---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/14/03: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:44 AM - Re: Speaking of Instruments (lucky macy) 2. 06:25 AM - Fw: pneumatic rivet squeezer (Cy Galley) 3. 06:50 AM - Re: difficult IFR platform ? (Paul Besing) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: Speaking of Instruments (a flyer) 5. 07:13 AM - rear turtledeck skin (Dave Mader) 6. 07:16 AM - Re: Speaking of Instruments (RV8ter@aol.com) 7. 07:48 AM - Re: rear turtledeck skin (Dan Checkoway) 8. 08:27 AM - Re: rear turtledeck skin (Ron Walker) 9. 08:35 AM - Re: rear turtledeck skin (rv6tc) 10. 09:25 AM - Re: Golf Clubs and Skis (Norman Hunger) 11. 10:06 AM - Re: rear turtledeck skin (Dan Checkoway) 12. 10:26 AM - Re: Building solo (Tim Bryan) 13. 11:59 AM - Re: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! (Tim Barnes) 14. 12:28 PM - Al Upright - food for thought (long) (Ken Brooks) 15. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: McMurdo Fuel/Jon Johanson (Terry Watson) 16. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: McMurdo Fuel/Jon Johanson (Stein Bruch) 17. 02:52 PM - Re: rear turtledeck skin (Dave Mader) 18. 04:34 PM - from Don Taylor's son to the Thorp list (Charlie & Tupper England) 19. 05:33 PM - Calculating AOA Values (Ross Mickey) 20. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: McMurdo Fuel/Jon Johanson (Boyd Braem) 21. 06:30 PM - Re: Calculating AOA Values (Boyd Braem) 22. 06:32 PM - Re: Calculating AOA Values (Kevin Horton) 23. 09:08 PM - GMA-340 installation manual (Dan Checkoway) 24. 09:41 PM - Tiedown Ring / Spacers () 25. 09:48 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual ('Scott Richardson') ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:30 AM PST US From: "lucky macy" Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" Has anyone installed and tested the AOA system yet in a plane that had another model of AOA? How do they compare? Same for G-meter and slip indicator. Never having flown an AOA, does Dynon's paperwork discuss how to fly it? How do you learn to use it to it's fullest extent safely? >From: "Ken Simmons" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:57:29 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > > >I think it will be much easier to do it before you close up the wings. I'm >at this stage right now. I've drilled and mounted the ports and I will >route the sensing tubes after I get the top skin riveted and before the >bottom skin. > >You can by this AOA in two subkits. The "A" kit just gives you the sensing >ports and plumbing and the "B" kit gives you the electronics. I've only >purchased the "A" kit since I won't need the electronics for a while. > >Ken > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Karie Daniel" >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:26:23 -0700 > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > > >I've been following the posts on the digital G-meter that Spruce sells > >and is currently on back order. After many hours of research I had > >planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep looking. > > > >On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA > >http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final > >panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the > >wings can this be installed later? > > > >Thanks, > >Karie Daniel > >RV-7A QB > >Sammamish, WA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I've been following the posts on the > >digital > >G-meter that Spruce sells and is currently on back order. After many > >hours of > >research I had planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep > >looking. > > > >On another note, I'm looking at > >purchasing the AOA > > >href"http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm">http://www.angle-of-attac> >k.com/aoa.htmand > >I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now > >before > >closing up the wings can this be installed later? > > > >Thanks, > >Karie Daniel > >RV-7A QB > >Sammamish, > >WA. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:01 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley"

, , , , Subject: RV-List: Fw: pneumatic rivet squeezer SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > I have pneumatic rivet squeezer on eBay. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/y6ih > > > > Thanks. > > > > Dave DeWinter > > Former RV6 builder and owner ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:54 AM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: Re: RV-List: difficult IFR platform ? --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" I have never been in IMC with a -6, however I think I would agree here. Without a wing leveler or something, the RV would be difficult to maintain in IMC with winds and turbulence. It's amazing how much muscle memory you use to keep her level on a windy turbulent day in good weather using your visual cues. Lose the visual cues, and you could lose it quick. Just a fog layer or something calm I don't think it would be much of an issue. The tail wag, however would definately cause some un nerving spatial confusion. I think the larger rudder now has solved that hasn't it? Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (RV-10 Soon) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boyd Braem" Subject: Re: RV-List: difficult IFR platform ? > --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem > > I think a lot of pilots are not prepared for the light/quick handling > of an RV, if they've had time in other airplanes. Plus, at least the > -6, has some tail wag (yaw) in turbulence. You have to learn about > your environment. > > Boyd > On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 12:35 AM, GMC wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" > > > > > >>> "The RV is a difficult IFR platform for the experienced pilot. " << > > > > > > Not sure who made the above statement but I think anyone that feels > > that way > > should do a very careful check for balance and friction in his elevator > > control system, any friction will make the aircraft difficult to fly > > accurately. My 6A is a pussycat! > > > > George McNutt > > Langley, BC > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:28 AM PST US From: a flyer Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: a flyer For how-to articles, see http://www.angle-of-attack.com/Articles.htm John Huft RV8 flying ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucky macy" Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments > --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" > > Has anyone installed and tested the AOA system yet in a plane that had > another model of AOA? How do they compare? Same for G-meter and slip > indicator. > > Never having flown an AOA, does Dynon's paperwork discuss how to fly it? How > do you learn to use it to it's fullest extent safely? > > > >From: "Ken Simmons" > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments > >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:57:29 -0600 > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" > > > > > >I think it will be much easier to do it before you close up the wings. I'm > >at this stage right now. I've drilled and mounted the ports and I will > >route the sensing tubes after I get the top skin riveted and before the > >bottom skin. > > > >You can by this AOA in two subkits. The "A" kit just gives you the sensing > >ports and plumbing and the "B" kit gives you the electronics. I've only > >purchased the "A" kit since I won't need the electronics for a while. > > > >Ken > > > > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > >From: "Karie Daniel" > >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:26:23 -0700 > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > > > > > >I've been following the posts on the digital G-meter that Spruce sells > > >and is currently on back order. After many hours of research I had > > >planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep looking. > > > > > >On another note, I'm looking at purchasing the AOA > > >http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm and I haven't placed the final > > >panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now before closing up the > > >wings can this be installed later? > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Karie Daniel > > >RV-7A QB > > >Sammamish, WA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I've been following the posts on the > > >digital > > >G-meter that Spruce sells and is currently on back order. After many > > >hours of > > >research I had planned on buying the same. I guess I'll have to keep > > >looking. > > > > > >On another note, I'm looking at > > >purchasing the AOA > > >

> >href"http://www.angle-of-attack.com/aoa.htm">http://www.angle-of-attac> >k.com/aoa.htmand > > >I haven't placed the final panel on the wings yet. Should I buy this now > > >before > > >closing up the wings can this be installed later? > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Karie Daniel > > >RV-7A QB > > >Sammamish, > > >WA. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:02 AM PST US From: "Dave Mader" Subject: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" Guys Just read Dan C. website and noted his disappointment with how the turtledeck skin met the side panel skin of his tip-up. I know there are not too many slow build kits left out there, but I have one and just finished trimming that same skin. Even though this is my 2nd RV and I've done it before, I blindly trimmed my skin to the exact dimensions that Van shows on his plans (too much eggnog). If you trim the two forward fingers of that skin to the dimension Van shows, (I believe they taper to 3") I guarantee they will not meet the side skins on the tip=up and create an even line. Mine were off over 3/4" Hate to buy a whole new rear skin but I can't live with that much mis-match. Just a heads-up for any that are about at that stage on a slow build! Dave Mader 2nd 6 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:49 AM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Speaking of Instruments --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com I meant to ask if anyone who's installed the DYNON EFIS into an existing flying RV with a prior AOA system would compare the 2 different systems. thanks. In a message dated 12/14/2003 8:49:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, luckymacy@hotmail.