Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Re: seats fabrics.. (graham jones)
2. 06:31 AM - velcro peeling off (Frazier, Vincent A)
3. 06:33 AM - Painting problems (Tom Gesele)
4. 07:20 AM - Re: Painting problems (Scott Bilinski)
5. 07:27 AM - Re: Painting problems (Jerry Springer)
6. 07:42 AM - Re: RV frame of mind (Gkb5577@aol.com)
7. 07:44 AM - Re: Painting problems (Tracy Crook)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Painting problems (Dave Bristol)
9. 07:56 AM - Re: New RV Flying (Charles Rowbotham)
10. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Jerry Springer)
11. 08:31 AM - Painting Web site, forums, educational data and professional supplies (P M Condon)
12. 08:58 AM - Bad wing rib to spar rivets (GEORGE INMAN)
13. 09:03 AM - Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets (Terry Hobert)
14. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Brian Denk)
15. 09:14 AM - Re: seats fabrics.. (Bob)
16. 09:33 AM - Re: W&B on a -6A (Bob)
17. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (WMPALM@aol.com)
18. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Bill VonDane)
19. 10:10 AM - [new builder] Dimpling.. (Radomir Zaric)
20. 10:13 AM - Re: attaching seats (Gary B. Jacobs)
21. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Dana Overall)
22. 10:25 AM - Re: W&B on a -6A (Paul Besing)
23. 10:32 AM - governor hose hole in front baffle (Dan Checkoway)
24. 10:48 AM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (HCRV6@aol.com)
25. 10:49 AM - Re: W&B on a -6A (Scott Bilinski)
26. 10:51 AM - Re: seats fabrics.. (Dan Checkoway)
27. 10:52 AM - 6A Tip-Up for Sale (Dennis Persyk)
28. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Canyon)
29. 11:22 AM - LPS-1 vs LPS-2 (czechsix@juno.com)
30. 11:29 AM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (Pat Hatch)
31. 12:20 PM - Re: W&B on a -6A (dmedema@att.net)
32. 12:45 PM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (Dan Checkoway)
33. 12:54 PM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (Jim Jewell)
34. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (John Starn)
35. 01:27 PM - Re: governor hose hole in front baffle (Scott Bilinski)
36. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: W&B on a -6A (Rob Prior)
37. 01:59 PM - Re: W&B on a -6A (Dave Bristol)
38. 02:17 PM - Lycoming IO-360 (180 - 200HP) wanted (Dennis Parker)
39. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Friends (Gkb5577@aol.com)
40. 02:58 PM - Re: W&B on a -6A (Gkb5577@aol.com)
41. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Gkb5577@aol.com)
42. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Gkb5577@aol.com)
43. 03:06 PM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (Gkb5577@aol.com)
44. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Gkb5577@aol.com)
45. 03:29 PM - Re: Lycoming IO-360 (180 - 200HP) wanted (Scott Bilinski)
46. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: W&B on a -6A (Alex Peterson)
47. 04:47 PM - Re: W&B on a -6A (Kyle Boatright)
48. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: W&B on a -6A (Elsa & Henry)
49. 05:09 PM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (David Carter)
50. 05:11 PM - Fuel line help needed! (Bobby Hester)
51. 05:47 PM - Re: Rv list Hartzell Prop (Dave Bristol)
52. 06:50 PM - Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. (Larry Bowen)
53. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (WMPALM@aol.com)
54. 08:53 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Nick N)
55. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: RV frame of mind (Dave Bristol)
56. 09:45 PM - [ Jim & Terri Truitt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
57. 10:00 PM - Re: Fuel line help needed! (kempthornes)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: seats fabrics.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: graham jones <gratech2@bigpond.com>
Another option is bus companies... They usually have fairly stringent
fire/flame proofing requirements (well, they do in OZ) and either they or
their upholsterer may have some fabric left over from a bolt if they have
recovered their seats..... It would be fairly hardwearing too as its duty
cycle on a busy metro or interstate bus would be greater than in your RV I'd
reckon.....
Jonesy in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: seats fabrics..
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
>
> Bert:
>
> I have wondered the same thing regarding what type of fabric to use other
> than leather.
>
> One suggestion I would have is to contact any car guys in your area who
have
> restored cars. They should be able to direct you to the right type of
> material and/or someone who would do a good job for you locally.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> finish kit
> Peshtigo, WI
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bert murillo" <bert6@mybluelight.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: seats fabrics..
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: " bert murillo" <bert6@mybluelight.com>
> >
> > Dough:
> >
> > Thanks for the info. But I am having this done locally
> > since I bought the seats from Van's.
> >
> > I just wanted to get som input on fabrics used
> > by others...
> >
> >
> > Bert
> >
> > rv6a
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > Sign up for Internet Service under $10 dollars a month, at
> http://isp.BlueLight.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | velcro peeling off |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
SNIP I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back and seat base,
with the other half sewn into the fabric cusion. Problem is, I've yet to
find a glue that's stronger then the velcro. Any time I need to remove the
cusion, the glued velcro strip comes along with it.
I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. Any other ideas?
Andy SNIP
Yes, there is a better way. Put a narrow strip on the seat cushion, say 1" wide,
sewn on of course. Then put a wider width, say 2" or wider if you can find
it, on the seat back. The wider strip will resist pulling loose much better.
If you can't do that, simply put the strip on the seat back PERPENDICULAR to the
strip on the cushion.
And don't use cheap velcro! You can get heavy duty stuff in various widths at
Walmart in the fabric dep't.
Not just a hat rack.... Vince
Message 3
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| Subject: | Painting problems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gesele" <tgesele@hotmail.com>
Listers,
I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint
ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it
takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and
let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it.
Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or
can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and
starting over again)
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Painting problems |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
How old was the hardner (You did use hardner, right)? Some have a 2 week
shelf life after first opening.
At 09:33 AM 9/29/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gesele" <tgesele@hotmail.com>
>
>Listers,
>
> I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint
>ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it
>takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and
>let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it.
>
> Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or
>can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and
>starting over again)
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
>Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit)
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Painting problems |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
You mixed it with the hardener correctly? Imron is just about the
toughest paint out there.
