Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Mickey Coggins)
2. 01:50 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes & Ping-pong (GMC)
3. 04:21 AM - Re: F-631 cabin frame (Jim Bower)
4. 04:24 AM - Re: Riveting wing leading edge ribs...anyone use pop rivets? (Curt Hoffman)
5. 04:41 AM - Ballistic Chutes (Jim Nolan)
6. 06:35 AM - Re: Ballistic Chutes (Cy Galley)
7. 09:31 AM - Christmas gift (Wayne Pedersen)
8. 09:31 AM - Re: Riveting wing leading edge ribs...anyone use pop rivets? (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
9. 12:42 PM - "new" plexiglass & metal polishing videos (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
10. 12:52 PM - Matronics Internet Connection Repaired!! (Matt Dralle)
11. 12:59 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Jerry Springer)
12. 01:52 PM - Re: Christmas gift (Brian Denk)
13. 01:52 PM - Chutes for RVs (Jeff Peltier)
14. 02:18 PM - Re: Rv Christmas (Charles Rowbotham)
15. 02:27 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Brian Denk)
16. 03:18 PM - RBS (Steve Glasgow)
17. 04:28 PM - Re: RBS (Bob U.)
18. 04:31 PM - Shoulder harness (Dave Bristol)
19. 05:22 PM - BRS (Dave Bristol)
20. 05:53 PM - Re: -7 tail kit for sale (linn walters)
21. 06:02 PM - Re: Rv Christmas (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
22. 07:47 PM - Re: Christmas gift (Gert)
23. 09:55 PM - Re: Chutes for RVs (Jerry Springer)
24. 10:32 PM - Multiple postings (j1j2h3@juno.com)
25. 10:32 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (j1j2h3@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>Question is......
>Will you feel the same if/when the NTSB reports document
>that the BRS chute is not nearly the panacea many envision.
>
>Unfounded confidence seems to be the rule rather then the
>exception in today's technical world and hype is the life blood
>of the folks in marketing.
Hi Bob,
I could not agree more. If the reports show that the BRS
does not increase safety, then I won't consider it further.
I guess if you went back to the Matronics archives from
the 30's :-) you would find the same debate about aircraft
ejection seats. Not much debate any longer on that topic!
Happy Boxing Day!
--
Mickey
Message 2
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| Subject: | Ballistic parachutes & Ping-pong |
--> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Ballistic parachutes
I have heard of two Cirrus aircraft where the parachutes saved the life of
it's occupant. One was clear VFR test flight after maintenance when a part
(aileron) fell off (I think). Many other small experimentals also. Seems
like a good idea to provide another measure of safety and another escape
route for something unexpected. Why not! Jack RV9A
------------
RV pilots can never have enough training or safety devices. Personally I
think one of the shortcomings of the BRS, especially for those of us living
in costal areas is that it might drop us into the drink, so to speak.
In addition many airports have arrival departure paths over water and then
there are those rare but traumatic occasions where a forced landing without
a BRS will require a very difficult decision "will I take the water or the
trees".
To solve this problem I intend to patent a simple solution whereby builders
will be able to fill all unused wing bays and the horizontal stabilizer with
ping-pong balls. Simple, light, non-corrosive and a no-maintenance item that
will make your RV float! Just step out onto the wing and wait for a passing
boat.
Seasons Greetings to all and the best to everyone in 2004.
Do not archive!
George in Langley
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: F-631 cabin frame |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
David,
I will give you a call either Saturday or Monday to get your measurements on
this. Meanwhile, I think I will put this part on hold and work on something
else...there's never a shortage of side jobs to do! I will also draw this
on the computer in CorelDraw. Believe it or not, this handles measurements
very well and I can get a lot of information from it. Trig never was one of
my strong subjects, and it's been about 35 years since I had it, so I think
I'll let the electrons do my calculations for me.
Jim
>From: dcarter@datarecall.net
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: F-631 cabin frame
>Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:11:35 GMT
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: dcarter@datarecall.net
>
>Jim,
>
>1. Gap at top center is not a "strength" issue. Can have a gap - the 2
>plates that connect the halves provide 100% of the strength. Butting the
>ends
>together adds nothing, so don't worry about the gap, if you should find, on
>reflection (about things to follow), that you might need a bit of a gap.
