Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:30 AM - Dead Stick Question non-RV (Doug Rozendaal)
2. 08:07 AM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Denis Walsh)
3. 08:17 AM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Tedd McHenry)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV ()
5. 09:48 AM - Re: Closing fiberglass Tips (N13eer@aol.com)
6. 10:15 AM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Kevin Horton)
7. 10:36 AM - Skytec flyweight starter glitch (Brian Denk)
8. 10:41 AM - Re: Closing fiberglass Tips (Rick Galati)
9. 11:00 AM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Rob Prior)
10. 11:26 AM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
11. 12:50 PM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Tom Gummo)
12. 01:58 PM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (Doug Rozendaal)
13. 03:58 PM - Re: Skytec flyweight starter glitch (Denis Walsh)
14. 06:07 PM - Re: Skytec flyweight starter glitch (Ron Walker)
15. 08:14 PM - tach signal switch for Grand Rapids Technology EIS engine monitor (C J Heitman)
16. 08:33 PM - Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV (DWAIN HARRIS)
17. 11:30 PM - Re: seats fabrics.. (j1j2h3@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
My apoligies for off-subject, but what better pool of knowledge??????
Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
I don't have a clue, Doug, but that certainly wouldn't keep me from
hazarding a guess!
The WWI rotary engines had no throttle, but rather a "kill switch" on the
stick. As I understand it the switch would kill the engine, and was used to
intermittently kill the ignition to allow power reductions.
So if the engine quit, you would have to make a "dead stick" landing.
Denis
> From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:29:16 -0500
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Dead Stick Question non-RV
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> My apoligies for off-subject, but what better pool of knowledge??????
>
> Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
> Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
I think there was a discussion of this on one of the lists not long ago, but I
didn't find anything in the archives.
Could it have to do with hydraulically boosted controls not being available
after an engine failure? Or is it older than that?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Tedd,
. . . It is probably much, much older than boosted controls.
Sorry Doug,
. . . I don't have a much better explanation either, but the kill switch scenario
from WW-1 sounds plausible to me.
Konrad
Do not archive
Could it have to do with hydraulically boosted controls not being available
after an engine failure? Or is it older than that?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Closing fiberglass Tips |
--> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com
I closed my aft facing tips after I had them installed. I found the tip to be
flimsy and was afraid someone would give them a squeeze and crack my paint.
What I did to close them was to lay up a couple layers of cloth flat over wax paper
on my work bench. After it cured I cuts pieces to fit and used epoxie to
glue them in place. Took about a hour to do all three.
Hope this helps,
Alan Kritzman
RV-8
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
>> Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
>
>I think there was a discussion of this on one of the lists not long ago, but I
>didn't find anything in the archives.
>
>Could it have to do with hydraulically boosted controls not being available
>after an engine failure? Or is it older than that?
>
>Tedd McHenry
According the Merriam-Webster, the term dates to about 1917, so it
wouldn't be a flight control reference.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=dead-stick
The story I heard, many years ago, is that the word "stick" refers to
the propeller. So a dead-stick landing is one where the prop is
dead, or not turning. But I have no idea whether this is fact or
fiction.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Skytec flyweight starter glitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Listers,
I just completed the fourth condition inspection on my RV8 and encountered a
funky starter problem. After I had everything finished up, test ran the
engine (needed a cylinder replacement), cowled it up, and prepared to go
fly. So, here I am, jazzed up to go fly after four weeks of "the annual
from hell", I push the starter button and....and....nothing but a solenoid
click.
After much grumbling, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, I pulled the cowling
and the starter. I had already checked the power through the solenoid at
the firewall to the starter so I knew it was good. I took the solenoid off
the starter and found it to be quite full of black carbon, dirt, gunk,
detritus, gnat feces and whatever it has ingested after about three years of
use. Out came a can of my favorite shop slop: carb cleaner. I hosed off
the solenoid piston and much foul blackness issued forth until it started to
flow clear. The solenoid was reinstalled, and it seems to be much happer
now. I'm going flying again midweek just to see if it's really good to go
or not. The motor cranks like mad so I doubt that has anything to do with
the problem. That contactor was really loaded up with crud and didn't slide
freely inside the coil body.
So, you may want to add this bit of splendor to your inspections.
Have a stellar day and see ya at LOE3.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Closing fiberglass Tips |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
All I did was cut some slightly oversize .025 aluminum stock out with a pair of
scissors, sanded the edges
smooth and to conform to the openings, then bonded them in place with good ol proseal.
Rick Galati RV-6A FWF
On the subject of glassing tips...what kind of foam are most using to lay the glassagainst?
Floral foam? balsa wood? Or is there something more suitable forthe
application (where do I get it if so)?Thanks in advances,Scott7A Emp/Wings
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Tedd McHenry wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
>>Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
>
> I think there was a discussion of this on one of the lists not long ago, but
I
> didn't find anything in the archives.
I remember this being discussed years ago on rec.aviation, and the consensus
was that the term came from the days of old when all airplanes had wooden
propellors. When the engine stopped, you had a "dead stick" on the front of
the plane.
-Rob
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Hi Doug,
"Stick", in those days of old, referred to Propeller. So there you go ;-)
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dead Stick Question non-RV
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> My apoligies for off-subject, but what better pool of knowledge??????
>
> Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> do not archive
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> According the Merriam-Webster, the term dates to about 1917, so it
> wouldn't be a flight control reference.
>
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=dead-stick
>
> The story I heard, many years ago, is that the word "stick" refers to
> the propeller. So a dead-stick landing is one where the prop is
> dead, or not turning. But I have no idea whether this is fact or
> fiction.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
Why not Kevin,
Didn't the first powered flight occur in 1903?
Plenty of time for engine failures. :-)
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
HR-II, 150 hours
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>"Stick", in those days of old, referred to Propeller
Thanks to all who answered, that makes sense, I believe it, and I will run
with that.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Skytec flyweight starter glitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
Brian, I posted a list of my experience with the sky tec flyweight starter
on the Aeroelectric list a couple months or so ago. I encourage you to
read it and search the archives.
Bottom line is that my sky tec lightweight starter has produced several
solenoid failures in its life. As far as I am concerned, they have a known
problem. Their analysis is that the solenoid failure is caused by
vibration. The long term effect of this vibration is to cause the solenoid
to intermittently "hang" and not pull the gear forward to engage the
starter. Once it starts to hang, you need to replace the solenoid.
The manufacturer's response has been somewhat spotty. They have been very
cooperative with some and mostly belligerent to me.
The recommendation of the company manager to me was to buy a better starter.
He just happens to have such a product now. He also recommended a dynamic
balance of the prop and engine. In my case, they repaired my starter
(installed a new solenoid) and replaced the armature, for $115.17. I also
had to pay the shipping to send it to Texas. Previously (the other three
times it failed) I had replaced the solenoid myself, with a part from the
local repair shop, for $15. This past time, (August), I thought I would try
to find out if Sky Tec had a better solenoid than my local starter guy. I
will let you know in a couple years. It seems to take at least a year for
me to break one.
My personal recommendation to the RV guys flying with Sky Tec is to carry a
spare solenoid, and learn to hand prop the engine.
Sky Tec does not agree with that approach, and lists themselves as the only
authorized repair station for their products.
Good luck,
Denis
> From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:35:51 +0000
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Skytec flyweight starter glitch
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
> Listers,
>
> I just completed the fourth condition inspection on my RV8 and encountered a
> funky starter problem. After I had everything finished up, test ran the
> engine (needed a cylinder replacement), cowled it up, and prepared to go
> fly. So, here I am, jazzed up to go fly after four weeks of "the annual
> from hell", I push the starter button and....and....nothing but a solenoid
> click.
>
> After much grumbling, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, I pulled the cowling
> and the starter. I had already checked the power through the solenoid at
> the firewall to the starter so I knew it was good. I took the solenoid off
> the starter and found it to be quite full of black carbon, dirt, gunk,
> detritus, gnat feces and whatever it has ingested after about three years of
> use. Out came a can of my favorite shop slop: carb cleaner. I hosed off
> the solenoid piston and much foul blackness issued forth until it started to
> flow clear. The solenoid was reinstalled, and it seems to be much happer
> now. I'm going flying again midweek just to see if it's really good to go
> or not. The motor cranks like mad so I doubt that has anything to do with
> the problem. That contactor was really loaded up with crud and didn't slide
> freely inside the coil body.
>
> So, you may want to add this bit of splendor to your inspections.
>
> Have a stellar day and see ya at LOE3.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Skytec flyweight starter glitch |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
Hand Prop? I hardly think that is a "recommendation" for running with a
SkyTec starter - I have been using one in my Grumman for years (as well as
others in the "gang") without any such concerns. I have found Skytec to be
totally up and able to work with any concerns that users of their product
may have.
That's my experience.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denis Walsh" <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Skytec flyweight starter glitch
> --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
>
> Brian, I posted a list of my experience with the sky tec flyweight starter
> on the Aeroelectric list a couple months or so ago. I encourage you to
> read it and search the archives.
>
> Bottom line is that my sky tec lightweight starter has produced several
> solenoid failures in its life. As far as I am concerned, they have a
known
> problem. Their analysis is that the solenoid failure is caused by
> vibration. The long term effect of this vibration is to cause the
solenoid
> to intermittently "hang" and not pull the gear forward to engage the
> starter. Once it starts to hang, you need to replace the solenoid.
>
> The manufacturer's response has been somewhat spotty. They have been very
> cooperative with some and mostly belligerent to me.
>
> The recommendation of the company manager to me was to buy a better
starter.
> He just happens to have such a product now. He also recommended a
dynamic
> balance of the prop and engine. In my case, they repaired my starter
> (installed a new solenoid) and replaced the armature, for $115.17. I also
> had to pay the shipping to send it to Texas. Previously (the other three
> times it failed) I had replaced the solenoid myself, with a part from the
> local repair shop, for $15. This past time, (August), I thought I would
try
> to find out if Sky Tec had a better solenoid than my local starter guy. I
> will let you know in a couple years. It seems to take at least a year for
> me to break one.
>
> My personal recommendation to the RV guys flying with Sky Tec is to carry
a
> spare solenoid, and learn to hand prop the engine.
>
> Sky Tec does not agree with that approach, and lists themselves as the
only
> authorized repair station for their products.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Denis
>
> > From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
> > Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:35:51 +0000
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Skytec flyweight starter glitch
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > I just completed the fourth condition inspection on my RV8 and
encountered a
> > funky starter problem. After I had everything finished up, test ran the
> > engine (needed a cylinder replacement), cowled it up, and prepared to go
> > fly. So, here I am, jazzed up to go fly after four weeks of "the annual
> > from hell", I push the starter button and....and....nothing but a
solenoid
> > click.
> >
> > After much grumbling, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, I pulled the
cowling
> > and the starter. I had already checked the power through the solenoid
at
> > the firewall to the starter so I knew it was good. I took the solenoid
off
> > the starter and found it to be quite full of black carbon, dirt, gunk,
> > detritus, gnat feces and whatever it has ingested after about three
years of
> > use. Out came a can of my favorite shop slop: carb cleaner. I hosed
off
> > the solenoid piston and much foul blackness issued forth until it
started to
> > flow clear. The solenoid was reinstalled, and it seems to be much
happer
> > now. I'm going flying again midweek just to see if it's really good to
go
> > or not. The motor cranks like mad so I doubt that has anything to do
with
> > the problem. That contactor was really loaded up with crud and didn't
slide
> > freely inside the coil body.
> >
> > So, you may want to add this bit of splendor to your inspections.
> >
> > Have a stellar day and see ya at LOE3.
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > RV8 N94BD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | tach signal switch for Grand Rapids Technology EIS engine monitor |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
I have a magneto on the left side and a Lightspeed on the right side. I
installed a selector switch to send either the Lightspeed tach signal or the
mag p-lead signal (thru a resistor as specified in the EIS instructions) to
the EIS tach input. I have set the EIS to 2 pulses per revolution which is
what the Lightspeed sends (and I assume the mag as well since a plug is
fired every 180 degrees of crank rotation). I'm not getting any tach reading
from the Lightspeed and the mag signal gives a tach reading which is too low
(but I'm not sure if it is half of actual).
Has anyone else gotten this arrangement to work?
Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this? I have already talked to Klaus
at Lightspeed and Greg at Grand Rapids and they just pointed the finger at
the other guy or at my wiring. I have checked my wiring thoroughly.
Note: Last week I posted about this problem as well as a problem with the
oil temp and pressure readings on the EIS. After a week of trouble shooting,
it was finally determined that the oil temp and pressure problems were
caused by an incorrect software version in the EIS. The software was for a
Jabiru engine rather than a Lycoming! Greg sent a new chip with the correct
software for a Lycoming and that solved 2 out of 3 of my EIS problems but
still no luck on the tach.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (reserved)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Question non-RV |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:32:39 -0700
--> RV-List message posted by: "DWAIN HARRIS" <DJaerosports@msn.com>
Doug, another off -subject, Great pictures of you in Air Classic.
"What A Life"
Dwain
Tehachapi Ca.
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Rozendaal
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Dead Stick Question non-RV
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
My apoligies for off-subject, but what better pool of knowledge??????
Does anyone know the origin of the term "Dead-Stick" Landing?
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: seats fabrics.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
I apologize for not sending this when the topic was current. I got
behind on reading my email while I was moving and am just now getting
caught up.
One solution I saw was to attach a flap of fabric to the front of the
seat. This flap is folded up over the seat to step on. After you get
your feet on the floor, and before you settle down onto the seat, fold
the flap back down. A strip Velcro will allow the flap to be removed for
cleaning. Another flap will hold it folded back on itself when it is in
the "down" position, so that it doesn't dirty the back of your pants
legs.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Original message:
> I don't know how everyone else gets into an RV6, but I end up stepping
> right in the middle of the seat before I am able to lower myself into
the
> seat itself. After a time this makes the fabric dirty/dingy.
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