Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:04 AM - Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME (Jim Streit)
2. 05:09 AM - Painting slider rail. (Dana Overall)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (Charles Rowbotham)
4. 05:38 AM - Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME (Charles Rowbotham)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (David Burton)
6. 06:18 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (a flyer)
7. 06:18 AM - Re: Painting slider rail (Rick Galati)
8. 07:07 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (Stein Bruch)
9. 07:10 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (linn walters)
10. 07:19 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (C J Heitman)
11. 07:47 AM - Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME (Jeff Orear)
12. 07:54 AM - ACS Bad 8.8 oz BID cloth (John Mcmahon)
13. 08:08 AM - Re: reamers (DAVID REEL)
14. 09:51 AM - graftable ram air inlet (Dan Checkoway)
15. 09:57 AM - Re: Heater question? LONG (Garry Legare)
16. 10:52 AM - Thanks (Kosta Lewis)
17. 11:59 AM - Re: Painting slider rail. (Randy Lervold)
18. 12:17 PM - Whine (Wheeler North)
19. 12:19 PM - Re: graftable ram air inlet (Cy Galley)
20. 12:41 PM - Re: Thanks (kempthornes)
21. 12:50 PM - Re: graftable ram air inlet (Doug Rozendaal)
22. 01:46 PM - Flop tube - time to install (Mark Antenbring)
23. 02:42 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Doug Rozendaal)
24. 03:19 PM - NOW WHO DID YOU SAY WAS "AWOL' ? (JOHN STARN)
25. 03:42 PM - Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6 ()
26. 03:48 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Stein Bruch)
27. 04:04 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Paul Besing)
28. 04:16 PM - Mini ACM :-) 11/26/03 (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
29. 04:27 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Cy Galley)
30. 04:38 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Boyd Braem)
31. 04:40 PM - Re: graftable ram air inlet (Joe Hine)
32. 04:43 PM - Re: Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6 (Ron Burnett)
33. 04:51 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Boyd Braem)
34. 05:32 PM - Anodizing (Dana Overall)
35. 05:45 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (C. Rabaut)
36. 06:32 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (linn walters)
37. 06:44 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Doug Rozendaal)
38. 07:17 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Ken Cantrell)
39. 07:58 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (linn walters)
40. 08:01 PM - Re: NOW WHO DID YOU SAY WAS "AWOL' ? (Don Diehl)
41. 08:46 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Rob Prior)
42. 08:50 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Jerry Springer)
43. 08:51 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (Larry Pardue)
44. 09:27 PM - Galls WigWag - Slow it Down? (Michael J. Robbins)
45. 09:44 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (linn walters)
46. 09:49 PM - Re: Flop tube - time to install (linn walters)
47. 10:34 PM - Re: Parachute (was Flop tube - time to install). (Stein Bruch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net>
Congratulations Chris on a job well done. The airplane looks really good and I'm
sure that you can't wait to get back in the air again. How about posting more
pictures of your bird when you get a chance. Have fun, enjoy and be careful.
Jim Streit
90073
fuse
C J Heitman wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
>
>I'm delighted to report that my RV-9A, N94ME, flew for the first time today.
>Everything was just about perfect. The only squawk was that the prop
>governor (McCauley) seemed a little too sensitive. The useable range only
>requires about 1/2" of travel on the prop control. I've posted a few more
>details about the first flights and some pictures here:
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>I would like to thank Matt Dralle for providing this forum and the RV
>Listers who freely share their knowledge. I'm certain the insights gained
>here contributed to today's successful outcome (yes, I did make my
>last-minute contribution to the list today).
>
>I would also like to thank test pilot Rick Vichich for making the first two
>flights before handing the airplane over to the low-time builder-pilot for
>the day's third flight. EAA Flight Advisor Jerry Thorpe and Technical
>Councilors Ron Scott and Fred Keip deserve special recognition as do the
>other members of EAA Chapters 18 and 1177 who were always willing to lend a
>hand or offer advice. Good friend Quinn Fiske handled the rivet gun in those
>areas that couldn't be riveted solo. Most importantly, I would like to thank
>my patient wife, Carla, for her help when an extra hand was needed in the
>workshop, for moral support and for looking the other way when the Visa
>statement arrived each month.
>
>Lastly, I want to thank Van's Aircraft for a great design and a fantastic
>kit.
>
>It's difficult to put into words the feeling of accomplishment that I am
>feeling right now. After nearly 4 years of effort, I can now clearly see
>that this labor of love was worth every minute.
>
>Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day and this year I have something very special to
>be thankful for.
>
>Chris Heitman
>Builder #90025
>Dousman WI
>RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>---
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you
consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
kind of penetrant??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Dana,
We painted the rail the same color as our interior - then put a strip of
Black 3M stair tred over it. The purpose of the stair tred was to provide
traction when the rail is damp or wet. Has worked well.
One note do not roll the 3M tape onto the inside of the cockpit - it will
rebub against your leather jacket or skin (not good).
Good Building,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Painting slider rail.
>Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:09:49 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>
>First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you
>consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
>
>I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
>fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
>slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
>
>Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
>kind of penetrant??
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>do not archive
>
>Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
>online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
>
>
Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free
parking. http://shopping.msn.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Chris,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck and Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME
>Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:01:06 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
>
>I'm delighted to report that my RV-9A, N94ME, flew for the first time
>today.
>Everything was just about perfect. The only squawk was that the prop
>governor (McCauley) seemed a little too sensitive. The useable range only
>requires about 1/2" of travel on the prop control. I've posted a few more
>details about the first flights and some pictures here:
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>>
>Chris Heitman
>Builder #90025
>Dousman WI
>RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment,
video game reviews, and more here.
http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Mike Robbins anodized the slider rails on his beautiful RV-8. It's the
first thing you notice when you look in the cockpit. It really gives the
rail a finished look. The anodizing can be done in almost any color.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Painting slider rail.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>
> First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you
> consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
>
> I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
> fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
> slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
>
> Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
> kind of penetrant??
