---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/04/03: 51 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - A Special Thank You - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:02 AM - Re: RV 8 Baffles (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 3. 05:54 AM - Fuel Tank Leaks-Weep Testing (Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com) 4. 06:03 AM - Re: RV 8 Baffles (Bill VonDane) 5. 07:10 AM - Re: AFS Waterbourne painting (P M Condon) 6. 07:24 AM - Re: Cabin Heat (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 7. 07:29 AM - Building solo (C P) 8. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: AFS Waterbourne painting (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 9. 07:59 AM - Re: Building solo (Ed Anderson) 10. 08:00 AM - Re: Building solo (Ron Calhoun) 11. 08:40 AM - Re: Building solo (Boyd Braem) 12. 08:56 AM - Re: Building solo (Keith Vasey) 13. 08:59 AM - Re: AFS Waterbourne painting (Richard Tasker) 14. 09:17 AM - Re: Cabin Heat (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 15. 09:19 AM - Re: Building solo (Jim Jewell) 16. 09:22 AM - Re: Building solo (rebibb@comcast.net) 17. 09:22 AM - Re: Performance Drop (was: Propeller performance testing) (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 18. 09:25 AM - Re: Building solo (Rob Prior) 19. 09:36 AM - Re: Building solo (Richard Tasker) 20. 09:37 AM - primary glider (VAHOWDY@aol.com) 21. 09:49 AM - Re: Building solo (C. Rabaut) 22. 10:34 AM - Re: /Rockets going Up (Tracy Crook) 23. 10:47 AM - Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (HCRV6@aol.com) 24. 10:59 AM - Re: Building solo (N13eer@aol.com) 25. 11:38 AM - Re: Cabin Heat (Alex Peterson) 26. 11:41 AM - Re: /Rockets going Up (Stein Bruch) 27. 12:02 PM - Re: /Rockets going Up (Boyd Braem) 28. 12:41 PM - buying cores (Dave Mader) 29. 01:20 PM - Re: Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (Phil N) 30. 02:04 PM - Re: Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (Bobby Sather) 31. 02:12 PM - Re: Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (John Helms) 32. 02:33 PM - Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (David Carter) 33. 02:34 PM - Re: Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (RV8ter@aol.com) 34. 04:02 PM - Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (James E. Clark) 35. 04:02 PM - Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (Boyd Braem) 36. 04:06 PM - Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (Richard Tasker) 37. 04:19 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (David Carter) 38. 04:23 PM - Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (David Carter) 39. 05:35 PM - Re: Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (HCRV6@aol.com) 40. 06:05 PM - Re: Building solo (Jerry Springer) 41. 06:09 PM - Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... (RV6AOKC@aol.com) 42. 06:43 PM - Re: Amazing story Re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) (Gert) 43. 07:26 PM - Re: Building solo (Curt Hoffman) 44. 07:35 PM - Re: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... (Bill VonDane) 45. 07:48 PM - Re: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... (Gil Alexander) 46. 07:54 PM - Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (Cammie Patch) 47. 08:04 PM - Re: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... (Patty & Dan Krueger) 48. 08:16 PM - Re: /Rockets going Up (Michael McGee) 49. 08:19 PM - Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (Cy Galley) 50. 10:28 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera (David Carter) 51. 11:15 PM - Propeller Performance Testing (Laird Owens) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:35 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: A Special Thank You - List of Contributors --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser was pleasantly successful and I want to thank everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these Lists! Below you will find the complete list of this year's Contributors. Its these great guys that make it all possible! All of the List members owe these special people a debt of gratitude. I would also like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) for again this year providing free and substantially discounted merchandise in support of the Fund Raiser. Andy is a great guy and I encourage you to check out his very nice web site. Thanks again, Andy!! For those of you that ordered gifts with your Contribution, I will be shipping these out over the next few weeks as the merchandise arrives and as I can get all of the orders processed. Its quite a job so I appreciate your patience! I hope to have everything on its way by the end of the month if not sooner. If you would still like to make a Contribution to support the Lists, please feel free to do so! If you'd like to receive one of the awesome free gifts, they will be available on the web page though the end of the month. The Contribution web page can be found here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Finally, I would like to once again sincerely thank each and everyone of you that took the time to make a Contribution to support the Lists this year! Your kind support greatly appreciated! THANK YOU! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Adamson, Arden Akin, Thomas Alber, John Alexander, Don Alexander, George Allender, Pat Allison, Steven Amick, Michael Amundsen, Blair Anderson, Douglas Anderson, Edward Andrews, Myles Anthony, Bruce Applefeld, Gerald Aronson, David Aschliman, Jim Atkinson, Harold Austin, Peter Avant, David Ayers, Jim Babb, Tony Bahrns, Stan Bailey, Rick Baker, Gary Baker, James Baker, Owen Baker, Roger Bales, Robert Ballenger, Jim Balmer, G Banus, Mark Barnett, William Barrie, Darwin Barter, Thomas Basiliere, Richard Bataller, Gary Batte, W.Granville Bean, James Bean, Robert Beard, Harley Becker, Charles Bell, BruceB. Belted, Air Power, Ltd Benham, Dallas Benjamin, Hal Benson, Lonn Benson, Lonnie Berg, Wayne Bergeron, Daniel Bernard, William Berner, Walter Bernier, Jim Berry, Bruce Bertelli, John Bertrand, Carl Berube, Bob Bezzard, Richar Bidle, Jerry Bieberdorf, Roger Bish, Dan Blackwell, Charles Blake, Peter Blank, Steven Blomgren, Jack Bohannon, Larry Bond, Charles Bonsell, Edward Booze, Greg Borne, Chuck Bosomworth, David Boucher, Michel Boulet, Paul Bourne, Larry Bowen, Larry Bowhay, Eustace Brame, Charles Branstrom, Dan Brasch, Glenn Breckenridge, Bruce Brick, John Brogley, Michael Brooks, Chris Brooks, John Brooks, Ken Brooks, William Broomell, Glenn Brown, Gerald R. Bruce, L.B. Bruch, Stein Brunke, Judy Buchanan, Sam Buchmann, Kenneth Buess, Alfred Bullock, Jack Bumhoffer, Al Burke, James Burks, Terrell Burns, John Burton, Charlie Burton, James Burton, Ron Butcher, James Butcher, Ron Butler, Francis Butterfield, John Buyse, Lieven Calhoun, Ron Calloway, Terry Campbell, Greg Cann, Robert Cantrell, Jimmy Capen, Ralph Capra, Salvatore Cardell, William Carden, Richard CarillonSr., Paul Carney, William Carpenter, Kenneth Carr, David Carroll, Randy Carson, Rowland Carter, David Cary, William Challgren, Stanley Chambers, Ken Champ, Nicolas Chandler, Charles Chandler, John Ciolino, John Clark, James Clark, John Clarkson, Scott Clayton, James Cliff, John Cloud, Ralph Clyma, Frank Cochran, Jerry Coffey, John Coggins, Michael Cole, Gary Cole, Gerry Colley, Larry Colucci, Tony Combined, Merchants Combs, Doyle Comer, Dave Comfort, Gordon Compton, Scott Conaway, James Condrey, Bob Cone, James Connell, Joseph Conrad, Gerald Conti, Richard Cook, Craig Cooley, John Cooper, James Corbalis, Leo Corbette, Claude Corder, Michael Corner, Jim Cotter, Tim Cotton, David Cottrell, Larry Coulter, Carlin Coursey, William Courtney, Dean Courtney, James Couture, Wayne Cribb, William Croke, Jon Crook, Tracy Crosby, Harry Crosley, Richard Cruikshank, Bruce D'Onofrio, John Dalstrom, Douglas Dalton, Bob Daniel, Karie Danielsen, HansJurgen Darby, Frank Daudt, Larry Davenport, Jimmy Davidson, Adam And Janet Davidson, Jeff Davies, Brian Davis, Charles Davis, Chris Davis, Nathan Davis, Peter Davis, Terry Dawson , Clif Dawson, Garth DeJong, Jan Dearinger, William Decramer, Dick Deford, David Denham, Bob Dennis, Chris Derouchey, Bill Desmond, Richard Devaney, Bob Devere, Al Diehl, Don Diffenbaugh, Scott Disher, John Dixon, Thomas (Steve) Dominy, Ken Donaldson, Norman Doran, Thomas Dresden, Robert Driscoll, Patrick Dube, Bill Dudley, Richard Duffy, Russell Dukerich, Thomas Dumoret, Paul Eagleston, Ron Eckel, John Edwards, Garland Edwards, Joseph Eginton, William Eli, Robert Ellenberger, Mike Elliott, Andrew Ellison, Craig Enga, Wallace Engh, Duncan Enns, Dennis Erb, Bob Erickson, Alan Erickson, Gerald Erikson, Donald Ervin, Tom Erwin, Chip Esterhuizen, Deon Etherington, Al Evans, Walt Evenson, Roger Fackler, Ken Faris, Kevin Farmer, Daniel Fasching, John Feldmann, StephenW. Ferrer, Gabriel Finley, John Finley, Jon Fischer, Doug Fishe, JF Fisher, Dru Fisher, Michael Fisher, Tom Fitzpatrick, Robert Flamini, Dennis Flavin, John Fleck, Joe Foerster, James Fogerson, Richard Forrest, Gerald Fox, Byron Franz, Carl Frazier, Ford Frazier, Vince Friedland, Thomas Frizzell, Alex Frye, Dwight Fulgham, W.R. Fulmer, JosephA Fux, Franz Gagnon, Laurent Gagnon, Tim Galati, Rick Gallagher, Noel Galley, Cy Gantzer, Charles Gardner, Albert Gardner, Terrence Garner, Mitchell Gates, Leo Gawronski, Brian Gaylen Lerohl, Terminaltown Geldermann, Dan Genzlinger, Reade George, William Gerken, James German, Mark Gernetzke-hays, Jill Gherardini, Don Giacona, William Giddens, Gerald Gillespie, Dick Giusti, Roberto Glass, Roy Golden, Shane Gonzalez, Jorge Goode, Richard Goodings, John Goodman, David Goolsby, JamesE. Gordon, Keith Gott, Shelby Goudinoff, Peter Gowing, John Grabb, Gary Graber, Joel Graham, Gary Graham, Jim Graham, W.Doyce Grant, Jordan Grebe, David Green, Luther Green, Roger Greenough, Jim Gregory, Michael Griffin, Bill Griffin, James Griffin, Robert Grosse, John Gustafson, Aaron Haertlein, Frank Hagar, Steve Haley, Gary Hallsten, Keith Hamer, Steve Hamilton, William J Hand, Chris Hankins, Roger Hankinson, Jimmy Harbour, Keith Hardaway, Mike Harding, Joel Harmon, John Harrison, Nigel Hartwig, Richard Harvey, Dale Hasper, Jim Hatch, Pat Hatcher, Edmund Hatfield, Cecil Jr. Hauck, JohnR Haynes, Joel Heath, Donald Hefner, Jim Heindl, Karl Heitman, Christopher Helming, Larry Heritch, Ian Herminghaus, John Herren, Bill Hetrick, Dale Heykoop, John Hibbing, William Hill, Jeff Hill, Ken Hill, Stanley A Himes, Joe Hinrichsen, Jim Hodgson, Mark Hodgson, Robert Hoffman, Carl Hoffman, Curtis Hoffmann, Thomas Hohos, Charles Holifield, Steve Holland, Mike Holland, Rick Holmes, Tom Hood, Bill Hooper, Gerald Hooper, Randy Horton, Kevin Hostetler, Donald Howell, Pete Howerton, Bill Hubbard, Eugene Hudson, Jeff Hueltz, Wolfgang Huff, Scott Huft, John Hughes, Robert Hulen, Fred Humbert, Robert Humes, Hubert Humes, Hugh Humphrey, Roger Hunt, Peter Hunt, Wallace G Hurd, James Hurst, Kingsley Hutchison, Tom Hyde, David Ice, Michael Iddon, Richard Irvin, Robert Isler, Jerry Jackson, Kevin Jacobson, Marshall Jannakos, Gregory Jaussi, Curtis Jenkins, John Jensen, Jerry Jewell, James Johannsson, Johann G. John Allen Hurn, Hurns Aircraft Johnsen, Svein Johnson, Bruce Johnson, Dale Johnson, Dennis Johnson, Les Johnson, Murray Johnson, Robert Johnston, Stephen Jones, Eric Joosten, Craig Jordan, JR Joyce, David Jurotich, Matthew Kahn, Steve Kaluza, Charles Karmy, Andrew Kaser, Jim Kayner, Dennis Kellum, Mark Kempthorne, Hal Kent, John Kerr, John Kerr, Joseph Kesterton, Donald Kilburg, Larry Killion, Clay Kimsey, Thomas Kinney, Kevin Kirby, Graham Kirk, Tony Knepper, Harold Knoll, Lynn Kohn, Carl Koonce, R.L. Kosta, Michael Kottke, Dwight Kovac, Harold Kramer, Ed Krasinski, Jerzy Krok, Peter Krueger, Grant Kunkel, Fred Kuntz, Paul Kyle, Fergus Lahey, Jim Laird, Dave Laishes, Jeff Lally, Sean Lalonde, Bart Landucci, Larry Lannon, W. Lasecki, Robert Laurie, Kip Laverty, Charles Lavigne, Pat Lawliss, James Lawrence, Derek Lawton, John Ledbetter, Gene Ledoux, Paul Lee, Terrence Lefler, Fabian Lekven, Carl Lemen, Ted Lenton, Dennis Leonard, Nicolas Leslie, George Lewis, Terry Lewis, Tim Licking, Larry Lifer, Craig Liming, Gary Linebaugh, Jeff Linse, Michael Lloyd, Brian Long, Charles Long, Eugene Long, Patrick Loubert, Gary Mack, Don Mackay, Alex Madden, Peter Magsam, Del Mahr, Egon Mains, Ralph Malich, Gunter Markle, Jim Markwell, Cleone Marshall, F.R. Marshall, Nigel Marson, Thomas Martin, Bryan Martin, Clifford Martin, Richard Mason, Ron Matteson, Robert Maxson, Phillip Maynor, Troy Mcallister, Paul Mcbride, Duncan Mccallister, Donald Mccallum, Bob Mccutchan, Bruce Mcfarland, Larry Mcfarland, Randy Mcfarlane, Lloyd Mcgregor, Bruce Mcintosh, Wayne Mcintyre, Jay Mckervey, Joseph Mcleod, Neil Mcmanus, Jim Medeiros, Joel Meehan, Don Mekeel, DonaldE Melenyzer, Charles IV Merchant, Dean Merrill, Dj Messinger, Paul Meyette, Brian Michel, Riazuelo Miller, David Miller, Mark Miller, Robert Miller, Warren Mills, Moe Mills, William Milner, Gregory Milner, Red Mineart, Stephen Mitchell, HD Moak, Ken Montagne, Raymond Montgomery, Dale Moore, David Moore, Glenn Moore, Marbert Moore, Warren Morawski, Brett Morelli, William Morin, Mauri Morrison, Douglas Morrison, Malcolm Morrow, Dan Mosher, Doc Mosier, Colby Mrotzek, Dan Muegge, James Murphy, George Murray, Ronald Murrill, Robert Myers, John Myhra, Donald Nascimento, Marcio Nash, Simon Neilsen, Richard Nelson, William Nicely, Vincent Nickless, Jim Nickson, Dennis Nolan, Jim North, Wheeler Noyer, Robert Nyman, Stephen O'Brien, Dan O'Donnell, David O'Reilly, Colm Oberst, James Oconnor, Edward Ohlinger, Judith Ohlinger, Mark & Judy Okeefe, Lawrence Oldford, David Olendorf, James Orear, Jeff Otaola, Ricardo Ouellette, Will Overall, Dana Owens, Duane Owens, Phil Packard, Tom Parker, Dennis Parks, Dann Partyka, LeeM Patsey, Kevin Patterson, Ron Payne, Craig Payne, Ron Pelletier, Dave Perez, M. Domenic Perkins, Stan Perry, John Petaccia, Ettore Peterson, Alex Peterson, David Peterson, Paul Petri, David Pettey, Don Petty, Paul Pflimlin, Paul Pfundt, Jan Phillips, Mark Phillips, Russell Pierce, Tony Pike, Richard Pilling, Kevin Pinkston, Gordon Plecenik, Michael Pocock, Graham Point, Jeff Porter, Richard Potter, Lee Powell, Jim Powell, Ken Preston, Douglas Pritchard, Roger Proctor, Joe Puckett, Greg Puglise, James Rabaut, Charles Raby, Ron Randolph, George Ray, Rick Ray, Rob Reading, Thomas Sr Red Dragon Aviation Reeck, Kris And Art Reel, David Reese, Wayne Reeves, William Reimer, Curt Render, James Repucci, William Reuschle, Jeffrey Reusser, Hans-Peter Reynolds, Richard Rice, James Richards, Stephen Richardson, Colin Richardson, Scott Richter, Randall Rickard, Ian Rickman, Loy Rigby, David Riley, Stuart Ringrose, Andrew Robert, Nuckolls Roberts, Gary Roberts, Jeffrey Roberts, John Rodebush, James Rodriguez, Paul Roehr, Mike Romine, Chris Ross, Chris Ross, William Rourke, John Rozendaal, Doug Russell, E.Frank Russell, Jack Russell, Keith Ryan, Mike Sa, Carlos Saffold, Michael Sager, Truman Salter, Phillip Sanders, Andrew Sapp, Doug Sargent, Thomas Satterlee, Robert Sax, Samuel Schaefer, Steven Schertz, William Schieber, Cedrdic Schilling, Karl Schlafly, Fred Schlatterer, Bill Schmidt, Gregory Schmidt, John & Patty Schneider, Werner Schnitzlein, C.E. Schoenberger, H.Robert Schrimmer, Mark Schroeder, Fire Schroeder, John Schumacher, Roger Scott, James Scott, Troy Scroggs, Ross Seaford, Jack Seal, John Selby, Jim, Sr. & Jr. Selinger, Carsten Selix, Richard Setser, David Settlemyer, Art Shank, William Shaw, Cliff Shepherd, Dallas Shepherd, Stanislaus Shipley, Rob Shipley, Walt Shipp, Garry Shumaker, Robert Siegfried, Bob Sigmon, Harvey Silvanic, Ed Simmons, Kendall Simpkins, Shaun Simpson, Randy Sinclair, Michael Sipp, Richard Skelly, Brian Sletten, Mark Sloan, Alex Smith, Danny L Smith, David Smith, Edmond Smith, Gene Smith, Kirk Smith, Lloyd Smith, Rodney Smith, Ronald Smith, Simon Snedaker, Robert Sobel, Martin Solecki, John Sorensen, Kent Sorensen, Lance Spainhower, Craig Sparks, Timothy Spence, Stephen Spencer, Russell Springer, Jerry Staley, Dick Starn, John H. "kabong" Stewart, Michael Stewart, Paul Stewart, Shannon Stone, Christopher Stout, Randall Strawn, David Strong, Gary Strong, Tom Stuart, Clay Sutterfield, Stan Swaney, Mark Swanson, Ronald Swartzendruber, David Sweeney, Timothy Swinford, George Szantho, JohnB. Szarafinski, Roy Szentmiklosi, Mark Tarmar, Brian Tasker, Richard Textor, Jack Thesee, Gilles Thomas, Bruce Thomas, Gummo Thomas, Lee Thomason, Michael Thompson, Scott Thomure, Randall Thwing, Randy Titcomb, Edward Tomlin, Thomas Tower, John Tracy, Roger Trainer, Dave Trombley, Erich Trost, Sebastian Trumpfheller, Bob Tuton, Beauford Twigg, Alan Tyler, George Unruh, Brian Unternaehrer, Rolf Utter, Bob Van Winkle, Dean VanHeeswijk, Jack VanHeuveln, Lemar VanSchoonhoven, Peter Vanartsdalen, Scott Vandenbroek, Martin Vangrunsven, Stan Vaughan, Cye Vaughn, John Verdev, Victor Vervoort-Woestenburg, Jef Vincent, Bill Vogt, Gary VonRuden, Dennis Vormbaum, John Voss, Richard Vranken, Karel Wagoner, Richard Waldal, Art B. Walker, Dale Walker, Tommy Walker, Weston Walrath, Howard Walsh, Denis Ward, Timothy Washburn, Oliver Watson, Richard Watson, Terrence Watters, Daniel Weaver, Erich Weaver, Fred Webb, Randol Weber, Edward Webster, Tom Weese, Brian Weiler, Douglas Whelan, Thomas Whiteley, Kenneth Whiteside, Eric Whittier, Lavoy (aka Bucky) Wigney, John Wiley, Robert Williams , John Williams, Hildred Williams, Jeff Williams, Lawrence Williams, Terry Williamson, John Willig, Louis Wilson, Christopher Wilson, Kelly Wimmer, Thomas Wingard, David Winings, James Winne, Edward Woboril, David Wood, Frank Wood, Larry Woods, Donald Woods, Harold Wright, Roy Wsiaki, Michael Wymer, Jerry Yager, Jack Yamokoski, William Young, Rollin Zaric, Radomir Zheng, Andrew Zilik, Gary Zinkham, Ralph Zollinger, Duane Zuniga, Oscar ------------------- 2003 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I did not see a single picture of the air seals the poster was requesting. Am I missing something? Mike Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane rv8list@yahoogroups.com; OhioValleyRVators@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles.htm http://www.vafml.org/members/rlynn/page2.htm -Bill VonDane RV-8A - Colorado www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Grajek" ; Subject: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" Does anyone have any good pictures of the completed baffles ( particularly the air seals), on the 8 or any RV? The instructions leave a lot to be desired. I cant tell how to trim the seals once they are done. Thanks Al Grajek Baffled! = == == == == ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:33 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Fuel Tank Leaks-Weep Testing From: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com 12/04/2003 08:49:51 AM --> RV-List message posted by: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com Do not be tricked into thinking that a pressurized air/bubble test will find leaks in you fuel tanks. I hate to admit that I have become educated about fuel weeps...much harder to find than leaks. Bubble tests will show obvious leaks and are a great way to start proofing your tanks. I went to the next level of testing- long term weep testing. I went to an auto parts store and bought some ultraviolet dye for leak testing and added it to four gallons of auto fuel. The fuel becomes florescent yellow. Be smart and ground your fuel tank to a good ground and then ground your gas can to the fuel tank before pouring...very important now that the dry air of winter is here. Set the tank up and let it sit in one position for a week or so and take a look at your rivets to see if there are signs of weeping. Rotate the tank to expose untested areas to the fuel and wait another week. I found five rivets that weeped fuel during my testing. All were on the rear baffle to skin joint. These weeps probably don't amount to much loss of fuel, but I am sure that had I waited until after painting to add fuel, my paint would have blistered over the weep sites. The normal green Loc Tite fix didn't solve the problem for me, so I had to go back into the tank. The only good thing that has come out of all of this (Other than teaching me patience) is that I found that my inverted fuel tank flapper valve had sealed itself shut (or almost so) with a tiny dot of proseal when I closed the rear baffle up. Had I not gone back into the tank, I would have found that the inner-most bay would have taken a lonnnng time to fill with fuel and would require addressing down the road. I designed the flapper valve with an intentional leak that would allow fuel to still feed the engine in case the valve became stuck, (Engineering around potential failure modes) so the engine would have been fine. Don Alexander RV-8 Fuselage ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:54 AM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" Hmmm... I guess I only have one photo of the seal material on my baffles, but the second link has a bunch on photos of the completed baffles and seal material... Or maybe I just didn't understand the question... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I did not see a single picture of the air seals the poster was requesting. Am I missing something? Mike Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane rv8list@yahoogroups.com; OhioValleyRVators@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles.htm http://www.vafml.org/members/rlynn/page2.htm -Bill VonDane RV-8A - Colorado www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Grajek" ; Subject: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" Does anyone have any good pictures of the completed baffles ( particularly the air seals), on the 8 or any RV? The instructions leave a lot to be desired. I cant tell how to trim the seals once they are done. Thanks Al Grajek Baffled! = == == == == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:37 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: RV-List: Re: AFS Waterbourne painting --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon In reply to your recent post on AFS: AFS provides more then one waterborne paint system. My comments were on the two part polyurathane waterborne offering from AFS. Here is a clip from their web site: PRODUCT DESCRIPTION ".....Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne TWO-PART POLYURETHANE TOPCOAT is a solvent free, water dispersible polyisocyanate. It provides outstanding coverage, excellent durability, and ease of application as well as being a low VOC and EPA compliant coating. Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne Two-Part Polyurethane Topcoat offers superior adhesion and has film properties that exceed most solvent based catalyzed polyurethane systems......" Notice the mention of ISO's in the description. Also, nowhere in the AFS website is there mention of safety or breathing concerns. I think it only prudent to error on the save side when using this(or any) Polyurathane paint by using the proper breathing equipment. --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker I talked to Terry at AFS and specifically asked the question about external breathing air. She said that it is unnecessary, that a good cartridge system provides all the protection needed. Their system does not generate the poisonous products that the solvent based products do. I suggest that you might want to talk to them. I don't know what your qualifications are, but I have to assume that since AFS uses their own products in their shop, they know what they are talking about and are not slowly poisoning there entire workforce. This is not my opinion, just my $0.02 based on my discussion with AFS. Dick Tasker, RV9A 90573 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:52 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin Heat --> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Steve, Actually you need to restrict the airflow OUT of the heat muff. I used a piece of duct tape (temporary fix) over 25% the hole through the fire wall. Slows the air down through the heat muff so it has a chance to heat up. Noel RV-6A Phase I complete in 10 days at temperatures from +10C -15C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Glasgow Subject: RV-List: Cabin Heat --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" Greetings, I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every time I try to check the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is very little if any at all. Just a big blast of air. My instillation is a standard heater mounted on the right exhaust with air drawn from the aft baffle on the # 3 cylinder. The air is ducted to the heater with 2" SCAT and then to a standard air box mounted on the firewall entering the cabin between the rudder pedals. Several hours ago I installed some "chor boy" copper scrubber pads in the heater but there was no noticeable difference. I'm thinking I may need to restrict some of the air flow in the intake. Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks ! Steve Glasgow ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:56 AM PST US From: C P Subject: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: C P Hi, I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and buck for myself if that is possible... cheers, Chuck RV grin installed in August '01 __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:44 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: RV-List: re: AFS Waterbourne painting --> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" I have really been looking for a place to buy the Glasurit waterborne pants. Were can I get this and how do you like it? I have been looking for a good paint and from the specifications this seams very nice. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel@blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon Subject: RV-List: re: AFS Waterbourne painting --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon Don't be fooled into thinking this is a entirely "safe" product. Waterborne paint products are offered by most all the paint companys. BASF, PPG, Dupont & S/W all offer a Waterborne paint product. (I just completed a small project using BASF Glasurit 90 series waterborne). In ASF's case, water is used, in small portions, as a thinner but this ASF product is a 2K paint system and you do add the hardener component when mixing this paint for spray application. This hardener component is where the ISO's are introduced and you still need a positive air breathing system to cope with the ISO's. You are right in that there is less "solvent" smell; in my experience the solvent smell disapates rather quickly anyway. You should be VERY concerned with the breathing air and the effects of the ISO's in the air that may linger. In a closed environment, you may have less detectable, noticable smell in the waterborne product but the bad components of the polyurathane you are spraying are still present......you just can't smell them due to lack of trace "solvent" fumes.... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:44 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Chuck, I had a simlar problem - my wife's view was "that's YOUR project". I found that I could rivet it all with two hands (not always easily though). I stand 5' 9" with proprotional arm length. Actually there were two places where I had to have help and she did assit there. One was the second bulkhead behind the baggage compartment - just could not reach from the baggage compartment or the tail cone and hold both the bucking bar and rivet gun on a rivet there. The second place was where the aluminum floor sheet between the firewall and the spare area needed riviting near the spar area (seems like there may have been a couple of rivet lines in that area). It would appear that a QB kit would eliminate those two problem areas (and many other). Also, I think you will get a consistently better driven rivet when you have a bucking partner or at least don't have to stretch for those distant rivets - but it can be done. FWIW Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "C P" Subject: RV-List: Building solo > --> RV-List message posted by: C P > > Hi, > > I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one > notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus > pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to > get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area > I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky > schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, > slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do > solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's > help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and > buck for myself if that is possible... > > cheers, > Chuck > RV grin installed in August '01 > > > __________________________________ > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:09 AM PST US From: "Ron Calhoun" Subject: RE: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Calhoun" Chuck, I too have long arms and I built my -4 by myself. I bet I did not have help bucking rivets more than five times during construction. Just a little planning. Ron RV-4 Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P Subject: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: C P Hi, I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and buck for myself if that is possible... cheers, Chuck RV grin installed in August '01 __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem DO NOT BUILD A PULLED-RIVET AIRPLANE. Bradley, Zenith, what ever--so sue me. Boyd. New Zealand. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:41 AM PST US From: "Keith Vasey" Subject: RE: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Vasey" Chuck, I have an -8QB project and am at the point where all the riveting is done. Throughout the process, my wife has been very supportive of me working on it by myself. I did get some help from a friend on bucking the horizontial stab. Nevertheless, I believe a QB is very doable without assistance and I'm guessing a standard kit would be less "solo" friendly. Keith Vasey Seattle -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P Subject: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: C P Hi, I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and buck for myself if that is possible... cheers, Chuck RV grin installed in August '01 __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:13 AM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: RV-List: Re: AFS Waterbourne painting --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker That is the paint that I talked to Terry about and that I have purchased. - the two part polyurethane - and she said that a respirator was not needed. I don't remember the technical details of her explanation, but it was something about there being no free isocyanates in the catalyzed paint. As I said, they use this paint in their shop. Maybe you could call them and get an independent confirmation/refutation of this issue regarding their paint. Dick Tasker P M Condon wrote: >In reply to your recent post on AFS: AFS provides more then one >waterborne paint system. My comments were on the two part polyurathane >waterborne offering from AFS. Here is a clip from their web site: > > >PRODUCT DESCRIPTION >".....Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne TWO-PART POLYURETHANE >TOPCOAT is a >solvent free, water dispersible polyisocyanate. It provides outstanding >coverage, excellent durability, and ease of application as well as being >a low >VOC and EPA compliant coating. Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne >Two-Part >Polyurethane Topcoat offers superior adhesion and has film properties >that >exceed most solvent based catalyzed polyurethane systems......" > > >Notice the mention of ISO's in the description. Also, nowhere in the AFS >website is there mention of safety or breathing concerns. I think it >only prudent to error on the save side when using this(or any) >Polyurathane paint by using the proper breathing equipment. > >--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker > >I talked to Terry at AFS and specifically asked the question about >external breathing air. She said that it is unnecessary, that a good >cartridge system provides all the protection needed. Their system does >not generate the poisonous products that the solvent based products do. > >I suggest that you might want to talk to them. I don't know what your >qualifications are, but I have to assume that since AFS uses their own >products in their shop, they know what they are talking about and are >not slowly poisoning there entire workforce. > >This is not my opinion, just my $0.02 based on my discussion with AFS. > >Dick Tasker, RV9A 90573 > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:22 AM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin Heat --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" I put an aluminum restrictor plate with a 3/8" hole on the baffle at the entrance to the heater scat tube. It works well and lets the heater put warmer air into the cabin. It probably helps for summer cooling too, as less cooling air in the plenum escapes out into the heater muff. I've got a single heater muff on the right side which was fine for Albuquerque where I built my -6. It's not really enough for cold Winter Park. Had I known I'd be living up here at the time I would have put in dual systems on each side. Actually, its only a problem on cloudy days and real early in the morning. When the sun is out mid day, its never too cold under the big canopy. Andy Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:55 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Chuck, Yes you will have some tasks such as the hard to reach rivets that do require assistance. The old saw " two heads are better than one" still applies ( the pun is gratis) g-} There are so many builders out there, that unless you are way ...