---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/08/04: 76 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger (Will & Lynda Allen) 2. 01:11 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger (Dan Checkoway) 3. 04:48 AM - Swap or Sell IO-360 200 HP (Ralph Koger) 4. 05:03 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" (Marcel Bourgon) 5. 05:38 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger (Wayne R. Couture) 6. 05:52 AM - USED MAC SERVO (Scott Brown) 7. 06:01 AM - Re: Prop indexing (Stucklen, Frederic IFC) 8. 06:03 AM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 9. 06:19 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 10. 06:22 AM - (no subject) (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 11. 06:22 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 12. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (Alex Peterson) 13. 06:54 AM - Re: (no subject) (Bill VonDane) 14. 07:02 AM - USED MAC SERVO (Scott Brown) 15. 07:09 AM - airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (RV_8 Pilot) 16. 07:11 AM - Re: Prop indexing How to ?? (P M Condon) 17. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 18. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing How to ?? (Scott Bilinski) 19. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (James E. Clark) 20. 07:30 AM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (P M Condon) 21. 07:35 AM - Re: Haynes (N90ATC@aol.com) 22. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (LarryRobertHelming) 23. 07:46 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger (Rick Galati) 24. 07:54 AM - Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Mike Robertson) 25. 07:56 AM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (Kevin Horton) 26. 08:04 AM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 27. 08:47 AM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 28. 08:48 AM - Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 29. 09:29 AM - ELT antenna mounting RV8A (glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com) 30. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (van Bladeren, Ron) 31. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (Roger Embree) 32. 09:52 AM - Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers) 33. 09:57 AM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (Kevin Horton) 34. 10:11 AM - Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (and 6A) (DWENSING@aol.com) 35. 10:17 AM - Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (and 6A) (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 36. 10:24 AM - Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A (Mitch Faatz) 37. 10:26 AM - Fuel selector was airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (Michael McGee) 38. 10:39 AM - Flap Motor updated info (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 39. 10:46 AM - Re: Aeroconversions carb (N13eer@aol.com) 40. 11:35 AM - Re: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A (James E. Clark) 41. 11:58 AM - RV filler caps leaking (Scott Bilinski) 42. 12:03 PM - Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine (kempthornes) 43. 12:12 PM - Re: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A (Richard Dudley) 44. 12:15 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (Ed Perry) 45. 12:25 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (Alex Peterson) 46. 12:38 PM - Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Mike Robertson) 47. 12:44 PM - Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (Mike Robertson) 48. 12:49 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (Cy Galley) 49. 01:06 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (Brian Denk) 50. 01:23 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (Scott Bilinski) 51. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Prop indexing How to ?? (Jim Jewell) 52. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Cy Galley) 53. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Bruce Gray) 54. 02:56 PM - Re: propeller indexing and engine smoothness (Randy Lervold) 55. 02:56 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (Randy Lervold) 56. 03:54 PM - Forseling Exhaust (J. R. Dial) 57. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Mike Robertson) 58. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (RV8ter@aol.com) 59. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Cy Galley) 60. 06:02 PM - AD compliance (smoothweasel@juno.com) 61. 06:04 PM - Re: CHT #4 - Additional comment (Charles Rowbotham) 62. 06:46 PM - Re: RV filler caps leaking (RV_8 Pilot) 63. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Prop indexing (JNice51355@aol.com) 64. 07:21 PM - Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Bruce Swayze) 65. 07:38 PM - RV-3 Alieron bracket (Leesafur@aol.com) 66. 07:51 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Aaron Villery) 67. 07:55 PM - Garage Sale (czechsix@juno.com) 68. 08:07 PM - Re: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? (Tommy Mead) 69. 08:27 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Ed Holyoke) 70. 08:59 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Rob Prior) 71. 09:09 PM - Re: RV-3 Aileron bracket (Cammie Patch) 72. 09:23 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Bobby Hester) 73. 09:37 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Ed Holyoke) 74. 09:46 PM - Re: RV-3 Alieron bracket (Jim Oke) 75. 10:39 PM - Re: RV-3 Aileron bracket (Dan Checkoway) 76. 11:06 PM - Re: Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas (j1j2h3@juno.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:58 AM PST US From: "Will & Lynda Allen" Subject: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1" and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears. Thanks, -Will Allen North Bend, Wa RV8 wings ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:09 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" If you're talking about the spacers that go between the tiedown ring mount and the spar, I used a fly cutter for that: http://www.rvproject.com/20020504.html (see the bottom of the page) Looking back on it I probably would rather have used a hole cutting saw instead. Generally speaking, my preference for hole cutting would be: - Greenlee knockout punch (good for relatively thin stock) - unibit (usually steps up to 1", no larger that I know of) - carbide hole saw/cutter (individual sizes) - fly cutter (universal adjustable hole cutter) The Greenlee punches are excellent but expensive. Spruce sells 'em at about $35 and up, if I recall. They make nice clean holes in any sort of sheet stock and are really easy to operate. Unibits are a must-have for an RV project in my opinion. I believe they only step up to 1" at the largest, though. Hole saws are ok, but I haven't really used them too often on the RV. The fly cutter is good if you need a hole of an arbitrary size. You can buy it at Home Depot, Spruce, wherever. Spruce sells replacement cutting blades. You pretty much have to use it in a drill press if you want to keep your fingers, and even then you've got to be really careful. This is my least favorite hole cutting method but I've had to use it a zillion times on this project. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will & Lynda Allen" Subject: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger > --> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" > > I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy > some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1" > and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a > web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem > find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears. > > > Thanks, > > > -Will Allen > > North Bend, Wa > > RV8 wings > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:09 AM PST US From: "Ralph Koger" Subject: RV-List: Swap or Sell IO-360 200 HP --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph Koger" I need a O-360 or 0-320 Lycoming to finish my RV-6A. Will trade or sell Lycoming IO-360 A1A angle valve 200 HP that was removed from a turbo Mooney. Logs show the engine had 1428.9 hours when it was factory overhauled to 0 time in 8/20/92. The new log book shows 532.21 hrs in 7/25/99. In 2000 I bought the engine firewall forward. Only one blade of the Hartzell prop was bent and engine did not rotate. I got bid of $3000.for repair of prop. The crankshaft was bent and replaced with yellow tagged standard size. All new rod bolts, gear bolts and drive pin. The engine is together, painted and ready to be installed as a tubro or as a fuel injected engine. The engine has a light weight starter, vac pump, newer small size alternator, fuel pump and the prop governor. I also have the complete exhaust system with the Rajay unit and the chrome prop spinner for the Mooney. This engine will not fit into my older style cowl and adds other problems. A fixed pitch prop is also needed. My fourth RV is finished except for the engine and instruments and it will also be for sale. I can send some web site pictures. Ralph Koger E-Mail: koger@fbx.com Web Site: www.cleavelandtool.com/kogercompany/ 1947 W 1st Extension St. Boone, IA 50036 Phone: 515-432-5714 RV-6A N16RK ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:09 AM PST US From: Marcel Bourgon Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: Marcel Bourgon Will & Lynda Allen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" > >I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy >some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1" >and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a >web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem >find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears. > > >Thanks, > > >-Will Allen > >North Bend, Wa > >RV8 wings > > > > Good morning from El Paso We tried those fly cutters and found them very dangerous. We used a greenlee punch. It is a two piece cutting tool used in the electric trades. You drill a center hole then run bolt through hole and screw on back of cutter and tighten up and nice neat hole. We used different sizes for the panel and where ever we needed a nice a clean hole. If you use the fly cutter watch yourself this bird can get away from you very easily. Marcel ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:15 AM PST US From: "Wayne R. Couture" Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" I have a set of electrical Knock-outs that I've used extensively throughout the airplane that will make holes up to 3" or more. There kind of pricey but you can find them at electrical supply stores or maybe you could borrow some. Wayne do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will & Lynda Allen" Subject: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger > --> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" > > I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy > some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1" > and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a > web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem > find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears. > > > Thanks, > > > -Will Allen > > North Bend, Wa > > RV8 wings > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:44 AM PST US From: "Scott Brown" Subject: RV-List: USED MAC SERVO --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Brown" Does anyone have a used MAC servo that they would be willing to part with? Please respond offline to scottbrown@precisionjet.com. Thanks! Scott ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:47 AM PST US From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" John, I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from Ct) over the Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it such that the compression (#1 TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the front), and changed it to the 9 o'clock position. I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside the cockpit) were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having any instrumentation to accurately quantify vibration levels, but based my estimations on observed vibrations in the compass which is mounted on the brow screen....) I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 135+ Hrs since Aug 03! --> RV-List message posted by: John Decuir Did anyone who indexed thier prop per skyranch manual, to reduce vibration, check with Ly-con? just wondering if they still honor warranties and such in the unlikely event of an "event" that could be related to balance and indexing. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 07:25:03 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com I am not trying to start a debate all. All I want is the numbers and fuel flow for a given 0-320 or an 0-360. You see I am working an angle where I may possibly be given an engine and the engine will probably be the 0-320. I personally wanted to go with the 0-360 and if I receive the 0-320 will more than likely trade up to the 0-360. However I am pondering wether or not it is worth it. I want to know wether the guys with the 0-320's that are cruising at 140 to 155 knots are pulling 100% power or are pulled back to say 75% power to achieve those speeds. Along with that. What are you guys able to do at 100% power? I would also like to know the speed of an RV8A full power with an 0-320 and an 0-360 to compare the differences (VMAX). I am not looking for hard numbers here as I realize that all airframes are built different but am trying to decide if I want to go with the 0-320 or the 0-360. Thanks again and keep the comments coming Regards Glenn Williams do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 07:40:44 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com order from averys or from vans a fly cutter for that purpose Glenn do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:33 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: RV-List: (no subject) --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com Howdy 'List- A fellow builder is considering one of these carburetors from Aeroconversions for his O-320: http://www.aeroconversions.com/carb_index.html Anyone have any experience with these? Thanks! Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I have been nearly maimed a half a dozen times by a fly cutter mounted to a drill press. These things can be effective, in destroying parts that is. (both plane and people parts). I managed to survive but I have a very healthy respect for this seemingly harmless little device. Do not let your guard down with this thing. Its bite is painful. But it is the cheapest route. I destroyed my panel and several ribs before I found one of these cup/inner/outer die devices already mentioned that safely cuts through aluminum like butter. Our EAA chapter has it in its tool bin. Try and find one through a tech counselor or something. Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcel Bourgon Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: Marcel Bourgon Will & Lynda Allen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" > >I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy >some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1" >and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a >web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem >find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears. > > >Thanks, > > >-Will Allen > >North Bend, Wa > >RV8 wings > > > > Good morning from El Paso We tried those fly cutters and found them very dangerous. We used a greenlee punch. It is a two piece cutting tool used in the electric trades. You drill a center hole then run bolt through hole and screw on back of cutter and tighten up and nice neat hole. We used different sizes for the panel and where ever we needed a nice a clean hole. If you use the fly cutter watch yourself this bird can get away from you very easily. Marcel == == == == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:53 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > John, > > I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from > Ct) over the Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it > such that the compression (#1 > TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the > front), and changed it to the 9 o'clock position. > I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside > the cockpit) were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having > any instrumentation to accurately quantify vibration levels, > but based my estimations on observed vibrations in the > compass which is mounted on the brow screen....) > I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced..... Does anyone have a theory as to why this would be the case? (Paul Petersen, I know you will think about this one!) The engine can't sense where the prop is, so it would have to be airflow related. I'm skeptical about that, though. I could imagine on specific engine/props that some imbalance offset could be occuring when the prop is rotated relative to the crank, making for a smoother operation. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 425 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:10 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: (no subject) --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I have no experience with the carb, but I do with the owners of the company... This is just my opinion based on how I, and other people I know, have been treated by this company / these people, but I would never do business with them... -Bill VonDane EAA Tech Counselor RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: (no subject) > --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com > > Howdy 'List- > > A fellow builder is considering one of these carburetors from Aeroconversions > for his O-320: > > http://www.aeroconversions.com/carb_index.html > > Anyone have any experience with these? > > Thanks! > Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:19 AM PST US From: "Scott Brown" Subject: RV-List: USED MAC SERVO --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Brown" Does anyone have a used MAC servo that they would be willing to part with? Please respond offline to scottbrown@precisionjet.com Thanks! Scott ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:50 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" At sea level I get somewhere around 205 mph (+/- 5, depending on conditions) with my 160 hp (O-320) CS prop -8. As for flying at 100% power, I've only done it 3-4 times (other than taking off). Last years Sun 100 race was one time. Ran full throttle and leaned slightly for 100 miles at low (but legal!!) altitude. got 3rd in the 160 hp RV category my first race! Never know what might have happened if I'd have actually known where to turn!! ;) I *cruise* around with reduced power - 23-24" MAP, and 23-2400 rpm. I don't have my Lyc charts, but I'd imagine this is something near 75% power. Avg cruise speed is 170-mph (148 kts) regularly. Burns somewhere around 8-8.5 gph, leaned to some degree most all of the time except takeoff. I get power envy when flying heavy with buddies who have 180 or 200 hp RV types. But when I'm light, or with other 150, 160-hp machines, life is very good. After almost 4 years and 580 hrs, I'm stilll amazed at how easily I can just dance around all but the highest performance production planes. Got my -320 for very low $$. It's served me very well. A swap decision is yours to make, but I'm generally happy with my 160-hp. If (when) I upgrade, it won't be to a -360 - it'll be to a -540. But right now, I'd rather just keep flying than worry about new props, engine mounts, cowlings, etc, etc. Bryan Jones -8 www.LoneStarSquadron.com Houston, Texas >I am not trying to start a debate all. All I want is the numbers and fuel >flow for a given 0-320 or an 0-360. You see I am working an angle where I >may possibly be given an engine and the engine will probably be the 0-320. >I personally wanted to go with the 0-360 and if I receive the 0-320 will >more than likely trade up to the 0-360. However I am pondering wether or >not it is worth it. I want to know wether the guys with the 0-320's that >are cruising at 140 to 155 knots are pulling 100% power or are pulled back >to say 75% power to achieve those speeds. Along with that. What are you >guys able to do at 100% power? I would also like to know the speed of an >RV8A full power with an 0-320 and an 0-360 to compare the differences >(VMAX). I am not looking for hard numbers here as I realize that all >airframes are built different but am trying to decide if I want to go with >the 0-320 or the 0-360. > >Thanks again and keep the comments coming > >Regards > Glenn Williams Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:18 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing How to ?? --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon Has anyone collected all the data relative to prop indexing? I recall that you know your prop isn't indexed correctly by virture of where your prop stops when engine is shutdown. The "2 o-clock 8 o-clock" position vrs the "10 o-clock 4 o-clock" or some such urban ledgend. Anyone got a printable list of how this voodoo can be checked out ?? Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest drive lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank flange. That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...?? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 08:35:53 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com Alex and all: re-indexing the prop for a smoother feel from vibration is as you suggested. Counterbalancing it from a heavy spot in the crank. I am not sure what Lycoming feels about this or what this might do to the engine paramaters. What feels good to us might not feel good to the engine. I would reccomend calling Lycoming and see what they say. I mean you have already re-indexed and the worse thing Lycoming is going to tell you is to put it back and give you an explanation as to the reson why. Who knows they may even pass the re-indexing along to other builders. I kinda think personally that when you reindex you are kind of in essence retiming the engine. (bad example I know) what I mean is you are freeing the engine up (kind of like advancing and retarding the timing) so if the prop leading edge is past the #1 cylinder after it is fired the prop in essence has more momentum to turn and will be less likely to transmit the vibration from the cylinder firing to the airframe. Just my 2 cents worth. Glenn do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:02 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing How to ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I am confused about all this. I though one lug was bigger than the others and the prop will only go on one way? At 10:15 AM 1/8/04 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon > >Has anyone collected all the data relative to prop indexing? I recall >that you know your prop isn't indexed correctly by virture of where your >prop stops when engine is shutdown. The "2 o-clock 8 o-clock" >position vrs the "10 o-clock 4 o-clock" or some such urban ledgend. >Anyone got a printable list of how this voodoo can be checked out ?? > >Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest drive >lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank flange. >That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the >longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...?? > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:54 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Fred, What engine/prop combination was this? James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stucklen, > Frederic IFC > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:01 AM > To: 'rv-list@matronics.com' > Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" > > > John, > > I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from Ct) over the > Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it such that the > compression (#1 > TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the front), and > changed it to the 9 o'clock position. > I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside the cockpit) > were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having any instrumentation to > accurately quantify vibration levels, but based my estimations on observed > vibrations in the compass which is mounted on the brow screen....) > I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced..... > > Fred Stucklen > RV-6A N926RV > 135+ Hrs since Aug 03! > > --> RV-List message posted by: John Decuir > Did anyone who indexed thier prop per skyranch manual, to reduce > vibration, > check with Ly-con? just wondering if they still honor warranties > and such in > the unlikely event of an "event" that could be related to balance and > indexing. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:42 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon Another way to look at this is the $6000 thousand dollar prop and $1000 dollar governer and 30 or so lbs. of weight yield a "FREE" 400+ hours of flight (fuel) and 30 lbs more weight carying ability every time you fly if you use a wood or f/p sensenich prop. (( 7000 dollars / 2.15 $/gal) / 8 gal/hr. burn rate))= 400+ gallons of fuel Engine condition, guage accuracy, flying abilities, drag & rigging ...there are a lot of variables to consider when making fuel burn comparisons like this. Heck, the Bendix F/I is a great fuel injector and it too can yield some fuel savings and flight leg extention, but there is a $$ priemum in unit purchase and overhaul and hi pressure pumps to get you that fuel savings. A Carb. and a Vans electric 40 dollar fuel pump may fit you just fine and the $ savings over the Bendix/Airflow option will buy about 250 hours of flight fuel. Lots of way to look at options. Dollar cost and being realistic on your flight "mission" and need is just one way. Cheers... From: Genev E Reed --> RV-List message posted by: Genev E Reed Glenn: I have a 7A with 0360 and C/S Hartzell. We flew from Wichita Ks to Las Cruses. One RV8A with 0360 wood prop. One RV6 with 0320 wood prop. One RV6A with a detuned 0360 and C/S prop. With my 0360 Superior and hartzell C/S prop I had the least fuel burn of all going and coming. Doyle Reed RV7A ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:56 AM PST US From: N90ATC@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Haynes --> RV-List message posted by: N90ATC@aol.com If you wish to help Al Hayne's daughter , please visit friendsforlaurie.com. And for more information, visit Transplants.org. You can contribute, tax deductible, through the transplants.org site. Kevin N900KB (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:16 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Sure I got a theory. I notice that anytime I wash and wax my car, or vac the insides, that it runs and rides much smoother next time I drive it. My theory is the vehicle appreciates the attention and responds in a kindly manner. Honestly, I been following this thread and have been wondering what physics are at play here to induce those who make the change respond there is less vibration/more smoothness. I think I'd be much more on board for doing it myself if someone would measure the vibration before and after rather than make statements like, "It was much smoother running." What type of device could be used to measure the vibrations to do such a test? Do not archive this trivial. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > John, > > > > I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from > > Ct) over the Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it > > such that the compression (#1 > > TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the > > front), and changed it to the 9 o'clock position. > > I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside > > the cockpit) were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having > > any instrumentation to accurately quantify vibration levels, > > but based my estimations on observed vibrations in the > > compass which is mounted on the brow screen....) > > I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced..... > > Does anyone have a theory as to why this would be the case? (Paul > Petersen, I know you will think about this one!) The engine can't sense > where the prop is, so it would have to be airflow related. I'm > skeptical about that, though. I could imagine on specific engine/props > that some imbalance offset could be occuring when the prop is rotated > relative to the crank, making for a smoother operation. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 425 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:27 AM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati There is no right or wrong tool choice here. In the end, we can have different preferences based upon personal experience. I bought a brand new and expensive instrument hole punch and hated it. The shear cut inherently left small nubs and required what seemed to me an unnecessary amount of filing and/or sanding to get a given instrument to fit perfectly. I sold it and ended up using my relatively inexpensive and widely available General 3/4"-8" circle (fly) cutter to cut out every instrument hole in the panel to perfection. After cutting out dozens of lightening holes throughout the airframe, I felt comfortable with the fly cutter. It produces high quality holes needing only minor deburring very fast. Sure, a fly cutter can be dangerous. But if proper precautions are taken, it need not be. A good drill press only gets you in the ball game and is a mandatory piece of equipment. Always rest the work on a piece of scrap plywood between it and the drill press table. Clamp the work down securely in at least two locations or better yet, as many locations as practical. Use a low RPM, 250 works for me, a bit of cutting oil, and don't force the feed rate. No injuries, no problems. Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing" --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:27 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" The call if the glass is too dark will be up to the person conducting the inspection. If it does not go as you like then you have the right to appeal that decision up the chain all the way to the administrator. But I can tell you that if the glass is darker than an F-15 or F-16 canopy you may very well have problems (just my opinion) Mike Robertson >From: RV8ter@aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:21:21 EST > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > >I got my tinted canopy samples from Todd's Canopies today. I REALLY like >the >darkest one and I can get it in 1/4 inch thickness to boot. I've been >looking >through them outside this evening and the darkest one is safe in my opinion >but it's definatley dark. How can I tell if there will be any issues WRT >night >flight restrictions? How is that call made and if it goes against me is >there >an appeal process? > >lucky > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:22 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com > > >I am not trying to start a debate all. All I want is the numbers and fuel >flow for a given 0-320 or an 0-360. You see I am working an angle where I >may possibly be given an engine and the engine will probably be the 0-320. >I personally wanted to go with the 0-360 and if I receive the 0-320 will >more than likely trade up to the 0-360. However I am pondering wether or >not it is worth it. I want to know wether the guys with the 0-320's that >are cruising at 140 to 155 knots are pulling 100% power or are pulled back >to say 75% power to achieve those speeds. Along with that. What are you >guys able to do at 100% power? I would also like to know the speed of an >RV8A full power with an 0-320 and an 0-360 to compare the differences >(VMAX). I am not looking for hard numbers here as I realize that all >airframes are built different but am trying to decide if I want to go with >the 0-320 or the 0-360. > >Thanks again and keep the comments coming > >Regards > Glenn Williams The perf data on Van's site should help answer some of your questions. Couple that with the knowledge that for small changes in power, if all other conditions are the same (weight, altitude, etc) the speed achieved will vary with the cube root of the power. So, for a 180 hp RV-8A, Van says the max speed (i.e. full power at sea level) is 211 mph (183 kt). For 160 hp he says 203 mph (176 kt), which is the exact same thing you would get from the cube root rule. For 150 hp I calculate 199 mph (173 kt). Based on the published Van's cruise numbers at gross weight at 8,000 ft, I would expect roughly: Engine 150 hp 160 hp 180 hp 75% power 189 mph (164 kt) 193 mph (168 kt) 201 mph (175 kt) 55% power 168 mph (146 kt) 171 mph (149 kt) 178 mph (155 kt) The difference between 75% and 55% speeds published by Van is a bit more than the cube root rule would suggest, and I can't figure out why that would be. But Van has a reputation for publishing realistic perf numbers so I don't doubt him. The fuel flow should vary with the power. There is no magic there. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 09:26:11 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com I am using the KISS philosophy on my airplane. I am setting it up just like a Cessna 152 as far as simplicity go and a maintenance standpoint. I want to fly when I am finished building. I do not want to continue to tinker away at some high dollar mods and such. So I will be going fixed pitch normal aspirated (carb) and day night VFR instrumentation. I do want to play C.D.'s in flight though. and I have a hard on for the MX-20. Glenn do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 10:08:48 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com Kevin I have read van's numbers as related to performance data. I realize that van's has a reputation for publishing good conservative numbers, and has used the CAFE foundation to prove their published data. I just wanted to know what builders are seeing out there in the "real" world. i.e. are the performance numbers better, same or worse. I am also determining what to use powerplant wise if the numbers builders are seeing are correlated to what I want to see when I am flying. Thanks Glenn Williams do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 10:10:14 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com It would be a safe bet to use the tinted canopy for daytime use only. I personally am using the clear canopy supplied from Van's and will use a hat or sunshade to block the sun Glenn do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:35 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: ELT antenna mounting RV8A From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com 01/08/2004 10:50:47 AM --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com Listers I have an Ameri- king ELT. It has voice over capability. However when hard mounted where is a good place to install the metal fixed antenna on the fuselage. If the canopy is open, the rear side of the canopy is very close to the tail, and if I mount the antenna behind the canopy I am concerned that it will strike the tail on the vertical stab. I have pondered mounting it inside the tail compartment of the fuselage but am thinking the signal will not get out. Also I have seen people mount theirs on the top side of the back seat. What is a good place? I need to mount the unit itself where I can get to it and install the collapsable antenna to be able to use the voice over capability if I am mobile. Need your help. Thanks Glenn do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:43 AM PST US From: "van Bladeren, Ron" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing Clearly there is something to this re-indexing process. Even Lycoming recognizes some impact on airframe vibrations with re-indexing (at least for the 0-360-C1G anyway). Check our Lyc SI 1452: http://www.aviataircraft.com/bulletins/hsb3.htm Ron. --> RV-List message posted by: "van Bladeren, Ron" -----Original Message----- From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto:lhelming@sigecom.net] Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Sure I got a theory. I notice that anytime I wash and wax my car, or vac the insides, that it runs and rides much smoother next time I drive it. My theory is the vehicle appreciates the attention and responds in a kindly manner. Honestly, I been following this thread and have been wondering what physics are at play here to induce those who make the change respond there is less vibration/more smoothness. I think I'd be much more on board for doing it myself if someone would measure the vibration before and after rather than make statements like, "It was much smoother running." What type of device could be used to measure the vibrations to do such a test? Do not archive this trivial. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > John, > > > > I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from > > Ct) over the Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it > > such that the compression (#1 > > TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the > > front), and changed it to the 9 o'clock position. > > I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside > > the cockpit) were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having > > any instrumentation to accurately quantify vibration levels, > > but based my estimations on observed vibrations in the > > compass which is mounted on the brow screen....) > > I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced..... > > Does anyone have a theory as to why this would be the case? (Paul > Petersen, I know you will think about this one!) The engine can't sense > where the prop is, so it would have to be airflow related. I'm > skeptical about that, though. I could imagine on specific engine/props > that some imbalance offset could be occuring when the prop is rotated > relative to the crank, making for a smoother operation. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 425 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:14 AM PST US From: Roger Embree Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: Roger Embree glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com > > >Alex and all: > re-indexing the prop for a smoother feel from >vibration is as you suggested. Counterbalancing it from a heavy spot in the >crank. I am not sure what Lycoming feels about this or what this might do >to the engine paramaters. What feels good to us might not feel good to the >engine. I would reccomend calling Lycoming and see what they say. I mean >you have already re-indexed and the worse thing Lycoming is going to tell >you is to put it back and give you an explanation as to the reson why. Who >knows they may even pass the re-indexing along to other builders. I kinda >think personally that when you reindex you are kind of in essence retiming >the engine. (bad example I know) what I mean is you are freeing the engine >up (kind of like advancing and retarding the timing) so if the prop leading >edge is past the #1 cylinder after it is fired the prop in essence has more >momentum to turn and will be less likely to transmit the vibration from the >cylinder firing to the airframe. > >Just my 2 cents worth. > >Glenn > I think my second call would be to lycoming. My first call would be to the manufacturer of your propeller. Then I would like to listen while they discuss it with each other. I like to exaggerate the size, shape, position and speed of things in my mind to get a better idea of what is going on. Imagine increasing the length of the prop until it is a very long rod. How does it react when suddenly moved in line with its axis versus 90 degrees to its axis. The power stroke (horizontal movement) takes place through many degrees of rotation adding to the complexity. Then there is the material, wood, metal or composite. Differing dampening properties and modulus of elasticity for each. Things might well be smoother in the cockpit but it might also be like driving faster over railway tracks. You don't feel it as much but all your wheels get bent and your shocks break. RE ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:58 AM PST US From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" Subject: Re: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" Lowes and Sears carry the item you need. They call it a circle cutter. Lowes carries General brand for about $10.00 and Sears has their own brand for around $20.00. The General is a better tool, but the Sears brand cuts a slightly larger hole at maximum. Be careful with these tools. They are dangerous if mishandled! Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will & Lynda Allen" Subject: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger > --> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" > > I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy > some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1" > and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a > web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem > find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears. > > > Thanks, > > > -Will Allen > > North Bend, Wa > > RV8 wings > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:52 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com > > >Kevin I have read van's numbers as related to performance data. I realize >that van's has a reputation for publishing good conservative numbers, and >has used the CAFE foundation to prove their published data. I just wanted >to know what builders are seeing out there in the "real" world. i.e. are >the performance numbers better, same or worse. I am also determining what >to use powerplant wise if the numbers builders are seeing are correlated to >what I want to see when I am flying. > >Thanks > Glenn Williams > There are a lot of variables to consider if you look at performance numbers that people give you. First, there is a wide variation in accuracy of airspeed systems. Some people do the work to determine the errors in their airspeeds, and others don't. You could easily have two RVs flying in close formation with one indicating a speed 10 kt faster than the other. Some people know how to use GPS groundspeeds to get an accurate TAS and some people only think they know how to do it. Some of the methods that people have cooked up may be off by quite a bit. And then there will be differences depending on the build quality of the aircraft, the condition of the engine and the type of prop (wood props are usually less efficient than metal props, as the blades have to be thicker). So, some aircraft will do a bit better than Van's numbers, and some will do worse. And there are aircraft that the builder thinks is doing better than Van's numbers, but he really has an error in his airspeed system, and the aircraft is really slower than Van's. This guy probably also notices that he always has a big headwind when he compares his airspeed to the GPS groundspeed. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:46 AM PST US From: DWENSING@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (and 6A) --> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com I have the same ELT mounting questions as Glenn but pertaining to a RV6A. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks Dale Ensing ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:48 AM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (and 6A) --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna. And if you live through a landing where the wings get ripped off, you can use the ELT as a handheld. If you keep the ELT in reach in the cockpit with its antenna. Jim Ayers ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:13 AM PST US From: "Mitch Faatz" Subject: RV-List: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" Hello all, For those of you with wings mounted, what is the distance between fuselage and the first rib? I see people are mounting fuel pumps and gascolators in there, but it looks like there isn't a wide enough space there. Can someone with a -6 or 6A with wings mounted (but with wing root fairings off) tell me how much gap there is? Measurements at the front (near the tank attach bracket) and right in front of the spar would be great. Thanks - Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Forever Auburn, CA ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:29 AM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: RV-List: Fuel selector was airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee Now Glenn, I trust you are NOT talking about using an ON-OFF fuel selector like a C-152. Not to be picky but some might think this is what you are doing, just want to clarify this for them. With the wing on the bottom we need the OFF-RIGHT-LEFT type of fuel selector. Mike (iced-in in Portland) Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode At 08:03 2004-01-08, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com > > >I am using the KISS philosophy on my airplane. I am setting it up just like >a Cessna 152 as far as simplicity go and a maintenance standpoint. I want >to fly when I am finished building. I do not want to continue to tinker >away at some high dollar mods and such. So I will be going fixed pitch >normal aspirated (carb) and day night VFR instrumentation. I do want to >play C.D.'s in flight though. and I have a hard on for the MX-20. > >Glenn > >do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:43 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Flap Motor updated info --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com List... One of the guys from Van's whose opinion I highly respect emailed and suggested that excess loads on flaps could cause motor failure. Excess loads could be caused by friction in the flaps themselves, so important that with motor disconnected the flaps should move freely, which ours do. He also mentioned that it is possible if flaps always extended at 100 mph that this might overload and cause arcing. We've been doing that per Mike Seager's training, but see no reason to continue, so we'll try 80. Anyone on the list see anything wrong with that? Jerry Cochran snowbound in Oregon ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:39 AM PST US From: N13eer@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroconversions carb --> RV-List message posted by: N13eer@aol.com Mark, There was a local long-EZ with a O-235 that tried to put one of these on. First he needed to get some extra parts that they don't talk about like a fuel pressure regulator. After getting it all hooked up he could not get to to run smooth and anytime the MP was above about 20" the throttle was very stiff. He ended up having his carb rebuilt and putting the Aeroconversion on a shelf since they would not take the thing back. On the other hand my hanager mate has one on his Jabiru in a Sonex and thinks it is great. Alan Kritzman Cedar Rapids,IA RV-8 In a message dated 1/8/2004 9:22:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, Fiveonepw@aol.com writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com > >Howdy 'List- > >A fellow builder is considering one of these carburetors from Aeroconversions >for his O-320: > >http://www.aeroconversions.com/carb_index.html > >Anyone have any experience with these? > >Thanks! >Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:20 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Mitch, I am not at the airport (actually home with the cold/flu) but there is enough room in there to mount either the Andair or the Vans gascolator. Our (flying) 6 has the Vans and the 6A I am building has the Andair. Also, there is enough space to allow removal (assuming right fittings of course). James p.s. The biggest problem we have had is a small leak from one of the fittings. A real pain as it is slow but fast enough to stain the bottom of plane after a few days. Of course this has nothing to do with the mounting location. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mitch Faatz > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:26 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" > > Hello all, > > For those of you with wings mounted, what is the distance between > fuselage and the first rib? I see people are mounting fuel pumps > and gascolators in there, but it looks like there isn't a wide > enough space there. Can someone with a -6 or 6A with wings > mounted (but with wing root fairings off) tell me how much gap > there is? Measurements at the front (near the tank attach > bracket) and right in front of the spar would be great. > > > Thanks - Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Forever Auburn, CA > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:38 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full tanks, one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:31 PM PST US From: kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes At 10:45 AM 1/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com >I just wanted >to know what builders are seeing out there in the "real" world. I'm not Kevin and he would probably answer more diplomatically but I would say that many real world builders will be seeing bad data collected under suboptimal experimental conditions. Flavor that with a large dose of what they hope to see. I are a engineer, well trained to do experiments and collect data and I did so very poorly during my test flights. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:01 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Dudley Hi Mitch, I did not remove the root fairing but I measured from the fuselage side to the centerline of the rivets holding the skin to the root rib. So, you can add about 5/16" (half the flange width)to the measurements. At the spar, the space is about 2-1/2" and at the leading edge, 3-1/2". Keep in mind that you have the fuel line, tank vents and wires to the fuel sensors going between the tank and fuselage on both sides and on the left, you have the pitot line. Richard Dudley -6A completing the many final details Mitch Faatz wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" > > Hello all, > > For those of you with wings mounted, what is the distance between fuselage and the first rib? I see people are mounting fuel pumps and gascolators in there, but it looks like there isn't a wide enough space there. Can someone with a -6 or 6A with wings mounted (but with wing root fairings off) tell me how much gap there is? Measurements at the front (near the tank attach bracket) and right in front of the spar would be great. > > Thanks - Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Forever Auburn, CA > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:12 PM PST US From: "Ed Perry" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Perry" Hey Scott, I had the same thing.... I took the caps apart and smeared FUEL LUBE all around the shaft and the threads. That solved my problem. If you need some Fuel Lube let me know, I have it at the airport. Ed Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" Subject: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full tanks, > one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am > afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:39 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking > with full tanks, one worse than the other. Tried to tighten > the nut on the back but am afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? > > > Scott Bilinski Scott, take them apart and reassemble them, lubricating with Fuel Lube, aka as EZ Turn. BTW, the nut is acting as a lock nut, the bottom piece also threads onto the screw. Count turns as you remove it so that you can reassemble it with about the right adjustment. Get fuel lube into the threads and on the O-rings. If your caps have the plastic thrust part, chuck it and get a stainless steel one from Van's (this is the part against which the locking lever slides when it is actuated). They won't leak any more. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 425 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:55 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? LIMITED_TIME_ONLY --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > >The call if the glass is too dark will be up to the person conducting the >inspection. If it does not go as you like then you have the right to >appeal >that decision up the chain all the way to the administrator. But I can >tell >you that if the glass is darker than an F-15 or F-16 canopy you may very >well have problems (just my opinion) > >Mike Robertson > > > >From: RV8ter@aol.com > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > >To: Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:21:21 EST > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > > > > >I got my tinted canopy samples from Todd's Canopies today. I REALLY like > >the > >darkest one and I can get it in 1/4 inch thickness to boot. I've been > >looking > >through them outside this evening and the darkest one is safe in my >opinion > >but it's definatley dark. How can I tell if there will be any issues WRT > >night > >flight restrictions? How is that call made and if it goes against me is > >there > >an appeal process? > > > >lucky > > > >do not archive > > > > > > >[message truncated] Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:55 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: ELT antenna mounting RV8A --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Glenn, On my -8A I installed the ELT on the hat rack where I could get to it, and I installed the external antenna horizontally to the aft bulkhead under the empenage cover. I replaced the antenna that came with the ELT with a shorter wire-wound rubber covered ELT antenna. After that I tested the output of the ELT antenna as I was concerned with the vertical stab and rudder covering the signal. I called a friend at a control tower about ten miles away and asked him if he could listen for the signal. As soon as I turned it on he could hear it well so that ended any doubts I had. Mike Robertson >From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: ELT antenna mounting RV8A >Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:27:43 -0600 01/08/2004 10:50:47 AM > >--> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com > >Listers I have an Ameri- king ELT. It has voice over capability. However >when hard mounted where is a good place to install the metal fixed antenna >on the fuselage. If the canopy is open, the rear side of the canopy is very >close to the tail, and if I mount the antenna behind the canopy I am >concerned that it will strike the tail on the vertical stab. I have >pondered mounting it inside the tail compartment of the fuselage but am >thinking the signal will not get out. Also I have seen people mount theirs >on the top side of the back seat. What is a good place? I need to mount the >unit itself where I can get to it and install the collapsable antenna to be >able to use the voice over capability if I am mobile. Need your help. > >Thanks > Glenn > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:08 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I believe that is a lock nut. Loosen the nut then spin the bottom plate to tighten. Then re-tighten the lock nut. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" Subject: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full tanks, > one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am > afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:58 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > >Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full tanks, >one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am >afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 305 Scott, I have one cap that seeps fuel when full, and the other one never does. It may have something to do with the filler necks too. There is a fine line between sealing, and going overboard and snapping the pin. Are you lubing the O-rings/cap parts with fuel lube? I goop them pretty good and it helps the whole assembly work with more torque on the nut than possible if left dry. O rings can also be less than perfect right from the get go. A local industrial seal and fitting store might have viton rings the right size to try out. Brian Denk Rv8 N94BD RV10 51 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:17 PM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski BTW, the nut is acting as a lock nut, the bottom piece >also threads onto the screw. Ahhhh, this explains a lot!!! Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:29 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing How to ?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" My questions in regard to the Prop re-indexing thread are: Would not the design stage of the props and for that matter engines include the proposed indexing of props as part of the design criteria? Have the prop manufacturers such as Hartzell, McCauley(sp), Sensinich(sp) etc. done any vibration testing with their products with the props re-indexed as suggested in earlier postings? It seems to me that re-indexing any prop on any Prop/ engine combination would likely have a drastic effect on the outcomes of any such vibration testing regimes. Weather that change could be good or bad I cannot say. NOTE! Less vibration felt and or otherwise sensed in the structure of an airframe without the aid of specialized equipment etc. does not by necessity indicate a reduction of the potentially damaging vibration modes that can lead to premature catastrophic failure of prop hubs, blades, and or engines. Predicting the nature of the effects good or bad due to prop re-indexing is way beyond my ability or the abilities of any homebuilder that I know of. I am not saying that this or that positive or negative outcome will arise out of re-indexing props, I am only indicating that many ghosts can hide only to be "busted" so to speak, with the use of test equipment and facilities that are well beyond the reach and budget of the average. homebuilder. I guess I am trying to ask if this re-indexing could be done with constant speed props, while at the same time trying to offer a cautionary note to not take this re-indexing thing at all lightly. Until being otherwise informed I for one do not believe re-indexing of any prop to be a necessarily safe option no matter how good it feels to mere mortal senses. Take care, Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "P M Condon" Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing How to ?? > --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon > > Has anyone collected all the data relative to prop indexing? I recall > that you know your prop isn't indexed correctly by virture of where your > prop stops when engine is shutdown. The "2 o-clock 8 o-clock" > position vrs the "10 o-clock 4 o-clock" or some such urban ledgend. > Anyone got a printable list of how this voodoo can be checked out ?? > > Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest drive > lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank flange. > That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the > longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...?? > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:13 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Mike is there a controlling FAR? If not and it is experimental, how can there be a turn down? Is there a catch-all... i.e.. I don't like it FAR? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > > > > >The call if the glass is too dark will be up to the person conducting the > >inspection. If it does not go as you like then you have the right to > >appeal > >that decision up the chain all the way to the administrator. But I can > >tell > >you that if the glass is darker than an F-15 or F-16 canopy you may very > >well have problems (just my opinion) > > > >Mike Robertson > > > > > > >From: RV8ter@aol.com > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > >To: Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com > > >Subject: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > > >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:21:21 EST > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > > > > > > > >I got my tinted canopy samples from Todd's Canopies today. I REALLY like > > >the > > >darkest one and I can get it in 1/4 inch thickness to boot. I've been > > >looking > > >through them outside this evening and the darkest one is safe in my > >opinion > > >but it's definatley dark. How can I tell if there will be any issues WRT > > >night > > >flight restrictions? How is that call made and if it goes against me is > > >there > > >an appeal process? > > > > > >lucky > > > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > >[message truncated] > > Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:00 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" The moral to this tale is, 'Get to know and love your local DAR early in the process. Involve him in the decision, it's cheaper than buying a second canopy. I would advise you to call him in now rather than wait until yopu've installed the tinted canopy. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cy Galley Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Mike is there a controlling FAR? If not and it is experimental, how can there be a turn down? Is there a catch-all... i.e.. I don't like it FAR? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > > > > >The call if the glass is too dark will be up to the person conducting the > >inspection. If it does not go as you like then you have the right to > >appeal > >that decision up the chain all the way to the administrator. But I can > >tell > >you that if the glass is darker than an F-15 or F-16 canopy you may very > >well have problems (just my opinion) > > > >Mike Robertson > > > > > > >From: RV8ter@aol.com > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > >To: Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com > > >Subject: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > > >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:21:21 EST > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > > > > > > > >I got my tinted canopy samples from Todd's Canopies today. I REALLY like > > >the > > >darkest one and I can get it in 1/4 inch thickness to boot. I've been > > >looking > > >through them outside this evening and the darkest one is safe in my > >opinion > > >but it's definatley dark. How can I tell if there will be any issues WRT > > >night > > >flight restrictions? How is that call made and if it goes against me is > > >there > > >an appeal process? > > > > > >lucky > > > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > >[message truncated] > > Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited > > == == == == ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:21 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: propeller indexing and engine smoothness --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" This is a very interesting concept but I'm wondering how you guys are doing this? The prop flange on my O-360 A1A has raised bosses on four of the six holes that are designed to mate up with recesses on the prop hub. The two that don't are 180 opposite each other. I've had a Hartzell and three different Whirl Wind propellers on there and there's only two possible positions to install it and they are 180 degrees apart so you don't have any way to "index" the prop as is being described. Please clue me in, and what do the engine building gurus such as Aero Sport Power or Lycon have to say about all this? BTW, here's some additional trivia for you: My Hartzell stopped at 10:00/4:00 as viewed from the front just like everyone elses. Then I installed the Whirl Wind 200C and later the 200RV and they both stopped at 9:00/3:00 (dead horizontal). I asked WW about this and guessed it had something to do with the mass of the propeller and he laughed. Seems McCauley, who makes the hub for these two models, just indexes it in a different place than Hartzell and he didn't know why. Hmm, maybe this is one reason why the WW props feel smoother? Inquiring minds want to know more. Randy Lervold RV-8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: Re: RV-List: propeller indexing and engine smoothness > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" > > I can second Bill's suggestion in the following post. We re-indexed a fixed > pitch Sensinich on a low compression O-360 powered RV8A today. The owner, > who had been complaining of vibration, said the change made a very > significant improvement. This after trying everything else we could think > of. The prop had been dynamically balanced previously and required only > required a few grams to balance to .04 IPS. We removed this small weight > along with the re-indexing and still saw the significant improvement. > > Dick Sipp > RV4 250DS RV10 110DV > > SportAV8R@aol.com > > > > Over the weekend I had to pull the cowl and prop to make repairs on a > broken aluminum alternator tension arm, and thought while I had the prop off > anyway I would try a suggestion I had read about in the Sky Ranch > Engineering Manual. It says that a flat four engine will run more smoothly > if the prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning it > is horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This > orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional for > Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping. > > > > Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was noticable > from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively) smoother at all > rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock position viewed from the > front, as opposed to the traditional 10 o'clock position. The compression > stroke is felt much lower down in the swing, making it indeed very awkward > and dangerous to hand prop as you have to bend way over to pull it through. > But since I never hand prop my plane, I consider it worth the trade off. I'm > going to take a wild guess and say the vibration level is about half what it > was before. I find myself now wondering if the dynamic balance I was > considering before would even be worth the cost and effort. Now, if only we > could solve the exhaust pulse floor vibration as easily ;-) > > > > -Bill Boyd > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:21 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > >Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full tanks, > >one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am > >afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? > > > > > >Scott Bilinski > >Eng dept 305 > > > Scott, > > I have one cap that seeps fuel when full, and the other one never does. It > may have something to do with the filler necks too. There is a fine line > between sealing, and going overboard and snapping the pin. Are you lubing > the O-rings/cap parts with fuel lube? I goop them pretty good and it helps > the whole assembly work with more torque on the nut than possible if left > dry. O rings can also be less than perfect right from the get go. A local > industrial seal and fitting store might have viton rings the right size to > try out. > > Brian Denk > Rv8 N94BD > RV10 51 Ditto Brian's experience, one that leaks regardless when full, one that doesn't. Testing various caps has confirmed that it has something to do with the female seat and nothing to do with the cap. It's probably slightly deformed and I have no idea how to correct it. Unfortunately I've taken to just living with it. Randy Lervold RV-8, 366 hrs www.rv-8.com ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:16 PM PST US From: "J. R. Dial" Subject: RV-List: Forseling Exhaust --> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" I bought my exhaust from John Forseling (Forseling Aviation) in Colorado and I need to call him with a question. I have lost his number and wondered if anybody on the list has it. You can answer off list. Thanks, DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:05 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" This is one of those "expert" areas that is not specifically addressed but could be denied/covered by FAR 23.773(a). The person inspecting the aircraft could state that the pilot would not have a "clear and undistorted view" for night operations per this reg. You and I both know that the regs don't directly apply but, face it, that is what all us FEDs go by when we render a decision because that is our background. Anyways, that is the reg that covers windows. Mike Robertson >From: "Cy Galley" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? >Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:21:51 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > >Mike is there a controlling FAR? If not and it is experimental, how can >there be a turn down? Is there a catch-all... i.e.. I don't like it FAR? > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike Robertson" >To: >Subject: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > > > > > > > >The call if the glass is too dark will be up to the person conducting >the > > >inspection. If it does not go as you like then you have the right to > > >appeal > > >that decision up the chain all the way to the administrator. But I can > > >tell > > >you that if the glass is darker than an F-15 or F-16 canopy you may >very > > >well have problems (just my opinion) > > > > > >Mike Robertson > > > > > > > > > >From: RV8ter@aol.com > > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > > >To: Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com > > > >Subject: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > > > >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:21:21 EST > > > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > >I got my tinted canopy samples from Todd's Canopies today. I REALLY >like > > > >the > > > >darkest one and I can get it in 1/4 inch thickness to boot. I've been > > > >looking > > > >through them outside this evening and the darkest one is safe in my > > >opinion > > > >but it's definatley dark. How can I tell if there will be any issues >WRT > > > >night > > > >flight restrictions? How is that call made and if it goes against me >is > > > >there > > > >an appeal process? > > > > > > > >lucky > > > > > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[message truncated] > > > > Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:55 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com In a message dated 1/8/2004 7:14:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrobert569@hotmail.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" This is one of those "expert" areas that is not specifically addressed but could be denied/covered by FAR 23.773(a). The person inspecting the aircraft could state that the pilot would not have a "clear and undistorted view" for night operations per this reg. You and I both know that the regs don't directly apply but, face it, that is what all us FEDs go by when we render a decision because that is our background. Anyways, that is the reg that covers windows. Mike Robertson Thanks Mike. That's useful. So was the tip from a different lister (sorry, forgot the name) to get with my probable DAR now. Don't know who that is yet but now would be a good time to find one! lucky do not archive ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:15 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I went and looked at FAR 23.773. I found part 3(b) most interesting... (b) Each pilot compartment must have a means to either remove or prevent the formation of fog or frost on an area of the internal portion of the windshield and side windows sufficiently large to provide the view specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section. Compliance must be shown under all expected external and internal ambient operating conditions, unless it can be shown that the windshield and side windows can be easily cleared by the pilot without interruption of moral pilot duties. This tells me that "IMMORAL" pilot duties can be interrupted to clear the windshield! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > > This is one of those "expert" areas that is not specifically addressed but > could be denied/covered by FAR 23.773(a). The person inspecting the > aircraft could state that the pilot would not have a "clear and undistorted > view" for night operations per this reg. > You and I both know that the regs don't directly apply but, face it, that is > what all us FEDs go by when we render a decision because that is our > background. Anyways, that is the reg that covers windows. > > Mike Robertson > > > >From: "Cy Galley" > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > >Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:21:51 -0600 > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > >Mike is there a controlling FAR? If not and it is experimental, how can > >there be a turn down? Is there a catch-all... i.e.. I don't like it FAR? > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mike Robertson" > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: RE: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" > > > > > > > > > > >The call if the glass is too dark will be up to the person conducting > >the > > > >inspection. If it does not go as you like then you have the right to > > > >appeal > > > >that decision up the chain all the way to the administrator. But I can > > > >tell > > > >you that if the glass is darker than an F-15 or F-16 canopy you may > >very > > > >well have problems (just my opinion) > > > > > > > >Mike Robertson > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: RV8ter@aol.com > > > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > > > >To: Mid-AtlRVwing@yahoogroups.com, rv-list@matronics.com > > > > >Subject: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? > > > > >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:21:21 EST > > > > > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I got my tinted canopy samples from Todd's Canopies today. I REALLY > >like > > > > >the > > > > >darkest one and I can get it in 1/4 inch thickness to boot. I've been > > > > >looking > > > > >through them outside this evening and the darkest one is safe in my > > > >opinion > > > > >but it's definatley dark. How can I tell if there will be any issues > >WRT > > > > >night > > > > >flight restrictions? How is that call made and if it goes against me > >is > > > > >there > > > > >an appeal process? > > > > > > > > > >lucky > > > > > > > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[message truncated] > > > > > > Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access limited > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:43 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: AD compliance From: smoothweasel@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com I was chatting with a friend the other day and he made the statement that EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are NOT exempt from AD compliances....... I did not get involved in a discussion that I am not sure of but my thinking is that there is no requirement for them to comply. Joel "Weasel" Graber -4 painted as of last weekend ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:56 PM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT #4 - Additional comment --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Mark, Fogot to mention that when we mounted the oil cooler behind Cyl # 4 on the left rear baffle we made a gasket from baffle seal to absorb vibration and sealed the air gaps with high temp Red RTV. THis was applied to flange was created when we cut the opening in the baffle wall. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Dan Checkoway" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: CHT #4 and oil cooler placement... >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:42:40 -0800 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Mark, > >Just playing devil's advocate here, but where would you derive the SCAT air >source for the oil cooler if you "remote" mount it? I figure the air's >gotta come from someplace, regardless of where the cooler itself is >located, >and it'll always be stealing some measure of cooling from the cylinders. > >Basically I'm theorizing that it won't make a difference to the cylinders >where the oil cooler is mounted. And if anything, if you mount it on the >baffle you can always build an air dam if you find your oil runs too >cool...which would in effect return some of that "stolen" air to the >cylinders. > >Anyway, this is all theory...so let the experts chime in with the real >answers. 8-) > >do not archive >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: RV-List: CHT #4 and oil cooler placement... > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com > > > > Guys, > > > > For those of you flying, do you find that the CHT on #4 (left aft > > cylinder) tends to be the hottest? I've got an -8A with O-360-A1A if > > that makes a difference, but I'd assume it's the same trend for any > > Lycoming installation.... > > > > My reason for asking is that I'm pondering the placement of my oil > > cooler. I plan to hang it on the firewall or engine mount and feed it > > via a SCAT off the back baffle. In looking at the "normal" location of > > mounting the cooler on the left side just behind cylinder #4, it seems >to > > me that it would exacerbate any cooling problems here because it would > > allow some air to escape through the cooler that would otherwise go down > > behind #4 and cool the critical exhaust port area. > > > > I know the cooler won't fit on the RH side aft baffle, but since I'm not > > mounting it on the baffle I could take the air off the RH side if it >made > > any difference in keeping the #4 CHT's more in line with the other jugs. > > > > Thanks as always, > > > > --Mark Navratil > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > > RV-8A N2D FWF stuff.... > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:30 PM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV filler caps leaking --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" couple of other thoughts... Chapstick works as a pretty good lubricant. Be sure to lube the oring and cam mechanism. If everythings lube'd well and moving freely, try the new oring first - it's probably the cheapest part to start replacing. Bryan Jones -8 www.LoneStarSquadron.com Houston, Texas > > >Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full >tanks, > > >one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am > > >afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > >Scott Bilinski > > >Eng dept 305 > > > > > > Scott, > > > > I have one cap that seeps fuel when full, and the other one never does. >It > > may have something to do with the filler necks too. There is a fine >line > > between sealing, and going overboard and snapping the pin. Are you >lubing > > the O-rings/cap parts with fuel lube? I goop them pretty good and it >helps > > the whole assembly work with more torque on the nut than possible if >left > > dry. O rings can also be less than perfect right from the get go. A >local > > industrial seal and fitting store might have viton rings the right size >to > > try out. > > > > Brian Denk > > Rv8 N94BD > > RV10 51 > > >Ditto Brian's experience, one that leaks regardless when full, one that >doesn't. Testing various caps has confirmed that it has something to do >with >the female seat and nothing to do with the cap. It's probably slightly >deformed and I have no idea how to correct it. Unfortunately I've taken to >just living with it. > >Randy Lervold >RV-8, 366 hrs >www.rv-8.com > Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:00 PM PST US From: JNice51355@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing --> RV-List message posted by: JNice51355@aol.com In a message dated 1/8/04 7:47:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, lhelming@sigecom.net writes: > What type of device could be used to measure the vibrations to do such a > test? > Very expensive ones. do not archive ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:51 PM PST US From: Bruce Swayze Subject: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze Fellow Listers, Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland, and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it? Would you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux. Thanks! Bruce Swayze --- ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:16 PM PST US From: Leesafur@aol.com Subject: RV-List: RV-3 Alieron bracket --> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts and drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures that I have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you let me know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt holes are not final drilled to 3/16 yet. http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html Lee Anoka MN RV-3 wing ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:49 PM PST US From: "Aaron Villery" Subject: Re: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Aaron Villery" I really love my little Sioux drill. She works great. I don't really know if it works $150 great but I really like it. Its also pretty comfortable for those long lines of holes. I assume Chicago Pneumatic is a Harbor Freight brand? Aaron Villery F1 Rocket SN138 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Swayze" Subject: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? > --> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze > > Fellow Listers, > > Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm > > I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the > "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland, > and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback > from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it? Would > you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it > would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux. > > Thanks! > > Bruce Swayze > > > --- > > ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:56 PM PST US aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Garage Sale From: czechsix@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com Guys, I have some stuff for sale. Everything came from Vans except the VSI that I bought at Oshkosh. All prices are subject to negotiation so if you think I'm a cheap tightwad (which is probably true), don't be upset or insulted, just make me a reasonable offer. Buyer pays shipping. Please respond OFF LIST if interested in anything! VA-149-360-PC, Throttle/Mixture Bracket for O-360 carb, *FREE* to anyone who is buying something else that I can ship it with. Vans price is $18, this one has been slightly modified (long story) but should still work just fine for the intended purpose.... IE F-385B and IE F-385C Stewart Warner Sending Units (left and right), these were carefully bent to fit my RV-8A tanks (which should fit any RV-7/8 wings, not sure about other models). I installed them and gooped some proseal around the mount/gasket to help seal them, then removed them when I put Princeton Capacitive probes in later. They won't win a beauty constest but work fine and will save you some installation time....they've never touched fuel but I verified them with an ohm meter for proper operation. Vans price is $46 (or $23 each), asking $20 for both of them together. CT 82F, RV-8/8A 2-lever Throttle/Mixt Quadrant, was briefly installed in my plane before I upgraded to CS prop. One of the aluminum plates on the outboard side of the quadrant is painted with grey Rustoleum which could be repainted, but it's mostly hidden when installed in the side console. Vans price $39, asking $25. EA CARB HEAT MUFF, new in the bag. Vans price $22.50, asking $17. FAB-360, Filtered Airbox for O-360, Marvel Carb; IO-320/360 (180 hp) Bendix Injection. New and unassembled. Vans price $120, asking $100. IF-UMA-16-311-241D, RV-7/8 Air Speed Indicator, 3 1/8" diameter, outer scale knots, inner mph. New in box. Vans price $143, asking $120. IF BG-3B Altimeter, 3 1/8" diameter. New in box. Vans price $198, asking $175. UMA #8-310-30 Vertical Speed Indicator, +/- 3000 fpm scale, 3 1/8" diameter. New in box. Pacific Coast Avionics price was $125, asking $100. Thanks for your interest and apologies for cluttering the List with this stuff... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D would be flying by now if I'd quit changing stuff! Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:04 PM PST US From: "Tommy Mead" Subject: Re: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:09:28 -0600 --> RV-List message posted by: "Tommy Mead" I feel that the canopy tint should be left up to the pilot. I have a problem with light myself. I have a terrible time, and must wear dark prescription glasses during the day and a #2 dark prescription lens during the night. his request for the dark tint might not be a cosmetic choice but a safety/comfort choice for him. just my .03 Tommy Mead ----- Original Message ----- From: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: any Airworthy Inspectors on the list? --> RV-List message posted by: glenn.williams@businessacft.bombardier.com It would be a safe bet to use the tinted canopy for daytime use only. I personally am using the clear canopy supplied from Van's and will use a hat or sunshade to block the sun Glenn do not archive ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:03 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Chicago Pneumatic is harbor freight's house brand. They are Chinese knockoffs of other manufacturer's tools. The quality varies. I've not handled this particular tool so I can't say for sure, but my guess is that it'll work and that you may not be happy with the chuck and/or trigger. You should check it's price against hf's website to see if you're really getting a substantial discount. I just searched it at 89.99 and it claims 2500 rpm. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4027 I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I usually end up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first time. It's not a good way to save money. Ed Holyoke 6 canopy skirts -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Swayze Subject: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze Fellow Listers, Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland, and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it? Would you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux. Thanks! Bruce Swayze --- == == == == ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:06 PM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior Ed Holyoke wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > Chicago Pneumatic is harbor freight's house brand. I think you'll find that *Central* Pneumatic is HF's house brand, not *Chicago* Pneumatic. If you look for "air drill" on HF's site, you'll find a lot of drills for $25-$50, which I think are the "cheaper" ones you're referring to. http://www.chicagopneumatic.com/ The picture of the Chicago drill on HF's website looks a lot like the Sioux equivalent, I think... I've only seen the Sioux one once though. -RB4 ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:35 PM PST US From: "Cammie Patch" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-3 Aileron bracket --> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" You'll need to cut the access hole all the way down to the flange, to provide a flat spot for the nut to go. --> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts and drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures that I have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you let me know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt holes are not final drilled to 3/16 yet. http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html Lee Anoka MN RV-3 wing ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:41 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester Bruce Swayze wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze > >Fellow Listers, > >Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm > >I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the >"normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland, >and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback >from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it? Would >you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it >would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux. > >Thanks! > >Bruce Swayze > > I do must of my drilling with my DeWalt cordless drill, but I did buy a $30 air drill from Harbor Freight and it works just fine also. If I was going to spend $150 on a drill it would be for a new cordless and I'd get the cheap air drill. -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-) ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:00 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Man, you're right - I was reading central when it said Chicago and I cut and pasted it instead of spelling it. Might be a better tool than I thought. Ed -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior Ed Holyoke wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > Chicago Pneumatic is harbor freight's house brand. I think you'll find that *Central* Pneumatic is HF's house brand, not *Chicago* Pneumatic. If you look for "air drill" on HF's site, you'll find a lot of drills for $25-$50, which I think are the "cheaper" ones you're referring to. http://www.chicagopneumatic.com/ The picture of the Chicago drill on HF's website looks a lot like the Sioux equivalent, I think... I've only seen the Sioux one once though. -RB4 == == == == ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:18 PM PST US From: Jim Oke Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-3 Alieron bracket --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke Experience with building RV-6 ailerons suggests you simply cut a notch or slot in the web of the -304 rib extending from the lightening hole down to the forward flange to provide room to install the AN365 nut. You could provide a scrap shim equal in thickness of the forward flange (probably .025) under the nut so that there is a level surface for it to bear on or simply cut a semi-circle out of the flange so the nut bears directly on the spar's aft face. Do not worry about weakening the rib in this area - after all, there will be a healthy sized piece of very strong 4130 steel bolted in place to act as a "doubler"! Jim Oke RV-6A, RV-3 Winnipeg, Man. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: RV-3 Alieron bracket > --> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com > > I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the > outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts and > drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures that I > have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you let me > know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt holes are not > final drilled to 3/16 yet. > > http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html > > > Lee > Anoka MN > RV-3 wing > > ________________________________ Message 75 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:29 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-3 Aileron bracket --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Why not install a nutplate back there instead of a nut? Less clearance required, no wrench hole required. That's what I did on my RV-7, which has pretty much the same setup. I know you already cut the wrench access hole and everything, but next time you wouldn't need to. Just my 2 cents, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cammie Patch" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-3 Aileron bracket > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" > > You'll need to cut the access hole all the way down to the flange, to > provide a flat spot for the nut to go. > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com > > I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the > outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts > and > drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures > that I > have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you > let me > know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt > holes are not > final drilled to 3/16 yet. > > http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html > > > Lee > Anoka MN > RV-3 wing > > ________________________________ Message 76 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas From: j1j2h3@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com Would you please explain how to jettison the canopy. I was not aware that this could be done. Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin, Tennessee) Do not archive From: Rob Prior (snip) an RV has ... a bubble canopy that can be jettisoned in flight (most likely true even in the event of an in-flight breakup).