Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - Re: Allen Upright? (Blanton Fortson)
2. 03:39 AM - Re: N520RR First Flight (Charles Rowbotham)
3. 03:50 AM - Re: RV-8 Wire Conduit holes through front and rear spars (Charles Rowbotham)
4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re:Jon and VH-NOJ (Kevin Horton)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: Re:Jon and VH-NOJ (RV_8 Pilot)
6. 08:28 AM - Re: Allen Upright? (HalBenjamin@aol.com)
7. 08:58 AM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Ross Mickey)
8. 09:03 AM - Re: Re:Jon and VH-NOJ (Elsa & Henry)
9. 09:04 AM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
10. 09:05 AM - Re: Drawing Software for a Mac (Larry Landucci)
11. 09:39 AM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Jerry Springer)
12. 09:43 AM - Al Upright (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
13. 09:49 AM - Re: The delete key is getting wore out.... (Jerry Springer)
14. 10:11 AM - Re: HTS 2000 Aluminum Welding Rod (Ed Anderson)
15. 10:27 AM - Re: Al Upright (Boyd Braem)
16. 10:27 AM - PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! (C. Rabaut)
17. 10:34 AM - Armrest (Dana Overall)
18. 10:44 AM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Mickey Coggins)
19. 11:07 AM - Re: Al Upright (Ed Anderson)
20. 11:12 AM - Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Ed Anderson)
21. 11:31 AM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Bruce Gray)
22. 11:58 AM - Re: Al Upright (Boyd Braem)
23. 12:09 PM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Boyd Braem)
24. 12:38 PM - Re: Al Upright (Blanton Fortson)
25. 12:43 PM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Blanton Fortson)
26. 12:44 PM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Bruce Gray)
27. 12:56 PM - Re: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! (Blanton Fortson)
28. 01:07 PM - Re: Engine handling (Douglas A. Fischer)
29. 02:04 PM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Blanton Fortson)
30. 02:08 PM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Boyd Braem)
31. 02:09 PM - USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms (Fred Stucklen)
32. 02:28 PM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Lenleg@aol.com)
33. 02:37 PM - Re: Al Upright (Elsa & Henry)
34. 03:14 PM - Re: Al Upright (Jerry Springer)
35. 03:19 PM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Denis Walsh)
36. 04:37 PM - Re: Al Upright (Kosta Lewis)
37. 04:45 PM - Re: Al Upright (Fred Kunkel)
38. 05:25 PM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Larry Pardue)
39. 07:29 PM - Re: Wing Leveler/Icing (Boyd Braem)
40. 08:16 PM - Re: Wing Leveler/Icing (Bruce Gray)
41. 08:21 PM - Re: Good news for Jon... (chris)
42. 08:40 PM - Re: Wing Leveler/Icing (Boyd Braem)
43. 09:15 PM - Re: USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms (GMC)
44. 09:30 PM - Re: difficult IFR platform ? (GMC)
45. 09:34 PM - Wanted: Garmin GPS pilot 111 (Jerry Springer)
46. 09:53 PM - Re: difficult IFR platform ? (Boyd Braem)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Allen Upright? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
Did he have an autopilot installed? That could have saved him.
On Dec 12, 2003, at 9:36 PM, Boyd Braem wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
> I don't mean to sound callous, but, if if you're going to fly into the
> smoke--you have to know what you're doing--that's why I'm such a Harpy
> on the "light IFR thing".. Flying by instruments is fairly simple,
> provided you get some regular practice--Bill and Jeremy's death was a
> total waste, along with many others. Al's decision was his, alone. I
> don't know if he could have turned 180 or not. I know nothing about
> the accident, at this point.
>
> I just wish it wouldn't have happened.
>
> Boyd.
>
> On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 09:41 PM, Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Jerry,
>> We lost Al yesterday, it look like a weather thing at this point.
>> Damn
>> I wish people would not fly into crappie weather
>> Al is one of the guys I would usually meet up with at Saturday morning
>> breakfast.
>> Sad day for us
>> Jerry Springer
>> do not archive
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | N520RR First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Richard,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Welcome to the flying RVs.
Fly Safe,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Richard B. Rauch" <richardr@apcon.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RV-List: N520RR First Flight
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:25:40 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard B. Rauch" <richardr@apcon.com>
>
>My RV8-A, N520RR, took to the air for the first time today, after 2 years
>11 months of building. It was a nice 45 minute first flight, the only
>squawk being a slightly heavy right wing and a nervous pilot.
>
>My 8 is equipped with a factory Lycoming O-360-A1A, MTV-12 3 blade constant
>speed prop, IFR panel, and one excited builder/pilot.
>
>The help from this site was enormous.
>
>Thanks to all.
>
>
>Richard B. Rauch
>Email: richardr@apcon.com
>
>APCON, Inc.
>17938 SW Upper Boones Ferry Rd.