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> Finish kit
> Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
> online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: a flyer <aflyer@direcway.com>
Dana, I had my rails black anodized. There is a variety called hard black
anodize that is very tough. It will be flat black if you scotchbrite it, or
shiny black if you polish it first.
John Huft
Pagosa Springs RV8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Painting slider rail.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>
> First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you
> consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
>
> I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
> fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
> slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
>
> Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
> kind of penetrant??
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> Finish kit
> Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
> online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail |
HTML_FONTCOLOR_RED@matronics.com, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE@matronics.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Dana,
You know how sometimes you go to someones website and are instantly struck by an
ingenious technique? An RV builder somewhere in Canada, I wish I could recall
his name and give him resounding credit had many of his canopy parts including
the slider rails, gold anodized. I had the same thing done with outstanding
results but upon reflection if I had it to do over, and for strictly enhanced
cosmetic reasons, I would have gone with a gloss black anodized treatment.
The company that does that work here in St. Louis also does extensive military
work. They charged me $90 for a one-time set-up bath. They even included the
documentation only the government loves. Whether you bring in one part or twenty
parts, as long as they fit in one basket, the cost is the same. Anodizing
can be done in a variety of colors, but if you have the work done, be sure the
parts are blemish free because the anodize will not obscure the slightest scratch
like a coat of paint will.
Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
Subject: Painting slider rail.From: Dana Overall (bo124rs@hotmail.com)Date:
Thu Nov 27 - 5:09 AM
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>First of all
Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you consume today counts
to gross weight for a couple days:-)I would really like not to leave a polished
piece of alum on the top of my fuselage. I am going to assume that black
Imron would look nice on the slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple
times.Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
kind of penetrant??Dana Overall
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Message 8
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| Subject: | Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Dana,
I painted the rails black on both my -6's. One if flying with 150+ hrs and
has no scratches on it. I placed some UHMW tape on it where anything might
touch to keep from scratching. I have plenty of UHMW for sale if you want
some!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RV-List: Painting slider rail.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you
consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
kind of penetrant??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Dana Overall wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>
>First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you
>consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
>
>I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
>fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
>slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
>
>Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
>kind of penetrant??
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>do not archive
>
I'm not familiar with the 7 so can't answer specifically. There isn't a
'stain' for aluminum like there is for steel. As soon as there's a
shiny spot, it will corrode. That surface corrosion is there
immediately, and is one thing that makes aluminum so hard to weld.
Clean steel is porous (for a little while) and the aluminum is not.
But, on to your question. If the piece is removeable, you may be able
to have it black anodized. I'm thinking that the piece is probably large
and riveted in, so that's not a good solution. You could paint it black
(again) and cover the offending area with a heavy mylar tape, such as is
used on prop and wing leading edges. This would give the offending
piece something to slide on besides the paint. The other solution would
be to put the tape on the sliding part so that it doesn't rub directly
on the paint. Just some quick ideas.
Linn
Message 10
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| Subject: | Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
Dana, I had my rails black anodized using the standard process (not hard
anodized). After nearly two years of dragging air hoses and extension cords
over them (not to mention the clumsy builder climbing over them about 10,000
times) they still look like new. However, I'm sure that hard anodizing would
be even better. You can see the rails in some of the pictures on this page:
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/interior.html
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
--> RV-List message posted by: a flyer <aflyer@direcway.com>
Dana, I had my rails black anodized. There is a variety called hard black
anodize that is very tough. It will be flat black if you scotchbrite it, or
shiny black if you polish it first.
John Huft
Pagosa Springs RV8
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
> fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
> slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
>
> Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
> kind of penetrant??
>
> Dana Overall
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Chris:
Congratulations!!! Fly it up to Marinette/Menominee (MNM) sometime. I
could use some motivation once in awhile!
Score one for the Cheeseheads!!
Do Not Archive
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
canopy skirts
Pesthigo, WI
Message 12
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| Subject: | ACS Bad 8.8 oz BID cloth |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Mcmahon <rv6@earthlink.net>
Head's up Boy's & Girl's
Have found out that ACS sent out some defective 8.8 oz Bi-directional
cloth #RA7725
page 30 in ACS cat..The symptom is that the cloth is to stiff,it will
not go around the
compound curves like it should!! Called ACS and they said that they
shipped out
some defective cloth,and sent me another order right away,with a return
ARS label
to return the old cloth..
John McMahon (Close to Paint) RV6
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
Chesapeake Distributing 703-704-6544, has everything for the tool & die trade.
Tell them Dave sent you & they'll say who?
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 14
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| Subject: | graftable ram air inlet |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my RV-7
IO smooth bottom cowl.
Long story:
On my RV-7 with IO-360-A1B6 (fwd facing sump) and Airflow Performance
injection, I found that the stock IO filtered airbox from Van's (cornucopia
from the square K&N filter on the left baffle down to the fuel controller
barrel), didn't fit worth diddly. The real issue is that the FM-200
controller (Airflow Performance, not Bendix) is bigger and longer than the
Bendix. It comes much further forward than "stock." Also, the throat is
much larger, and there's no flat flange to secure the bottom of the FAB to.
I've brought all of this up before, and this time I'm just laying it all out
for context. Here's where I'm at...
I'd really like to integrate ram air system into my intake. A valve/door
operated system that would utilize filtered air down low, where particulate
ingestion would be undesirable, and it would utilize direct, unfiltered ram
air above some altitude I determine appropriate depending on conditions. I
had ram air systems in my Mooneys, and they worked well to boost manifold
pressure (more speed! more speed!) when you open that sucker up at altitude.
