Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: batteries (Doug Gray)
2. 12:14 AM - Re: Propeller performance testing (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
3. 12:55 AM - tool choices (Randy Tonkin)
4. 02:04 AM - Cabin Heat (Steve Glasgow)
5. 03:03 AM - Re: Wright flyer up (Jim Sears)
6. 03:21 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested (Jim Sears)
7. 03:54 AM - Re: tool choices (Doug Gray)
8. 04:30 AM - Re: tool choices (Ron Walker)
9. 04:40 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested (Sluggo Compton)
10. 05:01 AM - Wanted: rv-3 fuselage + tail. (tw guy)
11. 05:09 AM - Re: Cabin Heat (Alex Peterson)
12. 05:25 AM - Going Faster/vortex generators (Glen Matejcek)
13. 05:30 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not (Jerry Springer)
14. 05:41 AM - Re: tool choices (James E. Clark)
15. 05:49 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested (William J. LaPorte)
16. 06:32 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested (James E. Clark)
17. 06:36 AM - NEW - Tire Valve Extension (Richard Meske)
18. 06:57 AM - Re: Anodizing (Scott Bilinski)
19. 07:26 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
20. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Going faster (Jim Oke)
21. 08:25 AM - Re: NEW - Tire Valve Extension (kempthornes)
22. 08:30 AM - Re: Anodizing (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
23. 08:35 AM - Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if notinterested (C. Rabaut)
24. 08:35 AM - Re: tool choices (kempthornes)
25. 08:55 AM - Tire valve extension (JOHN STARN)
26. 09:25 AM - Re: batteries (Bill Dube)
27. 09:34 AM - Re: tool choices (Bill Dube)
28. 09:37 AM - AFS Waterbourne painting (Andy Karmy)
29. 09:50 AM - Re: Cabin Heat (Vince Himsl)
30. 09:53 AM - Re: Going Faster/vortex generators (Boyd Braem)
31. 10:15 AM - Re: batteries (czechsix@juno.com)
32. 10:24 AM - VG's (John)
33. 10:37 AM - Re: Anodizing (Dana Overall)
34. 11:52 AM - Videos for sale (Cammie Patch)
35. 12:02 PM - Re: fuel tank test? (Cammie Patch)
36. 12:18 PM - Re: VG's (Blanton Fortson)
37. 12:22 PM - Re: Tire valve extension ()
38. 01:28 PM - Canopy skirt pics and questions. (Dana Overall)
39. 02:35 PM - Re: batteries (Tracy Crook)
40. 02:50 PM - Re:Cabib Heat (Bob n' Lu Olds)
41. 02:56 PM - Re: Cabin Heat (Albert Gardner)
42. 04:04 PM - click,shiftt,click&delete (WPAerial@aol.com)
43. 05:28 PM - Scotch-Brite (chris)
44. 05:33 PM - Re: batteries (Bill Dube)
45. 06:46 PM - Re: When the vibration stops - Carb heat muff spring construction (Fred Stucklen)
46. 07:00 PM - Re: Cabin Heat (long) (Curt Reimer)
47. 07:10 PM - 0-320 D2J Engine for sale (bruno)
48. 07:37 PM - Re: Re:Cabib Heat (Alex Peterson)
49. 07:44 PM - Re: 0-320 D2J Engine for sale (Karie Daniel)
50. 08:00 PM - Re: Canopy skirt pics and questions. (kempthornes)
51. 08:02 PM - Re: batteries (kempthornes)
52. 08:13 PM - Airmap: anyone have newest models? (SportAV8R@aol.com)
53. 08:59 PM - Re: Canopy skirt pics and questions. (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Tracy,
Wow, does this mean your regular current consumption is 22 Amps?
Even 10 Amps would be very high if your battery voltage is critical.
What is your typical current load or are you just being exceptionally
conservative?
Doug Gray
do not archive
Tracy Crook wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
> Bill, have you tested for amp hour capacity per pound as well as cranking amp
capacity? Us alternative engine types are especially interested in that since
that's all we have between us and silence when the alternator quits. My present
battery gives me 22 AH for 15 lbs. Good for about 1 hour of flight after
TU on alternator.
> Tracy Crook
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller performance testing |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
According to the efficiency data provided to me from MT Propeller, the MT
Propeller efficiency almost level from 2300 RPM to 2700 RPM.
I have been working with MT Propeller to get a propeller designed for the
specific race conditions being flown. As well as the specific engines being used.
Sun-N-Fun at sea level in April using a Lyc. 180 hp O-360
Reno at 5,000' pressure altitude (around 8,000 to 9,000' density altitude) in
Sept using a Lyc. 380 hp IO-540
Jim Ayers
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: Randy Tonkin <rtonkin@vifr.org>
The question: Is it better to deal-hunt and e-bay new and used tools
together to build your aircraft or spend top dollar up front with Avory
or similar for a complete set of new tools? Do you end up needing all
of the tools included in these package deals even for the pre-punched
kits? It seems likely that there are many people out there that bought
all this equipment, either finished the project or are not going to
finish it, and would like to sell tools they no longer need. Where are
these people? After the airframe is built, it doesn't seem like the
builder will have much use for all of the assembly equipment. What do
you guys do with it all?
It might be that this topic has already been beaten to death but I am
new to your forum and really need some perspective from experienced
builders before throwing down the $$$. I would appreciate any advice or
suggestions for tool shopping. Tomorrow I make the pilgrimage to
Aurora, OR for my -8 empennage.
Randy Tonkin
rtonkin@vifr.org
Seattle, WA
do not archive
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Greetings,
I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every time I try to check
the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is very little if any at all. Just a big
blast of air.
My instillation is a standard heater mounted on the right exhaust with air drawn
from the aft baffle on the # 3 cylinder. The air is ducted to the heater with
2" SCAT and then to a standard air box mounted on the firewall entering the
cabin between the rudder pedals.
Several hours ago I installed some "chor boy" copper scrubber pads in the heater
but there was no noticeable difference.
I'm thinking I may need to restrict some of the air flow in the intake.
Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks !
Steve Glasgow
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wright flyer up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Keller" <dennis@bullamanka.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wright flyer up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dennis Keller <dennis@bullamanka.com>
>
> The pointless chatter on this list is deafening! Friends have told me
> not to bother with the Matronics lists, I guess this is why.
>
> See ya.
>
> On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 10:46, Randy Compton wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David J. Dormer" <revdjd@gci.net>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Wright flyer up
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David J. Dormer" <revdjd@gci.net>
> > >
> > > List Members:
> > >
> > > Why all the consternation? Those staging this "reenactment" of the
Wright
> > brothers first flight are more >concerned with political correctness
than
> > historical accuracy.
> >
> > Sure looks that way, doesn't it?
> >
> > But be careful pointing it out, though, because the "big tent" tolerant
> > bunch have no room in that tent for what they call the good ol' boys
club,
> > and will make cutesy fun of those deemed not as "progressive" as they.
> > Tolerance, you see, only goes one way.
> >
> > Which is why, I suppose, I should have clarified myself when I stated
that I
> > wasn't "too excited about this centennial thing." It's the PC show
going
> > down at Kill Devil Hills that I've lost interest in, not the actual
> > achievement of the Wright's and all that has followed. Apparently some
> > amongst us missed, or was unable to grasp, this point.
> >
> > RC
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested
>
> > The pointless chatter on this list is deafening! Friends have told me
> > not to bother with the Matronics lists, I guess this is why.
> >
> > See ya.
>
> Well don't let the door hit you in the ... on the way out.
> If you think this list is just spam, why add to it.
> JUST LEAVE and leave us alone, no good bye message needed.
>
Guys, guys, guys! Is this the way to treat a fellow lister? You don't
tell him to buzz off just because he's calling you down for abusing the
list. He realized this thread has gotten out of hand and said so. He was
frustrated and should be. I, for one, am having problems finding notes on
this list that actually pertain to building RVs. As a member of this list
since 1996, I was always under the assumption that this list is primarily
for that purpose. Chat rooms are for idle chatter. I believe Matt
mentioned he had set one up for us? Maybe that's a better place for the
Wright discussion than the list. I know my own computer's delete key is
getting pretty warmed up, by now. This makes at least two listers who have
announced their leaving this list in about a month for the same reason.
Shouldn't we take the hint and clean up our act? We're here to help, not
add to an already burdonsome load of spam that hits our computers daily.
I'd sure appreciate it if some of it slowed down. I apologize to those
listers who were offended by your answer. Some of us on this list do
actually read it to learn and help others.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: tool choices |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Randy,
IMHO Get the Avery or equivalent (be sure it IS equivalent tho') from
the start. These toolkits are the beginning & you will use all these
tools many many times on PP & quickbuild airframe kits.
I am still a long way off finishing but I can tell you now I will sell
these tools no more than I would sell my hands. I will keep them as a
reminder of the pleasure I have had in building this airplane. I'm sure
many others are the same.
I don't dare toy with the idea of later building a second RV....a '10
perhaps or may be a '7 ....
Frankly, there is a lot of 'stuff' in the archives and there is a lot of
information NOT yet in the archives including about priming, tools,
engines, aerobatics, avionics etc. Life moves on.
Doug Gray
RV-6 Fuse.....and still loving it.
Avery tools delivered frequently to my home in Sydney, Oz.
do not archive
Randy Tonkin wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Randy Tonkin <rtonkin@vifr.org>
>
> The question: Is it better to deal-hunt and e-bay new and used tools
> together to build your aircraft or spend top dollar up front with Avory
> or similar for a complete set of new tools? Do you end up needing all
> of the tools included in these package deals even for the pre-punched
> kits? It seems likely that there are many people out there that bought
> all this equipment, either finished the project or are not going to
> finish it, and would like to sell tools they no longer need. Where are
> these people? After the airframe is built, it doesn't seem like the
> builder will have much use for all of the assembly equipment. What do
> you guys do with it all?
>
> It might be that this topic has already been beaten to death but I am
> new to your forum and really need some perspective from experienced
> builders before throwing down the $$$. I would appreciate any advice or
> suggestions for tool shopping. Tomorrow I make the pilgrimage to
> Aurora, OR for my -8 empennage.
>
> Randy Tonkin
> rtonkin@vifr.org
> Seattle, WA
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: tool choices |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Tonkin" <rtonkin@vifr.org>
> It seems likely that there are many people out there that bought
> all this equipment, either finished the project or are not going to
> finish it, and would like to sell tools they no longer need. Where are
> these people? After the airframe is built, it doesn't seem like the
> builder will have much use for all of the assembly equipment. What do
> you guys do with it all?
>
I'm at this stage right about now ... most of the larger $$ tools I
purchased are just about to take a back seat - I haven't even had the air
compressor on in a few weeks! I've thought about offering the tools for sale
on e-bay but then it hit me .... won't I need all these for the NEXT RV that
I will build ???
Ron
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Sluggo Compton" <thecomptons@bellsouth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not
interested
> tell him to buzz off just because he's calling you down for abusing the
> list. He realized this thread has gotten out of hand and said so. He was
> frustrated and should be. I, for one, am having problems finding notes on
> this list that actually pertain to building RVs. As a member of this list
> since 1996, I was always under the assumption that this list is primarily
> for that purpose. Chat rooms are for idle chatter. I believe Matt
> mentioned he had set one up for us? Maybe that's a better place for the
> Wright discussion than the list. I know my own computer's delete key is
> getting pretty warmed up, by now. This makes at least two listers who
have
> announced their leaving this list in about a month for the same reason.
> Shouldn't we take the hint and clean up our act? We're here to help, not
> add to an already burdonsome load of spam that hits our computers daily.
> I'd sure appreciate it if some of it slowed down. I apologize to those
> listers who were offended by your answer. Some of us on this list do
> actually read it to learn and help others.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
> EAA Tech Counselor
> do not archive
Jim:
You are exactly "wright" :-), and this thread got out of hand. This sort of
"discussion" does belong somewhere other than a list intended for
building/flying/testing. I hate the fact that it ended up running somebody
off, and that I'm part of the cause.
Randy Compton
RV-3
Gulf Breeze, FL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wanted: rv-3 fuselage + tail. |
--> RV-List message posted by: tw guy <ltwdg@yahoo.com>
Anybody have a rv-3 project for sale with a
substantial amount of work done on the tail and
fuselage?
My interest is to complete a -3 project with the -B
wings.
I understand that I would probably have to replace the
fuse center section if I go with the QB -B wings. (not
sure about this with the standard kit -B wings).
Thanks.
Bill
__________________________________
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every
> time I try to check the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is
> very little if any at all. Just a big blast of air.
There is an optimum volume of air that should pass through the heater
for the most comfort. Too much air and it won't be warm enough, too
little and while it will be quite hot, it won't heat the cabin.
Specifically, it won't drive out the cold drafts. Mine are restricted
(at the baffle pick off point) almost completely, and there is still
enough to really get things warm. If I did it again, I'd be tempted to
use 1" scat, 2" is a major overkill.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 12
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| Subject: | Going Faster/vortex generators |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi all-
While I am mostly interested in the concept of lower surface vg's to reduce
wingtip vortices, the discussion of the commercial kits has made me think
of some other things:
Have you guys noticed a reduction in the tendency for flow separation at
the ailerons at high deflection angle w/ vg's installed? I recall Van
doing some limited investigation using sced 40 PVC pipe on the aileron LE,
but I don't think he saw that project through.
I can see where alternating the orientation of the individual vg's would
both lessen the effects of any yaw angle on the pattern of the vortices on
one wing compared to the other, as well as creating a synergistic
relationship between adjacent vortices. However, if one were delete the
vg's that are oriented LE outboard, wouldn't that create a flow pattern
that both inhibited spanwise flow and at the same time increased spin
resistance? (granted... not necessarily a bennie to those who like to do
snaps and spins...) I could also see some potential for increasing the
dutch roll tendency of the aircraft, due to the differential in wingtip
vortex strength in slipping flight.
Thoughts / comments?
gm
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not |
interested
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
If people are so thinned skinned that they let a few off topic posts
bother them then they should maybe
find another means of getting information. Lets see yesterday there was
some good information
posted about...
Empty weights
Vortex generators
batteries
tools
prop performance
cabin heat
fuel tank testing
etc.
Now if someone cannot find any good in any of these topics and can only
criticize
a topic such as the Wright Flyer topic then they are not looking for
good information
only to gripe. If the person that did not like the off topic had posted
a valid question
instead of complaining then I am sure he would have gotten all the help
he could ever want.
do not archive
Jerry
Jim Sears wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
>
>
>>Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested
>>
>>
>>
>>>The pointless chatter on this list is deafening! Friends have told me
>>>not to bother with the Matronics lists, I guess this is why.
>>>
>>>See ya.
>>>
>>>
>>Well don't let the door hit you in the ... on the way out.
