Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:53 AM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? (Jim Jewell)
2. 04:16 AM - Re: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Dana Overall)
3. 04:40 AM - Alternate static sources (Douglas A. Fischer)
4. 05:17 AM - Re: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
5. 05:36 AM - Re: Alternate static sources (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
6. 06:37 AM - Re: Veteran's Day - NON RV - Delete Now (rob ray)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? (linn walters)
8. 06:45 AM - Young Eagles (JOHN STARN)
9. 07:07 AM - GPSMAP196 Price (P M Condon)
10. 07:14 AM - Re: clinched rivets? (David Carter)
11. 07:24 AM - Re: Alternate static sources (Stanley Blanton)
12. 08:22 AM - Bob Nuckolls' workshops (Ron Patterson)
13. 08:27 AM - Re: GPSMAP196 Price (Denis Walsh)
14. 08:31 AM - Painting tip (simple and cleaver) (P M Condon)
15. 09:05 AM - Re: GPSMAP196 (Gkb5577@aol.com)
16. 10:14 AM - Re: GPSMAP196 Price (Jeff Point)
17. 10:42 AM - Paint Help! (Bruce Bell)
18. 11:42 AM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? (Boyd Braem)
19. 11:54 AM - Re: Paint Help! (linn walters)
20. 12:14 PM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? (Doug Rozendaal)
21. 12:30 PM - Re: Paint Help! (Elsa & Henry)
22. 12:32 PM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? (rob ray)
23. 12:44 PM - Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops (Charles Rowbotham)
24. 12:49 PM - Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA (Bob Binzer)
25. 12:50 PM - Pipe is pipe or is it ???? (JOHN STARN)
26. 01:31 PM - Re: Alternate static sources (Paul Besing)
27. 02:05 PM - Re: Flying Question, need advise (Bob)
28. 02:28 PM - Re: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Terry Watson)
29. 02:56 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Curt Hoffman)
30. 03:18 PM - Re: Young Eagles (Jim Sears)
31. 03:30 PM - MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) (dmedema@att.net)
32. 03:51 PM - Compare a Dynon to the Blue Mountain (Paul Stratman)
33. 04:29 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Paul Eastham)
34. 04:41 PM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? (linn walters)
35. 04:43 PM - Re: Alternate static sources (Kevin Horton)
36. 04:49 PM - Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) (linn walters)
37. 04:49 PM - Re: Young Eagles (JOHN STARN)
38. 04:50 PM - reluctant reply to: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Sam Buchanan)
39. 05:17 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Jim Jewell)
40. 05:18 PM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings (Jim Jewell)
41. 05:24 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Larry Bowen)
42. 05:49 PM - Re: reluctant reply to: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Terry Watson)
43. 06:06 PM - Re: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Dana Overall)
44. 06:18 PM - Canopy frame painting. (Dana Overall)
45. 06:38 PM - Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops (Bobby Hester)
46. 06:59 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Jim Bower)
47. 07:30 PM - Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) (rob ray)
48. 08:00 PM - UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Bobby Hester)
49. 08:12 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Paul Eastham)
50. 08:47 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Darwin N. Barrie)
51. 09:17 PM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Larry Bowen)
52. 09:21 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Larry Bowen)
53. 09:23 PM - Re: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA (Bobby Sather)
54. 09:31 PM - DYNON-10 Flush Mounting bracket (bruno)
55. 10:03 PM - Re: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA (Kirsten Lacy)
56. 10:20 PM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (James E. Clark)
57. 10:49 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Darwin N. Barrie)
58. 11:02 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Fred Kunkel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Boyd,
I don't have an opinion pro or con re-PVC valves to offer at this point.
However I think it would be helpful if you would be willing to flesh out
your statement with some facts and findings. Then those lacking information
as to why to use or not to use PCV valves on aircraft engines would have the
basis for developing an understanding based on reasoning as apposed to
hearsay.
Please don't take this as a cheap shot or criticism.
Jim in Kelowna
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cure for Slimybellyosis?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
> Oh, and don't use a PVC valve on an aircraft engine that runs at a
> fairly constant rpm--you won't like the result.
> On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 02:04 AM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> > After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
> > on the
> > belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
> > large black
> > rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
> > what to
> > do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
> > upper plate
> > just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
> > fitting
> > there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
> > problem just
> > goes away-
> >
> > Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
> > there that
> > much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
> > cranked
> > out in the last forty years?
> >
> > Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
> > Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-> _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>This was posted anonymously on the Blue Mountain Avionics website today.
---
. There is
>disinformation being spread by Grand Rapids Instruments that implies the
>BMA
>AHRS requires GPS. The INS will work without the GPS, it just works
>better with GPS for it's fundamental mission. The GRI propaganda is
>attempting to bring merit to an inferior solution>
>
>But the remote possibility of total loss of GPS data for an extended
>period of time is why I don't favor EFIS's that include GPS in the AHRS
>solution (Blue Mountain?). It would be preferable to only lose full
>functionality of the wing leveler to having flight instruments get
>flakey because they can't hear the satellites.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
Terry,
I'd truly be surprised if GRT is actually in the "propaganda" business:-)
Blue Mountain's statement does nothing other than substantiate what I have
seen from them in the past in bashing competitors and blaming errors on
"install problems by the owner". Have they ever stepped up and taken
responsibility themselves?? Not a great way to do business. "It works
better with GPS"...........Hum, wonder how much better or worse??
Not trying to be outspoken but if Blue Mountain personnel walked up to me
soaking wet and told me it sure was raining outside............I'd have to
go look for myself:-) Just a thought I have posted before, I can see the
honorable business tactics of Dynon and GRT making life very tough for Blue
Mountain being a viable long term proposal.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 3
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"RV-9 Yahoo List" <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>,
"RV-9 Matronics List" <rv9-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer@iserv.net>
A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to use two
fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip error). My question
is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement to have yet
a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm thinking (at least
it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are the odds of both fuselage
ports freezing or clogging at the same time since if one did, the other
would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone? I'm wondering if the price
delta of $200 between with and without static in the pitot is worth it or if
in the very rare instance I can just break the VSI glass. Any input would be
greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Doug Fischer
90706
Message 4
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| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Ditto what Dana said.
BMA is in my back yard. I have heard the BMA retoric personnaly.
Sad.
Oh and Dana, forget trying "Not trying to be outspoken". Just continue
to tell the listers your experience.
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RE: RV-List: AHRS vs mechanical gyros
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>This was posted anonymously on the Blue Mountain Avionics website
>today.
---
. There is
>disinformation being spread by Grand Rapids Instruments that implies
>the
>BMA
>AHRS requires GPS. The INS will work without the GPS, it just works
>better with GPS for it's fundamental mission. The GRI propaganda is
>attempting to bring merit to an inferior solution>
>
>But the remote possibility of total loss of GPS data for an extended
>period of time is why I don't favor EFIS's that include GPS in the AHRS
>solution (Blue Mountain?). It would be preferable to only lose full
>functionality of the wing leveler to having flight instruments get
>flakey because they can't hear the satellites.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
Terry,
I'd truly be surprised if GRT is actually in the "propaganda"
business:-)
Blue Mountain's statement does nothing other than substantiate what I
have
seen from them in the past in bashing competitors and blaming errors on
"install problems by the owner". Have they ever stepped up and taken
responsibility themselves?? Not a great way to do business. "It works
better with GPS"...........Hum, wonder how much better or worse??
Not trying to be outspoken but if Blue Mountain personnel walked up to
me
soaking wet and told me it sure was raining outside............I'd have
to
go look for myself:-) Just a thought I have posted before, I can see
the
honorable business tactics of Dynon and GRT making life very tough for
Blue
Mountain being a viable long term proposal.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 5
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| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I have had my static ports clog twice in heavy rain(you know the bucket
type) in my 6A. ARGH! Not fun. I think the rain puts a little rain drop
just inside the port, both sides, and those drops just sit there and
mess with your static system. It's a terrible thing to have happen in a
plane that loves to whiz bang through altitude. The VSI is an important
gage for me in the soup. Bad things happen when it starts sending you
through altitudes for the wrong reasons. It was one of my worst times in
hard IFR. Anyway, enough rant on that...
Answer:
I went into my box of R/C stuff and retrieved a fuel line bulkhead
fitting. Little plastic bugger. You can buy one from tower hobbies. Part
number LXG851
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXG851&P=7 .
I put this tiny bulkhead fitting in my panel, teed off static line
behind the panel. On the front side of the panel, where the bulkhead is
attached, I have a short piece of r/c fuel line, 1/4 inch long maybe
with a plug in it.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXG848&P=7 part number
lxg48.
When my static ports clog, I just pull the fuel line with the plug stuck
in it right off the panel and let the static vent to cabin. Simple
Install, quick emergency procedure, and very effective.
I spent nothing cause I had this stuff laying around, but you can do it
for less than 10$, and have enough stuff for 2 planes.
Oh and as a side note, when you pull this plug in flight, WHOAA, does
the static and altimeter go bazerko until it settles back down. Takes
maybe 10 seconds. The pressure difference between out and in is
substantial.
Also as another note: For those that don't know, Altrak Alt. hold
suppliments in pitch stability reference with static source. With altrak
alt hold engaged, I can pull the plug off, vent static to cabin, watch
the alt. and VSI go whacky, and the altrak holds steady. A tribute to
its realibility on its gryo as primary and static as a backup.
