Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:33 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Jim Sears)
2. 02:42 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Jim Sears)
3. 02:54 AM - Slimybellyosis (Jim Nolan)
4. 03:07 AM - Desoprime 7700 (Jim Nolan)
5. 03:33 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (linn walters)
6. 03:54 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Art Glaser)
7. 05:38 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (rob ray)
8. 06:01 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Larry Bowen)
9. 06:33 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Jim Sears)
10. 06:52 AM - Re: EKP-III C-MAP GPS (was GARMIN 196 Price) (P M Condon)
11. 06:52 AM - Re: Trimble (Charles Rowbotham)
12. 07:01 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (JDaniel343@aol.com)
13. 07:17 AM - Re: RV-6 crash 11/8/03 (P M Condon)
14. 07:21 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Darwin N. Barrie)
15. 07:47 AM - Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops (Craig Warner)
16. 07:52 AM - Re: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Glen Matejcek)
17. 07:52 AM - R UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( ...MAYBE NOT (James E. Clark)
18. 08:56 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Tim Bryan)
19. 09:01 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Tim Bryan)
20. 09:12 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Vince Himsl)
21. 10:05 AM - Re: R UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( ...MAYBE NOT (Pat Hatch)
22. 10:14 AM - Electrical questions (Scott Diffenbaugh)
23. 10:32 AM - Re: clinched rivets? (Paul Eastham)
24. 10:34 AM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (Duberstein, Allen)
25. 10:43 AM - Re: Alternate static sources (Ken Harrill)
26. 10:51 AM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
27. 10:58 AM - EAA Young Eagles hits a million! (Jim Sears)
28. 11:53 AM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Jim Oke)
29. 12:12 PM - Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) (Knicholas2@aol.com)
30. 02:01 PM - FloScan sensor in cabin tunnel (jacklockamy@att.net)
31. 02:06 PM - Re: AHRS vs mechanical gyros (Kevin Horton)
32. 02:20 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Dana Overall)
33. 02:27 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (GLCole5475@aol.com)
34. 02:44 PM - Fw: Re: Watsonville (Ron Patterson)
35. 03:04 PM - RV Operating Costs? (Mail Filter)
36. 03:05 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (Scott Bilinski)
37. 03:36 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (Jim Bower)
38. 03:39 PM - Re: Canopy frame painting. (rob ray)
39. 04:10 PM - Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings (rob ray)
40. 04:42 PM - Garmin 295GPS for sale (Stanley Blanton)
41. 05:05 PM - Re: GPS-less flight with the Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot (Charlie & Tupper England)
42. 06:03 PM - Re: RV Operating Costs? (Pete Waters)
43. 07:19 PM - Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( (linn walters)
44. 07:52 PM - Re: clinched rivets? (HalBenjamin@aol.com)
45. 11:00 PM - Floscan in cabin tunnel (hollandm)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
> --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
>
> In response to an email I sent to ***GARMIN AT*** regarding the future of
> CNX80/MX20/SL70(R)/SL15/SL30 (maybe), I got the following response from
> ***GARMIN-AT*** ...
>
>
============================================================================
> ============
> James,
>
> I expect to see all three systems in question supported for the forseeable
> future. The CNX80 is currently the only WAAS GPS on the market that is
> approved under TSO-C146a. It also has a number of other unique features
> that will secure its place in the avionics marketplace. It has flight
> planning capabilities that allow you to insert a victor or jet airway into
a
> flight plan with a single entry. It has an infrared dataport that will
> allow users to do IFR flight planning with greater ease than is now
> possible. Its display, although smaller than the 530, is equal in
> resolution. There are other features I could list as well. In the case
of
> the 430 and 530, the success of those products speaks for itself, and they
> will only get better with time.
>
> The GX products will and have been discontinued along with the SL50 and
SL60
> but the rest of the Apollo products will continue to be produced and
> supported. The discontinued products will also be supported for years to
> come.
>
> I hope this answers some of your questions, thank you for your email.
>
> We value your business and your feedback.
>
============================================================================
> ============
>
>
> Sooooooo.... according to the "source", GX Series products along with SL50
> and SL60 are (or will be) discontinued (though supported). The other
> products are still being offered. I suspect that they will not make a
> product with the "UPS" brand anymore, but unless the GarminAT people are
> outright lying to me (I suspect NOT), then they have products that they
are
> likely to sell as long as there are adequate buyers and there is no
> conflicting product.
>
> The CNX80, SL30/SL40, MX20 and to *some* extent the SL70 (R) are in fact
> unique products. I cannot see them continuing with the SL15 for too long
but
> since that is basically a PSE unit, you are still "good to go" there. I am
> looking at using some combination of the above.
>
>
> James
>
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:01 PM
> > To: RV-List
> > Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
> >
> > I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
> > would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
> > hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
> > that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
> > make the UPS line. Damn!
> >
> > I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
> > ever get to use it.
> >
> > Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
> >
> > Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
> >
> > --
> > Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> > Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> > RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
> would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
> hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
> that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
> make the UPS line. Damn!
>
Whoops! I sent the first reply by accident.
Remember Terra? It was a fine little group of radios that I really liked.
Their radios were geared to the homebuilder market. Nice stuff that would
have been a good choice for anyone's homebuilt. Alas, they were bought out
by a bigger company and deleted from the marketplace. What you're seeing
happening to UPSAT is only the beginning. As soon as Garmin can figure out
how UPSAT's technology works, they'll shut it down, also.
This is the second time I've had radios I like eliminated by a company I
didn't. I know many of you like Garmin; but, I'm not so fond of it and have
a UPSAT SL60 in my RV to prove it. I had planned on buying UPSAT for my
next one, as well. Now, I'm going to have to look elsewhere, I guess. I
really like the SL60 and would have bought another of those. Thank goodness
Garmin has bought out King, yet. Hey, it's just a matter of time, maybe.
Jim Sears in KY
do not archive
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
Listers,
I used to get a lot of oil on the belly of my RV4. So I installed a
air/oil separator and fed it back into my engine.
Noticed that oil appeared milky. Installed plastic catch bottle coming
from air/oil separator. Found that I'd get a pint of water and some oil in
about 15 to 20 hrs during the winter.
Threw 11 thousand dollars at the engine. Problem with oil on belly went
away. Problem with water will always present but I drain it underneath
airplane and cleanup isn't that bad.
I don't think I'd want to return to the engine what was coming out of
that breather tube much less try and burn it.
Moral of story.= ( Money will keep the belly of an airplane cleaner.)
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
Listers,
To everyone that wrote me about Desoprime. Thanks
Come to find out, Desoprime needs to have the aluminum alodined before
application. So that's out. Don't want to make this project appear to be
more work than necessary.
I went with a self etching primer, as my RV4 has. It's held up on the
RV4, there's no reason why it shouldn't on an RV7.
I expect I'll be dead and gone before there's any evidence of corrosion.
When that happens, the owner can sue me.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Bobby Hester wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
>I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
>would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
>hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
>that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
>make the UPS line. Damn!
>
Well, you should be concerned. Garmin did just that with the Terra
line. Bought it and then just stopped making it. Basically took a
great line of radios off the market. None of them a GPS which Garmin did
very well with. BUT this time Garmin has formed a new 'company' called
Garmin AT to continue to market the old UPS AT hardware. I'm not saying
that's a absolute sign that they're gonna keep building and selling the
AT stuff, but it's a different approach to the acquisition. Actually,
now that I think of it, it's probably easier to just dump a whole
'company'! Whew, what a pickle that puts us in! Now I'm starting to
get paranoid! I like the UPSAT stuff and plan on stuffing some big
bucks in my 10 panel. By then, though, things will be pretty stable, I
hope.
