Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (Kevin Horton)
2. 07:09 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime? (czechsix@juno.com)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans (BGCrook@aol.com)
4. 07:30 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime? (BGCrook@aol.com)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime? - QB kits (thomas a. sargent)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? (michael michael)
7. 08:36 AM - EFIS-D10 Help! (Fred Stucklen)
8. 10:19 AM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (Larry Bowen)
9. 12:12 PM - Alodine & Anodine (Dave Smith)
10. 12:44 PM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (Kenneth Beene)
11. 12:47 PM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (Sam Buchanan)
12. 01:06 PM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (Jeff Point)
13. 01:31 PM - 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
14. 01:45 PM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (Larry Bowen)
15. 01:48 PM - Re: Alodine & Anodine (John Brick)
16. 02:50 PM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (Sam Buchanan)
17. 02:59 PM - GlareFromWing (DAVID REEL)
18. 03:05 PM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (Sam Buchanan)
19. 03:10 PM - Re: EFIS-D10 Help! (N223RV@aol.com)
20. 03:14 PM - "First Flight" (I-K Technologies (Ralph Krongold))
21. 04:33 PM - Strobes (austin)
22. 04:38 PM - Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (more questions) (Charlie & Tupper England)
23. 05:23 PM - Re: "First Flight" (Randy Lervold)
24. 05:24 PM - Re: Email list vs. Web forum (Kevin Horton)
25. 05:42 PM - Re: "First Flight" (Terry Watson)
26. 06:08 PM - Re: Alodine & Anodine (Gert)
27. 08:02 PM - Re: Fw: Fw: tailwheel chains (Charlie & Tupper England)
28. 08:03 PM - Tailsprings (Wheeler North)
29. 08:24 PM - Re: Alodine & Anodize (Charlie Kuss)
30. 08:24 PM - Re: Strobes (Charlie Kuss)
31. 08:57 PM - Cracked FAB mounting plate (Alex Peterson)
32. 09:39 PM - Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
33. 09:42 PM - Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate (Stein Bruch)
34. 10:30 PM - Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
35. 11:02 PM - Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate (Stein Bruch)
36. 11:33 PM - Re: paint and engine exhaust (j1j2h3@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
But practically speaking, this means the IFR GPS must be TSO'd.
If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the
manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type
certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a
hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO
requirements.
Kevin Horton
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>
>Kevin,
>
>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
>
>Mike
>
>
>>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>>Great stuff Mike.
>>
>>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
>>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
>>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
>>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
>>
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
>>
>> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>> >
>> >Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
>> >Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>>here
>> >it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
>> >delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
>> >
>> >Mike Robertson
>> >
>> >
>> >HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
>> >By Mike Robertson
>> >
>> >Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
>> >and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
>> >some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
>> >unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>>means
>> >Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
>> >requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
>> >there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>>equipment
>> >must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
>> >somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>>this
>> >article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>>issued
>> >an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
>> >operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>>amended.
>> >
>> >Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
>> >operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
>> >Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
>> >airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>>7
>> >of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>>aircraft
>> >and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
>> >Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
>> >
>> >This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>>and
>> >instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>>equipment
>> >requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>>the
>> >airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
>> >operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>>to
>> >issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
>> >safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
>> >limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>>The
>> >ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>>interest
>> >of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
>> >limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
> >are
>> >understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>>can
>> >require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
>> >prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
>> >
>> >1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
> > >2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>>appropriately
>> >equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>>this
>> >aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
>> >3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
>> >under 91.205 must
>> >be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>>91.
>> >Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
>> >aircraft maintenance records.
>> >
>> >To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
>> >What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>>is
>> >prudent or safe?
>> >
>> >So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
>> >effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
>> >equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
>> >states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
>> >that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
>> >transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>>that
>> >the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
>> >environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class
>>of
>> >TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
>> >the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
>> >that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>>must
>> >meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>>and
>> >calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
>> >notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
>> >equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
>> >not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>>could
>> >build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
>> >requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
>> >
>> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>>91.205(a)
>> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
>> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
>> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
>> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>>conjunction
>> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>>the
>> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>>on
>> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
>> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
>> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
>> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>>up
>> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>>requirements
>> >prior to operating the aircraft.
>> >
>> >Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>>per
>> >the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
>> >appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>>with
>> >91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
>> >Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
>> >flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>>In
>> >paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
>> >day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
>> >talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>>that
>> >they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>>requirements
>> >of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
> >from
>> >the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
>> >FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about
>>a
>> >TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
> >that
>> >for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>>the
>> >IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
>> >also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
>> >system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to
>>be
>> >used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
>> >sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>>displaying
>> >hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>>capacity,
>> >a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>>gyroscopic
>> >direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
>> >91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
>> >VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
>> >Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
>> >pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>>aircraft.
>> >
>> >So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
>> >items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>>remember
>> >that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>>where
>> >our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
>> >amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>>your
>> >family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
>> >during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
>> >and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
>> >Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
>> >category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>>FAA
>> >through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
>> >manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
>> >equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>>standards.
>> >
>> >In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
>> >want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>>concern
>> >when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
>> >certificate.
