---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/09/03: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:23 AM - Re: G meter and turn coordinator(long) (Mickey Coggins) 2. 03:11 AM - Re: A&P (Jim Sears) 3. 04:05 AM - Re: Re: GRT EFIS (Dana Overall) 4. 04:41 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Jerry Calvert) 5. 05:07 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Brian Denk) 6. 05:25 AM - Re: Maximizing Range (Dwpetrus@aol.com) 7. 05:29 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (RV6 Flyer) 8. 06:16 AM - V belt question (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 9. 06:21 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (RV_8 Pilot) 10. 06:30 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Scott Bilinski) 11. 06:56 AM - Dynon (Wheeler North) 12. 06:59 AM - New Integrated LED Position Lights & Landing Lights (Bill VonDane) 13. 06:59 AM - Re: Maximizing Range (Eustace Bowhay) 14. 07:40 AM - Re: Dynon mag update (Sam Buchanan) 15. 08:04 AM - Re: G meter and turn coordinator(long) (Ken Simmons) 16. 08:11 AM - Integrated LED Position Lights (Bill Dube) 17. 08:24 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Rob Prior) 18. 09:54 AM - Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Clay R) 19. 10:11 AM - Re: Dynon G feature (N13eer@aol.com) 20. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Boss) 21. 11:45 AM - Looking for Hobby Air respirator (Robert E. Newhall II) 22. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Sam Buchanan) 23. 12:17 PM - Re: Maximizing Range (kempthornes) 24. 01:16 PM - Re: V belt question (Sam Buchanan) 25. 02:31 PM - Re: Dynon G feature (Larry Bowen) 26. 02:48 PM - Re: Maximizing Range (Tedd McHenry) 27. 02:58 PM - Re: Maximizing Range (Alex Peterson) 28. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Jim Jewell) 29. 04:27 PM - Re: V belt question (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 30. 05:05 PM - Re: G meter and turn coordinator(long) (Phil Birkelbach) 31. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Bob Hassel) 32. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Jerry Springer) 33. 06:28 PM - Maximizing Range (David.vonLinsowe) 34. 06:31 PM - ECI TITAN Engine (Dennis Parker) 35. 06:44 PM - RV List (smoothweasel@juno.com) 36. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Kirsten Lacy) 37. 07:08 PM - Rv List (smoothweasel@juno.com) 38. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Ron Walker) 39. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX (Bob Hassel) 40. 09:30 PM - Speaking of Instruments (Karie Daniel) 41. 09:51 PM - Re: Speaking of Instruments (Ken Simmons) 42. 10:17 PM - Re: Speaking of Instruments (Terry Watson) 43. 11:12 PM - Re: Speaking of Instruments (Karie Daniel) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:28 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RE: RV-List: G meter and turn coordinator(long) --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > >... > >Anybody know of other digital G meters? The Dynon includes a digital G meter, and a lot of other stuff. To help me quantify the value of the Dynon, I did a little comparison of Dynon vs. "cheap" traditional instruments, and put it here on my website, if you have any interest. http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20031009110109367 -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:22 AM PST US From: "Jim Sears" Subject: Re: RV-List: A&P --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" > I would take one exception to your list, not all A&Ps are trained. And this > is a problem in some areas where the inspectors are a little loose in > signing off work experience, and the candidate takes a 3 day spin course. > That said, I know many good A&Ps who learned from the school of hard > knocks only, but somewhere out there is a plane with all their hard knocks on > it. I have to second Wheeler's comments. I've know some very good A&Ps who have gone on and gotten their IA ratings while working on the job. They never got any formal training other than what they picked up, along the way. I've also know some pretty poor A&Ps who have also gotten their IA ratings and were able to get formal training to become A&Ps. That's why I am so pushy about one's inspecting a partially finished project very carefully, even if it is supposedly built by an A&P. Not all A&Ps are created equal. The owner of a RV-6A that I had mentioned earlier is almost ready to fly his for the first time. A few more hours of finish up work will get it ready for the DAR. Per his note to me the other day, this one was supposed to have been built by an A&P. Some examples of problems he's had that I know of: improper installation of the front attachment for HS that could have caused it to come off in flight, front attach points on the tanks were installed backwards, aileron push tubes made without regard to proper length, wing slots so tight that it was almost impossible to install the wings without damaging something. As I said, buyer beware, even if it is supposedly A&P built. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:36 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: GRT EFIS --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >--> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" > >With the way the system integrates the EFIS, Garmin 430 and the Digiflight >IIVSG it should be quite the setup! Now I'll just have to learn how to use >it all. :-) > >Dave > Dave, when I talked with Greg at Oshkosh he told me they did not yet have the code to do anything with the 430. The best they could do would be to integrate into the moving map but the pic you would see would be far inferior to what the 430 itself wouldn't recommend doing anything with it. Since my 430 and trutrack will communicate, I chose to save several thousand dollars and go with Dynon. Has something changed recently with the GRT and Garmin as I am going with the GRT EIS and engine moniter screen. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:32 AM PST US From: "Jerry Calvert" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" Kristen, I agree with you about the insensitivity of the the way the article was written. I know it only added to the grief of the family and friends of the Woodards. Heartless journalism is the foremost thought that comes to mind. People that don't know Greg, but have seen his beautiful RV8, will assume that it was him that was lost in the accident. There should have been a disclaimer advising that the picture was an example of the type of aircraft. But, that thoughless action falls right in with the whole heartless approach taken by the reporter who wrote the article. I have copied Greg's email address from his website on this thread so that he will be aware of this. Thanks for keeping in touch with the RV list family. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC res ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirsten Lacy" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" > > > --------------Boundary-00=_1I3HQL80000000000000 > > > --------------Boundary-00=_2I3HLVC0000000000000 > > Jerry, I haven't a clue as to why they used someone else's pic in this > article. I had thought this site a good source of information until toda= > y. > Perhaps (?) they've forgotten how personal this can be. My sister actual= > ly > sent them a scathing e-mail ( she left a message on the phone, but it was > not returned ) about how they had reported this story about the Woodards. > Their remains were scattered...." no one, I think, wants to hear that, > least of all family and friends. There was no author or reporter was lis= > ted > as being responsible for this article. > > If you should find out why why Greg Hale's pic was used, would you please > let me know via this board, or e-mail me direct. These past months have > truly been an experience, learning to deal with the FAA, NTSB, and the > media, searching for information. I've considered lately that I would li= > ke > to use this knowledge to help other families in the same situation. > > Thanks for any help, resources, or insight y'all can provide. Anyone w= > ho > needs info on navigating this kind of loss, please e-mail me. > > Kirsten Stugart Lacy ( stepping off of the soapbox, lol ) > klacy@totalaccess.net > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:06:28 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" > > For some reason they used a picture of Greg Hale's RV8 in this article???= > > > Jerry Calvert > Edmond Ok > RV6 N296JC res > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirsten Lacy" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" > > > > here's another.... > > > > > http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID0263216f-575c-484c-bb= > 44-a2 > > 3e943d3a1c&#d > > > > Kirsten Stugart Lacy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "RV_8 Pilot" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" > > > > > > Anyone have info on this? > > > > > > http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1007_N.txt > > > > > > Bryan Jones -8 > > > Pearland, Texas > > > > > > > > > > > > > rt > > > --------------Boundary-00=_2I3HLVC0000000000000 > > > 1"> > > > > 10px 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bgColor#ffffff background"" scroll= > yes ORGYPOS"0" X-FVER"3.0"> > %" border0> > > > > >
AMILY: Arial" width"100%"> >
Jerry, I haven't a clue as to why they used someone else's pic in th= > is article.  I had thought this site a good source of information un= > til today.  Perhaps (?) they've forgotten how personal this can= > be.  My sister actually sent them a scathing e-mail > ( she left a message on the phone, but it was not returned ) about h= > ow they had reported this story about the Woodards."Their remains we= > re scattered...."   no one, I think, wants to hear that, l= > east of all family and friends.  There was no author or reporte= > r was listed as being responsible for this article.
>
 