Jerry
do not archive
Tom Gesele wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gesele" <tgesele@hotmail.com>
>
>Listers,
>
> I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint
>ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it
>takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and
>let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it.
>
> Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or
>can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and
>starting over again)
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
>Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit)
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys have
any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Painting problems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gesele" <tgesele@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Listers,
> >
> > I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The
paint
> >ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it
> >takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime
and
> >let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it.
> >
> > Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this
and/or
> >can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and
> >starting over again)
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any advice.
> >
> >Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit)
Ed Anderson had a painter who forgot the hardner (on the *whole plane*). It
took a couple of months but the paint did finally cure. Time cures all
ills?
Tracy Crook
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Painting problems |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Tom,
It sounds like you didn't use enough hardener in the Imron. It's a 2
part paint and MUST have the correct amount of catalyst.
Dave
Tom Gesele wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gesele" <tgesele@hotmail.com>
>
>Listers,
>
> I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint
>ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it
>takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and
>let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it.
>
> Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or
>can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and
>starting over again)
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
>Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit)
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New RV Flying |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Jim,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: "rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>(Receipt Notification
>Requested)
>Subject: RV-List: New RV Flying
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:07:18 -0400 (EDT)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov"
><Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
>
>Just wanted to let everyone know - kit # 81610, an RV-8A (N627TT), is
>now flying. 180 hp. Aero Sport Power, carb, Sensenich fixed pitch 85",
>full interior, day/night VFR, 1107 lbs.
>A lot of thanks to John Crabtree, Vince Frazier, and Steve Steckler for all
>their help, and especially John's "engineering s*** ".
>Special thanks to my most patient and loveable wife, Terri, who, by the
>way, designed the paint scheme and the interior, and installed the
>interior.
>Flys GREAT! Only 8 hours so far - can't wait to get some more stick
>time!
>
>
http://msnmessenger-download.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
You ask that on an RV-List? :-) Yes... word of wisdom are build the RV
of your choice. Pick the one
you like the best and get started.
Jerry
do not archive
Gkb5577@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
>
>I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys have
>any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Painting Web site, forums, educational data and professional |
supplies
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Long post
www.autobodystore.com
A great site to learn (or relearn) painting basics and purchase
professional supplies. I purchased my Devilbiss Plus Gravity gun from
them at 150$ off list. The paint gun was selected based on conversations
with Len Stewart, owner/operator of the online shop. Len will answer
questions and generally help you with your paint needs. I found the
counter folks at the jobber stores less then helpfull, lacking in
product familarity and generally lacking in the painting knowledge in
general. I only buy the paint from them now and rely on the data I got
from the forums.
Here is the section on "Painting Basics" from Len's web site......
Being HVLP and low VOC products are the way the industrys going I will
be referring to them in this discussion on painting and paint guns. Most
all basic issues dealing with HVLP can be applied to conventional guns,
atomization is atomization. The HVLP just arrives at it differently.
The object of the spray gun is to break up the primer/sealer/paint/clear
(I will call this PSPC from here out) into small particles and lay
them in neat little rows on the panel being PSPRed. So the whole outcome
rests on how well the gun is doing this. Picture the droplets of PSPC
coming out of the fluid tip of the gun and then the air slapping them
into smaller droplets.
You have two things that help you with this process, air and solvent.
Solvent can mean something that is already in the PSPR from the
manufacture or something the manufacture has told you to add to it. By
the way, you should always mix in proper ratios as instructed in the
tech sheet. The thinner (less viscosity) you get the PSPR or the more
air you have at the fluid tip of the gun the more it will break up the
PSPR. The target for you is getting the perfect balance needed. Too much
solvent and the PSPR will have no body, fill, durability, etc. Too much
air and you blow the PSPR everywhere but the car, poor adhesion,
excessive texture, etc.
So, the answer is proper air supply and gun (and fluid tip) choice and
how you adjust it.
With todays high solids-low VOC (Volatile Organic Compound, you know
the bad stuff that goes up into the air we breathe) products there is
less solvent. And with HVLP guns there is less air at the cap to break
up the PSPC, proper air supply and gun setup is more important than
ever.
FIRST THINGS FIRST, your compressor and air supply.
An HVLP gun requires more VOLUME of air to operate (the V in HVLP, High
Volume Low Pressure). Now you may notice that your HVLP gun is adjusted
at maybe the same PSI as an old conventional gun, around 50 lbs at the
gun (many HVLP guns are set at much lower though) so where is the Low
in PSI they are talking about? It is at the actual air cap where the air
and paint come out. An HVLP gun has only 10 lbs at the cap while a
conventional has upwards of 50! So the VOLUME of air (CFM, Cubic Feet
per Minute) is the key to proper atomization with an HVLP.
If you have a gun that requires 15 CFM you will need a compressor and
plumbing that will produce that at a very minimum. There are HVLP guns
that need as little as 7.5 CFM so you can get good results even from a
smaller compressor. Air supply is a complete subject by its self so
lets assume that you have the air supply needed and move on to gun set
up.
So atomization is the key, but why? Why cant you just lay it out wet
and let it flow, as an old painter will say. Picture a jar full of
bbs, they will represent well small, atomized droplets of PSPC. The
gaps in between the bbs is solvent. Now picture a jar filled with
marbles, they will represent large, poorly atomized droplets of PSPC.
The gaps in between are, you guessed it, solvent.
If you apply your PSPC in large poorly atomized droplets, what you will
have is a film full of solvent. This can and will cause slow curing,
shrinkage and dieback (the loss of gloss in the hours and days after
application).
So, now that we have learned the need for gun set up, how do we do it?
Lets start with the fluid tip choice. The newer high solids low VOC PSPC
products need to be broken up more, so a smaller fluid tip is needed.
Basically you want the smallest fluid tip that will still allow you to
PSPC the particular part you are PSPCing keeping the entire thing wet
and in a fair amount of time. In other words a 1.0 tip would be
beautiful for clearing one fender, but would be lousy to paint a
complete. The application would be way to slow and the first panel would
be way to flashed by the time you got around back to it. So you need to
compromise, a 1.3 is a great all around tip, while a 1.5 though getting
a little big, can get you by. If you read the tech sheet on the
particular product you are shooting, it will have a recommendation for
fluid tip size.