>> >
>> >Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
>> >patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
> > >
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Dave,
I posted something to the List about a month ago on this very subject,
since I have been painting my -8A exterior over the summer months I did
lots of research on spec sheets and learned some things I didn't know
back when I made the primer decision for the interior parts. The bottom
line is you are absolutely correct....Variprime or any other
manufacturer's self-etching/wash primers are NOT corrosion inhibiting
primers....they are only good if you are going to seal (that is, topcoat)
them with an epoxy primer that gives you corrosion protection. I primed
everything with Variprime because that's what some other folks did, but
now regret that I did not do my homework first and check the spec sheets.
I think it was a waste of time, money, and added weight to my airplane
with no corrosion-inhibiting benefits. If I were to do it over I would
use a Direct to Metal (DTM) epoxy primer which does not require a
self-etching primer like Variprime underneath it. This will give you
true corrosion protection in a single step. If you don't live in a
climate that is very corrosive to begin with, and the airplane is
hangared and will be flown regularly, you might consider just hitting the
rivet seams with DTM epoxy primer and leave the rest unprimed. Quick,
easy, affordable, light weight, and will accomplish what you really need
for 90% of the RV's out there.
Oh and BTW, every major paint manufacturer makes DTM Epoxy
primer....Sherwin Williams, DuPont, PPG, etc...and Transtar has a good
line of primers that work well with any other manufacturer's topcoats,
but is much more affordable. I know a number of guys who've used
Transtar primer products (including DTM Epoxy, Self-Etching, and
Hi-Build/Surfacing) with good results....including myself.
IMHO. FWIW. Do Not Archive. Etc....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D....finishing...and always learning things the hard way, after
the fact, wishing I could do it over...
From: David Nelson <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Subject: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime?
--> RV-List message posted by: David Nelson <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi All,
Getting ready to start building (attended the George Orndoff's (sp?)
class last
weekend - great experience!) and now I'm doing some homework w/ regards
to
primers, tools, and such.
I've been reviewing manufacturer's spec sheets for various products and
looking
them over. To my surprise, while reading DuPont's VariPrime tech manual
it
clearly states under "Tips for Success" that "For optimum holdout and
performance, VariPrime 615S/625S" must always be primed or sealed prior
to
topcoat application". So I called up DuPont and spoke to their tech
support
(1-800-338-7668) and they were very firm that VariPrime should NOT be
left
alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and
2)
it's very porous when left alone. So are VariPrime users putting
something on
top that I'm not aware of? I'm not trying to be difficult here or start
another primer religious war - just trying to make right decisions based
on
facts and best practices.
I then asked what they would recommend for such an application and they
recommended the "DuPont 2510S/2540S/2570S/2580CR Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer"
line
of products which are available in a few colors (white, gray, dark gray,
and
olive green).
Thanks,
/\/elson
RV-7A (soon, very soon)
Austin, TX
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
--> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com
Plans are now spoken for.
Thanks,
Bryon
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
--> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com
So which Transtar primer are people using for corrosion protection? There are
several epoxy primers listed on their website.
Thanks,
Bryon
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? - QB kits |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
I assume from this thread that the acid wash primer that Van's uses on
the quick build kits has the same properties/problems as variprime. I
built the Emp. for my plane and then switched to the QB. I painted
everything I could reach with the Deft epoxy primer, but since the wings
were largely closed up to start with I did nothing on the wing interior.
Is it worth trying (or even possible) to prime inside the wings after
they're completed?
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
--> RV-List message posted by: michael michael <top_gun_toronto@yahoo.ca>
I use Sherwin williams self-etching Primer....Knowing full well that Sherwin Williams
told me it offers no rust protection. Now you may ask...why would you use
something that you have been told offers no protection....
#1....My understanding of rust protection is that corrosion is an electrical process..anything
that can insulate 2 metals from each other...(think of insulation
on wires) offers protection..The primer does absord moisture....but i have
observed this product (dunked in water). It is resistant to a point...In my belief
it offers a level of protection. Also sherwin WIlliams & others like to
sell big $$$$$.....So i`m making an educated choice/guess.
#2 I dont have the facilities to large scale spray. I have considered ...mixing
& rolling the epoxy primer on just the joints. after much thought on the matter
I decided to go the etch-primer route in spray cans.
#3 After watching on CNN the 6 cigerette presidents swear under oath in front of
Congress that smoking does not cause cancer. I dont trust
anything big bizz says.;)...So I spray with a usless paint that IS marked as cancer
causing.
I believe that that the etch primers offer a level of protection (how much is only
a guess) ....I dont believe they premote corrosion.
For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize or Epoxy
paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
---------------------------------
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
Hi,
While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration routine,
I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where the screen always
displays "LOADING". I think this was caused because I hit the "END"
button instead of the "AIRLFT" button (in the air) prior to executing
the left hand turn manurver.
I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2 hour, and it
didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power seems to not get it out of
this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can re-start the
calibration process? Is there a processor "RESET" button?????
I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 75 hrs
Phone Weekdays: (860)-727-2393
Weekends: (860)-623-1094
Email Weekdays: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com
Weekends: wstucklen1@cox.net
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Something similar happened to mine when I was updating the software and
my laptop battery died in the middle of the process (I know - my
fault!). I had to send it in to Dynon to be flashed. They turned it
around quickly and didn't charge me. But -- I wasn't thrilled that it
happened in the first place. I'm no EE, but I would think it would be
relatively simple to guard against this sort of problem....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Stucklen [mailto:wstucklen1@cox.net]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:33 AM
> To: info@dynondevelopment.com
> Subject: RV-List: EFIS-D10 Help!
