---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/01/04: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - Informal get-together (Dana Overall) 2. 05:41 AM - Landing lights (Jim Brown) 3. 07:38 AM - Re: Informal get-together (LarryRobertHelming) 4. 07:38 AM - Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Paul Boyce, Ph.D.) 5. 08:05 AM - Re: Landing lights (J. R. Dial) 6. 08:11 AM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Alex Peterson) 7. 08:34 AM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Dan Checkoway) 8. 09:03 AM - Re: Landing lights (Vanremog@aol.com) 9. 09:04 AM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 10. 09:21 AM - Re: (irrelevant...delete now) confession of an RV builder (Tim Bryan) 11. 09:31 AM - Re: Fluted Cutter (Dr. Leathers) 12. 09:35 AM - tools (Gene Polenske) 13. 09:42 AM - Re: Gretz pitot tubes (Tim Bryan) 14. 09:52 AM - Re: Landing lights (Paul Besing) 15. 10:00 AM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Mickey Coggins) 16. 10:23 AM - Re: tools (Jeff Orear) 17. 10:39 AM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (linn walters) 18. 12:18 PM - Re: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 19. 01:10 PM - Re: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder (Dan Checkoway) 20. 01:32 PM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 21. 01:54 PM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (lucky macy) 22. 02:21 PM - Re: Trio Report (Jerry Hansen) 23. 02:29 PM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Sam Buchanan) 24. 02:42 PM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Paul Boyce, Ph.D.) 25. 03:00 PM - Re: (irrelevant...delete now) confession of an RV builder (Dave Bristol) 26. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Jim Jewell) 27. 06:06 PM - 2 questions fuel sender float, ground wires (r miller) 28. 06:13 PM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Larry Bowen) 29. 06:16 PM - I'm scratching my head? (r miller) 30. 06:26 PM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (David Carter) 31. 06:50 PM - Re: 2 questions fuel sender float, ground wires (Jim Jewell) 32. 07:27 PM - Re:Fuel sender floats,ground wires (Bob n' Lu Olds) 33. 07:44 PM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (Paul Besing) 34. 08:03 PM - [ Chalkie Stobbart+ ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 35. 08:16 PM - [ Chalkie Stobbart ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 36. 08:20 PM - Re: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder (Cammie Patch) 37. 09:24 PM - Re: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder (linn walters) 38. 10:39 PM - Your Photos at (Blanton Fortson) 39. 11:30 PM - Re: Your Photos athttp://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 (GMC) 40. 11:55 PM - Re: Your Photos (Blanton Fortson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:04 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Informal get-together --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" OK, since it is the first of February Ill repost info about the little get together at my shop on Saturday, February 28th. I sent emails out to the various RVlists, the Ohio Valley RVators group, the local EAA, a composite airplane builders site and just a bunch of ol airplane friends. The Ohio Valley RVators are using this particular Saturday as an official UFO (Ultimate Fly Out). In addition, Tracy Crook has faxed me some info on his Rotary packages. Along this same line, I have spoke with Conversion Concepts http://www.conversionconcepts.com/rv-6-7.htm about attending. This is the company I am going with for my custom-built engine mount. Ill have my rotary 13B there for anyone to criticize or as an impetus to slap me around for making such a choice. For what its worth here is a pic of the state of my 7: http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg I drafted my oldest son and recruited another 17 year old to act as taxi drivers, or designated drivers, from the airport or to and from hotels if you choose to partake in the keg and hooters wings I will provide. They will haul you around for tips. My shop door leads into my office, which leads to a bathroom, which leads to the game room with pool table, fridge and big screen TV. Certainly if you want to drive, there are numerous hotels within 10 minutes of my house. If the weather is nice enough, Ill roll the airplane out to make more room in the shop. Ive got the From the ground up series on VHS and Team RVs Sun & Fun plus Great Northwest Adventure DVDs. I also have a professionally done production of a national gathering of the composite airplane when I was the national gathering host in 1999 & 2000. Ill have these running on a TV in the shop and on the HD big screen. In my shop I have everything from a pneumatic squeezer to pneumatic cleco remover (for sale to anyone attending, great for the wings), my battery powered Dynon, Garmin 430 and Grand Rapids EIS for any newbees to see. If any newbees want to play with some tools you dont have, feel free to grad a piece of scrap alum and work to your hearts content. There will also be fiberglass people there with a wealth of glass knowledge to share. Ive still got a bunch of carbon fiber laying around you can play with along with some West System. My address is 1036 Countryside Drive, Richmond, KY. It is about 10 minutes off I-75 and about 20 miles south of Lexington, KY. Mapquest will get you to within two housesthen look for the RV sitting in the driveway:-). BTW, if anyone is on the other Matronic list, feel free to forward this post to those lists. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Rotary 13B. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:09 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: RV-List: Landing lights --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Brown I am looking at installing landing light's in the wing tips on the RV-7A instead of in the wings. Can anyone comment on this position, either Pro or Con. Also what type of lights are you using? Jim Brown N112B ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:07 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Informal get-together --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" This would be perfect for UFO down and back same day if one of us had our RV done. I think working on mine this day will be the best use of time at the present. Are you planning on going? I will have just gotten back from two weeks of vacation with lots of pent up ambition to do more work on 3XG. Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Informal get-together > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > OK, since it is the first of February Ill repost info about the little get > together at my shop on Saturday, February 28th. > > I sent emails out to the various RVlists, the Ohio Valley RVators group, the > local EAA, a composite airplane builders site and just a bunch of ol > airplane friends. The Ohio Valley RVators are using this particular > Saturday as an official UFO (Ultimate Fly Out). > > In addition, Tracy Crook has faxed me some info on his Rotary packages. > Along this same line, I have spoke with Conversion Concepts > http://www.conversionconcepts.com/rv-6-7.htm about attending. This is the > company I am going with for my custom-built engine mount. Ill have my > rotary 13B there for anyone to criticize or as an impetus to slap me around > for making such a choice. > > For what its worth here is a pic of the state of my 7: > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > > I drafted my oldest son and recruited another 17 year old to act as taxi > drivers, or designated drivers, from the airport or to and from hotels if > you choose to partake in the keg and hooters wings I will provide. They > will haul you around for tips. My shop door leads into my office, which > leads to a bathroom, which leads to the game room with pool table, fridge > and big screen TV. Certainly if you want to drive, there are numerous > hotels within 10 minutes of my house. If the weather is nice enough, Ill > roll the airplane out to make more room in the shop. Ive got the From the > ground up series on VHS and Team RVs Sun & Fun plus Great Northwest > Adventure DVDs. I also have a professionally done production of a national > gathering of the composite airplane when I was the national gathering host > in 1999 & 2000. Ill have these running on a TV in the shop and on the HD > big screen. > > In my shop I have everything from a pneumatic squeezer to pneumatic cleco > remover (for sale to anyone attending, great for the wings), my battery > powered Dynon, Garmin 430 and Grand Rapids EIS for any newbees to see. If > any newbees want to play with some tools you dont have, feel free to grad a > piece of scrap alum and work to your hearts content. There will also be > fiberglass people there with a wealth of glass knowledge to share. Ive > still got a bunch of carbon fiber laying around you can play with along with > some West System. > > My address is 1036 Countryside Drive, Richmond, KY. It is about 10 minutes > off I-75 and about 20 miles south of Lexington, KY. Mapquest will get you > to within two housesthen look for the RV sitting in the driveway:-). > > BTW, if anyone is on the other Matronic list, feel free to forward this post > to those lists. > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > Rotary 13B. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:43 AM PST US From: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." Subject: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the external compass. However, what about this scenario: I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed in the panel, including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have the Dynon external compass since the DG on the Dynon and my SIRS brand magnetic compass read exactly the same. So far so good. However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to do a test. I hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery using alligator clips and a 2 lengths of unshielded wire, one for positive and one for negative. No other instrument is turned on. So the only electrons flowing around are strictly Dynon electrons. When I give the Dynon power, my handheld radio exhibits all sorts of noise across all channels. It's so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the power, the noise goes away. Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on my panel COM radio when I get to the point of completing it's installation? Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:54 AM PST US From: "J. R. Dial" Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing lights --> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" I am using Duckworh and they seem to get pretty hot to be in the fiberglass wingtips but I may be wrong. They do work fine mounted in the wings as they are designed. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Subject: RV-List: Landing lights --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Brown I am looking at installing landing light's in the wing tips on the RV-7A instead of in the wings. Can anyone comment on this position, either Pro or Con. Also what type of lights are you using? Jim Brown N112B == == == == ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:28 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the > external compass. However, what about this scenario: > > I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed > in the panel, including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have > the Dynon external compass since the DG on the Dynon and my > SIRS brand magnetic compass read exactly the same. So far so good. > > However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to > do a test. I hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery > using alligator clips and a 2 lengths of unshielded wire, one > for positive and one for negative. No other instrument is > turned on. So the only electrons flowing around are strictly > Dynon electrons. When I give the Dynon power, my handheld > radio exhibits all sorts of noise across all channels. It's > so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the power, > the noise goes away. > > Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on my > panel COM radio when I get to the point of completing it's > installation? Paul, an RVator here recently finished a 7A, and had radio noise caused by the display of the ACS2002 engine monitoring system. These fancy color displays seem to put out radio noise. He fixed his by putting a choke or some such thing on the proper lead inside the unit. He worked with the factory on his issue. I would suspect a similar thing is needed with your unit. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 434 hours and holding, wondering if flying weather will return... www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:50 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Here's a data point on the other side of the fence. I have a Dynon with the EDC-D10 external compass. I have NO EMI to speak of. Granted, this is not a complete test, since I'm (a) not running the engine and (b) not flying. But I figure if there's no noise on the ground running only on the battery, any noise that I experience in any other condition would have to be due to an independent, external factor. Anyway, so far so good -- I'm not experiencing the same problems that you guys are. Assume it comes down to how it's installed & wired? I reserve the right to complain later as I do more thorough testing... 8 ) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." Subject: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." > > I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the external > compass. However, what about this scenario: > > I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed in the panel, > including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have the Dynon external compass > since the DG on the Dynon and my SIRS brand magnetic compass read exactly > the same. So far so good. > > However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to do a test. I > hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery using alligator clips and a > 2 lengths of unshielded wire, one for positive and one for negative. No > other instrument is turned on. So the > only electrons flowing around are strictly Dynon electrons. When I give the > Dynon power, my handheld radio exhibits all sorts of noise across all > channels. It's so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the power, > the noise goes away. > > Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on my panel COM radio > when I get to the point of completing it's installation? > > Regards, > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:05 AM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing lights --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 2/1/2004 5:42:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, acrojim@cfl.rr.com writes: I am looking at installing landing light's in the wing tips on the RV-7A instead of in the wings. Can anyone comment on this position, either Pro or Con. Also what type of lights are you using? In my 6A I have the RMDs. They have the best coverage and are the most sanitary installation I've seen. I have Ducky Don's 100W halogen bulbs. GV (RV-6A N1GV flying 675 hrs) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Welcome to the party Paul. Although magnified by the external compass, the problem is in the Dynon unit itself. That noise is carried down the lines to the external compass, which is why most people see it more with the ext. compass. But the problem you describe is known and in fact coming from the D-10. A team of very smart electron snooper buddies of mine concluded it was the LCD screen. Dynon will recommend to you that the unit be powered from the buss NOT powering your avionics for the reasons you indicated. You should be able to get the noise down to a small amount with this method. But it will likely never be down to an immaterial level. You will likely always be able to hear the degradation in com quality with the Dynon powered. Mike Do not archive Many many hours trying to solve this exact issue. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Boyce, Ph.D. Subject: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the external compass. However, what about this scenario: I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed in the panel, including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have the Dynon external compass since the DG on the Dynon and my SIRS brand magnetic compass read exactly the same. So far so good. However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to do a test. I hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery using alligator clips and a 2 lengths of unshielded wire, one for positive and one for negative. No other instrument is turned on. So the only electrons flowing around are strictly Dynon electrons. When I give the Dynon power, my handheld radio exhibits all sorts of noise across all channels. It's so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the power, the noise goes away. Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on my panel COM radio when I get to the point of completing it's installation? Regards, Paul == == == == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:14 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: (irrelevant...delete now) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" Aaand, The fiberglass work on my -6 is still not done and all of it is ready to do. Your welcome to show up at my house and do as much as you want as it scares me to even think of it. :-) Tim Bryan RV-6 N616TB 13 years in the making finish kit still, running out of things to do to avoid the glass work -------Original Message------- From: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: (irrelevant...delete now) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Not weird, shows great intelligence and a appreciation of graceful well formed lines. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: (irrelevant...delete now) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Dan Checkoway wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >Is it so wrong that I like working with fiberglass?! > > > Yes Dan, it's actually kind of .... well, weird! Dave . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:13 AM PST US From: "Dr. Leathers" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fluted Cutter --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" Hi Karie, There is no kit for the Bearhawk Patrol. It is a plans built only design. I am working on jigs now. I have a 4' X 40' roll of .025 2024 T3 aluminum on order. You are welcome see what I have so far. Will you be home today? If so, can you email directions to your house again and name a time. I am free today and would love to come see what you have done so far! Thanks Doc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fluted Cutter > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > Thanks, I went ahead and picked one up while I was out today. I figured I > would end up using it again sooner or later anyway. How have you been? The > offer still stands for you to drop in anytime to take a look at the > progress. I don't remember but have you taken delivery of your kit yet? Let > me know when you do, I'd really like to see the kit. > > Karie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dr. Leathers" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fluted Cutter > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Leathers" > > > > Hi Karie, > > > > I think I have a 1.5" holesaw. Would that work? You are welcome to it. > > > > Doc > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Karie Daniel" > > To: > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fluted Cutter > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > > > I wasn't aware it's the same thing as a unibit. Too bad, it's an 1 1/2 > > inch > > > hole, that's a pricey unibit. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Karie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Cy Galley" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fluted Cutter > > > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > > > > > The trade name is Unibit! > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Karie Daniel" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: RV-List: Fluted Cutter > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > > > > > > > > > > I'm looking at the plans for installing the Wd-657 steps and it > > mentions > > > > using a fluted cutter to make the hole through the fuselage and > baggage > > > > floor ribs. Anyone know who sells one of these? I didn't see one at > > > Aircraft > > > > Spruce. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Karie Daniel > > > > > RV-7A > > > > > Sammamish, WA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:17 AM PST US From: "Gene Polenske" Subject: RV-List: tools --> RV-List message posted by: "Gene Polenske" I'm skinning my RV-8 wings and haven't started my tanks yet. I am getting ready to place an order to Avery tool and I have a question. Avery advertises a close quarter 8-32 screw dimpler kit for the fuel tank flanges. Is this something I need? I don't recall hearing anybody mentioning it. Just want to get everything at once, I hate waiting! Any other (must have/really glade I had) type tools I need to be ordering. Also I have about 450 3/32 clecos, going to order 300 more, is this enough? Thanks, Gene Wings ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:18 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Gretz pitot tubes --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" Tom, I have had a new one in the box for several years. Guess I better go check it's function. Let us know what you end up doing with yours as others (maybe me) could end up where you are. Tim Bryan RV-6 N616TB -------Original Message------- From: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Gretz pitot tubes --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" I post this message as a heads up regarding a warranty issue that I just ran into. A little over two years ago I purchased two heated pitot heads, AN5812, and brackets from Warren Gretz. I installed one of them last year on one plane with no problems. I just installed the other one on my current project and right out of the box the heater element was defective. I called Mr. Gretz and he stated that he no longer dealt with the company that supplies the units and that I should call the company. I called the company, Aero Instrument Co. of Cleveland Ohio, and they stated that their warranty is for one year from time of purchase and that they would not do anything for us and that I should call Mr. Gretz! I asked if they would check the unit to see if it was a manufacturing error and they refused to even look at it!!. As I understand the situation they are the only supplier of these heated pitot heads, the cost of which, in ACS is $300. I bring this to your attention so that you can check your parts shelf and test these units. I am most unhappy with the level of customer service of both Mr Gretz and the supplier of the pitot heads, Areo Instruments. I sincerely wish that there was an alternative and if someone knows of one I would appreciate a contact phone number. Tom Martin Fairlea Field . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:31 AM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing lights --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" I thought the RMD lights were fantastic. They look great, and put out alot of light. They were ALOT of work to install, though. The kit is very good quality, but it's just I really hate fiberglass. I like Bill VonDane's set up from what I have seen on the web, too. Never seen the kit in person, though. George O has an RMD video that he sells that made it much easier, IMHO. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing lights > --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > > In a message dated 2/1/2004 5:42:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, > acrojim@cfl.rr.com writes: > I am looking at installing landing light's in the wing tips on the > RV-7A instead of in the wings. Can anyone comment on this position, > either Pro or Con. Also what type of lights are you using? > In my 6A I have the RMDs. They have the best coverage and are the most > sanitary installation I've seen. I have Ducky Don's 100W halogen bulbs. > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV flying 675 hrs) > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:27 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >Dynon will recommend to you that the unit be powered from the buss NOT >powering your avionics for the reasons you indicated. You should be able >to get the noise down to a small amount with this method. But it will >likely never be down to an immaterial level. You will likely always be >able to hear the degradation in com quality with the Dynon powered. Hi Mike, What happens if you run it from the internal backup battery? Just out of curiosity, what brand of display do they use? Anyone had the courage to open up a Dynon to see if it would be easy to connect a different display? Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wings ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:57 AM PST US From: "Jeff Orear" Subject: Re: RV-List: tools --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" Hi Gene: I can't speak for the 8 wing, but for my 6A wing, that dimpler kit was a must, as some of the screw-holes for the tanks are very close to the spar doublers making it impossible to get a regular dimple set in there to dimple the spar flange. As to clecoes....you NEVER have enough! Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A panel Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Polenske" Subject: RV-List: tools > --> RV-List message posted by: "Gene Polenske" > > I'm skinning my RV-8 wings and haven't started my tanks yet. I am getting ready to place an order to Avery tool and I have a question. Avery advertises a close quarter 8-32 screw dimpler kit for the fuel tank flanges. Is this something I need? I don't recall hearing anybody mentioning it. Just want to get everything at once, I hate waiting! > > Any other (must have/really glade I had) type tools I need to be ordering. > > Also I have about 450 3/32 clecos, going to order 300 more, is this enough? > > Thanks, Gene > Wings > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:55 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Paul Boyce, Ph.D. wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." > >I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the external >compass. However, what about this scenario: > >I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed in the panel, >including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have the Dynon external compass >since the DG on the Dynon and my SIRS brand magnetic compass read exactly >the same. So far so good. > >However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to do a test. I >hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery using alligator clips and a >2 lengths of unshielded wire, one for positive and one for negative. No >other instrument is turned on. So the >only electrons flowing around are strictly Dynon electrons. When I give the >Dynon power, my handheld radio exhibits all sorts of noise across all >channels. It's so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the power, >the noise goes away. > >Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on my panel COM radio >when I get to the point of completing it's installation? > >Regards, > >Paul > I know that you don't want to hear this ....... but you probably will have the problem ..... maybe worse. The EMI may be radiating from the power wires, or radiating from the case. If But, you can do some things: Take your handheld and remove the antenna. Next walk away from the Dynon and see just how much radiation there is. Next wave the radio near the wires, near the Dynon ...... and see if the radiation is coming from the power leads. If the leads are a problem, (radiation strong everywhere, not just at the Dynon) try shielding the wire and adding a .1Ufd capacitor from the + lead to the shield, and tie the shield to the battery - post. Repeat the test with the handheld. I hope it got better. If so, then tie the shield to the Dynon case (I hope it's metal .... I haven't seen one ..... this is generic noise troubleshooting) and see if it improves. I'm out of suggestions! If Dynon has an EMI problem, then it behooves them to find a solution. Their customers will demand no less, and if the problem is not fixed then they'll go somewhere else. Let us know how it works out. Linn Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:22 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Ah, a man after my own soul. You must be a perfectionist like me. I dreaded working with that messy stuff just like you. Guess what, its not all that bad after you get used to it. Its like making mud pies. I had an expert come over and start on my windshield and canopy bow. I thought I finally found someone willing to do the thing for me. Well, after he put on a couple layers of fiberglass, and some micro balloons, he said that's all there is to it and left! Anyway, it took me about a month because you have to wait 24 hours before sanding those micro balloons, but the thing looks pretty good. When using micro balloons, just mix about 1/2 inch of slow epoxy for about a minute in a plastic cup and then stir in as much micro as it will take. It will fill the cup up with about 3 inches of real frothy stuff which will stay in place and be easy to sand the next day. I put it on with a plastic thing like you get at the auto parts stores. I did this for about probably 20 days. You will be an expert like me by that time! Well, I'm not an expert, but at least I'm not afraid of the stuff any more. I use West Systems 105 with 206 hardener (as recommended by Van's) from Aircraft Spruce, and use a triple beam balance to get the 5:1 ratio. I weigh the resin and multiply by 1.2 and move the scale to that number and then add hardener to the same plastic cup using a small bottle for the hardener. That's slower than how the experts do it, but it's more accurate and fits my personality better! Yogurt cups are perfect, but picnic cups work OK too. Don't use waxed cups. Just do it! Dan Hopper N766DH RV-7A will fly this spring for sure ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:23 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > I use West Systems 105 with 206 hardener (as recommended by Van's) from > Aircraft Spruce, and use a triple beam balance to get the 5:1 ratio. I weigh the > resin and multiply by 1.2 and move the scale to that number and then add I'm sure I'm probably stating the obvious, but Spruce sells a trivial ratio pump kit for West Systems. P/N: 01-00318 is only $10.20! http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/westepoxy.php Man, it's so easy to use and worth 5x the price! One pump of resin, one pump of hardener, mix it, done deal. Takes all the guesswork out of the equation. No caps to mess with -- just leave the pumps in the cans. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" You still get the noise on the internal battery, but only if the dynon is wired to the plane. The noise travels down wires from the Dynon to the plane, this includes the power wires, and those supplying the ext. compass. Sheilding the wires took about 30% of the noise out of mine. More for others. I know Sam had decent luck doing this. Many chokes were tried. All helped some. The test with the handheld is a good one and was tried. w/o an antennae, you can pick up my white noise 12' away, 40' with an antennae. Mike Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: Mickey Coggins [mailto:mick-matronics@rv8.ch] Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) >Dynon will recommend to you that the unit be powered from the buss NOT >powering your avionics for the reasons you indicated. You should be able >to get the noise down to a small amount with this method. But it will >likely never be down to an immaterial level. You will likely always be >able to hear the degradation in com quality with the Dynon powered. Hi Mike, What happens if you run it from the internal backup battery? Just out of curiosity, what brand of display do they use? Anyone had the courage to open up a Dynon to see if it would be easy to connect a different display? Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wings ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:52 PM PST US From: "lucky macy" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" oh man, not what i wanted to hear. hope dynon solves this problem sooner rather than later. anyone know if they are even acknowledging and work hard on it? anyway, what's the scoop from them on how R&D is going, if at all, on the larger display EFIS system? >From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: "Mickey Coggins" , >Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) >Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:30:12 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >You still get the noise on the internal battery, but only if the dynon >is wired to the plane. The noise travels down wires from the Dynon to >the plane, this includes the power wires, and those supplying the ext. >compass. >Sheilding the wires took about 30% of the noise out of mine. More for >others. I know Sam had decent luck doing this. > >Many chokes were tried. All helped some. > >The test with the handheld is a good one and was tried. >w/o an antennae, you can pick up my white noise 12' away, 40' with an >antennae. > >Mike >Do not archive. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mickey Coggins [mailto:mick-matronics@rv8.ch] >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) > > > >Dynon will recommend to you that the unit be powered from the buss NOT > >powering your avionics for the reasons you indicated. You should be >able > >to get the noise down to a small amount with this method. But it will > >likely never be down to an immaterial level. You will likely always be > >able to hear the degradation in com quality with the Dynon powered. > >Hi Mike, > >What happens if you run it from the internal backup battery? > >Just out of curiosity, what brand of display do they use? > >Anyone had the courage to open up a Dynon to see if it >would be easy to connect a different display? > >Mickey > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 Wings > > Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. http://wine.msn.com/ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:13 PM PST US From: "Jerry Hansen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Trio Report --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" You might like to know that the LCD version of the Trio EZ Pilot is now on the web site http://www.trioavionics.com and that Trio is now taking orders for this version with first delivery within two weeks. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Trio Report --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Sam, I got a chance to fly with Chuck, the grand bruhah engineer and chief duck at Trio the other day. He's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. It was a smooth as glass day so we played with it and came up with 4, 4, for the intercept gains and 7 for the pullin, as the most sensitive without hunting. We also found that the auto turn rate worked the best at various speeds. It now seems to stay within .01 nm or 60 ft of track and intercepts nicely. He also got a good look at the weakness of the display in direct sunlight, they are soon to offer, if not already, the LCD version I believe. I made a little 1 inch shade that sits just above the display below the upper switches. It has two tabs that catch the upper mount screws. He felt that as long as the servo arm lengths for the attachments to the control system were similar to mine then these settings would be fairly good for most of us. I believe I used the longest arm length the servo had to offer, and then attached to the wing belcrank such that the servo arm still has 1/8" travel before contacting the servo stops, not sure what those actual arm lengths were though. I've been practicing intercepting the localizer from about 125 degrees off course and it turns into it onto track within one tick on the OBS needle. It really improves upon the Navaid for precision and info display. I did suggest that they let the TOP be more then 1 nm. W ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:04 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan lucky macy wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" > > oh man, not what i wanted to hear. hope dynon solves this problem sooner > rather than later. anyone know if they are even acknowledging and work hard > on it? anyway, what's the scoop from them on how R&D is going, if at all, > on the larger display EFIS system? The EMI issue apparently is noticeable in only a small percentage of Dynon installations. And yes, they are *very* aware of it and are working the problem. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Dynon) http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:50 PM PST US From: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." Subject: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." There's a couple of very disappointing things about this situation: 1) in a total electric failure emergency, my backup handheld radio will most likely be rendered useless. 2) in an otherwise excellent product, those engineering folks at Dynon have completely dropped the ball in not doing thorough Quality Control checks on EMI. Isn't it obvious that in a highly electrified environment such as an airplane cockpit, one MUST check for EMI? Is that too much to ask? I will be giving them a call tomorrow. Paul ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:11 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: (irrelevant...delete now) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Tim Bryan wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" > > Aaand, The fiberglass work on my -6 is still not done and all of it is >ready to do. Your welcome to show up at my house and do as much as you want >as it scares me to even think of it. :-) >Tim Bryan >RV-6 N616TB 13 years in the making >finish kit still, running out of things to do to avoid the glass work > >- > A little fear can be a very healthy thing. :>) Dave ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:39 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Paul, Please keep us informed as to any findings that arise out of that call. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." Subject: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." > > There's a couple of very disappointing things about this situation: > > 1) in a total electric failure emergency, my backup handheld radio will most > likely be rendered useless. > > 2) in an otherwise excellent product, those engineering folks at Dynon have > completely dropped the ball in not doing thorough Quality Control checks on > EMI. Isn't it obvious that in a highly electrified environment such as an > airplane cockpit, one MUST check for EMI? Is that too much to ask? > > I will be giving them a call tomorrow. > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:48 PM PST US From: r miller Subject: RV-List: 2 questions fuel sender float, ground wires --> RV-List message posted by: r miller Two questions: 1. I have an older SW fuel tank sender but no float. Does anyone know what makes a good float or where to get a replacement. 2. Does anyone use ground wires for their wing tip lights or does everyone use the airframe as the ground path? ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:05 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Same here. All testing so far has shown no noise changes with the remote compass hooked up or not. Hope it stays that way. Good? Lucky? I'll take either one... - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan@rvproject.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:31 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > Here's a data point on the other side of the fence. I have a > Dynon with the EDC-D10 external compass. I have NO EMI to speak of. > > Granted, this is not a complete test, since I'm (a) not > running the engine and (b) not flying. But I figure if > there's no noise on the ground running only on the battery, > any noise that I experience in any other condition would have > to be due to an independent, external factor. > > Anyway, so far so good -- I'm not experiencing the same > problems that you guys are. Assume it comes down to how it's > installed & wired? > > I reserve the right to complain later as I do more thorough > testing... 8 > ) > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." > To: > Subject: RV-List: Dynon EMI (different scenario) > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." > > > > > I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the > external > > compass. However, what about this scenario: > > > > I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed in the > > panel, including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have the > Dynon external > > compass since the DG on the Dynon and my SIRS brand > magnetic compass > > read exactly the same. So far so good. > > > > However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to do a > > test. I hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery using > > alligator clips and > a > > 2 lengths of unshielded wire, one for positive and one for > negative. > > No other instrument is turned on. So the only electrons > flowing around > > are strictly Dynon electrons. When I give > the > > Dynon power, my handheld radio exhibits all sorts of noise > across all > > channels. It's so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the > power, > > the noise goes away. > > > > Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on > my panel COM > radio > > when I get to the point of completing it's installation? > > > > Regards, > > > > Paul > > > > > > > ============ > Matronics Forums. > ============ > ============ > ============ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:23 PM PST US From: r miller Subject: RV-List: I'm scratching my head? --> RV-List message posted by: r miller If your airplane is on the verge of stalling the lift closer to the root disappears as the stall works it way out to the tip right? So just before a stall at say 6G isn't the bending moment of the wing greater than a lower angle of attack carrying 6G? An exaggerated comparison would be a plane supported on its wing tips by saw horses versus supported by picnic tables. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:29 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: I'm scratching my head? --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" I thought, in general, any aircraft, the stall worked its way in from the tip. Of course it depents on washout (to delay tip stall to retain aileron control closer to stall) and other wing shape factors. I don't think the RV's have significant washout, so should stall from tip first and work inbd. This is purely an observation/thought without any specific knowledge of actual RV stall progression. So, DO NOT ARCHIVE David ----- Original Message ----- From: "r miller" Subject: RV-List: I'm scratching my head? > --> RV-List message posted by: r miller > > If your airplane is on the verge of stalling the lift closer to the > root disappears as the stall works it way out to the tip right? So > just before a stall at say 6G isn't the bending moment of the wing > greater than a lower angle of attack carrying 6G? An exaggerated > comparison would be a plane supported on its wing tips by saw horses > versus supported by picnic tables. > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:38 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: 2 questions fuel sender float, ground wires --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi R, !/ Try getting in touch with SW. 2/ Metal aircraft, use local grounding, less wire, less weight, less cost. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "r miller" Subject: RV-List: 2 questions fuel sender float, ground wires > --> RV-List message posted by: r miller > > Two questions: 1. I have an older SW fuel tank sender but no float. > Does anyone know what makes a good float or where to get a replacement. > 2. Does anyone use ground wires for their wing tip lights or does > everyone use the airframe as the ground path? > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:44 PM PST US From: "Bob n' Lu Olds" Subject: RV-List: Re:Fuel sender floats,ground wires --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob n' Lu Olds" The RV aircraft have fibreglas wingtips,so the wingtip lights have to be grounded to the metal of the airframe. A short groundwire to the spar tip stub or the end wing rib will accomplish the grounding. Bob Olds RV-4 A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas oldsfolks@aol.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:36 PM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: Re: RV-List: I'm scratching my head? --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" The King folks (John and Marha) did a neat experiment where they taped pieces of yarn to the wing. They filmed a stall, and you could see the yarn getting disturbed. It started at the tip and worked inboard. It might be a good experiment to do with an RV, just for kicks. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: I'm scratching my head? > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > I thought, in general, any aircraft, the stall worked its way in from the > tip. Of course it depents on washout (to delay tip stall to retain aileron > control closer to stall) and other wing shape factors. I don't think the > RV's have significant washout, so should stall from tip first and work inbd. > > This is purely an observation/thought without any specific knowledge of > actual RV stall progression. So, > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "r miller" > To: > Subject: RV-List: I'm scratching my head? > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: r miller > > > > If your airplane is on the verge of stalling the lift closer to the > > root disappears as the stall works it way out to the tip right? So > > just before a stall at say 6G isn't the bending moment of the wing > > greater than a lower angle of attack carrying 6G? An exaggerated > > comparison would be a plane supported on its wing tips by saw horses > > versus supported by picnic tables. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:27 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: [ Chalkie Stobbart+ ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Chalkie Stobbart+ Subject: Canopy and winshield attachment with Sika adhesive. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/cajole76@ispwest.com.02.01.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:18 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: [ Chalkie Stobbart ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Chalkie Stobbart Subject: RV-List article applicable to all RV's and all Plexiglas canopies. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/chalkboy@mweb.co.za.02.01.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:16 PM PST US From: "Cammie Patch" Subject: RE: RV-List: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" I had the West Systems setup with the pumps. I used to use it in woodworking, even built a door for a Taylor Craft with it. But then one day I realized that one of the pumps had leaked down into every single small parts drawer I had, so to use any rivet, nut, bolt, platenut, or fitting, it had to be cleaned first. What's the moral? I have no idea. Cammie do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV-List: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > I use West Systems 105 with 206 hardener (as recommended by Van's) from > Aircraft Spruce, and use a triple beam balance to get the 5:1 ratio. I weigh the > resin and multiply by 1.2 and move the scale to that number and then add I'm sure I'm probably stating the obvious, but Spruce sells a trivial ratio pump kit for West Systems. P/N: 01-00318 is only $10.20! http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/westepoxy.php Man, it's so easy to use and worth 5x the price! One pump of resin, one pump of hardener, mix it, done deal. Takes all the guesswork out of the equation. No caps to mess with -- just leave the pumps in the cans. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:38 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Cammie Patch wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" > >I had the West Systems setup with the pumps. I used to use it in >woodworking, even built a door for a Taylor Craft with it. >But then one day I realized that one of the pumps had leaked down into every >single small parts drawer I had, so to use any rivet, nut, bolt, platenut, >or fitting, it had to be cleaned first. >What's the moral? >I have no idea. > >Cammie >do not archive > The moral is to leave the caps a little loose so the cans can breathe. One real low pressure area can mess your drawers! :-[ Linn ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:15 PM PST US From: "Blanton Fortson http":blanton@alaska.net Subject: RV-List: Your Photos at http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 regarding: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 Patty, the fuel selector labeling as portrayed in this photo is ambiguous and potentially dangerous. The co-location of the words OFF and BOTH is part of the problem. The words are together at the top of the arc, but they are not really together as the words are separated by a screw head. To compound the matter, the indicator seems to be pointed more towards the BOTH sector. There is a vast difference between airplanes which have the fuel valve position choices BOTH, RIGHT, LEFT, OFF, and the airplanes which have fuel valve positions labeled RIGHT, LEFT, OFF. I've flown both sorts of airplanes. You may have a particular "local knowledge" of this particular aircraft, but others might fly this aircraft over the years. The labeling is just too idiosyncratic. I do not believe I've ever seen an airplane with the labels LEFT, RIGHT, BOTH OFF. It doesn't make sense and it's a dangerous precedent. I don't think you'd ever see that in a certificated airplane. Please read Peter Garrison's article in the current issue of flying and reflect upon some of the safety issues he brings up. Kind Regards, Blanton Fortson http://homepage.mac.com/blanton ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:08 PM PST US From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: Your Photos athttp://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" Hi Patty Very nice labeling and I am sure you are/were proud of it however I second Blanton, on some future flight with some other pilot should the "OFF" letters be obscured for some reason (dirt, pax clothing, hurried, panicked or whatever) some panicked pilot might only notice the "BOTH". I might also suggest that the left & right ON positions be more accurately defined, maybe a line between the words at the exact on position, example below. LEFT RIGHT <---- -----> TANK TANK and a nice touch would be to paint the fuel selector small pointer white to match the lettering (white selector on white lettering). Please do not take this as criticism, it is offered as a suggestion to make you sleep easier should you ever sell the aircraft. George in Langley ---------------------- regarding: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 Patty, the fuel selector labeling as portrayed in this photo is ambiguous and potentially dangerous. The co-location of the words OFF and BOTH is part of the problem. The words are together at the top of the arc, but they are not really together as the words are separated by a screw head. To compound the matter, the indicator seems to be pointed more towards the BOTH sector. There is a vast difference between airplanes which have the fuel valve position choices BOTH, RIGHT, LEFT, OFF, and the airplanes which have fuel valve positions labeled RIGHT, LEFT, OFF. I've flown both sorts of airplanes. You may have a particular "local knowledge" of this particular aircraft, but others might fly this aircraft over the years. The labeling is just too idiosyncratic. I do not believe I've ever seen an airplane with the labels LEFT, RIGHT, BOTH OFF. It doesn't make sense and it's a dangerous precedent. I don't think you'd ever see that in a certificated airplane. Please read Peter Garrison's article in the current issue of flying and reflect upon some of the safety issues he brings up. Kind Regards, Blanton Fortson http://homepage.mac.com/blanton ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:49 PM PST US From: "Blanton Fortson athttp":blanton@alaska.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Your Photos athttp://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson athttp://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 George, you put it much more nicely than I was able to. Thank you. Tone is important and I sometimes find it difficult to convey difficult information in this linear text based black and white medium as gently as you have managed, I hope to learn how to ! Blanton George writes: >>Please do not take this as criticism, it is offered as a suggestion to make you sleep easier should you ever sell the aircraft.<< Ditto. Blanton On Feb 1, 2004, at 10:28 PM, GMC wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" > > > Hi Patty > > Very nice labeling and I am sure you are/were proud of it however I > second > Blanton, on some future flight with some other pilot should the "OFF" > letters be obscured for some reason (dirt, pax clothing, hurried, > panicked > or whatever) some panicked pilot might only notice the "BOTH". > I might also suggest that the left & right ON positions be more > accurately > defined, maybe a line between the words at the exact on position, > example > below. > > LEFT RIGHT > <---- -----> > TANK TANK > > and a nice touch would be to paint the fuel selector small pointer > white to > match the lettering (white selector on white lettering). > > Please do not take this as criticism, it is offered as a suggestion to > make > you sleep easier should you ever sell the aircraft. > > George in Langley > > ---------------------- > regarding: > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 > > Patty, the fuel selector labeling as portrayed in this photo is > ambiguous and potentially dangerous. The co-location of the words OFF > and BOTH is part of the problem. The words are together at the top of > the arc, but they are not really together as the words are separated by > a screw head. To compound the matter, the indicator seems to be pointed > more towards the BOTH sector. There is a vast difference between > airplanes which have the fuel valve position choices BOTH, RIGHT, LEFT, > OFF, and the airplanes which have fuel valve positions labeled RIGHT, > LEFT, OFF. I've flown both sorts of airplanes. > > You may have a particular "local knowledge" of this particular > aircraft, but others might fly this aircraft over the years. The > labeling is just too idiosyncratic. > > I do not believe I've ever seen an airplane with the labels LEFT, > RIGHT, BOTH OFF. It doesn't make sense and it's a dangerous > precedent. I don't think you'd ever see that in a certificated > airplane. Please read Peter Garrison's article in the current issue of > flying and reflect upon some of the safety issues he brings up. > > Kind Regards, Blanton Fortson > > http://homepage.mac.com/blanton > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > >