---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/13/03: 46 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:20 AM - Re: Allen Upright? (Blanton Fortson) 2. 03:39 AM - Re: N520RR First Flight (Charles Rowbotham) 3. 03:50 AM - Re: RV-8 Wire Conduit holes through front and rear spars (Charles Rowbotham) 4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re:Jon and VH-NOJ (Kevin Horton) 5. 07:59 AM - Re: Re:Jon and VH-NOJ (RV_8 Pilot) 6. 08:28 AM - Re: Allen Upright? (HalBenjamin@aol.com) 7. 08:58 AM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Ross Mickey) 8. 09:03 AM - Re: Re:Jon and VH-NOJ (Elsa & Henry) 9. 09:04 AM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 10. 09:05 AM - Re: Drawing Software for a Mac (Larry Landucci) 11. 09:39 AM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Jerry Springer) 12. 09:43 AM - Al Upright (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 13. 09:49 AM - Re: The delete key is getting wore out.... (Jerry Springer) 14. 10:11 AM - Re: HTS 2000 Aluminum Welding Rod (Ed Anderson) 15. 10:27 AM - Re: Al Upright (Boyd Braem) 16. 10:27 AM - PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! (C. Rabaut) 17. 10:34 AM - Armrest (Dana Overall) 18. 10:44 AM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Mickey Coggins) 19. 11:07 AM - Re: Al Upright (Ed Anderson) 20. 11:12 AM - Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Ed Anderson) 21. 11:31 AM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Bruce Gray) 22. 11:58 AM - Re: Al Upright (Boyd Braem) 23. 12:09 PM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Boyd Braem) 24. 12:38 PM - Re: Al Upright (Blanton Fortson) 25. 12:43 PM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Blanton Fortson) 26. 12:44 PM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Bruce Gray) 27. 12:56 PM - Re: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! (Blanton Fortson) 28. 01:07 PM - Re: Engine handling (Douglas A. Fischer) 29. 02:04 PM - Re: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright (Blanton Fortson) 30. 02:08 PM - Re: Allen Upright crash (Boyd Braem) 31. 02:09 PM - USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms (Fred Stucklen) 32. 02:28 PM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Lenleg@aol.com) 33. 02:37 PM - Re: Al Upright (Elsa & Henry) 34. 03:14 PM - Re: Al Upright (Jerry Springer) 35. 03:19 PM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Denis Walsh) 36. 04:37 PM - Re: Al Upright (Kosta Lewis) 37. 04:45 PM - Re: Al Upright (Fred Kunkel) 38. 05:25 PM - Re: Dynon internal compass (Larry Pardue) 39. 07:29 PM - Re: Wing Leveler/Icing (Boyd Braem) 40. 08:16 PM - Re: Wing Leveler/Icing (Bruce Gray) 41. 08:21 PM - Re: Good news for Jon... (chris) 42. 08:40 PM - Re: Wing Leveler/Icing (Boyd Braem) 43. 09:15 PM - Re: USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms (GMC) 44. 09:30 PM - Re: difficult IFR platform ? (GMC) 45. 09:34 PM - Wanted: Garmin GPS pilot 111 (Jerry Springer) 46. 09:53 PM - Re: difficult IFR platform ? (Boyd Braem) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:07 AM PST US From: Blanton Fortson Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen Upright? --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson Did he have an autopilot installed? That could have saved him. On Dec 12, 2003, at 9:36 PM, Boyd Braem wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > > I don't mean to sound callous, but, if if you're going to fly into the > smoke--you have to know what you're doing--that's why I'm such a Harpy > on the "light IFR thing".. Flying by instruments is fairly simple, > provided you get some regular practice--Bill and Jeremy's death was a > total waste, along with many others. Al's decision was his, alone. I > don't know if he could have turned 180 or not. I know nothing about > the accident, at this point. > > I just wish it wouldn't have happened. > > Boyd. > > On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 09:41 PM, Jerry Springer wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >> >> Jerry, >> We lost Al yesterday, it look like a weather thing at this point. >> Damn >> I wish people would not fly into crappie weather >> Al is one of the guys I would usually meet up with at Saturday morning >> breakfast. >> Sad day for us >> Jerry Springer >> do not archive > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:33 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: N520RR First Flight --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Richard, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Welcome to the flying RVs. Fly Safe, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Richard B. Rauch" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RV-List: N520RR First Flight >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:25:40 -0800 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard B. Rauch" > >My RV8-A, N520RR, took to the air for the first time today, after 2 years >11 months of building. It was a nice 45 minute first flight, the only >squawk being a slightly heavy right wing and a nervous pilot. > >My 8 is equipped with a factory Lycoming O-360-A1A, MTV-12 3 blade constant >speed prop, IFR panel, and one excited builder/pilot. > >The help from this site was enormous. > >Thanks to all. > > >Richard B. Rauch >Email: richardr@apcon.com > >APCON, Inc. >17938 SW Upper Boones Ferry Rd. >Portland, OR 97224 USA >Ph: (503)639-6700 >Fax: (503)639-6740 > >Web: www.apcon.com > > Cell phone switch rules are taking effect find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:46 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-8 Wire Conduit holes through front and rear spars --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Vince, We agonized about drilling another hole and decided not to. Instead we were able to route the wires aft by hinding them under the canopy rails (used both sides). It's a little extra effort but they are Not visibile. Something you may want to consider. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Vince Himsl" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: , >Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Wire Conduit holes through front and rear spars >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:45:24 -0800 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" > >Hello, >I am starting to wire my RV-8 and would like to make a cable run that >parallels the rudder cables through both the front >and rear spar so as to avoid exposed cables in the cabin. This requires my >putting two small holes (7/16 to 5/8) a couple >inches inboard from each rudder cable spar hole on both front and rear >spars. > >Surfing the net I have seen pictures of where other builders have done >same, but would like to hear from anyone who has >done this and also has received the official blessing from Van's? > >Thanks! >Vince Himsl >RV8-SB Finish >N8432 reserved > > Get holiday tips for festive fun. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:03 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: re:Jon and VH-NOJ --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > >chris wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> >> >> >>Bill Dube wrote: >> >> >> >>> Would you land there if your life was not in danger? I certainly >>>wouldn't after hearing about Jon's experience. >>> >>> >> >>My understanding is it was either land there or ditch in the ocean after >> his fuel ran out. That sounds like "life in danger" to me. It's not >>like he planed to land there to see what he could get away with. It was >>a last resort. It would be a totally different matter if he just >>decided to fly there land and then asked to buy gas to go back home with >>out ever a thought to check first. This was an emergency caused by >>changing weather conditions, give him a break already. >> >Sorry Chris. I don't buy it. Your defense of JJ is admirable, but the >bottom line is that he could have placed gas at McMurdo just as Polly >did. He didn't. He blew it. It's fortunate that he will be able to use >her gas, otherwise he would have to pay the consequences of his poor >planning. Instead of all the chest beating, we could learn from his >experience and become better planners in our own flights. As it appears >that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some RV >threads??? >Linn > Polly placed gas at McMurdo because it was a planned destination. She got caught by high winds on her flight to McMurdo and had to divert to an airfield that didn't have any gas for her. I don't see much difference between her situation and that of JJ. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:47 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: Re: RV-List: re:Jon and VH-NOJ FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" Very applicable topic to the RV/experimental world - rules, laws, planning, performance, adventure. Actually, I think it was a top 10% thread/topic! I learned a few things, and confirmed a few others. BTW - if your delete key fails, try your left mouse button, clicking on the message select then delete box. Works for me!! ;) ;) Bryan Jones -8 Pearland, Texas do not archive > > maybe we can get back to some RV > >threads??? > >Linn > > > > > > > > > >I would suggest that if you want to keep it "RV threads" you don't >respond to any of this it always amazes >me that the "thread" police are always the ones that jump into an off >topic subject. > >Jerry >do not archive > > Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year six months ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:22 AM PST US From: HalBenjamin@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen Upright? --> RV-List message posted by: HalBenjamin@aol.com In a message dated 12/13/2003 1:47:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, bcbraem@comcast.net writes: > I don't mean to sound callous, but, if if you're going to fly into the > smoke--you have to know what you're doing--that's why I'm such a Harpy > on the "light IFR thing".. Flying by instruments is fairly simple, > provided you get some regular practice--Bill and Jeremy's death was a > total waste, along with many others. Al's decision was his, alone. I > don't know if he could have turned 180 or not. I know nothing about > the accident, at this point. > > I just wish it wouldn't have happened. > > Boyd. > We don't know what happened in Al's particular situation, and I feel for his friends & family. Sometimes good pilots die. Disorientation? Vertigo? Just lost it? Probably won't ever know for sure. Boyd is ever so right. Instrument flying isn't that hard. We owe it to our friends, families, and ourselves to know how to get out of a low/no visibility situation. Just telling ourselves that we would never fly in those conditions isn't enough. Ever get Vertigo on a dark night taking off over water? I have, when I was a brand new private pilot. I was just lucky to recognize it instantly and get on the instruments in time to avoid disaster. After donning clean shorts I was working on my Instrument Rating. Hal Benjamin RV-4, Long Island, NY Fuselage ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:30 AM PST US From: "Ross Mickey" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon internal compass --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" > I've read about some of the difficulties encountered when trying to mount and calibrate the remote compass unit. The question is, has anyone got the internal compass to work satisfactorily so the remote compass is not needed? I think the type of RV you're building and the equipment surrounding the Dynon would have an impact. If you can answer yes to the first question can you also tell us what RV type and what instruments you have in proximity to the Dynon or a link to a picture would be great. > Thanks. > Ken I can't answer your question but I will offer some advise. Wire your Dynon to accommodate a remote compass and run the wires to an appropriate location. When you start flying, try out the internal. If it doesn't work, add the remote. I will say that I did not do this and added the remote from the start. Some day, I am going to unplug it to see how the internal works. In terms of the location of the remote. I installed mine in the baggage compartment floor between the flap brace and the step of my 6A. This was before all the traffic on the list about keeping the unit 12" from any steel. With 15 hours under my belt, I can report that the unit is reading within 3-5 degrees from my GPS. This could be accounted for by my calibration as I do not have an official compass rose on my field. Ross Mickey N9PT ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:40 AM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: re:Jon and VH-NOJ --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" > BTW - if your delete key fails, try your left mouse button, clicking on the > message select then delete box. Works for me!! ;) ;) > On Windows ME, you select the message with the left mouse button and the click the RIGHT button to get the dialog-drop down and left click the Delete Box Cheers!! --Henry Hore ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen Upright crash From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. My condolences. Mike Stewart Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WPAerial@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to Flying M for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad news. I am sorry. Jerry Wilken Albany Oregon = == == == == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Drawing Software for a Mac From: Larry Landucci --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Landucci I started using DesignWorks Lite on an E-Mac (OS 10.2.6). It can be downloaded and used for 30 days -- and then costs $39.95 for a registered version. Go to http://www.capilano.com/ Larry ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:18 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen Upright crash --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Doing a 180 in low visibility at low altitude, the wing leveler probably would not have helped. The biggest life saver here is to not fly in these conditions unless on a legal IFR flight plan. For anyone that may have missed it here is more information. If your computer well allow video click on the video. http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?id=63093 Jerry Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > >I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all >the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you >install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this >accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying >anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made >to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a >difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. >So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. >My condolences. >Mike Stewart >Do not archive > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >WPAerial@aol.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash > >--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com > >I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to Flying >M >for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad >news. I am >sorry. > >Jerry Wilken >Albany Oregon > > >>== >== >== >== > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:26 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Folks... Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune... Al and a friend planned formation flight for a lunch, Al in his RV7 and friend in RV4. They decided to turn back because of disagreeable weather. Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's. Al was instrument rated, but not current. He had only a turn coordinator. Al had built many RV's and had lots of experience in them. I visited him at his home/hangar a couple months ago and asked him how many he had built or helped build and the reply was that he "thought" it was eleven. Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of the "stuff". Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:59 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: The delete key is getting wore out.... --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Best thing to do would be to get off the computer and get back to building...... do not archive RV8ter@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >Any possibility we could get back to RV building any time soon? > >do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:32 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: HTS 2000 Aluminum Welding Rod --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I only tried the HTS 2000 on 6061 Aluminum. So don't know about the 2024. Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "kempthornes" Subject: Re: RV-List: HTS 2000 Aluminum Welding Rod > --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes > > Still no go with 2024 tho , right? > > hal > te: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > >John, I have used it a bit. I find it to be the best Aluminum Brazing (not > >welding) rod I have tried - out of three or four different types. Most of > >the others I have tried were difficult (for me at least) to use. They > >frequently just beaded up and ran off. In any case, I have used this one to > >braze thin wall aluminum tubes (.058 wall) to heavy aluminum manifold > >blocks - almost impossible to weld (unless you are very good with a TIG). > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem If you fly enough, you will eventually be in the "stuff"--despite your best planning. Please work on being prepared--and that's flying skills, not just fancy instruments. Instruments don't always work--even expensive ones. Boyd RV-Super 6 Venice,FL do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > Folks... > > Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune... > > > Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting > redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of > the "stuff". > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:28 AM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: RV-List: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" Terry, Please, oh please... no more on primer. Chuck do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Watson > As it appears > that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some RV > threads??? > Linn > OK, I give up. What's more of an RV thread than the current perilous status > of a guy in an RV in Antarctica who has flown his RV around the world a > couple of times? Oh yes, primer! That's it. Let's hear some more ideas on > primer. > Terry ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:00 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Armrest --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" I took some pics to send off list so I thought I might as well forward the email here: Here are some pics of my armrest. I may or may not want to trim the manual aileron trim handle, at some future time, but it will not interfere with armrest. http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm1.jpg It only goes as far forward as the bend line of the tunnel cover. You can see the length of hinge clamped to the top. The back holes were match drilled using the flap actuator side panels as a template. http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm2.jpg I flushed riveted the angles to the bottom of the tunnel cover plate so I could rivet the angles on top of the cover. http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm3.jpg pic of the inside. I just used flush AN4s http://rvflying.tripod.com/arm4.jpg Pic of dimpled skin to attach the angle. The front of mine is 11" tall. I shot a laser line across the fuselage so I had the top the same height as the side rests and sloped accordingly to match the side rests. I'll end up putting some type of floor in it thereby giving it even more rigidity. Very, very easy manufacture. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:58 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen Upright crash --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Amen to that. I'm planning on installing something like this to help me if I ever get into this type of situation: http://www.trioavionics.com/ Mickey >I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all >the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you >install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this >accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying >anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made >to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a >difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. >So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. >My condolences. >Mike Stewart -- Mickey Coggins do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:19 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I agree - having found myself in "stuff" unintentionally - no matter how well you plan, unless you only fly on blue sky days (and perhaps even then), it can happen. I truly appreciate (and probably owe my life to) my old instructor from the Barn Storming days, who insisted and persisted until I was proficient in doing a 180 on needle and ball, airspeed and altimeter and "getting the hell out of there". A working Attitude Indicator certainly makes it easier, but you can survive without one - if prepared. Having read an article posted on the buletin board of a local FBO that indicated the average survival time for a non-instrumented pilot in the "Soup" is slightly less that 3 minutes would seem to indicate that most of us are not even minimally prepared. So remember your boy scout days and "..be prepared!" FWIW Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > > If you fly enough, you will eventually be in the "stuff"--despite your > best planning. Please work on being prepared--and that's flying > skills, not just fancy instruments. Instruments don't always > work--even expensive ones. > > Boyd > RV-Super 6 > Venice,FL > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:22 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" While a wing leveler can certainly help relieve the work load keeping the dirty side down, don't be lulled into thinking its the solution. I noticed on the news clip about the crash that on the map shown, there was higher terrain in the direction that Al turned (to the left) and lower terrain (to the right) toward which his wingman turned. Can't help but think that might have been the crucial difference. Staying straight and level does not help much if the terrian is higher than your flight altitude. So situational awareness is just as key. FWIW Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen Upright crash > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Amen to that. I'm planning on installing something like > this to help me if I ever get into this type of situation: > > http://www.trioavionics.com/ > > Mickey > > > >I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all > >the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you > >install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this > >accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying > >anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made > >to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a > >difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. > >So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. > >My condolences. > >Mike Stewart > > -- > Mickey Coggins > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:47 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get a clearance. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Subject: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" While a wing leveler can certainly help relieve the work load keeping the dirty side down, don't be lulled into thinking its the solution. I noticed on the news clip about the crash that on the map shown, there was higher terrain in the direction that Al turned (to the left) and lower terrain (to the right) toward which his wingman turned. Can't help but think that might have been the crucial difference. Staying straight and level does not help much if the terrian is higher than your flight altitude. So situational awareness is just as key. FWIW Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Allen Upright crash > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Amen to that. I'm planning on installing something like > this to help me if I ever get into this type of situation: > > http://www.trioavionics.com/ > > Mickey > > > >I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all > >the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you > >install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this > >accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying > >anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made > >to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a > >difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. > >So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. > >My condolences. > >Mike Stewart > > -- > Mickey Coggins > > do not archive > > = == == == == ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Ed, and others-- This is a frustrating topic among the home-built community because there is such a mix of pilot experience/flight time. Last year, a friend of mine (Scott--ABAYMAN) stalled and crashed and really burned in Tampa, FL because he wanted to fly instead of correcting the problem in his pitot/static system (at least, that is my interpretation--ie, it appeared his air speed indicator was not reading correctly--and, damn, he was from Louisiana and made this gorgeous gumbo). But since there are so many RVs flying, now--Our RV Community needs to take a more professional attitude on flying these home-builts--it's not like flying kites or R/C models. Pilots need training, flight time in type and a system/process for improving skills. An RV is a high-performance airplane--it's not a Cub or a C-150. I don't have the answers, but I would like RV pilots to think about it Sorry for taking up your building time-- Boyd. do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 01:59 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > I agree - having found myself in "stuff" unintentionally - no matter > how > well you plan, unless you only fly on blue sky days (and perhaps even > then), > it can happen. I truly appreciate (and probably owe my life to) my old > instructor from the Barn Storming days, who insisted and persisted > until I > was proficient in doing a 180 on needle and ball, airspeed and > altimeter > and "getting the hell out of there". A working Attitude Indicator > certainly > makes it easier, but you can survive without one - if prepared. > > Having read an article posted on the buletin board of a local FBO that > indicated the average survival time for a non-instrumented pilot in the > "Soup" is slightly less that 3 minutes would seem to indicate that > most of > us are not even minimally prepared. > > So remember your boy scout days and "..be prepared!" > > FWIW > Ed > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem >> >> If you fly enough, you will eventually be in the "stuff"--despite your >> best planning. Please work on being prepared--and that's flying >> skills, not just fancy instruments. Instruments don't always >> work--even expensive ones. >> >> > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem "Climb like hell" thru ICE, maybe?--how high is the cloud layer?--some clouds go up to 45,000' or higher. And what if ATC says they're real busy right now, and they'll get back to you? You're the PIC, screw ATC. Boyd. do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 02:28 PM, Bruce Gray wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" > > There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself > in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get > a > clearance. > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:32 PM PST US From: Blanton Fortson Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson >> I'm putting redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of the "stuff".<< "Staying out of the stuff" is a noble idea and has been my creed, too. Sometime's it's not that easy. I've been fooled by optical illusions (the wisp of white "stuff" that you'll punch through in 3 seconds turns into 30 seconds and sweaty palms), or flying down the beach (safe, I can land anytime, right?) lower and lower... another sucker trap I've visited. As I get older and have visited more of them I do seem to get better at avoiding them. Honestly, there have been very, very few, but it only takes one. On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:43 AM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > Folks... > > Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune... > > Al and a friend planned formation flight for a lunch, Al in his RV7 > and > friend in RV4. > > They decided to turn back because of disagreeable weather. > > Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's. > > Al was instrument rated, but not current. > > He had only a turn coordinator. > > Al had built many RV's and had lots of experience in them. I visited > him at > his home/hangar a couple months ago and asked him how many he had > built or > helped build and the reply was that he "thought" it was eleven. > > Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting > redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of > the "stuff". > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:48 PM PST US From: Blanton Fortson Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen Upright crash --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson >> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " << ...all RV's? or some. relatively speaking? ( how about the 9 or 10? perhaps not as twitchy as the -3,-4,-6,or -7) Not just a mental excercise, but a real consideration for some who might venture, even inadverdantly, into the weather? On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:04 AM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > > I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To all > the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that you > install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this > accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying > anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made > to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a > difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. > So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. > My condolences. > Mike Stewart > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > WPAerial@aol.com > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash > > --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com > > I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to > Flying > M > for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad > news. I am > sorry. > > Jerry Wilken > Albany Oregon > > > > == > == > == > == > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:53 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" It's been proven that most ice encounters have a vertical component of only 3-4,000 feet. I've had too many ice encounters in my younger days, in old equipment, (D-18's delivering cancelled checks in Kasnas) and our first choice was to climb, you can always go down. If ATC gives you a hard time, use the 'E' word. I have yet to meet a controller who won't help, if he knows your back is against the wall Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Braem Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem "Climb like hell" thru ICE, maybe?--how high is the cloud layer?--some clouds go up to 45,000' or higher. And what if ATC says they're real busy right now, and they'll get back to you? You're the PIC, screw ATC. Boyd. do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 02:28 PM, Bruce Gray wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" > > There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself > in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get > a > clearance. > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > = == == == == ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:23 PM PST US From: Blanton Fortson Subject: Re: RV-List: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson Google "rv primer rant" and you'll come up with one of my favorite articles: "That Priming Thing..." by Sam B. http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/priming.html Jeez, my 206 was near 30 yrs. old when I recently sold it. Flown on and off beaches, rarely hangared, no corrosion anywhere. No special priming either. If I lived in Florida I might get the priming bug, otherwise why bother, methinks. (ACF-50 is cheaper and easier than primer, too!) Kudos to Sam! (I love your "editorials" : ) -B. http://homepage.mac.com/blanton On Dec 13, 2003, at 7:26 AM, C. Rabaut wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" > > Terry, > > Please, oh please... no more on primer. > > Chuck > > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry Watson >> As it appears >> that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some >> RV >> threads??? >> Linn >> OK, I give up. What's more of an RV thread than the current perilous > status >> of a guy in an RV in Antarctica who has flown his RV around the world >> a >> couple of times? Oh yes, primer! That's it. Let's hear some more >> ideas > on >> primer. >> Terry > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:56 PM PST US From: "Douglas A. Fischer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine handling --> RV-List message posted by: "Douglas A. Fischer" There is an interesting column on AvWeb.com called "Pelican's Perch" by John Deakin in which he has many articles on engine management. There is a 4-part series called "Where should I run my engine?" that is really interesting and I think relates to the discussion here. I think he typically deals with fuelie engines but it makes for interesting reading even if I don't necessarily plan to have fuel injection on my -9A. You can find an index to all his columns there. Doug Fischer Jenison, MI 90706 Emp done, waiting for Wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eustace Bowhay" Subject: RV-List: Engine handling > --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" > > Hi Ross: > > Yes that is the post I was referring to, those power settings maybe a bit on the conservative side for some but I have found that they are the best compromise between performance and long engine life. The way an engine is handled is equally as important. > > Using this procedure I have been able to avoid an engine failure and get to TBO without any cylinder changes. In one operation I was involved with operating a fleet of Aztec's we didn't change a cylinder over a nine year period. > > Eustace > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:05 PM PST US From: Blanton Fortson Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler only a parital answer Was RE Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson Anyone ever considered TKS (weeping wing) de-ice for an RV? ... or maybe just the TKS slinger for the prop? On Dec 13, 2003, at 11:04 AM, Boyd Braem wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > > "Climb like hell" thru ICE, maybe?--how high is the cloud layer?--some > clouds go up to 45,000' or higher. And what if ATC says they're real > busy right now, and they'll get back to you? You're the PIC, screw > ATC. > > Boyd. > > do not archive > > > On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 02:28 PM, Bruce Gray wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" >> >> There's only one answer, if you're instrument rated, and find yourself >> in the clouds. Climb like hell, call the closest ATC facility, and get >> a >> clearance. >> >> Bruce >> www.glasair.org >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Allen Upright crash From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem It's all relative and depends on your experience and your mission. The RV series is a very responsive plane--you can fly it with one finger--if it was military, they would probably have computer fly-by-wire controls. and you could dial in your "responsiveness". "Stable" is like a twin Aztec/Barron, or something--a flying pick-up truck. (tho, they are great airplanes if you like their characteristics). Boyd. do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 03:40 PM, Blanton Fortson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson > > >>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " << > > ...all RV's? or some. relatively speaking? ( how about the 9 or 10? > perhaps not as twitchy as the -3,-4,-6,or -7) Not just a mental > excercise, but a real consideration for some who might venture, even > inadverdantly, into the weather? > > > On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:04 AM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" >> >> >> I hate hate hate to hear these stories. I have said this before. To >> all >> the RV pilots out there. If I were your mother, I would insist that >> you >> install a simple wing leveler. I do not know the circumstances of this >> accident. But there is no doubt in my mind that any RV pilot flying >> anything other than local severe clear flights in an RV should be made >> to put on of these simple life savers in their planes. The RV is a >> difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. >> So so sorry for the friends and family of Allen. >> My condolences. >> Mike Stewart >> Do not archive >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> WPAerial@aol.com >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: Allen Upright crash >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com >> >> I called some people, found that Allen and another plane going to >> Flying >> M >> for lunch got in bad wheather and Allen didn't get home. This is sad >> news. I am >> sorry. >> >> Jerry Wilken >> Albany Oregon >> >> >>> == >> == >> == >> == >> >> >> _- >> ====================================================================== >> >> _-> _- >> ====================================================================== >> >> _- >> ====================================================================== >> >> _- >> ====================================================================== >> >> _- >> ====================================================================== >> >>> >> >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > Boyd. RV-Super 6 Venice, FL do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:10 PM PST US From: "Fred Stucklen" Subject: RV-List: USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" Has anybody tried to utilize the built-in intercom in one of the USPAT/GarminAT radios (SL-40, SL-30, etc..) The installation manual indicates that an input on one of the connectors has to be grounded "to enable the intercom function". I'm interpreting this to be turning ON the intercom for use, not opening up the audio through it. I'm assuming that the internal VOX and Squelch settings will allow it to be used like an ordinary intercom, once it is enabled... If this is indeed the way it works, has anybody had problems setting it up to work correctly (i.e., setting the squelch and audio levels) What about resetting the settings while in flight???? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 111.5 Hrs since Aug 03.... ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:56 PM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon internal compass --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com In a message dated 12/12/2003 6:54:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, ken@truckstop.com writes: I have an RV question. This may have been covered before in the many discussions on the Dynon so I apologize if this is a rehash. I've read about some of the difficulties encountered when trying to mount and calibrate the remote compass unit. The question is, has anyone got the internal compass to work satisfactorily so the remote compass is not needed? I think the type of RV you're building and the equipment surrounding the Dynon would have an impact. If you can answer yes to the first question can you also tell us what RV type and what instruments you have in proximity to the Dynon or a link to a picture would be great. Thanks. Ken RV-8 Ken: I bought the remote compass but sent it back to the company for a refund when I found that my internal compass is only off 5 degrees and I have not calibrated yet. As soon as I get that done ... I will post to the list the results. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 179 hrs ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:29 PM PST US From: "Elsa & Henry" Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" >Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's. At that age, could Al have suffered a stroke? Henry Hore ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:50 PM PST US From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Springer" -------Original Message------- From: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" >Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's. At that age, could Al have suffered a stroke? Henry Hore No, I have known Al for several years, flew to breakfast with him and a couple other friends two weeks ago. I did not know he was 80, I would have believed early 70s if I had to have guessed. He was in excellent health. Look guys I live 15 miles from the crash site. The weather was very nasty that day. Not a day I would have wanted to fly out for lunch. they were in poor visibility when they decided to turn around and go back. It was a poor choice with a sad end result. At this time it is hard to say more than that. tell all the investigation is done. We can armchair this all we want but well never really know what happened in the 180 turn he was making. Jerry ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon internal compass From: Denis Walsh --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh I don't own a Dynon but got to fly co pilot (flt engineer) for a ground and air calibration of one a few weeks ago. It was in an RV-6, with O-360 and Hartzell, He had the Dynon installed where his turn coordinator used to be, in his panel. The thing was amazing. It was within 5 degrees on the worst heading and within a couple on all others! This was with the internal "standard" version. It was a mite turbulent, and was not optimum for the procedure. Also on the ground, there was a little slope involved on the compass rose so we were not able to keep a constant rate of turn on the ground cal procedure. My other observation is that I had a hell of a time reading the laptop screen on that bright sunny day, but could easily read the Dynon across the cockpit. I am a fan now, and based on that ride, don't see the need for the external gadget at all on an RV-6. I guess you just don't know until you try though. Good Luck. Denis > From: "Ross Mickey" > Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:58:02 -0800 > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon internal compass > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" > >> I've read about some of the difficulties encountered when trying to mount > and calibrate the remote compass unit. The question is, has anyone got the > internal compass to work satisfactorily so the remote compass is not needed? > I think the type of RV you're building and the equipment surrounding the > Dynon would have an impact. If you can answer yes to the first question can > you also tell us what RV type and what instruments you have in proximity to > the Dynon or a link to a picture would be great. >> Thanks. >> Ken > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:12 PM PST US From: "Kosta Lewis" Subject: RE: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" --> RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" >>Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's. >At that age, could Al have suffered a stroke? No. Fly into a cloud, have a stroke. No, more likely something else happened. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:10 PM PST US From: "Fred Kunkel" Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Kunkel" We lost our XO & a good crew one year in Korea at Team Spirit. They were flying below the overcast from the coast up to the jet base to stand SAR duty. From what we later pieced together from many, many different sources, they were following the main highway through the mountains, came around a corner, & ran smack into a fog bank. They made an emergency climbing left hand turn away from the mountain closest to them to go high & get picked up on radar for an approach. Missed the top of the mountains on the other side by less than 100 feet. It took us 2 days to find them. They followed SOP & were a highly trained crew. We also used to get the quarterly safety stand-downs. Still remember that November through January was the most dangerous time to fly, regardless. People's minds just weren't in the cockpit with all the extraneous activities going on at home & work. Know your limitations. We don't need any more "I learned from this" stories Our sincere condolences to to Al's family.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blanton Fortson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Al Upright > --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson > > >> I'm putting redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and > staying out of the "stuff".<< > > "Staying out of the stuff" is a noble idea and has been my creed, too. > Sometime's it's not that easy. I've been fooled by optical illusions > (the wisp of white "stuff" that you'll punch through in 3 seconds turns > into 30 seconds and sweaty palms), or flying down the beach (safe, I > can land anytime, right?) lower and lower... another sucker trap I've > visited. As I get older and have visited more of them I do seem to get > better at avoiding them. Honestly, there have been very, very few, but > it only takes one. > > On Dec 13, 2003, at 8:43 AM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > > > Folks... > > > > Here is some reliably reported info re Al's misfortune... > > > > Al and a friend planned formation flight for a lunch, Al in his RV7 > > and > > friend in RV4. > > > > They decided to turn back because of disagreeable weather. > > > > Al was 80 and had many hours in all types of aircraft including P-51's. > > > > Al was instrument rated, but not current. > > > > He had only a turn coordinator. > > > > Al had built many RV's and had lots of experience in them. I visited > > him at > > his home/hangar a couple months ago and asked him how many he had > > built or > > helped build and the reply was that he "thought" it was eleven. > > > > Just food for thought, draw your own conclusions. Myself, I'm putting > > redundantcy into my panel, Dynon, TC, Autopilot... and staying out of > > the "stuff". > > > > Jerry Cochran > > Wilsonville, OR > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _-> _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:28 PM PST US From: "Larry Pardue" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon internal compass --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Mickey" > > In terms of the location of the remote. I installed mine in the baggage > compartment floor between the flap brace and the step of my 6A. This was > before all the traffic on the list about keeping the unit 12" from any > steel. With 15 hours under my belt, I can report that the unit is reading > within 3-5 degrees from my GPS. This could be accounted for by my > calibration as I do not have an official compass rose on my field. > Let's remember that the Dynon and the GPS are supposed to show completely different things. Since the GPS shows track it should disagree with the Dynon, that shows heading, most of the time, unless we are taxiing. So this Dynon may be perfect? Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM http://n5lp.net ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Will you write that down and guarantee it?--3-4,000 ft?--and then you're out of it?--whew, I wish I would have known that years ago. This is the real world, not some text book class. People die because they read books and don't look out at their own wings, or wonder why their prop is acting so funny. You have to be a real genius to peg icing down like that. My hat's off to you--just don't fly with any passengers--mail and cancelled checks are OK. Maybe crosscheck your "proven" stuff with Bob Buck's "Weather Flying"--he may just have a few more hours than you do. I'm sorry for sounding strident, but I lost a very good friend who was coming down into Denver in "no-ice" weather. When he slowed for final approach, one of his leading edge slats was iced up (as best we could tell) and he flipped inverted and pancaked upside down just short of the runway. I had the honor (our CO, at the time, was a chicken shit) of telling his wife and daughter. Sorry, Bruce--I got set off--nothing personal, just,-- just bad memories-- Boyd. do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Bruce Gray wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" > > It's been proven that most ice encounters have a vertical component of > only 3-4,000 feet. I've had too many ice encounters in my younger days, > in old equipment, (D-18's delivering cancelled checks in Kasnas) and > our > first choice was to climb, you can always go down. If ATC gives you a > hard time, use the 'E' word. > > I have yet to meet a controller who won't help, if he knows your back > is > against the wall > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:59 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Yes, I understand. It's been my personal experience that, except for freezing rain, an altitude change of 3-4k will get you out of icing conditions. Now you can go up or down, your choice. I'm sorry about your friend. I've been there, on final with several inches of ice, with an airplane that won't hold altitude with the gear down. All the old hangar flying stories pass though your mind, reaching for a solution. What kept me alive during that encounter was an old article I'd read somewhere that said, 'Don't lower the flaps when you have a load of ice, you don't know what will happen.' I didn't (lower the flaps), kept the speed up and slowed the airplane 1 foot above the runway. It quit flying at 110 indicated, normal stall was 55. Each ice encounter left me shaken and vowing never to do it again. But if you fly a lot of instruments, a lot of the time, the ice man will get you. Have a plan, an out, fly the plan. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Braem Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Will you write that down and guarantee it?--3-4,000 ft?--and then you're out of it?