---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/05/03: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:41 AM - New rudder (Jerry Springer) 2. 01:42 AM - Re: Nylon brakeline fittings (Jeff Point) 3. 05:25 AM - Re: RV Flap Settings (Lenleg@aol.com) 4. 06:41 AM - Gary's cranking elevators and flaps (Paul Besing) 5. 07:16 AM - Re: RV Flap Settings (Gary Zilik) 6. 07:34 AM - Re: rivet gun psi (Elsa & Henry) 7. 07:41 AM - Re: New rudder (Stein Bruch) 8. 07:47 AM - Re: Paul's Mental Problems... (Stein Bruch) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: Dynon report (mstewart@qa.butler.com) 10. 08:28 AM - Re: New rudder (Jerry Springer) 11. 08:44 AM - Re: New rudder (Denis Walsh) 12. 09:14 AM - Re: New rudder (Mike Stephenson) 13. 10:02 AM - Re: New rudder (Jerry Springer) 14. 11:09 AM - Re: Dynon report (Sam Buchanan) 15. 11:12 AM - Re: Dynon report (Rob Prior) 16. 12:40 PM - Aileron counterweight (Ken Simmons) 17. 12:57 PM - Re: Aileron counterweight (Gert) 18. 01:06 PM - Re: New rudder (HCRV6@aol.com) 19. 01:25 PM - Re: New rudder (Jerry Springer) 20. 01:57 PM - Re: Nice Recovery! (Tracy Crook) 21. 02:08 PM - Altrak; was Dynon report (Gary Zilik) 22. 02:38 PM - SoCAL RV RendezVous - Nov. 1 (WMPALM@aol.com) 23. 03:02 PM - Re: Dynon report (C. Rabaut) 24. 05:20 PM - 23811 (Wheeler North) 25. 05:23 PM - SS tape (Wheeler North) 26. 05:29 PM - AlTrak article (Sam Buchanan) 27. 06:15 PM - My dead stick (mstewart@qa.butler.com) 28. 06:30 PM - Dynon (Wheeler North) 29. 06:31 PM - RV Training in BNA or RIC??? (RV6AOKC@aol.com) 30. 06:35 PM - Mixture Cable/Attachment... (RV6AOKC@aol.com) 31. 06:54 PM - Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In (Richard Sipp) 32. 07:05 PM - Re: Mixture Cable/Attachment... (Jim Jewell) 33. 07:51 PM - Re: My dead stick (Brian Denk) 34. 08:28 PM - Re: oil door (j1j2h3@juno.com) 35. 08:35 PM - Re: Mixture Cable/Attachment... (Larry Bowen) 36. 10:59 PM - Re: oil door (j1j2h3@juno.com) 37. 11:07 PM - tempo aircraft enamel (thomas a. sargent) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:32 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer If anyone is interested I have posted a few pictures that I took just before the first flight of the new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer on my RV-6. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html Having built one of the first RV-6 kits I could not believe the quality of the new kit. I picked up the parts at Van's a week ago Friday and flew it this last Friday. I have not mentioned it here on the RV-List tell now, but the reason I replaced them is because my rudder was damaged at the homecoming flyin this year. I don't know how it happened and no one has admitted knowing anything. My rudder was hit about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom and the trailing edge was pushed over about 2". Because I had to replace the rudder I decided to go ahead and replace the stab also with the new style larger rudder and stabilizer. Well report more as I get more time on it. Jerry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:36 AM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: Nylon brakeline fittings --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point Jeff Orear wrote: snip Jeff, I took the advice of several people and used the individual brake reservoirs on each cylinder. Randy Lervold has a pic of this on his site: http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20Aircraft%20Spruce%20A-600%20Brake%20Reservoirs His is for an 8 but it works on the 6 as well. These are available from AC$ for $11.60. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/reservoirs.php I did have to move some washers around to shim the master cylinders around to get good clearance between them, but it worked out OK. Jeff Point RV-6 wiring Milwaukee WI ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:07 AM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flap Settings --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com Mark: I worried a lot about not having flap marks ... now it is not an issue. If I am solo I land with about 15 - 20 degrees of flaps. I have the CS prop and battery up front. The lower flap setting was a hint from Pat Hatch that really works. Otherwise with full flaps it is really hard to keep the flare easy. With passengers I land with full flaps. I put half down at the numbers and the other half on base. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 150 hrs Mark:

I worried a lot about not having flap marks ... now it is not an issue. = ; If I am solo I land with about 15 - 20 degrees of flaps.  I have the=20= CS prop and battery up front.  The lower flap setting was a hint from P= at Hatch that really works.  Otherwise with full flaps it is really har= d to keep the flare easy.

With passengers I land with full flaps.  I put half down at the numbers= and the other half on base.

Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC  N910LL
150 hrs ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:59 AM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RV-List: Gary's cranking elevators and flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" Jerry, it's pretty simple, actually. He's got those elevons that have different throws on each half of the HS. He's got two rear view mirrors placed strategically so that both the flaps and the elevators are visible. It also has a site gauge to show the relative position of the downward thrown elevator. Match up the lines, and bingo, you have a perfect flap setting. Pretty cool set up, I think! Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flap Settings > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Hi Gary, > You well have to explain this one to me. :-) > > Jerry > do not archive > > > Gary Zilik wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik > > > >Indicators, who needs stinkin indicators. Ken Kruger once showed me that > >for takoff settings he would crank the elevator all the way over and > >match the flap position to the downward thrown elevator. This seemed to > >work pretty good. I have manual flaps and use 10 deg of flaps when heavy > >for takeoff. For landing my first flap notch is full. Get em down and > >forget about em. > > > >Gary > > > >Gary > > > >czechsix@juno.com wrote: >Forum - > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:31 AM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flap Settings --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik Jerry, First I am sorry to hear about your rudder. I am interested in your flight reports with the larger VS and rudder. "he would crank the elevator all the way over" Should have been "he would crank the ailerons all the way over" I guess you need to substitute aileron everywhere I type elevator. Sorry for the confusion. Gary Jerry Springer wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > >Hi Gary, >You well have to explain this one to me. :-) > >Jerry >do not archive > > >Gary Zilik wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik >> >>Indicators, who needs stinkin indicators. Ken Kruger once showed me that >>for takoff settings he would crank the elevator all the way over and >>match the flap position to the downward thrown elevator. This seemed to >>work pretty good. I have manual flaps and use 10 deg of flaps when heavy >>for takeoff. For landing my first flap notch is full. Get em down and >>forget about em. >> >>Gary >> >>Gary >> >>czechsix@juno.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com >>> >>>Guys, >>> >>>I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have >>>decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. >>>What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 >>>degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better >>>yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most >>>landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done >>>with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with >>>minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 >>>degree range? >>> >>>If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work >>>well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>--Mark Navratil >>>Cedar Rapids, Iowa >>>RV-8A N2D painting... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:45 AM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: rivet gun psi --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" To prevent erratic operation of the rivet gun regardless of length of hose from the compressor, I have my pressure regulator with gauge and filter at the end of the hose, usually hanging from my belt with about 6' from there to the gun. I set the operating pressure for the gun in use (2x or 3x) there, with the other regulator at the compressor end set at 80 PSI which is the cut-in pressure of my compressor start-up. Worked great for me. Cheers!!---Henry Hore ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:05 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hi Jerry, I'm very curious to see what flight improvements you might see. I also put a new "RV9" rudder/stab on my latest -6 that will fly within the next month or two. My current -6 has the old "short" tail, and really likes to wag in bumpy air. Also, I run out of rudder in gusty x-winds of 15+. I'm hoping the big tail will help on both fronts. Let me know if you do a new W&B, I'm also curious to see how much more weight is back there. Sorry to hear about your rudder damage. Too bad someone wasn't big enough to apologize and offer afew dimes to help. Happy flying with your new "6.9" as I call mine! Cheers, Stein Bruch, RV6's, Minneapolis. http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Subject: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer If anyone is interested I have posted a few pictures that I took just before the first flight of the new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer on my RV-6. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html Having built one of the first RV-6 kits I could not believe the quality of the new kit. I picked up the parts at Van's a week ago Friday and flew it this last Friday. I have not mentioned it here on the RV-List tell now, but the reason I replaced them is because my rudder was damaged at the homecoming flyin this year. I don't know how it happened and no one has admitted knowing anything. My rudder was hit about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom and the trailing edge was pushed over about 2". Because I had to replace the rudder I decided to go ahead and replace the stab also with the new style larger rudder and stabilizer. Well report more as I get more time on it. Jerry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:57 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Paul's Mental Problems... --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Paul, It's obvious you've begun to suffer from BWS - Builders Withdrawl Syndrome. Don't worry, it's very common. Medication is only around $35K, and the other part of the treatment involves bloodletting, which can be accomplished by slicing ones forearms and hands on a sharp object, such as sheet metal. The mental anguish and despair will start to dissapate with appropriate bleeding of ones body and wallet, along with exteneded periods of rehabilitation accomponied by the soothing sounds of a rivet gun and air compressor. I hope this condition doesn't last too much longer and you get better soon! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis (Can't afford a -10.....yet). Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Besing Subject: RV-List: Gary's cranking elevators and flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" Jerry, it's pretty simple, actually. He's got those elevons that have different throws on each half of the HS. He's got two rear view mirrors placed strategically so that both the flaps and the elevators are visible. It also has a site gauge to show the relative position of the downward thrown elevator. Match up the lines, and bingo, you have a perfect flap setting. Pretty cool set up, I think! Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flap Settings > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Hi Gary, > You well have to explain this one to me. :-) > > Jerry > do not archive > > > Gary Zilik wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik > > > >Indicators, who needs stinkin indicators. Ken Kruger once showed me that > >for takoff settings he would crank the elevator all the way over and > >match the flap position to the downward thrown elevator. This seemed to > >work pretty good. I have manual flaps and use 10 deg of flaps when heavy > >for takeoff. For landing my first flap notch is full. Get em down and > >forget about em. > > > >Gary > > > >Gary > > > >czechsix@juno.com wrote: >Forum - > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:05 AM PST US From: mstewart@qa.butler.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon report --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com Yes I am flying with it. Latency is a problem good an bad as an overall question. I could not tell you how fast or slow it is, other than all data is being displayed pretty much RIGHT NOW. More instantaneously than i like now, but i have been told I will get used to it. Damping of information displayed I am sure is software controlled and finding a happy medium between having the information flow and having it RIGHT NOW, is not an easy choice. It seemd jumpy initially, but it is just damn accurate. It would be a neat feature to allow the pilot to control dampening through the buttons, and remove the dampening over time. I watched at BMA's R&D shop one day while they were messing with this issue. Steam gage folks are used to lag and flow of information. It takes time to get used to the information moving in a RIGHT NOW sense. On the bench, it was pretty neat to see the compass heading tape roll 180deg. You could spin it real fast 180 degrees and the compass stopped right when you stopped. I mean RIGHT NOW. Thats pretty cool. Oh and while I am on the subject. I installed the remote compass module. It was a waste of time and money. The compass heading on the unit that is built in in just fine and as accurate as i would ever want to be on a mag heading. The remote unit, although nearly weightless, just adds another bunch of wires and things to mess with. I would add to my list of bad things, my decision to purchase this add on. It is not necessary on my installation. To answer you other ?, I would say you could use this unit day/night vfr just fine with out steam gages and get used to the diplay sooner than later. Oh and if Dynon is listening. A couple more suggestions. 1. I would like to se a screen that shows airspeed, altitude and G's as 3 numbers, BIG NUMBERS on the screen all by themselves. The G number display is difficult to read while trying to perfect maneuvers. But the numbers are damn accurate. You want to do a 3.2 G loop, and take it through 1.3 at the top? well then you can. But, like I said, I want them numbers WAY bigger and a dedicated screen for those 3 items I use while trying to perfect those maneuvers. 2. It would be a neat feature to allow the pilot to control dampening through the buttons, and remove the dampening over time. Mike Had my first dead stick yesterday, flight of 7, lead, while performing at SERFI. Mechanical fuel pump failure in flight. Landed safely on the runway. No harm no foul. WHEW! -----Original Message----- From: RV8ter@aol.com [mailto:RV8ter@aol.com] Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon report --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Thanks for the info. Exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Sounds like you are flying with it? How much latency is there in the values displayed. In other words, does the heading tape lag behind the actual heading by more than a second? Does the altitude, airspeed, etc seem too jumpy, jittery, or late settling down or is everything look pretty "right now and stable"? Would you recommend using it without any steam gauges in the panel as well? n a message dated 10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mstewart@qa.butler.com writes: > Subj:RV-List: Dynon report > Date:10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From:mstewart@qa.butler.com > Reply-to:rv-list@matronics.com > To:rv-list@matronics.com > Sent from the Internet > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Well I thought Id throw another 2 cents worth in for the Dynon. > Good news.: > 1. I like the horizon feature, bank angles, and compass tape. > 2. Install was easy. Bench flying was fun too. > > Bad news: > 1. I REALLY miss my true airspeed indicator on my Rocky mountain that I > removed. I used that number all the time like clockwork. Dyno needs to get > the OAT feature working soon. > 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. All other > units setting numbers like that, like com, baro, vor or whatever, all use > turn knobs for a reason. The push button format is cumbersome and time > consuming. A single turn knob for setting items like heading bug, baro. and > other items in the unit would be very useful. I will not use the alt. info > on the unit for this reason. When buzzing along, all baro changes by ATC > require a quick entry. THe push buttons are not a good choice,.I am glad I > kept the alt., airspeed, and vsi steam gages on the panel. > 3. I miss my audible alarms on my RMI that I removed. Dynon needs to get > audible alarms in for items like altitude, and airspeed ect. This would be a > simple feature to add and very useful to many pilots. There is nothing nicer > than setting an altitude with a turn knob, and an alarm to tell you when you > are +-50'. > > Overall it is a keeper. Put OAT, and a simple knob, and an alarm and you > have a major winner. > Mike Stewart > Do not archive. > > > > > > > Thanks for the info.  Exactly the kind of stuff I= 'm looking for.