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
>
> Hi,
>
> While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration
> routine, I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where
> the screen always displays "LOADING". I think this was
> caused because I hit the "END" button instead of the "AIRLFT"
> button (in the air) prior to executing the left hand turn manurver.
> I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2
> hour, and it didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power
> seems to not get it out of this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
> How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can
> re-start the calibration process? Is there a processor
> "RESET" button?????
> I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-6A N926RV 75 hrs
> Phone Weekdays: (860)-727-2393
> Weekends: (860)-623-1094
>
> Email Weekdays: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com
> Weekends: wstucklen1@cox.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Alodine & Anodine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Smith <dave@rv10project.net>
Okay, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between these two
products/processes? I'd like to do some corrosion protection, but am
new to the 'primer' discussion.
Thanks!
--
Dave
http://www.rv10project.net
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene@citilink.com>
I'm no EE, but I would think it would be
> relatively simple to guard against this sort of problem....
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
Most small computers are vulnerable while updating the EEPROM. This is
because the instructions for loading is in the EEPROM that is being
updated and has been copied to RAM for execution. Yes, this can be
guarded against at additional cost and components. This can also happen
to your computer when flashing a new BIOS. See http://www.badflash.com/
which explains that "flashing your computer's bios can sometimes go
wrong leaving your computer a useless paperweight."
Ken
RV-6A N94KB
RV-4 under construction
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Fred Stucklen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
>
> Hi,
>
> While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration routine,
> I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where the screen always
> displays "LOADING". I think this was caused because I hit the "END"
> button instead of the "AIRLFT" button (in the air) prior to executing
> the left hand turn manurver.
> I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2 hour, and it
> didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power seems to not get it out of
> this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
> How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can re-start the
> calibration process? Is there a processor "RESET" button?????
> I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to reboot
the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power feed in
order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I bet the
unit will come back to life once you do that.
Sam Buchanan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
If I'm not mistaken, the internal battery also serves as a "keep alive"
if you have that option, so disconnecting the external keep alive will
not make a difference. Removing the internal battery might do the trick.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing
Milwaukee, WI
>Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to reboot
>the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power feed in
>order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I bet the
>unit will come back to life once you do that.
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
improvements in the systems that support the Lists and to pay for the
Internet connectivity primarily dedicated to supporting the Lists.
The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
short of impressive! Here are some statistics that show how much traffic
the Lists generated this year alone:
* 11/01/2002 - 10/31/2003
o Web server hits: 10,446,780 (870,565/mo)
o Incoming Email Posts: 58,918 (4,909/mo)
List-related upgrades this year have been plentiful, and List performance
has substantially improved as a result. Upgrades and enhancements this
year have included:
* Internet Connection upgrade to a full, commercial-grade T1 Line!
* New Web Server platform - Dual 3Ghz Xeon with 2Gb Ram and U320 SCSI!
* Upgrade of Email Server platform - Dual 1.7 Ghz Xeon with 1Gb Ram!
* All new SPAM Filtering Appliance - filters about 98% of the SPAM!
* All new, web-base List Chat Room society!
As you can well imagine, this year's upgrades translate into a fair amount
of cash outlay on my part and this annual List Fund Raiser is the sole
means by which I fund these upgrades. Unlike most of the other "list
servers" on the Web these days, I have a strict
*no-commercial-advertisement policy* on the Matronics Lists and associated
List web sites. I was again approached by a number of vendors recently
with advertising deals that have been very tempting. My commitment to
providing a grass-roots, non-commercial environment prevailed,
however! Commercialism on the Internet seems to be increasing
exponentially every year, with more and more SPAM and pop up ads, not to
mention the ever increasing Virus attacks.
My goal with the Matronics List Service is to provide all members
with a commercial-free, virus-free, and high-performance system
with which the may share information, ideas, and camaraderie.
The best news this year is that, with the gracious help of Andy Gold and
The Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I have been able
to significantly expand the lineup of fantastic Gift offers to support the
List Fund Raiser! In all, there are eight awesome free gifts this year
ranging from List Archive CD's to Flight Computers with qualifying
Contribution levels. Those great Jeppesen Flight Bags that were so popular
last year are even back! A special thanks goes out to Andy Gold again this
year for his very kind and generous support of the Lists. Thanks Andy, for
these great incentives!!
Over the next month I'll be posting a few reminder messages about the List
Fund Raiser, and I ask for your patience and understanding during the
process. Remember that the Lists are *completely* funded through the
generous Contributions of its members. That's it! There's no support from
a bloated advertising budget or deep pockets somewhere. Its all made
possible through YOUR thoughtful and generous support!
To make your List Contribution using a Visa or MasterCard, PalPal, or with
a personal check, please go to the URL link below. Here you can find
additional details on this year's great free Gifts as well as information
on the various methods of payment. Contributions in the $20, $30, $50,
$75, and $100 range are common. The Contribution web page is kind of long
this year with the details of each of the gifts, so please scroll all the
way down!
SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
I would like to thank everyone who supports the Lists this year! Your
Contributions truly make it all possible!!
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Yes, I understand that much.
My thought was something along the line of having an extra backup EEPROM
that is never updated. It always has the software on it as shipped from
the factory. Should the primary, updatable one fail, the backup is
always there -- A second boot device that can't be over written.
Restore from it when needed, then start upgrading to the current
software version. What does an EEPROM chip cost, a dollar?
Anyway, I bet Dynon is already looking at the issue...
Cheers,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Beene [mailto:kbeene@citilink.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:44 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS-D10 Help!
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene@citilink.com>
>
>
> I'm no EE, but I would think it would be
> > relatively simple to guard against this sort of problem....
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
>
>
> Most small computers are vulnerable while updating the
> EEPROM. This is because the instructions for loading is in
> the EEPROM that is being updated and has been copied to RAM
> for execution. Yes, this can be guarded against at
> additional cost and components. This can also happen to your
> computer when flashing a new BIOS. See
> http://www.badflash.com/ which explains that "flashing your
> computer's bios can sometimes go wrong leaving your computer
> a useless paperweight."
>
> Ken
> RV-6A N94KB
> RV-4 under construction
Message 15
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| Subject: | Alodine & Anodine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Brick" <jbrick@wolfenet.com>
If you meant anodize:
Anodize. Aluminum anodizing is the electrochemical process by which aluminum
is converted into aluminum oxide on the surface of a part. This coating is
desirable in specific applications due to the following properties:
Increased corrosion resistance
Increased durability / wear resistance
Ability to be colored through dying
Excellent base or primer for secondary coatings
The process of anodizing is rather simple but it requires extensive
equipment to do it right. It consists of an anodizing solution that is an
acid electrolyte. A cathode is connected to the negative terminal of a
voltage source and placed in the solution. An aluminum component is
connected to the positive terminal of the voltage source and also placed in
the solution. When the circuit is turned on the oxygen in the anodizing
solution will be liberated from the water molecules and combine with the
aluminum on the part forming an aluminum oxide coating. Anodizing will
protect the aluminum parts by making the surface much harder than natural
aluminum. RV builders that get their spars pre-built will receive them
anodized and theyll have the nice gold color.
Alodine. This is a product that most of us use as part of the priming
process. It is a chromic acid conversion coating that is applied to aluminum
to provide corrosion protection and surface preparation for paint. It is
called a conversion coating because it does a chemical conversion of the
surface (oxidizes it) and is the best way to prep it for painting. All by
itself, aluminum naturally combines with oxygen to form a protective surface
film that inhibits further oxidation of the aluminum. Unlike steel or iron
alloys, aluminum will not continue to oxidize (rust) once this protective
layer is formed. But this natural oxide is extremely thin and loosely
adhered to the aluminum surface, and is easily removed by handling. In
contrast, Alodine forms a very durable, protective oxide. Application
usually gives a gold tint to the aluminum surface, although some Alodine
products are clear and invisible. [Note: Alodine is a trademark name of
Henkel Corporation but it has come to be used generically. DuPont calls
theirs 226S conversion coating. Poly-Fiber is Aluma-Dyne E-2300 Chromic Acid
Conversion Coating.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Smith
Subject: RV-List: Alodine & Anodine
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Smith <dave@rv10project.net>
Okay, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between these two
products/processes? I'd like to do some corrosion protection, but am
new to the 'primer' discussion.
Thanks!
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Jeff Point wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the internal battery also serves as a "keep alive"
> if you have that option, so disconnecting the external keep alive will
> not make a difference. Removing the internal battery might do the trick.
>
Good point. Disconnect keep alive feed *and* the internal battery. :-)
Sam Buchanan (didn't have the internal battery in mine when I had to do
a hard reboot)
>>Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to reboot
>>the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power feed in
>>order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I bet the
>>unit will come back to life once you do that.
>>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I just finished a truly exceptional ride in Rod Linde's new RV8. Later on, I noticed
the heat of the sun glare from the unpainted aluminum wing was considerable.
Made me think of selling time as a winter tanning parlor. Has anyone explored
using a flat paint or other way to reduce the reflected heat energy?
Does paint of any kind reduce the effect in your experience? The heat was definitely
coming from the side & the flight took place at noon so an overhead sunshade
wouldn't affect it.
Rod has put 2 2" diameter holes in the aft wall of his rear baggage compartment
with a screen cover to protect against FOD to the control system. I couldn't
feel any draft around the canopy & the skirt seemed firmly in contact with the
fuselage sides when I poked it. However, the day was a sunny 75 degrees. Maybe
I'll get another ride to check it out this winter.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> But practically speaking, this means the IFR GPS must be TSO'd.
>
> If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the
> manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type
> certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a
> hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO
> requirements.
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>>
>>Kevin,
>>
>>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
>>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
>>
>>Mike
>>
We're talking about GPS for approaches, not enroute, right? And doesn't
the enroute GPS have to be a "supplement" (FAA Advisory Circular 20-138)
to onboard navigational equipment that is ground based (VOR)? And since
the primary enroute navigation is ground based, the enroute GPS doesn't
have to meet the requirements of a TSO, right?
In other words, as I understand it, a handheld GPS is fine for enroute
IFR ops as long as an operational VOR receiver (handheld???) is in the
plane. The TSO-equivalent GPS is required for approaches.
We are not discussing what is prudent, only what is literally required
by the FARs.
Sam Buchanan
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
--> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
I had the same problem when working on the calibration program. I ended up
trying to recommunicate with the unit and computer and was able to re-establish
communication and download the information. Try establishing communication
between the computer and EFIS, try what you were doing, or try uploading a
checklist or the v speeds or similar. I can't remember what I did, but I was
finally able to re-establish communication and the unit started working properly.
