Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:28 AM - First Flight (Steve Glasgow)
2. 04:03 AM - Re: First Flight (Bad Cat Aviation)
3. 04:18 AM - Why do we use VariPrime? (David Nelson)
4. 04:29 AM - Re: First Flight (Ed Anderson)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: Dynon EMI update (Doug Rozendaal)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: First Flight (Ken Simmons)
7. 06:06 AM - Stuff sacks (Alex Peterson)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: HUMOR - are bigger engine's Chick Magnets (Scott Bilinski)
9. 06:22 AM - Re: Flamemaster tank sealant (Scott Bilinski)
10. 06:48 AM - Re: Stuff sacks (David Burton)
11. 06:50 AM - Re: Stuff sacks (Larygagnon@aol.com)
12. 07:54 AM - Re: VS rib to spar gap (Paul Eastham)
13. 08:09 AM - Re: Stuff sacks (Gil Alexander)
14. 08:12 AM - Fw: Fw: tailwheel chains (David Carter)
15. 08:14 AM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Sam Buchanan)
16. 08:28 AM - Re: Flamemaster tank sealant (Dave Mader)
17. 08:39 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime? (Ernest Kells)
18. 08:41 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime? (DWENSING@aol.com)
19. 09:04 AM - Re: Fw: Fw: tailwheel chains ()
20. 09:07 AM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Jerry Springer)
21. 10:02 AM - free to good home: RV-7A preview plans (Paul Eastham)
22. 10:12 AM - DAR in Iowa (D. Jones)
23. 10:20 AM - Re: Flamemaster tank sealant (Dan Checkoway)
24. 10:46 AM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Mark Phillips)
25. 11:07 AM - Re: Email list vs. Web forum (Jake L. Wegman)
26. 11:12 AM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Jerry Springer)
27. 11:19 AM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Sam Buchanan)
28. 11:22 AM - Re: First Flight (Charles Rowbotham)
29. 11:32 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime? (David E. Nelson)
30. 11:50 AM - Re: 180hp Sensenich Prop for Sale (czechsix@juno.com)
31. 11:53 AM - Drilling canopy frame first (Dana Overall)
32. 11:56 AM - Drilling canopy frame first-amended (Dana Overall)
33. 11:59 AM - Re: First Flight (no, not the Wrights...) (Charles Rowbotham)
34. 12:37 PM - Re: room for massive manhood (C. Rabaut)
35. 12:59 PM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Stein Bruch)
36. 01:46 PM - Too Late Sam...... (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
37. 01:48 PM - Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans (Paul Eastham)
38. 02:25 PM - Re: New Parts for Sale (Jim M.)
39. 02:52 PM - Re: Flamemaster tank sealant (Alex Peterson)
40. 03:19 PM - Re: Too Late Sam...... (Sam Buchanan)
41. 03:33 PM - Re: Too Late Sam...... (Jim Jewell)
42. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans (BGCrook@aol.com)
43. 03:58 PM - Re: Too Late Sam...... (Kosta Lewis)
44. 04:57 PM - Re: Drilling canopy frame first (Jordan Grant)
45. 05:23 PM - Re: Too Late Sam...... (Gordon and Marge)
46. 06:11 PM - Re: -4 Canopy (Pete Waters)
47. 06:15 PM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (Larry Bowen)
48. 07:05 PM - Re: First Flight (Lenleg@aol.com)
49. 08:12 PM - Meigs Field (Jeff Orear)
50. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans (Jerry)
51. 08:34 PM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (Mike Robertson)
52. 08:36 PM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (Mike Robertson)
53. 08:39 PM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (Mike Robertson)
54. 08:43 PM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (Mike Robertson)
55. 08:53 PM - Re: Painting the Airplane (j1j2h3@juno.com)
56. 09:33 PM - Re: Painting the Airplane (Radomir Zaric)
57. 10:27 PM - Re: Meigs Field (Mark Phillips)
58. 10:34 PM - Re: RV CAD Model (Brett Morawski)
59. 10:39 PM - All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!! (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Hi everyone,
On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time, I
flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a near
perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and all
engine instruments were gone.
Not knowing anything about how she would fly during approach, I was
committed to some seat of the pants flying. I continued climb to 5,500
making turns over the airport and started my slow flight work. Again Cappy
s Toy flew like a dream. 75 MPH clean, 70 MPH flap and 65 MPH full flap,
not even a suggestion of stall. Next I started descent and again tested her
at all thee configurations. I decided on flaps for landing with a final
approach speed of 80 MPH.
The landing went quite well with no control problems, but during the landing
roll the engine quit. Thanks to a great ground crew we pushed her clear in
a very short time and back to the hanger. We determined the EIS problem was
probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
auto shutdown. The engine quit because the idle mixture screw was missing.
It must have been set to far back and worked its way out. When the engine
slowed to idle after landing the mixture was way to rich and the engine
flooded .
A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
awesome ride.
Steve Glasgow
Charlotte, NC
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bad Cat Aviation <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
Congratulations Steve!
Like soloing, your first flight is a day you will never forget. You'll get those
little bugs worked out in very short order and will be able to hit all the
airshows in style next year. Here's an electronic atta boy for a job well done.
Welcome to the club!
Rob Miller N262RM "Bad Cat" -8 150 hours
visit us at www.badcataviation.com
Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
Hi everyone,
On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time, I
flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a near
perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and all
engine instruments were gone.
Not knowing anything about how she would fly during approach, I was
committed to some seat of the pants flying. I continued climb to 5,500
making turns over the airport and started my slow flight work. Again Cappy
s Toy flew like a dream. 75 MPH clean, 70 MPH flap and 65 MPH full flap,
not even a suggestion of stall. Next I started descent and again tested her
at all thee configurations. I decided on flaps for landing with a final
approach speed of 80 MPH.
The landing went quite well with no control problems, but during the landing
roll the engine quit. Thanks to a great ground crew we pushed her clear in
a very short time and back to the hanger. We determined the EIS problem was
probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
auto shutdown. The engine quit because the idle mixture screw was missing.
It must have been set to far back and worked its way out. When the engine
slowed to idle after landing the mixture was way to rich and the engine
flooded .
A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
awesome ride.
Steve Glasgow
Charlotte, NC
Message 3
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| Subject: | Why do we use VariPrime? |
--> RV-List message posted by: David Nelson <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi All,
Getting ready to start building (attended the George Orndoff's (sp?) class last
weekend - great experience!) and now I'm doing some homework w/ regards to
primers, tools, and such.
I've been reviewing manufacturer's spec sheets for various products and looking
them over. To my surprise, while reading DuPont's VariPrime tech manual it
clearly states under "Tips for Success" that "For optimum holdout and
performance, VariPrime 615S/625S" must always be primed or sealed prior to
topcoat application". So I called up DuPont and spoke to their tech support
(1-800-338-7668) and they were very firm that VariPrime should NOT be left
alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and 2)
it's very porous when left alone. So are VariPrime users putting something on
top that I'm not aware of? I'm not trying to be difficult here or start
another primer religious war - just trying to make right decisions based on
facts and best practices.
I then asked what they would recommend for such an application and they
recommended the "DuPont 2510S/2540S/2570S/2580CR Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer" line
of products which are available in a few colors (white, gray, dark gray, and
olive green).
Thanks,
/\/elson
RV-7A (soon, very soon)
Austin, TX
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: First Flight
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time,
I
> flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
> about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
> Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
> otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
>
> > SNIP
> A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
> this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
> adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
> awesome ride.
>
> Steve Glasgow
> Charlotte, NC
>
Congratulations Steve!
Nothing like a little excitment to make an already memoriable day even
more so. Always a few bugs to work out, which you'll have done in short
order.
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EMI update |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
In the -4 the panel is pretty close to your face so the digits are big
enough to read easily. This instrument would be the PERFECT choice for a
VFR cruise like Stien has done. For IFR you still need an Altimeter, and
probably an Airspeed Indicator might be would be good too, is all that is
needed. I keep all the info up on the Dynon even though I think I am using
the steam gauge altimeter as a primary source of altitude info.
One thing about the Dynon, the display is so accurate that your pitch and
roll are so stable the altitude and heading don't move around at all.
This is great technology, these are great times!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV8ter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EMI update
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
> Question. Are you also only really *using* the attitude indicator and not
> really using the rest of the info as Mike seemed to be implying he was?
Mike
> said he still used the other steam gauges for everything else, whatever
that
> means.
>
> When I see the unit, it looks like it would be hard to use the tape &
digital
> readouts due to their size and the display realestate being relatively
small.
> The impression I have is it looks like a neat option for IFR equipped
planes
> that don't want to fool with a vacuum attitude indicator and want backups
for
> the other steam gauges but not really right to be the primary display for
VFR
> guys who want to do away with round gauges all together.
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 8:10:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> dougr@petroblend.com writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> I have the Dynon and external mag sensor. About 50 hours on the unit and
> probably 30 on the mag sensor. I have a KX-155 Nav/Com. I can hear a
small
> difference in the noise when the Dynon is on vs off, but it is not a
problem
> at all my mag cable and power cable are shielded.
>
> My horizon works good, but not as good as Mike reports, mine will "quiver"
> from time to time, especially in turbulence.
>
> I too am very happy! This is a great instrument and a great value.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Steve,
I hate to bug you with questions so quickly after the magical event, but...
You mentioned the EIS failure was probably an alternator over-voltage that caused
an auto shutdown. If you're needing a loaner it sounds like it damaged the
EIS. Is that correct?
Am I being to picky here expecting an EIS to survive an overvoltage condition?
I'm still trying to decide on engine monitors and this would be good information.
Thanks.
Ken
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>a very short time and back to the hanger. We determined the EIS problem was
>probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
>auto shutdown. The engine quit because the idle mixture screw was missing.
>
>A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
>this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
>adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
>awesome ride.
>
>Steve Glasgow
>Charlotte, NC
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Does anyone know of a manufacturer of small stuff sacks, similar to what
one might put tent stakes in? I'm apparently not putting the correct
words into my searches.
Thanks,
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: HUMOR - are bigger engine's Chick Magnets |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
In a Jerry Lewis movie he was captain of a Ford Trimotor which had 3 pull
starters, so its been done before.
At 09:00 PM 10/30/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>So then Doug, as I see it, we have only one choice:
>
>Adapt a Johnson outboard motor to an RV or Rocket!! Now, the pull cord
>starter might be hard to manage from the cockpit, but we could adapt
>something. A set of floats, a cooler of beer, towels set out on the wings
>and voila...instant aviation fun at the lake!!
>
>As seen on T shirts: "Chicks dig a big Johnson"....except that WE would be
>swinging a big prop too!
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>350 hrs and chicks DO dig my paint scheme...especially the one that really
>counts...my WIFE!
>
>do not archive
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flamemaster tank sealant |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Last time I used it, it started to set in a few hours but took over night
to firm up and then a hard rubber consistancy in a few days.
At 04:46 PM 10/30/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
>
>I used it on my rudder and it cured fine. I think I left it alone over a
>weekend.
>
>Glenn in Arizona -9A Wings.
>Do not archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wilder, Scott" <SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Flamemaster tank sealant
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Wilder, Scott"
><SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
>>
>>
>> Anybody recently used the new flamemaster tank sealant? It is now 4
>> days later and the sealant is still soft. What is the hardness of this
>> stuff when fully cured & how soon do you suppose I can continue working?
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Hi Alex,
I like these a lot:
http://www.ripoffs.com/marine.htm
These are bigger:
http://www.arizonatools.com/catalog/browse/3586-2730-3833/?source=googleppc
I keep my headphones in something like this that was intended to be an
insulated lunch sack. It is padded, has a pocket on the front, is the
perfect size for a headset and two of them cost less then $10.00!
http://store.yahoo.com/gearlabs/hisiwiwapa.html
Here is something that might be closer to what you were looking for:
http://www.newtribe.com/bags.html
Good luck!
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: Larygagnon@aol.com
I would try camping and RV (the other kind) stores like Dick's, or sporting
goods stores.
Larry
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <abstraction@yahoo.com>
I just spoke to Gus at Van's about it and he agrees that insufficient
clamping is the problem and would not leave any gap that you can
see daylight through on this part. So I am going to try drilling out
(again) and finding some way to put an extra clamp on there.
David suggested vise-grips...I presume vise-grip c-clamps to get over
the spar flange? I don't think my hardware store carries those but I
will try to hunt them down because they look really useful for this
sort of thing.
Failing that, Gus said pop rivets would even be fine and would ensure
the parts stay together...hopefully it won't come to that.
Thanks for the replies,
Paul
__________________________________
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
Alex... 9 pages here...
http://www.rei.com/online/store/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1&storeId=8000&categoryId=4500447
and I've bought small ones at my local WalMart and Target stores. They are
usually in the camping section.
gil in Tucson
At 08:05 AM 10/31/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>Does anyone know of a manufacturer of small stuff sacks, similar to what
>one might put tent stakes in? I'm apparently not putting the correct
>words into my searches.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
Message 14
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| Subject: | tailwheel chains |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
some specific info for him?
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Green" <tomg@vansaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
> Dave, no, but in all of the years, I have never seen it... it would be
> interesting to know of an individual and how it happened... Tom
>
> Forwarded by: "Support" <support>
> Forwarded to: tomg
> Date forwarded: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:10:19 -0800
> Send reply to: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> To: "Van's Aircraft - Support" <support@vansaircraft.com>
> Subject: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
> Date sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:03:49 -0600
>
> There's been some discussion of tailwheel chains coming loose - with the
> Van's wire links being a persistent culprit. Has anyone taken the time to
> pass this on to you?
>
> David Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:12 AM
> Subject: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
> >
> > Awww geez, somebody was whining about getting back to building topics...
> and I thought this list was just for BS'ing.
> >
> > Anyway, regarding the chain length on your tailwheel, loose is better
than
> tight. Don't fret too much here, just take out one chain length from
being
> tight and call it good.
> >
> > If your chains hit the bottom of your rudder, you can add the eyebolts
to
> the rudder horns and tailwheel bellcrank if you like. And make sure to
put
> your springs on the tailwheel end, even though they look nicer on the top
> end. And if the chains still scratch the paint off of your rudder, cover
> the chains with shrink tubing. You can get shrink tubing at your
electrical
> supply store and it comes in many colors including clear.
> >
> > IMHO, throw those funny teardrop shaped wire links that Van supplied in
> the trash. I've seen too many of them come undone.