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" Has anyone installed and tested the AOA system yet in a plane that had another model of AOA? How do they compare? Same for G-meter and slip indicator. Never having flown an AOA, does Dynon's paperwork discuss how to fly it? How do you learn to use it to it's fullest extent safely? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:49 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" In the case of the RV-7, here's where the problem lies... Van's made the canopy frame so that the sides of the frame are exactly as tall as the "fingers" on that aft top skin. But then you gotta raise the canopy frame 1/8" off the deck to provide space for weatherstripping. So you'll instantly have an 1/8" issue if you do that. This photo shows the 1/8" offset of the canopy side skirt and the finger of the aft skin: http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20031208_drilled_handle.jpg On the -7, we don't have the "option" of trimming the rear window cutout where we want to. It's already cut for us (blessing or curse? somewhat typical of these new kits). I don't see an elegant way of resolving this cosmetic issue other than by using paint on the rear window...in other words, painting up higher than the skin edge to match the height of the canopy skirt. Yuck. I'm probably just going to live with it as-is. For those of you who *do* have an option of trimming where you want to, go for it! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mader" Subject: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" > > > Guys > > Just read Dan C. website and noted his disappointment with how the > turtledeck skin > met the side panel skin of his tip-up. I know there are not too many slow > build kits > left out there, but I have one and just finished trimming that same skin. > Even though this is my 2nd RV and I've done it before, I blindly trimmed my > skin to the > exact dimensions that Van shows on his plans (too much eggnog). If you trim > the two forward fingers of that > skin to the dimension Van shows, (I believe they taper to 3") I guarantee > they will not meet > the side skins on the tip=up and create an even line. Mine were off over > 3/4" > Hate to buy a whole new rear skin but I can't live with that much > mis-match. > Just a heads-up for any that are about at that stage on a slow build! > > Dave Mader > 2nd 6 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:48 AM PST US From: "Ron Walker" Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" Dave - I'll be at this point in the very near future. I'm looking at DC's site for the reference you mention ... can't quite mentally see what you are referring to. Can you send a specific link to the page ? Appreciated! Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mader" Subject: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" > > > Guys > > Just read Dan C. website and noted his disappointment with how the > turtledeck skin > met the side panel skin of his tip-up. I know there are not too many slow > build kits > left out there, but I have one and just finished trimming that same skin. > Even though this is my 2nd RV and I've done it before, I blindly trimmed my > skin to the > exact dimensions that Van shows on his plans (too much eggnog). If you trim > the two forward fingers of that > skin to the dimension Van shows, (I believe they taper to 3") I guarantee > they will not meet > the side skins on the tip=up and create an even line. Mine were off over > 3/4" > Hate to buy a whole new rear skin but I can't live with that much > mis-match. > Just a heads-up for any that are about at that stage on a slow build! > > Dave Mader > 2nd 6 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:09 AM PST US From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" As I recall... it's been a while, the dimensions shown on the plans specify that they are approximate in this area, and you have to cut to fit. I did it with cardboard, and used the cardboard as a transfer pattern for that whole rear sheet. That is such a large sheet of AL, that I wanted to make sure I didn't have to buy it again!! Even so, where the forward part of the "turtledeck" skin butts up against the tip-up, there was NO EXTRA. I had it slid as far forward as I could, and still retain some edge distance with the lap joint on the aft edge. Another way to do the template is to go to Home Despot or similar, and buy a big sheet of Mylar. Not too expensive, and it lets you see through, so you can include rivet spacing and all sorts of stuff. Much cheaper than replacing a huge aluminum skin. Keith RV-6 finish Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mader" Subject: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin >> > Guys > > Just read Dan C. website and noted his disappointment with how the > turtledeck skin > met the side panel skin of his tip-up. I know there are not too many slow > build kits > left out there, but I have one and just finished trimming that same skin. > Even though this is my 2nd RV and I've done it before, I blindly trimmed my > skin to the > exact dimensions that Van shows on his plans (too much eggnog). If you trim > the two forward fingers of that > skin to the dimension Van shows, (I believe they taper to 3") I guarantee > they will not meet > the side skins on the tip=up and create an even line. Mine were off over > 3/4" > Hate to buy a whole new rear skin but I can't live with that much > mis-match. > Just a heads-up for any that are about at that stage on a slow build! > > Dave Mader > 2nd 6 > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:18 AM PST US From: "Norman Hunger" Subject: Re: RV-List: Golf Clubs and Skis --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman Hunger" I'm a little late on reading the list but did you get the pics you wanted? I've made a completely sealed luggage compartment from the rear luggage bulkhead to the last upper bulkhead before the tail. The floor of the compartment is at the height of the longerons. It has lighting and tie downs, great for skis, golf clubs, or many other light long items. When doing the calculations for weight and balance, I figured the skis would have to go in with the tips to the rear and the back of the skis would be right behind the seats. For golf clubs, I figured I'd be taking the clubs out of the bag and bundling them for tie down purposes. Again they would have as much hanging over the baggage compartment as possible to keep the center of gravity forward. I have always had plans to put a CS prop on the front. If you are planning a wood prop I wouldn't try it but do the calculations. Norman Hunger Not Flying Yet RV6A Delta BC CASCAR Western Series #96 nhunger@sprint.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Golf Clubs > --> RV-List message posted by: "" > > > All, > > Being an avid golfer/fisherman, anyone out there modify the baggage compartment to store such things? I saw through the archives that Norman Hunger may have done something similar (but couldn't find any pics). If anyone has any pictures (to send offline) or a link to share it would be much appreciated...I would be happy to post them on my website for all to see if need be. > > Thanks, > Scott > RV7A Emp/Wings > > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:48 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Hey...I just watched Son Hoang fire up his O-360 RV-6A for the first time. Way cool! Anyway, the reason I mention it is because I noticed on his tip-up that there is a way to "cheat" in this canopy skir/rear skin joint area -- make a fiberglass layup going over the canopy at the roll bar (like I've seen on a zillion RVs). That totally deemphasizes the misalignment if the skins don't join up perfectly. I really don't want to make a layup on mine, since I think it looks cooler without it, although I reserve the right to change my mind (as usual). But I think that's one way to minimize the problem. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Walker" Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" > > Dave - I'll be at this point in the very near future. I'm looking at DC's > site for the reference you mention ... can't quite mentally see what you are > referring to. Can you send a specific link to the page ? > > Appreciated! > > Ron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Mader" > To: > Subject: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" > > > > > > Guys > > > > Just read Dan C. website and noted his disappointment with how the > > turtledeck skin > > met the side panel skin of his tip-up. I know there are not too many slow > > build kits > > left out there, but I have one and just finished trimming that same skin. > > Even though this is my 2nd RV and I've done it before, I blindly trimmed > my > > skin to the > > exact dimensions that Van shows on his plans (too much eggnog). If you > trim > > the two forward fingers of that > > skin to the dimension Van shows, (I believe they taper to 3") I guarantee > > they will not meet > > the side skins on the tip=up and create an even line. Mine were off over > > 3/4" > > Hate to buy a whole new rear skin but I can't live with that much > > mis-match. > > Just a heads-up for any that are about at that stage on a slow build! > > > > Dave Mader > > 2nd 6 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:20 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" All the things that were mentioned so far and one more. There are many people in your local EAA chapter more than willing to help as well. They do not have to be RV builders to help. In addition you might find a neighbor willing to buck rivets for the amusement. They can learn to be good buckers just like most wives do even if sometimes reluctant. 02 Tim Bryan RV-6 mostly built alone And extreme slow build - over 12 years now but nearly done. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:50 AM PST US From: "Tim Barnes" Subject: RE: RV-List: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Barnes" Gee Chuck, what kind of primer do you recomend???. Do you like the wash primer or the epoxy primer??. What brands of primer do you use??. What color is the best to use??. Do you like the hi-fill primer for fiberglass work??. What do you think about zink chromate in a spray can. Of course if you live in Cailfornia all the primer sucks!! but thats another story. >From: "C. Rabaut" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: PLease ! No more on "Primer" !! >Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:26:16 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" > >Terry, > > Please, oh please... no more on primer. > > Chuck > > >do not archive >----- Original Message ----- >From: Terry Watson > > As it appears > > that JJ is going to be on his way soon, maybe we can get back to some RV > > threads??? > > Linn > > OK, I give up. What's more of an RV thread than the current perilous >status > > of a guy in an RV in Antarctica who has flown his RV around the world a > > couple of times? Oh yes, primer! That's it. Let's hear some more ideas >on > > primer. > > Terry > > Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! http://shopping.msn.