---...out in the boonies it should not be difficult to get assistance as needed. Tell the list where geographically you plan to build and my guess is someone will be in range to help. Some guys will do anything for an excuse to fly somewhere and be helpful. A lunch and a beer or two and Bobs your uncle. Caution!! more than a few beers and he might wind up being your long lost son!! ~~Hic! {[:) If you are in a remote area it might take more planning but it is done by people all over the world. The local shop class instructor might have in mind someone with the right skills. If you reside in North America, the EAA in the US or the RAA in Canada are good sources of information and assistance etc. As the wings and much of the fuse are built the Q-build kits do reduce the helper required time but some assistance is still needed. Careful assembly order planning can reduce the need for a helper to a degree similar to or at least close to the Q-build requirements. Every bit of information you cold imagine is in the RV-List archives. Where to, how to, why to It takes a while to get onto how to ask the right questions but it is all there. I think you will find the RV group just as helpful as any other group that start out to build a project and wind up sharing a passion. The friends met along the way will add that something extra that cannot be explained. Happy building, whatever apssion you choose, Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "C P" Subject: RV-List: Building solo > --> RV-List message posted by: C P > > Hi, > > I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one > notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus > pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to > get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area > I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky > schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, > slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do > solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's > help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and > buck for myself if that is possible... > > cheers, > Chuck > RV grin installed in August '01 > > > __________________________________ > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:03 AM PST US From: rebibb@comcast.net Subject: RE: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: rebibb@comcast.net I built an RV-4 the old, "hard" way almost entirely alone. I did get help from a friend to rivet the top skin on the fuselage but did all the rest alone. It can be done. > --> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Vasey" > > Chuck, > > I have an -8QB project and am at the point where all the riveting is done. > Throughout the process, my wife has been very supportive of me working on it > by myself. I did get some help from a friend on bucking the horizontial > stab. Nevertheless, I believe a QB is very doable without assistance and I'm > guessing a standard kit would be less "solo" friendly. > > Keith Vasey > Seattle > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Building solo > > > --> RV-List message posted by: C P > > Hi, > > I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one > notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus > pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to > get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area > I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky > schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, > slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do > solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's > help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and > buck for myself if that is possible... > > cheers, > Chuck > RV grin installed in August '01 > > > __________________________________ > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:59 AM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Performance Drop (was: Propeller performance testing) --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com In a message dated 12/03/2003 5:17:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, gcomfo@tc3net.com writes: Jim: This is good to know. It implies that the MT doesn't have the performance drop above 2500 that the Hartzell seems to have. If you do get them to build what you refer to as a racing prop, it would be interesting to know how it compares with others at cruise rpm's. Gordon Comfort N363GC Hi All, I am seeing a performance drop with the Hartzell propeller in my test results at 2700 RPM at 7,500' pressure altitude only. At higher, or lower, altitudes, I don't see this airspeed drop off. Perhaps air is nonlinear. One factor that is unclear to me is that the propeller near the tip is operating in the transonic speed range. (I have seen propeller tip "design" velocities of Mach 0.99 at 2700 RPM.) I guess that's why I'm trying to gather empirical data. Jim Ayers ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:20 AM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior Boyd Braem wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > DO NOT BUILD A PULLED-RIVET AIRPLANE. Sorry in advance to the other listers, but even though i'm building an RV-7 I have to speak up against this idiotic claptrap. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a pulled-rivet airplane. My structures course at university analyzed the Murphy Rebel for an entire semester, and i'd be building one of them instead if I didn't want to be doing aerobatics and flying formation too. The aerobatic part I could fix, but the lack of visibility for formation makes the Rebel impractical for me. It does edge out the RV in terms of back-country capability, though. -Rob do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:56 AM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker I am building a 9A and so far I have done everything myself. I have not done the top skins of the fuselage yet however and I suspect I may ned help there for a few rivets. Dick Tasker, 90573. Keith Vasey wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Vasey" > >Chuck, > >I have an -8QB project and am at the point where all the riveting is done. >Throughout the process, my wife has been very supportive of me working on it >by myself. I did get some help from a friend on bucking the horizontial >stab. Nevertheless, I believe a QB is very doable without assistance and I'm >guessing a standard kit would be less "solo" friendly. > >Keith Vasey >Seattle > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Building solo > > >--> RV-List message posted by: C P > >Hi, > >I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one >notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus >pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to >get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area >I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky >schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, >slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do >solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's >help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and >buck for myself if that is possible... > >cheers, >Chuck >RV grin installed in August '01 > > >__________________________________ >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:17 AM PST US From: VAHOWDY@aol.com Subject: RV-List: primary glider --> RV-List message posted by: VAHOWDY@aol.com Hi, does anyone have plans for a primary glider from the 50's or 60's ? Thanks, Howdy ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:11 AM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" Boyd, Since when did you move to "New Zealand" ? Chuck do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Boyd Braem Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo > --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > > DO NOT BUILD A PULLED-RIVET AIRPLANE. > > Bradley, Zenith, what ever--so sue me. > > Boyd. > New Zealand. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:20 AM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: /Rockets going Up --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" Yep, I've seen you climb out and it's pretty impressive. But you're on, I shall take up the gauntlet! I'll spot you your constant speed prop (I'll be fixed pitch) against my lower weight and more wing area. Now if I can just get these EM2 engine monitors out the door so I can finish the -8 ............. Tracy do not archive this testosterone laced hangar flying :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Boyd Braem Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries/Rockets going Up --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Woah!, there Tracy--Out climb a Rocket!? Stop by the other side of the state (Venice (VNC), FL--on the Gulf) and we'll do a little head-to-head or, more likely, head-to-TAIL. I get an honest 4,200 ft/min when I point my nose at God (like he/she could really care!), but, you never know, maybe he/she likes the attention. I also have 160 hp at 50% power. I get about 2,500 ft in a straight vertical climb before I have to kick rudder, and pivot, on a really good day--seems like it used to be more, before my divorce--but, I digress--still, I love that woman, so much--and I'm sure you guys really want to hear about it. Yeah. Boyd. Super 6 Venice, FL ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:08 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Although I hate to contribute to the non-RV building noise on this list, this factual report on the DHL incident from an incident investigator may be of interest to some of you, if not delete now, and my apologies to anyone offended: >Amazing that the crew was able to land the plane. >Subject: Fw: FW: Testimony to an A300B4 (Missile Damage to Airbus A-300) ----- Original Message ----- > > Brian H. Shorb > Acquisition Technical Support (G-A-2) > Room 5116, Telephone (202) 267-0464 > BShorb@comdt.uscg.mil > > > -----Original Message----- > To those of you who are wondering what happened to the DHL A300B4 coming > out of Baghdad last Saturday, take a look. > > Aircraft was hit at 8000 FT, lost ALL hydraulics and therefore had no > flight controls, actually did a missed approach using only engine thrust > and eventually (after about 16mins) landed heavily on runway 33L at Baghdad. > This was fortunate because with no steering the aircraft veered off the > runway to the left, had they landed on 33R veering to the left would have > taken them straight into the fire station. > > The aircraft then travelled about 600 metres through soft sand taking out a > razor wire fence in the process, see LH engine pic, and came to rest almost > at the bottom of the sloping area between the runway and a taxiway. > > All three crew evacuated safely down the second