I hope this helps!
-Mike
In a message dated 11/1/2003 11:37:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wstucklen1@cox.net writes:
Hi,
While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration routine,
I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where the screen always
displays "LOADING". I think this was caused because I hit the "END"
button instead of the "AIRLFT" button (in the air) prior to executing
the left hand turn manurver.
I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2 hour, and it
didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power seems to not get it out of
this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can re-start the
calibration process? Is there a processor "RESET" button?????
I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 75 hrs
Phone Weekdays: (860)-727-2393
Weekends: (860)-623-1094
Email Weekdays: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com
Weekends: wstucklen1@cox.net
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "I-K Technologies (Ralph Krongold)" <2pilots@comcast.net>
Steve Glasgow wrote:
>> The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a
near
perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and all
engine instruments were gone . . . We determined the EIS problem was
probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
auto shutdown. < <
Ken Simmons wrote:
>> You mentioned the EIS failure was probably an alternator over-voltage
that caused
an auto shutdown. If you're needing a loaner it sounds like it damaged the
EIS. Is that correct? < <
Listers -
In response to Ken's comments regarding survival of an engine monitor
over-voltage situation, I wanted to suggest that potential buyers of
avionics in general -- and engine monitors in particular -- verify that
equipment to be used in their aircraft is protected against voltage
transients and other over-voltage phenomena. As an engine monitor
manufacturer focusing on the experimental market, we at I-K Technologies
have designed our instruments to withstand significant over-voltage
transients and other over-voltage
conditions without interruption or failure.
In addition, we've built significant redundancy into our instruments so that
multiple displays and support circuitry provide redundancy and fault
tolerance in the event of a failure of a one component in the system for any
reason. Adding protection against over-voltage is fairly trivial and should
be a consideration before buying instruments -- particularly those that
provide pilots with information regarding the health of their
engine.
Ralph Krongold
CEO & Chief Engineer
I-K Technologies
www.i-ktechnologies.com
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
Hi Listers,
I would like to add strobes to my finished RV wingtips.
I have seen notes about cheaper alternatives to the big name suppliers, but
their site usually shows bus flashers and amber lights etc.
I do not need position lights, but would like to add white ( clear )
multiple flash pattern lights to the tips...( pos. lights are separate and
already in ).
Any thoughts to offer ?
Input greatly appreciated,
Austin.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (more questions) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
This begs questions of much more practical significance that
constructing my own GPS or transponder.
Can I, as the builder, legally demonstrate compliance of the
*installation* of an IFR GPS in my plane?
Can I, as the builder, legally calibrate the static system/altimeter
(manometers are relatively easy to construct) & verify that the mode C
is correctly reporting altitude?
Next, addressing the issue of 'navigational equipment appropriate to
the ground facilities to be used'. Aren't there now (or there soon will
be) GPS approaches to airports that have no other instrument approach?
If that is correct, do you need ADF or VOR to fly an approach there? If
not, then part B follows: If you are flying a GPS approach into an
airport that has both GPS & other approaches, you aren't using 'ground
facilities'. Do you still need ADF and/or VOR to fly that approach?
Thanks Mike,
Charlie
Mike Robertson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>
>Kevin,
>
>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>>
>>Great stuff Mike.
>>
>>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
>>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
>>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
>>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
>>
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
>>>Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>>>
>>>
>>here
>>
>>
>>>it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
>>>delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
>>>
>>>Mike Robertson
>>>
>>>
>>>HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
>>>By Mike Robertson
>>>
>>>Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
>>>and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
>>>some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
>>>unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>>>
>>>
>>means
>>
>>
>>>Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
>>>requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
>>>there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>>>
>>>
>>equipment
>>
>>
>>>must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
>>>somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>>>
>>>
>>issued
>>
>>
>>>an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
>>>operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>>>
>>>
>>amended.
>>
>>
>>>Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
>>>operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
>>>Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
>>>airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>>>
>>>
>>7
>>
>>
>>>of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>>>
>>>
>>aircraft
>>
>>
>>>and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
>>>Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
>>>
>>>This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>>>
>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>>>
>>>
>>equipment
>>
>>
>>>requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
>>>operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
>>>safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
>>>limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>>>
>>>
>>The
>>
>>
>>>ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>>>
>>>
>>interest
>>
>>
>>>of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
>>>limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
>>>
>>>
>>are
>>
>>
>>>understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>>>
>>>
>>can
>>
>>
>>>require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
>>>prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
>>>
>>>1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
>>>2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>>>
>>>
>>appropriately
>>
>>
>>>equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
>>>3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
>>>under 91.205 must
>>>be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>>>
>>>
>>91.
>>
>>
>>>Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
>>>aircraft maintenance records.
>>>
>>>To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
>>>What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>>>
>>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>prudent or safe?
>>>
>>>So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
>>>effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
>>>equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
>>>states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
>>>that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
>>>transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
>>>environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class
>>>
>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
>>>the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
>>>that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>>>
>>>
>>must
>>
>>
>>>meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>>>
>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
>>>notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
>>>equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
>>>not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>>>
>>>
>>could
>>
>>
>>>build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
>>>requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
>>>
>>>You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>>>
>>>
>>91.205(a)
>>
>>
>>>states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
>>>safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
>>>typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
>>>Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>>>
>>>
>>conjunction
>>
>>
>>>with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>>>
>>>
>>on
>>
>>
>>>the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
>>>that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
>>>equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
>>>considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>>>
>>>
>>up
>>
>>
>>>to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>>>
>>>
>>requirements
>>
>>
>>>prior to operating the aircraft.