>
If you should find out why why Greg Hale's pic was used, would you p= > lease let me know via this board, or e-mail me direct.  These past m= > onths have truly been an experience, learning to deal with the  FAA,= > NTSB,  and the media, searching for information.  I've conside= > red lately that I would like to use this knowledge to help other fam= > ilies in the same situation.
>
 
>
Thanks for any help, resources,  or insight  y'all ca= > n provide.  Anyone who needs info on navigating this kind of lo= > ss, please e-mail me.
>
 
>
Kirsten Stugart Lacy  (  stepping off of the soapbox, lol > )
>
klacy@totalaccess.net DIV> >

 
>
-------Original Message------- IV> >
 
>
> >
Date: Wednesday, O= > ctober 08, 2003 10:06:28 PM
> >
Subject: Re: RV-Li= > st: RV-8 Accident in N TX
>
 
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" < href"mailto:rv6@cox.net">rv6@cox.net>

For some reason t= > hey used a picture of Greg Hale's RV8 in this article???

Jerry Cal= > vert
Edmond Ok
RV6 N296JC res
----- Original Message -----
Fr= > om: "Kirsten Lacy" <klacy@tot= > alaccess.net>
To: <= > rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N= > TX


> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" <= > klacy@totalaccess.net> >>
> here's another....
>
>
aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID0263216f-575c-484c-bb44-a2">h= > ttp://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID0263216f-575c-484c-bb4= > 4-a2
> 3e943d3a1c&#d
>
> Kirsten Stugart Lacy R>>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RV_8 Pilot" &l= > t;rv_8pilot@hotmail.com><= > BR>> To: <rv-list@matronic= > s.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX
>
= > >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" < ref"mailto:rv_8pilot@hotmail.com">rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>= > ; >
> > Anyone have info on this?
> >
> > <= > A href"http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1007_N.txt">http://www1.faa.gov/a= > vr/aai/M_1007_N.txt
> >
> > Bryan Jones -8
> > > Pearland, Texas
> >
> >
>
>

>
= > > > ef"http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com/t= > > > UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://w= > w.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm">http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm= > p://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list">http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-= > s: http://www.matronics.com= > : http://www.matronics.com/r= > A href"http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.c= > > >

R>


.
> > > > > > ABLE>
ONT face"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size2>______________________= > ______________________________
<= > A href"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id309&lang9">= > alignbaseline border0>  IncrediMail - Email has= > finally evolved - asp?ad_id309&lang9">= > Click Here > --------------Boundary-00=_2I3HLVC0000000000000-- > > --------------Boundary-00=_1I3HQL80000000000000 > name="IMSTP.gif" > > R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B > URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt > E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE > CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ > AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ > Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj > 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 > BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= > > --------------Boundary-00=_1I3HQL80000000000000-- > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:35 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" > >For some reason they used a picture of Greg Hale's RV8 in this article??? > >Jerry Calvert >Edmond Ok Note it says "file photo below". Purely used as an example for those unfamiliar with the RV8. Truly a tragic event in any case. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:53 AM PST US From: Dwpetrus@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Maximizing Range --> RV-List message posted by: Dwpetrus@aol.com At full throttle on a carb. engine the cylinders receive closer to equal amounts of fuel air mixture and therefore a little more effecient. Wayne Petrus RV8A At full throttle on a carb. engine the cylinders recei= ve closer to equal amounts of fuel air mixture and therefore a little more e= ffecient.

Wayne Petrus
RV8A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:36 AM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" http://www.vansairforce.net/ It was listed on 10-7-03. Do not archive ----Original Message Follows---- From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" Anyone have info on this? http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1007_N.txt Bryan Jones -8 Pearland, Texas ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:58 AM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: RV-List: V belt question --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" I have Van's 35 amp alternator. The pulley on it is narrower than the groove on Lycoming's flywheel. When I put a belt on, it will set nicely down into the Lycoming but sits high in the alternator pulley perhaps only half down into it. Any ideas about this. Will it "seat in" after running or should I try to get a new pulley now that matches the Lycoming flywheel pulley groove? It looks to me like there is a pretty good mismatch in the 35 amp Pulley. do not archive Phil ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:55 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" It seems to me that they used the pic as an example of an RV-8, but could see where it might be misleading. The preliminary FAA report was confusing and very poorly worded. It gave me the impression that the Woodards might have been with a flight. With the news report showing them from Georgetown, I thought they may have been associated with some of the RV groups in that area and someone on the list could offer some basic facts around the incident. Condolences to friends and family of the Woodards. Bryan Jones -8 Pearland, Texas do not archive > >For some reason they used a picture of Greg Hale's RV8 in this article??? > >Jerry Calvert >Edmond Ok >RV6 N296JC res >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kirsten Lacy" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" > > > > here's another.... > > > > >http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=0263216f-575c-484c-bb44-a2 > > 3e943d3a1c&#d > > > > Kirsten Stugart Lacy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "RV_8 Pilot" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" > > > > > > Anyone have info on this? > > > > > > http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_1007_N.txt > > > > > > Bryan Jones -8 > > > Pearland, Texas Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:31 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski You will notice that they post pictures of all planes discussed. Most if not all pictures are file photos and not the actual plane involved in the article. The comment about the remains......I could not belive I read that, unbelievable. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:49 AM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Dynon --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Larry, simplest method is to put a magnet close to the D-10 and see if it moves. If not then the unit is listening to the EDC. That said, I have sent several suggestions that they add a flag feature to let the user always know they are getting accurate EDC data, rather then having a broken wire and the unit reverts back to the internal data source that is inaccurate but unknown. I expect this will show up as fixed in some later version, but these kinds of things can be very tough to work out, so will take time. I would also agree with Sam that working with Doug is a great experience. He's very realistic about the pros and cons of the product, but is always ready to make it better if that is humanly possible. W ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:01 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: New Integrated LED Position Lights & Landing Lights vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hi all... I just wanted to let you know that I have posted some pictures of my prototype integrated LED Position and Landing Lights that I will be adding to my product line... Bill Dube and I collaborated on these, and I think they are pretty damn cool! If you have already purchased a landing light kit from me, you will easily be able to upgrade to the new kit... I will also be offering a new strobe solution for Van's sheared tips. I have commissioned a company to produce a new strobe head and power supply that is comparable in performance to the leading "built for aviation" strobes and power supplies, but at a lower cost. Soon you will be able to buy a complete lighting package for your aircraft from CreativAir! Sorry for the advertisement, but I am excited about the new lights and just wanted to let you all know... If you can make to Copperstate, I will be there on Saturday, and will also be a Las Cruces. See you there! http://www.creativair.com -Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com
Hi all...
 
I just wanted to let you know that I have posted some pictures of my prototype integrated LED Position and Landing Lights that I will be adding to my product line...  Bill Dube and I collaborated on these, and I think they are pretty damn cool!
 
If you have already purchased a landing light kit from me, you will easily be able to upgrade to the new kit...
 
I will also be offering a new strobe solution for Van's sheared tips.  I have commissioned a company to produce a new strobe head and power supply that is comparable in performance to the leading "built for aviation" strobes and power supplies, but at a lower cost.  Soon you will be able to buy a complete lighting package for your aircraft from CreativAir!
 
Sorry for the advertisement, but I am excited about the new lights and just wanted to let you all know...
 
If you can make to Copperstate, I will be there on Saturday, and will also be a Las Cruces.  See you there!
 
 
 
 
 
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:46 AM PST US From: "Eustace Bowhay" Subject: Re: RV-List: Maximizing Range --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" As I recall Jon Johanson used around 55% for best range. One of his longest flight's was from Hawaii to California, 15.3 hours. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Maximizing Range > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > Hi John, > > A lot depends on your particular RV and how it's configured. Mainly, Fixed > Pitch vs Constant Speed. The traditional formula of altitude for 75% power > at full throttle doesn't necessarily apply. This isn't always the way to > achieve "econ" cruise. > > I'll keep this short, since a bunch of C/S guys can givey ou their specs, > but here's mine. > > IO-360 (180hp) Fixed Pitch, 85". I can run the RPM past 2700 at any > altitude to 15,000 feet (I haven't had O2 to try above that). As a result, > I usually fly around at a lot less, around 2400. At 2700 I can zip along at > 195-200mph, but I "sip" 10-11gph. At 2400, I can lope along at 170-175mph, > and drink only 7.8-8gph. If I slow down to 160 I can get the burn down to > 6.9-7.4gph. Quick math tells you the slower I go, the further I can go, but > like most RV'ers I'm impatient, so I usually choose 170mph and 8gph. > > Gives me lots of distance in 3.5-4hrs (+reserve), which is just about all my > bladder and butt really are comfortable with. > > Someone of the C/S guys have done extensive studies on engine parameters, > fuel burn, MP, speed, etc.. would give you a much better and accurate answer > than my "seat of the pants" recording! > > Hope this helps, > Stein Bruch > RV6's, Minneapolis > http://www.steinair.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Maximizing Range > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John" > > I have been pondering how to operate an RV to maximize range without adding > more fuel tank capacity or slowing down to really slow speeds. In the > archives I ran across the admonition, "Optimum altitude (for cruising) > equals the height where full throttle provides the desired cruise RPM" (or > words to that effect.) > > Can someone with more aeronautical knowledge than I have comment on this > 'wisdom.' > > John > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:41 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon mag update --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Larry Bowen wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > >> "Turns out I had a magnetometer that did not have the factory > calibration data onboard its memory chip." > > How was this determined? How can other customers be assured they don't > have the same problem? Larry, the troubleshooting process was a rather drawn out process because the basic assumptions that were made assumed a problem with my installation. :-) After repeated efforts to verify the alignment of the module, running the calibration routine *numerous* times, and making sure there was no ferrous interference by using a compass, (I nearly wore out the screws on the emp fairing) Dynon requested I email the files that are generated during the field calibration process. Upon examination of the files, they could tell the factory calibration data was not in the mag. I suspect steps have been taken to reduce the chance of this reoccurring, and I think the Dynon guys would now be quicker to pick up on this possibility. This and an EMI issue with the mag was apparently a learning process for *all* involved. If you install the mag and it calibrates readily, you have a good mag. The sick one I had was very inconsistent and would show variable and large errors. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:10 AM PST US From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: RE: RV-List: G meter and turn coordinator(long) --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" I appreciate the price comparison, but I think price plays a small role in the decision making process for selecting an instrument. I think the Dynon is a great instrument, but as others have pointed out there may be too much stuff packed in there. That's one of the reasons I chose a different AOA. I'm considering a separate G meter for similar reasons, readability and audible alarm capability. As another update on the DA-55 Digital G meter. I received a reply from the Manufacturer. It's quoted below: The DA-55 is no longer in production and the company (EZE Instruments) was completely restructured. As we are speaking, however, a new model is in production, the RDA-56. I attach the raw manual for your info. As soon as delivery is in progress, the web site will be reactivated. If anybody wants a copy of the raw manual they sent let me know. It looks very similar to the previous instrument except it will display +/-25g instead of +15g and -10g. It also has more storage capacity. Ken ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mickey Coggins >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" >> >>... >> >>Anybody know of other digital G meters? > >The Dynon includes a digital G meter, and a lot of >other stuff. To help me quantify the value of >the Dynon, I did a little comparison of Dynon vs. >"cheap" traditional instruments, and put it here >on my website, if you have any interest. > >http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20031009110109367 > > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:10 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: Integrated LED Position Lights --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube I've been working with Bill VonDane and we have developed a nifty LED Position Light set-up that integrates directly with his wingtip landing light kit. The fiberglass epoxy LED Position Light circuit board takes the place of the mounting plate for the CreativAir landing lights. Take a peek at the prototypes: http://www.creativair.com/exnav/index.htm Bill has these on his RV-8 and will be showing them off at Copper State this weekend. Keep in mind tat these are prototypes, the production units might looks slightly different. It is very likely that we will stick with the surface-mount components that you see on the prototypes, but they will likely be mounted remotely, or on the back of the board. (I kind of like the components exposed for the "high-tech" look, but others seem to like the regulators hidden.) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:42 AM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior Jerry Calvert wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" > > For some reason they used a picture of Greg Hale's RV8 in this article??? I can take a tiny bit of blame for that... They originally had a photo of Bryan Carr's (also very pretty) RV-8 there, that I took at a fly-in here in BC. I sent Aero-news an email requesting that either I be credited for the photo or that it be removed. I guess Greg Hale's was just another photo he had handy. Aero-news.net claimed my photo was "just something someone sent in." What nobody has pointed out, surprisingly, is that the three-view that's attached to the article is for an RV-7, not an RV-8. Rob Prior AirFrame Aircraft Portraits www.airframe.ca ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:23 AM PST US From: Clay R Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding their story: >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of the couple to say their remains were scattered about the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a student new to the world of journalism. >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it implies that this is the airplane that crashed. ---------- I then received the following two replies! Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 is a FILE PHOTO. As for the style, we have a number of writers here, each with his own. I didn't write this story; but my policy is to not interfere, as long as the facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this horrible tragedy. Tim Kern Senior Editor, The writer is a well-known and credentialed network news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to remember that few accidents do not. The facts were widely reported in other media, as well, and your asking any member of the aviation media to bury its head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) would be both irresponsible as well as less than factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots will read this, get the message, and get their acts together. Every one of these we see only makes us more determined to fly safer and more competently. BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, and is in fact, the same model as that which crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to tell us to remove it? Jim ---------- I then replied to the first reply with the following: MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't mean that the photo is someone else's plane. Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to include a photo of type... make it a generic looking one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his house. Including the author's name would be a benefit to your readers too. There should be some accountability. ----- Now I know the kind of people that are running Aero-News network. --Clay __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:29 AM PST US From: N13eer@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon G feature --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com Larry Wrote: I've noticed that I can reset the G-meter on the Dynon, power it off,back on, then the min G always reads "2.0". Is this a bug or a featureI don't understand. I'm using the latest software version. Larry, How are you powering the unit off? I found that if you use the power button (left most button for 2 seconds) rather than just killing power, the Dynon does a much more orderly shutdown. I think you "2.0" may be a value stored in memory and using the power down button will rewrite to the memory and take care of your problem. Alan Kritzman Cedar Rapids, IA RV-8, Loving my Dynon ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:11 AM PST US From: "Boss" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Boss" AND my lettor to the editor: What message were you trying to deliver.? That people die in airplane crashes? I,ve known that since a P-47 Crashed behind the house just outside of Gulfport Mississippi in 1942. You do not need to publish GORY details and offend the family or the general public. That Is INSENSATIVE and IRRESPONSIBLE. Both the editor and the journalist need to be repremanded severely. What you think is irrelevant. It is what the public thinks and is willing to tolerate... certainaly not what you think journalism to be. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay R" Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > their story: > > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > the couple to say their remains were scattered about > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > student new to the world of journalism. > > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > ---------- > > I then received the following two replies! > > > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > is a FILE PHOTO. > > As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > each with his own. I > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > interfere, as long as the > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > horrible tragedy. > > Tim Kern > Senior Editor, > > > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > widely reported in other media, as well, and your > asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > would be both irresponsible as well as less than > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > will read this, get the message, and get their acts > together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > determined to fly safer and more competently. > > BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > and is in fact, the same model as that which > crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > tell us to remove it? > > Jim > > ---------- > > I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > house. > > Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > readers too. There should be some accountability. > > ----- > > Now I know the kind of people that are running > Aero-News network. > > --Clay > > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:20 AM PST US From: "Robert E. Newhall II" Subject: RV-List: Looking for Hobby Air respirator --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert E. Newhall II" Does anyone have a Hobby Air respirator that they'd like to part with? Bob Newhall RV7 Finishing Boulder, CO 303.819.1482 __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:45 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News. http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1471822 Your beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News. Sam Buchanan ================== Clay R wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > their story: > > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > the couple to say their remains were scattered about > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > student new to the world of journalism. > > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > ---------- > > I then received the following two replies! > > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > is a FILE PHOTO. > > As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > each with his own. I > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > interfere, as long as the > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > horrible tragedy. > > Tim Kern > Senior Editor, > > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > widely reported in other media, as well, and your > asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > would be both irresponsible as well as less than > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > will read this, get the message, and get their acts > together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > determined to fly safer and more competently. > > BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > and is in fact, the same model as that which > crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > tell us to remove it? > > Jim > > ---------- > > I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > house. > > Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > readers too. There should be some accountability. > > ----- > > Now I know the kind of people that are running > Aero-News network. > > --Clay > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:50 PM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: Maximizing Range --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes Fly at maximum L/D? K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) At 07:01 PM 10/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "John" > >I have been pondering how to operate an RV to maximize range ....... ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:22 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: V belt question --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" > > I have Van's 35 amp alternator. > The pulley on it is narrower than the groove on Lycoming's flywheel. > > When I put a belt on, it will set nicely down into the Lycoming but sits high in > the alternator pulley perhaps only half down into it. > > Any ideas about this. > > Will it "seat in" after running or should I try to get a new pulley now that > matches the Lycoming flywheel pulley groove? > > It looks to me like there is a pretty good mismatch in the 35 amp Pulley. > I found a Gates belt at a local auto/lawn equipment supply store that has worked nicely for 500+ hrs on my Vans alternator. I don't have the number with me, but it is a power takeoff belt that is usually used for driving the mower on a lawn tractor. The belt is green in color, fits perfectly on the alternator pulley, and rides down in the groove some on the flywheel. I was told this belt was more ruggedly built for the power application than many conventional belts. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 515 hrs) http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:40 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon G feature --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Yeah, I hold the button for two seconds and it shuts off. Or, if I throw thow the avionics master it also shuts down after counting down from 30 seconds using the internal battery. The whole time the unit is just sitting in the panel, experiencing nothing but 1 G. So nobody else is seeing this? Swell.... - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: N13eer@aol.com [mailto:N13eer@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:11 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon G feature > > > --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com > > Larry Wrote: > I've noticed that I can reset the G-meter on the Dynon, power > it off,back on, then the min G always reads "2.0". Is this a > bug or a featureI don't understand. I'm using the latest > software version. > > Larry, > How are you powering the unit off? I found that if you use > the power button (left most button for 2 seconds) rather than > just killing power, the Dynon does a much more orderly > shutdown. I think you "2.0" may be a value stored in memory > and using the power down button will rewrite to the memory > and take care of your problem. Alan Kritzman Cedar Rapids, IA > RV-8, Loving my Dynon > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:20 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Maximizing Range --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, kempthornes wrote: > Fly at maximum L/D? Hal: That's correct when considering only the aerodynamics. But in practice, at least with an RV, I think you'll find that max. L/D is a bit too slow, because it will put the engine and prop at low efficiency operating points. Your best range will be faster than max. L/D. And then you have to consider wind. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:49 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Maximizing Range --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > Fly at maximum L/D? > > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne Interesting thought, Hal. That IS where the minimum power is needed. However, the engine efficiency is probably pretty crummy at that low power setting. (Also, mine would overheat at that speed, something like 80 knots.) To get maximum range, the efficiency of the fuel burned must compromise with the power needed. If I had to guess, best range would be somewhere in the 100 - 120 kias range, but the number of hours one would be in the cockpit at max endurance wouldn't be fun. Sounds like a fun series of tests to try. One of the biggest factors in those tests would be leaning. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 384 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:01 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" It seems to me; If in fact the story was "lifted" 'as is' from another source? it just makes matters that much worse. Good journalism should filter out the crude nature of such a report, not just pass it on without full scrutiny as to accuracy of facts and sensitivity of the contents. In my mind this is one case where the messenger deserves the just as much harsh criticism as the chosen information source. Jim in Kelowna do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in > the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the > original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News. > > http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1471822 > > Your beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News. > > Sam Buchanan > > ================== > > Clay R wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > > > I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > > their story: > > > > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > > in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > > >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > > you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > > the couple to say their remains were scattered about > > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > > student new to the world of journalism. > > > > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > > (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > > implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > > > ---------- > > > > I then received the following two replies! > > > > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > > is a FILE PHOTO. > > > > As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > > each with his own. I > > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > > interfere, as long as the > > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > > > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > > horrible tragedy. > > > > Tim Kern > > Senior Editor, > > > > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > > photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > > remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > > widely reported in other media, as well, and your > > asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > > would be both irresponsible as well as less than > > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > > will read this, get the message, and get their acts > > together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > > determined to fly safer and more competently. > > > > BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > > and is in fact, the same model as that which > > crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > > tell us to remove it? > > > > Jim > > > > ---------- > > > > I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > > > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > > ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > > POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > > mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > > > Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > > with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > > house. > > > > Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > > readers too. There should be some accountability. > > > > ----- > > > > Now I know the kind of people that are running > > Aero-News network. > > > > --Clay > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:06 PM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: V belt question --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Sam Buchanan wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" > > > > I have Van's 35 amp alternator. > > The pulley on it is narrower than the groove on Lycoming's flywheel. > > > > When I put a belt on, it will set nicely down into the Lycoming but sits high in > > the alternator pulley perhaps only half down into it. > > > > Any ideas about this. > > > > Will it "seat in" after running or should I try to get a new pulley now that > > matches the Lycoming flywheel pulley groove? > > > > It looks to me like there is a pretty good mismatch in the 35 amp Pulley. > > > > I found a Gates belt at a local auto/lawn equipment supply store that > has worked nicely for 500+ hrs on my Vans alternator. I don't have the > number with me, but it is a power takeoff belt that is usually used for > driving the mower on a lawn tractor. The belt is green in color, fits > perfectly on the alternator pulley, and rides down in the groove some on > the flywheel. I was told this belt was more ruggedly built for the power > application than many conventional belts. > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 515 hrs) Sam, next time you get into your cowl, look up numbers on the belt if you dont mind. I can get cross refernces to it if I get a number. Tnx, Phil Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:23 PM PST US From: "Phil Birkelbach" Subject: Re: RV-List: G meter and turn coordinator(long) --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" You didn't add the cost of the vacuum system that would be required to get those cheap gyros to spin. That would tip the scales the other way. Godspeed, Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RE: RV-List: G meter and turn coordinator(long) > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > > > >... > > > >Anybody know of other digital G meters? > > The Dynon includes a digital G meter, and a lot of > other stuff. To help me quantify the value of > the Dynon, I did a little comparison of Dynon vs. > "cheap" traditional instruments, and put it here > on my website, if you have any interest. > > http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20031009110109367 > > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:59 PM PST US From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" No intention to flame... I believe the purpose of journalism is to report the facts. Not filter the facts based upon what one person or group of individuals finds offensive. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" It seems to me; If in fact the story was "lifted" 'as is' from another source? it just makes matters that much worse. Good journalism should filter out the crude nature of such a report, not just pass it on without full scrutiny as to accuracy of facts and sensitivity of the contents. In my mind this is one case where the messenger deserves the just as much harsh criticism as the chosen information source. Jim in Kelowna do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in > the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the > original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News. > > http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1471822 > > Your beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News. > > Sam Buchanan > > ================== > > Clay R wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > > > I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > > their story: > > > > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > > in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > > >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > > you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > > the couple to say their remains were scattered about > > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > > student new to the world of journalism. > > > > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > > (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > > implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > > > ---------- > > > > I then received the following two replies! > > > > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > > is a FILE PHOTO. > > > > As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > > each with his own. I > > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > > interfere, as long as the > > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > > > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > > horrible tragedy. > > > > Tim Kern > > Senior Editor, > > > > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > > photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > > remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > > widely reported in other media, as well, and your > > asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > > would be both irresponsible as well as less than > > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > > will read this, get the message, and get their acts > > together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > > determined to fly safer and more competently. > > > > BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > > and is in fact, the same model as that which > > crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > > tell us to remove it? > > > > Jim > > > > ---------- > > > > I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > > > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > > ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > > POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > > mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > > > Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > > with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > > house. > > > > Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > > readers too. There should be some accountability. > > > > ----- > > > > Now I know the kind of people that are running > > Aero-News network. > > > > --Clay > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:48 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer What you all need to remember is that Jim Campbell is the one running Aero-News He is a low life from the word go IMO. He used to publish the US Aviator magazine that went belly up and left a lot of people with no magazine that had subscribed. He was at Arlington one year taking subscriptions knowing he was going bankrupt. He has tried to sue all kinds of people that disagree with him. DO NOT ARCHIVE Clay R wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > >I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding >their story: > > > >>What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash >> >> >in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > > >>Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe >> >> >you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of >the couple to say their remains were scattered about >the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a >student new to the world of journalism. > > > >>Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV >> >> >(I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it >implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > >---------- > >I then received the following two replies! > > >Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 >is a FILE PHOTO. > >As for the style, we have a number of writers here, >each with his own. I >didn't write this story; but my policy is to not >interfere, as long as the >facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > >Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this >horrible tragedy. > >Tim Kern >Senior Editor, > > >The writer is a well-known and credentialed network >news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted >(even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the >photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to >remember that few accidents do not. The facts were >widely reported in other media, as well, and your >asking any member of the aviation media to bury its >head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) >would be both irresponsible as well as less than >factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots >will read this, get the message, and get their acts >together. Every one of these we see only makes us more >determined to fly safer and more competently. > >BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, >and is in fact, the same model as that which >crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to >tell us to remove it? > >Jim > >---------- > >I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > >MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE >ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD >POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't >mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > >Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially >with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the >Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT >airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to >include a photo of type... make it a generic looking >one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! >That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his >house. > >Including the author's name would be a benefit to your >readers too. There should be some accountability. > >----- > >Now I know the kind of people that are running >Aero-News network. > >--Clay > > >__________________________________ > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:44 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Maximizing Range From: "David.vonLinsowe" --> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" John, Along with considering the most efficient power setting and altitude, two other items should come into play. Winds aloft and flying in a straight line. It may sound absurd, but using an autopilot on a long cross country can in some cases (depends on how prone you are to wondering) add a fair amount of distance to a tank of fuel. At the higher flight levels we can use, winds can made a huge difference! During a recent descent from 16k the gps was showing 301 mph! Wish I really was traveling in that direction and not just flying squares for prop testing. Dave From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Subject: RV-List: Maximizing Range --> RV-List message posted by: "John" I have been pondering how to operate an RV to maximize range without adding more fuel tank capacity or slowing down to really slow speeds. In the archives I ran across the admonition, "Optimum altitude (for cruising) equals the height where full throttle provides the desired cruise RPM" (or words to that effect.) Can someone with more aeronautical knowledge than I have comment on this 'wisdom.' John ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:56 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: ECI TITAN Engine From: "Dennis Parker" --> RV-List message posted by: "Dennis Parker" Does anyone have experience or comments on the ECI TITAN Engine offering Thanks Dennis Parker RV7QB in Progress DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:09 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV List From: smoothweasel@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com Hello I will be around Grenada MS on Sat. Oct. 11. Is there anyone in this area that has a Rv (project or completed) That I could see? I am building a -4 and would like to see how some things are completed. If anyone would have the time, please let me know off line or call. Joel Graber RV-4 finishing Brooksville Ms ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:00 PM PST US type="multipart/alternative"; From: "Kirsten Lacy" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIG6G0000000000000 --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIBHK0000000000000 "Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots will read this, get the message, and get their acts together." Please, please, tell me you are not suggesting to Mr. Woodard's family an= d friends that he did not have his act together. This editor can couch it any way he wishes, it is their website, after al= l, but it is still nothing but shoddy reporting and lurid sensationalism. Ye= s, we would expect the media to go for the jugular, but not a site that is purported to support the aviation community. If anything, I would think t= hat such a site would take a stand on the aviation community's behalf and renounce the crap that is "widely reported in other media". Kirsten Stugart Lacy Diana Stugart Voytek -------Original Message------- From: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" No intention to flame... I believe the purpose of journalism is to report the facts. Not filter th= e facts based upon what one person or group of individuals finds offensive.= do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" It seems to me; If in fact the story was "lifted" 'as is' from another source? it just ma= kes matters that much worse. Good journalism should filter out the crude nature of such a report, not just pass it on without full scrutiny as to accuracy of facts and sensitivity of the contents. In my mind this is one case where the messenger deserves the just as much= harsh criticism as the chosen information source. Jim in Kelowna do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in > the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the > original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News. > > http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S1471822 > > Your beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News. > > Sam Buchanan > > > > Clay R wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > > > I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > > their story: > > > > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > > in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > > >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > > you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > > the couple to say their remains were scattered about > > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > > student new to the world of journalism. > > > > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > > (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > > implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > > > ---------- > > > > I then received the following two replies! > > > > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > > is a FILE PHOTO. > > > > As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > > each with his own. I > > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > > interfere, as long as the > > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > > > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > > horrible tragedy. > > > > Tim Kern > > Senior Editor, > > > > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > > photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > > remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > > widely reported in other media, as well, and your > > asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > > would be both irresponsible as well as less than > > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > > will read this, get the message, and get their acts > > together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > > determined to fly safer and more competently. > > > > BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > > and is in fact, the same model as that which > > crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > > tell us to remove it? > > > > Jim > > > > ---------- > > > > I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > > > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > > ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > > POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > > mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > > > Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > > with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > > house. > > > > Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > > readers too. There should be some accountability. > > > > ----- > > > > Now I know the kind of people that are running > > Aero-News network. > > > > --Clay > > > > = = rt = = --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIBHK0000000000000 1">
"Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots will read this, ge= t the message, and get their acts together." 
Pleas= e, please, tell me you are not suggesting to Mr. Woodard's family and fri= ends that he did not have his act together.
This editor can couch it any way he wishes, it is their website, after a= ll, but it is still nothing but shoddy reporting and lurid sensationalism= Yes, we would expect the media to go for the jugular, but not a site that is purported to support the aviation community. If anything, I would think that such a site would take a stand on the aviation communi= ty's behalf and renounce the crap that is "widely reported in other media= ".
 
Kirst= en Stugart Lacy
Diana= Stugart Voytek




 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Thursday, Oc= tober 09, 2003 08:10:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV-Li= st: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX
 
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>

No int= ention to flame...

I believe the purpose of journalism is to repor= t the facts. Not filter the
facts based upon what one person or group of individuals finds offensive.

do not archive

-----Origina= l Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronic= s.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Acci= dent in N TX


--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" &l= t;jjewell@telus.net>

I= t seems to me;

If in fact the story was "lifted" 'as is' from anot= her source? it just makes
matters that much worse.
Good journalism should filter out the crude nature of such a report, not
just pass it on without full scrutiny as to accuracy of facts and
sensitivity of th= e contents.
In my mind this is one case where the messenger deserves t= he just as much
harsh criticism as the chosen information source.
<= BR>Jim in Kelowna

do not archive

----- Original Message ---= --
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hi= waay.net>
To: <rv-l= ist@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N= TX


> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in
= > the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the<= BR>> original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News.>
> http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S1471822
>
> Y= our beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News.
>
> Sam Buchana= n
>
> <= BR>>
> Clay R wrote:
> >
> > --> RV-List me= ssage posted by: Clay R <clayr_5= 5@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I wrote an email to the edi= tor at Aero-news regarding
> > their story:
> >
>= > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash
> &g= t; in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8)
> > >Not only is the story poorly w= ritten, I can't believe
> > you'd be so insensitive to the famil= y and friends of
> > the couple to say their remains were scatte= red about
> > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a<= BR>> > student new to the world of journalism.
> >
>= > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV
> &g= t; (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it
> > impl= ies that this is the airplane that crashed.
> >
> > ---= -------
> >
> > I then received the following two repli= es!
> >
> > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8
> > is a FILE PHOTO.
> >
> > As fo= r the style, we have a number of writers here,
> > each with his= own. I
> > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not
= > > interfere, as long as the
> > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are.
> >
> > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this
> > horrible tragedy.
> >
> > Tim Kern
> > Senior Editor,
> >
&g= t; > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network
> > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted
> > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the
> > photo is...= if the accident seems gory, you have to
> > remember that few a= ccidents do not. The facts were
> > widely reported in other med= ia, as well, and your
> > asking any member of the aviation medi= a to bury its
> > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do= so)
> > would be both irresponsible as well as less than
>= ; > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots
> >= ; will read this, get the message, and get their acts
> > togeth= er. Every one of these we see only makes us more
> > determined to fly safer and more competently.
> >
> > BTW, the pic= ture belongs to us, is used accurately,
> > and is in fact, the same model as that which
> > crashed... so I wonder what gives y= ou the right to
> > tell us to remove it?
> >
> &= gt; Jim
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > I then replied to the first reply with the following:
> >
> > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE
> > ACCI= DENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD
> > POSSIBLY BE AT= THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't
> > mean that the photo i= s someone else's plane.
> >
> > Putting a photo of some= one else's airplane (especially
> > with a distinctive, one of a= kind paint job like the
> > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to= believe THAT
> > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you wan= t to
> > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking> > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot!
> > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his
> > h= ouse.
> >
> > Including the author's name would be a be= nefit to your
> > readers too. There should be some accountabili= ty.
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Now I know the kind of people that are running
> > Aero-News network.
&g= = = = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com/trouble= = = SUBSCRIBE: http://www.m= tronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm">http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm= www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list">http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list= A href"http://www.matronics.com/archives">http://www.matronics.com/arc= href"http://www.matronics.com/rv-list">http://www.matronics.com/rv-li= ef"http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com/t= = =


