---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/24/03: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:52 AM - Re: RV-8 vert.stab angle (Dana Overall) 2. 04:08 AM - Re: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question (Dana Overall) 3. 06:19 AM - Re: Heads up -- QB fuel tank fittings (Scott Bilinski) 4. 06:24 AM - Flap attachment (Ken Simmons) 5. 06:29 AM - Re: Main Gear Shimmy 6A (SportAV8R@aol.com) 6. 06:39 AM - RV CAD Model (Eric Parlow) 7. 06:54 AM - Slider Seal (Wheeler North) 8. 08:05 AM - Re: dipstick & tube--help (Sam Buchanan) 9. 08:08 AM - rivet for #6 screw countersink? (RV8ter@aol.com) 10. 08:20 AM - Re: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question (Dan Checkoway) 11. 08:31 AM - Re: Flap attachment (Dan Checkoway) 12. 11:33 AM - Betta Services (Mark Phillips) 13. 11:40 AM - Re: rivet for #6 screw countersink? (Jim Sears) 14. 12:18 PM - Re: dipstick & tube--help (Randy Compton) 15. 02:29 PM - Re: Main Gear Shimmy 6A (Alex Peterson) 16. 02:48 PM - Re: RV CAD Model (Brett Morawski) 17. 03:22 PM - Re: Main Gear Shimmy 6A (Jim Jewell) 18. 04:53 PM - Fuselage Center Section (Clayton Henderson) 19. 06:30 PM - Re: Fuselage Center Section (Dan Checkoway) 20. 06:59 PM - Re: How Much Primer? (BPattonsoa@aol.com) 21. 08:05 PM - Re: How Much Primer? (Stein Bruch) 22. 08:51 PM - Re: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question (Dana Overall) 23. 10:24 PM - Re: [rv8list] props and spinner spacing (Randy Lervold) 24. 10:34 PM - Questions about Elevators (Wier, Daniel C.) 25. 11:40 PM - Re: Questions about Elevators (Dan Checkoway) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:18 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 vert.stab angle --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" I realize you are building an 8 but just for reference on the 7 the plans call for the VS to be offset 1/4" to the left of centerline. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: "GEORGE INMAN" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: "Matronics rv list" >Subject: RV-List: RV-8 vert.stab angle >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:04:32 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "GEORGE INMAN" > > I am about to lineup my vertical stab >I have an RV-8 with a 180HP lycoming. > Can someone with this settup tell >me how much they had to trim their rudder >and which way? > I plan to line it up per vans directions, >but if I do error a small amount,which >direction should I error in? > >GEORGE H. INMAN >ghinman@attcanada.ca > > Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:36 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Dwight's tank is just clecoed on at this point, though (no proseal yet). I >still think it has to do with possible hole elongation and rib flange >"tuning"...but that's just my 2 cents. 8-) > After having a problem with one of mine and not on the other and stepping back to have a good look, I believe it lies in the different thickness of the skins and a slight error in the radius bend of the tank leading edge. It's not much of an error but with how nicely the pre punched kits fit together, I didn't want to have this slight misalignment on my leading edge. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: "Dan Checkoway" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question >Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:48:43 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Dwight's tank is just clecoed on at this point, though (no proseal yet). I >still think it has to do with possible hole elongation and rib flange >"tuning"...but that's just my 2 cents. 8-) > >do not archive >)_( Dan > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dana Overall" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > > > Dwight, I had the very same issue with one of mine. I am certain it >has > > something to do with the proseal thickness on that outer fuel tank rib >added > > to the different skin thicknesses of the tank and outer leading edge. >My > > quick fix was to run a take line on the higher skin and squeegy a layer >of > > Superfil. I took a razor and cut the line back between the skins and >peeled > > the tape off. Sand that puppy down and you will a perfect fit. > > > > If you want some pics, let me know. > > > > > > Dana Overall > > Richmond, KY > > RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" > > Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. > > http://rvflying.tripod.com > > do not archive > > > > > > >From: Dwight Frye > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > >To: rv-list@matronics.com (RV Mailing List) > > >Subject: RV-List: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question > > >Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:55:16 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > > > > > >It may be that I'm being too picky here, but I want input on a tank to > > >leading edge fit issue