>>>
>>>Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>>>
>>>
>>per
>>
>>
>>>the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
>>>appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>>>
>>>
>>with
>>
>>
>>>91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
>>>Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
>>>flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>>>
>>>
>>In
>>
>>
>>>paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
>>>day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
>>>talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>>>
>>>
>>requirements
>>
>>
>>>of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
>>>
>>>
>>from
>>
>>
>>>the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
>>>FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about
>>>
>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
>>>also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
>>>system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to
>>>
>>>
>>be
>>
>>
>>>used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
>>>sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>>>
>>>
>>displaying
>>
>>
>>>hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>>>
>>>
>>capacity,
>>
>>
>>>a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>>>
>>>
>>gyroscopic
>>
>>
>>>direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
>>>91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
>>>VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
>>>Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
>>>pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>>>
>>>
>>aircraft.
>>
>>
>>>So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
>>>items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>>>
>>>
>>remember
>>
>>
>>>that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>>>
>>>
>>where
>>
>>
>>>our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
>>>amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>>>
>>>
>>your
>>
>>
>>>family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
>>>during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
>>>and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
>>>Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
>>>category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>>>
>>>
>>FAA
>>
>>
>>>through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
>>>manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
>>>equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>>>
>>>
>>standards.
>>
>>
>>>In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
>>>want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>>>
>>>
>>concern
>>
>>
>>>when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
>>>certificate.
>>>
>>>Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
>>>patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: "First Flight" |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> Steve Glasgow wrote:
>
> >> The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a
> near
> perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and
all
> engine instruments were gone . . . We determined the EIS problem was
> probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make
an
> auto shutdown. < <
>
> Ken Simmons wrote:
>
> >> You mentioned the EIS failure was probably an alternator over-voltage
> that caused
> an auto shutdown. If you're needing a loaner it sounds like it damaged the
> EIS. Is that correct? < <
>
> Listers -
>
> In response to Ken's comments regarding survival of an engine monitor
> over-voltage situation, I wanted to suggest that potential buyers of
> avionics in general -- and engine monitors in particular -- verify that
> equipment to be used in their aircraft is protected against voltage
> transients and other over-voltage phenomena. As an engine monitor
> manufacturer focusing on the experimental market, we at I-K Technologies
> have designed our instruments to withstand significant over-voltage
> transients and other over-voltage
> conditions without interruption or failure.
>
> In addition, we've built significant redundancy into our instruments so
that
> multiple displays and support circuitry provide redundancy and fault
> tolerance in the event of a failure of a one component in the system for
any
> reason. Adding protection against over-voltage is fairly trivial and
should
> be a consideration before buying instruments -- particularly those that
> provide pilots with information regarding the health of their
> engine.
>
> Ralph Krongold
> CEO & Chief Engineer
> I-K Technologies
> www.i-ktechnologies.com
Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine monitor?
Every single time you start the engine you will drop down to at least 9.7
volts while at the same time wanting your engine monitor on so as to check
on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such all-in-one
instruments won't tolerate the low voltage rendering them useless during the
startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers could
respond to this.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
EAA Technical Counselor
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Email list vs. Web forum |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jake L. Wegman" <jake@ultrex.com>
>
>For those of you who have never used a web based forum needs to informed of
>several key benefits:
>
>1st - [structured topics] - Painting/Priming topics can be kept separate
>from engine/accessory topics. This is very beneficial when you want to
>focus on a particular task.
>
>2nd - [searchable content] - Items of interest are much easier found when
>like topics are contained. Searching a mailing list of news group is very
>limited and time consuming.
>
>3rd - [Low "noise to signal" ratio] - Again, focus on topics that are
>important to you. When it's time to focus on another topic, that
>information is stored in an easy to find manner in their respective forum
>"group".
>
>4th - [Convenience of getting the information anytime, anywhere] (where
>there is an Internet connected computer.) - Want a chance to look up a topic
>while at the office then pick that reading up again when you go home?
>
>5th - [Personal Messages] - Termed "PM's" - these are mini-emails sent from
>one user of the forum to another without tying up your e-mail mailbox.
>Don't you get enough e-mail as it is?
>
>6th - [Protect your e-mail address] - as Dave pointed out, web forums do NOT
>reveal your e-mail address. You NEVER have to give your e-mail address in a
>message. Internet spiders cannot gain that information because it wasn't
>used in the message in the first place!
>
>Web based forums are a central way of holding discussions. If you think
>about it, mailing lists for our purpose are antiquated. Why should a single
>topic result in a few thousand e-mails? That's just ridiculous...
>
>As an exercise, I've setup a web based forum for the education of this
>group. If you are so inclined, please visit:
>
>http://forums.happyhangar.com
All good points, but I think there is one very big plus to an e-mail
based list that we shouldn't discount - once you sign up it those
messages come every day, and you tend to at least glance at the
subject lines before deleting them. If something looks interesting
you'll read it, and if you feel qualified to answer a question or
make a comment you'll do it.