<= BR>

.
______________________= ______________________________
<= A href"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id309&lang9">=   IncrediMail - Email has= finally evolved - = Click Here --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIBHK0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIG6G0000000000000 name="IMSTP.gif" R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIG6G0000000000000-- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:33 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Rv List From: smoothweasel@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com > I am building a -4 and would like to > see how some things are completed. If anyone would > have the time, please let me know off line or call. sorry 662 574 5210 Joel Graber RV-4 finishing Brooksville Ms ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:29 PM PST US From: "Ron Walker" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" Now I see why I have not seen an issue an issue in over 5 yrs of waiting ! Ron do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > What you all need to remember is that Jim Campbell is the one running > Aero-News > He is a low life from the word go IMO. He used to publish the US Aviator > magazine that went > belly up and left a lot of people with no magazine that had subscribed. > He was at Arlington > one year taking subscriptions knowing he was going bankrupt. He has > tried to sue all kinds > of people that disagree with him. > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Clay R wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > > >I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > >their story: > > > > > > > >>What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > >> > >> > >in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > > > > > >>Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > >> > >> > >you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > >the couple to say their remains were scattered about > >the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > >student new to the world of journalism. > > > > > > > >>Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > >> > >> > >(I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > >implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > > >---------- > > > >I then received the following two replies! > > > > > >Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > >is a FILE PHOTO. > > > >As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > >each with his own. I > >didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > >interfere, as long as the > >facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > > >Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > >horrible tragedy. > > > >Tim Kern > >Senior Editor, > > > > > >The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > >news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > >(even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > >photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > >remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > >widely reported in other media, as well, and your > >asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > >head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > >would be both irresponsible as well as less than > >factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > >will read this, get the message, and get their acts > >together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > >determined to fly safer and more competently. > > > >BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > >and is in fact, the same model as that which > >crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > >tell us to remove it? > > > >Jim > > > >---------- > > > >I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > > > > >MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > >ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > >POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > >mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > > >Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > >with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > >Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > >airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > >include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > >one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > >That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > >house. > > > >Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > >readers too. There should be some accountability. > > > >----- > > > >Now I know the kind of people that are running > >Aero-News network. > > > >--Clay > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:55 PM PST US From: "Bob Hassel" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" I was surprised as anyone at how it was reported. My point was I don't believe that news should filter what they are reporting. I also believe that there is a reasonable way to report the news. I have in the past not posted pictures on my web site that I have of post accidents because I was sensitive to the feelings of those involved. It was my website, my choice and my decision. However, I was not responsible for reporting the news. My comment was that I don't believe the news should be filtered which is much different than the professionalism with which that news is reported. I fear that too often in this day and age we are given a filtered purified version meant to appease in the media or even worse a sensationalized version meant to stir the couch potato's, instead of the facts as they truly exist. In this case, I believe the reporting may have been over the edge of what was necessary to report the tragedy. However, I am fearful of living in a society that filtered what we heard. Who decides what is worth hearing or saying or seeing. It is my right to decide what is acceptable to me. In the end it is my choice whether or not I use that web site as a source of news or put validity in what they say. I think that's all any of us can decide. Do I bother to click my mouse and support that site or not. We are all free (for now) to exercise that freedom of choice. One way or another we can vote with our mice. As I said it was not my intent to flame or inflame. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kirsten Lacy Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIG6G0000000000000 --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIBHK0000000000000 "Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots will read this, get the message, and get their acts together." Please, please, tell me you are not suggesting to Mr. Woodard's family an= d friends that he did not have his act together. This editor can couch it any way he wishes, it is their website, after al= l, but it is still nothing but shoddy reporting and lurid sensationalism. Ye= s, we would expect the media to go for the jugular, but not a site that is purported to support the aviation community. If anything, I would think t= hat such a site would take a stand on the aviation community's behalf and renounce the crap that is "widely reported in other media". Kirsten Stugart Lacy Diana Stugart Voytek -------Original Message------- From: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" No intention to flame... I believe the purpose of journalism is to report the facts. Not filter th= e facts based upon what one person or group of individuals finds offensive.= do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" It seems to me; If in fact the story was "lifted" 'as is' from another source? it just ma= kes matters that much worse. Good journalism should filter out the crude nature of such a report, not just pass it on without full scrutiny as to accuracy of facts and sensitivity of the contents. In my mind this is one case where the messenger deserves the just as much= harsh criticism as the chosen information source. Jim in Kelowna do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in > the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the > original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News. > > http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S1471822 > > Your beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News. > > Sam Buchanan > > > Clay R wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Clay R > > > > I wrote an email to the editor at Aero-news regarding > > their story: > > > > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash > > in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8) > > >Not only is the story poorly written, I can't believe > > you'd be so insensitive to the family and friends of > > the couple to say their remains were scattered about > > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a > > student new to the world of journalism. > > > > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV > > (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it > > implies that this is the airplane that crashed. > > > > ---------- > > > > I then received the following two replies! > > > > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8 > > is a FILE PHOTO. > > > > As for the style, we have a number of writers here, > > each with his own. I > > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not > > interfere, as long as the > > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are. > > > > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this > > horrible tragedy. > > > > Tim Kern > > Senior Editor, > > > > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network > > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted > > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the > > photo is... if the accident seems gory, you have to > > remember that few accidents do not. The facts were > > widely reported in other media, as well, and your > > asking any member of the aviation media to bury its > > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do so) > > would be both irresponsible as well as less than > > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots > > will read this, get the message, and get their acts > > together. Every one of these we see only makes us more > > determined to fly safer and more competently. > > > > BTW, the picture belongs to us, is used accurately, > > and is in fact, the same model as that which > > crashed... so I wonder what gives you the right to > > tell us to remove it? > > > > Jim > > > > ---------- > > > > I then replied to the first reply with the following: > > > > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE > > ACCIDENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD > > POSSIBLY BE AT THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't > > mean that the photo is someone else's plane. > > > > Putting a photo of someone else's airplane (especially > > with a distinctive, one of a kind paint job like the > > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to believe THAT > > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you want to > > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking > > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot! > > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his > > house. > > > > Including the author's name would be a benefit to your > > readers too. There should be some accountability. > > > > ----- > > > > Now I know the kind of people that are running > > Aero-News network. > > > > --Clay > > > > = = rt = = --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIBHK0000000000000 1">
"Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots will read this, ge= t the message, and get their acts together." 
Pleas= e, please, tell me you are not suggesting to Mr. Woodard's family and fri= ends that he did not have his act together.
This editor can couch it any way he wishes, it is their website, after a= ll, but it is still nothing but shoddy reporting and lurid sensationalism= Yes, we would expect the media to go for the jugular, but not a site that is purported to support the aviation community. If anything, I would think that such a site would take a stand on the aviation communi= ty's behalf and renounce the crap that is "widely reported in other media= ".
 
Kirst= en Stugart Lacy
Diana= Stugart Voytek




 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: Thursday, Oc= tober 09, 2003 08:10:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV-Li= st: Re: RV-8 Accident in N TX
 
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>

No int= ention to flame...