>Portland, OR 97224 USA
>Ph: (503)639-6700
>Fax: (503)639-6740
>
>Web: www.apcon.com
>
>
Cell phone switch rules are taking effect find out more here.
http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx
Message 3
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| Subject: | RV-8 Wire Conduit holes through front and rear spars |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Vince,
We agonized about drilling another hole and decided not to. Instead we were
able to route the wires aft by hinding them under the canopy rails (used
both sides). It's a little extra effort but they are Not visibile. Something
you may want to consider.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv8-list@matronics.com>, <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Wire Conduit holes through front and rear spars
>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:45:24 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
>
>Hello,
>I am starting to wire my RV-8 and would like to make a cable run that
>parallels the rudder cables through both the front
>and rear spar so as to avoid exposed cables in the cabin. This requires my
>putting two small holes (7/16 to 5/8) a couple
>inches inboard from each rudder cable spar hole on both front and rear
>spars.
>
>Surfing the net I have seen pictures of where other builders have done
>same, but would like to hear from anyone who has
>done this and also has received the official blessing from Van's?
>
>Thanks!
>Vince Himsl
>RV8-SB Finish
>N8432 reserved
>
>
Get holiday tips for festive fun.
http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: re:Jon and VH-NOJ |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>chris wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
>>
>>
>>Bill Dube wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Would you land there if your life was not in danger? I certainly
>>>wouldn't after hearing about Jon's experience.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>My understanding is it was either land there or ditch in the ocean after
>> his fuel ran out. That sounds like "life in danger" to me. It's not
>>like he planed to land there to see what he could get away with. It was
>>a last resort. It would be a totally different matter if he just
>>decided to fly there land and then asked to buy gas to go back home with
>>out ever a thought to check first. This was an emergency caused by
>>changing weather conditions, give him a break already.
>>
>Sorry Chris. I don't buy it. Your defense of JJ is admirable, but the
>bottom line is that he could have placed gas at McMurdo just as Polly
>did. He didn't. He blew it. It's fortunate that he will be able to use
>her gas, otherwise he would have to pay the consequences of his poor
>planning. Instead of all the chest beating, we could learn from his
>experience and become better planners in our own flights. As it appears
>that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some RV
>threads???
>Linn
>
Polly placed gas at McMurdo because it was a planned destination.
She got caught by high winds on her flight to McMurdo and had to
divert to an airfield that didn't have any gas for her. I don't see
much difference between her situation and that of JJ.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re:Jon and VH-NOJ |
FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Very applicable topic to the RV/experimental world - rules, laws, planning,
performance, adventure. Actually, I think it was a top 10% thread/topic! I
learned a few things, and confirmed a few others.
BTW - if your delete key fails, try your left mouse button, clicking on the
message select then delete box. Works for me!! ;) ;)
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
do not archive
> > maybe we can get back to some RV
> >threads???
> >Linn
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>I would suggest that if you want to keep it "RV threads" you don't
>respond to any of this it always amazes
>me that the "thread" police are always the ones that jump into an off
>topic subject.
>
>Jerry
>do not archive
>
>
Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year six months
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Allen Upright? |
--> RV-List message posted by: HalBenjamin@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/2003 1:47:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bcbraem@comcast.net writes:
> I don't mean to sound callous, but, if if you're going to fly into the
> smoke--you have to know what you're doing--that's why I'm such a Harpy
> on the "light IFR thing".. Flying by instruments is fairly simple,
> provided you get some regular practice--Bill and Jeremy's death was a
> total waste, along with many others. Al's decision was his, alone. I
> don't know if he could have turned 180 or not. I know nothing about
> the accident, at this point.
>
> I just wish it wouldn't have happened.
>
> Boyd.
>
We don't know what happened in Al's particular situation, and I feel for his
friends & family. Sometimes good pilots die. Disorientation? Vertigo? Just
lost it? Probably won't ever know for sure.
Boyd is ever so right. Instrument flying isn't that hard. We owe it to our
friends, families, and ourselves to know how to get out of a low/no visibility
situation. Just telling ourselves that we would never fly in those conditions
isn't enough. Ever get Vertigo on a dark night taking off over water? I
have, when I was a brand new private pilot. I was just lucky to recognize it
instantly and get on the instruments in time to avoid disaster. After donning
clean shorts I was working on my Instrument Rating.
Hal Benjamin
RV-4, Long Island, NY
Fuselage
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon internal compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
> I've read about some of the difficulties encountered when trying to mount
and calibrate the remote compass unit. The question is, has anyone got the
internal compass to work satisfactorily so the remote compass is not needed?
I think the type of RV you're building and the equipment surrounding the
Dynon would have an impact. If you can answer yes to the first question can
you also tell us what RV type and what instruments you have in proximity to
the Dynon or a link to a picture would be great.
> Thanks.
> Ken
I can't answer your question but I will offer some advise. Wire your Dynon
to accommodate a remote compass and run the wires to an appropriate
location. When you start flying, try out the internal. If it doesn't work,
add the remote. I will say that I did not do this and added the remote from
the start. Some day, I am going to unplug it to see how the internal works.