I know Van says in his FAB install doc that he tried ram air with minimal
success. I've taken that into consideration, but I believe a well-designed
system will function very well. You can't tell me that all those HR's out
there with ram air aren't gaining inches and resulting performance from
their ram air setups.
Airflow Performance sells a pre-fab "alternate air intake" system, which is
basically a tube that mates up with the FM-200, with a little side offshoot
tube designed either to have a filter mount directly on it, or to take input
from a filter located elsewhere. I would either buy this system from AFP,
or I would fabricate my own as many people have done with success. I think
that's probably the easy part.
As for the INLET in the cowl, however, that's where my question lies today.
I'm wondering if the Harmon Rocket folks out there, or maybe the Sam James
folks out there, (or whoever) can point me in the right direction. What I'm
looking for is an inlet...either round like the Sam James setup, or "smiley"
like the HR setup...that I can "graft" onto my Van's RV-7 IO cowling with
minimal fuss & muss. I'm trying to avoid having to mold anything like this
from scratch, because I'm a fiberglass/epoxy newbie to say the least! I'd
like it to be at least 3" to 3.5" ID, nice and radiused, interface well with
scat on the inside, or be able to airseal right up to the barrel, etc.
Can anybody point me at a source for a pre-fab graftable inlet that would
work as an under-spinner-area ram air inlet?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Heater question? LONG |
--> RV-List message posted by: Garry Legare <versadek@earthlink.net>
Hey Laird,
As you know I've been playing with this for a while. I've tried:
1.- Shark Gill slits just in front of flaps, they reduced the volume of
air, but not completely. May leave them on, need to tuft test them, but
my camera ship was down for a while so the jury is still out.
2.- Ramped outlet on the bottom of fuselage. Worked great, except at
slower speeds (approach to landing, stalls etc.) airflow reversed and
brought with it lots of exhaust gases.
3.- Rear facing scoop on outside of fuselage just behind cabin (won't
work with slider). Worked great until I put in the required insect
screen which reduced the effective area and now there is a slight tail
pressure bias and the CO with it.
Andrea and I have spent hours with a really good CO detector finding
the source, and it is definitely the tail. I've had foam wedges on the
bulkhead wall for a couple of years and they help, but the air is still
coming in around the elevator tube hole and every other penetration.
I believe the solution is to stop the air at the source and that's what
I'll be playing with over the next few weeks.
Right know the aircraft is down for maintenance:
Replacing cracked fab mount plate (hairline cracks by the two back bolt
holes) even though the plate edges where highly polished, the cracks
started in mid section, not near the radius, and my cowl to fab box
connection is much more isolated then most RVs, go figure.
Replacing tab washers with drilled head bolts, that's when I discovered
above.
Installing Vans air box flapper mod (alternate air).
And last but not least reinstalling my upgraded Whirl Wind prop with the
latest (151) blades, supposedly 5 to 7 MPH faster. So we should get
together one of these day and do another comparison. Last time you were
2 to 3 MPH faster, so we should be able to see if Whirl Wind is full of
do-do or not. Take care and have a great Thanksgiving.
Casper.
Laird Owens wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
>
>Garry,
>
>To change the subject a little, what did you do to reduce the volume
>of air that comes in from the tail cone? I remember some testing you
>did, but don't seem to remember the final results.
>
>snip
>
I can change the altitude by 20' or so by opening or closing the
>vents. Not surprising, but it is interesting.
>
>Laird
>
>=======
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
A lot to think about today with the smell of pumpkin pie and turkey
drifting around in the house.
Among my many blessings: I am thankful for my dad taking me to the
airport back on a November 22, MANY years ago and letting me take my
first flying lesson. I am most thankful for my flight instructor, Larry,
who several years later taught me about flying and, in the process, life
in general. I am thankful for the ol' J-3 that Larry convinced me get as
he said that was the only way to really learn how to fly: have your own
airplane. He was right. And I'm still learning from her. I am thankful
for Van deciding he needed to design a few really good airplanes for us.
I am thankful for the ability I had to be able to build one of the best
designed airplanes in the air and for Kelli, my best girl, who is a
master with the rivet gun and bucking bar. I am thankful for the ability
I was given to be able to fly this wonderful machine we built. First
flight was November 24, 1997 and it has been one of the best flying
airplanes I have had the pleasure to fly. Thanks, Suzie Q. I am thankful
that I live in a country where the skies are for the most part open to
what ever direction I have the inclination to go. I am very thankful for
those wonderful people in our armed services that keep those skies open
and free.
That's only a small sampling of what I am thankful for that will keep me
smiling for at least the rest of today and then some..........
Not that we need Thanksgiving to think about this stuff, but it's kind
of nice to sit back and think of it all..........
Thanks,
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Thanks for this list and the people on it, too, by the way. Even the
occasional grouch..........
Do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Ditto on the hard anodizing, and I think seeing mine influenced Mike. Here's
a pic...
http://www.rv-8.com/Pictures/Mvc-528x.jpg
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting slider rail.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>
> Mike Robbins anodized the slider rails on his beautiful RV-8. It's the
> first thing you notice when you look in the cockpit. It really gives the
> rail a finished look. The anodizing can be done in almost any color.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Painting slider rail.
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> > First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what
you
> > consume today counts to gross weight for a couple days:-)
> >
> > I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of
my
> > fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
> > slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
> >
> > Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with
some
> > kind of penetrant??
> >
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY
> > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > Finish kit
> > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
> > Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
> > online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Well,
I have been resisting making a contribution because I already have all the
cool gifts that can come with the donation. And what I really wanted was the
fuel flow pulsation damper instead.
So I gave up my whiney mood and donated and ordered what I wanted....
thanks Matt, information is everything,
Question 1, does the damper's inlet tube extend into it some so that a
negative g manuever won't purge the bubble?