>>If you think this list is just spam, why add to it.
>>JUST LEAVE and leave us alone, no good bye message needed.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Guys, guys, guys! Is this the way to treat a fellow lister? You don't
>tell him to buzz off just because he's calling you down for abusing the
>list. He realized this thread has gotten out of hand and said so. He was
>frustrated and should be. I, for one, am having problems finding notes on
>this list that actually pertain to building RVs. As a member of this list
>since 1996, I was always under the assumption that this list is primarily
>for that purpose. Chat rooms are for idle chatter. I believe Matt
>mentioned he had set one up for us? Maybe that's a better place for the
>Wright discussion than the list. I know my own computer's delete key is
>getting pretty warmed up, by now. This makes at least two listers who have
>announced their leaving this list in about a month for the same reason.
>Shouldn't we take the hint and clean up our act? We're here to help, not
>add to an already burdonsome load of spam that hits our computers daily.
>I'd sure appreciate it if some of it slowed down. I apologize to those
>listers who were offended by your answer. Some of us on this list do
>actually read it to learn and help others.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS
>EAA Tech Counselor
>do not archive
>
>
>_->
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Save your time and in the long run money ... Call Avery (or Cleaveland),
tell them what you are about to build and send them the check.
Move on, don't look back. You will not regret it, nor will you have wasted
your money.
Of course if someone just *happens* to offer up their set of good tools from
the above at a good price, by all means take it.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Tonkin
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:55 AM
> To: RV-List@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: tool choices
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Randy Tonkin <rtonkin@vifr.org>
>
> The question: Is it better to deal-hunt and e-bay new and used tools
> together to build your aircraft or spend top dollar up front with Avory
> or similar for a complete set of new tools? Do you end up needing all
> of the tools included in these package deals even for the pre-punched
> kits? It seems likely that there are many people out there that bought
> all this equipment, either finished the project or are not going to
> finish it, and would like to sell tools they no longer need. Where are
> these people? After the airframe is built, it doesn't seem like the
> builder will have much use for all of the assembly equipment. What do
> you guys do with it all?
>
> It might be that this topic has already been beaten to death but I am
> new to your forum and really need some perspective from experienced
> builders before throwing down the $$$. I would appreciate any advice or
> suggestions for tool shopping. Tomorrow I make the pilgrimage to
> Aurora, OR for my -8 empennage.
>
> Randy Tonkin
> rtonkin@vifr.org
> Seattle, WA
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested |
--> RV-List message posted by: "William J. LaPorte" <LaPorte@EDACSystems.com>
Thanks Jim for saying what many are probably thinking. Although new to
the list I was surprised by the chatter and within days contemplated
unsubscribing. I intend to hang in though and wait it out. It is
obvious that our fellow builders and fliers are a wonderful group of
folks, but some should consider the reason for the list and use
alternative methods of communication for the chatter. Thanks again for
bolstering my confidence in the LIST.
Regards,
Bill
RV-9A 90696
Emp done, wings on order.
William J. LaPorte
Director, Engineering & Operations
EDAC Systems, Incorporated
540-361-1580
FAX 361-1581
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sears
Subject: Re: RV-List: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if
not interested
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested
>
> > The pointless chatter on this list is deafening! Friends have told
me
> > not to bother with the Matronics lists, I guess this is why.
> >
> > See ya.
>
> Well don't let the door hit you in the ... on the way out.
> If you think this list is just spam, why add to it.
> JUST LEAVE and leave us alone, no good bye message needed.
>
Guys, guys, guys! Is this the way to treat a fellow lister? You don't
tell him to buzz off just because he's calling you down for abusing the
list. He realized this thread has gotten out of hand and said so. He
was
frustrated and should be. I, for one, am having problems finding notes
on
this list that actually pertain to building RVs. As a member of this
list
since 1996, I was always under the assumption that this list is
primarily
for that purpose. Chat rooms are for idle chatter. I believe Matt
mentioned he had set one up for us? Maybe that's a better place for
the
Wright discussion than the list. I know my own computer's delete key is
getting pretty warmed up, by now. This makes at least two listers who
have
announced their leaving this list in about a month for the same reason.
Shouldn't we take the hint and clean up our act? We're here to help,
not
add to an already burdonsome load of spam that hits our computers daily.
I'd sure appreciate it if some of it slowed down. I apologize to those
listers who were offended by your answer. Some of us on this list do
actually read it to learn and help others.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
=
==
==
==
==
Message 16
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| Subject: | Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Very valid points Jerry.
Also, we *will* from time to time stray from the "prime objective". What is
most helpful from other listers is to remind us all when this has occurred
and usually things get right back on course.
Yes, the signal to noise ratio has changed on this list since the "early
days", but the magnitude of the signal is now so great that it is worth
hearing a little noise in the background for me.
Of course it is also probably best not to pour gas on the fire when someone
does decide to announce their departure ... they might rethink it later and
stick around.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:30 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com.interested
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if
> not interested
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> If people are so thinned skinned that they let a few off topic posts
> bother them then they should maybe
> find another means of getting information. Lets see yesterday there was
> some good information
> posted about...
> Empty weights
> Vortex generators
> batteries
> tools
> prop performance
> cabin heat
> fuel tank testing
> etc.
> Now if someone cannot find any good in any of these topics and can only
> criticize
> a topic such as the Wright Flyer topic then they are not looking for
> good information
> only to gripe. If the person that did not like the off topic had posted
> a valid question
> instead of complaining then I am sure he would have gotten all the help
> he could ever want.
> do not archive
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| From: | Richard Meske <rmeske@gcfn.org> (SquirrelMail authenticated user rmeske) by www.gcfn.org with HTTP; Tue, |
2 Dec 2003 09:36:32.-0500@matronics.com (EST)
| Subject: | NEW - Tire Valve Extension |
Hey guys!
Just thought I'd inform the list again that we have new product for ya.
If you have had to fill a tire with air, you'll appreciate this one. You
don't even have to remove your wheel pants. It is a valve extension.
Check it out at www.aircraftextras.com
GOOD LUCK building!
Rich
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Just a FYI, anodizing fades in sun light.
At 08:32 PM 11/27/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>OK, I was wondering if there was another way to achieve what anodizing does
>but it sounds like anodizing is the way to go on the outside slider rail.
>I'm painting th inner two rails.
>
>What type of local shops would routinely do anodizing?
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>do not archive
>
>Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free
>parking. http://shopping.msn.com
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not |
interested
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Sometimes we have to get away from the project and see what's happening in the
rest of the RV world.
When one can't be flexible and have a broad point of view, perhaps he is just not
suited for our group.....
If anyone should be mad at this list, it should be me. I would have been flying
two years ago if I didn't come up here to the computer and see what the gossip
is
every few hours....
Sometimes I wish I hadn't retired, Then I would have some dough and I would spend
more nights on the project...
Phil,
RV-6 N181RV finishing electrical and instrument panel.
Pitt's N1GB Glider, due to losing its engine to RV6..
Do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Going faster |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
OK, I understood these VGs were on the underside of the wing before but they
are projecting forward of the LE. Which, if the aircraft was at a high angle
of attack and considering upwash airflow from forward and below the wing LE,
would influence the upper surface airflow.
Just to clarify the situation, what type of aircraft is involved anyway?
If it is a high speed bizjet, there could be some mach induced flow
separation (due local supersonic flow) on the lower surface that the
manufacturer was trying to prevent which would improve the high speed cruise
performance. (This would not be relevant for an RV series aircraft despite
our wildest dreams.)