--whew, I wish I would have known that years ago. This is the real world, not some text book class. People die because they read books and don't look out at their own wings, or wonder why their prop is acting so funny. You have to be a real genius to peg icing down like that. My hat's off to you--just don't fly with any passengers--mail and cancelled checks are OK. Maybe crosscheck your "proven" stuff with Bob Buck's "Weather Flying"--he may just have a few more hours than you do. I'm sorry for sounding strident, but I lost a very good friend who was coming down into Denver in "no-ice" weather. When he slowed for final approach, one of his leading edge slats was iced up (as best we could tell) and he flipped inverted and pancaked upside down just short of the runway. I had the honor (our CO, at the time, was a chicken shit) of telling his wife and daughter. Sorry, Bruce--I got set off--nothing personal, just,-- just bad memories-- Boyd. do not archive On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Bruce Gray wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" > > It's been proven that most ice encounters have a vertical component of > only 3-4,000 feet. I've had too many ice encounters in my younger days, > in old equipment, (D-18's delivering cancelled checks in Kasnas) and > our > first choice was to climb, you can always go down. If ATC gives you a > hard time, use the 'E' word. > > I have yet to meet a controller who won't help, if he knows your back > is > against the wall > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:16 PM PST US From: chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Good news for Jon... --> RV-List message posted by: chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Kevin Horton wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > Polly Vacher's aircraft has a lot shorter range than Jon's RV-4, > judging by the much shorter length of the legs described on her web > site. She planned at least three stops in Antarctica, while Jon had > the legs to potentially hop right over it. So it seems quite > unlikely that her fuel cache would be enough to go over the Pole to > South America. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised it it wasn't > enough for Jon to single-hop it to New Zealand. You're not taking in to account that an RV-4 can easily go well over twice as far on a gallon of gas as a Piper Dakota can. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Good job on that landing--for most people, that's an automatic screw the pooch. It's like an "engine out" in a jet--keep your speed up--I think that was a Gratefull Dead song--Casey Jones??? Boyd. On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 11:16 PM, Bruce Gray wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" > > Yes, I understand. It's been my personal experience that, except for > freezing rain, an altitude change of 3-4k will get you out of icing > conditions. Now you can go up or down, your choice. > > I'm sorry about your friend. I've been there, on final with several > inches of ice, with an airplane that won't hold altitude with the gear > down. All the old hangar flying stories pass though your mind, reaching > for a solution. What kept me alive during that encounter was an old > article I'd read somewhere that said, 'Don't lower the flaps when you > have a load of ice, you don't know what will happen.' I didn't (lower > the flaps), kept the speed up and slowed the airplane 1 foot above the > runway. It quit flying at 110 indicated, normal stall was 55. Each ice > encounter left me shaken and vowing never to do it again. But if you > fly > a lot of instruments, a lot of the time, the ice man will get you. Have > a plan, an out, fly the plan. > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Braem > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Leveler/Icing ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:00 PM PST US From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" Has anybody tried to utilize the built-in intercom in one of the USPAT/GarminAT radios (SL-40, SL-30, etc..) The installation manual indicates that an input on one of the connectors has to be grounded "to enable the intercom function". I'm interpreting this to be turning ON the intercom for use, not opening up the audio through it. I'm assuming that the internal VOX and Squelch settings will allow it to be used like an ordinary intercom, once it is enabled... If this is indeed the way it works, has anybody had problems setting it up to work correctly (i.e., setting the squelch and audio levels) What about resetting the settings while in flight???? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 111.5 Hrs since Aug 03.... ---------------------------------------------- Hi Fred I am using the SL-60 GPS/COMM which, I believe, has the same intercom. It is a somewhat limited intercom system but if set up properly will give reasonably satisfactory performance. I found my installation manual quite poor, it hardly mentions the Intercom. You are correct, in my installation the Intercom select pin (#12) is grounded through a external Intercom on/off switch. I turn the intercom off when flying solo because breaking the intercom VOX activates both mikes and picks up extra background noise. The adjustments for the intercom are in the internal Comm setup menu and are best set during a test flight, they are not changed in normal operations. The internal setup menu allows settings for things that I have not seen in other radios, for example the volume control knob can be made to control either radio audio level or intercom audio level with the other being a fixed level set by the setup menu. Therefore my intercom has fixed settings which are good for the noisy flight environment but not so great on the ground where you have to speak a little louder than normal to break squelch. George McNutt Langley, B.C. 6A - C-GJTY ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:58 PM PST US From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: difficult IFR platform ? --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" >> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " << Not sure who made the above statement but I think anyone that feels that way should do a very careful check for balance and friction in his elevator control system, any friction will make the aircraft difficult to fly accurately. My 6A is a pussycat! George McNutt Langley, BC ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:52 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: RV-List: Wanted: Garmin GPS pilot 111 --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Thought I would check here first. Looking for a used Garmin GPS Pilot lll. If someone may be thinking of upgrading and wants to sell theirs. Been looking on Ebay but the prices get pretty close to new prices, I want one to use as a backup to my panel mounted Flybuddy GPS. Jerry do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: difficult IFR platform ? From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem I think a lot of pilots are not prepared for the light/quick handling of an RV, if they've had time in other airplanes. Plus, at least the -6, has some tail wag (yaw) in turbulence. You have to learn about your environment. Boyd On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 12:35 AM, GMC wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" > > >>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " << > > > Not sure who made the above statement but I think anyone that feels > that way > should do a very careful check for balance and friction in his elevator > control system, any friction will make the aircraft difficult to fly > accurately. My 6A is a pussycat! > > George McNutt > Langley, BC