Linn
>
>I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
>ever get to use it.
>
>Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>
>Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: Art Glaser <airplane@megsinet.net>
I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
linn walters wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>Bobby Hester wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>>
>>I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
>>would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
>>hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
>>that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
>>make the UPS line. Damn!
>>
>>
>>
>Well, you should be concerned. Garmin did just that with the Terra
>line. Bought it and then just stopped making it. Basically took a
>great line of radios off the market. None of them a GPS which Garmin did
>very well with. BUT this time Garmin has formed a new 'company' called
>Garmin AT to continue to market the old UPS AT hardware. I'm not saying
>that's a absolute sign that they're gonna keep building and selling the
>AT stuff, but it's a different approach to the acquisition. Actually,
>now that I think of it, it's probably easier to just dump a whole
>'company'! Whew, what a pickle that puts us in! Now I'm starting to
>get paranoid! I like the UPSAT stuff and plan on stuffing some big
>bucks in my 10 panel. By then, though, things will be pretty stable, I
>hope.
>Linn
>
>
>
>>I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
>>ever get to use it.
>>
>>Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>>
>>Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Absolutely nothing is wrong with gray. Every airplane I have ever flown is gray
inside, including my RV4 and alot of very cool, very fast jets. If he wants a
pimp-mobile painted white, and can deal with all the reflections inside his canopy
on a sunny day, hey it's a free country...I have some white shag carpet
in my attic that would go real nice with it....
THANK GOD for freedom eh?
RR
Larry Bowen <Larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts gray,
to match the interior...
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie"
>
> I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
> painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
>
> Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
> into a ball of molten metal.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dana Overall"
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall"
> >
> > Whoa back to buildling:-)
> >
> > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
> > blow
> up
> > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
> breakfast at
> > SNF
> on
> > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
> >
> > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
> > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
> >
> > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
> > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
> > actually see this area when all is said and done?
> >
> > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
> skirts,
> > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
> >
> > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
> canopy skirts
> before
> > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
> and skirts
> > or
> is
> > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
> is that a
> > boatload, of time already)?
> >
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > Finish kit
> > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Understood.
I chose gray because it hides dirt, there is less reflectivity under
bright conditions, it easily covers the gray primer, and it will
compliment my military-ish exterior paint scheme. Good things. Trim
items like seat belts and my colorful personality will bring plenty of
color to the cockpit. :)
Cheers,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8, functional gray interior.
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Darwin N. Barrie said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>
> Don't know what it is but after looking at hundreds of RV's over the past
> few months the ones with gray interiors just don't look finished. Take no
> offense some of them were great looking interior paint jobs. But... if you
> can paint gray you can paint white, blue....... Ever own a $60K plus car
> where the interior metal was gray. I can't see spending 3-9K on an
> exterior
> paint job then paint the interior with $70 bucks worth of gray. So why not
> give our pride and joy the color it deserves.
>
> LOL.. Darwin
> Beautiful White interior
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>>
>> I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
>>
>> -
>> Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts gray,
>> to match the interior...
>> Larry@BowenAero.com
>> http://BowenAero.com
>> Do not archive
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
>> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>> >
>> >
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>> >
>> > I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
>> > painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
>> >
>> > Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
>> > into a ball of molten metal.
>> >
>> > Darwin N. Barrie
>> > Chandler AZ
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>> > >
>> > > Whoa back to buildling:-)
>> > >
>> > > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
>> > > blow
>> > up
>> > > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
>> > breakfast at
>> > > SNF
>> > on
>> > > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
>> > >
>> > > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
>> > > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
>> > >
>> > > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
>> > > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
>> > > actually see this area when all is said and done?
>> > >
>> > > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
>> > skirts,
>> > > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
>> > >
>> > > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
>> > canopy skirts
>> > before
>> > > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
>> > and skirts
>> > > or
>> > is
>> > > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
>> > is that a
>> > > boatload, of time already)?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dana Overall
>> > > Richmond, KY
>> > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>> > > Finish kit
>> > > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
>> > > do not archive
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
>
Trimble is correct. Now, what has happened to Trimble in recent years? I
was just looking at some websites and the ads listed in a couple of
magazines and didn't see it listed anymore. Was it yet another business
swallowed up by Garmin? If so, we can see for sure what will happen to
UPSAT.
Jim Sears in KY
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: EKP-III C-MAP GPS (was GARMIN 196 Price) |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
http://aviation.c-map.com/
Its a aviation GPS with full Jepp database and a user road/street/house
level of display should you want it. Its a small knee board sized unit.
Great factory support and available used thru E-BAY and Tropic Aero.
New mono units available thru the factory for 595$. Color units
available thru discounter Marv Golden (and many others) for 1550$.
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Check the archives - I seem to remember that Trimble stayed in business (Sat
& Marine) but discontinued the avaition products. I think Gulf Coast picked
up the remaining inventory and agreed to provide support.
Chuck
>From: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
>Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:32:33 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
> > I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
> >
>
>Trimble is correct. Now, what has happened to Trimble in recent years? I
>was just looking at some websites and the ads listed in a couple of
>magazines and didn't see it listed anymore. Was it yet another business
>swallowed up by Garmin? If so, we can see for sure what will happen to
>UPSAT.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>do not archive
>
>
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: JDaniel343@aol.com
I chose gray also. I didn't want annoying reflections off the canopy.
And yes it might get hot inside at Sun-N-Fun and Copperstate, but its going to
be a lot warmer at 10,000 ft on a January day in Wyoming or Minnesota.
John Danielson
RV-6 175 Hrs.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6 crash 11/8/03 |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Reprinted from Staronline.com
Venturan, 85, killed when
plane crashes
Experimental craft slams into
bottom of Santa Clara River
By Charles Levin,
clevin@VenturaCountyStar.com
November 8, 2003
The pilot of an experimental plane was
killed Friday when he crashed in the Santa Clara
River bottom about a mile east of the
Saticoy Bridge, authorities said.
The pilot was identified as Russ Cathaway,
85, of Ventura by the Ventura County Medical
Examiner. An autopsy will be performed to
determine the cause of death.
The single-engine,
two-seat RV-6A aircraft was registered to
Cathaway, a former
Lockheed engineer, who flew out of Santa
Paula Airport.
"I was talking to him
before he took off," said Pat Quinn, 62,
of Ventura. "We were
talking about flying because it was such
a beautiful day."
It's unclear why the
plane crashed, said Eric Nishimoto,
spokesman with the
Ventura County Sheriff's Department.
A witness called the
department around 3:20 p.m. to report
seeing the plane flying
west and very low over the river bed
when it turned back
toward Santa Paula, Nishimoto said.
The witness did not see
the crash but could see sand flying up
in the air where the
plane went down, Nishimoto said. "She
knew there was an
impact," he said.
A Ventura County
Sheriff's Department helicopter arrived at
the scene and found the
red and white aircraft upside down
with the pilot pinned
inside the cockpit, which was filled with
sand, Nishimoto said.
The pilot was dead when emergency
personnel reached him.
Officials believe the
plane went down nose first, Nishimoto
said.
Ventura County Fire
Department firefighters were called in to
pull the pilot from the
wreckage, Nishimoto said. Ventura City
firefighters also
assisted.
Officials from the
Federal Aviation Administration and
National Transportation
Safety Board were being called to
investigate the crash,
Nishimoto said.
Mike Dewey said
Cathaway was among the oldest active pilots
at the airport. Dewey
described Cathaway as a passionate
aviator, whose youthful
appearance belied his octogenarian
status.