In terms of the location of the remote. I installed mine in the baggage
compartment floor between the flap brace and the step of my 6A. This was
before all the traffic on the list about keeping the unit 12" from any
steel. With 15 hours under my belt, I can report that the unit is reading
within 3-5 degrees from my GPS. This could be accounted for by my
calibration as I do not have an official compass rose on my field.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: re:Jon and VH-NOJ |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
> BTW - if your delete key fails, try your left mouse button, clicking on
the
> message select then delete box. Works for me!! ;) ;)
>
On Windows ME, you select the message with the left mouse button and the
click the RIGHT button to get the dialog-drop down and left click the Delete
Box
Cheers!! --Henry Hore
Message 9
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| Subject: | Allen Upright crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all
the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you
install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this
accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made
to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
My condolences.
Mike Stewart
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
WPAerial@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash
--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to Flying
M
for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad
news. I am
sorry.
Jerry Wilken
Albany Oregon
=
==
==
==
==
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Drawing Software for a Mac |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Landucci <lllanducci@tds.net>
I started using DesignWorks Lite on an E-Mac (OS 10.2.6). It can be
downloaded and used for 30 days -- and then costs $39.95 for a
registered version. Go to http://www.capilano.com/
Larry
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Allen Upright crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Doing a 180 in low visibility at low altitude, the wing leveler probably
would not have helped.
The biggest life saver here is to not fly in these conditions unless on
a legal IFR flight plan.
For anyone that may have missed it here is more information. If your
computer well allow video
click on the video.
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?id=63093
Jerry
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all
>the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you
>install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this
>accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
>anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made
>to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
>difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
>So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
>My condolences.
>Mike Stewart
>Do not archive
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>WPAerial@aol.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
>
>I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to Flying
>M
>for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad
>news. I am
>sorry.
>
>Jerry Wilken
>Albany Oregon
>
>
>>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Folks...
Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune...
Al and a friend planned formation flight for a lunch, Al in his RV7 and
friend in RV4.
They decided to turn back because of disagreeable weather.
Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's.
Al was instrument rated, but not current.
He had only a turn coordinator.
Al had built many RV's and had lots of experience in them. I visited him at
his home/hangar a couple months ago and asked him how many he had built or
helped build and the reply was that he "thought" it was eleven.
Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting
redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of the "stuff".
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: The delete key is getting wore out.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Best thing to do would be to get off the computer and get back to
building......
do not archive
RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>Any possibility we could get back to RV building any time soon?
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: HTS 2000 Aluminum Welding Rod |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I only tried the HTS 2000 on 6061 Aluminum. So don't know about the 2024.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: HTS 2000 Aluminum Welding Rod
> --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
> Still no go with 2024 tho , right?
>
> hal
> te:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> >John, I have used it a bit. I find it to be the best Aluminum Brazing
(not
> >welding) rod I have tried - out of three or four different types. Most
of
> >the others I have tried were difficult (for me at least) to use. They
> >frequently just beaded up and ran off. In any case, I have used this one
to
> >braze thin wall aluminum tubes (.058 wall) to heavy aluminum manifold
> >blocks - almost impossible to weld (unless you are very good with a TIG).
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
If you fly enough, you will eventually be in the "stuff"--despite your
best planning. Please work on being prepared--and that's flying
skills, not just fancy instruments. Instruments don't always
work--even expensive ones.
Boyd
RV-Super 6
Venice,FL
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Folks...
>
> Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune...
>
>
> Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting
> redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of
> the "stuff".
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Terry,
Please, oh please... no more on primer.
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com>
> As it appears
> that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some RV
> threads???
> Linn
> OK, I give up. What's more of an RV thread than the current perilous
status
> of a guy in an RV in Antarctica who has flown his RV around the world a
> couple of times? Oh yes, primer! That's it. Let's hear some more ideas
on
> primer.
> Terry
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
I took some pics to send off list so I thought I might as well forward the
email here:
Here are some pics of my armrest. I may or may not want to trim the manual
aileron trim handle, at some future time, but it will not interfere with
armrest.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm1.jpg
It only goes as far forward as the bend line of the tunnel cover. You can
see the length of hinge clamped to the top. The back holes were match
drilled using the flap actuator side panels as a template.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm2.jpg
I flushed riveted the angles to the bottom of the tunnel cover plate so I
could rivet the angles on top of the cover.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm3.jpg
pic of the inside. I just used flush AN4s
http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm4.jpg
Pic of dimpled skin to attach the angle.
The front of mine is 11" tall. I shot a laser line across the fuselage so I
had the top the same height as the side rests and sloped accordingly to
match the side rests. I'll end up putting some type of floor in it thereby
giving it even more rigidity.
Very, very easy manufacture.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home.
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx
Message 18
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| Subject: | Allen Upright crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Amen to that. I'm planning on installing something like
this to help me if I ever get into this type of situation:
http://www.trioavionics.com/
Mickey
>I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all
>the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you
>install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this
>accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
>anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made
>to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
>difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
>So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
>My condolences.
>Mike Stewart
--
Mickey Coggins
do not archive
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I agree - having found myself in "stuff" unintentionally - no matter how
well you plan, unless you only fly on blue sky days (and perhaps even then),
it can happen. I truly appreciate (and probably owe my life to) my old
instructor from the Barn Storming days, who insisted and persisted until I
was proficient in doing a 180 on needle and ball, airspeed and altimeter
and "getting the hell out of there". A working Attitude Indicator certainly
makes it easier, but you can survive without one - if prepared.