I believe the purpose of journalism is to repor= t the facts. Not filter the
facts based upon what one person or group of individuals finds offensive.

do not archive

-----Origina= l Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronic= s.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Acci= dent in N TX


--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" &l= t;jjewell@telus.net>

I= t seems to me;

If in fact the story was "lifted" 'as is' from anot= her source? it just makes
matters that much worse.
Good journalism should filter out the crude nature of such a report, not
just pass it on without full scrutiny as to accuracy of facts and
sensitivity of th= e contents.
In my mind this is one case where the messenger deserves t= he just as much
harsh criticism as the chosen information source.
<= BR>Jim in Kelowna

do not archive

----- Original Message ---= --
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hi= waay.net>
To: <rv-l= ist@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Accident in N= TX


> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> The Aero-News story was lifted from a KLTV report that was written in
= > the locality of the accident. The phrasing you reference was in the<= BR>> original article on KLTV's web site, not original to Aero-News.>
> http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S1471822
>
> Y= our beef is with a TV station, not Aero-News.
>
> Sam Buchana= n
>
> <= BR>>
> Clay R wrote:
> >
> > --> RV-List me= ssage posted by: Clay R <clayr_5= 5@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I wrote an email to the edi= tor at Aero-news regarding
> > their story:
> >
>= > >What a terrible story you published on the RV8 crash
> &g= t; in Texas. (Wed, Oct 8)
> > >Not only is the story poorly w= ritten, I can't believe
> > you'd be so insensitive to the famil= y and friends of
> > the couple to say their remains were scatte= red about
> > the crash site. Sounds like this was written by a<= BR>> > student new to the world of journalism.
> >
>= > >Also, please REMOVE the picture of someone else's RV
> &g= t; (I believe he's from Tulsa) from the story.... as it
> > impl= ies that this is the airplane that crashed.
> >
> > ---= -------
> >
> > I then received the following two repli= es!
> >
> > Note that the story clearly says the photo of the RV-8
> > is a FILE PHOTO.
> >
> > As fo= r the style, we have a number of writers here,
> > each with his= own. I
> > didn't write this story; but my policy is to not
= > > interfere, as long as the
> > facts are correct. From all appearances, they are.
> >
> > Thanks for reading; I hope others can learn from this
> > horrible tragedy.
> >
> > Tim Kern
> > Senior Editor,
> >
&g= t; > The writer is a well-known and credentialed network
> > news-writer. The file photo attribute is easily noted
> > (even paranthetically) and spells out clearly what the
> > photo is...= if the accident seems gory, you have to
> > remember that few a= ccidents do not. The facts were
> > widely reported in other med= ia, as well, and your
> > asking any member of the aviation medi= a to bury its
> > head in the sand (and expect us to actually do= so)
> > would be both irresponsible as well as less than
>= ; > factual. Accidents are awful... and I hope that pilots
> >= ; will read this, get the message, and get their acts
> > togeth= er. Every one of these we see only makes us more
> > determined to fly safer and more competently.
> >
> > BTW, the pic= ture belongs to us, is used accurately,
> > and is in fact, the same model as that which
> > crashed... so I wonder what gives y= ou the right to
> > tell us to remove it?
> >
> &= gt; Jim
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > I then replied to the first reply with the following:
> >
> > MOST READERS WILL ASSUME IT IS A FILE PHOTO OF THE
> > ACCI= DENT AIRPLANE. (THAT'S THE ONLY KIND IT COULD
> > POSSIBLY BE AT= THIS POINT) Saying FILE PHOTO doesn't
> > mean that the photo i= s someone else's plane.
> >
> > Putting a photo of some= one else's airplane (especially
> > with a distinctive, one of a= kind paint job like the
> > Tulsa RV8) will only lead people to= believe THAT
> > airplane crashed and is misleading. If you wan= t to
> > include a photo of type... make it a generic looking> > one that won't be identified with a particular pilot!
> > That poor guy is probably getting flowers sent to his
> > h= ouse.
> >
> > Including the author's name would be a be= nefit to your
> > readers too. There should be some accountabili= ty.
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Now I know the kind of people that are running
> > Aero-News network.
&g= = = = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com/trouble= = = SUBSCRIBE: http://www.m= tronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm">http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm= www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list">http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list= A href"http://www.matronics.com/archives">http://www.matronics.com/arc= href"http://www.matronics.com/rv-list">http://www.matronics.com/rv-li= ef"http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report">http://www.matronics.com/t= = =


<= BR>

.
______________________= ______________________________
<= A href"http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id309&lang9">=   IncrediMail - Email has= finally evolved - = Click Here --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIBHK0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIG6G0000000000000 name="IMSTP.gif" R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= --------------Boundary-00=_XCQIG6G0000000000000-- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:10 PM PST US From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" I've been following the posts on the digital G-meter that Spruce sells and is currently on back order. After many hours of research I had planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep looking. On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the wings can this be installed later? Thanks, Karie Daniel RV-7A QB Sammamish, WA.
I've been following the posts on the digital G-meter that Spruce sells and is currently on back order. After many hours of research I had planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep looking.
 
On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA http://www.angle-of-attac= k.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the wings can this be installed later?
 
Thanks,
Karie Daniel
RV-7A QB
Sammamish, WA.
________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:16 PM PST US From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" I think it will be much easier to do it before you close up the wings. I'm at this stage right now. I've drilled and mounted the ports and I will route the sensing tubes after I get the top skin riveted and before the bottom skin. You can by this AOA in two subkits. The "A" kit just gives you the sensing ports and plumbing and the "B" kit gives you the electronics. I've only purchased the "A" kit since I won't need the electronics for a while. Ken ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Karie Daniel" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > >I've been following the posts on the digital G-meter that Spruce sells >and is currently on back order. After many hours of research I had >planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep looking. > >On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA >http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final >panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the >wings can this be installed later? > >Thanks, >Karie Daniel >RV-7A QB >Sammamish, WA. > > > > > > >
I've been following the posts on the >digital >G-meter that Spruce sells and is currently on back order. After many >hours of >research I had planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep >looking.
>
>
On another note, I'm looking at >purchasing the AOA >href"http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm">http://www.angle-of-attac= >k.com/aoa.htmand >I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now >before >closing up the wings can this be installed later?
>
>
Thanks,
>
Karie Daniel
>
RV-7A QB
>
Sammamish, >WA.
> > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:55 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Karie, I think it would be a lot easier to do it before you close up the wings, but possible after. Terry RV-8A finishing Lake Forest Park, WA --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the wings can this be installed later? Thanks, Karie Daniel RV-7A QB Sammamish, WA. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:20 PM PST US From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" I wasn't aware that you could purchase the kit this way. Thanks for the info, this was really the last thing I had been debating before closing the wings up. I checked Vans and Spruce and they both seem to have just one part number for the kit. Who did you purchase from that sells the subkits? Thanks again, Karie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Simmons" <> Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > > > I think it will be much easier to do it before you close up the wings. I'm at this stage right now. I've drilled and mounted the ports and I will route the sensing tubes after I get the top skin riveted and before the bottom skin. > > You can by this AOA in two subkits. The "A" kit just gives you the sensing ports and plumbing and the "B" kit gives you the electronics. I've only purchased the "A" kit since I won't need the electronics for a while. > > Ken > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Karie Daniel" > Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:26:23 -0700 > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > > >I've been following the posts on the digital G-meter that Spruce sells > >and is currently on back order. After many hours of research I had > >planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep looking. > > > >On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA > >http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final > >panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the > >wings can this be installed later? > > > >Thanks, > >Karie Daniel > >RV-7A QB > >Sammamish, WA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
I've been following the posts on the > >digital > >G-meter that Spruce sells and is currently on back order. After many > >hours of > >research I had planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep > >looking.
> >
> >
On another note, I'm looking at > >purchasing the AOA > > >href"http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm">http://www.angle-of-attac= > >k.com/aoa.htmand > >I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now > >before > >closing up the wings can this be installed later?
> >
> >
Thanks,
> >
Karie Daniel
> >
RV-7A QB
> >
Sammamish, > >WA.
> > > > > >