Question 2, will it work on either side of the transducer, or is one
prefered over the other. My inlet side is limited in line space, so I may
have to reboot and redo the whole section of the system if it needs to be
there.
thx
W
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: graftable ram air inlet |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
When you get done, I doubt if you will even add an inch of MP especially
after friction losses. Check to see what pressure an airpeed needs to
indicate 200 MPH. You will be surprised.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: graftable ram air inlet
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my
RV-7
> IO smooth bottom cowl.
>
> Long story:
>
> On my RV-7 with IO-360-A1B6 (fwd facing sump) and Airflow Performance
> injection, I found that the stock IO filtered airbox from Van's
(cornucopia
> from the square K&N filter on the left baffle down to the fuel controller
> barrel), didn't fit worth diddly. The real issue is that the FM-200
> controller (Airflow Performance, not Bendix) is bigger and longer than the
> Bendix. It comes much further forward than "stock." Also, the throat is
> much larger, and there's no flat flange to secure the bottom of the FAB
to.
>
> I've brought all of this up before, and this time I'm just laying it all
out
> for context. Here's where I'm at...
>
> I'd really like to integrate ram air system into my intake. A valve/door
> operated system that would utilize filtered air down low, where
particulate
> ingestion would be undesirable, and it would utilize direct, unfiltered
ram
> air above some altitude I determine appropriate depending on conditions.
I
> had ram air systems in my Mooneys, and they worked well to boost manifold
> pressure (more speed! more speed!) when you open that sucker up at
altitude.
>
> I know Van says in his FAB install doc that he tried ram air with minimal
> success. I've taken that into consideration, but I believe a
well-designed
> system will function very well. You can't tell me that all those HR's out
> there with ram air aren't gaining inches and resulting performance from
> their ram air setups.
>
> Airflow Performance sells a pre-fab "alternate air intake" system, which
is
> basically a tube that mates up with the FM-200, with a little side
offshoot
> tube designed either to have a filter mount directly on it, or to take
input
> from a filter located elsewhere. I would either buy this system from AFP,
> or I would fabricate my own as many people have done with success. I
think
> that's probably the easy part.
>
> As for the INLET in the cowl, however, that's where my question lies
today.
> I'm wondering if the Harmon Rocket folks out there, or maybe the Sam James
> folks out there, (or whoever) can point me in the right direction. What
I'm
> looking for is an inlet...either round like the Sam James setup, or
"smiley"
> like the HR setup...that I can "graft" onto my Van's RV-7 IO cowling with
> minimal fuss & muss. I'm trying to avoid having to mold anything like
this
> from scratch, because I'm a fiberglass/epoxy newbie to say the least! I'd
> like it to be at least 3" to 3.5" ID, nice and radiused, interface well
with
> scat on the inside, or be able to airseal right up to the barrel, etc.
>
> Can anybody point me at a source for a pre-fab graftable inlet that would
> work as an under-spinner-area ram air inlet?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 11:51 AM 11/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
>
>Thanks for this list and the people on it, too, by the way. Even the
>occasional grouch..........
I'm so thankful for the list, my most valuable tool in building Valentine
(N7HK) that I made a contribution!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: graftable ram air inlet |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
When you get a Alt/Static check done, they draw a 1000 ft vacuum on the
static ports and if my memory serves, and often it doesn't, at 1000 ft below
field elevation, the Airspeed indicator will show about 170 mph. 1000 feet
is roughly equal to 1" Hg.
Lopresti claimed to time the pulse of the prop blast to the opening of the
valves, but my guess is that was more marketing than performance. Having
said that, 1" of MP is nothing to be sneezed at, it is a lot of extra power,
it is not free however, that extra air must be mixed with extra gas....
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Do not archive
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> When you get done, I doubt if you will even add an inch of MP especially
> after friction losses. Check to see what pressure an airpeed needs to
> indicate 200 MPH.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
I'm on the fence about installing a flop tube. Considering all the other
disadvantages, I think the deciding factor (for me) will be how many hours
to install. Can someone give me an approximate time for install that's over
an above the stock fuel pick up? I'll be ordering the capacitive senders for
fuel level (if that makes a difference). Here is the advantage/disadvantage
list that's know to me -- feel free to add or correct.
Disadvantages
=============
- higher cost
- more unusable fuel
- more prone to problems (flop tube hanging up etc)
- slightly higher weight
- hours to install?
Advantages
==========
- you get to fly upside down!
Mark A
RV-7 left elevator
Wings on order
Do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted systems.
Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there is
no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
should have a double seat belt system too.)
Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
them at all, and even fewer like them.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
Message 24
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|
"rocket-list" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | NOW WHO DID YOU SAY WAS "AWOL' ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Can you imagine flying over the dark Atlantic as a "boomer" of a tanker
and see the nose of Air Force One emerge from the darkness & show up for
fuel. God, what a feeling that must have been. From placing himself in harms
way to learn to fly a single seat fighter (F-102) to the surprise visit,
AGAIN in harms way, in Baghdad. Thank God we have a warrior in the White
House and not some wimp. Way to go George. I'M NOT sorry if I offend
anyone, that's your problem. Get over it. KABONG
Putting rear seat rudder peddles and power control in HRII N561FS. No prop
or mixture yet.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
I recently inquired to the list of anyone having made baggage modifications to
support large items (golf glubs, etc.). I got a lot of great pictures in email,
and I thought I would share with the bunch:
http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/golf.htm
On another note...anyone out there flying with the new Engenfellner 6 cylinder
(H6)? It sure sounds tempting, and I would be curious to see the performance
data (especially at altitude). A quick search of the archives didn't reveal anything.