Having read an article posted on the buletin board of a local FBO that
indicated the average survival time for a non-instrumented pilot in the
"Soup" is slightly less that 3 minutes would seem to indicate that most of
us are not even minimally prepared.
So remember your boy scout days and "..be prepared!"
FWIW
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
> If you fly enough, you will eventually be in the "stuff"--despite your
> best planning. Please work on being prepared--and that's flying
> skills, not just fancy instruments. Instruments don't always
> work--even expensive ones.
>
> Boyd
> RV-Super 6
> Venice,FL
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
While a wing leveler can certainly help relieve the work load keeping the
dirty side down, don't be lulled into thinking its the solution. I noticed
on the news clip about the crash that on the map shown, there was higher
terrain in the direction that Al turned (to the left) and lower terrain (to
the right) toward which his wingman turned. Can't help but think that might
have been the crucial difference. Staying straight and level does not help
much if the terrian is higher than your flight altitude. So situational
awareness is just as key.
FWIW
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen Upright crash
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Amen to that. I'm planning on installing something like
> this to help me if I ever get into this type of situation:
>
> http://www.trioavionics.com/
>
> Mickey
>
>
> >I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all
> >the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you
> >install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this
> >accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
> >anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made
> >to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
> >difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
> >So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
> >My condolences.
> >Mike Stewart
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself
in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get a
clearance.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Subject: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
While a wing leveler can certainly help relieve the work load keeping
the
dirty side down, don't be lulled into thinking its the solution. I
noticed
on the news clip about the crash that on the map shown, there was higher
terrain in the direction that Al turned (to the left) and lower terrain
(to
the right) toward which his wingman turned. Can't help but think that
might
have been the crucial difference. Staying straight and level does not
help
much if the terrian is higher than your flight altitude. So situational
awareness is just as key.
FWIW
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen Upright crash
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Amen to that. I'm planning on installing something like
> this to help me if I ever get into this type of situation:
>
> http://www.trioavionics.com/
>
> Mickey
>
>
> >I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To
all
> >the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that
you
> >install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of
this
> >accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
> >anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be
made
> >to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
> >difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
> >So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
> >My condolences.
> >Mike Stewart
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
>
> do not archive
>
>
=
==
==
==
==
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Ed, and others--
This is a frustrating topic among the home-built community because
there is such a mix of pilot experience/flight time. Last year, a
friend of mine (Scott--ABAYMAN) stalled and crashed and really burned
in Tampa, FL because he wanted to fly instead of correcting the
problem in his pitot/static system (at least, that is my
interpretation--ie, it appeared his air speed indicator was not reading
correctly--and, damn, he was from Louisiana and made this gorgeous
gumbo).
But since there are so many RVs flying, now--Our RV Community needs to
take a more professional attitude on flying these home-builts--it's not
like flying kites or R/C models. Pilots need training, flight time in
type and a system/process for improving skills. An RV is a
high-performance airplane--it's not a Cub or a C-150. I don't have the
answers, but I would like RV pilots to think about it
Sorry for taking up your building time--
Boyd.
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 01:59 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> I agree - having found myself in "stuff" unintentionally - no matter
> how
> well you plan, unless you only fly on blue sky days (and perhaps even
> then),
> it can happen. I truly appreciate (and probably owe my life to) my old
> instructor from the Barn Storming days, who insisted and persisted
> until I
> was proficient in doing a 180 on needle and ball, airspeed and
> altimeter
> and "getting the hell out of there". A working Attitude Indicator
> certainly
> makes it easier, but you can survive without one - if prepared.
>
> Having read an article posted on the buletin board of a local FBO that
> indicated the average survival time for a non-instrumented pilot in the
> "Soup" is slightly less that 3 minutes would seem to indicate that
> most of
> us are not even minimally prepared.
>
> So remember your boy scout days and "..be prepared!"
>
> FWIW
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>>
>> If you fly enough, you will eventually be in the "stuff"--despite your
>> best planning. Please work on being prepared--and that's flying
>> skills, not just fancy instruments. Instruments don't always
>> work--even expensive ones.
>>
>>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
"Climb like hell" thru ICE, maybe?--how high is the cloud layer?--some
clouds go up to 45,000' or higher. And what if ATC says they're real
busy right now, and they'll get back to you? You're the PIC, screw ATC.
Boyd.
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 02:28 PM, Bruce Gray wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself
> in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get
> a
> clearance.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
>> I'm putting redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and
staying out of the "stuff".<<
"Staying out of the stuff" is a noble idea and has been my creed, too.
Sometime's it's not that easy. I've been fooled by optical illusions
(the wisp of white "stuff" that you'll punch through in 3 seconds turns
into 30 seconds and sweaty palms), or flying down the beach (safe, I
can land anytime, right?) lower and lower... another sucker trap I've
visited. As I get older and have visited more of them I do seem to get
better at avoiding them. Honestly, there have been very, very few, but
it only takes one.
On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:43 AM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Folks...
>
> Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune...
