Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:15 AM - RV-8 O540 (Lenleg@aol.com)
2. 10:41 AM - Cold weather - cabin heat (Alex Peterson)
3. 11:18 AM - Re: (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
4. 12:30 PM - Re: Electric seat heat (Norman Hunger)
5. 12:40 PM - Re: RV-8 O540 (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
6. 12:58 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (Shemp)
7. 12:58 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (Tim Bryan)
8. 01:06 PM - Re: Seat heat....the sequel (Norman Hunger)
9. 01:51 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (Alex Peterson)
10. 01:57 PM - Re: Seat heat....the finale ; (Blanton Fortson)
11. 02:06 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) (Blanton Fortson)
12. 02:23 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) (Boss)
13. 05:18 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (Nels Hanson)
14. 05:51 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) (Jeff Point)
15. 06:04 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) (RV8ter@aol.com)
16. 06:10 PM - PC-680 Charge Question (RV6AOKC@aol.com)
17. 06:35 PM - Re: PC-680 Charge Question (Jim Cimino)
18. 06:35 PM - RV-7A Tip Tanks for Sale (Terri Watson)
19. 06:44 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (long) (Curt Reimer)
20. 08:37 PM - Re: PC-680 Charge Question (Jim Jewell)
21. 08:39 PM - Re: PC-680 Charge Question (Doug Gray)
22. 09:04 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (long) (Shemp)
23. 10:21 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (long) (Curt Reimer)
24. 11:32 PM - Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) (Stein Bruch)
Message 1
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--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
List:
Anyone know how to reach some of the Indy guys that have put the 540 in the
8?
Thanks !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
196 hrs
Message 2
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| Subject: | Cold weather - cabin heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Just an FYI:
Yesterday, I flew my 6A with the OAT at -21C, or -4F. This was the
coldest OAT that I've experienced in the plane, and I'm quite pleased
with the cabin comfort. A couple weeks ago, I spent some time sealing
the various and numerous air leaks in the baggage area, and it payed
off. Although we had our jackets on, we could have removed them and
remained warm. I have two heat muffs, each feeding a separate heater on
the firewall. I leaned to peak EGT, which also makes a difference in
the heater output. Frost on the canopy was a bit of a problem until
about 5 minutes into the flight (there were two of us on board), but the
muffin fan defrosters kept the forward visibility ok until the whole
works cleared off. I could not have made the flight without those
defrosters, unless we would have been willing to keep the canopy cracked
open until takeoff (in which case we might have croaked from frostbite).
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
WaytafreekingoDAVE!!
Mark - do not archive
> I (finally) made the first flight of my RV-4 today.
> 12 years of building, 0.3 hours of flight time <g>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electric seat heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
Randy, perhaps you've never owned a car with heated seats. They are truly a
wonderful investment. My vote is for the carbon fiber pads as they are the
easiest to trim. Don't want no stinkin control box, just a high/low/off
switch and a hidden relay. I've got them in two of my cars and my RV6A. Then
again I do live in Canada...
Norman Hunger
> Guys, I'm just not understanding all this focus on heated seats. Seems to
me
> that they add cost and complexity when it's something you're only going to
> use occasionally. I think a MUCH better solution is to choose any of the
> products from Gerbings, namely their motorcycle products, and be done with
> it. That way the vest, jacket, gloves, or seatpad can be used for other
> things.
>
> I would submit that you or your passengers would be much warmer wearing a
> heated jacket liner ($199, http://www.gerbing.com/pages/clothing/jl.html)
> than merely sitting on a heated pad. If heated seats is what you want
> Gerbings also offers those, called "heated stadium cusion".
>
> Anyway, check www.gerbings.com.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, with 12v power socket in front and back for whatever electrical
> appliance you want.
>
>
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Len,
As of today, there are 6 flying, others underway.
These 3 will were very helpful.
larryboggs@systecservices.com
Jeff roberrts JRRV8@aol.com.
John Marshal. I don't have his e-mail, but here are 2 numbers. He does
the cowl's and engine mounts. John Marshall: 317-632-9468 and
317-862-2389
I spent a week on the phone with them, asking and writing every question
I could possibly think of.
They put me over the edge last week so I warn you. Thanks to them, my
tail and wings are enroute. Don't say I didn't tell you so. Oh and nice
job putting this on the list. This will cause me great pain over the
next few days. No doubt you have just stirred the pot. I am staying out
of it.
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lenleg@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 O540
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
List:
Anyone know how to reach some of the Indy guys that have put the 540 in
the
8?
Thanks !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
196 hrs
==
==
==
==
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Hey Alex, how did you seal the baggage compartment? Im planning on using
the bicycle intertube idea on the rails but still have large air gaps on
each side of the canopy behind the seats. Im freeeeezzzzing up there. I
have one heat muff and one firewall opening, on the wrong side of course.
Im thinking about feeding my current heat muff with an additional one, sort
of a pre-heater.
Oh yeah, what the heck are muffin fan defrosters?
Jeff Dowling
RV-6a/ 9 hours
Chicago/ Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Subject: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> Just an FYI:
>
> Yesterday, I flew my 6A with the OAT at -21C, or -4F. This was the
> coldest OAT that I've experienced in the plane, and I'm quite pleased
> with the cabin comfort. A couple weeks ago, I spent some time sealing
> the various and numerous air leaks in the baggage area, and it payed
> off. Although we had our jackets on, we could have removed them and
> remained warm. I have two heat muffs, each feeding a separate heater on
> the firewall. I leaned to peak EGT, which also makes a difference in
> the heater output. Frost on the canopy was a bit of a problem until
> about 5 minutes into the flight (there were two of us on board), but the
> muffin fan defrosters kept the forward visibility ok until the whole
> works cleared off. I could not have made the flight without those
> defrosters, unless we would have been willing to keep the canopy cracked
> open until takeoff (in which case we might have croaked from frostbite).
>
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
Hi Alex,
Where does one get these muffin heaters? Are they switched seperately? How
are they plumed, or do they just use air from behind the panel?
Thanks, I live in central oregon and although it isn't North Dakota weather
it still can get pretty cold. I installed two heat muffs as you did but no
defrost as of yet.
Thanks
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Just an FYI:
Yesterday, I flew my 6A with the OAT at -21C, or -4F. This was the
coldest OAT that I've experienced in the plane, and I'm quite pleased
with the cabin comfort. A couple weeks ago, I spent some time sealing
the various and numerous air leaks in the baggage area, and it payed
off. Although we had our jackets on, we could have removed them and
remained warm. I have two heat muffs, each feeding a separate heater on
the firewall. I leaned to peak EGT, which also makes a difference in
the heater output. Frost on the canopy was a bit of a problem until
about 5 minutes into the flight (there were two of us on board), but the
muffin fan defrosters kept the forward visibility ok until the whole
works cleared off. I could not have made the flight without those
defrosters, unless we would have been willing to keep the canopy cracked
open until takeoff (in which case we might have croaked from frostbite).
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Seat heat....the sequel |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
> Thanks to all who have pointed me to places to find seat heat.
>
> I have sent out requests for quotes as not many places actually
> displayed pricing for their seat heat, some went as far as to state that
> only their rep's are allowed to install and hence those are the only
> folks they will sell to. same held true for heating pads from Car
> dealerships.
In my experience, the car dealerships do not do this work. They farm it out.
Ask where they get their upholstery work done. Better yet, use the yellow
pages and start phoning around. Look up "Auto Upholstery". One more thing,
don't tell them you are building an airplane as many shops have a liability
fear. Tell them you are building a street rod. It should not take very long
to find some one in your area who will sell you a kit. Took me less than ten
minutes.
Norman Hunger
Message 9
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| Subject: | Cold weather - cabin heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> Hey Alex, how did you seal the baggage compartment? Im
> planning on using the bicycle intertube idea on the rails but
> still have large air gaps on each side of the canopy behind
> the seats. Im freeeeezzzzing up there. I have one heat muff
> and one firewall opening, on the wrong side of course. Im
> thinking about feeding my current heat muff with an
> additional one, sort of a pre-heater.
>
> Oh yeah, what the heck are muffin fan defrosters?
The muffin fans are used to bake muffins up on the glareshield. Well,
actually, they are just little 12 volt fans of the sort one might find
on the back of a computer. I got mine at Radio Shack. They just blow
air on the windscreen from behind the panel.
Regarding the baggage area, I just stuffed little pieces of foam rubber
into the triangular gaps on the bulkhead. I put a little appropriately
shaped piece of felt against the sides where the flap torque tubes exit.
Any gaps along the outer perimeter, where the skins attach to the
bulkhead, were filled with RTV (I know, my airplane is going to corrode
down to a little pile of white dust because of this).
Sealing around the (mine is a slider) canopy is a bit more work. I used
some silicone rubber weatherstripping along the back and sides of the
slider. The stuff I used is M-D Building Products, WS108 68676 (upc
code 43374 68676). Call around, I don't remember where I got it, but it
was something like Home Depot. It is sort of a tear drop shaped
extrusion with stick-em on one side. Silicone rubber will remain
resilient down to much colder than I will ever see. I applied it to the
fuse turtle deck skin from longeron to longeron over the top, and to the
inside of the sheet metal along the sides of the slider. That
installation is a little tough, because one has to sort of guess as to
just where to put it. Too high, and it will not contact the longeron,
too low and the canopy won't shut. The idea is for it to drop down
against that piece which is riveted to the longeron.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 10
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)
| Subject: | Re: Seat heat....the finale ; |
)
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
Heated seats can be a good thing.
The Gerbings stuff works well, too.
www.gerbings.com.
I was driving a Volvo Cross Country wagon once in the winter here in
Alaska when I noticed a wisp of smoke issuing forth from between my
legs. The smoke rapidly began to increase. I bailed out and watched the
car turn into a bonfire within two minutes. It seems as if the foam in
the leather upholstered Volvo seat cushions was not exactly
fire-retardant. Ouch. Car totaled. If that had happened in an airplane
I'd be dead.
12v Heated seats are a high amperage deal. Plenty of energy ignite
flameable materials if there is a short or other problem. Before I
installed a seat heater in an airplane I'd extensively torch test all
related materials (cushions, uphostery, etc.)
While I'm on the subject of fire, I'll share with you one of my
personal risk management strategies. For airplane use I wear only
natural fibers, particularly next to my skin. That means Duofold
(cotton/wool) longjohns or silk underwea, wool pants are best but
cotton jeans will do. NO poly next to skin. In an otherwise survivable
flash flash fire poly can melt to your skin causing a sort of burn
which you may not recover from.
B.
On Jan 25, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Norman Hunger wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger@sprint.ca>
>
>> Thanks to all who have pointed me to places to find seat heat.
>>
>> I have sent out requests for quotes as not many places actually
>> displayed pricing for their seat heat, some went as far as to state
>> that
>> only their rep's are allowed to install and hence those are the only
>> folks they will sell to. same held true for heating pads from Car
>> dealerships.
>
> In my experience, the car dealerships do not do this work. They farm
> it out.
> Ask where they get their upholstery work done. Better yet, use the
> yellow
> pages and start phoning around. Look up "Auto Upholstery". One more
> thing,
> don't tell them you are building an airplane as many shops have a
> liability
> fear. Tell them you are building a street rod. It should not take very
> long
> to find some one in your area who will sell you a kit. Took me less
> than ten
> minutes.
>
> Norman Hunger
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
Good muffin fan heater pictures here:
http://www.surplussales.com/Fans-Blowers/FansBlow-3.html
b.
http://homepage.mac.com/blanton
On Jan 25, 2004, at 11:57 AM, Tim Bryan wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
>
> Hi Alex,
> Where does one get these muffin heaters? Are they switched
> seperately? How
> are they plumed, or do they just use air from behind the panel?
>
> Thanks, I live in central oregon and although it isn't North Dakota
> weather
> it still can get pretty cold. I installed two heat muffs as you did
> but no
> defrost as of yet.
>
> Thanks
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:26:54
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
> Just an FYI:
>
> Yesterday, I flew my 6A with the OAT at -21C, or -4F. This was the
> coldest OAT that I've experienced in the plane, and I'm quite pleased
> with the cabin comfort. A couple weeks ago, I spent some time sealing
> the various and numerous air leaks in the baggage area, and it payed
> off. Although we had our jackets on, we could have removed them and
> remained warm. I have two heat muffs, each feeding a separate heater on
> the firewall. I leaned to peak EGT, which also makes a difference in
> the heater output. Frost on the canopy was a bit of a problem until
> about 5 minutes into the flight (there were two of us on board), but
> the
> muffin fan defrosters kept the forward visibility ok until the whole
> works cleared off. I could not have made the flight without those
> defrosters, unless we would have been willing to keep the canopy
> cracked
> open until takeoff (in which case we might have croaked from
> frostbite).