> >
> > Have fun... at least you know that you put the little wheel on the
correct
> end.
> >
> > Vince
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Jim Oke wrote:
> Sam,
>
> Could you please try and quantify which was the larger effect. IOW,
did the
> extra bark from the exhaust stacks drown out the extra wind "hiss"
from the
> tail or vice versa. Inquiring minds would like to know.
>
> Jim Oke
> RV-6A
> Wpg, MB
>
> (Thinking of taking a Dremel to my Vettermans any day now...)
Jim, no doubt the biggest gain is from the extra bark since a lot more
hot air is being expelled........! ;-)
I guess I am going to have to 'fess up. I thought it was very obvious
that this was just a bunch of bull but I am surprised at how many people
took this stuff seriously. I am getting requests for photos and hard
data about the "exhaust speed mods"!!
By the way, I would not suggest trimming the exhaust stacks; in my case
all it did was make the belly of the plane dirtier and created a bit
more noise in the cabin. And.....even though the plane looks a little
better without the stacks hanging down, there is no difference in top
speed that I can detect.
Guess I better not mention the special wax I use on the canopy to reduce
airflow friction......
Sam Buchanan
===========
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
>
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>>
>> Ed Holyoke wrote:
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> How much faster did it get when you trimmed the exhaust?
>>>
>>> Ed Holyoke
>>
>>
>> Not sure of the numbers Ed, but its gotta be a lot faster. I mean, those
>> turned down pipes were hangin' right out in the wind, and as fast as a
>> RV flies, we all know how just a little streamlining goes a long way. It
>> just looks a LOT faster when you sight down the fuse and can't see those
>> pipes because they are tucked up in the canopy air exit. Also, the way
>> the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
>> producing several more horsepower.
>>
>> It sorta reminds me of the speed I picked up when I got rid of those
>> draggy ol' tailwheel springs and chains and installed one of Terry
>> Jantzi's slick tailwheel linkages. I could almost hear the wind hissing
>> by the tail once those clanky spring and chains were gone.
>>
>> The guys at the hangar are convinced that my plane is one of the fastest
>> RV-6's around because of the speed mods, and they know I would never
>> tell them anything that isn't true.
>>
>> Sam Buchanan
>>
>> ===================
>>
>>>
>>>> When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
>>>
>>>
>>> was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
>>> couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
>>> stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
>>> with all that drag.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
>>>
>>>
>>> exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
>>> hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
>>> concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I have
>>> found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort. The
>>> degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
>>> Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
>>> plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
>>> Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
>>> piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every
rivet
>>>
>>> hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly
>>> anymore.....
>>>
>>> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
>>> north Alabama)
>>>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Flamemaster tank sealant |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" <davemader@bresnan.net>
I used it recently and it took well over a week to reach the consistency
that I hoped for.
Part of the problem was unusually cool temperatures in the shop and I used a
new postal
scale that was very inaccurate, in my opinion. Went back to the balance
beam type scale
and the stuff was a little darker, when mixed right....however, the first
batch (over a month ago)
finally set up to the right consistency. As Van's says "patience".
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flamemaster tank sealant
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Last time I used it, it started to set in a few hours but took over night
to firm up and then a hard rubber consistancy in a few days.
At 04:46 PM 10/30/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
>
>I used it on my rudder and it cured fine. I think I left it alone over a
>weekend.
>
>Glenn in Arizona -9A Wings.
>Do not archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wilder, Scott" <SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Flamemaster tank sealant
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Wilder, Scott"
><SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
>>
>>
>> Anybody recently used the new flamemaster tank sealant? It is now 4
>> days later and the sealant is still soft. What is the hardness of this
>> stuff when fully cured & how soon do you suppose I can continue working?
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
> ........So I called up DuPont and spoke to their tech support
> (1-800-338-7668) and they were very firm that VariPrime should NOT be left
> alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and
2)
> it's very porous when left alone. So are VariPrime users putting
something on
> top that I'm not aware of?......
> ........I then asked what they would recommend for such an application and
they
> recommended the "DuPont 2510S/2540S/2570S/2580CR Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer"
line
> of products which are available in a few colors (white, gray, dark gray,
and olive green).
I have completed all of the internal painting, including final paint in the
cabin. I use the Dupont two-part epoxy system - cleaner, metal conditioner,
thinner, primer and final paint (Imron). The only downside is setup time
for epoxy and cost (still good for value). All products work very well
together and have never caused a single problem. When you have predicable
results your quality, speed and reduced product usage (weight) will have
significant benefits.
Although I use Dupont, I think that other major products have comparable
benefits. Pick a good system and don't try to save steps - or cost. It's a
false economy. Check the Archives.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90 plus % Complete - Electrical
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
--> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
In a message dated 10/31/03 7:19:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
david.nelson@pobox.com writes:
> that VariPrime should NOT be left
> alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and 2)
> it's very porous when left alone.
David,
This is true for most primers. That is why they are called "primers" . By
design/formulation they are intended for substrate prep. and bonding of the final
finish. Not as a protective coating by itself.
Dale Ensing
Many years in the industrial coatings industry.
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel chains |
--> RV-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
Add me as a data point. After a landing (no differences in control noted)
found left spring dragging on ground, spring clip spread 90 deg in both
planes.
I ordered a few from Van's and now carry a spare on my keychain <g>.
Rob Acker (RV-6 flying)
do not archive
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
> I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
> chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone
> have some specific info for him?
>
> David Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Green" <tomg@vansaircraft.com>
> To: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>
>
>> Dave, no, but in all of the years, I have never seen it... it would be
>> interesting to know of an individual and how it happened... Tom
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Sam do you also use that special "prop wash?
Jerry
do not archive
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>Jim Oke wrote:
>
> > Sam,
> >
> > Could you please try and quantify which was the larger effect. IOW,
>did the
> > extra bark from the exhaust stacks drown out the extra wind "hiss"
>from the
> > tail or vice versa. Inquiring minds would like to know.
> >
> > Jim Oke
> > RV-6A
> > Wpg, MB
> >
> > (Thinking of taking a Dremel to my Vettermans any day now...)
>
>
>Jim, no doubt the biggest gain is from the extra bark since a lot more
>hot air is being expelled........! ;-)
>
>I guess I am going to have to 'fess up. I thought it was very obvious
>that this was just a bunch of bull but I am surprised at how many people
>took this stuff seriously. I am getting requests for photos and hard
>data about the "exhaust speed mods"!!
>
>By the way, I would not suggest trimming the exhaust stacks; in my case
>all it did was make the belly of the plane dirtier and created a bit
>more noise in the cabin. And.....even though the plane looks a little
>better without the stacks hanging down, there is no difference in top
>speed that I can detect.
>
>Guess I better not mention the special wax I use on the canopy to reduce
>airflow friction......
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>===========
>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
> >
> >
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> >>
> >> Ed Holyoke wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
> >>>
> >>> Sam,
> >>>
> >>> How much faster did it get when you trimmed the exhaust?
> >>>
> >>> Ed Holyoke
> >>
> >>
> >> Not sure of the numbers Ed, but its gotta be a lot faster. I mean, those
> >> turned down pipes were hangin' right out in the wind, and as fast as a
> >> RV flies, we all know how just a little streamlining goes a long way. It
> >> just looks a LOT faster when you sight down the fuse and can't see those
> >> pipes because they are tucked up in the canopy air exit. Also, the way
> >> the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
> >> producing several more horsepower.