I've run into. On the right side the fit is > > >absolutely perfect. On the left side I have a small difference between > > >the forward-most part of the skin on the tank and the forward-most > > >part of the skin on the leading edge. > > > > > >The difference is about the thickness of the tank skin, so maybe I am > > >being too picky, but I wanted to hear what folks had to say about the > > >issue. If you look at http://www.openweave.org/RV7/showissue.php you > > >can see a web page with pictures of the situation. There are two >pictures > > >there .. one showing the general area of concern, and the other showing > > >a closeup of the skins and the "gap" I'm seeing. > > > > > >I did check with Van's and they said that _maybe_ a shim was called > > >for to bump up the leading edge skin a bit, but even then seemed to > > >think that it wasn't a big deal. > > > > > >Anyone have any advice here? Or should I just press on and not worry > > >about it? Enquiring minds want to know. :) > > > > > > -- Dwight > > > > > > > > > > > > Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:29 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Heads up -- QB fuel tank fittings --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski There is a way to hold the fitting while tightening the nut. First remove the hose, then get another nut just like the one holding the fitting in place. Cut half way through it with a hack saw. Then install it on the threads where the hose screws on. Grab it with a pair of vise grips which will clamp it down on the threads. Your going to have to squeeze pretty good but it will be enough to keep it from turning while getting a wrench in behind it to tighten the mounting nut. I just did this a few weeks ago on the flop tube which has even less room around it than any other fitting on the tank. Just order the right stuff, Proseal from ACS and do it right the first time. It keeps very well in the frig for future use. > >Which brings me to my next problem... I no longer have access to the insides >of the tanks, so I'll have to seal these fittings from the outside. Since I >can't get a wrench on the backside of the fitting, I'll have to use the >anti-rotation bracket as a "wrench" to hold the fitting as I tighten the nut. >This made me wonder -- there is no way to hold the fitting with a wrench, so >what will keep it from moving (the slight amount allowed by the hole in the >anti-rotation bracket) every time the fuel line is connected or disconnected? >My reference book says that nuts for -6 fittings should be torqued 75-125 >inch-pounds. I just don't see how I can use that kind of force on the fuel >line nut without the fitting moving -- even with the jam nut in place against >the rib. > >Also, since I don't have any proseal left (I used the kind that comes in the >calking gun tube), I'm going to try sealing the fittings with Aviation >Permatex form-a-gasket. I've read bad things about this stuff in the >archives, but those posts were in reference to using Permatex in conjunction >with the cork gaskets on the cover plates. I *think* it should work okay in >this metal-to-metal application of sealing the washer, nut, and threads of a >fitting. Does anyone have any comments for me regarding this -- pro or con? > >Thanks. >-Geoff >RV-8 QB > >__________________________________ > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:29 AM PST US From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: RV-List: Flap attachment --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" There is a bunch of information in the archives about this subject, but I'm not sure how much applies to a pre-punched wing kit or if it makes a difference. This concerns a pre-punched RV-8 wing. I'm to the point of drilling the hinge half to the flap. With everything pre-punched it seems like the positioning of the hinge would be important to ensure the trailing edge of the flap and aileron are aligned. I can't seem to find anywhere in the plans where the flap is attached to the wing. I'm sure it's in there, but I can't find it. I also found some information in the archives about replacing the wing half of the hinge with a "wider" piece so the flap could be moved aft some. The other often discussed item is installing the hinge whole or splitting it in the middle. I had the opportunity to check a friends RV-6 with the flap installed, but not connect to the operating rod. I couldn't see a way to install the hinge from the bottom of the wing and there wasn't enough room to insert it from the top. Is there a difference in this area between the 6 and 8? Thanks. Ken DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:38 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Main Gear Shimmy 6A --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com In a message dated 10/23/2003 8:12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alexpeterson@usjet.net writes: > I thought this might be interesting for the list. I ran Van's main gear > tires on my main gear for about 250 hours, and was able to avoid shimmy > on landing rollout by keeping the pressure below about 40psi. I'd still > get a little transient shimmy from time to time, but no big deal. I > installed new Michelin tires about 100 hours ago, and have experienced > about the same thing, although it seems to take a lower pressure to > eliminate the shimmy, perhaps 35psi. The problem with the lower > pressures is the difficulty pushing the plane back into the hanger, > especially in winter, so I'd really like to run them around > 45psi > minimum. FWIW, Alex, I've always run my Van's tires and later my McCreay (sp?) Airhawks at 32 psi or less (for awhile I used about 25 psi to try to lessen porpoising problems). There is in fact an increase in rolling resistance at these pressures, but far less tendency to shimmy. When I switched to the new pressure recovery fairings and the Airhawks (with those wonderful Michelin Airstop tubes) I eliminated my wood shimmy dampeners (they were making the main gear legs rust anyway) and balanced the pants fore and aft with lead shot and epoxy in the noses. I notice occasional shimmy on asphalt as I decelerate on landing rollout. Never a problem; gentle braking stops it, and I never feel it on takeoff. I do 99% of my ops on turf, where the shimmy couldn't be felt over the other bumps even if it were there. And I am blessed to be able to taxi straight-in to my hangar under power, shut down, and make a wide 180 or a 3-point turn depending on how much junk is in the hangar at the time, so rolling friction is rarely a concern. I manhandle the plane by the roots of the prop blades and never use a tow bar... my old tow bar won't fit over the new pants anyway. An RV-6A is capable of a 180 degree U-turn inside a 36 foot wide hangar with ease! I virtually never find myself needing to push the plane backwards into the hangar. You have aroused my curiosity as to how fast the plane would get off the grass with 40 psi in the tires; I bet the suspension would feel hard as a rock compared to what I'm used to. Anyway, feel free to experimet with lower pressures; 25-30 psi works just fine for me. -Bill Boyd do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:01 AM PST US From: "Eric Parlow" Subject: RV-List: RV CAD Model --> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" Is anyone aware of a CAD model of an RV. Specifically a Pro-E model of the RV-8A. ERic-- GodSpeed Aviation Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access. Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:39 AM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Slider Seal --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North I have had some of the nylon tape in this area as an antichafe device, but it really doesn't seal well, nor does it want to stay there very cleanly. Next time I have the canopy off I am going to try putting down some of the fuzzy side of 3/4" velcro. I have given up on using the self sticky kind though as it doesn't last long. At the very least it will disturb the airflow, and if it needs more than I can just stick a narrower strip of the hook side down on the inboard edge of the 3/4" loop strip. I'll post how this works when I get to it. W ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:37 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: dipstick & tube--help --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Randy Compton wrote: > Unfortunately, so far I have not found a welding shop that has any rod in > the diameter that will work with the dipstick cap. In the meantime, I > scribed extra marks on the current stick that match what my engine takes. > Since my marks are, shall we say, somewhat crude as compared to the existing > factory marks, I have no trouble figuring out which ones to use when > determining the amount oil in the sump. > A neat way to make new marks on a dipstick is to lightly score the stick with a tubing cutter. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:47 AM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: RV-List: rivet for #6 screw countersink? --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Is there a rivet which has the shank diameter of 3/32 (ie, your standard an426ad3 rivet) but has a countersunk head sized for a #6 screw? I guess it doesn't have to be 3/32 diameter. Is there any flush head rivet sized for a #6 screw countersink? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:48 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Dwight's tank is just clecoed on at this point, though (no proseal yet). I > >still think it has to do with possible hole elongation and rib flange > >"tuning"...but that's just my 2 cents. 8-) > > > > After having a problem with one of mine and not on the other and stepping > back to have a good look, I believe it lies in the different thickness of > the skins and a slight error in the radius bend of the tank leading edge. > It's not much of an error but with how nicely the pre punched kits fit > together, I didn't want to have this slight misalignment on my leading edge. I don't see how this is possible, since regardless of what the skin bend might be out of the box, once it's clecoed up the tank and leading edge should match exactly. The form factor of the leading edge and tank ribs are identical! Ok, maybe .013 difference tops due to the skin thickness issue (.032 skin vs. .025), but anything more than that comes down to how you're assembling it. I apologize if I'm repeating myself, but I can't stress this enough. If you get those ribs forward into the tank skins properly, the tank skin falls right down onto the joint plate, tank skin meets the wing skin edge, and there's zero gap, zero bulge. With a match-drilled kit, you gotta assume that if things don't fit, it's the builder's responsibility (with very few exceptions). do not archive )_( Dan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:59 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap attachment --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Regarding your flap installation questions: 1) You probably want your aileron installed when drilling the flap hinge to the wing...at least when initially getting it set up. That's the only way to set the proper gap between the aileron and flap, which is what really dictates the flap's position. I went with 3/16" gap between flap and aileron, although I think most people go with 1/4" gap...lately I've heard some RV-7 builders have fuselage interference if they let the gap get too big, but from what I understand of the RV-8 you'll have none of those issues due to the different, more aggressively tapered contour of the RV-8 fuselage. 2) In terms of drilling the hinge, you want to keep the hinge as straight as possible when drilling. Otherwise, it will make it difficult if not impossible to insert the hinge pin(s) later on if there's any waviness or assymmetry between the two halves (i.e. if you drilled the two halves independently and then just expected them to match up perfectly). Ask me how I know... 3) In terms of the hinge pin insertion procedure, the RV-7 instructions (same wing as the RV-8, from what I've been told) advise to go one of two ways: a) Drill a hole in the aileron hinge bracket b) Split the flap hinge into two sections, and cut away three (or so) eyelets from the center of the flap hinge I went with (b) for a couple of reasons. First, shorter hinge pins are easier to insert no matter what the setting (in my experience). Second, it's easy to secure the pins to the flap brace with some safety wire. I think if you look at Phil Birkelbach's site (http://www.myrv7.com, not sure if he follows this list), he shows a nice way to bend and secure the ends of the pins using the split-center method. I'm not knocking option (a), which is simpler in some respects, just telling you what I've experienced. 4) If you want some advice on driling the flap hinge, I wrote an article for our local SoCAL RV wing's newsletter on this very subject...it's on page 8 of this file: http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/July2003.pdf Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: RV-List: Flap attachment > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > > There is a bunch of information in the archives about this subject, but I'm not sure how much applies to a pre-punched wing kit or if it makes a difference. > > This concerns a pre-punched RV-8 wing. I'm to the point of drilling the hinge half to the flap. With everything pre-punched it seems like the positioning of the hinge would be important to ensure the trailing edge of the flap and aileron are aligned. I can't seem to find anywhere in the plans where the flap is attached to the wing. I'm sure it's in there, but I can't find it. I also found some information in the archives about replacing the wing half of the hinge with a "wider" piece so the flap could be moved aft some. > > The other often discussed item is installing the hinge whole or splitting it in the middle. I had the opportunity to check a friends RV-6 with the flap installed, but not connect to the operating rod. I couldn't see a way to install the hinge from the bottom of the wing and there wasn't enough room to insert it from the top. Is there a difference in this area between the 6 and 8? > > Thanks. > > Ken ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:45 AM PST US From: Mark Phillips Subject: RV-List: Betta Services --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips Howdy list- A friend building a Mustang II (hey, at least it ain't GLASS!) has recently learned that Mustang Aero is contracting wing construction to an outfit in Washington state called "Betta Services". Anybody heard of 'em? He can't find any info... Thanks - Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:31 AM PST US From: "Jim Sears" Subject: Re: RV-List: rivet for #6 screw countersink? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Sears" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: rivet for #6 screw countersink? > --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > Is there a rivet which has the shank diameter of 3/32 (ie, your standard > an426ad3 rivet) but has a countersunk head sized for a #6 screw? > > I guess it doesn't have to be 3/32 diameter. Is there any flush head rivet > sized for a #6 screw countersink? > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:39 PM PST US From: "Randy Compton" Subject: Re: RV-List: dipstick & tube--help --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Compton" > Randy Compton wrote: > > Since my marks are, shall we say, somewhat crude as compared to the existing > > factory marks, I have no trouble figuring out which ones to use when > > determining the amount oil in the sump. > > > > A neat way to make new marks on a dipstick is to lightly score the stick > with a tubing cutter. > > Sam Buchanan Lovely. Just great. Now you tell me. Randy Compton Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:12 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Main Gear Shimmy 6A --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > FWIW, Alex, I've always run my Van's tires and later my > McCreay (sp?) Airhawks at 32 psi or less (for awhile I used > about 25 psi to try to lessen porpoising problems). There is > in fact an increase in rolling resistance at these pressures, > but far less tendency to shimmy. Bill, thanks. I have reflected on what is going on with my shimmy, and particularly why the shimmy got worse with the new Michelin tires. I now believe that it is simply the additional weight that the Michelin tires are as compared to the Van's tires. Any spring/mass system will resonate unless sufficient damping is introduced. When I added the additional weight in the fronts of the wheel fairings, the overall mass went up and moved the frequency down. I think the only solution is to keep the tire pressures low (increase the damping). Now, how to change my scrawny build so that I can push the thing back into the hanger.... Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 394 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:34 PM PST US From: "Brett Morawski" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV CAD Model --> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski" I created a crude RV8 model in CATIA based off Van's 3-view drawing. I made it just to try out different paint schemes and it wouldn't be accurate enough for much else. If you want it and can't read CATIA files I can translate it into something else or send an IGES or Step file. Brett Morawski Toledo, OH -8(a?) emp in progress, waiting on wing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric Parlow Subject: RV-List: RV CAD Model --> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" Is anyone aware of a CAD model of an RV. Specifically a Pro-E model of the RV-8A. ERic-- GodSpeed Aviation Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access. Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:58 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Main Gear Shimmy 6A --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Alex, Aside from having quite a bit of surgery with a bunch of gizmos and computer electronics stuffed into that "scrawny" frame. Or god forbid, a formidable body building exorcize and diet regimen !!!(;-] There seems to be at least a few choices of Tuggers that can be inserted under nose and those pesky little tail wheels on the market. Or, you can have the pleasure of a new project and coble one together out of a small gas or electric motor and some parts from the aircraft section of the local hardware store. Jim in Kelowna do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Main Gear Shimmy 6A > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > FWIW, Alex, I've always run my Van's tires and later my > > McCreay (sp?) Airhawks at 32 psi or less (for awhile I used > > about 25 psi to try to lessen porpoising problems). There is > > in fact an increase in rolling resistance at these pressures, > > but far less tendency to shimmy. > > Bill, thanks. I have reflected on what is going on with my shimmy, and > particularly why the shimmy got worse with the new Michelin tires. I > now believe that it is simply the additional weight that the Michelin > tires are as compared to the Van's tires. Any spring/mass system will > resonate unless sufficient damping is introduced. When I added the > additional weight in the fronts of the wheel fairings, the overall mass > went up and moved the frequency down. I think the only solution is to > keep the tire pressures low (increase the damping). Now, how to change > my scrawny build so that I can push the thing back into the hanger.... > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 394 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:14 PM PST US From: "Clayton Henderson" Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Center Section --> RV-List message posted by: "Clayton Henderson" I'm trying to make heads or tails out of the F-704G vertical bar (shear bar) fit and riveting. I assembled it in place, using AN4-7 bolts to line it up perfectly in the pre-drilled holes. The bar 'leans' in board as it should, and it looks like the plans call for drilling rivet holes in the center of the bar at both ends.and I guess through the 704C as well. If so, do I matchdrill all the way through the 704C - 704FWD - 704G - 704AFT - 704D? And if that's the case, then would I need to counter sink the forward side of the 704FWD bulkhead for a AN426AD4-14 rivet? The plans say 'the rivets attaching the F704G bars have flush heads on the forward side'. I apologize in advance for the confusion - even my questions aren't making sense to me right now. Any help would be appreciated. Clayton Henderson Beaumont, TX RV-7 Fuselage ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:38 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuselage Center Section --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Those bars attach only to the AFT half of F-704. The wing spar web mates up with the forward face of the bar, which is why you want the rivet heads flush on the fwd face of the bar (so the wing can slide into place). )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clayton Henderson" Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Center Section > --> RV-List message posted by: "Clayton Henderson" > > I'm trying to make heads or tails out of the F-704G vertical bar (shear > bar) fit and riveting. I assembled it in place, using AN4-7 bolts to > line it up perfectly in the pre-drilled holes. The bar 'leans' in board > as it should, and it looks like the plans call for drilling rivet holes > in the center of the bar at both ends.and I guess through the 704C as > well. If so, do I matchdrill all the way through the 704C - 704FWD - > 704G - 704AFT - 704D? And if that's the case, then would I need to > counter sink the forward side of the 704FWD bulkhead for a AN426AD4-14 > rivet? The plans say 'the rivets attaching the F704G bars have flush > heads on the forward side'. > > I apologize in advance for the confusion - even my questions aren't > making sense to me right now. Any help would be appreciated. > > Clayton Henderson > Beaumont, TX > RV-7 Fuselage > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:32 PM PST US From: BPattonsoa@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: How Much Primer? --> RV-List message posted by: BPattonsoa@aol.com In a message dated 10/23/2003 7:44:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, joshs@ninatek.com writes: Bruce, How much does your RV weigh empty? How much of that weight do you attribute to primer? Actually weighs 1148 empty, with oil. Excuses are: 0-360 A1A from Vans Constant Speed Prop Vacuum System (unnecessary in a VFR airplane and pilot) 20 lb. Wiring is per Nuccols using a vital/non/vital system with each ground returning to one of three major ground points. Results in a lot of excess wire, I would estimate at least 10 lb.. Being overconservative in wire sizing, especially in some of the long runs in the wings was at least 5 lb.. Has a copilot brake system and a parking brake, never used yet. Primer. Gil gave a number of .0133 lb/sqft at 1 mil and 500 sq. feet. I don't agree with the 500 sq. ft, and I am sure I went at least 1.5 mils average. Sq. ft ... Wing area 110 X 2 for inside skins minus about 30 for tank interiors. Ribs, both sides, about 100 sq. ft, spar at least 100 sq. ft if you think of the two layers of shear webs for the first half and the stiffeners. All the flat bars in the caps. require priming because they are not Alcad. Say 400 sq. ft for wing, tail area about 25%, or 100, fues use a 4' box about 20 feet long is 320. Comes up to around 800 if you add in all the minor parts. There is no place in my interior where you can see raw aluminum. Using 800 sq. ft and 1.5 mils with .0133 comes up to an extra 16 lb.. Since I used all of 3 gallons of Dupont self etching primer at about 50% spray efficiency, that might be low. Exterior paint is Aerothane with epoxy primer underneath. That is at least another 32 lb., most likely 50 lb., but worth it. Interior is cloth fabric on all exposed surfaces, insulation on the firewall and a rug under the feet and in baggage area. At least 30 lb., probably 10 lb. excessive. Roughing through all the above numbers gives the difference between a 1,050 LB that sort of shows that Van is correct in his minimum weights, and a 1150 RV-6A. If honesty were a requirement, I would expect a lot of folks would admit to the fancy IFR with multicolor paint jobs weigh over 1150. To save weight, my RV-10 won't have primer on the inside except where required by Vans, will use a single bus for power (with a handheld in the storage cube), and