There are needs for other tips, for instance when shooting polyester
primer you may need as big as a 2.3, but for urethanes and epoxies, the
1.3 or 1.4 will work great. If you plan on using a pressure pot or paint
a bus, all bets are off and we would need to study a little bit more.
As an example of the use of a 1.3 tip I did a test once that proved the
point well. I shot two panels of metal with a med solids urethane
primer. One was shot with a 1.3 super high atomizing top of the line
topcoat gun. The other was shot with a 1.5 (or a 1.7 I cant remember)
hoser primer gun. Three coats were applied and after a full cure (the
one shot with the larger gun took MUCH longer to flash and cure by the
way) the film thickness was measured. The one shot with the 1.3 tip was
2 tenths of a MIL thicker! The larger gun laid out the marble sized
droplets full of solvent and when the solvent flashed the film shrank.
Air supply is a subject that could fill many pages by its self. So we
are going to assume you have that covered and move on to gun set up.
You need to tune your gun EVERY TIME you use it just as you would tune
a guitar before you perform. This is done with a very basic spray out
pattern test. This very basic test tells you how your gun is atomizing
and you adjust it to achieve the best atomization you can.
Lets do a spray pattern test:
Set the fan width as need (you dont want to change it after you have
tuned the gun). Turn out the material knob about 2 turns. This is
the mixture adjustment, kind of like the idle screw on a carburetor.
The farther in it is screwed the lower the fluid to air ratio is and the
smaller the droplets will be. The farther out it is, the higher the
fluid to air ratio is and the larger the droplets.
Set the air pressure at the inlet to the gun to the manufactures specs.
On an HVLP gun this spec is usually found on the gun and is the maximum
PSI it can have while still maintaining the maximum 10 lb at the cap for
legal HVLP transfer efficiency (68 %). You are now ready to do a test
spray out.
Tape a piece of masking paper on the wall for the test. Hold the gun at
a right angle to the wall, just as if you were going the wall. Hold the
gun at a spread out hands distance (about 8 or 22cm). Pull the trigger
to completely open for a split second and then close it. You want an
ON-OFF wide open-completely closed in ONE movement. You should have a
cigar shaped pattern with complete coverage in the center with fading
coverage going away from the full coverage cigar shape in the center.
The center should be fully covered without any runs. If you have runs,
either you are holding the trigger too long, you are too close or the
gun is simply applying too much material. In which case you need to
screw in the material knob or turn the air pressure down. But most
likely if you have turned the material knob out the 2 turns and the
air is set at the factory specs, you are just too close or holding the
trigger open too long.
The droplets you see trailing off the center are what you will use to
tune your gun.
Turn in the material knob to make the droplets smaller (and or raise the
air pressure). The balance you need to attain is the smallest droplet
size possible before you loose the coverage desired. In other words if
you turn in the material knob too far, not enough material will be
coming out to cover the panel!
Now, youll notice that I said, raise the pressure to the gun, while
earlier I said to set it to manufactures specs. We are talking a very
small adjustment. It is a fine balance in material to air ratio and a
little more air than specified is okay. Even if it is an HVLP gun the
inlet pressure recommended is to maintain the 10 lb limit at the cap.
Well, about three quarters of the country has no regulations for HVLP
use so if you go over the 10 lbs all it will do is atomize the material
a little better. You may loose a little of the benefits of HVLP though.
But remember you have a lot of control with the material adjustment
knob.
After you are happy with the droplet size, DONT TOUCH THE FAN CONTROL.
It will change the PSI at the cap and will change the atomization you
worked hard to get.
Do this spray out every time you spray as material change, temp, and
humidity will necessitate a spray out droplet pattern test. Good luck!
Check out this URL to see an example of a sprayout pattern.
http://members.aol.com/icantunderstand/hvlpdropletpatterns.jpg
Message 12
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| Subject: | Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman@attcanada.ca>
I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
better?
Warren Hurd
MIL-R-47196A(MI) ( MILITARY SPECIFICATION)
Shows that the head is OK if 1.4 times the diameter of the shaft
is good.
By the looks of some of your rivets you may have used the
wrong size rivet set (too small)
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman@attcanada.ca
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Hobert" <terhobey@hotmail.com>
Warren,
I had the same problem, I got all the ribs riveted to the main spar and when
I looked under at them I almost sh....... well you know. This was the right
wing too, I had already done the left wing and for some (luck of the draw, I
guess) reason they all turned out OK. Anyway, I ended up drilling out over
18 rivets! I read the advise on a lot of sights and then found that duct
taping up my rivet set and paying attention to the factory head more did the
trick. Live an learn I guess it is all part of the journey.
Terry Hobert 90680 - building fuel tanks.
>From: Warren W Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
>Reply-To: rv9-list@matronics.com
>To: "rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>, Matronics RV9 List
><rv9-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:42:05 -0400
>
>--> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
>
>I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting
>of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the
>factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the
>rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to
>make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much
>attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head.
>I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this
>better?
>
>Warren Hurd
>90454 Wings
>http://www.ahyup.com
>Mushroomed Rivets
>
>
Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
>
>I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys
>have
>any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
>
Friends don't let friends fly plastic airplanes.
Nuff said!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 40051....who needs a Cozy?
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: seats fabrics.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
A comment on seat fabrics.
I don't know how everyone else gets into an RV6, but I end up stepping
right in the middle of the seat before I am able to lower myself into the
seat itself. After a time this makes the fabric dirty/dingy.
Depending on how you enter and exit the aircraft, you might consider this
on the color and type of seat covering you use. I have tired to find a
good heavy canvass, OD in color. Neat thing about OD, the dirtier it gets
the better it looks. When I ordered my seats from D.J. she laughed at me
and told me canvass was not an approved covering as it was not very flame
proof. Somebody should have told all those Guys with the Right Stuff at
Edwards AFB during the 60's, as I recall the XF107 had a canvass seat laced
to a tubular frame!
So I have very nice dirty seats that are flame retardant.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
This is an very interesting topic. If the RV6 will carry 1800 pounds, what
about 1850? Just what is the real gross weight. I hope Van did some sort
of engineering analysis on the airframe, and just didn't throw darts to
determine the gross weight! This leads to the question, just what is gross
weight anyway (and I don't just mean the FAR defination)? Perhaps gross
weight is not an engineering term, but it has something to do with the
ability of potential pilots?
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
>On the record van's will tell you that you *should* set your max gross at
>1650. Off the record, they will tell you that 1800 is fine, just watch the
>CG as you burn fuel. I've been loaded to 1700 wihout a problem. Just have
>to watch the fuel burn. I landed with alot of fuel burned and it required
>alot of power on landing to keep her level. As long as the pilot ensures
>that all turns are shallow, no aerobatics, no abrupt maneuvers, etc, this
>airplane will fly fine at 1800.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: WMPALM@aol.com
Geoff,
After working several years part-time on a Velocity kit, I sold the kit about
50% complete and bought an RV-8A QB kit. It was a very good decision for
many reasons. The main reason, though, was that I simply could not build the
Velocity with my work schedule.
What I learned is that fiberglass kits must generally be built in
8-to-12-hour increments due to lay-up and cure/monitoring time. If you're retired
and
can work full-time on your kit, this is probably okay. If not, I would
recommend sticking with an aluminum or steel and fabric kit. You can work on
aluminum a few hours every day or evening and then quit. If you quit early on
a
fiberglass layup, you could have a nasty surprise when you check it later! I
know!
A little story: Ten years ago, when I first approached my wife about building
an airplane, I told her that I would like to build an RV-6A. She said, "How
many seats does it have?" I said, "2." She said, "Wrong Answer." (We had 2
children still at home.) Now that the kids are on their own, we're happily
building an RV-8A! If you need 4 seats, build an RV-10!
One other note: If you look at RVs from a performance, safety, builder
support, and almost any other objective measure, they almost always beat the heck
out of a Cozy or a Velocity. My personal opinion is that you've really got to
like the "spaceship" looks of the pushers to justify building them.
Good Luck with Your Decision!
Bill Palmer
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Let me just say that I have 3.5 hrs in my buddy's Vari-Eze now... What a
fun airplane! It aint an RV, but I think for the $$, < $20K, you get a
hellofalot of airplane!
Bring it flames!
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV frame of mind
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
>
>I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys
>have
>any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
>
Friends don't let friends fly plastic airplanes.
Nuff said!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 40051....who needs a Cozy?
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
Hi folks,
Just started out a -7A here.. and since I have NO experience (sounds
familiar to some, doesn't it?) I wanted to run this by you guys...
Got to dimpling the skins of the VS, and I'm not sure I did it all
right..
Here's a pic of what I'm concerned about:
http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2180.jpg
(the "shop head side" of the dimple doesn't really look "even." I
suspect I wasn't holding the skin perfectly flat).
Some of them came out like this:
http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2184.jpg
which seemed much better to me.
Should I re-do the "bad" ones? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Radomir
Charlotte, NC
RV-7A Emp.
Do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: attaching seats |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne@mchsi.com>
McMaster Carr Hardware has a lot of interesting types of hook and loop,
including sone super adhesive nylon and marine grade hook and loop that
should work nicely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: RV-List: attaching seats
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
<winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
>
> Speaking of seats, how does everybody attach the seat cusions to the seat
> frames.
>
> I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back and seat
base,
> with the other half sewn into the fabric cusion. Problem is, I've yet to
> find a glue that's stronger then the velcro. Any time I need to remove
the
> cusion, the glued velcro strip comes along with it.
>
> I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. Any other
ideas?
>
> Andy
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys
>have
>any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
Geoff, I've built a plastic airplane before I saw the light and switched
over to the dark side. I have one thing to say...................Can you
say, "epoxy rash"?? Seriously, I'll not get into the differences in the two
airplanes but I will get into one issue than presented itself dramatically
when I started on my RV. When you rivet A & B together to make AB, you can
rivet C onto it to make ABC. On a plastic airplane you must epoxy A & B
together and wait two days to glue on C. It has been a much more satisfying
building process with my RV than it ever was when I lived in the plastic
world. Another thing with plastic is take a picture of it when it is
completed, it will never look the same after the heat and UV start
distorting all those nice close joints between various parts.
Switch to the dark side. The only things you have to deal with are not
drilling your fingers (haven't done that yet where it brought blood ) and
those nasty alum pubes.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local
service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
Good question. I just know that the limits can be exceeded. How much, who
knows. I know Van would not just throw darts to determine GW, but what I am
sure he has done is built in a fudge factor for those who push the limits,
just to keep it from falling out of the sky. If he recommended the weight
at 1800, someone would go 1900, and so on. I have heard many mention that
this airplane is over engineered in many ways for this reason exactly.
Van's has told me not to worry about certain things due to the fact that the
plane is over engineered to allow for let's say, poor building habits.
I think most airplanes are this way. They can't set all the limts at the
*real* limits, or we would have alot more accidents due to accidental (or
intentional) acts of exceeding limits.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <panamared2@brier.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
>
> This is an very interesting topic. If the RV6 will carry 1800 pounds,
what
> about 1850? Just what is the real gross weight. I hope Van did some sort
> of engineering analysis on the airframe, and just didn't throw darts to
> determine the gross weight! This leads to the question, just what is
gross
> weight anyway (and I don't just mean the FAR defination)? Perhaps gross
> weight is not an engineering term, but it has something to do with the
> ability of potential pilots?
>
> Bob
> RV6 NightFighter
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | governor hose hole in front baffle |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
On my RV-7/IO-360-A1B6, the governor hose OD is 1" including the firesleeve.
I'm curious what the best way to protect this hose is, as it passes down
through the front baffle floor. Grommet? RTV?
The reason I'm even asking about this, rather than just simply using a
grommet, is that the location of the hole kind of straddles the edge of the
baffle bracket (part #16 in my kit) and the .063" doubler. The issue is
that the grommet would have to accommodate varying thickness...in some areas
baffle+doubler+bracket, baffle+doubler, and just baffle. The range is
basically .032 to .125, so I'm not sure if a grommet is best suited for
this.