> >>
> >> It sorta reminds me of the speed I picked up when I got rid of those
> >> draggy ol' tailwheel springs and chains and installed one of Terry
> >> Jantzi's slick tailwheel linkages. I could almost hear the wind hissing
> >> by the tail once those clanky spring and chains were gone.
> >>
> >> The guys at the hangar are convinced that my plane is one of the fastest
> >> RV-6's around because of the speed mods, and they know I would never
> >> tell them anything that isn't true.
> >>
> >> Sam Buchanan
> >>
> >> ===================
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
> >>> couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
> >>> stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
> >>> with all that drag.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
> >>> hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
> >>> concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I have
> >>> found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort. The
> >>> degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
> >>> Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
> >>> plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
> >>> Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
> >>> piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every
>rivet
> >>>
> >>> hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly
> >>> anymore.....
> >>>
> >>> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
> >>> north Alabama)
> >>>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <abstraction@yahoo.com>
After a brief infatuation with the 7A, I ended up building a 9A and now
have the preview plans for both airplanes. I don't really need the 7A
plans now, so if someone out there could use them you can have them.
You pay to ship it (they're not light), or pick it up from me in Mountain View,
CA.
As much as I would like to promote RVs and offer this only to prospective
builders, note that Van's will supposedly require you to buy a copy (any
airplane) of the preview plans by the time you buy the emp kit. So if you
haven't yet
taken the plunge, but think you probably will, I'm not sure this will help you
much. You might call and ask them though.
Reply off-list please.
Paul
__________________________________
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "D. Jones" <dljinia@yahoo.com>
List:
I'm attempting to get my -7A inspected this year.
It's going to come right down to the wire as to
whether I'm going to be ready or not. So I'm thinking
that a DAR might be more flexible than the FSDO.
Any recommendations for DAR in Iowa. I'm located in
Muscatine,IA. Feel free to respond offline to dljinia
at yahoo.com
Thanks,
Doug -7a Finish
http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
__________________________________
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flamemaster tank sealant |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Make it black, it starts to tack. Make it gray, it'll take all day.
Don't worry, I'm mostly joking. 8-)
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mader" <davemader@bresnan.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flamemaster tank sealant
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" <davemader@bresnan.net>
>
> I used it recently and it took well over a week to reach the consistency
> that I hoped for.
> Part of the problem was unusually cool temperatures in the shop and I used
a
> new postal
> scale that was very inaccurate, in my opinion. Went back to the balance
> beam type scale
> and the stuff was a little darker, when mixed right....however, the first
> batch (over a month ago)
> finally set up to the right consistency. As Van's says "patience".
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flamemaster tank sealant
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Last time I used it, it started to set in a few hours but took over night
> to firm up and then a hard rubber consistancy in a few days.
>
>
> At 04:46 PM 10/30/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
> >
> >I used it on my rudder and it cured fine. I think I left it alone over a
> >weekend.
> >
> >Glenn in Arizona -9A Wings.
> >Do not archive
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Wilder, Scott" <SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV-List: Flamemaster tank sealant
> >
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Wilder, Scott"
> ><SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> Anybody recently used the new flamemaster tank sealant? It is now 4
> >> days later and the sealant is still soft. What is the hardness of this
> >> stuff when fully cured & how soon do you suppose I can continue
working?
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you shortened the
pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed increase?
But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the pipes, but not at
the expense of more noize..
Mark
Sam Buchanan wrote:
the way the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
> producing several more horsepower.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Email list vs. Web forum |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jake L. Wegman" <jake@ultrex.com>
For those of you who have never used a web based forum needs to informed of
several key benefits:
1st - [structured topics] - Painting/Priming topics can be kept separate
from engine/accessory topics. This is very beneficial when you want to
focus on a particular task.
2nd - [searchable content] - Items of interest are much easier found when
like topics are contained. Searching a mailing list of news group is very
limited and time consuming.
3rd - [Low "noise to signal" ratio] - Again, focus on topics that are
important to you. When it's time to focus on another topic, that
information is stored in an easy to find manner in their respective forum
"group".
4th - [Convenience of getting the information anytime, anywhere] (where
there is an Internet connected computer.) - Want a chance to look up a topic
while at the office then pick that reading up again when you go home?
5th - [Personal Messages] - Termed "PM's" - these are mini-emails sent from
one user of the forum to another without tying up your e-mail mailbox.
Don't you get enough e-mail as it is?
6th - [Protect your e-mail address] - as Dave pointed out, web forums do NOT
reveal your e-mail address. You NEVER have to give your e-mail address in a
message. Internet spiders cannot gain that information because it wasn't
used in the message in the first place!
Web based forums are a central way of holding discussions. If you think
about it, mailing lists for our purpose are antiquated. Why should a single
topic result in a few thousand e-mails? That's just ridiculous...
As an exercise, I've setup a web based forum for the education of this
group. If you are so inclined, please visit:
http://forums.happyhangar.com
I've created an "RVs" category with the following subjects:
"Painting/Priming"
"Engine/Accessories"
"Avionics"
"Airframe"
"Finishing"
These forums have been configured so that an anonymous guest does NOT need
to register to read the forums (that can be changed). In order to post a
message, you will need to register for an account. The registration process
asks for a username, e-mail address, and password. You also have the
ability to fill out the rest of the account profile to give others more
information about yourself. (When you post a message, readers can easily
bring up your profile from that message)
Feel free to register for an account and give it a try. If this is
something that you guys want to use, by all means use it - the server that
it's hosted on is around for the long haul as it also serves as a picture
gallery for a local R/C club...
Again, if you can squeeze the trigger on a rivet gun, you can use a web
based forum.
regards,
Jake Wegman - RV-8 emp
chrisw3@cox.net wrote:
>I really don't get the web based discussion forums. My only guess
as to why they
>exist at all is because those who start them don't have the server
resources
>to do a mailing list or news group. IMO mailing lists and news
groups are much
>easier to use than the web based discussion forums.
rvl@davepar.com wrote:
>> As long as were discussing IM (ok, the discussion got way off
IM), I was wondering
>>why such an active discussion is happening over an email list. How
about
>>a web-based discussion forum?
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Trust me it well make more noise. I am thinking of adding to mine again
to reduce noise.
Jerry
do not archive
Mark Phillips wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
>Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you shortened the
>pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed increase?
>
>But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the pipes, but not at
>the expense of more noize..
>
>Mark
>
>Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> the way the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
>
>
>>producing several more horsepower.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Mark Phillips wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you shortened the
> pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed increase?
>
> But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the pipes, but not at
> the expense of more noize..
>
> Mark
Mark, I noticed the additional "bark" the first few flights, mostly
during climbs, but I don't notice it anymore ('cause of the deafness??).
I trimmed off most of the downturn, but I wouldn't take off that much
because of the resulting exhaust deposits on the belly of the plane. You
probably can take off enough to keep the pipes from protruding beneath
the cowl and still have a little downturn.
Sam Buchanan (huh....whadja say...????)
===============
>
> Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> the way the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
>
>>producing several more horsepower.