Dewey said Cathaway had
worked at Lockheed Martin's
Skunkworks division,
famous for designing experimental
planes.
Cathaway also designed
"El Bandito," a popular racing plane,
later renamed the
"Frenzel Special," Dewey said. The plane
was originally designed for sport flying and
capable of aerobatics.
Dewey said there are about 3,500 RV-6As
flying today. "As far as experimental airplanes
go, it's the most prolific and the Cadillac
of the airplanes," Dewey said. "It's got a great
safety record."
Cathaway built the RV-6A aircraft. "He did a
fabulous, beautiful, meticulous job as you
would expect any engineer to do," Dewey
said.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Hi Larry,
This was supposed to be funny. I don't mind gray at all. Hey did you hear
the one about.........
Darwin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> Understood.
>
> I chose gray because it hides dirt, there is less reflectivity under
> bright conditions, it easily covers the gray primer, and it will
> compliment my military-ish exterior paint scheme. Good things. Trim
> items like seat belts and my colorful personality will bring plenty of
> color to the cockpit. :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen, RV-8, functional gray interior.
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
> Darwin N. Barrie said:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> >
> > Don't know what it is but after looking at hundreds of RV's over the
past
> > few months the ones with gray interiors just don't look finished. Take
no
> > offense some of them were great looking interior paint jobs. But... if
you
> > can paint gray you can paint white, blue....... Ever own a $60K plus car
> > where the interior metal was gray. I can't see spending 3-9K on an
> > exterior
> > paint job then paint the interior with $70 bucks worth of gray. So why
not
> > give our pride and joy the color it deserves.
> >
> > LOL.. Darwin
> > Beautiful White interior
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >>
> >> I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
> >>
> >> -
> >> Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts
gray,
> >> to match the interior...
> >> Larry@BowenAero.com
> >> http://BowenAero.com
> >> Do not archive
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
> >> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> >> >
> >> > I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
> >> > painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
> >> >
> >> > Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
> >> > into a ball of molten metal.
> >> >
> >> > Darwin N. Barrie
> >> > Chandler AZ
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >> > Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Whoa back to buildling:-)
> >> > >
> >> > > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
> >> > > blow
> >> > up
> >> > > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
> >> > breakfast at
> >> > > SNF
> >> > on
> >> > > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
> >> > >
> >> > > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
> >> > > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
> >> > >
> >> > > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
> >> > > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
> >> > > actually see this area when all is said and done?
> >> > >
> >> > > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear
canopy
> >> > skirts,
> >> > > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
> >> > >
> >> > > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
> >> > canopy skirts
> >> > before
> >> > > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
> >> > and skirts
> >> > > or
> >> > is
> >> > > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
> >> > is that a
> >> > > boatload, of time already)?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Dana Overall
> >> > > Richmond, KY
> >> > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> >> > > Finish kit
> >> > > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> >> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> >> > > do not archive
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Craig Warner" <cwarner@twcny.rr.com>
Where in the North east?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' workshops
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> Charles Rowbotham wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham"
<crowbotham@hotmail.com>
> >
> >All,
> >
> >Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we made
in
> >our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
> >
> >For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring
Bob
> >on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
> >
> >Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> >RV-8A
> >
> >
> >
> In the North East, could that be narrowed down just a bit more?
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi All-
Just a couple of quick data points:
1 I've decided to go with BMA, warts and all. This is at least in part
do to the constant upgrades.
2 Despite the lack of PR savvy earlier in their existence, my biggest /
main / only real problem with them so far is their inability to hit promised delivery
dates. On anything. Hopefully this will be cured with their move to
their new digs in COS.
3 I bought some engine sensors from GRT. Best bang for the buck, IMHO.
While discussing some details with one of their techs, he asked me what I was
going to hook them up to. When I told him BMA, he immediately told me that the
BMA system WOULD NOT FUNCTION WITHOUT GPS LOCK. I didn't tell him I'd already
done lots of hand held 'aerobatics' with the box without even attaching the
GPS antenna. I just asked him how I could loose the whole constellation at
once. He had no answer.
4 While researching products, I tend to ask venders very pointed questions
about their products as well as the competitions. In my experience (just one
guy) I've not heard Greg say anything bad about the competition.
Glen Matejcek
RV-8 QB, pulling wires / cuttin' holes in the panel
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 17
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| Subject: | R UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( ...MAYBE NOT |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
I think that the discontinuation process was already underway for certain
UPSAT products. And for some, understandably so, given the *new* product(s)
[e.g. CNX80].
The real question is what makes GOOD BUSINESS sense for Garmin. If you are
very paranoid, you might say just kill off all the UPSAT stuff. Well I have
another theory (based on what they have said and what I believe makes the
most business sense).
They will as they say use the engineering talent as much as possible.
They will keep products that are unique and have sales potential.
They will integrate the two sets of technologies into a FUTURE line of
products.
The integration will take at least two years (if not four).
At present they have no reason to kill the:
CNX80 ... only thing of its type currently shipping
MX20 ... they do not have such a display (it does need more horsepower
though)
... and little reason to kill the:
SL30/SL40 (great little radios ... nobody comes close)
SL70(R) ... for a while (space saver *AND* can be remotely interfaced to the
CNX80.
The SL15 demand can be redirected to PSE.
If I were them, the above is what I would keep after getting all the labels
changed :-).
I plan to purchase from that set.
Just another view on the matter.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Sears
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:33 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
> > I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
> >
>
> Trimble is correct. Now, what has happened to Trimble in recent
> years? I
> was just looking at some websites and the ads listed in a couple of
> magazines and didn't see it listed anymore. Was it yet another business
> swallowed up by Garmin? If so, we can see for sure what will happen to
> UPSAT.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
Boy that hurts. I already own a full panel of the UPS AT stuff.
SL15
MX20
GX60
SL30
SL70
Not flying quite yet. Already worth less.
don't like Microsoft either primarily because of their tactics. Don't even
begin to believe they would tell you their plans. They won't till announced
Do Not Archive!
Tim Bryan
RV6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
make the UPS line. Damn!
I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
ever get to use it.
Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
.
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
Dana,
Keep it at altitude and the heat won't be a problem. That's where they
belong anyway. As to the interior color: Mine is a Safety Blue. (couldn't
do grey) I painted the inside of the outside skirt with the outside color
and painted the inside of the inside skirt with the interior color. With
all of the lightening holes in there you can see both colors and it softens
the contrast between the inside and outside... When you see it.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 (with a -7 inside skirt brace)
N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Don't know what it is but after looking at hundreds of RV's over the past
few months the ones with gray interiors just don't look finished. Take no
offense some of them were great looking interior paint jobs. But... if you
can paint gray you can paint white, blue....... Ever own a $60K plus car
where the interior metal was gray. I can't see spending 3-9K on an exterior
paint job then paint the interior with $70 bucks worth of gray. So why not
give our pride and joy the color it deserves.
LOL.. Darwin
Beautiful White interior
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
>
> -
> Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts gray,
> to match the interior...
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> Do not archive
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> >
> > I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
> > painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
> >
> > Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
> > into a ball of molten metal.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Whoa back to buildling:-)
> > >
> > > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
> > > blow
> > up
> > > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
> > breakfast at
> > > SNF
> > on
> > > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
> > >
> > > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
> > > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
> > >
> > > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
> > > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
> > > actually see this area when all is said and done?