Mike Stewart
Hope this was helpful
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douglas A.
Fischer
Subject: RV-List: Alternate static sources
--> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer@iserv.net>
A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and
to use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip
error). My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this
arrangement to have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is
the way I'm thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice
over). What are the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at
the same time since if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has
it happened to anyone? I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between
with and without static in the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare
instance I can just break the VSI glass. Any input would be greatly
appreciated! Thanks!
Doug Fischer
90706
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 6
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| Subject: | Veteran's Day - NON RV - Delete Now |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Having just gotten back from flying combat missions over Iraq recently, don't forget
to thank the kids over there RIGHT NOW, they need our support.
RR
Wayne Reese <waynereese@qwest.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Reese"
Thanks for posting this. I thank both of your fathers as well.
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
Subject: RV-List: Veteran's Day - NON RV - Delete Now
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo"
It was:
the 11th Month of
the 11th Day at
the 11th Hour
that World War I ended.
To my Dad, who at 17, was riding in the back of a Avenger off the
Franklin
Air Craft Carrier in the Pacific in World War II:
To my Father-in-law, who was in the Army in World War II and fought his
way
from North Africa to Italy (and to this day, will not talk about it):
And to all those who served, thank you. Have a great Veteran's Day.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II, 150 hours
Wild Weasel #1753
F-4G Instructor Pilot
Major, USAF, Retired
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
do not archive
=
==
==
==
==
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil on the
>belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this large black
>rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know what to
>do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB upper plate
>just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of fitting
>there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole problem just
>goes away-
>
No, the problem doesn't go away. All you've done is transferred the
problem elsewhere. First, the problem is with a tired engine, or one
that has some seal, valve guide, or ring problem. There is the problem,
and fixing the problem is the only sure and safe way. Continued
operation only leads to higher oil consumption. Masked by oil
separators, recirculators (like you mentioned) you feel 'good' about
it. BUT, the solution above will only result in oil in the cowl since
the oil will slowly drain down into the airbox (I'm new to RVs and don't
know what a FAB really is) after shutdown. Well, that solution would
work if you left the engine running all the time!!!
But, what happens to the oil you've sucked up into the carb? Well, it's
going to carbon up the piston and valve tops and sometime down the road
(airway: 8-) ) you'll suffer engine run-on during shutdown.
Everything here is speculation, of course, because I don't know anyone
that's performed this particular mod to their airplanes .... or at least
admitted that they had tried it.
Linn
>Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is there that
>much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers cranked
>out in the last forty years?
>
>Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
>Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
>
>
>
Message 8
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"rocket-list" <rocket-list@matronics.com>, "Paul Ray" <pray@attglobal.net>
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Offical results on EAA's Young Eagles web site for today show 999,695 YE
flights so far. It was at 1,400+ to go yesterday so todays listings should
put us way over the top. Many RV & Rocket flights are included in these
historic numbers. 8*) KABONG Chapter #768 V.P. Do Not Archive
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Check out the C-MAP Aviation EKB-III.
I had a Garmin 196 last year that was stolen. I liked the Garmin but
the display was really to small for me to use when flying. At my desk,
in the car, at the sales counter and at the dining table after supper,
the 196 was ok......When flying it was unusable because of the display
size and location where I had to mount it. Everyone has different
requirements, physical eye site limitations and all that. The Garmin has
one of the best user interfaces (button logic) out there....(and the
EKP-III also has very easy user interfaces). A new, Mono color EKP-III
with new Jepp card is 599$ from the factory-thats a 400 dollar saving
over the mono 196. The color EKP in 1550$. RAM-MOUNT company has
hundreds of RAM Mount combos and I mounted mine on the right cabin rail
so I can swing it up and out of the way when I exit the RV-4.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is doing its job - & in
so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I eventually bought a #41
drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next size smaller than #40,
obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when dimple, hole is slightly
enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>
> Hi everyone,
> I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
>
> The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> offset.
>
> Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to
use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip error).
My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement to
have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm
thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are
the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at the same time since
if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone?
I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between with and without static in
the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break the
VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Doug Fischer
90706
I'm planning on putting a tee in the line in the cabin and installing an
accessible fuel drain valve that can be locked in the open position. SAF-AIR
pn. 1250 would fit the bill.
Stan Blanton
Message 12
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| Subject: | Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Hi all,
I was an attendee of Bob's seminar last weekend on wiring your aircraft, and I
just wanted to let those on the list know that if you haven't taken this seminar...sign
up ASAP. Bob is hands down the aviation wiring Guru. He imparts his
knowledge with a passion that only comes from someone who does what he does because
he loves doing it!
The cost is more than fair and you will save 3-10 times the $150 you spend by not
buying things you don't need, or having to 'start over' after you realize you
haven't done your wiring job correctly (ie: simply/easlily).
Ron Patterson
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
What is an EKP-III?
> From: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
> Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:08:07 -0500
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: GPSMAP196 Price
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
> Check out the C-MAP Aviation EKB-III.
>
> I had a Garmin 196 last year that was stolen. I liked the Garmin but
> the display was really to small for me to use when flying. At my desk,
> in the car, at the sales counter and at the dining table after supper,
> the 196 was ok......When flying it was unusable because of the display
> size and location where I had to mount it. Everyone has different
> requirements, physical eye site limitations and all that. The Garmin has
> one of the best user interfaces (button logic) out there....(and the
> EKP-III also has very easy user interfaces). A new, Mono color EKP-III
> with new Jepp card is 599$ from the factory-thats a 400 dollar saving
> over the mono 196. The color EKP in 1550$. RAM-MOUNT company has
> hundreds of RAM Mount combos and I mounted mine on the right cabin rail
> so I can swing it up and out of the way when I exit the RV-4.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Painting tip (simple and cleaver) |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
In any gravity spray gun (the gun with the paint hopper on the top), a
old timmer offered up this tip. I was complaining about spraying the
underside of my wings with my gravity gun and using the bags (another
great invention escentially using the formula bottle bags for infants in
your gun to spray at odd angles and even upsidedown) He said to simply
use a 45 degree fitting in the bottom of the paint hopper where it
connects to the spray gun handle assembly. I sprayed the underside of
the wings with ease and the 45 degree elbo was easy to remove....cool
idea.
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Gkb5577@aol.com
It,s interesting to read all the comments on the 196 and AHRSs. I bought
the 196-but agree, the screen is too small. Thought I had a solution with the
Icarus microEFIS but need help from some of you computer gurus: Steve Silverman
at Icarus says that the Compaq Aero 8000 I have is too slow to carry the fast
updating that their product provides and that's why it can only be linked
into the iPaq 38xx or 39xx series; Can the 230MIPs processor of the iPaq really
be that much faster than the 133MIPs processor in the Aero laptop??? Is it
possible to install a faster processor? More generally, does anyone else have
the microEFIS +/- the Garmin196 tied into it? Geoff
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
http://aviation.c-map.com/
Denis Walsh wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
>
>What is an EKP-III?
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Hi All,
After painting the tail on my RV4 I find the leading edges need more paint.
What is the best way to touch them up with out building up a ridge and
overspray on the other surfaces? I am using Randolph Products, Acrylic
Lacquer, Tennessee Red.
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Jim--
PCV?PVC?--whatever...just get schedule 80 and hook it up...
It's my understanding that a PCV valve equalizes crankcase pressure
best when there is a variable but still positive pressure
differential--this is good for a car going from stoplight to stoplight,
but not so good for an opposed-cylinder, flat airplane engine at
altitude and at constant rpm. Also, airplane engines are often
operated for (long?) periods of time near max output (while a car
engine rarely does this), when the pressure differential is almost nil
(wide-open throttle). Get a ride in a Ford Thunderbird Super-Coupe
(supercharged engine)--if you can still find one--and watch the
vacuum--aka, pressure gauge.
I wrote a note a while back (actually, copied (stole) it from some one
else but I can't remember who)--(should be in the archives) on how to
set-up a simple manometer to check crankcase pressure for piston-ring
gas blow-by and such.
Crap--after reading it I can't tell if that's a good explanation, or
not--be thankful I'm not teaching your children.
Boyd.
do not archive
ASCDDC
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 04:52 AM, Jim Jewell wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Hi Boyd,
>
> I don't have an opinion pro or con re-PVC valves to offer at this
> point.
> However I think it would be helpful if you would be willing to flesh
> out
> your statement with some facts and findings. Then those lacking
> information
> as to why to use or not to use PCV valves on aircraft engines would
> have the
> basis for developing an understanding based on reasoning as apposed to
> hearsay.
>
> Please don't take this as a cheap shot or criticism.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Cure for Slimybellyosis?
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>>
>> Oh, and don't use a PVC valve on an aircraft engine that runs at a
>> fairly constant rpm--you won't like the result.
>> On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 02:04 AM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>>>
>>> After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
>>> on the
>>> belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
>>> large black
>>> rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
>>> what to
>>> do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
>>> upper plate
>>> just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
>>> fitting
>>> there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
>>> problem just
>>> goes away-
>>>
>>> Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
>>> there that
>>> much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
>>> cranked
>>> out in the last forty years?
>>>
>>> Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
>>> Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
>>>
>>>
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Bruce Bell wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
>
>Hi All,
>After painting the tail on my RV4 I find the leading edges need more paint.
>What is the best way to touch them up with out building up a ridge and
>overspray on the other surfaces?