>
>2. About the top brace distance down from top: It is true that is has
>nothing to do with the canopy material. However, it really is quite a big
>deal in getting the brace to hit the right spot on the baggage bulkhead and
>for the bottoms of the 631 roll bar to be positioned correctly for-aft so
>as
>to be CENTERED over the seat back AND some piece under it that you have to
>find on the drawings - otherwise, edge distances are if'y (luck or not).
> - I went to a flyin and observed a flying RV-6 with the feet about 3/4
>inch too far forward and therefore the bolts coming straight up thru seat
>back
>stuff was NOT through all the structural stuff - it was only through a
>single
>piece of sheet. (wish I had the drawing in front of me)
> - From the drawings, I drew the underlying stuff on top of the seat
>back
>to show the boundaries of where the feet could go and drew a centerline,
>then
>drew the shape of the roll bar feet angles in that area to help me position
>the roll bar correctly. Then all kind of convoluted measuring to check ht
>-
>the seat back brace sags in the middle where the ht dimention is supposed
>to
>be checked, so I shimmed and. . . . . .
> - If you wait until I get home Sat or Mon I can tell you exactly what
>the
>dimension is for brace down from top. Use that and then trim bottoms if
>needed and everything fits fine - in the areas you have drawn.
> - In any case, you may have to trim off part of the inner edge of
>the
>bottoms of the roll bar to get the height dimension correct. There really
>is
>no way from the plans to get all this stuff right - jigging like you are
>doing
>is the key - plus don't shy away from the simple trig to get the height
>dimension the plans don't give you.
>
>3. Just a word of caution about "moving the roll bar bottoms up on the feet
>(angles)" to get the height dimension called out in the plans: There is
>the
>normal issue of edge distance at top of feet/angles and bottom of roll bar
>ends that will impose some degree of limit on how much you can trim the
>feet.
>
>David
> ph away from home = 512-266-6955 & cell 409-718-8518
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder@hotmail.com>
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Thanks for the help! After reading the replies to my post, and doing a
> > little more thinking, I reached the following conclusion:
> >
> > I am going to jig those parts so as to eliminate the gap at top center.
>In
> > so doing, the height dimension is exactly 1/4" shorter than called on
>the
> > plans. HOWEVER, the plans show the F-631 dimension from the top of the
> > F-605 to the top of the F-631 (measured on a slant). This means that if
>the
> > 631 itself is shorter, no big deal. Just compensate by moving it up on
>the
> > feet until the correct distance has been achieved.
> >
> > As to the 1/4" distance from the roll bar top to the top of the
>brace...my
> > plans still have 1/4" called out. I have seen various treatments of
>that
> > topic, from 0 to the full 1/4". If I am not mistaken, that gap is
>really
> > meaningless as the top of that brace does not contact anything, right?
>(Or
> > wrong?)
> >
> > Happy new year
> >
> > Jim
>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>This message was sent using EXP Webmail.
>http://www.exp.net
>
>
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing leading edge ribs...anyone use pop rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9@cinci.rr.com>
With two people all the leading edge rivets are reachable with a little
effort. I had discussed all the techniques with Vans and they said you could
substitute a few pops in there, but give it a try first. With another
builder on the gun, I was able to use my normal bucking bar to get them all.
I did not make up the special bar although I said I would if necessary. My
bar, which I think I got from Avery is about 3" x 1" x 2" with a taper on
one end and rounded on the other end. Fits nicely in the palm of the hand
and I can get it virtually anywhere. I use this bar a lot. With the taper on
one end the sort of pointy end gets into the corners nicely.
We started with all the ones we could easily see and do and used the same
bar so we got into a rhythem on how long to hit the rivets. Then moved on to
the ones we couldn't see while we were doing it where we would just go by
the same amount of time to hit. Once you get in the rhythem it seems to go
easier then it looks when you are trying to figure out how to get at some of
them. You are bucking in the blind on a few but that's not a problem. I used
a small mirror on a stem to check the shop heads but we could pretty much
tell how they were by feel.