Sounds like you are flying with it?  How much latency is there in the v= alues displayed.  In other words, does the heading tape lag behind the=20= actual heading by more than a second?  Does the altitude, airspeed, etc= seem too jumpy, jittery, or late settling down or is everything look pretty= "right now and stable"?

Would you recommend using it without any steam gauges in the panel as well?<= BR>
n a message dated 10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mstewart@qa.b= utler.com writes:


Subj:RV-List: Dynon report <= /B>
Date:10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:mstewart@qa.butler.com Reply-to:rv-list@matronics.com<= BR> To:rv-list@matronics.com
Sent from the Internet



--> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com

Well I thought Id throw another 2 cents worth in for the Dynon.
Good news.:
1. I like the horizon feature, bank angles, and compass tape.
2. Install was easy. Bench flying was fun too.

Bad news:
1. I REALLY miss my true airspeed indicator on my Rocky mountain that I
removed. I used that number all the time like clockwork. Dyno needs to get the OAT feature working soon.
2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. All other
units setting numbers like that, like com, baro, vor or whatever, all use turn knobs for a reason. The push button format is cumbersome and time
consuming. A single turn knob for setting items like heading bug, baro. and<= BR> other items in the unit would be very useful. I will not use the alt. info on the unit for this reason. When buzzing along, all baro changes by ATC
require a quick entry. THe push buttons are not a good choice,.I am glad I kept the alt., airspeed, and vsi steam gages on the panel.
3. I miss my audible alarms on my RMI that I removed. Dynon needs to get
audible alarms in for items like altitude, and airspeed ect. This would be a=
simple feature to add and very useful to many pilots. There is nothing nicer=
than setting an altitude with a turn knob, and an alarm to tell you when you=
are +-50'.

Overall it is a keeper. Put OAT, and a simple knob, and an alarm and you
have a major winner.
Mike Stewart
Do not archive.


=
;  - The RV-List Email Forum -
=
BR> =
BR> cs.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
t
cs.com/archives
re
ts
=






________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:17 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Ok, well try this again, someone let me know if it works or not. :-( Jerry do not archive Jerry Springer wrote: > >If anyone is interested I have posted a few pictures that I took just >before the first flight >of the new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer on my RV-6. > >http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder From: Denis Walsh --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh Worked. Someone > From: Jerry Springer > Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:27:34 -0700 > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Ok, well try this again, someone let me know if it works or not. :-( > Jerry > do not archive > > Jerry Springer wrote: > >> >> If anyone is interested I have posted a few pictures that I took just >> before the first flight >> of the new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer on my RV-6. >> >> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:33 AM PST US From: "Mike Stephenson" Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Stephenson" Jerry, The http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html now works correctly. Could you give more details on the problems you ran into when changing to the 9 rudder. If will be mounting the tail on my 6A soon, but if it a improvement, I would not mind building and using a 9 rudder. Mike Stephenson Lubbock, TX RV-6A canopy ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:14 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer There is absolutely no problem with the conversion at all. The toughest part for me was having to match drill the new holes in the vertical stab spar to match the existing hole in my fuselage where the original vertical spar was attached. Everything else fit with no problems. I am doing my 5 hour test flights in phase 1 now and have about an hours flight time. So far I have found that I have much more rudder authority taxiing on the ground It was a calm day when I flew on Friday but I found that it just felt much more solid in flight, I could take my feet off the rudder pedals and the ball would stay solid in the center. My big test well be when I can fly it on a windy day and try some x-wind landings. Jerry Mike Stephenson wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Stephenson" > >Jerry, > >The http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html now works correctly. > >Could you give more details on the problems you ran into when changing to >the 9 rudder. > >If will be mounting the tail on my 6A soon, but if it a improvement, I would >not mind building and using a 9 rudder. > >Mike Stephenson >Lubbock, TX >RV-6A canopy > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:58 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon report --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Well, Mike.......why don't you just put the uEncoder back in the panel??!?? :-) Your observations track quite closely to what I am seeing with my Dynon installation. The Dynon is mounted above the uEncoder which I retained as a backup and because I am using it for the xsponder encoder data. Turns out this was a good move since my brain is firmly calibrated to look at the uEncoder for speed and altimeter info, and having that info displayed in two locations was a bit confusing; consequently, the uEncoder is my primary display for airspeed and altitude just as it has been for the past 520 hrs. I disabled the digital speed and altimeter display in the Dynon which makes the attitude indicator easier to see. Like you, I feel the airspeed and altimeter numbers on the Dynon are too small and jumpy for these 50 year old eyes, and RMI has the damping PERFECT in their uEncoder display. I don't find the push button baro setting routine to be all that bad, but since I am using the uEncoder for the altimeter, it is pretty much a moot point. Besides, I have become SPOILED ROTTEN by the AlTrak! Just fly to the desired altitude, punch the green button, and let the electrons keep the plane at the correct altitude. Matter of fact, I have found you don't even have to level out; just activate as you climb through the desired altitude and the AlTrak will come back to where you want it! The Dynon AHRS platform seems to be solid; I intend to fly under the hood with it in the next few days during my BFR and will know more then as to how comfortable I am using it as primary flight reference. The remote mag installation in my RV-6 has been problematic and debugging continues. I really want to see it work accurately, and since other Dynon users have been able to get consistent results, it may very well be due to problems with my installation (however, another EFIS's mag worked fine in the same location on my plane....). I have spoken with Dynon about the damping characteristics of their display, and I suppose time will tell as to whether or not they see fit to refine the airspeed, altimeter, and heading portion of the display. It is a fine line between good damping and losing necessary sensitivity, but RMI seems to have it figured out. Over all, the Dynon D-10 appears to be a landmark product due to its performance, size and price point. I think it has set the benchmark for other compact EFIS manufacturers to meet. Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ==================== mstewart@qa.butler.com wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Yes I am flying with it. Latency is a problem good an bad as an overall > question. > I could not tell you how fast or slow it is, other than all data is being > displayed pretty much RIGHT NOW. More instantaneously than i like now, but i > have been told I will get used to it. Damping of information displayed I am > sure is software controlled and finding a happy medium between having the > information flow and having it RIGHT NOW, is not an easy choice. It seemd > jumpy initially, but it is just damn accurate. It would be a neat feature to > allow the pilot to control dampening through the buttons, and remove the > dampening over time. > > I watched at BMA's R&D shop one day while they were messing with this issue. > Steam gage folks are used to lag and flow of information. It takes time to > get used to the information moving in a RIGHT NOW sense. On the bench, it > was pretty neat to see the compass heading tape roll 180deg. You could spin > it real fast 180 degrees and the compass stopped right when you stopped. I > mean RIGHT NOW. Thats pretty cool. Oh and while I am on the subject. I > installed the remote compass module. It was a waste of time and money. The > compass heading on the unit that is built in in just fine and as accurate as > i would ever want to be on a mag heading. The remote unit, although nearly > weightless, just adds another bunch of wires and things to mess with. I > would add to my list of bad things, my decision to purchase this add on. It > is not necessary on my installation. > > To answer you other ?, I would say you could use this unit day/night vfr > just fine with out steam gages and get used to the diplay sooner than later. > > Oh and if Dynon is listening. A couple more suggestions. > 1. I would like to se a screen that shows airspeed, altitude and G's as 3 > numbers, BIG NUMBERS on the screen all by themselves. The G number display > is difficult to read while trying to perfect maneuvers. But the numbers are > damn accurate. You want to do a 3.2 G loop, and take it through 1.3 at the > top? well then you can. But, like I said, I want them numbers WAY bigger and > a dedicated screen for those 3 items I use while trying to perfect those > maneuvers. > 2. It would be a neat feature to allow the pilot to control dampening > through the buttons, and remove the dampening over time. > > Mike > Had my first dead stick yesterday, flight of 7, lead, while performing at > SERFI. > Mechanical fuel pump failure in flight. Landed safely on the runway. No harm > no foul. WHEW! > > -----Original Message----- > From: RV8ter@aol.com [mailto:RV8ter@aol.com] > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon report > > --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > Thanks for the info. Exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. > > Sounds like you are flying with it? How much latency is there in the values > > displayed. In other words, does the heading tape lag behind the actual > heading by more than a second? Does the altitude, airspeed, etc seem too > jumpy, > jittery, or late settling down or is everything look pretty "right now and > stable"? > > Would you recommend using it without any steam gauges in the panel as well? > > n a message dated 10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mstewart@qa.butler.com writes: > > > Subj:RV-List: Dynon report > > Date:10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time > > From:mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Reply-to:rv-list@matronics.com > > To:rv-list@matronics.com > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > > > > Well I thought Id throw another 2 cents worth in for the Dynon. > > Good news.: > > 1. I like the horizon feature, bank angles, and compass tape. > > 2. Install was easy. Bench flying was fun too. > > > > Bad news: > > 1. I REALLY miss my true airspeed indicator on my Rocky mountain that I > > removed. I used that number all the time like clockwork. Dyno needs to get > > the OAT feature working soon. > > 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. All other > > units setting numbers like that, like com, baro, vor or whatever, all use > > turn knobs for a reason. The push button format is cumbersome and time > > consuming. A single turn knob for setting items like heading bug, baro. > and > > other items in the unit would be very useful. I will not use the alt. info > > on the unit for this reason. When buzzing along, all baro changes by ATC > > require a quick entry. THe push buttons are not a good choice,.I am glad I > > kept the alt., airspeed, and vsi steam gages on the panel. > > 3. I miss my audible alarms on my RMI that I removed. Dynon needs to get > > audible alarms in for items like altitude, and airspeed ect. This would be > a > > simple feature to add and very useful to many pilots. There is nothing > nicer > > than setting an altitude with a turn knob, and an alarm to tell you when > you > > are +-50'. > > > > Overall it is a keeper. Put OAT, and a simple knob, and an alarm and you > > have a major winner. > > Mike Stewart > > Do not archive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Arial" LANG"0">Thanks for the info.  Exactly the kind of stuff I= > 'm looking for.
>
> Sounds like you are flying with it?  How much latency is there in the > v= > alues displayed.  In other words, does the heading tape lag behind > the=20= > actual heading by more than a second?  Does the altitude, airspeed, > etc= > seem too jumpy, jittery, or late settling down or is everything look > pretty= > "right now and stable"?
>
> Would you recommend using it without any steam gauges in the panel as > well?<= > BR> >
> n a message dated 10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mstewart@qa.b= > utler.com writes:
>
>
>
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:RV-List: Dynon report > <= > /B>
> Date:10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From:mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Reply-to:rv-list@matronics.com<= > BR> > To:rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
>
> Well I thought Id throw another 2 cents worth in for the Dynon.
> Good news.:
> 1. I like the horizon feature, bank angles, and compass tape.
> 2. Install was easy. Bench flying was fun too.
>
> Bad news:
> 1. I REALLY miss my true airspeed indicator on my Rocky mountain that I
> removed. I used that number all the time like clockwork. Dyno needs to > get R> > the OAT feature working soon.
> 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. All other
> units setting numbers like that, like com, baro, vor or whatever, all > use > > turn knobs for a reason. The push button format is cumbersome and time
> consuming. A single turn knob for setting items like heading bug, baro. > and<= > BR> > other items in the unit would be very useful. I will not use the alt. > info R> > on the unit for this reason. When buzzing along, all baro changes by ATC
> require a quick entry. THe push buttons are not a good choice,.I am glad > I R> > kept the alt., airspeed, and vsi steam gages on the panel.
> 3. I miss my audible alarms on my RMI that I removed. Dynon needs to get
> audible alarms in for items like altitude, and airspeed ect. This would be > a= >
> simple feature to add and very useful to many pilots. There is nothing > nicer= >
> than setting an altitude with a turn knob, and an alarm to tell you when > you= >
> are +-50'.
>
> Overall it is a keeper. Put OAT, and a simple knob, and an alarm and you
> have a major winner.
> Mike Stewart
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:17 AM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon report --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior mstewart@qa.butler.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. At Arlington this year, one of the units Dynon had on display was one with a knob in place of one of the end buttons. They had the firmware set up to act just as you describe, with rotation of the knob setting those numbers. They indicated they were evaluating the demand for such a feature, so you might want to send them an email and let them know you think it would be worth adding. -Rob ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:00 PM PST US From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: RV-List: Aileron counterweight --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" I only found one reference to this in the archives. I'm wondering about priming the aileron counterweight pipe. The reference said if using epoxy primer just etch, no alodine. The no alodine makes sense because it's a chemical reaction with the aluminum, but I'm not sure about the etching. Will alumi-prep (or equivalent) etch a galvanized pipe? I'm using a two part epoxy primer and would like to stick with that unless a different primer is just far superior on galvinized pipe. Thanks. Ken ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:26 PM PST US From: Gert Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron counterweight --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Ken Different etch for iron products. I lightly sanded the pipe, cleaned it thoroughly and primed with DP50 an epoxy primer from PPG. primer seems to adhere pretty good, I also blew primer inside the tube. Gert Ken Simmons wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > > I only found one reference to this in the archives. I'm wondering about priming the aileron counterweight pipe. The reference said if using epoxy primer just etch, no alodine. The no alodine makes sense because it's a chemical reaction with the aluminum, but I'm not sure about the etching. Will alumi-prep (or equivalent) etch a galvanized pipe? I'm using a two part epoxy primer and would like to stick with that unless a different primer is just far superior on galvinized pipe. > > Thanks. > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:05 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 10/5/03 10:03:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: << The toughest part for me was having to match drill the new holes in the vertical stab spar to match the existing hole in my fuselage where the original vertical spar was attached. >> Jerry: Was the -9 vertical stab spar predrilled for the mounting holes, and if so did you have any problem with hole to hole edge distance there? Thanks. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:05 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: New rudder --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer No, it was not pre drilled thankfully, I believe they are left undrilled on all of them so they can be drilled with the fuselage. I had to locate the spar in position and then transfer the hole location in my fuselage to the new spar. It was not difficult just time consuming to make sure the holes lined up properly and the vertical stabilizer was perpendicular to the horizontal stab.. The spar is basically the same width as the original -6 spar so hole edge distance was not a problem. Jerry HCRV6@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > >In a message dated 10/5/03 10:03:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes: > ><< The toughest part for me was having to match drill the new holes in the >vertical stab spar to match the existing hole in my fuselage where the >original vertical >spar was attached. >> > > >Jerry: Was the -9 vertical stab spar predrilled for the mounting holes, and >if so did you have any problem with hole to hole edge distance there? Thanks. > >Harry Crosby >Pleasanton, California >RV-6, firewall forward > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:31 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: Nice Recovery! --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > Had my first dead stick yesterday, flight of 7, lead, while performing at > SERFI. > Mechanical fuel pump failure in flight. Landed safely on the runway. No harm > no foul. WHEW! I was watching Team RV at SERFI and thought Lead broke off a little suddenly! Other than that, didn't even notice anything was wrong. Nice job Mike. Tracy Crook ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:36 PM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Altrak; was RV-List: Dynon report --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik I have to second Sam's statement. Talk about a wonderful unit. I forced it to +/- 500 feet off desired altitude and the Altrak returns to the assigned altitude at 500 fpm and does not overshoot. I sure wish my Navaid worked as good. Gary Sam Buchanan wrote: >Besides, I have become SPOILED ROTTEN by the AlTrak! Just fly to the >desired altitude, punch the green button, and let the electrons keep the >plane at the correct altitude. Matter of fact, I have found you don't >even have to level out; just activate as you climb through the desired >altitude and the AlTrak will come back to where you want it! > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:26 PM PST US From: WMPALM@aol.com Subject: RV-List: SoCAL RV RendezVous - Nov. 1 --> RV-List message posted by: WMPALM@aol.com RV Enthusiasts, Our SoCAL (Southern California) RV List group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socal-rvlist/) is hosting an RV "get-together= " called the SoCAL RV RendezVous on Saturday, Nov. 1 at Cable Airport, Upland, CA (KCCB) (http://www.cableairport.com). This "get-together" is an opportunity for RV enthusiasts (flyers, builders, friends, and family) to fly together, swap stories, swap extra RV parts, enj= oy RV camaraderie, have a little something to eat and drink, enjoy the sunshine= , etc., etc. - - Just a straightforward, informal "good time" for all! We'll=20= be ready for arrivals starting at 9 am, and the RendezVous goes until 4 pm. Note: SoCAL's weather is normally terrific in early November! For morning arrivals, we will have FREE donuts, rolls, juice, and coffee. For lunch, the Cable EAA Chapter will have their food booth with reasonably priced food and drink. Cable also has an excellent airport restaurant, Man= iac Mike's Caf=E9, for more "gourmet" fare at reasonable prices. Important: If you're planning to come to the RendezVous (75% sure, anyway!),= please RSVP to socal_rendezvous@yahoo.com with your estimated number of peop= le and vehicles (autos or aircraft) so that we can get a rough idea of how many= people and vehicles might be arriving. This will help us with aircraft and auto parking preparations, food and drink amounts, etc. THANKS! Further details concerning the SoCAL RV RendezVous will be e-mailed to you i= n a few days. If you have any questions, please reply to this e-mail, and we'll try to provide an answer, or at least an opinion! We'll look forward to seeing you on Saturday, Nov.1 at Cable Airport!!! RVs= FOREVER!!! Best Regards, Gary Sobek SoCAL RV RendezVous Chairman EAA Technical Counselor RV-6 N157GS Bill Palmer RendezVous Marketing & Communications Officer RV-8A QB In-Progress RV Enthusiasts,

Our SoCAL (Southern California) RV List group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group= /socal-rvlist/) is hosting an RV "get-together" called the SoCAL RV RendezVo= us on Saturday, Nov. 1 at Cable Airport, Upland, CA (KCCB) (http://www.cable= airport.com). 

This "get-together" is an opportunity for RV enthusiasts (flyers, builders,=20= friends, and family) to fly together, swap stories, swap extra RV parts, enj= oy RV camaraderie, have a little something to eat and drink, enjoy the sunsh= ine, etc., etc. - - Just a straightforward, informal "good time" for all!&nb= sp; We'll be ready for arrivals starting at 9 am, and the RendezVous goes un= til 4 pm.  Note: SoCAL's weather is normally terrific in early November= !

For morning arrivals, we will have FREE donuts, rolls, juice, and coffee.&nb= sp; For lunch, the Cable EAA Chapter will have their food booth with reasona= bly priced food and drink.   Cable also has an excellent airport r= estaurant, Maniac Mike's Caf=E9, for more "gourmet" fare at reasonable price= s.

Important: If you're planning to come to the RendezVous (75% sure, anyway!),= please RSVP to socal_rendezvous@yahoo.com with your estimated number of peo= ple and vehicles (autos or aircraft) so that we can get a rough idea of how=20= many people and vehicles might be arriving.  This will help us with air= craft and auto parking preparations, food and drink amounts, etc.  THAN= KS!

Further details concerning the SoCAL RV RendezVous will be e-mailed to you i= n a few days.

If you have any questions, please reply to this e-mail, and we'll try to pro= vide an answer, or at least an opinion!

We'll look forward to seeing you on Saturday, Nov.1 at Cable Airport!!! = ; RVs FOREVER!!!

