Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... (Jim Sears)
2. 03:22 AM - Re: WTB: RV-6 (Ken Balch)
3. 03:24 AM - Re: WTB: RV-6 (Ken Balch)
4. 03:27 AM - fuel return line / Mooney engine question (lucky macy)
5. 05:06 AM - Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys (linn walters)
6. 05:06 AM - Re: Mounting Instruments (linn walters)
7. 05:12 AM - Re: Dynon Info (linn walters)
8. 06:04 AM - (bertrv6@highstream.net)
9. 06:06 AM - Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys (Bob U.)
10. 06:13 AM - . (rob)
11. 06:13 AM - . (rob)
12. 06:22 AM - Tulsa Engine Services ()
13. 06:30 AM - Mag impulse assembly (George Frost)
14. 07:09 AM - Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale (Smcm75@aol.com)
15. 07:11 AM - MP/Ram Air Question (Scott Bilinski)
16. 07:21 AM - Re: fuel return line / Mooney engine question (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
17. 07:36 AM - Re: RV-charging systems was Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys (linn walters)
18. 07:47 AM - Re: Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale (Ron Walker)
19. 08:32 AM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (Ned Thomas)
20. 08:43 AM - Re: Halon fire extinguishers-size (David Carter)
21. 08:49 AM - Oshkosh Camping answer (Glen Matejcek)
22. 09:07 AM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (Scott Bilinski)
23. 09:19 AM - Re: flap motor failure (Doug Weiler)
24. 09:29 AM - Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys (Cy Galley)
25. 10:04 AM - Exhaust Bracket Failure (Kyle Boatright)
26. 10:04 AM - Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys (Bill Dube)
27. 10:14 AM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (David Carter)
28. 10:25 AM - Re: Camping at OSH (Kosta Lewis)
29. 10:53 AM - Re: Dynon Info (cecilth@juno.com)
30. 11:01 AM - RV-List New EFIS instrument add & company in Kitplanes (pcondon)
31. 11:01 AM - Re: Oshkosh Camping Question (cecilth@juno.com)
32. 11:02 AM - Honda alternator (Ned Thomas)
33. 11:32 AM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (Scott Bilinski)
34. 11:32 AM - Re: Dynon Info (Richard Tasker)
35. 12:20 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Larry Pardue)
36. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys ()
37. 12:59 PM - RSVP for Carson City Fly-in (BRUCE GRAY)
38. 01:01 PM - Camping at OSH (John)
39. 01:04 PM - Engine For Sale (JusCash@aol.com)
40. 01:05 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Bill VonDane)
41. 01:09 PM - Re: Tulsa Engine Services (RV8ter@aol.com)
42. 01:16 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Smcm75@aol.com)
43. 01:58 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Laird Owens)
44. 02:06 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Larry Pardue)
45. 02:16 PM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (Kevin Horton)
46. 02:33 PM - alternators (Wheeler North)
47. 02:39 PM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (Bob U.)
48. 02:57 PM - Re: alternator cooling (Jim Jewell)
49. 03:07 PM - Re: alternators (Ned Thomas)
50. 03:46 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Stein Bruch)
51. 03:46 PM - Re: alternators (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
52. 03:55 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
53. 03:56 PM - Re: Honda alternator (Bill Dube)
54. 04:01 PM - finishing up sequence of events? (RV8ter@aol.com)
55. 04:44 PM - Re: finishing up sequence of events? (Greg Young)
56. 05:08 PM - Re: Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale (J. R. Dial)
57. 05:18 PM - Re: alternators (Jim Sears)
58. 05:41 PM - Re: alternators (Jerry Springer)
59. 06:35 PM - Re: finishing up sequence of events? (Vince Himsl)
60. 06:35 PM - Langley Fly-in 2004 (Tedd McHenry)
61. 07:20 PM - Re: alternator cooling (LarryRobertHelming)
62. 07:42 PM - Re: alternators (Cy Galley)
63. 07:59 PM - Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed)
64. 08:13 PM - Re: MP/Ram Air Question (John Huft)
65. 08:18 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jim Cimino)
66. 08:21 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Terry Watson)
67. 08:23 PM - Re: alternator cooling (Jim Jewell)
68. 08:45 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed)
69. 08:45 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed)
70. 08:59 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (linn walters)
71. 09:00 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (linn walters)
72. 09:02 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Ross Scroggs)
73. 09:25 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed)
74. 10:00 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jim Jewell)
75. 11:06 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Dan Checkoway)
76. 11:09 PM - Re: RSA Injection Basics, was (Help me stop my engine) . (Stein Bruch)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
I appreciate Matt's explanation. I got one yesterday that was addressed
from the staff of my ISP. At the time, I was having problems with my
e-mail; so, it seemed legitimate. I even had to go to the ISP's backup
mailer to get my mail.
I did hit that little button and really woke up my Norton software! Big red
screens popped up to alert me. Thank goodness for the software. It's worth
every penny I pay for it.
Jim Sears in KY
do not archive
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
Hi Karie,
Thanks for the tips. I'm aware of both these airplanes. The one for
which you provided a link has two things going against it for me: it's a
tip-up and it's WAY more than I want to spend for a -6. I've exchanged
some email with Peter Booth and, while I agree it's a beautiful plane (I
remember seeing it at SnF '02 and talking with Eric Newton about it for
a while), it's also got a few strikes against it for me: it's a -6A,
it's got an overhaul of unproven provenance (field overhaul by some
random A&P to new limits? service limits? who knows?) and it's got a
wood prop. Thanks for spotting these two, though!!
I finished my RV-8 in 2002 and I do love building (I'm just getting
started on my next project, a Pitts Model 12), but I'm looking to buy a
finished and flying -6 in the next month or two. I'm in the middle of
starting up an RV transition training business and will use the -6 for
that purpose. No time to build one... :-)
Best Regards,
Ken
Karie Daniel wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" <karie4@comcast.net>
>
>http://www.dfwrepo.com/html/rv-6.html
>
>Here's a link to one for sale. Also Trade-a-plane.com has this one and another
one listed. Email pbooth@bellsouth.net or someone here might have a link to his
web site, a beautiful plane.
>
>Karie Daniel
>RV-7A
>Sammamish, WA
>
>Why don't ya just build one though? Where's the fun in just buying one? :-)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: WTB: RV-6
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
>>
>>Nice, clean, low-time RV-6. 160hp or 180hp. Engine either factory new
>>when plane was built, or overhauled to new limits by established shop.
>>Sensenich metal prop or Hartzell c/s. Slider canopy. Brakes on both
>>sides. VFR with gyros.
>>
>>Please email me directly with specs & pictures.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Ken Balch
>>RV-8 N118KB
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
My apologies to the list for not sending my last reply directly to
Karie. It's six AM here and I hit send before remembering to change the
reply address.
do not archive
Ken
Karie Daniel wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" <karie4@comcast.net>
>
>http://www.dfwrepo.com/html/rv-6.html
>
>Here's a link to one for sale. Also Trade-a-plane.com has this one and another
one listed. Email pbooth@bellsouth.net or someone here might have a link to his
web site, a beautiful plane.
>
>Karie Daniel
>RV-7A
>Sammamish, WA
>
>Why don't ya just build one though? Where's the fun in just buying one? :-)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: WTB: RV-6
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
>>
>>Nice, clean, low-time RV-6. 160hp or 180hp. Engine either factory new
>>when plane was built, or overhauled to new limits by established shop.
>>Sensenich metal prop or Hartzell c/s. Slider canopy. Brakes on both
>>sides. VFR with gyros.
>>
>>Please email me directly with specs & pictures.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Ken Balch
>>RV-8 N118KB
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | fuel return line / Mooney engine question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
I have an IO-360-A1B6D from a Mooney. The markings on the FI servo said
Bendix RSA-SAD1
Precision Air Motor Corp FC MAB
I don't have any Lycoming/Mooney documentation with the engine. I will get
an overhaul manual but I doubt it will tell me this question. Any idea if a
fuel return line was used on the Mooney?
Even if it wasn't used on the Mooney, would it ever a *bad* concept to
implement on a RV?
Does the return need to go to a fuel tank or just Teed back to the fuel line
upstream of the fuel selector vavle? My tanks are *done* so I'm hopinig not
to go there.
thanks,
lucky
----Original Message Follows----
From: "David Rogers" <davidrgr@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [rv8list] Re: FloScan transducer mounting
What are the pros/cons of one system over the other ?
Does the Airflow Perf unit give you more HP ?
How does the Bendix system eliminate the need for the fuel return ?
Dave R.
RV-8 (wings)
-----Original Message-----
From: mahlon_r [mailto:mahlon_russell@teledyne.com]
Subject: [rv8list] Re: FloScan transducer mounting
Brian,
The Precison/Bendix fuel injection system that comes standard on a
Lycoming IO-360 does not need or use a fuel return. If on the other
hand, you are going to use a AirFlow performance fuel injection
system the fuel return is required.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
-- In rv8list@yahoogroups.com, "bcross2160rv8" <BCROSS2160@R...>
wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> On this subject, I have been trying to figure out for awhile what
> type of fuel valve do I require.
>
> I plan to use an IO360 with the Andair fuel valve. What I do not
know
> is if I need to get the expensive one which returns a portion of
the
> fuel to the tank selected? I assume that in the injected models,
> some of the fuel has to be returned to tank to keep the fuel cool.
I
> am obviously over my head on this one & would really appreciate
some
> advice on this.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Brian #81844
>
>
> -- In rv8list@yahoogroups.com, "Danny King" <danny.king@c...> wrote:
> > Guys,
> > I saw a flying RV-8 the other day with all of the fuel components
> hanging on the firewall or motor mount. I ask him if he was having
> any weird fuel pressure readings. He said that his fuel pressure
> readings were all over the place. He had an angle valve I0360 200
hp
> engine. I couldn't help but flash back to my first homebuilt. It
> was a Pitts S1S with a PS-5C pressure carb and Christen Inverted
> system. I mounted the Pitts electric Airborne boast pump on the
> firewall along with the gascolator. All was well after that first
> flight on December 15, 1983 but by the late spring of 1984 I got a
> real scare when the fuel pressure started to drop. The Bendix PS-
5C
> requires approx. 14 psi to work. It is kinda like a throttle body
> injection (part carburetor and part fuel injection). I found that
> the Texas heat, and having those fuel components on the firewall
side
> was incompatible! I replumbed the Pitts and moved all fuel
> components to cockpit side of the firewall. All my problems went
> away!
> >
> > When planning the Doll's fuel system, I took the lessons learned
> and followed the very simple Grumman AA1 setup. The Grumman AA-
1A
> I owned for 23 years DID NOT HAVE A GASCOLATOR. In fact it used a
> tank drains at the low point just like the RV-8. If you drain your
> tanks prior to the first flight, then there will be no water in the
> system.
> > Second, if all fuel system plumbing is behind the firewall, there
> will be no vapor lock (fuel boiling) problems. The Doll is set up
> this way. After the (through the firewall) fitting, there is a 303
> hose to the engine fuel pump, and the rest is the way Lycoming
ships
> the engine to you!
> >
> > I also had a fuel flow transducer in my Grumman AA1-A. It was
> mounted just after the fuel valve, and it work perfectly! So I put
> the transducer in the Doll right after the elbow fitting coming out
> of the bottom of the fuel valve. Nearly 400 hours later, you
guessed
> it... it works perfectly! When I refuel, the total fuel to refill
> the Doll, and the amount used on the Electronics International fuel
> computer are within 1/10 of a gal.
> >
> > I decided to aim the vent line tubes strait down, and I did not
> turn them into the slip stream. I cut them off at an angle to
cause
> some pressurization. I thought about the bug issue as well.
> >
> > I'm not an engineer, and I am not saying that I did it the best
> way. Therefore, I only offer this as a away that I have found to
be
> successful on my former Grumman AA1-A, Pitts S1S, and the Doll.
> >
> > Danny King
> > Beautiful Doll 80434
> > ===========================
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jross10612@a...
> > To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: chaskuss@y...
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:32 AM
> > Subject: [rv8list] FloScan transducer mounting
> >
> >
> > Charlie:
> >
> > I have my FloScan transducer mounted between the fuel injector
> servo and the
> > distribution block. It is mounted on a small plate that I made;
> that plate
> > meets at two tubes in the engine mount and is attached by two
> Adel clamps.
> > Flexible hose (firesleeved) is used to run in and out of the
> transducer, with
> > straight fittings on the transducer itself. There is a gently
> curved fitting on the
> > flexible hose on the outlet side. I have a blast tube pointed
at
> the
> > transducer, which runs to the top rear engine baffle. Between
the
> engine mounts, Adel
> > clamp rubber and flexible fuel lines, I think I have the
> vibration problem
> > under control. The cooling should be a non issue because of the
> blast tube. (At
> > least when there is airflow when moving)
> >
> > There really is no place to put the FloScan transducer which
> meets all
> > concerns we can think of. Talk to Don Rivera at Airflow
> Performance and he will tell
> > you not to install one at all; he is just too concerned about
> bubbles and
> > cavitation.
> >
> > I have tried to pick a place to mount the transducer that meets
> all
> > requirements as best as possible. I fully agree with your
> comments about the thermal
> > concerns of a transducer that is made of several materials, but
> I've tried to
> > minimize that issue as best that I can. The blast tube in the
> photo of the
> > installation is not seen well in the photo due to the engine
lord
> mount.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, roll your own and don't go too crazy trying to engineer
> every issue
> > into a solution that considers everything.
> >
> > I have a wing root mounted gascolator. I'm thinking about
> removing it because
> > it may be of dubious value. All of the plumbing and potential
for
> leaks may
> > well negate the benefit of the gascolator. But old ideas die
> hard, and the
> > gascolator is a place for filtration and for water to settle
out
> as fuel passes
> > through it. But then all of the turns in the tubing, gentle as
> they are may be a
> > place for fuel turbulence to start. I'll probably leave it in
> because of the
> > filter in the gascolator and he fact that I have not installed
> any other
> > filter. On the other hand Danny King (as well as others) have
> been operating just
> > fine without a gascolator.
> >
> > My point is that if you talk to a fuel system engineer (like
> Caesar Gonazales
> > of Cessna fame) and follow all of the engineering principles
and
> accepted
> > practices when designing a fuel system you will end up with a
> compromise
> > somewhere. One of the things about the RV airplanes is the
poorly
> designed fuel vent
> > system. It's a major no-no to use 1/4 " fuel vent lines simply
> because a single
> > drop of water may freeze in the vent line and cause fuel flow
> problems.
> > Couple this with the fuel vents facing forward into the
> slipstream on the RV-8 and
> > you have a real potential for fuel vent icing if you were to
fly
> into any
> > freezing rain. Or maybe even bugs on a hot day could obstruct
the
> fuel vent. But
> > then the RV-8 was intended to be a VFR sport plane and not to
be
> flown IFR.
> >
> > If I had it to do over I'd put 3/8" fuel vent lines in my
> airplane. Why Van
> > did not do this in the first place is puzzling. On the other
> hand, we don't
> > seem to hear about fuel vent problems on the RV airplanes
either.
> >
> > Anyway, just food for thought.
> >
> > Jon Ross
> > 80094 Wing Paint
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
> >
> > IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO :
> >
> > rv8list-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
> ----------
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rv8list/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > rv8list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO :
rv8list-unsubscribe@egroups.com
_____
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rv8list/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rv8list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:rv8list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar includes FREE pop-up blocking!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Cy Galley wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>I am fairly sure without the "ballast" of the battery, your regulator will
>quickly give up the ghost.
>
This hasn't been my (limited) experience. It may be due to differences
in regulators or due to the fact that there was some load available,
although the battery wasn't part of it. I don't see any reason,
technically, for the system to run away with a fully functioning
regulator. Maybe someone else can help out here.
>I know the battery filters out the ripple of the
>current and many electrical noises within the system.
>
The diode array in the alternator does 99% of the ripple removing.
Under full load, the remaining ripple may become noticeable in cheap
intercoms etc. It is true that the battery will filter some of the crap
that ends up on the power bus, but it's a poor filter .... otherwise we
wouldn't be chasing strobe and flasher noise. In this case 'it all
depends' may be useful as electrical systems are, by their nature,
terribly dynamic.
Linn
>
>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
>
>Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Instruments |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Vanremog@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 3/3/2004 6:56:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
>Typically the instruments are mounted with black anodized brass screws.
>
>Linn meant black oxided brass screws. Brass can't be anodized.
>
This is true! Brain f--t!!! Mea Culpa! My apologies.
Linn
do not archive
>
>
>GV (RV-6A N1GV flying 675 hrs)
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Speaking of show specials - is this pretty common?
>
Yes. You can bargain a little better towards the end of the show if
they have the stuff in stiock. they don't want to pack it all up, haul
it 'home' and then unpack it again! You can always get a price at one
vendor, have him write it on a business card and leverage another
vendor. Walking back and forth a few times can be rewarding ..... but
also a waste of time.
>I've got a lot of stuff to buy, and I can wait
>until SNF. Do people usually require cash or
>can you "buy" and then have them ship and pay
>for it later?
>
Actually, I've done it both ways. You can buy it at the show and have
it shipped from their home base and avoid sales tax (in FL) most of the
time.
Linn
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
>
>
>>Don't know if they will have a "show special" price, but one
>>can hope... :-)
>>
>>
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
Have a question, I see there are 3 sizes of halon extinguishers, what
is best size use for our rv6?
Comments appreciated
Bert
rv6a
Do Not archive
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
linn walters wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>>
>>I am fairly sure without the "ballast" of the battery, your regulator will
>>quickly give up the ghost.
>>
>>
>>
>This hasn't been my (limited) experience. It may be due to differences
>in regulators or due to the fact that there was some load available,
>although the battery wasn't part of it. I don't see any reason,
>technically, for the system to run away with a fully functioning
>regulator. Maybe someone else can help out here.
>
I've had a regulator "give up the ghost" with diasterout results and
expensive results, so it DOES happen.
>
>
>
>>I know the battery filters out the ripple of the
>>current and many electrical noises within the system.
>>
>>
>>
>The diode array in the alternator does 99% of the ripple removing.
>Under full load, the remaining ripple may become noticeable in cheap
>intercoms etc. It is true that the battery will filter some of the crap
>that ends up on the power bus, but it's a poor filter .... otherwise we
>wouldn't be chasing strobe and flasher noise. In this case 'it all
>depends' may be useful as electrical systems are, by their nature,
>terribly dynamic.
>
>Linn
>
A battery provides "ripple free" DC.
The alternator cannot.
For my money, I prefer to think of the battery as the provider
of electrical power and the alternator to keep the battery charged.
YMMV.
Bob
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
"Rv8-List" <rv8-list@matronics.com>, "Rv9-List" <rv9-list@matronics.com>,
"Rv-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: "rob" <edmist_r@bellsouth.net>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "rob" <edmist_r@bellsouth.net>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tulsa Engine Services |
--> RV-List message posted by: <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com>
>>>>Listers,
What was the name of the engine shop in Oklahoma mentioned recently on the
list? I couldn't find it in the archives.
Thanks,
Dan RV-7A (almost done)
>>>>>
Sounds like you are doing your own rebuild. I just did that so I thought I'd give
you a run down on what I found. Maybe it will benefit someone.
If you want your steel parts refurbed in Tulsa you are looking for Aircraft Specialties
Inc. They did all of my internal parts, resurfaced everything and yellow
tags for everything for $1800.00 . They sold me a rebuild kit that contains
all hardware you'll need for $800.00. There's your bottom end overhaul. BTW,
most of the cost is the connecting rod bolts. Ouch! My cases were done by Divco.
For $700.00 they line bore, check for cracks, resurface everything. They are
absolutely beautiful when you get them back. Next engine, I will do the same
thing, but I might be tempted to give ole Monte Barret a call and ask him how
much he wants to assemble and test the thing. Monte builds high perf competition
aerobatic engines. He's right next door to Aircraft Specialties. He chased
down some parts for me and was great to work with and was more than reasonable.
Basically you could disassemble your engine ship it off and get back a fresh
engine. You would be skipping the markup the builders charge you to ship your
parts out. When a builder ships a crank out, from my experience, they charge
you near double the cost of the machine shops price. If you have a bendix fuel
injection, Air Flow Performance made my entire FI system brand spanking new
for $650.00, they replace everything but the body. For Mags I found a guy named
Howard Libersky in Okechobee, Fl that rebuilt each mag completely for $120.00
flat out. He's been doing mags since they were cutting edge technology. His
number is (863-467-6464). I put new ECI Titan cylinders on since it was not much
more than having my old work cylinders reworked. All told, I figure I've got
about $13,500.00 invested and I'm damn confident in my engine (big thanks to
Charlie Kuss).
Hope it helps
Eric Henson
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
"Rv8-List" <rv8-list@matronics.com>, "Rv9-List" <rv9-list@matronics.com>,
"Rv-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Mag impulse assembly |
--> RV-List message posted by: George Frost <ghfrost@earthlink.net>
I need an impulse assembly for a slick magneto, part number M3529.
Anyone have an extra one for sale or can suggest a source? AC Spruce
is out of stock.
George
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
Hey guys:
I have an unused Van's seat cushion kit in the original box for sale. Paid
$195 will let go for $160 and I will pay the shipping in the US. Interested
please call 703-724-0874 0900 to 1800 EST
Thanks,
Scott Morrow
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and what
can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about 1" MP
increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a bigger
FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
appreciated.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
do not archive
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | fuel return line / Mooney engine question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
Lucky
My Bendix RSA-???? does not need a return line the continental fuel
injection is the one that needs the return line.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of lucky macy
vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV-List: fuel return line / Mooney engine question
--> RV-List message posted by: "lucky macy" <luckymacy@hotmail.com>
I have an IO-360-A1B6D from a Mooney. The markings on the FI servo said
Bendix RSA-SAD1
Precision Air Motor Corp FC MAB
I don't have any Lycoming/Mooney documentation with the engine. I will get
an overhaul manual but I doubt it will tell me this question. Any idea if a
fuel return line was used on the Mooney?
Even if it wasn't used on the Mooney, would it ever a *bad* concept to
implement on a RV?
Does the return need to go to a fuel tank or just Teed back to the fuel line
upstream of the fuel selector vavle? My tanks are *done* so I'm hopinig not
to go there.
thanks,
lucky
----Original Message Follows----
From: "David Rogers" <davidrgr@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [rv8list] Re: FloScan transducer mounting
What are the pros/cons of one system over the other ?
Does the Airflow Perf unit give you more HP ?
How does the Bendix system eliminate the need for the fuel return ?
Dave R.
RV-8 (wings)
-----Original Message-----
From: mahlon_r [mailto:mahlon_russell@teledyne.com]
Subject: [rv8list] Re: FloScan transducer mounting
Brian,
The Precison/Bendix fuel injection system that comes standard on a
Lycoming IO-360 does not need or use a fuel return. If on the other
hand, you are going to use a AirFlow performance fuel injection
system the fuel return is required.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
-- In rv8list@yahoogroups.com, "bcross2160rv8" <BCROSS2160@R...>
wrote:
> Hi Folks
>
> On this subject, I have been trying to figure out for awhile what
> type of fuel valve do I require.
>
> I plan to use an IO360 with the Andair fuel valve. What I do not
know
> is if I need to get the expensive one which returns a portion of
the
> fuel to the tank selected? I assume that in the injected models,
> some of the fuel has to be returned to tank to keep the fuel cool.
I
> am obviously over my head on this one & would really appreciate
some
> advice on this.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Brian #81844
>
>
> -- In rv8list@yahoogroups.com, "Danny King" <danny.king@c...> wrote:
> > Guys,
> > I saw a flying RV-8 the other day with all of the fuel components
> hanging on the firewall or motor mount. I ask him if he was having
> any weird fuel pressure readings. He said that his fuel pressure
> readings were all over the place. He had an angle valve I0360 200
hp
> engine. I couldn't help but flash back to my first homebuilt. It
> was a Pitts S1S with a PS-5C pressure carb and Christen Inverted
> system. I mounted the Pitts electric Airborne boast pump on the
> firewall along with the gascolator. All was well after that first
> flight on December 15, 1983 but by the late spring of 1984 I got a
> real scare when the fuel pressure started to drop. The Bendix PS-
5C
> requires approx. 14 psi to work. It is kinda like a throttle body
> injection (part carburetor and part fuel injection). I found that
> the Texas heat, and having those fuel components on the firewall
side
> was incompatible! I replumbed the Pitts and moved all fuel
> components to cockpit side of the firewall. All my problems went
> away!
> >
> > When planning the Doll's fuel system, I took the lessons learned
> and followed the very simple Grumman AA1 setup. The Grumman AA-
1A
> I owned for 23 years DID NOT HAVE A GASCOLATOR. In fact it used a
> tank drains at the low point just like the RV-8. If you drain your
> tanks prior to the first flight, then there will be no water in the
> system.
> > Second, if all fuel system plumbing is behind the firewall, there
> will be no vapor lock (fuel boiling) problems. The Doll is set up
> this way. After the (through the firewall) fitting, there is a 303
> hose to the engine fuel pump, and the rest is the way Lycoming
ships
> the engine to you!
> >
> > I also had a fuel flow transducer in my Grumman AA1-A. It was
> mounted just after the fuel valve, and it work perfectly! So I put
> the transducer in the Doll right after the elbow fitting coming out
> of the bottom of the fuel valve. Nearly 400 hours later, you
guessed
> it... it works perfectly! When I refuel, the total fuel to refill
> the Doll, and the amount used on the Electronics International fuel
> computer are within 1/10 of a gal.
> >
> > I decided to aim the vent line tubes strait down, and I did not
> turn them into the slip stream. I cut them off at an angle to
cause
> some pressurization. I thought about the bug issue as well.
> >
> > I'm not an engineer, and I am not saying that I did it the best
> way. Therefore, I only offer this as a away that I have found to
be
> successful on my former Grumman AA1-A, Pitts S1S, and the Doll.
> >
> > Danny King
> > Beautiful Doll 80434
> > ===========================
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jross10612@a...
> > To: rv8list@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: chaskuss@y...
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:32 AM
> > Subject: [rv8list] FloScan transducer mounting
> >
> >
> > Charlie:
> >
> > I have my FloScan transducer mounted between the fuel injector
> servo and the
> > distribution block. It is mounted on a small plate that I made;
> that plate
> > meets at two tubes in the engine mount and is attached by two
> Adel clamps.
> > Flexible hose (firesleeved) is used to run in and out of the
> transducer, with
> > straight fittings on the transducer itself. There is a gently
> curved fitting on the
> > flexible hose on the outlet side. I have a blast tube pointed
at
> the
> > transducer, which runs to the top rear engine baffle. Between
the
> engine mounts, Adel
> > clamp rubber and flexible fuel lines, I think I have the
> vibration problem
> > under control. The cooling should be a non issue because of the
> blast tube. (At
> > least when there is airflow when moving)
> >
> > There really is no place to put the FloScan transducer which
> meets all
> > concerns we can think of. Talk to Don Rivera at Airflow
> Performance and he will tell
> > you not to install one at all; he is just too concerned about
> bubbles and
> > cavitation.
> >
> > I have tried to pick a place to mount the transducer that meets
> all
> > requirements as best as possible. I fully agree with your
> comments about the thermal
> > concerns of a transducer that is made of several materials, but
> I've tried to
> > minimize that issue as best that I can. The blast tube in the
> photo of the
> > installation is not seen well in the photo due to the engine
lord
> mount.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, roll your own and don't go too crazy trying to engineer
> every issue
> > into a solution that considers everything.
> >
> > I have a wing root mounted gascolator. I'm thinking about
> removing it because
> > it may be of dubious value. All of the plumbing and potential
for
> leaks may
> > well negate the benefit of the gascolator. But old ideas die
> hard, and the
> > gascolator is a place for filtration and for water to settle
out
> as fuel passes
> > through it. But then all of the turns in the tubing, gentle as
> they are may be a
> > place for fuel turbulence to start. I'll probably leave it in
> because of the
> > filter in the gascolator and he fact that I have not installed
> any other
> > filter. On the other hand Danny King (as well as others) have
> been operating just
> > fine without a gascolator.
> >
> > My point is that if you talk to a fuel system engineer (like
> Caesar Gonazales
> > of Cessna fame) and follow all of the engineering principles
and
> accepted
> > practices when designing a fuel system you will end up with a
> compromise
> > somewhere. One of the things about the RV airplanes is the
poorly
> designed fuel vent
> > system. It's a major no-no to use 1/4 " fuel vent lines simply
> because a single
> > drop of water may freeze in the vent line and cause fuel flow
> problems.
> > Couple this with the fuel vents facing forward into the
> slipstream on the RV-8 and
> > you have a real potential for fuel vent icing if you were to
fly
> into any
> > freezing rain. Or maybe even bugs on a hot day could obstruct
the
> fuel vent. But
> > then the RV-8 was intended to be a VFR sport plane and not to
be
> flown IFR.
> >
> > If I had it to do over I'd put 3/8" fuel vent lines in my
> airplane. Why Van
> > did not do this in the first place is puzzling. On the other
> hand, we don't
> > seem to hear about fuel vent problems on the RV airplanes
either.
> >
> > Anyway, just food for thought.
> >
> > Jon Ross
> > 80094 Wing Paint
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
> >
> > IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO :
> >
> > rv8list-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
> ----------
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rv8list/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > rv8list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits.
IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO :
rv8list-unsubscribe@egroups.com
_____
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rv8list/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rv8list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:rv8list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar includes FREE pop-up blocking!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-charging systems was Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Bob U. wrote:
>I've had a regulator "give up the ghost" with diasterout results and
>expensive results, so it DOES happen.
>
Oh yeah! I feel your pain.
>>I know the battery filters out the ripple of the
>>current and many electrical noises within the system.
>>
>A battery provides "ripple free" DC.
>The alternator cannot.
>
Blow some diodes in the bridge and see how ripple free that battery gets
you! You'll hear whine in your headset that varies with engine RPM, and
the only way to get rid of it is to replace the diode stack. Like I
said, the battery will help with fine ripple, but just can't step up to
the plate if the ripple is significant. The diode stack is pretty good
at rectifying the AC (alternators by nature are AC, Generators DC) and
reduces the ripple down to almost zip and the battery can take care of
the rest.
>For my money, I prefer to think of the battery as the provider
>of electrical power and the alternator to keep the battery charged.
>
While the engine is running and the alternator is online, the alternator
is supplying battery recharge current and all load current. If, by some
malfunction, the alternator output (nominally 13.6V) drops below battery
voltage (nominally 12V), then the battery would be supplying some of the
load current, the amount depending on how low the alternator output gets.
>YMMV.
>
If you want to protect your pricey radios from a runaway alternator
scenario, get the overvoltage protector from http://www.aeroelectric.com/
Linn
do not archive
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
This is probably the 3rd or 4th time i've seen someone selling their Van's
seat cushions in the past few months. Is there something about them that is
disliked ? What are you guys going with instead ? I'm curious because I'm at
the point of needing some cushions and perhaps you guys have some insight to
share ?
Ron
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
Hi Scott,
I am still learning about these things but maybe I can help. I'm curious
how you deduced the 1" MP increase due to ram air? It is interesting because
at 170 mph you can expect about 1" of mercury pressure available at the air
box. This can be calculated based on the formula for the dynamic pressure of
a fluid where
P = (V**2 d)/288 g
where:
P = lbs per sq. inch (psi)
V = Velocity in feet per second (1mph = 1446 fps)
d = density of air in pounds pwe cu. ft., standard sea level air density
0.0762 pounds per cubic foot.
g = acceleration of gravity in feet per second (32.2 feet per second)
Based on this formulation at:
170 mph =~1"hg
300 mph =~3"hg
To increase your Ram air pressure you can eliminate pressure drops, across
air filters, induction systems, etc. For example a poorly designed air box
may have a large pressure drop. Porting of the intake manifold and intake
chambers on the head can help reduce pressure drop. Keep in mind that you
are working with rather small increases in performance here for increasingly
higher dollar costs. If you have the Van's FAB then you probably have a very
low psi drop air box already.
Your Fellow RV Enthusiast,
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and what
> can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about 1"
MP
> increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a bigger
> FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
> appreciated.
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
> do not archive
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Halon fire extinguishers-size |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Bert,
I assume you are talking about the hand-held extinguishers. There should be
an FAA recommendation or requirement (for those "other" airplanes) that
would provide a reasonable value of size. The Cessna 172 that I fly has an
extinguisher on the floor between the seats - about a foot long. Probably
any aviation mechanic could tell you the size.
On the other hand, I'm planning to put in a wand system in my engine
compartment to kill any fire that starts up there. Haven't decided how big
a tank yet - want about 15 seconds total discharge time, if I remember
correctly.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: <bertrv6@highstream.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
>
>
> Hi:
>
> Have a question, I see there are 3 sizes of halon extinguishers, what
> is best size use for our rv6?
>
>
> Comments appreciated
>
>
> Bert
> rv6a
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Oshkosh Camping answer |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
You forgot to mention that the air mattress will float during the requisite
annual deluge!
do not archive
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Dont remember where I came up with 1"???? Somewhere somebody posted the
calculated pressure available at 8k density alt for a standard day?. Well
we have had a few standard days here in the last month, I checked and saw
1" more than calculated at 185 MPH. Have no idea if this is right. I have
paid real attention to detail on sealing up everything I can on the air
box. It pained me to even add the drain hole for the FAB.
Now after all this I just remember I was told that you cannot use the
barometric pressure as a comparison/base line to MP. Any info on this? How
and why are they different? If barometric pressure is 30.0 would max
manifold pressure also be the same barring any losses in the system?
At 10:34 AM 3/4/04 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
>
>Hi Scott,
>
>I am still learning about these things but maybe I can help. I'm curious
>how you deduced the 1" MP increase due to ram air? It is interesting because
>at 170 mph you can expect about 1" of mercury pressure available at the air
>box. This can be calculated based on the formula for the dynamic pressure of
>a fluid where
>
>P = (V**2 d)/288 g
>
>where:
>
> P = lbs per sq. inch (psi)
>V = Velocity in feet per second (1mph = 1446 fps)
>d = density of air in pounds pwe cu. ft., standard sea level air density
>0.0762 pounds per cubic foot.
>g = acceleration of gravity in feet per second (32.2 feet per second)
>
>Based on this formulation at:
>
>170 mph =~1"hg
>300 mph =~3"hg
>
>To increase your Ram air pressure you can eliminate pressure drops, across
>air filters, induction systems, etc. For example a poorly designed air box
>may have a large pressure drop. Porting of the intake manifold and intake
>chambers on the head can help reduce pressure drop. Keep in mind that you
>are working with rather small increases in performance here for increasingly
>higher dollar costs. If you have the Van's FAB then you probably have a very
>low psi drop air box already.
>
>Your Fellow RV Enthusiast,
>Ned
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>
>> Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and what
>> can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about 1"
>MP
>> increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a bigger
>> FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Scott Bilinski
>> Eng dept 305
>> Phone (858) 657-2536
>> Pager (858) 502-5190
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
do not archive
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap motor failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil@pressenter.com>
> I have just 30 hours on my RV6 and had a flap motor failure today, could
not extend flaps, landed & got to the flap motor, gave it a rap while
holding switch and flaps extended. I know others have had failures
according to archives but this should not be happening. Has Van's been
known to be exchanging or upgrading these kit motors of 3-4 years old? I
have cleaned the contacts, but how long will that last?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
I to have had this problem. On the advice of Van's I clean it and then
applied one (just ONE!!!) drop of Three-In-One oil to the top of the flap
motor shaft. No problems since (in the RV-4, the motor is mounted
vertically which makes this easy).
Doug Weiler
MN Wing
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
How can you get the battery out of the circuit? It must be there for no other reason
than to excite the field.
STATOR
Surrounding the rotor is another set of coils, three in number, called the stator.
The stator is fixed to the shell of the alternator, and does not turn. As
the rotor turns within the stator windings, the magnetic field of the rotor sweeps
through the stator windings, producing an electrical current in the windings.
Because of the rotation of the rotor, an alternating current is produced.
As, for example, the north pole of the magnetic field approaches one of the stator
windings, there is little coupling taking place, and a weak current is produced,
As the rotation continues, the magnetic field moves to the center of
the winding, where maximum coupling takes place, and the induced current is at
its peak. As the rotation continues to the point that the magnetic field is leaving
the stator winding, the induced current is small. By this time, the south
pole is approaching the winding, producing a weak current in the opposite direction.
As this continues, the current produced in each winding plotted against
the angle of rotation of the rotor has the form shown in figure 2. The three
stator windings are spaced inside the alternator 120 degrees apart, producing
three separate sets, or "phases," of output voltages, spaced 120 degrees apart,
as shown in figure 3.
OUTPUT DIODES
A/C voltage is of little use in a D/C system, such as used in an airplane, so it
has to be converted to D/C before it can be used. This conversion to D/C takes
place in the "output diodes" and in the "diode trio." Diodes have the property
of allowing current to flow in only one direction, while blocking current
flow in the other direction. The output diodes consist of six diodes, one pair
for each winding. One of the pair is for the negative half cycle, and the other
for the positive half cycle. As a result of this diode rectification, the output
of the alternator looks as shown in figure 4.
Surprisingly enough, the output of the alternator is not a pure D/C as one might
expect, but a pulsating D/C. Because there are three windings, each with a positive
and a negative half, by the time the voltage is passed through the diodes,
there are six pulsations for each rotation of the rotor. This is close enough
to D/C for most automotive components. Critical components, such as radios,
have their own internal filtering circuits to further smooth out the waveform
to a purer D/C.
This doesn't look like your quoted 99% to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Cy Galley wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> >I am fairly sure without the "ballast" of the battery, your regulator will
> >quickly give up the ghost.
> >
> This hasn't been my (limited) experience. It may be due to differences
> in regulators or due to the fact that there was some load available,
> although the battery wasn't part of it. I don't see any reason,
> technically, for the system to run away with a fully functioning
> regulator. Maybe someone else can help out here.
>
> >I know the battery filters out the ripple of the
> >current and many electrical noises within the system.
> >
> The diode array in the alternator does 99% of the ripple removing.
> Under full load, the remaining ripple may become noticeable in cheap
> intercoms etc. It is true that the battery will filter some of the crap
> that ends up on the power bus, but it's a poor filter .... otherwise we
> wouldn't be chasing strobe and flasher noise. In this case 'it all
> depends' may be useful as electrical systems are, by their nature,
> terribly dynamic.
>
> Linn
>
> >
> >Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> >Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> >cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
> >
> >Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Looks like the exhaust hanging hardware on my airplane needs to be changed every
100 hours or so. When I pulled the cowl for my condition inspection, I found
that one of the angles in the Vetterman exhaust hanging system had failed.
That was at about 220 hours. Previously (at about 100 hours in service) I experienced
a failure in the previous version of the exhaust hanging system.
Has anyone worked out an exhaust hanging system that is reliable over the long
term? Tom at Van's indicated that lots of folks have experienced failures in
this area over the years, despite numerous revisions in the hardware and attachement
of the hangars.
Thanks in advance,
KB
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 09:01 PM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>It works regardless of rotation so there is no need to remove. Might not be
>as efficient but at 6000 rpm it doesn't make any difference.
Honda spins the engine backwards from everyone else. Why use a
Honda alternator when every other brand in the world spins in the correct
direction?
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Scott, I bought "Speed with Economy", subtitle "Experimental Aircraft
Performance Improvement" by Kent Paser, 1994. Bought direct from him:
Paser Publications, 5672 West Chestnut Avenue, Littleton, Colorado 80123.
Cost me $28.45 in 1990.
Chapter 3, Engine Intake System Modifications. Pg 52, "the use of propellor
pressure pulses to augment the ram air flow into the cowl carburetor air
scoop. Pg 55 describes, qualitatively, the 5 design factors he
incorporated.
You are on the right track. 1" is great. Increased over what? I see MAP
2" below station pressure with an oiled foam air filter and only 1" below
station pressure with a paper filter. With special air intake ducts, some
guys are seeing 1 to 2" OVER station pressure - don't know if they use a
filter or not. Engine (valves) won't last long with no filter - grit gets
onto valve seats and then valves burn rapidly due to hot gas blow-by.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and what
> can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about 1"
MP
> increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a bigger
> FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
> appreciated.
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
> do not archive
>
>
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
I have camped at OSH every year for the past, what 16? years I suppose.
I have seen tents come and go, literally (Hey, isn't that Dave's tent
rolling by over there?). The best I have found for relatively little
money for what you get are the Cabela tents, specifically the Alaskan
Guide Model. I have the 4 man for me, myself and I and my wife when she
can come. Holds everything I cram in it. At OSH it can RAIN which will
get in your tent. My Cabela's is the driest I have used or seen. It also
can BLOW there, either nature or some twin trying to blast himself out
of his tire ruts. The Cabela tents can be secured at multiple points and
stay put.
Search the archives under CAMPING AT OSH and read message 99850 April 02
babble for some more hints about camping there. Some things will be
changed as there will now be Custom Camping west of the forum tents.
YEA.
You HAVE to fly to OSH, and it is GREAT to camp there, even if you are
not that accustom to the great out doors. Early morning, smell of coffee
and someone cooking bacon, sun not up yet but orange glow over the lake,
conversation you can't quite make out over behind you to your left, two
P-51s and an F4U taking off in sequence 200 yards from your tent roar
the quiet away and are gone, quiet again except for someone somewhere
saying "cool!". Friends you only see at OSH, stumble out of their tent
and crawl over to yours, set up a chair and, smiling blurry-eyed, hold
out their cup for a bit of hot joe. Can't wait.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: cecilth@juno.com
What is "(The ER Tanks slide into the first nose rib lightening hole
forward of the spar) "
Inquiring minds want to know.
Cecil
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:25:36 -0500 <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com> writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com>
>
> Hi all, don't know if this is general knowledge, but I thought this
> response was good enough to share with the list. I finally bit the
> bullet and ordered my Dynon and associated toys. Tony and Monte have
> been really great to deal with. Would like to throw out a big thanks
> to Dynon just for making a good pitot tube for a reasonable price.
> Every little victory adds up.
>
> Eric
> Thanks for your order, we look forward to receiving it and we'll get
> it processed as soon as it's received.
> The wing tip is the preferred location for the remote compass. This
> gets the remote compass as far away from the panel and ferrous
> materials (engine, engine mount, landing gear, etc.) as possible. If
> you have a strobe power supply in the wing tip, you'll want to
> install the compass as far away from the box as possible (within the
> wing tip). The EFIS-D10 "samples" the remote compass 64 times/second
> and averages these samples. Even with the comet flash strobes, there
> is only small amount of time, relative to the sampling rate, that
> any significant interference can be generated by the strobe power
> supply. The remote compass will sense the strobes as they discharge
> but the user probably won't notice any change on the EFIS-D10
> display (due to the averaging and large number of samples taken each
> second). Now that you understand how the EFIS-D10 gathers and
> processes compass signals, it explains why electric gyro's (being
> continuous sources of interference) are the most problematic!
> to correct.
> As a side note, if you ever think you may be installing our ER
> Tanks, mount the remote compass at least 1 foot behind the main
> spar. Then you won't have to move it should you install ER Tanks at
> a later date. (The ER Tanks slide into the first nose rib lightening
> hole forward of the spar)
> If there's anything else Monte or I can do for you, please don't
> hesitate to contact us.
> Tony Munday and Monte McDavid
> SafeAir1
> 817-821-4957 (TM)
> 817-939-2695 (MM)
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RV-List New EFIS instrument add & company in Kitplanes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "pcondon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Has anyone contacted the Canadian company who is advertising in the back of
Kitplanes magazine which advertises single unit, replacement electrical/LCD
display flight instruments ?? I am at work and the magazine is at
home........ Noticed the add in the new (latest) mailing of Kitplane
magazine, in the back section of the mag,- last night while I should have
been doing my taxes and houseold billing......
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Camping Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: cecilth@juno.com
From: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
"And be sure not to mix up the two.... :-)"
Owen . . . you didn't----
Oh My God
Cecil
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Honda alternator |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
If the Honda spins backwards from every other car engine then it would be
turning the same direction that aircrat engines turn and the alternator
would be even better?? Right??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
>
> At 09:01 PM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> >It works regardless of rotation so there is no need to remove. Might not
be
> >as efficient but at 6000 rpm it doesn't make any difference.
>
> Honda spins the engine backwards from everyone else. Why use a
> Honda alternator when every other brand in the world spins in the correct
> direction?
>
>
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Perfect the book is ordered.
At 12:13 PM 3/4/04 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
>Scott, I bought "Speed with Economy", subtitle "Experimental Aircraft
>Performance Improvement" by Kent Paser, 1994. Bought direct from him:
>Paser Publications, 5672 West Chestnut Avenue, Littleton, Colorado 80123.
>Cost me $28.45 in 1990.
>
>Chapter 3, Engine Intake System Modifications. Pg 52, "the use of propellor
>pressure pulses to augment the ram air flow into the cowl carburetor air
>scoop. Pg 55 describes, qualitatively, the 5 design factors he
>incorporated.
>
>You are on the right track. 1" is great. Increased over what? I see MAP
>2" below station pressure with an oiled foam air filter and only 1" below
>station pressure with a paper filter. With special air intake ducts, some
>guys are seeing 1 to 2" OVER station pressure - don't know if they use a
>filter or not. Engine (valves) won't last long with no filter - grit gets
>onto valve seats and then valves burn rapidly due to hot gas blow-by.
>
>David
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>
>> Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and what
>> can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about 1"
>MP
>> increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a bigger
>> FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Scott Bilinski
>> Eng dept 305
>> Phone (858) 657-2536
>> Pager (858) 502-5190
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
do not archive
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
They sell extended range tanks - fuel "cylinders" that slide into the
rib lightening holes.
Take a look at www.safeair1.com
Dick Tasker
cecilth@juno.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: cecilth@juno.com
>
>What is "(The ER Tanks slide into the first nose rib lightening hole
>forward of the spar) "
>Inquiring minds want to know.
>Cecil
>
>
>On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:25:36 -0500 <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com> writes:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com>
>>
>>Hi all, don't know if this is general knowledge, but I thought this
>>response was good enough to share with the list. I finally bit the
>>bullet and ordered my Dynon and associated toys. Tony and Monte have
>>been really great to deal with. Would like to throw out a big thanks
>>to Dynon just for making a good pitot tube for a reasonable price.
>>Every little victory adds up.
>>
>>Eric
>>Thanks for your order, we look forward to receiving it and we'll get
>>it processed as soon as it's received.
>>The wing tip is the preferred location for the remote compass. This
>>gets the remote compass as far away from the panel and ferrous
>>materials (engine, engine mount, landing gear, etc.) as possible. If
>>you have a strobe power supply in the wing tip, you'll want to
>>install the compass as far away from the box as possible (within the
>>wing tip). The EFIS-D10 "samples" the remote compass 64 times/second
>>and averages these samples. Even with the comet flash strobes, there
>>is only small amount of time, relative to the sampling rate, that
>>any significant interference can be generated by the strobe power
>>supply. The remote compass will sense the strobes as they discharge
>>but the user probably won't notice any change on the EFIS-D10
>>display (due to the averaging and large number of samples taken each
>>second). Now that you understand how the EFIS-D10 gathers and
>>processes compass signals, it explains why electric gyro's (being
>>continuous sources of interference) are the most problematic!
>> to correct.
>>As a side note, if you ever think you may be installing our ER
>>Tanks, mount the remote compass at least 1 foot behind the main
>>spar. Then you won't have to move it should you install ER Tanks at
>>a later date. (The ER Tanks slide into the first nose rib lightening
>>hole forward of the spar)
>>If there's anything else Monte or I can do for you, please don't
>>hesitate to contact us.
>>Tony Munday and Monte McDavid
>>SafeAir1
>>817-821-4957 (TM)
>>817-939-2695 (MM)
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
on 3/4/04 11:03 AM, Kyle Boatright at kyle.boatright@adelphia.net wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
>
> Looks like the exhaust hanging hardware on my airplane needs to be changed
> every 100 hours or so. When I pulled the cowl for my condition inspection, I
> found that one of the angles in the Vetterman exhaust hanging system had
> failed. That was at about 220 hours. Previously (at about 100 hours in
> service) I experienced a failure in the previous version of the exhaust
> hanging system.
>
> Has anyone worked out an exhaust hanging system that is reliable over the long
> term? Tom at Van's indicated that lots of folks have experienced failures in
> this area over the years, despite numerous revisions in the hardware and
> attachement of the hangars.
>
Kyle,
I started off with lots of failures and have finally gotten it to where I
have not had any for a few hundred hours. I can't remember everything I
have done because it has been a gradual upgrading, but here are some of the
things, half stolen from other listers and half my own ideas.
I replaced the original Vetterman tubing with heavier wall tubing. I
believe this stuff is auto brake line.
The smashed ends with the holes, that Vetterman uses to make attachements
are where mine almost always broke, no matter how careful I was making the
smashes smooth. Now I use clamps on the tubing captured with silver
soldered wire around the tubing on each side of the clamp.
Rather than one clamp on the engine mount at each attach point I use two
bridged with a piece of heavy aluminum.
I eliminated the cross brace, which was a failure point and have found the
exhaust hangs just fine straight down from its mounting point. It can't
break if it isn't there.
I have still found failures of one clamp occasionally but that hasn't caused
a problem. And finally I safety wire things so a failure doesnt' let the
exhaust go anywhere, although I have found it tends to stay pretty much in
place, even with a complete failure on one side.
I haven't tried any of Larry's updated mounting solutions. All of this is
on an RV-6 with O-360.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys |
--> RV-List message posted by: <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Cy meant to say ROTOR, not stator at the beginning of his message. The electormagnetic
field is created by electricity being fed into the rotor windings. This
creates the magnetic field.
Charlie Kuss
>
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@QCBC.ORG>
> Date: 2004/03/04 Thu PM 12:29:52 EST
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys
>
>
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
bill@vondane.com, banderson@polyvision.com, dan@rvproject.com,
rv7boy@yahoo.com, drwalker@powernet.net, jacki@jackim.com,
jhallrv4@comcast.net, n1cxo320@salidaco.com, RV-List@matronics.com,
mikesrv6@yahoo.com, rosales@bigfoot.com, n667sr@comcast.net
| Subject: | RSVP for Carson City Fly-in |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Hello Everyone, I am sending this e-mail out 8 weeks in advance to get an
idea of the crowd we may be dealing with. We have set aside a block of 40
rooms at the Pinion Plaza Resort so don't hesitate on that. I have been told
if the rooms do not reserve by a certain time they will release them for
other costumers. So far I have received raffle/door prizes from Aerox
Aviation Oxygen Systems, Avery Tools, and Aircraft Spruce. We are working on
a couple more and will post those donations as soon as I get word. Please
mark your calendars and plan for this event. I ask anyone that wishes to
participate in this event to RSVP in the next couple of weeks so we can get
an idea for food preparations and chapter members we need to recruit to make
this fly-in a success. Thanks to you all that are supporting and donating to
this fly-in. We will see you here. Bruce
One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Thanks to everyone who gave me good information on camping at OSH,
particularly the caution not to mix the pee and water bottles !!
John
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
My new AeroSport engine has arrived. I would like to find a new home for my
old engine with about 900hrs on it SMOH. It is a 180HP O-360A1D off of a
Mooney. The engine was removed from a flying airplane when the owner changed to
a
200HP IO-360 angle valve. The engine includes the starter and rebuilt Bendix
"shower of sparks" mags with the vibrator. I need the vacuum pump and the
prop governor. I bought the engine to test fly my RV-6 without having to worry
about breaking in a new engine. I have flown it about 85hrs without any
problems. The airplane is really fast, I hope I see a big difference in airspeed
after spending the money for the AeroSport. I will not be installing the new
engine right away so come hear it run and fly the airplane. I am asking $12,500
Cash Copeland
RV-6 N46FC
Hayward, Ca
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I had the same problem after about 80 hours... I made some new brackets and
now, 80 hours later, they are good as new...
http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/engine/engine3.htm - bottom of page...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
<kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
Looks like the exhaust hanging hardware on my airplane needs to be changed
every 100 hours or so. When I pulled the cowl for my condition inspection,
I found that one of the angles in the Vetterman exhaust hanging system had
failed. That was at about 220 hours. Previously (at about 100 hours in
service) I experienced a failure in the previous version of the exhaust
hanging system.
Has anyone worked out an exhaust hanging system that is reliable over the
long term? Tom at Van's indicated that lots of folks have experienced
failures in this area over the years, despite numerous revisions in the
hardware and attachement of the hangars.
Thanks in advance,
KB
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tulsa Engine Services |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
Good info. It seems there's no overhaul manual specific to IO-360s. It looks
like there's just one generic manual for direct drive engines non turbo
charged engines. Is that right?
What documentation, Lycoming or otherwise, did you accumulate?
thanks,
lucky
In a message dated 3/4/2004 9:24:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com>
>>>>Listers,
What was the name of the engine shop in Oklahoma mentioned recently on the
list? I couldn't find it in the archives.
Thanks,
Dan RV-7A (almost done)
>>>>>
Sounds like you are doing your own rebuild. I just did that so I thought I'd
give you a run down on what I found. Maybe it will benefit someone.
If you want your steel parts refurbed in Tulsa you are looking for Aircraft
Specialties Inc. They did all of my internal parts, resurfaced everything and
yellow tags for everything for $1800.00 . They sold me a rebuild kit that
contains all hardware you'll need for $800.00. There's your bottom end overhaul.
BTW, most of the cost is the connecting rod bolts. Ouch! My cases were done by
Divco. For $700.00 they line bore, check for cracks, resurface everything. They
are absolutely beautiful when you get them back. Next engine, I will do the
same thing, but I might be tempted to give ole Monte Barret a call and ask him
how much he wants to assemble and test the thing. Monte builds high perf
competition aerobatic engines. He's right next door to Aircraft Specialties. He
chased down some parts for me and was great to work with and was more than
reasonable. Basically you could disassemble your engine ship it off and get back
a
fresh engine. You would be skipping the markup the buil!
ders charge you to ship your parts out. When a builder ships a crank out,
from my experience, they charge you near double the cost of the machine shops
price. If you have a bendix fuel injection, Air Flow Performance made my entire
FI system brand spanking new for $650.00, they replace everything but the body.
For Mags I found a guy named Howard Libersky in Okechobee, Fl that rebuilt
each mag completely for $120.00 flat out. He's been doing mags since they were
cutting edge technology. His number is (863-467-6464). I put new ECI Titan
cylinders on since it was not much more than having my old work cylinders
reworked. All told, I figure I've got about $13,500.00 invested and I'm damn confident
in my engine (big thanks to Charlie Kuss).
Hope it helps
Eric Henson
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
In a message dated 3/4/04 3:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
n5lp@warpdriveonline.com writes:
> Rather than one clamp on the engine mount at each attach point I use two
> bridged with a piece of heavy aluminum.
>
>
Are you attaching the exaust pipes hangers from the engine mount rather than
from lower case bolts as indicated in the vettermans instructions?
Scott Morrow
RV-6A
90%
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
The exhaust hangers were one of the most problematic parts of my RV
for the first couple hundred hours. I don't know how many variations
I tried, but they'd always break.
I finally gave up trying to hang them off the motor mount and now
support them off the sump bolts. Been great for the last 500 hrs.
Laird RV-6/O-360 950 hrs
SoCal
>--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
>on 3/4/04 11:03 AM, Kyle Boatright at kyle.boatright@adelphia.net wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
>><kyle.boatright@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Looks like the exhaust hanging hardware on my airplane needs to be changed
>> every 100 hours or so. When I pulled the cowl for my condition
>>inspection, I
>> found that one of the angles in the Vetterman exhaust hanging system had
>> failed. That was at about 220 hours. Previously (at about 100 hours in
>> service) I experienced a failure in the previous version of the exhaust
>> hanging system.
>>
>> Has anyone worked out an exhaust hanging system that is reliable
>>over the long
>> term? Tom at Van's indicated that lots of folks have experienced
>>failures in
>> this area over the years, despite numerous revisions in the hardware and
> > attachement of the hangars.
>>
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/4/04 3:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> n5lp@warpdriveonline.com writes:
>
> > Rather than one clamp on the engine mount at each attach point I use two
> > bridged with a piece of heavy aluminum.
> >
> >
>
> Are you attaching the exaust pipes hangers from the engine mount rather
than
> from lower case bolts as indicated in the vettermans instructions?
>
I am attaching to the engine mount as indicated in the Vetterman
instructions that I got. Apparently there are different versions of his
system. I think I got my exhaust about 1998 or 1999.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
A few comments:
1. The ambient pressure is directly related to the pressure altitude,
but the pressure does not vary with temperature. So, there is no
direct relationship between density altitude and ambient pressure.
So forget all about density altitude for this discussion. Just
consider pressure altitude (i.e. what the altimeter reads when you
set it to 29.92).
2. There are a whole bunch of different pressures that we can talk
about, and it is hard to have a clear discussion unless we are sure
we are talking about the same pressures.
Ambient pressure (or static pressure) - the actual pressure in the
atmosphere at the altitude in question. There is a direct
relationship between ambient pressure and pressure altitude. You can
find the equations for the relationship between pressure altitude and
ambient pressure at:
http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm#Altimetry
Dynamic pressure - this is the pressure increase due to speed, in simple terms.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/Dynamic_Pressure/DI142.htm
Total pressure - this is the sum of ambient pressure and dynamic
pressure. It is the pressure that we get if we take the air and slow
it down to zero speed (looking at it from the perspective of the
aircraft). This is the pressure that we could get inside the
induction air scoop, if we actually could get the air to come to a
stop relative to the aircraft. In reality, the air has to keep
moving, as the engine needs to keep consuming it, so we can never get
the pressure quite this high.
Pressure before the air filter - this pressure will generally be
somewhat less than the total pressure, unless we manage to position
our intake to get some pressure increase due to the propeller.
Pressure after the air filter - air will not flow unless there is a
pressure differential, so the pressure after the filter has to be
lower than the pressure ahead of the filter. The pressure loss as
the air goes through the filter seems to be about 1" HG, at least
based on what some people have reported.
Manifold pressure - this is the pressure that we have at the intake
manifold, right next to the intake port. There are pressure losses
as the air flows through the carb (or fuel injection servo) and the
intake manifold plumbing.
So, the manifold pressure will be equal to the ambient pressure +
dynamic pressure - small error because the air never actually goes to
zero speed - pressure loss through the air filter - pressure loss
through the carb and intake manifold. So, depending on how fast we
going (which will largely determine the dynamic pressure), and what
the various pressure losses are, the manifold pressure may be more or
less than the ambient pressure.
So, you are seeing about a 1" pressure increase due to ram air.
Which pressure has increased by 1"? 1" relative to what? The
manifold pressure? What do you mean by ram air? Do you mean that
you have a way to bypass the air filter? Or do you mean that you are
looking at the pressure increase due to motion (i.e. the dynamic
pressure)?
There is no rocket science to increasing manifold pressure, but the
laws of physics will place limits on what you can do. Going faster
will increase the dynamic pressure, which will increase the total
pressure, which will mean more manifold pressure. Sort of a Catch 22
here - you want to go faster, so you want more manifold pressure.
But you'll get more manifold pressure if you can figure out how to go
faster.
Have an air inlet with the lowest amount of frictional losses. The
frictional losses are at the outside surface of the air inlet. So,
you want the shape that has the least amount of circumference for a
given area - i.e. a circle.
Turbulence causes pressure losses, so you want smooth contours, and
gentle changes in contour. No steps, or rapidly increasing areas.
You want the shortest possible inlet duct, as that minimizes the
frictional losses.
You might get some benefit from having the air inlet further away
from the prop hub, so you could get some pressure increase from the
prop. Lopresti claimed to have gotten some benefit from this effect,
but it could have been all smoke and mirrors.
You want a smooth surface to the intake ducting and the intake
manifold, to reduce the frictional losses.
You want an air filter with the lowest pressure drop.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Dont remember where I came up with 1"???? Somewhere somebody posted the
>calculated pressure available at 8k density alt for a standard day?. Well
>we have had a few standard days here in the last month, I checked and saw
>1" more than calculated at 185 MPH. Have no idea if this is right. I have
>paid real attention to detail on sealing up everything I can on the air
>box. It pained me to even add the drain hole for the FAB.
>
>Now after all this I just remember I was told that you cannot use the
>barometric pressure as a comparison/base line to MP. Any info on this? How
>and why are they different? If barometric pressure is 30.0 would max
>manifold pressure also be the same barring any losses in the system?
>
>
>At 10:34 AM 3/4/04 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
>>
>>Hi Scott,
>>
>>I am still learning about these things but maybe I can help. I'm curious
>>how you deduced the 1" MP increase due to ram air? It is interesting because
>>at 170 mph you can expect about 1" of mercury pressure available at the air
>>box. This can be calculated based on the formula for the dynamic pressure of
>>a fluid where
>>
>>P = (V**2 d)/288 g
>>
>>where:
>>
>> P = lbs per sq. inch (psi)
>>V = Velocity in feet per second (1mph = 1446 fps)
>>d = density of air in pounds pwe cu. ft., standard sea level air density
>>0.0762 pounds per cubic foot.
>>g = acceleration of gravity in feet per second (32.2 feet per second)
>>
>>Based on this formulation at:
>>
>>170 mph =~1"hg
>>300 mph =~3"hg
>>
>>To increase your Ram air pressure you can eliminate pressure drops, across
>>air filters, induction systems, etc. For example a poorly designed air box
>>may have a large pressure drop. Porting of the intake manifold and intake
>>chambers on the head can help reduce pressure drop. Keep in mind that you
>>are working with rather small increases in performance here for increasingly
>>higher dollar costs. If you have the Van's FAB then you probably have a very
>>low psi drop air box already.
>>
>>Your Fellow RV Enthusiast,
>>Ned
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>
>>> Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and what
>>> can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about 1"
>>MP
>>> increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a bigger
>>> FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
> >> Scott Bilinski
> >>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>Scott Bilinski
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Honda civic engines are one of the very few that spin like a aircraft
engine, so their fans should work. I'm not sure my cowl would not hit the
external fan though if one were installed.
RE reverse spinning the alt is no problem as long as you are below roughly
50% rated duty. The main problem with auto alternators is they are not rated
for continous duty as aircraft ones are. Then you reduce cooling by reverse
spinning the fan and removing the external one (if it had one) and ba da
bing melted parts.
I have tested them on the bench at load both ways and they will smoke
quicker when going backwards, but they will smoke either way if held at
rated power for too long.
That's why I built the big one out of a toyota solara.
http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/alternator/index.h
tm
W
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
>>Engine (valves) won't last long with no filter - grit gets
>>onto valve seats and then valves burn rapidly due to hot gas blow-by.
>>
>>David
>>
I've had rings get wiped out, but never valves operating
crop dusters on dirt roads with leaking air boxes.
For the record, there a model of Mooney that allows one to
bypass the filter for improved ram air performance.
Also for the record, I have an early Vans intake air setup in my RV-3.
No filtering unless the carb heat is actuated. Over 700 hours on the
engine with compression in the mid 70's and oil consumption is less
than a quart in 20 hours. I do pull carb heat while taxiing on the
ground to keep the engine clean of damaging abrasive particles.
Would a full time air filter be better for longevity?
Most likely at the expense of ramn air performance.
At any rate, seems Van was not too concerned
when he engineered my early version RV-3 air intake.
Bob
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Listers,
Has anyone actually studied the airflow conditions surrounding the
alternators positioned as they are in the cowlings of Vans RV line?
I have seen little indication that the direction of airflow in the
alternator's confined area of the average RV cowling is clearly understood.
Keep in mind that there is no direct air flow to or from the line of flight
outside airflow.
Airflow in this comparatively cramped corner of the forward lower cowling
might well be considerably dynamically turbulent with very little actual
definable flow direction or rate of flow.
All air movement in the area of the alternator is pre-heated by engine
cooling and further by exhaust system radiant and convective sources.
Cooling therefore is an issue.
The direction of rotation of the stock cooling fan/s is likely to be a
somewhat moot point.
Having the fan/s turn in the fan designer's intended direction where
possible would be the preferred choice.
Adding an additional fan on the units that have only one, might be possible?
but may not be worth the effort.
Blast air is suggested `if not a must' and is not uncommonly applied by
aiming a blast air tube in the general direction of the alternator.
Having the blast air tube fitted to some form of duct that improves the
cooling effect might be desirable on any alternator. The same treatment
focused on the electronics housing for internally regulated regulator types
can only help in the overall.
Of course having additional blast air tubes could help but a line has to be
drawn somewhere.
These alternators survive well in deplorable conditions in the automobiles
that they were designed for. It could be said that though the conditions
under the engine of an RV are different, they are also deplorable at least
from any imaginary ideal condition point of view.
If anyone cares to add to my understanding or shed light on my lack thereof
please do so.
I live to learn,
Jim in Kelowna
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
Good information and I like that you have actually tested the alternators. I
always wondered how my "Certified" aircraft was able to get the Ford
alternator certified while running it backwards. They didn't even bother to
change the fan. The fan runs backwards... Go figure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: alternators
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Honda civic engines are one of the very few that spin like a aircraft
> engine, so their fans should work. I'm not sure my cowl would not hit the
> external fan though if one were installed.
>
> RE reverse spinning the alt is no problem as long as you are below roughly
> 50% rated duty. The main problem with auto alternators is they are not
rated
> for continous duty as aircraft ones are. Then you reduce cooling by
reverse
> spinning the fan and removing the external one (if it had one) and ba da
> bing melted parts.
>
> I have tested them on the bench at load both ways and they will smoke
> quicker when going backwards, but they will smoke either way if held at
> rated power for too long.
>
> That's why I built the big one out of a toyota solara.
>
>
http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/alternator/index.h
> tm
>
> W
>
>
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Larry,
Since then Larry is recommending attaching the exhaust to the engine sump
bolts. I broke mine multiple times until I hung them from the two rear
corner sump bolts. Now the exhaust moves with the engine, nearly 200 hrs
trouble free since then. It'll only take you an hour or two to make the
change, and no more exhaust hanger problems!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Pardue
Subject: Re: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/4/04 3:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> n5lp@warpdriveonline.com writes:
>
> > Rather than one clamp on the engine mount at each attach point I use two
> > bridged with a piece of heavy aluminum.
> >
> >
>
> Are you attaching the exaust pipes hangers from the engine mount rather
than
> from lower case bolts as indicated in the vettermans instructions?
>
I am attaching to the engine mount as indicated in the Vetterman
instructions that I got. Apparently there are different versions of his
system. I think I got my exhaust about 1998 or 1999.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
W,
Thanks for the great web site and sharing your alternator knowledge.
I was a technician for Delco Radio (now Delphi Delco Electronics) back in the
mid to late 60's working on GM's electronic voltage
regulator-in-the-alternator program which first came out on the '68 Pontiac in
limited production.
Within about 3 years it was across the board on all GM cars. At the time even
silicon transistors were not too common. When I first heard what the
temperatures were in the alternator, and what accuracy of regulation we were expected
to
achieve, I wondered if I was working for a bunch of idiots! Anyway, I had
the pleasure of getting to know some of the brightest minds in the business. My
'63 Ford was one of the first, if not the first, to have a regulator inside
the alternator. I took off the generator and made brackets and installed one
of the Delco Remy alternators which was consigned to me by the company.
My first impression of Van's 35 amp installation with no fan was that it
won't last long. Guess what, it didn't. My friend and instructor finished his
RV-9A and the first thing that failed was the charging system. I opened up the
alternator and found solder balls and soot. Has anyone had any LUCK with
these things with no fan? A blast tube alone will not get the air where its
needed, although a blast tube may bring in some cool air for the alternator fan
to
pick up, if it has one.
The problem is that if you have to crank the engine long, or otherwise run
the battery down, the alternator will overheat before you get it to the end of
the runway to take off. You could baby it by leaving the field breaker turned
off, but who wants to have to remember to do that? Not a good situation.
Right now I have Van's 60 amp kit installed on my yet to fly RV-7A, but I
really like your approach. At the first sign of a problem, I'm going that route.
Thanks again,
Dan N766DH (almost done in Indiana)
In a message dated 3/4/04 5:34:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us writes:
>
> That's why I built the big one out of a toyota solara.
>
> http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/alternator/index.h
> tm
>
> W
>
>
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Listers,
Rather than flatten the tubes or silver solder to them, I just put a little
flare on them with my flaring tool -- just enough to increase the diameter
about like putting a bead on the tube. A bead would be ideal. After flaring the
tubing, smooth it up on a Scotchbrite wheel so it doesn't cut the rubber
tubing.
Dan RV-7A (almost done)
In a message dated 3/4/04 6:46:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
> Since then Larry is recommending attaching the exhaust to the engine sump
> bolts. I broke mine multiple times until I hung them from the two rear
> corner sump bolts. Now the exhaust moves with the engine, nearly 200 hrs
> trouble free since then. It'll only take you an hour or two to make the
> change, and no more exhaust hanger problems!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6's, Minneapolis
> http://www.steinair.com
>
>
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Honda alternator |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 01:05 PM 3/4/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
>
>If the Honda spins backwards from every other car engine then it would be
>turning the same direction that aircrat engines turn and the alternator
>would be even better?? Right??
Then why are folks complaining that the fan is backwards?
Message 54
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | finishing up sequence of events? |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
Engine and finishing kit on the way. So what's the preferred order of events
between now and riveting on the forward top fuse skin? I can see some things
are on an equal level.
Here's what I'm thinking. No vacuum system for me. I want to put a
Lightspeed on one set of plugs but will wait until after 25 hour fly off.
Mount the engine,
install engine accessories,
fit cowl,
exhaust,
baffles,
oil cooler,
fuel and oil hoses/lines,
throttle, mixture, governor cables from cockpit,
engine monitoring cables and sensors,
finish panel,
???,
cut canopy,
rivet on top skin,
finish front baggage door,
install windscreen,
???
What have I got out of order or am missing?
thanks,
lucky
Message 55
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | finishing up sequence of events? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
You probably ought to install the Lightspeed up front. It's a good size box
that needs to be mounted on the cabin side of the firewall with penetrations
for 2 coil leads, manifold pressure and timing pick-up and direct-to-battery
power. The Hall effect sensor uses a 9-pin D-sub that needs a large opening
to pass through even if you remove its shell. You really don't want to do
all that after the skin is on. Engine side would certainly be easier but
cabin side was recommended several years ago unless Klaus has changed it
recently.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
> Engine and finishing kit on the way. So what's the preferred
> order of events
> between now and riveting on the forward top fuse skin? I can
> see some things
> are on an equal level.
>
> Here's what I'm thinking. No vacuum system for me. I want to put a
> Lightspeed on one set of plugs but will wait until after 25
> hour fly off.
>
> Mount the engine,
> install engine accessories,
> fit cowl,
> exhaust,
> baffles,
> oil cooler,
> fuel and oil hoses/lines,
> throttle, mixture, governor cables from cockpit,
> engine monitoring cables and sensors,
> finish panel,
> ???,
> cut canopy,
> rivet on top skin,
> finish front baggage door,
> install windscreen,
> ???
>
> What have I got out of order or am missing?
>
> thanks,
> lucky
>
Message 56
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
I got VANS cushions and I like them.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Walker
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Seat Cushion Kit for Sale
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
This is probably the 3rd or 4th time i've seen someone selling their
Van's
seat cushions in the past few months. Is there something about them that
is
disliked ? What are you guys going with instead ? I'm curious because
I'm at
the point of needing some cushions and perhaps you guys have some
insight to
share ?
Ron
==
==
==
==
Message 57
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> My first impression of Van's 35 amp installation with no fan was that it
> won't last long. Guess what, it didn't. My friend and instructor
finished his
> RV-9A and the first thing that failed was the charging system. I opened
up
> the alternator and found solder balls and soot. Has anyone had any LUCK
> with these things with no fan? A blast tube alone will not get the air
where its
> needed, although a blast tube may bring in some cool air for the
alternator fan > to pick up, if it has one.
>
> The problem is that if you have to crank the engine long, or otherwise run
> the battery down, the alternator will overheat before you get it to the
end of
> the runway to take off. You could baby it by leaving the field breaker
turned
> off, but who wants to have to remember to do that? Not a good situation.
>
OK, I guess it's time I add a little to this conversation. I've got a 35
amp Van's alternator in Scooter. Actually, it's the second one. I replaced
the first one when I thought I had a problem with the alternator. Not so.
It was the regulator that was a little jumpy. I'm still using that
regulator and have a good used alternator as a back up. The new one is just
fine, as well. I don't have any idea why you guys are having problems with
your alternators. Maybe you could be overloading them. Maybe not. I just
know that I've been quite happy with mine. Yes, I've evem run the battery
down very low on cold mornings trying to start mine and have had the
alternator work double duty to recharge that battery, run the fuel pump, run
the avionics, and run the strobe. No problems with that, either. I thought
about putting the blast tubes on; but, I still haven't done that because my
alternator is not burning up. I never had one on the Cheetah; so, I figured
it would be just fine without blast tubes for Scooter. Now, why mine works
so much better than those you've used is a mystery to me; but, I plan to
continue doing what I'm doing. I just may get mine at auto parts stores, in
the future.
BTW, I still haven't had a flap motor failure, yet. It could happen on my
next flight; but, I've been flying Scooter for over four years and am still
using the original one. Someone must be watching over me. Nah. My engine
has made up for the other. :-) I seem to have that resolved, now.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
EAA Tech Counselor
do not archive
Message 58
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Jim Sears wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
>
>
>>My first impression of Van's 35 amp installation with no fan was that it
>>won't last long. Guess what, it didn't. My friend and instructor
>>
>>
>finished his
>
>
>>RV-9A and the first thing that failed was the charging system. I opened
>>
>>
>up
>
>
>>the alternator and found solder balls and soot. Has anyone had any LUCK
>>with these things with no fan? A blast tube alone will not get the air
>>
>>
>where its
>
>
>>needed, although a blast tube may bring in some cool air for the
>>
>>
>alternator fan > to pick up, if it has one.
>
>
>>The problem is that if you have to crank the engine long, or otherwise run
>>the battery down, the alternator will overheat before you get it to the
>>
>>
>end of
>
>
>>the runway to take off. You could baby it by leaving the field breaker
>>
>>
>turned
>
>
>>off, but who wants to have to remember to do that? Not a good situation.
>>
>>
>>
>
>OK, I guess it's time I add a little to this conversation. I've got a 35
>amp Van's alternator in Scooter. Actually, it's the second one. I replaced
>the first one when I thought I had a problem with the alternator. Not so.
>It was the regulator that was a little jumpy. I'm still using that
>regulator and have a good used alternator as a back up. The new one is just
>fine, as well. I don't have any idea why you guys are having problems with
>your alternators. Maybe you could be overloading them. Maybe not. I just
>know that I've been quite happy with mine. Yes, I've evem run the battery
>down very low on cold mornings trying to start mine and have had the
>alternator work double duty to recharge that battery, run the fuel pump, run
>the avionics, and run the strobe. No problems with that, either. I thought
>about putting the blast tubes on; but, I still haven't done that because my
>alternator is not burning up. I never had one on the Cheetah; so, I figured
>it would be just fine without blast tubes for Scooter. Now, why mine works
>so much better than those you've used is a mystery to me; but, I plan to
>continue doing what I'm doing. I just may get mine at auto parts stores, in
>the future.
>
>BTW, I still haven't had a flap motor failure, yet. It could happen on my
>next flight; but, I've been flying Scooter for over four years and am still
>using the original one. Someone must be watching over me. Nah. My engine
>has made up for the other. :-) I seem to have that resolved, now.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
>EAA Tech Counselor
>do not archive
>
>
>
Guess we are just special Jim, :-) July well be 15 years alternator
trouble free.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 59
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | finishing up sequence of events? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
Hello,
I am there now....It is sort of a chicken and the egg stage isn't it! Well, here's
what I am doing:
Check with Van's Web Site as they have some additional notes/instructions about
mounting the wings, the cowl and I believe
the canopy. Main thing is they say to leave off all the engine doodads as they
get in the way when mounting the cowl.
I haven't mounted the top deck as I am concentrating on firewall penetrations in
the vain hope of minimizing the crawling
around inside when the top deck is on.
I have the engine mounted. Some say to wait till you have mounted the firewall
stuff, but I need the engine on to get an
idea of where everything goes.
I have been held up as I really need to have an idea of the panel before I proceed.
I have decided on NO
fuel/pressure/copper/etc. lines in the cockpit. NO Vacuum instruments. I elaborate
as you need to know this before you
start punching holes in the firewall. Everything on the firewall will be nutplated
so you can imagine trying to do it with
the top deck on. Are you using Lightspeed Electronic Ignition? Then you need to
have a Manifold Pressure line to it and the
coax cables need to seperated from the return sensor wires. This kind of circular
detail can drive one crazy!
Another reason I mention the panel is that the side sections (RV-8) of it are best
dealt with before permanent installation
of the top deck. My ignition switch will go on the right and potentially the carb/cabin
heat will go on the left. Also if
you can nail down the electrical wire routing (again firewall penetrations) you
will be ahead of the game. With apologies
to the traditionalists, I am going with Aeroelectric Bob's recommendations.
There are other things you can be doing in parallel such as the upholstery, seats,
cabin wiring, but you already know that.
So wrapping it all up:
Focus on the firewall and instrument side penetrations (and fuel lines, but you
probably have already done that).
Mount the top deck
Then pick up with the plans at the Canopy.
Of course, that is the game plan for today. Tomorrow could be another story.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 - SB Finish
"Aerosport and Lightspeed, but still procrastinating on the canopy"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV8ter@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: finishing up sequence of events?
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
Engine and finishing kit on the way. So what's the preferred order of events
between now and riveting on the forward top fuse skin? I can see some things
are on an equal level.
Here's what I'm thinking. No vacuum system for me. I want to put a
Lightspeed on one set of plugs but will wait until after 25 hour fly off.
Mount the engine,
install engine accessories,
fit cowl,
exhaust,
baffles,
oil cooler,
fuel and oil hoses/lines,
throttle, mixture, governor cables from cockpit,
engine monitoring cables and sensors,
finish panel,
???,
cut canopy,
rivet on top skin,
finish front baggage door,
install windscreen,
???
What have I got out of order or am missing?
thanks,
lucky
Message 60
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Langley Fly-in 2004 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
The Langley Aero Club and Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing are holding the
third annual Langley Fly-in on Saturday, June 12, 2004 at Langley airport
(CYNJ), Langley, BC (~20 nm north of Bellingham, WA).
Keep an eye on the Fly-in web page for details,
http://www.vansairforce.org/CYNJ
For U.S. visitors, there's a link on the web page to Randall Henderson's
excellent border-crossing information page -- everything the first-time
border-crosser needs to know.
There will be awards for homebuilts, seminars on RV-related topics, and a
representative from Van's Aircraft.
Naturally, we're encouraging anyone who wants to fly in, regardless of what
type of airplane you have. If you plan to attend, and especially if you plan
to fly in, please take the time to sign the Guest Book on the Fly-in web page.
http://www.vansairforce.org/CYNJ/guestbook/lac_sign.html
That will help us plan facilities such as food and washrooms.
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force
Western Canada Wing
tedd@vansairforce.org
www.vansairforce.org
Message 61
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
With using a blast air tube for cooling the alternator, is there any concern
about flying into rain and having rain water coming through the tube onto
the back of the alternator?
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose
Firewall Forward
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator cooling
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> Listers,
>
> Has anyone actually studied the airflow conditions surrounding the
> alternators positioned as they are in the cowlings of Vans RV line?
>
> I have seen little indication that the direction of airflow in the
> alternator's confined area of the average RV cowling is clearly
understood.
> Keep in mind that there is no direct air flow to or from the line of
flight
> outside airflow.
> Airflow in this comparatively cramped corner of the forward lower cowling
> might well be considerably dynamically turbulent with very little actual
> definable flow direction or rate of flow.
>
> All air movement in the area of the alternator is pre-heated by engine
> cooling and further by exhaust system radiant and convective sources.
> Cooling therefore is an issue.
> The direction of rotation of the stock cooling fan/s is likely to be a
> somewhat moot point.
> Having the fan/s turn in the fan designer's intended direction where
> possible would be the preferred choice.
> Adding an additional fan on the units that have only one, might be
possible?
> but may not be worth the effort.
> Blast air is suggested `if not a must' and is not uncommonly applied by
> aiming a blast air tube in the general direction of the alternator.
> Having the blast air tube fitted to some form of duct that improves the
> cooling effect might be desirable on any alternator. The same treatment
> focused on the electronics housing for internally regulated regulator
types
> can only help in the overall.
> Of course having additional blast air tubes could help but a line has to
be
> drawn somewhere.
>
> These alternators survive well in deplorable conditions in the automobiles
> that they were designed for. It could be said that though the conditions
> under the engine of an RV are different, they are also deplorable at least
> from any imaginary ideal condition point of view.
>
>
> If anyone cares to add to my understanding or shed light on my lack
thereof
> please do so.
>
> I live to learn,
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
>
Message 62
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
One person's experiences with an alternator is not a definitive study. What
ever experience that person has is 100% for him and him alone. It may or may
not be a generalized condition. It may be that one case in 1000s that
sometimes happens. If it is a failure then every thing is o.k. but if it is
the one case of success, then we have big problems. Reiterating one's
opinion doesn't change the overall failure rate. Remember most of us are
Amateur Builders. Of course, we have strong opinions, but they aren't
necessarily the silent majorities nor statistically significant. They can be
used for guidance.
If you think that your $20 re-built alternator is going to let you down
because of low price mean poor quality, you ought to buy a $1000 one like on
Beech Bonanzas. Many on Bonanza list constantly complain about their
alternator failures as well.
One of the most important items for alternator life is a good v-belt,
properly tensioned and aligned. Too tight and you will have bearing
problems, too loose and the belt will slip, create flat spots on the belt
and then vibrate it to death. Mis-alignment is also hard on the bearings.
Washing down an engine with solvent is hard on them. Washes out the bearing
lube, contaminates the brushes. Many car alternators live in a very hot
position with poor cooling for 100,000 miles or more without ever being
washed. The large Lycoming drive pulley runs the continual rpm up much
higher (7-9000 rpm) than most car applications. Electric Bob discounts this
as he says that this is not a factor but if your rotor is not well balanced,
it will create problems.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: alternators
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> Jim Sears wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>My first impression of Van's 35 amp installation with no fan was that it
> >>won't last long. Guess what, it didn't. My friend and instructor
> >>
> >>
> >finished his
> >
> >
> >>RV-9A and the first thing that failed was the charging system. I opened
> >>
> >>
> >up
> >
> >
> >>the alternator and found solder balls and soot. Has anyone had any LUCK
> >>with these things with no fan? A blast tube alone will not get the air
> >>
> >>
> >where its
> >
> >
> >>needed, although a blast tube may bring in some cool air for the
> >>
> >>
> >alternator fan > to pick up, if it has one.
> >
> >
> >>The problem is that if you have to crank the engine long, or otherwise
run
> >>the battery down, the alternator will overheat before you get it to the
> >>
> >>
> >end of
> >
> >
> >>the runway to take off. You could baby it by leaving the field breaker
> >>
> >>
> >turned
> >
> >
> >>off, but who wants to have to remember to do that? Not a good
situation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >OK, I guess it's time I add a little to this conversation. I've got a 35
> >amp Van's alternator in Scooter. Actually, it's the second one. I
replaced
> >the first one when I thought I had a problem with the alternator. Not
so.
> >It was the regulator that was a little jumpy. I'm still using that
> >regulator and have a good used alternator as a back up. The new one is
just
> >fine, as well. I don't have any idea why you guys are having problems
with
> >your alternators. Maybe you could be overloading them. Maybe not. I
just
> >know that I've been quite happy with mine. Yes, I've evem run the
battery
> >down very low on cold mornings trying to start mine and have had the
> >alternator work double duty to recharge that battery, run the fuel pump,
run
> >the avionics, and run the strobe. No problems with that, either. I
thought
> >about putting the blast tubes on; but, I still haven't done that because
my
> >alternator is not burning up. I never had one on the Cheetah; so, I
figured
> >it would be just fine without blast tubes for Scooter. Now, why mine
works
> >so much better than those you've used is a mystery to me; but, I plan to
> >continue doing what I'm doing. I just may get mine at auto parts stores,
in
> >the future.
> >
> >BTW, I still haven't had a flap motor failure, yet. It could happen on
my
> >next flight; but, I've been flying Scooter for over four years and am
still
> >using the original one. Someone must be watching over me. Nah. My
engine
> >has made up for the other. :-) I seem to have that resolved, now.
> >
> >Jim Sears in KY
> >RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
> >EAA Tech Counselor
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> Guess we are just special Jim, :-) July well be 15 years alternator
> trouble free.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
>
Message 63
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
(exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
since the avblend and I still have the problem.
Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
Jason Sneed
Commercial Lending Officer
First National Bank and Trust
http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
Message 64
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | MP/Ram Air Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft <aflyer@direcway.com>
Well, thanks guys, a useful discussion.
I have spent the last couple of months developing a ram/alternate/filtered
air system. When I am finished I will offer parts for sale...see me at sun n
fun.
I have been testing the ram pressure rise by noting the manifold pressure
before I start the engine, then again at the same altitude 5 miles south of
the airport at cruise speed. I live in the mountains so that is easy, though
it happens at 7650 msl.
More to follow.
John Huft
RV8 flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
A few comments:
1. The ambient pressure is directly related to the pressure altitude,
but the pressure does not vary with temperature. So, there is no
direct relationship between density altitude and ambient pressure.
So forget all about density altitude for this discussion. Just
consider pressure altitude (i.e. what the altimeter reads when you
set it to 29.92).
2. There are a whole bunch of different pressures that we can talk
about, and it is hard to have a clear discussion unless we are sure
we are talking about the same pressures.
Ambient pressure (or static pressure) - the actual pressure in the
atmosphere at the altitude in question. There is a direct
relationship between ambient pressure and pressure altitude. You can
find the equations for the relationship between pressure altitude and
ambient pressure at:
http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm#Altimetry
Dynamic pressure - this is the pressure increase due to speed, in simple
terms.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/Dynamic_Pressure/DI142.ht
m
Total pressure - this is the sum of ambient pressure and dynamic
pressure. It is the pressure that we get if we take the air and slow
it down to zero speed (looking at it from the perspective of the
aircraft). This is the pressure that we could get inside the
induction air scoop, if we actually could get the air to come to a
stop relative to the aircraft. In reality, the air has to keep
moving, as the engine needs to keep consuming it, so we can never get
the pressure quite this high.
Pressure before the air filter - this pressure will generally be
somewhat less than the total pressure, unless we manage to position
our intake to get some pressure increase due to the propeller.
Pressure after the air filter - air will not flow unless there is a
pressure differential, so the pressure after the filter has to be
lower than the pressure ahead of the filter. The pressure loss as
the air goes through the filter seems to be about 1" HG, at least
based on what some people have reported.
Manifold pressure - this is the pressure that we have at the intake
manifold, right next to the intake port. There are pressure losses
as the air flows through the carb (or fuel injection servo) and the
intake manifold plumbing.
So, the manifold pressure will be equal to the ambient pressure +
dynamic pressure - small error because the air never actually goes to
zero speed - pressure loss through the air filter - pressure loss
through the carb and intake manifold. So, depending on how fast we
going (which will largely determine the dynamic pressure), and what
the various pressure losses are, the manifold pressure may be more or
less than the ambient pressure.
So, you are seeing about a 1" pressure increase due to ram air.
Which pressure has increased by 1"? 1" relative to what? The
manifold pressure? What do you mean by ram air? Do you mean that
you have a way to bypass the air filter? Or do you mean that you are
looking at the pressure increase due to motion (i.e. the dynamic
pressure)?
There is no rocket science to increasing manifold pressure, but the
laws of physics will place limits on what you can do. Going faster
will increase the dynamic pressure, which will increase the total
pressure, which will mean more manifold pressure. Sort of a Catch 22
here - you want to go faster, so you want more manifold pressure.
But you'll get more manifold pressure if you can figure out how to go
faster.
Have an air inlet with the lowest amount of frictional losses. The
frictional losses are at the outside surface of the air inlet. So,
you want the shape that has the least amount of circumference for a
given area - i.e. a circle.
Turbulence causes pressure losses, so you want smooth contours, and
gentle changes in contour. No steps, or rapidly increasing areas.
You want the shortest possible inlet duct, as that minimizes the
frictional losses.
You might get some benefit from having the air inlet further away
from the prop hub, so you could get some pressure increase from the
prop. Lopresti claimed to have gotten some benefit from this effect,
but it could have been all smoke and mirrors.
You want a smooth surface to the intake ducting and the intake
manifold, to reduce the frictional losses.
You want an air filter with the lowest pressure drop.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Dont remember where I came up with 1"???? Somewhere somebody posted the
>calculated pressure available at 8k density alt for a standard day?. Well
>we have had a few standard days here in the last month, I checked and saw
>1" more than calculated at 185 MPH. Have no idea if this is right. I have
>paid real attention to detail on sealing up everything I can on the air
>box. It pained me to even add the drain hole for the FAB.
>
>Now after all this I just remember I was told that you cannot use the
>barometric pressure as a comparison/base line to MP. Any info on this? How
>and why are they different? If barometric pressure is 30.0 would max
>manifold pressure also be the same barring any losses in the system?
>
>
>At 10:34 AM 3/4/04 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
>>
>>Hi Scott,
>>
>>I am still learning about these things but maybe I can help. I'm curious
>>how you deduced the 1" MP increase due to ram air? It is interesting
because
>>at 170 mph you can expect about 1" of mercury pressure available at the
air
>>box. This can be calculated based on the formula for the dynamic pressure
of
>>a fluid where
>>
>>P = (V**2 d)/288 g
>>
>>where:
>>
>> P = lbs per sq. inch (psi)
>>V = Velocity in feet per second (1mph = 1446 fps)
>>d = density of air in pounds pwe cu. ft., standard sea level air density
>>0.0762 pounds per cubic foot.
>>g = acceleration of gravity in feet per second (32.2 feet per second)
>>
>>Based on this formulation at:
>>
>>170 mph =~1"hg
>>300 mph =~3"hg
>>
>>To increase your Ram air pressure you can eliminate pressure drops, across
>>air filters, induction systems, etc. For example a poorly designed air box
>>may have a large pressure drop. Porting of the intake manifold and intake
>>chambers on the head can help reduce pressure drop. Keep in mind that you
>>are working with rather small increases in performance here for
increasingly
>>higher dollar costs. If you have the Van's FAB then you probably have a
very
>>low psi drop air box already.
>>
>>Your Fellow RV Enthusiast,
>>Ned
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV-List: MP/Ram Air Question
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>
>>> Is there anyone out there who understands MP, ram air induction, and
what
>>> can be done to increase ram air pressure? I appear to be seeing about
1"
>>MP
>>> increase due to ram air. Can I get more? Is there a limit? Would a
bigger
>>> FAB help? Larger snorkel intake? Smaller snorkel intake? Any advice
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
> >> Scott Bilinski
> >>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>Scott Bilinski
Message 65
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Lower your idle.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Sneed" <n242ds@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
> since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>
> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>
>
> Jason Sneed
> Commercial Lending Officer
> First National Bank and Trust
> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>
>
Message 66
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Jason,
I have heard that this is the biggest reason for installing the purge valve
with an Airflow Performance fuel injection system. For some reason the
mixture apparently doesn't always shut the fuel off enough to stop the
engine. Pulling the purge valve diverts the fuel from the injectors to the
return line and the engine quits.
Note that this is not from my own experience. I am still at the wiring
stage, but my Superior XP-IO-360-B1B came from Bart with the purge valve
already installed. A call to Airflow Performance ought to get you an
authoritative answer.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 wiring
--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
the master.
Message 67
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Larry,
Rain water should not be an issue.
For me the fret level is very low in regard to the amount of water that
might find it's way to the alternator via the blast tube. I am quite sure
that the cars boats etc.that these units live in subject them to more
moisture road filth and various other chemical pollution (anti freeze etc.)
than your aircraft will see before TBO comes around.
Firewall Forward huh, have baffling fun ! [:-)
Jim in Kelowna
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator cooling
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
> With using a blast air tube for cooling the alternator, is there any
concern
> about flying into rain and having rain water coming through the tube onto
> the back of the alternator?
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose
> Firewall Forward
Message 68
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
Jim... Tried that.... It is worse when I shutdown at 600 rpm.
On Mar 4, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Jim Cimino wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
>
> Lower your idle.
> Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Sneed" <n242ds@cox.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>>
>> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
>> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
>> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
>> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
>> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel
>> gets
>> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
>> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
>> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
>> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
>> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
>> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
>> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
>> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
>> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
>> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
>> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
>> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
>> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
>> since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>>
>> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>>
>>
>> Jason Sneed
>> Commercial Lending Officer
>> First National Bank and Trust
>> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Jason Sneed
Commercial Lending Officer
First National Bank and Trust
Message 69
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
I'll give them a call tomorrow.... The weird thing is that the engine
went 275 hours without having this problem.
Thanks,
Jason
On Mar 4, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Terry Watson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> Jason,
>
> I have heard that this is the biggest reason for installing the purge
> valve
> with an Airflow Performance fuel injection system. For some reason the
> mixture apparently doesn't always shut the fuel off enough to stop the
> engine. Pulling the purge valve diverts the fuel from the injectors
> to the
> return line and the engine quits.
>
> Note that this is not from my own experience. I am still at the wiring
> stage, but my Superior XP-IO-360-B1B came from Bart with the purge
> valve
> already installed. A call to Airflow Performance ought to get you an
> authoritative answer.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A #80729 wiring
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
> the master.
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Jason Sneed
Commercial Lending Officer
First National Bank and Trust
Message 70
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jason Sneed wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
>For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
>wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
>o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
>shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
>dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
>ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
>to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
>the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
>happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
>way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
>airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
>off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
>(exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
>all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
>happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
>last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
>did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
>should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
>since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>
>Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>
>
>Jason Sneed
>Commercial Lending Officer
>First National Bank and Trust
>http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>
Well, I suspect that you may have a worn idle cutoff valve, or an intake
leak, or both. The intake leak is easier to diagnose. Take a vacuum
cleaner that you can attach the hose to the output. Clean the vacuum
really good, and stuff the hose in the intake, and seal with a couple of
rags. Turn the vacuum on ans spray really soapy water all over the
intake system. Bubbles will tell you where the leaks are. 'Course this
works much better with the cowl off.
If no leaks are found, then you might try putting the throttle a little
way in and then moving the mixture to idle cut-off ..... and if it still
diesels, open up the throttle. That should create a really lean
condition and stop the dieseling.
If that doesn't work, then we have the carb. The carb is harder to
diagnose and I don't have any good way to test it. The option may be to
send it off for a rebuild.
Good luck,
Linn
>
>
>
>
Message 71
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jason Sneed wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
>For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
>wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
>o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
>shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
>dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
>ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
>to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
>the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
>happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
>way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
>airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
>off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
>(exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
>all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
>happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
>last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
>did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
>should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
>since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>
>Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>
>
>Jason Sneed
>Commercial Lending Officer
>First National Bank and Trust
>http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>
Well, I suspect that you may have a worn idle cutoff valve, or an intake
leak, or both. The intake leak is easier to diagnose. Take a vacuum
cleaner that you can attach the hose to the output. Clean the vacuum
really good, and stuff the hose in the intake, and seal with a couple of
rags. Turn the vacuum on ans spray really soapy water all over the
intake system. Bubbles will tell you where the leaks are. 'Course this
works much better with the cowl off.
If no leaks are found, then you might try putting the throttle a little
way in and then moving the mixture to idle cut-off ..... and if it still
diesels, open up the throttle. That should create a really lean
condition and stop the dieseling.
If that doesn't work, then we have the carb. The carb is harder to
diagnose and I don't have any good way to test it. The option may be to
send it off for a rebuild.
Good luck,
Linn
Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 72
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Scroggs" <rv4ross@charter.net>
The idle speed is a good answer but here is something else. Do you have a
primer?
If so, make sure it is locked in the off position and not allowing just
enough fuel to pass
into a couple of cylinders. It could be locked but still allowing fuel to
pass. Might want
to check it.
Ross Scroggs
Locust Grove, Ga.
RV4 #3911 Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Sneed" <n242ds@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
> since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>
> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>
>
> Jason Sneed
> Commercial Lending Officer
> First National Bank and Trust
> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>
>
Message 73
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
Thanks Ross... I have a boost pump that I just turn on until I get 4
GPH on the fuel flow gauge then turn it off and hit the started button.
Thanks,
Jason
On Mar 4, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Ross Scroggs wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Scroggs" <rv4ross@charter.net>
>
> The idle speed is a good answer but here is something else. Do you
> have a
> primer?
> If so, make sure it is locked in the off position and not allowing just
> enough fuel to pass
> into a couple of cylinders. It could be locked but still allowing
> fuel to
> pass. Might want
> to check it.
>
> Ross Scroggs
> Locust Grove, Ga.
> RV4 #3911 Wings
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Sneed" <n242ds@cox.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>>
>> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
>> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
>> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
>> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
>> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel
>> gets
>> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
>> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
>> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
>> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
>> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
>> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
>> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
>> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
>> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
>> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
>> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
>> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
>> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
>> since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>>
>> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>>
>>
>> Jason Sneed
>> Commercial Lending Officer
>> First National Bank and Trust
>> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Jason Sneed
Commercial Lending Officer
First National Bank and Trust
Message 74
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Jason,
Not being a fuel injection person I cannot supply precise touble shooting
information.
However, dieseling can only occur when fuel is allowed to continue to flow
into the combustion chambers even though you seemingly have shut it off.
This would indicate things such as an internal valve is not sealing as it
should, a sticking throttle staying open a bit might allow fuel to flow or
as suggested a primming circut could be involved.
Have you been watching the EGTs and CHTs for abnormal behavior.
If extra fuel is getting through the system throughout the normal engine
operation modes it might be promoting excess carbon buildup in the
cylinders. This also would be consistant with the kind of running on that
you describe.
A call to the maker of your injection system is in order.
I am inclined to suggest that you should not run this engine again until
some serious trouble shooting is done and satisfactory results are achived.
In serious cases internal engine damage due to dieseling is also quite
possible.
Let us know how it works out, good luck,
Jin in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Sneed" <n242ds@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
> since the avblend and I still have the problem.
>
> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
>
>
> Jason Sneed
> Commercial Lending Officer
> First National Bank and Trust
> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
>
>
Message 75
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help me stop my engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Jason, I want to reiterate what Terry said. Read the AFP manual and you'll
see that they even state (I forget where, but it's in there), that pulling
the mixture will still allow X fuel flow, and that the purge valve is the
way they encourage shutdowns.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> Jason,
>
> I have heard that this is the biggest reason for installing the purge
valve
> with an Airflow Performance fuel injection system. For some reason the
> mixture apparently doesn't always shut the fuel off enough to stop the
> engine. Pulling the purge valve diverts the fuel from the injectors to
the
> return line and the engine quits.
>
> Note that this is not from my own experience. I am still at the wiring
> stage, but my Superior XP-IO-360-B1B came from Bart with the purge valve
> already installed. A call to Airflow Performance ought to get you an
> authoritative answer.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A #80729 wiring
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
>
> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
> the master.
>
>
Message 76
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RSA Injection Basics, was (Help me stop my engine) . |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
I'll pre-emp this by saying I'm not trying to flame anyone here, I just
can't think of the politically correct words to type, and since I'm a "tell
it like it is" kind of guy, here you go!
OK....Time for a quick lesson on injection....Obviously more than a couple
people could use some basics on injection (really, I mean this helpfully,
not sarcastically).
#1) The RSA/AFP injection systems are pretty simple, not much to go wrong.
#2) The RSA/AFP injection system does NOT use a separate primer circuit at
all...see #3)
#3) The RSA/AFP injection system is a constant flow system, meaning that
(hopefully) anytime the mixture is not in ICO, fuel is flowing into the
intake ports if either the engine is running or the mixture is not in ICO.
Priming is accomplished by moving the mixture to rich, and turning on the
boost pump for a specified amount of time (seems different on each persons
Lyc), usually 4-8 seconds. These fuel systems run around 20-30psi, instead
of 2-4psi for the carb's.
#4) The AFP purge valve is usually installed to help starting, NOT stopping
a F.I. Lyc. The problem with the RSA type system that has the bare
Stainless Steel distribution lines above the cylinder, is that usually after
shutdown, the fuel remaining in distribution lines is boiled and ends up in
the intake ports, resulting in a "pseudo" flooded engine - more like just an
abundance of fuel/vapors. Since a typical FI system has the metered fuel
line running from the servo up to the spider on top of the engine routed
between cylinders #1 & #3, all of these components contribute to quick heat
soaking if fuel is not moving through them. The spider/flow divider has a
small ball/check valve installed in them to help with this phenomenon.
#5) The thought behind the purge valve is to allow an operator to circulate
fresh cool fuel to the flow divider before starting the engine and gettin
rid of all the vapor bubbles in the line to that point. At least that's the
claim, in real life, I've seen little benefit on heat soaked engine/hot day
combinations between my -360 w/o a purge valve and the guys that have them
installed. Without electronic ignition, they all can be a bear to start
when hot/hot.
#6) Using the purge valve to shutoff the engine is not a wise thing, you're
just "bandaiding" the real problem, which obviously is with the servo / ICO
itself.
#7) The Servo uses "blast tubes" to measure the air moving through the
servo. These only start working above a normal idle, as at normal idle, the
butterfly is almost completely close. Hence the Idle circuit builit into
the servo. This is an adjustable circuit which allows the operator to adjust
a flow of fuel relative to the throttle being at idle. Like I just said,
the idle mixture adjustment is hooked to the throttle, NOT the mixture, so
you adjust the fuel flow at idle accordingly.
Here's where I would start. Check the adjustment on the idle mixture arm,
it's the little square threaded portion with the spring keeper / star shaped
wheel in the center of it. Make sure that hasn't either moved a great deal
or even come disconnected. Make sure you are still getting a small rise in
RPM right before ICO. If not, then it's a prett good indication that the
idle mixture is out of adjustment.
Either way, I would start with the idle mixture adjustment. This can be
done with the engine idling and you can adjust it with the engine running.
WARNING -DO NOT DO THIS ALONE, make sure someone is in the cockpit holding
the breaks, and WARNING - WATCH THE PROP, always keep one hand holding onto
the engine mount. The smart thing to do is basically sit on the wheel with
the L/G between your legs to keep yourself from accidentally falling into
the prop. This is for a TD, don'e know about a nosewheel airplane. If
you're not comfortable working on a running engine, DON'T do it, get someone
who is experienced to do it. Too many accidents have happened that way!
The fact that you're having problems at slower idle would also point the the
above diagnosis. You should easily be able to get these things to lope
along at 550-650RPM.
When idling, do you get any backfiring, or is the exhaust puffing white or
black colored smoke?? Also indicates something amiss with the idle mixture
or as mentioned earlier, a possible induction leak, althought an induction
lead shouldn't have any bearing on the engine continuing to get fuel after
ICO.
OK, that's it for my rant. The idle mixture can be a finiky thing when out
of adjustment, so I'd start there. If no progress, then something else is
wrong. Last thing, check the mixture arm on the servo to make sure it has't
moved a notch or something like that - I've seen it happen! The servo's
should be good for at least 1500hrs, or engine TBO if taken care of and kept
in adjustment. Usually the rubber diaphrams wear out, and the throttle arm
bushings wear, but rarely to they just plain quit working.
Best of luck, keep us informed!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis (1 injected & 1 carb'd).
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jason Sneed
Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine
--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed <n242ds@cox.net>
For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and
wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a
o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I
shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term
dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets
ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture
to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and
the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started
happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only
way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the
airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is
off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage
(exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted)
all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this
happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but
last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I
did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that
should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed
since the avblend and I still have the problem.
Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line?
Jason Sneed
Commercial Lending Officer
First National Bank and Trust
http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|