Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:52 AM - Food Fight Watson Reply (Jim Nolan)
2. 03:05 AM - Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly aft (Howard Crawford)
3. 03:32 AM - Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you flame me (Dana Overall)
4. 03:43 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (Jim Sears)
5. 03:51 AM - Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly aft er you flame me (Jim Sears)
6. 04:42 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
7. 05:11 AM - Traveling (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
8. 05:15 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (James E. Clark)
9. 05:20 AM - PIREP first flight (MSices)
10. 05:22 AM - RV Formation Clinic, Jan. 16-18 in Lakeland Florida (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
11. 05:32 AM - Re: Lycoming model codes (Doug Rozendaal)
12. 05:46 AM - The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. (Steven Eberhart)
13. 06:11 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (Brian Denk)
14. 06:11 AM - Re: (snip) you flame me (linn walters)
15. 06:14 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
16. 06:28 AM - Re: Remote control winch? (flmike)
17. 06:46 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (Charles Rowbotham)
18. 06:50 AM - Re: Stupid questions and archives and do not archive (Charles Rowbotham)
19. 07:15 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (C. Rabaut)
20. 07:35 AM - 4130 parts showing rust through primer (Phil N)
21. 07:56 AM - Re: now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE (Bill Schlatterer)
22. 07:59 AM - Re: The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. (linn walters)
23. 08:05 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (rob ray)
24. 08:16 AM - Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after (Sam Buchanan)
25. 08:21 AM - Re: 4130 parts showing rust through primer (Scott Bilinski)
26. 08:21 AM - Re: Safety Concerns (Cy Galley)
27. 08:21 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (Scott Brumbelow)
28. 08:40 AM - OT: Can I make this engine work in my -8 somehow? (Phil N)
29. 08:47 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (lm4@juno.com)
30. 08:47 AM - Re: Remote control winch? (lm4@juno.com)
31. 08:54 AM - Re: Remote control winch? (Cy Galley)
32. 08:55 AM - Re: 4130 parts showing rust through primer (Steven Eberhart)
33. 08:56 AM - Enough (BELTEDAIR@aol.com)
34. 09:13 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (Glenn Brasch)
35. 09:22 AM - Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after (linn walters)
36. 09:50 AM - Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly aft (Tedd McHenry)
37. 09:52 AM - Re: now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE (linn walters)
38. 10:12 AM - LOC? - What's That? (Matt Dralle)
39. 10:25 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com)
40. 11:00 AM - Re: PIREP first flight (Dana Overall)
41. 11:18 AM - Re: Glenn's post/Food fight, etc (certainly non RV) (John Helms)
42. 11:35 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (Allen Mecum)
43. 11:39 AM - Re: 4130 parts showing rust through primer (linn walters)
44. 11:47 AM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (linn walters)
45. 11:58 AM - New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Kevin Behrent)
46. 12:00 PM - Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed (Richard V. Reynolds)
47. 12:17 PM - Re: The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. (rv6tc)
48. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Glenn's post/Food fight, etc (certainly non RV) (rob ray)
49. 12:54 PM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (C. Rabaut)
50. 12:56 PM - Re: Food Fight Watson Reply (Jim Sears)
51. 01:08 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Jim Sears)
52. 01:12 PM - Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed (Scott Bilinski)
53. 01:22 PM - Re: Safe travels, Glenn (rv6tc)
54. 01:33 PM - Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed (Ralph E. Capen)
55. 02:05 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
56. 02:16 PM - Re: PIREP first flight (MSices)
57. 02:23 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Elsa & Henry)
58. 02:26 PM - Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed (Kevin Horton)
59. 02:26 PM - Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed (Boyd Braem)
60. 02:39 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (sshah@shreyans.info)
61. 03:07 PM - Re: now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE (David Carter)
62. 03:15 PM - spar tabs (Paul Eastham)
63. 03:19 PM - Traveling to Alabama (N13eer@aol.com)
64. 03:19 PM - Re: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive (Jim Jewell)
65. 03:24 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Paul Eastham)
66. 03:35 PM - Re: First flight decisions (Greg Young)
67. 04:35 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
68. 04:44 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (J. R. Dial)
69. 05:04 PM - Re: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive (linn walters)
70. 05:07 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Curt Hoffman)
71. 05:14 PM - Re: Safe travels, Glenn (Vince Himsl)
72. 05:28 PM - Re: Re: Safe travels, Glenn (RV6AOKC@aol.com)
73. 05:46 PM - Re: First flight decisions (linn walters)
74. 06:27 PM - Re: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... (RV6160hp@aol.com)
75. 06:28 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (linn walters)
76. 06:29 PM - Remote control winch? (Glen Matejcek)
77. 06:32 PM - Test & cal of pitot-static sys & insts -was Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed (David Carter)
78. 06:44 PM - RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? (Jim Cimino)
79. 07:13 PM - Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (Jim Sears)
80. 07:14 PM - Projects, Projects (John)
81. 07:24 PM - Re: The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. (Richard Sipp)
82. 07:35 PM - Re: RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? (Charlie & Tupper England)
83. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? (R. Craig Chipley)
84. 07:41 PM - tip-up rear window fit (thomas a. sargent)
85. 08:05 PM - Re: RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? (Joe Hine)
86. 08:19 PM - Re: RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? (Larry Pardue)
87. 08:25 PM - RV10 Tail kit Atlanta area? (Michael D. Crowe)
88. 08:52 PM - Re: OT: Can I make this engine work in my -8 somehow? (Chris W)
89. 08:57 PM - Wright brothers (David.vonLinsowe)
90. 09:44 PM - Air screw..... (JOHN STARN)
91. 09:48 PM - Re: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive (Jim Jewell)
92. 10:45 PM - Remote control winch (j1j2h3@juno.com)
93. 11:14 PM - Re: Air screw..... (Jim Jewell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
Terry,
Was going to reply to your post directly to you but since I've read some
of the other posts I'll reply online.
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto
Smart people don't make others feel stupid. They usually have patience
and understanding. That must go for the one asking the question as well as
the one answering it.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Message 2
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er you flame me
| Subject: | No subject as you will give it a new one shortly aft |
er you flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: Howard Crawford <crawfordh@mac.panasonic.com>
Lyle,
You got my vote. This is the first and last message that I will send
to the RV list. I am tired of reading all the messages that have nothing
to do with building an airplane by the all American Boys Club. If you
don't belong to the club don't talk to us.
I'm going to the RV10 group on YAHOO.
Gone.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lyle Peterson [mailto:lyleap@access4less.net]
rv7-list@matronics.com; rv8-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after
you flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap@access4less.net>
It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so narrow minded and
selfish. If you people had used one tenth of the energy you expended on
blasting my question to providing useful information, you could have
written a book. As is it you only demonstrated that you 1. Don't know
the answers, 2. Think that your knowledge is so unique that it can't be
shared, 3. You have an immense amount of time to waste, 4. You have
absolutely no respect for other people, whether they be builders or not.
Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' The only stupid
question is one that you can't answer!
I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers to be found there. I
found four and not all of them pertained directly to my question. None
of them covered all the questions I had posed.
A few responded off list. They probably did not want to be caught by
the lords of the list giving information to a new builder. I do thank
those few for the information they so generously shared. They are very
unlike the rest of the listers. Some two thousand people on these lists
and only a very few are willing to answer. Rather, several find the
time to waste flaming the questioner. The thread continues under the
guise of a 'Food Fight.' How charming!
So many messages use an existing subject because so few of you have
figured out how to start a new thread on the list. Shame, shame. Look
at the bottom of the message for the information you need. You don't
even have to ask a question of the list, and thus get flamed for a
stupid question.
I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I do, which is
doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. There are some folks
there that will talk decently to you about airplanes and lots of other
things.
If you get too many copies of this email, use the delete key.
Thanks for nothing,
Lyle Peterson
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after you |
flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Gang, heck you know me I can get flamed with the best of them and still
pound away joyfully:-)
I want you to look at how Lyle ended his post of intial questions to the
list:
>>>>Thank all of you for the information and encouragement.
Lyle Peterson<<<<
Did he get either??
Sit back and think, here he is.....has finally decided on starting the
building process, has laid in bed envisioning how to set up his shop,
probably wondered whether to use pegboard on the walls or not, table in
middle or movable to rearrange shop when required........man, this is
getting FUN. Tools, man I love tools, gotta have new tools, don't want to
waste money right off the bat.......be doing enough of that as I reorder
parts. I've done some research, lets see, been following the lists and
researched enough of the archives to ask a few questions in a knowledgable
fashion.........OK how to form up my email in a logical manner to get the
answers I need..........here goes, hit the enter key. WHAM, stupid, dumb,
do your research, transformed to have to have your first 20 posts go through
a moderator........and all he wanted were a couple quick answers to a couple
questions?? Yes, I did email him a couple hints on some things I have
learned along the way........took, what 2 minutes.
Sorry, but I learned as a police officer, when you pick up that telephone
the person on the other end is making the most important phone call they can
think of at time......treat it that way. I carry this same thought with my
CPA practice now, that client is asking the most important question on their
mind at that moment............I treat it that way.
Sorry, gang but with the new kits, a lot of the info in the archives does
not apply 100%, true he was asking some generic questions and even building
a 6 but if you don't think that post was the most important email he had to
send at that moment.....................
Off the soapbox, but give these guys a break. I'd feel the same way if my
first post here had been treated with the flood of negitivity that
perpetuated the list.
BTW, I do have a question I was going to ask this morning but now is
certainly not the time. I don't care if it takes me three days to find the
answer, I'll find it somewhere, somehow.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Smart people don't make others feel stupid. They usually have patience
> and understanding.
I agree with Jim on this and have sent a note to Lyle Peterson offline to
apologize for the behavior of some of our listers. I sincerely hope that he
doesn't think all of us on the list are quick to belittle our newbie friends
in the same manner he's been made an example of. Folks, it's this kind of
behavior that's lost a lot of members on this list. Unfortunately, a goodly
portion of them were very good contributors, to include one Van's employee
that I remember, who decided that being flamed was not a good thing. I
quit contributing as much, for the same reason.
It's a shame that so much of the bandwidth on this list is used to
communicate useless messages that could be done at the chat room or offline
somewhere else. We don't have to agree on everything; but, we do have to do
it in a civil manner so that we don't run folks off. Lyle is left with a
very bad taste in his mouth and may be very reluctant to ask any more
questions. I, for one, would feel badly if he did something wrong on his
airplane that could cause him harm later just because he was afraid to ask
us a question. Wouldn't you?
When I got on this list, it was a very useful tool. Today, it's turned into
something that doesn't come up to the standards it had when I joined up in
1996. Some of the stuff that comes in via the RV-list is no better than the
spam I delete regularly and a good example of why I don't belong to chat
rooms. Guys, if you have to carry on about something, switch to the chat
room and go for it! At least the main list will be left for more serious
stuff, like helping newbies with questions that have been asked a million
times.
I can't remember what Lyle's original question was. I just hope I answered
it for him, to the best of my ability. I'm not sure I did and have
apologized to him for it.
I can't answer all of the questions because my knowledge base is limited to
what I've experienced.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly aft |
er you flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Lyle,
> You got my vote. This is the first and last message that I will send
> to the RV list. I am tired of reading all the messages that have nothing
> to do with building an airplane by the all American Boys Club. If you
> don't belong to the club don't talk to us.
> I'm going to the RV10 group on YAHOO.
> Gone.
>
Folks, this is just what I was talking about in my other note. The
gentleman is a friend of mine who just started his RV-10. I suggested that
he join the RV-list so that he could maybe learn something from it. Now,
we've lost him to a group that may have much more limited experience than we
do, as a group. I know that Howard could have been a good contributor to
this list, as well. He's never built an airplane; but, he's been around
them for a long time and doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. He knows
quite a bit about aircraft and could have helped answer some of our
questions, once he got comfortable with the list. Now, he's gone. I know
him well enough to know that he won't return. When he gets fed up, he's
goes and doesn't look back. Unfortunately, the RV-list will be the one to
lose out.
Maybe I need to look at the Yahoo list, as well. :-(
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I for one should have been nicer.
My apologies.
We should be able to vent a little without folks getting their feelings
hurt. The venters used smilies and "just venting." . Personally I was
just having a little fun with the new guys. I surely had no intention of
seeing em bail.
Maybe my dig was at their expense. My apologies again. I do hate to see
em go. There is much to be learned.
To those that were offended, I think you will find that no offense was
intended. These posters are great people who like to play and throw out
a little sarcasm that can be hard to read in print. Its all in good fun.
Please don't take it personally.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sears
Subject: Re: RV-List: Food Fight Watson Reply
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Smart people don't make others feel stupid. They usually have
patience
> and understanding.
I agree with Jim on this and have sent a note to Lyle Peterson offline
to
apologize for the behavior of some of our listers. I sincerely hope
that he
doesn't think all of us on the list are quick to belittle our newbie
friends
in the same manner he's been made an example of. Folks, it's this kind
of
behavior that's lost a lot of members on this list. Unfortunately, a
goodly
portion of them were very good contributors, to include one Van's
employee
that I remember, who decided that being flamed was not a good thing. I
quit contributing as much, for the same reason.
It's a shame that so much of the bandwidth on this list is used to
communicate useless messages that could be done at the chat room or
offline
somewhere else. We don't have to agree on everything; but, we do have
to do
it in a civil manner so that we don't run folks off. Lyle is left with
a
very bad taste in his mouth and may be very reluctant to ask any more
questions. I, for one, would feel badly if he did something wrong on
his
airplane that could cause him harm later just because he was afraid to
ask
us a question. Wouldn't you?
When I got on this list, it was a very useful tool. Today, it's turned
into
something that doesn't come up to the standards it had when I joined up
in
1996. Some of the stuff that comes in via the RV-list is no better than
the
spam I delete regularly and a good example of why I don't belong to chat
rooms. Guys, if you have to carry on about something, switch to the
chat
room and go for it! At least the main list will be left for more
serious
stuff, like helping newbies with questions that have been asked a
million
times.
I can't remember what Lyle's original question was. I just hope I
answered
it for him, to the best of my ability. I'm not sure I did and have
apologized to him for it.
I can't answer all of the questions because my knowledge base is limited
to
what I've experienced.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
=
==
==
==
==
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
listers,
I'm traveling to New Mexico next week in my new RV-6A. I'm planning stops
at 29G, 1H0 (overnight), CLK & AEG. Final destination is NM69, a private
strip SE of TCS. Anybody interested in seeing a nice IFR panel
implementation can email me off list for details when I'll be at the above
airports.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
* Wrk E-mail: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com
* Hm E-mail: wstucklen1@cox.net
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
There are several cases of the GPS antenna under the cowl.
Ours is for a KMD-150 and (like many) is mounted on a bracket/shelf that is
bolted to the firewall. Have not heard of anyone attaching it to the engine
mount.
Has worked fine so far ... over 240 hours.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:55 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I've thought of mounting the GPS antenna under the cowl on a shelf
> cushion-clamped to the top arc of the engine mount. Has anyone else
> done that already? Any drawbacks?
>
> If not there, I'll just put mine on the glareshield. I have the 196,
> panel-mounted and the stock antenna.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen, RV-8 fwf/cowl
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: a flyer [mailto:aflyer@direcway.com]
> > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:44 PM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Antenna
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: a flyer <aflyer@direcway.com>
> >
> > Ouch!
> >
> > First, Garmin's 196 antenna is powered, like all GPS
> > antennas. They have to do some signal to noise enhancement
> > (and frequency down-conversion) at the antenna to work with
> > the very weak GPS signal.
> >
> > Second, I think Chuck was offering an alternative idea, that
> > of putting the antenna on the glareshield, rather than under the cowl.
> >
> > On my 8, I cut a hole in the glare shield, and mounted the
> > antenna on a bracket under the hole. It is covered with the
> > fabric glareshield cover. I have a Skyforce unit. This
> > approach has the advantages of keeping the antenna in a cool
> > place, and also having a very short (about 12") long cable
> > from antenna to receiver. I have not seen any degradation of signal.
> >
> >
> > I would also throw in the opinion that blaming the lawyers
> > for lawsuits is like blaming the gun for murders. The lawyers
> > are just a hired gun, someone needs to hire them to press the suit.
> >
> > do not archive
> > John Huft (electrical engineer)
> > RV8, Pagosa Springs, CO
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> > <mstewart@iss.net>
> > >
> > > Chuck,
> > > Is your glare shield under your cowl? Do you have Garmin's
> > std issue
> > > GPS antennae?
> > >
> > > Please folks lets read the listers ? first.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > Its my day to rant.
> > > Do not archive.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
> > > Rowbotham
> > > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS Antenna
> > >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham"
> > > <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Neil,
> > >
> > > We installed Getz's hockey puck GPS ant on top of the glare shield.
> > > It's
> > >
> > > flat black like our glareshield - small and has worked great.
> > >
> > > Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> > > RV-8A
> > >
> > > >From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
> > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > > >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Subject: RV-List: GPS Antenna
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:22:51 -0000
> > > >
> > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson"
> > > <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
> > > >
> > > >Listers
> > > >
> > > >I'm planning on mounting my GPS antenna on a firewall
> > forward bracket
> > > just
> > > >under the top surface of the cowl, rather than on the
> > scuttle under
> > > >the
> > >
> > > >windscreen or externally. This seems to be a favoured
> > place adopted
> > > >by
> > > many
> > > >builders. My question is will this location work
> > satisfactorily with
> > > the
> > > >standard antenna supplied with a Garmin 196 or is this only
> > > >appropriate
> > >
> > > >with a powered active unit. Thanks for your input.
> > > >
> > > >Neil Henderson RV9A nr Aylesbury UK
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill Bruns,
to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good airplane
here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and can
confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The plane is
a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was just
happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back to
finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at all.
What a thrill!
Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment), and
the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one figured
out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were 195
(but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I don't
seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming down on
this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like that,
but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time I
got abeam the numbers :>.
Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them rivets.
Wanted to type that for a long time.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mike Sices
RV8 N339JA
Flying!
---
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV Formation Clinic, Jan. 16-18 in Lakeland Florida |
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>, <tvrvbg@yahoogroups.com>,
<OhioValleyRVators@yahoogroups.com>, <Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Howdy,
As many of you know, there is an RV Fly-In held January 17-18 2003 in
Lakeland Florida. This year Team RV's 2nd annual formation clinic is
being held there. Warm weather, blue skies, great facilities, and big
runways all come together to make the perfect location for our winter
training this year. This is a clinic, meaning its hands on. You will
receive both ground and air instruction. This course is focused on the
beginner, with room for the advanced formation flyer. All skill sets are
welcomed and encouraged. There will be experienced instructors there to
help the newcomers, and the experienced pilots will be there to chip in
and gain valuable stick time. We need as many experienced pilots as we
do the new guys. The cost is FREE, the value is priceless.
This is a 2 day event, starting with the ground school portion Friday
night, January 16th at 7:00pm lasting 2 hours. We will have dinner
during the ground school.
Saturday will be spent flying. Lots of flying. Newbees will spend their
first formation flight in the right/back seat of an experienced pilot so
you can first see how its done. Then you will get to fly a 2 ship with
an experienced pilot in YOUR right/back seat. Then you will progress as
your skills dictate.
This is tremendous fun and opportunity for all and I again look forward
to putting this on along with the other Team RV members as well as Stu
McCurdy, the certification program administrator and flight lead for
Falcon Flight. I encourage those of you who have been to one of these to
lets your formation friends, experienced and new, know what a fun and
challenging experience this is. Chime in on the lists, and forward to
your interested RV pilots.
So jump on over to the clinics website at
http://mstewart.net/michael/rv/teamrv/formationclinic/2004/index.htm
read about the details, and register.
We hope to see you there.
Michael Stewart
Team RV
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming model codes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Here is a link to a page with all the different designations and the
differences.
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/Lyc_Cert_list.html
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaaal
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne@mchsi.com>
> >
> >Does anyone know where I could obtain a listing of the model code
designations for the different models of Lycoming engines?
> >
Message 12
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| Subject: | The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
Well, this list has gone the way of another builders list I am on. Many
years ago, when everyone was actively in the early stages of their
project, the list was a great place to find information and, more
importantly, get your daily dose of inspiration. As the builders
progressed with their projects they forgot about the camaraderie that
was generated by the frequent interchange of information. They too
routinely get the response "CHECK THE ARCHIVES." You don't create that
camaraderie by always being told to go to the archives. Hell, all we
would need to do is print out the archive and we would no longer need
the builders forum.
The archives are a great resource, and I use them a lot, but, If we only
go to the archives to find out how things have always been done than we
loose one of the GREAT BENEFITS of a forum like this. We have a great
think tank here and some of the brain storming sessions have resulted in
some truly elegant solutions. When brainstorming, one of the most basic
rules it there are no dumb questions or remarks. The dumbest response
may be the one that trigger something that becomes the next truly
elegant solution.
I hope the RV lists get away from the "CHECK THE ARCHIVES" mentality and
returns to the "HEY, WE ARE ALL BUILDING SOME OF THE NEATEST AIRCRAFT
AROUND, LETS TALK ABOUT IT" mentality.
All of the builders lists I have been on go through periods where the
phase of the moon isn't right and all hell breaks loose. Several of the
really valuable members generally unsubscribe and everyone suffers from
the loss of their input. Lets all remember our feelings when we finally
got up the courage to place the order for our empennage kit. How would
you have felt if the response to your first post was "CHECK THE ARCHIVES"
On another subject. I am in the process of painting a friends RV-8 that
has been flying for less than a year. When the RV lists settle down a
little I will discuss some of the problems I have found with some of the
"primer war" solutions that are in the archives. Will probably post
some .jpg's of the 4130 parts that are showing rust through one of the
most frequently mentioned primers.
Soap box mode off, asbestos underwear on, pneumatic rivet squeezer in
hand ready for battle :-)
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A #70362
Jim Sears wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
>>Lyle,
>>You got my vote. This is the first and last message that I will send
>>to the RV list. I am tired of reading all the messages that have nothing
>>to do with building an airplane by the all American Boys Club. If you
>>don't belong to the club don't talk to us.
>>I'm going to the RV10 group on YAHOO.
>>Gone.
>>
>
>
> Folks, this is just what I was talking about in my other note. The
> gentleman is a friend of mine who just started his RV-10. I suggested that
> he join the RV-list so that he could maybe learn something from it. Now,
> we've lost him to a group that may have much more limited experience than we
> do, as a group. I know that Howard could have been a good contributor to
> this list, as well. He's never built an airplane; but, he's been around
> them for a long time and doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. He knows
> quite a bit about aircraft and could have helped answer some of our
> questions, once he got comfortable with the list. Now, he's gone. I know
> him well enough to know that he won't return. When he gets fed up, he's
> goes and doesn't look back. Unfortunately, the RV-list will be the one to
> lose out.
> Maybe I need to look at the Yahoo list, as well. :-(
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
> EAA Tech Counselor
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
>
>
>I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
>first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill Bruns,
>to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
>around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
>landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good airplane
>here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and can
>confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The plane
>is
>a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
>getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
>seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
>correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
>thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was just
>happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back to
>finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at all.
>What a thrill!
>
>Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment), and
>the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one figured
>out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were 195
>(but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I don't
>seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
>engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming down
>on
>this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like that,
>but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
>crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time I
>got abeam the numbers :>.
>
>
>Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
>meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them rivets.
>Wanted to type that for a long time.
>
CONGRATULATIONS, Mike! See, told ya it's a sweet airplane. ;) Keep it high
and close to home for a while. HAVE FUN!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
351 hrs.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: (snip) you flame me |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Folks, I'm new to this list, so bear with me. I don't know what's gone
on in the past, but I have some experience on other lists. My comments
to Lyle are below.
Lyle Peterson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap@access4less.net>
>
>It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so narrow minded and
>selfish.
>
They're not, really. I find them most generous, intelligent, and
willing to share their knowledge as well as their tools.
> If you people had used one tenth of the energy you expended on
>blasting my question to providing useful information, you could have
>written a book.
>
Lyle, I, like many others here, don't really remember what the question
was, but I think it was the rivet gun question. I also wanted to know
because I'm close to where you are in knowledge about the whole riveting
thing. I'm a little better off than a rock, but not much. I will hang
around and learn.
> As is it you only demonstrated that you 1. Don't know
>the answers, 2. Think that your knowledge is so unique that it can't be
>shared, 3. You have an immense amount of time to waste, 4. You have
>absolutely no respect for other people, whether they be builders or not.
>
That's harsh. Maybe true, but I don't think so. There was one email
that started this thread that suggested that the answers are in the
archive. I used some of the information to form a list. Wasn't a flame
.... I was trying to understand what I should do on the list. Because I
was new to the list I wasn't attaching the 'do not archive' (well,
that's done) statement so there's some junk littering the archives. OK,
I'll accept the noodle treatment and apologize. But I digress.
There are some caustic individuals on the other lists I subscribe to
also. I just take the comments with a large grain of salt, consider the
source and move on. I have been blasted too, by folks that don't know
me. I have also been educated, and will put up with someone who didn't
get any last week and is having a bad day. I get that way sometimes,
and although I don't mean it, my post comes out sarcastic. Well, if
it's aimed at me ..... I don't give a poop. There's some useful info
buried in the sarcasm.
>Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' The only stupid
>question is one that you can't answer!
>
The question wasn't labelled 'stupid', if I remember correctly .....
which may not be true either. It was labelled 'redundant'. 'Been there
before', 'repetitive', but not stupid. There are no stupid questions.
Stupid answers maybe.
>I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers to be found there. I
>found four and not all of them pertained directly to my question. None
>of them covered all the questions I had posed.
>
But, Fred Kunkle sent us an attachment with some info. In it was a lot
of good stuff, and I don't have the knowledge to understand it all .....
but I will. For this email I looked up 'flames'. 1300 of them showed
up, but there were a lot of them pertaining to real burning-type
flames. Lyle's email was there too.
>A few responded off list. They probably did not want to be caught by
>the lords of the list giving information to a new builder. I do thank
>those few for the information they so generously shared. They are very
>unlike the rest of the listers. Some two thousand people on these lists
>and only a very few are willing to answer. Rather, several find the
>time to waste flaming the questioner. The thread continues under the
>guise of a 'Food Fight.' How charming!
>
Hey! I did that, thank you very much! It does resemble one doesn't
it? After the initial 'nasty' email though, I don't remember any
negative ones other than comments about how the list should be 'used'.
Ok, that wasn't directed at you, but the list at large, and is only
their opinion. I understand their feeling about getting the same
question over and over again, but I don't share their view. I've posted
a lot of the same info (on other lists .... ) many times because the
question came up again. So what? I'm pretty opiniated and here's a
chance to share my thoughts. I hope that along the way I've helped a
few souls.
>So many messages use an existing subject because so few of you have
>figured out how to start a new thread on the list. Shame, shame. Look
>at the bottom of the message for the information you need. You don't
>even have to ask a question of the list, and thus get flamed for a
>stupid question.
>
Yeah, some threads go on and on with the same subject line but the
subject has really deviated a lot. Happens everywhere. This list isn't
so different from any other, with the exception of the main theme.
>I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I do, which is
>doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. There are some folks
>there that will talk decently to you about airplanes and lots of other
>things.
>
If you get through the building process, and many don't, you really
should take the bird to Oskosh or Lakeland or both. It's a wonderful
experience. I took my Pitts to Lakeland for many years before it just
got to be too much trouble getting it there along with my ground
transportation and camper. When you build an RV, you become part of the
largest type family of homebuilts. I've been to a few RV fly-ins with
my RV friend, and they're as nice and friendly as any other group. I'm
also a member of Antique/Classic (now Vintage Aircraft) and like those
folks too.
>If you get too many copies of this email, use the delete key.
>
Yeah, that works. But I dislike multiple copies on multiple lists .....
and that was my gripe ....... but I'll continue to do my part by
answering only in one list, and only the first copy.
>Thanks for nothing,
>
Well, Lyle I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sorry that you had to send
your email too. I detect a lot of anger in it, and I can tell you that
anger is a destructive emotion. I've really suffered from it and had to
take anger management classes as a result. Maybe that's why I'm so
thick-skinned. Who knows? I don't take negative comments from people
who don't know me in a personal way. Life goes on, and I'm going to
make the best of it.
>Lyle Peterson
>
Well, if you fade away Lyle, it's been nice to know you .... if only
briefly. I hope you hang in there though, and keep asking questions.
There are a lot of us that don't know enough to ask the question so
you're obviously ahead of us!!! Like one email I read this morning
before answering this one, I would feel bad if you didn't get the help
you needed and something bad happened. We all do. Even the 'nasty
email' ones. I may be flamed for ranting, but that's the price the list
pays for being an open forum!!!! If you move on to the Yahoo groups,
I'll see you there. I'm registered there too, but don't loke Yahoo's
setup. My own personal observation ..... but I stick with them anyway.
Hope your day gets better!
Linn Walters
Message 15
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| Subject: | PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Congrats Mike.
So now that the first flight is done, and you are feeling every emotion
known to man, can you reflect back a bit on your decision to not take
the first departure. I know it is early, but it is also all fresh in
your mind. I am sure other builders would like to know you how you now
feel, having given the first reins up.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MSices
Subject: RV-List: PIREP first flight
--> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill
Bruns,
to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good
airplane
here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and
can
confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The
plane is
a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was
just
happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back
to
finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at
all.
What a thrill!
Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment),
and
the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one
figured
out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were
195
(but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I
don't
seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming
down on
this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like
that,
but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time
I
got abeam the numbers :>.
Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them
rivets.
Wanted to type that for a long time.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mike Sices
RV8 N339JA
Flying!
---
=
==
==
==
==
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Remote control winch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: flmike <flmike2001@yahoo.com>
You might be able to adapt a wireless starter or
keyless entry system like the car alarm guys sell. I
think they can be had for $30 range. Nifty key fob
control. Just be sure it is a stand-alone unit, not
an alarm add-on. If the winch is 12 VDC, then you
have the right power supply too.
Mike
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Mike,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: PIREP first flight
>Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:20:50 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
>
>
>I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
>first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill Bruns,
>to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
>around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
>landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good airplane
>here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and can
>confirm that statement.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid questions and archives and do not archive |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
All,
I understand both sides of the discussion - Been There.
I remember asking those early questions and the patience the old timers had
with us new builders. If you remember your initial building hesitations -
it's much easier to refer the new builders to the archive and or provide
additional support.
To the new builder - keep asking the questions.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Stupid questions and archives and do not archive
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:56:37 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
>By all means, check the archives.
>
>Now, there are those who do check the archives and don't find quite what
>they want. Then there are those who are not quite adept at checking
>archives. Finally, there are those who are new to the list and don't know
>about archives. Wait - really finally are those who are new to computer
>usage who really want to use the system to help them build but are
>intimidated by it all.
>
>Be nice to everyone. When I worked in Silicon Valley someone said it is
>good to be nice to everyone since they may be your boss tomorrow!
>
>We need a FAQ to be posted every week or so, huh? You do grok faq don't
>you?
>do not archive
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
CONGRATULATIONS MIKE !!!!!!
Now that's what our list(s) are really aimed at. Not the crying & whining.
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: MSices <msices@core.com>
Subject: RV-List: PIREP first flight
> --> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
>
>
> I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
> first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill Bruns,
> to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
> around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
> landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good airplane
> here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and can
> confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The plane
is
> a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
> getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
> seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
> correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
> thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was just
> happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back to
> finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at
all.
> What a thrill!
>
> Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment), and
> the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one figured
> out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were 195
> (but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I don't
> seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
> engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming down
on
> this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like that,
> but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
> crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time I
> got abeam the numbers :>.
>
>
> Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
> meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them rivets.
> Wanted to type that for a long time.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Mike Sices
> RV8 N339JA
> Flying!