will use local grounds on all but the fancy electronics that you can't avoid. Wires will be sized right per the charts, which are conservative to begin with, only a single light in the wing for landing and visibility in smutty conditions. No vacuum system and brakes on the drivers side only. What I consider worth the weight are the interior fabric, a rug under foot (but not in the luggage room) and firewall insulation, a darn nice paint job on the outside, except with more attention paid to coverage. Bruce Patton (full of opinion) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:06 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: How Much Primer? --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Here's my breakdown with my weigh in at 1089lbs with lots of heavy stuff installed but still came in light in my opinion for what I have. Here's a list of "things" that could have been made the plane lighter. AEIO-360 (With Inverted Oil system) & Flop tube in 1 tank. Sensenich Metal Prop & Spinner IFR Panel with full Gyros (cageable). Also single ground points. Fully insulated from firewall to back of baggage (including under seats). Full interior fabric Hooker harnesses. Electric Flaps. Dual Brakes 2 Color PPG Urethane Paint (Black/Green). Next, here's my take on priming. Remember, it's only my personal opinion....Priming everything is a waste in my opinion (weight & time). Instead, I alodined everything, including ribs, bulkheads & skins (had nice big dipping tanks). I used zinc chromate where steel was involved, and a few areas of primer where I think it is necessary(Lower aft tail, etc..). Overall, I'm quite happy with my weight (on the plane that is)! Anyway, 1148 is not bad, I've seen much heavier birds out there. I think the easiest way to keep the weight down is be conscious during the building process, then be carefull about what you install and where you install it. I'm just finishing a -6 which has a O-320/FP, VFR panel with ONLY a Dynon EFIS, Garmin 196, Icom Comm, IK2000 engine monitor, & UPSAT Txpdr. I'm keeping the interior and exterior simple, and really hoping for a nice light, simple & fast plane. It will be interesting to compare the two in another month! Anyway, I'm now of the opinion that light & simple is best! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minnepolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BPattonsoa@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: How Much Primer? --> RV-List message posted by: BPattonsoa@aol.com In a message dated 10/23/2003 7:44:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, joshs@ninatek.com writes: Bruce, How much does your RV weigh empty? How much of that weight do you attribute to primer? Actually weighs 1148 empty, with oil. Excuses are: 0-360 A1A from Vans Constant Speed Prop Vacuum System (unnecessary in a VFR airplane and pilot) 20 lb. Wiring is per Nuccols using a vital/non/vital system with each ground returning to one of three major ground points. Results in a lot of excess wire, I would estimate at least 10 lb..>>>> Has a copilot brake system and a parking brake, never used yet. Primer. Gil gave a number of .0133 lb/sqft at 1 mil and 500 sq. feet. I don't agree with the 500 sq. ft, and I am sure I went at least 1.5 mils average. Sq. ft ... Wing area 110 X 2 for inside skins minus about 30 for tank interiors. Ribs, both sides, about 100 sq. ft, spar at least 100 sq. ft if you think of the two layers of shear webs for the first half and the stiffeners. All the flat bars in the caps. require priming because they are not Alcad. Say 400 sq. ft for wing, tail area about 25%, or 100, fues use a 4' box about 20 feet long is 320. Comes up to around 800 if you add in all the minor parts. There is no place in my interior where you can see raw aluminum. Using 800 sq. ft and 1.5 mils with .0133 comes up to an extra 16 lb.. Since I used all of 3 gallons of Dupont self etching primer at about 50% spray efficiency, that might be low. Exterior paint is Aerothane with epoxy primer underneath. That is at least another 32 lb., most likely 50 lb., but worth it. Interior is cloth fabric on all exposed surfaces, insulation on the firewall and a rug under the feet and in baggage area. At least 30 lb., probably 10 lb. excessive. Roughing through all the above numbers gives the difference between a 1,050 LB that sort of shows that Van is correct in his minimum weights, and a 1150 RV-6A. If honesty were a requirement, I would expect a lot of folks would admit to the fancy IFR with multicolor paint jobs weigh over 1150. To save weight, my RV-10 won't have primer on the inside except where required by Vans, will use a single bus for power (with a handheld in the storage cube), and will use local grounds on all but the fancy electronics that you can't avoid. Wires will be sized right per the charts, which are conservative to begin with, only a single light in the wing for landing and visibility in smutty conditions. No vacuum system and brakes on the drivers side only. What I consider worth the weight are the interior fabric, a rug under foot (but not in the luggage room) and firewall insulation, a darn nice paint job on the outside, except with more attention paid to coverage. Bruce Patton (full of opinion) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:55 PM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV7 Tank to Leading Edge Fit Question --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >From: "Dan Checkoway" . With a match-drilled kit, you gotta assume that if things don't fit, it's the builder's responsibility (with very few exceptions). I think this is one of those "few exceptions":-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:31 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: RV-List: Re: [rv8list] props and spinner spacing --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" Scott, I will be testing the new Whirl Wind 200RV. I just received it today, installed it tonight, and weighed it before installation: 41 lbs for the complete assembly including all fasteners compared to 59 for the Hartzell. I'll balance it and fly it tomorrow, testing could be as soon as next weekend. Information as it develops will be added to the Prop page on my web site found at... www.rv-8.com/Prop.htm Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Clarkson To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 5:29 PM Subject: [rv8list] props and spinner spacing I've spent the last month trying to figure out what prop to order and I still haven't made up my mind. I think I ruled out the Hartzell models for weight and vibration issues. I spoke with Whirlwind (really nice people) but can't order their 3 blade because I'm running Lasar ignition. I'm intrigued by the 2 blade RV model coming out but it won't be till the beginning of the year at best. I'm leaning toward the MT 3 blade for smoothness and weight savings. In the archives I've gathered that the spinner/cowling spacing should remain the same (or close) regardless of what prop I decide to go with. I would like to install my cowling using the prop simulator spacers and Van's spinner back plate but the archives warn that Van's recommended 2.250" PVC prop spacers between the ring gear and spinner back plate are too long. They should be more like 2.125". Could someone verify the spacer length so I don't toast my cowling and maybe lend some advice about using this method? I just want be accurate and keep the project rolling along. Thanks in advance, Scott Clarkson Propellerless in NJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ADVERTISEMENT Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits. IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO : rv8list-unsubscribe@egroups.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:05 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Questions about Elevators From: "Wier, Daniel C." --> RV-List message posted by: "Wier, Daniel C." I am having a hard time figuring out how the elevators mount on the Horizontal Stab. I mounted them on the HZ Stab but the counter weight seems to be too long or something else is wrong. I have some pictures here of what it looks like and I just can't figure it out. http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1382.JPG http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1383.JPG http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1384.JPG http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1385.JPG Forgive my ignorance if it is something easy I am missing. Thanks, Daniel Wier RV-7 Daniel@TheGreatWhite.net www.buildtherv7.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:28 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Questions about Elevators --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" You've got the new elevator counterweight style, and it looks like Van hasn't changed the HS skin shape to accommodate it. Just trim the HS skin so that the counterweight arms clear by 3/16" or so. I had a similar issue with the old counterweight style and had to trim 1/8" or so off the HS skin. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wier, Daniel C." Subject: RV-List: Questions about Elevators > --> RV-List message posted by: "Wier, Daniel C." > > I am having a hard time figuring out how the elevators mount on the > Horizontal Stab. I mounted them on the HZ Stab but the counter weight > seems to be too long or something else is wrong. I have some pictures > here of what it looks like and I just can't figure it out. > > http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1382.JPG > http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1383.JPG > http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1384.JPG > http://www.buildtherv7.com/files/DCP_1385.JPG > > Forgive my ignorance if it is something easy I am missing. > > Thanks, > Daniel Wier > RV-7 > Daniel@TheGreatWhite.net > www.buildtherv7.com > >