Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:50 AM - Propeller Flange Bushings (Neil Henderson)
2. 02:53 AM - Re: Chutes for RVs (Bob U.)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Bob U.)
4. 05:08 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (linn walters)
5. 05:53 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs HTML_TITLE_EMPTY (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
6. 05:57 AM - Re: Propeller Flange Bushings (Bob n' Lu Olds)
7. 07:42 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Jim Sears)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Insurance Questions (Jim Sears)
9. 07:59 AM - Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Glen Matejcek)
10. 08:26 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Paul Besing)
11. 08:38 AM - Alternator Belt-Please Help (Emmanuelle Richard)
12. 09:29 AM - Re:Chutes for RV's (Glen Matejcek)
13. 09:29 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Ollie Washburn)
14. 09:49 AM - Re: Chutes for RVs (Ed Bundy)
15. 10:24 AM - Re: Chutes on RV's (John)
16. 10:58 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Blanton Fortson)
17. 10:58 AM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Gert)
18. 12:03 PM - Re: Ballistic Chutes (Rob Prior)
19. 12:04 PM - Books/Videos for Sale (Lyden, James D)
20. 12:31 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs HTML_TITLE_EMPTY (Rob Prior)
21. 01:12 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs HTML_TITLE_EMPTY (Leesafur@aol.com)
22. 03:06 PM - More on chutes for RV's (Richard Scott)
23. 03:35 PM - Re: More on chutes for RV's (Boyd Braem)
24. 04:10 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Kysh)
25. 04:43 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Tom Gummo)
26. 05:02 PM - Gary VanRemortel (Louis Willig)
27. 06:05 PM - Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs (Boyd Braem)
28. 06:24 PM - Re: The Night Before Christmas, RV Style (James E. Clark)
29. 07:35 PM - Re: Gary VanRemortel (Terry Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Propeller Flange Bushings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51@btopenworld.com>
Listers
I need to change the propeller flange bushings on my 0-320 to take 7/16" dia prop
bolts. I assume these are likely to be expensive items, what should I expect
to pay and can anyone recommend a good source.
Thanks
Neil RV9-A Aylesbury UK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Chutes for RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
Jeff Peltier wrote:
>>>1. I read that the Cirrus that is back flying was a FREAK SAVE. The
>>>report I read stated that tree branches or some such broke the fall of
>>>the aircraft sufficiently before it hit the ground - if it even hit the
>>>ground, allowing the airframe to be reused at practical costs.
>>>
>
>The Cirrus save you mention is not considered a "freak" save by any means.
>When airplanes are drop tested to determine spinal loads on the occupants,
>its done on very hard concrete-virtually anything else is gravy to us. The
>trees in that incident also served to pitch the aircraft forward just prior
>to touchdown, forcing the nose assembly to absorb virtually all the impact,
>not the mains as designed.
>
Jeff,
Perhaps you did not understand my definition of FREAK SAVE. I was
referring to the aircraft being saved and back in the air... flying
again. Nothing to do with the occupants surviving.
Are you stating that aircraft equipped with a BRS parachute system can
be expected to be placed back in service after deployment... just like
the Cirrus example you gave the list?
Quoting you....
"A deployment on a
Cirrus aircraft in late 2002 was our first save on a CERTIFIED aircraft.
That aircraft is now flying again, by the way."
Bob
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
Blanton Fortson wrote:
>Frankly, I think we are mostly silly to fly around without helmets and
>Nomex suits, but that's another discussion.
>
>In a sense, it may be that single engine powered flight is a overrated
>concept. There can be a rather huge downside to the motor quting, and
>motors do quit.
>
>B.
>
==================================
Most interesting, Blanton.
In a sense, it may be single engine powered
automobiles are an overrated concept, as well.
Highway deaths were 42,815 in 2002. :-(
Throw in the crippled and maimed survivors and
you have the makings of a real eye opener.
Don't happen to drive an SUV do ya?
Rollover fatalities are triple for this class of vehicle.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/transportation_us_auto_deaths/
BTW...
What mode of transportation do you use to get to the airport?
Do you drive defensively wearing a nomex suit and helmet....
or just need to don them for fomenters like me on the 'net? :-D
Bob - figures can lie and liars can figure.
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
HTML_TITLE_EMPTY
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
All this talk about BRS makes me wonder why everyone is, all of a
sudden, becoming pessimists? Now don't get me wrong, I wear one when
I'm doing ACRO, but only because I thought the FARs said so, and I've
had friends with airplanes that came apart in the air. I've never known
anyone who jumped while on a cross-country, flying straight and level.
We've kicked this dead horse until it's not even recognizeable anymore.
So, I have an idea. Let's just divide the folks on the left from those
on the right (I wasn't speaking of your political orientation) and we'll
arbitrarily call these two groups the 'don't want one' and 'want one'
camps. If you're of the 'I don't care' group, don't worry ...... there
will be a lot of switching groups down the road when it becomes time to
make the decision. At least then maybe we can have some factual
dialogue about the subject. As it is, there's no firm price, no
installation instructions, no hardware made, no concrete specs .......
nothing but a conceptual idea, and we don't really know much about that
either. Let's face it, there are those among us that like the idean and
it's appealing to them. To others, it's not. It matters not how much
the cost, how much the weight ..... it doesn't matter. We have VFR only
pilots building airplanes with full-blown panels that make the jet
jockeys drool. So what. I'm sure not going to tell them it's a waste
of money installing capabilities that take a college degree (in each
item) to program and use. IT'S THEIR TOY!!!
And, like was said before ...... with all the RV's out there (Thank you
Van) there is a market. So, instead of beating the BRS into the ground,
support the company in it's ideas (not necessarily the cash) because
they just MIGHT come up with something else that you just gotta have.
OK, the soapbox is available ..... if you want to flame me, change the
subject line .... I updated my filter!
Y'all have a great new years ..... 2004 should prove to be a very
interesting year!!!
Linn (RV-10 on the horizon)
do not archive
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
>
>Blanton Fortson wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
>>
>>Jerry,
>>
>>BRS wasting their time? I think not. Other than a decrease in useful
>>load and the $, there's not much of a trade-off. I'm guessing, Jerry,
>>that you might be one of those mid-western pilots, rarely far from
>>decent forced landing alternatives.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Actually I am an Oregon pilot, living about 6 miles from RV mecca. :-)
>
>
>
>>Being an Alaska guy, I'm often
>>over terrain I'd rather not land in. Quite often, really. As in
>>completely absolutely unlandable and hospitable . Have you never been
>>there (over unlandable terrain)?
>>
>>
>>
>Yes
>
>
>
>>Then there is night flying. The
>>darkness is great at hiding those potential landing spots. I'm not
>>even going to talk about weather, or combinations of weather and
>>terrain or weather and darkness.
>>
>>
>>
>I am sure you get it all in Alaska
>
>
>
>>I landed in a pretty rough spot once when my pampered factory reman
>>IO-360 blew up. The airplane was totaled but I walked away. I was
>>lucky. The same season a Bonanza landed nearby and everyone aboard was
>>killed. If you'd try to land there in an RV with a bubble canopy you'd
>>likely as not end up upside down and dead with a boulder where that
>>plastic canopy used to be. Shit happens. Motors break. Systems fail.
>>With some regularity.
>>If you were to descend tail feathers first under a BRS chute in the
>>above mentioned scenario you'd likely live to laugh about it.
>>
>>Frankly, I think we are mostly silly to fly around without helmets and
>>Nomex suits, but that's another discussion.
>>
>>In a sense, it may be that single engine powered flight is a overrated
>>concept. There can be a rather huge downside to the motor quting, and
>>motors do quit.
>>
>>B.
>>
>>
>>-prospective RV-9 builder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Probably be safer for you to just stay in bed all day?
>
>Jerry
>do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs HTML_TITLE_EMPTY |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Just like a motorcycle helmet, I dont want one, But I am not against
anyone who does.......
Phil in IL
linn walters wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>All this talk about BRS makes me wonder why everyone is, all of a
>sudden, becoming pessimists? Now don't get me wrong, I wear one when
>I'm doing ACRO, but only because I thought the FARs said so, and I've
>had friends with airplanes that came apart in the air. I've never known
>anyone who jumped while on a cross-country, flying straight and level.
>We've kicked this dead horse until it's not even recognizeable anymore.
>
>So, I have an idea. Let's just divide the folks on the left from those
>on the right (I wasn't speaking of your political orientation) and we'll
>arbitrarily call these two groups the 'don't want one' and 'want one'
>camps. If you're of the 'I don't care' group, don't worry ...... there
>will be a lot of switching groups down the road when it becomes time to
>make the decision. At least then maybe we can have some factual
>dialogue about the subject. As it is, there's no firm price, no
>installation instructions, no hardware made, no concrete specs .......
>nothing but a conceptual idea, and we don't really know much about that
>either. Let's face it, there are those among us that like the idean and
>it's appealing to them. To others, it's not. It matters not how much
>the cost, how much the weight ..... it doesn't matter. We have VFR only
>pilots building airplanes with full-blown panels that make the jet
>jockeys drool. So what. I'm sure not going to tell them it's a waste
>of money installing capabilities that take a college degree (in each
>item) to program and use. IT'S THEIR TOY!!!
>
>And, like was said before ...... with all the RV's out there (Thank you
>Van) there is a market. So, instead of beating the BRS into the ground,
>support the company in it's ideas (not necessarily the cash) because
>they just MIGHT come up with something else that you just gotta have.
>
>OK, the soapbox is available ..... if you want to flame me, change the
>subject line .... I updated my filter!
>
>Y'all have a great new years ..... 2004 should prove to be a very
>interesting year!!!
>Linn (RV-10 on the horizon)
>do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Flange Bushings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks@aol.com>
Neil;
I got prop flange bushings from an engine rebuild shop in Tulsa,Oklahoma. I talked
to one of the shop guys and got used bushings for my RV-4 engine for less
than half of the normal $28.00/each.
I can probably locate the phone number and name if someone else doesn't come up
with it.
Bob Olds RV-4
Charleston,Arkansas
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Blanton Fortson wrote:
>
> >Frankly, I think we are mostly silly to fly around without helmets and
> >Nomex suits, but that's another discussion.
> >
> >In a sense, it may be that single engine powered flight is a overrated
> >concept. There can be a rather huge downside to the motor quting, and
> >motors do quit.
> >
Golly, Mr. Blanton. You might want to consider giving up on the idea of
flying a RV, if you have that notion. If you're really that negative about
single engine flight, you might want to consider flying only multi-engine
airplanes and leave single engine flight to those of us who have more faith
in those little power plants up front. Of course, you could be just joking
to stir up the pot. :-)
Fortunately, many of us out here consider single engine flight a safe thing
to do. I feel a lot more safe flying my little RV than I do making the
drive to the airport. Those young whipper snappers out there driving on the
highways have no clues about safe driving and respect for the other drivers.
If I felt as you stated about single engine flight, I'd have to give up
flying. I'd probably have to give up driving on the highways, as well!
That's even more dangerous than flying. Whew!
Alas, I can barely afford to keep my RV; so, a twin is out of the question.
I'm sure many of us on this list fall into that category. I don't worry too
much about engine stoppages, though. I know some of the listers have had
engines to stop; but, I can honestly say that I've got about 2000 hours of
logged time without ever having an engine stop due to a mechanical failure.
I do have to admit that I've had some minor engine problems in the air; but,
the airplane always made it home so I could do the repairs. Therefor, I'm
not one who worries about the engine every time I take off. If I did, I'd
quit flying because I'm a timid pilot, at best. I even fly my RV VF at
night, when the need arises. Now, that's really pushing the limits, for
some; but, I have the confidence that my RV's engine is good to go and does.
I do stop at flying over the mountains at night, though. I have to set
limits somewhere. :-)
As for the BRS, I think it may be a good idea for some who want it.
Personally, I look at it as another item to remove payload from my airplane.
My RV is already short enough on payload; and, my wallet is not fat enough
to afford the BRS over somthing else I can use, like a good GPS/comm unit.
I don't want to aggravate my payload limit more than it is. I also don't
wear a chute because I'd never have the nerve to jump. Some wouldn't fly
their RVs without one. It's different strokes for different folks.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> Beware the difference between per person (what AVEMCO offers... limits
> anyone's bodily injury to $100,000) vs what all other companies offer (per
> passenger.... person's outside the plane who are injured aren't limited to
> $100,000).
>
> Also, beware that AVEMCO sublimits family members of yours to 25% of that
> sublimit.
As J.T. has stated in this replay, one must be careful how one buys
insurance. For me, it's the price that's usually the problem. It never
ceases to amaze me that insurance companies seem to recognize the long term
customers by increasing their premiums instead of giving them a break. One
has to shop around to get the best prices. I've been with an agent in WA
for 12+ years. Until the last couple of years, I'd gotten pretty good
quotes. Then, I saw two huge jumps. I warned them last year that my next
quote had better be pretty good if they didn't want to lose me. Well, I got
a quote from J.T. this year and am saving about $300 over my other agent's
bid. I'm switching. I have to use the same technique with my autos. It
doesn't pay to let them think you're a satisfied customer.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
You know, you guys are all missing the BIG PICTURE with all this BRS
BS.... The real issue is what primer do you use when installing it?
That was a joke.
Do not archive
Nomex zipped up tight
already stopped, dropped, and rolling.....
gm
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
You don't use primer. The skin is alclad coated, remember?
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (RV-10 Soon)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ballistic parachutes on RVs
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> You know, you guys are all missing the BIG PICTURE with all this BRS
> BS.... The real issue is what primer do you use when installing it?
>
> That was a joke.
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Nomex zipped up tight
>
>
> already stopped, dropped, and rolling.....
>
> gm
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Alternator Belt-Please Help |
--> RV-List message posted by: Emmanuelle Richard <frenchflyer21@yahoo.com>
Jim,
I had a similar problem - except the adjuster bracket was touching the cowling
(make sure you don't have that condition). So i trimmed the adjuster and used
a shorter belt. I went to Napa Auto Parts with the original belt and they found
me a similar one, shorter.
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE:Chutes for RV's |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>> - An experienced skydiver would most likely need to be out and clear of
the
>> aircraft at least 1,500' agl. This would be quite a stretch for most
pilots
>> and passengers, especially seeing that most people tend to stay with the
>> aircraft far too long.
>> - 100% useless at traffic pattern alt or less.
>>
In a previous life I used to fall out of airplanes with a certain amount of
regularity. As I recall, the TSO for an emergency rig dictated that it
open and decelerate it's load within 500 feet.
In at least some EU states, static lines are required for emergency rigs.
Therefore, the opening sequence starts w/in 25 feet of the airframe.
I've a very healthy (and admittedly lucky) friend who ended getting out of
a crippled Eagle at a couple of hundred feet. No where near patten
altitude.
Anyone flying YE flights beyond gliding distance from shore.... well...
leave that one to Darwin.
Pack jobs can add up. However, if one were to fly to the field where a
rigger operates, get their rigs repacked, strap them on, and take the
rigger for an acro ride/lesson, you might just get all your rigging
services for free. You may wonder how I know that....
YMMV
do not archive
gm
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net>
IMOH anyone wearing a parachute in an RV is not going to be able to exit the
plane as I don't think you can open the canopy or if you can,how are you
going to hold it open,stand up and exit the plane.My first airplane was a
Navion some 40 years ago and you were allowed to open the canopy about 8 or
10 inches,but the only way you could move it back was to pull a cable on the
floor that pulled the canopy rearward.The RV canopy is shaped somewhat the
same and I know it won't slide back if left unlatched.
Now if someone designed pins that you could pull on the front rollers and
push front of canopy up I'm sure it would depart in a hurry,probably with
the tail also. Just my 2 cents which won't buy you anything.
Ollie
6A-Slider
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ballistic parachutes on RVs
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
> > Blanton Fortson wrote:
> >
> > >Frankly, I think we are mostly silly to fly around without helmets and
> > >Nomex suits, but that's another discussion.
> > >
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy@velocitus.net>
I've resisted commenting on this this thread because both sides have
presented most of the information. However, I feel it necessary to comment
on a few issues.
First off, I want to commend Jeff for patiently and calmly pointing out his
side of the story if the face of some overzealous opposing viewpoints. It
never ceases to amaze me how some people whip out the flamethrower whenever
they disagree with an Email. There have been many excellent 'listers drive
away by this. Jeff apparently has thick enough skin to make it here on the
list. :-)
Secondly, I think BRS makes a great product. I made my living as an
ultralight instructor for 10 years, and my 2 seat trainer always had a BRS
unit on it. I had full confidence in the aircraft (Quicksilver Sprint II)
as a great design, and because I built/maintained it myself. However, being
responsible for students I always felt better that it was there.
On a "regular" (non-ultralight) aircraft, I don't feel the need as much. As
a CFI teaching in certified aircraft I feel the additional structure of the
aircraft eliminates the benefit of having the parachute on board. Factoring
in the weight and cost just makes it worse IMHO. I *do* however think it
would be a potential benefit for x/c at night - something I don't normally
do because of the additional risk.
That said, I can't imagine putting one in my RV. In addition to the loss of
some useful load, I assume the canister goes in the baggage compartment,
decreasing the volume and weight available to use for baggage.
I'm all for having the BRS as an option. I know that there are some that
want it, and some significant others that may well be convinced to start
flying because of it, both of which are good things.
To each there own; choice is good; caveat emptor; your mileage may vary;
don't run with scissors,
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID
RV6a 600+ hours
---
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Chutes on RV's |
FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
Once you deploy the BRS you have lost control over the situation. Unless
there had been a catastrophic structural failure I wouldn't use one, and I
fly in the Rocky Mountains..
John
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
Jim, when I say it's an "over-rated" concept I'm countering those who
might vote that it's "safe". It's not safe. Never has been, likely
never will be.
I'm not the least bit negative about single engine aviation. I love
it.
Single engine flying is not "safe". It's irresponsible to advertise
otherwise. Neither is motorcycling, ice-climbing, or sailing in the
stormy Gulf of Alaska in the wintertime. None of these activities is
"safe" though I'm comfortable with and enjoy doing all three. While I
do so, I am into risk management, and so is BRS. I applaud their
efforts, they have saved many lives.
My behavior is probably riskiest on a motorcycle. I often ride on the
edge. I do wear leathers, a back protector, and full helmet. (That
won't necessarily save my ass
:
)
I fly one of the "safest" single engine aircraft around. Nonetheless,
before I take an unsuspecting individual to general aviation in Alaska
I explain that this is not the safest activity in the world and I
explain what we do to mitigate the risk.
One of my favorite activities is undulating nap-of-the-earth flight
along ridgetops high in the Chugach. It's not for everyone, but I love
it. And I don't take the children.
Jerry writes:
>>Probably be safer for you to just stay in bed all day?<<
I'd have to agree with that, Jerry! Maybe day after tomorrow. Today
I'm busy packing for a Baja kayak trip!
Hey, when can we move past this BRS discussion and on to the helmet and
Nomex flight suit bit? ;
)
Kind Regards,
Blanton
On Dec 28, 2003, at 6:40 AM, Jim Sears wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
>> Blanton Fortson wrote:
>>
>>> Frankly, I think we are mostly silly to fly around without helmets
>>> and
>>> Nomex suits, but that's another discussion.
>>>
>>> In a sense, it may be that single engine powered flight is a
>>> overrated
>>> concept. There can be a rather huge downside to the motor quting,
>>> and
>>> motors do quit.
>>>
>
> Golly, Mr. Blanton. You might want to consider giving up on the idea
> of
> flying a RV, if you have that notion. If you're really that negative
> about
> single engine flight, you might want to consider flying only
> multi-engine
> airplanes and leave single engine flight to those of us who have more
> faith
> in those little power plants up front. Of course, you could be just
> joking
> to stir up the pot. :-)
>
> Fortunately, many of us out here consider single engine flight a safe
> thing
> to do. I feel a lot more safe flying my little RV than I do making the
> drive to the airport. Those young whipper snappers out there driving
> on the
> highways have no clues about safe driving and respect for the other
> drivers.
> If I felt as you stated about single engine flight, I'd have to give up
> flying. I'd probably have to give up driving on the highways, as well!
> That's even more dangerous than flying. Whew!
>
> Alas, I can barely afford to keep my RV; so, a twin is out of the
> question.
> I'm sure many of us on this list fall into that category. I don't
> worry too
> much about engine stoppages, though. I know some of the listers have
> had
> engines to stop; but, I can honestly say that I've got about 2000
> hours of
> logged time without ever having an engine stop due to a mechanical
> failure.
> I do have to admit that I've had some minor engine problems in the
> air; but,
> the airplane always made it home so I could do the repairs. Therefor,
> I'm
> not one who worries about the engine every time I take off. If I did,
> I'd
> quit flying because I'm a timid pilot, at best. I even fly my RV VF at
> night, when the need arises. Now, that's really pushing the limits,
> for
> some; but, I have the confidence that my RV's engine is good to go and
> does.
> I do stop at flying over the mountains at night, though. I have to set
> limits somewhere. :-)
>
> As for the BRS, I think it may be a good idea for some who want it.
> Personally, I look at it as another item to remove payload from my
> airplane.
> My RV is already short enough on payload; and, my wallet is not fat
> enough
> to afford the BRS over somthing else I can use, like a good GPS/comm
> unit.
> I don't want to aggravate my payload limit more than it is. I also
> don't
> wear a chute because I'd never have the nerve to jump. Some wouldn't
> fly
> their RVs without one. It's different strokes for different folks.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
> EAA Tech Counselor
> do not archive
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Hmm seem to remember the story about the -4 canopee coming off, ripped
off, when it came open in flight. Granted that one flips sideways, but
still nearly decapitated the pilot.
Then there was the 8 from Von, old timers remember Von, loved to watch
and read his progress here. everybody cheered when he won an award. I
believe he had quick release pins on the front canopee rollers. Pull the
pins and push the front of the canopee up into slip stream. nobody said
that the only means was to SLIDE the canopee back.
He certainly lost his canopee, it was found a considerable distance from
where the plane ended up. It certainly opened up enough for him to sadly
depart his airplane whilst still up in the air. How he got out we will
never know for sure.
So yeah, maybe, luckily them canopees only open up a little when all
goes well. There are many other failure modes to think of, deliberate or
accidental.
Gert
Ollie Washburn wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net>
>
> IMOH anyone wearing a parachute in an RV is not going to be able to exit the
> plane as I don't think you can open the canopy or if you can,how are you
> going to hold it open,stand up and exit the plane.My first airplane was a
> Navion some 40 years ago and you were allowed to open the canopy about 8 or
> 10 inches,but the only way you could move it back was to pull a cable on the
> floor that pulled the canopy rearward.The RV canopy is shaped somewhat the
> same and I know it won't slide back if left unlatched.
> Now if someone designed pins that you could pull on the front rollers and
> push front of canopy up I'm sure it would depart in a hurry,probably with
> the tail also. Just my 2 cents which won't buy you anything.
> Ollie
> 6A-Slider
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Ballistic parachutes on RVs
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>>
>>
>>>Blanton Fortson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Frankly, I think we are mostly silly to fly around without helmets and
>>>>Nomex suits, but that's another discussion.
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic Chutes |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Jim Nolan wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan@earthlink.net>
>
> Questions to ponder when building an RV
> 1. Do I need a backup Radio if I intend to fly IFR----No, because the one I
> have is the best on the market.
Red Herring - My RV will be a VFR-only airplane anyway. No backup radio
needed, I can always land Nordo or dig my handheld out of my flight bag
behind the seat.
> 2. Do I need a dedicated Carb heat muff-----No, because the Lycomings have
> the carb sitting on the hot oil pan and that will keep ice from forming.
I'm not sure why this is relevant to a discussion on BRS parachutes... But I
suppose it's a valid question.
> 3. Do I need a Heated pitot------No, because I'm not going to be dumb enough
> to fly in those conditions.
Red Herring - again, my RV will be VFR-only. And yes, "i'm not going to be
dumb enough to fly in those conditions" is good enough for me.
> 4. Do I need a backup electrical system-----No, because I haven't got a lot
> of extra power consuming crap like radios, heated pitots and gauges that a
> good pilot doesn't need.
Red Herring - If your electrical system dies in a VFR airplane, you don't
magically fall out of the sky. You start looking out the window. The plane
doesn't care that you can't talk to anyone, can't tell how good it's
running, or how fast it's flying. You're a pilot, what happened to your
basic pilotage skills? Or do we all need to spend a few years in an aeronca
champ (or other basic airplane) with no instruments so we can learn how to
*fly* an airplane without bells and whistles?
> 5. Do I need more training----No, because the training I have has made me
> proficient up to this point.
Red Herring - I won't go so far as to say that there are no pilots that
could do with a little more training. But this is true whether you have a
BRS or not.
> 6. Do I think I'd ever need a Ballistic Chute if it were available for my
> RV------ YOU ADD YOUR REASON
Nope, can't think of a compelling one.
> Have a happy Holiday everyone.
And to you! 8-)
> Jim Nolan
-RB4
Message 19
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| Subject: | Books/Videos for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Lyden, James D" <james.lyden@gd-ais.com>
One Time Listing
I have a number of books/videos that I purchased about 5 yrs ago that I
would now like to sell.
These include:
Books
Firewall Forward (Bingelis)
The Sportplane Builder (Bingelis)
Sportplane Construction Techniques (Bingelis)
Tony Bingelis on Engines (Bingelis)
A&P Mechanics Airframe Handbook
Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices (Aircraft Inspection and
Repair)
A&P Mechanics Powerplant Handbook
A&P Mechanics General Handbook
RV6 Study Plans
Videos (Orndorff unless noted)
RV Aircraft Systems (2 videos)
RV Finishing Kit (3 videos)
RV6/8 Pre-punched Empennage (2 Videos)
RV6 Quick-Build (3 videos)
Aircraft Sheet Metal Tools
RV Story (Vans)
Everything is like new and the videos are VHS and still play as well as when
new. I have no idea what these items would be worth and would be happy to
entertain any offers. I am in SE Michigan and would expect the buyer to
pick up or pay shipping. I will happily donate 10% of the sale price to
help support the list.
My email is james.lyden@gd-ais.com.
Thanks and happy holidays to all
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2654.45">
Books/Videos for Sale
One Time Listing
I have a number of books/videos that I purchased about 5 yrs ago that I would now
like to sell.
These include:
Books
Firewall Forward (Bingelis)
The Sportplane Builder (Bingelis)
Sportplane Construction Techniques (Bingelis)
Tony Bingelis on Engines (Bingelis)
AP Mechanics Airframe Handbook
Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices (Aircraft Inspection and Repair)
AP Mechanics Powerplant Handbook
AP Mechanics General Handbook
RV6 Study Plans
Videos (Orndorff unless noted)
RV Aircraft Systems (2 videos)
RV Finishing Kit (3 videos)
RV6/8 Pre-punched Empennage (2 Videos)
RV6 Quick-Build (3 videos)
Aircraft Sheet Metal Tools
RV Story (Vans)
Everything is like new and the videos are VHS and still play as well as when new.
I have no idea what these items would be worth and would be happy to entertain
any offers. I am in SE Michigan and would expect the buyer to pick up or pay
shipping. I will happily donate 10% of the sale price to help support the list.
My email is james.lyden@gd-ais.com.
Thanks and happy holidays to all
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs HTML_TITLE_EMPTY |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
>
> Just like a motorcycle helmet, I dont want one, But I am not against
> anyone who does.......
Another Red Herring. Flying an RV, it's pretty unlikely that someone who
"just didn't see you" would run you out of the sky. On a motorcycle, on the
other hand... Well, let's just say that i've already had one car run me off
the road, and two others try it.
I agree the choice should be there for Helmets as with BRS chutes. Just
don't make them law. You can't legislate common sense.
-RB4
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs HTML_TITLE_EMPTY |
--> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com
In a message dated 12/28/2003 2:42:38 PM Central Standard Time, rv7@b4.ca
writes:
I agree the choice should be there for Helmets as with BRS chutes. Just
don't make them law. You can't legislate common sense.
Unfortunately in some states it is law.
Lee
Anoka MN
RV-3 wing
Message 22
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| Subject: | More on chutes for RV's |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
All this discussion raises a few of questions:
What is the max speed at which the chute can be deployed? In Jerry's "178
seconds...", how fast would the "typical" VFR pilot be going before
deciding to deploy the system? Would he already be going too fast once he
decided he couldn't get out of the pickle he had gotten into? In Jerry's
example the plane exceeds redline--would the system and attaching structure
hold together at over 200 mph?
Mr. Peltier claims the system has saved the lives of 159 people. In his
book does a deployment constitute a save or just a deployment? Or has
someone evaluated each situation and determined that the people would have
died without the chute? Most aircraft accidents are not fatal. I suspect
that in many of the deployments, the pilot used it because he had it and
that in many cases he would have survived anyway.
Dick Scott
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: More on chutes for RV's |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
That "178 seconds" scenario was based on the pilot going into a
"graveyard spiral" after spatial disorientation. There are many other
ways to kill yourself. The mind is a terrible thing......
Boyd.
RV-Super 6
Venice, FL
do not archive
On Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 06:05 PM, Richard Scott wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
>
> All this discussion raises a few of questions:
>
> What is the max speed at which the chute can be deployed? In Jerry's
> "178
> seconds...", how fast would the "typical" VFR pilot be going before
> deciding to deploy the system? Would he already be going too fast
> once he
> decided he couldn't get out of the pickle he had gotten into? In
> Jerry's
> example the plane exceeds redline--would the system and attaching
> structure
> hold together at over 200 mph?
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kysh <vans-dragon@lapdragon.org>
As Bob U. was saying:
> >In a sense, it may be that single engine powered flight is a overrated
> >concept. There can be a rather huge downside to the motor quting, and
> >motors do quit.
> >
RV-20, twin engine aerobatic RV??
I would be order #001 :>
-Kysh
--
| 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying |
| CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr |
| 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang |
| Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ |
| KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham |
| Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ |
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
Kysh,
Several years ago (back in the stone age of kit building - there was only
the 3, 4 and 6 models then), on APRIL 1st, Vans submitted a design of the
FIRST RV-8. It was two RV-4s (4+4=8) which were connected together much
like two P-51s were put together to make the
F-82. (Aprils Fools for those who didn't get the date).
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kysh" <vans-dragon@lapdragon.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ballistic parachutes on RVs
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh <vans-dragon@lapdragon.org>
>
> As Bob U. was saying:
> > >In a sense, it may be that single engine powered flight is a overrated
> > >concept. There can be a rather huge downside to the motor quting, and
> > >motors do quit.
> > >
>
> RV-20, twin engine aerobatic RV??
>
> I would be order #001 :>
>
> -Kysh
> --
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Gary VanRemortel |
--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
The Builders White pages don't seem to be working. Does any one have Gary
V's Phone number? Thanks in advance.
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Ballistic parachutes on RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Did he have plans for an engine synchronizer?
do not archive
On Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 07:42 PM, Tom Gummo wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
>
> Kysh,
>
> Several years ago (back in the stone age of kit building - there was
> only
> the 3, 4 and 6 models then), on APRIL 1st, Vans submitted a design of
> the
> FIRST RV-8. It was two RV-4s (4+4=8) which were connected together
> much
> like two P-51s were put together to make the
> F-82. (Aprils Fools for those who didn't get the date).
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
> Harmon Rocket-II
Message 28
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| Subject: | The Night Before Christmas, RV Style |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Don,
I saw this and COMPLETELY missed the "thanks"! One of the local RV builders
mentioned it to us tonight.
On behalf of the "Carolina Crew", you and Barbara are surely most
welcomed!!!! I can still remember her smile when she got back from that ride
in Ken's 6. As mentioned, one day we will have to take the TWO of you up at
the same time ... and in close proximity. :-)
To all, if it is at all possible, it seems to make a really big difference
if you can get the spouse/significant other a ride with someone who has a
nice plane and a smooth touch on the stick. (Having some tunes to go along
with the ride doesn't hurt either :-) ).
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 9:21 AM
> To: rv-list-digest@matronics.com; rv8list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: The Night Before Christmas, RV Style
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
>
>
> Friends,
> My wife Barbara put the following yarn together...I guess this means that
> she is becoming one of us. Thanks go out to my Columbia SC friends (James
> Clark, Patty Gillies and Ken Harrill) for giving her the $70k ride that
> evidently has set the hook.
>
> T'was the night before Christmas, and all through the garage,
> More and more plane parts, now a new fuselage!
> The rivets were placed in their cabinets with care,
> We hoped that even more plane parts soon would appear.
> The young one was nestled, all snug in her bed,
> While visions of flying high danced in her head!
> And ma' with her crafts, and I with Van's book,
> Had just settled down, to dream and to look.
> When out in the garage, there arose such a clatter,
> I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter!
> Away to the garage, I flew through the air,
> Set off the alarm, and caused quite a scare!
> The light in the garage reflected on the wings of that plane,
> It brought tears to my eyes that I could not explain!
> When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
> But a Van's aircraft mechanic with all of my gear!
> That wonderful mechanic was no Old St. Nick,
> But promised that we would build that plane quick!
> The canopy, seats, avionics, propeller,
> He even brought Lycoming, I love that young fellow!
> He said not a word as he went to his task,
> Bucking and riveting, what more could I ask?
> With such quick, perfect rivets, would've taken me years,
> Let me know that I really had nothing to fear!
> And laying our tools aside, we arose,
> "It's time to take this thing up, I suppose!"
> We sprang to my plane, gave the prop it's first spin,
> Taxied into the cul de sac, then into the wind!
> And we loudly exclaimed as we flew out of sight,
> "'Tis a happy Christmas, indeed, this plane sure
> flies right!!"
>
> Do not archive
> Don Alexander
> RV-8 Fuselage under construction, waiting on a yet-to-be found
> rich uncle to pass away so that I can pop for an engine...
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Gary VanRemortel |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Louis,
If you mean the yeller pages, try this address for the yellerpages. Matt is
hosting it now. http://www.matronics.com/yellerpages/
Terry
--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
The Builders White pages don't seem to be working. Does any one have Gary
V's Phone number? Thanks in advance.
-
Louis I Willig
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