>
> Al and a friend planned formation flight for a lunch, Al in his RV7
> and
> friend in RV4.
>
> They decided to turn back because of disagreeable weather.
>
> Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's.
>
> Al was instrument rated, but not current.
>
> He had only a turn coordinator.
>
> Al had built many RV's and had lots of experience in them. I visited
> him at
> his home/hangar a couple months ago and asked him how many he had
> built or
> helped build and the reply was that he "thought" it was eleven.
>
> Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting
> redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of
> the "stuff".
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Allen Upright crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " <<
...all RV's? or some. relatively speaking? ( how about the 9 or 10?
perhaps not as twitchy as the -3,-4,-6,or -7) Not just a mental
excercise, but a real consideration for some who might venture, even
inadverdantly, into the weather?
On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:04 AM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> <mstewart@iss.net>
>
> I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all
> the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you
> install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this
> accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
> anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made
> to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
> difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
> So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
> My condolences.
> Mike Stewart
> Do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> WPAerial@aol.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
>
> I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to
> Flying
> M
> for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad
> news. I am
> sorry.
>
> Jerry Wilken
> Albany Oregon
>
>
> > ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
It's been proven that most ice encounters have a vertical component of
only 3-4,000 feet. I've had too many ice encounters in my younger days,
in old equipment, (D-18's delivering cancelled checks in Kasnas) and our
first choice was to climb, you can always go down. If ATC gives you a
hard time, use the 'E' word.
I have yet to meet a controller who won't help, if he knows your back is
against the wall
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Braem
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al
Upright
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
"Climb like hell" thru ICE, maybe?--how high is the cloud layer?--some
clouds go up to 45,000' or higher. And what if ATC says they're real
busy right now, and they'll get back to you? You're the PIC, screw ATC.
Boyd.
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 02:28 PM, Bruce Gray wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself
> in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get
> a
> clearance.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
=
==
==
==
==
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
Google "rv primer rant" and you'll come up with one of my favorite
articles:
"That Priming Thing..." by Sam B.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/priming.html
Jeez, my 206 was near 30 yrs. old when I recently sold it. Flown on and
off beaches, rarely hangared, no corrosion anywhere. No special priming
either. If I lived in Florida I might get the priming bug, otherwise
why bother, methinks.
(ACF-50 is cheaper and easier than primer, too!)
Kudos to Sam! (I love your "editorials" :
)
-B.
http://homepage.mac.com/blanton
On Dec 13, 2003, at 7:26 AM, C. Rabaut wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
> Terry,
>
> Please, oh please... no more on primer.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry Watson <terry@tcwatson.com>
>> As it appears
>> that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some
>> RV
>> threads???
>> Linn
>> OK, I give up. What's more of an RV thread than the current perilous
> status
>> of a guy in an RV in Antarctica who has flown his RV around the world
>> a
>> couple of times? Oh yes, primer! That's it. Let's hear some more
>> ideas
> on
>> primer.
>> Terry
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine handling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer@iserv.net>
There is an interesting column on AvWeb.com called "Pelican's Perch" by John
Deakin in which he has many articles on engine management. There is a
4-part series called "Where should I run my engine?" that is really
interesting and I think relates to the discussion here. I think he
typically deals with fuelie engines but it makes for interesting reading
even if I don't necessarily plan to have fuel injection on my -9A. You can
find an index to all his columns there.
Doug Fischer
Jenison, MI
90706 Emp done, waiting for Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
Subject: RV-List: Engine handling
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
>
> Hi Ross:
>
> Yes that is the post I was referring to, those power settings maybe a bit
on the conservative side for some but I have found that they are the best
compromise between performance and long engine life. The way an engine is
handled is equally as important.
>
> Using this procedure I have been able to avoid an engine failure and get
to TBO without any cylinder changes. In one operation I was involved with
operating a fleet of Aztec's we didn't change a cylinder over a nine year
period.
>
> Eustace
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
Anyone ever considered TKS (weeping wing) de-ice for an RV? ... or
maybe just the TKS slinger for the prop?
On Dec 13, 2003, at 11:04 AM, Boyd Braem wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>
> "Climb like hell" thru ICE, maybe?--how high is the cloud layer?--some
> clouds go up to 45,000' or higher. And what if ATC says they're real
> busy right now, and they'll get back to you? You're the PIC, screw
> ATC.
>
> Boyd.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 02:28 PM, Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>>
>> There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself
>> in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get
>> a
>> clearance.
>>
>> Bruce
>> www.glasair.org
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Allen Upright crash |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
It's all relative and depends on your experience and your mission. The
RV series is a very responsive plane--you can fly it with one
finger--if it was military, they would probably have computer
fly-by-wire controls. and you could dial in your "responsiveness".
"Stable" is like a twin Aztec/Barron, or something--a flying pick-up
truck. (tho, they are great airplanes if you like their
characteristics).
Boyd.
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 03:40 PM, Blanton Fortson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
>
>
>>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " <<
>
> ...all RV's? or some. relatively speaking? ( how about the 9 or 10?
> perhaps not as twitchy as the -3,-4,-6,or -7) Not just a mental
> excercise, but a real consideration for some who might venture, even
> inadverdantly, into the weather?
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:04 AM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
>> <mstewart@iss.net>
>>
>> I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To
>> all
>> the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that
>> you
>> install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this
>> accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying
>> anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made
>> to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a
>> difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot.
>> So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen.
>> My condolences.
>> Mike Stewart
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> WPAerial@aol.com
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
>>
>> I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to
>> Flying
>> M
>> for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad
>> news. I am
>> sorry.
>>
>> Jerry Wilken
>> Albany Oregon
>>
>>
>>> ==
>> ==
>> ==
>> ==
>>
>>
>> _-
>> ======================================================================
>> >> _-> _-
>> ======================================================================
>> >> _-
>> ======================================================================
>> >> _-
>> ======================================================================
>> >> _-
>> ======================================================================
>> >>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Boyd.
RV-Super 6
Venice, FL
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1@cox.net>
Has anybody tried to utilize the built-in intercom in one of the
USPAT/GarminAT radios (SL-40, SL-30, etc..) The installation manual
indicates that an input on one of the connectors has to be grounded "to
enable the intercom function". I'm interpreting this to be turning ON
the intercom for use, not opening up the audio through it. I'm assuming
that the internal VOX and Squelch settings will allow it to be used like
an ordinary intercom, once it is enabled...
If this is indeed the way it works, has anybody had problems setting
it up to work correctly (i.e., setting the squelch and audio levels)
What about resetting the settings while in flight????
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
111.5 Hrs since Aug 03....
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon internal compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
In a message dated 12/12/2003 6:54:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ken@truckstop.com writes:
I have an RV question. This may have been covered before in the many
discussions on the Dynon so I apologize if this is a rehash.
I've read about some of the difficulties encountered when trying to mount and
calibrate the remote compass unit. The question is, has anyone got the
internal compass to work satisfactorily so the remote compass is not needed? I
think
the type of RV you're building and the equipment surrounding the Dynon would
have an impact. If you can answer yes to the first question can you also tell
us what RV type and what instruments you have in proximity to the Dynon or a
link to a picture would be great.
Thanks.
Ken
RV-8
Ken:
I bought the remote compass but sent it back to the company for a refund when
I found that my internal compass is only off 5 degrees and I have not
calibrated yet. As soon as I get that done ... I will post to the list the results.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
179 hrs
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's.
At that age, could Al have suffered a stroke?
Henry Hore
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's.
At that age, could Al have suffered a stroke?
Henry Hore
No, I have known Al for several years, flew to breakfast with him and a
couple other friends two weeks ago. I did not know he was 80, I would have
believed early 70s if I had to have guessed. He was in excellent health.
Look guys I live 15 miles from the crash site. The weather was very nasty
that day. Not a day I would
have wanted to fly out for lunch. they were in poor visibility when they
decided to turn around
and go back. It was a poor choice with a sad end result. At this time it is
hard to say more than that.
tell all the investigation is done. We can armchair this all we want but
well never really know what happened in the 180 turn he was making.
Jerry
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon internal compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
I don't own a Dynon but got to fly co pilot (flt engineer) for a ground and
air calibration of one a few weeks ago. It was in an RV-6, with O-360 and
Hartzell, He had the Dynon installed where his turn coordinator used to be,
in his panel. The thing was amazing. It was within 5 degrees on the worst
heading and within a couple on all others! This was with the internal
"standard" version. It was a mite turbulent, and was not optimum for the
procedure. Also on the ground, there was a little slope involved on the
compass rose so we were not able to keep a constant rate of turn on the
ground cal procedure.
My other observation is that I had a hell of a time reading the laptop
screen on that bright sunny day, but could easily read the Dynon across the
cockpit.
I am a fan now, and based on that ride, don't see the need for the external
gadget at all on an RV-6.
I guess you just don't know until you try though.
Good Luck.
Denis
> From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:58:02 -0800
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon internal compass
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
>
>> I've read about some of the difficulties encountered when trying to mount
> and calibrate the remote compass unit. The question is, has anyone got the
> internal compass to work satisfactorily so the remote compass is not needed?
> I think the type of RV you're building and the equipment surrounding the
> Dynon would have an impact. If you can answer yes to the first question can
> you also tell us what RV type and what instruments you have in proximity to
> the Dynon or a link to a picture would be great.
>> Thanks.
>> Ken
>
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry"
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>>Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including
P-51's.
>At that age, could Al have suffered a stroke?
No. Fly into a cloud, have a stroke. No, more likely something else
happened.
Message 37
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Kunkel" <rvator@socal.rr.com>
We lost our XO & a good crew one year in Korea at Team Spirit. They were
flying below the overcast from the coast up to the jet base to stand SAR
duty. From what we later pieced together from many, many different sources,
they were following the main highway through the mountains, came around a
corner, & ran smack into a fog bank. They made an emergency climbing left
hand turn away from the mountain closest to them to go high & get picked up
on radar for an approach. Missed the top of the mountains on the other side
by less than 100 feet. It took us 2 days to find them. They followed SOP &
were a highly trained crew.
We also used to get the quarterly safety stand-downs. Still remember that
November through January was the most dangerous time to fly, regardless.
People's minds just weren't in the cockpit with all the extraneous
activities going on at home & work.
Know your limitations. We don't need any more "I learned from this" stories
Our sincere condolences to to Al's family..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Blanton Fortson" <blanton@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright
> --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
>
> >> I'm putting redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and
> staying out of the "stuff".<<
>
> "Staying out of the stuff" is a noble idea and has been my creed, too.
> Sometime's it's not that easy. I've been fooled by optical illusions
> (the wisp of white "stuff" that you'll punch through in 3 seconds turns
> into 30 seconds and sweaty palms), or flying down the beach (safe, I
> can land anytime, right?) lower and lower... another sucker trap I've
> visited. As I get older and have visited more of them I do seem to get
> better at avoiding them. Honestly, there have been very, very few, but
> it only takes one.
>
> On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:43 AM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
> >
> > Folks...
> >
> > Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune...
> >
> > Al and a friend planned formation flight for a lunch, Al in his RV7
> > and
> > friend in RV4.
> >
> > They decided to turn back because of disagreeable weather.
> >
> > Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's.
> >
> > Al was instrument rated, but not current.
> >
> > He had only a turn coordinator.
> >
> > Al had built many RV's and had lots of experience in them. I visited
> > him at
> > his home/hangar a couple months ago and asked him how many he had
> > built or
> > helped build and the reply was that he "thought" it was eleven.
> >
> > Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting
> > redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of
> > the "stuff".
> >
> > Jerry Cochran
> > Wilsonville, OR
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-> _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon internal compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
>
> In terms of the location of the remote. I installed mine in the baggage
> compartment floor between the flap brace and the step of my 6A. This was
> before all the traffic on the list about keeping the unit 12" from any
> steel. With 15 hours under my belt, I can report that the unit is reading
> within 3-5 degrees from my GPS. This could be accounted for by my
> calibration as I do not have an official compass rose on my field.
>
Let's remember that the Dynon and the GPS are supposed to show completely
different things. Since the GPS shows track it should disagree with the
Dynon, that shows heading, most of the time, unless we are taxiing. So this
Dynon may be perfect?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
http://n5lp.net
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Leveler/Icing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Will you write that down and guarantee it?--3-4,000 ft?--and then
you're out of it?--whew, I wish I would have known that years ago.
This is the real world, not some text book class. People die because
they read books and don't look out at their own wings, or wonder why
their prop is acting so funny. You have to be a real genius to peg
icing down like that. My hat's off to you--just don't fly with any
passengers--mail and cancelled checks are OK. Maybe crosscheck your
"proven" stuff with Bob Buck's "Weather Flying"--he may just have a few
more hours than you do.
I'm sorry for sounding strident, but I lost a very good friend who was
coming down into Denver in "no-ice" weather. When he slowed for final
approach, one of his leading edge slats was iced up (as best we could
tell) and he flipped inverted and pancaked upside down just short of
the runway. I had the honor (our CO, at the time, was a chicken shit)
of telling his wife and daughter.
Sorry, Bruce--I got set off--nothing personal, just,--
just bad memories--
Boyd.
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Bruce Gray wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> It's been proven that most ice encounters have a vertical component of
> only 3-4,000 feet. I've had too many ice encounters in my younger days,
> in old equipment, (D-18's delivering cancelled checks in Kasnas) and
> our
> first choice was to climb, you can always go down. If ATC gives you a
> hard time, use the 'E' word.
>
> I have yet to meet a controller who won't help, if he knows your back
> is
> against the wall
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Wing Leveler/Icing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Yes, I understand. It's been my personal experience that, except for
freezing rain, an altitude change of 3-4k will get you out of icing
conditions. Now you can go up or down, your choice.
I'm sorry about your friend. I've been there, on final with several
inches of ice, with an airplane that won't hold altitude with the gear
down. All the old hangar flying stories pass though your mind, reaching
for a solution. What kept me alive during that encounter was an old
article I'd read somewhere that said, 'Don't lower the flaps when you
have a load of ice, you don't know what will happen.' I didn't (lower
the flaps), kept the speed up and slowed the airplane 1 foot above the
runway. It quit flying at 110 indicated, normal stall was 55. Each ice
encounter left me shaken and vowing never to do it again. But if you fly
a lot of instruments, a lot of the time, the ice man will get you. Have
a plan, an out, fly the plan.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Braem
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Will you write that down and guarantee it?--3-4,000 ft?--and then
you're out of it?--whew, I wish I would have known that years ago.
This is the real world, not some text book class. People die because
they read books and don't look out at their own wings, or wonder why
their prop is acting so funny. You have to be a real genius to peg
icing down like that. My hat's off to you--just don't fly with any
passengers--mail and cancelled checks are OK. Maybe crosscheck your
"proven" stuff with Bob Buck's "Weather Flying"--he may just have a few
more hours than you do.
I'm sorry for sounding strident, but I lost a very good friend who was
coming down into Denver in "no-ice" weather. When he slowed for final
approach, one of his leading edge slats was iced up (as best we could
tell) and he flipped inverted and pancaked upside down just short of
the runway. I had the honor (our CO, at the time, was a chicken shit)
of telling his wife and daughter.
Sorry, Bruce--I got set off--nothing personal, just,--
just bad memories--
Boyd.
do not archive
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Bruce Gray wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> It's been proven that most ice encounters have a vertical component of
> only 3-4,000 feet. I've had too many ice encounters in my younger
days,
> in old equipment, (D-18's delivering cancelled checks in Kasnas) and
> our
> first choice was to climb, you can always go down. If ATC gives you a
> hard time, use the 'E' word.
>
> I have yet to meet a controller who won't help, if he knows your back
> is
> against the wall
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Good news for Jon... |
--> RV-List message posted by: chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> Polly Vacher's aircraft has a lot shorter range than Jon's RV-4,
> judging by the much shorter length of the legs described on her web
> site. She planned at least three stops in Antarctica, while Jon had
> the legs to potentially hop right over it. So it seems quite
> unlikely that her fuel cache would be enough to go over the Pole to
> South America. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised it it wasn't
> enough for Jon to single-hop it to New Zealand.
You're not taking in to account that an RV-4 can easily go well over
twice as far on a gallon of gas as a Piper Dakota can.
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Leveler/Icing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Good job on that landing--for most people, that's an automatic screw
the pooch. It's like an "engine out" in a jet--keep your speed up--I
think that was a Gratefull Dead song--Casey Jones???
Boyd.
On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 11:16 PM, Bruce Gray wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> Yes, I understand. It's been my personal experience that, except for
> freezing rain, an altitude change of 3-4k will get you out of icing
> conditions. Now you can go up or down, your choice.
>
> I'm sorry about your friend. I've been there, on final with several
> inches of ice, with an airplane that won't hold altitude with the gear
> down. All the old hangar flying stories pass though your mind, reaching
> for a solution. What kept me alive during that encounter was an old
> article I'd read somewhere that said, 'Don't lower the flaps when you
> have a load of ice, you don't know what will happen.' I didn't (lower
> the flaps), kept the speed up and slowed the airplane 1 foot above the
> runway. It quit flying at 110 indicated, normal stall was 55. Each ice
> encounter left me shaken and vowing never to do it again. But if you
> fly
> a lot of instruments, a lot of the time, the ice man will get you. Have
> a plan, an out, fly the plan.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Braem
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing
Message 43
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| Subject: | USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms |
--> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Has anybody tried to utilize the built-in intercom in one of the
USPAT/GarminAT radios (SL-40, SL-30, etc..) The installation manual
indicates that an input on one of the connectors has to be grounded "to
enable the intercom function". I'm interpreting this to be turning ON
the intercom for use, not opening up the audio through it. I'm assuming
that the internal VOX and Squelch settings will allow it to be used like
an ordinary intercom, once it is enabled...
If this is indeed the way it works, has anybody had problems setting
it up to work correctly (i.e., setting the squelch and audio levels)
What about resetting the settings while in flight????
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
111.5 Hrs since Aug 03....
----------------------------------------------
Hi Fred
I am using the SL-60 GPS/COMM which, I believe, has the same intercom. It is
a somewhat limited intercom system but if set up properly will give
reasonably satisfactory performance.
I found my installation manual quite poor, it hardly mentions the Intercom.
You are correct, in my installation the Intercom select pin (#12) is
grounded through a external Intercom on/off switch. I turn the intercom off
when flying solo because breaking the intercom VOX activates both mikes and
picks up extra background noise.
The adjustments for the intercom are in the internal Comm setup menu and are
best set during a test flight, they are not changed in normal operations.
The internal setup menu allows settings for things that I have not seen in
other radios, for example the volume control knob can be made to control
either radio audio level or intercom audio level with the other being a
fixed level set by the setup menu. Therefore my intercom has fixed settings
which are good for the noisy flight environment but not so great on the
ground where you have to speak a little louder than normal to break squelch.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
6A - C-GJTY
Message 44
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| Subject: | difficult IFR platform ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " <<
Not sure who made the above statement but I think anyone that feels that way
should do a very careful check for balance and friction in his elevator
control system, any friction will make the aircraft difficult to fly
accurately. My 6A is a pussycat!
George McNutt
Langley, BC
Message 45
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| Subject: | Wanted: Garmin GPS pilot 111 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Thought I would check here first. Looking for a used Garmin GPS Pilot lll.
If someone may be thinking of upgrading and wants to sell theirs.
Been looking on Ebay but the prices get pretty close to new prices, I
want one to use
as a backup to my panel mounted Flybuddy GPS.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: difficult IFR platform ? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
I think a lot of pilots are not prepared for the light/quick handling
of an RV, if they've had time in other airplanes. Plus, at least the
-6, has some tail wag (yaw) in turbulence. You have to learn about
your environment.
Boyd
On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 12:35 AM, GMC wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
>
>
>>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " <<
>
>
> Not sure who made the above statement but I think anyone that feels
> that way
> should do a very careful check for balance and friction in his elevator
> control system, any friction will make the aircraft difficult to fly
> accurately. My 6A is a pussycat!
>
> George McNutt
> Langley, BC
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