> > >
> > > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
> > skirts,
> > > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
> > >
> > > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
> > canopy skirts
> > before
> > > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
> > and skirts
> > > or
> > is
> > > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
> > is that a
> > > boatload, of time already)?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dana Overall
> > > Richmond, KY
> > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > > Finish kit
> > > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > > do not archive
> > >
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
Regardless of color, I noticed that when I painted the back side of the fiberglass
portion my rear seat that the rough
texture began to look like cloth. It is a curious effect but I think that if you
paint your skirt a slightly lighter or
darker color than the frame you will have this same effect with minimal investment
in time and money. I guess I am
suggesting a complementary contrast rather than a time consuming and expensive
attempt to hide the frame.
Besides, non flying observers might be reassured seeing the 'beefy' metal frame
in a sea of aluminum.
Also I am continuously amazed at what others key in on when they look inside the
cockpit...do we still call it a cockpit?
Anyway, Hope this helps,
Vince Himsl
RV8 - FB (was SB for slow built but now FB for Forever Built)
I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the inside
of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you actually see
this area when all is said and done?
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: R UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( ...MAYBE NOT |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Further to Jim's points, I think one of the reasons Garmin bought UPSAT was
to get the WAAS expertise that they were way behind in. The CNX-80 is a
WAAS certified GPS, Garmin has no such animal, not even in development, I
understand. The MX-20 is arguably the premier moving map display for GA.
Many other technologies interface to the MX-20, e.g., WSI weather talks to
it, and some of the TAWS units interface with the MX-20. I think these
units at least will be integrated into the Garmin product line and all the
other stuff they will support if only as sound business practice. I just
ordered the full up UPSAT stack with WSI wx for the RV-7. I'm not worried.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Subject: RV-List: R UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( ...MAYBE NOT
> --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
>
> I think that the discontinuation process was already underway for certain
> UPSAT products. And for some, understandably so, given the *new*
product(s)
> [e.g. CNX80].
>
> The real question is what makes GOOD BUSINESS sense for Garmin. If you are
> very paranoid, you might say just kill off all the UPSAT stuff. Well I
have
> another theory (based on what they have said and what I believe makes the
> most business sense).
>
> They will as they say use the engineering talent as much as possible.
> They will keep products that are unique and have sales potential.
> They will integrate the two sets of technologies into a FUTURE line of
> products.
> The integration will take at least two years (if not four).
>
> At present they have no reason to kill the:
> CNX80 ... only thing of its type currently shipping
> MX20 ... they do not have such a display (it does need more horsepower
> though)
>
> ... and little reason to kill the:
> SL30/SL40 (great little radios ... nobody comes close)
> SL70(R) ... for a while (space saver *AND* can be remotely interfaced to
the
> CNX80.
>
> The SL15 demand can be redirected to PSE.
>
> If I were them, the above is what I would keep after getting all the
labels
> changed :-).
>
> I plan to purchase from that set.
>
>
> Just another view on the matter.
>
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Sears
> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:33 AM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> >
> > > I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
> > >
> >
> > Trimble is correct. Now, what has happened to Trimble in recent
> > years? I
> > was just looking at some websites and the ads listed in a couple of
> > magazines and didn't see it listed anymore. Was it yet another business
> > swallowed up by Garmin? If so, we can see for sure what will happen to
> > UPSAT.
> >
> > Jim Sears in KY
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Electrical questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
RV listers with specific electrical questions may want to take note of the
following list --- it is a great resource!
I could go into a discussion of trouble analysis and mitigation
for you to relay to the RV-List . . . but I think it wiser to
suggest that the writer be urged to contact the manufacturer and/or
designer of a product that's giving him problems instead of throwing
the question out onto a group that specializes in other issues.
I'm presuming that he's having problems with an ov module he built
or purchased from me or B&C. The AeroElectric-List is just a
sign-up away on the same server as the RV-List. I used to
subscribe to a dozen list servers and have to sort through
200-300 pieces of e-mail a day looking for electrical/avionics
systems issues. It simply got to be too much effort and served
only the folks on lists I subscribed to. Please encourage folks
on the various airframe lists to ALSO participate on the
AeroElectric-List where their electrical systems issues are most
likely to be dealt with quickly and to the benefit of more
builders.
Bob . . .
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff@foothill.net
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
Thanks Fred, those articles were very informative.
I agree completely with your assessment of pneumatics as "dumb"...
I need to stop being so lazy and get out that hand squeezer more often
especially on these tricky rivets.
Regards,
Paul
PS: I was referring to 3/32 rivets and have tried shorter yokes so
yoke flex probably wasn't the main problem. I think it's operator
error and slightly misaligned holes, then leading to sloped dimples
after the first failed squeeze.
On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:02:20PM -0800, Fred Kunkel wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Kunkel" <rvator@socal.rr.com>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Is the 4" yoke you are using a standard yoke or a thin nose yoke? Most 4"
> thin nose yokes are only rated for a 3/32" rivet although you typically
> won't see that noted anywhere. Even most standard 4" yokes are only rated
> for a 1/8" rivet & will flex substantially on the longer rivets. You need to
> call whomever you got the yoke from first & ask what size rivet it's rated
> for before trying anything else.
>
> With respect to the 2nd part of your message - a pneumatic squeezer is a
> very friendly tool, but it's also very dumb! Once it starts to squeeze a
> rivet crookedly (at an angle) there's absolutely no way to straighten it
> out. Drill it out & put in another one. Continuing to squeeze a rivet with
> 3000 lbs. of pressure, at an angle, in thin aluminum will undoubtedly deform
> not only the rivet, but also the surrounding skin as you have discovered.
>
> If you want to final size the prepunched holes to a perfectly round, exact
> size use #30 & #40 reamers instead of drill bits. Also remember that the
> pilots on the dimple dies are sized #30 & #40. Not disrespecting any one
> else's experience &/or practices, but those pilots are designed to fit
> specific hole sizes so the rest of the dimple die can form the material
> around it. They are not designed to do additional streching &/or forming
> although they will if used in such a manner.
>
> When using the pneumatic squeezer we suggest you put the cupped squeezer set
> in the top of the yoke & "hang" it on the manufactured head of the rivet.
> Much easier than trying to come onto the manufactured head straight with the
> cupped set in the set holder while trying to balance the tool, especially in
> tight or awkward places. Using the smallest yoke appropriate for the job
> will also help you balance the tool.
>
> We contribute articles monthly to the SoCal RV NewsLetter. The newsletters
> can be found at:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/
>
> You might want to check out the articles in the July & August newsletters.
> They specifically deal with Tolerances & Pneumatic Squeezers which you are
> addressing at this time.
>
> Any other questions, pls. contact us off-list.
>
> Blue Skies!
>
> Fred W. Kunkel
> CLEAR AIR
> www.clearairtools.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> >
> > I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
> > spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
> > and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
> > 4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
> > of square.
> >
> > The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
> > squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
> > subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:35:03AM +0000, Jim Bower wrote:
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are
> worse
> > > than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming
> you
> > > are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an
> 18"
> > > handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles
> together.
> > > It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the
> right
> > > pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets
> worse
> > > with 1/8" rivets.
> > >
> > > The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> > > pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> > > perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to
> keep
> > > that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> > > bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
> > >
> > > Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more
> fun
> > > dimpling, too!
> > >
> > > Jim Bower
> > > St. Louis, MO
> > > RV-6A Fuselage
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> > > >
> > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > > >
> > > >Hi everyone,
> > > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > > >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > > >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > > >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > > >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > > >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > > >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > > >
> > > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > > >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > > >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > > >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > > >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > > >offset.
> > > >
> > > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > > >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > > >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > > >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > > >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > > >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > > >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> > > http://shopping.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Duberstein, Allen" <allen.duberstein@intel.com>
Anyone know if Garmin will support experimental installations? They did
not want to get involved with their original product line....
allen
Allen Duberstein
ODC Processor Architecture
503-712-2323
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Subject: Re: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
Boy that hurts. I already own a full panel of the UPS AT stuff.