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RE: Going faster
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> >the vortices are intended to add some extra energy to the upper
> >surface
>
> has three (relatively) small vg's
> protruding fwd from the UNDERSIDE of the outboard LE
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: NEW - Tire Valve Extension |
NEW_DOMAIN_EXTENSIONS
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
also available from road type RV stores.
hal
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
> It should be relative simple to do the rails at home for cheap.
follow the previous URL's to anodizing. For a tank, use some schedule 40 pvc pipe
with an end cap on it. Maybe a piece of 3 inch or 4 inch would do. Cut it longer
than the rails, Roll a peice of thin 6061 aluminum for the anode or get a peice
of tubing from Wick's or Spruce or junk yard, Make some spacers to keep it away
from the piece being anodized. maybe a little smaller pice of pvc with a lot of
large holes cut in it would slip down between the part and the anode. Tie it up
so it cant tip over and spill acid all over. Use rubber gloves and face shield.
A Sears battery charger will do the trick.
For coloring, use Ritz dye but you will need a long vessel to cook the coloring
in with and seal the grain. Perhaps fabricate it from another piece of pipe
(steel this time) use your imagination to heat it up to boiling. Again support
it
so the boiling water can't fall over on you and blister you.
Go to the anodizing websites to find out how to really do it. But it should not
be hard to do and would make a good group project to do the set up and anodizing.
Phil
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if notinterested |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Jerry,
I don't often agree with you (on off topic subjects) but in this
instance I belief you hit the nail on the head. I've been in the "flying"
category for years, but I haven't been able to wean myself from the building
aspect either (it's kinda addictive). So I utilize the lists for
entertainment, building tips, as well as new developments. I also use the
"Delete Key" religiously. Let me be the first to wish everyone on our
lists "Merry Christmas". Take care all,
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if
notinterested
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> If people are so thinned skinned that they let a few off topic posts
> bother them then they should maybe
> find another means of getting information. Lets see yesterday there was
> some good information
> posted about...
> Empty weights
> Vortex generators
> batteries
> tools
> prop performance
> cabin heat
> fuel tank testing
> etc.
> Now if someone cannot find any good in any of these topics and can only
> criticize
> a topic such as the Wright Flyer topic then they are not looking for
> good information
> only to gripe. If the person that did not like the off topic had posted
> a valid question
> instead of complaining then I am sure he would have gotten all the help
> he could ever want.
> do not archive
> Jerry
>
>
> Jim Sears wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The pointless chatter on this list is deafening! Friends have told me
> >>>not to bother with the Matronics lists, I guess this is why.
> >>>
> >>>See ya.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Well don't let the door hit you in the ... on the way out.
> >>If you think this list is just spam, why add to it.
> >>JUST LEAVE and leave us alone, no good bye message needed.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Guys, guys, guys! Is this the way to treat a fellow lister? You don't
> >tell him to buzz off just because he's calling you down for abusing the
> >list. He realized this thread has gotten out of hand and said so. He
was
> >frustrated and should be. I, for one, am having problems finding notes
on
> >this list that actually pertain to building RVs. As a member of this
list
> >since 1996, I was always under the assumption that this list is primarily
> >for that purpose. Chat rooms are for idle chatter. I believe Matt
> >mentioned he had set one up for us? Maybe that's a better place for the
> >Wright discussion than the list. I know my own computer's delete key is
> >getting pretty warmed up, by now. This makes at least two listers who
have
> >announced their leaving this list in about a month for the same reason.
> >Shouldn't we take the hint and clean up our act? We're here to help,
not
> >add to an already burdonsome load of spam that hits our computers daily.
> >I'd sure appreciate it if some of it slowed down. I apologize to those
> >listers who were offended by your answer. Some of us on this list do
> >actually read it to learn and help others.
> >
> >Jim Sears in KY
> >RV-6A N198JS
> >EAA Tech Counselor
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >_->
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: tool choices |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 12:54 AM 12/2/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Randy Tonkin <rtonkin@vifr.org>
>
>The question: Is it better to deal-hunt and e-bay new and used tools
>together to build your aircraft or spend top dollar up front with Avory
>or similar for a complete set of new tools?
The first thing you need Randy, is a mentor or coach. When you go shopping
for used tools you need to know what to look for as many will be worn to
badly or even damaged. I was lucky enough to find a builder who decided he
would never do another kit so he sold everything. He was perfectly honest
but some of his tools were far from being good tools.
Realize that some of the tools are essential while some are just for ease
or improved productivity. Check the archives on this. Also know that us
who have completed an RV can now build one with nothing more than a file.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 25
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"rocket-list" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Tire valve extension |
NEW_DOMAIN_EXTENSIONS
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
We got ours at NAPA Auto, #HE-391 valve extension. See photos on wheels
pants in archives. KABONG Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: NEW - Tire Valve Extension NEW_DOMAIN_EXTENSIONS
> --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
> also available from road type RV stores.
>
> hal
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 12:59 AM 12/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
>Bill, have you tested for amp hour capacity per pound as well as cranking
>amp capacity? Us alternative engine types are especially interested in
>that since that's all we have between us and silence when the alternator
>quits. My present battery gives me 22 AH for 15 lbs. Good for about 1
>hour of flight after TU on alternator.
High-quality, high-power AGMs don't vary much in this respect.
They all have about the same number of amp-hrs per pound, give or take 10%
or so. Thus, to achieve a X minutes of dead alternator running time given Y
amps of current draw, you are going to have to install Z pounds of lead.
The spec sheet may say something different, but the load test
reveals that they are all follow the same trend. Of course, low power
(small Cold Cranking Amp) batteries will deliver more amp-hrs per pound
than batteries with large CCA. This is because the plates and straps are
much thinner and the paste is thicker in the battery that has fewer CCAs.
The SVR folks sell a full range of sizes. The SVR-18 is close to
what you have.
http://www.svrbatteries.com/motorcycle_line.html
Also, I should add that the capacity of the battery is very much
dependant on how low you allow the voltage to dip before you declare the
battery 100% discharged. Hawker picks 10 volts while other battery
manufacturers typically pick 10.5 volts as the 100% discharged voltage.
This makes Hawker batteries appear to have greater amp-hr capacity.
I should also note that as the battery ages, the capacity
decreases. You may also not know that brand new batteries have about 20%
reduced capacity for the first 10 to 20 cycles. Improperly charging your
AGM battery will make HUGE reductions in capacity. Since the typical
aircraft charging system does not even come close to properly charging an
AGM, you should only expect a fraction of the rated capacity of your battery.
Probably the best set-up would be an AGM for starting and a NiCad
(or better yet, a Li-Ion) battery for back-up in case of a charging system
failure. If you compare the capacity (energy) per kg for each of these
technologies, you will understand why NiCad or Li-Ion would be the best
choice. Lead-acid batteries have about 25 to 35 Watt-hours per kg
(W-hr/kg). NiCad batteries have about 40 to 50 W-hr/kg. Li-Ion batteries
have about 100 to 200 W-hr/kg. This means that a Li-Ion battery of the same
weight would have about 8 times the amp-hr capacity of a lead-acid battery.
If low weight is your goal, a Li-Ion back-up is the way to go.
They require an electronic charge management system, however, so this
reduces the simplicity and reliability of Li-Ion batteries.
If reliability is your goal, a NiCad back-up battery is probably
your best bet. They are practically indestructible and last longer than
almost any other technology, especially when subjected to abuse.