Case in point - I subscribe to a number of web based forums on other
subjects. I may go several months between visits to some of them, as
there are too many other things pulling for my time. But those
RV-List messages are staring me in the face everyday, so I am drawn
in to responding to a few subjects that I feel qualified to comment
on. I bet if we had a web based forum instead of an e-mail list we
would have fewer responses to any given question.
I do like web based forums when I am looking for information from old
postings. But if I need a question answered right now, I'll take an
e-mail list any day as a lot more people will probably be aware of my
question in the next hour or two.
Just my opinion, FWIW.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 25
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Randy,
That's exactly what seems to happen with a Blue Mountain EFIS/one on
start-up, so they recommend a small battery that can power the system
separate from the main alternator and battery during engine start. It
doesn't take much of a battery. You can see the simple wiring diagram on
Blue Mountain's site.
I am leaning toward a dual battery system with two 17ah batteries for my
EFIS/one. The second battery could be used to power the starter if the main
battery is too low. In that case, I would shut off the EFIS/one for the
start. I have an oil pressure warning light, which seems to be the main
concern for engine gauges on start.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 panel
Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine monitor?
Every single time you start the engine you will drop down to at least 9.7
volts while at the same time wanting your engine monitor on so as to check
on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such all-in-one
instruments won't tolerate the low voltage rendering them useless during the
startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers could
respond to this.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
EAA Technical Counselor
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Anodine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
John Brick wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Brick" <jbrick@wolfenet.com>
>
> If you meant anodize:
>
> Anodize. Aluminum anodizing is the electrochemical process by which aluminum
> is converted into aluminum oxide on the surface of a part. This coating is
> desirable in specific applications due to the following properties:
> Increased corrosion resistance
> Increased durability / wear resistance
> Ability to be colored through dying
> Excellent base or primer for secondary coatings
> The process of anodizing is rather simple but it requires extensive
> equipment to do it right.
Home anodizing is simpler than you may think........
http://my.execpc.com/~gert/anodize.html
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel chains |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Hey Tom,
I lost one July 4 of this year. I operate off a smooth, closely clipped
grass strip. I can only assume that the other one had already been
lost, because that side had a screw-shut chain link installed when I
bought the plane.
Charlie
RV-4 N914RV
David Carter wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
>I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
>chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
>some specific info for him?
>
>David Carter
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Green" <tomg@vansaircraft.com>
>To: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>
>
>
>
>>Dave, no, but in all of the years, I have never seen it... it would be
>>interesting to know of an individual and how it happened... Tom
>>
>>Forwarded by: "Support" <support>
>>Forwarded to: tomg
>>Date forwarded: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:10:19 -0800
>>Send reply to: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>>From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>>To: "Van's Aircraft - Support" <support@vansaircraft.com>
>>Subject: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>>Date sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:03:49 -0600
>>
>>There's been some discussion of tailwheel chains coming loose - with the
>>Van's wire links being a persistent culprit. Has anyone taken the time to
>>pass this on to you?
>>
>>David Carter
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:12 AM
>>Subject: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
>>>
>>>Awww geez, somebody was whining about getting back to building topics...
>>>
>>>
>>and I thought this list was just for BS'ing.
>>
>>
>>>Anyway, regarding the chain length on your tailwheel, loose is better
>>>
>>>
>than
>
>
>>tight. Don't fret too much here, just take out one chain length from
>>
>>
>being
>
>
>>tight and call it good.
>>
>>
>>>If your chains hit the bottom of your rudder, you can add the eyebolts
>>>
>>>
>to
>
>
>>the rudder horns and tailwheel bellcrank if you like. And make sure to
>>
>>
>put
>
>
>>your springs on the tailwheel end, even though they look nicer on the top
>>end. And if the chains still scratch the paint off of your rudder, cover
>>the chains with shrink tubing. You can get shrink tubing at your
>>
>>
>electrical
>
>
>>supply store and it comes in many colors including clear.
>>
>>
>>>IMHO, throw those funny teardrop shaped wire links that Van supplied in
>>>
>>>
>>the trash. I've seen too many of them come undone.
>>
>>
>>>Have fun... at least you know that you put the little wheel on the
>>>
>>>
>correct
>
>
>>end.
>>
>>
>>>Vince
>>>
Message 28
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
David,
you have been Van'ed off. All of Van's employee's must take a class prior to
employement where they are trained to use this line via deep brain root
electro shock Pavlovian conditioning. Exmpl. "Have you ever heard of your
new product, Sam B's GoingtooFast canopy wax, causing unusually loud
emissions from the Vetterman exhaust systems you also sell", and without any
form of hesitation the response will be, "Why no, its never happened to any
of our planes, but I would love to meet anybody who has had that happen".
Now you must also bear in mind that all the employees are telepathically
linked much like insurance agents when offering quotes. So if you go to the
next employee with your story you will get this same line but the phrases
will be ordered differently. "Why no, I would love to meet anybody who has
had that happen, but its never happened to any of our planes".
You are welcome to use my name, but Tom will know it and avoid you for the
rest of eternity as I have brought many things to his attention to no avail.
The top of this list being their line of Amp gauges.
And before the Van's police jump in and trash me here, I am teasing a
little, Tom and I poke fun at each other at airshows all over. A big part of
their problem is they are making and shipping a lot of parts with a few
employees, so the little things get dropped through the cracks.
The problem is that with some springs when one has enough links to keep the
chain from placing a significant preload in the rudder spar then it might be
loose enough to have the clip spin. It can rotate to the point where it is
being pulled on the sides rather than on the ends. This causes the clip to
spread open, and voila, the wheel is free at last. If there was a way to
fine adjust it half a link then this wouldn't happen. I am going to try the
"list mentioned" spring shrink/stretch method first.
but, after burning 1700 homes in a 30 mile ring around my airport and
causing several small towns to vanish, the Cedar fire has still got a TFR
placed smack dab on top of my hangar. Although I am not happy about this, I
am one of the lucky ones. If you ever want a picture of Armageddon, come on
down to KSEE and take one from about 2000ft agl.
I sure do hope it is lifted by Nov 8th, as I would greatly love to go to
Cable. Probably the only good thing about the fires was I had to be in a
State Faculty/Senate Session all day today and would have missed the flyin.
W
Time: 08:12:16 AM PST US
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Subject: Fw: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
some specific info for him?
David Carter
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Alodine & Anodize |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Listers,
Just to add to John's informative post, MacDirmid Corp. also produces a chromic
acid process (aka Alodining) called Iridite 14-2
Charlie Kuss
>snipped
>
>Alodine. This is a product that most of us use as part of the priming
>snipped
> [Note: Alodine is a trademark name of
>Henkel Corporation but it has come to be used generically. DuPont calls
>theirs 226S conversion coating. Poly-Fiber is Aluma-Dyne E-2300 Chromic Acid
>Conversion Coating.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Smith
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Alodine & Anodine
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Smith <dave@rv10project.net>
>
>Okay, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between these two
>products/processes? I'd like to do some corrosion protection, but am
>new to the 'primer' discussion.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Austin,
I purchased a Nova power supply, wiring harness & 4 strobe heads from Strobes
N' More, on the recommendation of Mark N. I'm impressed with them. See the link
below for more info.
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/18/1829.htm?26
Like the Whelen units, this power supply allows you the choice of several flash
patterns. This unit also has the same power output as the Whelen units. These
strobe heads do not come with a magnifying lens. These can be purchased reasonably
from Vans. Lens part number is LN A612 and is found on the web page below
on Vans site.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1067746587-352-183&browse=lighting&product=strobe_parts
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
>
>Hi Listers,
> I would like to add strobes to my finished RV wingtips.
>I have seen notes about cheaper alternatives to the big name suppliers, but
>their site usually shows bus flashers and amber lights etc.
>I do not need position lights, but would like to add white ( clear )
>multiple flash pattern lights to the tips...( pos. lights are separate and
>already in ).
>Any thoughts to offer ?
>Input greatly appreciated,
>Austin.
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
area from the remainder.
I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
every oil change.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Alex Peterson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
> the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
> found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
> the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
> effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
> area from the remainder.
>
> I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
> kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
> system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
> long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
>
> One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
> every oil change.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
Just finished assembling mine a week ago. I was thinking that this could cause
trouble in the long run. It seemed pretty flimsy. I think it is about .062 and
I thought about making it .080, Then gave up that idea to keep from adding
weight. I don't think it has been a problem, but it is good to know and
something to keep an eye on...
Phil
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Funny you should mention that Alex! I just finished fabricating a brand new
plate this afternoon, for the exact same reason. During my annual this
week, I found that plate was crached in nearly the same place and required a
new one.
Just an FYI, I have nearly the same setup Alex does, IO-360 with the
vertically mounted servo. I really don't know exactly how long mine has
been cracked, but the crack was a good 2" long, and it wasn't fresh, so I'm
guessing it's been growing for awhile. Also, it currently has 152hrs on it.
Like Alex said, I guess it needs to be checked more than once per year!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Peterson
Subject: RV-List: Cracked FAB mounting plate
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
area from the remainder.
I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
every oil change.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Well I am not too far along that I can't do a fix. I am going up a couple of
sizes until it is a little more rigid. Going up a couple sizes will really add
no weight for no bigger than it is. I also have vertical mount fuel servo.
I am wondering why this has not showed up on anyone else's inspections. Maybe
particular installations, vibrations, power pulses, throttle linkage, airscoop
too close(maybe touching when at cruise speeds)?....
Phil
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I don't have any real good ideas as to why mine cracked, I have plenty of
flex between the FAB and the cowl, yet still a snug fit. One thing I can
think of is that I do a fair amount of wifferdills & wooptydoos, so maybe my
engine moves more than most of the "straight and level" fliers.
After making a new plate, I decided to trim some of the inner "snout" off my
cowl, and make a longer rubber neck on the FAB, I figured it can't hurt.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phil Sisson,
Litchfield Aerobatic Club
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cracked FAB mounting plate
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
<sisson@consolidated.net>
Well I am not too far along that I can't do a fix. I am going up a couple of
sizes until it is a little more rigid. Going up a couple sizes will really
add
no weight for no bigger than it is. I also have vertical mount fuel servo.
I am wondering why this has not showed up on anyone else's inspections.
Maybe
particular installations, vibrations, power pulses, throttle linkage,
airscoop
too close(maybe touching when at cruise speeds)?....
Phil
do not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
(clip)
>Guess I better not mention the special wax I use on the canopy to reduce
>airflow friction......
Whatever you do, don't get any on the prop. I did that once and it made
the prop so slippery that it couldn't grab the air. It just sat there
and spun, and I couldn't even taxi. Had to throttle way back to keep
from over-revving the engine, too.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
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