out of gliding range of a good forced landing spot until you sort
this one out.
Good luck,
Kevin
At 9:42 -0700 14/9/03, Ed Holyoke wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
>Howdy Kevin,
>
>Every time this has happened, it's been after a fill up. It's also been
>after a climb. The soonest that it's happened after takeoff has been
>about 15 minutes or so and yesterday's event was probably closer to 45
>minutes after takeoff. It's always happened at 3000' to 6000' above
>departure elevation.
>
>I don't know for sure, but if it were heat soaked on the ground,
>wouldn't you expect the vapor lock to show itself as hard starting or
>soon after takeoff?
>
>Nothing has been changed with fuel line routing. The only flex line is
>from gascolator to carb and is firesleeved. I'll look again at exhaust
>proximity.
>
>The symptoms do sound like it could be vapor lock. I've been assuming
>fuel delivery or venting so far.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ed Holyoke
>Do not archive
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:48 AM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
>Monicas?
>> Redux (very long)
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
>>
>> I'm grasping at straws here, but I'm wondering if it could be vapour
>> lock. The description makes it sound as if the problem happens after
>> you do a fuel stop, which is consistent with vapour lock. The time
>> on the ground allows the fuel system components ahead of the firewall
>> to become heat soaked. The problem would be more likely with high
>> ground temperatures and higher cruise altitudes. Different batches
>> of fuel could have slightly different vapour pressures, so you might
>> see the problem with fuel from some airports and not others.
>>
>> But, I've never heard that C-150s had a problem with vapour lock. I
>> would have thought that the typical trainer use would have been lots
>> of trips with short stops in between, which should bring a vapour
>> lock problem to the fore if it was there. So, that leads me to ask
>> if there is anything different or amiss in the fuel system ahead of
>> the firewall. Different fuel line routing. Reduced clearances
>> between fuel system components and exhaust. Some component that is
>> deteriorating and should be replaced, etc.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Kevin Horton
> >
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Installation Requirements |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jimnolan@insightbb.com>
Listers,
Is there any knowledgeable FAA type listers that can answer these questions
for me.
1. Can I legally install, test and fill out the evaluation sheet on an IFR GPS
unit without FAA FSDO intervention.
2. Can I legally install, test and sign off a Sensenich prop installation on my
RV-4 / Lycoming engine without FAA FSDO intervention.
3. Can I legally raise the gross weight of my aircraft, test fly, document V speeds
and sign off the change without going thru the FAA FSDO.
The trouble I have is, I get one answer from the FSDO and another from a MIDO
and still another from a DAR. I learned how to read but the interpretation of
the rules by everyone concerned are as different as the interpretations of the
bible.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
May be legal / may not be legal
Message 21
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| Subject: | RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery |
methods
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
First, let me say that Van's A/C makes wonderful kits & I'm very
grateful that I don't have to mine the ore like the old days.
That said, I'm pretty frustrated with the quality of the instructions
right now.
For those who have gone before me building a 'fully prepunched' -7 tail,
I'm referring to the 11th step on page 6-10 & following steps. After
clecoing & drilling the skin to the skeleton, we are told to, and I
quote, "Disassemble the elevator. Deburr, dimple and prime the parts as
desired." Has anyone followed this direction & been able to complete the
construction of the elevator without paying for a new E606PP trim spar?
Because 3 steps later we are told to machine countersink the top of E606PP.
Thanks,
Charlie
(For those of you who are just starting, be forewarned; this isn't the
first set of inconsistent instructions you will encounter.)
Message 22
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| Subject: | RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery |
methods
--> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster@flion.com>
Countersinking is generally reserved for skins over (or including; there
is some debate here) .040". Dimpling is not restricted to .040" and
under, but ya better be able to drive good dimples in the thicker
material <grin>. Seriously, there is a grey area where you can make
your own choice. Some people think you get better consistency from
dimpling; others think countersinking makes for better craftsmanship. I
countersunk my .040" skins before I found out I could make the choice.
If I had to do it over, every skin and thin bulkhead would be dimpled;
everything over .040" countersunk.
The plans are often ambiguous because there is more than one correct way
to do things. Because of the possible variations, it is never enough to
rely simply on the plans and instructions; you must also use the
hat/neck seperator. Reading up on construction techniques helps, as
does builder's assistance and Tech Counselors. And Sport Aviation this
month made nice mention of the centers that guide you through the tail
kit to teach you the basics of RV construction.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - aft side skins going on
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England
<cengland@netdoor.com>
First, let me say that Van's A/C makes wonderful kits & I'm very
grateful that I don't have to mine the ore like the old days.
That said, I'm pretty frustrated with the quality of the instructions
right now.
For those who have gone before me building a 'fully prepunched' -7 tail,
I'm referring to the 11th step on page 6-10 & following steps. After
clecoing & drilling the skin to the skeleton, we are told to, and I
quote, "Disassemble the elevator. Deburr, dimple and prime the parts as
desired." Has anyone followed this direction & been able to complete the
construction of the elevator without paying for a new E606PP trim spar?
Because 3 steps later we are told to machine countersink the top of
E606PP.
Thanks,
Charlie
(For those of you who are just starting, be forewarned; this isn't the
first set of inconsistent instructions you will encounter.)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Adding lead to elevator counterweights after painting?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I remember my golfing days of old when we used lead tape to add a bit of
weight to the back of a golf club. This stuff should work and/or you could
epoxy it in. Take a look at a golf supply house like Golf Works for lead
tape.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Adding lead to elevator counterweights after
painting??
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry"
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
>
> >I think in the olden days, before Van sold the pre-formed weights,
> >people would mix lead shot in epoxy and pour it in place. Maybe you
> >could try that....
>
> Yep, that was in the instructions for the elevators on the -6. Except the
> Manual advised to pour molten lead and to line the corners of the cavity
> where the lead is poured with aluminum foil beforehand (to prevent molten
> lead from pouring out of seems) Don't know if the -7 elevators have an
angle
> of aluminum across the width of the area where the lead goes, to act as a
> dam, but this could be easily added if you intend to go this way. The kit
> even provided four 1/4-20 hardware bolts to install (2 per elevator) to
pour
> the lead around them.The dam was positioned 3" aft from the forard end of
> the counter weight arm and I found that the resulting balance was a tad
> heavy when the cavity was filled to the brim with lead. Easy to drill
holes
> to get balance right after painting.
>
> (Sometimes design changes to make things easier don't work out that way!)
>
> Cheers!!----Henry Hore
>
>
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Last Thursday I departed into a 500 ft ceiling, flew 2 ILSes, crossed
through a front, and got over an hour of real IFR with the Dynon.
I would be lying if I told you there was not a touch of apprehension
sticking my nose through a front knowing that there would be some bumps
inside. Both the Dynon and the Navaid worked very well.
The heading on the Dynon wanders a little bit sometimes. Not really a
problem, a minor annoyance, I just have to becareful not to chase it. I
havent ripped out the DG yet and in the clouds I was thinking that I may not
get in a hurry to do that...... I am debating whether I would rather have a
DG or a Horizon if I was going to keep the vacuum system..... Dunno......
leaning toward the DG, but I may still take the whole vacuum system out.
I have done a little light IFR in a -6 before, but this is really my first
"real" RV-IFR. I am pleased with how nicely the -4 handles it is really
quick, but it is also fairly stable. The Navaid is a BIG HELP! and so is
the Rocky Encoder altitude alerter. I believe if you can not fly IFR
without an autopilot, you should not fly IFR at all, without the autopilot,
IFR in the -4 I turned of the autopilot for a while and I can do it, but,
without an A/P, you would sure want to keep the fuel in balance, and have
your charts folded before you took off. On a long trip you would get pretty
tired.
I have about 30 hours on the Dynon. So far, sooo gooood.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 25
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| Subject: | Installation Requirements |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
Jim,
I'm sure you'll get lots of different answers but here's mine.
1. IFR GPS install
No problem / no FSDO
Part 43 of the FARs does not apply per 43.1(b)("This part does not apply to
any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been
issued, unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously
been issued for that aircraft"). This means no 337 is necessary. It could be
argued that compliance with AC 20-138, "Airworthiness Approval of Global
Positioning System (GPS) Navigation Equipment for use as a VFR and IFR
Supplemental Navigation System" is necessary but technically Advisory
Circulars are "advisory". I feel that compliance with the AC is not that
hard and would be a prudent thing to do.
2.Prop install
Maybe a FSDO
You can do the work. FSDO involvement depends on your individual operating
limitations. Older ones required FSDO notification and sign off of any major
change along with a fly-off period as specified by the FSDO. If this is the
case use the FSDO involvement as an oppourtunity to get your operating
limitations changed to the newer type. Newer limitations require only a
logbook entry with a standard fly off period.
3.Gross weight change
Almost certainly a FSDO
At the least the plane would have to be returned to the initial test phase
with the approval of the FSDO.
I would welcome Mike Robertson's input on these questions.
Stan Blanton
Listers,
Is there any knowledgeable FAA type listers that can answer these
questions for me. 1. Can I legally install, test and fill out the evaluation
sheet on an IFR GPS unit without FAA FSDO intervention. 2. Can I legally
install, test and sign off a Sensenich prop installation on my RV-4 /
Lycoming engine without FAA FSDO intervention. 3. Can I legally raise the
gross weight of my aircraft, test fly, document V speeds and sign off the
change without going thru the FAA FSDO.
The trouble I have is, I get one answer from the FSDO and another from a
MIDO and still another from a DAR. I learned how to read but the
interpretation of the rules by everyone concerned are as different as the
interpretations of the bible. Jim Nolan N444JN May be legal / may not be
legal
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Phone Jack Fiber Washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: flmike <flmike2001@yahoo.com>
B & C has them, $0.50 a set.
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?24X358218
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Stribling" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
If you are using auto fuel This is the time of year they change the formula
for emenisions and it will not burn as well and maybe create a problem at
altatude
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas?
Redux (very long)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>
> Howdy Kevin,
>
> Every time this has happened, it's been after a fill up. It's also been
> after a climb. The soonest that it's happened after takeoff has been
> about 15 minutes or so and yesterday's event was probably closer to 45
> minutes after takeoff. It's always happened at 3000' to 6000' above
> departure elevation.
>
> I don't know for sure, but if it were heat soaked on the ground,
> wouldn't you expect the vapor lock to show itself as hard starting or
> soon after takeoff?
>
> Nothing has been changed with fuel line routing. The only flex line is
> from gascolator to carb and is firesleeved. I'll look again at exhaust
> proximity.
>
> The symptoms do sound like it could be vapor lock. I've been assuming
> fuel delivery or venting so far.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed Holyoke
> Do not archive
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:48 AM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
> Monicas?
> > Redux (very long)
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com>
> >
> > I'm grasping at straws here, but I'm wondering if it could be vapour
> > lock. The description makes it sound as if the problem happens after
> > you do a fuel stop, which is consistent with vapour lock. The time
> > on the ground allows the fuel system components ahead of the firewall
> > to become heat soaked. The problem would be more likely with high
> > ground temperatures and higher cruise altitudes. Different batches
> > of fuel could have slightly different vapour pressures, so you might
> > see the problem with fuel from some airports and not others.
> >
> > But, I've never heard that C-150s had a problem with vapour lock. I
> > would have thought that the typical trainer use would have been lots
> > of trips with short stops in between, which should bring a vapour
> > lock problem to the fore if it was there. So, that leads me to ask
> > if there is anything different or amiss in the fuel system ahead of
> > the firewall. Different fuel line routing. Reduced clearances
> > between fuel system components and exhaust. Some component that is
> > deteriorating and should be replaced, etc.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Kevin Horton
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Primer performance & edge finishing - Yes I checked the archives |
& not trying to start a primer war
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski" <brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
I researched all the primer issues I could find and made my decision a while
back but I thought it was worth checking back one more time.
I'm curious about how well all the different primer methods are holding out
in the real world. Most of the responses in the archives deal with what
people were planning to use as they were building.
What I'd like to know is:
What method/system did you use?
How long has your RV been flying?
What part of the world you're in - near salt/fresh water/next to a coal
burning plant, hangered/outside?
How well is your primer performing?
If you had to do it over what would you do differently?
Also, how anal were you in finishing/deburring/rounding off the edges of all
the ribs, spars and skins and have you had any cracking issues that make you
wish you had been more anal?
Brett Morawski
8 (8A?) emp ready to prime, wing ordered
Message 29
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| Subject: | RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa Monicas? Redux |
(very long)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Nope - it's 80 octane avgas, when we can find it, and 100LL when we
can't.
Ed Holyoke
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Stribling
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 8:48 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Stribling" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
>
> If you are using auto fuel This is the time of year they change the
> formula
> for emenisions and it will not burn as well and maybe create a problem
at
> altatude
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
Monicas?
> Redux (very long)
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
> >
> > Howdy Kevin,
> >
> > Every time this has happened, it's been after a fill up. It's also
been
> > after a climb. The soonest that it's happened after takeoff has been
> > about 15 minutes or so and yesterday's event was probably closer to
45
> > minutes after takeoff. It's always happened at 3000' to 6000' above
> > departure elevation.
> >
> > I don't know for sure, but if it were heat soaked on the ground,
> > wouldn't you expect the vapor lock to show itself as hard starting
or
> > soon after takeoff?
> >
> > Nothing has been changed with fuel line routing. The only flex line
is
> > from gascolator to carb and is firesleeved. I'll look again at
exhaust
> > proximity.
> >
> > The symptoms do sound like it could be vapor lock. I've been
assuming
> > fuel delivery or venting so far.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ed Holyoke
> > Do not archive
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> > > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:48 AM
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] Carb Ice over the Santa
> > Monicas?
> > > Redux (very long)
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
<khorto1537@rogers.com>
> > >
> > > I'm grasping at straws here, but I'm wondering if it could be
vapour
> > > lock. The description makes it sound as if the problem happens
after
> > > you do a fuel stop, which is consistent with vapour lock. The
time
> > > on the ground allows the fuel system components ahead of the
firewall
> > > to become heat soaked. The problem would be more likely with high
> > > ground temperatures and higher cruise altitudes. Different
batches
> > > of fuel could have slightly different vapour pressures, so you
might
> > > see the problem with fuel from some airports and not others.
> > >
> > > But, I've never heard that C-150s had a problem with vapour lock.
I
> > > would have thought that the typical trainer use would have been
lots
> > > of trips with short stops in between, which should bring a vapour
> > > lock problem to the fore if it was there. So, that leads me to
ask
> > > if there is anything different or amiss in the fuel system ahead
of
> > > the firewall. Different fuel line routing. Reduced clearances
> > > between fuel system components and exhaust. Some component that
is
> > > deteriorating and should be replaced, etc.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > >
> > > Kevin Horton
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery |
methods
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
Charlie,
I did the exact same thing. They have you c-sink the elevator trim tab spar (606)
so that you don't have to do anything to the hinge (I am told it gets wavy
if you dimple it). To fix mine, I ended up leaving the dimple in the top of
the 606 and just c-sinking the hinge (rather than dimpling it). I just finished
it up, and I do not think it would have come out any nicer the other way.
I agree on the instructions...some of them have steps out of order. I have started
reading ahead a little bit before starting any section, and that seems to
help.
Scott
7A Emp/Wings
--- On Sun 09/14, Charlie & Tupper England < cengland@netdoor.com > wrote:
From: Charlie & Tupper England [mailto: cengland@netdoor.com]
Subject: RV-List: RV-7 fully punched tail left elevator instructions & recovery
methods
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
First, let me say that Van's A/C makes wonderful kits & I'm very
grateful that I don't have to mine the ore like the old days.
That said, I'm pretty frustrated with the quality of the instructions
right now.
For those who have gone before me building a 'fully prepunched' -7 tail,
I'm referring to the 11th step on page 6-10 & following steps. After
clecoing & drilling the skin to the skeleton, we are told to, and I
quote, "Disassemble the elevator. Deburr, dimple and prime the parts as
desired." Has anyone followed this direction & been able to complete the
construction of the elevator without paying for a new E606PP trim spar?
Because 3 steps later we are told to machine countersink the top of E606PP.
Thanks,
Charlie
(For those of you who are just starting, be forewarned; this isn't the
first set of inconsistent instructions you will encounter.)
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