When you are into racing electric vehicles, you have no choice but
to become an expert on batteries. :-)
Message 27
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 08:41 AM 12/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
>
>Save your time and in the long run money ... Call Avery (or Cleaveland),
>tell them what you are about to build and send them the check.
>
>Move on, don't look back. You will not regret it, nor will you have wasted
>your money.
I found that I saved a bunch of money buying the larger, more
expensive tools on Ebay. For example, I bought my pneumatic squeezer for
$170 on Ebay. I probably spent about the same total amount of money on
tools, but I ended up with a lot more tools and higher quality tools than I
would have if I had simply written a check to one of the major tool suppliers.
I really enjoy looking for a bargain. Hunting deals and getting
bargains was a lot of fun for me. However, if you are pressed for time, and
don't enjoy shopping, then I would completely agree that the Ebay route is
definitely not for you.
Message 28
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"RV-9A @ Yahoo" <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | AFS Waterbourne painting |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Andy Karmy" <andy@karmy.com>
For those of you looking for a safer, more environmental
friendly, good quality paint system... I have posted a detailed
write up with pictures of the process of painting my fiberglass
parts using AFS 2 part Polyurathane paint.
I switched to AFS products a few years ago since I build in my
attached garage and could not tollerate the solvent smell in
the house and for my personal health.
Here's the link:
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/
afs-paint.htm
- Andy Karmy
RV9A, Seattle WA
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
There was a recent thread regarding the fact that air pressure from the tail counteracts
the heat from the front. Some have
placed a reverse duct on the belly or modified the rudder horn access plates to
incorporate the duct effect. I guess the
idea is to provide an exit point for the air being scooped by the tail.
Also, the canopy/fairing intersection with the slider rail has been a source of
cold air. Best rec you scan archives for
complete picture using keywords "Cabin Heat" "keeping the plane warm"
Please reply back on the list your results as I am at point where the addition
of these type of modifications would be
relatively easy.
I am soundproofing/insulating my cabin area...did you do yours?
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8SB - Finish
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Greetings,
I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every time I try to check
the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is very
little if any at all. Just a big blast of air.
My instillation is a standard heater mounted on the right exhaust with air drawn
from the aft baffle on the # 3 cylinder.
The air is ducted to the heater with 2" SCAT and then to a standard air box mounted
on the firewall entering the cabin
between the rudder pedals.
Several hours ago I installed some "chor boy" copper scrubber pads in the heater
but there was no noticeable difference.
I'm thinking I may need to restrict some of the air flow in the intake.
Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks !
Steve Glasgow
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Going Faster/vortex generators |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Maybe we should call VGs "surface layer micro-turbulence generators".
In some 'planes they vent air out thru small holes in the top of the
wing to accomplish a similar effect. This surface or boundary layer
disturbance is propagated fore to aft across the wing. The wing tip
vortex is propagated laterally away from the wing and is mainly a
function of lift generated by the wing and is a very large vortex
compared to the VG "vortex". It can be physically attenuated by some
find of physical "fence" or winglet (that is much larger than a VG).
Sails on a sailboat have the same problem (they deal with it,
presently, largely by futtsing with the aspect ratio (tho, some people
have experimented with a cap or fence on top of the mast, but think
what even a small amount of weight does on that long lever arm)). If
the VGs allow you to fly slower at a greater AOA you should have
stronger wing tip vortices but it is not generated by the VGs, it is
generated by the lift of the wing.
The air flow separation with rapid, full deflection of Van's slotted
aileron (you can feel a little "bump") occurs with/without VGs (at
least on my 'plane).
As usual, I'm full of sh*t, but I like to talk.
Boyd.
Venice, FL
do not archive
On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 08:24 AM, Glen Matejcek wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
> <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi all-
>
> While I am mostly interested in the concept of lower surface vg's to
> reduce
> wingtip vortices, the discussion of the commercial kits has made me
> think
> of some other things:
>
> Have you guys noticed a reduction in the tendency for flow separation
> at
> the ailerons at high deflection angle w/ vg's installed? I recall Van
> doing some limited investigation using sced 40 PVC pipe on the aileron
> LE,
> but I don't think he saw that project through.
>
> I can see where alternating the orientation of the individual vg's
> would
> both lessen the effects of any yaw angle on the pattern of the
> vortices on
> one wing compared to the other, as well as creating a synergistic
> relationship between adjacent vortices. However, if one were delete
> the
> vg's that are oriented LE outboard, wouldn't that create a flow pattern
> that both inhibited spanwise flow and at the same time increased spin
> resistance? (granted... not necessarily a bennie to those who like
> to do
> snaps and spins...) I could also see some potential for increasing the
> dutch roll tendency of the aircraft, due to the differential in wingtip
> vortex strength in slipping flight.
>
> Thoughts / comments?
>
> gm
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 31
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--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Tracy,
I have an all-electric -8A with dual Lightspeeds and have a couple questions for
you:
1) What battery are you using that is 22 ah and only weighs 15 lbs? This seems
really good...the popular Odyssey PC 680 that lots of folks are running is also
15 lbs but only rated at 16 ah. If I could get 40% more capacity for the
same weight and a reasonable price, that would be great!
2) Does your Mazda engine depend on an electric fuel pump, and if so, how much
current does it draw? Seems like the ignition alone wouldn't drain a 22 ah battery
in one hour of flight. I figure if I switched off one Lightspeed and most
of my avionics, the 16 ah PC 680 should outlast the fuel in my tanks.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D always finishing but never finished...
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Bill, have you tested for amp hour capacity per pound as well as cranking amp capacity?
Us alternative engine types are especially interested in that since
that's all we have between us and silence when the alternator quits. My present
battery gives me 22 AH for 15 lbs. Good for about 1 hour of flight after
TU on alternator.
Tracy Crook
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
Opinions wanted: Would addition of VG's to an RV constitute a "major change"
as defined by the FAR's?
The inability to objectively determine any aerodynamic change leads me to
think it would not be, but then this is a confusing area. Your thoughts?
John
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Just a FYI, anodizing fades in sun light.
>
Actually Scott, I was just getting ready to post some things I have found
out about anodizing. This may be old subject for some but new for others so
here goes.
Prices varied from $350-$250-$200 down to $125 for hard black anodizing to
$100 for soft black. Any alum that is alclad needs to have to alclad buffed
off. The smoother the surface the glossier the finish. Soft anodizing will
be more glossy than hard anodizing but the hard will last longer. Yes,
anodizing color is subject to UV breakdown and will fade more quickly in
direct sunlight. Hum, that slider rail is dead center fuselage and exposed
to direct sunlight all the time............
Since I will hangar my airplane, UV is not as much an issue as one that
would sit outside. It would certainly be easy enough to remove that rail
and have it re-anodized if it came to that.
Moral of the story, check around. The prices vary dramatically.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos,
and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
I have the Orndorff RV 6/8 Empennage videos and the Orndorff Aircraft tools
videos for sale. I used them for my -7 and they are extremely helpful and
entertaining :-). $35 for all, I pay shipping. Please email me off list.
Cammie Patch
RV7a
Proseal in my hair.
(no leaks ;-)
Message 35
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
I never had a leak anywhere other than the rear baffle. I found that I
needed to run the bead of sealant a little higher on the skins (more over
the holes) than the plans for my 7 called for. I like to see it ooze out a
little bit on the outside between the baffle flange and the skins. Lots of
sealant for the corners. But, if there were a leak to fix in any other spot,
it would be great to be able to test it prior to installing the baffle. I
don't see how this is possible though.
cammie patch
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wilder, Scott" <SWilder@LOWEENTERPRISES.com>
Should I test for leaks before installing the rear baffle? Do not
Archive.