My reco- get an experienced person on the gun and you hold the bar and go
for it. Feels good when done.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
HD Road King Classic
(Maybe I need a boat too)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Riveting wing leading edge ribs...anyone use pop
rivets?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
>
> On the leading edge installation, I used solid rivets where I could get a
> good one, and pop rivets where the quality of my blind rivet installation
> would be in doubt. The way I see it, a good blind rivet (as long as it's
> structurally ok) is better than a badly installed solid rivet. I am more
> interested in a good strong airframe than a champion aircraft.
> Cammie
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Howell <jehowell@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> I'm having the expected trouble riveting the leading edge ribs on my
> RV-7 wings....the list archives spell out various techniques involving
> grinding down offset rivet sets, use of hockey tape, manufacturing
> special bucking bars to enable back riveting etc. It occurs to me that
> it would be extremely simple to just use pop rivets. Has anyone done
> this? Would there be reduced structural integrity? Is there any
> reason not to, other than one's sense of aesthetics? Is there a
> recommended pop-rivet spec to use?
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry
> RV-7A
> Wings
> Tampa, FL
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ballistic Chutes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
Questions to ponder when building an RV
1. Do I need a backup Radio if I intend to fly IFR----No, because the one I
have is the best on the market.
2. Do I need a dedicated Carb heat muff-----No, because the Lycomings have
the carb sitting on the hot oil pan and that will keep ice from forming.
3. Do I need a Heated pitot------No, because I'm not going to be dumb enough
to fly in those conditions.
4. Do I need a backup electrical system-----No, because I haven't got a lot
of extra power consuming crap like radios, heated pitots and gauges that a
good pilot doesn't need.
5. Do I need more training----No, because the training I have has made me
proficient up to this point.
6. Do I think I'd ever need a Ballistic Chute if it were available for my
RV------ YOU ADD YOUR REASON
Have a happy Holiday everyone.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic Chutes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I disagree with at least two of your premises...
The heat muff as although the Lycoming location reduces, it doesn't
eliminate carb icing.
The other is the pitot heat as you say you are going to fly IFR. Maybe you
have heard needle, ball and airspeed in emergency. Pitot heat gives you the
chance to still have airspeed when in a cloud under freezing conditions.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ballistic Chutes
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
>
> Questions to ponder when building an RV
> 1. Do I need a backup Radio if I intend to fly IFR----No, because the one
I
> have is the best on the market.
> 2. Do I need a dedicated Carb heat muff-----No, because the Lycomings have
> the carb sitting on the hot oil pan and that will keep ice from forming.
> 3. Do I need a Heated pitot------No, because I'm not going to be dumb
enough
> to fly in those conditions.
> 4. Do I need a backup electrical system-----No, because I haven't got a
lot
> of extra power consuming crap like radios, heated pitots and gauges that a
> good pilot doesn't need.
> 5. Do I need more training----No, because the training I have has made me
> proficient up to this point.
> 6. Do I think I'd ever need a Ballistic Chute if it were available for my
> RV------ YOU ADD YOUR REASON
> Have a happy Holiday everyone.
> Jim Nolan
> N444JN
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne@pedersentransport.com>
My youngest daughter gave me a Van's calendar for Christmas. While I was
flipping through it I was describing each plane. I got to the RV10 and my
wife asked "Is that the new four seater ?" I did the best to answer her
questions on it and then she said "You are going to build that once you are
done your -7a aren't you?" To which I responded "That's another big time and
resource commitment" "Doesn't matter", she said "I think you better build it
and I will help"
Hmmmmm looks like I am in a tough spot people. I have to look forward to
building another RV !!!!
Merry Christmas
Wayne
S.Alberta
RV 7-a working on panel
P.S.
My wife is working on her private license and YES she does have a sister !
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing leading edge ribs...anyone use pop rivets? |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
In a message dated 12/26/2003 4:26:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
choffman9@cinci.rr.com writes:
I used
a small mirror on a stem to check the shop heads but we could pretty much
tell how they were by feel.
Braille rivet inspection.
