---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/17/04: 63 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:05 AM - Re: SPRAYLAT & unmask (J. R. Dial) 2. 04:40 AM - Dallas airports (Michel) 3. 05:52 AM - Another transponder check question... (Ken Balch) 4. 06:14 AM - Re: Dallas airports (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 5. 06:40 AM - Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? (P M Condon) 6. 07:07 AM - Re: Another transponder check question... (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 7. 07:20 AM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Darwin N. Barrie) 8. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 9. 07:33 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net) 10. 07:40 AM - This list is powerful and helpful. (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 11. 07:42 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (Bruce Gray) 12. 08:16 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (Cy Galley) 13. 08:16 AM - New StabCam! (Bill VonDane) 14. 08:44 AM - Re: New StabCam! (lucky macy) 15. 08:45 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (linn walters) 16. 08:48 AM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Tedd McHenry) 17. 09:05 AM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Bill Dube) 18. 09:17 AM - Re: Engine drawings (Off topic) (Tedd McHenry) 19. 09:52 AM - Re: New StabCam! (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 20. 09:58 AM - Re: New StabCam! (Larry Bowen) 21. 10:02 AM - [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 22. 10:10 AM - (Ron Patterson) 23. 10:23 AM - Anybody out there? (Ron Patterson) 24. 10:26 AM - Re: New StabCam! (Bill VonDane) 25. 11:21 AM - Re: Transponder Checks (Mike Robertson) 26. 11:45 AM - Re: Dynon - Rethink Internal Battery (Jim and Bev Cone) 27. 01:02 PM - correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Bill Dube) 28. 01:11 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (RV8ter@aol.com) 29. 01:11 PM - Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (RV8ter@aol.com) 30. 01:34 PM - cutting aluminum with a hole saw (Jeff Cours) 31. 01:40 PM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... (Bill VonDane) 32. 02:04 PM - Re: cutting aluminum with a hole saw (Will & Lynda Allen) 33. 02:18 PM - Wing tip antennas (Leesafur@aol.com) 34. 02:19 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (Stein Bruch) 35. 02:20 PM - Re: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Bill Dube) 36. 02:35 PM - Re: Wing tip antennas (Alex Peterson) 37. 02:35 PM - Re: CrossFlow Subie engine (Tedd McHenry) 38. 02:40 PM - Re: cutting aluminum with a hole saw (John Danielson) 39. 02:41 PM - Boston / New Hampshire Area RV'ers (Stein Bruch) 40. 02:47 PM - Re: cutting aluminum with a hole saw (Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)) 41. 02:49 PM - engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? (RV8ter@aol.com) 42. 02:52 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (Charles Becker) 43. 03:00 PM - Re: Another transponder check question... (RV6 Flyer) 44. 03:06 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (RV8ter@aol.com) 45. 03:22 PM - spewing fuel (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 46. 03:36 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Richard Tasker) 47. 03:59 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Tedd McHenry) 48. 04:20 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? (RV8ter@aol.com) 49. 04:20 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (Stein Bruch) 50. 04:30 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (lucky macy) 51. 04:53 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (Dana Overall) 52. 05:32 PM - Re: Another transponder check question... (Jerry Springer) 53. 05:39 PM - What is this engine worth? (Mark Schrimmer) 54. 05:39 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Richard Tasker) 55. 06:35 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? (RV8ter@aol.com) 56. 07:12 PM - Compass Fluid, was Spraylat & Unmasked (Emrath) 57. 07:22 PM - Alt-Trak (Doug Rozendaal) 58. 07:24 PM - Fw: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... (Charlie Kuss) 59. 07:33 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? (James E. Clark) 60. 07:54 PM - Re: Wing tip antennas (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 61. 07:56 PM - Re: This list is powerful and helpful. (Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)) 62. 09:46 PM - Attaching gear legs (Mike Holland) 63. 10:01 PM - Re: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices (Tedd McHenry) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:05 AM PST US From: "J. R. Dial" Subject: RE: RV-List: SPRAYLAT & unmask --> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" I missed some of this about SPRAYLAT, so what is the part number, where do you get it and will it work on Plexiglas? I was thinking of using it on the windshield to mask around where I seal the fiberglass frame around the windshield. You can answer off list. Thanks. DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve dinieri Subject: Re: RV-List: SPRAYLAT & unmask --> RV-List message posted by: "steve dinieri" i had best results just smearing some regular dish soap on the thin spraylat and letting soak. it's water based like elmers glue so any moisture will soften it given enough time. usually overnight then just wash off.. steve dinieri rv6a N221RV > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > You will find in the archives goo-gone is also a popular favorite. I > used it all over mine and it worked great. Remember to get all that > goo-gone oily stuff off the canopy after the tape removal. Give it a > good cleaning. > > Mike Stewart > Do not archive > == == == == ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:27 AM PST US From: "Michel" Subject: RV-List: Dallas airports --> RV-List message posted by: "Michel" I am going to Simuflite in Dallas next week for a five day course and am hoping the weather will cooperate and let me fly my 8. Any suggestion as to the airport I should use as there sure is a choice. I'm in London, Ontario, Canada Michel 81117 176 hrs Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:44 AM PST US From: Ken Balch Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question... --> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage bulkhead, but I didn't... :-) Regards, Ken Balch Clermont, FL RV-8 N118KB ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:16 AM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Dallas airports --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Michel, I go to Simuflite also and we land at Arlington (GKY) since it is an easy drive straight north on the interstate to the Simuflite area of hotels. There are others that may be more convenient for the small aircraft. We like staying on the North side of DFW....like the Harvey suites. Good luck Doug Preston BHM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:30 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? --> RV-List message posted by: P M Condon The SWR you measured was a measure of the reflected RF energy along the coax transmission line, basically the mismatch of the radiating element(antenna), connector(s) & line. In theory, the RF is heating up (almost not preceivable) the coax (reflecting) and radiating out the active element(antena). Placement of the antenna has nothing to do with the SWR. Now, transmitted RF energy, once exited the antenna has lobes, patterns and field strengths of signal that may by biased based on location of the antenna. Shielding and masking of the signal from the rudder or stab will effect radiated RF and produce blind spots. Remember this all theory. In school, after all the theory and lab exercises on optimal RF, transmission line theory and all that, the instrustor placed a ordinary potatoe masher on the test rig and the kitchen potatoe masher radiated the RF energy with the same SWR and energy pattern and same line loss as the "real antenna". I imagine the reason the instructor did this was to show us the theory and practical side of electronics, in this case, was......well....not really sure. Time: 05:33:00 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Top mounted antenna --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com While on this subject has anyone else ever tested the performance of an ELT antenna mounted under the fiberglass fairing between the rudder and horizontal. I made some measurements with my MFJ-259B antenna analyzer and found that, when mounted there, there was an extremely high SWR and no resonance indicated. (I am a ham operator.) Therefore, the antenna will radiate very poorly. For that reason I am seriously considering putting the ELT antenna on the turtle deck. When it is in the clear, the SWR measures about 1.5:1 which is acceptable. Does anyone know about how serious the additional drag would be? In a message dated 2/15/04 11:25:50 PM US Eastern Standard Time, sbuc@hiwaay.net writes: > Doug Weiler wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" > > His question is whether anyone has had any experience with a > >top mounted antenna mounted roughly halfway between the canopy and the > >vertical fin. Specifically any RF interference with such an installation. > > > The com antenna mounted on the turtle deck of my RV-6 has always worked > very nicely for me. > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6 545 hrs) > http://thervjournal.com > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Another transponder check question... From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Yes it will cause it will have to be bench tested. I had to make a harness to go from my Mencoder to their bench. I sold the unit but still have the harness I think. Mike Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Balch Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question... --> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage bulkhead, but I didn't... :-) Regards, Ken Balch Clermont, FL RV-8 N118KB == == == == ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:13 AM PST US From: "Darwin N. Barrie" Subject: Re: RV-List: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" I researched the Bombardier engine some time ago. As you note it will be certified and they will not be selling to the experimental market. Interestingly, a couple of months ago there was an article about the engine in Kit Planes (I think) describing the engine. It seems the trend is going toward the lower bore, higher RPM engine. They are smoother, more reliable, run cooler and are more fuel efficient. Gee, sounds like a Subaru!! Now with the Crossflow FWF package for the -10 and other models along with all of the Eggenfellner engines the choices are widening. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: CrossFlow Subie engine > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > > > > > > > I'm highly motivated to go non-Lycosaur for my RV10 and am seeking the > >most > > > bang for the buck, with the least amount of hassle-factor to install it. > >260 > > > hp minimum. Jury is still out on just where I'm going to get such an > > > engine. > > > >The new Bombardier 220 HP or 300 HP engine might be the ticket for a -10, > >if > >it's ready in time for you. > > > >http://www.vaircraftengines.com/ > > > >Tedd McHenry > >Surrey, BC > > Great looking powerplant for sure. I seriously doubt it will be priced so > that I can afford it, and I'm not sure if they're going to play with us > experimental guys at all. At least not initially. I think they should just > give me one and let me fly it for a while. But I gotta finish the airframe > first! > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > RV10 '51 > > do not archive > > Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:03 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Top Mounted Antenna ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com In a message dated 2/17/04 9:41:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time, pcondon@mitre.org writes: > > The SWR you measured was a measure of the reflected RF energy along the coax > transmission line, basically the mismatch of the radiating element(antenna), > connector(s) &line. In theory, the RF is heating up (almost not preceivable) > the coax > (reflecting) and radiating out the active element(antena). Placement of the > antenna has > nothing to do with the SWR. Now, transmitted RF energy, once exited the > antenna has > lobes, patterns and field strengths of signal that may by biased based on > location of > the antenna. Shielding and masking of the signal from the rudder or stab > will effect > radiated RF and produce blind spots. Remember this all theory. In school, > after all the > theory and lab exercises on optimal RF, transmission line theory and all > that, the > instrustor placed a ordinary potatoe masher on the test rig and the kitchen > potatoe > masher radiated the RF energy with the same SWR and energy pattern and same > line loss as > the "real antenna". I imagine the reason the instructor did this was to show > us the > theory and practical side of electronics, in this case, was......well....not > really > sure. > Hi P M and thanks for your reply, I must disagree about the antenna placement having nothing to do with SWR. Placing a lossy potato in the RF field can absorb a lot of power and not change the SWR, but the area around the tailcone is probably not lossy for RF. The placement of the antenna definitely changes SWR as shown by a simple measurement of SWR by any of the instruments commonly used for that purpose. The reason is that the antenna is detuned by the capacitance of the nearby grounded surfaces. Although you are right about SWR not being the final determining factor of the radiation efficiency of the antenna, it is a good indicator of weather the antenna is working as designed. A field strength meter would be a better instrument to use to prove whether the antenna is doing its job or not. However, its a little hard to test antennas on 121.5 MHz without drawing a lot of attention from people trying to locate the emergency! I know from experience with antennas that placing the antenna in the tailcone as is being done simply will not work well at all. Dan N766DH RV-7A almost finished ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:32 AM PST US From: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) --> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are "experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized. My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily available. Anyone else want this type of information? Brian Kraut wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Kraut > >Can anyone tell me where I can get some CAD drawings of popular aircraft engines? I am working on a design for a 4 place aircraft and I need some engine drawings for my initial shape and sizing drawings. I would prefer 3D cad drawings, but I have not been able to find and dimensioned drawings at all yet so I will take whatever I can get for right now. I am in particular looking for a TSIO-550 as a maximum size engine, but would like an O-360 and O-320 also. > >Brian Kraut >engalt@earthlink.net > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:06 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's enormous! As another example, one guy on this list asked for the Garmin 400/500 series installation manual which I posted up for him. 133 download attempts. That to me is pretty cool and goes to underscore just how useful this stuff really is. The numbers are very telling. And it is clearly pretty cool to lots of others too. If you have not sent your money in to Matt, and you are one of these clickers... well shame on you. I know it is not money raising time.... And I have neither met Matt, nor even spoken to him. But clearly this list is a friendship to many and we should thank him with the small token of appreciation he deserves. If you have never seen this web statistic info and would like to peek at it. Go here for Febuary. https://godspeed.lusis.org/stats/www.mstewart.net/usage_200402.html It is quite interesting stuff. For example.. Dashboard painting is always one of the highest search strings that gets folks into my site from a search engine. Seems there are lots of people looking up how to paint dashboards. Strange huh? Anyway. I hope you find this even a fraction as interesting as I do. And thanks be to Matt Michael Stewart Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:09 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Hard to do. The drawings are copyrighted by Lycoming and I doubt if they would allow the EAA to reproduce at will. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) --> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are "experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized. My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily available. Anyone else want this type of information? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:00 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Many of the engine manuals have 3-views with dimensions. You could scan these at high resolution, scale up and easily use them. Incidentally I think that the 550 is a Continental, Lycomings is a 540. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) > --> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net > > I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have > these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd > if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on > getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are > "experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was > disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to > all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized. > My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this > then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical > information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad > or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily > available. Anyone else want this type of information? > > Brian Kraut wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Kraut > > > >Can anyone tell me where I can get some CAD drawings of popular aircraft engines? I am working on a design for a 4 place aircraft and I need some engine drawings for my initial shape and sizing drawings. I would prefer 3D cad drawings, but I have not been able to find and dimensioned drawings at all yet so I will take whatever I can get for right now. I am in particular looking for a TSIO-550 as a maximum size engine, but would like an O-360 and O-320 also. > > > >Brian Kraut > >engalt@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:00 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: New StabCam! vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical stabilizer.... http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm -Bill VonDane EAA Tech Counselor RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:23 AM PST US From: "lucky macy" Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam! --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the lense coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If you can solve that one please update to the list. lucky >From: Bill VonDane >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce > >Subject: RV-List: New StabCam! >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > >I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical stabilizer.... > >http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm > > >-Bill VonDane >EAA Tech Counselor >RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs >www.vondane.com >www.creativair.com >www.epanelbuilder.com > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:31 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net > >I called EAA and asked for Lycoming drawings, assuming they would have >these for their members. I was told they did not have any. I wonderd >if I asked the question correctly. Then I asked if they planned on >getting any and again, no plans to do so. Considering that we are >"experimental builders" represented by a group including this name I was >disappointed. I would have gladly paid a reproduction fee -- reduced to >all EAA builders because Lycoming's fees would be amortized. >My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this >then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical >information to advance our cause. Since quite a few of us use Autocad >or something similar it might make sense to make this stuff easily >available. Anyone else want this type of information? > Well, there's probably a copyright problem with EAA becoming the 'reproducer' and selling them. Your best bet would be to see if the Lycoming drawings fit your needs and purchas same directly. Some plotters have scanning capability and there are programs to convert the scanned drawing to a vector graphics file which is compatible with Autocad. Having said that, I don't know anybody that does this. If I remember correctly (and that's iffy) this started as a quest for dimensional data so that engineering could be done correctly so cowl and fuselage could be aerodynamically engineered. You might find out how Van's designs their FWF kit and get some good info there. I suspect that they just hang the engine out there with all accessories and construct a PVC engine mount and then convert that to a steel mount. Shaped foam is used to make a cowl and voila ...... the task is done. Just another opinion ..... Linn > >Brian Kraut wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Kraut >> >>Can anyone tell me where I can get some CAD drawings of popular aircraft engines? I am working on a design for a 4 place aircraft and I need some engine drawings for my initial shape and sizing drawings. I would prefer 3D cad drawings, but I have not been able to find and dimensioned drawings at all yet so I will take whatever I can get for right now. I am in particular looking for a TSIO-550 as a maximum size engine, but would like an O-360 and O-320 also. >> >>Brian Kraut >>engalt@earthlink.net >> >> ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:32 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Darwin N. Barrie wrote: > I researched the Bombardier engine some time ago. As you note it will be > certified and they will not be selling to the experimental market. I don't know what their plans are, but they're testing it on a Murphy Moose, which indicates at least a passing interest in the kitplane market. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:47 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 10:30 PM 2/16/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" > > >I have no first hand knowledge of the CF4-20 CrossFlow engine that someone >posted a link to earlier but I did check out their specs on-line. Below >is an excerpt from their document. >Let's assume the HP rating is correct even though 180 HP sounds optimistic >from a 125 cubic inch engine. They claim 7.5 GPH at 80% power. 80% of >180 is 144 HP. 7.5 GPH is 45 lb per hr. 45 lb / 144 HP equals a BSFC of >.3125 lb/hp/hr. This is better than most diesel engines and better than >any gasoline engine I ever heard of. >This might be a fine engine but is anybody buying these numbers? I don't have aircraft conversion experience with Subaru engines, but I do have automobile conversion experience with them. I put a carburetted 1800 twin cam in my 1970 VW Campmobile. The mileage went from 21 mpg to 27 mpg. I put an EFI turbo-charged 1800 twin cam in my 1966 Karmann Ghia. The mileage in the Ghia went from 32 mpg to 40 mpg. The van would bury the speedometer easily and I could push the Ghia up to 135 mph. These were both 100% stock engines (with custom exhaust systems.) Even driving these cars like a maniac, I would get great gas mileage. I expect you would also get fantastic specific fuel consumption in an aircraft conversion. Even though I have a lot of experience with the Subaru engines, I don't feel comfortable souping one up to 180 HP and expecting it to be reliable. They are highly reliable when left stock in an auto application, but asking one to run continuously at 180 HP makes me a bit nervous. Keep in mind that I have no worries about running a Mazda rotary at full HP in an airplane and plan to do so in my RV-7. It's a different animal entirely. PS I don't still have both Subaru engines and the adapter stuff in case anyone is interested. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:29 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine drawings (Off topic) --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 jamesbaldwin@attglobal.net wrote: > My point is this: if enough EAA members ask for resources such as this > then perhaps the EAA library will get with it and get more technical > information to advance our cause. As others have pointed out, there could be proprietary issues. It might be better to approach Lycoming directly. I'm sure they're very interested in supporting the kitplane market (look at the deals they give to Van's and Lancair). DeltaHawk has 3D CAD models of their engine downloadable for free on their web site. You might be able to talk Lycoming into doing the same thing. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam! From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Lucky & Bill, Paul Stratman had a pretty wide view lens on his tail cam. Link on my site here: http://mstewart.net/michael/rv/teamrv/snf03/index.htm First paragraph has a link to the 3mb movie where You will find an in-trail roll and some formation passes and SnF03 with his wide lens. Pretty neat view. He could tell you which lens he has. http://home.kc.rr.com/pauljana/ Mike Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky macy Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam! --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the lense coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If you can solve that one please update to the list. lucky >From: Bill VonDane >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce > >Subject: RV-List: New StabCam! >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > >I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical stabilizer.... > >http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm > > >-Bill VonDane >EAA Tech Counselor >RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs >www.vondane.com >www.creativair.com >www.epanelbuilder.com > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ == == == == ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam! From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" The camera I'm using looks to have the same field of view as Bill's. I'm not too concerned about it yet though. It looks too tight in the hanger, but I'm hoping it will be just right in the air. I've seem wider FOV lenses, and they can have the illusion of wearing coke-bottle glasses inside a fishbowl - something I'd rather avoid. I used shielded 20 AWG from the bullet cam to the camcorder (nice and skinny), using Electric Bob's technique for putting the BNC end on. I have some interference while transmitting too, but it's very dependant upon where all the **test equipment and hook-ups** are laid out inside the **metal building**. Again, I'm optimistic this problem will go away once everything is hooked up "for real". - Larry Bowen, RV-8 FWF Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com lucky macy said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" > > cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the > lense > coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If > you > can solve that one please update to the list. > > lucky > > >>From: Bill VonDane >>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce >> >>Subject: RV-List: New StabCam! >>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700 >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane >> >>I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical >> stabilizer.... >> >>http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm >> >> >>-Bill VonDane ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:26 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: [ Jim Cone ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim Cone Subject: Jim Cone's Canopy Installation Instructions http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jimnbev@olypen.com.02.17.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:13 AM PST US From: Ron Patterson --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson Hello, I've been doing alot of reading, but not much posting on these lists. Thought I'd try getting involved a bit with fellow builders. I'm writing to see if there are still guys building the RV-4? I just purchased a new kit and started on it about January 1st, 04. Luckily I have a friend (Mark Koenig) who is an experienced builder and is helping me (actually I'm helping him). We're about to finish the empennage and I'm picking up the rest of the kit next week if all goes well. No doubt about it, this is the hard way to build an airplane. I now have alot of respect for the guys that went before me who didn't have the benefit of the refinements of the later kits (prepunch and quickbuilds). Getting these -3's and 4's to fly safe and straight is a real effort. Semms to me It needs to be a labor of love or it won't likely come out right. Recently I was in Missoula MT and had the opportunity of meeting Art Chard at his shop in Stevensville. I learned alot about the evolution of the RV series and his part in the design and building of them. Nice man. Built 47 airplanes so far! Was in the midle of an F-1 when I was there in December. Seems to me it's too bad Van wouldn't put this kit out in a prepunched version. I still feel it's his best design. I've spoken to a couple of folks at the factory and it seems the cost of reverse engineering the kit would be large and the market for the -3 and -4 pretty small. Wouldn't make a good business decision. If you have built, or you are currently building a -3 or a -4, drop a note about your experience. Would be good to hear about 'how they used to do it' and how some of us are still at it. Ron Patterson N8ZD reserved Northern California ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:26 AM PST US From: Ron Patterson Subject: RV-List: Anybody out there? --> RV-List message posted by: Ron Patterson Hello, I've been doing alot of reading, but not much posting on these lists. Thought I'd try getting involved a bit with fellow builders. I'm writing to see if there are still guys building the RV-4? I just purchased a new kit and started on it about January 1st, 04. Luckily I have a friend (Mark Koenig) who is an experienced builder and is helping me (actually I'm helping him). We're about to finish the empennage and I'm picking up the rest of the kit next week if all goes well. No doubt about it, this is the hard way to build an airplane. I now have alot of respect for the guys that went before me who didn't have the benefit of the refinements of the later kits (prepunch and quickbuilds). Getting these -3's and 4's to fly safe and straight is a real effort. Semms to me It needs to be a labor of love or it won't likely come out right. Recently I was in Missoula MT and had the opportunity of meeting Art Chard at his shop in Stevensville. I learned alot about the evolution of the RV series and his part in the design and building of them. Nice man. Built 47 airplanes so far! Was in the midle of an F-1 when I was there in December. Seems to me it's too bad Van wouldn't put this kit out in a prepunched version. I still feel it's his best design. I've spoken to a couple of folks at the factory and it seems the cost of reverse engineering the kit would be large and the market for the -3 and -4 pretty small. Wouldn't make a good business decision. If you have built, or you are currently building a -3 or a -4, drop a note about your experience. Would be good to hear about 'how they used to do it' and how some of us are still at it. Ron Patterson N8ZD reserved Northern California ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:53 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: New StabCam! --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I like that view better I think... I am going to see if I can get a wider angle lens... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam! --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Lucky & Bill, Paul Stratman had a pretty wide view lens on his tail cam. Link on my site here: http://mstewart.net/michael/rv/teamrv/snf03/index.htm First paragraph has a link to the 3mb movie where You will find an in-trail roll and some formation passes and SnF03 with his wide lens. Pretty neat view. He could tell you which lens he has. http://home.kc.rr.com/pauljana/ Mike Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky macy Subject: RE: RV-List: New StabCam! --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" cool. I saw Larry's example too and am darn glad you pointed out the lense coverage 'cause I agree a wider field of view would be nice to have. If you can solve that one please update to the list. lucky >From: Bill VonDane >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce > >Subject: RV-List: New StabCam! >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:15:22 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > >I've been working on installing a bullet cam in my vertical stabilizer.... > >http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/stabcam/index.htm > > >-Bill VonDane >EAA Tech Counselor >RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs >www.vondane.com >www.creativair.com >www.epanelbuilder.com > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ == == == == ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:48 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Transponder Checks --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" It Does if it needs to be adjusted. I would seriously suggest that you have your locla radio shop conduct a bench check on the unit prior to installing it. Then he will just be able to hook up to everything on the aircraft and finish the inspection. Mike Robertson >From: "Larry Bowen" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: Transponder Checks >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:46:45 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > >Does adjusting the encoder integrated into the Dynon present any special >challenges? > >- >Larry Bowen >Larry@BowenAero.com >http://BowenAero.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bill@vondane.com] > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 3:33 PM > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Transponder Checks > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > > > I just helped out our local Transponder Certifier Guy here > > with an -8, and there are some very specialized tools he had > > for setting the encoder, and checking the pitot and static systems... > > > > We had to adjust both the high and low pots on the > > encoder.....and you need to set these with the encoder > > thinking that it is actually at the high and low altitudes, > > so you need another machine that fools the encoder via the > > static port... > > > > He charges $200, but he checks everything, is very exact in > > his encoder settings, and if something is wrong he will let > > you fix it right there while he's doing the tests... > > > > Oh, and he's building an RV-4... > > > > -Bill VonDane > > EAA Tech Counselor > > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs > > www.vondane.com > > www.creativair.com > > www.epanelbuilder.com > > > > > > ============ > > Matronics Forums. > > ============ > > ============ > > ============ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:58 AM PST US From: "Jim and Bev Cone" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon - Rethink Internal Battery --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim and Bev Cone" Another possibility is to not get the internal battery and install a backup battery and a diode hooked up to a CB switch so that the battery is constantly charged but will automatically pick up the load if the voltage drops by .5 volts. This setup is described on Blue Mountain Avionics' site. I have it for my EFIS One. This is also cheaper than the internal battery. Jim Cone 3 peat offender ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:41 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: RV-List: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > >PS > > I don't still have both Subaru engines and the adapter stuff in >case anyone is interested. I meant to say "I DO still have the engines...." ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:23 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the production of your engine. A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date of your first payment The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine and prior to the shipping of it to your location. We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as doing performance testing to ensure that everything is working properly. Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, mstewart@iss.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's enormous! ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:56 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com what engines? the 2.5L Egg engine? ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:03 PM PST US From: Jeff Cours Subject: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours Hi, everyone - I'm almost ready to cut the lightening holes in the spar stiffener for a 7A's vertical stabilizer. Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) , my current plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. I'm pretty new to working in metal. Do any of you experienced folks see any problems with this plan? Otherwise, I'll just give 'er a try and see what happens. thanks, Jeff C. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:25 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane The filters I have in the wing roots of my -8A only have screens in them... I have cleaned them maybe 3 times in 21 months, and they never had much in them... Just looks like a little fuzz... The filters are from Earl's, part number 230208: http://www.amstreetrod.com/html/fuel-oil-filters.html Here are some photos of my installation: http://vondane.com/rv8a/finish/finish8.htm I am going to be cleaning then here this week and I will take some photos... -Bill VonDane EAA Tech Counselor RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com By the way... I have added a new Aircraft / Engine Pre-Heater to my CreativAir product line: http://www.creativair.com/ex-heat/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Rhodes" Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... Hi Charles, It's a great "debate" subject and I agree with what you've said here. My safety concern is around the potential use of an auto style fuel filter by a builder who may not appreciate the difference between an auto and aircraft application. Thanks for the feedback on clearing that up. Happy tailwinds! Mike ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:05 PM PST US From: "Will & Lynda Allen" Subject: RE: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw --> RV-List message posted by: "Will & Lynda Allen" I cut lightening holes in spacers for my wings almost the same way and it worked fine. I used the bi-metal hole saws with an electric plug in drill (I didn't know if my cordless would be powerful enough). I did find that it works better if you drill the pilot hole first with a separate bit and then use the hole cutter and pilot drill together to finish the hole. Using Boelube worked awesome as the lubricant and I swear by this stuff. I will add though, since getting a drill press, it's much nicer drilling these holes and if you're going to get one anyway eventually, you may as well get one now. -Will Allen North Bend, Wa RV8 wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Cours Subject: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours Hi, everyone - I'm almost ready to cut the lightening holes in the spar stiffener for a 7A's vertical stabilizer. Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) , my current plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. I'm pretty new to working in metal. Do any of you experienced folks see any problems with this plan? Otherwise, I'll just give 'er a try and see what happens. thanks, Jeff C. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:26 PM PST US From: Leesafur@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Wing tip antennas --> RV-List message posted by: Leesafur@aol.com I'm thinking of going with the Archer Model 1 wing tip antenna. Does anybody know first hand If it will fit the RV-3 wing tip also can a guy get away with a strobe light mounted in the same tip? Thanks Lee Anoka, MN RV-3 Wing ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:45 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hmmmm.. If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel, etc... Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto conversions is cost. But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll leave it at that! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com Do Not Archive ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RV8ter@aol.com >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. > >Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. > >Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >production of your engine. >A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >of your first payment >The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >working properly. >Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 > >In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >mstewart@iss.net writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >enormous! > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:19 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: correction Re: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 04:11 PM 2/17/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >what engines? the 2.5L Egg engine? Stock 1800 Subaru twin cam (1.8 L) engines. One is a turbo-charged electronic fuel injection engine. The other is a non-turbo carburetor engine. Complete power plants with alternators, fuel pumps, ignition coils, and all electronics, relays, etc. Only one VW-Subaru adapter plate, clutch, and flywheel, however. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:39 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing tip antennas --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > I'm thinking of going with the Archer Model 1 wing tip > antenna. Does > anybody know first hand If it will fit the RV-3 wing tip also > can a guy get away > with a strobe light mounted in the same tip? > > Thanks > > > Lee > Anoka, MN > RV-3 Wing Lee, is it a com antenna? If so, even by Bob Archer's admission, it isn't very good. One of the -7A's in town has one, and he going to switch to a whip on the fuse. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 438 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:41 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: CrossFlow Subie engine --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Dube wrote: > Even though I have a lot of experience with the Subaru engines, I > don't feel comfortable souping one up to 180 HP and expecting it to be > reliable. They are highly reliable when left stock in an auto application, > but asking one to run continuously at 180 HP makes me a bit nervous. I agree. Eggenfellner is getting excellent results with his Subarus, which are essentially dead stock (except for a slightly re-tuned intake maniflod). They're good for 165 HP maximum, with about 105 HP available for cruise at 8,000 feet. Charlie Walker has about 450 hours on his, in a Glastar, and has not yet used any oil. Wear is negligible. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:29 PM PST US From: "John Danielson" Subject: RE: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw --> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" I DON'T REALLY SEE APROBLEM WITH THAT APPORACH. Get yourself A DRILL PRESS, EVEN A BENCH TOP UNIT CAN DO 99% OF THE WORK YOU NEED. John L. Danielson 307-266-2524 johnd@wlcwyo.com WLC, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Cours Subject: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours Hi, everyone - I'm almost ready to cut the lightening holes in the spar stiffener for a 7A's vertical stabilizer. Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) , my current plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. I'm pretty new to working in metal. Do any of you experienced folks see any problems with this plan? Otherwise, I'll just give 'er a try and see what happens. thanks, Jeff C. == == == == ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:06 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RV-List: Boston / New Hampshire Area RV'ers --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hi All, Due to a business trip this week, I'm finding myself in Boston over the coming weekend with no plans and was wondering if there are any RV'ers around (or within a decent drive) of Boston, that might like some free help riveting, wiring,etc.. or need a co-pilot on Saturday or Sunday?!?! You can contact me off list if you like! Thanks, Stein Bruch Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:05 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: cutting aluminum with a hole saw From: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours > Since I haven't gotten my drill press yet, and > I'm not brave enough to use a fly cutter without one :-) Very wise... a fly cutter in a hand-held drill would be *very* dangerous. It's dangerous enough in a drill press! > , my current > plan is to clamp the stiffener to a particle board backing, use a bit of > cutting oil, cut with hole saws that are 1/8" under-sized in a cordless > screwdriver/drill, and clean up with a smooth cut file as necessary. Yup, sounds fine to me. I've cut many lightening holes this way. Make sure you clamp that metal down really well, and go slowly at the cut. Alternatively, if you have a jigsaw/sabre saw, you could use that. But it's difficult to get a nice round hole. Frank Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL (0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of Learning. Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your future ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:47 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Stein, The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here. Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to Crossflow. What do you think of that value? vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop at 5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know. I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming), fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price), etc. I love this process! Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all still goes per their wish. What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going to end up doing? If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured, I think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky, despite the name. Only in America! off the box, Lucky In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, stein@steinair.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hmmmm.. If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel, etc... Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto conversions is cost. But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll leave it at that! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com Do Not Archive ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RV8ter@aol.com >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. > >Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. > >Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >production of your engine. >A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >of your first payment >The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >working properly. >Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 > >In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >mstewart@iss.net writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >enormous! > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:32 PM PST US From: "Charles Becker" Subject: RE: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Becker" Yes, but I believe that is a full firewall forward kit. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hmmmm.. If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel, etc... Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto conversions is cost. But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll leave it at that! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com Do Not Archive ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RV8ter@aol.com >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. > >Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. > >Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >production of your engine. >A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >of your first payment >The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >working properly. >Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 > >In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >mstewart@iss.net writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >enormous! > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:33 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Another transponder check question... --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" The RMI MicroEncoder can be adjusted from the front panel if it needs it. The only way you will need to pull the unit out is if it is broken and needs a part inside replaced. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,438 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ken Balch Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question... --> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage bulkhead, but I didn't... :-) Regards, Ken Balch Clermont, FL RV-8 N118KB Say good-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:55 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com it is. In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, ctbecker@charter.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Becker" Yes, but I believe that is a full firewall forward kit. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: Re: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hmmmm.. If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel, etc... Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto conversions is cost. But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll leave it at that! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com Do Not Archive ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RV8ter@aol.com >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. > >Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. > >Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >production of your engine. >A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >of your first payment >The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >working properly. >Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 > >In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >mstewart@iss.net writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >enormous! > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:06 PM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: RV-List: spewing fuel --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" I've heard about this, but but have never seen or believed its intensity. Climbing out yesterday at about 100 kts, I looked over at the right wing and fuel was literally gushing out of the fuel cap. Almost like there was no cap at all and the tank was upside down. OK time to land. The stream minimized as I leveled off and then almost down to nothing as I reduced power and settled into a normal approach. (less lift, less low pressure sucking the fuel out of the tank) After landing I checked the cap. It was on as tightly as always and the big O-ring looked fine. Perhaps the smaller O-ring broke. Perhaps the plastic washer broke, Perhaps the big O-ring just got too hard to hold fuel. Either way, they're 12 years old, so both O-rings on both tanks are getting replaced, and the plastic washers are getting replaced with stainless steel ones per Van's notice last year. The tank was about 3/4 full, and I estimate I lost over a gallon of fuel to the leak in no more than 2 minutes from takeoff up through about 1500'. I'm not sure what caused the leak yet, but I do know it can't be too big of a hole. At least nothing you'd ever expect that much gas to be pouring through. Andy ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:46 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.) but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.) With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to install everything before anything runs. And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the supercharger. Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day now :-) RV9A #90573 RV8ter@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >Stein, >The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor >comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here. >Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock >cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's >an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to >Crossflow. What do you think of that value? > >vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from >Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop at >5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end >engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go >higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs >well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually >require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should >be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know. > >I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to >know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already >ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned > for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming), >fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel >design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price), etc. > >I love this process! > >Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting >here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes >that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all >still goes per their wish. > >What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going >to end up doing? > >If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I >could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured, I >think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and >fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky, >despite the name. > >Only in America! > >off the box, >Lucky > > >In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >stein@steinair.com writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >Hmmmm.. > >If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! >Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra >$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! > >Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the >Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, >then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! >I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the >panel, etc... > >Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming >more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto >conversions is cost. > >But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll >leave it at that! > >Cheers, >Stein Bruch >RV6's, Minneapolis > >http://www.steinair.com > >Do Not Archive >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: RV8ter@aol.com >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com >> >>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. >> >>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. >> >>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >>production of your engine. >>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >>of your first payment >>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >>and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >>working properly. >>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 >> >>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>mstewart@iss.net writes: >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" >> >> >>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >>enormous! >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:01 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 RV8ter@aol.com wrote: > But it's > an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to > Crossflow. What do you think of that value? I've flown the Eggenfellner with the Quinte electric CS prop. It's a very nice combination. It would be nice to have the option of "conventional" CS prop, but the Quinte does work well. (I think it uses Warp Drive blades, but don't qoute me on that. Apparently, there's no problem with the carbon blades on a geared engine like the Eggenfellner, because of the smaller impulses and different frequency.) > What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going > to end up doing? I got a very good deal on a used Lycoming, which I will probably send to Bart at Aerosport. That's Plan A. But I'm keeping my eye on all the options. I was very keen on the rotary for a while, but it's still in the "roll your own" stage, and I don't want to do that just yet. Maybe my next plane. (I can hear the laughter from here.) The Eggenfellner is the best package out there right now, but I feel it's a tiny bit small for an RV-6. It's also more money than my rebuilt Lycoming will be (although maybe not, when all the bells and whistles are added). Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC do not archive ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:23 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com I haven't seen a HP per alt graph yet w/o the supercharger on the XT (in fact, I'm not sure I've seen one with it on) and would that change the MT prop setup (doubtful, I think). The thing with the Egg is I have yet to see one on a RV 8 and everytime I see it undressed I wonder how it would fit in the front half of a RV 8 cowl. So I don't buy into that bolt it on and go crap yet. I think that's yet to be seen on the 8. Hope it is though. Someday, someone with more time and smarts than me is going to put together a comprehensive, side by side, THOROUGH analysis of different RV friendly engines out there and include things like cowl options (Crossflow told me that are going to make and sell RV specific cowl solutions for example) and one can only hope there's a LOT of different types to consider. There's a worthy cause. Anyone up to it? lucky In a message dated 2/17/2004 6:37:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, retasker@optonline.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.) but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.) With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to install everything before anything runs. And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the supercharger. Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day now :-) RV9A #90573 RV8ter@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >Stein, >The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor >comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here. >Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock >cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's >an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to >Crossflow. What do you think of that value? > >vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from >Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop at >5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end >engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go >higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs >well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually >require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should >be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know. > >I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to >know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already >ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned > for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming), >fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel >design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price), etc. > >I love this process! > >Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting >here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes >that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all >still goes per their wish. > >What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going >to end up doing? > >If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I >could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured, I >think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and >fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky, >despite the name. > >Only in America! > >off the box, >Lucky > > >In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >stein@steinair.com writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >Hmmmm.. > >If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! >Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra >$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! > >Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the >Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, >then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! >I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the >panel, etc... > >Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming >more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto >conversions is cost. > >But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll >leave it at that! > >Cheers, >Stein Bruch >RV6's, Minneapolis > >http://www.steinair.com > >Do Not Archive >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: RV8ter@aol.com >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com >> >>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. >> >>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. >> >>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >>production of your engine. >>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >>of your first payment >>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >>and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >>working properly. >>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 >> >>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>mstewart@iss.net writes: >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" >> >> >>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >>enormous! >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:27 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" I should have know better than to get involved in this issue!! Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just plain cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in the air! That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a $38,000.00 pill for an engine..... Consider this, I built my recently complete RV6 (2nd one) for less than $30,0000.00 TOTAL, and that's with a 0SMOH O-320 (built myself), nice panel (with a Dynon), full interior, and good paint.... I agree the subies/rotaries are superior in many ways, in fact I think I've nearly convinced my Dad/Brother to put an Egg Subie on their RV9 that they are building. People like Jan Eggenfellner and Tracy Cook are doing wonders for this market, and it can only get better. I'm rather ambivolent about it, and I'm open minded enough to see both sides of the discussion, and don't have a firm position on either side of the fence. If and when I have enough money to purchase anything brand new, I'd be hard pressed to make a decision either way....you see, at the moment I keep a close eye on resale values and insurance costs (since I'll probably build and sell several of these over my lifetime)! Anyway, it's nice to see a spirited discussion with a lot of pro-active people. That's what makes this community such a great bunch of people! Cheers, Stein Bruch http://www.steinair.com Oh, and I've need to learn not to argue with people who've been very good customers of mine :) Do Not Archive ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Richard Tasker >--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker > >Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it >is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a >few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.) >but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no >cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is >closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose >clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.) > >With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to >install everything before anything runs. > >And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg >Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the >Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to >apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the >supercharger. > >Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day >now :-) >RV9A #90573 > >RV8ter@aol.com wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com >> >>Stein, >>The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine monitor >>comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from memory here. >>Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't shock >>cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. But it's >>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to >>Crossflow. What do you think of that value? >> >>vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from >>Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell CS prop at >>5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low end >>engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as you go >>higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really only runs >>well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will eventually >>require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But should >>be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know. >> >>I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage needing to >>know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have already >>ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo I planned >> for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a lycoming), >>fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore panel >>design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru price), etc. >> >>I love this process! >> >>Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier getting >>here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, makes >>that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's if all >>still goes per their wish. >> >>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going >>to end up doing? >> >>If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought I >>could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines matured, I >>think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can install and >>fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT lucky, >>despite the name. >> >>Only in America! >> >>off the box, >>Lucky >> >> >>In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>stein@steinair.com writes: >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" >> >>Hmmmm.. >> >>If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! >>Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra >>$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! >> >>Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the >>Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, >>then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! >>I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the >>panel, etc... >> >>Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries becoming >>more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally chosen auto >>conversions is cost. >> >>But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it is...we'll >>leave it at that! >> >>Cheers, >>Stein Bruch >>RV6's, Minneapolis >> >>http://www.steinair.com >> >>Do Not Archive >>---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >>From: RV8ter@aol.com >>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com >>> >>>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted flight >>>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the new >>>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. >>> >>>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it instead. >>> >>>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. >>>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the >>>production of your engine. >>>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the date >>>of your first payment >>>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your engine >>>and prior to the shipping of it to your location. >>>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and professional >>>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our >>>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your engine >>>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you >>>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well as >>>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is >>>working properly. >>>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 >>>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 >>>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 >>> >>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>>mstewart@iss.net writes: >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" >>> >>> >>>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based >>>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and >>>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by >>>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky >>>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 >>>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's >>>enormous! >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:52 PM PST US From: "lucky macy" Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? --> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" Less than $30K. In this day and age? You ARE the man - or a magician. I can't imagine that. Even the seats and belts are over a grand! The Dynon is a decent percentage of your plane. Cool. As an engineer, I'm the last person I want building my own engine :-) That's be sort of like a Dr. self medicating plus my wife probably wouldn't fly in it for quite a while. Ooops, that could be a plus. Better rethink. ;-) Seriously, putting an engine together sounds more fun than the airframe has generally been. How'd you do it? lucky >From: "Stein Bruch" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have >choicesfor once? >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:20:16 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >I should have know better than to get involved in this issue!! > >Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just >plain cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in >the air! That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a >$38,000.00 pill for an engine..... > >Consider this, I built my recently complete RV6 (2nd one) for less than >$30,0000.00 TOTAL, and that's with a 0SMOH O-320 (built myself), nice panel >(with a Dynon), full interior, and good paint.... > >I agree the subies/rotaries are superior in many ways, in fact I think I've >nearly convinced my Dad/Brother to put an Egg Subie on their RV9 that they >are building. People like Jan Eggenfellner and Tracy Cook are doing wonders >for this market, and it can only get better. I'm rather ambivolent about >it, and I'm open minded enough to see both sides of the discussion, and >don't have a firm position on either side of the fence. If and when I have >enough money to purchase anything brand new, I'd be hard pressed to make a >decision either way....you see, at the moment I keep a close eye on resale >values and insurance costs (since I'll probably build and sell several of >these over my lifetime)! > >Anyway, it's nice to see a spirited discussion with a lot of pro-active >people. That's what makes this community such a great bunch of people! > >Cheers, >Stein Bruch > >http://www.steinair.com > >Oh, and I've need to learn not to argue with people who've been very good >customers of mine :) > >Do Not Archive > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: Richard Tasker >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:35:30 -0500 > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker > > > >Don't forget to factor in the fact that with an Eggenfellner engine it > >is ready to bolt on for most applications. Yes, you have to connect a > >few things to the rest of the plane (fuel lines, electrical lines, etc.) > >but the engine will run right on the shipping pallet and there is no > >cooling baffling to add. Also the cost of the components stated is > >closer to $36.5K unless you add in a bunch of options (heater, hose > >clamp kit, Subaru owner's manual, etc.) > > > >With the Lyc and Van's FWF package there is still a lot of work to do to > >install everything before anything runs. > > > >And if you are adding the cost of the supercharger ($4500) into the Egg > >Subaru, remember that you get lots more HP at higher altitudes than the > >Lyc with this addition (which you mentioned). To compare apples to > >apples (relative to HP) you should probably leave off the cost of the > >supercharger. > > > >Dick Tasker, slightly biased since I am expecting my Egg engine any day > >now :-) > >RV9A #90573 > > > >RV8ter@aol.com wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >> > >>Stein, > >>The Egg 2.5XT with MT CS prop and and supercharger and EIS engine >monitor > >>comes out to something like $38K plus or minus a grand - going from >memory here. > >>Happy with Mogas, more powerfull than O-360 at all altitudes, doesn't >shock > >>cool, doesn't consume oil, smoother and quieter than a lycoming, etc. >But it's > >>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to > >>Crossflow. What do you think of that value? > >> > >>vs $32K Lycoming clone - the other end of the spectrum. An O-360 from > >>Mattituk for $19K, plus Van's RV8 FWF package for $4500, plus a Hatzell >CS prop at > >>5500. Now what you've got is $32+K in something once you also add a low >end > >>engine monitor and it's not as powerful at sea level and loses power as >you go > >>higher, requires you to fly with oil and be ready to top off, really >only runs > >>well with 100LL, isn't ECU controlled, isn't fuel injected, will >eventually > >>require an expensive overhaul, etc so it's a tough call for some. But >should > >>be easier and cheaper to insure but by how much I really don't know. > >> > >>I still don't know what I'm going to do yet and I'm past the stage >needing to > >>know that. So much revolves around that (call me nuts but I have >already > >>ordered my finishing kit but am not sold on the lycoming/hartzell combo >I planned > >> for). Fuel valve, tank plumbing (mine are sealed already for a >lycoming), > >>fuel pump, throttle quadrants, engine instrumentation and therefore >panel > >>design, cowl type, spinner type, engine mount (included in the subaru >price), etc. > >> > >>I love this process! > >> > >>Then there's Deltahawk. Man, if only they were two years earlier >getting > >>here. Never be the first to buy or last to try, as the old saying goes, >makes > >>that still a year or more away from being a serious candidate and that's >if all > >>still goes per their wish. > >> > >>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually >going > >>to end up doing? > >> > >>If the right used lycomig came along now at a fair price which I thought >I > >>could get 2 or 3 good years out of it while some of these new engines >matured, I > >>think I'd have to take it. But buying a good used engine you can >install and > >>fly sounds like worse odds than messin' with the devil. I ain't THAT >lucky, > >>despite the name. > >> > >>Only in America! > >> > >>off the box, > >>Lucky > >> > >> > >>In a message dated 2/17/2004 5:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >>stein@steinair.com writes: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >> > >>Hmmmm.. > >> > >>If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! > >>Yikes... Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for >$25K, that extra > >>$7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! > >> > >>Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the > >>Lycosaur, maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas >around $3.00, > >>then we're looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that >difference! > >>I'd rather take that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets >for the > >>panel, etc... > >> > >>Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited to see the Subies/Rotaries >becoming > >>more popular, but one big of the reasons people have traditionally >chosen auto > >>conversions is cost. > >> > >>But....I think $30,0000+ is an awfull lot of money for what it >is...we'll > >>leave it at that! > >> > >>Cheers, > >>Stein Bruch > >>RV6's, Minneapolis > >> > >>http://www.steinair.com > >> > >>Do Not Archive > >>---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > >>From: RV8ter@aol.com > >>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:10:57 EST > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >>> > >>>I got an updated proposal to include the mods needed for an inverted >flight > >>>oil system and hydraulic prop governor. Here's a cut and paste of the >new > >>>price paragraph. All told it added about $7500 to the cost. > >>> > >>>Mike, I can send you the updated proposal if you want to post it >instead. > >>> > >>>Our list price for the CF4-20 engine is US$24,955.00. > >>>A 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required initially to commence the > >>>production of your engine. > >>>A second 35% payment (US$8,734.25) will be required 2 months after the >date > >>>of your first payment > >>>The sum of US$7,486.50 will be required after the completion of your >engine > >>>and prior to the shipping of it to your location. > >>>We also recommend that you provide us with travel expenses and >professional > >>>accommodations for a 3 day stay for one of our > >>>technicians at your location to assist you in the installation of your >engine > >>>onto your firewall. During this time we will also provide you > >>>with some training about the operation of your Crossflow engine as well >as > >>>doing performance testing to ensure that everything is > >>>working properly. > >>>Crossflow Inverted Flight Oil System =E2=80=93 US$5,500.00 > >>>Crossflow PSRU Ancillary Drive Gears =E2=80=93 US$1,293.75 > >>>Crossflow PSRU Hydraulic Collar =E2=80=93 US$828.00 > >>> > >>>In a message dated 2/17/2004 10:41:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >>>mstewart@iss.net writes: > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > >>> > >>> > >>>I have been monitoring some of the click throughs on my web site based > >>>on rv-list activity and it is quite amazing to watch the interest and > >>>usage levels. Those who post answers, and the questions, are watched by > >>>the lurkers and they clearly find them useful. As an example. Lucky > >>>posted up his alternative engine proposal which has had over 2400 > >>>download attempts in just about a week. Holy cow batman! That's > >>>enormous! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:43 PM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >From: "Stein Bruch" Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just plain cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in the air! That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a $38,000.00 pill for an engine..... Hey, don't include us rotary heads in the 30K figure. As far as money goes, we've been relegated to the back 40 with the rest of the low lifes:-) Fuel injected 13B, 180+HP, gold powder coated, custom made but bought engine mount to fit my 7, drive unit, overhaul kit, two 0 tolerance end housing, computerized engine control, wood or metal prop, rads, totally installed..............I'm shooting for $9500 complete!! Not just the engine, we're talking fire it up on the airplane. No valves, no cam, no rods, no lifters.......................I'll have it at the flyin on the 28th. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:34 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Another transponder check question... --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Mine didn't they checked everything right in the airplane. Jerry do not archive Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > >Yes it will cause it will have to be bench tested. >I had to make a harness to go from my Mencoder to their bench. I sold >the unit but still have the harness I think. >Mike >Do not archive. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Balch >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Another transponder check question... > >--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch > >Does anyone know if my RMI microEncoder will have to come out of the >panel to be checked? There's just zero access to the rear while it's in > >place. Yes, I know I should have put an access door in the baggage >bulkhead, but I didn't... :-) > >Regards, >Ken Balch >Clermont, FL >RV-8 N118KB > > >== >== >== >== > > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:05 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: What is this engine worth? From: Mark Schrimmer RV-9 List --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Schrimmer Anybody care to guess what this engine is worth? The seller and I are trying to determine a fair price. Here are the details . . . Lycoming 0-320-E2D 150 h.p. Two cylinders in the 60s, two in the mid 70s Uses about 1 quart of oil every 10 hours Approximately 3,400 hours total time Approximately 1,200 hours since overhaul by an A&P Comes with a MA4-SPA carb with metal float Comes with a 149 tooth starter ring Uses an oil screen, not a filter Oil changed every 25 hours since overhaul All ADs complied with The present owner is going to re-use the accessories on his new engine, so the magnetos, starter, alternator, vacuum pump, oil cooler, etc. are not included. Thanks, Mark ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:07 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker You might want to take a look at the web site before you decide that is "a tiny bit small for an RV-6". I believe that the 2.5XT will outperform the Lyc 360. www.eggenfellneraircraft.com Dick Tasker. RV9A #90573 Tedd McHenry wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry > >On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 RV8ter@aol.com wrote: > > > >>But it's >>an electric prop governor and no inverted oil system as compared to >>Crossflow. What do you think of that value? >> >> > >I've flown the Eggenfellner with the Quinte electric CS prop. It's a very nice >combination. It would be nice to have the option of "conventional" CS prop, >but the Quinte does work well. (I think it uses Warp Drive blades, but don't >qoute me on that. Apparently, there's no problem with the carbon blades on a >geared engine like the Eggenfellner, because of the smaller impulses and >different frequency.) > > > >>What are folks looking at engines right now thinking they are actually going >>to end up doing? >> >> > >I got a very good deal on a used Lycoming, which I will probably send to Bart >at Aerosport. That's Plan A. But I'm keeping my eye on all the options. I >was very keen on the rotary for a while, but it's still in the "roll your own" >stage, and I don't want to do that just yet. Maybe my next plane. (I can hear >the laughter from here.) The Eggenfellner is the best package out there right >now, but I feel it's a tiny bit small for an RV-6. It's also more money than >my rebuilt Lycoming will be (although maybe not, when all the bells and >whistles are added). > >Tedd McHenry >Surrey, BC >do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:17 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choicesfor once? --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com 180 HP? How do you know since it's going to be your own make? Can they burn 100LL and mogas? And what's the average person really going to have in one when they are done? Can the PRSUs be adapted for CS props, etc? How do they rate compared to the Subaru 2.5 XT head to head? That would be interesting. They may not have some components you mention but I recall from the 80s when a friend had an early rx7 that they did have some kind of main seal or something unique that did need regular checkup and occasional replacing that was a royal pain to do. How do the rotary guys who have to roll their own figure out what to do safely enough? I mean, the engine is where I generally feel the least compelled to be "experimental" so I love lycomings in that sense. I don't even look at Rotarys because of the lack of a FWF package. Are all the components and a specific enough set of instructions available so that if you did all the purchasing yourself there's at least some good guidance? Are all the components needed that are unique premade and avaialable and it's just a matter of finding the appropriate vendor? Sounds interesting. Hope it works out! In a message dated 2/17/2004 7:54:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >From: "Stein Bruch" Of course you guys are mostly right, but I guess my main point was just plain cost. I'm all for the Subies/Rotaries and hope to see LOTS of them in the air! That being said, it's just harder for us "poor folk" to swallow a $38,000.00 pill for an engine..... Hey, don't include us rotary heads in the 30K figure. As far as money goes, we've been relegated to the back 40 with the rest of the low lifes:-) Fuel injected 13B, 180+HP, gold powder coated, custom made but bought engine mount to fit my 7, drive unit, overhaul kit, two 0 tolerance end housing, computerized engine control, wood or metal prop, rads, totally installed..............I'm shooting for $9500 complete!! Not just the engine, we're talking fire it up on the airplane. No valves, no cam, no rods, no lifters.......................I'll have it at the flyin on the 28th. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:42 PM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: RV-List: Compass Fluid, was Spraylat & Unmasked --> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" I've also heard that baby oil works in place of Kerosene for refilling compasses, but I've not tried this. Marty RV-6A NOT almost done Time: 07:01:36 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: SPRAYLAT & unmask --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Instead of kerosene, use my wife's favorite solvent -- lamp oil. It has no smell and other than that, I think it is just like kerosene. I used lamp oil for compass fluid in rebuilding an old compass I got at a fly mart -- much cheaper than A/C Spruce. There was a compass factory near here where my Mom worked, and kerosene was what they used for compass fluid. Ah, I got off the topic! Dan RV-7A N766DH almost done ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:02 PM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: RV-List: Alt-Trak --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" I finally got around to installing my Alt-Trak that I bought right after OSH before the price increase. You builders will giggle when I say I was intimidated by what "I" percieved to be a daunting task....... But I did it and it works!!!!! Actually it works GREAT!! My installation is an insult to the beautiful craftsmanship in my airplane, but I was satisified with the way it turned out and my mistakes are not visible without disassembly. As I was putting the baggage compartment back together it occured to me that the Dynon magnetometer was going to be about a foot and half or so from the servo and I thought, "now I will have another project...." but a test flight found it has no effect when off and the compass only moves a degree or two when the ALT hold is engaged. I flew around for half an hour and tried turns etc, straight and level it holds within 10, occasionally 20 feet. In a std rate turn it might lose 50 feet, but rolling out it come right back to the selected altitude. I turned it on, an left it on, and landed the airplane to prove it was not a problem and it wasn't. I am off to West Texas (1600nm round-trip) this weekend, so it will get a workout. So far, I'm very pleased with how easily it went in and how well it works. Thank you Mr. Younkin. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:10 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: RV-List: Fwd: Re: [VAF Mailing List] fuel filter Vs screen.... --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Mike I forgot to mention that the elements in the Flow Ezy filters are stainless steel mesh screens, like the Russell units mentioned by Bill Von Dane. Local RV-6 builder Eric Hensen had shown me a K & N fuel filter externally similar to the Russell filter. I checked it out. My objection to it (K & N) was that it offered less than two inches of filter surface area. (ie Easy to clog) My personal feeling is that I want as much surface area on the element of any filter in my aircraft, oil or fuel. The greater surface area of a large element affords a greater margin of safety in my book. Charlie PS I can send photos of the Flow Ezy filter element "off list" to anyone interested. --- Mike Rhodes <lezdriver@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Charles, > > It's a great "debate" subject and I agree with what you've said here. My safety concern is around >the potential use of an auto style fuel filter by a builder who may not appreciate the difference > between an auto and aircraft application. > > Thanks for the feedback on clearing that up. > > Happy tailwinds! > Mike > > --- Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Mike, > > I was asking this question while researching > which > > filter to use. Several filter manufacturers I > > investigated offered both mesh screens and paper > > elements. The manufacturers were unanimous in > their > > opinion that only a steel mesh screen should be > used > > for critical applications. > > I finally chose the Flow Ezy filter. This is the > > filter sold by Vans and Airflow Performance. Their > > elements are all stainless steel mesh. It is > > available > > in 3 models. They are of the same design. The > differ > > only in physical size and element size. The models > > are > > 4ILA, 6ILA (sold by Vans & Airflow) and the 15 > ILA. > > These units are offered with a variety of > differing > > filtration elements, ranging from 238 microns down > > to > > 25 microns. All of their elements are pleated, to > > increase the surface area available. > > You should contact Precision Airmotive, current > > manufacturer of the Marvel Schebler carbs used on > > Lycomings. > > > > http://www.precisionairmotive.com/ > > > > They should be able to recommend proper sizing of > > the > > filtration element for your project. > > > > Charlie Kuss > > > > --- Mike Rhodes <lezdriver@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > It seems to me that putting anything in the fuel > > > path > > > that would be finer than the metal mesh screen > in > > > the > > > gascolator is inviting trouble. Paper fuel > > filters > > > in > > > the micron range is fine for cars because you > > don't > > > have to deal with the most dangerous potential > > force > > > to airplanes.... gravity... and the only thing > > that > > > will defy it.... a running engine! > > > > > > It's perfectly fine to allow pieces in the fuel > to > > > move into the carb that will pass through the > > needle > > > jet, and that's the purpose of the screen mesh > > size > > > in > > > a gascolator. > > > > > > A paper/cloth pleated filter in an airplane that > > > requires fuel tank head pressure to make fuel > pass > > > through it before reaching the fuel pp.... not > in > > my > > > airplane! It doesn't matter how much surface > area > > a > > > filter has.... that only changes the time it > takes > > > until total obstruction. > > > > > > Mike Rhodes > > > Pilot/Builder & Mechanical Engr. ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:11 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Tedd, Four of us flew to OSH together in RV's. I was in one with a 160 HP O-320 + Ed Sterba Fixed Pitch Wood Prop. Also along was a Eggenfellner based RV7 with the MT (electric) CS prop. The RV6 was than the RV7 ***AT THE RPM's THE OWNER WAS WILLING TO TURN AT THE TIME***. (Note: He had *just* finished it (40.5 hrs.) and then flow it from California to the East Coast and from there to OSH). His plans were to add the supercharger later. The RV7 would **outclimb** the RV6 without a question. Thus I would put the performance in the range of the Lyc O-320 (160 HP) at the altitudes we were flying (<7000 ft). He is supposed to be MUCH better at altitude when the supercharger is added. Just FYI. James 180 HP O-360 in next project [SNIP] > the laughter from here.) The Eggenfellner is the best package > out there right > now, but I feel it's a tiny bit small for an RV-6. It's also > more money than > my rebuilt Lycoming will be (although maybe not, when all the bells and > whistles are added). > > Tedd McHenry > Surrey, BC > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:07 PM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing tip antennas --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com It fits in the RV-3 wingtip. Jim Ayers RV-3 N47RV Right wingtip COM antenna Modified from the wingtip NAV antenna ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:33 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: This list is powerful and helpful. From: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > If my math is correct, that now brings the price upwards of $32,000!! Yikes... > Considering you can get one hell of an IO-360 built up for $25K, that extra > $7k buys a LOT of fuel (or goodies)! > > Now, let's say that the crossflow "might" burn a lot less fuel than the Lycosaur, > maybe we'll be gratious and say 1.5gph, and price our gas around $3.00, then we're > looking at nearly 1700 hours of flying to pay for that difference! I'd rather take > that $7,000.00 and buy an autopilot, MT prop, gadgets for the panel, etc... Way to rich for my blood too. But... After 1700 hours, perhaps you'd better save the $7,000 for rebuilding your IO-360. Frank Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL (0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of Learning. Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your future ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:39 PM PST US From: "Mike Holland" Subject: RV-List: Attaching gear legs --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" Any good ideas on how to lift the fuselage to attach my 9A gear? I have an engine hoist but I don't think it will lift high enough. And I don't really have a good situation for an overhead hoist either (9 foot garage ceiling). Thanks ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:14 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: engines, engines, engines - wonderful to have choices for once? --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Richard Tasker wrote: > You might want to take a look at the web site before you decide that is > "a tiny bit small for an RV-6". I believe that the 2.5XT will > outperform the Lyc 360. I was referring to the basic 2.5. I'm quite familiar with the 2.5XT, and you're right, it is more powerful. Tedd