Scott Wilder
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
My *opinion*, FWIW, is that VG's do not constitute a "major change".
VG note: On the Cessna I used to own, I'd installed Charles White's
'Micro-Aero' VG's. How Chucks VG's differ from other STC'd kits for
certificated airplanes is that Chuck also adds VG's to the underside of
horizontal stabilizer. This *dramatically* increases elevator authority
at low airspeed. This was the most overtly noticeable effect of putting
VG's on the 206. I very much liked the change in the flying qualities.
For a STOL RV-9, I feel VG's might be the ticket.
B.
http://homepage.mac.com/blanton
On Dec 2, 2003, at 9:24 AM, John wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
> Opinions wanted: Would addition of VG's to an RV constitute a "major
> change"
> as defined by the FAR's?
> The inability to objectively determine any aerodynamic change leads me
> to
> think it would not be, but then this is a confusing area. Your
> thoughts?
> John
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Tire valve extension |
--> RV-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
A fellow RV lister/builder/flyer selling helpful products at reasonable
prices, and some listers openly directing others to non-aviation
non-builder types (who are probably at the city council meeting right now
trying to shut down your local airport).
I, and hopefully others, choose to support the RV and aviation community
first if possible.
Rob Acker (sorry must be all the latest crap on the list finally getting
to me, just gotta' start some of my own <g>)
do not archive
> We got ours at NAPA Auto
>>
>> also available from road type RV stores.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Canopy skirt pics and questions. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Well, after about two weeks of wondering, looking, wondering, wandering
around the shop looking, wondering, watching TV, wandering back into the
shop to look and wonder if it would fit.........................
TaaDaa!!
http://rvflying.tripod.com/skirt1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/skirt2.jpg
If you can't tell these are the side skirts after attaching the inside
braces and "massaging" the skirts a little. No wise cracks about massaging
skirts now:-) They don't hit the top rail nor do they drag when opening. I
know, I don't have any tape on the inside and I don't have a layer of paint
on the fuselage nor inside of the skirts. I figure it will be easier to
work them out a litte as opposed to getting them closer.
I'm pumped:-) Following some instructions in the RVator and pre bending the
skirts using my knee as an english wheel did the trick. I've pre bent the
various bends in the aft skirt so they look like they will lie down nice and
flat without loading the side skirts and pulling them out. I've pre bent
the lower sections of the aft skirts so if anything they will push in a
little. That's the plan........the airplane will surely have something to
say about the final outcome though.
Now all I'm doing is wandering down to the shop and looking.........it's
just a different kind of looking:-)
As for placing a handle on each side of the canopy, are people just using
those aft two rivet holes that go into the square tube, drilling them out to
#30 and poping a couple LP4-4s.
I've checked the archives but does anyone have a picture URL showing a lock?
I would like to have two positions for locking, one totally closed then
one with the canopy open about 6 inches......just to keep the honest thief
honest but allow the cockpit to vent.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Say goodbye to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet
connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
I'll have to go look at the model number but it is a common (large size) motorcycle
battery from NAPA. They supply several models of the same physical size
that vary from 17 to 22 AH and I picked the highest one. Price was highest too,
about $65 as I recall. Trouble is I don't know what the discharge rate was
for that spec. Generally, the faster you drain a lead acid battery the lower
its rating goes, so the difference in ratings might not even be real if they
used different discharge rates.
It takes about 12 amps to keep my controllers, pumps, ignition coils (4) and injectors
fed. The 22 AH should last well over 1 hr but it doesn't. The 22 AH
rating is probably at a very low current draw. The CCA rating is pretty low on
this battery but the Mazda rotary doesn't take much torque to crank. No valve
train to operate and only 3 moving parts.
My thanks to Bill Dube for the quick course on batteries. Just the info I needed
to make an intelligent choice for the -8 I'm building. I'll probably spring
for the ni-cads and leave the motorcycle battery in the -4 test mule.
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: czechsix@juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries
--> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Tracy,
I have an all-electric -8A with dual Lightspeeds and have a couple questions for
you:
1) What battery are you using that is 22 ah and only weighs 15 lbs? This seems
really good...the popular Odyssey PC 680 that lots of folks are running is also
15 lbs but only rated at 16 ah. If I could get 40% more capacity for the
same weight and a reasonable price, that would be great!
2) Does your Mazda engine depend on an electric fuel pump, and if so, how much
current does it draw? Seems like the ignition alone wouldn't drain a 22 ah battery
in one hour of flight. I figure if I switched off one Lightspeed and most
of my avionics, the 16 ah PC 680 should outlast the fuel in my tanks.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D always finishing but never finished...
Message 40
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks@aol.com>
I use 1" scat for the inlet on our RV-4 cabin heater. I have a spring wound around
the pipe inside the heat muff,to increase the transfer area but not restrict
the flow. The muff to mixer box scat is 2".
I get plenty of heat so far (55 hours).
Bob Olds
Charleston,Arkansas
Message 41
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut@worldnet.att.net>
This summer in Yuma cabin Heat was not the problem but now that I've made
several trips North this November I have actually used that function. My 9A
has the Vans heat muff and air comes from the back baffle and seems
adequate at 35F OAT. There is a considerable draft from the rear however. A
blanket stretched across the cabin behind the seats fixed part of it. I'm
looking at the rear skirt fit and the opening around the slide rail. The
surprising thing however is that there is no air coming up around the
sticks.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 42
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| Subject: | click,shiftt,click&delete |
--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
on my screen i can delete 24 post at one time. what i do is click,shift,click
scan & DELETE ! If i havn't had time to get on line for a few days, i don't
even do the scan part.
I have been flying for a year. 194 hours ! and every now and than i find
someting i have to read or ask about. i even read the off subject post at times.
jerry wilken
n699wp
albany Oregon
Message 43
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--> RV-List message posted by: chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
I just noticed that MSC has the maroon 7447 Scotch-Brite hand pads on
sale for $37.99 for a box of 60. I know 60 is enough to build about 10
planes but if you are part of a group of local builders or an EAA
chapter it would be great deal.
http://www.mscdirect.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=460029&query=PG03356557
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Message 44
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 05:34 PM 12/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
>
>I'll have to go look at the model number but it is a common (large size)
>motorcycle battery from NAPA. They supply several models of the same
>physical size that vary from 17 to 22 AH and I picked the highest
>one. Price was highest too, about $65 as I recall. Trouble is I don't
>know what the discharge rate was for that spec. Generally, the faster
>you drain a lead acid battery the lower its rating goes, so the difference
>in ratings might not even be real if they used different discharge rates.
There is a formula you can use called "Peukert's Equation" that
allows you to calculate the amp-hr capacity of the battery at any discharge
rate. To set the two constants in the equation, you must know the actual
capacity at two different discharge rates.
Here is a link to a Peukert calculator:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/battery.html
>It takes about 12 amps to keep my controllers, pumps, ignition coils (4)
>and injectors fed. The 22 AH should last well over 1 hr but it doesn't.
The amp-hr specification is at the 20 hr discharge rate. Thus, if
you had a draw of 1.1 amps, the battery would supply 22 amp-hrs over the 20
hours that it took to run it flat. If instead, you pulled 22 amps from it,
it would might last only 15 or 20 minutes before it was dead.
"Stiff" batteries with high CCAs and low internal resistance do
not suffer as badly from this problem. Also, NiCad batteries and Li-Ion
batteries lose very little capacity at modestly high discharges. That is
another reason that they make excellent back-up type batteries.
> The 22 AH rating is probably at a very low current draw. The CCA rating
> is pretty low on this battery but the Mazda rotary doesn't take much
> torque to crank. No valve train to operate and only 3 moving parts.
If you were to get a battery with a greater CCA, but a slightly
lower amp-hr capacity, it would probably run your airplane longer without
an alternator.
>My thanks to Bill Dube for the quick course on batteries. Just the info I
>needed to make an intelligent choice for the -8 I'm building. I'll
>probably spring for the ni-cads and leave the motorcycle battery in the -4
>test mule.
Some of the aircraft style starting batteries can produce
startlingly high CCA's, last nearly forever, and have excellent "dead
alternator" capacity for their weight. They cost a fortune, however.
Typically five to eight times the cost of a similar CCA lead-acid battery.
Ouch!
If you are interested in just the one hour capacity, and are not
going to use the NiCad to start the airplane, the cost is not as painful.
For the same one-hour capacity, a flooded NiCad will weigh about 1/2 as
much as a lead-acid battery and will cost _just_ three to four times as much.
Aircraft starting NiCads are often available used and are often in
very good condition used. However, there are many models and styles and
they all don't have good CCA ratings. You can ruin NiCads if you stray
beyond their peak amperage (discharge) ratings. Also, some folks try to
sell worn-out NiCads, or even give them away, because they are expensive to
"throw" away as they contain cadmium. Load test before you buy a used NiCad!
If you are planning a two battery system for reliability, probably
the best choice would be an AGM for starting and a NiCad for back-up.
Message 45
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| Subject: | RE: When the vibration stops - Carb heat muff spring construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
George & Listers,
The "spring type device from .032 stainless safety wire" is
constructed by winding standard .032" safety wire onto a 1/4" dowel .
Chuck the dowel in your favorite drill, hand start the wire, then slowly
power turn the dowel and close wind the wire. You'll probably need at
least 14"-16" of closely wound wire on the dowel. Remove the dowel from
the chuck, and let the tension out of the winding by releasing both
ends. Slip the wire off the dowel. Don't worry about slightly
stretching it out , as that's the next step in the process. Don't
stretch it out too much, as the more turns touching the exhaust pipe the
better the heat transfer will be. Take the finished "spring" and wrap it
around the exhaust pipe, securing it to either the muff end or its
self...
If you do use both crossover pipes, put a separate "spring" on each
pipe. The idea is to channel the carb inlet air over the springs, not
through areas where there are no spring coils, so an internal muff
baffle might be necessary....
The .032 safety wire might seem soft, but in a coiled form, it will
have more than enough rigidity....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
--> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca
<mailto:gmcnutt@intergate.ca?subject=RE:%20RE:%20When%20the%20vibration%
20stops%20&%20Carb%20Heat&replyto=200312010657.hB16v7R21193@matronics.co
m> >
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20RE:%20When%20th
e%20vibration%20stops%20&%20Carb%20Heat&replyto=200312010657.hB16v7R2119
3@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20RE:%20When%20th
e%20vibration%20stops%20&%20Carb%20Heat&replyto=200312010657.hB16v7R2119
3@matronics.com> ]On Behalf Of Fred Stucklen
<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20RE:%20When%20the%20vibration
%20stops%20&%20Carb%20Heat&replyto=200312010657.hB16v7R21193@matronics.c
om>
Subject: RE: When the vibration stops
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net
<mailto:wstucklen1@cox.net?subject=RE:%20RE:%20When%20the%20vibration%20
stops%20&%20Carb%20Heat&replyto=200312010657.hB16v7R21193@matronics.com>
>
For those of you that want a better carb heat muff, I strongly suggest
NOT using the same muff as the cabin heat. Instead, construct a muff
around
one of the
crossover pipes directly above the carb air box. And to make more carb
heat
available, make a spring type device from .032 stainless safety wire,
and
wrap it around
the exhaust pipe under the muff.
I second Fred's comments and would even suggest that the carb heat muff
wrap
around both
crossover pipes.
Fred could you elaborate a bit on your "spring type device from .032
stainless safety wire"
the safety wire I have is quite soft, and I can't picture it wrapped as
a
spring.
Thanks
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
I have found a lot of good information on sealing and heating the cockpit on
this list and in the old RVators. I ended up using just about every
technique I could find in combination. This may sound like a lot of work but
it was only a day or two of effort.
Sealing the cockpit from drafts is critical. You can only get so many BTUs
worth of heat out of the heat muffs so you can't afford to waste any. From
front to rear, I sealed everything I could think of, including:
1. My standard 2" plastic eyeball vents have silicone seal "gaskets" as
recommended by Van's so they seal well when closed.
2. I made aileron pushrod boots out of old tent fly material (my first
Oshkosh tent...sniff). These are sealed and riveted to the outside floor
ribs. It is a good idea to use wind-proof material or you may get air
seepage.
3. The area between the spar bulkhead/carry through and the forward floor
panels had a few gaps. When I had the floor panels off at annual, I sealed
these gaps with bits of foam. The black sound insulation foam works well as
it is the closed-cell type and does not let air seep through. Ordinary
polyfoam is quite permeable. I also sealed the small gap between the spar
webs in the middle, and around my wiring and trim cable penetration points.
4. I made sure my stick boots sealed snugly to the stick.
5. Gaps around the seat belt anchors and the rear J-stringers were sealed
with RTV.
6. The flap actuating shaft was sealed where it penetrates the baggage
sidewalls. I used a couple of pieces of foam with half moon cutouts that are
glued to the inside of the panel and ride against the shaft.
7. The sliding canopy skirts were sealed with V-seal cut from a racing
bicycle inner tube. This idea also comes from the RVator. The V-seal is
attached to the skirts with double sided tape. One long piece seals along
the full canopy rail. A couple of inches of self-adhesive foam weatherstrip
seal in the area of the rear nylon blocks (sorry for not using part numbers,
I don't have my pans at hand). Then for the aft few inches of skirt, another
piece of inner tube V-seal, this time attached to the top of the longeron.
Note that ordinary plastic hardware store V-seal didn't work at all. The
inner tube V-seal is more flexible and work great.
8. I used 1/4" self adhesive foam (I use the very slight white stuff)
weatherstripping on the inside of the rear skirt, sealing against the aft
turtledeck skin.
9. I made a "sliding block seal" for the rear canopy rail. This is hard to
describe but I think I found it in one of the "xx years of RVator books".
10. I glued little triangles of foam into the gaps in the rear bulkheads.
I found that the front of the slider, where it meets the windshield, seals
just fine with no weatherstripping at all.
On the firewall, to avoid CO etc. getting in, I prosealed along every seam
from the inside of the cockpit, followed by 3/4 insulation foam, foil and
aluminum duct tape, so it's essentially double-sealed. On the engine side of
the firewall, all penetration points were sealed with red RTV, even if they
already had a rubber grommet or whatever.
For heat, I used a 2" scat tube off the rear baffle, into a Y connector. One
side of the Y goes through two Robbins heat muffs, connected in series, to
the hot side of a Van's hot/cold air mixing valve. The other side of the Y
goes to the cold side of the mixing valve. On the inside of the cockpit, I
made a lightweight fibreglass plenum to distribute the heat evenly to both
sides. This gives much more even heat distribiution than a single big 2"
hole.
I routed the heat muff ducting so that the air flows in the opposite
direction of the exhaust. I don't know the exact thermodynamics at work
here, but this apparently gives the maximum possible heat transfer.
I have stainless scrubbers installed in the muffs at the moment, but I'm not
sure that they do much besides restrict the air flow. Without the scrubbers,
I had to throttle the air intake down to about 50% for the right amount of
flow. With the scrubbers installed, I have the flow restriction removed and
I seem to get about the same amount of heat and flow. I'll have to
experiment some more with this. I think I read somewhere that Rick Robbins
says don't bother with springs or scrubbers, but they seem to work for some.
I recommend testing your heat output with the air intake blocked 25%, 50%,
75% and totally open and see which gives the best heat. I think this will
vary from aircraft to aircraft depending on how much restriction there is in
your heating system.
So far I'm using about 1/2 heat in -15C (5F) weather at 75% throttle and
find it very comfortable. I can't feel any cold drafts at all, and my CO
meter reads 0.0 ppm all the time - except when I take it off to test it by
blowing smoke into it - then it shoots right up to 90+, so it seems to be
working.
If anyone is interested I can get some photos up on my web site.
Curt
Winnipeg, Canada (naturally)
RV-6 C-GACR 85 hours and no way am I stoppin' for winter!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin Heat
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>
> > I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every
> > time I try to check the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is
> > very little if any at all. Just a big blast of air.
>
> There is an optimum volume of air that should pass through the heater
> for the most comfort. Too much air and it won't be warm enough, too
> little and while it will be quite hot, it won't heat the cabin.
> Specifically, it won't drive out the cold drafts. Mine are restricted
> (at the baffle pick off point) almost completely, and there is still
> enough to really get things warm. If I did it again, I'd be tempted to
> use 1" scat, 2" is a major overkill.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | 0-320 D2J Engine for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
Hello Listers
If you know someone looking for an engine,I found this one
on Barnstormer.com.It was removed from a C-172
LYCOMING 0-320-D2J AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE 1145 Hours SMOH. Full
engine assembly. Baffling. Exauhst system. Carb. Air Box. Mags. Starter.
Alternator. Vacuum Pump. Propeller available upon request but not included.
Engine removed from wind damaged airplane. Aircraft logs. No engine damage
history. Contact Michael Berkowitz - METROLINE AVIATION located Troy, MI
USA Telephone: 248 288 6700 Fax: 248 288 6701 Posted November 16,
2003 Show all Ads posted by
Bruno
Do not archive
----
Message 48
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> I use 1" scat for the inlet on our RV-4 cabin heater. I have
> a spring wound around the pipe inside the heat muff,to
> increase the transfer area but not restrict the flow. The
> muff to mixer box scat is 2". I get plenty of heat so far (55 hours).
>
> Bob Olds
> Charleston,Arkansas
Bob, Bob, Bob,
Plenty of heat?? Come on, you didn't think we Minnesotans would
consider your "plenty of heat" to mean much, did you?!? Isn't Arkansas
somewhere way south, near Louisiana or something? Fly that -4 up here
in January, then let's see how the heater works.
All in fun - do not archive.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: 0-320 D2J Engine for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" <karie4@comcast.net>
Just curious, how much? A link to the ad would be nice also. :-)
Karie
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruno" <rv4@videotron.ca>
Subject: RV-List: 0-320 D2J Engine for sale
> --> RV-List message posted by: bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
>
>
> Hello Listers
> If you know someone looking for an engine,I found this
one
> on Barnstormer.com.It was removed from a C-172
>
> LYCOMING 0-320-D2J AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE 1145 Hours SMOH. Full
> engine assembly. Baffling. Exauhst system. Carb. Air Box. Mags. Starter.
> Alternator. Vacuum Pump. Propeller available upon request but not
included.
> Engine removed from wind damaged airplane. Aircraft logs. No engine damage
> history. Contact Michael Berkowitz - METROLINE AVIATION located Troy, MI
> USA Telephone: 248 288 6700 Fax: 248 288 6701 Posted November 16,
> 2003 Show all Ads posted by
>
> Bruno
> Do not archive
>
>
> ----
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy skirt pics and questions. |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
My handle is a piece of 3/4" angle about 2 inches long. Very low drag.
I think my lock is shown in the archives somewhere. I did mine while
parked at Oshkosh as I didn't realize I ought to have a lock till just
before I left. A cheap little lock from the travel trailer shop ..... oh, oh.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 51
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--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Hi Tracy,
Tell us what will power the RV8? Will it be a turbo three rotor?
hal
Message 52
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| Subject: | Airmap: anyone have newest models? |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
I'd like a field report from amyone with experience with the Lowrance Airmap 500
or 1000 models. Thinking about replacing my aging Airmap 300... Are the newer
displays really as white and contrasty as the pictures indicate? My black-on-green
Airmap 300 display is getting hard on these aging eyes, even with bifocal
Serengetti's! Also would like to know if the 1000 is really 2.5 inches thick
(as the website indicates). That seems unbelievable (does it contain its
own Odyssey 17AH battery or something??) but if true it would allow me to eliminate
the 1000 from consideration without further ado (if I wanted a brick to
attach to my panel, I could get one more cheaply at the hardware store ;-)
I think the 500's form factor wil allow direct placement in (on) my panel where
I currently have the 300 velcro'd in place. It also looks like this would be
a decent, though not ideal, car-travel GPS as well, helping me justify the cost
to the wife. Before I shell out 425 bucks (airportpilotshop.com)for an Airmap
500, or twice that for the 1000, I'd love to hear some feedback from actual
users, especially if you're having to peer through +1.5 diopters to see your
digital instrumentation as I have begun doing in the last year.
-Bill B
RV-6A
do not archive
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy skirt pics and questions. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
I would like to see some more shots of the installation. some side shots at
diferent angles, and one front angle with it 2 or 3 inches open, One or two at
a
back angle. move back a little from these two here.
Tnx, Phil
Dana Overall wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> Well, after about two weeks of wondering, looking, wondering, wandering
> around the shop looking, wondering, watching TV, wandering back into the
> shop to look and wonder if it would fit.........................
>
> TaaDaa!!
>
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/skirt1.jpg
>
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/skirt2.jpg
>
> If you can't tell these are the side skirts after attaching the inside
> braces and "massaging" the skirts a little. No wise cracks about massaging
> skirts now:-) They don't hit the top rail nor do they drag when opening. I
> know, I don't have any tape on the inside and I don't have a layer of paint
> on the fuselage nor inside of the skirts. I figure it will be easier to
> work them out a litte as opposed to getting them closer.
>
> I'm pumped:-) Following some instructions in the RVator and pre bending the
> skirts using my knee as an english wheel did the trick. I've pre bent the
> various bends in the aft skirt so they look like they will lie down nice and
> flat without loading the side skirts and pulling them out. I've pre bent
> the lower sections of the aft skirts so if anything they will push in a
> little. That's the plan........the airplane will surely have something to
> say about the final outcome though.
>
> Now all I'm doing is wandering down to the shop and looking.........it's
> just a different kind of looking:-)
>
> As for placing a handle on each side of the canopy, are people just using
> those aft two rivet holes that go into the square tube, drilling them out to
> #30 and poping a couple LP4-4s.
>
> I've checked the archives but does anyone have a picture URL showing a lock?
> I would like to have two positions for locking, one totally closed then
> one with the canopy open about 6 inches......just to keep the honest thief
> honest but allow the cockpit to vent.
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> Finish kit
> Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
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