slide, the first one tore > on the razor wire. > > I flew in with a team on Tuesday in one of our Metros and some special > equipment we'd had made locally in Bahrain and some provided by Airbus. > Using a USAF D9 Caterpillar pulling a 100 metre cable fitted to the back > end of each bogie and a nice new aircraft pushback tug with a towbar on the > nose gear, we were able to remove the aircraft just on dusk on Tuesday night > and towed it to an Iraqi Airways graveyard on one side of the terminal. > > We stayed overnight in the USAF camp on the airport and went back to the > aircraft on Wednesday morning to allow the insurance survey to be completed > and then secure the aircraft. > > Basically, LH engine rotates in a fashion, has ingested lots of razor wire > and is knackered. RH engine has seized, probably from ingesting loads of > sand at maximum reverse thrust and inlet cowl has unacceptable lip damage, > probably from hitting the razor wire fence posts. > > The No 8 axle appears to be cracked as the wheel sits at an odd angle. > > The bulk of the damage is the LH wing. About 3 metres of rear spar is > missing in front of the outboard flap, the wing has bulged upwards and > downwards where the initial explosion appears to have occurred, one O/B > flap track is hanging in the breeze and one has a small piece of flap still > attached, the rest of the flap is nonexistent. The pics show the huge crack > that has occurred to the rear spar inboard of where the spar has burnt > away, possibly from loads on the wing during the landing process. The front > spar appears to be intact. > > The point of entry pics show where a projectile entered Tank 1A, which was > full of fuel, and, after it ignited, proceeded to burn away at the spar. > The fuel tank ribs in the area directly in front of the O/B flap are burnt > almost 50% through. > > The crew obviously did a fantastic job in getting the aircraft back on to > the ground and one can only assume that it was most fortunate that they > were not aware of the state of the wing as they could not see it from the > cockpit. > > It also says a lot for the structure of the aircraft that it withstood the > impact of the (whatever is finally determined to have hit it). > > I'm sure there will be lots of other photos and videos flying around the > net, but at least these ones are genuine. > > The worst part for us was the airport was shut down on Wednesday and we had > to be driven in an armour-plated Landcruiser Troop Carrier from Baghdad to > Balad, 60 miles to the north, from where we flew back to Bahrain in our > Metro again. > > I trust you will all appreciate just how lucky these guys were. > > Regards, > > > DHL International Aviation, > > Bahrain. DO NOT ARCHIVE Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:23 AM PST US From: N13eer@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com Chuck, I don't think you are going to build any plane solo, pulled or smashed rivets. At some point your going to need a hand moving things or something. However there is an answer, join a local EAA chapter and make some friends. Your not going need help riveting all the time just an hand once in a while. When I rivited my wing top skins on I had everything ready and has a buddy come by. We did both wing in about 3 hours. Also it does not take an airplane nut to rivet, you could train a ape to run a rivet gun in about 5 minutes. Go to a meeting and make some friends, Just don't let them talk you into an officer position until your done building. Alan Kritzman RV-8 115 hours EAA Chapter 33 Vice President In a message dated 12/4/2003 10:29:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, C P writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: C P > >Hi, > >I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one >notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus >pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to >get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area >I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky >schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, >slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do >solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's >help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and >buck for myself if that is possible... > >cheers, >Chuck > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:28 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin Heat --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > Actually you need to restrict the airflow OUT of the heat > muff. I used a piece of duct tape (temporary fix) over 25% > the hole through the fire wall. Slows the air down through > the heat muff so it has a chance to heat up. > Shouldn't matter where the flow is restricted, just so that it is. However, probably better to restrict the inlet, since these things leak a bit, and it is better to leak air before the heater than after it (from a heater efficiency point of view). Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 422 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:57 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: /Rockets going Up --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" OK...who's the bookie here and what are the odds....Should I put $5.00 on Boyd, or $5.00 on Tracy. The problem is, I'd like to see both of them win! Cheers, Stein Do Not Archive! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Subject: Re: RV-List: /Rockets going Up --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" Yep, I've seen you climb out and it's pretty impressive. But you're on, I shall take up the gauntlet! I'll spot you your constant speed prop (I'll be fixed pitch) against my lower weight and more wing area. Now if I can just get these EM2 engine monitors out the door so I can finish the -8 ............. Tracy do not archive this testosterone laced hangar flying :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Boyd Braem Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries/Rockets going Up --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Woah!, there Tracy--Out climb a Rocket!? Stop by the other side of the state (Venice (VNC), FL--on the Gulf) and we'll do a little head-to-head or, more likely, head-to-TAIL. I get an honest 4,200 ft/min when I point my nose at God (like he/she could really care!), but, you never know, maybe he/she likes the attention. I also have 160 hp at 50% power. I get about 2,500 ft in a straight vertical climb before I have to kick rudder, and pivot, on a really good day--seems like it used to be more, before my divorce--but, I digress--still, I love that woman, so much--and I'm sure you guys really want to hear about it. Yeah. Boyd. Super 6 Venice, FL ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: /Rockets going Up From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Stein-- I really like what Tracy is doing because that 20B engine (esp. if you blow some air in to it) is wicked, but nice, like this girl I used to date, she had these long legs..... Anyway, if he gets a package together, I'll be getting a new airplane. Boyd do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:04 PM PST US From: "Dave Mader" Subject: RV-List: buying cores --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" While rebuilding the engine on my first RV6, I acquired the name of a company that would buy cores. I didn't need the starter or generator (went to a lightweight starter and alternator. This company was in Okla. I believe, but I can't for the life of me, find a record of it or who it was. I'm now in the process of rebuilding an 0-360 for my second RV project and have a low-time starter I would like to replace (too heavy) and another alternator that I don't need (24 volt). Anybody know of a company/individual that is willing to buy cores? Thanks... Dave Mader 1/2 way through 2nd 6 project ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:58 PM PST US From: "Phil N" Subject: RE: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" Don't ask where they came from. Pics of the airplane are at: http://www.toosan.com/misc/DHL_SAM_Attack.jpg http://www.toosan.com/misc/DHL_SAM_Attack2.jpg http://www.toosan.com/misc/DHL_SAM_Attack3.jpg I have more at work that I'll post tomorrow. Phil Do not archive > Although I hate to contribute to the non-RV building noise on > this list, this > factual report on the DHL incident from an incident > investigator may be of > interest to some of you, if not delete now, and my apologies > to anyone offended: > > >Amazing that the crew was able to land the plane. > > >Subject: Fw: FW: Testimony to an A300B4 (Missile Damage to Airbus > >A-300) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:34 PM PST US From: "Bobby Sather" Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" Love to see the pictures as they did not come up on the matronics. Those guys were very lucky. If you have a link to the pictures, please send. Thanks Bobby DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) > --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > > Although I hate to contribute to the non-RV building noise on this list, this > factual report on the DHL incident from an incident investigator may be of > interest to some of you, if not delete now, and my apologies to anyone offended: > > >Amazing that the crew was able to land the plane. > > >Subject: Fw: FW: Testimony to an A300B4 (Missile Damage to Airbus A-300) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > Brian H. Shorb > > Acquisition Technical Support (G-A-2) > > Room 5116, Telephone (202) 267-0464 > > BShorb@comdt.uscg.mil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > To those of you who are wondering what happened to the DHL A300B4 coming > > out of Baghdad last Saturday, take a look. > > > > Aircraft was hit at 8000 FT, lost ALL hydraulics and therefore had no > > flight controls, actually did a missed approach using only engine thrust > > and eventually (after about 16mins) landed heavily on runway 33L at > Baghdad. > > This was fortunate because with no steering the aircraft veered off the > > runway to the left, had they landed on 33R veering to the left would have > > taken them straight into the fire station. > > > > The aircraft then travelled about 600 metres through soft sand taking out > a > > razor wire fence in the process, see LH engine pic, and came to rest > almost > > at the bottom of the sloping area between the runway and a taxiway. > > > > All three crew evacuated safely down the second slide, the first one tore > > on the razor wire. > > > > I flew in with a team on Tuesday in one of our Metros and some special > > equipment we'd had made locally in Bahrain and some provided by Airbus. > > Using a USAF D9 Caterpillar pulling a 100 metre cable fitted to the back > > end of each bogie and a nice new aircraft pushback tug with a towbar on > the > > nose gear, we were able to remove the aircraft just on dusk on Tuesday > night > > and towed it to an Iraqi Airways graveyard on one side of the terminal. > > > > We stayed overnight in the USAF camp on the airport and went back to the > > aircraft on Wednesday morning to allow the insurance survey to be > completed > > and then secure the