> ---
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | 4130 parts showing rust through primer |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" <pnewlon@toosan.com>
OK, I'll saddle up and be the first to bite!
I'm stopping by Loeb Electric tonight after work to pick up my new
infrared heater so that I can start priming the stack of parts that's
accumulated on my bench over the last week. Before I do that, can you
expound a little on the problems you've seen with 4130 parts showing
rust through the primer?
I'd sure hate to have the same problem, and if I'm using the primer in
question I may reconsider or redouble my efforts at getting as
near-perfect a surface before priming.
TIA, Phil
Getting sassified with a little work on the tail (I can spell that
better than empennage :-)
> Will probably post some .jpg's of the 4130 parts that are
> showing rust through one of the most frequently mentioned primers.
Message 21
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| Subject: | now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Just a comment from "Stupid in Little Rock". I notice there are two kinds
of folks on this list. Those that use it for themselves as entertainment
and those that also use it for information and to help others. If you're in
the first group, then chill a little and enjoy it. If you're in the latter
group, pat yourselves on the back.
You guys have no idea how many folks read these lists but don't ask stupid
questions just because we don't want to bother anyone. I have read this
list religiously for over a year, used the archives, responded off line, and
until today never posted a question to the list itself. I have made it
through my emp kit on a 7qb mostly because of some of the great "real time"
information that I pick up here and would be sorely missing the answers to
"stupid" questions others ask. Believe it or not, there are some of us that
are so stupid that we don't know what a stupid question is until one of the
less patient labels it so for us. ( it's an Arkansas thing )
My only point is that folks like Sam B and Dan C and others do a great
service by patiently answering questions and pointing us in the right
direction. Though I have never posted a stupid question ;o) for fear of
receiving this kind of response, I would ask a little patience 'cause
sooner than later I'm gonna! You do yourselves a disservice (I think that's
a word) when you underestimate how much benefit you provide to others.
The reason I follow this list and am building a RV is because of the folks
who took the time, a deep breath, and answered way too many questions with a
grin and some contagious enthusiasm. PLEASE keep it up! Thanks to all of
you who do answer, gently correct the errors of our ways, and remember a
time when you needed answers as well.
I'm done now!
Bill Schlatterer
7qb waiting on fuse/wings
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Watson
Subject: RE: RV-List: now "Food Fight"
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
No, I think Chuck has got it just right, except that the rest of us need to
remember how to use the delete key. Stupid questions are what people ask to
become unstupid. Nosewheel or tailwheel, 8 or 9 or 7 or 10 or 4 or 3,
primer or no primer or what primer, where to buy tools and what tools to buy
are stupid questions only when we know the answers. For many of us, we got
the answers right here. I have little bitty wires running all over my
airplane and I have a dozen or a hundred questions about hooking them up.
Those of you who know all about avionics will no doubt consider at least
some of them stupid questions, as I might when I get it all figured out and
wonder why it wasn't obvious to me before. But I thought that's what this
list was for - unstupifying us.
Use the archives, use the do not archive, use the delete key. And be nice
to these guys. They are us, and they are helping pay the freight.
Terry
RV-8A wiring, sort of.
Seattle
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Since I'm on a roll, and immune to flaming, I'll comment!
Steven Eberhart wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
>
>Well, this list has gone the way of another builders list I am on. Many
>years ago, when everyone was actively in the early stages of their
>project, the list was a great place to find information and, more
>importantly, get your daily dose of inspiration. As the builders
>progressed with their projects they forgot about the camaraderie that
>was generated by the frequent interchange of information. They too
>routinely get the response "CHECK THE ARCHIVES." You don't create that
>camaraderie by always being told to go to the archives. Hell, all we
>would need to do is print out the archive and we would no longer need
>the builders forum.
>
And kill a lot of trees!!!! God I couldn't resist that!!! :-D . Oh
no, another food fight!!! (I hope not! Don't change the subject
line!!!) But I don't think you'll have anyone dispute what you said.
>The archives are a great resource, and I use them a lot, but, If we only
>go to the archives to find out how things have always been done than we
>loose one of the GREAT BENEFITS of a forum like this. We have a great
>think tank here and some of the brain storming sessions have resulted in
>some truly elegant solutions. When brainstorming, one of the most basic
>rules it there are no dumb questions or remarks. The dumbest response
>may be the one that trigger something that becomes the next truly
>elegant solution.
>
AMEN!!! Since we got here by a rivet gun question, in the time between
the first RV rivet and now, guns have changed so the archives may not be
relevant, even if the subject had been visited many times. Works for
almost any subject.
>I hope the RV lists get away from the "CHECK THE ARCHIVES" mentality and
>returns to the "HEY, WE ARE ALL BUILDING SOME OF THE NEATEST AIRCRAFT
>AROUND, LETS TALK ABOUT IT" mentality.
>
They will, or they'll die. I, for one, have been lucky ..... my time on
the point of the pin has been rather limited, which is strange since I'm
so opinionated. Lucky, I guess. I still disagree with some things
folks post, but we usually agree to disagree. I never try to change
someones mind, but hope to offer food for thought.
>All of the builders lists I have been on go through periods where the
>phase of the moon isn't right and all hell breaks loose. Several of the
>really valuable members generally unsubscribe and everyone suffers from
>the loss of their input. Lets all remember our feelings when we finally
>got up the courage to place the order for our empennage kit. How would
>you have felt if the response to your first post was "CHECK THE ARCHIVES"
>
And that loss is immeasurable. I've sent posts that, when I read it on
the list, came across far from it's intended target. I apologize for
them. I'll do it again here, I'm sure, so I'll apologize in advance.
As I post to the list in the future, I hope that you get to know me well
enough to give me the benefit of the doubt and let it pass. We could
all use a little tolerance now and then.
>On another subject. I am in the process of painting a friends RV-8 that
>has been flying for less than a year. When the RV lists settle down a
>little I will discuss some of the problems I have found with some of the
>"primer war" solutions that are in the archives. Will probably post
>some .jpg's of the 4130 parts that are showing rust through one of the
>most frequently mentioned primers.
>
Don't wait. I'm going to give you my diagnosis without knowing which
primer or method of application or..... well being ignorant hasn't ever
stopped me from being opinionated. Damn, I'm repeating myself a lot
lately!!!
Preparation. Now how simple was that???
>Soap box mode off, asbestos underwear on, pneumatic rivet squeezer in
>hand ready for battle :-)
>
No! No! Not the rivet squeezer!!! That's assault with a deadly weapon,
unless it's self defense, and that's OK!!! :-D ! By the way, speaking
of Rivet squeezers .... what color is the most used ..... couldn't find
it in the archive! OK, OK I'll back off. No need to answer that
one!!! Even if you think I'm serious.
>Steve Eberhart
>RV-7A #70362
>
Thanks for the post Steve!!
Linn Walters
Pitts S-1E
Grumman AA-1B
Piper Traumahawk
RV-10 kit in the near future!
Here it is!!! Do Not Archive!!!
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Mike;
CONGRATS Dude!
RR
RV4 1100 hours, 300 upside down...
MSices <msices@core.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "MSices"
I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill Bruns,
to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good airplane
here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and can
confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The plane is
a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was just
happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back to
finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at all.
What a thrill!
Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment), and
the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one figured
out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were 195
(but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I don't
seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming down on
this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like that,
but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time I
got abeam the numbers :>.
Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them rivets.
Wanted to type that for a long time.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mike Sices
RV8 N339JA
Flying!
---
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after |
you flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Lyle Peterson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap@access4less.net>
>
> It is so disheartening to learn that aviators are so narrow minded and
> selfish.
Hmmmmm.....doesn't sound like the hundreds of aviators I have been
honored to meet over the years.....
> <snip>
> Someone suggested that the question was 'stupid.' The only stupid
> question is one that you can't answer!
That is a stretch. One poster referred to his questions as "stupid".
Matter of fact, I bet all of us have asked some stupid questions at one
time or another! :-)
>
> I checked the archives for the "gazillion" answers to be found there. I
> found four and not all of them pertained directly to my question. None
> of them covered all the questions I had posed.
Interesting. Here are the results of my searches in the archive with
keywords from the original post:
"rivet gun" 917 hits
"3X" 555 hits
"2X" 971 hits
"rivet sets" 146 hits
"C frame" 89 hits
"swivel set" 70 hits
"yokes" 226 hits
"pneumatic" 968 hits
"rivet squeezer" 291 hits
Obviously nobody would want to read all those posts. But a ton of good
info is in the archives, much more than just "four" posts.
<snip>
> I did envision one day flying it to Oshkosh. If I do, which is
> doubtful, I will park it in the Vintage area. There are some folks
> there that will talk decently to you about airplanes and lots of other
> things.
I am sure that is true. You will no doubt find the "Vintage" aviators to
be very decent folks.......just as you will find the RVers to be if you
change your mind and decide to park in their area. :-)
Matter of fact, many of us have owned Vintage aircraft in the past.
Matter of fact, some of US are beginning to be considered as
"vintage"!?! :-)
> Thanks for nothing,
Lighten up, Lyle. Building an aircraft is going to require MUCH MUCH
more patience than you have exhibited in your post. RV builders are a
great resource as you progress along the path of putting your RV-6 in
the air. Now is not the time to be burning bridges.
Best regards,
Sam Buchanan
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 parts showing rust through primer |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
The way I understand it is most primers are not moisture/water proof. This
is dated info though and the newer primers might be. Anyone know for sure?
At 10:32 AM 11/18/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" <pnewlon@toosan.com>
>
>OK, I'll saddle up and be the first to bite!
>
>I'm stopping by Loeb Electric tonight after work to pick up my new
>infrared heater so that I can start priming the stack of parts that's
>accumulated on my bench over the last week. Before I do that, can you
>expound a little on the problems you've seen with 4130 parts showing
>rust through the primer?
>
>I'd sure hate to have the same problem, and if I'm using the primer in
>question I may reconsider or redouble my efforts at getting as
>near-perfect a surface before priming.
>
>TIA, Phil
>Getting sassified with a little work on the tail (I can spell that
>better than empennage :-)
>
>> Will probably post some .jpg's of the 4130 parts that are
>> showing rust through one of the most frequently mentioned primers.
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Safety Concerns |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Your Lycoming is "hard" timed. It doesn't vary. That is why there are
schemes to retard the fixed timing for starting... Impulses and show of
sparks. Once running the stock mag doesn't change its timing. So static
timing works very well for your engine. No need for a dynamic timing light.
Now if you put on an electronic ignition, then and only then you might need
a timing light. But even these are timed from a fixed point. With your
car, they are load and rpm dependent so the need for dynamic timing. I
would save my money for something else.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
Subject: RV-List: Safety Concerns
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
> I have always timed my Lycoming with the #1 cylinder at TDC and the timing
> mark aligned with the case halves. This has worked for a long time.
>
> I now want to get more technical and have purchased a fancy digital timing
> light that has a LCD screen with direct read out.
>
> My concern is: How to use the light on a running engine...I have an RV6A
and
> would have to be up on a step stool behind the prop in order to see what's
> going on. The notion of slipping off the stool, or otherwise getting
tangled
> up in the prop has me, frankly, more than "concerned" -I can't see
standing
> in from of the prop with the engine going and using the light....
>
> What do you techies do in such a situation?
>
> (And, yes, I have checked the archives first.)
>
> John
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow@fedex.com>
I am not Mike, but having recently gone through the same decision process, and
having
someone else do the first flight on my RV-8A, I can tell you that I have NO regrets
about not doing the first flight myself. I have about 10 hours on my aircraft now,
and
can tell you that I spend zero time thinking about that first flight, but instead
spend all my time thinking about (anticipating) the next flight.
However, if I make myself reflect on that first flight, I find that I think I actually
enjoyed it more having someone else do it and me doing the second flight. There
were
no first flight jitters for me and certainly more confidence knowing that the aircraft
was at least somewhat proven.
So to get to the point, I have no regrets about not doing the first flight myself,
and
know - without hesitation - I would do it the exact same way again. My ego did
not
require me to make it, and as I mentioned above, I don't even think about it. I
am
enjoying the flying now way too much to give this a second thought.
Others may disagree, but there are far to many other aspects of this to enjoy.
I just
don't see very many people dwelling excessively on that first flight once you get
flying. Yes, believe me I know it is all you think about while you are building
and
before it happens, but once it happens you very quickly move on - regardless of
who
actually did the first flight.
Hope that helps...
Scott in MEM
RV-8A
10 hours
do not archive
"Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Congrats Mike.
>
> So now that the first flight is done, and you are feeling every emotion
> known to man, can you reflect back a bit on your decision to not take
> the first departure. I know it is early, but it is also all fresh in
> your mind. I am sure other builders would like to know you how you now
> feel, having given the first reins up.
>
> Mike
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MSices
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: PIREP first flight
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
>
> I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
> first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill
> Bruns,
> to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
> around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
> landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good
> airplane
> here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and
> can
> confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The
> plane is
> a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
> getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
> seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
> correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
> thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was
> just
> happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back
> to
> finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at
> all.
> What a thrill!
>
> Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment),
> and
> the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one
> figured
> out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were
> 195
> (but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I
> don't
> seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
> engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming
> down on
> this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like
> that,
> but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
> crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time
> I
> got abeam the numbers :>.
>
> Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
> meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them
> rivets.
> Wanted to type that for a long time.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Mike Sices
> RV8 N339JA
> Flying!
> ---
>
> > ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | OT: Can I make this engine work in my -8 somehow? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" <pnewlon@toosan.com>
I don't think the battery in the tail will help much with the CG
though. The wife might complain about the fuel burn, too.
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Phil
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
Jim,
Please calm down. It would seem that you are not afraid to
say what is on your mind and you articulate those things so very well.
It is for that reason that when you talk I listen; weather it's RV
answers
or commentary. This list can little afford to lose people like yourself
and if it does what will it be left with ?
Larry Mac Donald
do not archive
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:42:28 -0500 Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com> writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
> > Smart people don't make others feel stupid. They usually have
> patience
> > and understanding.
>
> I agree with Jim on this and have sent a note to Lyle Peterson
> offline to
> apologize for the behavior of some of our listers. I sincerely hope
> that he
> doesn't think all of us on the list are quick to belittle our newbie
> friends
> in the same manner he's been made an example of. Folks, it's this
> kind of
> behavior that's lost a lot of members on this list. Unfortunately,
> a goodly
> portion of them were very good contributors, to include one Van's
> employee
> that I remember, who decided that being flamed was not a good thing.
> I
> quit contributing as much, for the same reason.
>
> It's a shame that so much of the bandwidth on this list is used to
> communicate useless messages that could be done at the chat room or
> offline
> somewhere else. We don't have to agree on everything; but, we do
> have to do
> it in a civil manner so that we don't run folks off. Lyle is left
> with a
> very bad taste in his mouth and may be very reluctant to ask any
> more
> questions. I, for one, would feel badly if he did something wrong
> on his
> airplane that could cause him harm later just because he was afraid
> to ask
> us a question. Wouldn't you?
>
> When I got on this list, it was a very useful tool. Today, it's
> turned into
> something that doesn't come up to the standards it had when I joined
> up in
> 1996. Some of the stuff that comes in via the RV-list is no better
> than the
> spam I delete regularly and a good example of why I don't belong to
> chat
> rooms. Guys, if you have to carry on about something, switch to the
> chat
> room and go for it! At least the main list will be left for more
> serious
> stuff, like helping newbies with questions that have been asked a
> million
> times.
>
> I can't remember what Lyle's original question was. I just hope I
> answered
> it for him, to the best of my ability. I'm not sure I did and have
> apologized to him for it.
> I can't answer all of the questions because my knowledge base is
> limited to
> what I've experienced.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
> EAA Tech Counselor
> do not archive
>
>
>
> _->
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Remote control winch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
Dan,
Have you thought of using the door lock solonoids and car fob/car
receiver
for a remote control curcuit ?
Larry Mac Donald
do not archive
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:09 -0800 (PST) Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
>
> I have a winch that was left in my hangar from the
> last person that had the hangar. I thought I would
> never need it to pull my RV6a into the hangar since
> the RV's are easy to push or pull.