>
Well, the best thing is to mask off on a seam or adjacent color, but
since there's no seam ....... and maybe no other color ...... here's
what I do:
Take your touch-up spray gun and cut the paint until thin. Mask off the
leading edge about 6" back, and drape everything else with plastic ....
it's cheap. Cut down the pressure on the gun and shut off the fan
(paint fan, not electric fan :-D ) air until you get just a little paint
to spray. Spray the leading edges, and get real close .... but keep the
gun moving so you don't get runs. Use many real light coats, waiting 15
minutes between coats. If you have to, leave the area and hangar fly
with your neighbors or get a drink. Anything to keep from painting too
soon. Remember LIGHT coats!!!
> I am using Randolph Products, Acrylic
>Lacquer, Tennessee Red.
>
OOOH! Love that Tennessee Red!!! Painted my Pitts with it (Stits)!!!
Go to your auto parts place and ask for polishing compound for acrylic
lacquer. After the paint is thoroughly cured, use a buffer to polish
out the overspray. the closer you get to the leading edge, the more
polishing it will take, but with a little practice it will blend into
the old stuff.
When I paint the leading edges, I make sure to get a couple of extra
passes there. Don't forget the spinner (if you're painting it) nose and
wheel pants. They all take a beating in the rain and from gravel on the
ramp.
Linn
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>RV4 # 2888
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>
> But, what happens to the oil you've sucked up into the carb? Well, it's
> going to carbon up the piston and valve tops and sometime down the road
> (airway: 8-) ) you'll suffer engine run-on during shutdown.
>
I respectfully disagree. An auto engine is shut off with the ignition
system, deposits, not just carbon, on the piston tops can cause engine
run-on. When you kill the engine with the mixture like in an airplane, your
engine will not run-on unless it is blowing buy and burning enough oil to
sustain combustion. If an engine had that much blow by it would have to be
REALLY sick! Plus, most of the "deposits" on the piston top come from the
ash (metallic additives) in the oil. Aircraft oil is ashless.
I don't buy the acid thing either, there is a very minimal amount of sulphur
in gasoline and that would not significantly increase chemical corrosion in
the engine.
PVC systems are naturally kind of dirty and maybe the risk a backfire
resulting in a fire in the air filter might not be worth the reward.
The main reason I can see why PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) would not
work in an airplane is we run at wide open throttle too much and there would
be no negative manifold pressure to positively ventilate the crankcase. At
those high power settings when the blow by was greatest, there would still
have to be a breather of some sort. and if your engine was tired, it would
still drip on the belly.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Hi Bruce,
I had the same problem. Several years ago, on PBS there was
a program "Classic Car Shop" on restoring an old Mustang. In the episode of
repainting they showed a good trick on how to meld new paint to old. They
put a line of tape over the old tape and peeled up the tape where the new
spray would be applied. This essentially shadows the new paint so it doesn't
form a ridge if you spray obliquely to the raised tape. I tried it using 2"
wide green masking tape raising 1" of the edge where the fresh paint will be
sprayed at ~ 30 degree angle then applied the paint.--- Damned if I could
see any ridge!
Cheers!!------ Henry Hore
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Jim;
I talked to my Dad, an IA about your idea and he said PCV valves and air cooled
engines don't mix. Just look at any old Volkswagen. Large tolerances in air-cooled
engines are such that some air(and oil) escapes through the ring gaps
between the three piston rings no matter how good you build the engine. The oil
and air exits into the crankcase where it is thrown overboard under pressure.
The separator is a catch-all but does keep the belly clean.
My RV4's 0-320 chrome cyllinders still test at 78/80 but burn about 1 qt every
6 hours. The air-oil separator helps. My Lycoming engine book states the allowable
oil consumption is 1/2 (.5) pints per hour......
Good Luck....
RR
Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem
Jim--
PCV?PVC?--whatever...just get schedule 80 and hook it up...
It's my understanding that a PCV valve equalizes crankcase pressure
best when there is a variable but still positive pressure
differential--this is good for a car going from stoplight to stoplight,
but not so good for an opposed-cylinder, flat airplane engine at
altitude and at constant rpm. Also, airplane engines are often
operated for (long?) periods of time near max output (while a car
engine rarely does this), when the pressure differential is almost nil
(wide-open throttle). Get a ride in a Ford Thunderbird Super-Coupe
(supercharged engine)--if you can still find one--and watch the
vacuum--aka, pressure gauge.
I wrote a note a while back (actually, copied (stole) it from some one
else but I can't remember who)--(should be in the archives) on how to
set-up a simple manometer to check crankcase pressure for piston-ring
gas blow-by and such.
Crap--after reading it I can't tell if that's a good explanation, or
not--be thankful I'm not teaching your children.
Boyd.
do not archive
ASCDDC
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 04:52 AM, Jim Jewell wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell"
>
> Hi Boyd,
>
> I don't have an opinion pro or con re-PVC valves to offer at this
> point.
> However I think it would be helpful if you would be willing to flesh
> out
> your statement with some facts and findings. Then those lacking
> information
> as to why to use or not to use PCV valves on aircraft engines would
> have the
> basis for developing an understanding based on reasoning as apposed to
> hearsay.
>
> Please don't take this as a cheap shot or criticism.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boyd Braem"
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Cure for Slimybellyosis?
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem
>>
>> Oh, and don't use a PVC valve on an aircraft engine that runs at a
>> fairly constant rpm--you won't like the result.
>> On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 02:04 AM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>>>
>>> After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
>>> on the
>>> belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
>>> large black
>>> rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
>>> what to
>>> do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
>>> upper plate
>>> just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
>>> fitting
>>> there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
>>> problem just
>>> goes away-
>>>
>>> Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
>>> there that
>>> much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
>>> cranked
>>> out in the last forty years?
>>>
>>> Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
>>> Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
>>>
>>>
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>> _-
>>> =====================================================================
>>> ==
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
All,
Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we made in
our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring Bob
on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' workshops
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:21:45 -0800 (PST)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I was an attendee of Bob's seminar last weekend on wiring your aircraft,
>and I just wanted to let those on the list know that if you haven't taken
>this seminar...sign up ASAP. Bob is hands down the aviation wiring Guru. He
>imparts his knowledge with a passion that only comes from someone who does
>what he does because he loves doing it!
>
>The cost is more than fair and you will save 3-10 times the $150 you spend
>by not buying things you don't need, or having to 'start over' after you
>realize you haven't done your wiring job correctly (ie: simply/easlily).
>
>Ron Patterson
>
>
Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus
scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Binzer" <robinzer@seidata.com>
If your trying to find the story and picture of the RV-6a that crashed in
Ventura Co. The link given is okay. Scroll down in the County News for Nov
8th. You will find the article and picture.
RDB
Message 25
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| Subject: | Pipe is pipe or is it ???? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
PCV: Positive Crankcase Ventilation (a check valve system, one way flow).
Normal routing, crankcase vent hose to air cleaner housing on cars (dark
oily mark on air cleaner medium & goo in the bottom of housing). {most cars
not designed to go upside down, negative G or 4G turns}.
PVC: Poly Vinyl Chloride. Basic plastic water pipe, Sch. 80 (CPVC) Very
thick, threadable in a pipe machine (dark gray) Sch. 40 (PVC) Standard use
water pipe, glue joints (white & light gray). Several white PVC types from
as thin as an egg shell to Sch.40 and some special use types ie; natural
gas.
OK... OK... there is PVC elecrtical pipe/tube that "sparky's" call conduit.
KABONG 8*) Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cure for Slimybellyosis?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
> Jim--
> PCV?PVC?--whatever...just get schedule 80 and hook it up...
> >>
Oh, and don't use a PVC valve on an aircraft engine that runs at a
> >> fairly constant rpm--you won't like the result.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate static sources |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
I guess it comes down to $$. How much is a VSI? Probably more than $200.
I'd opt for the static option in the pitot. Or, you can save the money now,
and then roll the dice. Personally, I would roll the dice. In a pinch, you
could break the glass, but it is not likely that you will ice over both
static ports unless you really plan on flying some hard IFR, in my opinion.
Don't want to start a debate on IFR flight, but I think too much redunancy
is overkill. We train for things to fail, so deal with what you have, and
maintain an adequate balance of how much redunancy you really need. Bob
Knuckolls book describes this in detail with his electrical system. Design
it right, build it right, and put in minimal backup, and you shouldn't have
Murphy come visit you.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternate static sources
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
>
>
> A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to
> use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip
error).
> My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement
to
> have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm
> thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are
> the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at the same time
since
> if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone?
> I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between with and without static
in
> the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break the
> VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
>
> Doug Fischer
> 90706
>
> I'm planning on putting a tee in the line in the cabin and installing an
> accessible fuel drain valve that can be locked in the open position.
SAF-AIR
> pn. 1250 would fit the bill.
>
>
> Stan Blanton
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared2@brier.net>
Everyone seems to have an opinion on this issue and so do I.
1. It is normal to be apprehensive about the first flight. Two years
after my first flight I still get butterflys thinking about it. If you are
not apprehensive about the first flight then you really should not make it.
2. I built my airplane and for 100% of it's flight hours, I have been the
PIC. This airplane of mine is an extension of me, I made it, it was my
sweat and tears that put it together. I was not going to let someone else
do the honors of the first flight.
3. I have found the RV6 much easier to land and takeoff than a Citabria,
if you need more TD training, find a Citabria. Or go to Arizona and have
Budd Davidson teach you how to land a Pitts, if you can handle a Pitts then
you will have no problem with an RV.
4. Regardless of who makes the first airplane flight, you must still make
your first flight. All of the previous poster's precautions still
apply. Just because Chuck Yeager flew it, that does not mean you can.
5. There comes a day when you just need to open the throttle and go for
it. Remember a little fear is good. If you can consistently wheel land a
Citabria without a bounce, then you can land an RV. After a 8 hour check
out with Mike Seger, It took me another 50 hours in the Citabria and just
before my first flight an additional 3 hours in a Luscombe before I felt
ready (all of this time was in the traffic pattern shooting touch and goes
and some fullstops). I had a little over 200 hours total PIC when I did my
first flight.
6. Astronauts are so good because, in my opinion, they are so over
trained. Get more training, then get some more, ( and I don't mean more
from Mike Seger), when you feel overtrained, then go for it. My first
flight was anticlimatic, sort of a real let down, nothing went wrong! That
is good.
7. In the end, only you can weigh the risks versus the rewards. Use good
judgement rather than emotion in making the decision. Either decision will
be forever.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Dana, Michael, anyone else who is interested
Contrary to Sam's assurances, the statement that I quoted from Blue
Mountain's discussion list was not likely from Blue Mountain, but I can't be
sure. They have a very free wheeling discussion list that airs comments,
questions and complaints from customers and non-customers alike. Several
company employees participate but as far as I can tell, they do it under
their own names. Most of the posts seem to be about ideas for future
developments or resolving installation questions. Most of the complaints
have had to do with delivery schedules rather than performance of the
equipment. It would appear that many of their customers are enthusiastic
about what they have received, and especially about the constant upgrading
going on at Blue Mountain, based largely on customer suggestions. Their
discussion list is wide open to anyone. You don't have to subscribe or
identify yourself to either read or post messages.
I do have a vested interest here. I have put up a lot of money in a bet
that what they are delivering is worth the money. The EFIS/one I am
currently installing in my still under construction RV-8A has performed on
the ground exactly as predicted by Blue Mountain. It was delivered as
promised for the price they committed to over a year ago. It had been
upgraded significantly since my order was placed. I had the option of not
going along with one hardware addition that was recommended at an additional
cost. I chose to go along with it. My dealings with them have always been
handled to my satisfaction.
One thing I do want to emphasize here is that in this really fascinating
free-for-all new industry developing EFIS for experimental airplanes, there
seems to be a whole lot of half truths being thrown around. In the long run
we will all benefit as the laws of physics and the market sort it out. I am
very comfortable with where I have put my money, but as is obvious, I am
frustrated by the self-appointed authorities who seem motivated by something
other than a search for the truth. As for Sam's history with Blue Mountain,
it's all there on their discussion list for anyone to see. It certainly
appears to me that they have treated him with more fairness and generosity
than he has them.
As for "honorable business practices", I am unaware of anything other than
companies bashing each other's products or technology which I do find less
than honorable. I think any accusation of more than that needs to be backed
up by something or it becomes a close kin what it is claming another to be
guilty of. If you are holding Blue Mountain responsible for what an
anonymous person posted on their discussion list (and I quoted to this list)
and you are doing it because Sam said it was from them, then I think you are
making a mistake.
Just to be very clear here, I don't want to imply any criticism of Dynon or
GRT or any other manufacturer here. Even the accounts of bashing each
other's products are almost always 3rd hand. When you talk to the
principles involved, you will almost always find courtesy and respect for
their perceived competitors. I especially don't want to offend those who
have chosen Dynon. I know a little bit about Dynon. I think it's a great
company with a great product. I like the way they do business. I do not
see them and Blue Mountain as head to head competitors. Their products
overlap, but they are not the same, at least not yet. My BMA EFIS/one is a
virtual glass cockpit. It includes the AHRS, but it also includes the air
data (so does Dynon) plus a GPS based moving map display instantly
switchable from two VFR modes to IFR high altitude and IFR low altitude. It
has a real synthetic vision display, showing the GPS derived terrain on the
horizon of the attitude indicator if you select that mode. This terrain
shows in red if it is at or above your current elevation, as it does on the
VFR moving map display. It uses the GPS and air data information to compute
and display wind speed and direction. It has a large, readable H.S.I. which
can be digitally interfaced with an Apollo SL30 nav/com and some other
radios to set com frequencies, VOR, ILS, ILS back course, Localizer, Virtual
VOR (VOR derived from GPS data) and glide slope. It displays all the engine
gauges that you choose with the limits and ranges you set and alerts you to
over or under limit or defective readings even when you do not have the
engine gauges displayed. It has an optional 2 axis autopilot that will fly
the flight plan you program with a very logical on-screen waypoint selection
process. It will use your set climb and decent speeds, or vertical set climb
and decent rates.
But way back to what I saw as misinformation that started all this: The
AHRS does use GPS information to verify and correct the information it
presents, but to criticize it for that as compared to a mechanical gyro is
truly unfair. A mechanical gyro precesses and needs to be periodically set
level, manually. The AHRS constantly checks itself against GPS information
and provides it's own correction. In the event that is loses GPS contact for
whatever reason, it still performs like a mechanical gyro.
Time will tell who has the right idea and the right product here. If I have
misstated anything it is truly unintentional and I'm sure someone will
correct me. I have said way too much, but I hate to see what I perceive as a
good and honorable company with a truly outstanding product being bashed
unfairly.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 finishing
Seattle
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
Vans used to, in the old kits before prepunched holes, recommend all holes
be drilled with a #41 drill that were going to be dimpled. I haven't read
his instructions in the RV9; I just have been working from my old memory and
still do it that way. His logic was the same as yours- makes the hole a
little nicer after dimpling.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
> Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is doing its job - &
in
> so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I eventually bought a #41
> drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next size smaller than #40,
> obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when dimple, hole is slightly
> enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> >
> > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > offset.
> >
> > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> >
> >
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Young Eagles |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Offical results on EAA's Young Eagles web site for today show 999,695 YE
> flights so far. It was at 1,400+ to go yesterday so todays listings should
> put us way over the top. Many RV & Rocket flights are included in these
> historic numbers. 8*) KABONG Chapter #768 V.P. Do Not Archive
Hopefully I can tell our chapter Prez that she can relax, now. Our little
chapter of about 20, or so, members did about 1700 of those. I took up 311
of them, myself. When I flew to a recent YE day for our chapter and
realized the winds were too strong for what I felt was safe for my
passengers, my airplane, and me, I returned to my home base and drove back
to their airport. One of the other pilots who chose to take kids up got
onto me pretty strongly because I wouldn't do it. I felt a little guilty
about it; but, I still think I made the right decision for me. He was
really fired up to get that magic number. I wasn't as fired up because I
felt I'd earned the priviledge of backing off for one day and realized there
was no stopping us, now. I just looked at the list at EAA and see that I
still hold the record for having taken up more kids, and a lot of their
parents, in the program than anyone else in KY. I'm pretty proud of that
little fact. :-) If there's anything that's kept me in the EAA in recent
years, it's been that one program.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net
So Im sitting at my desk around 11:30 (PST) this morning thinking about
flying. And why wouldnt I my first flight was three days ago; my computer
background screen is a picture from my first flight; I have Vans calendar
with Jim Erskines RV-6/7 on the wall; I have the 2003 at-a-glance page
from last years calendar next to it with Dan Benuas RV-6A over that; I have
my daughters watercolor of an RV-6A right in front of me.
Today is a spectacular day in the Pacific Northwest. Cool, but not cold. I
look at the weather forecast for this weekend, rain and more rain. Grumble!
Grumble! I check the metar: calm winds, no ceiling, 10 miles of
visibility. I look outside and all I see is sun. The sirens song gets
louder and louder. Finally, I succumb.
A quick stop to get gas in the car and it is off to the airport. On the
road, while a bit hazy, I can still see mountains more than 50 miles away. I
know it will be clearer in the air. Forty-five minutes later, I am opening
the hangar. There she sits, MY AIRPLANE! Even without paint and main gear
pants & fairings, she is a very beautiful lady to me. I pull N276DM out and
start to pre-flight. A friend, Harley Beard, who is building a 6A just
happens to drop by and we chat while I finish the pre-flight. My engine
start procedure (without a priming system) is not completely figured out yet,
but soon the engine is singing its song.
Taxi, runup, announce, and then on the runway. Stick neutral, add power,
lift the nose just off the runway, hold it there, and then we are flying!
Climb up to 5000 (Arlington is about 140) to enhance my gliding range.
Level off and power back to 2400 rpm. Today is a break in the engine day.
Up here, I can see a huge hunk of the Puget Sound and freshly snowed on
mountains almost every which way I look! I fly north up to Skagit airport
circling it at 5000. I do some turns around the hills and check out a small
antenna farm. While always a little nervous, after all, its a new (rebuilt)
engine and airplane, I am content to float up here and look down on my
surroundings. I check out the Dynon EFIS-D10: attitude looks great,
airspeed within a couple of miles per hours compared to my ASI, altitude
within 20-30 feet. Even in the bright sunlight with sunglasses, I can easily
see the display. All too soon, I head back to Arlington. Going down hill to
pattern altitude, I see 180 mph on the airspeed. There is only one other
plane in the pattern so I easily enter the downwind. Downwind checks, now
abeam the numbers, power back, hold the nose up to bleed off airspeed. First
notch of manual flaps, turn base, second notch of flaps (Hmm, maybe I should
put electric flaps in this thing!), and then the turn to final. Stabilized
at 85, keep the number in the windshield like Mike Seager taught me. Close
to the ground, so level off. Much better today, one of my biggest problems
is leveling off too high above the runway. Now flare, more flare, more
flare, touchdown! Keep the nose off the ground until the plane refuses to
hold it up any longer. Cool, I could have made the first turnoff easily, but
I coast on by since I need gas which is farther down the runway anyway. Off
the runway and taxi to the pumps. Shutdown. A moment for reflection: this
collection of metal, wire, fiberglass, etc. really is an airplane. 12 years
and 2500 hours have resulted in me being able to fulfill my dream of flight,
a dream I have had ever since I can remember.
My first fill up: 29.14 gallons, $74.63. Yikes! Thats a bunch of money!
But is it? Lets see, 29 gallons are about 3-1/2 hours of flight. How much
does it cost to go to a college or professional sporting event? How about a
concert? Yes, it is expensive, but those 3-1/2 hours of flight will give me
more pleasure and satisfaction than a lot of other activities. Yes, I know
there are other costs involved, but Im satisfied with my choice of leisure
activity. Finally, its back to the hanger, clean the windscreen, and the
drive back to work. Guess what I was thinking about during those 45 minutes!
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM
PS I promise not to file a flight report for every flight, maybe every
second or third! Just kidding!
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Compare a Dynon to the Blue Mountain |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Stratman" <pauls@kc.rr.com>
I was reading on the Blue mountain site how crappy the Dynon is. This
statement came from Greg right after he stated as "never having flown the
Dynon".
BROTHER!
Anyway, I kept reading Greg's post and saw this:
For grins, try this with one of the cheapies:
1. Fly a series of bank to back Chandelles and recover on the instrument.
Watch it closely -- a nasty trick is to re-erect the solution as soon as the
plane isn't accelerating. Makes a pretty demo, but a dangerous instrument.
2. Turn 360 degrees in a 2 degree bank, then 4 degrees, then 6 then 8 then
10 then 20, 30, 45, and finally into 60 degrees banked turn. Having done 9
orbits, recover on the instrument. This classic VFR into IMC spiral has a
known effect on this class of instrument and is worth seeing, if you intend
to use one.
Well GREG, guess what? I have done this with the Dynon and it passes the
test with flying colors. I have been flying with the Dynon now for 125 hrs
and simply can not believe how nice a piece of equipment this is for the $
1995.00 price tag. Way to go Dynon!
Paul Stratman
RV-6A
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
Directions specify #40 and #30 for all match-drillng on the empennage
at least. Which makes me a bit hesitant to switch to #41...cracks from
expanding the hole are an obvious concern but seem unlikely to me...
On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:57:37PM -0600, Curt Hoffman wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
>
> Vans used to, in the old kits before prepunched holes, recommend all holes
> be drilled with a #41 drill that were going to be dimpled. I haven't read
> his instructions in the RV9; I just have been working from my old memory and
> still do it that way. His logic was the same as yours- makes the hole a
> little nicer after dimpling.
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
> Quick build fuselage now in basement
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
> 1974 TR6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> >
> > Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is doing its job - &
> in
> > so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I eventually bought a #41
> > drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next size smaller than #40,
> > obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when dimple, hole is slightly
> > enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > > problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > > skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > > bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > > cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > > -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > > (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > > (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > > see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > > dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > > like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > > offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > > Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > > since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > > to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > > an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > > slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Hmmm, let's see what sticks on the wall:
Boyd Braem wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
>Jim--
>PCV?PVC?--whatever...just get schedule 80 and hook it up...
>
>It's my understanding that a PCV valve equalizes crankcase pressure
>best when there is a variable but still positive pressure
>differential
>
True. The valve was there to allow the crankcase to vent into the
intake system so the oily smoke wouldn't vent to the atmosphere. I
don't know why there needs to be a valve, but it's there.
>--this is good for a car going from stoplight to stoplight,
>but not so good for an opposed-cylinder, flat airplane engine at
>altitude and at constant rpm.
>
I really don't see why.
> Also, airplane engines are often
>operated for (long?) periods of time near max output (while a car
>engine rarely does this), when the pressure differential is almost nil
>(wide-open throttle).
>
Huh? The intake may be at ambient pressure when wide open, but the
crankcase will have higher positive pressure due to some compression
leaking past the rings. They ain't perfect!
> Get a ride in a Ford Thunderbird Super-Coupe
>(supercharged engine)--if you can still find one--and watch the
>vacuum--aka, pressure gauge.
>
I'd love the ride but a manifold pressure gauge would do the same thing
on an aircraft engine.
>I wrote a note a while back (actually, copied (stole) it from some one
>else but I can't remember who)--(should be in the archives) on how to
>set-up a simple manometer to check crankcase pressure for piston-ring
>gas blow-by and such.
>
>Crap--after reading it I can't tell if that's a good explanation, or
>not--be thankful I'm not teaching your children.
>
Actually, we know there will be some pressure on a new engine, and that
it increases as the engine gets tired. You don't need to really measure
it since there's no standard anyway ...... just stick a hose over the
crankcase vent (cover the whistle hole if it has one) and stuff the free
end into a bucket of water. The relative violence of the bubbles in the
water is your indication.
Linn
>Boyd.
>
>do not archive
>
>ASCDDC
>On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 04:52 AM, Jim Jewell wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>>
>>Hi Boyd,
>>
>>I don't have an opinion pro or con re-PVC valves to offer at this
>>point.
>>However I think it would be helpful if you would be willing to flesh
>>out
>>your statement with some facts and findings. Then those lacking
>>information
>>as to why to use or not to use PCV valves on aircraft engines would
>>have the
>>basis for developing an understanding based on reasoning as apposed to
>>hearsay.
>>
>>Please don't take this as a cheap shot or criticism.
>>
>>Jim in Kelowna
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Cure for Slimybellyosis?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>>>
>>>Oh, and don't use a PVC valve on an aircraft engine that runs at a
>>>fairly constant rpm--you won't like the result.
>>>On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 02:04 AM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>>>>
>>>>After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
>>>>on the
>>>>belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
>>>>large black
>>>>rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
>>>>what to
>>>>do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
>>>>upper plate
>>>>just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
>>>>fitting
>>>>there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
>>>>problem just
>>>>goes away-
>>>>
>>>>Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
>>>>there that
>>>>much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
>>>>cranked
>>>>out in the last forty years?
>>>>
>>>>Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
>>>>Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Alternate static sources |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer@iserv.net>
>
>A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR
>and to use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out
>any slip error). My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need
>with this arrangement to have yet a third port for redundancy? A
>heated pitot is the way I'm thinking (at least it would be a source
>that wouldn't ice over). What are the odds of both fuselage ports
>freezing or clogging at the same time since if one did, the other
>would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone? I'm wondering
>if the price delta of $200 between with and without static in the
>pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break
>the VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
>
>Doug Fischer
There are many different ways to lose the static system. It may be
possible to have some moisture get in the system, and then freeze in
a low spot in the tubing. Or the mud daubers could get you - if they
are around and in the mood, they could easily get both static ports.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
dmedema@att.net wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net
>
>So Im sitting at my desk around 11:30 (PST) this morning thinking about
>flying. And why wouldnt I my first flight was three days ago; my computer
>background screen is a picture from my first flight; I have Vans calendar
>with Jim Erskines RV-6/7 on the wall; I have the 2003 at-a-glance page
>from last years calendar next to it with Dan Benuas RV-6A over that; I have
>my daughters watercolor of an RV-6A right in front of me.
>
>Today is a spectacular day in the Pacific Northwest. Cool, but not cold. I
>look at the weather forecast for this weekend, rain and more rain. Grumble!
>Grumble! I check the metar: calm winds, no ceiling, 10 miles of
>visibility. I look outside and all I see is sun. The sirens song gets
>louder and louder. Finally, I succumb.
>
>A quick stop to get gas in the car and it is off to the airport. On the
>road, while a bit hazy, I can still see mountains more than 50 miles away. I
>know it will be clearer in the air. Forty-five minutes later, I am opening
>the hangar. There she sits, MY AIRPLANE! Even without paint and main gear
>pants & fairings, she is a very beautiful lady to me. I pull N276DM out and
>start to pre-flight. A friend, Harley Beard, who is building a 6A just
>happens to drop by and we chat while I finish the pre-flight. My engine
>start procedure (without a priming system) is not completely figured out yet,
>but soon the engine is singing its song.
>
>Taxi, runup, announce, and then on the runway. Stick neutral, add power,
>lift the nose just off the runway, hold it there, and then we are flying!
>Climb up to 5000 (Arlington is about 140) to enhance my gliding range.
>Level off and power back to 2400 rpm. Today is a break in the engine day.
>Up here, I can see a huge hunk of the Puget Sound and freshly snowed on
>mountains almost every which way I look! I fly north up to Skagit airport
>circling it at 5000. I do some turns around the hills and check out a small
>antenna farm. While always a little nervous, after all, its a new (rebuilt)
>engine and airplane, I am content to float up here and look down on my
>surroundings. I check out the Dynon EFIS-D10: attitude looks great,
>airspeed within a couple of miles per hours compared to my ASI, altitude
>within 20-30 feet. Even in the bright sunlight with sunglasses, I can easily
>see the display. All too soon, I head back to Arlington. Going down hill to
>pattern altitude, I see 180 mph on the airspeed. There is only one other
>plane in the pattern so I easily enter the downwind. Downwind checks, now
>abeam the numbers, power back, hold the nose up to bleed off airspeed. First
>notch of manual flaps, turn base, second notch of flaps (Hmm, maybe I should
>put electric flaps in this thing!), and then the turn to final. Stabilized
>at 85, keep the number in the windshield like Mike Seager taught me. Close
>to the ground, so level off. Much better today, one of my biggest problems
>is leveling off too high above the runway. Now flare, more flare, more
>flare, touchdown! Keep the nose off the ground until the plane refuses to
>hold it up any longer. Cool, I could have made the first turnoff easily, but
>I coast on by since I need gas which is farther down the runway anyway. Off
>the runway and taxi to the pumps. Shutdown. A moment for reflection: this
>collection of metal, wire, fiberglass, etc. really is an airplane. 12 years
>and 2500 hours have resulted in me being able to fulfill my dream of flight,
>a dream I have had ever since I can remember.
>
>My first fill up: 29.14 gallons, $74.63. Yikes! Thats a bunch of money!
>But is it? Lets see, 29 gallons are about 3-1/2 hours of flight. How much
>does it cost to go to a college or professional sporting event? How about a
>concert? Yes, it is expensive, but those 3-1/2 hours of flight will give me
>more pleasure and satisfaction than a lot of other activities. Yes, I know
>there are other costs involved, but Im satisfied with my choice of leisure
>activity. Finally, its back to the hanger, clean the windscreen, and the
>drive back to work. Guess what I was thinking about during those 45 minutes!
>
>Doug Medema
>RV-6A N276DM
>
>PS I promise not to file a flight report for every flight, maybe every
>second or third! Just kidding!
>
Great post! And congratulations! I read it and by gosh, I was there!
Whew, 12 years! I am so blessed .... There's a couple of guys working
on a Wheeler Express .... 13 years .... they'll be flying by 14 ......
but my Pitts took me 3 years. Lots of all-nighters on that one. I'm
hoping the -10 will go together in 2 years. I have a friend that built
his -6 in 19 months and he had to drill all the holes!!! Don'tcha just
love incurable optimists???
Linn
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Young Eagles |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
The number was only part of the goal. High winds, bouncy weather caused our
chapter to cancel two of of YE days in the last year. YE flights are to be
enjoyable not white knucklers for the kids. We're trying to draw them into
the fold not have them run screaming from the airport never to return. Do
Not Archive KABONG 8*)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Young Eagles
> > Offical results on EAA's Young Eagles web site for today show 999,695 YE
> > flights so far.
> When I flew to a recent YE day for our chapter and
> realized the winds were too strong for what I felt was safe for my
> passengers, my airplane, and me, I returned to my home base and drove back
> to their airport. One of the other pilots who chose to take kids up got
> onto me pretty strongly because I wouldn't do it.
Message 38
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| Subject: | reluctant reply to: AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Terry Watson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> Dana, Michael, anyone else who is interested
>
> Contrary to Sam's assurances, the statement that I quoted from Blue
> Mountain's discussion list was not likely from Blue Mountain, but I can't be
> sure.
<snip>
Good grief.......I sure wish I didn't have to stink up the list with
another post to this thread but my integrity and honesty has been
challenged. Please delete NOW if you don't want to read this response.
I did not make assurances that the "anonymous" post came from Blue Mtn.
Avionics. My statement about BMA's "aggressive marketing" was in
response to the other posts on the BMA forum that day, posts that Terry
didn't realize I had read. BMA's position on the Dynon has already been
challenged by at least one other poster in this thread on this list. My
dog is not in this hunt; I have committed to the Dynon so at this point
it doesn't matter to me which is the superior system. I did find Greg
Richter's assessment of the Dynon to be interesting when he stated
yesterday:
" I figure since the Dynon isn't sold as a flight instrument no one
would buy it except for panel dressing."
Even though I think this is a foolish thing for a manufacturer to say
about another manufacturer from a public relations standpoint, I
certainly defend Greg's right to make such a statement.
but as is obvious, I am
> frustrated by the self-appointed authorities who seem motivated by something
> other than a search for the truth. As for Sam's history with Blue Mountain,
> it's all there on their discussion list for anyone to see. It certainly
> appears to me that they have treated him with more fairness and generosity
> than he has them.
<snip>
With as much beta testing as I have done for various RV-related efforts,
and with a huge volume of posts to this list and others over the past
five years, and after laying bare the construction of my RV-6 to the
critique of thousands of readers on my web site, my credibility as one
who is interested in finding the "truth" is not in doubt.
I am confident that since Terry was referring to someone other than me
when he referenced "self-appointed authorities", I will leave it to
those "authorities" to defend themselves.
As for the detailing of my history with BMA.......Terry, the posts on
the BMA forum don't tell half the story! I have been very careful to be
fair and honest with those posts and the posts I have made on this list.
Here is an excerpt from the latest message to me from Greg Richter
regarding what I had written about my efforts to fly an EFIS/lite:
" Sam, I've read your stuff and haven't gotten on your case about it
since it's factual. I agree we have a cordial relationship and that we
never did get your Lite to go. It was one of the first ones we made, and
I think we had a magnetics issue either in the hardware or way we hung
the thing in the plane, although I'm not sure since I never flew it. At
that time we were playing with a magnetic slaving technique that was
still in it's infancy -- it never worked out for the Lite, although we
do use a variation of it in the EFIS/One for another purpose. Short
version is you said "Don't Work" and I agree, it didn't work for you
when you tried it."
Terry, does that sound like it came from someone who thought I had been
unfair and dishonest with his company? Since that message I have
written very little about the BMA products, and the post of a couple
days ago that seemed to raise your ire was not a dig at BMA, but simply
an illustration in the discussion of solid-state gyro performance in the
absence of GPS data.
I sincerely hope this will put this issue to bed once and for all. These
are exciting times in our world of experimental aviation, and we will
all benefit from the revolutionary work being done in the avionics
community. I wish the best to all the players involved.
Sam Buchanan
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Paul,
The results you describe could also be caused simply by using rivets that
are too long for the application.
Jim in Kelowna
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>
> Hi everyone,
> I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
>
> The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> offset.
>
> Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
> on the
> belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
> large black
> rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
> what to
> do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
> upper plate
> just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
> fitting
> there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
> problem just
> goes away-
>
> Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
> there that
> much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
> cranked
> out in the last forty years?
>
> Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
> Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
Hello,
Mark's slimybellyosis post certainly brought an interesting series of
responses.
I am not an engineer and only have the following to offer.
Like Mark, I to contemplated some form of application of an automotive PCV
valve.
Some general history:
Before PVC, (i.e.) Positive Crankcase Ventilation, combustion engine
crankcases were Passively Ventilated. The blow-by and all it's accompanying
gunk was dumped to the open atmosphere. A simple baffle oil separator and
pipe served to vent the crankcase. For a partially active system often the
outlet end of the pipe was deliberately positioned to take advantage of
airflow to assist in drawing the nastiness out. Engines that suffered
blockage of the venting system or loss of the pipe faced from somewhat to
seriously shortened life cycles due to pressure buildup in the crankcase.
When the pollution that resulted from the "PV" system became generally
recognized as a bad thing the PCV was introduced.
The induction system (carburetor or fuel injection) was recalibrated to
allow a variable flow limiting device with a preset maximum rate to
continuously sample (leak) the crankcase gases into the intake manifold. The
PCV unit was mechanically calibrated to flow a maximum amount with margins
for normal wear that matched the cubic inch displacement of the engine.
Commonly the valve was plugged into a rocker valve or at some point higher
up gravity wise on the engine to aid in oil separation. Again a simple
baffle separator included at this point, was part of the system.
The flow of offending gases were then brought to a fitting on the intake
manifold. Crankcase blow-by gas flow was then regulated by intake manifold
vacuum (automotive speak) or manifold air pressure (aircraft speak).
In the case of low or idle throttle position (lowest manifold vacuum
pressure) the valve's mechanical internal maximum flow calibration came into
play. In the case of full throttle position the air pressure in the
induction manifold is equalized with the ambient outside air. In this case
any extra blow-by gases will in effect be above ambient air pressure and
therefore flow to air flow path into the induction system.
Through re-thinking pollution considerations and some slight engine design
changes internal combustion engines became one more step complicated,
environmentally acceptable and able to utilize a small portion of previously
wasted gases. Weather or not the "previously wasted gases" being introduced
into the intake manifold provide benefit out weighed by mechanical negatives
or not has been argued ever since. The PCV has however become standard
procedure
Failure modes: Along with the added complexity comes our friend Murphy. Few
people driving cars have had knowledge of failures of their PCV system. Most
those that do encounter PCV system failures just think their engine was old
and died of natural causes, hand over the keys to The mechanic, the wrecking
yard, or what have you? When engine wear and old age conspire to overload
the PCV calibration margins the only recourse is to accept the inevitable
and spend some money.
The PCV system is quite robust and seldom fails. When it does it is most
often the valve itself that gets overloaded with crud. Hoses weathering or
blockages in them and their fitting etc. are also culprits
I looked into the possibility of installing a PCV on my O-360. I soon
realized that I was not prepared to re-calibrate the induction system. Also
as the majority of the induction system is housed in the (oil pan) crankcase
area it would be very difficult locate a good location for the PVC gases to
enter the induction system. A hole drilled at the carburetor base is not for
me and I don't care to abide the added failure modes that would be required.
Mark,
I doubt that installing the breather hose to the FAB will work as you
intend, In flight this box is actually under varying degrees of positive air
pressure related to airspeed, not vacuum. What you propose could in fact
pressurize the crankcase.
I am not suggesting that it can not be done
The above is not guaranteed to be 100% accurate. I would appreciate any and
all corrections and additional information.
I hope it is of some use to the list,
Jim in Kelowna
Message 41
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| Subject: | clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I don't remember seeing reference to #41 on my RV-8 plans. Where?
I've folded a few rivets during the past 5.5 years, but not because I'm
using #30 or #40 drills. My advice to avoid that is to keep everything
either parallel or perpendicular to each other -- squeezer head, rivet,
material, etc. Good results guaranteed or your money back!
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Curt Hoffman [mailto:choffman9@cinci.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:58 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
>
> Vans used to, in the old kits before prepunched holes,
> recommend all holes be drilled with a #41 drill that were
> going to be dimpled. I haven't read his instructions in the
> RV9; I just have been working from my old memory and still do
> it that way. His logic was the same as yours- makes the hole
> a little nicer after dimpling.
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
> Quick build fuselage now in basement
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
> 1974 TR6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter"
> <dcarter@datarecall.net>
> >
> > Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is
> doing its job
> > - &
> in
> > so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I
> eventually bought a
> > #41 drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next
> size smaller
> > than #40, obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when
> dimple, hole
> > is slightly enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough
> I had more
> > > problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A
> few of the
> > > skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough
> to reveal
> > > bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > > cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by
> just a hair
> > > -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and
> > > prodding. (which is also a mystery...it all fit together
> fine when
> > > drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > > (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty
> dimple you will
> > > see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure
> the outer
> > > dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally
> "clinched", like
> > > a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but
> slightly
> > > offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > > Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > > since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they
> > > tend to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an
> oops rivet
> > > leaves an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't
> clinch any
> > > more.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a
> hole that's
> > > slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
Message 42
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| Subject: | reluctant reply to: AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
OK, Sam. I certainly agree with this part.
Terry
<snip>
I sincerely hope this will put this issue to bed once and for all. These
are exciting times in our world of experimental aviation, and we will
all benefit from the revolutionary work being done in the avionics
community. I wish the best to all the players involved.
Sam Buchanan
Message 43
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| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>Dana, Michael, anyone else who is interested
>As for "honorable business practices", I am unaware of anything other than
>companies bashing each other's products or technology which I do find less
>than honorable. I think any accusation of more than that needs to be
>backed
>up by something or it becomes a close kin what it is claming another to be
>guilty of
Terry, I like Sam do truly dislike discussions in this realm but my posts
are based on first hand encounters with all three companies discussed in
this thread. I gave Greg all the leeway one could possible extend in an
effort to allow himself to state the qualities of his product. A case in
point, witnessed by two posters here,: My quote from SNF, "what is the
difference between your lite and the Dynon". Greg's reply, "We are selling
ours". This was during the time when they had absolutely no functioning
units installed, notice I said "no functioning", not "no installed" units.
In talking with the other two companies involved in this thread I can truly
say I have never heard either one of them say a single bad word extended
towards a competitor. Until Blue Mountain changes their business tactics,
it is my personnal opinion (being a CPA I have seen so many companies come
and go) they will have a hard time surviving. I hope they get it straighten
out and move forward.
I do truly hope your investment pays off and will be more than willing to
extend a hand of RV friendship.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
Message 44
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| Subject: | Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Whoa back to buildling:-)
OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll blow up
and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry breakfast at SNF on
the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the side
skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the inside
of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you actually see
this area when all is said and done?
What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy skirts,
just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer canopy skirts before
riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame and skirts or is
it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or is that a
boatload, of time already)?
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Charles Rowbotham wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
>
>All,
>
>Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we made in
>our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
>
>For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring Bob
>on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
>
>Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
>RV-8A
>
>
>
In the North East, could that be narrowed down just a bit more?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
Paul,
Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are worse
than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming you
are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an 18"
handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles together.
It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the right
pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets worse
with 1/8" rivets.
The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to keep
that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more fun
dimpling, too!
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A Fuselage
>From: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>
>Hi everyone,
> I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
>problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
>skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
>bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
>cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
>-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
>(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
>
> The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
>(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
>see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
>dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
>like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
>offset.
>
> Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
>Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
>since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
>to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
>an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul
>
>PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
>slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
>
>
MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
http://shopping.msn.com
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Linn;
They only get better. After some time you will find yourself doing most of the
movements in the cockpit without thinking and able to guess your airspeed within
5 knots without looking inside. You'll also be able to fly final at 70....or
less.
Don't be afraid to share flying stories, it's a nice break from the riveting,
avionics, or other misc. BS discussions. Seems once builders start flying none
of them want to talk about what they spent so long preparing for. I for one
would enjoy more threads discussing aerobatics, dogfighting, shooting down unsuspecting
172's (or Navy T-34C's) landing on a short grass strips or whatever.
Remember the goal, build and FLY a cool personal airplane. Now you are flying my
friend...Congrats!
RR
RV-4, 1100 hours
Still enjoy every flight, preferrably upside down...
linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters
dmedema@att.net wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net
>
>So Im sitting at my desk around 11:30 (PST) this morning thinking about
>flying. And why wouldnt I my first flight was three days ago; my computer
>background screen is a picture from my first flight; I have Vans calendar
>with Jim Erskines RV-6/7 on the wall; I have the 2003 at-a-glance page
>from last years calendar next to it with Dan Benuas RV-6A over that; I have
>my daughters watercolor of an RV-6A right in front of me.
>
>Today is a spectacular day in the Pacific Northwest. Cool, but not cold. I
>look at the weather forecast for this weekend, rain and more rain. Grumble!
>Grumble! I check the metar: calm winds, no ceiling, 10 miles of
>visibility. I look outside and all I see is sun. The sirens song gets
>louder and louder. Finally, I succumb.
>
>A quick stop to get gas in the car and it is off to the airport. On the
>road, while a bit hazy, I can still see mountains more than 50 miles away. I
>know it will be clearer in the air. Forty-five minutes later, I am opening
>the hangar. There she sits, MY AIRPLANE! Even without paint and main gear
>pants & fairings, she is a very beautiful lady to me. I pull N276DM out and
>start to pre-flight. A friend, Harley Beard, who is building a 6A just
>happens to drop by and we chat while I finish the pre-flight. My engine
>start procedure (without a priming system) is not completely figured out yet,
>but soon the engine is singing its song.
>
>Taxi, runup, announce, and then on the runway. Stick neutral, add power,
>lift the nose just off the runway, hold it there, and then we are flying!
>Climb up to 5000 (Arlington is about 140) to enhance my gliding range.
>Level off and power back to 2400 rpm. Today is a break in the engine day.
>Up here, I can see a huge hunk of the Puget Sound and freshly snowed on
>mountains almost every which way I look! I fly north up to Skagit airport
>circling it at 5000. I do some turns around the hills and check out a small
>antenna farm. While always a little nervous, after all, its a new (rebuilt)
>engine and airplane, I am content to float up here and look down on my
>surroundings. I check out the Dynon EFIS-D10: attitude looks great,
>airspeed within a couple of miles per hours compared to my ASI, altitude
>within 20-30 feet. Even in the bright sunlight with sunglasses, I can easily
>see the display. All too soon, I head back to Arlington. Going down hill to
>pattern altitude, I see 180 mph on the airspeed. There is only one other
>plane in the pattern so I easily enter the downwind. Downwind checks, now
>abeam the numbers, power back, hold the nose up to bleed off airspeed. First
>notch of manual flaps, turn base, second notch of flaps (Hmm, maybe I should
>put electric flaps in this thing!), and then the turn to final. Stabilized
>at 85, keep the number in the windshield like Mike Seager taught me. Close
>to the ground, so level off. Much better today, one of my biggest problems
>is leveling off too high above the runway. Now flare, more flare, more
>flare, touchdown! Keep the nose off the ground until the plane refuses to
>hold it up any longer. Cool, I could have made the first turnoff easily, but
>I coast on by since I need gas which is farther down the runway anyway. Off
>the runway and taxi to the pumps. Shutdown. A moment for reflection: this
>collection of metal, wire, fiberglass, etc. really is an airplane. 12 years
>and 2500 hours have resulted in me being able to fulfill my dream of flight,
>a dream I have had ever since I can remember.
>
>My first fill up: 29.14 gallons, $74.63. Yikes! Thats a bunch of money!
>But is it? Lets see, 29 gallons are about 3-1/2 hours of flight. How much
>does it cost to go to a college or professional sporting event? How about a
>concert? Yes, it is expensive, but those 3-1/2 hours of flight will give me
>more pleasure and satisfaction than a lot of other activities. Yes, I know
>there are other costs involved, but Im satisfied with my choice of leisure
>activity. Finally, its back to the hanger, clean the windscreen, and the
>drive back to work. Guess what I was thinking about during those 45 minutes!
>
>Doug Medema
>RV-6A N276DM
>
>PS I promise not to file a flight report for every flight, maybe every
>second or third! Just kidding!
>
Great post! And congratulations! I read it and by gosh, I was there!
Whew, 12 years! I am so blessed .... There's a couple of guys working
on a Wheeler Express .... 13 years .... they'll be flying by 14 ......
but my Pitts took me 3 years. Lots of all-nighters on that one. I'm
hoping the -10 will go together in 2 years. I have a friend that built
his -6 in 19 months and he had to drill all the holes!!! Don'tcha just
love incurable optimists???
Linn
---------------------------------
Message 48
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| Subject: | UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
make the UPS line. Damn!
I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
ever get to use it.
Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
of square.
The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
Paul
On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:35:03AM +0000, Jim Bower wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
>
> Paul,
>
> Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are worse
> than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming you
> are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an 18"
> handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles together.
> It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the right
> pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets worse
> with 1/8" rivets.
>
> The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to keep
> that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
>
> Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more fun
> dimpling, too!
>
> Jim Bower
> St. Louis, MO
> RV-6A Fuselage
>
>
> >From: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> >
> >Hi everyone,
> > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> >
> > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> >offset.
> >
> > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Paul
> >
> >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> >
> >
>
> MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> http://shopping.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have painted them the
outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt into a ball of
molten metal.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Whoa back to buildling:-)
>
> OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll blow
up
> and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry breakfast at SNF
on
> the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
>
> My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the side
> skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
>
> I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the inside
> of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you actually see
> this area when all is said and done?
>
> What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
skirts,
> just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
>
> Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer canopy skirts
before
> riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame and skirts or
is
> it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or is that a
> boatload, of time already)?
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> Finish kit
> Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over
>
>
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Swell...
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, SL30 and SL70 and MD200
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bobby Hester [mailto:bhester@hopkinsville.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:01 PM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
> would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time
> comes. I was
> hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60.
> I was told
> that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
> make the UPS line. Damn!
>
> I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
> ever get to use it.
>
> Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>
> Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts gray,
to match the interior...
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>
> I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
> painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
>
> Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
> into a ball of molten metal.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Whoa back to buildling:-)
> >
> > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
> > blow
> up
> > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
> breakfast at
> > SNF
> on
> > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
> >
> > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
> > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
> >
> > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
> > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
> > actually see this area when all is said and done?
> >
> > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
> skirts,
> > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
> >
> > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
> canopy skirts
> before
> > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
> and skirts
> > or
> is
> > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
> is that a
> > boatload, of time already)?
> >
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > Finish kit
> > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
Never saw the link. Would you mind sending it.
RLS
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Binzer <robinzer@seidata.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Binzer" <robinzer@seidata.com>
>
> If your trying to find the story and picture of the RV-6a that crashed in
> Ventura Co. The link given is okay. Scroll down in the County News for
Nov
> 8th. You will find the article and picture.
>
> RDB
>
>
Message 54
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|
| Subject: | DYNON-10 Flush Mounting bracket |
--> RV-List message posted by: bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
Hello Listers
Is there anyone on the list with pictures of a flush
mounted installation of a Dynon 10 Efis (In a RV-4 will be even better) so I
can get an idea of the room required and have a look of the installation.
Thank you
Bruno Dionne
rv4@videotron.ca
Do not archive
----
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kirsten Lacy" <klacy@totalaccess.net>
Try this one, Bobby.
Kirsten Stugart Lacy
http://www.staronline.com/vcs/county_news/article/0,1375,VCS_226_2413110,00
html
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
Never saw the link. Would you mind sending it.
RLS
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Binzer <robinzer@seidata.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Binzer" <robinzer@seidata.com>
>
> If your trying to find the story and picture of the RV-6a that crashed in
> Ventura Co. The link given is okay. Scroll down in the County News for
Nov
> 8th. You will find the article and picture.
>
> RDB
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
In response to an email I sent to ***GARMIN AT*** regarding the future of
CNX80/MX20/SL70(R)/SL15/SL30 (maybe), I got the following response from
***GARMIN-AT*** ...
============================================================================
============
James,
I expect to see all three systems in question supported for the forseeable
future. The CNX80 is currently the only WAAS GPS on the market that is
approved under TSO-C146a. It also has a number of other unique features
that will secure its place in the avionics marketplace. It has flight
planning capabilities that allow you to insert a victor or jet airway into a
flight plan with a single entry. It has an infrared dataport that will
allow users to do IFR flight planning with greater ease than is now
possible. Its display, although smaller than the 530, is equal in
resolution. There are other features I could list as well. In the case of
the 430 and 530, the success of those products speaks for itself, and they
will only get better with time.
The GX products will and have been discontinued along with the SL50 and SL60
but the rest of the Apollo products will continue to be produced and
supported. The discontinued products will also be supported for years to
come.
I hope this answers some of your questions, thank you for your email.
We value your business and your feedback.
============================================================================
============
Sooooooo.... according to the "source", GX Series products along with SL50
and SL60 are (or will be) discontinued (though supported). The other
products are still being offered. I suspect that they will not make a
product with the "UPS" brand anymore, but unless the GarminAT people are
outright lying to me (I suspect NOT), then they have products that they are
likely to sell as long as there are adequate buyers and there is no
conflicting product.
The CNX80, SL30/SL40, MX20 and to *some* extent the SL70 (R) are in fact
unique products. I cannot see them continuing with the SL15 for too long but
since that is basically a PSE unit, you are still "good to go" there. I am
looking at using some combination of the above.
James
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:01 PM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
> would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
> hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
> that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
> make the UPS line. Damn!
>
> I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
> ever get to use it.
>
> Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>
> Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
Message 57
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Don't know what it is but after looking at hundreds of RV's over the past
few months the ones with gray interiors just don't look finished. Take no
offense some of them were great looking interior paint jobs. But... if you
can paint gray you can paint white, blue....... Ever own a $60K plus car
where the interior metal was gray. I can't see spending 3-9K on an exterior
paint job then paint the interior with $70 bucks worth of gray. So why not
give our pride and joy the color it deserves.
LOL.. Darwin
Beautiful White interior
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
>
> -
> Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts gray,
> to match the interior...
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> Do not archive
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> >
> > I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
> > painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
> >
> > Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
> > into a ball of molten metal.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Whoa back to buildling:-)
> > >
> > > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
> > > blow
> > up
> > > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
> > breakfast at
> > > SNF
> > on
> > > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
> > >
> > > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
> > > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
> > >
> > > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
> > > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
> > > actually see this area when all is said and done?
> > >
> > > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
> > skirts,
> > > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
> > >
> > > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
> > canopy skirts
> > before
> > > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
> > and skirts
> > > or
> > is
> > > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
> > is that a
> > > boatload, of time already)?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dana Overall
> > > Richmond, KY
> > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > > Finish kit
> > > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > > do not archive
> > >
>
>
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Kunkel" <rvator@socal.rr.com>
Hi Paul,
Is the 4" yoke you are using a standard yoke or a thin nose yoke? Most 4"
thin nose yokes are only rated for a 3/32" rivet although you typically
won't see that noted anywhere. Even most standard 4" yokes are only rated
for a 1/8" rivet & will flex substantially on the longer rivets. You need to
call whomever you got the yoke from first & ask what size rivet it's rated
for before trying anything else.
With respect to the 2nd part of your message - a pneumatic squeezer is a
very friendly tool, but it's also very dumb! Once it starts to squeeze a
rivet crookedly (at an angle) there's absolutely no way to straighten it
out. Drill it out & put in another one. Continuing to squeeze a rivet with
3000 lbs. of pressure, at an angle, in thin aluminum will undoubtedly deform
not only the rivet, but also the surrounding skin as you have discovered.
If you want to final size the prepunched holes to a perfectly round, exact
size use #30 & #40 reamers instead of drill bits. Also remember that the
pilots on the dimple dies are sized #30 & #40. Not disrespecting any one
else's experience &/or practices, but those pilots are designed to fit
specific hole sizes so the rest of the dimple die can form the material
around it. They are not designed to do additional streching &/or forming
although they will if used in such a manner.
When using the pneumatic squeezer we suggest you put the cupped squeezer set
in the top of the yoke & "hang" it on the manufactured head of the rivet.
Much easier than trying to come onto the manufactured head straight with the
cupped set in the set holder while trying to balance the tool, especially in
tight or awkward places. Using the smallest yoke appropriate for the job
will also help you balance the tool.
We contribute articles monthly to the SoCal RV NewsLetter. The newsletters
can be found at:
http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/
You might want to check out the articles in the July & August newsletters.
They specifically deal with Tolerances & Pneumatic Squeezers which you are
addressing at this time.
Any other questions, pls. contact us off-list.
Blue Skies!
Fred W. Kunkel
CLEAR AIR
www.clearairtools.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>
> I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
> spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
> and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
> 4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
> of square.
>
> The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
> squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
> subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:35:03AM +0000, Jim Bower wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are
worse
> > than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming
you
> > are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an
18"
> > handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles
together.
> > It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the
right
> > pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets
worse
> > with 1/8" rivets.
> >
> > The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> > pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> > perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to
keep
> > that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> > bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
> >
> > Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more
fun
> > dimpling, too!
> >
> > Jim Bower
> > St. Louis, MO
> > RV-6A Fuselage
> >
> >
> > >From: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> > >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > >offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> > http://shopping.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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