If you press on the formed head with your finger, it will leave an impression
of the formed rivet head on your finger, briefly. You can then "see" the
formed rivet head without needing a mirror.
Jim Ayers
RV-3
Message 9
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| Subject: | "new" plexiglass & metal polishing videos |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Here are two "new" RV related videos we now have in stock. I quoted "new"
because each has actually been around for many many years, but they are new
to us, and so perhaps new to you. Both are listed on the front page - new
items section of www.buildersbooks.com
EYES OF FLIGHT - PLEXIGLASS
This is a historic military training film, probably made in the '50s. Once
you get beyond the nonsense (some of it pretty funny), you'll find a lot of
good information on working with and maintaining plexiglass canopies and
windows, including techniques for:
cutting and sawing
drilling
thermal expansion and attachments to metal frames
forming with molds
materials caustic to plexiglass
buffing and polishing to remove scratches
repairing cracked areas and patching
POLISHING ALUMINUM AIRCRAFT
I yet to see a polished RV. Perhaps because no one's yet been inclined to
take the extra 3 years you'd need to build an aluminum cowl and set of
aluminum fairings. But if you are so inclined, here is a video from Swift
Aircraft showing how to get that famous mirror finish including the best
materials, equipment, and techniques found after almost 50 years of doing it
best.
Thanks,
Andy
www.buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Matronics Internet Connection Repaired!! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
The phone company was out here bright and early this morning and repaired
the wires and the T1 connection is back up and rock solid!
Again my apologies for any inconvenience the disruption may have caused.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
>
>
>>Question is......
>>Will you feel the same if/when the NTSB reports document
>>that the BRS chute is not nearly the panacea many envision.
>>
>>Unfounded confidence seems to be the rule rather then the
>>exception in today's technical world and hype is the life blood
>>of the folks in marketing.
>>
>>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I could not agree more. If the reports show that the BRS
>does not increase safety, then I won't consider it further.
>
>I guess if you went back to the Matronics archives from
>the 30's :-) you would find the same debate about aircraft
>ejection seats. Not much debate any longer on that topic!
>
>Happy Boxing Day!
>
>--
>Mickey
>
>
>
You are right I never see a debate about ejection seats from Piper,
Cessna, Beech or any other non military manufacturered aircraft. :-)
Jerry
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:06:24 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Pedersen"
><wayne@pedersentransport.com>
>
>My youngest daughter gave me a Van's calendar for Christmas. While I was
>flipping through it I was describing each plane. I got to the RV10 and my
>wife asked "Is that the new four seater ?" I did the best to answer her
>questions on it and then she said "You are going to build that once you are
>done your -7a aren't you?" To which I responded "That's another big time
>and
>resource commitment" "Doesn't matter", she said "I think you better build
>it
>and I will help"
>
>Hmmmmm looks like I am in a tough spot people. I have to look forward to
>building another RV !!!!
>
>Merry Christmas
>
>Wayne
>S.Alberta
>RV 7-a working on panel
>
>P.S.
>
>My wife is working on her private license and YES she does have a sister !
Oh yes indeed, you're lucky! My wife let me build my RV8, then probably
figured it was out of my blood...which it WAS, as attested by four years of
RV grins and almost no sheet metal work. But then, along came our little
boy, and the need for more seats. Then, Van works his magic and the -10 is
born. After Deb tried on the -10 at LOE3, she was positively jazzed, and
wanted me to get started NOW! I had already placed my empecone order at OSH
(courtesy of my fine friends from the SoCal RV squadron). So, it was just a
matter of playing the waiting game. My -10 kit is somewhere enroute to my
shop as I write this. Santa must have run out of gross weight margin on his
sleigh so Roadway Trucking had to help out.
I'm reaaallly looking forward to building again, but am also scared half to
death. Oh well, great things never happen until you cry, sweat and bleed a
little, and we're not just talking financially here. :)
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 51
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
http://wine.msn.com
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Peltier <jeffpeltier@brsparachutes.com>
Dear RV enthusiasts,
Thanks for the speedy replies! I always find it fascinating how fast people
are willing to throw in their 2 cents. And of course, the opinions usually
run to each side of the spectrum. The folks without a strong opinion- one
way or the other- don't bother to write.
Based on some of the responses, I'd like to dispel a few myths and maybe
educate a few people on what we do.
At BRS, we are the FIRST to advise that the parachute IS NOT the "panacea"
that some would think we believe it is. It is never an excuse for poor
building practices, maintenance, training or piloting skills. Our manuals
state that clearly. It is primarily for those occasions when all other means
of problem solving have been expended.
As of the first part of December, BRS have saved the lives of at least 159
individuals (we don't always get reports of all saves). A deployment on a
Cirrus aircraft in late 2002 was our first save on a CERTIFIED aircraft.
That aircraft is now flying again, by the way.
In business for 22 years, over 17,000 units delivered. Nearly 1% of all
units delivered have been used in real, life-saving events! In comparison,
airbags in cars have saved (?) 1 person for every 50,000 units. These
government mandated safety devices have killed at least 80 children under
the age of 12. Ballistic parachutes have never actually KILLED anyone, that
we are aware of. I'm all for airbags, however. Used correctly, save lives!
Parachutes are not a mysterious device which sometimes open and sometimes
don't. It is not a matter of luck or special dispensation from God which
makes a parachute deploy. It is the same phenomenon which makes your wing
create lift. The air passing over the outside of the parachute as its towed
by its payload, creates a low pressure area on the outside- literally
causing it to be "sucked" open by the atmosphere around it! (In fact, the
purpose of the patented Slider on BRS parachutes is to keep the 'chute from
opening TOO fast).
"George in Langley" shared a concern about dangers of deploying over water.
I have a couple comments about that.
- Ditching an airplane, especially a low wing fixed gear airplane is extreme
bad news. The airplane WILL be very violently thrown on its back. If the
canopy doesnt shatter, it will probably remain secured in place against the
external pressures caused by the surrounding water and the weight of the
sinking aircraft. You're upside down in a bowl filling with very cold and
debris filled water, trying to extract yourself and your panicking, flailing
armed 14 year old neighbor kid (his first Young Eagle ride) from this mess
that YOU, as PIC and manufacturer of the aircraft, are responsible for.
- It is not the fault of the parachute system that you may have been over
water in the event you have to use it- it is the event itself.
- It would be infinitely safer to contact the water in a controlled vertical
descent, that would more than likely leave you right side up. Descent under
parachute gives you the time to plan your escape.
"Phil from Litchfield Aerobatic club" would rather use a personal chute pack
system.
- At this time, its still the requirement for aerobatic flight- there is no
provision for waiver with ballistic chute.
- Having just rode in an RV-6 2 days ago, I would have to surmise that you
would have to be a very tiny individual to fit in the aircraft with a
parachute on AND still be able to get out of it when you need to.
- An experienced skydiver would most likely need to be out and clear of the
aircraft at least 1,500' agl. This would be quite a stretch for most pilots
and passengers, especially seeing that most people tend to stay with the
aircraft far too long.
- 100% useless at traffic pattern alt or less.
In ending, every pilot flies with his own unique circumstances. We must
weigh the risks each time we take-off. We will take-off (hopefully) only
when we have assured ourselves that the benefits of this particular flight
are greater than the probability of experiencing the worst possible outcome.
As PICs, we tend to accept that risk for the joy and satisfaction our hobby
gives us. Your passengers generally don't share your exact outlook. When
they fly with you they place their lives in your competence, skill and
decision making abilities.
I'm in engineering, not the sales department. This is meant to spawn a bit
more thinking into the matter. Can't wait to read the replies after this
one.
Jeff Peltier
Design Engineer
BRS INC
jeffpeltier@BRSparachutes.com
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Austin,
As I've said many time before - THANKS.
Take Care and best wishes for a great New Year,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: "rv-list rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Rv Christmas
>Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 13:49:32 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
>
>Hi Listers ,
> And a merry Christmas and even better New Year to you
>all.
>Another Christmas.
>And where are we with the RV, our timeline, and mission statement ..flying
>wise ?
>A mystical day, in a sense, Christmas before the frenzy of driving, dinner,
>family, kids, job, time,...more time we need to get to where we want to
>be...RV wise, we don't talk about it much, we just have this goal....
>Finish it and fly it...consummation......
>And for those fortunate to be done, time on our side and finished, the
>hangar door is our holy grail...
>In my part of the world, rain was forecast, but as usual, they are only 50
>%
>right...Expert weather man that I am, I am batting just as good an average
>as the TV weather man, in that my forecast says that the weather today will
>be much like it was yesterday...and my average is pretty good.
>Yes, there is a cloudbase about 3,000...but light and pink underneath and
>lightwind.
>A good day to fly when so many others have other things to do and agendas
>of
>far more import.
>Do you secretly sense a kind of thrill when you unlock the hangar door and
>see your RV spinner the first to greet you and tell you that all the work
>and time and money and lies and budget fudging are standing here, waiting
>for you to open the doors all the way and let me out and start the engine
>and listen to nothing else but the prop and exhaust and the monotone of
>ATIS
>and finally lift your gaze to clear taxi ?
> Even though I try each time to stay straight on the painted line as
>throttle up pulls me along, I always stagger a bit and before I can feel I
>have command enough to make this horse track straight...the wheels are no
>longer exacting any drag for they are free of the tarmac and we are rising
>swiftly.
>It is as easy as that !
> I don't even mind the noise, and it drowns everything else, but I
>have
>things to do, and enjoying the falling away landscape seems to be the
>uppermost ..
>Turn off the boost pump, trim a bit, throttle the noise back, get a smug
>smile at what the GPS is saying and look around.....ain't this a special
>way
>to spend part of a Christmas day ?...
>Later, at the table, with family dear, and kids and spouses and
>in-laws....this is a special time of get together and values, but an RV
>pilot has already had their " religious experience " this day...
> Ever been to a stadium out of season ? when all the seats are
>empty
>and the crowd and noise are but a memory ?
> Weird.
>Well, landing at a normally busy field on Christmas day to find it empty,
>the coffee shop closed and dark and no other sounds of airplanes starting
>up
>or taxiing in is equally weird....
>Are we the only airplane guys in the sky today ?
>Heading home with the wind at our backs and GPS telling amazing stories,
>home field appears at 10 o'clock and nobody else is talking to the
>tower...at first, I wonder if the radio is working....no voices....
>But good old radio does work and a voice bids " straight in " from 6 miles
>out....or more....
>My landings are never the same as to how far out I get serious, but finally
>I quit looking at the airspeed and just how high or low the nose seems to
>be
>from the paint lines and somehow the RV finds her own glidepath and the
>tires kiss the blacktop.......now rolling out is something else again
>because I think I am a lousy pilot and I get a shimmy and try to kil it by
>back pressure, and it works..for a while.....by this time...it is time to
>clear active and why I have to monitor ground beats me as there is no other
>life around..but home we go and put her away and before closing the doors,
>my hand on the cowling feels the warmth of life and I sense the wonder of
>all these parts that bore me up once more for my " fix "....
>I believe I am addicted....
>At locking up, my thoughts turn to those I have known or read about who no
>longer have a Christmas for whatever reason and those who made it safe for
>me to enjoy what others paid the ultimate price for me to savour.
>God bless you all, and those forever young..
>Austin.
>
>
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and
yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 22:43:08 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Genev E Reed <genevreed@juno.com>
>
>Paul: Don't do aerobatics your butt can't cash. ? What does that mean.
>Doyle RV7A
To me it means, don't get into something you can't finish....don't start a
loop too slow and not be prepared to deal with a spin at the top.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
another "wannabe pilot" but learning more every time I fly.
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Sometimes you guys remind me of my grandchildren! Offer them candy and they may
say "no I don't like that", only because they have never tried it. I say let
the engineers work on it, show us what they come up with and how it might help
us, then maybe we can make an intelligent decision.
Till then I'm keeping an open mind!
Later,
Steve Glasgow
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
>Sometimes you guys remind me of my grandchildren! Offer them candy and they may
say "no I don't like that", only because they have never tried it. I say let
the engineers work on it, show us what they come up with and how it might help
us, then maybe we can make an intelligent decision.