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:33 PM PST US From: "Ken Brooks" Subject: RV-List: Al Upright - food for thought (long) --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" My sincere condolences to Al's family. It is indeed a sad occasion when we lose one of our fraternity. We can conjecture and armchair quarterback until we're blue in the face, but I had a couple of initial thoughts after watching the video link to the local news after the wreckage was found. The wreckage was found in a "confined area", indicating a vertical flight path (stall and subsequent dive?). Secondly, Al was 80 years old, yet no one mentioned the possibility of a heart attack, etc. Fancy IFR equipment or not, an experienced pilot like Al had the ability to fly "partial panel" in the soup, using altimeter, ASI, VSI and turn coordinator. Once you exit controlled flight, though, all bets are off! The best IFR pilot in the world can't do a thing for himself until the airplane is once again flying, and even if Al was still concious throughout this critical time, the terrain may not have allowed him to fly out of the condition. Remember: "Respect the stall, respect the stall, respect the stall!" As for icing, during a recent flight in IFR, we encountered MODERATE RIME ICE with a ram air temperature of 17 centigrade! I wouldn't have believed it possible except that I saw it with my own eyes -- another reason to make an early decision to stay out of the soup. One last comment and I'll shut up. Equipment. A panel full of round instruments for IFR will cost between 8 - 10K. For another 5K, you can have a 3-D terrain moving map with elevations above you displayed in RED. None of us can speak for our departed brother, but it would be my guess that the extra cost of such equipment is dirt cheap insurance when considered over the lifetime of one's airplane. I'm not promoting any-brand over another, but with the technology available to us today that could one day keep your butt out of a sling, not to mention the confidence it could give you in all weather conditions, it makes sense to at least consider it for your custom-built, better-than-spam, OBAM airplane. All experienced pilots will tell you that it only takes one bad decision and a few seconds to turn an otherwise mundane $100 hamburger run into disaster. In the words of Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky, punk?" Again, my heartfelt prayers go out to the family of Al Upright. He lived a good, long life and he perished doing what he loves most. My thanks also to all of you guys and girls whose participation in this forum adds so much to the experience of building an airplane that will one day bring so many of us so much joy! Take care, fly safe, and let's be professional out there. Do Not Archive Ken Brooks Roscoe, IL ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:38 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: McMurdo Fuel/Jon Johanson --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Jon is on his way. This just in. Some of you might also be interested in the very last sentence. Stranded pilot leaves Antarctica MONDAY , 15 DECEMBER 2003 Australian pilot Jon Johanson is on his way from Antarctica to Invercargill after being stranded on the ice for a week, an Invercargill Airport official said today. Invercargill Airport operations manager Eric Forsyth said today Mr Johanson was in the air and expected to arrive at Invercargill airport this afternoon. Mr Johanson was due to fly out of Antarctica about midnight last night. Mr Forsyth could not confirm reports poor weather had delayed his departure by about two hours, but said if that was the case he would probably touch down about 4pm today. He said there had been earlier delays when Johanson had problems getting hold of an up to date weather report. Mr Forsyth said he had spoken to Mr Johanson before he left for Antarctica and had been in touch with his support people since. Mr Johanson, who had been attempting to fly to Argentina from New Zealand, over the South Pole, had been forced to land at McMurdo Base on Monday after flying to the South Pole without enough fuel to return to New Zealand or to reach Argentina. Mr Johanson had between 32 and 35 hours of fuel for a journey estimated to take 36 hours by going through the South Pole rather than the most direct route to Argentina, which would have taken 33 hours. He was criticised for having no search and rescue back-up or contingency plans in place. #para New Zealand and United States officials in Antarctica would not help him with fuel, saying it would encourage other Antarctic adventure-seekers. They also said the only fuel they had was for generators and not of aviation standard. Antarctica NZ was unimpressed with Mr Johanson, whom it said had undertaken an "ill-prepared and secret flight over the South Pole". British pilot Polly Vacher last week threw Mr Johanson a lifeline when she cancelled her trans-Antarctic charity flight offered to sell him fuel that she had earlier sent to Scott Base via a private cruise ship. Ms Vacher said she aborted her flight, which was two years in the planning, because of fuel supply difficulties and bad weather. New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Phil Goff and his Australian counterpart Alexander Downer met in the Marlborough Sounds Blenheim at the weekend to discuss a wide range of issues, including Mr Johanson's situation. Mr Downer said he was "pleased that a solution has been found to the problem. "I appreciate that the New Zealanders are prepared to facilitate the departure of Jon Johanson and his plane." Mr Goff welcomed Ms Vacher's gesture, calling it an "appropriate solution". He said Antarctica New Zealand's rules on not providing fuel - to discourage poorly planned expeditions - were in place for good reason and he was also pleased the situation had been resolved. Mr Downer said the pair had discussed the planned meeting of the Antarctic Treaty partners in May next year. ". . . It's an opportunity for us to ensure we all have good policies in place that discourage people from making journeys into the Antarctic region without first lodging a flight plans and making sure the authorities are aware of what they propose to do," he said. "It can be a very hazardous and dangerous part of the world." The Antarctic Treaty, which came into force in 1961, involves 44 nations who have agreed to the peaceful, international use of Antarctica, which has no indigenous inhabitants or government. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:58 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: McMurdo Fuel/Jon Johanson --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Whether true or not, this does not speak highly of a famous, multiple "world rounder's" flight planning. Personally makes me suspicious that someone with so much experience would cut it that close....so, is there another explanation?? I've sat back and kept my mouth shut on this, and whether the below is fact or fiction, I don't know. While I have a mountain of respect or Jon and his endeavors, this whole thing does not impress me at all. My take on the situation....look at the event he can now add to his accomplishments. Sometimes we never know the "whole" story, or peoples true motivations for doing things..... Before I get a ton of really condescending replies, let me pre-empt it by saying I do think JJ has done a ton of things to raise awareness of homebuilding, and his milestone accomplishments are truly deserving of merit. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis Do Not Archive I expect the flames to fly.......... --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Jon is on his way. This just in. Some of you might also be interested in the very last sentence. Stranded pilot leaves Antarctica MONDAY , 15 DECEMBER 2003 SNIP>>>>>>Mr Johanson had between 32 and 35 hours of fuel for a journey estimated to take 36 hours by going through the South Pole rather than the most direct route to Argentina, which would have taken 33 hours.<<<<<< ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:46 PM PST US From: "Dave Mader" Subject: RE: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" Ron In the upper right hand corner of drawing #36 it shows dimensions for cutting the rear turtledeck skin. If you look, the forward "fingers" of this skin taper to 3" which is just not wide enough to match up with the tip-up side panels. Dan refers this at his web site at http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20031208_drilled_handle.jpg Even though his issue is different, the end result is the same.....mis-match of the turtle- deck skin and the side panel. I realize Van warns not to cut to this dimension originally, but I just couldn't picture how this cutout had to match anything other the plexi and I would cut it to fit the skin. Also as Keith said, be sure to get this skin as far forward as you possibly can so that it will meet the side panels. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Hey...I just watched Son Hoang fire up his O-360 RV-6A for the first time. Way cool! Anyway, the reason I mention it is because I noticed on his tip-up that there is a way to "cheat" in this canopy skir/rear skin joint area -- make a fiberglass layup going over the canopy at the roll bar (like I've seen on a zillion RVs). That totally deemphasizes the misalignment if the skins don't join up perfectly. I really don't want to make a layup on mine, since I think it looks cooler without it, although I reserve the right to change my mind (as usual). But I think that's one way to minimize the problem. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Walker" Subject: Re: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" > > Dave - I'll be at this point in the very near future. I'm looking at DC's > site for the reference you mention ... can't quite mentally see what you are > referring to. Can you send a specific link to the page ? > > Appreciated! > > Ron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Mader" > To: > Subject: RV-List: rear turtledeck skin > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mader" > > > > > > Guys > > > > Just read Dan C. website and noted his disappointment with how the > > turtledeck skin > > met the side panel skin of his tip-up. I know there are not too many slow > > build kits > > left out there, but I have one and just finished trimming that same skin. > > Even though this is my 2nd RV and I've done it before, I blindly trimmed > my > > skin to the > > exact dimensions that Van shows on his plans (too much eggnog). If you > trim > > the two forward fingers of that > > skin to the dimension Van shows, (I believe they taper to 3") I guarantee > > they will not meet > > the side skins on the tip=up and create an even line. Mine were off over > > 3/4" > > Hate to buy a whole new rear skin but I can't live with that much > > mis-match. > > Just a heads-up for any that are about at that stage on a slow build! > > > > Dave Mader > > 2nd 6 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:12 PM PST US From: Charlie & Tupper England Subject: RV-List: from Don Taylor's son to the Thorp list --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England This post is from the son of Don Taylor, the 1st person to fly a homebuilt (a Thorp) around the world & over the north pole in the '70's. He obviously posted this before hearing that Jon is on his way home. Thought it might be of interest. Charlie do not archive -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [ThorpList] Not Welcome From: Taylor, Wilfred K Guys, Go to www.aero-news.net The current news screen will display... go to bottom of the page and request headlines form last week. Several in-depth articles on Johansson will be evident on the next screen. Scroll down until they come in view. There may also be articles from (2) weeks prior. On dad's first attempt around the world in 1974, he was held up in N Japan by severe winter WX and eventually shipped the acft back to the states in a box. In his 1976 flight he changed routes... then encountered a similar situation when flying to Hawaii. He declared a "slight" emergency into Midway Island... hoping to be left free to fly the shorter course N to Aleutians... which turned into a political nightmare due to USN "rules". I think Senator Goldwater [Dad is an Arizonan by birth] made all the difference. He was finally allowed to leave with really expensive avgas and billeting: he then flew direct to Aleutians and made it home safe a little-while later [with record in his back pocket]. OH yeah he saw corporate birds coming & going from Midway all the time, so he thinks the USN couldn't stand the scrutiny on it's policies. On the other hand he took a risk of loosing his acft and worse... getting lost over-water in a really inhospitable part of the world. I hate to say it, but Antarctica has an even worse problem than the N Pacific and AK when it comes to Acft operations. You just have to remember the DC-10(?) that crashed on a mountain in Antarctica [mid 80's???], while site-seeing [out of NZ or Aus]. I understand that recovery operations were a nightmare for all involved and disrupted operations severely. Probably caused Govt's to jack-up the rules unreasonably. Johansson ran into bad WX... and had to divert from a pre-planned rout with a [allowed] fuel-stop, to a research station that uses only turbine fuel... and all supply flights [in] are packed with pre-planned critical cargo. OH well he is safe and made a critical decision to be safe/conservative when chips were down. Hope he gets his acft back in one piece. I am surprised that Aus and NZ Governments weren't more aggressive in assisting a true "home-grown" aviation pioneer. As JT was fond of saying when it came to building and flying acft... A tortoise only makes progress when it's neck is stuck-out. World flight have risks... and demands "a stout ship", a "stout heart" and "good plan". Regards, Wil Taylor NOTE: GPS has opened up the world to safe/reliable navigation... wasn't so in the 70s--80s when Dad made his flights! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:14 PM PST US From: "Ross Mickey" Subject: RV-List: Calculating AOA Values --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" I have just started flying with my AOA Pro II in my RV6A. How do I calculate best glide, best rate of climb, best angle of climb, best cruise, approach AOA etc? I have read all the articles about AOA but have found nothing about this. Ross Mickey N9PT ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: McMurdo Fuel/Jon Johanson From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Stein-- Remember that winds in the Southern Ocean can get to 150-200 mph (depending on altitude) and the "forecasters" down there are few and far between. At least he didn't have to dodge 'bergs and growlers like the sailboat racers do. do not archive On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Stein Bruch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > Whether true or not, this does not speak highly of a famous, multiple > "world > rounder's" flight planning. Personally makes me suspicious that > someone > with so much experience would cut it that close....so, is there another > explanation?? > > I've sat back and kept my mouth shut on this, and whether the below is > fact > or fiction, I don't know. While I have a mountain of respect or Jon > and his > endeavors, this whole thing does not impress me at all. > > My take on the situation....look at the event he can now add to his > accomplishments. Sometimes we never know the "whole" story, or peoples > true > motivations for doing things..... ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Calculating AOA Values From: Boyd Braem --> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Ross-- The instructions with the AOA "Pro" (unless my mind is totally gone?) tell you how to exactly do those things. Boyd. do not archive On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 08:32 PM, Ross Mickey wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" > > I have just started flying with my AOA Pro II in my RV6A. How do I > calculate best > glide, best rate of climb, best angle of climb, best cruise, approach > AOA > etc? > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:17 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Calculating AOA Values --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" > >I have just started flying with my AOA Pro II in my RV6A. How do I >calculate best >glide, best rate of climb, best angle of climb, best cruise, approach AOA >etc? I have read all the articles about AOA but have found nothing about >this. > >Ross Mickey >N9PT There are no shortcuts I'm afraid. You'll need to do the flight testing to establish the speeds for best glide, etc at some standard weight. Then, once you have sorted out all the speeds, fly the aircraft to each speed in straight, level flight while loaded to your standard weight and note the AOA. Note - some of the speeds of interest will always be at the same AOA regardless of weight, altitude, etc. But some other speeds will actually be at different AOAs as you vary weight, altitude, etc. For example, at sea level, the speed for best angle of climb is less than the speed for best rate of climb, and thus the AOA for best angle of climb is higher than the AOA for best rate of climb. As you increase the altitude the speed for best angle of climb and best rate of climb will come closer together. They are the same speed at the absolute ceiling, so they are the same AOA too. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:13 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" , , Subject: RV-List: GMA-340 installation manual --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340 installation manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web site. Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and download it again. Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually, I know exactly why, but I don't agree with it! So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me. Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual: http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now while you still can. Enjoy, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Tiedown Ring / Spacers From: "" --> RV-List message posted by: "" Anyone got any tricks for keeping the W726 spacers in place when you back drill the tiedown ring mount (w731)? I can't seem to find the right clamp combination to keep them in place. Along, those lines, I had one slide when I was drilling. It caused me to elongate one of the holes in the spar. http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/DSC00313.JPG Should I worry about this? Since it is held in place by 7 other bolts and is not structural, I think it should be okay. I suppose I could drill it out to the next largest size if need be. Any thoughts? Thanks, Scott Haskins RV7A Wings http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:49 PM PST US From: "'Scott Richardson'" , , Subject: RV-List: RE: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual --> RV-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'" There were a couple Garmin manuals that I was looking for recently that were not included on their site (installation for GNC-300XL and GTX-327) and I just filled out their tech request and they emailed them both to me in PDF form within an hour or so - no questions asked. They've always been quite helpful - I just told them that I was building an experimental and intended to purchase their product. The form is at: http://www.garmin.com/contactUs/techSupport.jsp Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com; RV7or7A@yahoogroups.com; SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" --> Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340 installation manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web site. Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and download it again. Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually, I know exactly why, but I don't agree with it! So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me. Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual: http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now while you still can. Enjoy, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com = == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == ==