Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:05 AM - Re: SPRAYLAT & unmask (J. R. Dial)
2. 04:40 AM - Dallas airports (Michel)
3. 05:52 AM - Another transponder check question... (Ken Balch)
4. 06:14 AM - Re: Dallas airports (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
5. 06:40 AM - Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? (P M Condon)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: Another transponder check question... (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
7. 07:20 AM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Darwin N. Barrie)
8. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
9. 07:33 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net)
10. 07:40 AM - This list is powerful and helpful. (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
11. 07:42 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (Bruce Gray)
12. 08:16 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (Cy Galley)
13. 08:16 AM - New StabCam! (Bill VonDane)
14. 08:44 AM - Re: New StabCam! (lucky macy)
15. 08:45 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (linn walters)
16. 08:48 AM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Tedd McHenry)
17. 09:05 AM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Bill Dube)
18. 09:17 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (Tedd McHenry)
19. 09:52 AM - Re: New StabCam! (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
20. 09:58 AM - Re: New StabCam! (Larry Bowen)
21. 10:02 AM - [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
22. 10:10 AM - (Ron Patterson)
23. 10:23 AM - Anybody out there? (Ron Patterson)
24. 10:26 AM - Re: New StabCam! (Bill VonDane)
25. 11:21 AM - Re: Transponder Checks (Mike Robertson)
26. 11:45 AM - Re: Dynon - Rethink Internal Battery (Jim and Bev Cone)
27. 01:02 PM - correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Bill Dube)
28. 01:11 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (RV8ter@aol.com)
29. 01:11 PM - Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (RV8ter@aol.com)
30. 01:34 PM - cutting aluminum with a hole saw (Jeff Cours)
31. 01:40 PM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... (Bill VonDane)
32. 02:04 PM - Re: cutting aluminum with a hole saw (Will & Lynda Allen)
33. 02:18 PM - Wing tip antennas (Leesafur@aol.com)
34. 02:19 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (Stein Bruch)
35. 02:20 PM - Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Bill Dube)
36. 02:35 PM - Re: Wing tip antennas (Alex Peterson)
37. 02:35 PM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Tedd McHenry)
38. 02:40 PM - Re: cutting aluminum with a hole saw (John Danielson)
39. 02:41 PM - Boston / New Hampshire Area RV'ers (Stein Bruch)
40. 02:47 PM - Re: cutting aluminum with a hole saw (Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG))
41. 02:49 PM - engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? (RV8ter@aol.com)
42. 02:52 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (Charles Becker)
43. 03:00 PM - Re: Another transponder check question... (RV6 Flyer)
44. 03:06 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (RV8ter@aol.com)
45. 03:22 PM - spewing fuel (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
46. 03:36 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Richard Tasker)
47. 03:59 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Tedd McHenry)
48. 04:20 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? (RV8ter@aol.com)
49. 04:20 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (Stein Bruch)
50. 04:30 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (lucky macy)
51. 04:53 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (Dana Overall)
52. 05:32 PM - Re: Another transponder check question... (Jerry Springer)
53. 05:39 PM - What is this engine worth? (Mark Schrimmer)
54. 05:39 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Richard Tasker)
55. 06:35 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (RV8ter@aol.com)
56. 07:12 PM - Compass Fluid, was Spraylat & Unmasked (Emrath)
57. 07:22 PM - Alt-Trak (Doug Rozendaal)
58. 07:24 PM - Fw: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... (Charlie Kuss)
59. 07:33 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? (James E. Clark)
60. 07:54 PM - Re: Wing tip antennas (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
61. 07:56 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG))
62. 09:46 PM - Attaching gear legs (Mike Holland)
63. 10:01 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Tedd McHenry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | SPRAYLAT & unmask |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
I missed some of this about SPRAYLAT, so what is the part
number, where do you get it and will it work on Plexiglas? I was
thinking of using it on the windshield to mask around where I seal the
fiberglass frame around the windshield. You can answer off list.
Thanks.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve dinieri
Subject: Re: RV-List: SPRAYLAT & unmask
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve dinieri" <capsteve@adelphia.net>
i had best results just smearing some regular dish soap on the thin
spraylat
and letting soak. it's water based like elmers glue so any moisture will
soften it given enough time. usually overnight then just wash off..
steve dinieri
rv6a N221RV
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
> You will find in the archives goo-gone is also a popular favorite. I
> used it all over mine and it worked great. Remember to get all that
> goo-gone oily stuff off the canopy after the tape removal. Give it a
> good cleaning.
>
> Mike Stewart
> Do not archive
>
==
==
==
==
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Michel" <rv8ter@rogers.com>
I am going to Simuflite in Dallas next week for a five day course and am
hoping the weather will cooperate and let me fly my 8. Any suggestion as to
the airport I should use as there sure is a choice.
I'm in London, Ontario, Canada
Michel
81117
176 hrs
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Another transponder check question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the
panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in
place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage
bulkhead, but I didn't... :-)
Regards,
Ken Balch
Clermont, FL
RV-8 N118KB
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dallas airports |
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Michel, I go to Simuflite also and we land at Arlington (GKY) since it is an
easy drive straight north on the interstate to the Simuflite area of hotels.
There are others that may be more convenient for the small aircraft. We like
staying on the North side of DFW....like the Harvey suites.
Good luck
Doug Preston
BHM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
The SWR you measured was a measure of the reflected RF energy along the coax
transmission line, basically the mismatch of the radiating element(antenna),
connector(s) & line. In theory, the RF is heating up (almost not preceivable) the
coax
(reflecting) and radiating out the active element(antena). Placement of the antenna
has
nothing to do with the SWR. Now, transmitted RF energy, once exited the antenna
has
lobes, patterns and field strengths of signal that may by biased based on location
of
the antenna. Shielding and masking of the signal from the rudder or stab will effect
radiated RF and produce blind spots. Remember this all theory. In school, after
all the
theory and lab exercises on optimal RF, transmission line theory and all that,
the
instrustor placed a ordinary potatoe masher on the test rig and the kitchen potatoe
masher radiated the RF energy with the same SWR and energy pattern and same line
loss as
the "real antenna". I imagine the reason the instructor did this was to show us
the
theory and practical side of electronics, in this case, was......well....not really
sure.
Time: 05:33:00 AM PST US
From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Top mounted antenna
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
While on this subject has anyone else ever tested the performance of an ELT
antenna mounted under the fiberglass fairing between the rudder and horizontal.
I made some measurements with my MFJ-259B antenna analyzer and found that,
when mounted there, there was an extremely high SWR and no resonance indicated.
(I am a ham operator.) Therefore, the antenna will radiate very poorly.
For that reason I am seriously considering putting the ELT antenna on the turtle
deck. When it is in the clear, the SWR measures about 1.5:1 which is
acceptable.
Does anyone know about how serious the additional drag would be?
In a message dated 2/15/04 11:25:50 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
sbuc@hiwaay.net writes:
> Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
> <snip>
> His question is whether anyone has had any experience with a
> >top mounted antenna mounted roughly halfway between the canopy and the
> >vertical fin. Specifically any RF interference with such an installation.
>
>
> The com antenna mounted on the turtle deck of my RV-6 has always worked
> very nicely for me.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6 545 hrs)
> http://thervjournal.com
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Another transponder check question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Yes it will cause it will have to be bench tested.
I had to make a harness to go from my Mencoder to their bench. I sold
the unit but still have the harness I think.
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Balch
Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question...
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the
panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in
place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage
bulkhead, but I didn't... :-)
Regards,
Ken Balch
Clermont, FL
RV-8 N118KB
==
==
==
==
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
I researched the Bombardier engine some time ago. As you note it will be
certified and they will not be selling to the experimental market.
Interestingly, a couple of months ago there was an article about the engine
in Kit Planes (I think) describing the engine. It seems the trend is going
toward the lower bore, higher RPM engine. They are smoother, more reliable,
run cooler and are more fuel efficient. Gee, sounds like a Subaru!!
Now with the Crossflow FWF package for the -10 and other models along with
all of the Eggenfellner engines the choices are widening.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: CrossFlow Subie engine
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> >
> > > I'm highly motivated to go non-Lycosaur for my RV10 and am seeking the
> >most
> > > bang for the buck, with the least amount of hassle-factor to install
it.
> >260
> > > hp minimum. Jury is still out on just where I'm going to get such an
> > > engine.
> >
> >The new Bombardier 220 HP or 300 HP engine might be the ticket for a -10,
> >if
> >it's ready in time for you.
> >
> >http://www.vaircraftengines.com/
> >
> >Tedd McHenry
> >Surrey, BC
>
> Great looking powerplant for sure. I seriously doubt it will be priced so
> that I can afford it, and I'm not sure if they're going to play with us
> experimental guys at all. At least not initially. I think they should
just
> give me one and let me fly it for a while. But I gotta finish the
airframe
> first!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51
>
> do not archive
>
> Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 2/17/04 9:41:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
pcondon@mitre.org writes:
>
> The SWR you measured was a measure of the reflected RF energy along the coax
> transmission line, basically the mismatch of the radiating element(antenna),
> connector(s) &line. In theory, the RF is heating up (almost not preceivable)
> the coax
> (reflecting) and radiating out the active element(antena). Placement of the
> antenna has
> nothing to do with the SWR. Now, transmitted RF energy, once exited the
> antenna has
> lobes, patterns and field strengths of signal that may by biased based on
> location of
> the antenna. Shielding and masking of the signal from the rudder or stab
> will effect
> radiated RF and produce blind spots. Remember this all theory. In school,
> after all the
> theory and lab exercises on optimal RF, transmission line theory and all
> that, the
> instrustor placed a ordinary potatoe masher on the test rig and the kitchen
> potatoe
> masher radiated the RF energy with the same SWR and energy pattern and same
> line loss as
> the "real antenna". I imagine the reason the instructor did this was to show
> us the
> theory and practical side of electronics, in this case, was......well....not
> really
> sure.
>
Hi P M and thanks for your reply,
I must disagree about the antenna placement having nothing to do with SWR.
Placing a lossy potato in the RF field can absorb a lot of power and not change
the SWR, but the area around the tailcone is probably not lossy for RF. The
placement of the antenna definitely changes SWR as shown by a simple
measurement of SWR by any of the instruments commonly used for that purpose. The
reason is that the antenna is detuned by the capacitance of the nearby grounded
surfaces. Although you are right about SWR not being the final determining
factor of the radiation efficiency of the antenna, it is a good indicator of
weather the antenna is working as designed. A field strength meter would be a
better instrument to use to prove whether the antenna is doing its job or not.
However, its a little hard to test antennas on 121.5 MHz without drawing a lot
of
attention from people trying to locate the emergency!
I know from experience with antennas that placing the antenna in the tailcone
as is being done simply will not work well at all.
Dan N766DH RV-7A almost finished
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) |
--> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net
I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have
these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd
if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on
getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are
"experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was
disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to
all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized.
My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this
then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical
information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad
or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily
available. Anyone else want this type of information?
Brian Kraut wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Kraut <engalt@earthlink.net>
>
>Can anyone tell me where I can get some CAD drawings of popular aircraft engines?
I am working on a design for a 4 place aircraft and I need some engine drawings
for my initial shape and sizing drawings. I would prefer 3D cad drawings,
but I have not been able to find and dimensioned drawings at all yet so I
will take whatever I can get for right now. I am in particular looking for a
TSIO-550 as a maximum size engine, but would like an O-360 and O-320 also.
>
>Brian Kraut
>engalt@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | This list is powerful and helpful. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
enormous!
As another example, one guy on this list asked for the Garmin 400/500
series installation manual which I posted up for him. 133 download
attempts. That to me is pretty cool and goes to underscore just how
useful this stuff really is. The numbers are very telling. And it is
clearly pretty cool to lots of others too. If you have not sent your
money in to Matt, and you are one of these clickers... well shame on
you.
I know it is not money raising time.... And I have neither met Matt,
nor even spoken to him. But clearly this list is a friendship to many
and we should thank him with the small token of appreciation he
deserves.
If you have never seen this web statistic info and would like to peek at
it. Go here for Febuary.
https://godspeed.lusis.org/stats/www.mstewart.net/usage_200402.html It
is quite interesting stuff. For example.. Dashboard painting is always
one of the highest search strings that gets folks into my site from a
search engine. Seems there are lots of people looking up how to paint
dashboards. Strange huh? Anyway. I hope you find this even a fraction as
interesting as I do.
And thanks be to Matt
Michael Stewart
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Engine drawings (Off topic) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Hard to do. The drawings are copyrighted by Lycoming and I doubt if they
would allow the EAA to reproduce at will.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic)
--> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net
I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have
these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd
if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on
getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are
"experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was
disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to
all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized.
My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this
then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical
information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad
or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily
available. Anyone else want this type of information?
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Many of the engine manuals have 3-views with dimensions. You could scan
these at high resolution, scale up and easily use them.
Incidentally I think that the 550 is a Continental, Lycomings is a 540.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic)
> --> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net
>
> I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have
> these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd
> if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on
> getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are
> "experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was
> disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to
> all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized.
> My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this
> then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical
> information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad
> or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily
> available. Anyone else want this type of information?
>
> Brian Kraut wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Kraut <engalt@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Can anyone tell me where I can get some CAD drawings of popular aircraft
engines? I am working on a design for a 4 place aircraft and I need some
engine drawings for my initial shape and sizing drawings. I would prefer 3D
cad drawings, but I have not been able to find and dimensioned drawings at
all yet so I will take whatever I can get for right now. I am in particular
looking for a TSIO-550 as a maximum size engine, but would like an O-360 and
O-320 also.
> >
> >Brian Kraut
> >engalt@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical stabilizer....
http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the lense
coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If you
can solve that one please update to the list.
lucky
>From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce
><vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RV-List: New StabCam!
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>
>I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical stabilizer....
>
>http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm
>
>
>-Bill VonDane
>EAA Tech Counselor
>RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
>www.vondane.com
>www.creativair.com
>www.epanelbuilder.com
>
>
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net
>
>I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have
>these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd
>if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on
>getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are
>"experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was
>disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to
>all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized.
>My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this
>then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical
>information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad
>or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily
>available. Anyone else want this type of information?
>
Well, there's probably a copyright problem with EAA becoming the
'reproducer' and selling them. Your best bet would be to see if the
Lycoming drawings fit your needs and purchas same directly. Some
plotters have scanning capability and there are programs to convert the
scanned drawing to a vector graphics file which is compatible with
Autocad. Having said that, I don't know anybody that does this. If I
remember correctly (and that's iffy) this started as a quest for
dimensional data so that engineering could be done correctly so cowl and
fuselage could be aerodynamically engineered. You might find out how
Van's designs their FWF kit and get some good info there. I suspect
that they just hang the engine out there with all accessories and
construct a PVC engine mount and then convert that to a steel mount.
Shaped foam is used to make a cowl and voila ...... the task is done.
Just another opinion .....
Linn
>
>Brian Kraut wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Kraut <engalt@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Can anyone tell me where I can get some CAD drawings of popular aircraft engines?
I am working on a design for a 4 place aircraft and I need some engine drawings
for my initial shape and sizing drawings. I would prefer 3D cad drawings,
but I have not been able to find and dimensioned drawings at all yet so I
will take whatever I can get for right now. I am in particular looking for a
TSIO-550 as a maximum size engine, but would like an O-360 and O-320 also.
>>
>>Brian Kraut
>>engalt@earthlink.net
>>
>>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Darwin N. Barrie wrote:
> I researched the Bombardier engine some time ago. As you note it will be
> certified and they will not be selling to the experimental market.
I don't know what their plans are, but they're testing it on a Murphy Moose,
which indicates at least a passing interest in the kitplane market.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 10:30 PM 2/16/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
>
>I have no first hand knowledge of the CF4-20 CrossFlow engine that someone
>posted a link to earlier but I did check out their specs on-line. Below
>is an excerpt from their document.
>Let's assume the HP rating is correct even though 180 HP sounds optimistic
>from a 125 cubic inch engine. They claim 7.5 GPH at 80% power. 80% of
>180 is 144 HP. 7.5 GPH is 45 lb per hr. 45 lb / 144 HP equals a BSFC of
>.3125 lb/hp/hr. This is better than most diesel engines and better than
>any gasoline engine I ever heard of.
>This might be a fine engine but is anybody buying these numbers?
I don't have aircraft conversion experience with Subaru engines,
but I do have automobile conversion experience with them.
I put a carburetted 1800 twin cam in my 1970 VW Campmobile. The
mileage went from 21 mpg to 27 mpg. I put an EFI turbo-charged 1800 twin
cam in my 1966 Karmann Ghia. The mileage in the Ghia went from 32 mpg to 40
mpg. The van would bury the speedometer easily and I could push the Ghia up
to 135 mph.
These were both 100% stock engines (with custom exhaust systems.)
Even driving these cars like a maniac, I would get great gas mileage. I
expect you would also get fantastic specific fuel consumption in an
aircraft conversion.
Even though I have a lot of experience with the Subaru engines, I
don't feel comfortable souping one up to 180 HP and expecting it to be
reliable. They are highly reliable when left stock in an auto application,
but asking one to run continuously at 180 HP makes me a bit nervous.
Keep in mind that I have no worries about running a Mazda rotary
at full HP in an airplane and plan to do so in my RV-7. It's a different
animal entirely.
PS
I don't still have both Subaru engines and the adapter stuff in
case anyone is interested.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net wrote:
> My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this
> then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical
> information to advance our cause.
As others have pointed out, there could be proprietary issues. It might be
better to approach Lycoming directly. I'm sure they're very interested in
supporting the kitplane market (look at the deals they give to Van's and
Lancair). DeltaHawk has 3D CAD models of their engine downloadable for free on
their web site. You might be able to talk Lycoming into doing the same thing.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Lucky & Bill,
Paul Stratman had a pretty wide view lens on his tail cam.
Link on my site here:
http://mstewart.net/michael/rv/teamrv/snf03/index.htm
First paragraph has a link to the 3mb movie where You will find an
in-trail roll and some formation passes and SnF03 with his wide lens.
Pretty neat view.
He could tell you which lens he has.
http://home.kc.rr.com/pauljana/
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky macy
Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam!
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the
lense
coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If
you
can solve that one please update to the list.
lucky
>From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce
><vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RV-List: New StabCam!
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>
>I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical
stabilizer....
>
>http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm
>
>
>-Bill VonDane
>EAA Tech Counselor
>RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
>www.vondane.com
>www.creativair.com
>www.epanelbuilder.com
>
>
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
==
==
==
==
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
The camera I'm using looks to have the same field of view as Bill's. I'm
not too concerned about it yet though. It looks too tight in the hanger,
but I'm hoping it will be just right in the air. I've seem wider FOV
lenses, and they can have the illusion of wearing coke-bottle glasses
inside a fishbowl - something I'd rather avoid.
I used shielded 20 AWG from the bullet cam to the camcorder (nice and
skinny), using Electric Bob's technique for putting the BNC end on. I
have some interference while transmitting too, but it's very dependant
upon where all the **test equipment and hook-ups** are laid out inside the
**metal building**. Again, I'm optimistic this problem will go away once
everything is hooked up "for real".
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 FWF
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
lucky macy said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
>
> cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the
> lense
> coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If
> you
> can solve that one please update to the list.
>
> lucky
>
>
>>From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce
>><vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
>>Subject: RV-List: New StabCam!
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>>
>>I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical
>> stabilizer....
>>
>>http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm
>>
>>
>>-Bill VonDane
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jim Cone <jimnbev@olypen.com>
Subject: Jim Cone's Canopy Installation Instructions
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.02.17.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 22
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Hello,
I've been doing alot of reading, but not much posting on these lists. Thought I'd
try getting involved a bit with fellow builders.
I'm writing to see if there are still guys building the RV-4? I just purchased
a new kit and started on it about January 1st, 04. Luckily I have a friend (Mark
Koenig) who is an experienced builder and is helping me (actually I'm helping
him). We're about to finish the empennage and I'm picking up the rest of the
kit next week if all goes well.
No doubt about it, this is the hard way to build an airplane. I now have alot of
respect for the guys that went before me who didn't have the benefit of the
refinements of the later kits (prepunch and quickbuilds). Getting these -3's and
4's to fly safe and straight is a real effort. Semms to me It needs to be a
labor of love or it won't likely come out right.
Recently I was in Missoula MT and had the opportunity of meeting Art Chard at his
shop in Stevensville. I learned alot about the evolution of the RV series and
his part in the design and building of them. Nice man. Built 47 airplanes so
far! Was in the midle of an F-1 when I was there in December.
Seems to me it's too bad Van wouldn't put this kit out in a prepunched version.
I still feel it's his best design. I've spoken to a couple of folks at the factory
and it seems the cost of reverse engineering the kit would be large and
the market for the -3 and -4 pretty small. Wouldn't make a good business decision.
If you have built, or you are currently building a -3 or a -4, drop a note about
your experience. Would be good to hear about 'how they used to do it' and how
some of us are still at it.
Ron Patterson
N8ZD reserved
Northern California
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Anybody out there? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Hello,
I've been doing alot of reading, but not much posting on these lists. Thought I'd
try getting involved a bit with fellow builders.
I'm writing to see if there are still guys building the RV-4? I just purchased
a new kit and started on it about January 1st, 04. Luckily I have a friend (Mark
Koenig) who is an experienced builder and is helping me (actually I'm helping
him). We're about to finish the empennage and I'm picking up the rest of the
kit next week if all goes well.
No doubt about it, this is the hard way to build an airplane. I now have alot of
respect for the guys that went before me who didn't have the benefit of the
refinements of the later kits (prepunch and quickbuilds). Getting these -3's and
4's to fly safe and straight is a real effort. Semms to me It needs to be a
labor of love or it won't likely come out right.
Recently I was in Missoula MT and had the opportunity of meeting Art Chard at his
shop in Stevensville. I learned alot about the evolution of the RV series and
his part in the design and building of them. Nice man. Built 47 airplanes so
far! Was in the midle of an F-1 when I was there in December.
Seems to me it's too bad Van wouldn't put this kit out in a prepunched version.
I still feel it's his best design. I've spoken to a couple of folks at the factory
and it seems the cost of reverse engineering the kit would be large and
the market for the -3 and -4 pretty small. Wouldn't make a good business decision.
If you have built, or you are currently building a -3 or a -4, drop a note about
your experience. Would be good to hear about 'how they used to do it' and how
some of us are still at it.
Ron Patterson
N8ZD reserved
Northern California
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: New StabCam! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I like that view better I think... I am going to see if I can get a wider
angle lens...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam!
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
Lucky & Bill,
Paul Stratman had a pretty wide view lens on his tail cam.
Link on my site here:
http://mstewart.net/michael/rv/teamrv/snf03/index.htm
First paragraph has a link to the 3mb movie where You will find an
in-trail roll and some formation passes and SnF03 with his wide lens.
Pretty neat view.
He could tell you which lens he has.
http://home.kc.rr.com/pauljana/
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky macy
Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam!
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the
lense
coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If
you
can solve that one please update to the list.
lucky
>From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce
><vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RV-List: New StabCam!
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>
>I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical
stabilizer....
>
>http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm
>
>
>-Bill VonDane
>EAA Tech Counselor
>RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
>www.vondane.com
>www.creativair.com
>www.epanelbuilder.com
>
>
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
==
==
==
==
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Transponder Checks |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
It Does if it needs to be adjusted. I would seriously suggest that you have
your locla radio shop conduct a bench check on the unit prior to installing
it. Then he will just be able to hook up to everything on the aircraft and
finish the inspection.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Transponder Checks
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:46:45 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>Does adjusting the encoder integrated into the Dynon present any special
>challenges?
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry@BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bill@vondane.com]
> > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 3:33 PM
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Transponder Checks
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
> >
> > I just helped out our local Transponder Certifier Guy here
> > with an -8, and there are some very specialized tools he had
> > for setting the encoder, and checking the pitot and static systems...
> >
> > We had to adjust both the high and low pots on the
> > encoder.....and you need to set these with the encoder
> > thinking that it is actually at the high and low altitudes,
> > so you need another machine that fools the encoder via the
> > static port...
> >
> > He charges $200, but he checks everything, is very exact in
> > his encoder settings, and if something is wrong he will let
> > you fix it right there while he's doing the tests...
> >
> > Oh, and he's building an RV-4...
> >
> > -Bill VonDane
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> > www.vondane.com
> > www.creativair.com
> > www.epanelbuilder.com
> >
> >
> > ============
> > Matronics Forums.
> > ============
> > ============
> > ============
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon - Rethink Internal Battery |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim and Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
Another possibility is to not get the internal battery and install a backup battery
and a diode hooked up to a CB switch so that the battery is constantly charged
but will automatically pick up the load if the voltage drops by .5 volts.
This setup is described on Blue Mountain Avionics' site. I have it for my
EFIS One. This is also cheaper than the internal battery.
Jim Cone
3 peat offender
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
>
>PS
>
> I don't still have both Subaru engines and the adapter stuff in
>case anyone is interested.
I meant to say "I DO still have the engines...."
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: This list is powerful and helpful. |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
production of your engine.
A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
of your first payment
The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine
onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
working properly.
Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mstewart@iss.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
enormous!
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
what engines? the 2.5L Egg engine?
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | cutting aluminum with a hole saw |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <rv-j@moriarti.org>
Hi, everyone -
I'm almost ready to cut the lightening holes in the spar stiffener for a
7A's vertical stabilizer. Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and
I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) , my current
plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of
cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless
screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. I'm
pretty new to working in metal. Do any of you experienced folks see any
problems with this plan? Otherwise, I'll just give 'er a try and see
what happens.
thanks,
Jeff C.
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... |
vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
The filters I have in the wing roots of my -8A only have screens in them...
I have cleaned them maybe 3 times in 21 months, and they never had much in
them... Just looks like a little fuzz...
The filters are from Earl's, part number 230208:
http://www.amstreetrod.com/html/fuel-oil-filters.html
Here are some photos of my installation:
http://vondane.com/rv8a/finish/finish8.htm
I am going to be cleaning then here this week and I will take some photos...
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
By the way... I have added a new Aircraft / Engine Pre-Heater to my
CreativAir product line:
http://www.creativair.com/ex-heat/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Rhodes" <lezdriver@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen....
Hi Charles,
It's a great "debate" subject and I agree with what
you've said here. My safety concern is around the
potential use of an auto style fuel filter by a
builder who may not appreciate the difference between
an auto and aircraft application.
Thanks for the feedback on clearing that up.
Happy tailwinds!
Mike
Message 32
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| Subject: | cutting aluminum with a hole saw |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool@comcast.net>
I cut lightening holes in spacers for my wings almost the same way and it
worked fine. I used the bi-metal hole saws with an electric plug in drill (I
didn't know if my cordless would be powerful enough). I did find that it
works better if you drill the pilot hole first with a separate bit and then
use the hole cutter and pilot drill together to finish the hole. Using
Boelube worked awesome as the lubricant and I swear by this stuff.
I will add though, since getting a drill press, it's much nicer drilling
these holes and if you're going to get one anyway eventually, you may as
well get one now.
-Will Allen
North Bend, Wa
RV8 wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Cours
Subject: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <rv-j@moriarti.org>
Hi, everyone -
I'm almost ready to cut the lightening holes in the spar stiffener for a
7A's vertical stabilizer. Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and
I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) , my current
plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of
cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless
screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. I'm
pretty new to working in metal. Do any of you experienced folks see any
problems with this plan? Otherwise, I'll just give 'er a try and see
what happens.
thanks,
Jeff C.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Wing tip antennas |
--> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com
I'm thinking of going with the Archer Model 1 wing tip antenna. Does
anybody know first hand If it will fit the RV-3 wing tip also can a guy get away
with a strobe light mounted in the same tip?
Thanks
Lee
Anoka, MN
RV-3 Wing
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: This list is powerful and helpful. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hmmmm..
If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! Yikes...
Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra $7k
buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the Lycosaur,
maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, then
we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! I'd
rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel,
etc...
Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming more
popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto conversions
is cost.
But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll leave
it at that!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: RV8ter@aol.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>
>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>
>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>production of your engine.
>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>of your first payment
>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine
>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>working properly.
>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>
>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>enormous!
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 04:11 PM 2/17/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>what engines? the 2.5L Egg engine?
Stock 1800 Subaru twin cam (1.8 L) engines. One is a turbo-charged
electronic fuel injection engine. The other is a non-turbo carburetor
engine. Complete power plants with alternators, fuel pumps, ignition coils,
and all electronics, relays, etc. Only one VW-Subaru adapter plate, clutch,
and flywheel, however.
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Wing tip antennas |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> I'm thinking of going with the Archer Model 1 wing tip
> antenna. Does
> anybody know first hand If it will fit the RV-3 wing tip also
> can a guy get away
> with a strobe light mounted in the same tip?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Lee
> Anoka, MN
> RV-3 Wing
Lee, is it a com antenna? If so, even by Bob Archer's admission, it
isn't very good. One of the -7A's in town has one, and he going to
switch to a whip on the fuse.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 438 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: CrossFlow Subie engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Dube wrote:
> Even though I have a lot of experience with the Subaru engines, I
> don't feel comfortable souping one up to 180 HP and expecting it to be
> reliable. They are highly reliable when left stock in an auto application,
> but asking one to run continuously at 180 HP makes me a bit nervous.
I agree. Eggenfellner is getting excellent results with his Subarus, which are
essentially dead stock (except for a slightly re-tuned intake maniflod).
They're good for 165 HP maximum, with about 105 HP available for cruise at
8,000 feet. Charlie Walker has about 450 hours on his, in a Glastar, and has
not yet used any oil. Wear is negligible.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | cutting aluminum with a hole saw |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
I DON'T REALLY SEE APROBLEM WITH THAT APPORACH.
Get yourself A DRILL PRESS, EVEN A BENCH TOP UNIT CAN DO 99% OF THE WORK
YOU NEED.
John L. Danielson
307-266-2524
johnd@wlcwyo.com
WLC, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Cours
Subject: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <rv-j@moriarti.org>
Hi, everyone -
I'm almost ready to cut the lightening holes in the spar stiffener for a
7A's vertical stabilizer. Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and
I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) , my current
plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of
cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless
screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. I'm
pretty new to working in metal. Do any of you experienced folks see any
problems with this plan? Otherwise, I'll just give 'er a try and see
what happens.
thanks,
Jeff C.
==
==
==
==
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Boston / New Hampshire Area RV'ers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi All,
Due to a business trip this week, I'm finding myself in Boston over the coming
weekend with no plans and was wondering if there are any RV'ers around (or within
a decent drive) of Boston, that might like some free help riveting, wiring,etc..
or need a co-pilot on Saturday or Sunday?!?!
You can contact me off list if you like!
Thanks,
Stein Bruch
Do Not Archive
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | cutting aluminum with a hole saw |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" <F.vanderHulst@ucol.ac.nz>
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <rv-j@moriarti.org>
> Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and
> I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-)
Very wise... a fly cutter in a hand-held drill would be *very*
dangerous. It's dangerous enough in a drill press!
> , my current
> plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit
of
> cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a
cordless
> screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary.
Yup, sounds fine to me. I've cut many lightening holes this way. Make
sure you clamp that metal down really well, and go slowly at the cut.
Alternatively, if you have a jigsaw/sabre saw, you could use that. But
it's difficult to get a nice round hole.
Frank
Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online
at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL
(0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information
and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of
Learning.
Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your
future
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
Stein,
The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor
comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here.
Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock
cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's
an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from
Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop
at
5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end
engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go
higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs
well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually
require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should
be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know.
I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to
know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already
ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned
for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming),
fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel
design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price), etc.
I love this process!
Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting
here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes
that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all
still goes per their wish.
What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going
to end up doing?
If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I
could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured,
I
think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and
fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky,
despite the name.
Only in America!
off the box,
Lucky
In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hmmmm..
If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that
extra
$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00,
then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference!
I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the
panel, etc...
Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming
more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto
conversions is cost.
But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll
leave it at that!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: RV8ter@aol.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>
>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>
>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>production of your engine.
>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>of your first payment
>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine
>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>working properly.
>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>
>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>enormous!
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | This list is powerful and helpful. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Becker" <ctbecker@charter.net>
Yes, but I believe that is a full firewall forward kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hmmmm..
If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K,
that extra $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around
$3.00, then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that
difference! I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop,
gadgets for the panel, etc...
Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming
more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen
auto conversions is cost.
But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll
leave it at that!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: RV8ter@aol.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>
>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>
>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>production of your engine.
>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>of your first payment
>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your
engine
>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>working properly.
>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>
>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>enormous!
>
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Another transponder check question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
The RMI MicroEncoder can be adjusted from the front panel if it needs it.
The only way you will need to pull the unit out is if it is broken and needs
a part inside replaced.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,438 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question...
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the
panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in
place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage
bulkhead, but I didn't... :-)
Regards,
Ken Balch
Clermont, FL
RV-8 N118KB
Say good-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial
offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: This list is powerful and helpful. |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
it is.
In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ctbecker@charter.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Becker" <ctbecker@charter.net>
Yes, but I believe that is a full firewall forward kit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hmmmm..
If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K,
that extra $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around
$3.00, then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that
difference! I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop,
gadgets for the panel, etc...
Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming
more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen
auto conversions is cost.
But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll
leave it at that!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: RV8ter@aol.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>
>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>
>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>production of your engine.
>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>of your first payment
>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your
engine
>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>working properly.
>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>
>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>enormous!
>
>
Message 45
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
I've heard about this, but but have never seen or believed its intensity.
Climbing out yesterday at about 100 kts, I looked over at the right wing and
fuel was literally gushing out of the fuel cap. Almost like there was no
cap at all and the tank was upside down. OK time to land. The stream
minimized as I leveled off and then almost down to nothing as I reduced
power and settled into a normal approach. (less lift, less low pressure
sucking the fuel out of the tank) After landing I checked the cap. It was
on as tightly as always and the big O-ring looked fine. Perhaps the smaller
O-ring broke. Perhaps the plastic washer broke, Perhaps the big O-ring just
got too hard to hold fuel. Either way, they're 12 years old, so both
O-rings on both tanks are getting replaced, and the plastic washers are
getting replaced with stainless steel ones per Van's notice last year.
The tank was about 3/4 full, and I estimate I lost over a gallon of fuel to
the leak in no more than 2 minutes from takeoff up through about 1500'.
I'm not sure what caused the leak yet, but I do know it can't be too big of
a hole. At least nothing you'd ever expect that much gas to be pouring
through.
Andy
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices |
for once?
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it
is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a
few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.)
but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no
cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is
closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose
clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.)
With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to
install everything before anything runs.
And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg
Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the
Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to
apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the
supercharger.
Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day
now :-)
RV9A #90573
RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>Stein,
>The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor
>comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here.
>Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock
>cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's
>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
>Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
>
>vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from
>Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop
at
>5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end
>engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go
>higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs
>well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually
>require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should
>be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know.
>
>I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to
>know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already
>ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned
> for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming),
>fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel
>design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price),
etc.
>
>I love this process!
>
>Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting
>here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes
>that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all
>still goes per their wish.
>
>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going
>to end up doing?
>
>If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I
>could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured,
I
>think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and
>fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky,
>despite the name.
>
>Only in America!
>
>off the box,
>Lucky
>
>
>In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>stein@steinair.com writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>Hmmmm..
>
>If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
>Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that
extra
>$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
>
>Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
>Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00,
>then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference!
>I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the
>panel, etc...
>
>Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming
>more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto
>conversions is cost.
>
>But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll
>leave it at that!
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>RV6's, Minneapolis
>
>http://www.steinair.com
>
>Do Not Archive
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: RV8ter@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>>
>>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>>
>>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>>
>>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>>production of your engine.
>>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>>of your first payment
>>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine
>>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>>working properly.
>>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>>
>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
>><mstewart@iss.net>
>>
>>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>>enormous!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices |
for once?
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
> But it's
> an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
> Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
I've flown the Eggenfellner with the Quinte electric CS prop. It's a very nice
combination. It would be nice to have the option of "conventional" CS prop,
but the Quinte does work well. (I think it uses Warp Drive blades, but don't
qoute me on that. Apparently, there's no problem with the carbon blades on a
geared engine like the Eggenfellner, because of the smaller impulses and
different frequency.)
> What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going
> to end up doing?
I got a very good deal on a used Lycoming, which I will probably send to Bart
at Aerosport. That's Plan A. But I'm keeping my eye on all the options. I
was very keen on the rotary for a while, but it's still in the "roll your own"
stage, and I don't want to do that just yet. Maybe my next plane. (I can hear
the laughter from here.) The Eggenfellner is the best package out there right
now, but I feel it's a tiny bit small for an RV-6. It's also more money than
my rebuilt Lycoming will be (although maybe not, when all the bells and
whistles are added).
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
do not archive
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for |
once?
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
I haven't seen a HP per alt graph yet w/o the supercharger on the XT (in
fact, I'm not sure I've seen one with it on) and would that change the MT prop
setup (doubtful, I think).
The thing with the Egg is I have yet to see one on a RV 8 and everytime I see
it undressed I wonder how it would fit in the front half of a RV 8 cowl. So
I don't buy into that bolt it on and go crap yet. I think that's yet to be
seen on the 8. Hope it is though.
Someday, someone with more time and smarts than me is going to put together a
comprehensive, side by side, THOROUGH analysis of different RV friendly
engines out there and include things like cowl options (Crossflow told me that
are
going to make and sell RV specific cowl solutions for example) and one can
only hope there's a LOT of different types to consider.
There's a worthy cause. Anyone up to it?
lucky
In a message dated 2/17/2004 6:37:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
retasker@optonline.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it
is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a
few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.)
but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no
cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is
closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose
clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.)
With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to
install everything before anything runs.
And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg
Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the
Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to
apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the
supercharger.
Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day
now :-)
RV9A #90573
RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>Stein,
>The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor
>comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory
here.
>Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock
>cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But
it's
>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
>Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
>
>vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from
>Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS
prop at
>5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end
>engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you
go
>higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only
runs
>well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually
>require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But
should
>be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know.
>
>I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing
to
>know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already
>ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I
planned
> for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming),
>fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel
>design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru
price), etc.
>
>I love this process!
>
>Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting
>here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes,
makes
>that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if
all
>still goes per their wish.
>
>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going
>to end up doing?
>
>If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I
>could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines
matured, I
>think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install
and
>fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky,
>despite the name.
>
>Only in America!
>
>off the box,
>Lucky
>
>
>In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>stein@steinair.com writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>Hmmmm..
>
>If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
>Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K,
that extra
>$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
>
>Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
>Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around
$3.00,
>then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that
difference!
>I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for
the
>panel, etc...
>
>Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming
>more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen
auto
>conversions is cost.
>
>But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll
>leave it at that!
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>RV6's, Minneapolis
>
>http://www.steinair.com
>
>Do Not Archive
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: RV8ter@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>>
>>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>>
>>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>>
>>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>>production of your engine.
>>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>>of your first payment
>>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your
engine
>>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>>working properly.
>>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>>
>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
>><mstewart@iss.net>
>>
>>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>>enormous!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor |
once?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I should have know better than to get involved in this issue!!
Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just plain cost.
I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in the air!
That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a $38,000.00 pill
for an engine.....
Consider this, I built my recently complete RV6 (2nd one) for less than $30,0000.00
TOTAL, and that's with a 0SMOH O-320 (built myself), nice panel (with a Dynon),
full interior, and good paint....
I agree the subies/rotaries are superior in many ways, in fact I think I've nearly
convinced my Dad/Brother to put an Egg Subie on their RV9 that they are building.
People like Jan Eggenfellner and Tracy Cook are doing wonders for this
market, and it can only get better. I'm rather ambivolent about it, and I'm
open minded enough to see both sides of the discussion, and don't have a firm
position on either side of the fence. If and when I have enough money to purchase
anything brand new, I'd be hard pressed to make a decision either way....you
see, at the moment I keep a close eye on resale values and insurance costs
(since I'll probably build and sell several of these over my lifetime)!
Anyway, it's nice to see a spirited discussion with a lot of pro-active people.
That's what makes this community such a great bunch of people!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
http://www.steinair.com
Oh, and I've need to learn not to argue with people who've been very good customers
of mine :)
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it
>is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a
>few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.)
>but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no
>cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is
>closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose
>clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.)
>
>With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to
>install everything before anything runs.
>
>And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg
>Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the
>Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to
>apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the
>supercharger.
>
>Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day
>now :-)
>RV9A #90573
>
>RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>>
>>Stein,
>>The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor
>>comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here.
>>Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock
>>cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's
>>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
>>Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
>>
>>vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from
>>Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop
at
>>5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end
>>engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go
>>higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs
>>well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually
>>require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should
>>be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know.
>>
>>I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to
>>know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already
>>ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned
>> for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming),
>>fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel
>>design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price),
etc.
>>
>>I love this process!
>>
>>Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting
>>here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes
>>that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all
>>still goes per their wish.
>>
>>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going
>>to end up doing?
>>
>>If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I
>>could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured,
I
>>think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and
>>fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky,
>>despite the name.
>>
>>Only in America!
>>
>>off the box,
>>Lucky
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>>stein@steinair.com writes:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>>
>>Hmmmm..
>>
>>If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
>>Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that
extra
>>$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
>>
>>Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
>>Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00,
>>then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference!
>>I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the
>>panel, etc...
>>
>>Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming
>>more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto
>>conversions is cost.
>>
>>But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll
>>leave it at that!
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Stein Bruch
>>RV6's, Minneapolis
>>
>>http://www.steinair.com
>>
>>Do Not Archive
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: RV8ter@aol.com
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>>>
>>>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight
>>>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new
>>>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
>>>
>>>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead.
>>>
>>>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
>>>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
>>>production of your engine.
>>>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date
>>>of your first payment
>>>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine
>>>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
>>>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional
>>>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
>>>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine
>>>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
>>>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as
>>>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
>>>working properly.
>>>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
>>>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
>>>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
>>>
>>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>>>mstewart@iss.net writes:
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
>>><mstewart@iss.net>
>>>
>>>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
>>>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
>>>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
>>>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
>>>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
>>>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
>>>enormous!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor |
once?
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
Less than $30K. In this day and age? You ARE the man - or a magician. I
can't imagine that. Even the seats and belts are over a grand! The Dynon is
a decent percentage of your plane. Cool.
As an engineer, I'm the last person I want building my own engine :-)
That's be sort of like a Dr. self medicating plus my wife probably wouldn't
fly in it for quite a while. Ooops, that could be a plus. Better rethink.
;-)
Seriously, putting an engine together sounds more fun than the airframe has
generally been. How'd you do it?
lucky
>From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have
>choicesfor once?
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:20:16 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>I should have know better than to get involved in this issue!!
>
>Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just
>plain cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in
>the air! That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a
>$38,000.00 pill for an engine.....
>
>Consider this, I built my recently complete RV6 (2nd one) for less than
>$30,0000.00 TOTAL, and that's with a 0SMOH O-320 (built myself), nice panel
>(with a Dynon), full interior, and good paint....
>
>I agree the subies/rotaries are superior in many ways, in fact I think I've
>nearly convinced my Dad/Brother to put an Egg Subie on their RV9 that they
>are building. People like Jan Eggenfellner and Tracy Cook are doing wonders
>for this market, and it can only get better. I'm rather ambivolent about
>it, and I'm open minded enough to see both sides of the discussion, and
>don't have a firm position on either side of the fence. If and when I have
>enough money to purchase anything brand new, I'd be hard pressed to make a
>decision either way....you see, at the moment I keep a close eye on resale
>values and insurance costs (since I'll probably build and sell several of
>these over my lifetime)!
>
>Anyway, it's nice to see a spirited discussion with a lot of pro-active
>people. That's what makes this community such a great bunch of people!
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>
>http://www.steinair.com
>
>Oh, and I've need to learn not to argue with people who've been very good
>customers of mine :)
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:35:30 -0500
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
> >
> >Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it
> >is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a
> >few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.)
> >but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no
> >cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is
> >closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose
> >clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.)
> >
> >With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to
> >install everything before anything runs.
> >
> >And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg
> >Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the
> >Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to
> >apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the
> >supercharger.
> >
> >Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day
> >now :-)
> >RV9A #90573
> >
> >RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
> >>
> >>Stein,
> >>The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine
>monitor
> >>comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from
>memory here.
> >>Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't
>shock
> >>cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc.
>But it's
> >>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
> >>Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
> >>
> >>vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from
> >>Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell
>CS prop at
> >>5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low
>end
> >>engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as
>you go
> >>higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really
>only runs
> >>well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will
>eventually
> >>require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But
>should
> >>be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know.
> >>
> >>I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage
>needing to
> >>know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have
>already
> >>ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo
>I planned
> >> for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a
>lycoming),
> >>fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore
>panel
> >>design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru
>price), etc.
> >>
> >>I love this process!
> >>
> >>Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier
>getting
> >>here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes,
>makes
> >>that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's
>if all
> >>still goes per their wish.
> >>
> >>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually
>going
> >>to end up doing?
> >>
> >>If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought
>I
> >>could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines
>matured, I
> >>think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can
>install and
> >>fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT
>lucky,
> >>despite the name.
> >>
> >>Only in America!
> >>
> >>off the box,
> >>Lucky
> >>
> >>
> >>In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >>stein@steinair.com writes:
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
> >>
> >>Hmmmm..
> >>
> >>If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
> >>Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for
>$25K, that extra
> >>$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
> >>
> >>Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the
> >>Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas
>around $3.00,
> >>then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that
>difference!
> >>I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets
>for the
> >>panel, etc...
> >>
> >>Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries
>becoming
> >>more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally
>chosen auto
> >>conversions is cost.
> >>
> >>But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it
>is...we'll
> >>leave it at that!
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Stein Bruch
> >>RV6's, Minneapolis
> >>
> >>http://www.steinair.com
> >>
> >>Do Not Archive
> >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> >>From: RV8ter@aol.com
> >>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
> >>>
> >>>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted
>flight
> >>>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the
>new
> >>>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost.
> >>>
> >>>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it
>instead.
> >>>
> >>>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00.
> >>>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the
> >>>production of your engine.
> >>>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the
>date
> >>>of your first payment
> >>>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your
>engine
> >>>and prior to the shipping of it to your location.
> >>>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and
>professional
> >>>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our
> >>>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your
>engine
> >>>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you
> >>>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well
>as
> >>>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is
> >>>working properly.
> >>>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00
> >>>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75
> >>>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00
> >>>
> >>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >>>mstewart@iss.net writes:
> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
> >>><mstewart@iss.net>
> >>>
> >>>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based
> >>>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and
> >>>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by
> >>>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky
> >>>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400
> >>>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's
> >>>enormous!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor |
once?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just
plain
cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in the
air!
That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a $38,000.00
pill for an engine.....
Hey, don't include us rotary heads in the 30K figure. As far as money goes,
we've been relegated to the back 40 with the rest of the low lifes:-)
Fuel injected 13B, 180+HP, gold powder coated, custom made but bought engine
mount to fit my 7, drive unit, overhaul kit, two 0 tolerance end housing,
computerized engine control, wood or metal prop, rads, totally
installed..............I'm shooting for $9500 complete!! Not just the
engine, we're talking fire it up on the airplane.
No valves, no cam, no rods, no lifters.......................I'll have it at
the flyin on the 28th.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer!
http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another transponder check question... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Mine didn't they checked everything right in the airplane.
Jerry
do not archive
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Yes it will cause it will have to be bench tested.
>I had to make a harness to go from my Mencoder to their bench. I sold
>the unit but still have the harness I think.
>Mike
>Do not archive.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Balch
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question...
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
>
>Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the
>panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in
>
>place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage
>bulkhead, but I didn't... :-)
>
>Regards,
>Ken Balch
>Clermont, FL
>RV-8 N118KB
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
>
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | What is this engine worth? |
RV-9 List <rv9-list@matronics.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer <mschrimmer@pacbell.net>
Anybody care to guess what this engine is worth? The seller and I are trying
to determine a fair price. Here are the details . . .
Lycoming 0-320-E2D
150 h.p.
Two cylinders in the 60s, two in the mid 70s
Uses about 1 quart of oil every 10 hours
Approximately 3,400 hours total time
Approximately 1,200 hours since overhaul by an A&P
Comes with a MA4-SPA carb with metal float
Comes with a 149 tooth starter ring
Uses an oil screen, not a filter
Oil changed every 25 hours since overhaul
All ADs complied with
The present owner is going to re-use the accessories on his new engine, so
the magnetos, starter, alternator, vacuum pump, oil cooler, etc. are not
included.
Thanks,
Mark
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices |
for once?
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
You might want to take a look at the web site before you decide that is
"a tiny bit small for an RV-6". I believe that the 2.5XT will
outperform the Lyc 360.
www.eggenfellneraircraft.com
Dick Tasker. RV9A #90573
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
>On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 RV8ter@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>But it's
>>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to
>>Crossflow. What do you think of that value?
>>
>>
>
>I've flown the Eggenfellner with the Quinte electric CS prop. It's a very nice
>combination. It would be nice to have the option of "conventional" CS prop,
>but the Quinte does work well. (I think it uses Warp Drive blades, but don't
>qoute me on that. Apparently, there's no problem with the carbon blades on a
>geared engine like the Eggenfellner, because of the smaller impulses and
>different frequency.)
>
>
>
>>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going
>>to end up doing?
>>
>>
>
>I got a very good deal on a used Lycoming, which I will probably send to Bart
>at Aerosport. That's Plan A. But I'm keeping my eye on all the options. I
>was very keen on the rotary for a while, but it's still in the "roll your own"
>stage, and I don't want to do that just yet. Maybe my next plane. (I can hear
>the laughter from here.) The Eggenfellner is the best package out there right
>now, but I feel it's a tiny bit small for an RV-6. It's also more money than
>my rebuilt Lycoming will be (although maybe not, when all the bells and
>whistles are added).
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Surrey, BC
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor |
once?
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
180 HP? How do you know since it's going to be your own make? Can they burn
100LL and mogas?
And what's the average person really going to have in one when they are done?
Can the PRSUs be adapted for CS props, etc?
How do they rate compared to the Subaru 2.5 XT head to head? That would be
interesting.
They may not have some components you mention but I recall from the 80s when
a friend had an early rx7 that they did have some kind of main seal or
something unique that did need regular checkup and occasional replacing that was
a
royal pain to do.
How do the rotary guys who have to roll their own figure out what to do
safely enough?
I mean, the engine is where I generally feel the least compelled to be
"experimental" so I love lycomings in that sense. I don't even look at Rotarys
because of the lack of a FWF package. Are all the components and a specific
enough set of instructions available so that if you did all the purchasing yourself
there's at least some good guidance? Are all the components needed that are
unique premade and avaialable and it's just a matter of finding the
appropriate vendor?
Sounds interesting. Hope it works out!
In a message dated 2/17/2004 7:54:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just
plain
cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in the
air!
That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a $38,000.00
pill for an engine.....
Hey, don't include us rotary heads in the 30K figure. As far as money goes,
we've been relegated to the back 40 with the rest of the low lifes:-)
Fuel injected 13B, 180+HP, gold powder coated, custom made but bought engine
mount to fit my 7, drive unit, overhaul kit, two 0 tolerance end housing,
computerized engine control, wood or metal prop, rads, totally
installed..............I'm shooting for $9500 complete!! Not just the
engine, we're talking fire it up on the airplane.
No valves, no cam, no rods, no lifters.......................I'll have it at
the flyin on the 28th.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer!
Message 56
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|
| Subject: | Compass Fluid, was Spraylat & Unmasked |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
I've also heard that baby oil works in place of Kerosene for refilling
compasses, but I've not tried this.
Marty RV-6A NOT almost done
Time: 07:01:36 PM PST US
From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: SPRAYLAT & unmask
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Instead of kerosene, use my wife's favorite solvent -- lamp oil. It has no
smell and other than that, I think it is just like kerosene.
I used lamp oil for compass fluid in rebuilding an old compass I got at a
fly
mart -- much cheaper than A/C Spruce. There was a compass factory near here
where my Mom worked, and kerosene was what they used for compass fluid. Ah,
I
got off the topic!
Dan RV-7A N766DH almost done
Message 57
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
I finally got around to installing my Alt-Trak that I bought right after OSH
before the price increase.
You builders will giggle when I say I was intimidated by what "I" percieved
to be a daunting task....... But I did it and it works!!!!!
Actually it works GREAT!! My installation is an insult to the beautiful
craftsmanship in my airplane, but I was satisified with the way it turned
out and my mistakes are not visible without disassembly.
As I was putting the baggage compartment back together it occured to me that
the Dynon magnetometer was going to be about a foot and half or so from the
servo and I thought, "now I will have another project...." but a test flight
found it has no effect when off and the compass only moves a degree or two
when the ALT hold is engaged.
I flew around for half an hour and tried turns etc, straight and level it
holds within 10, occasionally 20 feet. In a std rate turn it might lose 50
feet, but rolling out it come right back to the selected altitude.
I turned it on, an left it on, and landed the airplane to prove it was not a
problem and it wasn't.
I am off to West Texas (1600nm round-trip) this weekend, so it will get a
workout. So far, I'm very pleased with how easily it went in and how well
it works.
Thank you Mr. Younkin.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Mike
I forgot to mention that the elements in the Flow Ezy filters are stainless steel
mesh screens, like the Russell units mentioned by Bill Von Dane.
Local RV-6 builder Eric Hensen had shown me a K & N fuel filter externally similar
to the Russell filter. I checked it out. My objection to it (K & N) was that
it offered less than two inches of filter surface area. (ie Easy to clog)
My personal feeling is that I want as much surface area on the element of any
filter in my aircraft, oil or fuel. The greater surface area of a large element
affords a greater margin of safety in my book.
Charlie
PS I can send photos of the Flow Ezy filter element "off list" to anyone interested.
--- Mike Rhodes <<http://us.f124.mail.yahoo.com/ym//ym/Compose?To=lezdriver@yahoo.com&YY=51916&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b>lezdriver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> It's a great "debate" subject and I agree with what you've said here. My safety
concern is around >the potential use of an auto style fuel filter by a builder
who may not appreciate the difference
> between an auto and aircraft application.
>
> Thanks for the feedback on clearing that up.
>
> Happy tailwinds!
> Mike
>
> --- Charles Kuss <<http://us.f124.mail.yahoo.com/ym//ym/Compose?To=chaskuss@yahoo.com&YY=51916&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b>chaskuss@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Mike,
> > I was asking this question while researching
> which
> > filter to use. Several filter manufacturers I
> > investigated offered both mesh screens and paper
> > elements. The manufacturers were unanimous in
> their
> > opinion that only a steel mesh screen should be
> used
> > for critical applications.
> > I finally chose the Flow Ezy filter. This is the
> > filter sold by Vans and Airflow Performance. Their
> > elements are all stainless steel mesh. It is
> > available
> > in 3 models. They are of the same design. The
> differ
> > only in physical size and element size. The models
> > are
> > 4ILA, 6ILA (sold by Vans & Airflow) and the 15
> ILA.
> > These units are offered with a variety of
> differing
> > filtration elements, ranging from 238 microns down
> > to
> > 25 microns. All of their elements are pleated, to
> > increase the surface area available.
> > You should contact Precision Airmotive, current
> > manufacturer of the Marvel Schebler carbs used on
> > Lycomings.
> >
> > <http://www.precisionairmotive.com/>http://www.precisionairmotive.com/
> >
> > They should be able to recommend proper sizing of
> > the
> > filtration element for your project.
> >
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> > --- Mike Rhodes <<http://us.f124.mail.yahoo.com/ym//ym/Compose?To=lezdriver@yahoo.com&YY=51916&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b>lezdriver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > It seems to me that putting anything in the fuel
> > > path
> > > that would be finer than the metal mesh screen
> in
> > > the
> > > gascolator is inviting trouble. Paper fuel
> > filters
> > > in
> > > the micron range is fine for cars because you
> > don't
> > > have to deal with the most dangerous potential
> > force
> > > to airplanes.... gravity... and the only thing
> > that
> > > will defy it.... a running engine!
> > >
> > > It's perfectly fine to allow pieces in the fuel
> to
> > > move into the carb that will pass through the
> > needle
> > > jet, and that's the purpose of the screen mesh
> > size
> > > in
> > > a gascolator.
> > >
> > > A paper/cloth pleated filter in an airplane that
> > > requires fuel tank head pressure to make fuel
> pass
> > > through it before reaching the fuel pp.... not
> in
> > my
> > > airplane! It doesn't matter how much surface
> area
> > a
> > > filter has.... that only changes the time it
> takes
> > > until total obstruction.
> > >
> > > Mike Rhodes
> > > Pilot/Builder & Mechanical Engr.
Message 59
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| Subject: | engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for |
once?
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Tedd,
Four of us flew to OSH together in RV's. I was in one with a 160 HP O-320 +
Ed Sterba Fixed Pitch Wood Prop. Also along was a Eggenfellner based RV7
with the MT (electric) CS prop.
The RV6 was than the RV7 ***AT THE RPM's THE OWNER WAS WILLING TO TURN AT
THE TIME***. (Note: He had *just* finished it (40.5 hrs.) and then flow it
from California to the East Coast and from there to OSH). His plans were to
add the supercharger later.
The RV7 would **outclimb** the RV6 without a question.
Thus I would put the performance in the range of the Lyc O-320 (160 HP) at
the altitudes we were flying (<7000 ft). He is supposed to be MUCH better at
altitude when the supercharger is added.
Just FYI.
James
180 HP O-360 in next project
[SNIP]
> the laughter from here.) The Eggenfellner is the best package
> out there right
> now, but I feel it's a tiny bit small for an RV-6. It's also
> more money than
> my rebuilt Lycoming will be (although maybe not, when all the bells and
> whistles are added).
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
> do not archive
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip antennas |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
It fits in the RV-3 wingtip.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV Right wingtip COM antenna Modified from the wingtip NAV antenna
Message 61
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| Subject: | This list is powerful and helpful. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" <F.vanderHulst@ucol.ac.nz>
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
> If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!!
Yikes...
> Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that
extra
> $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)!
>
> Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than
the Lycosaur,
> maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around
$3.00, then we're
> looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference!
I'd rather take
> that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel,
etc...
Way to rich for my blood too.
But... After 1700 hours, perhaps you'd better save the $7,000 for
rebuilding your IO-360.
Frank
Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online
at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL
(0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information
and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of
Learning.
Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your
future
Message 62
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| Subject: | Attaching gear legs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
Any good ideas on how to lift the fuselage to attach my 9A gear? I have an engine
hoist but I don't think it will lift high enough. And I don't really have
a good situation for an overhead hoist either (9 foot garage ceiling).
Thanks
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices |
for once?
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Richard Tasker wrote:
> You might want to take a look at the web site before you decide that is
> "a tiny bit small for an RV-6". I believe that the 2.5XT will
> outperform the Lyc 360.
I was referring to the basic 2.5. I'm quite familiar with the 2.5XT, and
you're right, it is more powerful.
Tedd
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