THanks,
Scott Haskins
RV7A Wings
http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Just as an addition to Doug's well placed commnents, even with the hookers,
inverted fuel/oil, it's VERY hard to get the seatbelts tight enough for
sustained inverted flight in the Side by Side RV's. The seatbelt geometry
is from behind your waste, so even with them ratcheted down and the crotch
strap tight, you can find yourself "sliding down the seatback" when
inverted. I've done it more than once, but it's not nearly as fun as the
positive stuff anyway. You really don't know how dirty your cockpit is
until you fly sustained negative G's, plus if you don't put EVERYTHING away,
you'll get smacked in the head by your errant chart, fuel tester, or
anything else that is not secured (don't ask me how I know).
As Doug said, most whifferdills that you will do are positive anyway! If I
had it to do again, and I am....I left the flop tube out!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
N664SB - Inverted Fuel/Oil
N64YU - No Inverted Fuel/Oil
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted systems.
Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there is
no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
should have a double seat belt system too.)
Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
them at all, and even fewer like them.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
I would leave it out. If you were building an -8 or a -4 with inverted oil
system, fuel injection or throttle body, and really were into negative G
acro, then yes. If all these other things don't apply, then I wouldn't
waste the time, money, or headache of installing flop tubes. I sent mine
back once I realized it was a waste of time for me. If you have never done
negative G acro, then you probably won't. It's extremely uncomfortable, and
IMHO, is left for the pros. Have fun with all of the positive G stuff you
want.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
Subject: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
<mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
>
> I'm on the fence about installing a flop tube. Considering all the other
> disadvantages, I think the deciding factor (for me) will be how many hours
> to install. Can someone give me an approximate time for install that's
over
> an above the stock fuel pick up? I'll be ordering the capacitive senders
for
> fuel level (if that makes a difference). Here is the
advantage/disadvantage
> list that's know to me -- feel free to add or correct.
>
> Disadvantages
> =============
> - higher cost
> - more unusable fuel
> - more prone to problems (flop tube hanging up etc)
> - slightly higher weight
> - hours to install?
>
> Advantages
> ==========
> - you get to fly upside down!
>
> Mark A
> RV-7 left elevator
> Wings on order
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Mini ACM :-) 11/26/03 |
--> RV-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
dougr@petroblend.com>
writes
A mini ACM,
Let me know when you find one small enough for the RV :-) I"m sure we could
sell them for air conditioning as well in the summer!
Get the price right I'll sell them!
Elbie
EM aviation, LLC
Elbie Mendenhall
President
www.RiteAngle.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I have no experience with Van's flop tube, but the one in the Christen Eagle
used to fail. Had to cut hole in tank to fix.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Just as an addition to Doug's well placed commnents, even with the
hookers,
> inverted fuel/oil, it's VERY hard to get the seatbelts tight enough for
> sustained inverted flight in the Side by Side RV's. The seatbelt geometry
> is from behind your waste, so even with them ratcheted down and the crotch
> strap tight, you can find yourself "sliding down the seatback" when
> inverted. I've done it more than once, but it's not nearly as fun as the
> positive stuff anyway. You really don't know how dirty your cockpit is
> until you fly sustained negative G's, plus if you don't put EVERYTHING
away,
> you'll get smacked in the head by your errant chart, fuel tester, or
> anything else that is not secured (don't ask me how I know).
>
> As Doug said, most whifferdills that you will do are positive anyway! If
I
> had it to do again, and I am....I left the flop tube out!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> N664SB - Inverted Fuel/Oil
> N64YU - No Inverted Fuel/Oil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted
systems.
>
> Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there
is
> no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
> should have a double seat belt system too.)
>
> Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
> them at all, and even fewer like them.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Stein--
That's why (it was in our orders, honest) that we had to do sustained
neg-G flight at least once a month (you could also do it nose-down 90
with burners--tho NATOPS limited the older F-4s to Mach 1.8 and 8 g)
for a "cockpit FOD check"--coins, pens, screwdrivers, little rubber
things, etc. And, your right, that's how you learn to really tighten
those straps up--I dated this woman in college and she always said
"don't tie those straps too loose!"
do not archive
On Thursday, November 27, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Stein Bruch wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Just as an addition to Doug's well placed commnents, even with the
> hookers,
> inverted fuel/oil, it's VERY hard to get the seatbelts tight enough for
> sustained inverted flight in the Side by Side RV's. The seatbelt
> geometry
> is from behind your waste, so even with them ratcheted down and the
> crotch
> strap tight, you can find yourself "sliding down the seatback" when
> inverted. I've done it more than once, but it's not nearly as fun as
> the
> positive stuff anyway. You really don't know how dirty your cockpit is
> until you fly sustained negative G's, plus if you don't put EVERYTHING
> away,
> you'll get smacked in the head by your errant chart, fuel tester, or
> anything else that is not secured (don't ask me how I know).
>
> As Doug said, most whifferdills that you will do are positive anyway!
> If I
> had it to do again, and I am....I left the flop tube out!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> N664SB - Inverted Fuel/Oil
> N64YU - No Inverted Fuel/Oil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | graftable ram air inlet |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe Hine" <joehine@rogers.com>
Dan
How about someone who has an old style cowl bottom that had no provision for
a filter and is changing it to a larger scoop and filter. A friend I fly
with did this last year. He is in Florida for the winter, and I don't think
he monitors the list, but if that is the size you need, I could email and
ask if he still has the ram air scoop he cut off his bottom cowl.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: RV-List: graftable ram air inlet
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my RV-7
IO smooth bottom cowl.
Long story:
On my RV-7 with IO-360-A1B6 (fwd facing sump) and Airflow Performance
injection, I found that the stock IO filtered airbox from Van's (cornucopia
from the square K&N filter on the left baffle down to the fuel controller
barrel), didn't fit worth diddly. The real issue is that the FM-200
controller (Airflow Performance, not Bendix) is bigger and longer than the
Bendix. It comes much further forward than "stock." Also, the throat is
much larger, and there's no flat flange to secure the bottom of the FAB to.
I've brought all of this up before, and this time I'm just laying it all out
for context. Here's where I'm at...
I'd really like to integrate ram air system into my intake. A valve/door
operated system that would utilize filtered air down low, where particulate
ingestion would be undesirable, and it would utilize direct, unfiltered ram
air above some altitude I determine appropriate depending on conditions. I
had ram air systems in my Mooneys, and they worked well to boost manifold
pressure (more speed! more speed!) when you open that sucker up at altitude.
I know Van says in his FAB install doc that he tried ram air with minimal
success. I've taken that into consideration, but I believe a well-designed
system will function very well. You can't tell me that all those HR's out
there with ram air aren't gaining inches and resulting performance from
their ram air setups.
Airflow Performance sells a pre-fab "alternate air intake" system, which is
basically a tube that mates up with the FM-200, with a little side offshoot
tube designed either to have a filter mount directly on it, or to take input
from a filter located elsewhere. I would either buy this system from AFP,
or I would fabricate my own as many people have done with success. I think
that's probably the easy part.
As for the INLET in the cowl, however, that's where my question lies today.
I'm wondering if the Harmon Rocket folks out there, or maybe the Sam James
folks out there, (or whoever) can point me in the right direction. What I'm
looking for is an inlet...either round like the Sam James setup, or "smiley"
like the HR setup...that I can "graft" onto my Van's RV-7 IO cowling with
minimal fuss & muss. I'm trying to avoid having to mold anything like this
from scratch, because I'm a fiberglass/epoxy newbie to say the least! I'd
like it to be at least 3" to 3.5" ID, nice and radiused, interface well with
scat on the inside, or be able to airseal right up to the barrel, etc.
Can anybody point me at a source for a pre-fab graftable inlet that would
work as an under-spinner-area ram air inlet?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Burnett" <smileyburnett@charter.net>
Almost everyone has more knowledge than I as my RV-6A is a long way from
flying yet. It will sport the Eggenfellner 4 cyl. fire wall forward
package. I would be concerned about the effect on C.G. with a set of golf
clubs that far aft.
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6
> --> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
>
>
> All,
>
> I recently inquired to the list of anyone having made baggage
modifications to support large items (golf glubs, etc.). I got a lot of
great pictures in email, and I thought I would share with the bunch:
>
> http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/golf.htm
>
> On another note...anyone out there flying with the new Engenfellner 6
cylinder (H6)? It sure sounds tempting, and I would be curious to see the
performance data (especially at altitude). A quick search of the archives
didn't reveal anything.
>
> THanks,
> Scott Haskins
> RV7A Wings
> http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Stein--
I'm sorry, I didn't read your message close enough the first time. You
really shouldn't fly with hookers in your side-by-side--they can be um,
er, rather distracting, plus, add that up with the fuel cost. And,
besides, when silicone-filled parts start hitting you in the face, it's
a whole other flight problem. Only good for "light IFR".
Boyd.
do not archive
On Thursday, November 27, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Stein Bruch wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Just as an addition to Doug's well placed commnents, even with the
> hookers,
> inverted fuel/oil, it's VERY hard to get the seatbelts tight enough for
> sustained inverted flight in the Side by Side RV's. The seatbelt
> geometry
> is from behind your waste, so even with them ratcheted down and the
> crotch
> strap tight, you can find yourself "sliding down the seatback" when
> inverted. I've done it more than once, but it's not nearly as fun as
> the
> positive stuff anyway. You really don't know how dirty your cockpit is
> until you fly sustained negative G's, plus if you don't put EVERYTHING
> away,
> you'll get smacked in the head by your errant chart, fuel tester, or
> anything else that is not secured (don't ask me how I know).
>
> As Doug said, most whifferdills that you will do are positive anyway!
> If I
> had it to do again, and I am....I left the flop tube out!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> N664SB - Inverted Fuel/Oil
> N64YU - No Inverted Fuel/Oil
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
OK, I was wondering if there was another way to achieve what anodizing does
but it sounds like anodizing is the way to go on the outside slider rail.
I'm painting th inner two rails.
What type of local shops would routinely do anodizing?
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free
parking. http://shopping.msn.com
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Doug,
In my RV-4 I too have fuel injection, inverted oil, and a 5 point
harness, but after installing the secondary (double) seat belt set-up I
removed it for one MAJOR reason.... I found it complicates exiting the
aircraft with my chute, should I need to (in the event of structural failure
& the like). I'll take my chances at ending up sliding around in my canopy
during some strange negative G event, verses having my "exit option"
severely hampered when time will likely be of the essence. I may, in that
case, be departing with the canopy... but at least I will be able to
depart. *IMHO, only.
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr@petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted
systems.
>
> Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there
is
> no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
> should have a double seat belt system too.)
>
> Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
> them at all, and even fewer like them.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Mark Antenbring wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
>
>I'm on the fence about installing a flop tube. Considering all the other
>disadvantages, I think the deciding factor (for me) will be how many hours
>to install. Can someone give me an approximate time for install that's over
>an above the stock fuel pick up? I'll be ordering the capacitive senders for
>fuel level (if that makes a difference). Here is the advantage/disadvantage
>list that's know to me -- feel free to add or correct.
>
First off, I'm going to assume there is no header tank. A header tank
would change things a lot. The other thing is that I'm not real
familiar with the fuel system so my comments will be generic.
>Disadvantages
>=============
>- higher cost
>
But not enough to worry about.
>- more unusable fuel
>
Well, this depends on how you install the flop tube. If you can point
the flop tube fwd/aft instead of out toward the wingtip the difference
will be minimal. Also remember that the tank has dihedral, and that
there are two tanks.
>- more prone to problems (flop tube hanging up etc)
>
Not if installed correctly.
>- slightly higher weight
>
True. The weight will depend on the size of the line, and it's
stiffness. The flop tube weight needs to be heavy enough to bend the
piclup hose.
>- hours to install?
>
A couple of hours increase. You need to mount a fitting in the tank end
large enough for the flop tube weight to pass through. This will enable
you to remove the flop tube for replacement when it gets old and stiff
(just like us!!!)
>Advantages
>==========
>- you get to fly upside down!
>
For a short while. You also need an inverted oil system, unless you're
good enough to keep positive g's all the time, and if you are, than you
don't need the flop tubes anyway!
Linn
>
>Mark A
>RV-7 left elevator
>Wings on order
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Chuck,
First of all, let me say, that I do sustained inverted and get up to -2 "G"s
in my -4 and if someone wants to do that, I would not want to, and apoligize
for, discouraging anyone from that. It is not comfortable, and most pilots
will never need inverted systems.
I think the IAC competitions require double belts, maybe at the higher
levels. Anyone know? You are correct that the second seatbelt would add
some time to a quick exit. My thinking is twofold.
First, low altitude acro (airshow flying, I am thinking about a simple
airshow routine in the -4 nest summer) the chute is of little value, and
catching your cuff on the seatbelt and falling in the canopy could be
deadly. (I know a guy who had this happen on an inverted pass and he will
tell you the second seatbelt is essential)
Secondly, I have a wedge shaped tiny seatpack that fits behind the spar, but
I don't wear it. I probably should, but it I don't fit in the airplane very
well with it, and it is horribly uncomfortable. So as you can see, The
second seatbelt would not have a safety downside for me.
This, just like about everything in aviation is a compromise.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
> --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
> Doug,
>
> In my RV-4 I too have fuel injection, inverted oil, and a 5 point
> harness, but after installing the secondary (double) seat belt set-up I
> removed it for one MAJOR reason.... I found it complicates exiting the
> aircraft with my chute, should I need to
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv@pacbell.net>
I didn't put in a flop tube in my 6 and I don't miss it.
Way back when I was a little whipper snapper, (in the 70's) I flew an S-1C
Pitts that my dad built. It had full inverted fuel and oil and I flew
competition and small time airshows (mostly intermediate stuff) I really
enjoyed it including the outside stuff. I had to leave aviation for 20+
years to do the family thing but now I'm back and enjoying my 6 to the max.
When I built it, I considered putting in a flop tube but I decided not to. I
think the other comments on this topic are right on the money. Even though I
have a five pt. harness, I don't feel the need for negative Gs when I'm
flying my RV. Even though I'm 50, age is not the reason I don't want to hang
from my belt.
The reason I decided to build a 6 is mainly because it did everything very
well. It wasn't the best at any one thing but it did it all very well. There
is no perfect airplane but the RVs are the best blend of the qualities I
desire. When I do aerobatics, (almost every time I go up) I always challenge
myself to be as smooth as I can be and to keep the Gs as low as possible. I
like to share aerobatics with friends but I don't like to scare them. Even
when I flew the family Pitts, I was always concerned with the doing
maneuvers correctly and being kind to the airframe. Loops, rolls and
combinations of these are mostly what I do now and I rarely show less than
zero or more than 3.5 on the G meter. Personally, I don't feel right doing
more than sportsman or intermediate aerobatics in my RV.
On the other hand, I think I will annually do what I did last spring. I
bought an hour's dual with Wayne Handley in his Extra 300L. Now this is an
aerobatic machine! I did tail slides, a rolling 360, multiple snaps inside
and out, square loops etc. (snaps on a vertical down line are my favorite)
We also did his version of a lomcevak which was not near a violent as I
thought it would be. I got my fix that day and for me, this approach is the
way to go.
My suggestion...
If you're really serious about aerobatics, do it in a aerobatic
thoroughbred. If you want to do basic fun aerobatics and go places fast,
take friends and in comfort, you don't need inverted fuel and oil.
...just my opinion
Ken Cantrell
RV6 ~244 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Antenbring" <mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
Subject: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Antenbring
<mantenbring@pangaeainc.com>
>
> I'm on the fence about installing a flop tube. Considering all the other
> disadvantages, I think the deciding factor (for me) will be how many hours
> to install. Can someone give me an approximate time for install that's
over
> an above the stock fuel pick up? I'll be ordering the capacitive senders
for
> fuel level (if that makes a difference). Here is the
advantage/disadvantage
> list that's know to me -- feel free to add or correct.
>
> Disadvantages
> =============
> - higher cost
> - more unusable fuel
> - more prone to problems (flop tube hanging up etc)
> - slightly higher weight
> - hours to install?
>
> Advantages
> ==========
> - you get to fly upside down!
>
> Mark A
> RV-7 left elevator
> Wings on order
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
>Chuck,
>
>First of all, let me say, that I do sustained inverted and get up to -2 "G"s
>in my -4 and if someone wants to do that, I would not want to, and apoligize
>for, discouraging anyone from that. It is not comfortable, and most pilots
>will never need inverted systems.
>
>I think the IAC competitions require double belts, maybe at the higher
>levels. Anyone know? You are correct that the second seatbelt would add
>some time to a quick exit.
>
I do not believe that IAC has any rules for double seatbelts. HOWEVER,
during the safety inspection it may become an issue. My Pitts has dual
belts so was not an issue. I only competed once, many years ago, and
times may have changed, as they usually do.
> My thinking is twofold.
>
>First, low altitude acro (airshow flying, I am thinking about a simple
>airshow routine in the -4 nest summer) the chute is of little value,
>
I've seen a 'chute pulled at 100'. He landed right next to the wreck.
Broke his leg. It's a moot point, though ..... read on
> and
>catching your cuff on the seatbelt and falling in the canopy could be
>deadly. (I know a guy who had this happen on an inverted pass and he will
>tell you the second seatbelt is essential)
>
You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
Section 91.307: parachutes and parachuting.
(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --
(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
>Secondly, I have a wedge shaped tiny seatpack that fits behind the spar, but
>I don't wear it. I probably should, but it I don't fit in the airplane very
>well with it, and it is horribly uncomfortable.
>
So, you either need a new parachute, or a new aerobatic airplane.
> So as you can see, The
>second seatbelt would not have a safety downside for me.
>
Faced with having to leave an airplane, you'll spend more time opening
or ejecting the canopy than you will hitting the belts. Ptroperly
installed, the safety belt is opened with the left hand (the right is
holding the stick) and then the right hand gets the 5-point harness,
because you don't need to hold onto the airplane any longer. No, I
haven't used my parachute, and don't plan to unless I can't control the
airplane anymore. Then, I'll use it imediately, without further thought.
>This, just like about everything in aviation is a compromise.
>
No, it's not. At least the regulations part. They're all reactive,
because someone got killed doing 'it' (whatever the rule covers) in a
'memorable' way. You do not want to be the cause of another FAR,
because you won't be here to get the notoriety. If I sound a little
hard-nosed, I am. I've lost too many friends in the past, and don't
want to lose any more. If you're an aviator, I see you as my friend.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: NOW WHO DID YOU SAY WAS "AWOL' ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Don Diehl <diehldon@comcast.net>
On Thursday, Nov 27, 2003, at 15:18 US/Pacific, JOHN STARN wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Can you imagine flying over the dark Atlantic as a "boomer" of a
> tanker
> and see the nose of Air Force One emerge from the darkness & show up
> for
> fuel. God, what a feeling that must have been. From placing himself in
> harms
> way to learn to fly a single seat fighter (F-102) to the surprise
> visit,
> AGAIN in harms way, in Baghdad. Thank God we have a warrior in the
> White
> House and not some wimp. Way to go George. I'M NOT sorry if I offend
> anyone, that's your problem. Get over it. KABONG
>
John,
Very well said. Thank you.
Don Diehl
Do not archive
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
linn walters wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
> You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
Not in Canada.
-Rob (in Canada)
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
linn walters wrote:
>>
>>
>You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
>
>
> Section 91.307: parachutes and parachuting.
>
>(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
>parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
>a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --
>(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
>(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
>
>
>
I read that to say if you are by yourself or the other person is a crew
member you don't need chutes.
Also as an instructor I don't need chutes to teach spin recovery.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> >
> You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
>
>
> Section 91.307: parachutes and parachuting.
>
> (c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
> parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
> a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --
> (1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
> (2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
>
Where in that does it say anything about a solo pilot wearing a parachute
ever? If it is required, and I don't think it is legally, you need another
reference.
Do not archive
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Message 44
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| Subject: | Galls WigWag - Slow it Down? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael J. Robbins" <michael.j.robbins@verizon.net>
I have installed a Galls flasher (wigwag) but it's flash rate is too fast
for me. Anyone out there who has seen this unit know if I can slow it down
by replacing a component or two?
Mike Robbins
RV-8 N88MJ 330 hours
Sammamish, WA
do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Larry Pardue wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>>You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
>>
>>
>> Section 91.307: parachutes and parachuting.
>>
>>(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
>>parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
>>a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --
>>(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
>>(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Where in that does it say anything about a solo pilot wearing a parachute
>ever?
>
It doesn't. It says each occupant of an aircraft yada, yada, yada.
> If it is required, and I don't think it is legally, you need another
>reference.
>
Please find it for me. I don't think it exists.
Linn
>
>Do not archive
>
>Larry Pardue
>Carlsbad, NM
>
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
>
>linn walters wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
>>
>>
>> Section 91.307: parachutes and parachuting.
>>
>>(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
>>parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
>>a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --
>>(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
>>(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I read that to say if you are by yourself or the other person is a crew
>member you don't need chutes.
>
OK, I guess I have to agree. I guess I'll get flamed for that one! I
didn't read it correctly. I guess if the aircraft is listed as
requiring more than one 'crew' then nobody has to wear 'chutes?
Well, I wear mine .... wouldn't leave the ground (to do aerobatics)
without it.
>Also as an instructor I don't need chutes to teach spin recovery.
>
This is true. That's one of the caveats that I didn't copy.
>
>Jerry
>do not archive
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Parachute (was Flop tube - time to install). |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Pulled this explanation off the EAA websites "Q&A". Response to exactly the
same question, and the original FAR was quoted, but since we've already read
it, I'll just post the answer!!!
Note that this regulation states that all persons in the aircraft must have
a parachute whenever people OTHER THAN CREWMEMBERS are being carried. In a
single-seat aircraft, the only person on board is the pilot, and as he/she
is a crewmember and no others are carried, a parachute is not required. Even
in a two-seat aircraft, so long as no non-crewmembers are carried, the pilot
does not need to wear a parachute when performing aerobatic maneuvers.
However, when a passenger is carried in the two-seat aircraft during
aerobatics, all persons on board INCLUDING crewmembers are required to be
wearing parachutes.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis (have and have not worn my parachute)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>>You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
>>
>>
>> Section 91.307: parachutes and parachuting.
>>
>>(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved
>>parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than
>>a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds --
>>(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
>>(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
>>
>
>Where in that does it say anything about a solo pilot wearing a parachute
>ever?
>
It doesn't. It says each occupant of an aircraft yada, yada, yada.
> If it is required, and I don't think it is legally, you need another
>reference.
>
Please find it for me. I don't think it exists.
Linn
>
>Do not archive
>
>Larry Pardue
>Carlsbad, NM
>
>
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