>
>
>Till then I'm keeping an open mind!
>
>
>Later,
>
>
>Steve Glasgow
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OK, grandad....
I give up.
What's an 'RBS'? O:-)
Bob - over 50 years of successful flight
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Shoulder harness |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Listers,
I finally found the document that talks about shoulder belt attachment
points and the rule says, less than 30 deg. above the shoulders and no
more than 5 deg below the shoulders.
The document is AC-21-34 and can be found at:
http://www2.faa.gov/avr/afs/safety/harness/AC%2021-34.pdf
It will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about seat belt and
shoulder harness installation!
Dave -6, So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
I just looked at the BRS website and it looks like an appropriate system
for an RV6 would be about $11,000.00. (More than a third of the cost of
my airplane) I personally think that eleven thousand dollars could be
better spent on ratings and equipment. Yes, I do believe that it would
add a measure of safety but the cost, both in dollars and in weight will
most likely never be in my budget. If I ever get that paranoid about
flying my own airplane, I'll buy an airline ticket.
Dave
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: -7 tail kit for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
New, unopened RV-7 tail kit for sale. Located in Tampa FL. $1200
delivered in FL. Plus shipping elsewhere.
email Mark Conner (Not Linn) @ mconner7@tampabay.rr.com
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Christmas gift |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
So...what's the sisters phone number????
Do not Archive
Wayne Pedersen wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne@pedersentransport.com>
>
> My youngest daughter gave me a Van's calendar for Christmas. While I was
> flipping through it I was describing each plane. I got to the RV10 and my
> wife asked "Is that the new four seater ?" I did the best to answer her
> questions on it and then she said "You are going to build that once you are
> done your -7a aren't you?" To which I responded "That's another big time and
> resource commitment" "Doesn't matter", she said "I think you better build it
> and I will help"
>
> Hmmmmm looks like I am in a tough spot people. I have to look forward to
> building another RV !!!!
>
> Merry Christmas
>
> Wayne
> S.Alberta
> RV 7-a working on panel
>
> P.S.
>
> My wife is working on her private license and YES she does have a sister !
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Chutes for RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Here is my reply, after reading yours I want a BRS even less than
before. You use scare tactics and untruths
to try to justify your chute on an RV. Using an example of a young
eagle, (scare tactic) saying you have to be a tiny
person to exit an RV-6. (untrue) I am 6'3" 210 lb. and would not have a
problem getting out. Yes I have jumped out of
airplanes before still do not see a need for ballistics in an RV. BRS
were originally designed for ultralights that were having
structural failures in the early stages. I believe that is still the
best use of ballistic chutes after reading your saves and all the
malfunctions on the airplanes they are installed on.
BTW tell us what Van thinks of using ballistic chutes on his design? You
say it is not an excuse for poor building
practices, well I doubt very much that anyone is going to build their
airplane poorly and say to him/herself I well just use a
a BRS. So I guess I am still waiting for the myths you are going to
dispel. By your 2 cent comment seems like you
are not happy with the comments that don't agree with yours. BTW I
noticed in your saves list only one Cirrus
listed wasn't there another one where the chute did not deploy
correctly? March 2002 I believe.
Of course this is all my opinions and others should do as they feel best
for them.
Jerry
do not archive
Jeff Peltier wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Peltier <jeffpeltier@brsparachutes.com>
>
>Dear RV enthusiasts,
>
>Thanks for the speedy replies! I always find it fascinating how fast people
>are willing to throw in their 2 cents. And of course, the opinions usually
>run to each side of the spectrum. The folks without a strong opinion- one
>way or the other- don't bother to write.
>
>Based on some of the responses, I'd like to dispel a few myths and maybe
>educate a few people on what we do.
>
>At BRS, we are the FIRST to advise that the parachute IS NOT the "panacea"
>that some would think we believe it is. It is never an excuse for poor
>building practices, maintenance, training or piloting skills. Our manuals
>state that clearly. It is primarily for those occasions when all other means
>of problem solving have been expended.
>
>As of the first part of December, BRS have saved the lives of at least 159
>individuals (we don't always get reports of all saves). A deployment on a
>Cirrus aircraft in late 2002 was our first save on a CERTIFIED aircraft.
>That aircraft is now flying again, by the way.
>
>In business for 22 years, over 17,000 units delivered. Nearly 1% of all
>units delivered have been used in real, life-saving events! In comparison,
>airbags in cars have saved (?) 1 person for every 50,000 units. These
>government mandated safety devices have killed at least 80 children under
>the age of 12. Ballistic parachutes have never actually KILLED anyone, that
>we are aware of. I'm all for airbags, however. Used correctly, save lives!
>
>Parachutes are not a mysterious device which sometimes open and sometimes
>don't. It is not a matter of luck or special dispensation from God which
>makes a parachute deploy. It is the same phenomenon which makes your wing
>create lift. The air passing over the outside of the parachute as its towed
>by its payload, creates a low pressure area on the outside- literally
>causing it to be "sucked" open by the atmosphere around it! (In fact, the
>purpose of the patented Slider on BRS parachutes is to keep the 'chute from
>opening TOO fast).
>
>"George in Langley" shared a concern about dangers of deploying over water.
>I have a couple comments about that.
>- Ditching an airplane, especially a low wing fixed gear airplane is extreme
>bad news. The airplane WILL be very violently thrown on its back. If the
>canopy doesnt shatter, it will probably remain secured in place against the
>external pressures caused by the surrounding water and the weight of the
>sinking aircraft. You're upside down in a bowl filling with very cold and
>debris filled water, trying to extract yourself and your panicking, flailing
>armed 14 year old neighbor kid (his first Young Eagle ride) from this mess
>that YOU, as PIC and manufacturer of the aircraft, are responsible for.
>- It is not the fault of the parachute system that you may have been over
>water in the event you have to use it- it is the event itself.
>- It would be infinitely safer to contact the water in a controlled vertical
>descent, that would more than likely leave you right side up. Descent under
>parachute gives you the time to plan your escape.
>
>"Phil from Litchfield Aerobatic club" would rather use a personal chute pack
>system.
>- At this time, its still the requirement for aerobatic flight- there is no
>provision for waiver with ballistic chute.
>- Having just rode in an RV-6 2 days ago, I would have to surmise that you
>would have to be a very tiny individual to fit in the aircraft with a
>parachute on AND still be able to get out of it when you need to.
>- An experienced skydiver would most likely need to be out and clear of the
>aircraft at least 1,500' agl. This would be quite a stretch for most pilots
>and passengers, especially seeing that most people tend to stay with the
>aircraft far too long.
>- 100% useless at traffic pattern alt or less.
>
>In ending, every pilot flies with his own unique circumstances. We must
>weigh the risks each time we take-off. We will take-off (hopefully) only
>when we have assured ourselves that the benefits of this particular flight
>are greater than the probability of experiencing the worst possible outcome.
>As PICs, we tend to accept that risk for the joy and satisfaction our hobby
>gives us. Your passengers generally don't share your exact outlook. When
>they fly with you they place their lives in your competence, skill and
>decision making abilities.
>
>I'm in engineering, not the sales department. This is meant to spawn a bit
>more thinking into the matter. Can't wait to read the replies after this
>one.
>
>Jeff Peltier
>Design Engineer
>BRS INC
>jeffpeltier@BRSparachutes.com
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Multiple postings |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Those are only 4 of the reasons that I use Juno.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
>Sorry about the multiple postings.
>I'm using AOL 9.0.
>Sometimes it sends the message and says so.
>Sometimes it sends the message, and doesn't say so.
>Sometimes it doesn't send the message.
>Sometimes it just lock up my computer.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Just my $.02 worth.
Re the weight and cost issue - I think MOST people agree that it's a
good idea to wear chutes for aerobatics. Okay - what is the cost and
weight of 2 chutes vs. 1 BRS? Also, I haven't seen a definitive answer
as to whether its even possible to open an RV canopy at anything above 80
mph.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
P.S. Santa was really good to me - a Smart Tool level, 1/2 hour in a
Boeing N2S-5, and a full hour in an AT-6.
Do not archive
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