Best Regards,

Gary Sobek
SoCAL RV RendezVous Chairman
EAA Technical Counselor
RV-6 N157GS

Bill Palmer
RendezVous Marketing & Communications Officer
RV-8A QB In-Progress
 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:46 PM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon report --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" Mike, Glad to hear everything went well with your "first" dead stick (odds are it won't be your last, I've hard a couple in two different aircraft). Let us all know, when you find out, what went tits-up on the mech. fuel pump. Take care, Chuck do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon report > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Yes I am flying with it. Latency is a problem good an bad as an overall > question. > I could not tell you how fast or slow it is, other than all data is being > displayed pretty much RIGHT NOW. More instantaneously than i like now, but i > have been told I will get used to it. Damping of information displayed I am > sure is software controlled and finding a happy medium between having the > information flow and having it RIGHT NOW, is not an easy choice. It seemd > jumpy initially, but it is just damn accurate. It would be a neat feature to > allow the pilot to control dampening through the buttons, and remove the > dampening over time. > > I watched at BMA's R&D shop one day while they were messing with this issue. > Steam gage folks are used to lag and flow of information. It takes time to > get used to the information moving in a RIGHT NOW sense. On the bench, it > was pretty neat to see the compass heading tape roll 180deg. You could spin > it real fast 180 degrees and the compass stopped right when you stopped. I > mean RIGHT NOW. Thats pretty cool. Oh and while I am on the subject. I > installed the remote compass module. It was a waste of time and money. The > compass heading on the unit that is built in in just fine and as accurate as > i would ever want to be on a mag heading. The remote unit, although nearly > weightless, just adds another bunch of wires and things to mess with. I > would add to my list of bad things, my decision to purchase this add on. It > is not necessary on my installation. > > To answer you other ?, I would say you could use this unit day/night vfr > just fine with out steam gages and get used to the diplay sooner than later. > > > Oh and if Dynon is listening. A couple more suggestions. > 1. I would like to se a screen that shows airspeed, altitude and G's as 3 > numbers, BIG NUMBERS on the screen all by themselves. The G number display > is difficult to read while trying to perfect maneuvers. But the numbers are > damn accurate. You want to do a 3.2 G loop, and take it through 1.3 at the > top? well then you can. But, like I said, I want them numbers WAY bigger and > a dedicated screen for those 3 items I use while trying to perfect those > maneuvers. > 2. It would be a neat feature to allow the pilot to control dampening > through the buttons, and remove the dampening over time. > > Mike > Had my first dead stick yesterday, flight of 7, lead, while performing at > SERFI. > Mechanical fuel pump failure in flight. Landed safely on the runway. No harm > no foul. WHEW! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RV8ter@aol.com [mailto:RV8ter@aol.com] > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon report > > > --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > > Thanks for the info. Exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. > > Sounds like you are flying with it? How much latency is there in the values > > displayed. In other words, does the heading tape lag behind the actual > heading by more than a second? Does the altitude, airspeed, etc seem too > jumpy, > jittery, or late settling down or is everything look pretty "right now and > stable"? > > Would you recommend using it without any steam gauges in the panel as well? > > n a message dated 10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mstewart@qa.butler.com writes: > > > > Subj:RV-List: Dynon report > > Date:10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time > > From:mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Reply-to:rv-list@matronics.com > > To:rv-list@matronics.com > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com > > > > Well I thought Id throw another 2 cents worth in for the Dynon. > > Good news.: > > 1. I like the horizon feature, bank angles, and compass tape. > > 2. Install was easy. Bench flying was fun too. > > > > Bad news: > > 1. I REALLY miss my true airspeed indicator on my Rocky mountain that I > > removed. I used that number all the time like clockwork. Dyno needs to get > > the OAT feature working soon. > > 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. All other > > units setting numbers like that, like com, baro, vor or whatever, all use > > turn knobs for a reason. The push button format is cumbersome and time > > consuming. A single turn knob for setting items like heading bug, baro. > and > > other items in the unit would be very useful. I will not use the alt. info > > on the unit for this reason. When buzzing along, all baro changes by ATC > > require a quick entry. THe push buttons are not a good choice,.I am glad I > > kept the alt., airspeed, and vsi steam gages on the panel. > > 3. I miss my audible alarms on my RMI that I removed. Dynon needs to get > > audible alarms in for items like altitude, and airspeed ect. This would be > a > > simple feature to add and very useful to many pilots. There is nothing > nicer > > than setting an altitude with a turn knob, and an alarm to tell you when > you > > are +-50'. > > > > Overall it is a keeper. Put OAT, and a simple knob, and an alarm and you > > have a major winner. > > Mike Stewart > > Do not archive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Arial" LANG"0">Thanks for the info.  Exactly the kind of stuff I= > 'm looking for.
>
> Sounds like you are flying with it?  How much latency is there in the > v= > alues displayed.  In other words, does the heading tape lag behind > the=20= > actual heading by more than a second?  Does the altitude, airspeed, > etc= > seem too jumpy, jittery, or late settling down or is everything look > pretty= > "right now and stable"?
>
> Would you recommend using it without any steam gauges in the panel as > well?<= > BR> >
> n a message dated 10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mstewart@qa.b= > utler.com writes:
>
>
>
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:RV-List: Dynon report > <= > /B>
> Date:10/4/2003 11:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From:mstewart@qa.butler.com > > Reply-to:rv-list@matronics.com<= > BR> > To:rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
>
> Well I thought Id throw another 2 cents worth in for the Dynon.
> Good news.:
> 1. I like the horizon feature, bank angles, and compass tape.
> 2. Install was easy. Bench flying was fun too.
>
> Bad news:
> 1. I REALLY miss my true airspeed indicator on my Rocky mountain that I
> removed. I used that number all the time like clockwork. Dyno needs to > get R> > the OAT feature working soon.
> 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. All other
> units setting numbers like that, like com, baro, vor or whatever, all > use > > turn knobs for a reason. The push button format is cumbersome and time
> consuming. A single turn knob for setting items like heading bug, baro. > and<= > BR> > other items in the unit would be very useful. I will not use the alt. > info R> > on the unit for this reason. When buzzing along, all baro changes by ATC
> require a quick entry. THe push buttons are not a good choice,.I am glad > I R> > kept the alt., airspeed, and vsi steam gages on the panel.
> 3. I miss my audible alarms on my RMI that I removed. Dynon needs to get
> audible alarms in for items like altitude, and airspeed ect. This would be > a= >
> simple feature to add and very useful to many pilots. There is nothing > nicer= >
> than setting an altitude with a turn knob, and an alarm to tell you when > you= >
> are +-50'.
>
> Overall it is a keeper. Put OAT, and a simple knob, and an alarm and you
> have a major winner.
> Mike Stewart
> Do not archive.
>
>
> >
> ;  - The RV-List Email Forum -
> >
> BR> > >
> BR> > cs.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> t
> cs.com/archives
> re
> ts
> >
>
>
>
>
>

>
> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:35 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: 23811 --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Hey 23811, this is 23841, congrats, man you really are old. ;{) do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:27 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: SS tape --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Of the two ideas I liked the Stainless Steel tape best, and if it was still available I would use it as my flap as it is beginning to show some scratches on the flap surfaces. Try JC Whitney Catalog they had it last year. Make sure you have it shipped to someplace other then your home as you will get 3000 catalogs from them for the next few years. W ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:51 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: RV-List: AlTrak article --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Here is a link to additional info about the AlTrak installation in N399SB: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/altrak.htm Sam Buchanan ============================ Gary Zilik wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik > > I have to second Sam's statement. Talk about a wonderful unit. I forced > it to +/- 500 feet off desired altitude and the Altrak returns to the > assigned altitude at 500 fpm and does not overshoot. I sure wish my > Navaid worked as good. > > Gary > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > > >Besides, I have become SPOILED ROTTEN by the AlTrak! Just fly to the > >desired altitude, punch the green button, and let the electrons keep the > >plane at the correct altitude. Matter of fact, I have found you don't > >even have to level out; just activate as you climb through the desired > >altitude and the AlTrak will come back to where you want it! > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:11 PM PST US From: mstewart@qa.butler.com Subject: RV-List: My dead stick --> RV-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com Well since the cat is out of the bag, and my e-mail is getting full with all the inquiry's, I have attached our flight debrief from the airshow at SERFI yesterday for you to read the events. At the end, Ill follow up with some notes based on the questions I have been getting. ======== 7 ship taxi and takeoff went real well. Our hold outside the box was a bit long for the show delay, but the only issue I was concerned about was Nomad making his Delta departure on-time. We watched the video of the flight extensively last night and surprisingly, the flight looked real good. We all felt it is a bit ragged as pilots, but the video proved otherwise. Transitions were smooth, and the runs to show center were quite good. Then.. at about 400' agl ... Well, my little engine problem and pitch straight up and out of the flight. I was very impressed with my instant decision to pull out of the flight without anyone in the flight knowing there was a problem. It was nice to see that our training kicked in instantly and the flight only knew that I was gone with "1's out". In summary: I had about 2 seconds of an alarm beeping at me. I looked at the instrument and a big fat Zero blinking on the fuel pressure. As I stared at it confirming I was seeing what I was seeing, I had one cough from the engine and I made an imediate decision to pull out and called "1's out". I made a 6 G pull, 130 deg. bank left for a look see at the runway and called "1's engine out, got the field made, Nomad you have the flight"(as briefed). Now I did not intend to pull that hard, but the 50lbs of smoke oil made made me more tail heavy than I considered at that moment, and I had only ONE concern at that moment... Get my ass out from this flight so I don't have a bunch of planes running into me. Airboss keyed up and said "1's cleared to land." I remember thinking. "Well thats good. Cause Im landing on that runway right there." I layed in the hardest slip I could and again keyed up, "I have the field, Jim you have the flight" Made a nice landing, and rolled off the runway into the grass while the rest of the flight regrouped and continued on without me, just as briefed. I got my engine started and taxied back. Turns out I had a failure in my mechanical fuel pump and had the breaker pulled for the electric fuel pump(for other reasons too complicated to explain here). Incredible job team for getting it together and pressing on. Our show was cut short, we had only completed about 1/2 of it, but it could not had gone ANY better than it did based on the circumstances. It is a testimate to our trainers (Stu, Subie, Nomad et al.), and the teams focus and attention to detail. The wingmen kept their position and the flight did not fall apart. Its incredible really when you think about it. Most of the on-lookers did not even know there was a problem. Thank goodness for all you military guys that have passed on your experiences to us civillian types. It saved my butt yesterday, and the others in the flight. Next show is columbia. See you there. Mike ========== Question? What about the electric pump? Well I had just completed a major panel change over and had not tested the elec. pump circuit. I left the breaker pulled before leaving home base that morning. I knew it worked, I had turned it on after the panel change, I had not changed anything in that circuit, but just as a matter of my own procedure, I dont turn anything on until I test the circuit(wire chase, current draw, etc.) on a major change like a panel overhaul. I pulled the breaker as a reminder to do it. It was a mistake for not following up on it sooner. It would not have changed the circumstances of the pitchout from the flight, but the engine would have fired back up and I could have put down with my prop making power. Question? Mike dont you fly with your pump on? Not as a matter of course. Usually only for acro, take-off and landing. But not that day. We discussed it during the debrief. Some do and some dont. Hind sight, well yes my elec fuel pump on would have cured that problem. But we all agreed that a pump failure like the is so rare, that is is Monday night quarterbacking to now have all pumps on. We have many more, much higher risk items to deal with when show flying like that and this one is extremely rare that to burden all with one more mental item to do would be detrimental. You want the flight members to have their mind one a small finite amount of items. You don't want to add rules for extremely rare items. For example. A tire failure in a formation takeoff is a much higher risk item, well somewhat in terms of the way we take off we try and take it into account, Do we address it really? No, we take the risk. I know your thinking just put the pump on whats the big deal. Well i probably will now. But it will not be a flight brief item. This needs more discussion between us. Much debate here to be had. And I am sure many will chime in about having the pump on when at low altitude. Ill probably have my pump running at low altitude next time when my battery fails on my dual elec ign.. Its hard to manage all the risks. Clearly I should have had that breaker in and it was a lapse on my part to not have done so. Mike how did you have the presense of mind to talk to the flight whilst your engine was out? Well quite frankly, once I pitched up and rolled and saw the runway, my only concern then was my buddies I left behind. I have seen formations go to hell from little items. I could not see them as they were going away from the airport. I was of course heading toward it. They were not talking as they were busy reconfiguring as briefed. Naturally they were also worried about me too so they were pretty quiet. We owned the freq.. But all I could think about once I saw the runway was the 6 ships I left behind. "Were they OK, did I pull hard enough? Was what I was thinking" In the end I had nothing to worry about. They were making power and were in good hands with Nomad (Jim Lawrence.. Lifetime military fighter pilot, formation flight lead and check pilot, Delta captain, good man, great stick, and so forth...) Mike why the pitch up so hard? The biggest danger of all is not pulling out in an engine failure. Although all flight members fly in a stacked down position, the clearance is minimal (2-4 feet Leader prop to vert fin for the guy in the slot for example) and it would not be pretty to the planes behind me to have a prop not making power while i continue straight and level. They would try by habit to match my speed and well, it would get ugly very very quickly. As part of our training, the only thing to do, and I mean RIGHT NOW, is to pull out. The danger in a pull out like that is that the flight follows you. Thats why the pull out must be abrupt and RIGHT NOW! you don't want any flight member to have the chance to follow you. 6 g's? No it did not have to be that hard, but I pulled to get the hell out, it just ended up the six is where the needle stopped. Speed at the time was 135kts. Next time I'll try and only pull 4.7:) Mike you guys briefed a lost leader? Yes. And I am glad we did. It is common enough for leader to have a problem that the flight needs to be taken control of imediately to maintain flight dicipline and flight safety. We don't necessairly brief a lost lead for every flight, but we do when we are show flying, doing low altitude maneuvering. Is there anytime during the flight where you would not be able to make the field? In theory no. We are never low and slow. Low and fast or high and slow yes. We get pretty slow at the top of our lazy eights during formation changes. But we work the routine so that at anytime, the field can be had. This was my first uncommanded engine out, but not my first dead stick landing. I have practiced several engine outs over big airports and landed engine out. I wanted to know exactly what my plane felt like when the engine was not making power so I have practiced it a few times. There is no question that my practice did help my calmness during this emergency. You glider guys know what I'm talking about. OK thats it. Let the discussions begin. Ill try and answer other questions as they come if they are addressed my way. This incident has changed me. There is no question about that. I am going through a strange mental period right now. I am sure there is a psyco babble name for the stage I am in. The event was actually no problem. The after event mentally has been challenging. I am so thankful for my mentors who instilled a few key items in me. I have learned some things. Regards, Mike Stewart ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:21 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Dynon --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Personally I would never consider an electronic EFIS system without the steam backups for the basics. The thing that makes the D-10 so viable is one can replace the AI with it and keep the other five standard flight gauges. RE compass it tracks like a blood hound, I have tried some serious turns and manuvers, when I come out it is pointed right on the spot its supposed to be. Rate of turn seems to be consistant with rate of compass tape motion as well. Altitude and VSI do lag slightly but probably wouldn't in a piper. Airspeed is right on, but then one really doesn't change the rate of speed that quickly in most aircraft. G-meter is also right there, and max deflection data is nice. TC and ball are actually a little too sensitive, it might be a nice feature to be able to adjust the sensitivity of these given the RVs tend to waggle a little more than Cessnas do. The horizon will fall behind in vertical motion coming out of some aerobatic manuvers, but this seems to be mostly vertical manuvers, not rolling ones. I tend to think its due to the radical changes in IAS that occur during a loop or hammerhead. This in turn affects the horizon as they do use the IAS data to reduce acceleration effects that are contrary to attitude changes normally caused by velocity changes. I'm not sure they can completely eliminate this nor should they as one should never be making radical changes in velocity while IMC. And the problem doesn't occur until late in the manuver as you are coming out of it. So if you inadvertantly attempt a loop in a cloud it will tell you this accurately going into it, but it will then be lagging behind for about ten degrees for a few seconds as you reaccelerate into level flight coming out. RE turn knob, they were looking at this with a demo at OSH but it will be costly. I have found that after some use I can change baro buttons almost as fast as with the conventional knob. Button two twice, hold on the inc or dec, then button 6 twice. And it has become as automatic. The time consumer is remembering to do both. RE OAT and true airspeed. I would like this too, but I have to admit that its my vanity that likes it mostly, given that TAS is higher than IAS. Truth is that GPS GS is the only thing that really matters beyond IAS. Good TAS just allows me to get a better picture of the winds. RE audible, would love this and I think it would be easy for them given that all the flight data is output on the PC line. Just have this go to a audio module that you program for whatever noises you want. ASI, AOA and G-meter noises/warnings would be great. So everybody chip in and send them an email on how much you would like their next project to be a programmable audio module/OAT sensor. ;{) W PS they are probably listening and they have installed a big brother chip in there so they can invert my horizon when I least expect it. Or when they ship out the next upgrade version there will be a special one for special whiners like me - VER 1.50.urscrewed.byebye ;{) do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:05 PM PST US From: RV6AOKC@aol.com Subject: RV-List: RV Training in BNA or RIC??? --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com Anyone know if there are any folks that do RV transition training in BNA or RIC?? I'll be in RIC on the 15th of Oct and BNA on the 21st. Looking for a 6A and instructor. Thanks... Kurt in OKC Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:35 PM PST US From: RV6AOKC@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the Mixture cable the rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on carb sized for #4. The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find any material to make a bushing due to the small difference in size between the two. I also looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a rod end bearing in a #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks again!!!!!!!!!! Kurt in OKC Finishing RV6A..... ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:14 PM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: RV-List: Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" A reminder: For those unable to attend LOE, the 3rd Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In will be held at Eagle Neck Airpark (1GA0) on Sat. Oct. 18. Eagle Neck is located on the Georgia coastline half way between Savannah and St. Simons Island. This is a low key event featuring a BBQ lunch and lots of southern hospitality. If you have the time, Savannah is a beautiful city and a visit there would compete a great weekend. If you can make it, please RSVP to this address for details. Dick & Vicki Sipp RV4 N250DS RV10 N1110DV 912 832 4813
A reminder:
 
For those unable to attend LOE, the 3rd Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In will be held at Eagle Neck Airpark (1GA0) on Sat. Oct. 18.
 
Eagle Neck is located on the Georgia coastline half way between Savannah and St. Simons Island.  This is a low key event featuring a BBQ lunch and lots of southern hospitality.  If you have the time, Savannah is a beautiful city and a visit there would compete a great weekend.
 
If you can make it, please RSVP to this address for details.
 
Dick & Vicki Sipp
RV4 N250DS
RV10 N1110DV
912 832 4813
 
 
 
 
________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:18 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Kurt, Some thin wall brass tubing from a hobby shop should keep the #3 bolt on center while being tightened. Once tight the bearing center race is clamped in place so bolt centering is all that is required if at all. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... > --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com > > Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the Mixture cable the > rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on carb sized for #4. > The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find any material to > make a bushing due to the small difference in size between the two. I also > looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a rod end bearing in a > #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks again!!!!!!!!!! > > Kurt in OKC > Finishing RV6A..... > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:45 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: My dead stick --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" Mike, WELL DONE on your composure in FLYING THE AIRPLANE and not endangering your formation. As a fellow member of the RV glider club, all I can say to those wondering what goes on in your noggin when the mill quits...well...you do as your are trained to do. PRACTICE power off landings folks. Then, practice some more. I can understand your strange mental situation now. After I was down and safe, I had a flood of mental thoughts...fear, anger, frustration, etc. The anger was directed to the airplane I had come to trust completely for letting me down. That trust will be regained for you. It only takes time. Fly safely. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 40051 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: oil door From: j1j2h3@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com J.C. Whitney has reasonably priced diamond cutting blades. Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin, Tennessee) Do not archive Original Message: From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: oil door --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Kurt, If you use a diamond cutting blade made for the dremel tool types. You should find it very easy to control. The blades I found are about 1" in diameter and very thin. They cut fiberglass like its butter. They also come in a larger diameter, about 2.5". They can be mounted on same shaft used for the cut off stones. I think Dremel sells the small diameter diamond cutters already mounted on a 1/8" shaft, Price wise you might say they give you the shaft....(:-)! ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:30 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I found a bushing for that situation at http://mcmaster.com. I had to trim to length, but otherwise it was perfect. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: RV6AOKC@aol.com [mailto:RV6AOKC@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 9:35 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... > > > --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com > > Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the > Mixture cable the > rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on > carb sized for #4. > The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find > any material to > make a bushing due to the small difference in size between > the two. I also > looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a > rod end bearing in a > #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks > again!!!!!!!!!! > > Kurt in OKC > Finishing RV6A..... ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: oil door From: j1j2h3@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com J.C. Whitney has reasonably priced diamond cutting blades. Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin, Tennessee) Do not archive Original Message: From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: oil door --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Kurt, If you use a diamond cutting blade made for the dremel tool types. You should find it very easy to control. The blades I found are about 1" in diameter and very thin. They cut fiberglass like its butter. They also come in a larger diameter, about 2.5". They can be mounted on same shaft used for the cut off stones. I think Dremel sells the small diameter diamond cutters already mounted on a 1/8" shaft, Price wise you might say they give you the shaft....(:-)! ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:35 PM PST US From: "thomas a. sargent" Subject: RV-List: tempo aircraft enamel --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" In the Aircraft Spruce catalog I came across paint in a spray can called Tempo Aircraft Enamel. It is supposed to be used for aircraft interiors. Has any one used this product? Is it reasonably durable? -- Tom Sargent RV-6A