Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:08 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Dana Overall)
3. 04:08 AM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (RV8ter@aol.com)
4. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Lenleg@aol.com)
5. 05:14 AM - Re: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
6. 05:49 AM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (linn walters)
7. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (linn walters)
8. 06:47 AM - Re: Your Photos at http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 (Cammie Patch)
9. 07:05 AM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (Paul Besing)
10. 08:07 AM - Re: Your Photos athttp://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002 (Dave Bristol)
11. 08:09 AM - Re: Your Photos at (Blanton Fortson)
12. 08:13 AM - .........and another (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
13. 08:38 AM - Re: .........and another (C. Rabaut)
14. 08:55 AM - Re: .........and another (Charles Rowbotham)
15. 09:08 AM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (Rob Prior)
16. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Kevin Behrent)
17. 10:16 AM - (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
18. 10:33 AM - Re: .........and another (Mark/Micki Phillips)
19. 10:45 AM - Re: (Glenn Brasch)
20. 11:33 AM - Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Ken Harrill)
21. 11:34 AM - Re: (Rob Prior)
22. 11:45 AM - Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Rob Prior)
23. 11:50 AM - Price Reduced: RV7 wing and tail kits (Jared Boone)
24. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Dan Checkoway)
25. 12:12 PM - Re: eBay O-320 engine (Lyle Peterson)
26. 12:19 PM - eBay item 2457533387 (Ends Feb-06-04 120243 PST) - Lycoming O-320 160hp engine (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
27. 12:19 PM - Re: (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
28. 12:22 PM - eBay item 2458056405 (Ends Feb-09-04 060845 PST) - Lycoming TIO 540 350HP Piper (Dr. Kevin P. Leathers)
29. 12:31 PM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (Doug Gray)
30. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Sam Buchanan)
31. 01:39 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (Richard Tasker)
32. 01:42 PM - Paint help? (Bruce Bell)
33. 02:24 PM - Re: Paint help? (Pat Hatch)
34. 03:02 PM - Re: Paint help? (Alex Peterson)
35. 04:10 PM - Re: Paint help? (John Danielson)
36. 04:12 PM - Re: I'm scratching my head? (jmjula@comcast.net)
37. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Dan Checkoway)
38. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Dana Overall)
39. 04:55 PM - Re: Paint help? (WPAerial@aol.com)
40. 05:11 PM - Re:Paint Help. (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
41. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Larry Bowen)
42. 06:43 PM - Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? (kempthornes)
43. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (Dan Checkoway)
44. 06:53 PM - 588RL (Jerry Springer)
45. 06:58 PM - Should have been 558RL (Jerry Springer)
46. 07:14 PM - Re: Paint help? (Randy Lervold)
47. 08:10 PM - Fw: Re: Dynon EMI (different scenario) (David Carter)
48. 08:12 PM - RV7 for Flight Simulator (Karie Daniel)
49. 09:08 PM - The groundloop from hell (Randy Lervold)
50. 09:37 PM - scratching my head (r miller)
51. 10:11 PM - Re: Paint help? (Vanremog@aol.com)
52. 10:29 PM - ebay sleeze or double your money with van's preview sets do not archive. So am I a "righteous asshole?" I saw what looked like a manual and preview plans for an RV4 on ebay, the description indicated that the plans were for building so I queried the seller: "what serial#. Is this a set of full sized plans or just a manual and preview plans?" (r miller)
53. 10:32 PM - Toe-in (Wheeler North)
54. 11:37 PM - Re: ebay sleeze or double your money with van's preview sets do not archive. So am I a "righteous asshole?" I saw what looked like a manual and preview plans for an RV4 on ebay, the description indicated that the plans were for building so I q (Patrick Kelley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>Paul,
>
>Please keep us informed as to any findings that arise out of that call.
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>
I don't mean to start a war here but it sounds like Paul might already have
his mind made up. If you read what Sam said, this "problem" has arisen in
minimal installs. I don't seem to have any issues at all. The comment
about a handheld not operational, I can take mine and run it all around the
unit and not break squelch.
Like Dan said with his non issues, I reserve the right to change my mind:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software optimizes dial-up to the max!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: I'm scratching my head? |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
I've heard that it's standard practice for most GA certified planes to
incorporate very slight washout in their wing design. That purposesly causes the
root of the wing to exceed the critical angle of attack (stall) before the outer
wing area does so the effect of this design is a "kinder, genteler" gradually
stalling wing, makes it hard to *fully* stall a wing and makes it quicker to
*fully* recover.
My 8's spar and ribs weren't design for that so the it might be interesting
but if were a betting person I'd bet the angle of attack is constant throughout
the maneuver.
lucky
do not archive
In a message dated 2/1/2004 10:47:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
azpilot@extremezone.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
The King folks (John and Marha) did a neat experiment where they taped
pieces of yarn to the wing. They filmed a stall, and you could see the yarn
getting disturbed. It started at the tip and worked inboard. It might be a
good experiment to do with an RV, just for kicks.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
In a message dated 2/2/2004 7:31:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
> The comment
> about a handheld not operational, I can take mine and run it all around the
> unit and not break squelch.
>
I have approx 30 - 40 hours on my Dynon now. I have no noise that I am aware
of. I can tell no difference now than before the install. I do not have the
remote compass. The unit came with the compass tape only about 10 degrees
off and I have not done any calibration yet so I can live with that for now.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
200 hrs
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: (irrelevant...) confession of an RV builder |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
I shouldn't have mentioned the triple-beam balance. I doubt if the mixing is
what causes the hang-up about fiberglass work. For me, at least, it has to
do with the work being more artistic and less scientific. I like to put things
together that fit in a certain way where fiberglass work is too infinite!
Anyway, its not about me, I was just trying to encourage anyone who is afraid of
that kind of work to just go ahead and get into it. Its usually not as bad
as you have imagined.
Dan N766DH RV-7A almost finished
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: I'm scratching my head? |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>I've heard that it's standard practice for most GA certified planes to
>incorporate very slight washout in their wing design. That purposesly causes
the
>root of the wing to exceed the critical angle of attack (stall) before the outer
>wing area does so the effect of this design is a "kinder, genteler" gradually
>stalling wing, makes it hard to *fully* stall a wing and makes it quicker to
>*fully* recover.
>
And some aircraft, like the Grumman line have stall strips on the
leading edge, near the fuselage, to break the laminar flow inboard
...... so the ailerons remain effective until really deep in the stall.
Linn
>My 8's spar and ribs weren't design for that so the it might be interesting
>but if were a betting person I'd bet the angle of attack is constant throughout
>the maneuver.
>
>lucky
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Lenleg@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 2/2/2004 7:31:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
>
>>he comment
>>about a handheld not operational, I can take mine and run it all around the
>>unit and not break squelch.
>>
>I have approx 30 - 40 hours on my Dynon now. I have no noise that I am aware
>of. I can tell no difference now than before the install. I do not have the
>remote compass. The unit came with the compass tape only about 10 degrees
>off and I have not done any calibration yet so I can live with that for now.
>
Since there is a great disparity in the number of 'problem' Vs.
'normal' units, I'd suspect poor grounding somewhere in the
installation. Just a WAG on my part. I haven't seen any good info put
forward on the 'problem' units. That makes it terribly hard to offer
good troubleshooting advice.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, NC N910LL
>200 hrs
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
This looks just like the fuel selector in the P206 that I fly. I was alarmed
when I first saw it (in the 206), but I haven't heard of any accidents
caused by it. Nevertheless, I wouldn't choose to have it placarded this way.
Cammie
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002
regarding:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002
Patty, the fuel selector labeling as portrayed in this photo is
ambiguous and potentially dangerous. The co-location of the words OFF
and BOTH is part of the problem. The words are together at the top of
the arc, but they are not really together as the words are separated by
a screw head. To compound the matter, the indicator seems to be pointed
more towards the BOTH sector. There is a vast difference between
airplanes which have the fuel valve position choices BOTH, RIGHT, LEFT,
OFF, and the airplanes which have fuel valve positions labeled RIGHT,
LEFT, OFF. I've flown both sorts of airplanes.
--------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: I'm scratching my head? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
whoops....I had it backwards. Too much coffee. They explained that
exaclty. That way you have aileron control up to the end of the stall.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV8ter@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: I'm scratching my head?
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
> I've heard that it's standard practice for most GA certified planes to
> incorporate very slight washout in their wing design. That purposesly
causes the
> root of the wing to exceed the critical angle of attack (stall) before the
outer
> wing area does so the effect of this design is a "kinder, genteler"
gradually
> stalling wing, makes it hard to *fully* stall a wing and makes it quicker
to
> *fully* recover.
>
> My 8's spar and ribs weren't design for that so the it might be
interesting
> but if were a betting person I'd bet the angle of attack is constant
throughout
> the maneuver.
>
> lucky
> do not archive
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2004 10:47:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> azpilot@extremezone.com writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
>
> The King folks (John and Marha) did a neat experiment where they taped
> pieces of yarn to the wing. They filmed a stall, and you could see the
yarn
> getting disturbed. It started at the tip and worked inboard. It might be
a
> good experiment to do with an RV, just for kicks.
>
>
Message 10
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PR0N_SUBJECT
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
GMC wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@intergate.ca>
>
>
>and a nice touch would be to paint the fuel selector small pointer white to
>match the lettering (white selector on white lettering).
>
This is a very important point, since some installations use the handle
end and some use the pointy end - a little paint on one end would solve
the problem.
Dave rv6, So Cal,EAA Technical Counselor / Flight Advisor
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Your Photos at |
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002
--> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002
Cammie, the 206 you fly likely has a BOTH and an OFF which are two
different positions, and if like my 206 those are the only two
positions. One of the problems with Patty's switch is that the words
BOTH OFF were associated with the same switch position which is
apparently the OFF position.
B.
On Feb 2, 2004, at 5:43 AM, Cammie Patch wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
>
> This looks just like the fuel selector in the P206 that I fly. I was
> alarmed
> when I first saw it (in the 206), but I haven't heard of any accidents
> caused by it. Nevertheless, I wouldn't choose to have it placarded
> this way.
> Cammie
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Blanton Fortson <blanton@alaska.net>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002
>
> regarding:
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/gillies-patty@sc.edu.07.07.2002
>
> Patty, the fuel selector labeling as portrayed in this photo is
> ambiguous and potentially dangerous. The co-location of the words OFF
> and BOTH is part of the problem. The words are together at the top of
> the arc, but they are not really together as the words are separated by
> a screw head. To compound the matter, the indicator seems to be pointed
> more towards the BOTH sector. There is a vast difference between
> airplanes which have the fuel valve position choices BOTH, RIGHT, LEFT,
> OFF, and the airplanes which have fuel valve positions labeled RIGHT,
> LEFT, OFF. I've flown both sorts of airplanes.
>
> --------
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | .........and another |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Saturday January 31, 2004, was a good day in TN.=A0 Under the skilled hand of
CFII and resident TPE (Test Pilot Extraordinaire) Mike Kellems, N51PW joined
the fleet, gracefully sailing into the severe-clear over Hunter Field near
Spring Hill.=A0 Mike reports she trims up hands-off dead level, runs strong, has
no
bad habits and is a genuine grin-generator.=A0 Can't wait for my turn!
Too many folks to thank, especially y'all right here and Matt for making it
so! Gotta mention fellow Nashville area builders Chris Brooks, Marty Emrath
and Tommy Walker, DAR Ed Hasch, Number One Bucking Buddy and inspiration John
DeYager, my dad for encouragement and support, and other family units for their
patience and assistance.
Will get some time in the saddle soon, sort thru the numbers and report
back.....
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - RV-6A - O-320, Catto 3-blade, tip-up & needing a paint
job...oh yeah, and FLYING!!!!!!!!
8-)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: .........and another |
--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Great Job Mark!!!
When I first heard of "Da Possum Works" I got a picture of.... well I
shouldn't say in mixed company. So send out a photo or two so we can change
that mental image. Take care & keep to the Air,
Chuck
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: .........and another
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Saturday January 31, 2004, was a good day in TN.=A0 Under the skilled hand
of
> CFII and resident TPE (Test Pilot Extraordinaire) Mike Kellems, N51PW
joined
> the fleet, gracefully sailing into the severe-clear over Hunter Field near
> Spring Hill.=A0 Mike reports she trims up hands-off dead level, runs
strong, has no
> bad habits and is a genuine grin-generator.=A0 Can't wait for my turn!
>
> Too many folks to thank, especially y'all right here and Matt for making
it
> so! Gotta mention fellow Nashville area builders Chris Brooks, Marty
Emrath
> and Tommy Walker, DAR Ed Hasch, Number One Bucking Buddy and inspiration
John
> DeYager, my dad for encouragement and support, and other family units for
their
> patience and assistance.
>
> Will get some time in the saddle soon, sort thru the numbers and report
> back.....
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips - RV-6A - O-320, Catto 3-blade, tip-up & needing a paint
> job...oh yeah, and FLYING!!!!!!!!
> 8-)
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: .........and another |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Mark,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: .........and another
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:37:18 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
>Great Job Mark!!!
>
>When I first heard of "Da Possum Works" I got a picture of.... well I
>shouldn't say in mixed company. So send out a photo or two so we can
>change
>that mental image. Take care & keep to the Air,
>
> Chuck
>
>Do Not Archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: .........and another
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> > Saturday January 31, 2004, was a good day in TN.=A0 Under the skilled
>hand
>of
> > CFII and resident TPE (Test Pilot Extraordinaire) Mike Kellems, N51PW
>joined
> > the fleet, gracefully sailing into the severe-clear over Hunter Field
>near
> > Spring Hill.=A0 Mike reports she trims up hands-off dead level, runs
>strong, has no
> > bad habits and is a genuine grin-generator.=A0 Can't wait for my turn!
> >
> > Too many folks to thank, especially y'all right here and Matt for making
>it
> > so! Gotta mention fellow Nashville area builders Chris Brooks, Marty
>Emrath
> > and Tommy Walker, DAR Ed Hasch, Number One Bucking Buddy and inspiration
>John
> > DeYager, my dad for encouragement and support, and other family units
>for
>their
> > patience and assistance.
> >
> > Will get some time in the saddle soon, sort thru the numbers and report
> > back.....
> >
> > From The PossumWorks in TN
> > Mark Phillips - RV-6A - O-320, Catto 3-blade, tip-up & needing a paint
> > job...oh yeah, and FLYING!!!!!!!!
> > 8-)
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: I'm scratching my head? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
r miller wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: r miller <robertpmiller@comcast.net>
> If your airplane is on the verge of stalling the lift closer to the
> root disappears as the stall works it way out to the tip right? So
> just before a stall at say 6G isn't the bending moment of the wing
> greater than a lower angle of attack carrying 6G? An exaggerated
> comparison would be a plane supported on its wing tips by saw horses
> versus supported by picnic tables.
Two comments... One, as other people have pointed out, it's common
practise to design a wing so that it stalls at the root first. That way
you start to "sink" due to the loss of lift, before you lose aileron
effectiveness. That way when you panic and try to roll the wings level
instead of using the rudder, you won't make things worse. I don't know
what the RV wing does, but my *guess* is that it would do the same thing.
Two, as to whether the bending moment increases when this happens? No,
it doesn't. When the root section of the wing loses lift, you start to
fall out of the sky. So the outer sections of the wings aren't carrying
the same load, redistributed to the outer sections, they're carrying the
same load they were before the stall started.
If you were to pull back further on the stick to maintain your altitude
(and increase the G loading), then yes, the load would increase... But
at the higher G loading more of the wing would stall, and thereby carry
less load, so you'd have to pull back further...
-Rob
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
"Paul Boyce, Ph.D." wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." <matronicspost@csg-i.com>
>
> There's a couple of very disappointing things about this situation:
>
> 1) in a total electric failure emergency, my backup handheld radio will most
> likely be rendered useless.
>
> 2) in an otherwise excellent product, those engineering folks at Dynon have
> completely dropped the ball in not doing thorough Quality Control checks on
> EMI. Isn't it obvious that in a highly electrified environment such as an
> airplane cockpit, one MUST check for EMI? Is that too much to ask?
>
> I will be giving them a call tomorrow.
>
> Paul
>
One possible reason why some people are having "noticeable" EMI interference
and others don't is the quaility and vintage of radio(s) that they have
installed.
I say this because I have experienced this when I had a complete panel upgrade
on my Mooney where a complete Garmin stack was put in, but I retained my old,
trusty, Narco Mark 12D+/DME. The GNS430 and the Narco constantly interfered with
each other and both units were sent back to the respective factory on multiple
occassions. What was finally determined, by both manufactures, was noise
filtering capability on both units. The 430 does a pretty good in pre/post
filtering so that the large LCD panel would not interfere with "newer" avionics.
The Narco, on the other hand, has little pre filtering, thus is very reactive to
the lcd screen. It also emits it's own share of emi that the 430 tries to
handle, but fails when conditions are right. The solution, however exceptable
but not perfect, was shielding everything, and doing some rework on the radio
trays to help shield.
The lesson I learned was not to mix new new with old. For what it cost to
minimize the problem, I could have purchased a second 430.
We had the President of Dynon speak at our January EAA monthly meeting and I can
say that he and his engineers are very bright people and they will find a way to
reduce or eliminate the problem. On the other hand, LCD screens will always
emit a certain level of radiation that older generation of radios do not
filter. As glass panels evolve, so does radio filtering. However, don't expect
that your radio(s) are properly filtered to guard againt these emissions.
It would be interesting to study the type of avionics being used by both groups
and see if there are any similarities.
Kevin Behrent
RV-9A - Wings
EAA 326, President
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Ebay has an O320 for sale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&item2457533387
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: .........and another |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark/Micki Phillips" <mphill@gcctv.com>
Mark, congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark Phillips
Williamsville Illinois RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: .........and another
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham"
<crowbotham@hotmail.com>
>
> Mark,
>
> CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!!
>
> Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> RV-8A
>
>
> >From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: .........and another
> >Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:37:18 -0600
> >
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> >
> >Great Job Mark!!!
> >
> >When I first heard of "Da Possum Works" I got a picture of.... well I
> >shouldn't say in mixed company. So send out a photo or two so we can
> >change
> >that mental image. Take care & keep to the Air,
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >Do Not Archive
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV-List: .........and another
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> > >
> > > Saturday January 31, 2004, was a good day in TN.=A0 Under the skilled
> >hand
> >of
> > > CFII and resident TPE (Test Pilot Extraordinaire) Mike Kellems, N51PW
> >joined
> > > the fleet, gracefully sailing into the severe-clear over Hunter Field
> >near
> > > Spring Hill.=A0 Mike reports she trims up hands-off dead level, runs
> >strong, has no
> > > bad habits and is a genuine grin-generator.=A0 Can't wait for my turn!
> > >
> > > Too many folks to thank, especially y'all right here and Matt for
making
> >it
> > > so! Gotta mention fellow Nashville area builders Chris Brooks, Marty
> >Emrath
> > > and Tommy Walker, DAR Ed Hasch, Number One Bucking Buddy and
inspiration
> >John
> > > DeYager, my dad for encouragement and support, and other family units
> >for
> >their
> > > patience and assistance.
> > >
> > > Will get some time in the saddle soon, sort thru the numbers and
report
> > > back.....
> > >
> > > From The PossumWorks in TN
> > > Mark Phillips - RV-6A - O-320, Catto 3-blade, tip-up & needing a paint
> > > job...oh yeah, and FLYING!!!!!!!!
> > > 8-)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
Shows up as an invalid item, like last time..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Subject: RV-List:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
<DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
> Ebay has an O320 for sale
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&item2
457533387
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Harrill <KHarrill@osa.state.sc.us>
Paul,
I have no explanation for what I am about to tell you. I have the Dynon
D-10 with external compass in my RV-6. I now have well over 100 hours on
it. I have experienced no EMI at all. No problem. Nada. I am a happy
customer. Go figure.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 300 hours
Columbia, SC
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D."
<matronicspost@csg-i.com>
>
>I know that this issue has been discussed as it relates the external
>compass. However, what about this scenario:
>
>I'm building an RV-7A and have all my instruments installed in the panel,
>including the Dynon D-10 EFIS. I do not have the Dynon external compass
>since the DG on the Dynon and my SIRS brand magnetic compass read exactly
>the same. So far so good.
>
>However, given the discussion of the EMI issue, I decided to do a test. I
>hooked up the Dynon directly to my main battery using alligator clips and a
>2 lengths of unshielded wire, one for positive and one for negative. No
>other instrument is turned on. So the
>only electrons flowing around are strictly Dynon electrons. When I give the
>Dynon power, my handheld radio exhibits all sorts of noise across all
>channels. It's so loud I cannot even hear AWOS. When I take away the power,
>the noise goes away.
>
>Does this mean that I also will have the noise problem on my panel COM
radio
>when I get to the point of completing it's installation?
>
>Regards,
>
>Paul
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
For some reason the "equals" signs were missing in Kevin's post. Here's
the complete line, let's see if it comes through this time:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26437&item=2457533387>
-RB4
Glenn Brasch wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
>
> Shows up as an invalid item, like last time..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
>
> <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
>
>>Ebay has an O320 for sale
>>
>>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&item2
> 457533387
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Ed Holyoke wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net> I
> just searched it at 89.99 and it claims 2500 rpm.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4027
For what it's worth, I bought one of these through KMS tools in
Coquitlam, BC (www.kmstools.com), my local Chicago Pneumatic
distributor. I picked it up on Saturday, for $169 CDN.
As mentioned below, it says 2800rpm on the box. I didn't measure it.
But it's a *very* sweet drill. Small, comfortable, and the trigger
teases just wonderfully. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a
1/4" palm drill.
Until I saw this one I was considering the $240 US Sioux drill as well,
which would undoubtably be nice, but it's a heck of a lot more money.
> I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I usually
> end up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first
> time. It's not a good way to save money.
Very true. In this case, however, I would say that the Chicago
Pneumatic drill is as good in build quality as the Sioux equivalent.
Mind you, that's only based on a visual comparison of the two.
-Rob
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze <swayze@europa.com>
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
>
> I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from
> the "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and
> Cleaveland, and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking
> for any feedback from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have
> one? Do you like it? Would you buy it again? I'm building my tool
> collection and I'm wondering if it would be worth spending roughly
> $150 more to get the Sioux.
Message 23
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|
rv7-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Price Reduced: RV7 wing and tail kits |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jared Boone <jboone@earfeast.com>
[A fellow builder talked some sense into me. I'm now asking $5,500 for
my RV7 wing and tail kits.]
Reality has set in, and I've decided that now is not the time for me to
build an airplane. So I'm selling my RV7 tail and wing kits. Here's your
chance to save money on both kits, with some of the work already done,
and avoid the factory lead-time on the wing kit.
I have done about 70% of the metal work on the tail kit, but have not
primed or riveted the pieces yet. A local "Fed" came by and looked at my
work and thought it was outstanding. The wing kit is completely
untouched. I have inventoried the parts and sorted most of the hardware,
and that's it. I ordered the Duckworks landing lights (the square ones,
I think), electric trim, and the capacitive fuel sender.
The parts are located near Portland, OR and are available for
inspection. I would like to sell the kits to someone in the area, and
could even arrange delivery within 100 miles or so. I am asking $5,500
for both kits.
I also have old preview plans (circa 1998) for the -6 and the -8, if
anyone's interested in those.
Thanks!
- Jared Boone
jboone@earfeast.com
(503) 320-2066
Portland, OR
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> It would be interesting to study the type of avionics being used by both
groups
> and see if there are any similarities.
NO EMI NOISE with:
- EDC-D10 installed at F-707, shielded 3-conductor wire, shield used as 4th
conductor
- single point of ground, firewall mounted forest of tabs
- only devices not grounded at single point: landing lights + pitot heat
- fuse blocks: battery bus + main bus + e-bus, diode/alternate feed
- belly Comant COM antenna
- belly TED xpdr antenna
- right wing tip Archer VOR antenna
- right wing tip 40" stripped RG-400 marker antenna
- left wing tip Archer COM antenna
- all antennas use RG-400 coax
- Nulite instrument lighting rings (4x)
- Odyssey PC-680, firewall mounted
- contactors firewall mounted, no wire larger than 8AWG in cockpit
- ACS2002
- Garmin GMA-340
- UPSAT GX60
- UPSAT SL30
- Garmin GTX-320A
- Apollo ACU
- Mid-Continent CDI
- Mid-Continent turn coordinator
- shielded headset/mic wires
I'm trying to think if there are any other factors that could, in some
minute way, contribute to this issue. Anyway, that's my setup for what it's
worth.
Oh yeah...mine's a taildragger and it has a tip-up. That MUST be it!!! Or
could it be the type of primer I used? 8-) Just kidding.
I'd be curious to see what's different in settings where EMI noise is a
problem.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | eBay O-320 engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap@access4less.net>
Go to ebay at this URL - http://pages.ebay.com/
Type in or paste the item number, 2457533387 in this case, in the search
window. Click 'Find It' or press <Enter>. This will take you directly
to the auction for the item. The item number is at the end of the URL
that isn't working. It is a little tricky to copy from URLs in an email
message. It wants to open the site right away. Start at the end of the
URL and move the cursor to the left. You may get '&item' in the copy
but that is easy to edit out when you paste it.
Lyle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Kevin P.
Leathers
Subject: RV-List:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
<DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Ebay has an O320 for sale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&i
tem2457533387
==
==
==
==
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | eBay item 2457533387 (Ends Feb-06-04 120243 PST) - Lycoming O-320 |
160hp engine
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&item2457533387
Message 27
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
Sorry Guys,
I don't know why that happens. I right click on the url and then copy it
then paste it here. Anyway, it's still there. Just type in Lycoming.
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
>
> Shows up as an invalid item, like last time..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List:
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers"
> <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
> >
> > Ebay has an O320 for sale
> >
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&item2
> 457533387
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | eBay item 2458056405 (Ends Feb-09-04 060845 PST) - Lycoming TIO |
540 350HP Piper
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers@822heal.com>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category26437&item2458056405
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: I'm scratching my head? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
IIRC... Usually tapered wings need the washout.
Reynolds number increases with the reduced cord, so pushes the tip
closer to the stall relative to the root. The twist reduces the AoA at
the tip to compensate.
Doug Gray
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Kevin Behrent wrote:
<snip>
> It would be interesting to study the type of avionics being used by both groups
> and see if there are any similarities.
>
>
> Kevin Behrent
> RV-9A - Wings
> EAA 326, President
Dynon with KX125; EMI present on COM (but not NAV) but has been
suppressed to nearly insignificant level..
Sam Buchanan
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
I purchased one of these and it is very nice. There is a listing on
ebay (20 pieces available) for $72.50 + 4.95 shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31482&item=2592755170
I have been using a 3/8 air drill that I had around for years. It is
more powerful, but is much bigger. I wish I had this 1/4" drill when I
started.
Dick Tasker, 90573
finishing up lots of things...
Rob Prior wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
>
>Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net> I
>>just searched it at 89.99 and it claims 2500 rpm.
>>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4027
>>
>>
>
>For what it's worth, I bought one of these through KMS tools in
>Coquitlam, BC (www.kmstools.com), my local Chicago Pneumatic
>distributor. I picked it up on Saturday, for $169 CDN.
>
>As mentioned below, it says 2800rpm on the box. I didn't measure it.
>But it's a *very* sweet drill. Small, comfortable, and the trigger
>teases just wonderfully. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a
>1/4" palm drill.
>
>Until I saw this one I was considering the $240 US Sioux drill as well,
>which would undoubtably be nice, but it's a heck of a lot more money.
>
>
>
>>I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I usually
>>end up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first
>>time. It's not a good way to save money.
>>
>>
>
>Very true. In this case, however, I would say that the Chicago
>Pneumatic drill is as good in build quality as the Sioux equivalent.
>Mind you, that's only based on a visual comparison of the two.
>
>-Rob
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze <swayze@europa.com>
>>
>>Fellow Listers,
>>
>>Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
>>
>>I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from
>>the "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and
>>Cleaveland, and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking
>>for any feedback from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have
>>one? Do you like it? Would you buy it again? I'm building my tool
>>collection and I'm wondering if it would be worth spending roughly
>>$150 more to get the Sioux.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Hi all you who have painted your RV's,
I am masking off the fuselage and wonder about all those screw holes for the
tail, wing and landing gear fairings. All have plate nuts. I am thinking
about match sticks or something like that. What have you all done? I don't
want any paint on the plate nut threads.
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Bruce, paint away, you won't get any overspray on the nutplate threads.
Well, none that you will be able to tell. I saw no difference before and
after when installing the screws. And this was base coat/clear coat.
You can see my RV-6 paint journal at:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch
do not archive
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Subject: RV-List: Paint help?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
>
> Hi all you who have painted your RV's,
> I am masking off the fuselage and wonder about all those screw holes for
the
> tail, wing and landing gear fairings. All have plate nuts. I am thinking
> about match sticks or something like that. What have you all done? I don't
> want any paint on the plate nut threads.
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
>
>
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> Hi all you who have painted your RV's,
> I am masking off the fuselage and wonder about all those
> screw holes for the tail, wing and landing gear fairings. All
> have plate nuts. I am thinking about match sticks or
> something like that. What have you all done? I don't want any
> paint on the plate nut threads. Best regards, Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas RV4 # 2888
Bruce,
What I found important is to block all holes such as the screw holes or
any other holes. The problem isn't just keeping paint off the threads.
The air from the spray gun tends to jet through the holes, leaving
unusually large amounts of paint around the perimeter of the hole. I'd
just put blue masking tape on the backsides, and not worry about the
paint's affect on the threads. What I described above is a bigger
problem than a little paint in the threads.
A good way might be to get some threaded rod, and cut it into small
lengths. They wouldn't have to be turned in more than a half turn or
so.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 434 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 35
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
I saw any difference either. Paint away.
John L. Danielson
307-266-2524
johnd@wlcwyo.com
WLC, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Hatch
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint help?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Bruce, paint away, you won't get any overspray on the nutplate threads.
Well, none that you will be able to tell. I saw no difference before
and
after when installing the screws. And this was base coat/clear coat.
You can see my RV-6 paint journal at:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch
do not archive
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Subject: RV-List: Paint help?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
>
> Hi all you who have painted your RV's,
> I am masking off the fuselage and wonder about all those screw holes
for
the
> tail, wing and landing gear fairings. All have plate nuts. I am
thinking
> about match sticks or something like that. What have you all done? I
don't
> want any paint on the plate nut threads.
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: I'm scratching my head? |
--> RV-List message posted by: jmjula@comcast.net
In general, rectangular wings stall starting at the root and working towards the
tip. Tapered usually does the opposite by starting the stall at the tip and
working towards the root. In the later case, this would limit any aileron control,
so the wing tip is typically twisted to keep it from stalling prior to the
rest of the wing. Go look at a Cessna 172 wing sometime, you will see all three
of the scenarios built in. From the fuselage to the strut joint you will find
a rectangular wing, and from there to the tip it is tapered. It would appear
that they want to keep the wing loading near the strut joint during a stall.
You will also find the wing tip twisted for improved aileron control, presumably
to reduce the chance of forcing a spin when the pilot uses the ailerons instead
of the rudder during recovery.
James
Do not archive
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Ok...major update. I feel like a dope now. Did some more testing and I
*do* have plenty of EMI. But it only appears to affect my 2nd radio (SL30).
The effect is on both COM & NAV functionality. Before I go and state things
that aren't true (jeez, I've done enough of that already, sorry), let me
first say that I have not yet flown, and my tests have only been conducted
on the ground.
Here are the on-the-ground results:
- COM1 (GX60) is unaffected, clean.
- COM2 (SL30) is affected slightly...enough to break squelch, otherwise
fine.
- NAV2 (SL30) is heavily affected. With the Dynon off, I can pick up the
local ILS and a VOR 7 miles away. With the Dynon on, the NAV goes flagged
on both freqs and I can't hear the ident anymore.
The ACS2002 screen also seems to play a role in the equation, albeit less
pronounced than the Dynon. It doesn't seem to affect COM much if at all,
but it does affect NAV signal slightly. I spoke with Rob Hickman at
Advanced Control Systems, and he said they have a filter that should fix the
problem.
Anyway, I will keep posting my progress...but please discard my previous "I
have no noise" messages. I was temporarily on the crack. 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario)
> > It would be interesting to study the type of avionics being used by both
> groups
> > and see if there are any similarities.
>
> NO EMI NOISE with:
>
> - EDC-D10 installed at F-707, shielded 3-conductor wire, shield used as
4th
> conductor
> - single point of ground, firewall mounted forest of tabs
> - only devices not grounded at single point: landing lights + pitot heat
> - fuse blocks: battery bus + main bus + e-bus, diode/alternate feed
> - belly Comant COM antenna
> - belly TED xpdr antenna
> - right wing tip Archer VOR antenna
> - right wing tip 40" stripped RG-400 marker antenna
> - left wing tip Archer COM antenna
> - all antennas use RG-400 coax
> - Nulite instrument lighting rings (4x)
> - Odyssey PC-680, firewall mounted
> - contactors firewall mounted, no wire larger than 8AWG in cockpit
> - ACS2002
> - Garmin GMA-340
> - UPSAT GX60
> - UPSAT SL30
> - Garmin GTX-320A
> - Apollo ACU
> - Mid-Continent CDI
> - Mid-Continent turn coordinator
> - shielded headset/mic wires
>
> I'm trying to think if there are any other factors that could, in some
> minute way, contribute to this issue. Anyway, that's my setup for what
it's
> worth.
>
> Oh yeah...mine's a taildragger and it has a tip-up. That MUST be it!!!
Or
> could it be the type of primer I used? 8-) Just kidding.
>
> I'd be curious to see what's different in settings where EMI noise is a
> problem.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>Ok...major update. I feel like a dope now. Did some more testing and I
>*do* have plenty of EMI. But it only appears to affect my 2nd radio
>(SL30).
I beginning to see a little pattern here. My Garmin 430 is not affected by
the Dynon. I can relate something when we installed a Garmin GPS/NAV/COM in
the Bonanza. We were getting bleed through from the KX-155. It kinda
appears the newer radios are less affected.
Mike is your new 430 affected by the Dynon?
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
http://wine.msn.com/
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: WPAerial@aol.com
No problems with the holes. But my paint was drying before hitting the metal.
So I just sanded off $600 of paint. And will re paint next month. Paint
away.
Just did my first annual.
flew today. thought how ugly the paint looked. than just smiled about how
well it flies :-)
do not archive
Jerry Wilken
Albany Oregon
RV6A N699WP
198 hours
Message 40
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--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Why not put the screws into the holes and paint the screw heads?
I wasted time painting the screw heads seperately.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
do not archive
Message 41
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| Subject: | RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
How did you change your testing to realize you had EMI issues?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan@rvproject.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 7:25 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario)
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Ok...major update. I feel like a dope now. Did some more
> testing and I
> *do* have plenty of EMI. But it only appears to affect my
> 2nd radio (SL30). The effect is on both COM & NAV
> functionality. Before I go and state things that aren't true
> (jeez, I've done enough of that already, sorry), let me first
> say that I have not yet flown, and my tests have only been
> conducted on the ground.
>
> Here are the on-the-ground results:
>
> - COM1 (GX60) is unaffected, clean.
>
> - COM2 (SL30) is affected slightly...enough to break squelch,
> otherwise fine.
>
> - NAV2 (SL30) is heavily affected. With the Dynon off, I can
> pick up the local ILS and a VOR 7 miles away. With the Dynon
> on, the NAV goes flagged on both freqs and I can't hear the
> ident anymore.
>
> The ACS2002 screen also seems to play a role in the equation,
> albeit less pronounced than the Dynon. It doesn't seem to
> affect COM much if at all, but it does affect NAV signal
> slightly. I spoke with Rob Hickman at Advanced Control
> Systems, and he said they have a filter that should fix the problem.
>
> Anyway, I will keep posting my progress...but please discard
> my previous "I have no noise" messages. I was temporarily on
> the crack. 8-)
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario)
>
>
> > > It would be interesting to study the type of avionics
> being used by
> > > both
> > groups
> > > and see if there are any similarities.
> >
> > NO EMI NOISE with:
> >
> > - EDC-D10 installed at F-707, shielded 3-conductor wire,
> shield used
> > as
> 4th
> > conductor
> > - single point of ground, firewall mounted forest of tabs
> > - only devices not grounded at single point: landing lights + pitot
> > heat
> > - fuse blocks: battery bus + main bus + e-bus, diode/alternate feed
> > - belly Comant COM antenna
> > - belly TED xpdr antenna
> > - right wing tip Archer VOR antenna
> > - right wing tip 40" stripped RG-400 marker antenna
> > - left wing tip Archer COM antenna
> > - all antennas use RG-400 coax
> > - Nulite instrument lighting rings (4x)
> > - Odyssey PC-680, firewall mounted
> > - contactors firewall mounted, no wire larger than 8AWG in cockpit
> > - ACS2002
> > - Garmin GMA-340
> > - UPSAT GX60
> > - UPSAT SL30
> > - Garmin GTX-320A
> > - Apollo ACU
> > - Mid-Continent CDI
> > - Mid-Continent turn coordinator
> > - shielded headset/mic wires
> >
> > I'm trying to think if there are any other factors that
> could, in some
> > minute way, contribute to this issue. Anyway, that's my setup for
> > what
> it's
> > worth.
> >
> > Oh yeah...mine's a taildragger and it has a tip-up. That MUST be
> > it!!!
> Or
> > could it be the type of primer I used? 8-) Just kidding.
> >
> > I'd be curious to see what's different in settings where
> EMI noise is
> > a problem.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
I just got a nice 1/4" CP drill from Kits Tools in Detroit, Michigan -
under $75.
hal
At 11:44 AM 2/2/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
>
>Ed Holyoke wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net> I
> > just searched it at 89.99 and it claims 2500 rpm.
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4027
>
>For what it's worth, I bought one of these through KMS tools in
>Coquitlam, BC (www.kmstools.com), my local Chicago Pneumatic
>distributor. I picked it up on Saturday, for $169 CDN.
>
>As mentioned below, it says 2800rpm on the box. I didn't measure it.
>But it's a *very* sweet drill. Small, comfortable, and the trigger
>teases just wonderfully. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a
>1/4" palm drill.
>
>Until I saw this one I was considering the $240 US Sioux drill as well,
>which would undoubtably be nice, but it's a heck of a lot more money.
>
> > I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I usually
> > end up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first
> > time. It's not a good way to save money.
>
>Very true. In this case, however, I would say that the Chicago
>Pneumatic drill is as good in build quality as the Sioux equivalent.
>Mind you, that's only based on a visual comparison of the two.
>
>-Rob
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Swayze <swayze@europa.com>
> >
> > Fellow Listers,
> >
> > Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
> >
> > I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from
> > the "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and
> > Cleaveland, and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking
> > for any feedback from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have
> > one? Do you like it? Would you buy it again? I'm building my tool
> > collection and I'm wondering if it would be worth spending roughly
> > $150 more to get the Sioux.
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> How did you change your testing to realize you had EMI issues?
Um...it's embarrassing, but I just tested the 2nd radio. I hadn't hooked up
the antenna to it yet. I figured if I didn't get any noise at all in one
radio, why would it affect the other? Well, I'm still stumped as to why
that's the case, but it seems to be.
Tomorrow I'm going to swap antenna connections, so I'll make sure that it's
the radio and not the antenna. I'll report my findings if anything
conclusive comes of it.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 44
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Randy Lervold how about telling us the story behind the accident report
in todays NTSP prelims?
Jerry
do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Should have been 558RL |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Randy Lervold how about telling us the story behind the accident report
in todays NTSP prelims?
Jerry
do not archive
Message 46
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
> Hi all you who have painted your RV's,
> I am masking off the fuselage and wonder about all those screw holes for
the
> tail, wing and landing gear fairings. All have plate nuts. I am thinking
> about match sticks or something like that. What have you all done? I don't
> want any paint on the plate nut threads.
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
Small lengths of pipe cleaner stuck in each hole did the trick for me.
Randy Lervold
Vancouver, WA
RV-8 #80500
Message 47
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| Subject: | RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
This interesting thread on the RV-list probaly has a place on the
Aeroelectric list, also, in case some players aren't monitoring both.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Behrent" <kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Dynon EMI (different scenario)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Behrent
<kbehrent@cascadiasoftware.com>
>
> "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D."
<matronicspost@csg-i.com>
> >
> > There's a couple of very disappointing things about this situation:
> >
> > 1) in a total electric failure emergency, my backup handheld radio will
most
> > likely be rendered useless.
> >
> > 2) in an otherwise excellent product, those engineering folks at Dynon
have
> > completely dropped the ball in not doing thorough Quality Control checks
on
> > EMI. Isn't it obvious that in a highly electrified environment such as
an
> > airplane cockpit, one MUST check for EMI? Is that too much to ask?
> >
> > I will be giving them a call tomorrow.
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> One possible reason why some people are having "noticeable" EMI
interference
> and others don't is the quaility and vintage of radio(s) that they have
> installed.
>
> I say this because I have experienced this when I had a complete panel
upgrade
> on my Mooney where a complete Garmin stack was put in, but I retained my
old,
> trusty, Narco Mark 12D+/DME. The GNS430 and the Narco constantly
interfered with
> each other and both units were sent back to the respective factory on
multiple
> occassions. What was finally determined, by both manufactures, was noise
> filtering capability on both units. The 430 does a pretty good in pre/post
> filtering so that the large LCD panel would not interfere with "newer"
avionics.
> The Narco, on the other hand, has little pre filtering, thus is very
reactive to
> the lcd screen. It also emits it's own share of emi that the 430 tries to
> handle, but fails when conditions are right. The solution, however
exceptable
> but not perfect, was shielding everything, and doing some rework on the
radio
> trays to help shield.
>
> The lesson I learned was not to mix new new with old. For what it cost to
> minimize the problem, I could have purchased a second 430.
>
> We had the President of Dynon speak at our January EAA monthly meeting and
I can
> say that he and his engineers are very bright people and they will find a
way to
> reduce or eliminate the problem. On the other hand, LCD screens will
always
> emit a certain level of radiation that older generation of radios do not
> filter. As glass panels evolve, so does radio filtering. However, don't
expect
> that your radio(s) are properly filtered to guard againt these emissions.
>
> It would be interesting to study the type of avionics being used by both
groups
> and see if there are any similarities.
>
>
> Kevin Behrent
> RV-9A - Wings
> EAA 326, President
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | RV7 for Flight Simulator |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" <karie4@comcast.net>
First of all, I am in no way associated with Flight Factory Simulations! I'm just
a fan of MS Flight Simulator. The link below is to a company who has just released
an RV-7 for MS Flight Simulator. The cost for the aircraft is $19.00 bucks.
The RV-7 comes equipped with a tip-up canopy, 200hp engine and it's a tail
dragger. The flight dynamics are fairly realistic and it has a downloadable
POH that is included in the price.
If you like simulations for practicing approaches, maneuvers or whatever then why
not have an RV-7? I spent some time with it and it's was a kick to show my
family what my airplane will look like........some day.
http://www.flightfactory-simulations.com/
Karie Daniel
Sammamish, WA
RV-7A QB in progress
Message 49
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|
<eperry@san.rr.com>, <owens@aerovironment.com>,
"John Barker" <jcbarker@starband.net>, "Gary Sobek" <GASobek@comcast.net>
| Subject: | The groundloop from hell |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Guys,
Many of you have seen the notice of an "incident" on Saturday 1/31 in
Vancouver, WA on the FAA web site involving N558RL. And many of you have
sent messages of query and/or condolence to me. I am truly touched, I
genuinely appreciate the concern, thanks so much. Here's the notice in case
you're interested...
http://www1.faa.gov/avr/aai/M_0202_N.txt
Now, what happened? This is a story you won't believe. As most of you know I
had put the plane up for sale. I had immediate interest and had buyers
wanting to send me deposits without seeing the plane in person. I refused
the deposits but made arrangements for the first party who contacted me to
come up this past weekend from Florida and asked the other guys to call back
after Saturday. He flew up on Friday evening. Saturday we spent the day
flying around, or should I say scud running, to local airports in the nasty
NW weather. He turned out to be really good guy, absolutely loved the plane,
and had decided to buy it. We were heading back to Pearson to sit down with
the purchase contract my attorney had drawn up and exchange the check
($100k).
I monitored the ASOS for Pearson as we proceeded inbound which indicated a
10 knot wind 90 degrees to the runway. Upon rolling out on final I could
tell the wind was stronger than that and was gusting. I made an approach at
85 mph, +5 mph from my normal two-up speed and proceeded in. I was flighting
the gusts all the way down and with the extra speed just wasn't comfortable
with the way it was settling, or not settling, down on the runway so I
gassed it and went around. On the next approach I went back down to 80 mph,
my normal two-up speed, hoping to avoid the prolonged float, and made a
solid approach. I held variable right stick and left rudder down through the
flare and got it on the ground solidly and dead straight -- it was done
flying. Still holding full right stick and a bit of left rudder, we were
rolling out straight down the runway -- thought I had nailed it. At
approximately 30 mph groundspeed (later corroborated by my backseater, a
2,000 hour jet-rated pilot and sailboat racer) a gust hit from the right and
the tail started moving left. Full left rudder just wouldn't correct, we
were going too slowly, and by the time I thought about jabbing the throttle
for some additional rudder authority we were almost 90 degrees and sliding
sideways. The pavement was wet and we were sliding -- I was thinking to
myself "sh**, this will damage my wheelpants and I'm gonna have to replace
'em before I can sell it". Then the left (lead) wheel started hopping, dug
into the pavement, pogoed the plane up a bit and collapsed down on the left
wing just as we moved off the pavement onto the grass. As I watched the wing
go down I could see it wrinkle and thought "ok, that wing won't be flying
any more". I was aware of exactly what was happening every nanosecond and
could feel everything. Still, I just couldn't believe it. It was so slow and
benign feeling that I couldn't believe the gear collapsed. We were jostled
around less than light turbulence while flying. After coming to a stop I
just started shutting the ship down normally in checklist sequence. There
was no tension or urgency at all. I smelled no fuel but my backseater said
"hey, we better get outa here. I pulled the canopy back and let him exit
while I finished my shut down and closed the fuel valve -- no fuel smell
though. I exited normally and said to him "now EXACTLY what just happened?".
Well, you know what happened, but I wanted his analysis of the situation to
immediately learn what I had done wrong. He agreed that I had flown a
beautiful approach, flare, and landing, but we simply got hit with a large
gust at precisely the wrong time. Could some combination of rudder, brake,
and throttle have saved it if I was a better pilot? I truly don't know. Here
is the FAA weather metars listed in the above referenced report... WEATHER:
VUOA505 2153Z 17010G17KT 10SM -RA OVC030 7/3 A2993. I landed runway 08, so
the "17010G17KT" had the wind direction at exactly 90 degrees with the wind
at 10 gusting to 17. Hmm, could a 17 knot gust do that? Felt like more than
that to me and my pax both.
The left wing had significant wrinkling in it while it was laying on it,
presumably from dropping down it after the gear folded under. After we
propped it up some of it went away but there's no way I'm flying that wing
again. The wing tip and aileron are crunched, the left landing gear
completely ripped clean by ripping the close tolerance mounting bolts in
tension, quite a sight. Nothing FWF touched the ground. We managed to get
the plane onto a crude trailer and back into my hangar without damaging it
further and prop the left side up on wing jacks (glad I had those!).
Just as we're getting it into the hangar my cell phone starts ringing and I
make the mistake of answering it... it's the FAA wanting to know what
happened. Great. So I proceeded to give them all the info. They asked me to
put all this in a statement and fax it to them, "Monday will be fine". At
this point we had it back home and stabilized in the hangar and I just
wanted to get away from the whole thing and think about it. The prospective
buyer, Peter, and my wife and I went out to dinner than night but I just
felt awful and wanted to crawl up in fetal position in the corner -- two
glasses of wine didn't help. Sunday wasn't much better but I forced myself
to do the FAA statement anyway. Today I had to work and am feeling a bit
better and have already spoken with both the insurance agent and adjuster. I
really don't know what my options are at this point but will spend the next
week or so with inspections and adjusters getting it sorted out. I'll try to
post something once I know what the final scenario is. Oh, he didn't buy the
plane. ;-)
I need to inspect it further to accurately assess the damage both for myself
and for the insurance company. I'll probably have someone from Van's do this
and then attempt to settle up with the insurance company. I do have full
coverage insurance with $80k hull coverage. Hmm, less than market value but
certainly better than nothing.
Guys, be careful out there!!
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 367 hours and not flying any more for awhile.
ps. here are a couple of pics of the ugliness...
http://www.rv-8.com/Pictures/DSCN0007med.jpg
http://www.rv-8.com/Pictures/DSCN0011.JPG
Message 50
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| Subject: | scratching my head |
--> RV-List message posted by: r miller <robertpmiller@comcast.net>
Hi Robert,
=A0
I tried posting this on the rv-list, but I had only been a lurker and
wasn't signed up yet.=A0 Even after signing up and getting confirmation
that I was approved, it still got kicked back.=A0=A0I hope this answers
your question.=A0 If you think it is worthy, please post this for me.=A0
Thanks, Eric U
=A0
I vaguely remembered from my undergrad aircraft design class that
different wing planforms have different stall characteristics.=A0 I also
vaguely remembered that the rectangular, no-taper wing had the best
stall characteristics, as they stalled from the root outward.=A0 This is
one of the reasons that Vans doesn't have washout in their wing
designs=A0(not necessary).=A0 It isn't as efficient as tapered=A0or
elliptical=A0wings, but there are other positives, like stall and ease of
manufacturing.=A0 I found the attached website when searching for the
"proof" of my old memories:
http://www.faatest.com/books/FLT/Chapter17/WingPlanform.htm.=A0 Read
the=A0second to last=A0paragraph in particular, while also noting the nice
pictures.
=A0
Hope this helps,
Eric=A0U
RV-9 emp=A0
=A0
=A0
Eric Uptagrafft
Message 51
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--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 2/2/2004 1:46:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rv4bell@door.net writes:
I don't
want any paint on the plate nut threads.
I give up...Why not?
GV (RV-6A N1GV flying 675 hrs)
Message 52
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| Subject: | ebay sleeze or double your money with van's preview sets do |
not archive. So am I a "righteous asshole?" I saw what looked like a manual
and preview plans for an RV4 on ebay, the description indicated that the plans
were for building so I queried the seller: "what serial#. Is this a set of
full sized plans or just a manual and preview plans?"
--> RV-List message posted by: r miller <robertpmiller@comcast.net>
do not archive. So am I a "righteous asshole?" I saw what looked like
a manual and preview plans for an RV4 on ebay, the description
indicated that the plans were for building so I queried the seller:
"what serial#. Is this a set of full sized plans or just a manual and
preview plans?"
he replied:
"There's no serial number since I did not purchase a kit. The plans are
all
on B size sheets and the construction manual. This is what you will
actually
use while building an RV-4 from scratch or from a kit."
so I asked (just to make sure):
"what is B size"
he replied:
"11 x 17"
so I said:
"I'm sorry to contradict you but what you have is a construction manual
and preview plans set. You are misrepresenting what you are selling.
The construction plans are D sized. What you are selling can be
purchased for 50 dollars from Van's. Don't your plans say "For preview
only. Not for construction." in a large light gray type face in the
middle of each sheet?"
he wrote back:
"The plans do not say: 'For preview only. Not for construction.'"
By this time the bidding was up at 46 dollars so I wrote the high
bidder and told him to look at www.vansaircraft.com. The manual
finally sold for 96 dollars so I wrote the seller this:
"Looks like you screwed some idiot out of $46."
I then send email to the people who bid over $50 telling them to look
at van's site.
The seller than wrote me:
"Thanks for your services warning everybody. You are quite a righteous
asshole.
Best Regards
Joshua"
Of course now I realize I have made a terrible mistake because I have
pointed a bunch of gullible nincompoops at vans site and they might
actually try to build airplanes. Oh, and I think he meant
self-righteous. I guess it just steams me that some grifter is lying
to my face about what I will "actually use while building..." when
van's airplanes have always been so honest. I mean it's cheaper to buy
aluminum from Van's than from AS or Wickes or Aircraft Aluminum.
Message 53
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Folks,
after setting the alignment in well over 1000 cars and a few to many
airplanes to factory specs I can assure you that a slight toe-in is more
stable than slight toe-out if there is any flex in the suspension system
along the lateral axis, ie wheel can track flexing inboard or outboard.
The toe out causes the wheel to want to track, and flex outwards until you
turn enough to side load the wheel inward, it then shifts suddenly to a new
track and tracks inwards quickly shifting the flex inboard from outboard,
then it gets stiff quickly and may rebound outwards if the turning load is
not great. This is a negatively static and negatively dynamic situation
which can quickly result in an overloaded condition in one oscillation.
In a three wheeled vehicle toe should be neutral to very slightly toe-in,
say 1/8 deg. In fact the only reason you want any toe in is to be sure you
don't have a slight toe out. Severe toe out is better than slight toe out as
it then takes a very sharp turn to get the wheel to shift track to an
inboard flexing load.
I would suspect that if folks are experiencing more stability with
additional toe out then they are actually going from a slight toe out to a
significant toe out, rather then from straight or toe in to toe out.
Also, steering inclination and castor greatly effect this. As the vehicle
turns the weight shifts to the outside wheel. This causes that side to
compress some, so it depends on how compression effects SI and castor and if
compression also causes a shift from toe in to toe out or vice-a-versa.
Different landing gear will have different effects so without seeing this
and studying it I can't speak to other systems.
The RV will flex back and slightly outwards as it compresses in the turn.
This shifts the outboard gear towards toe-in, so if it is already at toe-out
then the compression and the side loading will really force it to toe-in,
and its the shift that causes the wheel track to quickly divert. But the
force on the gear will translate into a lag in side loading as it shifts
then a sudden rapid increase in sideloading inwards to the center of the
turn thereby exacerbating the tendancy to ground loop.
Not sure if that makes sense to anybody as I've described it, but I can tell
you that most manufacturers shoot for toe in or straight rather than toe
out.
W
Message 54
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| Subject: | ebay sleeze or double your money with van's preview sets |
do not archive. So am I a "righteous asshole?" I saw what looked like a manual
and preview plans for an RV4 on ebay, the description indicated that the plans
were for building so I q
--> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster@flion.com>
Not all preview plans sets are marked like that, though I suspect all
RV-4, 6, and 6A sets are. Anyway, had it been me, I would have notified
both Vans and ebay. Vans so they could be alert to a possible
non-authorized builder and ebay because they might be able to track down
the seller and deal with him a little more thoroughly than you were able
to. Anyway, good for you. There's a lot of ebay scams out there, and
they need to be stopped.
Patrick Kelley
--> RV-List message posted by: r miller <robertpmiller@comcast.net>
do not archive. So am I a "righteous asshole?" I saw what looked like
a manual and preview plans for an RV4 on ebay, the description
indicated that the plans were for building so I queried the seller:
"what serial#. Is this a set of full sized plans or just a manual and
preview plans?"
he replied:
"There's no serial number since I did not purchase a kit. The plans are
all
on B size sheets and the construction manual. This is what you will
actually
use while building an RV-4 from scratch or from a kit."
so I asked (just to make sure):
"what is B size"
he replied:
"11 x 17"
so I said:
"I'm sorry to contradict you but what you have is a construction manual
and preview plans set. You are misrepresenting what you are selling.
The construction plans are D sized. What you are selling can be
purchased for 50 dollars from Van's. Don't your plans say "For preview
only. Not for construction." in a large light gray type face in the
middle of each sheet?"
he wrote back:
"The plans do not say: 'For preview only. Not for construction.'"
By this time the bidding was up at 46 dollars so I wrote the high
bidder and told him to look at www.vansaircraft.com. The manual
finally sold for 96 dollars so I wrote the seller this:
"Looks like you screwed some idiot out of $46."
I then send email to the people who bid over $50 telling them to look
at van's site.
The seller than wrote me:
"Thanks for your services warning everybody. You are quite a righteous
asshole.
Best Regards
Joshua"
Of course now I realize I have made a terrible mistake because I have
pointed a bunch of gullible nincompoops at vans site and they might
actually try to build airplanes. Oh, and I think he meant
self-righteous. I guess it just steams me that some grifter is lying
to my face about what I will "actually use while building..." when
van's airplanes have always been so honest. I mean it's cheaper to buy
aluminum from Van's than from AS or Wickes or Aircraft Aluminum.
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