>
> The end or March this past year we had some snow that
> blanketed the area leaving the taxiway in front of my
> hangar very slippery. When I realized I couldn't push
> the plane back into the hangar because of the ice, I
> grabbed the cable on the winch and hooked it to the
> RV.
> The winch saved the day!!!
>
> The winch is an old winch and uses an extension wire
> you have to unwind all the way to the front of the
> plane. Then you have to hold down the switch while the
> cable is winding up while your other hand is steering
> the front wheel.
>
> Where can I buy something like a garage door remote
> control that I could use to replace the extension
> wire. I'm looking for the remote and the receiver. I
> can find remotes but all the receivers seem to be
> attached to the garage door mechanisam. It just needs
> to start and stop.
>
> Dan DeNeal
> RV6A N256GD
> I love my plane!!!
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> _->
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Remote control winch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I have made several winches using a coaster brake from a bike. One feature
you should always use is a low voltage relay on the control cord. I used a
heating pump relay that used 12 volts to control the 110 going to the motor.
Then in bad weather or if you dropped the switch into a puddle, there would
not be a shock hazard. The relay also eliminates the voltage drop from the
long control cable and you can use very light cord for the control.
If you really want to hold 110 AC in your hand, made sure that your winch is
plugged into a Ground Fault Interrupter (GFI) These are cheap ($10) and
work well.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie & Tupper England" <cengland@netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Remote control winch?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England
<cengland@netdoor.com>
>
> Dan DeNeal wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I have a winch that was left in my hangar from the
> >last person that had the hangar. I thought I would
> >never need it to pull my RV6a into the hangar since
> >the RV's are easy to push or pull.
> >
> >The end or March this past year we had some snow that
> >blanketed the area leaving the taxiway in front of my
> >hangar very slippery. When I realized I couldn't push
> >the plane back into the hangar because of the ice, I
> >grabbed the cable on the winch and hooked it to the
> >RV.
> >The winch saved the day!!!
> >
> >The winch is an old winch and uses an extension wire
> >you have to unwind all the way to the front of the
> >plane. Then you have to hold down the switch while the
> >cable is winding up while your other hand is steering
> >the front wheel.
> >
> >Where can I buy something like a garage door remote
> >control that I could use to replace the extension
> >wire. I'm looking for the remote and the receiver. I
> >can find remotes but all the receivers seem to be
> >attached to the garage door mechanisam. It just needs
> >to start and stop.
> >
> >Dan DeNeal
> >RV6A N256GD
> >I love my plane!!!
> >
>
> The requirement to hold the button might become a very important
> damage-prevention feature. How about a switch you can hold in (activate
> with) your teeth, wired in parallel to the retract button on your
> current controller? It then becomes a 'dead man' switch if you drop it.
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 parts showing rust through primer |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
THe plane is an RV-8 that was delivered before Van's switched to powder
coating the 4130 steel parts. We have had to clean up rust that was
starting to show through the elevator and rudder brackets. It was like
the primer was porous and didn't seal against moisture. The paint used
was RM DP-40. THere seems to be a distinct difference between the RM DP
primer and the PPG DP primer. I cleaned up the rust with a wire wheel
on the Dremel and primed with NAPA rattle can self etching primer and
then everything was primed with the same PPG DP-40LF that the entire
plane was primed with. Color coats were PPG Concept.
Steve Eberhart
Finishing up the paint job on RV-8 N49KS and building RV-7A N14SE
Phil N wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" <pnewlon@toosan.com>
>
> OK, I'll saddle up and be the first to bite!
>
> I'm stopping by Loeb Electric tonight after work to pick up my new
> infrared heater so that I can start priming the stack of parts that's
> accumulated on my bench over the last week. Before I do that, can you
> expound a little on the problems you've seen with 4130 parts showing
> rust through the primer?
>
> I'd sure hate to have the same problem, and if I'm using the primer in
> question I may reconsider or redouble my efforts at getting as
> near-perfect a surface before priming.
>
> TIA, Phil
> Getting sassified with a little work on the tail (I can spell that
> better than empennage :-)
>
>
>>Will probably post some .jpg's of the 4130 parts that are
>>showing rust through one of the most frequently mentioned primers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: BELTEDAIR@aol.com
Gentlemen, Ladies, were all in this airplane together. The holiday season is
upon us, stress is in the air, but so should be our planes. How about some
flight articles of late? Anyway Happy Holidays.
Belted Air Power
Do Not Archive.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
I think the lesson to be learned here is that the reason we are here is to
build and learn, learn and build, not to mention the fundamental reason, to
help others do the same. I agree with a previous post that much of what I
get here is the same as spam to me and I just delete it. No big deal, I can
handle that. But maybe we just need to get back to the basics here, the
reasons why we all started, and cut down on all the side topics, and help
our fellow builders, because God knows, I need the help.
Glenn in Arizona -9A Wings DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <lm4@juno.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Food Fight Watson Reply
> --> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
>
> Jim,
> Please calm down. It would seem that you are not afraid to
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly after |
you flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>Lighten up, Lyle. Building an aircraft is going to require MUCH MUCH
>more patience than you have exhibited in your post. RV builders are a
>great resource as you progress along the path of putting your RV-6 in
>the air. Now is not the time to be burning bridges.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
Very true. Patience and a little thicker skin.
From the posts, you've been around a long time. How long? Which RV?
Linn (the instigator) Walters
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: No subject as you will give it a new one shortly aft |
er you flame me
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Jim Sears wrote:
> Folks, this is just what I was talking about in my other note.
Jim:
With all due respect, it sounded to me as though Howard's leaving had little to
do with people not being civil, or any of the other things you discussed in
your previous post. He complained about non-RV-related topics and the "all
American Boys Club," whatever that means. It sounds to me as though something
else put him off, but I can't tell what.
I genuinely wish him luck over in Yahoo land. But, as anyone who's used
newsgroups and listservers for a few years knows, they all change their
character over time, especially if they grow. I'd much rather see people stick
around and contribute what they can than go join another list where, in all
likelyhood, they will eventually find the same problems that drove them from
the RV List.
I don't mean to take away from the importance of what you (Jim) or anyone else
has said. Genuine politeness is important (not just putting a smiley at the
end of a barb). Avoiding subjects that really don't belong is important. For
what it's worth, though, I don't consider discussing list etiquette irrelevant,
because it's not yet clear to everyone what's okay and what isn't.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
do not archive
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
I guess I've been camped on this computer all morning. Afraid I'll miss
something!!!
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Just a comment from "Stupid in Little Rock".
>
High Stupid. Abby here! :-)
> I notice there are two kinds
>of folks on this list. Those that use it for themselves as entertainment
>and those that also use it for information and to help others. If you're in
>the first group, then chill a little and enjoy it. If you're in the latter
>group, pat yourselves on the back.
>
Darn, there's the third group. We're fence sitters and do both! And my
arm hurts from reaching back so far!!! I try.
>You guys have no idea how many folks read these lists but don't ask stupid
>questions just because we don't want to bother anyone.
>
The word is 'disturb'. But we're all disturbed or we wouldn't be in
this hobby!!! You need to read the 243 pages of 'rules for lists'. On
page 104, the third paragraph down it says 'Lurkers will only be
hampered by not chiming in and asking questions or offering comfort to
the bretheren (is there a female term like this?), so Peeping Toms
should be encouraged to speak up.' ;-) . As far as I know, even the
most severely flamed has not suffered any permanent damage, so even the
timid should speak up. I'm not timid. I'm on the other end of the
scale. I never shut up ..... except when sleeping.
> I have read this
>list religiously for over a year, used the archives, responded off line, and
>until today never posted a question to the list itself. I have made it
>through my emp kit on a 7qb mostly because of some of the great "real time"
>information that I pick up here and would be sorely missing the answers to
>"stupid" questions others ask. Believe it or not, there are some of us that
>are so stupid that we don't know what a stupid question is until one of the
>less patient labels it so for us. ( it's an Arkansas thing )
>
Must be. I remember Stupid Bill :-P . Other than that I think you're
pulling my leg. Ya are, aren't you??? So, how far have you
progressed??? Maybe we can chat about the QB kit. But not now, I need
to check the archives. I'm such a babe in the woods (shop?) that I
don't really have a good grasp on the subject. Having too much fun
stirring the pot! :-)
>My only point is that folks like Sam B and Dan C and others do a great
>service by patiently answering questions and pointing us in the right
>direction. Though I have never posted a stupid question ;o) for fear of
>receiving this kind of response, I would ask a little patience 'cause
>sooner than later I'm gonna!
>
Oh, you bet! But no trophies for that :-( .... too many have attempted
it before you. Remember "there's no ..... " Yeah, I thought so.
> You do yourselves a disservice (I think that's
>a word) when you underestimate how much benefit you provide to others.
>
Hey, I like this guy! My ego just took a big jump, and I haven't even
done anything!!! Oooh, stroke, stroke ;-) .
>The reason I follow this list and am building a RV is because of the folks
>who took the time, a deep breath, and answered way too many questions with a
>grin and some contagious enthusiasm.
>
There you go again. Yoy're pulling my leg. See, I know the real
reasons. You're building because you have delusions of saving money by
building your own and flying it cheaply. Same reason I built my Pitts.
Well there's other reasons too, like self satisfaction and having
something you can work on and improve/unimprove ...... whatever ....
without the FAA getting in the way. I won't disillusion you right now.
I'll just offer encouragement and soft, soothing words. Remain
uninformed. It's good for you :-D !
> PLEASE keep it up! Thanks to all of
>you who do answer, gently correct the errors of our ways, and remember a
>time when you needed answers as well.
>
Heck, I can still remember a few hours back!!! I ain't that far gone!!
>I'm done now!
>
OOOh, I hope not Bill! You've just got me started 8-) !
>Bill Schlatterer
>7qb waiting on fuse/wings
>
Why are you waiting? Are the other shipments suffering because of the
-10 kits?
>do not archive
>
I hope not! I'd hate to think someone would try to make sense out of
this in a month!!!
Linn (loudmouth) Walters
Message 38
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| Subject: | LOC? - What's That? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is a directory of everyone's name that made
a Contribution during this year's List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of
publicly thanking everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
support the continued operation and upgrade of these Email Lists. This
year's List of Contributors is just around the corner; I'll be posting the
it on or about December 1.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking, no doubt, to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
11/18/2003 11:49:39 AM
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
I have not been following this thread too closely but if I get the jist of
the messages being thrown around is to check the archives before you post
etc. However the way I see it is pretty simple.
1. Be courteous to all listers who post a message irregardless of the
question. Remember you too were once a "newbie"
2. the only stupid question is the one that was not asked.
3. maybe the question posted just needed some validity from real time
people instead of an automated archived response.
4. If you dont like the question being asked don't answer and hit your
delete key.
5. Remember your response is going out for all the world to see and you are
responding to a "real" person.
6. finally as Matt has posted. THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
Happy holidays to all
do not archive
Glenn Williams
p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Congrats man, that is great news in and of itself but a heck a lot more
interesting than Shakespeare, lawyers, tort, mashing tape and food fights:-)
Seriously, concrats and be careful.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Glenn's post/Food fight, etc (certainly non RV) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Glenn,
Seriously, from a former Army officer who was in Iraq 10 years ago, if you
go east, keep your head down, and go get him so that place will settle down.
And thanks for serving all of us.
And to poke fun at the previous thread a little, and because it's a slight
pet peeve of mine... Straight from the dictionary... proper term is
regardless.
irregardless [ rri gard less ]
adverb
( nonstandard ) See regardless
[Early 20th century. Origin uncertain: probably a blend of irrespective and
regardless.]
Word Usage
Nonstandard usage:
A moment's thought will reveal that since the prefix ir- means "not" (as it
does in irrespective), and the suffix -less means "without,"irregardless is
an illogical double negative. As such it is to be avoided, in favor of
irrespective or regardless.
I know where the origin is... the military. Same people who use "orientate"
in place of "orient" when talking about figuring out their relative position
with respect to a map. Military officers trying to make memos, papers,
orders, and such sound more official.
John "JT" Helms
been to Iraq, as a helicopter pilot, wish I was there to help.
for gosh sakes don't clutter the archive with this
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Food Fight Watson Reply
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
I have not been following this thread too closely but if I get the jist of
the messages being thrown around is to check the archives before you post
etc. However the way I see it is pretty simple.
1. Be courteous to all listers who post a message irregardless of the
question. Remember you too were once a "newbie"
2. the only stupid question is the one that was not asked.
3. maybe the question posted just needed some validity from real time
people instead of an automated archived response.
4. If you dont like the question being asked don't answer and hit your
delete key.
5. Remember your response is going out for all the world to see and you are
responding to a "real" person.
6. finally as Matt has posted. THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
Happy holidays to all
do not archive
Glenn Williams
p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: Allen Mecum <mecum@pacbell.net>
Glenn,
If you do go keep yourself safe and tell all that you meet that we are all still
thinking and praying for them. Thanks for keeping America free!!!!!!!!!!
Allen
DO NOT ARCHIVE
glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
I have not been following this thread too closely but if I get the jist of
the messages being thrown around is to check the archives before you post
etc. However the way I see it is pretty simple.
1. Be courteous to all listers who post a message irregardless of the
question. Remember you too were once a "newbie"
2. the only stupid question is the one that was not asked.
3. maybe the question posted just needed some validity from real time
people instead of an automated archived response.
4. If you dont like the question being asked don't answer and hit your
delete key.
5. Remember your response is going out for all the world to see and you are
responding to a "real" person.
6. finally as Matt has posted. THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
Happy holidays to all
do not archive
Glenn Williams
p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 parts showing rust through primer |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Steven Eberhart wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Steven Eberhart <newtech@newtech.com>
>
>THe plane is an RV-8 that was delivered before Van's switched to powder
>coating the 4130 steel parts. We have had to clean up rust that was
>starting to show through the elevator and rudder brackets. It was like
>the primer was porous and didn't seal against moisture. The paint used
>was RM DP-40. THere seems to be a distinct difference between the RM DP
>primer and the PPG DP primer. I cleaned up the rust with a wire wheel
>on the Dremel and primed with NAPA rattle can self etching primer and
>then everything was primed with the same PPG DP-40LF that the entire
>plane was primed with. Color coats were PPG Concept.
>
>Steve Eberhart
>Finishing up the paint job on RV-8 N49KS and building RV-7A N14SE
>
Well, I think I got it right. Preparation. Here's what I do, and it
seems to work in the FL humidity.
1. Buy some Ospho from your local hardware store.
2. Let the steel get a little surface rust. Ospho works best when there
isn't shiny steel. No, I don't know why.
3. Brush on the Ospho. If you HAVE to spray it, do so in well
ventilated area and wear a RESPIRATOR. Not a paper mask.
4. Let it dry over a day or so. It will look real ugly with rough
black crap all over it. Lightly sand off the ugly black crap.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. If you get more ugly black crap, do step 4. If not prime with paint
of your choice.
Ospho has acid in it (phosphoric, I think .... read the label. Well,
read it anyway. It also has a dissoved plastic in it that will coat and
seal the steel. the plastic is not durable so you must prime.
Now, for what Steve's problem was. He's right. Primer is porous. It
serves as a base to help make paint stick better. Paint doesn't stick
to bare metal very well, and primer doesn't keep the moisture out.
Together, however, they're a real good team. Steve didn't get the paint
on soon enough. Been there, done that, and stripped it all off to start
over. If you just try and kill the rust and paint over it though, it
will come back later on.
No, I'm not a paint expert, and don't play one on TV, but I've painted
enough to know what has worked for me in the past. Ospho will also work
on aluminum. I have test pieces 20 years old with good paint still on it.
I also caution against mixing types of primer and paint. If you're
going to use urethane paint, use urethane primer. Same with acrylic and
the other flavors.
Hope this helps!
Linn Walters
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com wrote:
>Happy holidays to all
>
>do not archive
>
>Glenn Williams
>
>p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
>for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
>
I'll think good thoughts and hope to keep you safe. If you go, please
take the time to drop us a note to let us know how you're doing. I'm
safe since they won't take an old fart!!! What is it you do for our Uncle?
Linn (the off-topic pest) Walters
Message 45
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| Subject: | New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
corrosion nightmare!
Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
the edge, but everywhere.
I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
just as bad.
So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
area that you DID peel the plastics!
Do not archive.
--
Kevin Behrent
rv-9a - wings
Message 46
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| Subject: | Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
I am trying to calibrate my airspeed meter with a water manometer.
I know the relationship is approximately P=K*V
N,
where P = in-H2O, K = Constant, V = knots, N=exponent, 2.
What is the "exact" formula for airpeed versus pressure (in-H2O) which
includes air temperature?
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Steve,
Well said.
Now. Post those pictures..... I'm very interested in that.
Keith Hughes
RV-6 Finish
Hoping I have the right primer!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Eberhart" <newtech@newtech.com>
> . When the RV lists settle down a
> little I will discuss some of the problems I have found with some of the
> "primer war" solutions that are in the archives. Will probably post
> some .jpg's of the 4130 parts that are showing rust through one of the
> most frequently mentioned primers.
>
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: Glenn's post/Food fight, etc (certainly non RV) |
--> RV-List message posted by: rob ray <smokyray@yahoo.com>
Glenn,
Just got back last summer from OIF, God speed buddy. Check Six, Twelve and your
belly once in awhile.
It's the wild west...trust me.
RR
John Helms <jhelms@i1.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms"
Glenn,
Seriously, from a former Army officer who was in Iraq 10 years ago, if you
go east, keep your head down, and go get him so that place will settle down.
And thanks for serving all of us.
And to poke fun at the previous thread a little, and because it's a slight
pet peeve of mine... Straight from the dictionary... proper term is
regardless.
irregardless [ rri gard less ]
adverb
( nonstandard ) See regardless
[Early 20th century. Origin uncertain: probably a blend of irrespective and
regardless.]
Word Usage
Nonstandard usage:
A moment's thought will reveal that since the prefix ir- means "not" (as it
does in irrespective), and the suffix -less means "without,"irregardless is
an illogical double negative. As such it is to be avoided, in favor of
irrespective or regardless.
I know where the origin is... the military. Same people who use "orientate"
in place of "orient" when talking about figuring out their relative position
with respect to a map. Military officers trying to make memos, papers,
orders, and such sound more official.
John "JT" Helms
been to Iraq, as a helicopter pilot, wish I was there to help.
for gosh sakes don't clutter the archive with this
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Food Fight Watson Reply
--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
I have not been following this thread too closely but if I get the jist of
the messages being thrown around is to check the archives before you post
etc. However the way I see it is pretty simple.
1. Be courteous to all listers who post a message irregardless of the
question. Remember you too were once a "newbie"
2. the only stupid question is the one that was not asked.
3. maybe the question posted just needed some validity from real time
people instead of an automated archived response.
4. If you dont like the question being asked don't answer and hit your
delete key.
5. Remember your response is going out for all the world to see and you are
responding to a "real" person.
6. finally as Matt has posted. THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
Happy holidays to all
do not archive
Glenn Williams
p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
---------------------------------
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Glenn,
If I'm the first to volunteer... I'd be happy to take care of your
plane while you're away. I'll even pay for fuel, etc...
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com>
> Happy holidays to all
>
> do not archive
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
> for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: Food Fight Watson Reply |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Mecum" <mecum@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Food Fight Watson Reply
> --> RV-List message posted by: Allen Mecum <mecum@pacbell.net>
>
> Glenn,
> If you do go keep yourself safe and tell all that you meet that we are all
still thinking and praying for them. Thanks for keeping America
free!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Allen
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com
>
>
> I have not been following this thread too closely but if I get the jist of
> the messages being thrown around is to check the archives before you post
> etc. However the way I see it is pretty simple.
>
> 1. Be courteous to all listers who post a message irregardless of the
> question. Remember you too were once a "newbie"
> 2. the only stupid question is the one that was not asked.
> 3. maybe the question posted just needed some validity from real time
> people instead of an automated archived response.
> 4. If you dont like the question being asked don't answer and hit your
> delete key.
> 5. Remember your response is going out for all the world to see and you
are
> responding to a "real" person.
> 6. finally as Matt has posted. THINK BEFORE YOU POST.
>
> Happy holidays to all
>
> do not archive
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
> for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
>
>
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
Kevin's remarks below are news to me. If this is true, I feel it's
appropriate to archive this piece of information for future reference. I'll
sure peel plastic in the future! In fact, I'm going to forward this to my
friend who just left us for the Yahoo group. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
> Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
> complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
>
> I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
> worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
> time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
> and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
> plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
> corrosion nightmare!
>
> Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
> space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
> still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
> in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
> a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
> close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
> applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
> the edge, but everywhere.
>
> I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
> bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
> appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
> none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
> getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
> the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
> that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
> environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
> just as bad.
>
> So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
> kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
> surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
> carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
> riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
> from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
> area that you DID peel the plastics!
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
How do you tweak the ASI once you find it is off?
At 03:02 PM 11/18/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
>
>I am trying to calibrate my airspeed meter with a water manometer.
>
>I know the relationship is approximately P=K*V
>N,
>
>where P = in-H2O, K = Constant, V = knots, N=exponent, 2.
>
>What is the "exact" formula for airpeed versus pressure (in-H2O) which
>includes air temperature?
>
>Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Safe travels, Glenn |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Glenn,
A billboard outside Vance AFB...
Train Hard
Serve Well
Return Soon
Godspeed,
Keith Hughes
Capt emeritus, USAF
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
>
> Glenn Williams
>
> p.s. to any who care my unit has been alerted and I may be going to Iraq
> for 15 months. I will let you know when I know if I am to be deployed.
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Check the archives...one of the manufacturers of one of those all-in one
flight display systems has instructions in it for making your own...it has
the numbers in it.
Don't remember which one- but I did print it off at home...I'll try to
remember and scan it in....
Ralph Capen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
Subject: RV-List: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
>
> I am trying to calibrate my airspeed meter with a water manometer.
>
> I know the relationship is approximately P=K*V
> N,
>
> where P = in-H2O, K = Constant, V = knots, N=exponent, 2.
>
> What is the "exact" formula for airpeed versus pressure (in-H2O) which
> includes air temperature?
>
> Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Here's another data point for you - the guidance in the RV-10 manual is
to not leave the plastic on more than a few weeks or the adhesive will
make the plastic much more difficult to remove (nothing about
corrosion). I assume that this is the current policy since the ink is
hardly dry on the pages.
Now let me get my flame-proof underwear out... If there isn't any need
to prime alclad surfaces why didn't the alclad protect the skins? I
would be very interested in hearing an opinion from the "don't prime the
skins" folks. BTW, that's the path that I've started going down.
Bob
RV-10 #105: VS done, rudder in work
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Behrent [mailto:kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com]
Subject: RV-List: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's?
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent
--> <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
corrosion nightmare!
Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
the edge, but everywhere.
I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
just as bad.
So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
area that you DID peel the plastics!
Do not archive.
--
Kevin Behrent
rv-9a - wings
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 56
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| Subject: | PIREP first flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
Hi Mike:
Good question. I guess, for me, doing the first-flight was not an important
part of the process. But, I can see where it would be for some people. I
built everything on this plane - I wired the panel, cut the panel, painted
it - you name it, other than the QB part, I subbed nothing out. I take pride
in the fact that I did it myself (with help from friends and family, of
course).
However, I -did- sub-out the test pilot part because I felt that that would
be the safest approach for -me-. As soon as Bill landed and said I had a
good airplane, I was immediately infused with a different thought-process
about the whole thing. This might be psychological, but I could not ignore
it, because if I had done it myself, I might have been too nervous to handle
an emergency. Bill helped me understand it this way; I needed some help in
order to convince -myself- that I could do it. If you've got that
confidence already, then fly it yourself the first time by all means. Then
you can add that to the long list of things about the airplane that you
alone are responsible for. As I get older, I become more cerebral about
risk assessment (this is why they recruit 18 year olds to fight wars). But
I am glad I handled this the way I did. Thanks again everyone,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael
(ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RE: RV-List: PIREP first flight
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
Congrats Mike.
So now that the first flight is done, and you are feeling every emotion
known to man, can you reflect back a bit on your decision to not take
the first departure. I know it is early, but it is also all fresh in
your mind. I am sure other builders would like to know you how you now
feel, having given the first reins up.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MSices
Subject: RV-List: PIREP first flight
--> RV-List message posted by: "MSices" <msices@core.com>
I want to thank all of you who replied with helping ideas concerning my
first flight jitters. In the end I found a great local pilot, Bill
Bruns,
to do my first flight. First flight took place Friday, November 14 at
around 11am. Bill flew above the airport at about 3000 feet. After
landing, Bill rolled back the canopy and said, "you've got a good
airplane
here." That afternoon, on her -real- first flight, I took her up and
can
confirm that statement. Everything tracked straight and true. The
plane is
a lot easier to land than I had envisioned. Take-off is a blast - after
getting the tail up, I added full power, and it throws you back in your
seat! Those of you who indicated that the -8's want to wheel land were
correct - after touching down with the mains, I let the stick go neutral
thinking that the tail would drop on its own, but it didn't - it was
just
happy to be on the mains for a while. Finally, I nudged the stick back
to
finish out a nice landing. The stall is very benign - no wing drop at
all.
What a thrill!
Only sqwauks are slightly low vacuum pressure (regulator adjustment),
and
the prop is hunting a little at high RPM (I think I have this one
figured
out). According to my Vision Microsystem, the highest oil temps were
195
(but mostly I saw it at 170) and CHT's 395 (mostly at 260-350), so I
don't
seem to have the overheating yet that some report with the angle valve
engine (it was only 40 deg. outside though). I was too busy calming
down on
this short flight to look at speeds or climb rates or anything like
that,
but I will say that I had to bring the throttle way back while I was on
crosswind in the pattern in order to level off and slow down by the time
I
got abeam the numbers :>.
Thanks again for all of your support over the years - looking forward to
meeting more of you at fly-ins. And, oh yeah, keep squashing them
rivets.
Wanted to type that for a long time.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mike Sices
RV8 N339JA
Flying!
---
=
==
==
==
==
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Kevin,
That's unbelievable!! What the H**l is Alcad coating supposed to
DO!? It sounds to me you got a bad batch of aluminum! I bought the entire
kit at one time and peeled off the plastic in strips to allow riveting and
peeled off the rest prior to priming and painting after 5 years and this was
the white stuff that was hard to get off. The aluminum was pristine under
the plastic!---Don't understand it!
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>How do you tweak the ASI once you find it is off?
>
>At 03:02 PM 11/18/03 -0500, you wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
>>
>>I am trying to calibrate my airspeed meter with a water manometer.
>>
>>I know the relationship is approximately P=K*V
>>N,
>>
>>where P = in-H2O, K = Constant, V = knots, N=exponent, 2.
>>
>>What is the "exact" formula for airpeed versus pressure (in-H2O) which
> >includes air temperature?
>>
For the original poster, you can find the info you need at:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/asi.zip
This unzips to become an Excel spreadsheet that will convert back and
forth between ASI readings and water manometer readings. Contact me
for assistance if you have any problems with it.
For Scott: If the ASI has a big error, you send it back to the
vendor, or throw it away. I've heard one report of an ASI that was
over 10 mph in error. If the ASI has a small, but acceptable error,
you live with it.
Knowledge of the ASI error is a critical part of the process used to
determine the position error in the static system, assuming you use
one of the techniques that compares IAS against GPS based TAS. If
you are going to fly IFR, it is probably smart to figure out how much
static system error you have, as that translates into an error in the
indicated altitude.
It is also worthwhile making sure you don't have too big an error
even if you only fly VFR, as TCAS equipped aircraft use the altitude
from your transponder to determine whether to climb or dive as they
approach you. If you've got an error in your static system that will
affect the transponder too. And no, the transponder checks done by
the avionics shop don't tell you anything about position error, as
position error is due to the difference between the true ambient
pressure and the pressure at the static port. That error will be
zero in the hangar with the doors closed.
There is lots more info on this subject on my web site:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/ssec.html
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/phplinks/index.php?&PID=47
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
If I remember right (I'm saying that more and more these days), Kevin
Horton has a conversion chart on his web site.
Boyd.
do not archive
On Tuesday, November 18, 2003, at 04:36 PM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> Check the archives...one of the manufacturers of one of those all-in
> one
> flight display systems has instructions in it for making your own...it
> has
> the numbers in it.
>
> Don't remember which one- but I did print it off at home...I'll try to
> remember and scan it in....
>
> Ralph Capen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
> To: "RV List Email" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Pressure (in H2O) versus Airspeed
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds"
>> <rvreynolds@macs.net>
>>
>> I am trying to calibrate my airspeed meter with a water manometer.
>>
>> I know the relationship is approximately P=K*V
>> N,
>>
>> where P = in-H2O, K = Constant, V = knots, N=exponent, 2.
>>
>> What is the "exact" formula for airpeed versus pressure (in-H2O) which
>> includes air temperature?
>>
>> Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | RE: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: sshah@shreyans.info
My goodness! This message sent shiver down my spine. I thought the Van's says
that the alclad is good enough to deter corrosion and it's not necessary to
primer the alclad parts. Then, how can the skins get corroded! even if there
was dampness on the skin. I primer all internal parts but the outer surfaces
are all exposed and will be till I get to the final paint. I've stored the
completed empennage parts in basement which is kind of dry environment but
still exposed to all the condensation & moisture in the air. I'll shoot myself
if when I get the fuselage done few years down the road and find that the
empennage is all corroded. Does everybody take some special measures to reduce
the humidity in the storage area? Do you coat the skins with something before
storage to avoid corrosion? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Shreyans
> Subject: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's?
> From: Kevin Behrent (kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com)
> Date: Tue Nov 18 - 11:58 AM
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
>
> Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
> complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
>
> I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
> worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
> time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
> and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
> plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
> corrosion nightmare!
>
> Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
> space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
> still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
> in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
> a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
> close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
> applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
> the edge, but everywhere.
>
> I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
> bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
> appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
> none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
> getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
> the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
> that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
> environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
> just as bad.
>
> So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
> kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
> surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
> carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
> riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
> from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
> area that you DID peel the plastics!
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --
> Kevin Behrent
> rv-9a - wings
>
>
>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Welcome back, Linn. I've been on the list 6 years and have never been
mistreated. Must be your personality. (NO! NO! I'm just kidding!!!!!
Honest, no trick!)
I'm just trying to be a bit light and want to echo the good words others
have given - great people are on this list and generally give lots of "low
emotional cost" help. Just ignore the ones who try to, or unintentionally,
get under your skin. I had to learn that "I chose whether I'll be offended
by another person." - depends on my self image, which is pretty good. Now,
if he lied about me. . . . it gets tough on me and I have to do extra "deep
breathing and relax and let it pass". . . .
Since you are new, where would you like to start? Primer wars? Pneumatic
squeezer vs those long handled things? I have used the archives a few
times, but, usually, when I'm in a bind to make progress and something is
bothering me or I can't figure something out, I call Van's - if they say,
"I've never heard that before", then I get on the list and chat with all
those who have heard it before. (This is not to start a war on Van's Tech
Support guys - they give great help. Most of the problems have been
resolved in the RV-7 kit and subsequent - better manual, better kit,
everything - they have been putting their time where it gives us and them
the most bang - that is what I and other whiners like me have to remember
and truly respect.
David Carter
RV-6 QB - wiring tail lites; learning and collecting stuff for engine
(QB - for me, it is quick in name only - I'm slow - I don't put as much
time into the project as some)
Just pulled air conditioner evaporator cores today from an '84 Olds 88 & an
'83 Buick Le Sabre - cleaned & stored them to use later as radiators for my
Mazda rotary engine)
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: now "Food Fight" - FIRST TIMER RESPONSE
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> I guess I've been camped on this computer all morning. Afraid I'll miss
> something!!!
do not archive
Message 62
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--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
Anyone have any advice for how to keep the little tabs on the ribs
that fit inside the spar in alignment and sitting down flat? These
are the tabs that will be riveted through the skin.
(This is on a RV-9 HS but I think I've seen these tabs elsewhere in the
various kits)
I can usually bring them into alignment by pushing and prodding them,
and can definitely get a cleco in, but I can't maintain this
pressure and get a bucking bar in there at the same time. Bend them
permanently, you say? Well, some are already riveted to the spar, the
others...it's as if they are bent for a spar that was a little wider
than mine. Flattening out the existing bend then rebending it seems
pretty stressful on the metal to me.
Still struggling with aligning this !#$!#@ HS skin. It is just
way too tight. Problems on the main ribs too...my VS and rudder are
going together fine so I don't think it's total incompetence on my part :)
Paul
http://hmb.dyndns.org/~eastham/rv
PS regarding smoothness of skin rivets: a few are a little rougher on one side
than the other, clearly they are not sitting perfectly flat. Acceptable
to leave the rivet in place? Good task for a rivet shaver? (I know they are
tricky to use, lots of mixed opinions in the archives)
Message 63
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| Subject: | Traveling to Alabama |
--> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com
I'm planning a trip to Enterprise Alabama to visit my brother-in-law over Thanksgiving.
I plan on heading down on Saturday and staying about a week depending
on weather. Anyone got any advice on leaving a my -8 at the enterprise airport,
or an empty hanger there? I have not had a chance to call the FBO but plan
to do that tomorrow. Anyone have any must see sight while I'm in LA (lower
Alabama)
Thanks
Alan Kritzman
RV-8
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hello,
To everyone like me on this list that can not always resist the temptation
to jump directly out of a lack of information, directly into a forgone
conclusion without using the dreaded "do not archive".
What ever happened to the once common adage that suggested; People who live
in glass houses should not throw stones?:
With just a bit of experience with the use of a computer keyboard and some
spare time on the web, anyone!, from anywhere in the world!, can enter the
RV-List archives house of mirrors and see clearly into even the darkest of
it's corners.
Once again I will point out that by entering your own name into the rv-list
archives search box you to can peruse all that you have said over the years.
That is of course with the exclusion of the times that you did, wisely or
not, elect to use the by now infamous Do Not Archive while posting.
Regardless of your position re-the current flap, or some other emotion
grabbing future issue:
If you are overcome with the need to respond or otherwise jump into this,
that or another one of these topics or any future inevitable out of context
"food fights";
First try entering your own name in the archive search box.
If you are judgmentally satisfied with your own past behavior on the list
and are not in the least a bit humbled by what you find there? You will most
likely feel inclined to carry on and provide the list with yet another bit
of well thought out wisdom without the need for the use of the famous Do Not
Archive.
About stupid questions;
For most of us the stupid questions we asked in the past have put us into
the position of being able to ask much more highly evolved stupid questions.
Questions that might impress the hell out of all except those whom have
traveled the road before us.
There is hope. The list has a way of surviving these bad riveting days.
If you have read this far and are not yet amused at the tongue in cheek
intent herein. There is but one thing I might suggest;
Go back to the shop and work on your airplane, {(;-)!
Jim in Kelowna Oh!. and,... DO NOT ARCHIVE (;-)
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
That sounds pretty awful. At least you hadn't done much to the skins yet.
My manual does say to remove vinyl from the skins within weeks of
receipt, but the only reason given is that the adhesive gets hard to
remove after a while. There is an old thread in the archives that
suggests this is obsolete in recent kits; older kits may have used
a different sort of coating which was more prone to this problem.
Good luck,
Paul
RV-9A emp (with wing kit gathering dust)
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 12:02:07PM -0800, Kevin Behrent wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
>
> Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
> complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
>
> I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
> worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
> time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
> and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
> plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
> corrosion nightmare!
>
> Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
> space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
> still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
> in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
> a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
> close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
> applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
> the edge, but everywhere.
>
> I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
> bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
> appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
> none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
> getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
> the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
> that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
> environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
> just as bad.
>
> So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
> kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
> surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
> carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
> riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
> from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
> area that you DID peel the plastics!
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --
> Kevin Behrent
> rv-9a - wings
>
>
>
>
>
Message 66
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| Subject: | First flight decisions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Skill and confidence are certainly major factors in how the first flight
gets conducted and by whom. I don't mean to trivialize it but if all goes
well, as it normally does, it boils down to a bragging rights issue. What
doesn't get enough discussion is consideration of the ugly consequences of
bad and worst case scenarios, i.e. if the airplane gets bent/destroyed
and/or the pilot hurt/killed. The normal discussion is limited to "be
prepared to sacrifice the airplane" and "land straight ahead..." I was and
did and it worked out partly because of some other, unconscious, but
nonetheless right for me, decisions. I was shocked afterward by how many
people told me how devastated they would be to lose their aircraft and those
that would be unable to rebuild because of finances or other reasons. It
made me realize that others might follow branches of the decision tree that
I never touched.
I always planned to make the first flight and I prepared for it, so I never
considered the what-ifs of someone else flying my airplane. But maybe we all
should. Will you blame or second guess yourself if you break the airplane?
Can you handle someone else breaking your airplane? Would it be good to have
a scapegoat if something goes wrong;-)? If you pay someone to test fly it
and they get killed, can you rationalize it as a risk of his job? Can you
live with it if it's a good friend doing it as a favor? Is your family
better off if it's not you hurt or killed?
I had full first flight insurance and am otherwise covered but not everyone
is. Can you afford to fix or rebuild the airplane? Can your family afford
the medical bills if you are injured or your loss if killed? Can you afford
to be off work during your recovery? What if you don't fully recover? Can
you afford the legal fallout if someone else flys and is hurt or killed?
Will your spouse let you rebuild if you get hurt vs. a test pilot? Will you
care?
There are many more questions and no right or wrong, better or worse
answers. I pruned much of the decision tree without realizing it and we all
make some of these choices in our normal flying. But first flight and the
test period is a different level of risk warranting a fresh look. Do some
soul searching on the emotional and financial consequences to you and your
family if things don't go well. You may be surprised what you discover.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Kevin Behrent wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
>
> Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
> complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
>
> I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
> worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
> time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
> and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
> plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
> corrosion nightmare!
>
> Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
> space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
> still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
> in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
> a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
> close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
> applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
> the edge, but everywhere.
>
> I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
> bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
> appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
> none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
> getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
> the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
> that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
> environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
> just as bad.
>
> So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
> kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
> surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
> carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
> riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
> from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
> area that you DID peel the plastics!
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --
> Kevin Behrent
> rv-9a - wings
When I started, I took over a project that was started about 10 years before I
got it. He had some of the tail done. When we got into the wing box, many months
later, we found all kinds of corrosion. In our case it was the old packing
paper that seemed to be the culprit. I think in the paper manufacturing process,
they use some acid. Many of my skins looked like cobwebs flattened to the skin.
I called Van's not to complain but to inform them of the problem. The reply was
"they are packed to ship, not to store". I sorted through them and most was
surface damage that I was able to sand with an orbital sander using fine grit
disk. A few skins were replaced.
I got to thinking about the answer from Van's... They are right. Get those
parts out and put them together. If you take over an old kit, open it up and
look between the sheets of paper and at all the skins. There may be some
corrosion. This was before the plastic coatings they put on it now.
And if we stayed off these computers, those planes would fly in half the time.
I
gotta go out and work on the brake pedals.....
Phil
do not archive
Message 68
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| Subject: | New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
I had several pieces that sat up to three years and the glue
from the plastic really looked like corrosion but wipes off with
solvent(lacquer thinner) so it's sure not corrosion. I would think the
Alcad should protect it???
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elsa & Henry
Subject: Re: RV-List: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry"
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Kevin,
That's unbelievable!! What the H**l is Alcad coating
supposed to
DO!? It sounds to me you got a bad batch of aluminum! I bought the
entire
kit at one time and peeled off the plastic in strips to allow riveting
and
peeled off the rest prior to priming and painting after 5 years and this
was
the white stuff that was hard to get off. The aluminum was pristine
under
the plastic!---Don't understand it!
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
=
==
==
==
==
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jim Jewell wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
>Hello,
>
>To everyone like me on this list that can not always resist the temptation
>to jump directly out of a lack of information, directly into a forgone
>conclusion without using the dreaded "do not archive".
>
You mean me? ;-)
>What ever happened to the once common adage that suggested; People who live
>in glass houses should not throw stones?:
>
Well, after Hurricane Andrew, the state decreed that glass houses had to
withstand 150 MPH winds, and with the large surface area ...... never
said anything about flames, though. so, all glass houses have to be
equipped with shutters that can withstand a 2X4 hurled point on, fired
from a CO2 gun ..... like Momma nature has them! Oops, I just jumped
too soon!!! :-D
>With just a bit of experience with the use of a computer keyboard and some
>spare time on the web, anyone!, from anywhere in the world!, can enter the
>RV-List archives house of mirrors and see clearly into even the darkest of
>it's corners.
>
Aah, I'm sceptical. I've been in the house of mirrors and all I saw was
many copies of myself. Scary, really scary! :-P
>Once again I will point out that by entering your own name into the rv-list
>archives search box you to can peruse all that you have said over the years.
>That is of course with the exclusion of the times that you did, wisely or
>not, elect to use the by now infamous Do Not Archive while posting.
>
Well, there were a few posts that I didn't do that. So flog me. I
love it. I thrive on pain. Which is why I'm going to assemble a bunch
of little parts to make one big part .... an RV-10.
>Regardless of your position re-the current flap, or some other emotion
>grabbing future issue:
>
Hey, you're a quick learner .... no 'irregardless'???
> If you are overcome with the need to respond or otherwise jump into this,
>that or another one of these topics or any future inevitable out of context
>"food fights";
>
>First try entering your own name in the archive search box.
>
Well, I'm new so thankfully there aren't as many as others!!! I didn't
know about the DNA message. I plead ignorance or insanity. Ok, both.
> If you are judgmentally satisfied with your own past behavior on the list
>and are not in the least a bit humbled by what you find there? You will most
>likely feel inclined to carry on and provide the list with yet another bit
>of well thought out wisdom without the need for the use of the famous Do Not
>Archive.
>
Hopefully. I really want to contribute something meaningful, but this
'food fight' thing has been fun. I hope everyone sees it as an attempt
at humor. It was meant that way.
>About stupid questions;
> For most of us the stupid questions we asked in the past have put us into
>the position of being able to ask much more highly evolved stupid questions.
>
Now I like this part!!! :-)
>Questions that might impress the hell out of all except those whom have
>traveled the road before us.
>
This is what makes lists so great! I love it!!! You get answers to
your stupid questions (yeah, I know there aren't any .... just stupid
answers!) and if you can remember the answers, you impress the newbies
with your knowledge! We have self-perpetuating experts! I wanna be one
of those!!! Is it OK if I read all the posts and then, when asked, post
the answers as my own??? Nah, that won't work. My memory isn't that
good. Poo. I had hopes! :-(
>There is hope.
>
Oh, thank goodness! :-)
>The list has a way of surviving these bad riveting days.
>
Love the metaphor. But maybe you're serious. Are there bad riveting
days? Will I get infected??? Is there a cure?
>If you have read this far and are not yet amused at the tongue in cheek
>intent herein.
>
Wait! You mean you're not serious??? This is all a scam??? I'm
confused. How do we know what's serious and what's not? It's not in
the archives! ARRRGH!!! :-[
> There is but one thing I might suggest;
>
Ah, comes the knowledge!
>Go back to the shop and work on your airplane, {(;-)!
>
But it's not here yet!!! I'm in limbo! Maybe I can go practice
riveting on someone elses plane 'till mine gets here!
>Jim in Kelowna Oh!. and,... DO NOT ARCHIVE (;-)
>
Thanks Jim, and thanks for the DNA. I'll plant it at a murder scene ....
Linn (smokin' keyboard) Walters in ..... the witness protection program.
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
This thread worried my some so I went downstairs to pull off the plastic on
my wings. I have had my wing kit for about three years now. Long enough that
the plastic on the wings is the old clear stuff while the plastic on the
tail is blue (I went backwards since I had already built a tail on a -6).
After removing all the plastic I found some corrosion. Mostly was little pin
spots here and there but one of the bottom skins I haven't riveted yet
pending my electrical decisions had quite a bit. Looked like little tiny
dots. I was able to polish them out with some scrubbing with a scotch brite
pad. The insides of all the surfaces were all fine since I alodined and
primered them.
As to the old plastic getting hard to remove- it is a lot easier to remove
the old clear plastic from the wings then the brand new blue plastic off the
rudder and elevators. That blue stuff is thinner and sticks a lot more. I
think because it is thinner it tears / punctures easier instead of just
pulling off.
I guess I had seen so many pictures of wings with only the plastic over the
rivet lines removed I latched on to that plan. It does protect the skin from
scratches but as noted can cause some corrosion. Rocks and hard places come
to mind for us slow builders.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham@netapp.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Paul Eastham <eastham@netapp.com>
>
> That sounds pretty awful. At least you hadn't done much to the skins yet.
>
> My manual does say to remove vinyl from the skins within weeks of
> receipt, but the only reason given is that the adhesive gets hard to
> remove after a while. There is an old thread in the archives that
> suggests this is obsolete in recent kits; older kits may have used
> a different sort of coating which was more prone to this problem.
>
> Good luck,
> Paul
> RV-9A emp (with wing kit gathering dust)
>
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 12:02:07PM -0800, Kevin Behrent wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent
<kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
> >
> > Just got started on my wing kit and found that I will have to buy a
> > complete set of wing skins before I get started due to corrosion.
> >
> > I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of years and haven't really
> > worked on the kits for a variety of reasons. Recently, I have gotten the
> > time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I started on the wings
> > and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I started to peel the
> > plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent through the plastic. A
> > corrosion nightmare!
> >
> > Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it was stored in a dry
> > space and the emp kit sat just as long with no corrosion at all (plastic
> > still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions from several builders
> > in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had the local FAA guy (also
> > a chapter member) come by and render the final fatal verdict. After a
> > close inspection, it appears that the plastic coating may have been
> > applied when the wing skins were damp since the corrosion is not only on
> > the edge, but everywhere.
> >
> > I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was decided that I would
> > bring back the skins for their review and hopeful exchange (does not
> > appear likely). They did make a interesting comment that I suspect that
> > none of you have ever heard from them and the reason I am risking
> > getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That is, why didn't I remove
> > the plastic "immediately" after receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
> > that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store in a wet/damp
> > environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a dry environment was
> > just as bad.
> >
> > So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy when receiving your
> > kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL plastic coatings from
> > surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue plastic after you've
> > carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic where you'll be
> > riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are protecting the surface
> > from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only the scratches from the
> > area that you DID peel the plastics!
> >
> > Do not archive.
> >
> > --
> > Kevin Behrent
> > rv-9a - wings
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 71
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| Subject: | RE: Safe travels, Glenn |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
I care! And take care!
Vince Himsl
RV8-SB
Moscow, ID
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Safe travels, Glenn |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com
Be Safe Glenn and come back soon.....
Best Wishes,
Kurt Klewin, RV6A, OKC, OK
Maj, USAFR, (Returned from Iraqi Freedom Deployment last May)
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: First flight decisions |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Greg, I like your post. I also like the 'me' or 'him' dilemma. I flew
my Pitts the first time. I have been it's sole pilot for 22 years. I,
like you, always planned to make that first flight. I couldn't very
well say "I'm not sure if it'll fly so you be the test pilot". What if,
as you say, my best friend died in my airplane because I ........???
Scary thought. I never had that thought because I was going to be the
guinea pig. Read on!
Greg Young wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
>
>Skill and confidence are certainly major factors in how the first flight
>gets conducted and by whom. I don't mean to trivialize it but if all goes
>well, as it normally does, it boils down to a bragging rights issue.
>
I agree to a point. For me it was more personal accomplishment than
anything else. And, I didn't know any other Pitts pilots!
> What doesn't get enough discussion is consideration of the ugly consequences
of
>bad and worst case scenarios, i.e. if the airplane gets bent/destroyed
>and/or the pilot hurt/killed. The normal discussion is limited to "be
>prepared to sacrifice the airplane" and "land straight ahead..." I was and
>did and it worked out partly because of some other, unconscious, but
>nonetheless right for me, decisions. I was shocked afterward by how many
>people told me how devastated they would be to lose their aircraft and those
>that would be unable to rebuild because of finances or other reasons. It
>made me realize that others might follow branches of the decision tree that
>I never touched.
>
I looked up the NTSB report on your accident, but, of course, it says
the engine quit for unknown reasons. Do you have any theories? I
suspect that the engine was run and started up normally? Carb ice? I
can't make all the mistakes so I tend to learn from others misfortune.
Or fortune, too!!! ;-) .
>I always planned to make the first flight and I prepared for it, so I never
>considered the what-ifs of someone else flying my airplane. But maybe we all
>should. Will you blame or second guess yourself if you break the airplane?
>Can you handle someone else breaking your airplane? Would it be good to have
>a scapegoat if something goes wrong;-)? If you pay someone to test fly it
>and they get killed, can you rationalize it as a risk of his job? Can you
>live with it if it's a good friend doing it as a favor? Is your family
>better off if it's not you hurt or killed?
>
In today's litigous society, this is a very real problem. I would
rather leave a widow than make one.
>I had full first flight insurance and am otherwise covered but not everyone
>is.
>
How much did that cost? Where did you get the coverage, abd how did you
arrive at the coverage amount? I didn't know it existed.
>Can you afford to fix or rebuild the airplane?
>
I had to. Took me 13 years to bend my bird. I look upon it as an
educational experience. It was pilot error, although the error was
different from the NTSB findings.
> Can your family afford
>the medical bills if you are injured or your loss if killed? Can you afford
>to be off work during your recovery? What if you don't fully recover? Can
>you afford the legal fallout if someone else flys and is hurt or killed?
>Will your spouse let you rebuild if you get hurt vs. a test pilot? Will you
>care?
>
I think we all care. Was the medical expenses covered in the first
flight insurance, or was that a separate policy? Insurance from work???
>There are many more questions and no right or wrong, better or worse
>answers. I pruned much of the decision tree without realizing it and we all
>make some of these choices in our normal flying. But first flight and the
>test period is a different level of risk warranting a fresh look. Do some
>soul searching on the emotional and financial consequences to you and your
>family if things don't go well. You may be surprised what you discover.
>
A good point. There's acceptable risk and unacceptable risk. It gives
me pause to think that what happened to Greg could have been more
disastrous, and I'm glad he had the wherewithal to survive his wild
ride. I'm also glad he has the personality to persevere and rebuild. I
have had two off-field landings, but neither plane, passengers, nor
property were damaged in either one. I consider myself extremely
fortunate. There really are guardian angels out there!!!
IMHO, Greg made one mistake that got him caught. The narrative said he
was returning to the airport when the engine quit. On my initial flight
I climbed up to 3000' over my airport (the ceiling of class D at that
time) and never was very far from safe haven. As the hours built up, I
flew farther .... but always with a lot of altitude.
>Regards,
>Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
>RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
>Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
Thanks for giving us something to dwell on while our 'first flight' is
in the future!!!
Linn Walters
Do not archive
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6160hp@aol.com
I believe you will find the EAA minimum level is $100,000 of liability the pilot
must have on himself before the EAA young Eagles policy kicks in for the Million
I believe. Just being a member of EAA and filling out the forms - flying
young eagles doesn't mean you are covered. FOrms must be filled out and signed
before YE flight, pilot must be legal, current and BFR'd and so on....As well
the local EAA chapter must have filled out the insurance coverage request from
stating YE rides are to be given at that event too ... well in advance before
it is a covered...
Message 75
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| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
I'd like to make a suggestion: Take pictures of the corrosion and send
them to Van. If you have small pieces of aluminum with the corrosion
.... send them too. There is obviously a problem that should be
addressed. I do not know when the film is applied, but the adhesive may
be the culprit. Nobody will know unless the problem is addressed ....
and Van is the proper focal point. The aluminum sheets we use are
coated with pure aluminum. It's very thin, and scratches can easily
penetrate through the clad to the base aluminum alloy and produce the
possibility of corrosion. This is why it's good to protect the clad by
leaving the film on and only removing the film where riveting. So, as
it was so eloquently put .... between a rock and a hard place .... what
to do. Another lister read his plans/instructions ... which said remove
the film. Seems like that's what y'all should do.
Linn Walters
Do not archive
Curt Hoffman wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
>
>This thread worried my some so I went downstairs to pull off the plastic on
>my wings. I have had my wing kit for about three years now. Long enough that
>the plastic on the wings is the old clear stuff while the plastic on the
>tail is blue (I went backwards since I had already built a tail on a -6).
>After removing all the plastic I found some corrosion. Mostly was little pin
>spots here and there but one of the bottom skins I haven't riveted yet
>pending my electrical decisions had quite a bit. Looked like little tiny
>dots. I was able to polish them out with some scrubbing with a scotch brite
>pad. The insides of all the surfaces were all fine since I alodined and
>primered them.
>
>As to the old plastic getting hard to remove- it is a lot easier to remove
>the old clear plastic from the wings then the brand new blue plastic off the
>rudder and elevators. That blue stuff is thinner and sticks a lot more. I
>think because it is thinner it tears / punctures easier instead of just
>pulling off.
>
>I guess I had seen so many pictures of wings with only the plastic over the
>rivet lines removed I latched on to that plan. It does protect the skin from
>scratches but as noted can cause some corrosion. Rocks and hard places come
>to mind for us slow builders.
>
>Curt Hoffman
>RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
>Quick build fuselage now in basement
>Piper Cherokee N5320W
>1974 TR6
>
Message 76
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| Subject: | Remote control winch? |
MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
We've got a remote light switch that I believe we bought at Sears. It mounts in
place of our orig stoop light switch and is controlled by the garage door opener
remote. Sounds like it could be adapted to your needs pretty easily.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 77
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure (in |
H2O) versus Airspeed
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Rich, I've saved several e-mails w/info on manometers for pitot sys
calibration. Since I don't think we can post attachments to the RV-list
(please correct me if I'm wrong), I'll imbed them below - making this a long
e-mail. These 4 e-mails include altimeter cal as well as airspeed.
David Carter
- - - - - - - - - - start of cut & paste e-mails
E-mail #1 of 4:
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorto1537@rogers.com> (Kevin,
a test pilot, adds info after the table and explanation below)
>--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>17.4/20 0.20
>26/30 0.44
>34.8/40 0.79
>43.5/50 1.23
>50/57.5 1.63
>69.6/80 3.16
>70/80 3.20
>86.9/100 4.94
>100/115 6.56
>104.3/120 7.13
>110/126.5 7.95
>120/138 9.48
>130/149.5 11.14
>130/150 11.18
>150/172.5 14.87
>173.9/200 20.04
>200/230 26.71
>217.4/250 31.63
>
>First column is the airspeed in knots/MPH, second column is inches of
>water. Very simple accurate manometer made with 4 feet if 1/4 inch clear
>tubing from the hardware store and a yard stick and a wire tie. Wire tie
>the tubing onto the yardstick in the form of a long, skinny "u" shape,
>connect one end to the pitot tube and dribble water in the other end of
>the "u" to calibrate AS indicator in your airplane. Leaks indicate
>static or pitot connection leaks somewhere in your system, or AS
>indicator problems. Don't allow water to enter the pitot tube. The
>meniscus or "water level" or air-to-water lines indicate the pressure
>differences as applied to the water coulomb in the poly tubing. The
>length of differences between the two lines is what you are measuring
>(as indicated in the second coulomb in the above table)
>
>
>I've missed this handy table over the years and all the references at my
>house don't have this table. I found this at the Rocky Mt. site, as
>indicated by Jim Anders today.(A bunch of my friends don't have hi speed
>internet or DSL to download the PDF file, or browsers that allow
>external links. This ASCII version will be view able to all and also
>reside in the archives.
>
Kevin added:
I cranked up an Excel 4 spreadsheet that converts between height of
the water column and the airspeed indicator reading. It will work in
mph, kts or km/hr. The zipped spreadsheet file is at:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/asi.zip
A lot of other good stuff can be found from my Flight Test Links page:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/ftlinks.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fibreglas, yuck)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
- - - - - - - - - - - -
E-mail #2 of 4:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Andrews" <rv8apilot@hotmail.com>
Jim and all,
Thanks for the long post and all the new data.
Your right about us as a community needing to relate our own experiences for
the benefit of all so something like this won't be repeated.
When I did the first flight on my plane last August I relayed the fact that
my airspeed gage was 20 mph off on my first flight. In retrospect this was
pretty irresponsible of me not to have checked this out before I flew.
Since I have a Rocky Mtn Instruments Micro Encoder, all I had to do was go
to the calibration section of the manual to find out how to build a simple
manometer to check out the pitot system myself. The whole experience took
me about 30 minutes to construct the tool ( a simple clear tubing and yard
stick affair ) that only cost me about $10. Using the chart in the back of
the manual you can tell down to about a mph where you are with regard to
calibration. I have two airspeed indicators in my panel so I can verify one
against the other. You can also use this system to determine if you have a
leak.
The manual for the encoder is on the Rocky Mountain site (
http://www.rkymtn.com/ ) for anyone to download. In encourage everyone to
do this and construct this tool long before your first flight to insure that
what happened to Scott doesn't happen to you.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( out of the paint shop this weekend... Yippeeeeee )
rv8a.tripod.com
- - - - - - - - - - end of e-mail #2 - - - - - - -
E-mail #3 of 4:
From another e-mail, here is the website for all the above plus vastly more
detail on calibaration of pitot-static system:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/instcal/instcal.htm
I just clicked it and it still works. I would go there, then File, Save it
as a document on your hard drive so it won't be lost someday.
- - - - - - - - - -
E-mail # 4 of 4 - Altimeter calibration (not what you asked for, Rich, but
save it.):
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter calibration
<snip>
Formulae from Aviation Formulary, by Ed Williams:
http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm
At sea-level on a standard day:
the pressure, P_0 = 29.92126 "Hg = 1013.250 mB = 2116.2166 lbs/ft
2
= 760.0 mmHg = 101325.0 Pa = 14.69595 psi = 1.0 atm
Variation of pressure with altitude:
p= P_0*(1-6.8755856*10
-6 h)
5.2558797 h<36,089.24ft
So, I cranked up a quick spreadsheet and got
Variation of pressure with altitude:
ft in H20 in hg mm hg mb psi
0 407.1 29.92126 760 1013.25 14.69595
1000 392.6 28.86 732.9 977.2 14.17
2000 378.5 27.82 706.7 942.1 13.66
3000 364.9 26.82 681.1 908.1 13.17
4000 351.6 25.84 656.4 875.1 12.69
5000 338.7 24.9 632.4 843.1 12.23
6000 326.2 23.98 609.0 812.0 11.78
7000 314.1 23.09 586.4 781.9 11.34
8000 302.4 22.22 564.5 752.6 10.92
9000 291.0 21.39 543.3 724.3 10.5
10000 280.0 20.58 522.7 696.8 10.11
But, I think this will be a difficult thing to measure unless you can
find some specialized (read expensive) equipment.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
With a short addition by --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley"
<cgalley@qcbc.org>
Or you could just get out your AC 43.13-1A It has a table in inches of water
for a water manometer and it is accurate and simple. New version
unfortunately does NOT have the table nor instructions.
- - - - - - - - - - - end of quoted e-mails on the topic.
David Carter
Message 78
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| Subject: | RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
There used to be an organization out there called the "Pilot's Bed & Breakfast",
which if you were a member, you agreed to have traveling pilots stay at your
home when they passed through town. I spent some time with these members and
their families on some long trips in the early 90's and really enjoyed it. Has
anyone though of organizing such a group for our fellow RV Pilots? We all
love our RV's and we love to share them with others as well as talk about them.
The thing that made the original organization great was that you had something
in common with people all over the country and you could spend time with and
meet people who you had already something in common. I think us RV drivers
have a lot in common and I always enjoy meeting new people. I stayed with individuals
from St. Louis to Los Angeles and really had a great time, and saved
some money too. The only expense in the organization was for a yearly catalog
which listed members contact information. With the web, I think this could
easily be done without any expense.
Anyone interested?
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
Message 79
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| Subject: | Re: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
If I may chime in on this discussion. As some have said before, Alclad
should be allowed to do its job. If one will look inside the wings of a
C172, one can see what the alclad does. One will find small white
splotches all over the insides of the wings. This is OK because it protects
the alloy . However, I'd let my wing skins lay flat over my work area for
about three years because I had a job that got in the way of my project.
During that period, the edges of the plastic raised in several places along
the edges of the sheets. Sweating on the roof of my metal building dripped
onto that area. Little did I know that corrosion had set up on the skins.
When I removed the plastic to use the skins, I had quite a bit of corrosion
on a couple of my skins. I had to use an aluminum cleaner and Scotchbrite
to remove the corrosion and promptly applied some primer to help protect
them. It wasn't the plastic, other than its lifting to give mosture
opportunity to get in. It was the water dripping off the metal roof that
got it started. Fortunately, I was able to save mine from total
destruction; but, it could have been worse had I been away from the project
much longer.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 80
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| Subject: | Projects, Projects |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Long -- so delete now...its mostly rambling stuff anyway !
The number of 'repeat offenders," - that is, folks who build second or more
RV's are quietly afflicted with the love of building. In my case I just
keep doing things to the one and only RV I probably will ever undertake.
The latest (in a long line of additions/changes) undertaking was to make an
entire new instrument panel, so that I could incorporate an electronic
tachometer, and also move my Nav-Aid control head and some other instruments
from the vertical support column that holds the throttle, etc, into the main
panel.
I also decided to re-do as much of the electrical wiring that I could on the
pilot's side of the firewall and make it neater (and hopefully less of a
spider's web.)
That's a fairly involved undertaking it self, even without builder-induced
errors or accidents. I had several.
The first problem was a broken slide-in receptacle for the transceiver...had
to pay $84 to get a used tray so I could remove the 50-cent plastic plug at
the rear to replace the broken one. Wow! I'm in the wrong business.
The really frustrating part was the final stages...everything was done
except for wiring in the intercom to the transceiver..that went well until
check-out. The microphone circuit was dead. After checking every wire and
plug involved I was ready to give up. As I sat there pondering what to do, I
thought, "What the heck, might as well try another headset...who knows?"
Would you believe? The SoftComm noise cancelling headset that I had been
using for several years decided to die just at this critical point, leading
me to believe I had make some boneheaded error. The mic won't work..the
other headsets in the hangar worked just fine ! (Incidentally, that SoftComm
headset was the THIRD one they supplied me under warranty...they had their
troubles also.)
Anyway, the panel is done, installed, looks great and probably was worth the
time I put on it...I began the day after I got back from LOE3 and just
finished today ! Do we have fun or what?
John at Salida, CO
Message 81
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| Subject: | Re: The natural progresion of lists - was Food Fight, etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
I think Steve Eberhart is right on with his comments.
I for one am very glad that after 20 some odd years of building kits the
same way, Van listened when some young engineer said there is a better way
with CAD/CNC technology. The 10 kit and documentation show what new ideas
can produce. The kit is an absolute pleasure to assemble.
Dick Sipp
RV4 N250DS
RV10 N110DV
Message 82
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| Subject: | Re: RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Jim Cimino wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
>
>There used to be an organization out there called the "Pilot's Bed & Breakfast",
which if you were a member, you agreed to have traveling pilots stay at your
home when they passed through town. I spent some time with these members and
their families on some long trips in the early 90's and really enjoyed it.
Has anyone though of organizing such a group for our fellow RV Pilots? We all
love our RV's and we love to share them with others as well as talk about them.
The thing that made the original organization great was that you had something
in common with people all over the country and you could spend time with
and meet people who you had already something in common. I think us RV drivers
have a lot in common and I always enjoy meeting new people. I stayed with individuals
from St. Louis to Los Angeles and really had a great time, and saved
some money too. The only expense in the organization was for a yearly catalog
which listed members contact information. With th!
>e web, I think this could easily be done without any expense.
>Anyone interested?
>
>James Cimino
>RV-8 SN 80039
>100+ Hours
>570-842-4057
>http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
>
try:
http://www.vansairforce.net/rvtravelpages.htm
or
http://www.vansairforce.net/
& scroll down to RV Hotel.
If you are passing through Mississippi, give us a call.
Charlie
Message 83
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| Subject: | Re: RE: New anti-corrosion policy from Van's? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "R. Craig Chipley" <mechtech81@yahoo.com>
List, The basics of corrosion is that every metal is
trying to revert to its natural state as soon as it is
made. The Alclad just makes it harder to do so. If
moisture is between the plastic cover and the metal,
then the white powder of corrosion will follow.
--- sshah@shreyans.info wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: sshah@shreyans.info
>
> My goodness! This message sent shiver down my spine.
> I thought the Van's says
> that the alclad is good enough to deter corrosion
> and it's not necessary to
> primer the alclad parts. Then, how can the skins get
> corroded! even if there
> was dampness on the skin. I primer all internal
> parts but the outer surfaces
> are all exposed and will be till I get to the final
> paint. I've stored the
> completed empennage parts in basement which is kind
> of dry environment but
> still exposed to all the condensation & moisture in
> the air. I'll shoot myself
> if when I get the fuselage done few years down the
> road and find that the
> empennage is all corroded. Does everybody take some
> special measures to reduce
> the humidity in the storage area? Do you coat the
> skins with something before
> storage to avoid corrosion? Any input would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Shreyans
>
>
> > Subject: New anti-corrosion policy from
> Van's?
> > From: Kevin Behrent
> (kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com)
> > Date: Tue Nov 18 - 11:58 AM
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent
> <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
> >
> > Just got started on my wing kit and found that I
> will have to buy a
> > complete set of wing skins before I get started
> due to corrosion.
> >
> > I've had both my emp & wing kit for a couple of
> years and haven't really
> > worked on the kits for a variety of reasons.
> Recently, I have gotten the
> > time and motivation to finish it. With emp done, I
> started on the wings
> > and had them ready for debur/dimple/priming when I
> started to peel the
> > plastic back to reveal what wasn't so apparent
> through the plastic. A
> > corrosion nightmare!
> >
> > Yeah, I had the kit for a couple of years, but it
> was stored in a dry
> > space and the emp kit sat just as long with no
> corrosion at all (plastic
> > still on!). After soliciting opinions/suggestions
> from several builders
> > in my chapter (EAA 326 - great chapter!!), I had
> the local FAA guy (also
> > a chapter member) come by and render the final
> fatal verdict. After a
> > close inspection, it appears that the plastic
> coating may have been
> > applied when the wing skins were damp since the
> corrosion is not only on
> > the edge, but everywhere.
> >
> > I called Van's today to beg for mercy and it was
> decided that I would
> > bring back the skins for their review and hopeful
> exchange (does not
> > appear likely). They did make a interesting
> comment that I suspect that
> > none of you have ever heard from them and the
> reason I am risking
> > getting flamed from our resident flamer(s). That
> is, why didn't I remove
> > the plastic "immediately" after
> receiving/inventoring the kit? Well,
> > that was news to me. Certainly I knew not to store
> in a wet/damp
> > environment, but it hadn't occurred to me that a
> dry environment was
> > just as bad.
> >
> > So builders beware, I guess the new Van's policy
> when receiving your
> > kit is to inventory and IMMEDIATELY remove ALL
> plastic coatings from
> > surfaces. While your admiring the pretty blue
> plastic after you've
> > carefully/skillfully/patiently removed the plastic
> where you'll be
> > riveting; leaving the remainder thinking you are
> protecting the surface
> > from scratches, it's corroding away leaving only
> the scratches from the
> > area that you DID peel the plastics!
> >
> > Do not archive.
> >
> > --
> > Kevin Behrent
> > rv-9a - wings
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 84
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| Subject: | tip-up rear window fit |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@earthlink.net>
I have the rear window on my RV-6A tip-up close to its final size, but not yet
drilled to the F-674 skin or the roll bar. When I clamp it in place I notice that
it lays flat along the top of the roll bar, but along the sides of the roll
bar, there is about 1/16" gap between the forward edge of the plexi and the
surface of the roll bar. There the plexi contacts the roll bar only at its aft
edge.
When you think of the geometry of the situation, it seems to me that this is inescapable.
The roll bar is built square, that is, the part that the plexi lays
on is perpendicular to the bar's forward and aft faces. But the plexi tapers
towards the back the same way the fuselage does. Since the roll bar is slanted
back, its top edge is tilted at an angle that matches the angle of the plexi,
but the tilt does almost nothing to change the angle that the sides make to
the plexi.
I never noticed noticed this gap on other planes before, but it seems like it's
designed in. I guess one solution would be to cut the forward edge of the window
back further. Right now it is trimmed to put its forward edge 3/8" back
from the forward face of the roll bar - as the plan require.
Have other people seen the same effect? How have you dealt with it?
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A
Message 85
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| Subject: | RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe Hine" <joehine@rogers.com>
Jim
Doug Reeves has such a thing on his web site, he doesn't promote it too much
but it is there with a list of Rvers who are willing to put up others. His
site is
http://www.vansairforce.net/
select RV hotel from the menu on the left.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Cimino
Subject: RV-List: RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
There used to be an organization out there called the "Pilot's Bed &
Breakfast", which if you were a member, you agreed to have traveling pilots
stay at your home when they passed through town. I spent some time with
these members and their families on some long trips in the early 90's and
really enjoyed it. Has anyone though of organizing such a group for our
fellow RV Pilots? We all love our RV's and we love to share them with
others as well as talk about them. The thing that made the original
organization great was that you had something in common with people all over
the country and you could spend time with and meet people who you had
already something in common. I think us RV drivers have a lot in common and
I always enjoy meeting new people. I stayed with individuals from St. Louis
to Los Angeles and really had a great time, and saved some money too. The
only expense in the organization was for a yearly catalog which listed
members contact information. With th!
e web, I think this could easily be done without any expense.
Anyone interested?
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
Message 86
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| Subject: | Re: RV-Pilot Bed & Breakfast? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
High time you got acquainted with Doug Reeves.
http://65.219.228.161/rvtravelpages.htm
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
>
> There used to be an organization out there called the "Pilot's Bed &
Breakfast", which if you were a member, you agreed to have traveling pilots
stay at your home when they passed through town. I spent some time with
these members and their families on some long trips in the early 90's and
really enjoyed it. Has anyone though of organizing such a group for our
fellow RV Pilots? We all love our RV's and we love to share them with
others as well as talk about them. The thing that made the original
organization great was that you had something in common with people all over
the country and you could spend time with and meet people who you had
already something in common. I think us RV drivers have a lot in common and
I always enjoy meeting new people. I stayed with individuals from St. Louis
to Los Angeles and really had a great time, and saved some money too. The
only expense in the organization was for a yearly catalog which listed
members contact information. With th!
> e web, I think this could easily be done without any expense.
> Anyone interested?
>
> James Cimino
> RV-8 SN 80039
> 100+ Hours
> 570-842-4057
> http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
>
Message 87
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| Subject: | RV10 Tail kit Atlanta area? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael D. Crowe" <tripacer@bellsouth.net>
Does anyone in the Atlanta GA area have an RV10 tail kit I could come look
at?
Thank You
Mike Crowe
RV8A wings
Message 88
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| Subject: | Re: OT: Can I make this engine work in my -8 somehow? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <chrisw3@cox.net>
Phil N wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" <pnewlon@toosan.com>
>
> I don't think the battery in the tail will help much with the CG
> though. The wife might complain about the fuel burn, too.
>
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
If you consider how big of a battery you are going to need to spin the starter
motor on that engine, I think you would just need to extend the tail a little
to get the CG in line :) What I want to know is how many horse power is the
starter motor for that engine. That is one stat they didn't give on that web
page.
do not archive
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw@programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Message 89
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--> RV-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
Hi guys,
I'm looking for a RV friendly airport in the vicinity of the Wright reenactment
December 17th. If the weather cooperates I would rather take the RV instead
of an airliner. It takes 6 1/2 hours travel time by airliner, not counting the
extra time you need to be there early, and 3 1/2 hours air time by RV from Michigan.
I already have tickets, ground transportation and hotel.
Thanks,
Dave
RV-6
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Message 90
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--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Wonder what the pitch and diameter of the prop would be to get airborne at
the blinding RPM of 102. 8*) Kabong Do not archive
---- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W" <chrisw3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: OT: Can I make this engine work in my -8 somehow?
I don't think the battery in the tail will help much with the CG
though. The wife might complain about the fuel burn, too.
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
If you consider how big of a battery you are going to need to spin the
starter
motor on that engine, I think you would just need to extend the tail a
little
to get the CG in line :) What I want to know is how many horse power is the
starter motor for that engine. That is one stat they didn't give on that
web
page.
Message 91
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| Subject: | Re: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
warning! stupidity ahead! delete now
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re-Food Fights, questions, and do not archive
Linn Walters responded:
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Jim Jewell wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >To everyone like me on this list that can not always resist the
temptation
> >to jump directly out of a lack of information, directly into a forgone
> >conclusion without using the dreaded "do not archive".
> >
> You mean me? ;-)
If the shoe fits you get to go to the ball. ;)
>
> >What ever happened to the once common adage that suggested; People who
live
> >in glass houses should not throw stones?:
> >
> Well, after Hurricane Andrew, the state decreed that glass houses had to
> withstand 150 MPH winds, and with the large surface area ...... never
> said anything about flames, though. so, all glass houses have to be
> equipped with shutters that can withstand a 2X4 hurled point on, fired
> from a CO2 gun ..... like Momma nature has them! Oops, I just jumped
> too soon!!! :-D
Ah-Ha! you learned something already Grasshopper, you can now recognize when
you have jumped too soon! With more effort and some luck you will master not
jumping untill the time is right!! 8-)
>
> >With just a bit of experience with the use of a computer keyboard and
some
> >spare time on the web, anyone!, from anywhere in the world!, can enter
the
> >RV-List archives house of mirrors and see clearly into even the darkest
of
> >it's corners.
> >
> Aah, I'm sceptical. I've been in the house of mirrors and all I saw was
> many copies of myself. Scary, really scary! :-P
>
I can relate, I get a simular effect when I look into the threeway mirror in
the morning. YIKES!!! 8-|
> >Once again I will point out that by entering your own name into the
rv-list
> >archives search box you to can peruse all that you have said over the
years.
> >That is of course with the exclusion of the times that you did, wisely or
> >not, elect to use the by now infamous Do Not Archive while posting.
> >
> Well, there were a few posts that I didn't do that. So flog me. I
> love it. I thrive on pain. Which is why I'm going to assemble a bunch
> of little parts to make one big part .... an RV-10.
Aw heck! you got me there, I'm only building a 6-A. B-[ ..but mine is
allmost done, HA!!
>
> >Regardless of your position re-the current flap, or some other emotion
> >grabbing future issue:
> >
> Hey, you're a quick learner .... no 'irregardless'???
indubitably.
>
> > If you are overcome with the need to respond or otherwise jump into
this,
> >that or another one of these topics or any future inevitable out of
context
> >"food fights";
> >
> >First try entering your own name in the archive search box.
> >
> Well, I'm new so thankfully there aren't as many as others!!! I didn't
> know about the DNA message. I plead ignorance or insanity. Ok, both.
Rest assured Grasshopper, newness does not last.
>
> > If you are judgmentally satisfied with your own past behavior on the
list
> >and are not in the least a bit humbled by what you find there? You will
most
> >likely feel inclined to carry on and provide the list with yet another
bit
> >of well thought out wisdom without the need for the use of the famous Do
Not
> >Archive.
> >
> Hopefully. I really want to contribute something meaningful, but this
> 'food fight' thing has been fun. I hope everyone sees it as an attempt
> at humor. It was meant that way.
You already have, I don't know about the rest of the listers but you got me
laughing, thanks! g-}
>
> >About stupid questions;
> > For most of us the stupid questions we asked in the past have put us
into
> >the position of being able to ask much more highly evolved stupid
questions.
> >
> Now I like this part!!! :-)
Me to, even if I do say so myself .
>
> >Questions that might impress the hell out of all except those whom have
> >traveled the road before us.
> >
> This is what makes lists so great! I love it!!! You get answers to
> your stupid questions (yeah, I know there aren't any .... just stupid
> answers!) and if you can remember the answers, you impress the newbies
> with your knowledge! We have self-perpetuating experts! I wanna be one
> of those!!! Is it OK if I read all the posts and then, when asked, post
> the answers as my own??? Nah, that won't work. My memory isn't that
> good. Poo. I had hopes! :-(
Be calm grasshopper, in time the mists will clear.
>
> >There is hope.
> >
> Oh, thank goodness! :-)
Darn tootin!
>
> >The list has a way of surviving these bad riveting days.
> >
> Love the metaphor. But maybe you're serious. Are there bad riveting
> days? Will I get infected??? Is there a cure?
Yeah, but you are not gonna like it. Total withdrawal,.. cold turkey!...
cancel all orders, sell all parts and the Tools as well!!! ..... Well, what
can I say?, sometimes life is just too Damn hard!
>
> >If you have read this far and are not yet amused at the tongue in cheek
> >intent herein.
> >
> Wait! You mean you're not serious??? This is all a scam??? I'm
> confused. How do we know what's serious and what's not? It's not in
> the archives! ARRRGH!!! :-[
I hated to have to break it to ya, YUP! smoke and mirrors, just smoke and
mirrors.
>
> > There is but one thing I might suggest;
> >
> Ah, comes the knowledge!
>
> >Go back to the shop and work on your airplane, {(;-)!
> >
> But it's not here yet!!! I'm in limbo! Maybe I can go practice
> riveting on someone elses plane 'till mine gets here!
Gee's grasshopper,!?? Confusious never said dick all about having to wait
for an RV 10 kit to arrive.
I guess your supposed to be patient or ?! er..? ah.... have another beer!?
>
> >Jim in Kelowna Oh!. and,... DO NOT ARCHIVE (;-)
> >
> Thanks Jim, and thanks for the DNA. I'll plant it at a murder scene ....
> Linn (smokin' keyboard) Walters in ..... the witness protection program.
>
Always happy to help.
Don't forget you must leave the ball before 12:00 !!! OH!, and for God
sakes don't smoke the keyboard! the kit will get there and you'll need it to
ask more questions.
These youngsters nowadays will smoke Anything!
How the hell would yah light one anyhow!? mumble..... grumble..... haack,..
patewy.
>
>
Message 92
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| Subject: | Remote control winch |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Electrical departments in places like Home Depot sell remote control
light switches. I think one of these would do the job for you. I used
one once to replace a lost remote for my garage door opener.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
(snip)
>Where can I buy something like a garage door remote
>control that I could use to replace the extension wire.
Message 93
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|
| Subject: | Re: Air screw..... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
If Hartzell makes that prop, will it have a continuous use RPM restriction
at 95 RPM through to 97.5 RPM???
Jim in Kelowna
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: Air screw.....
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Wonder what the pitch and diameter of the prop would be to get airborne at
> the blinding RPM of 102. 8*) Kabong Do not archive
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris W" <chrisw3@cox.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: OT: Can I make this engine work in my -8 somehow?
>
>
> I don't think the battery in the tail will help much with the CG
> though. The wife might complain about the fuel burn, too.
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
>
> If you consider how big of a battery you are going to need to spin the
> starter
> motor on that engine, I think you would just need to extend the tail a
> little
> to get the CG in line :) What I want to know is how many horse power is
the
> starter motor for that engine. That is one stat they didn't give on that
> web
> page.
>
>
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