Here's a photo of the front baffle, showing the location of the
hole-to-be...the clecoed hole is a good centering candidate:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_to_be.jpg
And here's a photo up from underneath, showing roughly how the hole will
straddle the edges of various thicknesses:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_beneath.jpg
If I were to drill the hole exactly 1", I believe the firesleeved hose would
have a snug fit. But I can't imagine that letting the firesleeve chafe
against the hole would be kosher. What's the best way to protect the hose
in this case?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 9/29/03 10:11:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
radomirz@vitez.net writes:
<< I suspect I wasn't holding the skin perfectly flat). >>
That is most likely your problem, but move on, when you set the rivets the
rivet head will form the dimple "to fit".
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Lets say there is a incident with some damage. A insurance claim is filed
and the insurance company suspects that you were over weight. The fight begins.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: seats fabrics.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> I don't know how everyone else gets into an RV6, but I end up stepping
> right in the middle of the seat before I am able to lower myself into the
> seat itself. After a time this makes the fabric dirty/dingy.
I think it depends partly on whether you've got electric or manual aileron
trim. Those with electric can use that area between the seats, just aft of
the spar, to step on -- avoiding the seat-shoe contact issue. If you've got
manual trim, the knob precludes using the area as a step.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | 6A Tip-Up for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk@worldnet.att.net>
I am selling my well-equipped 6A tip up due to back problems. Specs and pics
at
http://home.att.net/~dpersyk/rv6a.htm
Dennis Persyk N600DP 147 enjoyable hours
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Gkb5577@aol.com wrote:
>I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You
>guys have
>any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
---
Geoff,
I've followed both the EZ lists and the RV lists for about 5 years in
anticipation of the time I would build and initially had the same
thoughts. It's been a long time since I convinced myself the RV is
just more 'bang for the buck," and that doesn't count all around
performance advantages of the RVs.
Below is a clip from a builder of one of the EZ/Cozys:
---cut here---
Has anyone flown their Cozy into the Taos Regional airport? Did you
have sufficient runway to comfortably fly in and out? What time of the
year did you visit Taos? http://www.airnav.com/airport/SKX Runway
length is 5798' and the elevation is 7065' MSL
---cut here---
Don't recall ever seeing such a message from an RV builder. If you
intend to fly from one looong concrete strip to another, then that sexy
looking plane may suit your intended missions as well or better, but I
personally want a little more flexibility and may not have the luxury
of postponing an unexpected departure from the original flight
plan. Speed is within probably about 5% or so anyway.
Steve
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
Does anybody know what the practical application difference is between LPS-1 and
LPS-2 for general purpose lubrication? The former contains grease and the latter
is greaseless if memory serves me correctly. Seems that the -1 with grease
might hold up longer (i.e. be less likely to wash or evaporate out). Just
thought I'd tap into the endless knowledge and wisdom of The Great RV-List to
see if anybody has a revelation on which one to use for various applications
like rod end bearings, piano hinges, and various FWF linkages and assemblies--and
why one is better than the other for said application.
Forever indebted,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D painting...painting...painting...
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Like in many, many, other phases of this project, just make sure you're
tooling is perpendicular to the work surface...one trick is to try and see
the reflection of the tool in the aluminum, and line them up. Especially
for drilling and riveting. No need to re-do these dimples, you will have
your share of "less than perfect" results, most of them are acceptable,
those that don't pass your evolving standards, you can re-do. Learn from
your mistakes and move on. At the end of the project, I think you will find
that 99% of your workmanship was well within acceptable standards. Many
times attempting to improve on a mistake just makes it worse. Bad rivets
are the exception, most cleated rivets can be drilled out and repaired, but
you have to analyze what went wrong with a cleated rivet so that you won't
repeat the error.
Hope some of this helps.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
Subject: RV-List: [new builder] Dimpling..
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
> Just started out a -7A here.. and since I have NO experience (sounds
> familiar to some, doesn't it?) I wanted to run this by you guys...
>
>
> Got to dimpling the skins of the VS, and I'm not sure I did it all
> right..
>
>
> Here's a pic of what I'm concerned about:
>
>
> http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2180.jpg
>
>
> (the "shop head side" of the dimple doesn't really look "even." I
> suspect I wasn't holding the skin perfectly flat).
>
>
> Some of them came out like this:
>
>
> http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2184.jpg
>
>
> which seemed much better to me.
>
>
> Should I re-do the "bad" ones? Any suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Radomir
>
> Charlotte, NC
>
> RV-7A Emp.
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net
A couple of comments based on the recent posts regarding my
gross weight of 1800 lbs.
I decided on 1800 lbs based on various messages posted on
the RV list over the years. A major one was with regards
to the float conversion which supposedly received an ok from
Van to go up to 1800 lbs. There have also been postings
giving G loads at various weights and 1800 seems to still
be in the Utility category. I haven't had my plane inspected
yet (still waiting for the Feds), but am confident that I
am allowed to set the gross weight to what I want since I'm
the manufacturer. A slightly related issue is that there are
no structural differences between the -6 and the -6A, but the
gross weight was raised by Van by 50 pounds. I wonder what
the ultimate gross weight really is for these planes and
how is it determined? I suspect gear loads on a rough landing
have a lot to do with it.
With regards to insurance issues: I'm certainly no legal
expert, but I would rather be at 1700 lbs with a listed
gross weight of 1800 rather than a listed gros weight of 1650.
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM waiting for inspection.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Should I re-do the "bad" ones? Any suggestions?
Don't sweat it, just keep it all perpendicular as you dimple. But my real
advice to any new builder is that you ought to take the SportAir "RV
Assembly" workshop. It's *well* worth the money.
http://www.sportair.com/workshops/RV%20Assembly.html
Alternatively/additionally, find another local RV builder and/or an EAA
technical counselor. Other builders are what really make this whole thing
happen. I definitely would not have gotten this far without other guys
locally and all the help I've gotten on the email lists.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Radomir,
Give some thought to stopping now and making a table top addition that will
hold the work pieces level with the dimple tool.
I built a removable table / bench top about 36 inch wide and 6 or 7 foot
long add on that had a slot in it for the C-frame tool. My dimple C-frame is
out on loan so I cannot give you a depth measurement.
This table top unit is the same depth as the height of the dimple tool and
will be suitable for all the various panels that will need to be dimpled.
With care doing dimples this way will ensure correctly formed dimples and
eliminate distortions that can and do result from dimpling with the work
pieces loosely held or draped over the dimpling tool.
When not in use I stand the table top out of the way against the wall.
Also try dimpling some scrap materials of different thicknesses. a properly
formed dimple.
When held up to a light source with a straight edge across the top of the
dimple there should not be any space between the outer edge of the dimple
and the straight edge.
You might be surprised at how hard the dimple tool needs to be hit to get a
good dimple on an otherwise flat surface.
If you plan ahead and build the table height to accommodate covering the top
of the dimple table with cloth, carpet or what have you, you will reduce the
scratches that can come from sliding the work piece back and forth while
dimpling.
Happy building,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
Subject: RV-List: [new builder] Dimpling..
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Just started out a -7A here.. and since I have NO experience (sounds
> familiar to some, doesn't it?) I wanted to run this by you guys...
> Got to dimpling the skins of the VS, and I'm not sure I did it all
> right..
> Here's a pic of what I'm concerned about:
>
> http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2180.jpg
>
> (the "shop head side" of the dimple doesn't really look "even." I
> suspect I wasn't holding the skin perfectly flat).
> Some of them came out like this:
>
> http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2184.jpg
>
> which seemed much better to me.
> Should I re-do the "bad" ones? Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Radomir
> Charlotte, NC
> RV-7A Emp.
> Do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Starn" <jhstarn@earthlink.net>
Can you spell RV-10, take a trip to the northwest and check it out. I think
the money for the trip will be well spent. Do Not Archive KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV frame of mind
> >I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys
> >have
> >any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina
> >
>
> Friends don't let friends fly plastic airplanes.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: governor hose hole in front baffle |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Since the hose is at an angle the hole is made egg shaped. I just made the
hole with about 1/8 clearance all around and then sealed with red silicone.
OR
Why not run the hose on top of the engine? You have AFP, FI. The hoses
(Gov, and fuel) will fight each other if routed under the cylinders. At
least the did for me.
FWIW
At 08:57 AM 9/29/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>On my RV-7/IO-360-A1B6, the governor hose OD is 1" including the firesleeve.
>I'm curious what the best way to protect this hose is, as it passes down
>through the front baffle floor. Grommet? RTV?
>
>The reason I'm even asking about this, rather than just simply using a
>grommet, is that the location of the hole kind of straddles the edge of the
>baffle bracket (part #16 in my kit) and the .063" doubler. The issue is
>that the grommet would have to accommodate varying thickness...in some areas
>baffle+doubler+bracket, baffle+doubler, and just baffle. The range is
>basically .032 to .125, so I'm not sure if a grommet is best suited for
>this.
>
>Here's a photo of the front baffle, showing the location of the
>hole-to-be...the clecoed hole is a good centering candidate:
>
>http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_to_be.jpg
>
>And here's a photo up from underneath, showing roughly how the hole will
>straddle the edges of various thicknesses:
>
>http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_beneath.jpg
>
>If I were to drill the hole exactly 1", I believe the firesleeved hose would
>have a snug fit. But I can't imagine that letting the firesleeve chafe
>against the hole would be kosher. What's the best way to protect the hose
>in this case?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
dmedema@att.net wrote:
> A slightly related issue is that there are
> no structural differences between the -6 and the -6A, but the
> gross weight was raised by Van by 50 pounds.
Well, that's not exactly true. The main gearlegs on a -6A mount to the
front of the spar, don't they? And the nosewheel into the engine mount.
I think the default configuration also used to be a tip-up canopy on a
tailwheel, and slider on a nosewheel, but i'm not sure if that is still
the case. I would guess that an RV-6 would also have reinforcements in
the tailcone for tailwheel attachment. Off the top of my head, i'd
guess that these modifications would suggest that the -6 gross weight
shoudl be higher than the -6A, but I didn't design the plane so I don't
know what considerations were made.
> I wonder what
> the ultimate gross weight really is for these planes and
> how is it determined? I suspect gear loads on a rough landing
> have a lot to do with it.
Actually, they don't. Gear loads on a rough landing have a lot to do
with how the landing gear is designed, period. What (should) determine
the gross weight limitation on an airplane is the aerodynamic structural
limits of the aircraft for a given loading condition. In the case of
the -6, that's Utility category to 1600#, and Aerobatic to 1400#, if I
recall. My -7 will be Utility to 1800#, and Aerobatic to 1600#. I
don't know what components are the limiting factors in these conditions,
but without analyzing every structural member myself, I wouldn't change
the gross weight from what Van suggests.
> With regards to insurance issues: I'm certainly no legal
> expert, but I would rather be at 1700 lbs with a listed
> gross weight of 1800 rather than a listed gros weight of 1650.
I have a hard time believing that an insurance company would consider
one condition to be better than the other when the manufacturer's
recommended gross weight is 1650, unless you have some engineering data
to back up your increase to 1800. I doubt your adjuster would accept
"well, everyone on the RV-List is doing it and they say it's okay."
Just my $0.02.
-Rob Prior
rv7 "at" b4.ca
RV-7 Empennage (still)
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
On my -6, if I had an O-320 and a wood prop, I wouldn't be able to load
it above 1600 without exceeding the aft CG limit, since the empty CG
starts out pretty will back. As it happens I have an O-360 and a
Hartzell CS which moves the empty CG well forward. The airplane is
within CG limits when it's sitting empty on the ramp or when it's loaded
to 1850 lbs. with 100 of that in the baggage area. So, if Van set the
gross weight limit using the small engine and wood prop he probably
couldn't have set it any higher and still had anything in the baggage area.
So, I think that it might be more of a CG issue than a weight issue.
Dave
Paul Besing wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
>
>Good question. I just know that the limits can be exceeded. How much, who
>knows. I know Van would not just throw darts to determine GW, but what I am
>sure he has done is built in a fudge factor for those who push the limits,
>just to keep it from falling out of the sky. If he recommended the weight
>at 1800, someone would go 1900, and so on. I have heard many mention that
>this airplane is over engineered in many ways for this reason exactly.
>Van's has told me not to worry about certain things due to the fact that the
>plane is over engineered to allow for let's say, poor building habits.
>
>I think most airplanes are this way. They can't set all the limts at the
>*real* limits, or we would have alot more accidents due to accidental (or
>intentional) acts of exceeding limits.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A Sold
>RV-10 Soon
>http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
>Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
>http://www.kitlog.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob" <panamared2@brier.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
>>
>>This is an very interesting topic. If the RV6 will carry 1800 pounds,
>>
>>
>what
>
>
>>about 1850? Just what is the real gross weight. I hope Van did some sort
>>of engineering analysis on the airframe, and just didn't throw darts to
>>determine the gross weight! This leads to the question, just what is
>>
>>
>gross
>
>
>>weight anyway (and I don't just mean the FAR defination)? Perhaps gross
>>weight is not an engineering term, but it has something to do with the
>>ability of potential pilots?
>>
>>Bob
>>RV6 NightFighter
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Lycoming IO-360 (180 - 200HP) wanted |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dennis Parker" <dennis@k2workflow.com>
Hi All
Just started a new RV7 project and am looking for an engine (maybe a
little early). My preference would be for a new or less than 500 hour
engine from a reputable dealer. As I am based outside of the US I would
really appreciate feedback on reputable sources for such an engine. Also
while I am on the subject can anyone shed light on any reasonable JET A1
/ Diesel motor available today for installation into an RV?
Please reply off list (dennis@k2workflow.com). Diesel comments on list
would be useful.
Regards
Dennis
RV7 QB just arrived
do not archive
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
Niiiccce answer. You guys are sure helpful. Geoff
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
Does this mean that if you CAD out a RV that W&B could very rality based be
increased? Would it be necessary to lengthen the coupling to the empennage, or
some other reasonable mods? I'm thinking of starting ( anyone know of
someone with some parts/ kit, etc. they want to unload) one. Geoff
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
Thanks, Bill. I've done some fiberglass work too and what you say is exactly
the situation I encountered.. if you know of anyone that has partial kits,
etc. let me know, would you. No sense putting good a/c components to waste.
Geoff
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
I had some scraps of laid up FG on foam and took the out to the burn pile:
it was like lighting a fuse--that stuff REALLY IS petroleum product(s)!!!
Scares the heck out of me just thinking of the possibilities. Geoff
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
CHARLOTTE, NC!!! !!!! I'm in Statesville and thinking of starting a RV.
Could I pick your brains sometime? Geoff 704-872-0004, 7555
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
Steve: These comments are all very helpful. The clip reminds me of flying
the Piper Lance: aside from the obvious it too had 'port limitations. Thanks
again. Let me know if you hear of anyone with some of the kits, would you?
Geoff
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming IO-360 (180 - 200HP) wanted |
UPPERCASE_25_50
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
These are from Wentworth. http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/home.htm
0360A1A 180 H.P. LOGS LOST $8,950
0360A1D 180 H.P. 605 SMOH $13,500
0360A1D 180 H.P. 2700 SMOH $8,500
0360A1G6D 180 H.P. 2845 SMOH $8,500
0360A3A 190 H.P. 695 SMOH AEROBATIC $12,950
0360A4A 180 H.P. 540 SMOH BAD CRANK $7,500
0360A1F6D 180 H.P. 340 SMOH
0360A4A 180 H.P. 120 SFOH BAD CRANK $8,500
0360J2A 180 H.P. 1072 SNEW CONICAL MOUNT $10,500
0360J2A 180 H.P. 238 SNEW $12,950
0360A4G 180 H.P. 980 SMOH $7,950
I0-360A3B6D 200 H.P. 1947 SMOH
I0-360B1A 180 H.P. 871 SMOH
I0-360B1E 180 H.P. 1616 SMOH
I0360B1E 180 H.P. 128 SMOH
T0-360C1A6D 210 H.P. 350 SMOH
I0-360C1B 200 H.P. 85 SMOH
I0-360C1C 200 H.P. 510 SMOH
I0360C1E6 NO LOGS
I0-360L2A 180 H.P. 123 SNEW $13,500
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> Van to go up to 1800 lbs. There have also been postings
> giving G loads at various weights and 1800 seems to still
> be in the Utility category.
Utility category implies 4.4g's. This would not be wise to
intentionally do at 1800 lbs. I set my gross at 1800, but in my weight
and balance sheet I extrapolated the maximum g loading for 1800 lbs to
be about 3.6. This was based upon 6 g's at 1375 and 4.4 at 1650. This,
of course, assumes that the wing is the limiting structural item.
I also never plan to land above 1650 lbs. I recall Van (or someone at
Van's) once writing that the landing gear ARE a limiting factor
(obviously). It is a probability game, play with knowledge of the
risks.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 375 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
IF you juggle things carefully, you can move the empty CG far enough forward
with an 0-320/wood prop combination to carry plenty of baggage. I routinely
load 75-80 pounds of bags in mine with as much as 350 pounds of people up
front and 220 lbs of fuel. With this loading, I consider the last 50 pounds
of fuel (8 gallons, or one hour's worth) to be an emergency reserve, and if
it is an emergency situation, I'll take being a little aft of the
"allowable" CG over being a glider pilot.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034@lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>
> On my -6, if I had an O-320 and a wood prop, I wouldn't be able to load
> it above 1600 without exceeding the aft CG limit, since the empty CG
> starts out pretty will back. As it happens I have an O-360 and a
> Hartzell CS which moves the empty CG well forward. The airplane is
> within CG limits when it's sitting empty on the ramp or when it's loaded
> to 1850 lbs. with 100 of that in the baggage area. So, if Van set the
> gross weight limit using the small engine and wood prop he probably
> couldn't have set it any higher and still had anything in the baggage
area.
> So, I think that it might be more of a CG issue than a weight issue.
>
> Dave
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: W&B on a -6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
> I think the default configuration also used to be a tip-up canopy on a
>tailwheel, and slider on a nosewheel, but I'm not sure if that is still
>the case. I would guess that an RV-6 would also have reinforcements in
>the tailcone for tailwheel attachment. Off the top of my head, i'd
>guess that these modifications would suggest that the -6 gross weight
>shoudl be higher than the -6A, but I didn't design the plane so I don't
>know what considerations were made.
Pure conjecture, but when I started work on my -6A in 1994 there were no
sliders designed. I remember it being an option offered in a later RVator.
The GW's didn't change for the tip-ups in either configuration, I.e. 50 lbs
difference. I expect the raise in GW between -6 and the -6-A of 50 pounds
was due to the difference in weights between the tail wheel and the nose
wheel with its longer leg + fairing + bigger wheel + fairing and more
complex engine mount.
Cheers!! Henry Hore
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Radomirz,
Here's what I learned/did on my RV-6:
C-frame dimpler:
1. Build up the area around the C-frame so skin is almost same ht as bottom
dimple die - I used some scrap thin, wooden wall paneling and some scrap 2X4
or other stuff that I taped together to get the right height. I laid these
pieces on both sides of the C-frame maybe a foot or two away so skin was
"generally" flat.
2. I made a strip of wood maybe 3" long by 1" wide and the same thickness
as the ht of the dimple die and drilled a hole in the middle and laid it
over the dimple die - to give more support to the skin right around the
dimple die - big help.
3. Using a wooden hammer (and hearing protection) I go "smack, smack,
smack" - the first two smacks bent the metal and the the 3rd smack was like
hitting something solid - no more "give" or bending of skin/dimple - the 3rd
smack was "final test or proof that the dimple is fully set".
4. Buy the spring that makes the top shaft go back up out of the way so you
can move the skin to the next hole.
Using a pneumatic squeezer to dimple (you did invest the $200 or so for a
pneumatic thing? - Best $200 I ever spent): Set the air pressure all the
way up to "Max", i.e, 110, 115 psi or so. REASON: Several of us tested and
proved that lower air pressure resulted in the dreaded "not fully formed
dimple with an area about the size of a quarter (around the dime sized area
of interest of the dimple) that wasn't really flat. Full pressure
eliminated that problem. I suppose with a manual "pull the two handles
together" squeezer, the same is true - set the thing so it squeezes hard
enough to get a nice flat area around the dimple.
Oh, and make sure the skin's pilot hole hasn't slipped off of the male
dimple die before you "smack" or squeeze!
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
Subject: RV-List: [new builder] Dimpling..
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
> Just started out a -7A here.. and since I have NO experience (sounds
> familiar to some, doesn't it?) I wanted to run this by you guys...
>
>
> Got to dimpling the skins of the VS, and I'm not sure I did it all
> right..
>
>
> Here's a pic of what I'm concerned about:
>
>
> http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2180.jpg
>
>
> (the "shop head side" of the dimple doesn't really look "even." I
> suspect I wasn't holding the skin perfectly flat).
>
>
> Some of them came out like this:
>
>
> http://www.vitez.net/images/rv7-2184.jpg
>
>
> which seemed much better to me.
>
>
> Should I re-do the "bad" ones? Any suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Radomir
>
> Charlotte, NC
>
> RV-7A Emp.
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Fuel line help needed! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Vent lines installed, now I move on to the fuel lines and I am stumped :-(
I am building a 7A so those gear weldment are there. I ran the fuel line
from the flop tube straight back and plan on putting a 90 fitting to
attach the tube coming thru the fuselage. I looked at that corner where
the gear weldment is and I can not figure out how to even start , Help!!!
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Rv list Hartzell Prop |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Hi Joel,
Nobody seems to be responding to your question so I'll give it a stab.
This is completely from memory so you REAL mechanics out there will need
to cut me some slack!
On the compact hub propeller they use a combination of a stud and a nut
that are pinned together with a roll pin and of course a washer between
the nut and the propeller hub. This all came assembled on my prop so I
didn't pay a lot of attention to it but I guess they use that
combination because there isn't enough room to get a bolt in. The only
way you can run the safety wire is through the hole in the roll pin.
Dave
smoothweasel@juno.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
>
>
> Does anyone out there know what the combination of
>stud,washer,nut and locking arrangement is used when mounting a Hartzell
>to a O-320 B3B? Also I have one aluminum 12 in. spinner and a 12 in.
>fiberglass spinner that I would like to sell/trade for a 13 in.
>
>
>Joel "Weasel" Graber
>RV-4 Finishing
>Brooksville Ms
>
>
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | [new builder] Dimpling.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
There are many of us RV'ers in the Piedmont area of NC. Feel free to
stop by.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 systems, near 8A7.
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gkb5577@aol.com [mailto:Gkb5577@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 6:06 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: [new builder] Dimpling..
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
>
> CHARLOTTE, NC!!! !!!! I'm in Statesville and thinking of
> starting a RV.
> Could I pick your brains sometime? Geoff 704-872-0004, 7555
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: WMPALM@aol.com
Geoff,
Probably the best way to find a partially-completed kit is by "word-of-mouth"
in your local area. Shipping is certainly cheaper, and you can inspect the
kit relatively easily. A second option is Trade-A-Plane, but it's likely to be
more of a hassle. Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than
50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate.
If you're going the RV route and are looking to build as fast as possible,
you can't beat Van's Quick Build kits.
Good Luck!
Bill
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Nick N" <rvator@nicknaf.com>
*** Snip ***
Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than
50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate.
*** End Snip ***
Negative ghostrider.
Check the archives and the EAA website. The 51% rule should be no
problem in getting the repairman's cert on a previously started kit.
Just a quick search and I found this one, there are several hundred
other examples.
http://www.checkoway.com/url/?s=a39d360
Best of luck,
Nick
==
==
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
==
==
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: RV frame of mind |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>
>
> Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than
>50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate.
>
>
>
The airplane must be 51% "amateur built" but it's not necessary for the
holder of the repairman certificate to have built 51%, he could be one
of a group of builders and still get the certificate.
Dave
Message 56
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| Subject: | [ Jim & Terri Truitt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jim & Terri Truitt <Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov>
Subject: Jim & Terri Truitt's RV-8A
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov.09.29.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line help needed! |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>The 6a is similar. I made several sets of fuel lines, the ones inside
>fuse from valve to fuse wall, before I got an acceptable setup. If I were
>to do it again I would use fuel hoses. More money but easier and tougher.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>I am building a 7A so those gear weldment are there. I ran the fuel line
>from the flop tube straight back and plan on putting a 90 fitting to
>attach the tube coming thru the fuselage. I looked at that corner where
>the gear weldment is and I can not figure out how to even start , Help!!!
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