>
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
> .
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
Get em free out of an old computer case.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Blanton Fortson" <blanton@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
>
> Good muffin fan heater pictures here:
>
> http://www.surplussales.com/Fans-Blowers/FansBlow-3.html
>
>
> b.
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/blanton
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2004, at 11:57 AM, Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <Tim@bryantechnology.com>
> >
> > Hi Alex,
> > Where does one get these muffin heaters? Are they switched
> > seperately? How
> > are they plumed, or do they just use air from behind the panel?
> >
> > Thanks, I live in central oregon and although it isn't North Dakota
> > weather
> > it still can get pretty cold. I installed two heat muffs as you did
> > but no
> > defrost as of yet.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tim Bryan
> > RV-6 N616TB
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2004 11:26:54
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> >
> > Just an FYI:
> >
> > Yesterday, I flew my 6A with the OAT at -21C, or -4F. This was the
> > coldest OAT that I've experienced in the plane, and I'm quite pleased
> > with the cabin comfort. A couple weeks ago, I spent some time sealing
> > the various and numerous air leaks in the baggage area, and it payed
> > off. Although we had our jackets on, we could have removed them and
> > remained warm. I have two heat muffs, each feeding a separate heater on
> > the firewall. I leaned to peak EGT, which also makes a difference in
> > the heater output. Frost on the canopy was a bit of a problem until
> > about 5 minutes into the flight (there were two of us on board), but
> > the
> > muffin fan defrosters kept the forward visibility ok until the whole
> > works cleared off. I could not have made the flight without those
> > defrosters, unless we would have been willing to keep the canopy
> > cracked
> > open until takeoff (in which case we might have croaked from
> > frostbite).
> >
> >
> > Alex Peterson
> > Maple Grove, MN
> > RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
> > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Cold weather - cabin heat |
--> RV-List message posted by: Nels Hanson <pa201950@yahoo.com>
My two cents worth: I have flown for the last two
winters with one heat muff putting heat out from the
passenger side of the plane,hitting the passenger
around the chest area,while my feet froze. This fall I
had a second heat muff installed and put one source of
heat down by my feet and the other source down by the
passenger's feet. Problem solved. I figure I am now
good to go comfortably in normal clothes and tennis
shoes to about 5 below(F). Any colder than that will
necessitate me wearing winter clothes while flying. I
try and do a lot of winter flying and with the second
muff and redistribution I can now enjoy the flight
instead of shivering.
--- Alex Peterson <alexpeterson@usjet.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
> <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
>
>
> > Hey Alex, how did you seal the baggage
> compartment? Im
> > planning on using the bicycle intertube idea on
> the rails but
> > still have large air gaps on each side of the
> canopy behind
> > the seats. Im freeeeezzzzing up there. I have
> one heat muff
> > and one firewall opening, on the wrong side of
> course. Im
> > thinking about feeding my current heat muff with
> an
> > additional one, sort of a pre-heater.
> >
> > Oh yeah, what the heck are muffin fan defrosters?
>
> The muffin fans are used to bake muffins up on the
> glareshield. Well,
> actually, they are just little 12 volt fans of the
> sort one might find
> on the back of a computer. I got mine at Radio
> Shack. They just blow
> air on the windscreen from behind the panel.
>
> Regarding the baggage area, I just stuffed little
> pieces of foam rubber
> into the triangular gaps on the bulkhead. I put a
> little appropriately
> shaped piece of felt against the sides where the
> flap torque tubes exit.
> Any gaps along the outer perimeter, where the skins
> attach to the
> bulkhead, were filled with RTV (I know, my airplane
> is going to corrode
> down to a little pile of white dust because of
> this).
>
> Sealing around the (mine is a slider) canopy is a
> bit more work. I used
> some silicone rubber weatherstripping along the back
> and sides of the
> slider. The stuff I used is M-D Building Products,
> WS108 68676 (upc
> code 43374 68676). Call around, I don't remember
> where I got it, but it
> was something like Home Depot. It is sort of a tear
> drop shaped
> extrusion with stick-em on one side. Silicone
> rubber will remain
> resilient down to much colder than I will ever see.
> I applied it to the
> fuse turtle deck skin from longeron to longeron over
> the top, and to the
> inside of the sheet metal along the sides of the
> slider. That
> installation is a little tough, because one has to
> sort of guess as to
> just where to put it. Too high, and it will not
> contact the longeron,
> too low and the canopy won't shut. The idea is for
> it to drop down
> against that piece which is riveted to the longeron.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
The computer case ones are kind of thick and bulky. CPU cooling fans
are much slimmer (<1/2 inch). The Shack has a nice one for about $12,
p/n 273-240. I put two of 'em in the glareshield.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing up
Milwaukee WI
Boss wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
>
>Get em free out of an old computer case.
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
how'd ya wire em up?
Message 16
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| Subject: | PC-680 Charge Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com
I have a PC 680 that I keep a trickle charger on but it will only register
11.9 Volts at full charge. As I recall for 100% charge it should be about 12.4
volts, 11.9 indicating only about 60% or so...?? My RMI micromonitor will
register the 11.9 volts and give a LOBAT indication even after a full charge
(several days on the charger). My Comm II has a volt sensor and it registers 11.7
Volts. The green light on the charger goes on indicating full charge. The
charger is built for the PC680 type batteries and is the smaller (size of your
fist or so) trickle units. On the other hand I have had the battery on the
plane for about 3.5 years during the building process with it being drained
several time (leaving the master on...stupid me...). Any input you have would
be
great. Thanks....
Kurt Klewin, OKC, OK
Do Not Archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: PC-680 Charge Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
If the battery is below about 12.5 volts, it is discharged. These batteries
are designed to be good for about 10 years even when left on their charger.
My battery shows about 13.5 volts when I go to start the plane, it is also
on the charger all the time. It is possible that you damaged the battery by
leaving the master on multiple times. You can try to cycle the battery by
drawing it down to say 10 volts and then recharging it. Try that a few
times and see if it helps.
Jim
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV6AOKC@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: PC-680 Charge Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com
>
> I have a PC 680 that I keep a trickle charger on but it will only register
> 11.9 Volts at full charge. As I recall for 100% charge it should be about
12.4
> volts, 11.9 indicating only about 60% or so...?? My RMI micromonitor will
> register the 11.9 volts and give a LOBAT indication even after a full
charge
> (several days on the charger). My Comm II has a volt sensor and it
registers 11.7
> Volts. The green light on the charger goes on indicating full charge.
The
> charger is built for the PC680 type batteries and is the smaller (size of
your
> fist or so) trickle units. On the other hand I have had the battery on
the
> plane for about 3.5 years during the building process with it being
drained
> several time (leaving the master on...stupid me...). Any input you have
would be
> great. Thanks....
>
> Kurt Klewin, OKC, OK
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | RV-7A Tip Tanks for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terri Watson" <windsaloft@rmisp.com>
I have sold my RV-7A kit (sigh, due to an unexpected move), but I still have
a set of two RV-7A tip tanks with the cutout for flush set lights available.
They were purchased new in June 2002, pulled out of the box once to be
looked at, then put back away --- i.e. brand spanking new, no work done.
All paperwork, directions and original invoice have been received. Van's
has discontinued offering these items that add 8.5 gallons a side to an RV.
You cannot do aerobatics with fuel IN THE TANKS, but you can do them, with
empty tip tanks.
Extended Range Fuel Tip Tanks
8.5 US Gallons
each
Developed by Jon Johanson for His Round the World Flights
These fiberglass fuel tanks look like the stock RV tip, but add about
8.5 gallons each to fuel capacity. Of course, using them decreases the
baggage allowance. The lights themselves are not included. These fuel tanks
are only for tri-gear RV-7A. This is a pair, one left and one right.
The close-out price on Van's website for them is $2275 plus shipping.
New were a bit more. I will pass them on to you for a flat $2000, shipping
included to anywhere in the US. If Canada or elsewhere, we'll work
something out to share cost of shipping. The tanks are in Wyoming, my old
home, with my hangar partner who will ship them out. I am physically
located in Florida as of two weeks ago. Wow, it is warm here........... :=)
Please contact me via email, and I ask for patience --- between the
move and traveling a lot for work, it can take me a day or two to get back
to you. Thanks.
Terri Watson
Winds Aloft Aviation, Inc.
windsaloft@rmisp.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
Excellent winterizing tips from Alex Peterson.
I'll second everything that Alex suggests and will suggest a couple more:
1) Seal any gap between the wing attach/carrythough bulkhead and the forward
seat skins.
2) Seal any other holes where you can feel a cold draft coming in, anywhere
in the cockpit, such as the seat belt mounts where they penetrate the floor
skins.
3) Insulate the whole cockpit area with 1/8" black soundproofing foam, with
fabric over top. Bare aluminum just sucks the heat right out of you. This
does add a few pounds (5-10) compared to the painted grey metal interior
approach.
4) This is an option but it works for me: I ran my heat muffs in series into
a single Van's air mixing valve at the firewall, then into a fibreglass
plenum (also known as a piccolo tube) to distribute the heat across the
front of the cabin. I have two controls - one is the amount of air and the
other is temperature. This works well when you need intermediate levels of
heat, as you still get lots of airflow to distribute the heat evenly, rather
than just a small puff of superhot air that you get with the standard heat
valves when they are partially closed.
I was flying on Saturday here in Winnipeg in -34C (-29F) temps and was quite
comfortable, even when the sun went behind clouds. My feet were a bit warm
compared to my upper body so I think I will increase the overall airflow of
the system a bit by opening up the heat system inlet.
IMHO, stuffing the heat muffs with scrubber pads or springs isn't all that
useful, but getting the right volume of air flowing through the system is
critical. You want to have some method of adjusting the amount of air
entering the system, either a ground adjustable flap or even just a piece of
aluminum duct tape. I am also using the muffin fan defrosters and they work
as advertised to keep the windshield clear on the ground. In the air, the
canopy is totally frost free.
As a side note, engine handling at -34C was interesting. I had no problem
starting since the aircraft came out of a heated hangar, but it took about
10 minutes of idling before the oil temperature started to register. As I
was taxiing across our packed-snow/turf runway, I noticed that the engine
wanted to die if I pushed in the throttle too fast so I waited for 100F oil
temp before takeoff. In the air at 2500 ASL, the engine was near peak EGT
even with the mixture all the way to full rich, and didn't take kindly to
any aggressive attempts at leaning.
I cruised at 75%, more power than I would normally use on a joyride, but I
needed the heat! Temperatures at cruise were 275F CHT and 165F for the oil.
Inbound to the field, I started pulling off the power about 10 miles back,
reducing by 100 RPM ever 30 seconds or so. I have my EIS set to monitor CHT
cooling rate, and it told me we never exceeded the 50F per minute maximum
recommended by Lycoming. Another great EIS feature.
These RVs are astounding! Not even the die-hards with their ski-equipped
rag-wing aircraft were out flying that day, and here I am with my stubby
winged RV-6, taking off from a packed snow runway with my little 5" wheels
and cruising around in comfort.
Curt
RV-6 C-GACR
102 hours
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: PC-680 Charge Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Kurt,
The day before the first flight takes place, remove the ailing PC-680 from
the aircraft and replace it with a freshly charged brand new one.
What ever life is left in that poor old battery at that point should be
spent bringing life to a garden tractor, a lawn mower or what have you.
Read the instructions that come with in the box with the battery. continuous
charging with anything but the highest end battery monitoring systems can be
damaging.
$62.55 at http://www.batteries4everything.com is worth the knowledge that
full attention can be paid to the business of flying the first flight.
Have a good first flight,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV6AOKC@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: PC-680 Charge Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com
>
> I have a PC 680 that I keep a trickle charger on but it will only register
> 11.9 Volts at full charge. As I recall for 100% charge it should be about
12.4
> volts, 11.9 indicating only about 60% or so...?? My RMI micromonitor will
> register the 11.9 volts and give a LOBAT indication even after a full
charge
> (several days on the charger). My Comm II has a volt sensor and it
registers 11.7
> Volts. The green light on the charger goes on indicating full charge.
The
> charger is built for the PC680 type batteries and is the smaller (size of
your
> fist or so) trickle units. On the other hand I have had the battery on
the
> plane for about 3.5 years during the building process with it being
drained
> several time (leaving the master on...stupid me...). Any input you have
would be
> great. Thanks....
>
> Kurt Klewin, OKC, OK
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: PC-680 Charge Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
> I have a PC 680 that I keep a trickle charger on but it will only register
> 11.9 Volts at full charge. As I recall for 100% charge it should be about 12.4
> volts, 11.9 indicating only about 60% or so...?? My RMI micromonitor will
> register the 11.9 volts and give a LOBAT indication even after a full charge
> (several days on the charger). My Comm II has a volt sensor and it registers
11.7
> Volts. The green light on the charger goes on indicating full charge. The
> Do Not Archive
Kurt,
Just a thought but it looks suspiciously like you may have a diode in
series with the battery supply to the voltmeter. A diode drop is
typically about 0.6 volts. Try a multimeter across the battery
terminals to be certain.
Perhaps you have such a diode in an isolation network or you may have
the bus wired like Electric Bob suggests with the secondary bus isolated
with a diode.
Doug Gray
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Did you fabricate the plenum using a mold? I definitely want to move that
heat over to the drivers side.
How did you adjust the temp and flow? I guess the firewall door adjusts the
flow and the flap on the baffle t adjusts temp??
Thanks
Jeff Dowling
RV-6a/ 9 hours
Chicago/ Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat (long)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Excellent winterizing tips from Alex Peterson.
>
> I'll second everything that Alex suggests and will suggest a couple more:
>
> 1) Seal any gap between the wing attach/carrythough bulkhead and the
forward
> seat skins.
> 2) Seal any other holes where you can feel a cold draft coming in,
anywhere
> in the cockpit, such as the seat belt mounts where they penetrate the
floor
> skins.
> 3) Insulate the whole cockpit area with 1/8" black soundproofing foam,
with
> fabric over top. Bare aluminum just sucks the heat right out of you. This
> does add a few pounds (5-10) compared to the painted grey metal interior
> approach.
> 4) This is an option but it works for me: I ran my heat muffs in series
into
> a single Van's air mixing valve at the firewall, then into a fibreglass
> plenum (also known as a piccolo tube) to distribute the heat across the
> front of the cabin. I have two controls - one is the amount of air and the
> other is temperature. This works well when you need intermediate levels of
> heat, as you still get lots of airflow to distribute the heat evenly,
rather
> than just a small puff of superhot air that you get with the standard heat
> valves when they are partially closed.
>
> I was flying on Saturday here in Winnipeg in -34C (-29F) temps and was
quite
> comfortable, even when the sun went behind clouds. My feet were a bit warm
> compared to my upper body so I think I will increase the overall airflow
of
> the system a bit by opening up the heat system inlet.
>
> IMHO, stuffing the heat muffs with scrubber pads or springs isn't all that
> useful, but getting the right volume of air flowing through the system is
> critical. You want to have some method of adjusting the amount of air
> entering the system, either a ground adjustable flap or even just a piece
of
> aluminum duct tape. I am also using the muffin fan defrosters and they
work
> as advertised to keep the windshield clear on the ground. In the air, the
> canopy is totally frost free.
>
> As a side note, engine handling at -34C was interesting. I had no problem
> starting since the aircraft came out of a heated hangar, but it took about
> 10 minutes of idling before the oil temperature started to register. As I
> was taxiing across our packed-snow/turf runway, I noticed that the engine
> wanted to die if I pushed in the throttle too fast so I waited for 100F
oil
> temp before takeoff. In the air at 2500 ASL, the engine was near peak EGT
> even with the mixture all the way to full rich, and didn't take kindly to
> any aggressive attempts at leaning.
>
> I cruised at 75%, more power than I would normally use on a joyride, but I
> needed the heat! Temperatures at cruise were 275F CHT and 165F for the
oil.
> Inbound to the field, I started pulling off the power about 10 miles back,
> reducing by 100 RPM ever 30 seconds or so. I have my EIS set to monitor
CHT
> cooling rate, and it told me we never exceeded the 50F per minute maximum
> recommended by Lycoming. Another great EIS feature.
>
> These RVs are astounding! Not even the die-hards with their ski-equipped
> rag-wing aircraft were out flying that day, and here I am with my stubby
> winged RV-6, taking off from a packed snow runway with my little 5" wheels
> and cruising around in comfort.
>
> Curt
> RV-6 C-GACR
> 102 hours
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather - cabin heat (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
>
> Did you fabricate the plenum using a mold? I definitely want to move that
> heat over to the drivers side.
I used the "lost foam" process. Carve SM styrofoam to the shape you want,
then glass it over, let it harden and pour laquer thinner into the core to
dissolve the foam. Voila! This makes it really easy to make a complex shape
that flows through nooks and crannies, around rudder pedal structures, etc.
> How did you adjust the temp and flow? I guess the firewall door adjusts
the
> flow and the flap on the baffle t adjusts temp??
The flap on the baffle (which actually started out as just a piece of duct
tape), is ground settable only. It adjusts the total volume of air entering
the heating system. I am adjusting this to get the right mixture of heat vs
flow with the two cabin heating controls (described below) set to maximum.
This is a trial and error thing, and once I get it set just right I plan to
leave it that way permanently.
From the baffle, the inlet air goes through a 2" scat tube to a 2" Y
connector. One side of the Y feeds through the heat muffs to the "hot" side
of the Van's mixing valve, and the other side of the Y feeds the cold side
of the mixing valve. The valve has a hot/cold mixing flap which is
controlled from the cockpit. There is also an outlet valve, again controlled
from the cockpit, which controls the volume of air entering the cabin. In
operation the system works just like your basic car heater - one control for
the amount of air (like the fan switch in a car), and another control for
temperature.
I like the Van's air valve but there are a couple of issues to be aware of.
If you turn the temp valve to HOT and the turn the outlet valve to OFF, you
don't have any air flowing through the muffs so the exhaust pipe will likely
overheat. I have a placard warning against this. Turn temp to cold before
shutting off air. And someone else mentioned the possiblity of backflow
through the valve causing engine fumes to get into the cabin. Since I'm
taking my air from the high pressure side of the cooling system, I don't
think this is likely, and in any case my CO meter reads 0 PPM at all heat
settings so far.
Curt
RV-6 C-GACR
Curt
Message 24
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| Subject: | Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Guys....the "slimmer" CPU fans are a no-go. Unless you're happy with 2
teeny holes the size of golf balls, on the windshield, forget the CPU fans
and buy the thicker case fans. MUCH better. Been there, done that. Had
the CPU fans first, now have the thicker and larger case fans, about 4"
square. They do a pretty good job of clearing up the windshield on those
single digit days, of which many I've been flying lately. Yeah, they are
bigger, but if you plane on ever flying with the temperature below 20oF,
they are nice to have, and a must when in the single digits. Last week 2oF
on the ground, -14oF at 5K, and -26oF@8K (didn't spend much time there)!
Here's my winterization kit.....
I use the "Alex Peterson" method of slider and cockpit sealing, but I only
have one measly heat muff.
Next, two pairs of socks and insulated boots with nice wool gloves.
Then, oil cooler plate, and the expensive duct tape over the cowl inlets. I
block off about 1 1/2 tap widths of the intake on both sides. This allow me
to keep the CHT's above 300 and the oil above 180. Also, lean to peak EGT
to try and keep it close to 1300, helps at least keep some warm air moving.
Last but not least, and I really found this out yesterday...No Loops or
Cuban Eights.....the instant you pull the throttle back the heat dissapears
and it gets cold REAL fast! So, I guess the moral of the story is I'm stuck
with only rolls with the temperature is below 15.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Point
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cold weather - cabin heat (muffin fan pics)
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
The computer case ones are kind of thick and bulky. CPU cooling fans
are much slimmer (<1/2 inch). The Shack has a nice one for about $12,
p/n 273-240. I put two of 'em in the glareshield.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing up
Milwaukee WI
Boss wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Boss" <bossone@cox.net>
>
>Get em free out of an old computer case.
>
>
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