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Steve,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:27:45 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time, I
>flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
>about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
>Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
>otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi Dale,
Exactly. Of the limited frames/interiors I've seen there doesn't appear to be
any top coat applied. Am I mistaken and not seeing what I think I'm seeing?
/\/elson
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 DWENSING@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/31/03 7:19:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> david.nelson@pobox.com writes:
>
>
> > that VariPrime should NOT be left
> > alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and 2)
> > it's very porous when left alone.
>
> David,
> This is true for most primers. That is why they are called "primers" . By
> design/formulation they are intended for substrate prep. and bonding of the final
> finish. Not as a protective coating by itself.
> Dale Ensing
> Many years in the industrial coatings industry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: 180hp Sensenich Prop for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Thanks to all who expressed interest and several who made offers for my prop.
I sold it a couple days ago for $1575.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...soon to have new blended airfoil Hartzell on the nose...yeeeehaaaw!!
From: "jtb1" <jtb1@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: 180hp Sensenich Prop for Sale
--> RV-List message posted by: "jtb1" <jtb1@prodigy.net>
Mark,
If the offer you have on your prop for $1,500 should fall through for
any reason I would be interested in it for the same price.
Jack Bombard
----- Original Message -----
From: <czechsix@juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: 180hp Sensenich Prop for Sale
| --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
|
|
| FOR SALE:
|
| Almost-new Sensenich prop, 180 hp O-360 model # 72FM8S9-1-87, S/N 33984.
The prop only has a couple flights on it since brand new before it was
removed for replacement with a constant-speed prop. There are NO nicks in
the leading edge and the paint looks pretty good. With 87" of pitch, this
prop is a good cruise prop...there's a lot in the archives about various
pitch options, no point in rehashing it all here, but if you have questions
feel free to contact me off list...it can of course be repitched if desired.
|
| I am asking $1650 for it, this includes the spacer, bolts, prop log and
shipping/insurance anywhere in the contiguous 48 U.S. states. I could also
ship it to Sensenich if a buyer wanted it inspected and/or repitched, and
Sensenich could then forward it to the buyer.
|
| I'll also throw in the front spinner bulkhead (brand new and undrilled)
for the Sensenich prop installation if the buyer needs it. This is P/N
S-605 SEN and is a $52 part.
|
| I'd be happy to entertain any reasonable offers if I don't get any takers
at $1650.
|
| Please contact me OFF LIST if interested.
|
| --Mark Navratil
| Cedar Rapids, Iowa
| day (319) 295-9390
| eve (319) 393-4234
| e-mail: czechsix@juno.com
|
| Do Not Archive
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Drilling canopy frame first |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Gang, I've looked in the archives and came up with a couple posts where
people drilled the slider canopy frame first then back drill the canopy. Is
there anyone willing to comment on this practice. It would seem to me that
you would be able to assure nice center punched holes in the frame with this
method. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill here??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Drilling canopy frame first-amended |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
I didn't mean "back drill" the canopy but meant to say drill through the
canopy into the pre drilled canopy frame holes with a plexi bit.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight (no, not the Wrights...) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Scott,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight (no, not the Wrights...)
>Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:37:16 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
>
>Well, the FAA came out Tuesday Oct 28 and told me that I had an airplane
>instead
>of a kit. Yesterday we proved them correct...
>
>After a 7 year gestation and 10 month labor and delivery, RV-8A
>"N-8-8-9-Bravo-Sierra" (S/N 80077) took to the skies on a crystal clear
>Fall
>afternoon in Memphis, TN. But more about that after the important stuff
>(the
>thank-yous and acknowledgments!)
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: room for massive manhood |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Vince,
Haven't heard from you in awhile... what's the ETA on your Rocket?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier@usi.edu>
Subject: RV-List: room for massive manhood
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
>
> SNIP Vince, Us RV-4 pilots know that you Rocket pilots (and that
includes Gummi
> > Bear) are really just trying to compensate for smaller appendages....
> > ;-}
> >
> > "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Chuck SNIP
>
> Chuck,
> I built and flew an RV-4. It is/was a fine, fine airplane. It just
didn't have enough COCKpit room or horsepower to haul around my.....
>
> Never mind. You get the picture!
>
> And since GummiBear is a former fighter jock, he probably needs even more
horsepower.
>
> No flames. No malice. Yes, Chuck and I will still speak to each other.
Appologies to the list police. And if this isn't funny or is too crude...
waaah.
>
> Vince,
> swinging a big Rocket
> do not archive
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Interesting point that I've pondered....
Both my -6 exhausts that I ordered from Vetterman in the last year (O-360 &
O-320) had NO downturn on the outlet, and are straight back. I've often
wondered but never asked Larry why some of them I see have the downturn, and
mine are straight! Are all the new ones straight??
I really don't notice the noise that much, both planes are fully insulated,
and I now have the ANR conversion in my old David Clarks that pretty much
gets rid of that problem!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Mark Phillips wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you shortened the
> pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed
increase?
>
> But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the pipes, but not at
> the expense of more noize..
>
> Mark
Mark, I noticed the additional "bark" the first few flights, mostly
during climbs, but I don't notice it anymore ('cause of the deafness??).
I trimmed off most of the downturn, but I wouldn't take off that much
because of the resulting exhaust deposits on the belly of the plane. You
probably can take off enough to keep the pipes from protruding beneath
the cowl and still have a little downturn.
Sam Buchanan (huh....whadja say...????)
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Too Late Sam...... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
By the way, I would not suggest trimming the
exhaust stacks; in my case
all it did was make the belly of the plane
dirtier and created a bit
more noise in the cabin. And.....even though
the plane looks a little
better without the stacks hanging down, there
is no difference in top
speed that I can detect.
Guess I better not mention the special wax I
use on the canopy to reduce
airflow friction......
Sam Buchanan
It's too late Sam.
Every one already has them cut off.
As soon as you said more speed, everyone started trying to think of where they
left the Hack saw the last time they
used it.
When noise was mentioned, they smiled and thought of the new ANL headset they bought
in Oshkosh.
They are even talking about it now on the Peitenpol list...
Phil
Do not archive
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <abstraction@yahoo.com>
These are now taken.
__________________________________
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | RE: New Parts for Sale |
SMTPD_IN_RCVD
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim M." <nebrrv8@earthlink.net>
Hi All,
Decided to go with a Dynon in the panel of my RV-8 so I have some NEW
parts I don't need.
Aero Heated Pitot Tube - NEW in Box
PH502-12CR (AN5812-12)
Paid $430.00 Let go for $345.00
ACK A-30 Encoder - NEW in Box
Paid $177.00 Let go for $141.00
UMA-3-200-10 1" Gyro Suction Gauge - NEW in Box
Paid $70.00 Let go for $56
All parts are new in box.
Above prices plus shipping.
Respond off-list to nebrrv8@earthlink.net
Thanks,
Jim Muegge
Wiring Panel
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Flamemaster tank sealant |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> I used it recently and it took well over a week to reach the
> consistency that I hoped for. Part of the problem was
> unusually cool temperatures in the shop
The time for most chemical reactions to happen doubles for each 10C
temperature drop. So, proseal used in a shop at about 50F would take
about twice as long as at 68F.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Too Late Sam...... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
>
> By the way, I would not suggest trimming the
> exhaust stacks; in my case
> all it did was make the belly of the plane
> dirtier and created a bit
> more noise in the cabin. And.....even though
> the plane looks a little
> better without the stacks hanging down, there
> is no difference in top
> speed that I can detect.
>
> Guess I better not mention the special wax I
> use on the canopy to reduce
> airflow friction......
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
> It's too late Sam.
>
> Every one already has them cut off.
>
> As soon as you said more speed, everyone started trying to think of where they
left the Hack saw the last time they
> used it.
>
> When noise was mentioned, they smiled and thought of the new ANL headset they
bought in Oshkosh.
>
> They are even talking about it now on the Peitenpol list...
>
> Phil
>
> Do not archive
Ah, yes, the holy grail of Peitenpoldom.......a 100mph noisy airplane! :-)
Sam
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Too Late Sam...... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
I'm wondering if cutting the downturns off at an angle so as to focus the
sound down and away while reducing the drag a bit might have any value.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Subject: RV-List: Too Late Sam......
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
<sisson@consolidated.net>
>
> By the way, I would not suggest trimming the
> exhaust stacks; in my case
> all it did was make the belly of the plane
> dirtier and created a bit
> more noise in the cabin. And.....even though
> the plane looks a little
> better without the stacks hanging down, there
> is no difference in top
> speed that I can detect.
>
> Guess I better not mention the special wax I
> use on the canopy to reduce
> airflow friction......
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
> It's too late Sam.
>
> Every one already has them cut off.
>
> As soon as you said more speed, everyone started trying to think of where
they left the Hack saw the last time they
> used it.
>
> When noise was mentioned, they smiled and thought of the new ANL headset
they bought in Oshkosh.
>
> They are even talking about it now on the Peitenpol list...
>
> Phil
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
--> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com
I've got a set of RV-7 preview plans if someone wants them.
Free for the asking,
Bryon Crook
RV-9A Emp.
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Too Late Sam...... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
>By the way, I would not suggest trimming the exhaust stacks; in my case
>all it did was make the belly of the plane dirtier and created a bit
>more noise in the cabin.....
I did that. I have the curved-down Vetterman exhaust on Suzie Q (-4) and
thought it would look better and maybe go faster if I trimmed the ends a
bit. Bad idea. It made a whole lot more of a mess on the belly: exhaust
stains, interestingly enough, mostly on the center to right side of the
belly. It also made more of a difference (increase) in the cockpit noise
and vibration felt through the floor. I called Larry and he brought me
over a new set of end curves for NOTHING. What a guy. He may not do this
now, however, if 158 people from the list write him asking for exhaust
extensions that they sawed off. Or, he may ask Sam to pay for them as he
started this mess in the first place. <G>
Course, then you have to take the exhaust off and saw off the old
extensions, and have the new ones welded on again. AOG in the meantime.
I think the exhaust looks kind of cool sticking out from the cowl, those
four stacks. P-51 has 12 stacks sticking out and it doesn't seem to slow
it down much. It has a little more horsepower, perhaps, helping things
along, but still.....
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Drilling canopy frame first |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant@sw.rr.com>
I would recommend against it, I think. When ou drill the slider canopy to
the frame, you want to do that at the exact spot where the canopy contacts
the frame. You can see a slight distortion in the plexi when press the
canopy agains the steel - thats where the hole goes. It would be very
difficult to locate all the holes in the right places beforehand. It works
pretty good to do the standard thing and drill them as you go. Just take
your time and switch drill bits a lot.
Good luck,
Jordan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RV-List: Drilling canopy frame first
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Gang, I've looked in the archives and came up with a couple posts where
people drilled the slider canopy frame first then back drill the canopy. Is
there anyone willing to comment on this practice. It would seem to me that
you would be able to assure nice center punched holes in the frame with this
method. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill here??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Too Late Sam...... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Too Late Sam......
Sam, et al: I have enjoyed the levity on this thread. I can also say
that I cut the downturns off the crossover exhaust on my unpainted RV-4
and soon found that the combustion byproducts and the aluminum were not
a good combination. Paint surely would be less vulnerable but over the
long term might suffer as well. Without the downturns the flow tends to
remain attached to the fuselage and as someone has said, curves off on
the right side of the tailcone. An amusing sidebar: Dan Gilbert tried
the same thing on his formula one racer "Shadow" and since he was
sitting directly on the floor, he soon had a real hot seat. Aside from
generously fried buns he was concerned about structural damage to the
compost, er, composite fuselage. He changed it back.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 46
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
As soon as I get the thing built I will.
Pedro
Oldsfolks@aol.com wrote:
I too need a good picture of the RV-4 canopy cylinder installation.
If you would post the photos to the Matronics Photo List it might help a bunch
of us,
Thanks,
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
---------------------------------
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
I've wondered the same about mine. Maybe someday I'll try those picilo
exhaust ends I've seen in ACS if the noise is too much...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stein Bruch [mailto:stein@steinair.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:06 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Interesting point that I've pondered....
>
> Both my -6 exhausts that I ordered from Vetterman in the last
> year (O-360 &
> O-320) had NO downturn on the outlet, and are straight back.
> I've often wondered but never asked Larry why some of them I
> see have the downturn, and mine are straight! Are all the
> new ones straight??
>
> I really don't notice the noise that much, both planes are
> fully insulated, and I now have the ANR conversion in my old
> David Clarks that pretty much gets rid of that problem!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6's, Minneapolis
>
> http://www.steinair.com
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Mark Phillips wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
> >
> > Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you
> shortened the
> > pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed
> increase?
> >
> > But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the
> pipes, but not
> > at the expense of more noize..
> >
> > Mark
>
>
> Mark, I noticed the additional "bark" the first few flights,
> mostly during climbs, but I don't notice it anymore ('cause
> of the deafness??).
>
> I trimmed off most of the downturn, but I wouldn't take off
> that much because of the resulting exhaust deposits on the
> belly of the plane. You probably can take off enough to keep
> the pipes from protruding beneath the cowl and still have a
> little downturn.
>
> Sam Buchanan (huh....whadja say...????)
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
>
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
Steve:
Congrats on your first flight. Come to INT (Winston Salem) sometime ...
let's fly !!!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
160 hrs
Message 49
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Fellow RV'ers:
As you are probably aware, Meigs Field in Chicago was closed this year due mayor
Richard Daley authorizing the bulldozing of the runway. His intent being to
turn the property into another lakeside park.
At present, the city of Chicago does not have a design or general plan for the
such a proposed park.
The Friends of Meigs, an organization that has been working hard to preserve Meigs,
has come up with a plan to reopen Meigs as a skypark and Chicago Air Museum.
The first step toward this goal is to request of the Chicago City Council an opportunity
to present the Friends of Meigs proposal at an open hearing.
Please take a moment to visit the Friends of Meigs website at:
www.friendsofmeigs.org
There you will see the design of the proposal for the property, and the methods
that are available to fund such a project without involving City of Chicago tax
dollars.
You can also make your views heard by signing an online petition to get the process
of reopening Meigs started.
I must note that I am not affiliated with the Friends of Meigs. I am just a general
aviation pilot who would love to take my wife to dinner in downtown Chicago
by flying her there in my RV someday.
I am sure that there are many of you out there that feel the same way.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
canopy
Peshtigo, WI
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry" <jdoyal@sport.rr.com>
I would like to have the preview plans if they haven't been spoken for.
Jerry Doyal
1-800-221-3418
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BGCrook@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans
--> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com
I've got a set of RV-7 preview plans if someone wants them.
Free for the asking,
Bryon Crook
RV-9A Emp.
==
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Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Kevin,
What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
but do not have to BE TSO'd.
Mike
>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>Great stuff Mike.
>
>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
> >Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>here
> >it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
> >delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
> >
> >Mike Robertson
> >
> >
> >HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
> >By Mike Robertson
> >
> >Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
> >and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
> >some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
> >unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>means
> >Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
> >requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
> >there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>equipment
> >must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
> >somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>this
> >article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>issued
> >an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
> >operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>amended.
> >
> >Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
> >operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
> >Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
> >airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>7
> >of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>aircraft
> >and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
> >Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
> >
> >This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>and
> >instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>equipment
> >requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>the
> >airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
> >operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>to
> >issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
> >safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
> >limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>The
> >ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>interest
> >of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
> >limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
>are
> >understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>can
> >require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
> >prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
> >
> >1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
> >2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>appropriately
> >equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>this
> >aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
> >3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
> >under 91.205 must
> >be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>91.
> >Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
> >aircraft maintenance records.
> >
> >To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
> >What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>is
> >prudent or safe?
> >
> >So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
> >effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
> >equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
> >states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
> >that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
> >transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>that
> >the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
> >environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class
>of
> >TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
> >the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
> >that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>must
> >meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>and
> >calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
> >notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
> >equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
> >not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>could
> >build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
> >requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
> >
> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>91.205(a)
> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>conjunction
> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>the
> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>on
> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>up
> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>requirements
> >prior to operating the aircraft.
> >
> >Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>per
> >the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
> >appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>with
> >91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
> >Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
> >flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>In
> >paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
> >day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
> >talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>that
> >they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>requirements
> >of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
>from
> >the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
> >FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about
>a
> >TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
>that
> >for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>the
> >IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
> >also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
> >system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to
>be
> >used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
> >sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>displaying
> >hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>capacity,
> >a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>gyroscopic
> >direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
> >91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
> >VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
> >Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
> >pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>aircraft.
> >
> >So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
> >items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>remember
> >that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>where
> >our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
> >amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>your
> >family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
> >during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
> >and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
> >Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
> >category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>FAA
> >through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
> >manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
> >equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>standards.
> >
> >In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
> >want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>concern
> >when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
> >certificate.
> >
> >Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
> >patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
> >
>
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
I'm working on it but don't hold your breath. I am only one of the lowly
peon inspectors at this time..
Mike Robertson
Do Not Archive
>From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:38:53 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
>
>Thanks, Mike, for a very succinct, logical, and important study of the
>IFR-in-hombuilts issue. Very well done. This is a great document and
>guide
>for those contemplating IFR in their airplane. One would think that you
>work for the FAA! Can you make this the official FAA position paper on the
>subject?
>
>Thanks again.
>
>do not archive
>
>Pat Hatch
>RV-4
>RV-6
>RV-7 QB (Building)
>Vero Beach, FL
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
> > Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>here
> > it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time
>to
> > delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
> >
> > Mike Robertson
> >
> >
> > HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
> > By Mike Robertson
> >
> > Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built
>aircraft
> > and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
> > some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
> > unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>means
> > Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
> > requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
> > there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>equipment
> > must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
> > somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>this
> > article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>issued
> > an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
> > operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>amended.
> >
> > Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
> > operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
> > Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
> > airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>7
> > of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>aircraft
> > and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
> > Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
> >
> > This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>and
> > instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>equipment
> > requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>the
> > airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
> > operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>to
> > issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
> > safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
> > limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>The
> > ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>interest
> > of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
> > limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
>are
> > understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>can
> > require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
> > prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
> >
> > 1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
> > 2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>appropriately
> > equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>this
> > aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
> > 3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under
>91.205 must
> > be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>91.
> > Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
> > aircraft maintenance records.
> >
> > To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
> > What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>is
> > prudent or safe?
> >
> > So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
> > effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
> > equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
> > states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an
>ELT
> > that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
> > transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>that
> > the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
> > environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any
>class
>of
> > TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate,
>or
> > the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
> > that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>must
> > meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>and
> > calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
> > notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
> > equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
> > not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>could
> > build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
> > requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
> >
> > You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>91.205(a)
> > states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an
>approved
> > safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
> > typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
> > Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>conjunction
> > with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>the
> > Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>on
> > the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is
>expected
> > that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
> > equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
> > considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>up
> > to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>requirements
> > prior to operating the aircraft.
> >
> > Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>per
> > the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
> > appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>with
> > 91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
> > Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
> > flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>In
> > paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required
>for
> > day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and
>(c)(3)
> > talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>that
> > they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>requirements
> > of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
>from
> > the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements
>of
> > FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything
>about
>a
> > TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
>that
> > for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>the
> > IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
> > also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio
>communications
> > system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities
>to
>be
> > used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
> > sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>displaying
> > hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>capacity,
> > a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>gyroscopic
> > direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
> > 91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using
>a
> > VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
> > Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
> > pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>aircraft.
> >
> > So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
> > items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>remember
> > that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>where
> > our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
> > amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>your
> > family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
> > during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the
>aircraft
> > and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
> > Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
> > category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>FAA
> > through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
> > manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
> > equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>standards.
> >
> > In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
> > want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>concern
> > when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
> > certificate.
> >
> > Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
> > patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
> >
> >
>
>
Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access.
Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service
providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Thanks Sam.
I don't how many DARs read this list. So I am going to attempt to get this
article published within some of the FAA circles. We'll see
Mike Robertson
Do Not Archive
>From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:18:06 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>Mike Robertson wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
> > Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>here
> > it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time
>to
> > delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
> >
> > Mike Robertson
><very large snip of good information>
>
>Mike, thanks for the submission of your interpretation of the FARS in
>regard to IFR ops in an experimental aircraft. This matter confuses a
>lot of people, and I can't count the number of times I have heard
>builders refer to getting an "IFR Certification" for their experimental
>aircraft. I found it interesting that your views parallel very closely
>the opinion of the EAA; here is a link to the EAA position on IFR ops in
>experimental aircraft:
>
>http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/_borders/IFR%20equipment.pdf
>
>Unfortunately, it appears that to a large degree the effort needed to
>get an airworthiness certificate is still dictated by the individual
>DAR. As has been stated on this list, and stated in your post in regards
>to "approved" equipment, there are some DARs that have personal opinions
>on what is acceptable for IFR ops and those opinions are not based on a
>working understanding of the relevant FARs. Such a DAR can make life
>miserable for the builder who is not up to speed on his/her rights under
>the FARs.
>
>I strongly suggest that any builder who wants to have the ability to
>file IFR flight plans in their experimental aircraft to first educate
>themselves on the FARs, then get in touch with a local DAR........NOW.
>Feel out the DAR to get an idea of what they expect to see in your panel
>and if the DAR has a clue as to what the FARs have to say in this
>regard. If you don't like what you hear, then find another DAR. Waiting
>until you are ready for the first flight is too late to find out that
>your DAR is clueless as to what AHRS means, or that they think
>everything in the panel has to have the blessing of a TSO. The ignorant
>DARs are out there, you need to find them before you end up in a bind.
>
>Doug Reeves has a list of DARs with which RV builders have had a good
>experience:
>
>http://65.219.228.161/dar.htm
>
>Thanks again, Mike, and hopefully this will help bring all DARs up to
>speed on this critical issue!
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
What Bill said in his email is very correct. If your DAR gives you problems
then have him look at Part 23 of the regs for lights illumination
requirements. If they meet the requirements of that then he, the DAR, can
"approve" them.
Mike Robertson
>From: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:54:33 -0500 (EST)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
>
>First I'll simply say "wow", and thank you for this effort. This is
>great information! I do have a question (and this has nothing to do
>with ancient computers). :)
>
>In the section I quote below you say :
>
>On Wed Oct 29 12:01:27 2003, Mike Robertson wrote :
> >[ ... snip ... ]
> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>91.205(a)
> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>conjunction
> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>the
> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>on
> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>up
> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>requirements
> >prior to operating the aircraft.
> >[ ... snip ... ]
>
>Where I'm trying to puzzle out the details is with respect to things like
>the new integrated LED position lights which Bill VonDane and Bill Dube are
>making available. While I am unsure as of yet whether I'm going to build
>my RV for IFR or not, I don't want to make choices which categorically rule
>IFR operation out. I _do_ know I like the perceived higher reliability
>that the LED solution seems to bring to the table.
>
>I'm trying to parse the section quoted above and what I get from this is
>that
>if the DAR gives you your certificate and does *not*, for whatever reason,
>include any limitations regarding your choice of lights ... you are good to
>go. The assumption is that unless explicitly noted they are, by definition,
>approved.
>
>If my interpretation is right, this begs the question of how do we know
>that
>a DAR will NOT include limitations regarding your position lights unless
>you
>purchase and install units which have _clearly_ approved previously by the
>FAA? If I install the spiffy LED position lights, will I have a chance of
>being limited from IFR ops in my RV? Any clue? Or is it a case of you pay
>your money and take your chances?
>
> -- Dwight
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Painting the Airplane |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Go to Van's pages where you can find a 3-view drawing of your plane.
Print this page, cut off the non-drawing parts, then scan it back into
your computer and save it as a bitmap (.bmp) file. (I couldn't find any
way to save it directly as a .bmp file - maybe someone else can help with
this).
Now open your saved file with your Paint program and you can draw various
color schemes. Save each one as a different file name so that you can
always come back to your original blank file.
When you have one that you like, overlay it with a grid to help in
transferring it to the plane.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
Original message:
>
> Can anyone offer any assistance/advice about
> designing a
> paint scheme? I have the paper line drawings that Mark
> Frederick (or someone)
> came up with, but was wondering if there is a computer
> program that the complete
> idiot could run?
Message 56
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| Subject: | Painting the Airplane |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz@vitez.net>
Those images are all .gif, which Paint should be able to handle (eg. I
can open 'em directly there). You can just right-click on the image and
choose "Save picture as.." and then work on it in Paint (or just about
any other imaging software).
HTH.
Radomir
RV-7A Emp.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j1j2h3@juno.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Painting the Airplane
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Go to Van's pages where you can find a 3-view drawing of your plane.
Print this page, cut off the non-drawing parts, then scan it back into
your computer and save it as a bitmap (.bmp) file. (I couldn't find any
way to save it directly as a .bmp file - maybe someone else can help
with
this).
Now open your saved file with your Paint program and you can draw
various
color schemes. Save each one as a different file name so that you can
always come back to your original blank file.
When you have one that you like, overlay it with a grid to help in
transferring it to the plane.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
Original message:
>
> Can anyone offer any assistance/advice about
> designing a
> paint scheme? I have the paper line drawings that Mark
> Frederick (or someone)
> came up with, but was wondering if there is a computer
> program that the complete
> idiot could run?
=
==
==
==
==
Message 57
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--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Thanks Jeff for posting this- only 588 folks have signed on as of
midnight on Halloween- let's all get on board!!!!!!
www.friendsofmeigs.org
Mark - do not archive
Jeff Orear wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
>
> Fellow RV'ers:
>
> As you are probably aware, Meigs Field in Chicago was closed this year due mayor
Richard Daley authorizing the bulldozing of the runway. His intent being
to turn the property into another lakeside park.
>
> At present, the city of Chicago does not have a design or general plan for the
such a proposed park.
>
> The Friends of Meigs, an organization that has been working hard to preserve
Meigs, has come up with a plan to reopen Meigs as a skypark and Chicago Air Museum.
>
> The first step toward this goal is to request of the Chicago City Council an
opportunity to present the Friends of Meigs proposal at an open hearing.
>
> Please take a moment to visit the Friends of Meigs website at:
>
> www.friendsofmeigs.org
>
> There you will see the design of the proposal for the property, and the methods
that are available to fund such a project without involving City of Chicago
tax dollars.
>
> You can also make your views heard by signing an online petition to get the process
of reopening Meigs started.
>
> I must note that I am not affiliated with the Friends of Meigs. I am just a
general aviation pilot who would love to take my wife to dinner in downtown Chicago
by flying her there in my RV someday.
>
> I am sure that there are many of you out there that feel the same way.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> canopy
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 58
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Morawski" <brett.morawski@buckeye-express.com>
For anyone interested the crude 3D models I made of the RV8 can now be
downloaded from:
http://www.geocities.com/brett_morawski/rv.html?1067665891627
This is a free site so I don't know how long it will be available.
Brett Morawski
RV 8 emp, waiting on wings.
Toledo, OH
Message 59
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| Subject: | All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers!
A number of Listers have been asking for some Matronics Email List online
chat and NOW ITS HERE! Over the last couple of days I've set up a nifty
web-based Chat site here on the Matronics systems. No special programs to
download; all you need is a late model web browser like Internet Explorer
or Netscape with a java plugin. I would recommend downloading the latest
Java plugin if you experience any problems getting the page to come
up. Here's a link to the Sun Java download
website. http://java.com/en/index.jsp Look for the green box with the
yellow arrow in the upper right corner. Before you bother, though, just
try you browser because it'll probably just work.
Each Email List on Matronics has its own "Room" and all rooms can easily be
accessed from the same client. In the Email List URL Trailer at the bottom
of each List message, you'll find the Link to this List's specific Chat
Room. Just click on the Link, and then type in your name or email address
in the User Name box. Try to use a name or email address that the other
Listers know you by. You'll find me lurking around the various List chat
rooms as "MattDralle".
There's a couple of nifty features I'll explain right off. On the main
Chat Window page after you login, you'll see a little icon with a Hammer
and a Screwdriver. This is the Control Panel window. Once the Control
Panel comes up, click on the "Settings" tab. Here you'll find, among other
things, three check boxes to enable sound. Click all three and you'll be
treated to a sound whenever someone enters or leaves the Room, or when
someone sends a message.
The other cool button is the one that has four little arrows pointing to
each of the four corners of the button. This will rip the main Chat window
from the web page and allow you to resize and move it anyway you'd like.
Let's have some fun and get to know one another better using this awesome
new Chat Room! To get started, just click the URL Link below for this
List's specific Chat Room!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
PS - I'm working on a web link interface to the chat logfiles. Coming soon...
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