aircraft. > > > > Basically, LH engine rotates in a fashion, has ingested lots of razor wire > > and is knackered. RH engine has seized, probably from ingesting loads of > > sand at maximum reverse thrust and inlet cowl has unacceptable lip damage, > > probably from hitting the razor wire fence posts. > > > > The No 8 axle appears to be cracked as the wheel sits at an odd angle. > > > > The bulk of the damage is the LH wing. About 3 metres of rear spar is > > missing in front of the outboard flap, the wing has bulged upwards and > > downwards where the initial explosion appears to have occurred, one O/B > > flap track is hanging in the breeze and one has a small piece of flap > still > > attached, the rest of the flap is nonexistent. The pics show the huge > crack > > that has occurred to the rear spar inboard of where the spar has burnt > > away, possibly from loads on the wing during the landing process. The > front > > spar appears to be intact. > > > > The point of entry pics show where a projectile entered Tank 1A, which was > > full of fuel, and, after it ignited, proceeded to burn away at the spar. > > The fuel tank ribs in the area directly in front of the O/B flap are burnt > > almost 50% through. > > > > The crew obviously did a fantastic job in getting the aircraft back on to > > the ground and one can only assume that it was most fortunate that they > > were not aware of the state of the wing as they could not see it from the > > cockpit. > > > > It also says a lot for the structure of the aircraft that it withstood the > > impact of the (whatever is finally determined to have hit it). > > > > I'm sure there will be lots of other photos and videos flying around the > > net, but at least these ones are genuine. > > > > The worst part for us was the airport was shut down on Wednesday and we > had > > to be driven in an armour-plated Landcruiser Troop Carrier from Baghdad to > > Balad, 60 miles to the north, from where we flew back to Bahrain in our > > Metro again. > > > > I trust you will all appreciate just how lucky these guys were. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > DHL International Aviation, > > > > Bahrain. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, firewall forward > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:50 PM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" There was a pic of it in Newsweek or Time this week too, while it was in flight just after the SAM hit. A french (go figure) journalist was with the Iraqi insurgents. I know that journalist won't reveal their sources or in this case how to get ahold of the insurgents scrawny necks so that they might be granted access in the future, but at some point one has to stand up. Guess I wouldn't make much of a reporter. After witnessing that (I wouldn't think I'd live thru trying to stop them) I would be handing over info to the US Army so they could round up the individuals who did it. Glad they landed it relatively safely. Hope it convinces those who'd try that those type of planes aren't quite as easy to shoot down as they'd hope. From the french *& %$'s ... I mean journalist's article, they fired a second missile which misfired. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil N" Subject: RE: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil N" Don't ask where they came from. Pics of the airplane are at: http://www.toosan.com/misc/DHL_SAM_Attack.jpg http://www.toosan.com/misc/DHL_SAM_Attack2.jpg http://www.toosan.com/misc/DHL_SAM_Attack3.jpg I have more at work that I'll post tomorrow. Phil Do not archive > Although I hate to contribute to the non-RV building noise on > this list, this > factual report on the DHL incident from an incident > investigator may be of > interest to some of you, if not delete now, and my apologies > to anyone offended: > > >Amazing that the crew was able to land the plane. > > >Subject: Fw: FW: Testimony to an A300B4 (Missile Damage to Airbus > >A-300) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:45 PM PST US From: "David Carter" "aeroelectric-list" Subject: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" This is going to both the Aeroelectric and RV-lists, in hopes of increasing probability of someone being able to help with this issue. I want to put cockpit audio into my video camera when doing test flying to get pictures of instruments & audio comments I make - should greatly reduce "head down in cockpit" time taking notes and greatly increase amount of instrument reading data collected. I went to Radio Shack and bought a Y adapter (p/n 274-892) with single male plug that goes into the "audio out" plug on instrument panel. The Y adapter has two female holes (jacks?) into which the headset audio plug goes and also a 6' long extension cord with 1/4 male plug that goes into other hole of Y adapter, with its other end (1/8 male) plugged into video camera's audio jack. When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be compatible with video recorder. - Had same problem in F-100 30 years ago when trying to record air-to-air combat audio. Now I remember why my Avionics guys put a small (1" or less) centertap "audio transformer" into a little box (adapter) that cut the signal amplitude in half - worked fine. Options: 1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small centertapped "audio output transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on the 1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient, strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to the end of the ??? -- I can't even visualize what I have to connect. Looks like the raw (too big) audio signal would have to go into one end of the winding that is NOT center-tapped and then have the other end of that winding go ____???. Then solder the other end of cord (that goes into the video camera) to center tap (which should have 1/2 audo amplitude of that coming into this transformer-adapter). 2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to 75 ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat fat cable housing. Problem: It has two U connectors on one end that obviously go onto two screws for antenna input; other end looks like a center conductor TV cable end. That is a 4 to 1 change of ohms (300 to 75 or vice versa) - is it done with a transformer? If so, I could have a neater adapter by modifying that gadget to have a 1/4" male plug on one end and a 1/4" female jack on other: I'd then plug it into the Y adapter, then plug the 6' extension cord (unmodified in this option) into it and run the extension cord to the video camera. - It is a $5 part and I'd need add the 1/4" plug on one end and a 1/4 inch jack on the other end. - Looks hard to do. If I can have some help figuring how to wire the audio transformer, then just cutting into the extension cord (it must have two conductors in it) I'd probably run conductor #1 into side of transformer without center-tap and connect other cut end of conductor #1 to other end of that transformer. I'd probably connect one end of conductor #2 to 1 end of the center-tapped side and the other end of conductor #2 to the center tap. - After all that, I could just wrap the transformer wires in the cut area with electrical tape - or pot with RTV or Shoe Goo, etc. - Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1? The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs. Appreciate any tips. David Carter ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:37 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com well, if you want to get back at the french reporter, don't fly airbus! ;-) do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:44 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Try ... 42-2152 6.5' Attenuating Dubbing Cord $3.99 ... FEATURES: Connects earphone jack from radio, cassette or CD to recorder's input or mic jack 1/8" phone plug on both ends Length 6-1/2-feet Radio Shack 42-2152 James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Carter > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:33 PM > To: RV-list; aeroelectric-list > Subject: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > >[SNIP] > > When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is > distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be > compatible with > video recorder. > Appreciate any tips. > > David Carter > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Dave-- What I did was get a "lapel" mike from RS and ran it in under one of the David Clark headsets (earcups)--so that anything over the radio or intercom would be recorded--good S/N and the headset blocked a lot of the the engine noise out. So, you could talk into your mike and narrate the filming, as needed. Works great as long as you don't get a "chatty" Controller on Flight Following, yeah, that'll be the day--wouldn't you like to tell one, just once--"Shut the f*ck up!"? Boyd. do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:50 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker See below: David Carter wrote: >Options: >1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small center tapped "audio output >transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on the >1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient, >strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to the >end of the ??? > If you want to do this, and assuming that the signal level is approximately twice what you need, you would connect the audio output across the two outside winding taps (the two ends) and the audio input across the center tap and the outside tap that has the ground/common wire of the input audio. More specifically, cut into your extension cord (which I am assuming is a shielded audio cable). Connect the outside conductor (the shield wire) to one of the outside taps of the transformer. Connect the inside conductor coming from the audio out to the opposite outside tap and the inside conductor from the audio into the video camera to the center tap. Insulate and seal with goop (or whatever) and you are done. >2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to 75 >ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat >fat cable housing. > This won't work at all. The impedances specified are measured at TV signal frequencies (100s of MHz). The transformer would look like a dead short at audio frequencies. > - Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1? >The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded >cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs. > If you have an ohmmeter (recommended) you could just measure, but see above. If I were doing this, I wouldn't bother with the transformer. I would just use a resistor or a potentiometer (start with a 10K pot) in series with the video camera input. That is, if you cut the cable as above, just connect each end of the center conductor to each end of the resistor (or connect the audio output center conductor to one end of the pot and the shield to the other end and the video camera center conductor to the center tap of the pot with the shield to the other shield). If you use the pot, just turn it to whatever setting gives you good results. If you turn the pot all the way one way you have essentially the same situation as if it wasn't there, if you turn it all the way the other way, you will get no output - somewhere in between you will get the output you need. If you have other questions or if this is not clear, ask away... Dick Tasker, 90573 Fuselage, finishing kit has arrived! ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:03 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: RV-List: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" I'll answer my own e-mail question to both the Aeroelec & RV-lists re how to wire the "audio out" transformer: If I remember correctly, there will be two wires in my extension cord - one connected to tip of plug and other to body of plug. - Cut the ext cord and, working with cut end still connected to the 1/4" plug that goes into Y adapter - solder both wires to the non-center-tapped side of transformer. - Now, take the other cut end of ext cord and connect its two wires to the other side of the transformer - one wire to an end, other wire to the center tap. Now the audio signal going into the video camera will be 1/2 as high an amplitude as before. Sound correct? David ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Carter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > This is going to both the Aeroelectric and RV-lists, in hopes of increasing > probability of someone being able to help with this issue. > > I want to put cockpit audio into my video camera when doing test flying to > get pictures of instruments & audio comments I make - should greatly reduce > "head down in cockpit" time taking notes and greatly increase amount of > instrument reading data collected. > > I went to Radio Shack and bought a Y adapter (p/n 274-892) with single male > plug that goes into the "audio out" plug on instrument panel. The Y adapter > has two female holes (jacks?) into which the headset audio plug goes and > also a 6' long extension cord with 1/4 male plug that goes into other hole > of Y adapter, with its other end (1/8 male) plugged into video camera's > audio jack. > > When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is > distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be compatible with > video recorder. > - Had same problem in F-100 30 years ago when trying to record > air-to-air combat audio. Now I remember why my Avionics guys put a small > (1" or less) centertap "audio transformer" into a little box (adapter) that > cut the signal amplitude in half - worked fine. > > Options: > 1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small centertapped "audio output > transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on the > 1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient, > strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to the > end of the ??? > -- I can't even visualize what I have to connect. Looks like the > raw (too big) audio signal would have to go into one end of the winding that > is NOT center-tapped and then have the other end of that winding go ____???. > Then solder the other end of cord (that goes into the video camera) to > center tap (which should have 1/2 audo amplitude of that coming into this > transformer-adapter). > > 2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to 75 > ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat > fat cable housing. Problem: It has two U connectors on one end that > obviously go onto two screws for antenna input; other end looks like a > center conductor TV cable end. That is a 4 to 1 change of ohms (300 to 75 > or vice versa) - is it done with a transformer? If so, I could have a > neater adapter by modifying that gadget to have a 1/4" male plug on one end > and a 1/4" female jack on other: I'd then plug it into the Y adapter, then > plug the 6' extension cord (unmodified in this option) into it and run the > extension cord to the video camera. > - It is a $5 part and I'd need add the 1/4" plug on one end and a 1/4 > inch jack on the other end. > - Looks hard to do. > > If I can have some help figuring how to wire the audio transformer, then > just cutting into the extension cord (it must have two conductors in it) I'd > probably run conductor #1 into side of transformer without center-tap and > connect other cut end of conductor #1 to other end of that transformer. I'd > probably connect one end of conductor #2 to 1 end of the center-tapped side > and the other end of conductor #2 to the center tap. > - After all that, I could just wrap the transformer wires in the cut > area with electrical tape - or pot with RTV or Shoe Goo, etc. > - Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1? > The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded > cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs. > > Appreciate any tips. > > David Carter > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:28 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" Sounds like the desire "simple"/"elegant" solution - no cutting and soldering. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Braem" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera > --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > > Dave-- > > What I did was get a "lapel" mike from RS and ran it in under one of > the David Clark headsets (earcups)--so that anything over the radio or > intercom would be recorded--good S/N and the headset blocked a lot of > the the engine noise out. So, you could talk into your mike and > narrate the filming, as needed. Works great as long as you don't get a > "chatty" Controller on Flight Following, yeah, that'll be the > day--wouldn't you like to tell one, just once--"Shut the f*ck up!"? > > Boyd. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:52 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com I have a bunch of photos also that I could forward individually if someone is interested. They were attached to the original but as you know Matt's system strips attachments for our protection. Again DO NOT ARCHIVE. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:32 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Got to ask you why Boyd????? second aircraft I built was "pop" rivited and was just fine. While I would not do it with an RV, you said to not build any pulled rivet airplane, why? Jerry do not archive Boyd Braem wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > >DO NOT BUILD A PULLED-RIVET AIRPLANE. > >Bradley, Zenith, what ever--so sue me. > >Boyd. >New Zealand. > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:18 PM PST US From: RV6AOKC@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com Howdy.....I am in the midst of Baffle Hell....!!! (as you who have been there know)....just wondering if anyone has found on the net (or otherwise) a source for the plastic grommet type things for the ignition leads to pass through the rear baffling.... Thanks... Kurt in OKC.... Still Finishing.... Do Not Archive.... ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:21 PM PST US From: Gert Subject: Re: RV-List: Amazing story re: DHL incident at Bagdad Int'l (NOT RV related) --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Harry I'd be intersted in seeing the pictures. Thanks Gert HCRV6@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > > I have a bunch of photos also that I could forward individually if someone is > interested. They were attached to the original but as you know Matt's > system strips attachments for our protection. > > Again DO NOT ARCHIVE. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, firewall forward > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:15 PM PST US From: "Curt Hoffman" Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" I concur with this. While many places you certainly CAN do yourself. It is much easier and has the potential for less risk of error if you have a helping hand. I have the fortune of having many builders in the Cincinnati area and several have come over to help when I asked. We end up swapping time for those "two people are better than one" times. I found two people were helpful on the tank rib riveting , leading edge ribs to spar, wing skins and a couple other places. This was a slow build wing of course. Actually I like sharing time with other people. It's nice to go over especially and help someone who is a little further along. I'm not sure you can live anywhere in the country where there aren't some other builders around. I didn't know any of these folks until I started and now many I count as friends. Even flew up to Oshkosh with another builder who I met on a project visit. Just got back tonight from helping someone on the tail of their fuselage. Unfortunately we talked more than worked but I promised to go back next week too (He had a Harley in his garage so I was a little distracted). Curt Hoffman RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail Quick build fuselage now in basement Piper Cherokee N5320W 1974 TR6 Soon to be Harley Road King Classic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > > Hi Chuck, > > Yes you will have some tasks such as the hard to reach rivets that do > require assistance. The old saw " two heads are better than one" still > applies ( the pun is gratis) g-} > > There are so many builders out there, that unless you are way ...---...out > in the boonies it should not be difficult to get assistance as needed. Tell > the list where geographically you plan to build and my guess is someone will > be in range to help. Some guys will do anything for an excuse to fly > somewhere and be helpful. > A lunch and a beer or two and Bobs your uncle. Caution!! more than a few > beers and he might wind up being your long lost son!! ~~Hic! {[:) > If you are in a remote area it might take more planning but it is done by > people all over the world. The local shop class instructor might have in > mind someone with the right skills. > > If you reside in North America, the EAA in the US or the RAA in Canada are > good sources of information and assistance etc. > > As the wings and much of the fuse are built the Q-build kits do reduce the > helper required time but some assistance is still needed. > Careful assembly order planning can reduce the need for a helper to a degree > similar to or at least close to the Q-build requirements. > Every bit of information you cold imagine is in the RV-List archives. Where > to, how to, why to It takes a while to get onto how to ask the right > questions but it is all there. > > I think you will find the RV group just as helpful as any other group that > start out to build a project and wind up sharing a passion. The friends met > along the way will add that something extra that cannot be explained. > > Happy building, whatever apssion you choose, > > > Jim in Kelowna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C P" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Building solo > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: C P > > > > Hi, > > > > I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one > > notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus > > pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to > > get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area > > I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky > > schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole, > > slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do > > solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's > > help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and > > buck for myself if that is possible... > > > > cheers, > > Chuck > > RV grin installed in August '01 > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:18 PM PST US From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/engbaffleseals.php -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com Howdy.....I am in the midst of Baffle Hell....!!! (as you who have been there know)....just wondering if anyone has found on the net (or otherwise) a source for the plastic grommet type things for the ignition leads to pass through the rear baffling.... Thanks... Kurt in OKC.... Still Finishing.... Do Not Archive.... ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:45 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... --> RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander No problem .. Aircraft Spruce has them ..... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/engbaffleseals.php ...gil in Tucson At 09:08 PM 12/4/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com > >Howdy.....I am in the midst of Baffle Hell....!!! (as you who have been >there know)....just wondering if anyone has found on the net (or otherwise) a >source for the plastic grommet type things for the ignition leads to pass >through >the rear baffling.... > >Thanks... > >Kurt in OKC.... >Still Finishing.... > >Do Not Archive.... > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:21 PM PST US From: "Cammie Patch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" Maybe this message would have been better sent privately. --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Dave-- What I did was get a "lapel" mike from RS and ran it in under one of the David Clark headsets (earcups)--so that anything over the radio or intercom would be recorded--good S/N and the headset blocked a lot of the the engine noise out. So, you could talk into your mike and narrate the filming, as needed. Works great as long as you don't get a "chatty" Controller on Flight Following, yeah, that'll be the day--wouldn't you like to tell one, just once--"Shut the f*ck up!"? Boyd. do not archive ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Gromet for Rear Baffling...... From: Patty & Dan Krueger --> RV-List message posted by: Patty & Dan Krueger > > source for the plastic grommet type things for the ignition leads to > pass through > the rear baffling.... > > A/C Spruce 2003-2004 pg 248 Dan Krueger RV6A N926DK - Flying ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:53 PM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: Re: RV-List: /Rockets going Up --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee At 10:33 2003-12-04, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" >snip >Now if I can just get these EM2 engine monitors out the door so I can >finish the -8 ............. > >Tracy > >do not archive this testosterone laced hangar flying :) ..doesn't running a successful business just get in the way sometimes.. so, how's the 2.85s coming along? P-) I've got a mini-rocket to build... Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:46 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" They make in-line attenuators. Radio shack may even have one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Carter" Subject: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > This is going to both the Aeroelectric and RV-lists, in hopes of increasing > probability of someone being able to help with this issue. > > I want to put cockpit audio into my video camera when doing test flying to > get pictures of instruments & audio comments I make - should greatly reduce > "head down in cockpit" time taking notes and greatly increase amount of > instrument reading data collected. > > I went to Radio Shack and bought a Y adapter (p/n 274-892) with single male > plug that goes into the "audio out" plug on instrument panel. The Y adapter > has two female holes (jacks?) into which the headset audio plug goes and > also a 6' long extension cord with 1/4 male plug that goes into other hole > of Y adapter, with its other end (1/8 male) plugged into video camera's > audio jack. > > When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is > distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be compatible with > video recorder. > - Had same problem in F-100 30 years ago when trying to record > air-to-air combat audio. Now I remember why my Avionics guys put a small > (1" or less) centertap "audio transformer" into a little box (adapter) that > cut the signal amplitude in half - worked fine. > > Options: > 1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small centertapped "audio output > transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on the > 1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient, > strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to the > end of the ??? > -- I can't even visualize what I have to connect. Looks like the > raw (too big) audio signal would have to go into one end of the winding that > is NOT center-tapped and then have the other end of that winding go ____???. > Then solder the other end of cord (that goes into the video camera) to > center tap (which should have 1/2 audo amplitude of that coming into this > transformer-adapter). > > 2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to 75 > ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat > fat cable housing. Problem: It has two U connectors on one end that > obviously go onto two screws for antenna input; other end looks like a > center conductor TV cable end. That is a 4 to 1 change of ohms (300 to 75 > or vice versa) - is it done with a transformer? If so, I could have a > neater adapter by modifying that gadget to have a 1/4" male plug on one end > and a 1/4" female jack on other: I'd then plug it into the Y adapter, then > plug the 6' extension cord (unmodified in this option) into it and run the > extension cord to the video camera. > - It is a $5 part and I'd need add the 1/4" plug on one end and a 1/4 > inch jack on the other end. > - Looks hard to do. > > If I can have some help figuring how to wire the audio transformer, then > just cutting into the extension cord (it must have two conductors in it) I'd > probably run conductor #1 into side of transformer without center-tap and > connect other cut end of conductor #1 to other end of that transformer. I'd > probably connect one end of conductor #2 to 1 end of the center-tapped side > and the other end of conductor #2 to the center tap. > - After all that, I could just wrap the transformer wires in the cut > area with electrical tape - or pot with RTV or Shoe Goo, etc. > - Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1? > The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded > cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs. > > Appreciate any tips. > > David Carter > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:15 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: RV-List: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" Thanks to both lists (RV & Aeroelec) for the replies - looks like about 4 ways to skin this cat. I needed a little extra "push" to buy a noise canceling headset - so my fix can cost anywhere from $1.29 (transformer) to $3 for a lapel mic to $250-400 for the noise canceling headset + a lapel mic. - Let's see. . . eeny, meeney, miney, moe. No kidding - thanks. I think this is enough good ideas for this one. Do not archive. David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Braly" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Braly > > The best way to get audio into a video camera in flight - - > Use a good noise canceling headset. > Use a good electret microphone that is placed INSIDE the ear piece > of the noise canceling headset. > > Run the microphone to the video camera. > > That way - - you get all the audio - - and just enough background > engine noise for "realism". Works very very well for the training video's > that we make. > > George ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:06 PM PST US From: Laird Owens Subject: RV-List: Propeller Performance Testing --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens Jim Ayers posted some data a couple of days ago regarding a speed increase with the Hartzell prop on an RV-6a by reducing the RPM. I found this interesting, so I thought I go out and try to duplicate the data. It looked like a good calm night tonight, so I thought I'd go out and see if I what I found. I have an RV-6 with an O-360/Hartzell CS. So, armed with a test card, I fired up the RV and headed to the Camarillo area to burn some fuel. I like this area because it's flat and any on-shore breeze isn't disrupted by mountains or such. OAT was 16C, so I flew at 6400 (with the altimeter set to 29.92) to get an 8000 ft density altitude. I got to altitutde and engaged the 2 axis AP, set up full throttle and full rpm (which is 2680). I found the max EGT on #3 (hottest cyl), then backed up 50 deg. I let everything stabilize then noted the GPS ground speed and the ground track. Then turned about 120 degrees, and again let things stablize and take ground speed and track. Once again another 120 degrees off the last heading. I could tell the winds were really light. Speeds were 178, 179, and 177. Back at the computer program (I picked up from Kevin Horton's flight test site), it show a 1 kt wind and a 178 avg speed. This is 2 kts less than I usually get. I changed a bunch of instrumentation when I upgraded the RV a couple months ago, so that could have had a effect, or maybe the air mass was decending slightly. You never know. Indicated AS was 156-7. I left everything alone, except I reduced the RPM to 2600 and did the 3 way run again. Speeds were 177,178,179. Again an average of 178 with a resultant wind of 1 kt. IAS was 156 kts. Reduced to 2500 and got 177,176,176 for 176 avg with 1 kt of wind. IAS was 155 kts. 2400 showed 174,175,173 for a 174 avg again with 1 kt. IAS wass 153kts Just to double check the top speed to make sure everything was still cool, I redid the first run again. 177,179,180 for 178 with 1 kt of wind. I like to use the wind results to validate the speeds. They SHOULD be close if the data is to be believed. Sometimes it doesn't work out, so that's why I mention it. Tuned out to be a really good night. Not even a bump during the whole series. Since I knew the winds were light, on the way home, I did a simple double check. I stayed at the same altitude (6400) and full power and noted a 180 ground speed, then reduced the rpm to 2600, speed dropped by 1, down to 2500 and it dropped to 177, 2400 slowed to 175. This is not anywhere close to being as accurate, but it rough enough to verify the results of the first tests. Of course the one thing I forgot to record was GPH for the different RPM settings. Oh well. FInal results at 8000 DA: 2680 = 178kts 2600 = 178kts 2500 = 176kts 2400 = 174kts So....I didn't see the TAS rise that Jim did during his tests with the RV-6a. At least that's what I found tonight. Laird SoCal