SL15
MX20
GX60
SL30
SL70
Not flying quite yet. Already worth less.
don't like Microsoft either primarily because of their tactics. Don't
even
begin to believe they would tell you their plans. They won't till
announced
Do Not Archive!
Tim Bryan
RV6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
make the UPS line. Damn!
I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
ever get to use it.
Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
.
=
==
==
==
==
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Harrill <KHarrill@osa.state.sc.us>
My solution was to install a "T" in the VSI static port. One leg goes to
the static line. The other I pointed down and put a cap on it. If needed,
I can easily reach under the panel and unscrew the cap for alternate static
air.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 285 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing [mailto:azpilot@extremezone.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate static sources
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
I guess it comes down to $$. How much is a VSI? Probably more than $200.
I'd opt for the static option in the pitot. Or, you can save the money now,
and then roll the dice. Personally, I would roll the dice. In a pinch, you
could break the glass, but it is not likely that you will ice over both
static ports unless you really plan on flying some hard IFR, in my opinion.
Don't want to start a debate on IFR flight, but I think too much redunancy
is overkill. We train for things to fail, so deal with what you have, and
maintain an adequate balance of how much redunancy you really need. Bob
Knuckolls book describes this in detail with his electrical system. Design
it right, build it right, and put in minimal backup, and you shouldn't have
Murphy come visit you.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternate static sources
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
>
>
> A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to
> use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip
error).
> My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement
to
> have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm
> thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are
> the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at the same time
since
> if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone?
> I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between with and without static
in
> the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break the
> VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
>
> Doug Fischer
> 90706
>
> I'm planning on putting a tee in the line in the cabin and installing an
> accessible fuel drain valve that can be locked in the open position.
SAF-AIR
> pn. 1250 would fit the bill.
>
>
> Stan Blanton
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Thanks to all who chimed in on this- and yes, I know it's PCV- that's what I
get for posting at 1:00 a.m.- I correct folks on that one myself! Soooooo- I
will get a separator. Wick's has one for $40 and another for $60. Anybody
recommend either of these, or suggest a good one?
Following is just more discussion about PCV- delete now if uninterested!
I especially want to thank Jim for his detailed explanation, but am confused
about the reference to the gases venting to the intake manifold through some
kind of a metering valve. So I went on a field trip to the driveway. I find
that on my '88 Chevy pickup that the vent goes from the valve cover to the PCV
valve located on the air cleaner can, just inside of the round pleated paper
filter and therefore upstream of the throttle plate and exposed to slightly
less that atmospheric pressure due to losses from the intake ducting and air
filter. But this still places the crankcase gasses at a higher pressure. I had
always been under the impression (erroneously, perhaps) that the valve itself
was merely a check valve to prevent gasses from flowing back into the crankcase,
possibly from a backfire? Anyway, this is what I was considering for my
O-320.
Next I investigated my '96 Chevy pickup (hey, it's Tennessee, OK?! I had a
Beemer when I lived in Atlanta!) and found it has TWO hoses from the valve
covers, one on each side. One of them is a simple tube, maybe 5/8", that simply
routes to the plastic box on top of the throttle body with no valve whatsoever,
unless it's buried in the valve cover somehow. The other one does route to
some kind of device attached to the intake manifold. Perhaps this is the
metering device Jim refers to, but for what purpose and why in combination with
the
other vent, is unknown to me.
The reference someone else made to the large volume of oil in the blow-by of
air-cooled engines is possibly a good reason not to do this as I would imagine
some oil would condense in the breather hose and run down into the air box
after shutdown.
Thanks for the discussion- you folks paid your list-dues yet?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | EAA Young Eagles hits a million! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
I know some of you were interested. It was reported today that we have
finally hit the magic one million Young Eagles mark. Having been a part of
that, I'm feeling very proud, right now. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
do not archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Gray is almost the universal colour for most "professional" cockpits from
fighters to airline big-iron. One assumes that the people who make and sell
the really big $$ aircraft know what they are doing. This is the sort of
ambiance that most RV-builders seem to aspire to so no surprise about the
number of grey cockpit interiors out there in RV-land.
Some of the more recent Boeing cockpits use an overall tan colour scheme
with different shades of tan depending on location (panel, seats, console,
etc.). I have read that the shrinks found overall earth tones to be more
restful on the eyes for long duration flights instead of grey.
Wood-grain mac-tac is always an option for those so inclined! :-)
Jim Oke
RV-6A C-GKGZ (gray interior)
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
>
> Dana,
>
> Keep it at altitude and the heat won't be a problem. That's where they
> belong anyway. As to the interior color: Mine is a Safety Blue.
(couldn't
> do grey) I painted the inside of the outside skirt with the outside color
> and painted the inside of the inside skirt with the interior color. With
> all of the lightening holes in there you can see both colors and it
softens
> the contrast between the inside and outside... When you see it.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 (with a -7 inside skirt brace)
> N616TB
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 23:36:17
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>
> Don't know what it is but after looking at hundreds of RV's over the past
> few months the ones with gray interiors just don't look finished. Take no
> offense some of them were great looking interior paint jobs. But... if you
> can paint gray you can paint white, blue....... Ever own a $60K plus car
> where the interior metal was gray. I can't see spending 3-9K on an
exterior
> paint job then paint the interior with $70 bucks worth of gray. So why not
> give our pride and joy the color it deserves.
>
> LOL.. Darwin
> Beautiful White interior
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > I resemble that! (what's wrong with gray?)
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish, recently painted inside of canopy skirts gray,
> > to match the interior...
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> > Do not archive
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Darwin N. Barrie [mailto:ktlkrn@cox.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
> > >
> > > I painted mine the interior color, but prolly should have
> > > painted them the outside color. At least they aren't gray!!
> > >
> > > Bring that thing to AZ next summer so we can watch it melt
> > > into a ball of molten metal.
> > >
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV-List: Canopy frame painting.
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Whoa back to buildling:-)
> > > >
> > > > OK, I think everyone knows I am painting by 7 black. I know, I'tll
> > > > blow
> > > up
> > > > and look like the Airbus at Oshkosh, I'll be able to fry
> > > breakfast at
> > > > SNF
> > > on
> > > > the wings and my shoes will melt climbing aboard but so be it.
> > > >
> > > > My canopy frame is now painted black but I'd like some input on the
> > > > side skirts. Most will think it's anal but here goes.
> > > >
> > > > I want to avoid being able to "look through" the canopy and see the
> > > > inside of the outer canopy skirt and inside canopy skirt. Can you
> > > > actually see this area when all is said and done?
> > > >
> > > > What did everyone else do on the outside of the side and rear canopy
> > > skirts,
> > > > just mask at the canopy and fire away with the HVLP??
> > > >
> > > > Did anyone else paint the inside of the inner and outer
> > > canopy skirts
> > > before
> > > > riveting these together and bolting the canopy to the frame
> > > and skirts
> > > > or
> > > is
> > > > it a waste of effort (like I haven't wasted a sh$tload, or
> > > is that a
> > > > boatload, of time already)?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dana Overall
> > > > Richmond, KY
> > > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > > > Finish kit
> > > > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> > > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > > > do not archive
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2@aol.com
Doug,
My plane sits just a few miles south of you in Puyallup awaiting a prop and
bolting on the wings. Otherwise she is ready. In (hopefully) a few months I
can join you in the cafe on your field and toast one another's planes.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Kim Nicholas
RV9A - gettin' there......
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | FloScan sensor in cabin tunnel |
--> RV-List message posted by: jacklockamy@att.net
I'd like to install my fuel flow sensor (FloScan from Grand Rapids w/EIS-
4000) in the cabin tunnel running from the sparbox to the firewall (RV-7A).
I would install an in-line fuel filter just after the Van's fuel selector
valve, then the FloScan, inline up to the facet electric fuel pump mounted
inside the cabin on the firewall. Nice straight run, easy to maintain/access
and not located on the forward side of the firewall (heat).
Has anyone else tried this AND been successful? My only concern is when I
read that the 'wires' on the sensor must be mounted "UP" and with this tunnel
installation the wires would be horizontal.
Spoke with GRT this afternoon and they said the location and installation
sounded great but were unsure whether or not the having the sensor mounted
horizontal would cause bubbles to be created in the sensor thus causing a
possible flucuation/error in the fuel flow readings.
Comments and ideas welcomed.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A QB
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> 3 I bought some engine sensors from GRT. Best bang for the
>buck, IMHO. While discussing some details with one of their techs,
>he asked me what I was going to hook them up to. When I told him
>BMA, he immediately told me that the BMA system WOULD NOT FUNCTION
>WITHOUT GPS LOCK. I didn't tell him I'd already done lots of hand
>held 'aerobatics' with the box without even attaching the GPS
>antenna. I just asked him how I could loose the whole constellation
>at once. He had no answer.
There are several ways to lose the GPS signal due to a single failure
- problem with the antenna, problem with the coax from the antenna,
lose of power to the GPS unit, interference with the GPS signal from
an on-board source, interference with the GPS signal from an external
source, etc. I have been flying with GPS during flight tests and
operational since 1994, and I have seen many cases where the GPS
capability has been lost for short periods. So, I think you need to
be sure that whatever avionics and procedures are used allow for a
continued safe flight and landing without a GPS signal.
It is quite possible that the BMA EFIS systems would still be useable
in a degraded mode without a GPS input, but it would be wise to check
this out via a flight test.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
.). I have read that the shrinks found overall earth tones to be more
>restful on the eyes for long duration flights instead of grey.
How 'bout gold is that earth tone enough. If it isn't I guess I'll just
have to wear "earth shoes" (remember those).
Thanks for all the replies. It is obvious you can see the inside of the
outer and inner side skins through the canopy. Black it is!!
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: GLCole5475@aol.com
It seems to me that all those airliners with gray interiors also have a rather
solid ceiling to block out the sunlight, unlike our clear canopies.
Gary
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Watsonville |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Note: forwarded message attached.
From: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Watsonville
--0-1554119745-1068762801=:44468
Hi Mickey,
I think if you can learn from a book, (I don't do that so well...more of a visual
learner) then I think you will be fine. The bottom line is...no circut breakers,
no avionics master switch necessary, use fuse blocks (2 or 3) for main bus,
essential buss and possibly battery buss. Use a central grounding block under
the panel with push on connectors.
He talks about not preventing failure but being "failure tolerant", ie: if the
main bus goes down, you have the essential bus to fly on to destination (or until
you can safely land). repairs are done on the ground, not toubleshot in the
air.
I'm sure if Bob were to summarize his ideas for you he could do much better than
me. Indeed, get the book! many of his ideas are there.
Mickey Coggins <mick@rv8.ch> wrote:
Hi Ron,
Did you learn things that are not in the book?
I'm wondering if it is worth flying to the session
in Ft. Worth from Switzerland. If it is just a
matter of me buckling down and really carefully
reading the book, that would be a better use of
my time, I believe.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
GSM: +41-79-210-3762
FAX: +41-86-079-210-3762
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007
Empennage complete, waiting for wings to arrive
--0-1554119745-1068762801=:44468
Hi Mickey,
I think if you can learn from a book, (I don't do that so well...more of a visual
learner) then I think you will be fine. The bottom line is...no circut breakers,
no avionics master switch necessary, use fuse blocks (2 or 3) for main bus,
essential buss and possibly <EM>battery buss.</EM> Use a central grounding
block under the panel with push on connectors.
He talks about not preventing failure but being "failure tolerant", ie: if the
main bus goes down, you have the essential bus to fly on to destination (or until
you can safely land). repairs are done on the ground, not toubleshot in the
air.
I'm sure if Bob were to summarize his ideas for you he could do much better than
me. Indeed, get the book! many of his ideas are there.
Mickey Coggins mick@rv8.ch wrote:
Hi Ron,
Did you learn things that are not in the book?
I'm wondering if it is worth flying to the session
in Ft. Worth from Switzerland. If it is just a
matter of me buckling down and really carefully
reading the book, that would be a better use of
my time, I believe.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
GSM: +41-79-210-3762
FAX: +41-86-079-210-3762
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007
Empennage complete, waiting for wings to arrive
--0-1554119745-1068762801=:44468--
Message 35
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| Subject: | RV Operating Costs? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mail Filter" <mailfilter@bellsouth.net>
I am looking to purchase a flying RV for the purpose of time building. I figure
that if I am going to spend 1,000 hrs in a plane, I might as well enjoy it.
Since I am looking to put a great deal of hours on a plane in short period of
time, operating costs is prime concern. If anyone can give me an idea what
their hourly and fixed costs are I would greatly appreciate it. I know this
will vary greatly among individuals, but it will give me some method of
comparing the RV purchase to other alternatives. I am also curious as to what
others are paying for insurance and annuals (if you pay for annuals).
Thanks,
Chad VonHoven
e-mail: mailfilter@bellsouth.net
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I painted the inside of my plane the same color grey as the powder coating
and dont notice any reflections...............Then of course I only have
1.4 hours on the plane and am so darned excited that I probably dont notice.
>It seems to me that all those airliners with gray interiors also have a
>rather solid ceiling to block out the sunlight, unlike our clear canopies.
>
>Gary
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
Yeah, that 4" yoke weighs a TON! I have a 2.5" yoke as well, and it will
fit in most of the places you need. You will really enjoy the pneumo
squeezer once you are working in the confines of the fuselage!!! Happy
riveting!
Jim
>From: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:12:27 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>
>I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
>spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
>and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
>4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
>of square.
>
>The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
>squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
>subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
>
>Paul
>
>On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:35:03AM +0000, Jim Bower wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are
>worse
> > than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming
>you
> > are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an
>18"
> > handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles
>together.
> > It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the
>right
> > pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets
>worse
> > with 1/8" rivets.
> >
> > The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> > pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> > perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to
>keep
> > that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> > bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
> >
> > Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more
>fun
> > dimpling, too!
> >
> > Jim Bower
> > St. Louis, MO
> > RV-6A Fuselage
> >
> >
> > >From: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> > >
> > >--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > >offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> > http://shopping.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
The F16 has a gray interior but a great air conditioner to offset the heat. With
the hot Bama sun over my RV4, I just climb until the outside air is tolerable
(75 or less) and it doesn't matter what color it is.
RR
GLCole5475@aol.com wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: GLCole5475@aol.com
It seems to me that all those airliners with gray interiors also have a rather
solid ceiling to block out the sunlight, unlike our clear canopies.
Gary
---------------------------------
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Mark;
I bought the " shame on you" for a slimy belly separator two years ago and have
no complaints. I have also had a report on the Van's separator from a friend.
It's built by some RV guys and works well. It's also cheaper than mine($157).
I had the Aircraft Spuce cheapie(the one for experimentals only) on a tailwind
which works too but is alot bigger. On the new one I welded a nipple on one
of my oil return lines and attached it to the exit nipple on the separator with
a rubber line. Works fine and yes, the belly stays way clean.
RR
Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Thanks to all who chimed in on this- and yes, I know it's PCV- that's what I
get for posting at 1:00 a.m.- I correct folks on that one myself! Soooooo- I
will get a separator. Wick's has one for $40 and another for $60. Anybody
recommend either of these, or suggest a good one?
Following is just more discussion about PCV- delete now if uninterested!
I especially want to thank Jim for his detailed explanation, but am confused
about the reference to the gases venting to the intake manifold through some
kind of a metering valve. So I went on a field trip to the driveway. I find
that on my '88 Chevy pickup that the vent goes from the valve cover to the PCV
valve located on the air cleaner can, just inside of the round pleated paper
filter and therefore upstream of the throttle plate and exposed to slightly
less that atmospheric pressure due to losses from the intake ducting and air
filter. But this still places the crankcase gasses at a higher pressure. I had
always been under the impression (erroneously, perhaps) that the valve itself
was merely a check valve to prevent gasses from flowing back into the crankcase,
possibly from a backfire? Anyway, this is what I was considering for my
O-320.
Next I investigated my '96 Chevy pickup (hey, it's Tennessee, OK?! I had a
Beemer when I lived in Atlanta!) and found it has TWO hoses from the valve
covers, one on each side. One of them is a simple tube, maybe 5/8", that simply
routes to the plastic box on top of the throttle body with no valve whatsoever,
unless it's buried in the valve cover somehow. The other one does route to
some kind of device attached to the intake manifold. Perhaps this is the
metering device Jim refers to, but for what purpose and why in combination with
the
other vent, is unknown to me.
The reference someone else made to the large volume of oil in the blow-by of
air-cooled engines is possibly a good reason not to do this as I would imagine
some oil would condense in the breather hose and run down into the air box
after shutdown.
Thanks for the discussion- you folks paid your list-dues yet?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
---------------------------------
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Garmin 295GPS for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
I'm posting this for a friend.
Stan Blanton
For Sale:
Garmin 295 GPS
Includes memory card, streetmap database, topo database.
$900
Please contact:
Rick Lies
rliles@indmolding.com
Wk. 806-474-1013 (Wk.) CST
Fax 806-474-1168
if interested.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: GPS-less flight with the Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>
>
>
>>Charlie & Tupper England wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a question based on what I read on their web site. Have either
>>>of you disabled your GPS feed to the a/p to check its reaction? The
>>>web site seems to indicate that there is no backup for loss of heading
>>>info from the GPS.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>After Charlie's "challenge" < :-) > I made a flight this evening for
>the purpose of flying the EZ-Pilot without GPS to see how it would react
>to loss of reference data.
>
>After getting the plane established on heading and altitude in light
>turbulence with the EZ-Pilot engaged, I turned off the Lowrance Airmap
>100 and watched as the EZ-Pilot display indicated "No GPS". For two
>minutes the flight continued as before except for a drift of about five
>degrees in heading. I could not feel a difference in the way the
>auto-pilot, now wing leveler, kept the wings level, even in the light chop.
>
>I then rolled the plane 45 degrees left followed by a 45 degree roll to
>the right. While the plane was in the right bank I released the stick
>and the plane rolled back left, then a few degrees left of center, then
>back to wings level.
>
>Next was a 180 degree standard rate turn to the right. As I neared the
>end of the maneuver, I released the stick with the plane still banked to
>the right; the plane rolled a few degrees past center then settled back
>into wings level.
>
>This is getting interesting! Next came a 45 degree bank to the left for
>90 degrees of yaw followed by a similar turn back to the right. While
>the plane was in the 45 degree right bank, I released the stick, the
>plane recovered, but the brutality was beginning to take its toll on the
>solid-state gyro. This time the wings stayed tilted about five degrees
>to the left and the plane began a very slow, one degree/sec yaw to the left.
>
>I banked the plane a few more times and the gyro finally began to get a
>little "drunk"; it would no longer return absolutely to wings level and
>the plane was now doing very shallow turns instead of flying straight. I
>could have used the trim switch to straighten out the flight path if
>desired, but that was not the point of this test.
>
>However, at this point, the EZ-Pilot had been flying the plane for over
>twelve minutes and had endured many abrupt maneuvers; even though the
>system could no longer fly the plane straight without retrimming, it
>still had no difficulty keeping the plane upright. Maximum "lean" angles
>I saw even with the gyro saturated was less than ten degrees.
>
>It could be that if the test had continued for an extended period of
>time with more maneuvers, the system would have finally lost its sense
>of balance. But I was very impressed at how long the EZ-Pilot can keep
>the plane upright even though it has no reference to gravity or heading.
>
>If a momentary glitch occurred in the EZ-Pilot GPS data stream, the
>pilot would never even notice it. And if GPS goes down for an extended
>period of time, the EZ-Pilot gyro will give the pilot plenty of time to
>get his hands out of his pockets, the coffee mug back in the cupholder,
>the CD out of the player, so he can reset the trim and continue the
>flight, all without causing any alarm or stress.
>
>I continue to be impressed at the solidity of this system.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>http://thervjournal.com
>
Thanks, Sam.
Their web site seems to hint that it will slowly get lost without GPS
info. It's good to know that it will still keep the wings level without
external assistance.
Charlie
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: RV Operating Costs? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
Chad,
For my RV-4 with an O-360A1A (carburated, one Elec Ign, one magneto, fixed pitch):
- Roughly 8 Gal / hour for gas. Compute fuel cost based on your local price.
- About 1 quart of oil every five hours. Cost negligible.
- Loan: ~400/month for 15 years on $45K financed price. Getting financing can be tricky, since the majority of lenders who finance airplanes won't touch homebuilts. When I was initially looking last year, NAFCO was about the only show in town. I actually got a lead on a small-town bank in Iowa, First National Bank Midwest (1-888-559-8892, www.fnbmidwest.com), that was run / owned by a couple of pilots who were starting to think that this situation might be an unfilled market niche. I.e. they were thinking of expanding their aircraft-loan policies to include homebuilts if the right case came along. After I talk to them (specifically, to one of the bank officers named, honest, Ed Sullivan), they thought about it decided that I had the right combination of flight experience (and associated low insurance risk) and financial situation like debt-to-income ratio. So, I got the first loan they ever gave on an experimental aircraft. It helped that I was buying an RV, where the
numbers-in-service and safety record exceed some certificated aircraft. Note,
though, that their website currently says, no hombuilts, os either they changed
their policy or their website is out-of-date. But, they haven't called in
my loan, so go figure. You lose nothing by asking. (BTW, my debt-to-income ratio
has changed considerably.)
- Insurance: ~ 1400 / year, via SkySmith Brokerage. Cheaper overall if you pay
all in one payment, although you can pay in monthly installments for a surcharge.
Cost is based on flight experience / hours, ratings held, and, if applicable,
tailwheel time. Your lender will insist that you have hull insurance
on the airplane so they can recoup some of the loan if it gets wrecked. If you
can buy the plane outright and don't have a lender insisting that you get hull
insurance, you can carry just liability for a lot less. I wouldn't do it,
but that's just me.
- Hangar: totally dependent on where you live. I'm in a small desert town and
my tiny $135/month hangar is the cheapest I know of anywhere. You can drive
the hangar price down by sharing with somebody. You can eliminate it entirely
by tying the airplane down outside, but that might hurt the resale value and
the increased insurance rates will offset at least some of the savings. Also,
every time you hear news of a thunderstorm hitting the airport your nerves will
jangle and you'll end up driving out there to check on your baby, I mean, your
investment. Most important: many airports have hangar waiting lists lasting
YEARS. Get on your airport's waiting list NOW if your airport is one of those,
even if you haven't selected the airplane yet. This costs nothing and you
can always cancel later.
Maintenance: during the pre-purchase inspection, I had some knowledgeable folks
look over the airplane as best they could, but few, if any, sellers will let
a potential buyer really rip an airplane open prior to the check clearing.
So, right after buying, I had an A&P do a full, certified-airplane style annual
inspection on the airplane and strip it down to parade rest, so I could really
get a look inside the guts of it. It turned out to need $700 worth of exhaust
rework, a new starter, some new wiring, and some other stuff. All in all,
with labor, this cost about $3000. I beleive (hope) that this was a "bow wave"
of maintenance that corrected some stuff that probably should have been corrected
by the previous owners. We'll see at the next annual if this is true.
Routine maintenance: do the oil changes yourself (and send the oil samples out
for metal analysis) ever 25 hours. You'll need an altimeter / transponder
and ELT check every two years (probably about $250 total)..
The nice thing about homebuilts is, you can do the work yourself if you have
the time, skill, and confidence to do so. Since you're not the builder, you have
to get an A&P to do the yearly condition inspection, but if you go nuts and
decide that you want to change the engine or wings yourself, you're legally
allowed to do it as long as you file paperwork with the FAA afterward. Not that
this is smart, but stupidity, while often fatal, is not always illegal.
Three final points: one, if you haven't already, buy at least one book or video on how to buy an airplane. There are numerous samples of both. I read "Airplane Ownership" by Ron Wanttaja, available through Amazon, which covered not just the purchase of the plane, but also owenership issues for the first year; and the video, "Airplane Buying Advice from the Experts", available at http://www.aeroprice.com/store/video.htm. These aren't the only ones available, but I liked them.
Two, AOPA has a Airplane Buyer's package that they will send to you free if you're
a member. Just call and ask for it. If you're not a member of AOPA for
some unfathomable reason, the cost of a year's membership is offset by the value
of this packet alone.
Third, if at all possible, buy your RV from the builder! I bought an RV-4 that
was built in 1988. I'm the fourth owner. The guy I bought it from (third
owner) was an airline pilot who commuted in it for about two years. The previous
owners (second owners) had it for about ten. The builder (first owner) I
haven't been able to track down; I believe he may be deceased (hopefully not
in an airplane crash). The plane came with complete logbooks but little else
-- no builder's log, no wiring diagrams, no parts list, no operating manual.
My instincts told me it was a solid airplane and that's been borne out over the
last year of flying it, but I'm having to do a lot of reverse engineering to
figure out, down to the part and serial-number level, what exactly is IN this
thing, because when something needs to be replaced I can't just open a manual
or have an FBO mechanic look in the Cessna or Piper parts list. I gather that
the homebuilding community has gotten better on doc
umenting
the construction of their airplanes than my airplane's builder did in 1988, so
try to buy an RV with detailed records, i.e. a builder's log, construction photographs,
part's list, etc. These documents should be included in the purchase
price of the airplane, just like the standard logbooks, Ideally, if you buy
an RV, buy it from the folks who built it, and ask them if you can keep their
phone number handy after the sale when you have a question.
One really final point... you say you just want an airplane to build time in.
I interpret this to mean, go to the airport, jump in it, fly, land, go home.
There's nothing wrong with this philosophy, but most homebuilders I've met don't
have it. Because each airplane is unique, you have to really get familiar
with it. You have to know it and understand it because if you don't, no one
else does. In this respect, it's actually more like a horse, with a unique personality,
than a motorcycle off an assembly line. I'm not trying to get all
metaphysical here but that's my best comparison. If you can find a well-built
RV that's as well-documented as a production airplane, or can call the builder
whenever you have a question, this might not be true, but, for all their flaws,
the standardization of certificated airplanes does give them better "show
up and drive" capability than that found in some unique homebuilts. Factory
airplanes have an "information infrastructure" that i
s
maintained by the company. We rarely think much about this infrastructure --
we've always taken it for granted because it was always there. Homebuilts, like
all machines, need this kind of information infrastructure too, but for the
homebuilt it must be maintained by YOU. This takes effort. Factor it into your
decision of whether to buy a homebuilt or a factory plane for your timebuilding
mission.
And, one really, truly, honest-to-gosh final point... caveat emptor. There are
some great homebuilts out there, but there's also some scary junk. Join an
EAA Chapter if you haven't already, hook up with the local EAA Tech Advisor,
preferably one who's built an RV, and have him do the pre-purchase inspection
on your candidate RV. A local A&P who does Cessnas and Pipers won't know what
to look for. This Tech Counselor could also do the pre-purchase test flight,
since he or she will know the differences between a good and not-so-good RV and
you might not. Fly in the back seat or right seat with him by all means, but
get somebody who's looked at a LOT of RVs to help you. If it costs you 500
bucks it's money well spent.
This answer is probably a lot more than you expected (or maybe wanted), but I
spent a lot of effort in 2001 learning a lot of this with little guidance.
Just trying to pass along what I learned. If you want hear me ramble on more,
email me off-list and I'll forward my phone number.
Pedro
RV-4 S/N 967
N562PW
~ 840 hours (~ 70 of them flown by me)
Mail Filter <mailfilter@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mail Filter"
I am looking to purchase a flying RV for the purpose of time building. I figure
that if I am going to spend 1,000 hrs in a plane, I might as well enjoy it.
Since I am looking to put a great deal of hours on a plane in short period of
time, operating costs is prime concern. If anyone can give me an idea what
their hourly and fixed costs are I would greatly appreciate it. I know this
will vary greatly among individuals, but it will give me some method of
comparing the RV purchase to other alternatives. I am also curious as to what
others are paying for insurance and annuals (if you pay for annuals).
Thanks,
Chad VonHoven
e-mail: mailfilter@bellsouth.net
---------------------------------
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Art Glaser wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Art Glaser <airplane@megsinet.net>
>
>I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
>
Yeah, I do think you're right. Must have been a late night!
Linn
>
>linn walters wrote:
>
>
>Well, you should be concerned. Garmin did just that with the Terra
>line.
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: HalBenjamin@aol.com
In a message dated 11/12/2003 11:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eastham@netapp.com writes:
> I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
> spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
> and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
> 4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
> of square.
>
Paul,
I have and use both hand & pneumatic squeezers. The one thing I've found
helpful when using squeezers is to break the operation into two parts.
With the hand squeezer I hold the riveter head in place & start the rivet by
squeezing with one hand first. That squeezes it just enough so that it
doesn't tip. Then I finish the squeeze with both hands on the handles.
With the pneumatic squeezer I hold the riveter head in place with one hand
and move the lever slowly just enough to hold the rivet in place and then finish
with full power if every thing feels right.
Practice on some scraps.....I used Ruthie's cookie pans. Hmmmm....Maybe
that's why she's my ex-wife. Rivets look good though!
Hope this helps.
Hal Benjamin
RV-4, Long Island, NY
Fuselage
Message 45
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| Subject: | Floscan in cabin tunnel |
--> RV-List message posted by: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
I'm build a 9A and considered putting a flowscan sensor and airflow performance
filter in the floor tunnel between the fuel selector and facet pump.
But you can't do this without modifying the tunnel cover since both the filter
and flowscan are too large to fit under the stock tunnel. This will raise your
floor and lead to a problem if you ever decide to level the cabin floor and
install carpeting.
I opted to put the flow scan between the facet pump and bulkhead fitting to the
gascolator. Not an ideal location but still on the cold side of the firewall.
No plans for further fuel filtering at the moment.
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